Love, Family and Business: How To Work With a Partner with Jens Grede

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Today is a crazy one. I'm interviewing my husband who I've also worked with for over 18 years,

spk_0 Yens Greed. Yens is a serial entrepreneur, prolific investor in the media and consumer industries,

spk_0 father of our four kids and CEO of Schemes. Today we unpack how we've been able to build together in life and business.

spk_0 Yens reveals why he never denies gut instinct and how success is about opportunity, patience and resilience

spk_0 and the moment that changed everything for us.

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spk_0 Hi darling. This is weird. How are you? How are you feeling?

spk_0 I'm extremely nervous. I think the most nervous I've been for like since our wedding day.

spk_0 I'm shut up. There's no way. Are you really? Of course, because I want to do a good job for you.

spk_0 This isn't what I do, so I'm doing it for you. You're so gallnitry me out.

spk_0 Well, you're very lovely and I'm happy you're here because actually of all the people I've asked to

spk_0 do the podcast, you gave me the most direct answer, which was just a flat no, maybe season two.

spk_0 Here you are. I was hoping when season two would roll around, I could say season three and

spk_0 so four of it was just kicking again. Well, the people have spoken yet. They want to hear from you.

spk_0 It is a fact of social media questioning. So here you are. Obviously, I know you as my beloved

spk_0 husband, their father of our four children and an amazing investor, founder, CEO,

spk_0 all-round entrepreneur. But for my audience that don't know you, can you? Just take me back to

spk_0 the beginning a little bit and talk to the audience about where you come from and what you're

spk_0 up for me. I grew up in a small working class community and our self-hosts' Stockholm,

spk_0 son of a Swedish filmmaker made very difficult movies about difficult subjects.

spk_0 Can I say that again? Yeah. And a mother who was a tapestry artist. So we were the old family,

spk_0 I wouldn't say we were the Adams family, but we were the old family in where I was raised.

spk_0 And talk a little bit about because you left home at a very young age and kind of set out on

spk_0 your own away from your parents, like 16 years old. Yeah, I moved away when I was 16.

spk_0 I grew up in the countryside, but I never really had a strong connection to the countryside.

spk_0 I was a kid that was very bored growing up and dreaming of the big city.

spk_0 And I was obsessed with skateboarding and I spent my whole childhood skateboarding and snowboarding

spk_0 and it's not that easy to skateboard on a farm. So, which is, it was like a challenging choice.

spk_0 Like, so I moved to Stockholm when I was 16 so I could really skate all year round indoors and

spk_0 lived on my own ever since. Tell me about coming to London. I know you turned up to London when you were

spk_0 19, but give me that bridge of like, how did you get into fashion? Because I feel like for certain

spk_0 careers, music, fashion, entertainment, it's, you know, it's very, very different now to what it was

spk_0 back then. But you were still a kid with no contacts, no money, no like you weren't in the mix

spk_0 because that's not where you came from. So how did you break into fashion? That was your first job.

spk_0 Well, that was before I came to London. I think I was like 20, about to become 21.

spk_0 I had somehow wrangled my way into a magazine in Stockholm. That was a very well-respected fashion

spk_0 magazine. I wrangled my way in by I approached them in a nightclub. I saw the editor and I said,

spk_0 I'll work for free. And who doesn't want someone working for free? That's what we could do back in

spk_0 the day. No, those days are gone, but we all worked for free. I worked for free until he grew

spk_0 a conscience and started paying me. You didn't tell him you had to pay you? No. No, no. We all just

spk_0 worked for free. It was the norm, especially in fashion. Well, I wanted the job and I was a

spk_0 kid to go hungry for a little bit. And go hungry, you did. All right, so you turn up to London, you've

spk_0 got 300 quid in your pocket and 300 quid is, you know, not a lot of dollars, basically. And what do

spk_0 you do? Well, I know this is shocking to hear, but I had a girlfriend before you. I know, I know,

spk_0 I know it's shocking. And, and surprise me. You mean that you moved to London for a girl?

spk_0 I think there was a girl involved, yes, in that move. I wanted to move to New York. Long may she be gone.

spk_0 Well, God works in mysterious ways. Because I was in London. Just waiting for you. Because you were

spk_0 in London. Because I did not like London. I didn't like it. One piece. And I wanted to move to New

spk_0 York. And I showed up in London. We shared a small apartment above a bookbinders on Hollywood Road,

spk_0 which is not the greatest area then. I don't think it's the greatest area today. And I slept on a,

spk_0 well, her and I lived on a blow up mattress to get it with her flatmates. That was that.

spk_0 They were the good old days. They were the good old days. Yeah. Did you

spk_0 envisage yourself to be where you are now? The short answer is yes. I mean, I never envisage my

spk_0 career. I never had a plan for my career. I didn't know what for me would take or what good I could do.

spk_0 But I was a daydreamer. Yeah. I was a big daydreamer. And I think I spent most of my school year's

spk_0 day dreaming. I certainly didn't spend my school day studying. I never went to college.

spk_0 Now, you left when you were what? 15, 16? No, no. In I left after high school. Yeah.

spk_0 After high school, it's a little different than the UK to the US and Sweden. But I left after high

spk_0 school, you know, had terrible grades. I couldn't get into university. I wanted to get into university

spk_0 because I wanted to be able to live. And if I would get into university, I would get, you know,

spk_0 student loans and live on the student loans. But my grades didn't didn't really get me there.

spk_0 So from the terrible grades, tell me how you first got started in business. What was the first thing?

spk_0 So the way I think about business is something I do to do something I want to do. It's

spk_0 business itself. It's a means to an end. It's the necessary things we do to be able to practice

spk_0 something we love or we want to express. You don't become an artist to be in the music business,

spk_0 become an artist to become an artist. The music business follows being an artist or a writer.

spk_0 And I was a writer or at least identified as a writer. I didn't write very much, but I identified

spk_0 as a writer. You have to work at a magazine. But really, I didn't have any fault of being in business

spk_0 or running a business or starting a business until I had to start a business to do what I wanted to do.

spk_0 Why did you need to start a business? Where were you at? Where were you working?

spk_0 I was 24 and I wanted to start a business. Yeah, but I couldn't get the job I wanted.

spk_0 So I had to create the job I wanted. I wanted to work with my best friend. And no one would hire

spk_0 two people at the same time. I can't believe we fought. We were naive enough to think that you can

spk_0 get hired as two people. I mean, how many people have come into your office saying, here's the two of us.

spk_0 And here's my best friend. Now, here's my best friend. Hire us both. That's not how it goes. However,

spk_0 we were naive enough to think that that's how it goes. And when not only that, we only really

spk_0 wanted to work for one or two people. And when they didn't give us a job, we had no choice but to

spk_0 start our own business. I've heard you talk about or heard you say that dysfunction is an opportunity.

spk_0 And so I wonder about somebody listening to this. How a toxic job, a bad boss or being in a kind of

spk_0 not so great work environment can actually be a growth experience? Well, just imagine, right?

spk_0 If everybody around you is really great, you know how hard it is to stand out. But if you're

spk_0 working in an environment with some dysfunction and you're in a job and you don't think your boss is

spk_0 that good or your coworker is that good? Good. You'd be great. You'd be great. You will stand out.

spk_0 And you'll get opportunities because you will be there and you'll do a better job. So yeah,

spk_0 instead of, and I've said it to many friends, don't complain about your environment.

spk_0 See your environment as an opportunity to put yourself forward and do a great job. Don't worry

spk_0 so much about if the people you work with is not up to what you perceive, right? Be wrongly to

spk_0 be your level. But then you be the level. Yeah. No, I think that that shuts down quite a lot of

spk_0 complaining. I love what you said about the way of framing your 20s or 30s and your 40s because

spk_0 I think that common with them or so many of us think that everything should be figured out.

spk_0 Like you've spent maybe time in education. You come out of college in your 20s and you should

spk_0 walk into this dream situation. But the reality is, and I think I've learned this as I got as a

spk_0 got older, that it doesn't work like that at all. And I wonder if like, you know, you have hundreds

spk_0 and hundreds of employees. You've had multiple companies and successes. Can you talk a little bit about

spk_0 the timing, the timing of everything and how we should think about some of those frameworks?

spk_0 Well, unlike you, I don't have a plan. We're going to talk a lot about how different we are here.

spk_0 I don't have a plan. I don't have a linear career path. I don't call myself an entrepreneur.

