Military Money Lessons That Civilians Can’t Afford to Miss | Spencer Reese - E117

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Welcome to Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors, where we believe Benjamin Franklin's

spk_0 advice that an investment in knowledge pays the best interest.

spk_0 Olden finances and in your life.

spk_0 Every episode teaches you personal finance and long-term investing in simple terms.

spk_0 Now here's your host, Jesse Kramer.

spk_0 Welcome to Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors, episode 117.

spk_0 I'm Jesse Kramer.

spk_0 By day, I work at a fiduciary wealth management firm helping clients nationwide.

spk_0 You can learn more at bestinterest.blog-slashwork.

spk_0 The link is in the show notes.

spk_0 And by night, I write the best interest blog and I host this podcast.

spk_0 I help busy professionals and retirees, void mistakes, and grow their wealth

spk_0 by simplifying their investing, their taxes, and their retirement.

spk_0 Later today, I'll be joined by Spencer Reese.

spk_0 Spencer is an Air Force veteran who reached financial independence and now shares advice

spk_0 mainly for other military vets.

spk_0 But it is really interesting how retiring from the military shares so much in common with

spk_0 a more traditional 9-5 retirement, especially when it comes to some of the non-financial

spk_0 aspects of life transitions.

spk_0 You know, life transitions like retirement can be so much harder than they appear on the outside.

spk_0 And we made sure, Spencer and I made sure that even if you're not a military service member

spk_0 or a veteran, you're still going to find a lot of value in Spencer's story and in some of his lessons learned.

spk_0 But first, we have a review of the week.

spk_0 This one is from a he-mojo filter who said meaningful content delivered concisely.

spk_0 Jesse is one of my favorite content creators in the personal finance space.

spk_0 His style is matter-of-fact and straightforward and he explains complex financial concepts

spk_0 in easy to understand language.

spk_0 Jesse helps build confidence through improving financial literacy and he focuses on data and facts,

spk_0 not personal opinions.

spk_0 Well, Mojo, thank you for the kind words and I'll be happy to send you a super soft podcast

spk_0 t-shirt just drop me an email to jesseatbestinterest.blog.

spk_0 And listeners, if you have a question or concern or feedback that I can answer,

spk_0 especially for a future, ask me anything AMA episode.

spk_0 You can send those questions to my email jesseatbestinterest.blog.

spk_0 Before we get to Spencer today, I want to share two bigger thoughts with you.

spk_0 The first one is about the only constant in retirement and the second one is about something

spk_0 that I'm calling the retirees financial to catalog.

spk_0 Your only retirement constant will be change.

spk_0 It's like that Pete Seeker song or the bird song, you know, to everything there's a season,

spk_0 turn, turn, turn, turn.

spk_0 A time to weep, a time to laugh, a time to mourn, and a time to dance.

spk_0 A time to mourn.

spk_0 Some of us retire at 70 others retire at 40, but no matter your retirement age,

spk_0 your retirement will change over time.

spk_0 It evolves.

spk_0 It's not just a point in time, it's not just one age, it's decades long and it's going to change.

spk_0 At times, it's literally seasonal.

spk_0 I think of my parents.

spk_0 My parents love to garden, so spring through late summer,

spk_0 it's their number one retirement pastime is out in the gardens.

spk_0 But their daily schedule undergoes a change, a big change in winter, you know,

spk_0 turn, turn, turn, like the bird said.

spk_0 Now, what else changes?

spk_0 Well, you get older, pretty obviously.

spk_0 I was speaking to a client recently about the go-go, the slow-go, and the no-go phases of a

spk_0 typical retirement.

spk_0 They took a trip to Europe together.

spk_0 And after they got back, in Italy, I think they were on their feet for five or six hours a day,

spk_0 putting in six, eight, ten miles walking a day.

spk_0 And they felt a little less go-go and a little more slow-go than before.

spk_0 And that trip kind of brought it into focus.

spk_0 What else changes?

spk_0 Well, everyone else gets older too.

spk_0 I think this is a really interesting one.

spk_0 You know, your grandkids, I've seen this in my own life with my parents,

spk_0 and they're grandchildren, my daughter, my nieces and nephews.

spk_0 The grandkids go from diapers to kindergarten,

spk_0 and next thing you know, they're kind of too cool for you.

spk_0 And then they're off to college and beyond,

spk_0 all in the span of your retirement.

spk_0 Your own children are probably going to go from young professionals to married with kids.

spk_0 And eventually, they'll become empty nesters all within your retirement.

spk_0 So these people, these other people in your life, they are changing too.

spk_0 Your health rhythms will change.

spk_0 Even if you start retirement feeling great, your body changes.

spk_0 A bum knee will alter those daily walks, will alter those golf habits.

spk_0 A doctor's order will shift your diet or exercise.

spk_0 For some retirees, the biggest health change is simply more doctor's appointments in the first place,

spk_0 filling your calendar.

spk_0 Friendships and social circles will change.

spk_0 Friends will move away, chasing their grandkids.

spk_0 Other friends are going to pass away.

spk_0 Other people might actually surprise you and get closer.

spk_0 Your people will change over time.

spk_0 And with that comes new rhythms of connection or loneliness,

spk_0 especially if you don't adapt.

spk_0 From the stacking Benjamin show,

spk_0 Joe Saul Seahe frequently shares a story about his friend,

spk_0 whose main goal was to retire to the mountains.

spk_0 Which I think a lot of us can relate to.

spk_0 The mountains are beautiful.

spk_0 I'm going to retire to the mountains.

spk_0 So he had decades of hard work, years of planning,

spk_0 and he made it happen.

spk_0 He retired to a beautiful home in the remote mountains.

spk_0 And then within months of doing so,

spk_0 he realized he had completely isolated himself.

spk_0 Physically isolated himself from all his previous social circles.

spk_0 And he couldn't wait to undo his choice of moving to the mountains

spk_0 and move back to civilization.

spk_0 So that's a pretty interesting anecdote.

spk_0 Finances and markets change too.

spk_0 You know, the 4% rule, it's only a guidepost.

spk_0 Your retirement withdrawal strategy will change over time.

spk_0 It has to.

spk_0 It has to be dynamic.

spk_0 Markets don't move in a straight line.

spk_0 Inflation, tax laws change.

spk_0 Even just your own spending patterns will shift

spk_0 and will change how you approach your money.

spk_0 Your community and environment will change too.

spk_0 Your neighborhood, your town, your city will change.

spk_0 A coffee shop closes, a new park opens.

spk_0 Neighbors will come and go.

spk_0 Or maybe you move yourself.

spk_0 Downsizing, moving closer to family,

spk_0 chasing warmer winters, becoming a snow bird.

spk_0 Our neighbors moved just last month.

spk_0 They're probably 70 years old.

spk_0 And they're still in our town.

spk_0 But they just wanted to downsize out of the family home

spk_0 where they raised their kids, you know,

spk_0 the 2500 square foot home.

spk_0 Into a smaller 1300 square foot,

spk_0 one level ranch style home.

spk_0 Very common.

spk_0 And then what's kind of funny,

spk_0 the new neighbors who moved in after them

spk_0 are also retirees.

spk_0 They're also about 70 years old.

spk_0 They're moving six hours north from New Jersey.

spk_0 Why?

spk_0 Well, to chase after three of their adult kids

spk_0 who happen to settle in greater Rochester.

spk_0 And they're multiple grandkids, all of whom are close by.

spk_0 So anyway, different reasons for moving all for retirees

spk_0 in this particular case.

spk_0 Your energy, your priorities will change.

spk_0 Your mileage may vary.

spk_0 At 60, you'll be up for adventure.

spk_0 At 70, a slower routine starts to feel better.

spk_0 And at 80, you're only focusing on simplicity.

spk_0 You know, again, your mileage may vary on that.

spk_0 But the point is the things that you want

spk_0 from retirement will evolve.

spk_0 And that's not a bad thing.

spk_0 The juice you squeeze from daily life will also ebb and flow.

spk_0 And it will, it'll ebb more than flow as time goes on.

spk_0 Technology certainly changes.

spk_0 I know it sounds like a small thing, but it's pretty huge.

spk_0 And it's probably bigger than it's ever been before.

spk_0 I mean, just look at this example.

spk_0 How long do you want your retirement to be?

spk_0 I think would a fair number fall between 20 years

spk_0 and 40 years?

spk_0 Well, let's use that range.

spk_0 The worldwide web is 35 years old.

spk_0 Wi-Fi is 25 years old.

spk_0 It became commonplace, at least here in the USA,

spk_0 starting about 20 years ago.

spk_0 iPhones are 18 years old.

spk_0 Simple stuff like GPS, maps, FaceTime video calls,

spk_0 streaming TV shows, even text message.

spk_0 These weren't like proliferated ubiquitous

spk_0 popular technologies until the last 10 to 15 years.

spk_0 So technology will keep changing by leaps and bounds

spk_0 all within the timeframe of your single retirement.

spk_0 So adapting to that technology can either expand

spk_0 or limit your personal world.

spk_0 Purpose and meaning can change a lot too for retirees.

spk_0 Some retirees discover purpose in volunteering,

spk_0 in mentoring, in a faith community.

spk_0 Others lose steam after the honeymoon period

spk_0 of their retirement, and they need to reinvent

spk_0 some way to find fulfillment.

spk_0 And again, 20 or 30 or 40 years is a really long time.

spk_0 That fulfillment cycle can turn and turn and turn over.

spk_0 And again, we all know people who have reinvented themselves

spk_0 throughout their 20s and 30s and 40s.

spk_0 And I don't think that ceases just because

spk_0 we're in our 50s and 60s and beyond.

