Legally Legit: How to Protect Your Brand as a Small Business Owner with Paige Griffith

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Welcome to the Girl Gang Craft Podcast where we dive in deep to all things

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spk_0 Hello, hello, Phoebe here your host for the Girlgancraft podcast. We are

spk_0 talking to the legal page today and this is exciting because I've been following

spk_0 her for a while and she reached out to me so we love that we love that so much.

spk_0 Let's see before we dive in to our episode with page make sure you shop our

spk_0 gift guide girlgancraft.com slash gift guide our last event of the year is our

spk_0 Maldon event and that is at the Maldon community senior stunner December 14th.

spk_0 So we are wrapping up the year comes yes in person and what else I hope you're

spk_0 taking a break the season that is my biggest advice for you I take about a

spk_0 three week breaks and I take a break off social media I tend to be like okay

spk_0 I'm gonna take a week off and then I end up taking like two weeks off of

spk_0 socials and three weeks off from work and some of that is like Roddy and I pull

spk_0 out my puzzles I got my little box I maybe sew some things we'll see I would like

spk_0 to learn how to knit and hat I can do the like knitting of straight things but

spk_0 I would like to take it up a notch so I might knit a hat we'll see and then I

spk_0 just sort of like think and absorb I think it's I'm laughing because that's how I

spk_0 handle everything but it is the most important thing you can do to rest to do

spk_0 your hobbies that don't have to do with your business to rot quote-unquote to

spk_0 like absorb so ideas can come to you our business needs a lot of work and maybe

spk_0 next year all like reflect a little bit about that but there were definitely

spk_0 like mistakes were made systems need to be revamped there's some stuff that

spk_0 we can learn from there's some stuff that was beyond our control like our

spk_0 double booking etc who knows who knows what next year will bring us in terms of

spk_0 everything but I'm going to chill and then take on everything so that that is my

spk_0 plan what is yours I do hope you can rest and chill in our world and maybe in

spk_0 yours there's not a lot going on quarter one anyways after the holidays so

spk_0 it's important it's so important to take rest when it like works in the

spk_0 schedule I'm not saying take rest now and wait out the holiday season that's not

spk_0 the smartest unless you really really need it right like this is our busy season

spk_0 this is where there's money to be made there's events to be done but like build

spk_0 in your break to a time that makes sense in your business I normally do a

spk_0 winter break and then I do a summer break also what do I have to say about that

spk_0 in this episode is about legal things about being legit and so this is

spk_0 something to think about as we move into the new year how can you solidify your

spk_0 legal rights and your legal protections etc etc as we carry on our business what

spk_0 else I'm tired I feel like every email I write you all is like I'm tired are

spk_0 you tired that could be that could be every email I send you so I'm really

spk_0 looking forward to feeling renewed and feeling energized about work life etc

spk_0 I think that's it for now but again I'm gonna take a three week break this is our

spk_0 last podcast of the season we'll start up sometime in January and yeah

spk_0 there's some stuff coming along down the pipeline with classes and courses

spk_0 and us helping you I really want to make sure that you have the tools you need

spk_0 to succeed we'll probably do a deep dive into all the tools that we use here

spk_0 at Brawlingcraft and I'll just say this we're gonna like focus on brand

spk_0 partnerships moving to quarter one quarter two to help you start to do

spk_0 brand partnerships or level up the brand partnerships that you already have we

spk_0 think that's important we want to work with corporations and get paid from

spk_0 corporations it can be bigger chunks of money than we're making from selling

spk_0 individual things at craft fairs are online and we want to find brands that are

spk_0 obviously aligned with us but it's a good way to make money and to round out

spk_0 your income my brand partnerships this year almost not quite paid for my team

spk_0 bills and that's great that's important so yeah we'll talk about all of that

spk_0 later so that's just what's coming along down the pipeline I hope you take

spk_0 care of yourself and let's hop into the episode page is the founder of the

spk_0 legal page a virtual legal educational platform working with small businesses

spk_0 she is a certified jurist doctor and holds a double BA in economics and political

spk_0 science after working as a federal law clerk page traded in the traditional law

spk_0 life for a virtual one and open the doors to legal page in 2018 she helps her

spk_0 clients and online community run legal and protected businesses through her

spk_0 contract shop podcast YouTube channel and blog her mission is to create an

spk_0 online space where the law isn't so scary and entrepreneurs can get legally

spk_0 legit in no time law aside page is a Montana mom who loves hiking lake time and a

spk_0 good game of Katan I didn't read that before I love Katan we didn't talk about

spk_0 that I love holiday Katan big board game people over here anyways okay let's

