Why Everyone Around Trump is Paranoid Now: Wolff

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 The knives are out for everyone. Everyone is paranoid about everyone else.

spk_0 And in the end, most paranoid about Donald Trump. Do I have his favor? Do I not have his favor?

spk_0 What is he thinking? All of these people are asking at any given moment what's in Trump's head.

spk_0 Michael Wolf, we are not in a podcast shutdown.

spk_0 I'm trying to imagine a world in which all of the podcasts shut down. There would be a silence

spk_0 over the planet. Would the silence be like the silence that the generals had listening to Pete

spk_0 Hegseth? I think that was its own particular unique silence, a silence of skepticism, horror,

spk_0 and revulsion. I really want us to unpack that speech when we recorded on Tuesday. We didn't have

spk_0 time to understand the true nature of it, but I think we've both listened to it in full now,

spk_0 and I really want to discuss the bit where he slurps his coffee and make it, I mean, such a bizarre

spk_0 moment. But first, I think we have to remind people where we are going. I have my waterproof

spk_0 galoshes and I have, I've sprayed myself within sector side. What have you done to prepare for our

spk_0 journey? And you're going to spill on? I'm not going to spill on today, actually. I thought,

spk_0 I'm my app sale. I thought, am I app sale? Where are we going though? I think it's worth reminding

spk_0 new people to our podcast and indeed, our familiar audience who we love. We are going inside Trump's

spk_0 head. And once again, I'll make the point that this is where everyone should go, but, but people

spk_0 don't. They really assume that Trump is a normal politician and you look at him and you can follow

spk_0 his, his, he should be judged on his actions and his policies, which is absolutely not the way

spk_0 to understand this man. And if you do it that way, you won't get it. And what you have to understand

spk_0 is that he is motivated by a whole range of things that have never, ever entered the political sphere.

spk_0 Well, angels and others may fear to tread there, but we are fully geared up for our twice weekly

spk_0 journey inside Donald Trump's head. Well, we should talk about Trump's arrangements syndrome,

spk_0 which would both be accused of having by Stephen Chang the White House press spokesperson. But you

spk_0 as someone who's spent, as you say, 10 years studying this man, you appear relatively normal.

spk_0 I don't know. I can barely remember what I was like before Donald Trump. And, and more and more,

spk_0 in which is a dangerous thing, none of us in this country can remember what we were like before

spk_0 Donald Trump, which is a kind of trauma. And I do think you, you made a very good point last

spk_0 week. And I keep hearing this point from people, which is, is this what an autocracy feels like,

spk_0 because I go out, I order my cappuccino, I get my cookie, I walk along the streets, everybody's

spk_0 out running, jogging, you know, friends call and say they're on a GLP one. Life seems very normal.

spk_0 And yet politically, we know it's anything but I think it really depends upon who you are.

spk_0 If you're an immigrant, if you're a government worker, I mean, all government workers now,

spk_0 but think of the hundreds of thousands of government workers who have lost their jobs.

spk_0 Before this, if you're an administrator at any number of universities, you can go down the ever

spk_0 growing list of people who have been directly affected by this. But that still leaves

spk_0 most of the country, which has not been directly affected. And so they kind of wait, I suppose.

spk_0 I mean, I think, I think, I think, you know, is this going to happen to me? What is going to happen?

spk_0 Well, and you see a lot of, you know, a lot of people running companies that are wanting to do

spk_0 M&A or they wanted to do something and they're terrified of putting their head above the radar

spk_0 in case they trigger someone in government. Totally. I mean, if you're in a, if actually, if you are,

spk_0 if you are a person in executive in a media company at this point, this is going to be Donald Trump

spk_0 and his reaction is going to be, I don't know, the third, fourth, fifth thing you think of. Maybe

spk_0 you know, I mean, I mean, Jimmy Kimmel, a, a, b, a, b, c, or the Disney Corporation, which owns

spk_0 a, b, c, at the least sign, the least sign that the, that the administration was, was, was,

spk_0 was taking an issue with Jimmy Kimmel, they folded. And then, conversely, as soon as the pushback

spk_0 and they folded again. So this is all going on in reaction to, to Donald Trump.

spk_0 So what are you hearing from the White House about how Donald Trump is approaching the shutdown?