spk_0 It might slow down for some people,

spk_0 but it speeds up for others.

spk_0 It rarely halts altogether.

spk_0 So no matter your age, no matter your retirement plans,

spk_0 I believe the only constant in retirement will be changed.

spk_0 And now for this other idea I alluded to before,

spk_0 the retirees financial de-Cathalon.

spk_0 While that first little stands

spk_0 of the first little topic focused more

spk_0 on the softer side of retirement,

spk_0 this is gonna focus on some of the nuts and bolts

spk_0 finances of retirement.

spk_0 If you're not familiar with Peter Atia,

spk_0 that's how I'm gonna start this little story.

spk_0 Peter Atia is a doctor, a scientist,

spk_0 an author and all around health advocate.

spk_0 And he came up with this concept

spk_0 that he calls the centenarian de-Cathalon.

spk_0 And it's a framework that asks,

spk_0 what 10 physical tasks do I wanna be able to do

spk_0 at age 100, centenarian 100?

spk_0 So very lofty.

spk_0 What 10 things do I wanna be able to do at age 100?

spk_0 And from there, Peter Atia works backward,

spk_0 identifying the strength and mobility and endurance

spk_0 that we need today at our current age

spk_0 in order for us to kind of age gracefully

spk_0 into those goals in the future at age 100.

spk_0 So this de-Cathalon reframes fitness

spk_0 as preparation for longevity and for independence,

spk_0 not necessarily for pure performance or aesthetics.

spk_0 The idea is kind of simple.

spk_0 We train today for the functional life

spk_0 that we want decades from now.

spk_0 And my thought was, well, can we do the same thing

spk_0 for retirement, retirement finances?

spk_0 What are the 10 most important aspects

spk_0 of a financially sound retirement?

spk_0 And how do we start preparing for that future today?

spk_0 So the 10 items in my retiree to Catholic,

spk_0 what matters in retirement?

spk_0 It's crucial to focus on, yes, family, lifestyle,

spk_0 purpose, all those other soft aspects of retirement.

spk_0 If you haven't listened to episode 106 of this podcast,

spk_0 it's a really good one to listen to

spk_0 that focuses heavily on that side of retirement.

spk_0 In fact, most post-retires actually end up realizing

spk_0 that the soft stuff of retirement

spk_0 is much more important than the financial nuts and bolts.

spk_0 But nevertheless, I'm going to focus on the finances

spk_0 for today for this retiree to Catholic.

spk_0 The 10 nuts and bolts tasks that we should start today

spk_0 and work on throughout retirement.

spk_0 The first one is to understand your future paycheck

spk_0 or, you know, in quotes paycheck.

spk_0 Your cash inflow during your career

spk_0 is really easy to understand.

spk_0 It's mostly your paycheck.

spk_0 It's really simple.

spk_0 But obviously, there's a significant change in retirement.

spk_0 No more paycheck.

spk_0 All pre-retires need to understand

spk_0 where their future retirement paycheck will be coming from.

spk_0 Some people assume it's 100% from Social Security.

spk_0 Other people assume it'll come 100%

spk_0 from their 401K savings.

spk_0 The truth is usually more nuanced.

spk_0 Your retirement paycheck will likely have multiple sources.

spk_0 It will change over time.

spk_0 It'll be unique to you.

spk_0 It should be optimized for your lifestyle,

spk_0 for your long-term sustainability,

spk_0 for tax minimization, other things like that.

spk_0 And even if you're years away

spk_0 from pulling the retirement trigger,

spk_0 it's not too early to consider

spk_0 where your retirement paycheck will come from.

spk_0 On that note, if you're interested,

spk_0 I wrote a free PDF white paper.

spk_0 It's called the Step-by-Step Guide

spk_0 to building your retirement paycheck.

spk_0 And if you sign up for my email list,

spk_0 you can get a free copy of that PDF

spk_0 sent straight to your inbox.

spk_0 You can sign up a best interest app blog at the homepage,

spk_0 or you can follow the link in the show notes

spk_0 to this article, the retirees financial decathlon,

spk_0 and there are multiple places in the article

spk_0 where you can sign up,

spk_0 you can download your free copy of the Step-by-Step Guide

spk_0 to building your retirement paycheck.

spk_0 But now onto event number two of our decathlon,

spk_0 allocate and build your portfolio.

spk_0 It's fine advice to say, just save more money,

spk_0 but we all need to dig a little bit deeper.

spk_0 How much should we save?

spk_0 How do we allocate those dollars

spk_0 into different asset classes, stock, bonds, et cetera?

spk_0 And then why do we make those allocation decisions?

spk_0 What assumptions should we make for future returns

spk_0 on investment, like how will our money grow?

spk_0 And then how do those allocation

spk_0 and growth assumptions change over time?

spk_0 Your portfolio will be a significant part

spk_0 of your retirement lifestyle, your retirement finances.

spk_0 It might be the only part of your retirement paycheck

spk_0 for a few years if you plan on retiring early, right?

spk_0 You won't be able to turn on social security yet.

spk_0 So your portfolio is going to be the only,

spk_0 probably one of the only inputs into your retirement paycheck.

spk_0 So we need to focus on the allocation

spk_0 and the structure of our portfolio.

spk_0 Event number three in this decathlon

spk_0 is to understand your social security strategy.

spk_0 On its face, you have to decide when

spk_0 and how to claim social security

spk_0 for a maximum lifetime benefit.

spk_0 But yes, it's more nuanced than that.

spk_0 So I suggest asking a lot of different questions.

spk_0 I wrote an article, I'll link in the show notes,

spk_0 it's called, when should I take social security?

spk_0 And I suggest asking questions like,

spk_0 what's your family health history?

spk_0 Should you delay social security in order to make it

spk_0 into more of a longevity insurance for your plan?

spk_0 Do you plan on part-time work during retirement?

spk_0 How might spousal benefits and or survivor benefits impact

spk_0 your family and your specific social security strategy?

spk_0 How risky, how threatening is the sequence

spk_0 of return risk for you?

spk_0 And will early social security claiming

spk_0 actually alleviate that risk?

spk_0 Maybe just one of the basic ones,

spk_0 one of the more basic ones is

spk_0 is social security like this fundamental pillar

spk_0 of your retirement?

spk_0 Or if it disappeared, do you have enough money saved up

spk_0 that you don't really need social security

spk_0 in the first place?

spk_0 It's not that important.

spk_0 All those kind of questions can help us

spk_0 provide more color in determining

spk_0 when you should take social security

spk_0 and what your family social security strategy needs to be.

spk_0 So that's the third event of this decathlon.

spk_0 The fourth event is to develop a tax-efficient

spk_0 saving and drawdown strategy.

spk_0 There is a generally accepted retirement withdrawal order

spk_0 of operations to minimize retirement taxation.

spk_0 If you're curious what that generally accepted order

spk_0 of operations is, I suggest reading the article

spk_0 that I link in the show notes called

spk_0 Your Retirement with Draw Order of Operations.

spk_0 But it begs the question, is there a tax-efficient

spk_0 accumulation strategy?

spk_0 Yes, but it involves forecasting some uncertain futures,

spk_0 especially around tax rates and investment returns,

spk_0 and then acting now on that limited information.

spk_0 That's why the best strategies are kind of,

spk_0 it's a dynamic year-by-year evaluation.

spk_0 It's a decision tree rooted in what we know now,

spk_0 but then branching out to evolve based on how today's

spk_0 facts might change.

spk_0 So you should ask yourself these kind of questions every year.

spk_0 What's my income and what's my marginal tax rate this year?

spk_0 What tax advantage accounts are available to me this year?

spk_0 What does my current tax diversification look like?

spk_0 Meaning do I have monies in traditional pre-tax buckets

spk_0 in Roth, Post-tax buckets, and in taxable buckets?

spk_0 So that's that tax diversification.

spk_0 What do I expect a future tax rates to be?

spk_0 For me personally, based on my income, future income,

spk_0 but also for the broader tax system.

spk_0 And then last, what non-tax considerations

spk_0 might impact these decisions, things like liquidity,

spk_0 simplicity, employer matching, getting inheritance, et cetera.

spk_0 So all of those play into developing a tax-efficient

spk_0 saving and a tax-efficient drawdown strategy.

spk_0 The fifth event in this to Catalon

spk_0 is to plant for health care costs.

spk_0 In episode 108 of personal finance for long-term investors,

spk_0 I answered Adelaissaner's AMA question

spk_0 by diving deep into health care costs before,

spk_0 during, and then after retirement,

spk_0 meaning Medicare, kind of the long-term play

spk_0 of retirement health care.

spk_0 Because yes, retirement health care

spk_0 can be a scary proposition,

spk_0 but I would urge you to consider this.

spk_0 Millions of people have walked this retirement path

spk_0 before you, and their lessons, good, bad, or ugly lessons

spk_0 are out there for you to learn from.

spk_0 More specifically, we do know, it's been figured out

spk_0 how health care costs fit into a broader retirement financial plan.

spk_0 That information is readily available.

spk_0 So the work that remains for you is to consider

spk_0 how you'll tackle that question in your specific life.

spk_0 The answers are out there.

spk_0 We just need to put in the work to consider

spk_0 how they apply to our lives.

spk_0 Event number six in the to Catalon

spk_0 is to make an estate plan.

spk_0 And I'd ask you, is preparing for retirement

spk_0 and preparing for death?

spk_0 Are those two separate tasks?

spk_0 Ultimately, I see them both as thinking ahead

spk_0 and doing so quite prudently.