spk_0 hop into the episode make sure you're following us at Groggancraft me

spk_0 personally at Phoebe Sherman and subscribe to our newsletter for artist

spk_0 opportunities I love you all take care over the holidays let's get into that

spk_0 episode hello hello creative welcome back to the Groggancraft podcast today we

spk_0 have a page with us hello paid hi hi hi everyone welcome and why don't you

spk_0 tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do for work yeah so my name

spk_0 is Paige Griffith I am the owner and lead attorney behind the legal page we are

spk_0 a legal education platform for small business owners and we also sell

spk_0 contract templates on our shop so I like to think of it as like a one-stop shop to

spk_0 becoming a business owner and going to our website and just getting everything

spk_0 figured out that you could need and all of your questions answered legally

spk_0 speaking so you're stopping the whole going down rabbit holes online and going to

spk_0 various blogs and going to various sites and do I click on this sponsored thing

spk_0 and are they actually going to solve this problem for me so we have blogs we

spk_0 have podcasts we have YouTube's we have free resources that really just get

spk_0 business owners all of the information that they need in an easy digestible

spk_0 manner and then when they're ready to kind of do one-on-one client work or bring

spk_0 on additional workers to their business maybe you need a virtual assistant

spk_0 or an independent contractor maybe you're hiring someone to help you out of

spk_0 craft fair that kind of thing you would probably need a contract template for

spk_0 that and so you kind of build upon your legal toolkit is what I like to call it

spk_0 as your business grows and expands and changes from you getting it going from

spk_0 the ground up so that's a little bit about the legal page my background is

spk_0 actually in photography when I wasn't law school I decided why not I needed a

spk_0 break from reading and writing the law all day long and instead I decided to

spk_0 flex that creative side of my brain so I totally relate to all of your listeners

spk_0 in terms of we really like to do things creatively that's a passion of ours and

spk_0 we want to kind of turn that into a side hustle or full-blown business when I

spk_0 was in law school I decided to start a photography business and just flex

spk_0 that creative side of my brain but then it turned into oh my goodness I really

spk_0 really like running a business and I really like being an entrepreneur fell in

spk_0 love with entrepreneurship and then I realized during that period of time I kind

spk_0 of grew my photography business just beyond portraits and family sessions

spk_0 started shooting weddings got into the wedding and event world started going to

spk_0 conferences to learn a little bit more and educate myself I was a self-top

spk_0 photographer and at that time is when I specifically realized that oh my gosh

spk_0 there's a lot of people that are running businesses that don't know anything

spk_0 about doing it legally and they don't know what they don't know and they don't

spk_0 ask questions and that's just like let's shove it under the rug for another day

spk_0 I'm not totally sure so I'm not gonna deal with it right now and they kind of

spk_0 wait until the client issues a curve or something that happens I like to call

spk_0 them what if for sticky situations so I learned a lot going to those conferences

spk_0 and events and just being in the wedding and event industry and after law school

spk_0 I continued with my photography business I worked for a federal judge and I had

spk_0 a clerkship and then I decided okay do I want to go the traditional law firm

spk_0 route that academic track that I couldn't get off of or it was this beautiful

spk_0 thing in front of me that I loved being a photographer and running that

spk_0 business I was kind of doing two jobs at the same time but I loved entrepreneurship

spk_0 so that's when I decided I was going to build the legal page this was in 2018

spk_0 and I decided to give it a go and skip traditional law firm legal route I thought I was

spk_0 going to be a trial lawyer my entire life and I married my two passions of legal

spk_0 and entrepreneurship into one and that's my background on where the legal page got started

spk_0 I live in Montana as well with my family I have two young kids and my husband and we are both

spk_0 from Montana so we love it here our families are here that should be the round up before I am

spk_0 amazing thank you for sharing would you say that you mostly help entrepreneurs as well

spk_0 oh absolutely yeah anyone that is just trying to create something from nothing and make a little

spk_0 money off of it you've started a business and by default you are a sole proprietorship and then

spk_0 as things continue down the path of your business journey like you may want to become a more

spk_0 legitimate business and that's really who we are always speaking to and what kind of entrepreneurs

spk_0 do you generally work with creative business owners anyone in the service-based industry is kind of

spk_0 our main bread and butter of who we serve because they have client contracts that would make sense

spk_0 but we also serve all kinds of business owners like yourself so any crafters we serve fitness

spk_0 and nutrition professionals online coaches less brick and mortar businesses because they're more

spk_0 just they need employment law stuff and there's a lot of like not just signing client contracts so

spk_0 people who are servicing or going to events and doing something and there's a contract involved in

spk_0 that or they're working online and they have team members and various things going on and marketing

spk_0 your business online my dad's a lawyer okay do we things legally has been a part of my personal