spk_0 I don't call myself the CEO. I said, I normally say, who the hell wants to be a CEO?

spk_0 CEOs gets fired. I don't want to be a CEO. I want to call the shots. I want to own it.

spk_0 But that's someone else been to buy the money. But the distinction is important because I think

spk_0 for a long time, all I wanted in my life was to be the CEO, the entrepreneur, and you have

spk_0 always fought against those things. You're like, no, you don't, Emma. You just want to be the

spk_0 passing golden shots. What does it matter? Well, I think people care about labels. You're just

spk_0 very, like, you can give a shit about those things. I couldn't care too shits about those things.

spk_0 I think one should be careful about being too excited about calling yourself a CEO or founder.

spk_0 I mean, I prefer founder. I think founder is there. You have an idea. You're bringing that to life.

spk_0 I think it's the best way to describe it. But to me, when I think about a CEO, I think about

spk_0 someone who is, you know, commanding a large corporation, not someone who's trying to make

spk_0 a dream become a reality. But you are a CEO. You're the CEO of Schemes.

spk_0 For my sense. You've been the CEO of multiple companies. And yet that's just not something that

spk_0 you identify with. No. I identify with a role or as a coach. Yeah. I think in, as you know,

spk_0 which is ironic, but I really think about a lot of things in business in a sports analogy.

spk_0 And I'm a basketball coach. I want to win the title. I put my guys on the floor.

spk_0 You know, but if you're losing in the fourth quarter, I'm not going to run out and sink a

spk_0 free pointer for you, but I'm going to deal with you in the op-system. So for me, I see my job

spk_0 as trying to bring a vision into reality. And that vision will shift as business could

spk_0 bigger. You know, the dream of what Schemes can become is bigger today than when we started the

spk_0 company. But I see my role with Kim, Kim had a vision of what she wanted to create. And I see my

spk_0 role as making that a reality for her and for myself and for you and for our team.

spk_0 I want to know because I feel like you have a good point to you on this.

spk_0 For someone who's starting out with super limited resources, what do you think the smartest way

spk_0 is to build and to create momentum for yourself? If somebody else has the 300 pounds in their pocket,

spk_0 what do you think you would advise? What if you have three or four hundred dollars in your pocket?

spk_0 You can't really do shit. That's the truth. You have to be good at something. You know,

spk_0 if you don't have the money, you have to have the human capital, your skill set, your drive,

spk_0 your talent. That is hopefully more valuable than four hundred dollars. So you have to double

spk_0 down on being good at something. People try to skip that over. We see these success stories all the

spk_0 time about someone who stumbles over something and oh my god, now it's unbelievable. It's a billion

spk_0 dollar business. And I can tell you, I have been, as you know, an avid investor in the consumer space

spk_0 and in technology and media for 20 years, I'm on the inside of many of those stories.

spk_0 It's not my name because it's not mine, but I'm on the inside because I'm an investor.

spk_0 It never is what people think it is. It's never as great as it might look. So it's far better

spk_0 to focus on being excellent. And I have in my whole life never seen excellent people fail.

spk_0 That's a delicious bit of advice right there. Just try to be great.

spk_0 Just try to be great. Just try to take whatever it is that you've got and be great. I want to talk to

spk_0 you about like the big pivotal moments. And I think that one element or something that I see

spk_0 in you that I've really had to try to learn is this element of risk taking. And so I feel like you

spk_0 have reinvented yourself in your career multiple, multiple times. And I wonder like what's given

spk_0 you the courage to start over and start over and start over again. The biggest risk you can take

spk_0 in life is not taking any risks in life. You have told me this many times. That's a fact.

spk_0 Whatever good moment you have is going to pass for everybody.

spk_0 You are a underloved joy, my darling.

spk_0 It is just what it is. This is the Stoics, Swedish joyfulness that I wake up with every morning

spk_0 feeling good. It's going to pass. I'm like, oh, great. Okay, great.

spk_0 Well, it's going to pass if you don't reinvent yourself.

spk_0 Well, because you believe very much like not getting high on your own supply, right? You're like,

spk_0 you're being a moment and you know it's just a fleeting moment.

spk_0 I think getting high on your own supply, but getting high on your own success,

spk_0 I would say that drug has taken down more of my friends than any of the others.

spk_0 You have to reinvent yourself every five to seven years or so.

spk_0 And give me a night like for people listening, exactly what do you mean, Vanna?

spk_0 What do you mean by reinvent yourself? I'm sitting on your podcast.

spk_0 Fair.

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spk_0 All right, let's talk about me and you. Yeah. Okay, so we got to

spk_0 the kind of early 30s, which is basically when I met you, I met you when you were 30.

spk_0 30. Because I remember you're 30, but 29 because I remember you're 30th birthday.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wasn't invited. No. You had an abacuffer and then too, but

spk_0 it wasn't a part of you. No, you were miserable before me, but let's just talk about, well,

spk_0 actually why don't we talk about that? Why don't we talk about how we first met because you know

spk_0 how couples have these different ideas of that. Let's talk about us together. How we met. Go on,

spk_0 in your words. Well, we met through an agency that was under the sat big group umbrella,

spk_0 and they wanted to branch out into a sponsorship and events. I didn't really care.

spk_0 But the people were running it. That's exactly why I came over because you didn't care. I was like,

spk_0 oh, whatever. We'll try it. Yeah. And they said, but you worry my interview. You were my final interview,

spk_0 basically. Yes, yes, yes. And after I died, you do remember it very well. Where were we?

spk_0 But I was going to say something. Okay, go on, go on. Go on. Go on. Go on. Go for it.

spk_0 That's right. They were saying at the time, I was like, why would we do that? And they were like,

spk_0 this girl, everybody loves her. She's super well respected. She's really young, but I think it

spk_0 would be a really good look for us if she worked here because everybody else wanted to work for them.

spk_0 And I said, good enough for me, but let me meet this person. Yeah. Until I met you.

spk_0 So you met. And how did you feel about me straight away? Was it love at first sight?

spk_0 It wasn't love at first sight. But you. But it wasn't. I loved you straight away.

spk_0 I really did. You got things. No love. You really like the way I remember it,

spk_0 is you literally didn't know that I existed for nine months.

spk_0 I think that's a slight exaggeration. I do remember our entire first meeting in detail.

spk_0 Oh, yeah. No doubt. You're very, you remember the details.

spk_0 And I wouldn't have remembered that in detail if you hadn't made a very strong impression.

spk_0 I remember telling someone I thought you were very cute. So I give you that. But I was also

spk_0 aware that that's not something I should think. I remember being so in love with you, the moment

spk_0 I met you that when you wrote my offer down, because I was essentially at that point, it was like,

spk_0 I was going to start a division of an agency you already have. And I would have a stake in that.

spk_0 It wasn't really even a company. It was just a division. But I would basically get to make

spk_0 a decent amount of money. And you wrote my offer down on a piece of paper. And I loved you so much

spk_0 at that point that I still have that notebook. It's upstairs still in my G.A. office. It's upstairs

spk_0 in the office. Yes. That's extremely cute. Isn't that cute? Yeah, that's very cute.

spk_0 Yeah, I'm so glad you thought that was cute. I like that. Yeah, I mean, it's the truth. I was

spk_0 completely smitten. But, you know, we were not in situations either of us to start dating one

spk_0 another, because we both are the partners at the time. I don't think that MeetQ is as interesting

spk_0 perhaps as how, you know, how I fell in love with you, which I find was one of the most I'm going

spk_0 to sound like the way I don't want to come across almost spiritual. In the way that I happened,

spk_0 it was a, it sounds like I dream captures. It really does. Which is like the opposite. But I just

spk_0 knew when I knew I knew I had when I knew I had no doubt it was like a cosmic experience. And I knew

spk_0 you felt the same way, even though we had never talked about. Yeah, we never had a discussion,

spk_0 because we were professional. When we kind of proclaimed our love for one another

spk_0 and started dating, we just came out with it. Yeah. I remember I was with you. No, we hadn't

spk_0 had, we hadn't kissed and we hadn't done nothing. No. But I was willing to leave everything and

spk_0 anything for you. Yeah, same. And you did. Which, you know, yeah, you sometimes the greatest

spk_0 risk is not taking it. But it didn't feel like a risk at all. It felt like this is what I had to do.