spk_0 So as you age, as your family grows,

spk_0 as your balance sheet becomes more complicated,

spk_0 it becomes increasingly essential

spk_0 to review and revise your estate plan.

spk_0 Are your loved ones protected from the vicissitudes of fate?

spk_0 Who will receive assets upon your death?

spk_0 And in what amounts?

spk_0 And with what stipulations?

spk_0 Are those gifts tax optimized?

spk_0 Those kind of questions.

spk_0 Do your loved ones know about your plans?

spk_0 Have you communicated with them?

spk_0 And if not, why not?

spk_0 All those questions are really important.

spk_0 And I can't emphasize enough the importance

spk_0 of making and editing, reviewing,

spk_0 and revising your estate plan.

spk_0 Event number seven is to change

spk_0 or alter your portfolio over time.

spk_0 So again, one of my foundational financial planning

spk_0 and investment management principles

spk_0 is to think about goals first

spk_0 and then timelines to those goals

spk_0 and then the appropriate risk for those timelines

spk_0 and then the appropriate assets based on that risk level.

spk_0 So what are the goals for your money?

spk_0 What are your preferred or required timelines

spk_0 to reach those goals?

spk_0 How much risk can you afford to take

spk_0 across those timelines?

spk_0 And then what assets can you invest in

spk_0 based on that amount of risk?

spk_0 As you age, your goals might change.

spk_0 Your timelines will undoubtedly change.

spk_0 I mean, time is going by.

spk_0 It's the only constant, right?

spk_0 And your portfolio should adjust in concert

spk_0 with those facts.

spk_0 Surprisingly, you might even reach a point

spk_0 where your timelines are no longer actually your timelines.

spk_0 Instead, you'll invest based on your estate plan,

spk_0 based on the timelines of your descendants of your heirs

spk_0 or of charities that you plan on requesting money to.

spk_0 It's not uncommon to see a person's recommended risk

spk_0 start high in their younger years,

spk_0 glide lower into retirement,

spk_0 but then eventually increase again

spk_0 toward the end of their life.

spk_0 Event number eight is to stress test your plan.

spk_0 Will your financial plan survive market volatility,

spk_0 inflation, longevity, or the other curveballs

spk_0 that life can throw your way?

spk_0 It's worth asking those kind of what if questions?

spk_0 There are various software packages

spk_0 and various professional experts

spk_0 who can help you stress test your plan.

spk_0 Event number nine is to consolidate and simplify.

spk_0 What's the point of compounding wealth

spk_0 if it also comes with compounding stress?

spk_0 Most retirees see a big psychic benefit

spk_0 from simplifying their financial lives.

spk_0 It's a bit like cleaning your house.

spk_0 Now, what's the best way to do it?

spk_0 Probably by keeping it clean in the first place,

spk_0 but if you've come to the point

spk_0 where your financial plan, your retirement plan,

spk_0 your financial picture is a little bit out of control,

spk_0 there are many ways to consolidate, simplify,

spk_0 and just end up with a less stressful,

spk_0 a more simple plan going forward.

spk_0 And then event number 10 of our decaflon,

spk_0 it's a one word event.

spk_0 I'll pause and let you take a little guess

spk_0 at what this one word is.

spk_0 The word is spend.

spk_0 The last event on the retiree decaflon

spk_0 is to spend your money.

spk_0 Spending and saving are these two separate muscles

spk_0 and too often a frugal retiree

spk_0 will enter their golden years

spk_0 with a massive savings muscle

spk_0 but with atrophied spending muscles.

spk_0 So an important thing to do,

spk_0 even before retirement,

spk_0 is to start flexing, start exercising your spending muscle.

spk_0 If you feel like a habitual saver,

spk_0 if spending money gives you anxiety,

spk_0 if your only pair of pants is 17 years old

spk_0 and fraying at the seams,

spk_0 spend start now.

spk_0 You don't have to go crazy,

spk_0 but you shouldn't wait until retirement.

spk_0 You can go out and buy a new pair of pants.

spk_0 So thank you for listening to that retirees

spk_0 financial decaflon.

spk_0 I hope it was interesting and entertaining for you.

spk_0 Here's a quick ad and then we'll get back to the show.

spk_0 You probably know that I love listener inspired content

spk_0 but this is my first listener inspired advertisement.

spk_0 Frank asked me in short,

spk_0 Jesse, is there a best time to start working with you

spk_0 as a client and the short answer is yes.

spk_0 There are two ideal times.

spk_0 One is at the beginning of a new year

spk_0 for probably some pretty obvious reasons,

spk_0 but the second one is right about now,

spk_0 September and October.

spk_0 It's the perfect time for year-end tax planning

spk_0 to ensure you find the correct balance of

spk_0 rough conversions, tax gain or tax loss harvesting,

spk_0 making charitable gifts, spreading out

spk_0 any portfolio changes over multiple tax years,

spk_0 or whatever other tax dials we can turn for you.

spk_0 Working backward from the December 31st tax deadline,

spk_0 the time to start those initial conversations is right now,

spk_0 August, September, maybe into early October.

spk_0 You want to give yourself and us enough runway

spk_0 to make sure we get this right for you.

spk_0 So if you're interested in starting a conversation

spk_0 with me and my colleagues,

spk_0 you can go to bestinterest.blog,

spk_0 Backslashwork and fill out the form there.

spk_0 Again, that's on my blog on the work with Jesse Page.

spk_0 The address is bestinterest.blog,

spk_0 Backslashwork and fill out the form.

spk_0 And with that, we're now going to introduce

spk_0 Spencer Reese onto the podcast.

spk_0 Spencer separated from the US Air Force in 2022

spk_0 after 12 years of active duty

spk_0 and he helps military service members mainly

spk_0 and their families through his book,

spk_0 his podcast, his course and website,

spk_0 which all fall under the branding umbrella

spk_0 of the military money manual.

spk_0 So if you hear a stay military money manual,

spk_0 that is really Spencer's brand,

spk_0 his book, his podcast, his course and his website

spk_0 all fall under that brand.

spk_0 And again, all those media channels are dedicated

spk_0 to enriching military families,

spk_0 helping them reach financial independence

spk_0 as quickly as possible.

spk_0 I know most of my audience,

spk_0 you're probably not in the military.

spk_0 You're not a military veteran.

spk_0 There are so many parallels,

spk_0 especially when it comes to the life transitions

spk_0 and you'll hear Spencer Knight dig into that today.

spk_0 So without further ado,

spk_0 hear Spencer Reese from the military money manual.

spk_0 You'll hear Spencer Reese from the military money manual.

spk_0 Spencer, I'm glad we're able to do this man

spk_0 and something that I was thinking about.

spk_0 One potential place to start this conversation is that,

spk_0 you know, my listeners are used to me hearing,

spk_0 hearing me say that financial planning

spk_0 is a function of specifics, right?

spk_0 It's your life, your family, your income,

spk_0 whatever is unique and specific to you.

spk_0 But to that end, I'm thinking about your expertise

spk_0 in the world that you're coming from,

spk_0 some of the military world where there are some,

spk_0 like it's kind of funny to think about it

spk_0 as like unique generalities.

spk_0 So it's like a generality to military service members,

spk_0 but it's this very unique thing that separates

spk_0 military service members and their finances

spk_0 from say the civilians, the general populace.

spk_0 So at some point, and maybe we can do it right off the start,

spk_0 I mean, what are some stories that you have

spk_0 when it just comes to some of those unique financial aspects

spk_0 of military service?

spk_0 Is that too broad a place to start?

spk_0 No, that's a great place to start.

spk_0 I think, Jesse, thanks for the softball start there.

spk_0 We were talking about this just before we hit record,

spk_0 but there is a universality between civilian money

spk_0 and military money.

spk_0 The name of your podcast, you know, long term investing,

spk_0 even that's what I've been talking about

spk_0 over my website and my podcast for years now,

spk_0 but the vehicles that we use to do that

spk_0 might be a little bit different, you know,

spk_0 we might say TSP, Thrish Savings Plan instead of 401k,

spk_0 but the basics of it, the fundamentals of it

spk_0 are exactly the same as a civilian 401k.

spk_0 So what are the big fundamental differences

spk_0 that you'll see on the military side?

spk_0 Well, one thing is that you might have,

spk_0 on the enlisted side, you might have lower income

spk_0 for a longer period of time.

spk_0 So that, so you might have to adjust basically

spk_0 your expectations if you're gonna stay enlisted

spk_0 for a full 20 year career,

spk_0 especially compared to an officer in the same branch,

spk_0 you're just gonna be making a lot less money

spk_0 and probably towards the end of your career,

spk_0 the difference might be as much as half.

spk_0 You might be only making 50% as an officer.

spk_0 So that's one thing there is this,

spk_0 you have to kind of cage your expectations

spk_0 of your income potential while you're on the enlisted side.

spk_0 But that being said, there's still a tremendous opportunity

spk_0 to live below your means and save and invest

spk_0 and build wealth while you're on active duty

spk_0 to set yourself up for a very nice transition

spk_0 to the civilian sector.

spk_0 I think one of the other things that really comes up

spk_0 with military service members is a lot of times

spk_0 it's all they know, right?

spk_0 They join right out of high school, right out of college.

spk_0 It's their first and their only real adult job

spk_0 for maybe just one in less men right two to four years

spk_0 or maybe even longer like pilots have a 10 year commitment

spk_0 and that starts after the training's done.

spk_0 So now you're looking at 12 years

spk_0 and that's after you graduate university.

spk_0 So you're in your mid 30s before you ever have an opportunity

spk_0 to really think about what you're doing

spk_0 and what you wanna do next.

spk_0 What kind of day to day stuff is covered

spk_0 in the military Spencer?

