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How to End Bad Boomer Leadership

In this episode of Narejian Moderates, host Jessica Tarlov speaks with Amanda Lytman, co-founder and president of Run For Something, about the importance of new leadership in the Democratic Party. The...

How to End Bad Boomer Leadership
How to End Bad Boomer Leadership
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spk_0 Welcome to Narejian Moderates, I'm Jessica Tarlov, and today I'm joined by someone who
spk_0 spent the last few years building the bench for the future of the Democratic Party.
spk_0 Now she's written a book for those who are ready to step up and lead.
spk_0 She's the co-founder and president of Run For Something and the author of the new book,
spk_0 When We're In Charge, the Next Generation's Guide to Leadership, Amanda Lytman, welcome
spk_0 to the show.
spk_0 Thank you for having me.
spk_0 Thank you for being here.
spk_0 I want to definitely get into the book, which was awesome, and talk about some of
spk_0 the Run For Something candidates who we've been having on the pod recently, and just
spk_0 very excited about.
spk_0 But the big news is the government shutdown we're talking on day one of this.
spk_0 What are your vibes when it comes to the shutdown?
spk_0 Who do you think is going to blink first?
spk_0 How are you feeling?
spk_0 I don't know how this ends, because it doesn't.
spk_0 Well, here's what I say.
spk_0 I will hope that Democrats don't blink.
spk_0 I think that showing some fight right now is the right thing to do for the base.
spk_0 I think Chuck Schumer clearly understands this moment is different than in March.
spk_0 He cannot back down.
spk_0 Senate Democrats cannot back down.
spk_0 I'm a little concerned that already three all voted for the initial spending bill,
spk_0 which is a little alarming.
spk_0 But I am hopeful that Democrats will stay strong because Republicans control the House,
spk_0 the Senate, and the White House.
spk_0 It is on them to be able to get things to work.
spk_0 The job of a politician is to get your opponents to agree with you and to vote with you
spk_0 to build coalitions.
spk_0 And if they can't do that, they can't do the jobs.
spk_0 I don't know how this ends, because I don't see either side back and down easily.
spk_0 I don't know.
spk_0 What do you think?
spk_0 I know that I'm paid to have a good answer or to that question.
spk_0 But I'm unsure.
spk_0 I've been heartened to see Gillibrand and Gary Peters and Brian Schatz, who all voted
spk_0 for the initial, keep the government open in March, basically say, this is different.
spk_0 And we didn't know what governing under the Trump administration 2.0 was going to look
spk_0 like in the same way in March.
spk_0 And you could make the argument that they essentially operate as if the government is
spk_0 shut down whether it's open or not.
spk_0 You know, their, their, their, their, you know, party rule at this point.
spk_0 I'm watching New Hampshire, what, Jean and Hassan do.
spk_0 I understand the concerns, you know, Russ vote is scary.
spk_0 He's scary dude.
spk_0 And this is what he wanted.
spk_0 Like if you read Project 2025, which I wish that we had talked about that more in the
spk_0 campaign trail past August, I'm like, we kind of gave up that talking point.
spk_0 Um, this is a playground, right?
spk_0 He's gone to, he's at like six flags at this point.
spk_0 So that concerns me, but it does feel like Chuck Schumer got the message, especially
spk_0 from the base.
spk_0 And that leads us, you know, directly into the work that you do with run for something,
spk_0 you know, making politics more responsive to where Americans are and especially younger
spk_0 Americans.
spk_0 So how is run for something going in Trump 2.0 and you started right after Trump was first
spk_0 elected?
spk_0 Um, it feels, I mean, it is technically a long time, but it feels like 50 years.
spk_0 It feels like 10 lifetimes.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 So run for something was born of the ashes of the 2016 election.
spk_0 We launched on Trump's first inauguration day thinking this would be a small side project.
spk_0 We've got a hundred people who want to run like I was going to get to take a real job.
spk_0 I was a campaign before that.
