Robert Duncan McNeill Interview + Star Trek News Roundup

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 This is Anthony Pasco.

spk_0 And this is L'Orealster and this is the All Access Star Trek podcast.

spk_0 This week we have an interview I did as a fundraiser for the Star Trek family

spk_0 with Robert Duncan McNeil, who I've wanted to talk to in depth for a long time.

spk_0 But let's do some news first and start with the Rose Parade float, which we knew that we were

spk_0 getting when we founded on Star Trek Day that there was going to be a Star Trek float

spk_0 at the Rose Parade for the Rose Bowl. But now they have a render of what the float's going to look

spk_0 like. When I was surprised, happily surprised was it's basically mostly the original series.

spk_0 Because when they first announced this, even though it was the 60th year, they said it's going

spk_0 to be to promote Academy. And there's kind of, it's kind of like a original series themed float

spk_0 with this like Academy section tacked on to it. If you look closely. So there's a big enterprise

spk_0 and then kind of also the USS, I keep on forgetting the name of the ship in the Academy show.

spk_0 Oh, I already forgot. It's like it's the name of a Greek god, I think, like a Lissie's or

spk_0 something like that. Is it a Fina? It might be. I know. I'm sure someone out there remembers.

spk_0 And it's yelling at their app right now. But they'll be people on it. I think I assume it's

spk_0 just kind of weight or slash actors from the LA area. I know they are going to have some real people.

spk_0 They said. So I, yes, Star Trek's the labs to be announced, who will be on the bridge.

spk_0 There's a part of it that looks like the original series bridge. And that's where they will be.

spk_0 There's also, there's also part of it that looks like Vaska's rocks, which I love. Yes.

spk_0 And something called interactive transporters. Well, there's two transporter platforms.

spk_0 And I think the guy goes from one to the other. And either they do either there's a part or the

spk_0 float where he crawls under me or they hired twins. I was going to say twins or he fades into the flowers

spk_0 like Homer and the bushes and then comes back. But it's cool. You know, the roast sprays big deal.

spk_0 It's on TV. And this is the, you know, we don't know how much, you know, what's going to happen

spk_0 during the 60th. They've got some other little things planned out, but it could be a big year for Star Trek.

spk_0 Yeah, I think they'll hope. Yeah. I mean, who knows the businesses such is so confusing right now. But I,

spk_0 I think originally they had planned to do a lot of stuff. So we'll see.

spk_0 So let's talk a little bit about strange new worlds. This is from your New Jersey stuff.

spk_0 You talked to Celia. Well, talked to you at the stage. I stood in the darkness many feet away

spk_0 at a microphone where she couldn't see my face. So I don't know if you call that talking to someone.

spk_0 But I asked questions and it's so that a lot of other people. How's that?

spk_0 But you asked a good question and excellent question. That's what she said. Exactly.

spk_0 I don't mean that in a Michael Scott way. I mean, like that is actually what she for real said.

spk_0 Because Ethan Peck has talked about how he's going to kind of become more nemoish as we get into

spk_0 season four and season five, especially, which they're shooting right now. And she said, yeah,

spk_0 she they talk about it about this idea that they're both these iconic characters.

spk_0 And they're heading towards the original series and they're both going to do it. But she feels like

spk_0 she's got more flexibility, I guess, is what she said. Well, she does. She does because her character

spk_0 was so underutilized. And that is what she said. Like she can get to where she is, but also she

spk_0 has more freedom. And she likes to torment Ethan about that, I think, but like your spark and I

spk_0 move her. That's what she says to him. But yes, she can do more because with spark, there's so much

spk_0 we already know and we saw him develop and with her, you know, in the movie, she didn't do a whole,

spk_0 I don't think the fan dance is anything anyone's excited about. So she had moments, but she deserved

spk_0 more. Yeah, I think, you know, her is a better character on the on Straitsy worlds than she was

spk_0 on the original series. I mean, she was great on the original series, but it's just it's a modern

spk_0 show and all the female characters are more fleshed out. Certainly chapel, especially.

spk_0 The chapel, especially, but on the original series, like it's in the right, there isn't much in the

spk_0 writing. And I think that if you look at what she did, she gave her, Michelle Nichols gave

spk_0 her a lot of moments that really did become, you know, you see her smiling, reacting. I feel like

spk_0 maybe because of her, they wrote more scenes where she's like, she's always sort of sidelining

spk_0 up to somebody on the bridge to talk to them like when Scotties and command, she has great

spk_0 conversations with him. And yeah, Michelle did everything she could with what they gave her.

spk_0 Celia talks about in a shell in such great reverence. And in fact, she had that funny bit about how

spk_0 she didn't know what role she was auditioning for. They gave her a fake name.

spk_0 Yaboa, they kept saying, Yaboa. And her mom was a big Trekkie. He's like, are you sure it's not

spk_0 her? She's like, no, of course not. And she said she's glad they didn't tell her because she would

spk_0 have gotten it would have gotten her head and she could have blown the audition. So I thought

spk_0 that was funny. Yeah, but I like the part where there's just this whole thing where her mom is

spk_0 saying like, no, I think it's her. And she's saying, no, no, no, but she's the communications officer

spk_0 on the bridge. And her name is Yaboa. Well, you never know, you know, it's Captain Pike.

spk_0 She wants to do a thing that Michelle is famous for, which is sing beyond an Antares. I don't

spk_0 know if they'll give her that chance, but that would be kind of fun. We saw that twice on the

spk_0 original series. Yeah. A favor to hers. You know, so I think a her has been a success on the show.

spk_0 I see very little people sniping about the her there's a lot to snip about about the show.

spk_0 But I haven't really seen that about her really. No, and I have gotten, you know,

spk_0 done my own sniping and I don't think I've ever had any issues with her. I think she does a great

spk_0 job and she's taking the character to new heights. And I end the way they're writing her also

spk_0 doesn't make me mad, which is nice. Our old friend Marina Sertis kind put herself back in the news.

spk_0 She was answering a question that she says she gets a lot, which she probably does, which is,

spk_0 will we ever see you in Star Trek again? And she started off by saying we're never going to see

spk_0 all of the next gen people again. That's just that was done in in Picard season three and that was

spk_0 that, but she seems very keen actually. I was kind of surprised. She's like, but I'll do it. You

spk_0 know, I'm up for it. You should, you know, and she kind of asked her followers on Instagram to kind

spk_0 of put her out there. So she seems more interested than I, I'm surprised how interested she seems to be,

spk_0 but you know, then again, she's an actress and, you know, what did you think of that? Yeah, I mean,

spk_0 because she did start off by saying that she thought the chance for another reunion has come

spk_0 and gone. So being blunt as usual, but she does want to do it. And look, she did. She recently,

spk_0 I guess launched or relaunched her Instagram. And she's answering fan questions. And I think she's

spk_0 trying to make nice, she has a reputation for being difficult as you've experienced personally.

spk_0 I'm not alone, but yes. And I think it's possible that she's recognizing the value of changing

spk_0 her image. Because she's on there a lot answering fans questions. So, and I think she would like to

spk_0 return to it. And I think she realizes that fans still appreciate her. She did imply that there

spk_0 was a moment after Picard season three. And Patrick Stewart talked about this as well after

spk_0 he filmed season three of how he thought there was a chance for another, you know, next-gen movie.

spk_0 But I think she's right that that's come and gone. I just don't see that ever happening.

spk_0 Yeah, I think there was a little momentum for something in too much time past.

spk_0 Yeah. There's some more stuff from New Jersey. It's fun stuff to check out on the site.

spk_0 There was, it's kind of funny, like two vixes back in the news. There's like a, there's a this

spk_0 Voyager game out there called Star Trek Voyager Across the Unknown. They released a new gameplay video

spk_0 of that. And the thing that we glondon do, but some other sites did is it shows you how you can

spk_0 base you, you could basically you are Janeway and you could make decisions like she did,

spk_0 including saving two vix spare and I don't know what happens to

spk_0 Neelix and two Valky if you make that choice. But yeah, but I'm guessing that they're not, yeah,

spk_0 because you could, I mean, you there, there's certain like if you look at how they're presenting the

spk_0 game, there's guest stars that appeared on the show for one episode that you can add them to your

spk_0 crew. So you could really make a lot of changes along your way home. But it's funny how, you know,

spk_0 have a lot of sites, including ours that glondon to this, you could spare two vix thing in this new

spk_0 game coming out probably next year. And, you know, and the subject of two vix came up in in New Jersey.

spk_0 It comes up at every convention where they're voyage of people. Yeah. So we did an article on that

spk_0 both Mulgrew and Tim Ruff talked about it. Yes. I mean, I just liked what Kate Mulgrew said because

spk_0 she said easy choice. Had to make it look tough, but easy, easy.

spk_0 What's the meme if I had a gun with two bullets, I'd shoot them twice or something. Yeah,

spk_0 like a few cut them, whatever, and two vix I'd kill two vix twice.