spk_0 I mean shelter, right?

spk_0 I mean, I'm literally in the barracks.

spk_0 Is that covered food?

spk_0 So for the enlisted, for the officers,

spk_0 they might be getting maybe lower pay

spk_0 than maybe some of their corporate civilian counterparts.

spk_0 I don't know, but then what parts of the lifestyle

spk_0 are actually covered by the government by the military?

spk_0 Yeah, so you're always gonna have your housing covered

spk_0 in some way.

spk_0 So if you're provided government housing,

spk_0 whether that's the barracks or housing on base,

spk_0 you're gonna have your housing covered by the government.

spk_0 And if there isn't housing available on base

spk_0 or if you're high enough rank or you have or you're married,

spk_0 this is another interesting factor of military service

spk_0 is especially on the younger enlisted side,

spk_0 there's a big push to get married.

spk_0 Because as soon as you get married,

spk_0 you get to move out of the barracks

spk_0 and you get to go live in your own house

spk_0 and live your own life.

spk_0 So that creates this financial incentive

spk_0 and your pay goes up too,

spk_0 because you'll start collecting BAH basic allowance

spk_0 for housing with a dependent,

spk_0 which is higher than the basic allowance

spk_0 for housing without a dependent.

spk_0 There's this financial incentive to get married,

spk_0 which is probably much more intense

spk_0 than the pressure a civilian might feel,

spk_0 where you might get a,

spk_0 there's a tax advantage, right?

spk_0 Married filing joint lay versus single,

spk_0 but most people aren't really thinking about

spk_0 the income tax implications of getting married.

spk_0 Although listeners of our show or two shows

spk_0 might be thinking about that.

spk_0 So your housing's always covered.

spk_0 On the enlisted side,

spk_0 not times you're in the access to a chow hall

spk_0 or some kind of food usually discounted

spk_0 and you either get a card, a meal card,

spk_0 everybody receives a basic allowance for sustenance of BAS

spk_0 and that's only like a couple hundred dollars a month though.

spk_0 But for most,

spk_0 this is another interesting thing is

spk_0 even though enlisted pay might be quite low

spk_0 compared to their civilian counterparts,

spk_0 it can be quite good to someone who comes in

spk_0 with only a high school education

spk_0 and you get to learn a skill, you get to learn a trade

spk_0 and all that's paid for.

spk_0 And then oh, by the way,

spk_0 you're gonna get a GI bill as well.

spk_0 So now if you wanna go to college, you can do that.

spk_0 But you can also just go to college

spk_0 while you're on active duty.

spk_0 There's that thing called tuition assistance

spk_0 and that will pay for the number change,

spk_0 but let's say up to like $4,000 a year of college tuition.

spk_0 So there's an opportunity,

spk_0 there's a tremendous opportunity to essentially upskill yourself

spk_0 and make yourself more valuable.

spk_0 And you can use those skills while you're on active duty

spk_0 or you can transition to this civilian world eventually,

spk_0 apply those skills, especially if you're an IT

spk_0 or any kind of computer connected cyber field,

spk_0 you can get all your certificates

spk_0 and then you can come out and you can go walk straight

spk_0 into a Microsoft app all or any Google,

spk_0 any of the big IT companies in the world

spk_0 they'll be glad to have you because you're qualified

spk_0 and you've been doing it for real

spk_0 while you've been on active duty.

spk_0 So yeah, so there's a lot of things

spk_0 that the government covers and then there's a lot of things

spk_0 because like on the enlist inside,

spk_0 the classic mistake that a lot of people make

spk_0 is they buy too much car because they say,

spk_0 interesting.

spk_0 I've got my housing covered, I've got a study paycheck

spk_0 and I want to go get the 2026 Camaro that's $80,000

spk_0 and it's right out the lot.

spk_0 And oh, the guy gave me a great deal of 96 month loan,

spk_0 only at 19% interest and you're like,

spk_0 oh boy, you just paid $200,000 for $80,000 car.

spk_0 Yeah, you're in trouble.

spk_0 So that's the interesting thing is,

spk_0 but it happens on the officers side too.

spk_0 We call the Lieutenant Mobile

spk_0 where as soon as people graduate in the Air Force Academy

spk_0 or any of the military academies or ROTC,

spk_0 they think, oh, I got an officer drives a nice car.

spk_0 I got to go buy the BMW or I think right now

spk_0 it's the Toyota Tacoma that are just snapping them up

spk_0 and there goes another $80,000 on a vehicle

spk_0 and it's like, okay, I mean, if that's what you want to do,

spk_0 but can I interest you in something that's a little bit cheaper

spk_0 and explain to you the value of compounding interest

spk_0 and all of a sudden it's like, as an officer,

spk_0 you could easily be a millionaire in 10 years,

spk_0 but a lot of people don't think about that.

spk_0 It sounds like you're kind of pointing it out,

spk_0 but I'd never really thought about it before.

spk_0 There is such a natural hierarchy of rank in the military.

spk_0 I mean, is there some sort of like keeping up with the lieutenants,

spk_0 keeping up with the kernels, especially as you move up

spk_0 in the ranks and you kind of start to look around,

spk_0 do you feel like you need to spend more money

spk_0 to keep up with the equally ranked officers?

spk_0 It goes both ways.

spk_0 I think some people see that as the game to play

spk_0 and they keep up-up-up-up-ranking the vehicle

spk_0 or the kids go to the Montessori school instead of the school

spk_0 on base and the lifestyle creep is real

spk_0 and whether it's because they're comparing themselves

spk_0 to their peers, I mean, the crazy thing is,

spk_0 it's the most transparent organization in the world.

spk_0 Everybody knows how much everybody is paid.

spk_0 Now, if there's a civilian spouse,

spk_0 you don't know how much they're getting paid,

spk_0 but the pay scale is set by Congress

spk_0 and is publicly available.

spk_0 So you know how much you as a captain's making,

spk_0 you know how much your kernel boss is making,

spk_0 you know how much the airman that's working for you is making.

spk_0 And what I find is that it usually splits around,

spk_0 on the officer side around the captain rank

spk_0 where you have some people realize like,

spk_0 this is a stupid status game that I don't need to play

spk_0 and I can play a different game.

spk_0 And those are the people who rank up

spk_0 and eventually they're the kernels

spk_0 who are driving the 20-year-old Honda Civic

spk_0 and they're like, I got nothing to prove.

spk_0 I get all my status and recognition from my job, right?

spk_0 And from my rank or from what I do for the organization

spk_0 and I don't need a Porsche or BMW 7 series to show off.

spk_0 A lot of times the cheapest, radius-looking car

spk_0 in the parking lot is the commander's car.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 This isn't a game I want to play.

spk_0 But like I said, it does split

spk_0 and so you have some people who say,

spk_0 okay now I'm starting to make,

spk_0 it's about captain where you're starting to make six figures

spk_0 as an officer over $100,000 a year.

spk_0 And there are some people who are like,

spk_0 okay now I'm making the real money

spk_0 and I can really start upgrading my lifestyle.

spk_0 And you know it's crazy, but we've had people,

spk_0 we've talked to people who have listened to the podcast

spk_0 and they've been in as officers for 10 years

spk_0 or 15 years or almost even 20 years

spk_0 and they're still living paycheck to paycheck.

spk_0 And you just want to like grab them and be like,

spk_0 what are you doing?

spk_0 Like if they're not stressed about it, okay fine,

spk_0 whatever, but they're always stressed about it, right?

spk_0 There's never someone who's living paycheck to paycheck

spk_0 that is enjoying that situation

spk_0 when the car repair bill comes in

spk_0 and you're like, I have negative $10

spk_0 in my checking account, how am I supposed to pay for this?

spk_0 Where do you find in those cases?

spk_0 Where's the money going?

spk_0 Cause I mean, we talked about the cars,

spk_0 but from the lay person, right?

spk_0 Here I am, the ignorant lay person looking in,

spk_0 I think to myself, well, most of the, you know,

spk_0 if we think of the big three is transportation, food,

spk_0 and housing, well two of those three are covered

spk_0 or at least covered in large part.

spk_0 So then, I mean, is there just a lot of like,

spk_0 spending on toys for lack of a better term?

spk_0 Or where do you see that money is usually going?

spk_0 Yeah, toys, lifestyle, alcohol maybe.

spk_0 Yeah, vacations possibly.

spk_0 You know, I'm spending on the kids or the family,

spk_0 but like you said earlier, you know,

spk_0 with financial planning and being a very individualized sport,

spk_0 the reasons people get into trouble

spk_0 is always individualized, right?

spk_0 And most of the time, it's just because

spk_0 there's a lack of communication with the spouse

spk_0 and or there's a lack of vision for what, I say spouse,

spk_0 but I could be a single person as well

spk_0 where they just don't have a vision for their life

spk_0 or they've never had a role model.

spk_0 Usually that's what it is.

spk_0 You know, it's usually money was not a topic

spk_0 that you talked about at home

spk_0 and then you just, you don't know any different

spk_0 and so you just keep doing it

spk_0 and people tend to treat money as something that comes

spk_0 and then something that goes

spk_0 and they don't realize that all you need to do

spk_0 is carve off five, 10, 15% of that stream

spk_0 and invest it in the long term

spk_0 and let compounding interests go to work.

spk_0 And nobody's ever sat down and taught them that.

spk_0 If you could, that's why I started the podcast

spk_0 and started the website and wrote the book

spk_0 was because I wanted to be that resource of look,

spk_0 like here's what to do and also here's why you do it

spk_0 because I think a lot of times people are like,

spk_0 why would I save more than 5% of my TSP?