spk_0 Um, we had a thousand people in the first week.
spk_0 As of today, we're up to nearly 250,000 young people who've raised their hands to say they
spk_0 want to run nearly 70,000 of them in the last 11 months.
spk_0 Amazing.
spk_0 So we've had more people sign up since Trump won in 2024 than we did in the entirety of
spk_0 his first term.
spk_0 It has been a huge moment for candidate recruitment for people looking around both at the Republican
spk_0 Party and the Democratic Party and saying, if these guys aren't going to lead, I'm going
spk_0 to have to get in myself and run.
spk_0 We've endorsed more than 3,000 campaigns.
spk_0 We've helped elect more than 1500 millennials and Gen Z to state and local office all across
spk_0 the country.
spk_0 We've won elections in 49 states.
spk_0 We're only missing Idaho.
spk_0 And it's a real building box of power.
spk_0 It's how you build long term sustainable power.
spk_0 And what do you do exactly for your candidates?
spk_0 So it starts with recruitment.
spk_0 We ask people to sign up at RunForWet.net to look up where they could run.
spk_0 Once they do, they get put into an online community that allows them to both interact with
spk_0 each other with experts.
spk_0 They go through some curriculum and some trainings on how to prepare to run either now or a couple
spk_0 of years down the road.
spk_0 They get invited to regular calls where we talk about the basics of running for office.
spk_0 They also get information about stuff our partners are doing.
spk_0 We work with more than 200 groups across the country, both local and national, to help
spk_0 candidates really understand what does it mean to run for office and how to actually execute
spk_0 on it.
spk_0 Once they're on the ballot, they can apply for our endorsement.
spk_0 And once you're endorsed, which we do about half the people who apply, our regional directors
spk_0 will work directly with you.
spk_0 It's a one-part coach, one-part consultant, one-part therapist.
spk_0 Do you need help getting the state party to answer your emails?
spk_0 Great.
spk_0 We know them.
spk_0 We will shake them down for you.
spk_0 You need access to the voter file.
spk_0 We can do that.
spk_0 You need tools for texting.
spk_0 We can do that.
spk_0 It is a full service soup to us.
spk_0 And then we stick with people post-election day.
spk_0 So our alumni community made up of our endorsed candidates.
spk_0 We helped them figure out their next steps.
spk_0 We stay in relationship with them as they think about running for higher office.
spk_0 We make sure that the folks doing recruitment for higher offices know these people are there
spk_0 and leading.
spk_0 We promote them across our network.
spk_0 We're really part of the long-term talent incubation.
spk_0 Yeah, you have some very prominent alumni, I would say.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And I want to talk about two candidates in particular that are running this cycle for
spk_0 Senate, Mallory McMarrow in Michigan, James Chalereco in Texas.
spk_0 We've had both of them on the podcast.
spk_0 I just saw James Chalereco's fundraising numbers for the first three weeks, $6.2 million.
spk_0 Can you talk about them in their journey and how you're working with them and why you think
spk_0 they're, that's like, 80 questions.
spk_0 But why you think they're resonating at this level?
spk_0 So Mallory, we worked with her in her first state Senate race back in 2018.
spk_0 We were her first endorser.
spk_0 And she often tells, especially when I met the room about how she took our endorsement with her
spk_0 two various other state and local groups who took her seriously because she was endorsed
spk_0 by run for something.
spk_0 She was just a mom wanting to run for office.
spk_0 She had Googled how to run for office and found us, found a merge, and got in the race,
spk_0 flipped that seat.
spk_0 And is now a very competitive candidate of the United States Senate.
spk_0 James was a middle school teacher in Texas who decided to run for state-ledged down there
spk_0 to flip a seat in the Texas State House.
spk_0 People often don't remember that.
spk_0 He did flip that seat.
spk_0 He held it in 2020.
spk_0 Both of them we've been in conversation with since 2018.