spk_0 But I was never uncertain. And I was never uncertain about how you felt either. No, I think that we've

spk_0 been very clear together. I mean, I do think, and I say this all the time, it was, it has been a gift

spk_0 in a blessing that we had a working relationship together for just under a year before we actually

spk_0 started dating, before I put my, you know, fallen in love on day one to the side and decided

spk_0 to do some good work. Well, let's help for because when you have a working rapport, it's much easier

spk_0 to have a personal rapport. Yeah, I think so. You try to turn that into working report that can

spk_0 be a little bit challenging because you just have different patterns. Yeah, the way around it

spk_0 really worked. And I think that what's been interesting is how we've managed to stay

spk_0 happily married together now with four kids later and yet still work together. So what do you think

spk_0 it is that makes us able to work together? I would broaden that a little bit because I have only

spk_0 really worked with friends. I consider true. That's true. You always with a friend. I didn't,

spk_0 in almost every case, you know, there's been that duality. You know, you're my family, but as we

spk_0 grow up in our 20s and 30s or friends are also our family. Yeah. So I have only, I feel like I've

spk_0 always ever worked with family. I also grew up in a home where my dad was making movies, my mom

spk_0 was making art and they had a dialogue around each other's work all the time. So I think I grew up

spk_0 in a home where work and life was always intertwined. And it wasn't something that my parents were

spk_0 trying to separate. They got a tremendous amount of joy and value out of it. Just like I believe

spk_0 I'm getting a tremendous amount of joy and value out of working with you. You know, all relationships

spk_0 not just in love, but all relationships have to create something together. And we can create a home,

spk_0 we can create a family, people can create memories, you can have projects, you can start companies.

spk_0 People ask me all the time, you know, my friends ask me, you're working with your wife. I

spk_0 said, it's working with your wife, I can work with your wife. That would drive me nuts. How do you do it?

spk_0 And I say, you all work with your wife, you all work with your partners. You know, we're lucky now

spk_0 that we don't have to argue so much about who's taking out the trash. But for most people,

spk_0 the division of roles and responsibilities in a home, in any relationship, it sure looks like work

spk_0 to me. So I don't make that much distinction. You really don't? No. I always think that it's somewhere

spk_0 in the fact that you and I are, and we talk about this a lot, like we are so different. The way we

spk_0 approach business, the way we are with the people that we work with you and I have entirely

spk_0 composite styles. But in our home lives, and what we care about and who we are, we're incredibly

spk_0 similar. I think we're very similar about our taste. Yeah. Taste meaning how we want to live,

spk_0 how we want to eat, what we get excited about. We have very similar values. Yeah. You know,

spk_0 of the whole spectrum of values, I think we have similar moral code. That's a sure. I think we

spk_0 look at the world in a very similar way. I feel that I'm incredibly aligned with you as a human being.

spk_0 Yeah. Our styles are stylistically or entirely different. Not like more than being a

spk_0 no like galaxy support. Galaxy is about. Galaxy is about. You are charming and friendly.

spk_0 personable and emotional. And you know, and you my darling. I'm accused of being a little bit

spk_0 stoic. I'm personal perhaps sometimes look cold. I wouldn't use that word, but I would just say,

spk_0 you know, a bit more objective. We're super different in how we approach our work. But that's small

spk_0 stuff. That's just how you approach your work is how you get shit done. Yeah. That's what I'm. Yeah.

spk_0 You know, and I've said this to you many times when we've had disagreements, which is it's all

spk_0 going to lead to the same result. Yeah. This is how you go about it to get to your end result. I have

spk_0 to go about it the way I go about it. And when you say, how can you do this? Or, you know, I don't

spk_0 agree with that. You know, I'll sometimes have to remind you that I've done just fine in life

spk_0 doing it my way. And we're going to get to the same place. We're going to get to the same place.

spk_0 But we do have some rules like I feel like one of the things that between you and I, we always say

spk_0 like whichever of us cares the most gets to decide. Yeah. This is a I would say this is a pillar of my

spk_0 kind of philosophy of working with people that I love. And it goes for you, it goes for all my

spk_0 partners. I think it goes for my working relationship with Kim. Yeah. Which is I know what you, I know

spk_0 what Kim, you know, what my other partners deeply care about. And if you care that much about it,

spk_0 I'm going to let you have it. And I'm lucky enough to work with people that give me the grace

spk_0 that when I care a lot, you'll let me have it. Because in the end of the day, we all make good

spk_0 decisions. We make more bad decisions. Yeah. It's okay. Okay. You like blue. I like red.

spk_0 Who to say what's the best? Okay. If you really want blue, let's do blue. If it doesn't work out,

spk_0 we'll do it differently. What's the big deal? How does your dad say it? Some things work out. What

spk_0 is the saying he has? Well, the saying my dad has, which applies to a lot of things in life, is

spk_0 it's going to be okay. But if it's not okay, that's okay, too. But as it pertains to

spk_0 like how you divide responsibilities between a friend and a business partner, it's really important

spk_0 to follow the rule of who cares. Who cares more? Because if you're passionate about it,

spk_0 it's important for you to see that fruit. You have that in your heart. You want to see this idea

spk_0 fruit. Who am I to stop you from seeing that fruit? That creates friction, intention. If it doesn't

spk_0 work out or you don't get your way, and I get my way instead, and that doesn't work out,

spk_0 you're going to be resentful thinking if you've only done it my way. Is it much easier to go?

spk_0 If this is really important to you, we're going to do it the way you want to do it. And we're

spk_0 going to get behind the way you want to do it 110%. If it doesn't work out, well, you know what,

spk_0 we'll make a different decision next time. Yeah. It's okay. Honestly, people overthink the small

spk_0 decisions, and they forget about the bigger picture. Because you chose that color, because you

spk_0 opened that store, because you choose that packaging, because you spent that on a billboard.

spk_0 You think that's really ultimately going to determine the success of what you're doing.

spk_0 It's not. You're going to make some bad decisions. You're probably going to make some horrible

spk_0 decisions. The secret to success as a founder is to realize that you only have to make a couple of

spk_0 really good decisions, and you can make a ton of bad ones. Just make a couple really good ones.

spk_0 And the only way you make some good decisions is to make a decision and move on. Companies and

spk_0 ideas fail. Not because of good and bad ideas, but because people cannot make decisions.

spk_0 There's been too much time with too few decisions. Make more decisions. Don't sweat it. Learn from it.

spk_0 Move on. What was your advice? Because I think it's my number one, and I've said this so many times.

spk_0 My number one piece of advice from you is always make a decision and move on. But what do you think

spk_0 your advice is for people that hesitate too long, who make decisions out of fear and get it wrong?

spk_0 What do you say to people? Well, we're all wired differently. So it's easy for me to say to

spk_0 somebody who has a tendency to procrastinate, to make a decision and move on. But with so many

spk_0 things that we say, this is who I am. This is the way I am. I do it this way. I overthink. I procrastinate.

spk_0 And you use that as an excuse for not getting shit done is it's actually a muscle.

spk_0 Yeah. I'm not a fast runner. You see me run it. I run slow. It's not your thing. No, it's not my

spk_0 thing. But if I committed myself to it, maybe I could run a little bit faster. Right? So

spk_0 things that we know about ourselves, which we wish we could change, it doesn't make you,

spk_0 oh my god, I'm going to be the fastest, most aggressive risk taker that ever grays God's

spk_0 Earth. That's probably not going to happen. But you can develop that muscle and you can become a

spk_0 faster decision maker. You can become a bigger risk taker. You can be more in tune with what your

spk_0 God is telling you. You can develop a God feel. You always refer to God instinct and God feel.

spk_0 Can you just, what can you just talk about what that means to you specifically?

spk_0 So when we think about God feel, we think of that feeling we have inside of us when we're confronted

spk_0 with a decision or how we feel about someone when we meet them or a situation. Yeah, typically.

spk_0 Right? That's how we refer to it. So when we speak about it, we tend to also speak and think

spk_0 about it as something that's kind of given to us by God that it's just instinctively happens.

spk_0 I can't explain it. It's in my spirit. Yeah. There might be some truth to it. But your God is really

spk_0 your collective memory, your collective experience and learnings all inside of you that is forming

spk_0 that feeling. It's everything you read, every book, every article, every conversation you had,

spk_0 every wrong and right decision you made, that becomes your God. And it's a can not to be able to

spk_0 explain why you feel it. But you can feed it. And you can feed it by being a curious person.

spk_0 I spend every morning reading news for an hour. I read five, everything, yeah, five newspapers.