spk_0 There's some other merch stuff that's pretty interesting. I'm always a fan of when a we get a new

spk_0 licensee and we did get one, which is Magic the Gathering, which everyone's probably heard of.

spk_0 It's a collectible card game, bent out decades. Forever. Yeah. Yeah. Now, there's Ben Star Trek

spk_0 collectible card games, but this is that they're doing a whole bunch of licensed sets in 2026.

spk_0 And the last one of the year will be Star Trek. And it's going to have cards from across.

spk_0 It's going to have next-gen stuff. You can have the Enterprise. You can have Gauron.

spk_0 But there'll be Stranger Dude World stuff. So I just think it's fun.

spk_0 Yeah. They've got original, they've got Kirk from the original series. And they're saying

spk_0 eventually it'll include Starfleet Academy even. That's fun. Did you ever play that game, Magic the Gathering?

spk_0 I did once. I had a friend who was really into it. And I still have a deck somewhere around.

spk_0 I kind of got it. But I realized the amount of commitment that it would take to get really into it,

spk_0 I just didn't have. But I think it's fun. And maybe I'll try it again. That the new Star Trek

spk_0 stuff comes out. Sure. There are also some ships coming out. Fan home is bringing back a bunch of

spk_0 the Eagle Moss models. And they're bringing some to New York Comic Con. Yeah. I mean,

spk_0 what's cool. So Fan Home took over from Eagle Moss. Eagle Moss went out a business a couple years

spk_0 ago, three years ago, I think. And they were Star Trek's most prolific licensee for many years,

spk_0 make every month they released a new ship. And they went out of business overnight. It seemed

spk_0 like right? Yeah. It was pretty brutal. And some of their stuff was available from this other

spk_0 retailer like old stock. But that's all done. And when Fan Home took over the license, they first

spk_0 were making ships that Eagle Moss never made from all the new streaming shows. And they're still

spk_0 doing that. They release a new ship every month. But now they're going to start releasing some of

spk_0 classics, I guess. And all in the larger size, the XL size. And the first one is of course the

spk_0 original Enterprise 1701. But the second one is actually the Cerritos, which was very popular

spk_0 when Eagle Moss did that. And you could buy either of them at New York Comic Con, which Lori's

spk_0 going to next weekend. And but then they'll be available online and they're going to do a total

spk_0 of 20 ships. So I think that's fun. I think that's great for collectors. Because some of those go

spk_0 for a ton of money on eBay, some of those Eagle Moss ships, you can't get anymore. So if you want to

spk_0 sell one and make some money, now's the time to do it. Because now there's going to be new ones

spk_0 out there. And they're also with their booth at Comic Con. They are going to have a little

spk_0 prodigy thing. So they're going to have the Hagenman brothers and Bonnie Gordon and Brett Gray

spk_0 signing Voyager A ships. That's kind of cool. I think that's on the Friday, which I'm not going to

spk_0 be there on Friday, sadly. Now the Voyager A is from their just regular line of start fleet

spk_0 starship collection, which is something Eagle Moss never released. But they released one, I think

spk_0 just a couple months ago. And now you could now you could get it signed, which is pretty cool.

spk_0 All right. Well, there's some other stuff on the site. We just want to point to there's more.

spk_0 I mean, it's mostly from the podcast, but some more from my assessment about Star Trek United,

spk_0 his idea for Scott baccala. We're still doing our weekly Danish just still doing our weekly

spk_0 reviews of the Star Trek Con podcast. Yeah. Episode four is a, you know, I just want to say if

spk_0 you're not listening, listen, yes, it enhances your understanding of I would say more of

spk_0 Ratth of Con than of Spacey, but both really, you know, we're going to have more than that as the

spk_0 series wraps up, but you're already listening to a podcast. So you know how to do it, right?

spk_0 Hey, we have that obstacle spin over. One thing I'll say is I've been listening to it when I go

spk_0 for walks and it is quite a thing to be listening to while you're strolling around because you hear a

spk_0 lot of sounds around you beside you, behind you and then you turn around and you're like, oh,

spk_0 it's the podcast. It's not actually somebody near me. Spooky, you're not worried about Sadie

spk_0 Eels crawling up your leg. I am a little bit worried. We should all be worried about Sadie Eels.

spk_0 So the last couple of things we had from Vegas, which seems forever ago, were Brandon Braga things.

spk_0 The big one, we got a ton of interest in this one, was Braga talking about how he misses the old days

spk_0 of long seasons and he says he wishes, you know, like they used to do 26 a year on Voyager.

spk_0 This was during the Voyager reunion panel and he said he hopes that Star Trek gets back to that

spk_0 and the frequency, you know, instead of these long gaps. The gaps are a huge and it's obviously not

spk_0 just Star Trek. It's a lot of shows. Yeah. But the gaps are a big problem and not having a lot of

spk_0 episodes, you know, there's been a lot of talk about strange New Worlds after season three because

spk_0 a lot of people were disappointed in it and they felt like some of those, I'm not going to say big

spk_0 storms. Some of the choices that they made would have felt different in a 26 episode season than a 10

spk_0 episode season. Right. You waited two years for 10 episodes and, you know, and maybe up to half of

spk_0 them, you know, certainly a handful felt like kind of mid-season stupid model episodes from the old days

spk_0 that were easier to dismiss. And Braga immediately got the irony. He's like, oh, by the way,

spk_0 I'm just as bad because I work on the Orville and which you may feel has been canceled, but technically

spk_0 it hasn't. And we're going to make another season, hopefully. And their last season was like a huge

spk_0 time gap. And now there's an even bigger time gap. And their last season was I think 10 episodes too.

spk_0 So, you know, he mentioned how procedurals do these. A lot of Star Trek fans want to get back to

spk_0 20-something episodes a year. I just don't see that happening ever. I don't see that happening because

spk_0 of how much they spend per episode. But I also think that there is some middle ground. I mean,

spk_0 I think one thing, yes, we definitely need a shorter gap between seasons. But I think, you know,

spk_0 everyone talks about the pit, which is like 15 episodes. Maybe, I think, and that that seems to work.

spk_0 So there is maybe there is a happy meeting because with the 26, people get just burnt out. And they

spk_0 do end up some of the look, some of those filler scripts from 90s track turned out great. And we

spk_0 really love them. And some of them are just ridiculous and forgettable. Okay. So we've established that

spk_0 I've never watched the pit and never will because it's a medical show. But I'm going to assume like

spk_0 all medical shows 99% of the scenes are on standing sets of the hospital. Yes.

spk_0 So they're essentially all bottle shows. And how many CGI shots does the pit need? So yeah, I

spk_0 would imagine if Star Trek had no CGI shots and all bottle episodes, they could do it. Because

spk_0 it takes them, as I've said before, it takes them almost as long to shoot 10 episodes as it did

spk_0 shoot 26. Yes. And they're spending more on the 10. Yeah, there might be a way to tighten it up.

spk_0 I think it's more important for them to minimize the gaps. I think 10 is fine if you do 10 every year.

spk_0 And some of the shows did like Mike, you know, with lower decks, even though that's animated,

spk_0 like pretty much every August, they released 10 episodes almost consistently. I think there was

spk_0 a little bit of slippage in there. And the strikes obviously had an impact. But for the most part,

spk_0 it was 10 a year almost always at the same time. Yeah, that still feels a little skimpy to me,

spk_0 but it's better than every few years. That's the difficulty with streaming, of course, is

spk_0 do you have enough faith in a show? And I think often you get second season renewals early

spk_0 when shows haven't even aired yet. But it's harder and harder when you get into seasons 3, 4, 5,

spk_0 4, these streaming companies to have that faith. They want to see the numbers first. And the problem

spk_0 is as soon as you put that into the thing, then you're guaranteed to be more than a year. Right.

spk_0 Because you have to wait and see. Yeah. And that's that look. And that also sucks for all the people

spk_0 working on it. The actors and crew because then they're, you know, I want to come back and do

spk_0 season two, but it's not going to happen for a year and a half. Right. So and everybody's got to

spk_0 take other work unless their contract stops them from doing it. Although ironically, it increases

spk_0 the cost of the shows because as I understand it, they are not breaking down those sets between

spk_0 seasons. So you have standing set sitting, taking up three, four, five stages in Toronto,

spk_0 just sitting there for a year. Sometimes there's another show shooting at the same time. And they

spk_0 would come over and use the sets for this or that. But for the most part, they're just sitting there.

spk_0 Yeah. And that's that's a lot of money. You know, maybe that's one of the reasons why they

spk_0 jumped on season two of Academy. I mean, they literally have the biggest stage in North America.