spk_0 I often describe my work as being the person who sees the band at the small club before
spk_0 they go through the arena tours.
spk_0 I know the people who are cool before they're cool.
spk_0 Both of them having very shared ability to talk like normal people, to so clearly know
spk_0 what they believe and to be interesting and normal online.
spk_0 I think it's actually a uniquely millennial Gen Z. They know we'll get into that generation
spk_0 a little bit.
spk_0 But I think because both of them have been online their entire lives.
spk_0 They have always had cameras around them.
spk_0 They have always thought about what it means to curate a public presence that is who
spk_0 they are, but with some boundaries.
spk_0 They understand that you have to be a normal, engaging human being.
spk_0 You can't be like a robot politician.
spk_0 Now, they're not fully aligned ideologically.
spk_0 They're not running the same kind of campaign.
spk_0 They both do talk about their faith, although for James, it is much more prominent in his
spk_0 work.
spk_0 They both talk about their family, although Mallory is like a mom of a little foyerold.
spk_0 And James is not a parent, not married, I don't believe.
spk_0 They both are so in touch for their communities.
spk_0 I think that's what makes them really powerful, even as they are very different.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 I'm glad that you brought up their policies or the ideology of this because I think that
spk_0 there's a big misconception that all young candidates have to be like wild progressives.
spk_0 And that's not the case at all.
spk_0 You just need to be the genuine article.
spk_0 To look and talk and seem like you come from the community that you are asking to elect
spk_0 you.
spk_0 It wouldn't make sense in Texas if we are to have any pipe dream shot of ever flipping
spk_0 that seat to blue for you to have the same politics as AOC.
spk_0 And I think what they both clearly have is a set of values that they hold strongly.
spk_0 They really know who they are and what they believe.
spk_0 And that more so than actually the specifics is what comes through.
spk_0 Not that they don't also have very specific policies they're advocating for.
spk_0 And they vote very clearly.
spk_0 Equal line, justice line, the pro-democracy, they talk about it very differently.
spk_0 They're prioritizing different policies.
spk_0 They are thinking about this as how they can best represent the places they're running.
spk_0 And if Democrats are going to win in places both like Michigan, Texas, and also New York
spk_0 and California, that's what we need.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 I'm a big fan of an officer.
spk_0 I work in conservative media, so I spend a lot of time with people on the other side of
spk_0 the fence, but I hate this rush to do ideological purities has or to jump on someone who's
spk_0 won a super competitive race.
spk_0 You might not love everything a list of slokken is saying, but could you have won her
spk_0 race?
spk_0 I don't really know.
spk_0 So I wish people would just stand back a little bit.
spk_0 I think it also, the ideological purity testing or even the discourse if you must believe
spk_0 this or that misses how people consume information.
spk_0 The way that James talks about wanting to fight for LGBTQ people versus the way that
spk_0 Mallory does versus the way that like Zora Mondani does, each of it sounds a little different.
spk_0 They're talking about different levers that they can pull.
spk_0 They're talking about it through a different lens, but because of who they are and their
spk_0 stories and the places they're running, it seems real.
spk_0 They believe it.
spk_0 And that's what matters almost more than anything else.
spk_0 Totally.
spk_0 You mentioned social media and I want to talk about that because it's, you know, it's
spk_0 the blessing and a curse.
spk_0 Right.
spk_0 We're all overly addicted and it's causing to my mind a tremendous amount of damage also
spk_0 in people's lives.
spk_0 What are you seeing in terms of how social is being used for politics, both in the good
spk_0 and the bad ways in what do you see as like the right sweet spot for how you can run
spk_0 a viral campaign and also keep people sane?