spk_0 It's only matched up to 5%.

spk_0 You just wanna show them and be like,

spk_0 look, living paycheck to paycheck is painful

spk_0 and not having money in the bank means that you don't have

spk_0 options and so when you have more options,

spk_0 you have more freedom.

spk_0 In general, you're happier and if that's not

spk_0 the game we're playing, then that's fine.

spk_0 We can play a different game, but for most people,

spk_0 I mean, that's really what they want, right?

spk_0 They want freedom, they want choices, they want happiness.

spk_0 And so do their spouses and thinking back,

spk_0 you mentioned something in that answer Spencer

spk_0 about communication with spouses and again,

spk_0 forgive my lack of nomenclature,

spk_0 but whether it's a deployment or active duty,

spk_0 if those are not synonyms, you can probably

spk_0 inform me and my audience

spk_0 and sound exactly what those mean,

spk_0 but I think to myself, well boy, if someone is spending,

spk_0 it's one thing that they're living on base with their spouse.

spk_0 But what if two spouses are a world apart

spk_0 because one of them is deployed and now all of a sudden,

spk_0 you still have, I mean, obviously,

spk_0 they have bigger fish to fry at the moment

spk_0 than thinking probably about their household finances

spk_0 if they're deployed, but someone has to be thinking about it

spk_0 and now you have this challenge and communication.

spk_0 I mean, did you live through that yourself

spk_0 or are you two have stories to share from that angle?

spk_0 The story I would share is,

spk_0 from my personal experience, it became positive,

spk_0 but initially when my wife and I got married,

spk_0 I'd only been in on active duty for a year

spk_0 and I was still in pilot training.

spk_0 So I was still going through my initial training course.

spk_0 So I wasn't even a real, I didn't have my wings,

spk_0 I wasn't a real pilot yet.

spk_0 And I kind of showed her like how I was budgeting

spk_0 and like how much money we had coming in

spk_0 and how much money we had going out.

spk_0 I was living paycheck to paycheck.

spk_0 Because she would be like, okay, well,

spk_0 we just got paid $1,000 and I'm like, right,

spk_0 but I have to pay off the credit card bill

spk_0 from last month, which was $1,000.

spk_0 And she's like, so we have no money.

spk_0 I was like, no, no, no, like we're going to get

spk_0 another $1,000 in two weeks.

spk_0 My phrase was always just wait till next paycheck.

spk_0 And she was like, I can't live that.

spk_0 I'm like, that is not going to work for her.

spk_0 Good for her.

spk_0 Well, it's funny because I became the face

spk_0 and the voice behind the military money manual,

spk_0 but if I'm being honest, a lot of the ideas

spk_0 and the motivation came from her.

spk_0 And really, I'll give her a lot of credit

spk_0 for fixing my personal financial situation

spk_0 because I was living paycheck to paycheck.

spk_0 And it was painful.

spk_0 It sucked.

spk_0 And initially we had, I mean, every dollar

spk_0 was allocated to a job, which is good,

spk_0 but we each got $20 every two weeks

spk_0 and that was our spending money.

spk_0 Like that was our, the money that you could decide

spk_0 whatever you wanted to do with it.

spk_0 $20.

spk_0 And this was like, this was not 100 years ago, right?

spk_0 This was 15 years ago.

spk_0 So it didn't go very far and it sucked and it was painful.

spk_0 And a lot of that was because I was obsessed

spk_0 with paying off my student loans.

spk_0 We were putting a lot of, I think, a third of my income

spk_0 essentially towards paying off my student loans.

spk_0 And we did.

spk_0 We paid them off very early.

spk_0 It caused a lot of friction, but it also forced us

spk_0 to learn to communicate really efficiently.

spk_0 And so when I was on deployment,

spk_0 so I deployed three times supporting operations

spk_0 in Iraq and Afghanistan, we were always checking in

spk_0 with each other.

spk_0 We knew how much money we both had access

spk_0 to our checking account.

spk_0 She was home, so she was in charge of the bills.

spk_0 But almost all of our bills were on auto pay.

spk_0 And all of our investments were on automatic transfer.

spk_0 And so there was really other than her just making sure

spk_0 that she didn't spend too much on groceries or going out

spk_0 to eat, her hobbies are relatively cheap.

spk_0 There really wasn't anything for us to talk about.

spk_0 We had set up a system.

spk_0 And I think that's the critical thing

spk_0 that I would want someone who's listening to this podcast,

spk_0 whether they're civilian or military is create systems.

spk_0 And yes, you do need to check in with your partner

spk_0 and you do need to communicate.

spk_0 And especially when you're setting up the system,

spk_0 you need to have that communication and decide,

spk_0 like, what are your values?

spk_0 What is important to you?

spk_0 What do you want to spend your money on together?

spk_0 And how much money do you want for yourself

spk_0 so that you can spend on whatever you want?

spk_0 But when you're setting up those systems,

spk_0 it's extremely important to communicate with each other.

spk_0 And when you go, we used to say, going out the door.

spk_0 That's the phrase that we would use

spk_0 when we were going on deployment.

spk_0 You want to have it set up such that if you don't have

spk_0 communication, you don't have internet for a couple of days

spk_0 or a couple of weeks during the Iraq war,

spk_0 there was guys and gals out in Iraq and Afghanistan

spk_0 who didn't have internet for months,

spk_0 literally just communicating by letters.

spk_0 That can be pretty tough.

spk_0 And today we've got Starlink and all these other services

spk_0 where you'd have to be pretty remote

spk_0 to not have internet contact for like a month, let's say.

spk_0 Even a month, could your plan survive for a month?

spk_0 Like if you went off the grid for 30 days,

spk_0 would your bills be paid?

spk_0 Would your investments happen automatically

spk_0 with a rent be paid?

spk_0 And if they answer to that is no, then it's like,

spk_0 all right, let's talk, let's make a plan.

spk_0 Let's do this out.

spk_0 I mean, it's a great test that month away,

spk_0 that weeks away, that quarter away test.

spk_0 Like I can think about myself

spk_0 or I can think about people I work with

spk_0 and depending on that length of time,

spk_0 I think it's understandable that maybe a few things

spk_0 start to fall through the cracks,

spk_0 but at the very least, it's, you know,

spk_0 can you go for the civilians?

spk_0 Like can you go take that two-week vacation

spk_0 with nothing falling through the cracks?

spk_0 Exactly right.

spk_0 Could you go away for a month?

spk_0 Could you take summer off

spk_0 without anything falling through the cracks?

spk_0 Those are questions worth considering.

spk_0 And I think the closer you get to perfection on that axis,

spk_0 I think more people would be better served

spk_0 if they moved in that direction for sure.

spk_0 But you kind of struck at something there,

spk_0 whether it was early in your relationship,

spk_0 your behavioral differences with your wife

spk_0 or whether it was later on where you said,

spk_0 like, okay, we need to systematize this

spk_0 and try to take some of our behavioral shortcomings

spk_0 just out of the equation altogether.

spk_0 I'd love to dive down that rabbit hole

spk_0 a little bit more, Spencer, with,

spk_0 are there any kind of repeated behavioral traps

spk_0 that you just found, like yes,

spk_0 there are general behavior traps

spk_0 that affect all of us in personal finance

spk_0 and we can all learn a lesson from it,

spk_0 but you see them as just being especially common

spk_0 for military families.

spk_0 I think for military families,

spk_0 the most common traits I see are those of avoiders.

spk_0 So by that I mean, it's usually not a will problem, right?

spk_0 They usually want to be better with money,

spk_0 but it's a skills problem.

spk_0 They never got the training.

spk_0 They never saw it modeled by their family or their parents.

spk_0 And then they marry someone who also doesn't have

spk_0 those skills and probably also has the will,

spk_0 but they just can't bridge the gap

spk_0 because they don't know who to turn to.

spk_0 And I mean, the great thing is the military does offer

spk_0 a lot of free resources to service members.

spk_0 So I'll just throw out a couple of military one-source,

spk_0 so that's sponsored by the Department of Defense.

spk_0 You can go to military one-source,

spk_0 calm I think it is, but just Google it,

spk_0 military one-source, free financial counseling there,

spk_0 specific to your situation.

spk_0 So you'll tell them, hey, this is what we're struggling with,

spk_0 or this is what we want to know about.

spk_0 Like they're not going to give you great investment advice

spk_0 other than you should contribute to your TSP.

spk_0 They're not going to tell you like,

spk_0 what funds to select inside your TSP.

spk_0 If you want to see stuff about that,

spk_0 check out my website, but they will be able to just like

spk_0 have that budget paycheck, that communication,

spk_0 and that, you know, just kind of that initial

spk_0 like ripped a bandaid off moment where you go to your spouse

spk_0 and you say, look, I don't know about this money stuff.

spk_0 I don't think you know this money stuff either,

spk_0 maybe skip that part, but you can just talk about yourself.

spk_0 I want to be more confident with money.

spk_0 In the Air Force, we call it the family,

spk_0 service member and family readiness center,

spk_0 and you can go there and you can sit down

spk_0 with a real person face to face,

spk_0 and they'll have you build a budget,

spk_0 they'll have you talk about, okay,

spk_0 what are the three big expenses

spk_0 of most American households?

spk_0 Housing, transportation and food.

spk_0 And like you said, for the military,

spk_0 well, food's mostly covered,

spk_0 housing's mostly covered unless you're renting something

spk_0 that's way above your housing allowance,

spk_0 and so then your only factor that you really should

spk_0 worry about there is transportation,

spk_0 and so many times military service members

spk_0 make the mistake of buying too much transportation

spk_0 for their rank, for their paycheck,

spk_0 and if they could just not make that one single error,

spk_0 they'd be so much better off.