spk_0 journey this whole time my whole life maybe really instilled in me we want to have our contracts we

spk_0 want to cross our teeth daughter eyes make sure we're safe make sure our relationships are safe our

spk_0 products are business etc anyways legality is something that I am familiar with but it still

spk_0 feels really scary and I know a lot of folks listening are like wait I need a lawyer for something

spk_0 what are some of those first steps to legitimize your business that's a hard one and I would love

spk_0 to discuss sort of the sole proprietorship LLC route and how you know when to become an LLC okay this

spk_0 is a really good question because it really is you don't know what you don't know and you don't

spk_0 really know what steps to take I'm glad you brought up the fact that you have a background and

spk_0 being around a family who has been in the legal world and I did not my parents are postal worker

spk_0 and this middle school secretary I had none of that until I went to law school I truly feel like a

spk_0 lot of us are in that boat where we're eager we're business owners we're entrepreneurs like we're

spk_0 hustlers and you kind of heard about LLCs you kind of heard about contracts you've kind of heard

spk_0 about trademarking and copywriting like what are you supposed to do and what's the most important

spk_0 and you can reach out to someone and be like what are the right steps what do the necessary steps

spk_0 that I need to take right now and what can wait for a few years from now what I always tell people

spk_0 when they're getting started is to take it one step at a time you don't have to do everything at once

spk_0 and I have a very different approach to becoming a limited liability company there's a lot of lawyers

spk_0 and CPAs out there that say you need to do it and you need to do it right away I am of the opinion

spk_0 that a lot of us don't have a lot of liabilities and risks when we're first starting our business

spk_0 and your risk meter just isn't super high and at that point you're okay to be a sole proprietorship

spk_0 I truly believe in that a limited liability company is really important from the get go if you do

spk_0 have kind of higher risk type of clientele or you're doing a higher risk activity such as a good

spk_0 example of this is adventure photography or adventure allotment photography and I know that's

spk_0 not necessarily people listening in but I think it's a really good example for people to be like oh

spk_0 yeah I'm taking clients on a cliff that makes sense that I should do all of these steps before

spk_0 other business owners but a lot of crafters for example there's not a ton of risk and liability

spk_0 in you doing you probably have the most risk and liability of actually creating it and getting

spk_0 things to the event that's okay to assume that risk yourself take it one step at a time you don't

spk_0 have to become a limited liability company right away but usually that is the first step in everything

spk_0 is thinking about okay started a side hustle by default in my state I am a sole proprietorship and

spk_0 you guys that just means you're an arm and extension of yourself as a person everything flows through

spk_0 tax-wise through a sole proprietorship you probably have an employer identification number through

spk_0 the IRS that's like the only thing you have maybe you don't even have that which is okay you're

spk_0 still a sole proprietorship you're not registered through your state and you just came up with a

spk_0 cool business name and put up an Instagram account maybe you bought a domain and put up a website

spk_0 or maybe you just this is my business name and I'm going to show up at a crafter if that is who

spk_0 you are it's okay your sole proprietorship and you will just file your taxes through your social

spk_0 security number that's that arm and extension of who you are and it's just okay there's a little

spk_0 bit of extra income that I've gotten from this business but I'm just filing it through my personal

spk_0 tax return so it's really low lift low lift for people to get started in the United States you can

spk_0 just basically start a business today if you want to then I always say as you start doing more

spk_0 making more money everyone always asks me for a bright line rule I like to think of it as okay

spk_0 we're making thousands of dollars every month beyond kind of just the hundreds of dollars every

spk_0 month of side hustle money that's where it just makes sense at that point to start separating all

spk_0 of your personal assets from your business assets because your risk and liability meters going up

spk_0 every single time you're making more money and doing more things in your business and being

spk_0 at more events or servicing more clients if someone like that is listening in again thousands of

spk_0 dollars like when you start getting into those numbers that's where I would make the switch

spk_0 and sometimes it's around one year in business you give it a go for the first year and then maybe

spk_0 you're even starting in the spring and summer and nearing the end of the year you're like okay what do

spk_0 I need to do for the following year to legitimize myself a bit more look a little more professional

spk_0 and that's just registering your business as a limited liability company in your state it's simple

spk_0 online registration process and they really just kind of hand hold you through it step by step

spk_0 and you can do it yourself please know that I always want to tell people it is definitely something

spk_0 you can do yourself who don't need to like hire out somebody and pay a bunch of money for someone

spk_0 to file your limited liability company registration online I will make sure that your listeners have

spk_0 a link to our guides so we have guides per state where we've gone on and gone through the process

spk_0 and screen-charted things for you and hand hold you through like this is what this box is going to