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 I think for the campaigns, we've seen candidates use it really well when they come off like
spk_0 normal people.
spk_0 So they use it the way that they probably would like.
spk_0 I think a lot of Chuck Schumer is probably never opened his Instagram account.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And I'm actually one of my favorite things to ask older politicians is like, what social
spk_0 media do you actually use?
spk_0 Like what platform are you on?
spk_0 What is your algorithm showing you?
spk_0 And if they don't even understand the question, that's usually my first flag.
spk_0 Like I want to know that my candidates and my leaders are the right amount of online.
spk_0 They need to be like just enough that they understand how they're creating content.
spk_0 They understand how people consume it.
spk_0 You need to be enough of a consumer to be a producer, but I don't want them to have
spk_0 the brain rot or like the world.
spk_0 Like I feel like I've got the worms where my brain is like all omelets and and toddler
spk_0 content on the internet.
spk_0 And it's not good.
spk_0 Totally.
spk_0 I think that the candidates were getting it right.
spk_0 I think Baller is really good.
spk_0 I think James is really good.
spk_0 I also think there's a good New York City Council member, Chi Oce, who's really, really
spk_0 good.
spk_0 Christian Menofi who's running for Congress down in Texas.
spk_0 Super compelling online.
spk_0 Zach Walls is running for Senate in Iowa.
spk_0 Super compelling.
spk_0 Moosalba Lee was running for mayor of Jersey City.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 Really, really fun.
spk_0 There's like a bunch of really cool candidates who are each doing it a little differently.
spk_0 And I think the thing that I really love about them is most of them are not doing like
spk_0 memes.
spk_0 They're not, you know, pandering to folks.
spk_0 They're not jumping on trends.
spk_0 I mean, like occasionally they'll do this sort of like music stuff, but mostly they're
spk_0 just treating their audiences like adults and they're using their social media platforms.
spk_0 Like any other 30 something.
spk_0 What do you think about, I mean, you mentioned Chuck Schumer and he's definitely had some of
spk_0 the cringiest moments online, I think of anyone, especially being the Senate minority leader.
spk_0 But then there are other boomer elected officials like a Mark Warner, for instance, who I think
spk_0 has made a very genuine effort to kind of get with the times, right?
spk_0 And he does his car videos.
spk_0 And he's gotten a little more professionalized about it and run for something is really
spk_0 focused on younger people, though.
spk_0 So where do you see the gerontocracy battle at this particular moment?
spk_0 You know, the gerontocracy is a scourge upon the earth, both in government and basically
spk_0 everywhere else.
spk_0 And I think we are at a tipping point for how it's going to change.
spk_0 There are record numbers of young people running for office this year and into 2026.
spk_0 I think we will see more of file.
spk_0 There's also, thank God, quite a few older senators who are retiring and making way for
spk_0 this exciting bunches.
spk_0 There are young leaders jumping into primary these older Democrats.
spk_0 I think the challenge is that generally speaking, there are certainly some exceptions here,
spk_0 but generally speaking, the older leaders in the Democratic Party have neither the skills
spk_0 nor the stomach to fight in this moment.
spk_0 Like, it took Chuck Schumer getting basically dragged for months, both online and in person
spk_0 and yelled at by donors to get to a point where he was ready to shut down the government
spk_0 to fight for our values.
spk_0 We've got to get candidates and leaders in there who have a really clear, I'd understand
spk_0 of who our opponents are, that the Republican Party at this moment is not interested in
spk_0 good faith governance.
spk_0 They're not good faith partners negotiating.
spk_0 This is not George W. Bush's party or Rob needs or John McCain's, it is Trump all the
spk_0 way down.
spk_0 And if you came of politics in the last eight years or came up to it, generally speaking,
spk_0 you see that really clearly.
spk_0 Whereas if you sort of have been in the Senate since the 90s or older, you have a misconception
spk_0 of the same way that we like the music, we like when we were 13, politics is stuck in
spk_0 the moment when you first engaged in it.
spk_0 Yeah, like going out to the sphere to see the backstreet boys, back kind of second
spk_0 moment.
spk_0 I absolutely do that in a heartbeat.
spk_0 A hundred words out in my head.
spk_0 My husband was like, let's go see the data.