spk_0 That thing costs a ton of money to make and to rent. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons

spk_0 as we've talked about before. But it does make sense. I mean, but then you also look, you also don't

spk_0 want to shoot things. I still think by shooting Picard back to back, which they did have to do

spk_0 for a bunch of practical reasons, it compromised the show. Yeah. The irony is it fucked up season two

spk_0 more than it fucked up season three. Yeah. And yeah. Well, if something deserved to get a little

spk_0 fucked up, it was season two. Well, but there was some like a bridge. Now, I can't remember what it was,

spk_0 but there was a different, better idea for season two. And I think we wrote about it once on the

spk_0 site. I just can't remember what it was. Yeah. But one of the reasons for season two is that I

spk_0 think the studio said, no, to plan a and they just switched to plan B and they didn't have enough

spk_0 time to make it to write and make it. So it was. And I think it was also the studio that dictated

spk_0 that they had to spend so much time in 2025, right? Like yeah. And that was shot at the height of COVID.

spk_0 Yes. Season two was plagued for many reasons. But got it. It really started strong. I remember

spk_0 being really excited with the first first two episodes are pretty good. And then it just kind of,

spk_0 anyway, that's a whole lot. We'll have to do our look back later. We should do it. We should do

spk_0 it. Like it's season two episode. Well, we did. We did 10 of them. But let's say we could do

spk_0 in the whole season. That's just a crazy rant. Just roll in different people complaining about it.

spk_0 And we also put up a separate thing from Braga where he, but it was it's hard to convey this if

spk_0 you weren't there at the event. But it was really nice watching him directly talk to the different

spk_0 actors on stage about his favorite episode of them, you know, and their character. And people

spk_0 were asking why didn't he do one for Kessice? Because Jennifer lean wasn't there for many reasons.

spk_0 You know, and and but everyone else was there. And he had some really thoughtful, although almost

spk_0 all of them were during his era as a showrunner. But, uh, well, he's going to remember those more.

spk_0 That's for sure. Yeah. But, uh, you know, they were mostly one could also say that that was that

spk_0 was peak voyage or season four, season five, you know, we're some of the best episodes. Although,

spk_0 I think Tim Russi picked a pretty early one because it was meld that I remember. Yeah. Yeah. For him,

spk_0 for sure. Yeah. But you're right. There was something lovely about that moment of just watching him do

spk_0 that with each of them. And as a voyager junkie, it was that panel was just a fantasy fun dream.

spk_0 Anyway, yeah. Just a little thing, you know, if you heard that there's, you know, William Shatner

spk_0 is in the hospital and you know, or something. There was a little health hiccup TMZ added again.

spk_0 You know, apparently an ambulance went to his house, but and left, but he said them away.

spk_0 He was he was not in it. Um, he had a blood sugar problem that he admitted, but the headlines about

spk_0 William Shatner hospitalized, you know, which ran around the world. Oh, yeah. Everywhere, you know,

spk_0 there in the UK and I saw so many of these and then Chattano the next day said, I'm fine. You

spk_0 know, and we, you know, and he immediately got out of plane and went to Salt Lake City. Yes. Of

spk_0 course he did. And we know people who saw him and there and he was great. And, you know, he's just,

spk_0 you know, he's 94. He's not going to live forever, but it feels like he is. Well, first of all,

spk_0 yes, he is. I've decided. I'm second of all, I could picture him being like, well, I'm not going

spk_0 to ride in that ambulance, but if you want me to drive and go pick up some people who need it,

spk_0 I will. I feel like he's more of the rescuing guy or slide across the hood. Or that.

spk_0 They are rebooting TJ Hooker. I don't know if he's going to be, it's going to be like a cop,

spk_0 action comedy kind of a thing. So, but I'm sure they'll figure out a way to get him in there somewhere.

spk_0 That'll be sure. Why not? I don't know who's been clamoring for a TJ Hooker reboot.

spk_0 All right. We're going to play my interview with Robert Duncan McNeil. So there's a group,

spk_0 a fan group called Star Trek Family. They have a large presence on Facebook. That is the best

spk_0 place to find them. You just go to Facebook and look for Star Trek Family. And they've been doing

spk_0 a whole bunch of events to celebrate Voyager's 30th anniversary. And they are taking donations for

spk_0 St. Jude's Children's Hospital as part of this. And they've got like, they've, I mean, people

spk_0 that they have already talked to and have coming up include Robert Piccardo, Roxanne Dawson,

spk_0 Garrett Wong, Doug Drexler, and Mike and Denise Acuda together, John Delansey, Unimakormack,

spk_0 Tim Raskert with Smith, Martha Hackett, David Livingston, who I'm going to be talking to for them.

spk_0 So it's like a fun, moderated conversation. And if you are in the group and you want to be there,

spk_0 you can actually join the live zoom and ask questions yourself.

spk_0 And when you hear the word Facebook, you probably think, oh, God, it's just a bunch of people yelling

spk_0 and screaming at each other about how things are better in the old days. But this group isn't that

spk_0 at all. In fact, it's a fairly well moderated group. Very well moderated. Their rule is that you

spk_0 can't be a jerk period. So I was going to say they have a lot of people who worked on Star Trek

spk_0 in the group also. You did a fun interview. It started off kind of funny though. It did. So the

spk_0 reason it did when Garrett and Robbie started the Delta Flares podcast, I did the interview with

spk_0 Robbie and Garrett. We talked for quite some time. And then a couple of weeks later, this is what

spk_0 I heard when I listened to an episode of the Delta Flares. Hey, Robbie. Hey, buddy. How are you?

spk_0 I'm okay. Yeah. We just got we just got done with our little interview with Trek movie.com

spk_0 with Lori. Yes, we did. Yes, we did. That was a that was a long in depth, emotionally draining

spk_0 interview. So when you listen to my interview with Robbie now, you'll know why I started off

spk_0 with a very Canadian apology. Okay. Well, let's listen to it.

spk_0 All right. Well, Robbie, I'm going to start with an apology. And the reason I'm starting with an

spk_0 apology is I've interviewed you once was you just started the Delta Flares and you know, I came

spk_0 prepared. Oh, nice shirt. I'm a patron. I watch the extended version every week. I love it.

spk_0 Yeah, a lot of fun in the extended version for sure. It is. And so I interviewed you and

spk_0 Garrett at the very beginning. And then a few weeks later, I heard you on the Delta Flares saying,

spk_0 we just did the interview with Lori from Trek movie and it was long and emotionally draining.

spk_0 Did I? You said that. And why was it emotionally draining? Did we, did we go deep? I don't

spk_0 know. Which I know wasn't the greatest. Yeah, it was some tough times like everybody has them.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. So I will not be emotionally draining my job as to fill up and not to drain.

spk_0 But if it's if I ask anything that goes down that road to say hard pass.

spk_0 So I want to start with Voyager and Delta Flares because you have watched the entire thing,

spk_0 you did start to finish, which is amazing. So did that change how you anything about the way

spk_0 you looked at the show or your place in it? Yeah, well, here you go going down and emotionally draining

spk_0 halfway. But no, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. I think that when I got on Voyager in 1994,

spk_0 August, I think of 94s when I got the job, I had come out of a tough year professionally and

spk_0 my wife. We had just had our second kid. And so it was very challenging. And yeah, when I got

spk_0 Voyager, I just wanted stability and like I was focused on the financial kind of this is making my

spk_0 life financially stable for the first time in a couple of years. And so I was also focused on

spk_0 directing because I had well, I've been interested in that before Voyager came along. But I knew that

spk_0 Voyager would be the best opportunity for me if if I was going to do that. So

spk_0 and I'm getting around to your question. So I think my focus was a lot on like the mechanics

spk_0 and the financial aspect. Just I need my paycheck. I need to be a team player. I need to

spk_0 you know, play it safe and and and get this directing opportunity. Whatever, however I can make that

spk_0 happen. So I was really kind of like it was very pragmatic, I guess, my attitude. And my kind of

spk_0 creative enjoyment of the process. There wasn't a lot of that if I'm being honest. Like it was very

spk_0 pragmatic. Everything was about what's the story they're trying to tell? What do I, you know, connect

spk_0 the dots and do the thing and make everybody happy and just keep keep the you know, don't rock the

spk_0 boat and don't take I just creatively wasn't really focused there. And I wasn't my my my excuse me

spk_0 my attention was on those other things I'm talking about. So when it was all said and done,

spk_0 yeah, it was a blur. You know, you kind of get the picture like I was it was all pragmatic. It was like

spk_0 and I and we ended up having another kid in the middle of Voyager Run. So there was a lot of my focus

spk_0 was on managing the helping to manage the household and being pragmatic and getting a direct

spk_0 directing career. It was all very at that time in my life. So I didn't I guess I wouldn't say that

spk_0 I enjoyed those years as much as I could have. There was a lot of fun. We did laugh and you know,

spk_0 day by day to day it was fun to make but my attention was in a million other places and not really

spk_0 kind of taking it all in. The stories, the the experience blah blah blah. So and then when I when

spk_0 I finished Voyager, I was focused on making sure I got a directing career going. I had to get that

spk_0 directing career going and I really wanted that to happen. So I focused hard on that. I didn't really

spk_0 think a lot about Voyager again, you know, head down, work hard, just keep keep trying to, you know,

spk_0 do my career and all that. So yeah, going back and watching it was like, you know, a lot of things

spk_0 have changed. My kids are grown. That marriage that I was in in the 90s didn't work out and

spk_0 now I'm in a great marriage and life is good and I didn't have all of that distractions. I could

spk_0 watch these episodes and I could talk about it. I mean, we could bring people on with stories that

spk_0 I'd forgotten or just it really changed my actually I wouldn't say change. It completed my experience.