spk_0 mean and this is what this is going to mean so you can still do it yourself that means you're

spk_0 going to get all of the notifications through your state and it won't be left in some third parties

spk_0 hands that you don't know and they're going to charge you next year for yeah and LLC does have

spk_0 some more upfront costs in terms of you have to file an annual fee through your state and you have

spk_0 to file a registration fee at the beginning but a lot of times it's totally worth it because I like

spk_0 to think of it as the best insurance you can get for your business because you're separating

spk_0 those personal assets so all of your personal bank accounts any of your savings cars houses

spk_0 anything that you've worked really hard for you're separating that from your business bubble and

spk_0 an LLC when you create it is a bubble around your business meaning you have limited liability

spk_0 for negligent actions that occur within your business so all of those uh-oh situations that

spk_0 you are hoping don't happen there's any damages or liability there it would just fall within

spk_0 that bubble of the LLC so just the LLC bank accounts the LLC savings accounts your LLC insurance policy

spk_0 your LLC contracts that's all that's going to be within that bubble and so your personal assets are

spk_0 protected over here that's why people love becoming a limited liability company less it's pretty

spk_0 inexpensive to do in your state pretty easy to do in your state and you get that liability

spk_0 protection as a business owner and then you get to be registered in your state as well so I would

spk_0 like to take into that a little bit more I am not an LLC I'm still a sulfur prider okay and one of

spk_0 the things that my understanding about well for salt I was based in California California fees

spk_0 $800 a year that's how important in New York are the most expensive places to file an LLC yes

spk_0 my understanding was and still is maybe we can change my mind about it a little bit is that

spk_0 if I didn't have a lot of assets and I have insurance to protect me and other realms there's not much

spk_0 they can take from me no there's not yeah I don't know what are some of those exceptions I guess

spk_0 yeah I mean I would assume you're an exception here there's tons of business exceptions out there

spk_0 if you are a sole proprietorship you hit the nail on the head here which is number one job for you

spk_0 for liability reasons is to get business insurance if you are a sole proprietor in that respect maybe

spk_0 you're in California maybe you're in New York it's really expensive to file you're trying to find

spk_0 an alternative way to kind of legitimize your business and protect your business and protect your

spk_0 personal assets as well actually contracts are number one they're always your first line of defense

spk_0 and then insurance is your second line of defense and then even as a sole proprietorship you can keep

spk_0 a business bank account with that sole proprietorship so all of your judging income and expenses

spk_0 should still just be coming in and out of that business bank account that still really help separate

spk_0 your personal assets so you're not commingling things and then the other thing that I would do

spk_0 there too if you're thinking about okay I just want to be a sole proprietorship is thinking about

spk_0 registering your business name at least in your state so you can register it's called a DBA

spk_0 assumed name fictitious name trade name it depends on the state you're in they're all used

spk_0 interchangeably but it's a way to file for that name in your state so no one else takes it

spk_0 and you get that with an LLC registration so I just want to clarify that for people a lot of times

spk_0 they think they need to do both but what people are actually doing is reserving that business name

spk_0 first until they decide to become an LLC and that's pretty much it so what you did is totally fine

spk_0 makes total sense I think for a lot of business owners it's truly I want it to be 1,000 percent separate

spk_0 and when you're a sole proprietorship there is no way around the fact that you as a person

spk_0 and all of your personal assets are still at risk it's just how much liability do you really have

spk_0 doing what you do and every business owner is going to answer that differently if it's not a ton

spk_0 then I think you're going to be good with all these other layers of protection before they get to you

spk_0 in your personal assets and your personal bank accounts and all that stuff like it would need to be

spk_0 a massive damage situation that you get pulled into in a lawsuit which you guys is far

spk_0 in few between and I get that but I always want to tell people it's not an impossibility this is not

spk_0 a hundred percent impossible that's something like that couldn't happen for example I live in

spk_0 Montana it's $70 to file for your articles of incorporation and then it's like $20, $30 every

spk_0 single year that's way less than insurance business insurance that makes more sense for a lot of

spk_0 business owners and states along those lines where you could get a lower insurance policy but

spk_0 you've already got this LLC bubble around you so then your layers of protection or your contracts

spk_0 your insurance and then your LLC bubble does that help a little bit that's great and then you

spk_0 would jump into my next question also about protecting your name we have the fictitious name statement

spk_0 which is the name that I'm familiar with in California and then we can talk about trademarks

spk_0 I guess I want to before we talk about trademarks to what about those people who are doing online

spk_0 businesses do you have to register in multiple states what does that sort of look like that's a

spk_0 great question you want to register in the state that you are domiciled in which means where you