spk_0 He's been going around and saying we've got to win the shutdown. So he has immediately turned it

spk_0 into a, a, a, a Trump style conflict. Winner lose. Who's going to come out on top? Who is going to

spk_0 appear to be the dominant guy? Who's, who's the alpha in this shutdown room? Chuck Schumer or

spk_0 Donald Trump, which is a, you know, which is a kind of scary idea if you're a Democrat?

spk_0 Go on, because you were saying that you felt that this was not the right moment for Chuck Schumer,

spk_0 that he's the administrator, he's a backroom guy. He likes to sort of do negotiations and get

spk_0 things done. And as you're always pointing out, Trump relishes conflict, wants nothing more than

spk_0 a bare knuckle. Right. And now he's got that. Yeah, I think you'll put it well. You don't need

spk_0 me then to say that. That's, that is, that is in some the situation. Trump is a, you know, is,

spk_0 is the, is the, is the fighter is the pugilist is, I mean, he doesn't really care. It is just about

spk_0 the battle. Chuck Schumer has not, you know, at, after a lifetime in politics is a,

spk_0 is a politician is a political figure. He's not, he's not a fighter. He's a negotiator. He's a

spk_0 backroom deal doer, which, which he may yet do and, and, and he, in his own mind, I think, is

spk_0 probably confused about his, what his role here is. And on one hand, he sees, okay, I got to get

spk_0 the best possible deal. I can. But on the other side, his role is just to stand up to Donald Trump.

spk_0 What is the problem with the Democratic Party? And it has nothing but problems. But a central

spk_0 problem is that, that the nation believes it's, it's, it's, it's, it's weak. That in a moment,

spk_0 in a moment of who is the dominant personality of words, just about, about the power equation,

spk_0 for better or worse. But that's the, the moment the Democratic Party has consistently failed to

spk_0 show up. Would it be fair to say it feels like there is a sense of inevitability that Trump may

spk_0 win this one? There's always a sense that Trump probably has the advantage because that's,

spk_0 he comes to battle, just to battle. Right. Right. And has an enormous capacity not to fold

spk_0 when other people would fold. Again, think of four criminal indictments. And he just, he just

spk_0 powered through endless bankruptcies. I mean, this is, this is his modus operandi through business,

spk_0 through politics, through life, right? Right. And so, you know, and, and also the fact that he is

spk_0 fundamentally not rational. And, and that's a, that's an incredible advantage to go into a fight.

spk_0 It's a kind of a, you will, you will do anything beyond what, what other more reasonable people would do.

spk_0 And already in the nature of this, of this, this shutdown, he is now, he is now threatening

spk_0 immeasurable pain to Democrats and Democratic interests. So he will use the full force of the

spk_0 government to defeat the Democrats, to squeeze them, to bring them to their knees. And that's a different kind of,

spk_0 that's, that's, that's different than, than typical shutdowns, which are,

spk_0 it's essentially, it's essentially, you're looking out to your constituencies and saying, yeah,

spk_0 well, I can't, how much pain can you take? Can, and, and, and, and eventually,

spk_0 both sides sense that the American people are, you know, are suffering for their, the level of

spk_0 services, government services, they're now being deprived of. And, and then the measure is, is,

spk_0 is that going to, who, who is this going to hurt more? And then there's a negotiation and,

spk_0 and, and a settlement. So Trump is taking this beyond that and saying, I still have the power of

spk_0 the United States government here, and I can specifically direct that against, against the

spk_0 interests of the Democratic Party. So I will hurt you. I will use my power to hurt you.

spk_0 Um, I mean, the New York Times had, had a, had a, had a story in which they called, yes, this is,

spk_0 this, this shutdown is different because of Trump, because Trump is a wild card. Now, what that

spk_0 means is, is, people are afraid of Trump, that he's managed to sell the fact that, um, and, and,

spk_0 he speaks in foreign policy, he speaks of this, he's, of, of being the, nobody, nobody knows

spk_0 what a crazy man will do. And that is part posture and part true that he's a crazy man.

spk_0 So do the Democrats have the metal, the wear with all to, um, to take the pain?

spk_0 It's also, I mean, I still find it difficult to understand how a shutdown can help the party

spk_0 that's got all three arms of government. I mean, this, you know, hundreds of thousands of people

spk_0 are now on furlough, all sorts of services denied to people. This feels so objectively

spk_0 dysfunctional. I have a friend staying from Europe this week and she cannot conceive of a

spk_0 government shutdown. I mean, this is not something that happens to well-functioning countries.