spk_0 The part that I didn't really make space for when we were doing it, I was able to kind of make

spk_0 space for that sort of love of the show, love of my fellow actors kind of experiencing the stories

spk_0 in a way that was hard to experience, you know, back then. And a little sidebar, I just saw

spk_0 Kate Mulgrove. We spent the week with her last week, went out to visit her and been at her partner

spk_0 and we talked a lot about those Voyager days and it's funny because Kate had a similar experience

spk_0 to me in a way. She had two young kids, two boys. She was kind of a single mom and trying to be a mom

spk_0 and work and be a captain and she's like, God is such a blur. I don't, so much of it. I don't

spk_0 remember and there was no time or space to just enjoy myself, you know, and her mom was with

spk_0 Alzheimer's was beginning and there was just so much, you know, I think for Kate and myself,

spk_0 we talked a lot last week, kind of reminisced over how incredible those years were, but how like

spk_0 the tide was high, like on every level for us family and kids and all of it and, you know, now being

spk_0 at a I'm 60, she's 70. We're kind of at a place where yeah, as time goes by, you start to look back

spk_0 and appreciate things a little differently and yeah, the podcast has definitely helped.

spk_0 So I get the impression that you and Kate click pretty quickly, like right away, is that accurate?

spk_0 I think so, yeah, I think we did. You know, I've mentioned this before, but just a reminder,

spk_0 the way our trailers were outside of the stage, when you walked out of the stage door,

spk_0 if you're coming out of the stage, everyone's trailer was to the right. They were all lined up

spk_0 down there, except for me and Kate. We were to the left right by hair make up and we were the only

spk_0 two kind of by ourselves and then everybody else was down there. And so I think geography sort of

spk_0 helped dictate some of that because our doors opened to each other and public service announcement,

spk_0 don't smoke cigarettes, but we both smoked back then. She smoked cigarettes, I smoked. So we would

spk_0 leave our trailer doors open and we'd chat. We'd sit there and you know, have our coffee, work on

spk_0 our line chats, smoke our cigarette and often the doors were open and I would hear her on the

spk_0 phone with her boys and I'd hear if it was a tough time and so I might say, hey, you know,

spk_0 everything all right? So it led to a lot of, you know, happy accidents where she could, she knew that

spk_0 I was having a challenging time or vice versa and I think that kind of helped that led to a lot of

spk_0 our, you know, kind of knowing each other, maybe a little deeper than some of the other actors.

spk_0 So yeah, and both having young kids at home and trying to balance that. Yeah. So we all bond with

spk_0 the other parents that are, yeah, I think too. So in terms of Voyager and Tom Paris,

spk_0 he've talked a lot about how, you know, the way he was at the beginning, he was this womanizing guy

spk_0 and he always had a chip on his shoulder and that wasn't very fun for you to play, I know. But when

spk_0 you look back and especially now because you're a writer and a producer and a director, so you have a

spk_0 very different view of things, do you think he had to start where he did? He probably had more growth

spk_0 than maybe anybody except seven, maybe he's tied with seven for the amount of growth as a character

spk_0 over the over time. And so I'm wondering if he's thinking he needed that. Yes, he absolutely needed

spk_0 that. I mean, it's funny because when I was a younger actor, I always got cast as like

spk_0 the nice guy next door. You know, I was always playing the sweet, earnest guy. And it wasn't until

spk_0 around a little before Voyager that I got the opportunity on a couple shows, maybe on next

spk_0 gen, that guest star a few years before, to play a character who was not nice, but it wasn't really

spk_0 in my comfort zone. I hadn't played a lot of those, certainly on camera. I'd done it in the theater

spk_0 a little more, but even there, I did a lot of musical theater and it was a lot of earnest kind of.

spk_0 So playing Tom, the way they wrote him in the beginning for me, not only did I not think it was

spk_0 just a smart creative choice to make him so unlikable over and over again. I felt like that,

spk_0 that womanizer thing in particular was just not a maybe, you know,

spk_0 Riker could have gotten away with it because Freik sort of has this charm and they sort of

spk_0 wrote him with this, there's maybe other actors, but for me to play this like guy with an attitude

spk_0 who's also womanizing, it just on so many levels felt like this is not a likable character.

spk_0 You know, I didn't like the scenes and it didn't fit me naturally, it wasn't natural for me.

spk_0 So I told him the first season quite a quite a number of times, I was like, can't we find his humor

spk_0 in sense of humor? Can't we find like, there's got to be something here to grab onto

spk_0 that makes him a hero that makes him worthy of being here because they kept focusing on the flaws

spk_0 early on, the things, the weaknesses and the vices and the lack of kind of interpersonal skills.

spk_0 I don't know, it just, he was nice to Harry, but that was about it with everybody else, you know,

spk_0 with Chucote, had a big chip on his shoulder early on and I just thought they never wrote

spk_0 any story about that. Like if you're going to have us play that, please give us a story that explains

spk_0 why Tom's always sniping at Chucote and Chucote's sniping at Tom, like give us some backs,

spk_0 let's have some flashbacks and see something meaningful that gave them this kind of attitude, but that,

spk_0 yeah, I think that was my criticism of my character and probably in a way a lot of the characters

spk_0 in the first couple of years, is it was very, now that I've been a producer, writer, director on

spk_0 a lot of shows, I would call it lazy writing for some of those characters. They had great stories,

spk_0 but then they wouldn't really think about all of us as characters and the continuity of those

spk_0 characters over time and how these little things might play out, it was a bit lazy sometimes.

spk_0 But do you think we would have not seen the growth as much if he'd started from a better place?

spk_0 I think ultimately because he changed so much, especially because of the relationship with

spk_0 Balana, but yeah, I think that without the really flawed character out of the gate, it wouldn't have

spk_0 been as big a transformation. I wish they had shown us where those flaws came from a little more

spk_0 clearly. Sometimes the flaws were just there and they weren't really explained and you can often,

spk_0 you can often root for that flawed anti-hero, that unlikable character, you can root for them if

spk_0 you know why they're behaving the way they are, but if there just be in a jerk, it's harder to

spk_0 root, but if you don't know why. And that was the part I was like explain why, like the stories or

spk_0 ultimately the arc of the character and the more nuance that he had and the relationship with

spk_0 Balana, the relationship with a lot of the characters, not just Harry, and that people often talk

spk_0 about that, but the relationship with Nielix, the relationship with Tuvac, all of those relationships

spk_0 got so much better. So yeah, it's great. Yeah, and I think the relationship with Balana was the

spk_0 was the biggest, the most important one because you saw him putting him putting someone else

spk_0 ahead of himself in a really big way. I was looking at the the writer's guide, which is obviously

spk_0 very different from how things turn out, where they say and then the writer's guide Balana likes Tom,

spk_0 and Tom is doesn't want to be unprofessional, it says, which is very funny.

spk_0 But like how early did you feel that they were starting to think about that as a relationship they

spk_0 wanted to have in the show? Um, wait, I'm trying to think. I mean, it was relatively early,

spk_0 but probably around season three, I felt like a little bit before then, but they also were

spk_0 toying with like, Kess and Tom stuff. Yeah. It was very weird to me. So gross. It was gross. Yeah,

spk_0 all that stuff I didn't like. But I would say, but I would say there was a little bit of some of

spk_0 the interactions. I think they saw that Roxanne and myself, you know, she's a very strong actress.

spk_0 The character was had a lot of strength to it. And they were also kind of an odd, we were a bit

spk_0 of an odd couple. Roxanne and I both, you know, she's very organized and together and polished.

spk_0 Roxanne is a human and I'm much more spontaneous and messier and sloppier. And clearly I showed up

spk_0 but yeah, I think that they saw and I felt Roxanne and I both felt like, oh, these characters

spk_0 are fun together. Like I hope they give us some more scenes even in the little interactions. It was

spk_0 it was always fun. Did you feel like you were adding something that the writers picked up on?

spk_0 Or do you think they just wanted that for the characters? I think in my experience, producing a lot

spk_0 of shows now and having worked on shows, I think that you have to go into a series with some

spk_0 ideas of where you're headed. But you also have to stay open to discovering things that you

spk_0 may not expect. Chemistry between actors, there may be a character that you thought was very

spk_0 peripheral that pops. I mean, the doctor is a great example of that because he was not written

spk_0 as a large character, certainly not in the pilot. And in the first, I think they always thought

spk_0 he was going to be sort of potted off in some B stories and supporting in the A stories here

spk_0 and there. But to develop him as a character, I don't think they expected that until Bob

spk_0 Picardo came in and sort of brought what he brought. And immediately they're like, wow, we can

spk_0 take this doctor character place as we never imagined. So I think for Tom and Belana, I don't think

spk_0 had planned it. What I remember is they had actually had an idea that maybe Tom and Janeway

spk_0 would actually be a potential romance. I think early on in the first season Kate said to the

spk_0 writers and to Rick Berman, I don't want Janeway to ever have a relationship, any relationship.