spk_0 are based at and where you live so for you you're still in California I'm in Massachusetts now okay

spk_0 this is a great example say you were in California registered in California you moved to Massachusetts

spk_0 now a lot of your business is happening in Massachusetts this is a really good example for people to

spk_0 know where you might have to be registered in two different places if you don't transfer or completely

spk_0 dissolve your registration in California and you were saying this makes total sense on why you

spk_0 were a sole proprietorship as well I will just tell people that are a little bit more nomadic digital

spk_0 online lifestyle I always tell those business owners stay a sole proprietorship for all intents of

spk_0 purposes it's going to be much easier but people who are more based in one location you would file

spk_0 your LLC there and then it's all about what's called a nexus in legal speak meaning how many

spk_0 transactions how many work events are you participating in in these other locations we're

spk_0 judging moments are happening there it's all a money thing it's all a tax thing to be really

spk_0 really honest with you state governments want to know how much business you're doing there and if a

spk_0 majority of your business is happening there or at least it's like more of a 50 50 situation

spk_0 then you will have your LLC registered in your home state and you will file what's called a

spk_0 foreign LLC registration in another state and that just picks up that you're also operating a

spk_0 business there this honestly it doesn't really apply to a lot of people they just can be in the

spk_0 LLC in one state do a little bit of business here and there and if you're doing it in multi-states

spk_0 then you're fine you just need to be an LLC in one state state tax laws may apply so just know that

spk_0 with various goods that you may be selling online digital or tangible products and I'm sure a lot of

spk_0 you are aware of that but just know the LLC might not need to be filed in all of these various states

spk_0 and that's cumbersome and nobody does that it's truly if you're just I would say I've spoken

spk_0 Washington and quarterly in Idaho that's a good example here of lots of people are on the cusp

spk_0 and there's business owners there that have to be registered in Idaho and Washington because

spk_0 they're just jumping over state lines all the time to do jobs and interact with clients in two

spk_0 different states but if that's not you you can just be registered in one state and you'll be fine

spk_0 so fascinating so helpful to ask what these things okay so trademarks I guess what is the

spk_0 protection difference between a fictitious name statement in your state and a trademark

spk_0 yeah so registering a fictitious name is not registering a state trademark so I want to clarify

spk_0 that as well so a fictitious name an assumed business name or a trade name or a dba in your state

spk_0 is just basically saying I want my business to be named x and hopefully you guys don't register

spk_0 anyone else that has that business name and it just kind of alerts the state that there's already

spk_0 a business name but it doesn't mean you own it and can claim a bunch of infringement things surrounding

spk_0 so you actually have to file a state trademark but I usually don't recommend that unless you're

spk_0 a brick and mortar like a beer company in one state that has a name that they don't want any other

spk_0 massive brick and mortar company to come in you would file a state trademark and a federal trademark

spk_0 but for all of us who are operating businesses online we have a website we're selling things online

spk_0 we're doing things in various states probably clientele coming from different states the name of the

spk_0 game here is federal trade marking and going through the United States patent and trademark office

spk_0 because then you'll get nationwide protection for that business name I'll just give you like a tiny

spk_0 bit of a rundown on what that means so lots of people do their business name some people do their

spk_0 logos if you've worked really hard on your logo and you don't want someone taking your logo and some

spk_0 people do like sub brand names or tag lines so a trademark is all about brand association you see a

spk_0 swish mark and you immediately think Nike so it's an association between a name or a mark of some

spk_0 sort an icon a logo that consumers start associating the goods and services of ex company with

spk_0 we all know them Coca-Cola McDonald's Adidas just the big ones that we all know but the legal

spk_0 page for example is a good indication of our name is just a word mark and it's trademarked so one

spk_0 no one else uses my business name to potentially point people in the direction of something that would

spk_0 be similar but they're using my reputation and goodwill towards the business and what we offer

spk_0 that would be infringement on the trademark and same thing if you had a logo or something of

spk_0 that respect so trademark registration nationwide through the uspto allows you to sue for automatic

spk_0 damages with anyone who is infringing on that mark so there's a lot of value in it there's a lot of

spk_0 value in it the minute that you register it continues to have intangible monetary value in your

spk_0 business the years and years and years that you continue to use that mark so if you are ever to sell

spk_0 your business trademarking at the very very beginning is really important so thinking about exit

spk_0 strategy is another reason people oftentimes file trademarks also just you don't want your business

spk_0 name stolen so making sure that if you have come up with a really unique business name that doesn't

spk_0 usually include a surname like last name sometimes are really difficult or like if it's a first in a

spk_0 middle name unless it's crafted together in such a way I hate to use my business name again but

spk_0 that is more of a unique catchy way of using a name where you could get federal trademark