spk_0 I read things that disagree with it. I read things that agree with it. I listen to podcasts of people

spk_0 that I strongly disagree with and people I strongly agree with. I take in the false spectrum.

spk_0 I meet people whenever we meet someone together, you go, oh, here comes Yen's 21 questions.

spk_0 I'm always asking people questions. I always want to know. It's so interesting. Yeah, I just don't

spk_0 want to know like the surface. So all of that, you know, in my life, that's built up. That's my

spk_0 gut feel. All of its feeds, my gut feel. And I have learned to feed it. And I have learned

spk_0 to trust it. I don't need to explain it. I just have now, I think my instincts have got better

spk_0 as I got older. And the only way to explain that is to say, my gut instinct is a muscle that I have

spk_0 trained and I have developed. Can you think about a time when your gut instinct has led you

spk_0 down like the right path when you specifically used your gut? And it's turned out to be right.

spk_0 When I met Kim and she showed me what her early ideas around skims was. And she had an idea about

spk_0 a world that she wanted to build. I wasn't looking for a project. I was very happy. I had no

spk_0 interest in starting another business. I was kind of searching for a quite different chapter,

spk_0 I think, in life. But once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. Yeah, you couldn't not do it. I couldn't

spk_0 not do it. And it's not like I want to do something. And I never think that I've approached opportunities

spk_0 and investments and like, oh, I really want to do it. It's more like I wake up the next day and I

spk_0 think I have to do it. I cannot not do it. So I just had a gut feeling that what she was showing me

spk_0 was something that I had to help bring to reality. So it certainly led me right. But I would say

spk_0 more often I remember the times where I don't listen to my gut, where I let myself be convinced

spk_0 that I'm wrong, where I'm giving too much, let's say, grace partly because sometimes I can't

spk_0 exarticulate why I don't like something. It's not always easy in a nice way to say what I don't

spk_0 like something. Sometimes you see something, it just really like it. I don't really like it.

spk_0 So you can be convinced because I can't really like it. But if you really like it, then you go

spk_0 against that gut feel. It always turns out. Always turns out terrible. Do you think that you

spk_0 knew when you and I got together, did you think that you knew that we would like say in business

spk_0 together? Did you ever ever feeling about how our life would turn out together? Well, the most

spk_0 important thing has to be the most important thing. And if you're in love, being in love is the

spk_0 most important thing. So I didn't. I didn't think about business or what's going to happen next

spk_0 week. I was in love with you. So that was the most important thing. And that's that.

spk_0 Do you feel like there's stuff that I do now that drives you crazy as a business partner?

spk_0 Well, you drive me crazy as a business partner. That's my best friend and my wife.

spk_0 How so? I've learned as I get older, I have learned that we all have different processes.

spk_0 It's not for me to change you. That's not my job. And I'm pretty sure I do a lot of things that

spk_0 drives you up the wall. And I think the most important thing for any relationship, again, in love,

spk_0 in business is really to not keep using this word today. I don't know why you got to give

spk_0 each other grace. You've got to give each other grace and allow one another to be who you are.

spk_0 It's okay. It's okay. It's okay.

spk_0 You've heard me talk a lot about personal wealth and side hustles. And I'll be honest,

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spk_0 You know, before skims, I used to feel like bras and underwear were either beautiful,

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spk_0 That was one of the biggest reasons for starting skims, creating beautiful, but comfortable things

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spk_0 you place your order, be sure to let them know that I sent you. Select podcast in the survey,

spk_0 and select our show Aspire with Emigread in the drop down menu that follows.

spk_0 I want to talk about disagreements because obviously all partnerships, relationships,

spk_0 everyone has disagreements. How do you think that, especially in a relationship like Asp, how do

spk_0 you stop or how do we stop disagreements from becoming destructive, a work or a home?

spk_0 Well, it goes back to a little bit about who cares most. My ambition is actually not to have

spk_0 disagreements. Once you have a disagreement, it's gotten pretty far. So I don't like to get to that.

spk_0 I mean, you can have bickering. But I love disagreements. It's got to go pretty far to

spk_0 disagreement. That means that you're a point of view. I have a different point of view. No one's

spk_0 willing to give up their point of view. That it feels so strongly that we rather disagree

spk_0 than move forward. So I think disagreements should be avoided generally. But if you find yourself

spk_0 in the unfortunate situation that you have a true disagreement, you've got to take down the

spk_0 temperature, deescalate. And again, what's the most important thing? Are we going to lose our

spk_0 business, lose our love, lose our friendship over this? Is this the most consequential thing?

spk_0 Is everything really at stake here? And usually not. Almost never, right? Yeah, like usually not.

spk_0 Almost never. So what do you think if there's people listening right now and they are thinking

spk_0 about working with a partner or working with a really close friend? What's the first conversation

spk_0 that they need to have before saying yes or coming together? I think if you have to have the

spk_0 conversation, maybe shouldn't be partners. You know, I think that the best partners have a different

spk_0 skill set to you. You do different things. So the things that you do or the thing that Kim does

spk_0 or the thing that our partners do has to be different from the thing that I do. Yeah.

spk_0 So if you're the expert at A, it's going to be very easy for me to let you make all the decision

spk_0 as it pertains to A. If I'm an expert in B, you're going to let me make the decision as it pertains

spk_0 to B. You might advise me differently from what I want to do. But ultimately, that's my area of

spk_0 expertise. So I think if you're sitting with a friend, you're trying to figure out how to work

spk_0 together. You probably shouldn't work together. You've so already doomed. You're doomed. Yeah.

spk_0 We never had to sit down and figure out our roles. It's bloody obvious. Yeah. Basically. And

spk_0 but everybody I work with, it's pretty obvious. We do different things. Yeah. And you should have

spk_0 more so than some kind of agreement. At the Meyer, your partners for what they do,

spk_0 respect them for what they do. I worked with some brilliant creatives. I'm not as good as them.

spk_0 I admire them. Yes. I wish I had those skills. I don't have them. I admire. I look up to it.

spk_0 And I'm excited to see what they do every day. Yes. That's how I want to go to work. I want to be

spk_0 excited about what my partner is going to show me. And I hope they're excited about what I'm going to do.

spk_0 No doubt. I want to change gear a little bit because I am very happy that you that you're happy

spk_0 and open to talk about anxiety. And you have been pretty open about the fact that you suffer from

spk_0 anxiety. And I want to understand a bit more about anxiety as it relates to your career and your

spk_0 life and your business. Because I think that we're so much conditioned to see anxiety as a weakness.

spk_0 And I know you think about it as a superpower. So when did you start seeing it as a superpower?

spk_0 And will you just talk about it a bit for me? Very late. Probably in my late firties,

spk_0 we're really understood. And I did that through work I was doing with a highly spiritual person

spk_0 who asked me, I said, I want to change. I don't want to be this anxious person any longer.

spk_0 I want to feel whole. And he said, are you sure you want to change? I said, yeah, this is a negative thing

spk_0 for me. This is a big, you know, my days are heavy. And he said, if you change, it also will change

spk_0 who you are. You're not just successful because, you know, despite your anxiety,

spk_0 your successful because of them. There's so many positives that are driven and so many skills

spk_0 that comes from your anxiety that if you change that, you might not be as good as you are today.

spk_0 You might not be as good version. You might not be as an effective founder entrepreneur

spk_0 without it. Are you sure you want to lose that power? And that was, oh, yeah, I walked out of that room.

spk_0 I mean, Dr. Tran. Yeah, Dr. Tran. Nothing had changed and everything had changed at the same time.

spk_0 Yeah, I mean, I think that even just you saying it and I know that story so well, I feel like it

spk_0 is so important for people to be here because we all have parts of our personality that are useful

spk_0 or less useful, more useful or less useful. And it's not often, like we don't often put things

spk_0 in the right order, that we don't often understand how some of those things that can be troubling to us

spk_0 can also enable us. Yeah, and anxiety can be debilitating, can be crippling. And indeed,

spk_0 for many people, something that they need to get treated. At the same time, anxiety is a

spk_0 human emotion. It's a part of our human experience. We all have it. It's

spk_0 healthy to have a dose of anxiety. It's connected to fear, which is a natural human

spk_0 emotion reaction. It's our ability to feel love, sadness, joy. Inxiety is part of us.