spk_0 She can be tempted by her feelings and have the passions, of course, but I don't want her to choose

spk_0 a relationship. She's got to be a captain. So that's why Janeway, the Janeway,

spk_0 Chico Tay stuff never was fully realized because Kate didn't want it to be. She wanted the

spk_0 will they want to is fine, but she didn't want to be, she wanted to be the captain and not have a

spk_0 relationship that a serialized relationship. It's interesting. I mean, I actually agree with her

spk_0 about that. But since, yeah, since you saw it and watched the whole thing, like there's so many

spk_0 JC shippers out there. I'm one of them. So yeah, like, my guess my question is like, should they

spk_0 have gotten together and or did that like in my mind, they did it once just to get it out of their

spk_0 system? Yeah, they probably did. Do you think that would have been a good story if they'd done

spk_0 stuff with them and they'd gotten together? I think that they, it would have been nice because it

spk_0 seemed so obvious to me, rewatching the show that those two characters had a lot of chemistry and a

spk_0 lot of interest in each other. They were playing it. They were writing it. I wish they had more

spk_0 explicitly had a story or an episode or a time where they addressed it where they just kind of

spk_0 talked about it. Yes, I've got these feelings for you and Janeway, I have them for you, but I can't

spk_0 because of this. This is what, you know, I'm a captain and I can't do it because of this reason.

spk_0 I wish they had explicitly sort of well, he did make her a bathtub. He did make her a bathtub.

spk_0 It was a monkey, I think. Yes, there was a monkey. A monkey friend. Yeah, that was. They did it

spk_0 without words, I think. Yeah, yeah, I think that was the episode where they wanted to say, look,

spk_0 they're on the deserted island and it's going to get romantic and then when they go back,

spk_0 that's when they decide we can never do this. We can never, this can never be.

spk_0 Well, let's talk about your directing on Voyager. So the first one you did was sacred ground and it was,

spk_0 that was your first like paid directing job. Yeah. So tell, can you do remember that first day like

spk_0 now you're a director? You're walking into remember what that was like? I was very nervous. I had

spk_0 built this up in my head so much and it was also, it had a lot of kind of spiritual stuff,

spk_0 which I never did. We never went down that road. And yeah, how was it? The cast was great. I

spk_0 learned that I didn't know as much as I thought because there was some scenes we got into where

spk_0 I felt like I froze like a deer in the headlights and Marvin Rush very kindly helped to solve some

spk_0 of the problems that I didn't have solutions for. Yeah, it's funny now like I feel like I could walk

spk_0 onto any set with a scene that you could hand me in that moment and I could figure out 10 ways

spk_0 to do it. But back then I was nervous and it was great. We had a great guest cast and the spiritual

spk_0 stuff was interesting, you know, to play with. I learned a lot. I learned a lot. I was physically

spk_0 and emotionally and my nervous system was drained by the time we finished. I was just a

spk_0 mess, but very happy with it. And I did I did pitch some things to the writers that they put in.

spk_0 So the sort of prepping when January's getting bathed. I had remembered an image from a next

spk_0 end episode where Patrick Stewart was being tortured and he was naked and he was vulnerable.

spk_0 And I said, I think Janeway should have a moment of vulnerability before this spirit, this

spk_0 you know, vision quest. And it'd be great to see her sort of having a ritual sort of bathing or

spk_0 cleansing or something where we see that she's vulnerable. She her captain suit is off before she

spk_0 puts on the robe. And so they added that scene, which I talked to Kate first. I said, are you

spk_0 willing to I'm not going to show any nudity, but I want to feel the vulnerability for you. And

spk_0 it will do it very tastefully. And she was happy to do it. That feels like the anchor point of

spk_0 the episode for me. That scene is so I mean, I've been rewatching all of them. And it's that moment

spk_0 where she does switch from like the captain who's like, I'm going to solve this problem. I've got it.

spk_0 And then and she backs away from them right when they first start. And then she comes and then

spk_0 she has to let them do it. And because she's such a tremendous actress, you can see it all playing

spk_0 out in her face. But it is this combination of vulnerability and like I'm letting myself be vulnerable.

spk_0 But I'm but I don't want to. But it's I that is the pivotal scene to me and actually the whole episode.

spk_0 Oh, thank you. That's great to hear because I felt like I don't remember the earliest draft that I

spk_0 read, but it felt like suddenly she's on this spiritual journey. And I said, I think we need a

spk_0 transit. We need to see her decide to be vulnerable. And so I was really happy on my first episode

spk_0 that they took a pitch. And I didn't even pitch as an actor. I would like I said, I just wanted to

spk_0 not rock the boat. So even if I didn't like a script, I was like, I'm not going to rock the boat.

spk_0 I just want to keep my job. But but on that one, I felt a little more empowered to, you know,

spk_0 I'm directing. And so I did pitch that moment. Oh, that's cool. I'm glad you liked that. Yeah,

spk_0 it really worked. And then you did unity. Yes, which was bringing back the board, which I know

spk_0 was a big deal for everybody. It was a big deal. It was not my favorite script. I didn't love some

spk_0 of our guest cast on that. If I'm being honest, I didn't love the female lead guest star. I think

spk_0 we had an actor, another theater actor. It was his very first thing in front of a camera. I knew him

spk_0 from New York theater. And he was phenomenal. But the female lead I didn't love. And I just felt

spk_0 like it was a slow paced. Yeah, moody. And I had done the sacred ground, which was a little slow

spk_0 pace because of the spirit quest. But at least that one sort of earned this one felt.

spk_0 Yeah, I don't know. A little cold. A little cold. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't quite work for me. And I

spk_0 was like, Oh, no, this directing thing. It's not as easy as I. I thought it was going to get

spk_0 better and better. But I feel like it was my sophomore slump a little bit. Like I didn't get a

spk_0 critical. She is a lovely actress. I just think for this episode, it needed somebody with more

spk_0 edge with more. It needed a Jerry Ryan or somebody. It needed, you know what I mean? It needed

spk_0 something like that. Yeah, no one I think to guest star on Star Trek, you have to be able to accept

spk_0 whatever insane premise they've just given you and humanize it as much as possible. Yeah.

spk_0 And I think that's really hard to do. It is hard to do. Yeah. And they also gave me a set for

spk_0 most of the episode that was recycled from something they had just done. And I remember they were

spk_0 saying, Well, we're going to adapt the set. We're going to put a wall here and there wasn't much room

spk_0 to work. It was it was a very small. So I was like, Oh, I'm in a small world and

spk_0 well, then then you get into the glorious someone to watch over me. Yes. Which is a beautiful

spk_0 episode. Now I read you you'll have to tell me if this is true that it was still being written

spk_0 when you started filming. Oh, I don't know if that's true. If I said it, it probably was true.

spk_0 I was just curious. I mean, if you don't remember that's different because I'm wondering how is a

spk_0 director and as actors you deal with not knowing what the ending's going to be? Well, I guess what

spk_0 I would say is there was a time where sometimes you would be a director on a show and you wouldn't

spk_0 get a script and you'd start prepping and you wouldn't have a script. You may not have it for

spk_0 a couple days and then they make you a part of a script and that was in the 90s that was

spk_0 happening a bit and then the director's guild director's guild said, wait a minute, you can't

spk_0 you if a director starts prepping, you've got to give them a script and I don't know if that

spk_0 happened during Voyager or shortly after but but then the game that the writers would play is

spk_0 they give you a script but on day one of prep but they'd say we're rewriting this whole thing.

spk_0 Don't you know this is just kind of an area that we're going to be writing in but it's

spk_0 and a little sidebar. I did an episode of I did an episode of Medium and it was an episode they told

spk_0 me you're going to do we're going to shoot some of the provisions in 3D and there's going to be a

spk_0 special event. They're going to have glasses at the 7-Eleven or something and it's going to be in

spk_0 3D on we're going to so we're going to be using 3D cameras and everything and I was like great

spk_0 but Glenn Gordon-Karen who ran that show was notorious for writing like the day before you

spk_0 start shooting and I had heard this so they gave me a script and I think Rene Ashevary was on that

spk_0 writing staff at the time and Rene came in and said don't make any plans with the script because

spk_0 Glenn's going to rewrite the whole thing. I'm like it's a 3D episode like what are we shooting? I don't

spk_0 and Rene is like good luck. All I can tell you is you'll probably get some pages the day before

spk_0 and then you'll start and he was absolutely right. I got maybe 20 pages the day before and then

spk_0 every day we would get some pages in the morning and some pages at lunch and so you just had to

spk_0 wing it but by the time I did that show I was much more confident dealing with that challenge

spk_0 to go back to someone to watch over me. My guess is they probably gave me a script, a writer's

spk_0 draft or something unofficial, something that they wouldn't show the actors. They probably gave

spk_0 me a script and I started I probably started prepping after unity which was my sophomore slump.