spk_0 registration for it my past photography business page Marie photography that's actually very difficult

spk_0 to get registered because you're using someone's name that could be 10 20 50 other people's first

spk_0 in middle name kind of thing so hopefully that helps people kind of wrap their head around why

spk_0 you would do trademark registration and why I always push people to federal trademark registration

spk_0 versus state registration yeah one of the initial sort of pushes in my direction to get

spk_0 Gorgon craft trademarked was because someone had Gorgon craft as a user name on TikTok and was using

spk_0 our photos also I actually just recently looked and I can't find it so we never did anything about it

spk_0 but now I could I was really looking at it to see if it still existed and I actually couldn't find

spk_0 it so that's interesting I think one of the things that was the most interesting to me for the

spk_0 trademark process was this like idea of categorization I think that's really interesting because

spk_0 someone can have the same name as you in a completely different sector and that's fine so that's

spk_0 really interesting and then yeah just finding the other businesses that have similar names as you

spk_0 and the potential problems that that could bring about I guess a really interesting process yeah

spk_0 okay a couple points to that for people because I have some good stories there for example I

spk_0 knew a business owner who didn't file a trademark but had used this tagline over and over and over

spk_0 and over again and people really started associating that verbiage with their business they used it

spk_0 in all kinds of marketing collateral and things along those lines but it was a little bit more of

spk_0 a generalized term they soon realized in their business journey like no people are associating

spk_0 this with me you still have what's called common law rights and protections even if you don't have

spk_0 the full USPTO federal registration it costs thousands of dollars and a lot of time to do it is

spk_0 expensive there is a massive value behind it but I understand why people don't look into trademark

spk_0 registration right away it's not the forefront of their mind but this particular person because

spk_0 they did have a lot of common law rights to that trademark someone else went to file for it and in the

spk_0 United States it is a first to file situation where it is really important that you're at least

spk_0 filing your trademark even if it's what's called an intent to use I'm trying to dull this down

spk_0 domify it a little bit because I'm using a lot of legal lingo here it just means someone could say

spk_0 they intend to use that mark in the near future in the next couple of years so they don't have to

spk_0 show that they're using it right now in commerce even to file the trademark but their application date

spk_0 is really important to the USPTO this particular person had someone do that and they basically were

spk_0 trying to register a mark with this thing that this person felt like they owned and they were

spk_0 able to do what's called an opposition so even if this other businesses trademark registration

spk_0 or application goes through there's still what's called the opposition phase and if you're seeing

spk_0 that someone else is maybe trying to I call it trademark squatting or like trying to take a

spk_0 mark that you kind of already own you can still oppose it but it's kind of like trademark litigation

spk_0 so it gets very very expensive and you're talking tens of thousands of dollars now to try to get

spk_0 your mark and make sure someone else doesn't own it and then tries to sue you for infringement or

spk_0 tells you to take it down versus you might as well just pay at the beginning so that you own it

spk_0 from the forefront and then I just wanted to touch on the categories a little bit so dove chocolate

spk_0 and dove soap are a really good example of this we all know that those are associated with two

spk_0 different brands we don't see a piece of chocolate and think oh this is dove the soap company

spk_0 and vice versa in the USPTO world and my law firm file trademarks were an intellectual property firm

spk_0 all the time we do that all day every day when people are coming to us and we're kind of doing

spk_0 some research and giving them a clearance letter before they decide whether or not they want

spk_0 to file and we will come up with things like that like okay this is a similar trademark but there

spk_0 are 30 to 40 variety of goods and services so someone could be doing like an online software

spk_0 program and you could be doing photography services and those are so dissimilar of goods versus

spk_0 services that you may still be able to get the same business name registered or tagline registered

spk_0 I'm sure that was enlightening to you to be like okay yeah girl gang craft really unique interesting

spk_0 business name but there's probably a potential that someone else has something remotely similar

spk_0 maybe not the exact same but trademark registration it's also just based on likelihood of confusion

spk_0 and it's not you have to have the exact same name as someone else is there something even similar

spk_0 that could impact consumer minds enough that it won't be associated just with one brand so

spk_0 we could probably stop there I don't need to go down a rabbit hole here of trademarking but just

spk_0 good things for everyone to think about is they're coming up with unique business names taglines

spk_0 logos etc yeah I mean there were obviously other girl gangs but the craft was a differentiating

spk_0 and there's a girl gang in Texas but they're like more involved in real estate market there's all

spk_0 different little interesting things that you have to like make the case to have your name stand out

spk_0 and the craft made me stand out I don't know what the term was it for it was like a common name or

spk_0 something so there was some maneuvering that to be done sometimes they'll ask you to file a