spk_0 It just have so much more room to maneuver

spk_0 with their money, with their paycheck.

spk_0 That's the kind of the overarching theme I see

spk_0 for military families is it's usually two avoiders

spk_0 who just don't have the skills,

spk_0 and because they're avoiding addressing the money issues,

spk_0 they don't ever get the will really either.

spk_0 So I think the best thing to do would be to go to your partner

spk_0 and say, look, I want to get a handle on this money thing,

spk_0 and I want us to stop living paycheck to paycheck,

spk_0 or I want us to get out of debt, right?

spk_0 There's probably some part of your money story

spk_0 that you're like, man, why do I have to send $1,000 a month

spk_0 to my student loans?

spk_0 Can there's got to be a way to fix this?

spk_0 And just go to your spouse and be like,

spk_0 imagine if we have $1,000 more a month.

spk_0 For some couples, it might be a match

spk_0 if we had $100 more a month,

spk_0 wouldn't it be nice if we could go out to Olive Garden

spk_0 and not worry about it?

spk_0 Or go out, have buy some beers and drinks,

spk_0 and invite people over on the weekends,

spk_0 and just kind of like starting the conversation

spk_0 with a positive, and then then being like,

spk_0 yeah, that sounds great.

spk_0 How are we gonna do that?

spk_0 And like I said, military one source,

spk_0 airmen and family writing the center,

spk_0 the Navy, the Army, they all have their own places

spk_0 on post or on base, and if you don't know who to start with,

spk_0 just go to military one source,

spk_0 and they'll find like the resources,

spk_0 and they'll point you exactly where to go.

spk_0 But you can even chat with them.

spk_0 I mean, you don't have to, you don't have to sit

spk_0 on the phone and talk to them.

spk_0 I know everybody these days,

spk_0 just likes to go through the chat window,

spk_0 and you can do that.

spk_0 Like they even have, they have an email,

spk_0 so you can exchange emails if you want to.

spk_0 But there's so many free resources out there,

spk_0 and it's such a shame to watch military families

spk_0 continue to avoid the problem.

spk_0 When they're given so many opportunities

spk_0 and so many resources, I have success stories

spk_0 of enlisted millionaires, you know,

spk_0 who are becoming millionaires,

spk_0 like well before they reach military retirement

spk_0 of 20 years of service, airmen who have saved

spk_0 over $100,000 after just a four-year enlistment term.

spk_0 And I mean, are these extreme examples,

spk_0 are these outliers?

spk_0 Yeah, they are, but they're also proving the point that,

spk_0 okay, maybe you can have $100,000 in four years,

spk_0 but I bet you could have $40,000.

spk_0 And if that sounds crazy to you,

spk_0 like the data's out there,

spk_0 and you are getting paid enough to make that happen,

spk_0 it's just, a lot of it is look at your lifestyle,

spk_0 cut out the fat, and you know,

spk_0 focus on your opportunities to make additional income,

spk_0 which like you were saying, deployments,

spk_0 not only is it an opportune time to have

spk_0 those communication questions and discussions

spk_0 with your partner, but you have the opportunity

spk_0 where now when you're deployed, all your food is free,

spk_0 all your housing is free,

spk_0 you're gonna continue to collect housing allowance

spk_0 for the station, if you have a dependent back

spk_0 at your duty station, you're gonna continue

spk_0 to get housing allowance for them,

spk_0 but there's nothing to say that they can't downsize, right?

spk_0 Like they can move all their stuff in the storage

spk_0 and move back home with their family,

spk_0 which depending on your family,

spk_0 it might not, situation might not be ideal.

spk_0 So don't do that, but they're still gonna have expenses,

spk_0 but when you're deployed, you know,

spk_0 you don't have any expenses, your income goes up,

spk_0 and you're making tax-free pay usually,

spk_0 if you're deployed to a combat zone.

spk_0 There's tremendous opportunity there to get way ahead,

spk_0 and I just saw a post on Reddit the other day,

spk_0 I think a guy's on a nine month or 12 month deployment,

spk_0 and the first three months, he paid off all his auto loans,

spk_0 he paid off all his student loans,

spk_0 and he's like, okay, what do I do next?

spk_0 And it's like, all right, man, let's, like,

spk_0 back side of your TSP, Roth TSP, Roth IRA.

spk_0 Okay, what about, what's next?

spk_0 Taxable brokerage, you know, let's go, like,

spk_0 and then you can literally change your life around

spk_0 in a single deployment,

spk_0 and I think so many service members just let that,

spk_0 just let it go to waste, and they don't stay,

spk_0 and it doesn't, you don't have to stay focused on it,

spk_0 the goal, you just have to set up a system

spk_0 when you first get out there,

spk_0 and then you can worry about, you know,

spk_0 what you're actually doing on that deployment,

spk_0 but, and let your money take care of itself.

spk_0 Yeah, it's interesting that you point out that,

spk_0 because especially maybe the earlier career service members,

spk_0 like you alluded to, I think you said Spencer that,

spk_0 like, once you reach captain,

spk_0 that's when you first hit maybe six figures worth of income.

spk_0 So before that, you're on five figures of income,

spk_0 and if you do make that really common mistake

spk_0 that you pointed out, which is just like buying too much car,

spk_0 you've got the money, so you decide to spend it on a car,

spk_0 like we all know that Camaro example that you pointed out,

spk_0 that buying too much car and getting too bad of a loan

spk_0 on that car is easily a five figure mistake.

spk_0 It might even sneak into a six figure mistake

spk_0 over many years, and when you're,

spk_0 quote unquote, only making five figures,

spk_0 you can't afford five and six figure mistakes like that.

spk_0 And if instead you could,

spk_0 if people could make the better choice up front,

spk_0 prevent that mistake, save that money, put it in their TSP,

spk_0 it really is the difference between kind of like floundering

spk_0 throughout your military career,

spk_0 and maybe pivoting post-creer,

spk_0 and being like, yeah, I don't have too much to show for my military career.

spk_0 I didn't save that much,

spk_0 versus pivoting post-military career,

spk_0 and being that millionaire,

spk_0 or having the flexibility to do whatever you want after the military.

spk_0 Here's a quick ad, and then we'll get back to the show.

spk_0 I still remember it was 2019,

spk_0 and a guy from Fidelity came in to speak to my then employer

spk_0 about personal finance in general,

spk_0 and about our 401k plan in particular.

spk_0 There were 60 or so of us who attended,

spk_0 mostly 50 plus years old,

spk_0 clearly with retirement on their minds,

spk_0 and nothing against this individual from Fidelity,

spk_0 but unfortunately the guy just didn't really know what he was talking about,

spk_0 and ended up being a major disappointment,

spk_0 and a bunch of my colleagues afterwards said,

spk_0 in short, man, we're really thirsty for good financial retirement information,

spk_0 where do we go find it?

spk_0 Now, does that sound true listeners for you and your colleagues?

spk_0 Last year, either in person or via Zoom,

spk_0 I spoke to about 800 employees at 11 different organizations,

spk_0 sometimes about personal finance in general,

spk_0 sometimes about specifics of their retirement plans,

spk_0 sometimes about the nitty-gritty details of social security,

spk_0 and withdrawal planning and retirement math.

spk_0 The point being, if you're interested in inviting me to come talk money to you,

spk_0 to your colleagues, where you work,

spk_0 that is absolutely something I'm interested in talking to you about.

spk_0 Simply drop me an email to jessieatbestinterest.blog,

spk_0 and let's start a conversation.

spk_0 And let's actually pivot and talk about that a little bit.

spk_0 Let's talk about what post-service life looks like,

spk_0 because I can just see all these parallels between the transition to retirement

spk_0 for all civilians, which is something I talk about

spk_0 against the transition to post-service life for military members,

spk_0 whether that means actual retirement for them,

spk_0 or simply a transition to a different career,

spk_0 but I'm really curious, what are some of the biggest sticking points

spk_0 financial or otherwise that you've seen when it comes to transitioning

spk_0 from active duty to post-service life?

spk_0 Well, actually, I'm going to flip the question back on you, Jesse,

spk_0 because I want to hear what you have to say,

spk_0 but I'm going to frame it, I transitioned out of the service

spk_0 before I was eligible for a military retirement,

spk_0 but I did all the classic veteran mistakes, right?

spk_0 So I didn't have a job lined up when I got out,

spk_0 because I thought my side business was going to be enough,

spk_0 and on the income side, yes, it was enough,

spk_0 but on the purpose and meaning side, no way.

spk_0 It just didn't fill that cup,

spk_0 that it didn't fill that need,

spk_0 that I didn't realize was being met by my military service.

spk_0 I got really depressed after leaving active duty for a couple of months,

spk_0 and it wasn't until I started that first job

spk_0 that I was flying for a major US airline,

spk_0 that will for life just came back,

spk_0 and I was like, okay, I'm back in it,

spk_0 I've got a team again, I'm doing it,

spk_0 but then I made the other veteran, not mistake,

spk_0 but the common thing that happens,

spk_0 where six months later I quit,

spk_0 I've barely quickly after a couple of months flying,

spk_0 I was like, this isn't it,

spk_0 this doesn't check that box,

spk_0 it doesn't fill that purpose and meaning need.

spk_0 So my flip back to you is,

spk_0 when you're talking to retirees who are transitioning

spk_0 from the active workforce to whatever they're going to do in retirement,

spk_0 besides the financial stuff,

spk_0 and we can get to that,

spk_0 but I'm more curious in the purpose and meaning stuff,

spk_0 like how, and is that something that,

spk_0 a conversation that you have with your clients?