spk_0 I really wanted someone to watch over me to be great and I knew I had a good concept. The doctor

spk_0 coming on to learn about Voyager's life and getting drunk and going you know.

spk_0 And being Scott Thompson. And being well we didn't have anybody cast.

spk_0 When I read the first draft and they may have rewritten up until we started shooting but I remember

spk_0 when I read the first draft I'm like great it's not unity. This is a good script and I have to

spk_0 lean into the comedy. I have to get a great actor for the monk. So Ian Abercombie who played the

spk_0 look. Ian I did a play with I asked for Ian for that role. Scott Thompson's name was on a list

spk_0 and I was like kids in the hall absolutely he's funny. He's going to be hilarious. And I remember

spk_0 Rick Berman was like I don't know I don't know if he's really right for Star Trek. I was like

spk_0 he's going to be so good. And then all of the people that she ended up dating were friends of mine

spk_0 that actors that I knew and knew well I knew that they could be do the romcom kind of comedy.

spk_0 And I knew Bob and Jerry could pull it off. Oh my god they were amazing. They were so good. And so

spk_0 I really pushed for actors that I knew because on unity I didn't know all the actors.

spk_0 And I felt like I should have been more aggressive about my opinions for casting.

spk_0 On unity I wasn't and I sort of got what I got and I was I was not happy. So on yes

spk_0 someone to watch over me was me pushing a lot on the casting and I was super happy with that.

spk_0 Yeah it's a beautiful episode. Yeah. And body and soul is one of my favorites. I just love

spk_0 that episode. Jerry Ryan just tails it. She just was it your idea that that Robert

spk_0 Percato should film himself doing things and send it to her? I don't know if Bob and we were talking

spk_0 about the episode. And I don't know if it was my idea or Bob's but in the conversation with

spk_0 he and I I remember saying you know could I come in and record you doing this on my video camera

spk_0 and I'll give Jerry the video and she can watch it over the weekend and study it so that she

spk_0 sort of gives line readings like she might get some ideas. I don't know if it was his or mine.

spk_0 I remember it was a conversation he and I had. Did you work with her? Did she just come in like

spk_0 ready to go with her Robert Percato imitation? She kind of had a funny one that she would you know

spk_0 she she she had fun with making fun of Bob and you know she would imitate Garrett and

spk_0 she would do imitation a little bit and she enjoyed it you know she enjoyed sort of playing around

spk_0 with that. So she already had sort of an idea but I think the when I had Bob do sort of an

spk_0 exaggerated version of himself. I had him kind of push it up a little bit. So I think that

spk_0 gave her a lot of good line readings and good you know little ticks and behaviors that she stole

spk_0 from the video and yeah we had a blast with that. I think Megan Gallagher was in that. Yeah she was.

spk_0 Megan I knew from New York theater. I always loved when there were people that I had a relationship

spk_0 with you know friendship with or professional relationship but just I still love that like

spk_0 the last few shows I've done Linda Hamilton and I became friends 10 years ago or maybe 15

spk_0 you know and I keep finding Linda a job on everything I do because I just love I love having

spk_0 the familiar people around and she's great in Resident Alien. I love that show I love it and she's

spk_0 phenomenal. Yeah she's great. Well so you were part I mean they call it Rick Werman's directing

spk_0 school but really it's just like I think more of a less like go sit in edits and do this and do

spk_0 that but I'm really curious just from that wanting to be a fly in the wall kind of thing.

spk_0 When you started being in the room with Rick giving notes because that must have been part of it like

spk_0 what was that like for you coming I mean it's your show that you've been acting on and then you're

spk_0 coming in and sitting there while he's giving notes like was that hard for you to take in was it

spk_0 interesting. Well I think to the you know Star Trek directing school there was no directing school

spk_0 there was no syllabus there was no right there was no schedule there was nothing organized in any

spk_0 way I think that through word of mouth you know depending on how driven you were and I was the

spk_0 first one on our show I came in day one and I told Rick literally on day one that I wanted to

spk_0 direct and I had been shadowing on some other shows and he laughed at me and said yeah we'll see

spk_0 down the road but because I'd already been shadowing a little on a few other series I had worked on

spk_0 I knew what I needed to do I knew that I needed to trail some directors while they worked so I

spk_0 needed to come in when I wasn't filming and watch you know go through the process with some of those

spk_0 directors I needed to go to production meetings and hear all the department's talk and hear what

spk_0 Rick's answers and I need to do that I needed to be in his notes screenings back then you know now we

spk_0 can watch on our computer at home a cut from the editor but back then you had to go into the edit

spk_0 bay and actually watch it or they'd output a three quarter inch video and you'd watch it

spk_0 in a room in the production office so Rick would screen the episode and he would give notes stop and go

spk_0 as we went and his assistant would write down all the notes and that's how he gave notes on the

spk_0 editor's cuts so I knew I had to be in those because I wanted to hear what he liked what he

spk_0 didn't like and I wanted him to know that I knew that so that he would have confidence in me I've

spk_0 never thought about this before but I do think some other actors express some interest in directing

spk_0 but it wasn't until I directed in the second season everybody went oh wow this can happen and suddenly

spk_0 we came back the episode after I directed or something and I think Les Landau was directing and

spk_0 there were like six actors huddling and he was like I remember at one point he's like can you guys

spk_0 just shut up like I can't there's so many of you here it was everybody with it Andy Robinson was

spk_0 there and Roxanne and Bob and Tim and I don't know who else it was a lot of people I think that and

spk_0 I've never thought about this before but I think that the things that I did of editing production

spk_0 meetings shadowing directors I think sort of for our show set a model for some of the other actors

spk_0 I now that I think about it I never I never would take credit for that but I think just naturally

spk_0 because there was no syllabus there was no so they sort of looked at well what did Robbie do well

spk_0 I'll just do what he did he went to the production meetings and he went to editing and he went he

spk_0 followed some directors and a lot of people started doing that sort of version but everyone had their

spk_0 their own you know version of how they learned about directing Roxanne went and took some

spk_0 outside courses and classes I think Roxanne shot up an episode of this college TV show down in

spk_0 Orange County or something like you know she did she did her path and Bob did his and Tim went

spk_0 shot in Indie Film on summer so everybody had a little slightly different path but

spk_0 I think Jonathan Freak says for him it was like 300 hours in the edit room a lot of editing time yeah

spk_0 that's a great that's where you see it all really come together yeah so let's talk about Captain

spk_0 Proton for a moment I know that at some point you had a pitch going for some kind of something to

spk_0 do with Captain Proton that you were pitching to secret hideout I would love to know what your idea

spk_0 was if you don't mind sharing it yeah I talked to a couple people I forget who a couple of the

spk_0 development people at Paramount or Secret Hideout because what I wanted to do we started the

spk_0 Void the Delta Flyers podcast and I was having so much fun rewatching these episodes and I think we

spk_0 had seen it one of the Captain the first Captain Proton little one or something and I was like this

spk_0 should be a podcast like it kind of was the concept was reminded me of the old serialized radio

spk_0 you know dramas or or the little short one real shorts that they used to play back in the 30s

spk_0 and 40s before the main feature the little short short form serialized things anyway I was like

spk_0 we should do a Captain Proton podcast in the style of an old radio show and have all the actors

spk_0 and they could be short it could be like a you know a 10 minute podcast story that's all serialized

spk_0 and then maybe the whole season is 20 episodes of 10 minute yeah 20 10 minute episodes for a two-hour

spk_0 story and I got David Goodman who's a family guy writer and and was also an enterprise and

spk_0 president of the writers guild I got David Goodman very interested in it we talked about it

spk_0 and I just went and pitched that idea to them and they're like they thought about it and then

spk_0 they came back and said now we don't want to do that we've got like five other podcast ideas that we

spk_0 want to do I don't know that they've done any podcast they did they just released Star Trek Khan

spk_0 isn't it second week and it's really good it's a full on audio drama and it's great it's really

spk_0 good yeah oh good with Naveen Andrews from Lost and Rinch mitt from For All mankind oh wow I have

spk_0 to check it out because when they literally told me we've got five other ideas that were already

spk_0 sort of developing and this sounds interesting but we're just not gonna take it on right now

spk_0 given the things that Paramount have changed Skydance now owns Paramount and I know a lot of the

spk_0 people who had ideas that didn't go through are getting sort of back in the queue oh really you

spk_0 know I think so my understanding is that certain people who had pitches are coming back so would

spk_0 you consider like once the dust settles a little and especially everything's not right now but

spk_0 would you be inch would you still want to pitch that and push it out I think it would be so fun

spk_0 because like I haven't listened to Khan but like the way you're describing Khan is kind of the

spk_0 version of Captain Proton I wanted to do fully produced like yeah old-fashioned radio music and