spk_0 disclaimer like you don't own the word craft but you own girl gang craft all together as one name

spk_0 so little nuances there to trademark law but a lawyer will help you through that that's really

spk_0 well versed in IP very glad I hired a lawyer I know you can do it yourself you can file a trademark

spk_0 yourself but yep complicated yeah you definitely can I mean the USPTO has great resources if you go

spk_0 to that dot gov website and I'll just make sure that people can go poke around there and I'll link

spk_0 the tutorial for everyone they have good videos and walkthroughs from their office on how to do

spk_0 this yourself but I would say eight times out of 10 nine times out of 10 you're gonna get what's

spk_0 called an office action back from an examining attorney because something you did just wasn't quite

spk_0 right in your application and then you're really confused and you're gonna end up hiring an

spk_0 attorney anyway some people like to wait till that point and then try to backtrack and fix their

spk_0 mistakes but it's always better to like go in with the best application possible knowing whether or

spk_0 not you paying that filing fee is gonna be worth it and what is a copyright yeah so a copyright

spk_0 registration is all about works of art or authorship that are fixed in a tangible medium so we're talking

spk_0 here ideas being fixed a photograph is a really good example of this a copyrighted work usually

spk_0 it's a literary work a photographic work an artistic work where you might have an idea in your head

spk_0 or you're getting ideas from online but then when you put it in a tangible form you immediately

spk_0 own the copyright ownership over that there are massive exceptions to copyright law in terms of

spk_0 you can't own anything that is an idea that's basically a common usage and common understanding

spk_0 and information so it has to be very very unique but a photograph is usually they're also different

spk_0 the way you compose it the lends is that you use I just like using that as an example because when

spk_0 you click the shutter you're taking that idea and what your artistic style and vibe is and then

spk_0 you're fixing it in a digital form on that memory card you immediately own copyright ownership over

spk_0 to that so copyright laws is quite interesting in terms of artists because you automatically have a

spk_0 lot of copyright rights when you create something and fix it whether that's in an application

spk_0 and all of your ideas and the visual art is coming to life that is an artistic work that's copyrighted

spk_0 the additional layer to that though is putting that through the United States copyright office

spk_0 and filing a registration there for works of art books are a really good example of this movies

spk_0 those are the things that we commonly know that have the C with the circle around it with copyright

spk_0 registration but now that artists are becoming there's so many more artists out there it's easier to

spk_0 fix things and ideas and tangible mediums online through online software programs and platforms and

spk_0 things that you can do on your computer and your iPad just lots of people own a lot more

spk_0 copyrighted works now that's the difference between a copyright and a trademark hopefully that

spk_0 makes sense for people what can you do if your work gets stolen by like a bigger corporation

spk_0 yeah can you give me an example here and then we can walk people through the scenario

spk_0 so maybe copying like a shirt design or a claw clip design seen it on chien or teamu or another

spk_0 big corporation when you have proof of concept of the design first yes okay one thing I tell people is

spk_0 copyright registration is always a really good idea you might have like a trade dress registration

spk_0 as well we didn't get into that but that's like the tip in these box kind of thing is like trade

spk_0 dress if that makes sense people really associate that form with a business of goods and services

spk_0 so it's a little bit different than just an actual trademark or a brand name that could be in your

spk_0 world as well and people listening and trade dress registration is really important but copyright

spk_0 registration this is such a lawyer answer just bear with me everyone it depends sometimes there's

spk_0 so much knowledge out there on something that is being created and you're just putting like a minor

spk_0 artistic style tweak on it that perhaps that couldn't actually get registered through the US copyright

spk_0 office but you still have some common law rights to copyright ownership there so you're probably

spk_0 going to be sending some type of communication to these infringers and you're going to start by doing

spk_0 it yourself so I'll just give you the step-by-step process here first and foremost document the

spk_0 infringement and people always forget this they think that they don't need to gather evidence

spk_0 because it's always online ah no they are going to take it down as fast as freaking possible

spk_0 for the most part and if you don't document before you communicate with them you've lost gathering

spk_0 evidence in that respect document everything snapshot screenshot any type of email communication

spk_0 or checkout pages that they have things along those lines get all of the evidence improved that you

spk_0 can so that you can show that they were doing x without your permission and infringing on something

spk_0 that you created then the next step is informally notifying the infringer yourself you don't have to

spk_0 get a lawyer right away and I don't recommend it because when you hire a lawyer they're going to

spk_0 try to settle the dispute first to begin with anyway they're going to be sending what's called a

spk_0 cease and desist letter which a lot of us are very aware of and I just say try to resolve the dispute

spk_0 yourself oftentimes if you're just worried about someone like selling something similar online