spk_0 And it's hard to see how this benefits Trump because, precisely because he has all the power,

spk_0 but then the other problem is, as you point out, is Chuck Schumer doesn't seem to be able to

spk_0 articulate why they're doing this and other than health care. Um, and as, as you suggested in our

spk_0 last podcast together, one, I certainly just make it about Epstein. Yeah, well, again, the Democrats

spk_0 are always defaulting to policy. Yeah, a normal, normal question. For good reasons, the logical

spk_0 thing would be to say what, what is the nature of government? It's the policies that they,

spk_0 that they enact. And the policies are what helps people or hurts people.

spk_0 And getting beyond that, which is to say, no, that that's not really true. It's actually something

spk_0 much larger that government should be about. The government should be about the message,

spk_0 the government should be about the meaning, the meaning of life, of what it is to be a,

spk_0 an American at this point in time. I mean, all of that kind of, kind of, those existential

spk_0 considerations are, are beyond, almost by definition, beyond bureaucrats. That's not the job of,

spk_0 of a, of a, of a bureaucrat. Right. And I think that they're always in that, in that, that position.

spk_0 I mean, I had, I had dinner this summer with a, with a governor of a, of a swing state who's,

spk_0 who appears to want to run for president of a Democrat, very, um, wholly reasonable, um, nice guy,

spk_0 um, who spoke at every, this was small dinner with, with, you know, eight or so people talking

spk_0 about and asking questions. And to every question he responded with a policy paragraph.

spk_0 And, um, yeah, and, and I, isn't it because the theater of politics has changed. We're now playing

spk_0 it out on social media. It was always played out on television where Trump is very skilled,

spk_0 but it's now playing out on, as you say, truth, truth, social of which there is an audience of one,

spk_0 but it gets amplified across every other social media platform. And policy paragraphs don't work

spk_0 on social media. Michael, hold just for a second while we take these messages. And I'm back with

spk_0 Michael Wolfe and we're both inside Trump's head. Well, I, I, I don't think that they work in,

spk_0 in, in, in, broadly in, in, in, an emotional environment where people actually want other answers,

spk_0 other examples, other, um, uh, you know, and other reasons to, to believe in this American enterprise.

spk_0 Uh, and, and Trump has managed, yes, Trump, Trump is a, is a, is a performer. Um, and Trump is also,

spk_0 also has managed to make dominance. Who is stronger, the fundamental issue, who can take more pain.

spk_0 And Trump can take the pain, the fact that he went through this campaign with these indictments,

spk_0 hanging over his head is still confounding to oceans. Yeah, most people would have gotten

spk_0 ulcer or cancer over just the stress of it. All right. So Donald Trump is striding around

spk_0 the White House and inspecting the construction site on the 90,000 square foot ballroom that he's

spk_0 building, which will dwarf the actual White House, uh, itself. Another man who was talking about

spk_0 winning was Pete Higgseth lecturing the generals on Tuesday. And I think it's a constant,

spk_0 and a constant reasonable and obvious question, who is the most ridiculous person in the Trump cabinet?

spk_0 You know, I mean, Kennedy, Higgseth, Bondy, Howard, Lutnik of all people.

spk_0 Kristie Nome. Tulsi Gabbard never let us forget Kristie Nome. Yes. Linda McMahon.

spk_0 Oh, Linda McMahon. But clearly this week, the winner is Pete Higgseth for most ridiculous award.

spk_0 I mean, it just, it just to see him in front of us, the idea of an alcohol like weekend television

spk_0 show co-host, not even solo host co-host becoming the Secretary of Defense is absurd. But then

spk_0 on top of that, to having this guy lecture a room full of one to four star generals of about

spk_0 what makes a real fighting man. And as you say in the midst of this, taking his slurp of coffee

spk_0 is, is beyond, um, beyond what would even be the word.

spk_0 Power day. I mean, credulity. Right. You can't even believe this is happening. How has this come to

spk_0 past in this whole audience of of generals and and and admirals are are are that's that is what is

spk_0 on their face. How has this come to happen? And then I suppose in what does this mean? I mean,

spk_0 these are these are these are the two big questions of the week. I mean, there's so much to unpack

spk_0 in this speech. I mean, not least the silence of it. You know that phrase silence is deafening,

spk_0 which I'd never fully appreciated until watching them respond, which was the was know response.