spk_0 the sound effects and you know I think if if we embraced somehow and I don't have a specific

spk_0 story although I'm sure we could come up with some great ideas using Captain Proton in a stylized

spk_0 version of of that we could figure it out you know a couple of ways you could do you could live

spk_0 totally inside the holographic Captain Proton world or you could have an A story that's on the

spk_0 ship in some way that goes in and out and all the music and everything changes the way that

spk_0 the photography changed when we did it yeah you know we were on the ship and then once you went

spk_0 into the hologram it was black and white very different style yeah Khan has a framing device that

spk_0 kind of works as well for that and also I mean I work at Audible and their audio drum is with huge

spk_0 stars yeah all the time like that's that genre has come back in full force that's cool I think well

spk_0 maybe I should revisit it with them yeah because I think it it just it begs to be made into some audio

spk_0 version that's the DNA of Captain Proton's source material is radio dramas the old-fashioned radio

spk_0 you've been very active in like you were involved in check the vote and you are obviously your

spk_0 vocal about the things that matter to you and that are important I saw that you just posted that you

spk_0 canceled your Disney plus subscription which I saw and I'm just this is kind of serious so again if

spk_0 this is draining or serious just send me packing but given the current climate especially this week

spk_0 like are you worried about expressing yourself at all does that concern you or you just feel like

spk_0 you have to go or your conscience takes you I mean these are scary times they're scary times

spk_0 yeah you know politics and and something like this it's tricky to go down that road because it

spk_0 for me my perspective is it's very scary times the culture that the the divisions politically

spk_0 and and and culturally in our country have never been greater I mean maybe the civil war but

spk_0 God forbid that it leads to something like that but it's bad it's really bad right now yeah

spk_0 am I afraid I to answer that I guess I would say that I'm not as afraid as some of the targeted

spk_0 groups and I feel a privilege that I don't have to live my life as afraid as some people who are

spk_0 targeted there are groups of people that I know are very afraid and because I have the privilege of

spk_0 not being a targeted group I think I have a responsibility to try to do what I can to to make

spk_0 everyone safe and and feel seen and feel valued and that they matter and I think the framework

spk_0 of our the documents that organized the United States of America to almost 250 years ago

spk_0 are strong but they take people staying actively engaged to keep them working because they're it's

spk_0 not impossible to break them and we've seen a lot of things broken in the last six or eight months

spk_0 yeah well last 10 years really a lot of things have gotten broken and so be nice to

spk_0 to fix things instead of break things yeah and I those I see you bringing those values into the

spk_0 art that you're making like when you watch resident alien there's a huge variety of people there

spk_0 with a wide variety of opinions and backgrounds and they all come together so I I feel like you're

spk_0 doing that in the in the shows that you work on and in the way that you talk I mean I'm listening to

spk_0 you guys watching deep space nine now yeah and you're doing and you just have such thoughtful

spk_0 takes on everything um what are you thinking of how do you feel about deep space nine now you're in

spk_0 season four I think it's late late in season four I mean if I'll be honest the first two seasons

spk_0 or so maybe in the first three were very um hitter miss for me there's a lot of stuff for sometimes

spk_0 I'd love an episode and then another episode or two go by and be like oh this is not

spk_0 not good um I'm sure and I and I feel the same about our about Voyager honestly at the first

spk_0 couple of years I think we started with a more a more consistent our ups and downs weren't as high

spk_0 and low as theirs they had some real highs and they had some real lows first couple of seasons I

spk_0 think they've hit their stride now by season four out of the gate like late season three into

spk_0 the beginning of season four I was just like oh my god I feel this show taking off and the stakes

spk_0 that they're building and the web of storylines and characters and all of that I just thought

spk_0 it's really good I really am enjoying it but it took it took them a while like I said their highs

spk_0 were sometimes higher than ours but their lows I think were lower than ours early on but it feels

spk_0 like they're taking off and probably my expectation of where this show is going is I think I'm going

spk_0 I'm going to like it better than the last three seasons of our show I think it's good I think

spk_0 it's going to be a better sci-fi show in these last three seasons and they've got so many

spk_0 characters to work with and so many interesting relationships yeah the stuff with Rom recently

spk_0 like the changes yeah that like wow like that's incredible and he's max is so good with

spk_0 grounding that that character and still keeping the comedy and the and the character is still the

spk_0 same person but that's been a surprising evolution for me yeah there's more comment more evolution

spk_0 and cool stuff I bet I bet yeah no spoilers yeah have you read Nana's book I haven't we got a copy

spk_0 of it I have not read it yet but it looks beautiful we did get a copy of it I think once you

spk_0 pick it up you won't be able to put it down oh really so it's it looks like a coffee table book

spk_0 it's not a coffee table book yeah sort of confused me when I opened up the box when it came I was like

spk_0 yeah is it a coffee table book but but it doesn't you flip through it and it's it's got meat you know

spk_0 yeah she was asked to do just profile inspirational Star Trek women and she changed the whole concept

spk_0 and she interviewed everybody about their experience it's really it's it I highly recommend it

spk_0 I think you would love it yeah yeah I will definitely check it out so just in terms of I'm jumping

spk_0 all over the place here but so I think we can see when we when we see you directing the work that

spk_0 you do it's obvious to me that it comes from an actor because I think you feel the connections to

spk_0 the people and there's always a big focus on story and emotion it's always very grounded but you

spk_0 were still acting when you started directing so how did directing inform your acting did that

spk_0 change the way that you were doing things as Tom Paris I think often it did if I was directing

spk_0 I think it's in someone to watch over me I think it's that episode where I've got a scene with

spk_0 the doctor where I give him some advice maybe it was it was something I was directing well you're

spk_0 you have a bet with him in that one about seven dating I have a bet and then is there a moment of like

spk_0 sincerity from Tom I think so I think so too I think it was in that episode where it wasn't a big

spk_0 long scene but it was an exchange and Tom had a little speech about something that he was very

spk_0 sincere about and I remember afterwards I said to Bob I said God that felt really good and he goes

spk_0 he goes you were really good like you were really present and and I didn't feel like you were

spk_0 acting at all and I did feel that when I was directing I had a sense of confidence about the story

spk_0 and I just knew the story so much deeper and better that it reminded me when I was directing

spk_0 and acting in the episode it reminded me of my theater days which that was what I love the most

spk_0 acting because we got to rehearse for three or four weeks but I'm your performing you've got

spk_0 an ownership of the material in a way that with filming you come out you rehearse for five 10 minutes

spk_0 maybe and then you're filming 20 minutes later and you know you're you never quite feel like

spk_0 oh I've done this enough I've rehearsed long enough that I that I can live in this scene without

spk_0 even thinking about it and that's how I felt when I directed I felt like I was I was deeper into it

spk_0 yeah yeah I think it uh because you do bring something there's something but there is a shift in Tom

spk_0 that I do think people start to connect with him or I know sometimes the trick writers do is they

spk_0 make other characters like them so that the audience will like them yeah but I think Tom kind of

spk_0 evolved into that himself yeah and that's it's writing but it's also acting and this thinks the

spk_0 scenes with Roxanne I think were what always brought that home for me yeah and then Tom's relationship

spk_0 with his dad which I think is the backstory that we needed to see yeah you know what you were talking

spk_0 about before Una McCormack wrote the autobiography of Catherine Jane I know you're a big reader but

spk_0 I'm imagining you're not reading Star Trek books probably not yeah that was my guess she writes

spk_0 in that book Janeway knows Tom from the time he's 12 and so she knows his whole history so I would

spk_0 I would suggest a skim at least for you just I think you and she's a lovely writer but I think you'd

spk_0 find it very interesting and is it again what's the title of it it's the autobiography of Catherine

spk_0 Janeway she changed my when I read the book it made me rewatch Voyager in a different way wow

spk_0 that one more just a fun one I was at a convention recently in Tim Russ was talking about these elaborate

spk_0 practical jokes that he and Kate played on each other yes and there was one in particular where she

spk_0 had stolen his street clothes and so he went to her trailer and he then he when he found his close

spk_0 there he took a bunch of pictures of his bare butt and put them all over and since your trailer was

spk_0 right there I'm wondering how much of this you were aware of and saw I I'm trying to remember I

spk_0 think I remember there was something going on but there was always you know people were having fun

spk_0 with each other and so but I do that story rings a bell because I think I do remember him saying

spk_0 he was going to leave some surprises and then like the next day or whenever it was Kate came out

spk_0 with the pictures and you know yelling to the 80s I can't believe he did this I mean it was she

spk_0 you know was laughing and it was it was very funny yeah we did we would do stuff like that a lot

spk_0 yeah and throwing things at each other right here yeah also yeah throwing cake balls I know there

spk_0 are a lot of people waiting to ask you questions yeah I want to say thank you for this for the Delta

spk_0 Flyers for Voyager for directing and a part for everything like you've contributed I think I

spk_0 I think a lot of us feel this way like you've contributed a lot to art to the art that makes our