spk_0 Yeah, that's a big part of the ongoing conversation,

spk_0 and it varies client by client,

spk_0 or if it's a reader of the blog or a listener of the podcast,

spk_0 it varies person by person,

spk_0 because I will say,

spk_0 yeah, there's some people who engage with me,

spk_0 and they're like, Jesse, I just want you to run the math,

spk_0 I just want you to focus on the numbers,

spk_0 I come to you for financial advice,

spk_0 you're not my therapist, you're not my psychologist,

spk_0 which I get,

spk_0 but in most cases, over time,

spk_0 I can build enough trust,

spk_0 to build enough of a relationship with someone to say like,

spk_0 hey, here's something we found with a lot of pre-retirees

spk_0 transitioning into retirement,

spk_0 what we found is,

spk_0 and there's some awesome data to back this up,

spk_0 what we found is,

spk_0 most pre-retirees put their finances as one of,

spk_0 if not the top priority,

spk_0 but then when you talk to people who are two or four

spk_0 or 10 years into retirement,

spk_0 very few people still rank finances as their top priority,

spk_0 and almost all of them rank lifestyle.

spk_0 Lifestyle issues is maybe what I'll say,

spk_0 it's a broad term,

spk_0 but lifestyle issues as their top priority,

spk_0 and it could be right.

spk_0 What am I doing just to fill up my days,

spk_0 how am I maintaining my relationships?

spk_0 A huge one, a really good example.

spk_0 So you think about the workplace,

spk_0 the workplace, okay, yeah,

spk_0 it gave you that paycheck,

spk_0 and we can find a way to replace that paycheck,

spk_0 but you might not be thinking about the fact

spk_0 that it also just gave you this purpose,

spk_0 this drive to get out of bed every morning,

spk_0 and to fulfill someone's need out there in the world.

spk_0 Like you enjoy doing that, that gave you purpose,

spk_0 now you need to replace it.

spk_0 And the workplace probably also gave you a lot of socialization,

spk_0 whether they're your best friends,

spk_0 or even sometimes if you're like, yeah, you know,

spk_0 I don't love all my coworkers,

spk_0 but it's still nice to go chat with someone

spk_0 at the coffee machine in the morning.

spk_0 Well, you have to find a way to replace that in retirement,

spk_0 and newsflash, your wife or your husband

spk_0 might get sick of spending 12 hours a day with you,

spk_0 at some point.

spk_0 So like shameless plug, episode 106,

spk_0 I took some of this data from Fritz Gilbert

spk_0 of the retirement manifesto, shout out Fritz.

spk_0 It's called retirees, mistakes, and wake up calls,

spk_0 expectations versus reality.

spk_0 It was a deep dive on just this topic.

spk_0 It's a little varied, Spencer, but still,

spk_0 there's a through line.

spk_0 Like there are some consistencies that you find over time,

spk_0 having these conversations, and it's really big.

spk_0 It's so much more than just the finances.

spk_0 I mean, the people who are listening to my podcast, right?

spk_0 They tend to be the optimizer in the relationship.

spk_0 They tend to be the spreadsheet-

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 ...should run who is like, oh, you know, like,

spk_0 oh, we got to save $20 on Netflix

spk_0 because like run that compounding interest graph.

spk_0 Like how much it grows into,

spk_0 and my plea to them is, you're going to be fine.

spk_0 The numbers are going to work.

spk_0 You have run 1,000, 10,000 Monte Carlo simulations,

spk_0 not over, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 year time horizons,

spk_0 as long as the United States continues to exist

spk_0 in some form and capitalists

spk_0 and continues to exist in some form

spk_0 and companies continue to pay their shareholder's dividends,

spk_0 you will be fine.

spk_0 Set it all aside, you know,

spk_0 buy your beans and bullets in your gold bars if you need to,

spk_0 but like, you're going to be fine.

spk_0 Now what are you gonna do?

spk_0 And people are just like, oh, you know, I'll figure it out.

spk_0 And like, no, you're not gonna figure it out.

spk_0 I mean, you will, because everybody figures it out.

spk_0 But this is the hard question.

spk_0 The money stuff for most people, the people who are,

spk_0 usually who are hiring financial advisors

spk_0 or who are the DIY, super DIY types that understand,

spk_0 compounding interest and understand the point of tracking

spk_0 your dollars and making sure that every dollar has a job.

spk_0 It's great, every dollar has a job,

spk_0 but what's your job?

spk_0 Like what are you gonna do when you've reached that financial

spk_0 independence or that financial freedom?

spk_0 And it's often ignored both by the military service member

spk_0 who's transitioning to the civilian world,

spk_0 whether it's separation, medical retirement,

spk_0 20 year retirement, or someone who's going from active duty

spk_0 to the guard reserves, which again, I'll throw that out

spk_0 as a great option, as just kind of easing your transition

spk_0 is when you're done with active duty,

spk_0 but if you enjoyed it, if you liked it,

spk_0 if you want to be around those people,

spk_0 take a look at the guard and reserve.

spk_0 Usually their commitments are not that onerous,

spk_0 and you're still gonna get a put on uniform,

spk_0 you're still gonna get a lot of that community,

spk_0 you're still gonna be able to, you know,

spk_0 like if you're civilian job sucks,

spk_0 you can just take active orders and go full time

spk_0 with the guard to reserve and come back later

spk_0 to your civilian job, or you might get to the guard reserve

spk_0 and be like, you know what, no, like I'm good, I did it,

spk_0 this is a nice transition, but I'm gonna give these guys

spk_0 a year and then I'm fully, I'm gonna be fully civilian,

spk_0 but at least you're kind of like taking a slow measured

spk_0 approach to it and you're giving yourself time.

spk_0 And I think that's the thing that I want,

spk_0 anybody who's retiring from the military

spk_0 or transitioning out of the military to the civilian world,

spk_0 or a civilian who's retiring, I just wanna say,

spk_0 you're going to be fine, but it's going to take some time.

spk_0 And for some people, it's no time at all, right?

spk_0 They're like, no, I'm golfing every day

spk_0 and I'm so excited and my wife is gonna go do whatever

spk_0 she's gonna do and we've got the grandkids nearby

spk_0 and like, you know, I talk to retirees all the time

spk_0 who are like, or people who are financially independent,

spk_0 you look at like Mr. Money Mustache or someone

spk_0 and they always say like, I don't have time to work.

spk_0 Like my life is so full, I have so much going on,

spk_0 like I don't know how I had time for a job before this.

spk_0 And that's great, if that's your situation, that's great.

spk_0 And if that's not your situation

spk_0 and you've separated from the military

spk_0 or you're retiring from 40 year career

spk_0 in your 60s and you're going into a more traditional

spk_0 retirement as a civilian, it might take a couple of years

spk_0 and there might be some dark moments in there

spk_0 of you staring at the ceiling at three o'clock in the morning

spk_0 thinking, what did I do?

spk_0 Like why, like what, and what am I doing here?

spk_0 And it's a tough question, but it's okay

spk_0 if you don't get an answer immediately

spk_0 and when you, in two years, three years, five years,

spk_0 you might say, you know, I still don't have an answer,

spk_0 but that's okay, I'm working on it.

spk_0 You might have an answer, you might say,

spk_0 and the book, The Second Mountain, David Brooks

spk_0 talks about the four callings and it's a vocation

spk_0 so like, not just a job, but like, you know, a passion.

spk_0 The work that you were meant to do in this world

spk_0 or the Japanese, a key guy.

spk_0 They a key guy, there you go, what you were meant to do.

spk_0 And then the other one is, there's four of them,

spk_0 religion, philosophy, community and marriage.

spk_0 You kind of focusses on those and for a lot of people,

spk_0 maybe they've neglected their marriage

spk_0 because of their work or maybe they've not been involved

spk_0 as involved in their religious community

spk_0 because they were busy doing other things

spk_0 and raising kids and you know, life's busy

spk_0 and you know, I see a lot of retirees,

spk_0 my wife's grandmother for instance,

spk_0 turning 90 years old and she's still in the church choir, right?

spk_0 Like she still goes and sings every Sunday

spk_0 and like her friends are there and she knows,

spk_0 she talks to the pastor or the priest

spk_0 and it's such a, you know, joy for her

spk_0 to have that part of her social calendar

spk_0 and have that part of her week.

spk_0 And that's something, you know,

spk_0 the fact that she has the time to do that

spk_0 and go practice with them and be there every Sunday,

spk_0 maybe that's something that you're interested in doing

spk_0 and you just didn't have the time

spk_0 when you were working full time and here you go,

spk_0 here's this opportunity, here's this gift, don't squander it.

spk_0 A few different things that you're saying they're Spencer

spk_0 just maybe think of these two different metaphors

spk_0 that both oddly, coincidentally have to do

spk_0 with our teenage years because you know,

spk_0 I can picture back to like being a high school freshman

spk_0 and heading into the summers off, you know,

spk_0 right now we're recording in early July,

spk_0 summer off for high school kids

spk_0 and a lot of my friends and I had this mindset

spk_0 where it's like, well, what are you gonna do this summer?

spk_0 And it's like, I don't really know, just not school.

spk_0 That's the answer, just not school.

spk_0 And that's a good enough answer for that time in your life

spk_0 because summer's two months long and okay,

spk_0 if you don't have the most productive summer off,

spk_0 kind of like who cares?

spk_0 But I feel like that is the mindset

spk_0 that some retirees go into retirement with like,

spk_0 what are you gonna do?

spk_0 I don't know, not work.