spk_0 And it was as if they were afraid to respond, because I'm sure their terrified cameras are kind

spk_0 of looking for any kind of eye roll at all. But also the sheer criticism of them that he was just

spk_0 laying into how the military had been run by previous presidents. Well, just also just step back

spk_0 a second, because you know, I mean, they are they have are find themselves are trapped in the

spk_0 in the middle of what is obviously a political event with all the training of military training

spk_0 being that we do not engage in politics. And here he was making a clearly very political speech.

spk_0 The meaning of this of of this speech was actually kind of humiliation. You've been all called

spk_0 on the carpet here. We are this alcoholic former weekend television co-host is the boss now.

spk_0 I mean, I think we should remind people too. Let's not forget the extraordinary moment where

spk_0 it became clear that he had leaked classified details of a live military action on WhatsApp. I mean,

spk_0 it was Mike Walz, the National Security Advisor who actually technically did it. But there was

spk_0 Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, giving away literally live details of action. I mean,

spk_0 it was a strange embarrassing moment and there he is lecturing these generals. Whenever you speak

spk_0 to anybody from from who works at the Pentagon, I mean, you know, it's a kind of oh my god response.

spk_0 I mean, I you know, the military has never seen anything like this. I I I I truly believe. And

spk_0 and it's really another aspect of this. I mean, it's the Trump aspect of this. Trump's inability

spk_0 to understand or appreciate the the an institutional culture. From Trump's point of view,

spk_0 some military calls it my military. And so it's like, okay, these people these people work for me.

spk_0 They're here to do what I want them to do. And they're here to be useful to me.

spk_0 This is their so this is seen beyond duty to God and country. This is duty to Donald Trump,

spk_0 which is the only way he sees things. I mean, I actually believe that he has an and cognitive

spk_0 inability to grasp this in a more to have him a more generalized idea of of of greater purpose.

spk_0 Well, what's interesting too. And we've written at the Daily Beast frequently about this is that

spk_0 Pete Hegseth has become increasingly paranoid. He's paranoid about people leaking things. He's

spk_0 been firing people. He's now saying that he's going to do random. What what is it called

spk_0 truth or lie tests when you put someone under a test to see whether or not they're lying. They're

spk_0 going to lie detect it. Yeah, lie detector. I'm still feeling what they call break through pain

spk_0 from my recent hip surgery. So I had a flash of it there as I was grasping for the idea of a lie

spk_0 detector test. But but everything we're hearing out of the Pentagon is that Pete is feeling

spk_0 increasingly paranoid that people are circling his job and that the Pentagon have got to

spk_0 info him. I know doubt the Pentagon has it in for him, but that's also the way everybody around

spk_0 Donald Trump feels. I mean, the knives the knives are all are out for everyone. Everyone is

spk_0 paranoid about everyone else. And and in the end, most paranoid about Donald Trump. Do I have

spk_0 his favor? Do I not have his favor? What is he thinking? All of these people are asking at any given

spk_0 moment what's in Trump's head. Well, and clearly, as you're always saying, it's about an audience

spk_0 of one. It was an audience of one that he was was talking to on Tuesday, despite the fact he gathered

spk_0 everybody there. So we have the the huge American flag behind him, which is a reference to the general

spk_0 patent movie that Trump likes so much. There are many presidents who have liked that movie. That

spk_0 was a favorite of Nixon's too. Okay. And and and actually it's a great movie. It's a riveting scene.

spk_0 When was the last time you saw this? I watched this movie frequently. It's a favorite of mine.

spk_0 I've never watched this movie and I will I was planning actually to watch it over the weekend.

spk_0 And I guess it's better that he had that up there than fatal attraction, which would be less of a

spk_0 although goodness knows Pete Hegg's ethos had a very dramatic domestic life, you know, necessitating

spk_0 a letter from his mother telling him that he was an abuser of women, which for a mother to write her

spk_0 son, I think was a devastating moment, one hopes for him. So he's a man with a very complicated

spk_0 background, he was accused as we know of sexual assault, which is why certain Joni Ernst, US

spk_0 senators were apprehensive about him, but nevertheless he got through the Senate confirmation process

spk_0 with a deciding vote by JD Vance. I thought that this was a speech that looking at some of the

spk_0 comments on YouTube, he was putting out there to be rousing and this was his bid to be taken seriously

spk_0 as a potential presidential candidate. I think everybody around Trump knows that he's not well

spk_0 and they see his cancels, they see the fact that he's not quite as robust as he was.