spk_0 lives better so and I listen to a thousand I love podcasts I listen to a lot of them the only one

spk_0 I never miss an entire episode of is the Delta Flyers oh thank you and I listen to big mainstream

spk_0 I listen to smart listen I'm chair expert and and Julia Louis Dreyfus says and all these things but

spk_0 you guys I just I love where you go with it the discussions you have so thank you oh sure I'm glad

spk_0 I'm glad I mean and and what you said before about just art that matters it's meaningful that's

spk_0 inspiring like that's the point right is to move people and not just entertain them but hopefully

spk_0 have something they can remember and think about for me when I started as an actor when I started

spk_0 as a kid like a 12 13 year old kid doing theater I was painfully shy and I didn't know I was not

spk_0 very emotionally intelligent I was I was painfully shy and having stories like the community theater

spk_0 that I did characters there was a script it told you what to say in the moment it always had a happy

spk_0 ending back then the show's the you know we did and I felt like I learned I could remember oh

spk_0 when you are nervous and you have a crush on a girl you can do it like the script did it and it

spk_0 taught me you know what I mean like I learned a lot of emotional intelligence from from the art that

spk_0 I was able to do as a as a kid the community theater and I think I've continued in the movies that

spk_0 I watch we just watch Superman the new Superman's night of the hands oh so much emotional intelligence

spk_0 like things to remember and to stew on there and it was entertaining and I laughed and it was exciting

spk_0 and amazing to watch but like that's the kind of art that I love that can entertain you and also make

spk_0 you think and and stick with you a little while so I'm glad that the things I've been a part of

spk_0 have done that for some people for a lot of people thank you yeah I'm always impressed with you

spk_0 it's funny because I think people kind of associate him with his character or you know but

spk_0 he's so much more thoughtful and you know I mean obviously he's an industry professional but

spk_0 he's he's a lot different than typical actors I guess and that's kind of why he's now now behind

spk_0 the scenes kind of guy and honest too which I really like and thoughtful I mean that's what I have

spk_0 been enjoying so much about the Delta flyers it's just he says things about stories and emotions

spk_0 and moments that like he is a creative person he is writing and he is producing and he is directing

spk_0 and there's a good reason for that now he did I remember we we made a big deal about how he wanted

spk_0 to bring Captain Proton back just back when they were doing short tracks or at least when that

spk_0 was relevant and I think his it was initially this like 2020 when we were really running with this

spk_0 stuff 2021 so what seems news to me even though he kind of mentioned this before was that he is now

spk_0 saying that when he went into pitch it he pitched it as a scripted podcast which I think would

spk_0 is a much easier sell but it is interesting that he said that they had five scripted podcast ideas

spk_0 on the table at the time I know I I at the kind of that one got past me when it was happening live

spk_0 and then later when I was editing I heard that one oh I wonder if he knew when any of those were

spk_0 one of them got out of development which was the con one but I'm wondering well the con wasn't

spk_0 the con the Cisco the con one was still a mini series back then right I'm trying to remember when

spk_0 it was announced but obviously my bet is when he went in that was one of the ones they were

spk_0 considering they may not have announced it yet but right yeah I think the idea of it being a TV

spk_0 mini series died by 2019 we know that they want to do more but it's all about how well Khan does

spk_0 and in fact John van Citters who's the vice president at CBS studios and Ben was Star Trek forever

spk_0 basically said that on Twitter he's like if you want to see more of this then you got to listen to

spk_0 Star Trek Khan because right which sounds like they've got you know there's they they have ideas

spk_0 for more of this but they're not going to make it unless this thing does well well I hope it does

spk_0 do well because it's great anyway but back to the Robbie interview it was you did a great job

spk_0 keeping it light for the audience but still it's some real questions yet didn't end up being that

spk_0 light but I'm I felt bad for that too but I for me I loved the deep dive into the episodes he

spk_0 directed I found that to be so fascinating and I love that he was trying to remember stuff while

spk_0 he was talking about it and I was especially happy that I could tell him that a decision he made in

spk_0 the first episode he directed Timmy was the was the most important scene in the whole episode

spk_0 you know and that brought up a thing you know because we've got this hiatus coming up or we're in

spk_0 it now Academy isn't going to show up till I don't know February March so we've got a few things

spk_0 scheduled and planned out but this idea of doing a whole podcast episodes dedicated just to a

spk_0 single classic Star Trek episode from next janitor Voyager Enterprise or anything is something that

spk_0 we've thought about and we'd love to hear from people about you know what is an episode you'd love

spk_0 us to do a deep dive and it could be a stupid episode it could be subrosa it could be rascals

spk_0 so but yeah let us know you know what what you'd like to do deep dive oh I know you're

spk_0 100% serious about rascals I love rascals maybe we could get one of the kids the kids like the little

spk_0 the you know who played the the younger versions of those kids say they're not kids anymore yeah X kids

spk_0 we're all X kids I guess anyway I guess we should you have anything more to say about Robbie

spk_0 should we move on to bits of the week I'm just going to say please donate to St. Jude's Children

spk_0 Hospital through the link that is on our site on the post about this podcast that would be great

spk_0 and there's more to come so there are more they do interviews all the time if you go to their

spk_0 Facebook page there's a tab called events and they have watch parties and more interviews coming

spk_0 fantastic so let's do our bits of the week mine I just love when Star Trek is kind of in the

spk_0 real world and I have one where it worked its way to the court system again the headline from law

spk_0 360 which is kind of a full on lawyer's site is Star Trek jury instruction not fatal to trial

spk_0 Florida court says which caught my eye so a couple years ago this guy was convicted of battery

spk_0 and he appealed the conviction based on the fact that the judge giving his jury instructions

spk_0 used Star Trek in his example of circumstantial evidence of like if you see and it was like this

spk_0 complicated thing was like if you had a cat in a box and you opened the box and the cat wasn't there

spk_0 you know it's not reasonable to think that the cat was beamed out by a transporter then you

spk_0 said this it's not it's not but anyway so you know and this was appealed to a higher court and they

spk_0 the judges said it's fine they said while confusing the extended metaphor did not

spk_0 fatally taint the potential jurors so there you go Star Trek can be used can be cited to

spk_0 instructors noted that they may come you never know what he got well I like when Star Trek is

spk_0 mentioned in the fictional world how about that okay so I've been on a strange kick of rewatching

spk_0 24 which is very not a lorry show and yet I watch a ton of it and I of course we all know like

spk_0 manicodo was the I think the showrunner by the end yeah wasn't he yeah and he was on it his

spk_0 brother was on it Brandon Braggar wrote a ton of episodes so in the same season that has John

spk_0 Bellingsley who dies sorry Conor Traneer who survives even though he hangs out with Jack we've got all

spk_0 the there's a ton of Star Trek people in it and he was singing Glenn Morshauer and Kurt Witt Smith

spk_0 Tony Todd all of these people and Paul Wesley by the way is Kim Bowers husband which I never realized

spk_0 until last week but there's this great scene where the president cherry Jones is talking to

spk_0 talking about staff you know all of a sudden I perk up because I was doing something else and I

spk_0 hear it in the background like oh do you have someone in mind I do Rick Burman and then I'm like what

spk_0 and then what someone else queued me so I went back and listened to it again they start with

spk_0 the first suggestion they have is Bob Jessman and then they go oh Bob do you know how about Rick

spk_0 Burman and then they go okay well let's you know we'll talk to Rick but then they go keep Bob on

spk_0 the list I have a good feeling about him so I love that they threw this stuff in there and of course

spk_0 that show is just filled with Star Trek people start to finish especially once Maddie took over

spk_0 he was such a nerd but that's pretty funny obviously I'm sure that he cleared it with Rick you

spk_0 have to clear those things right yes you do like a year ago a friend of mine someone said to me oh

spk_0 why was your name in a movie I was watching and I was like what and she was watching a lifetime

spk_0 movie and there was a newscaster named Loryelster in it and I was like that's impossible I'm the only

spk_0 Loryelster and we found it and then I looked at the credits of the movie and a friend of mine worked

spk_0 on the movie and then I called him and he said oh yeah we had to clear names and we didn't have time

spk_0 and I knew you wouldn't be mad and Justin and would have been alive at this point probably right

spk_0 possibly it was late in 24 I mean I was they also later they said something like you know Steven

spk_0 Root was on it who's also been in Star Trek and his character's name was Bill Praedy who's the

spk_0 creator of the Big Bang Theory so and also big Star Trek fan he actually wrote a Voyager episode

spk_0 one of my faves so I love it I mean I love seeing an all and there's also great scenes from

spk_0 previous seasons with like Penny Johnson Gerald and Tony Todd together on the phone and I'm just

spk_0 totally imagining their conversation like well I'm Worf's Brothers wife and like well I'm

spk_0 Worf's other brother what I doubt that conversation happened but it's nice to imagine sure

spk_0 anyway on that note that's it thank you for listening we'll see you next week

Robert Duncan McNeill Interview + Star Trek News Roundup

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