spk_0 I have more of it and I have so much of it that for a long time in my life,

spk_0 every day was just harder for me than it was for other people. And I kind of started every day

spk_0 at a negative. Yeah. Right. So I had to overcome that to do anything. I had to overcome anxiety to

spk_0 meet people. I had to overcome anxiety to get out in traffic, to get on an airplane, to be on my own.

spk_0 So I always was so it was exhausting. It was really, really exhausting and still is

spk_0 often exhausting. How do you know when anxiety is fueling you versus controlling you these days?

spk_0 I think it does both for better or worse. But I don't judge myself for having anxiety anymore.

spk_0 I accept it. I see it as a wave. And when it comes, it can be imposing. And in the middle of the wave,

spk_0 you feel hopeless. But I know the wave is going to wash over and I know there's still the water

spk_0 still on the other side. So what am I going to do? Never get in the ocean. It's that better.

spk_0 Where am I going to start getting scared of the sand? You know, the problem, and I'm sure other

spk_0 people, if anyone listens to this, who suffers from anxiety, and I'm sure many do, the more you tailor

spk_0 your life to avoid situations which makes you anxious, you're getting anxious in lesser situations.

spk_0 When you lower the bar, that becomes a new bar. You need to lower it again. And life gets smaller

spk_0 that way. It's a very tricky subject. Everybody have their own journey. And I can only speak

spk_0 on my experience. I'm not saying that's translatable to other people. They have to have their

spk_0 journey. And they know themselves best. I can only speak on mine. But my personal experience is

spk_0 that I do better when I challenge it. I wonder what tools keep you most grounded when the anxiety

spk_0 flares up. Like how have you learned to cope? Being honest with the people around me. Yeah.

spk_0 I didn't grow up in an environment where you could show fear. I didn't grow up in a community

spk_0 or a culture where that was accepted, not in the school, where that was accepted, not in the

spk_0 friend group, where that was accepted, or even a thing. So I mean, to a certain extent, I don't

spk_0 even think that I understood anxiety until I met you. Because it's just not a factor in my life.

spk_0 And certainly not something I grew up speaking about. And it wasn't until I was in a relationship

spk_0 with you that I understood anxiety to the extent I understand it now. Right. So I think myself,

spk_0 like many others, when you have yourself from dyslexia. Yeah. Okay. So you develop tools

spk_0 to get through school. And low things you did and low fake outs and ways for it not to show

spk_0 or to get through your day and get down what you needed to do. Absolutely. Okay. Still using.

spk_0 Right. And I still use mine. So I had developed tools to deal with my anxiety. And what I learned

spk_0 for me is that I needed an out. I needed an emergency exit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I would find ways

spk_0 to reassure myself that I was able to leave the situation if I needed to leave it. And if I knew

spk_0 I had an escape plan, I had a much easier time getting through that way. Totally. So I developed my tools.

spk_0 But what has helped in adult age, as I'm living in a in a different time in a different culture,

spk_0 where we are so much more open and generous with one another, I learned to be very open about how I feel.

spk_0 I went on this podcast right now and I said I'm nervous. And when I can sit in front of you and say,

spk_0 I'm the most nervous. I've been for 15 years having this conversation with you. And I can say that

spk_0 on camera, well, that diffuses my anxiety. Yeah. Because if I'm putting it out there, what do you have

spk_0 on me? Taco. The other thing that I've done is to surround myself with people that know how to support

spk_0 me when they see it's happening. They know the signs. And I have these sayings in my head when I

spk_0 used to go in for a meeting that was consequential. You know, when I was in the art business, you have

spk_0 to pitch for work. So you constantly have to put yourself in really uncomfortable position,

spk_0 fly across the world, get into these hot ass meeting rooms when people get treated like shit,

spk_0 present your work, sometimes being belittle, and millions of dollars is at stake. And at times,

spk_0 in the early days, the company was at stake. Yeah. That's a pretty anxious place to be, even if you're

spk_0 not suffering from anxiety. That's a really anxious, you know, high strung. So I am blessed to have had

spk_0 people around me that say, this isn't the end of the world. They've got nothing on you. If it

spk_0 doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, there's always tomorrow. There's always another client. There's

spk_0 always another flight. There's always another meeting. They helped me diffuse it. As I got older and

spk_0 and even more confident, all those things live in me. Yeah. And I think part of why I have pursued

spk_0 success for lack of better words in life is to create a environment in which I feel I always have

spk_0 the option to live. I think they call it fuck you money. I think that's what they call it for sure.

spk_0 So I don't want to be crude, but no, it's true. I'm a very happy person.

spk_0 It's suffering from anxiety and I've been able to create a life partly because of it, partly because

spk_0 of the tools that which we haven't really touched on, which I actually think is the super power in

spk_0 anxiety, not just the meditating side of anxiety. So if you don't mind, can we talk a little bit about

spk_0 please? I'm dying for you to because I think that if you're a young founder, you're a young leader,

spk_0 you're just anyone who has anxiety. You need to understand that. I know it's been a breakthrough for

spk_0 you. Well, you said earlier in this conversation how I don't like to big things up. I'm always

spk_0 moving on to the next thing. I'm always thinking about tomorrow. I'm not really worried about today.

spk_0 But what do you think that comes from? What do you think that comes from? My fear, which is

spk_0 essentially what anxiety is, is a sense of irrational fear. My fear is always driving me

spk_0 to see around the corners. Yes. I'm not buying the BS, okay, you love me today. You won't love me

spk_0 tomorrow. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to focus on tomorrow. So that's where my

spk_0 focus is going to be. That comes from a place of anxiety, but it actually is a superpower

spk_0 to constantly live and plan and work in the future because you're signing it allows you to see

spk_0 around the corners. Totally. You can call the play before it's even happening. We are all the main

spk_0 characters in the movie of our life, right? So we most of us believe every moment is here to stay

spk_0 when people tell us nice things. We tend to really believe they meant them and that they really

spk_0 thought about what they said. It's nice to be an optimist. It's less gratifying to be a pessimist.

spk_0 If you're married to an optimist, you've got some slides. You lift me up. You know, you lift me.

spk_0 But the positive is that you are more objective, you're more realistic and you don't tend to get

spk_0 sucked into these vortex where you start trying to feed your own ego. Your ego isn't as important

spk_0 for an anxious person. You're swimming. You're trying to keep your head above the water. I'm not

spk_0 surviving. I'm trying to live. So if I'm just thinking about living, you've got no time for the

spk_0 bullshit. I'm not going to think that I'm that special because I'm a drown. And that's the feeling.

spk_0 The feeling is I'm trying not to drown. So it's easy for me to be objective. It's easy for me to

spk_0 cut through the crap. It's easy for me to transform myself because my fear of being stuck

spk_0 or my fear of being left or my fear of drowning is for greater than my fear of what's tomorrow.

spk_0 Tomorrow holds promise for me. Tomorrow is exciting for me. Wow. Do you think you can do the same

spk_0 thing with people because of your anxiety? Do you think that you see things that other people miss?

spk_0 I think anxious people tend to be really great readers of other people. You're so aware

spk_0 all the time of your surroundings because instinctively you're just looking for threats.

spk_0 It's like a primal thing. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. This is we're from the animal kingdom. This is a

spk_0 primal thing. I'm just wired to look for threats. I'm the lookout guy. You're the caveman.

spk_0 Totally. I hear you want me to look out tower. Yeah. Totally. I'm looking at every leaf. What moves?

spk_0 I'm literally why, Marigay. Yeah. So yeah, you become really good at reading people, reading

spk_0 their intentions, understanding what they want. Yeah. And it's a superpower. But you speak a bit

spk_0 about this with me. Like about paranoia. Right? Like you talk about your own paranoia and how

spk_0 that's allowed you to make good decisions, good investments, Eva. Yeah. Give me an example of where

spk_0 that type of paranoid mindset has paid off for you. Well, it's paid off because I have always moved on

spk_0 at a moment where I could have stayed. Right. I have always planned for the next chapter

spk_0 while I was in my current one. I have a red thread for my work because of my love for popular culture,

spk_0 for my love of fashion, for my love of retail, for an aesthetic that I gravitate towards.

spk_0 So there's a this podcast is not long enough for me to lay out. However,

spk_0 one of the first influencer platforms to starting a jeans company co-founding of skims. Like all of

spk_0 that might seem like, oh my god, you've done so many different things. I think I've have just done

spk_0 various expressions of the same thing. Yeah. That's how I can say that. So it's not like I think that

spk_0 I'm like, oh my god, this ship is sinking. I'm going to jump off this. It just means that I'm

spk_0 excited about where the future is going and my eyes are open for the next opportunity.