spk_0 if you are emailing them with kindness usually don't lead with massive legal information in this

spk_0 email it's an informal email it's reaching out directly to them being clear being friendly but being

spk_0 very forthright with the infringement use that type of word I know that everyone emotionally gets

spk_0 really really concerned that someone else is doing this and they're ill will there's malicious intent

spk_0 there sometimes I promise you they just don't even know that that's illegal you know it's illegal

spk_0 but sometimes they don't and we need to lead with that understanding in this type of informal

spk_0 notification to the infringer because if they don't realize that they're using a protected

spk_0 design illegally I promise you they'll probably remove it when notified just try to lead with that

spk_0 assumption and try to take emotions out of it I was actually just talking with someone and this

spk_0 is a really good tip for people that don't know how to create this email use chat GPT to create this

spk_0 email for you use AI resources generative AI platforms can help you you can input things like hey this

spk_0 person infringed on my design this was my design here's the evidence that I'll be attaching in this

spk_0 email make sure that the tone is clear but friendly I want to make sure that I'm explaining the

spk_0 design is mine and request that they stop using it and you guys will be amazed at the output of the

spk_0 email so that you can kind of use that template email to adequately notify infringers that they're

spk_0 doing something against the law and against a copyright ownership that you believe you have next

spk_0 step is sending a cease and desist letter so that's definitely getting a lawyer on board it's kind of

spk_0 I like to say coming in with the big kahuna's if they're ghosting you if they're not taking things down

spk_0 if there are damages and you're seeing a lot of people are going over there and buying things from

spk_0 there of course it's probably less expensive that's kind of the world we're getting into where

spk_0 you have a really awesome product or artistic craft that you've created and now someone else is

spk_0 kind of dooping that design and so speak and trying to do it for less lots of people will probably

spk_0 buy it there and that's where your damages come into play and you can actually prove some damages

spk_0 there and that's what a lawyer wants to see when they're taking on a case like that is they have

spk_0 to be able to prove damages so you have to show that you're not just like emotionally connected

spk_0 to this and really upset that this is occurring a C&D needs to have some weightiness behind it but

spk_0 the lawyer letterhead the lawyer email getting an actual IP lawyer on board to protect your assets

spk_0 is always a good idea in that respect when a lot of damages are at play the last thing I will say

spk_0 is a DMCA takedown for like online infringement situations you can always file those through at C

spk_0 and various e-commerce platforms and that respect that are stealing designs you can always

spk_0 submit those sometimes they don't go through sometimes the platforms side with other people but

spk_0 it's always a good step and right step in your direction so there's just a few things before you

spk_0 ever get to a lawsuit we're always trying to avoid a massive lawsuit and bleeding money and paying

spk_0 hourly fees to attorneys I mean that's what we're here for that's what our profession does but we

spk_0 always want people to try to be as proactive on their own as they can to save money that's super

spk_0 I think we have a lot of information to sit on yeah where can we find you if we need help yeah

spk_0 so everyone thanks for just listening in I know that was probably a lot of information I always

spk_0 tell people when you're listening to legal talks take what you need and leave the rest you don't

spk_0 need everything I just talked about but whatever was really hitting hard with you take that to heart

spk_0 and maybe lean into that over the next three to six months to I like to call it become a little bit

spk_0 more legally legit as a business owner it's a journey it's not a destination you're going to

spk_0 constantly add things to become a better chief legal officer to become more legally legit it's

spk_0 not going to happen all at once corporations aren't even 100% legally legit that's why they have

spk_0 entire legal departments so you're always just trying to be a better more protective legal business

spk_0 and if you're in anything that resonated with you today whether that's sole proprietored llc or

spk_0 we're talking about trademarks or we're talking about copyrights or working in other states and

spk_0 maybe taxes and sales tax was like working at you you can always get more information from us at

spk_0 the legal page so it's the legal pai g it's a play on my name and you can do it at the legal

spk_0 page dot com the legal page on instagram we give really good bite size legal tips and then I will

spk_0 make sure that is linked for you but we have a whole free resources page and that might be a

spk_0 really good place for some people to start we have a 10 step guide to becoming legally legit and

spk_0 protect it as a newer business owner we have a trademarking guide if you were interested in that as

spk_0 well I'll make sure that you guys get access to all those free resources on our website too okay perfect

spk_0 thank you so much fans yeah thanks for having me and thanks everyone I'm really excited for

spk_0 your business journey thank you so much for listening to the Girl Gang Craft Podcast

spk_0 head to girlgangcraft.com slash podcast for show notes and more see you next time

Legally Legit: How to Protect Your Brand as a Small Business Owner with Paige Griffith

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