spk_0 I was like, get out of here with, I mean, he's a weird and John Xer.
spk_0 But it seems as though there's this emergent theme and hats off to Bernie Sanders and AOC,
spk_0 who I feel like have really been pounding us with it.
spk_0 But you're seeing, I think some of the most powerful communication around the us versus
spk_0 them, not Democrats versus Republicans, right?
spk_0 Like the rich and the poor, the big guy and the little guy.
spk_0 I just had Dan Osborne on from Nebraska.
spk_0 He's running against Pete Ricketts this time.
spk_0 John Assof has been really compelling and impressing me with his ability to constantly bring
spk_0 the conversation back to corruption.
spk_0 And that's Democratic corruption and Republican corruption and that we have to be the antidote
spk_0 to that.
spk_0 He's a millennial as well.
spk_0 I think he's 39 now.
spk_0 Is that what you see as like the winning through line for these races and your candidates?
spk_0 It's definitely something that's coming up a lot with them.
spk_0 I know like really articulating the system isn't working.
spk_0 Or I've heard some even put it like the system is working.
spk_0 It's just working for them.
spk_0 It's not working for you.
spk_0 The system is working as is attended for the rich, for the wealthy, for the elite, for
spk_0 the people who are buying their way in.
spk_0 It is not working for normal people.
spk_0 And I think especially for younger voters who feel like what is the American dream anymore?
spk_0 How am I ever going to buy a home?
spk_0 How am I ever going to afford kids?
spk_0 How am I ever going to get out of the student loan debt?
spk_0 You told me I had to go to college and now I'm graduating from college.
spk_0 I don't have a job prospects and I have hundreds of thousands of dollars.
spk_0 I owe like it feels hopeless and it feels like every system has been set up to burn us,
spk_0 not support us.
spk_0 So I think candidates who can really speak to that sense of suffocation.
spk_0 And I think Mamdani, one of the things that he really spoke to very powerfully was his
spk_0 thing was like afford to live, afford to dream.
spk_0 I think that second half of the sentence is really meaningful for younger people because
spk_0 it's like, God, what could you do?
spk_0 With your life, if you didn't feel so crushed for finances or by the systems that have
spk_0 failed us?
spk_0 Yeah, I particularly loved.
spk_0 I think he was talking to Aaron Burnett and she asked about like, do you want billionaires
spk_0 to exist anymore?
spk_0 And he said the real question is, do you think that working people should be allowed to
spk_0 exist anymore?
spk_0 Mm-hmm.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And we both live in New York City and understand that for majority of people here, that's kind
spk_0 of what's pulsating through their lives and their conversations on a daily basis.
spk_0 I mean, my husband and I talk about it almost every day of like, yeah, if we could afford
spk_0 another kid, we'd have one.
spk_0 We can't.
spk_0 You would have a third.
spk_0 I'm a baby.
spk_0 Okay, no, I'm just like, because I'm scared.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 We do it too, because we're like, oh, but we're not going to have a baby again.
spk_0 And it's in those little cubes.
spk_0
spk_0 And then I'm like, oh my God, it's also so much work.
spk_0 And three in the city is a lot.
spk_0 Well, that's two ubers.
spk_0 That's anywhere you go, that's two ubers.
spk_0 I know.
spk_0 And I don't have two uber money.
spk_0 That's what it is.
spk_0 We're going to take one quick break.
spk_0 Stay with us.
spk_0 Scott, we're hitting the road, bringing pivot live to the people.
spk_0 Seven cities, Toronto, Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, San Francisco, and LA, of course.
spk_0 You went to Oasis.
spk_0 You went to Beyoncé.
spk_0 You saw the remake of Wizard of Oz in the spear, all of those suck compared to the pivot
spk_0 tour.
spk_0 This is the biggest tour, same people that are organizing our tour, that organized Taylor
spk_0 Swift's tour.
spk_0 They are much more excited about our tour.
spk_0 All right, that's enough, Grandpa.