spk_0 So when I see that opportunity, I want to take it. So if you are, if you're young now and suffering

spk_0 from anxiety, what based on your experience, would you say to me, what's the best thing to do?

spk_0 Just go after your dreams. You have to go for your dreams.

spk_0 If you fail, at least you did it. Now your life becomes smaller if you don't try.

spk_0 Your life and your experience becomes bigger. If you go for it, you have to change yourself

spk_0 and it can be really, really difficult. But that doesn't mean you have a choice. Just do it.

spk_0 I want to talk to you a little bit about more personal life.

spk_0 How do you want some personal enough for you? More personal life. Because they're like digging further

spk_0 into personal life. I feel like you're finally getting to know me. I've had a lot of time for this

spk_0 conversation. I wonder if we go to conflict. I've got so many things that I wanted to talk to you about.

spk_0 What do you think Yen's is the hardest part of being married to somebody as ambitious as me?

spk_0 I've never been married to anyone else. It's hard to compare.

spk_0 And I wouldn't want to be. Your ambition is part of what I fell in love with.

spk_0 You couldn't take that out of you and it to be you. But I think in any relationship

spk_0 when you have two parties that are highly ambitious, it's more about allowing each other

spk_0 the moment. There was a moment when you were starting this podcast in the spring

spk_0 where that was your moment. The energy around you in your home. I'm sure nerves that you felt

spk_0 going through a transition or adding something to what you wanted to do and put yourself out there

spk_0 in a different way than you've done in the past. It's pretty nerve-wracking. It's going to consume a

spk_0 lot of energy. It's going to consume a lot of conversation. At that moment in time, it's going

spk_0 to be all about you. That's okay. It's going to be about you. What can I do? What's best for me

spk_0 is if, and I remember thinking this, the best thing is for Emma to be successful at whatever she

spk_0 wants to succeed at. Because God forbid you aren't. I'll have to listen to this for years.

spk_0 But if we lean in here, I'll let her have this moment. We can get back to you. We can get back to you.

spk_0 No, no. No, no. I'm just aside. You have to know when it's something is important to the other

spk_0 partner. Like so much of what we're talking about today really comes down to grace knowing each other

spk_0 and allowing this is important to you. This is important to me. If you care, if this is your moment,

spk_0 if you care about this, I'm going to get behind you. I'm going through something that's important to

spk_0 me. You'll recognize that and you'll get behind. Yeah. I feel like once you've been together for

spk_0 as long as we have for 17 years, there's seasons to this shit. It's like sometimes it's all about me,

spk_0 sometimes it's all about you. Sometimes there's a clash. I think the point is that we are

spk_0 in constant conversation about these things and it's not just like a realization that, oh,

spk_0 this person's traveling and sucking all the air out of the room and everything's about them now,

spk_0 it's usually a conversation and an acknowledgement that this is a period that's about to happen in

spk_0 our notes. And I think that we have a level of just a lot of honesty in our relationship and a

spk_0 reality of what is going to happen. We're not trying to kid ourselves about it.

spk_0 Yeah, but that's also part of who we are. This is a hard thing to teach people.

spk_0 I think, you know, I think if I was married to someone who was about themselves all the time

spk_0 for 16 years, I don't think it would last that long. Yeah. You know, it's kind of, that will start

spk_0 grading on me a little bit. So that's just not who you are. If you were that person,

spk_0 I wouldn't be you and I wouldn't be with you. You know, you are outside of work, a sensitive,

spk_0 highly tuned person and a great and loving and supportive wife to me. And I recognize that and

spk_0 I want to be all of those things to you. And you are. Yeah, I try. I mean, that doesn't mean we

spk_0 get it right all the time. Well, no, we don't get it right. It's not right all the time. But you know

spk_0 what? That's okay too. People talk about this. It's not like everything. It's always in balance.

spk_0 Actually, life tends to be like an EKG. It's never really in balance. It's not really in balance,

spk_0 but there's like, you don't talk to me about balance. But there's, but there's some kind of medium

spk_0 in it. There's a kind of an average. Yeah. Yeah. You take the average like somewhere across the,

spk_0 you know, across the life, across the time, like there's going to be like I'm more often than not

spk_0 wavelength. And it's like, are you comfortable with that? Yeah. Jerry Seinfeld said something in an

spk_0 interview a while back. And he said, you know, we both of us go for a day. Okay, we have a good

spk_0 morning. We have a shitty afternoon. We're somewhat of a good moment that dinner may be

spk_0 bad again. Then we're good again. It's life is not a, we're not in this equilibrium. No,

spk_0 but that's the problem because I think so many people are looking for equilibrium and they don't

spk_0 get it. And then they want, you know, it's like again, I don't expect to always be in the most

spk_0 joyful, incredible, magical moments with you. And after 15 years, I'd be very disappointed.

spk_0 But that's part of it, right? Because if we, I mean, again, let's talk about conflict a little

spk_0 bit because I think a lot of people want to understand about it. If we have conflict at home,

spk_0 how do we make sure that it doesn't seep into business and vice versa? Like how,

spk_0 how do we manage conflict within our relationship? I'm going to tie this to what we just discussed.

spk_0 Yeah, please. What's the most important thing here? Like what's the most important thing? And

spk_0 you can have levels to a relationship. I don't have just one level of my relationship with you

spk_0 or anyone else. I have some people do. Some people, it's like just one bucket. Yeah, no, we have not,

spk_0 no, that's not my people. Yeah, but some people just have one bucket. Oh,

spk_0 I have levels to a relationship. And there's a work level. But that has nothing to do with the

spk_0 fundamentals of my relationship with you or anyone else. I'm in love with you. That's the

spk_0 most important thing. Okay, so that's here. Okay, so now we have this work level. It might

spk_0 as a disagreement. But that's really got nothing to do with all the fundamentals of our

spk_0 relationship or my relationship with anyone else for that matter. Yes, but I think you know,

spk_0 I'll talk about you with different hats. You with different hats, but for a lot of people,

spk_0 that's very hard to understand. And for me, I'll be totally honest with you. When I first met you,

spk_0 that was hard for me to understand. I didn't understand how we would have a massive conflict in work,

spk_0 which you and I have and continue to have sometimes. And then get home and it will be fine. But I do

spk_0 think that that is the point. Like we have different hats and we are very, very, very, very good

spk_0 at leaving it where it is. Like it's not personal. Like with you, it's never personal.

spk_0 Emma Boxer's Shake hands at the end of the match. Some of them, yes. Some of them, like the whole

spk_0 crew just like jumps in the ring and they all go fucking mental. Like so it's not every one.

spk_0 I'm very good at it. Hopefully not. No, but I mean, Boxer's Shake hands, what I'm trying to say is

spk_0 that when I'm on the pitch, when I'm on the court, when I'm at work, I'm there to fucking win.

spk_0 I'm going to focus on what's going to make me win. What's going to make us win?

spk_0 What do I need to do to get to the best result? So just like there's a scuffle on the court,

spk_0 it doesn't mean that when you watch a game on a TV, that those guys are taking that off the court.

spk_0 You know, some pushing and shoving on the court is part of playing basketball. Doesn't mean

spk_0 that they're not friends. It's the same thing. You know, when I'm at work, I'm in the game.

spk_0 When I'm at home, I'm out of the game. Why would I bring the game home?

spk_0 Just because you gave me a little elbow under the basket doesn't mean I'll take that

spk_0 shit home to roast chicken and potatoes. It's true. Thank you. I'll give you that to do work.

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spk_0 overnight, or arrays, wrinkles instantly, and then you check the fine print and no science anywhere.

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spk_0 Get 25% of your first month for a limited time at ritual.com slash emmer.