spk_0 That's it, I'll figure it out and not work is good enough

spk_0 because I didn't like work and the answer of not work

spk_0 means I'm therefore going to like it.

spk_0 And that's just not the case

spk_0 because the second metaphor is many of us

spk_0 can think back to this time in life where maybe we're 17, 18,

spk_0 maybe we're debating like, do I go to college,

spk_0 do I go to the military, do I get a job?

spk_0 Or maybe it happens right after college

spk_0 where it's like, do I go to grad school

spk_0 or for me like I got this four year degree in engineering,

spk_0 do I even like being an engineer?

spk_0 And the point is like, you don't quite feel settled in life

spk_0 and you don't quite feel like you have this defined path

spk_0 in front of you and you're just trying to figure it out.

spk_0 There's a parallel between that

spk_0 and the early years of retirement.

spk_0 Like you're trying something new,

spk_0 it's a big life transition.

spk_0 And for the first time in decades,

spk_0 you've got nothing but time.

spk_0 It's a big deal and it might take just as you alluded to.

spk_0 It might take you some time to figure out

spk_0 where your path will take you

spk_0 and what feels good and what feels comfortable.

spk_0 But if you can do some of that work beforehand,

spk_0 that's where I think people tend to have

spk_0 some more retirement success

spk_0 rather than just getting thrown into the deep end

spk_0 and hoping they can tread enough water

spk_0 to keep their head above water.

spk_0 If they ease their way into it

spk_0 by doing some work beforehand,

spk_0 usually there's a better result.

spk_0 I don't know if the same applied to military

spk_0 transitioning out of the military,

spk_0 but I gotta think a little bit of preparation

spk_0 can go a long way.

spk_0 You just triggered a couple ideas there

spk_0 for the transitioning military service member.

spk_0 And the first one, the most practical and tactical advice

spk_0 I can give is there's a program called tap

spk_0 Transition Assistance Program.

spk_0 And when you're within a year of separation,

spk_0 so you've set a separation date or retirement,

spk_0 you can start going to tap classes.

spk_0 And usually it's two or three days

spk_0 and they have like an entrepreneurship track

spk_0 and a civilian career track

spk_0 and they'll give you a year free of LinkedIn premium,

spk_0 which I hate LinkedIn, but there you go.

spk_0 I guess some people have leveraged it to succeed in life.

spk_0 But the tap program, I went to one

spk_0 and you have to go to one before you can separate.

spk_0 But that was a mistake.

spk_0 I think I should have gone probably as soon as I was eligible,

spk_0 so soon as I was that one year out,

spk_0 just gone to like the one or two day course

spk_0 and use that as an opportunity to get the brain juices flowing

spk_0 and thinking, okay, like what is this gonna look like?

spk_0 And I thought I was well prepared for my transition.

spk_0 I mean, we had a very large nest egg.

spk_0 We were essentially, if we weren't lean fire,

spk_0 we were coast fire.

spk_0 I mean, we were well on the path to just being straight up

spk_0 fire and possibly even fat fire in the next couple of years.

spk_0 And so financially, we were very well prepared.

spk_0 I had a little bit of work to do with the podcast

spk_0 and the blog and the book.

spk_0 But there was still a lot of things

spk_0 that I hadn't quite figured out.

spk_0 And I don't know if I would have figured them out

spk_0 because I'd gone to a tap class earlier,

spk_0 but at least I would have started kind of the process

spk_0 and maybe instead of a couple months of wallowing

spk_0 in existential and we, I could have shortened that a little bit.

spk_0 And so that would be my advice

spk_0 for someone suffering from the military

spk_0 is go to the tap program more than once.

spk_0 Just go twice and do it as soon as you are eligible for

spk_0 and then do it a little bit closer to separation.

spk_0 Because the other thing is they dumped so much information

spk_0 on you while you're in there that it's very hard

spk_0 to absorb it and one go around and you're gonna pick up

spk_0 just like listening to when Jesse's podcast

spk_0 or my podcast, the second time you listen to the episode,

spk_0 you're gonna glean even more information

spk_0 and different information.

spk_0 So I highly recommend that for transitioning

spk_0 military service members, you look at using

spk_0 the tap program to your advantage.

spk_0 And there are similar versions here in civilian life,

spk_0 whether it's just like something as simple

spk_0 as a class at your community center

spk_0 or something from AARP or I mean,

spk_0 the really nice thing is so much financial content

spk_0 on the internet is written for the general audience.

spk_0 A lot of it is just free and out there

spk_0 and you just have to go find it.

spk_0 But it is out there.

spk_0 But anyway Spencer, you've mentioned a few times now,

spk_0 your book, your blog and of course your podcast,

spk_0 which I know, I'm sure my military listeners

spk_0 are gonna go find it and maybe even some folks

spk_0 who are listening who just,

spk_0 they have friends of the military,

spk_0 they have children in the military,

spk_0 they're gonna wanna forward it on to the people they know.

spk_0 How can our listeners go out and find your work?

spk_0 You could start at militarymanual.com.

spk_0 That's the hub of the content universe

spk_0 of all my ramblings and rantings for the last,

spk_0 oh shoot, I think I started in 2012.

spk_0 So almost 13 years now at the time of this recording.

spk_0 And then if you enjoyed listening to my,

spk_0 my sniffer-ish voice,

spk_0 then you can go to the military money manual podcast,

spk_0 Spotify and Apple.

spk_0 Finally, you could find the book,

spk_0 which is creatively titled the military money manual.

spk_0 And that's on Amazon and also at shop.militarymanual.com.

spk_0 Check out all the versions there, audio book

spk_0 and you book and hardcover and everything.

spk_0 The podcast I do with my buddy Jamie,

spk_0 he's still active duty officer.

spk_0 We started it to promote the book and it's just grown.

spk_0 We're almost up to 200 episodes.

spk_0 So we're having too much fun doing it.

spk_0 We've had some great guests on there

spk_0 and we'll be publishing this episode on there as well.

spk_0 And so where can people find what you're working on?

spk_0 Ooh, thank you for that.

spk_0 I wanted to give you a commendation.

spk_0 That's a military term, right?

spk_0 A commendation for branding consistency, Spencer.

spk_0 Excellent.

spk_0 The military money manual, everywhere you look.

spk_0 Everywhere you look.

spk_0 The hub, if you will, for me is bestinterest.blog.

spk_0 That is my blog.

spk_0 That's where I do all my writing and the homepage,

spk_0 right there, bestinterest.blog.

spk_0 That's where people can sign up for my weekly newsletter,

spk_0 which is just an easy way that people can keep in touch

spk_0 with my new articles and my new podcast episodes.

spk_0 The podcast is available anywhere you're listening.

spk_0 If you're listening to it right now,

spk_0 you're at a good spot considering it is this podcast.

spk_0 Personal finance for long-term investors is the name.

spk_0 And we do deep dives on financial planning topics,

spk_0 tax planning topics, a little bit of the psychology

spk_0 that goes into long-term investing and retirement.

spk_0 So if you're looking to deep dive and learn more,

spk_0 it's a pretty good place to do that.

spk_0 I love it when money podcasts barely took,

spk_0 like I don't think we use any percentages

spk_0 or dollar amounts on the show,

spk_0 but then the dollar amounts and the math.

spk_0 And really, there's so much more that goes into these questions.

spk_0 And the last thing I wanted to leave your listeners with,

spk_0 especially because we tend to be optimizers,

spk_0 but the five types of wealth by Sahil Bloom,

spk_0 I just read it.

spk_0 And for an optimizer, it's great,

spk_0 because it gives you a different framework

spk_0 to measure yourself against rather than just what's the net worth,

spk_0 what's the net worth, what's my income, what's the tax rate.

spk_0 And for retirees, especially,

spk_0 you're going to be gifted this opportunity of,

spk_0 you're going to have more control,

spk_0 hopefully you're going to have more control of your time.

spk_0 And that's one of the five types of wealth

spk_0 that he talks about in there.

spk_0 I think it can give the person transitioning

spk_0 from a civilian job to civilian retirement

spk_0 or a military job to a military retirement.

spk_0 And it can give you that framework of,

spk_0 if you're rich in one area,

spk_0 give your listening to this podcast,

spk_0 you might be rich in the financial wealth,

spk_0 but you might be impoverished in another category.

spk_0 And that just gives you, as an optimizer,

spk_0 now it's your job to increase your net worth,

spk_0 so to speak, in that other wealth category.

spk_0 So five types of wealth, Sahil Bloom,

spk_0 I really enjoyed it.

spk_0 I highly recommend it to all your listeners.

spk_0 Awesome.

spk_0 That's a great recommendation.

spk_0 Thank you, Spencer.

spk_0 Good to talk to you, man.

spk_0 Thank you, Jesse.

spk_0 Thanks for tuning into this episode

spk_0 of personal finance for long-term investors.

spk_0 If you have a question for Jesse to answer

spk_0 on a future episode, send him an email over at its blog.

spk_0 The best interest is email address is

spk_0 Jesse at bestinterest.blog.

spk_0 Again, that's Jesse at bestinterest.blog.

spk_0 Did you enjoy the show?

spk_0 Subscribe, rate, and review the podcast wherever you listen.

spk_0 This helps others find the show

spk_0 and invest and knowledge themselves.

spk_0 And we really appreciate it.

spk_0 We'll catch you on the next episode

spk_0 of personal finance for long-term investors.

spk_0 Personal finance for long-term investors

spk_0 is a personal podcast meant for education and entertainment.

spk_0 It should not be taken as financial advice

spk_0 and it's not prescriptive of your financial situation.

Military Money Lessons That Civilians Can’t Afford to Miss | Spencer Reese - E117

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