spk_0 They see the manic tweets at two in the morning on truth social and they're beginning to position

spk_0 themselves and JD Vance obviously taking over Charlie Kirk's podcast didn't have the same

spk_0 impacts that I think Pete Hegg's at addressing the military did. Let's take another break, Joanna.

spk_0 And Michael Wolfenay, a back inside Trump's head. It's hard to fully appreciate this because it is a,

spk_0 it's not a contiguous second term, but this is Trump is a second term president, things,

spk_0 things actually go wrong for almost everyone in a second term. They have not yet started to go

spk_0 wrong. Trump is is and this is worth spending some some time on he is, he has really buck the

spk_0 trend so far of a second term presidency. At the same time, it is a second term presidency. It

spk_0 will come to an end. He is a he is formally a lame duck. He cannot run again. So despite Steve

spk_0 Bannon delivering Bannon baloney about a third term, there's not going to be a third term.

spk_0 And somebody else is going to gradually or all at once emerge as the Republican standard bearer.

spk_0 And so it's open season. Who's going to do this? Pete Hegg's it. Bobby Kennedy.

spk_0 Oh, it's JD Vance. I mean, it is it's kind of, you know, we can come back to the beginning of

spk_0 this show where we talked about the ridiculousness of the people around Trump. But one of these

spk_0 ridiculous people will probably emerge as the next ridiculous presidential candidate. And

spk_0 if history is any less than ridiculousness is a is a political plus.

spk_0 Well, I did think there was some extraordinary moments in his speech, not least that he kept saying

spk_0 this is brought to you by the warrior ethos. And then he made a reference to his book. I wish I had

spk_0 been in the room because when he made a reference to his book, which he sort of threw out there that

spk_0 his book about the warrior, it normally in a room, especially if the room was supportive of you,

spk_0 there would be a sort of tittering of laughter and a lot of people would have read the book. I

spk_0 didn't get the sense that people understood the book was by him. It was in theory a self-deprecating

spk_0 joke, but in fact, there was zero response, at least watching it as it was televised. And then

spk_0 as racist. And this is very clearly aimed at a black people. A lot of people reached out and said,

spk_0 well, Sikhs are mighty warriors and they grow their hair. And then there was zero mention of the

spk_0 thing that I find the most depressing in terms of someone's appearance, which is tattoos. I mean,

spk_0 he is smothered in tattoos in his little suits that are all too small for him. And he's got those

spk_0 strange arms as to sew jacks that he can't put them flat against his sides. So they slightly

spk_0 bounce up as he walks around and his pants were too small. Let me return to tattoos because one of

spk_0 my favorite stories, among the many favorite stories of the of the campaign, was a moment in which

spk_0 at a particular rally, Trump was was approached by a young man with a tattoo on his face on his far

spk_0 head. And it was a young man who was very very Trump-y young man. And and Trump took in the

spk_0 flattery and adulation of this man's insistence that he was either greatest Trump supporter at

spk_0 all time, but Trump couldn't try it was clearly trying not to focus on the tattoo. But then

spk_0 then finally interrupted this this this young man and said, I just want how much would it cost

spk_0 to get that tattoo removed? Of course, because he's not going to have someone with a facial tattoo.

spk_0 I mean, to be fair, I think most bosses will have people with a with a facial tattoo, but the

spk_0 PXF is smothered in them even as he crams himself into his little blue suit which he's trying to

spk_0 make his visual his visual identifier, I think. Anyway, I found it extraordinary and patronizing

spk_0 of, as you say, these one-to-four star generals who spent their life dedicated to this country,

spk_0 running incredibly complex maneuvers and machinery, I also thought that the way PXF talked about

spk_0 warfare was sort of dating back to the Second World War. We know that current warfare is now cyber

spk_0 warfare and it's largely drones. The idea that you're going to be ripping someone apart limb from

spk_0 limb, which is really what he was getting at, felt much more GI Joe than modern warfare of the 21st century.