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spk_0 of your first month.

spk_0 How do you think about everything that you've learned in your life and career and your business

spk_0 and our kids? When you think about, I do want to talk to you about money a little bit because I

spk_0 love to talk about money, but when you think about risk, resilience, the things that have made you

spk_0 in and around your career, how do you think about that as it relates to the kids?

spk_0 I want my children to write their own story. You know Lola said that to me once.

spk_0 When I tell her to come to skins and work, she's like, no, Mummy, I'm going to write my own story.

spk_0 Now I know what you want. I don't want children who defines themselves by their parents.

spk_0 Amen. I want them to be them.

spk_0 How do you foster that? How do you do it? You do you?

spk_0 I don't know. I don't know how you foster it other than leading by example. Generally, I think

spk_0 children are magical and there's a part of you and there's a part of me and the part given by God.

spk_0 And they are their own people and we're there to give them love and support and share our experiences

spk_0 and encouragement. But they're going to be who they're going to be. But what I would hate is if

spk_0 they define themselves, if their identity in this world is rooted in their parents success or failure,

spk_0 why would I want that? Well, we are. I would be 100% aligned. Wouldn't that be incredibly selfish?

spk_0 In incredibly selfish and incredibly sad. Quite frankly. Yeah, but it's just selfish.

spk_0 Yeah. Do you have a moment that you think like I just wonder what you're most proud of as

spk_0 not really as a businessman but more as like a person, husband, father, Yenzi?

spk_0 Well, first of all, let me tell you that I detest a determined business man.

spk_0 But you do know that you're a business man. Yenzi, like seriously, you're grown up in the office

spk_0 every day, like just because you don't carry a briefcase, you are a businessman. That's how everyone,

spk_0 like all of your staff, all the hundreds of people that work here, that's how they see you. They're

spk_0 like, Emma's a business woman and Yenzi's a business man. Like you're not. Tough shit.

spk_0 That's something I will have to process. I think I fired my therapist for asking me to do things

spk_0 that I wanted to do. I wasn't willing to do the work. You want me to do the work? You down a lot of work.

spk_0 You can take breaks through your paradise. That's all right. How are you most proud of?

spk_0 Oh, I am the most proud of that I have. I think there was a time in my life when I finished high school.

spk_0 So I was around 18 and I had no plans and I wasn't particularly good at anything. I thought I was

spk_0 really cool. I was always out and about in clubs and this then and the other and the irony of

spk_0 our relationship, and they asked me earlier, it's like, tell us something that, you know,

spk_0 we don't know about Emma. They got you on social media, can we? They got some.

spk_0 And but I'll tell you something. They don't know about you, which is you're incredibly

spk_0 personable and you appear social. You're not a social person. Yeah. You're not a social person.

spk_0 If you're really good friends, you don't like going out that much. You like to be with the people

spk_0 you love. The same people with 20-per-year at home. Preferably. Please. Do you got?

spk_0 No one thinks I'm a social person. I'm the most social person. The most. All dinner reservations,

spk_0 all group activities, all things with our friends. Go via you. I have so many friends. I can't keep up.

spk_0 It's true. And I love it. And I love all of them. Yeah. I can do multiple drinks and dinners with

spk_0 different people in the same night, just to fit people in. I'd rather kill myself. Yes, you tell me

spk_0 that often. Yeah, I'm just going to stop with it. I'm just so coming. When I said, you want to come

spk_0 and you go, I want to come myself. I want to come. I'd rather come myself. I don't want to do it.

spk_0 So there was this time when I really didn't have a purpose and I felt that I wasn't swimming.

spk_0 I was drowning. In that moment, I think I had kind of come out into adulthood thinking somehow

spk_0 as a daydreamer that these daydreams were going to come true because I was I. You know,

spk_0 because I was special. It was going to happen. And then nothing happened. And that negative

spk_0 spiral starts. And from that point, and I can pinpoint the day time where I sat in the apartment.

spk_0 And I just realized that in the end of the day, and it's not because the world is a cold,

spk_0 loveless place, but people are really busy with their own shit and their own lives. And they

spk_0 don't care about you. No one cares more about you than you care about yourself. And in that moment,

spk_0 everything changed for me. I went from not getting into college, not having a job,

spk_0 being totally kind of purposeless. We had really low self esteem to having a column in the daily

spk_0 newspaper to being having a dream job, but the coolest magazine. And my whole life turned around

spk_0 and within two, three years, I was in London within five years. I had raised money, started the

spk_0 business, was starting to have some early success in life. So it's having overcome that moment in time.

spk_0 And being able to live my life and build a life that I can be proud of. That's the most

spk_0 important thing. Next company, the next idea and investment working, not working. Again,

spk_0 what's the most important thing? The most important thing is that I've built the life that I'm proud of.

spk_0 That's really meaningful. And again, when you're faced with adversity and life, I had what

spk_0 what people would refer to as a soft bottom, not a hard bottom. It's not like you've

spk_0 fully crashed out, but it's a soft bottom. I'm grateful for that moment because I discovered a

spk_0 power in myself in that moment at the time. And I had never seen it or felt it before. I used to

spk_0 be lazy. I became ambitious. I used to be waiting. I became active. All of these traits that

spk_0 just had dragged me down was turned into this positive moment. So I think it was divine intervention.

spk_0 So knowing that what advice would you give your 20 year old self about both success and happiness?

spk_0 It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. I have been so worried about so many of my friends,

spk_0 but I was in my 20s. It all worked out. We were in our early 20s. We didn't have no money. We never

spk_0 understood how we would be able to afford an apartment. Things were going to happen for us.

spk_0 And somehow for all of us, and you know many of them, it all worked out. It worked out.

spk_0 Then you cannot see it. You sit at home. You scribbling. You turn and figure out how I

spk_0 used to think that my whole 20s, how am I ever going to be able to own a property? I couldn't

spk_0 make the math work. And I didn't have the money for a deposit. I worked out. But I might be an

spk_0 outlier on that scale. But I'm just saying generally, it works out. For most of us, if we're at it,

spk_0 if we do the right thing, if we try to do the best with a talent we have, again, I've never seen

spk_0 anyone fail, it works out. So if it all went away tomorrow, like everything, the businesses, the

spk_0 money, the whole lot, what's the first thing that you would do? I guess I would have to take an

spk_0 unpaid internship here at the Spocker. Do it all again. Try to prune my value. We would take you.

spk_0 Prune my worth. Again, if you don't have money, you have your human capital. You have you.

spk_0 So you put that to work. I mean, watch out Joe Rogan. If Jens comes to work for us, I mean,

spk_0 I think what do you think success feels like today versus when you started?

spk_0 Well, they keep moving the gold posts for me. When I was young, I could never have imagined

spk_0 the life that I lived today. That would have been foreign beyond my greatest expectations.

spk_0 But as you do things in life, the gold posts shift a little bit. So what success looked to me when I

spk_0 was younger or 10 years ago and what they looked like today, of course, they have changed.

spk_0 And I like to keep them to myself. And the reason I want to keep my ambition to myself,

spk_0 it's an emergency exit. If you don't know it, I don't feel put upon. I don't feel boxed in.

spk_0 I don't feel scared of failure because the only one that would see it is me.

spk_0 So I rather keep what success looks like to myself. But I can tell you, I remind myself all the time

spk_0 about how lucky I am to be where I am today. And if nothing more happened,

spk_0 and if I cheap nothing else, I would still be overjoyed with the life that I built.

spk_0 Yeah. Damn it. You got to leave a little bit gratefulness. You got to leave a little bit.

spk_0 All right, one more little piece of wisdom from you Jens. If someone remember just one thing,

spk_0 one sentence from you, what would you want it to be? That if it's not okay, that's okay too.

spk_0 We all catastrophize. We all think that what we're going through is forever.

spk_0 You know, when you're a teenager and you're unhappy and loved, just like the world's ending,

spk_0 there's nothing beyond that moment. There's nothing beyond high school. There's nothing beyond that

spk_0 grade. And you can try to tell your children when you come home today, not to worry about how the

spk_0 first day middle school was. That's all they're going to worry about. Middle school is an eternity.

spk_0 Yeah. So, but it's going to be okay. And I think it's the most important thing for all of us to take

spk_0 with us that moments don't last forever. There's still water on the other side of the wave. And

spk_0 if you're going for hell, you've got to keep on going. So good. Okay, I'm going to take you to

spk_0 rapid fire. You're right at the end. Let's do it. All right, the first thing you do when you wake up,

spk_0 get you a cup of coffee and myself. It is very true. And thank you because I think that's the secret

spk_0 to a lasting relationship. Right. I know how you like it. Thank you. The last thing you do before

spk_0 you go to bed. Sneakly look at the news, waiting for you to tell me to stop because it's too late.

spk_0 Sure. I mean, normally I would say watching Frasier or Seinfeld or any kind of sitcom that we love.

spk_0 Yeah, which I love. I treated up. But we rewatching. I'm sneak a little bit of iPad news there.