spk_0 It's going to be so good.
spk_0 And we're bringing our brand of whatever we do to the people.
spk_0 And we're excited to meet our fans.
spk_0 We love our fans.
spk_0 For tickets, head to pivottour.com.
spk_0 See you there.
spk_0 Welcome back.
spk_0 I want to make sure that we talk about your book, which is very different from a traditional
spk_0 leadership book.
spk_0 Right?
spk_0 That's kind of focused on people who are C-suite or C-suite adjacent.
spk_0 Yours is really focused on young people, new people stepping into power.
spk_0 Tell us about it.
spk_0 So, when we're in charge, this came out in May.
spk_0 And it's not about politics at all.
spk_0 It's about power.
spk_0 It's about work.
spk_0 It's about the future of work and about what it means to lead differently in this moment.
spk_0 You know, I am 35 years old.
spk_0 I've been running this organization for almost a decade.
spk_0 And I have to have to do things very differently from thinking about how we create an environment
spk_0 that has work-life balance and sustainable work culture to how to take family leave as
spk_0 the boss, which when I googled how to do it, I got a lot of how to ask your boss for
spk_0 maternity leave and nothing about how to take it if you actually are the boss.
spk_0 How to run a diverse, equitable and inclusive environment that is both productive and also
spk_0 psychologically safe for folks.
spk_0 How to post on Instagram.
spk_0 If you're the boss, like my employees follow me on social media.
spk_0 What does that mean about how I think about posting and engaging and like faving their
spk_0 comments, that kind of stuff.
spk_0 It is such a different challenge.
spk_0 And for the book, you know, I interviewed more than 130 leaders across a bunch of different
spk_0 sectors.
spk_0 I talked to lawyers and doctors and faith leaders and teachers.
spk_0 And of course, politicians, I talked to people who, you know, haven't speak all the CEO
spk_0 of Snapchat for Shasharma, the energy of 15-vogue and Maxwell Frost and a number of members
spk_0 of Congress.
spk_0 And the themes that I heard echoed across those conversations were all so similar.
spk_0 People were struggling to figure out how to manage both their feelings and their staff's
spk_0 feelings.
spk_0 They were trying to do things differently, but didn't really know what that looked like.
spk_0 In the same way that I think, you know, take it back to parenting, but the same way that
spk_0 in particular millennial parents are trying to do it differently than our boomer parents
spk_0 did for us.
spk_0 Millennial and Gen Z bosses are trying to do it differently, but without a playbook, that's
spk_0 so, so hard.
spk_0 So one more in charge is the playbook for how to do it.
spk_0 One of the key lessons, and I see that it's also in your swag, is the We Don't Dream
spk_0 of Labor.
spk_0 Back there.
spk_0
spk_0 All right.
spk_0 It's a good placement.
spk_0 I think it's good.
spk_0 I hasn't got my book cover framed.
spk_0 But can you talk about that and how it relates to how young people can lead and run these
spk_0 organizations, you know, not just in politics, obviously, but across the board?
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 We do not dream of labor.
spk_0 I sort of, my people say it's James Baldwin, quote, I can find no proof of that on the
spk_0 internet.
spk_0 But this idea that we don't have dream jobs, we have dream lives.
spk_0 I think it's one of the biggest challenges that we are experiencing.
spk_0 Honestly, right now, with the gerontocracy, and actually, I submitted as the expert question
spk_0 for Keraswisher's interview with Tina Smith last weekend.
spk_0 And my question for her was, why is it so hard for some of your colleagues to retire?
spk_0 And her answer was, first thing she said, I think for so many of them, their jobs, other
spk_0 identities, and they can't figure out what to do beyond that.
spk_0 Millennials and Gen Z have seen that our work will not love us back, that we will get laid
spk_0 off, that our institutions will crumble, that our companies are not going to be our homes.
spk_0 We cannot count on staying somewhere for 20 or 30 years and retiring in our same job we
spk_0 started.