spk_0 Well, no, I mean, I think in one of the questions to come out of this is,

spk_0 is how do these guys react to this? What do they do? I mean, these guys meaning the top brass of

spk_0 United States military, and I'm not sure they know the answer to this. I suspect that they know

spk_0 that this is that they're in a difficult and probably impossible position and they're just

spk_0 holding their breath and saying, this too shall pass, but I don't know and I don't know if it

spk_0 will pass. Well, and there was also the moment where he said, you know, those of you who aren't

spk_0 bought on board for this do the honorable thing you should resign. I mean, I felt that there was a

spk_0 very threatening, undercurrent coming from him. No, no, the message is again, this is Donald

spk_0 Trump's military, my military, and you have to put everything else you have learned about

spk_0 God in country aside and accept that this is the circumstances that you now work under. You work

spk_0 for your entire focus, your raison d'etre is to be carried out Donald Trump's wishes.

spk_0 Yeah, I mean undoubtedly, and also I was trying to figure out how do they talk about this with

spk_0 each other? I mean, you could almost see them sort of looking at their neighbours and wondering,

spk_0 you know, you can't put anything obviously on social media. Nobody writes letters anymore,

spk_0 do you call people? How do you talk about it? I'm sure they don't know. This is again an impossible

spk_0 situation. So I mean, I think that they're just stuck holding their breath and again saying,

spk_0 this too shall pass, which it may not. Well, we're not going to pass, Michael. We're going to keep

spk_0 traipsing around Trump's head, finding odd crannies and nukes with strange surprises in them.

spk_0 So I will see you next Tuesday. And who knows if we'll still be in a shutdown?

spk_0 Will we be in the studio next Tuesday? I hope to make it into the studio to hobble into the studio.

spk_0 And I tell you what I did want to do. I wanted to thank people for their comments and there were

spk_0 various comments I wanted to read out, actually. I'm going to do some quick fires at you.

spk_0 Suzanne Daniel wanted to know what is going into Trump's library? What will be in his library?

spk_0 Erides and teacups. There's teacups and sources that spin you round.

spk_0 Can this is a good question? Can Trump build a White House ballroom without congressional

spk_0 approval and planning and could a future president demolish it and could they bring back the

spk_0 Rose Garden, Jackie Kennedy's beloved Rose Garden that of course he's paved over and put Mar-a-Lago

spk_0 and Brela's on. Well, apparently he can because he is. So is that because he's raising the money

spk_0 himself? I mean, he says he's paying for it himself, but in fact, companies have stepped forward

spk_0 to pay for it. Yes, but I assume and I mean, traditionally, presidents have had wide discretion

spk_0 over the White House. I think that there are some restraints and some funding issues, but

spk_0 but again, as I say, apparently he can do this because he is. And yes, I think that somebody,

spk_0 a future president could come back and restore the Rose Garden. I mean, I think the point of the

spk_0 ballroom is to make it so large that it would be impossible to undo and just to make Richard Nixon

spk_0 pave the filled in the swimming pool and it has remained filled in. Which is too bad because Trump

spk_0 looks like he could do with a bit of exercise. He could have a couple of morning laps, actually.

spk_0 Well, there's a site. Oh, there's a site, Trump in a speed, I mean. Yes.

spk_0 All right, so here's a question. Do you think that Dr. Os was Jeffrey Epstein's doctor?

spk_0 Might he be on the list? He wasn't Jeffrey Epstein's doctor. Okay, he wasn't Jeffrey Epstein's

spk_0 doctor. Okay, well, Jeffrey Epstein had a lot of doctors and if you called him and asked him,

spk_0 he would always have a doctor he could send you to. Okay, a doctor and a lawyer, I think. You once

spk_0 said he had 75 lawyers. Yes, he did 75 lawyers. And thank you to all of those who commented that you

spk_0 hope I get well soon, particularly Robin, Joanna, please take care of your recovery. I am doing my best.

spk_0 I've got lots of ice packs going on. We'll come back to more comments. We've got a lot of comments from

spk_0 listeners and viewers on Spotify. So we will come back to those on Tuesday. Michael, there's

spk_0 a shutdown, but we won't shut down. We will be back on Tuesday to see if the government has

spk_0 has started up again. Yeah, who knows, but I think what we do know is we can't quite predict what

spk_0 will have happened by then. We're living in an age of deep uncertainty. Joanna, I will see you very

spk_0 soon. Okay, Michael, go well. If you have been thank you for joining us, don't forget to subscribe

spk_0 to our podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. And please join the Daily Beast community on YouTube.

spk_0 Leave us a comment and don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast too, where we will keep you

spk_0 up to date with the moment-by-moment news of the shutdown and the crazy that's going on in DC.

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Why Everyone Around Trump is Paranoid Now: Wolff

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