spk_0 Yeah, I see it. I just let you do it. I just don't want that light near me. Yeah. I'm just like,

spk_0 put it on. It's unhealthy. No, it's not good. It's like I just like I put my phone in the other room

spk_0 and then there's somebody next to you with an iPad. I got a bed ready for tomorrow. I'm like,

spk_0 I know what's happening. Listen, don't we? Just now you are my news. I basically get all of my

spk_0 information from you. And I like that, the arc of your news, you know, it's the economist,

spk_0 it's the New York Times, it's the Washington Post, it's Wall Street Journal. And then you've got

spk_0 like the T for me, like, you know, some housewife is like something's happening with her. You know

spk_0 that too. So you know, if something would happen to me, I would know nothing. No news.

spk_0 Yens, what are you currently aspiring to in your business life?

spk_0 To continue to surprise and delight our customers. I want to do things that is unexpected.

spk_0 And when they think they have an idea about what skims is and what it will do next,

spk_0 I want to do something that surprises them. Do you think we're doing so good at that?

spk_0 What are you currently aspiring for in your personal life?

spk_0 I hope you.

spk_0 To have a hobby. You're not still on that one. Yeah, I'll never give that up.

spk_0 Yens, you play tennis, you like, what kind of you go to the gym all the time? You read a lot.

spk_0 Like what kind of hobby do you want? I go to the gym just for you to want to stay married to me

spk_0 and to stay alive so I can be married to you and be around for the children.

spk_0 Okay, thank you. I play tennis because it's the best sport.

spk_0 Long-distance. Long-distance. You know, cognitive decline.

spk_0 Damn right. Also, it's fun. Yes. And you're very good at it.

spk_0 It's a combination of both. Yeah, I got it. Don't say I'm very good at it because I'm very good at it.

spk_0 It's just really good at it and they know I'm not that good at it.

spk_0 No, I will say I think you're better than Pietro, not better than Jason.

spk_0 I am worse than both of them. Consider me worse and you're better than me.

spk_0 If you wanted to know what we could be arguing about, it would be the fact that

spk_0 they will ridicule me because I have a wife who loves me so much. She thinks I'm better at tennis

spk_0 than them, which I'm not. I'm not even going to ask you a book that changed your life because you're

spk_0 not really a book that changed your life type of guy. Are you? I have you to tell me what's in the books.

spk_0 And I have you to tell me what's in the news. This is how this partnership works.

spk_0 All right, this question I have for you. What is something that you valued when you were starting

spk_0 out that you no longer value? That's just not how I think. I can't even relate to the question.

spk_0 What do you mean, value? Okay, it's like some people value other people's opinions. Some people

spk_0 think that money is the goal. Like, what's something you thought was important back in the day?

spk_0 Then or it just explained to us how your brain does think. Okay, something that I thought was

spk_0 important to be everywhere, to be seen. People think that showing up like, oh, I'm at this event,

spk_0 oh, I've got to be seen here. I'm going to be at this dinner. And they think that somehow success

spk_0 comes from being seen. Success and being seen as almost unless you're in the public eye and the

spk_0 public eye is your business. It as far as business success. Zero correlation. There's no correlation.

spk_0 Zero correlation. In fact, I think one of the things that is my, I was in my red flag for

spk_0 investing in companies and in founders. If you see them attend too many conferences.

spk_0 Because if you want to go to a conference and everybody to go, oh my god, I love what you do.

spk_0 I love your startup. If you spend all that time talking about something, when you have like

spk_0 20 stores or sold in one retailer because you have like a snicker-doodle brand and

spk_0 that's popular in Whole Foods. Like, no. Don't like that. Yeah, because you're too in love

spk_0 with the idea of being successful, being in love with the work. If you're in love with the work,

spk_0 success comes. You'll have time to talk about it when you really have something to be proud of.

spk_0 But don't take this thing and like spend all this time talking about something. Do you have yet

spk_0 to create? Create it and talk about it. Okay. What's something that you value now

spk_0 that you didn't value when you were starting out? Meditation. Meditation. Meditation. I think meditation

spk_0 is the greatest tool to find clarity, peace, give you energy, joy. I wish I had found meditation

spk_0 earlier. I found prayer when I was a child. But I would say meditation to me,

spk_0 has given me a lot in the last five years. I mean, I've been doing it for a long time,

spk_0 much longer than that. But you become really serious about it in the last six years. Yeah, I

spk_0 practice it more diligently and in a different way. I really value meditation. It's one of my

spk_0 favorites. It's one of my favorite habits that you have introduced me to because if somebody

spk_0 is meditating in your room at 6am, it's almost stupid not to join them. And so I feel like it's one

spk_0 of those things that by virtue of you being really into it, I've got really into it.

spk_0 Yeah, it really works. I literally think it's a tool. For someone like me who's very highly

spk_0 strong, who's always on the edge, I feel like it's a really useful thing that just

spk_0 re-adjusts me and it works for the whole day. It's whatever you did. Whenever I've done it in the

spk_0 morning, I feel like my day pans out differently. Well, have you ever tried to run and play chess

spk_0 at the same time? Definitely not. No, but that's what we do, right? We run through our day, we run

spk_0 through our life and then we're supposed to, these strategic have ideas, process, make the right

spk_0 decisions, handle things. So how are we going to do that when our breath is up here?

spk_0 It's very difficult. It's very difficult. Meditation allows us to ground ourselves

spk_0 so we can make better decisions so we have better coping mechanisms. Again, you can't run and

spk_0 please chess at the same time. So I don't know why people think they can just run 24-7 without any

spk_0 time for reflection and reflection isn't just sitting down and like agonizing over what happened

spk_0 or agonizing over what's going to happen tomorrow. It's about allowing you the space for that

spk_0 intuition to do its work, to build them and you'll find a lot of peace and clarity for meditation.

spk_0 So if you don't, but also don't do it, I really recommend it. This is like a slightly different

spk_0 thing for this podcast, but because it's you, there's a bunch of questions from our team.

spk_0 Okay, and I just chose the beauty one. I thought I was nervous before now.

spk_0 No, these are easy. All right, first question from the team, they want to know, how do we keep

spk_0 the spark alive in our relationship? I mean, look at you. That's not hard. Good, artsy, NC.

spk_0 It's a lot of work then. Obviously you and I are very intentional about date nights, but I think

spk_0 the question is when two people are very busy, like how do you keep something like that going?

spk_0 And after 17 years, I think you just run in our places to go, like why do we keep them? How do we keep them?

spk_0 I think you have to consciously plan to do things together, but I often can feel like if we

spk_0 have a couple of weeks where we're little disconnected and we're all over running, I kind of feel like

spk_0 there's a hole. I kind of feel like there's a void and so we normally plan something and do

spk_0 something together. I think it's incredibly important, especially when you have children to have

spk_0 time just as a couple, because you're more than just parents and you're more than business partners,

spk_0 more than married couple, you're also best friends and everything else and you've got to give

spk_0 yourself time to do all of those things together. Definitely. All right, this is a strange question,

spk_0 but they want to know, what was the moment that you knew you were in love with me?

spk_0 I don't know. That's very you, answer. I don't know. I don't know the moment I knew, but

spk_0 when I knew, I fucking knew. I just never had less doubt about anything. I can't pinpoint it.

spk_0 You know, I don't know. You're you're you're you're very lovable.

spk_0 I know the exact moment on the other hand, but that's fine. I know. I'm so disappointed to ask

spk_0 this question. No, it was the least disappointing person in the world. Thank you, my darling.

spk_0 Thank you so much for having me.

spk_0 If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform.

spk_0 While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you love

spk_0 over friend who'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emigread is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host

spk_0 Emigread. Our executive producers are Karine, Gilead Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive

spk_0 producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leo Ristennis, Arsha Saluja and Jenna Weissberman.

spk_0 Steven Key is our senior producer, sound design and engineering by Bill Schorz. Angela Paluso

spk_0 is our booker, Original Music by Charles Black, video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney,

spk_0 Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Argoci, social media by Olivia Homan. Special thanks to

spk_0 Britney Smith, Sydney Ford, my team's at the lead company and WME. Maura Karin, Josephina

spk_0 Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meakall, Sean Cherry and Lauren

spk_0 Meak at Aspire with Emigread. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire ASP-I-R-A with Emigread.

spk_0 Or you can submit a question to me on my website emigread.me.

Love, Family and Business: How To Work With a Partner with Jens Grede

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