spk_0 So, how do we build identities beyond our profession?
spk_0 Hard for anyone?
spk_0 Really hard when you're at the boss.
spk_0 Really, really hard when you are at the entrepreneur or the founder or your job is for many young
spk_0 people.
spk_0 Influencer or content creator, how do you create systems and structures such that allow both
spk_0 you and your team to enjoy your work, find dignity in your work, get fairly compensated,
spk_0 and good benefits for your work, but also have a life outside of it so that your identity
spk_0 isn't totally wrapped up in your career.
spk_0 So, I get into all of that in the book and really try to answer the question, you know, what
spk_0 does a dream life look like and how can you build a workplace that makes that possible?
spk_0 Yeah, I just, I love it.
spk_0 It's aspirational, obviously.
spk_0 I think in a lot of ways, you know, I have a dream, like I married the right guy and I
spk_0 have beautiful kids and I can afford to live here.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 I'm still complain about it, but I think that the kind of natural feeling is, you hear something
spk_0 like that and you think it's all well and good, but that feels like a pipe dream to me.
spk_0 This idea that I don't need to be working all the time, you know, it's a fantasy work
spk_0 life balance, especially with phones and connectivity, especially when you are the boss
spk_0 and especially when so many people have some form of content creator or messenger as part
spk_0 of their job description.
spk_0 I don't think it means don't work hard.
spk_0 Like I work my ass off.
spk_0 I wrote a book while pregnant while running an organization like I don't know how you do
spk_0 it and think about a third.
spk_0 Don't let my mom hear that.
spk_0 I don't think that means don't work hard.
spk_0 I think that means have an identity that is beyond your work.
spk_0 Whether that's it, your relationship to others, as a parent, as a partner, as a friend,
spk_0 as a community member, and then create the systems and structures such that you can do
spk_0 that.
spk_0 So part of the way that I have done this is that run for something has a four day work
spk_0 week.
spk_0 That means me and all of my staff work Monday through Thursday, 32 hours a week, plus or
spk_0 minus, Fridays or weekends.
spk_0 I wrote the book on Fridays through 2024.
spk_0 I now have fellowships and I see friends and I go to a yoga class and I spend time with
spk_0 my partner on Fridays.
spk_0 It is what has allowed me to have both the balance that can make more things possible,
spk_0 but it also has not touched the organizational efficacy or impact in any way.
spk_0 Again, we had our biggest year yet.
spk_0 You can do both if and this is why I think it's both aspirational but also quite practical.
spk_0 Imagine what happens if thousands or hundreds of thousands of business owners of community
spk_0 leaders of company executives decide to make their businesses prioritize work with balance
spk_0 and build that in from the top on down and staff in such a way and structure schedules
spk_0 in such a way that people could not have to answer emails after five or six o'clock
spk_0 that people could leave in the middle of the day to go pick up their kid and then come
spk_0 back later that really could be well compensated for their work and also have lives outside
spk_0 of it.
spk_0 The addition here is like what could be possible for you as an individual, both you specifically
spk_0 also your listener, if your job didn't suck you dry at the end of the day.
spk_0 How could you show up differently for yourself, for your partner, for your family, for your
spk_0 community?
spk_0 Would you have more time to volunteer?
spk_0 Would you be a better friend?
spk_0 Would you host dinners more?
spk_0 Like, well, it would be possible if you weren't so tired.
spk_0 That's what I'm trying to implore folks to not settle for the way things have been done
spk_0 yesterday as the way we have to do them tomorrow.
spk_0 How are you finding, I guess, I mean, we talked about gyro and gyro and polyshecks, but
spk_0 even the generational reaction to your book because I think that a lot of boomers, old
spk_0 exers, kind of not and smile about this stuff and they're like, we want to lift you up,
spk_0 right?
spk_0 We know that the way that we did it doesn't necessarily work for this generation and
spk_0 there have been a lot of negative consequences, but like in reality, you're going to have
spk_0 to do it exactly the same way.
spk_0 Have you found like doors opening or minds opening, I guess, to a new way of thinking about
spk_0 this or is it more that if you're 42 and under, we're just going to be building a totally
spk_0 different America?
spk_0 I have loved hearing from so many of the older folks who've read or listened to the book
spk_0 and told me it really helped give them empathy for what their kids or their grandkids or
spk_0 their colleagues are working through.
spk_0 Like, it really opened their eyes, especially, you know, I write in depth about the internet
spk_0 and online communication and virtual workplaces and the emotional labor of leadership in this
spk_0 moment.
spk_0 I'm like, I didn't really think about that.
spk_0 It just like really gives them a language to understand the challenges.
spk_0 I gave a talk a couple weeks ago at the University of Albany and there was an older community
spk_0 member there, one of the oldest people in the room who came up to me after and said, you
spk_0 know, when you said work won't love you back, that hit me right in the gut because you're
spk_0 right.
spk_0 It didn't.
spk_0 And if I had known that earlier, I would have made some different choices.
spk_0 Like, that's the whole point here.
spk_0 I mean, because what is Gen X?
spk_0 I will say the final thing is that I love hearing from Gen Xers to get very mad that
spk_0 I don't really talk about Gen X in the book because being mad that you're left out, it's
spk_0 so classic Gen X to be mad that you're not talked about, which I just live up to the stereotype
spk_0 my dude.
spk_0 Yeah, it's funny.
spk_0 They get to be invisible when they want to be and then they throw a fit when they feel
spk_0 like they have something to contribute or to talk about their music.
spk_0 Well, and it's not my fault.
spk_0 It's not millennials fault.
spk_0 Blame the boomers.
spk_0 I've seen this.
spk_0 There's a Wall Street Journal story from a better mother's who ago that said that even
spk_0 unfortunate 500 companies, you know, these boards are deciding to go from boomers CEO to
spk_0 millennial CEO.
spk_0 Like, they are looking for the board.
spk_0 They're skipping Gen X entirely.
spk_0 And I am sorry that not my fault, but I am sorry because that sucks for you.
spk_0 It does.
spk_0 I don't want to be snarky because I married to a Gen Xer, but yeah, I think we feel the
spk_0 same things about this.
spk_0 So I was asked, folks, to come on, what's one thing that makes you rage and one thing you
spk_0 think we should all calm down about?
spk_0 One thing that makes me rage.
spk_0 I am deeply irritated by the, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier by the
spk_0 discourse about the ideological purity of the Democratic Party.
spk_0 Like recruit a candidate, get him to run for office, then tell me how it works out.
spk_0 Unless you are actively recruiting candidates, shut the fuck up.
spk_0 Is that productive?
spk_0 No, but that's how I feel.
spk_0 One thing that makes me happy or calm down about, but happy is good too.
spk_0 My toddler is obsessed with Daniel Tiger as all toddlers are and really likes to sing
spk_0 the, when you feel so mad that you want to roar, take a deep breath and count to four songs.
spk_0 And I find myself singing that in work meetings and after donor meetings quite a bit lately.
spk_0 And, you know, in politics as in parenting, I find that very resonant thematically.
spk_0 Yeah, it's also, I mean, if we want to put it in the like calm down about thing, I think
spk_0 it links very well to writing about what professional environments are now that like people are
spk_0 so appreciative of humanity actually.
spk_0 When, you know, don't bring all your home stuff to work.
spk_0 But a fair dose of it to remind us that like, I'm a pet owner, I'm a parent, you know,
spk_0 if someone would say a pet mom, I feel like I don't actually have a pet and all my dog
spk_0 friends would be like, you're not an owner, you're like part of a family.
spk_0 I'm a dog owner, it's fine.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 But totally, and our Tony box gets a lot of play with the Daniel Tiger orbit over here as
spk_0 well.
spk_0 Well, and I just, I find it very helpful to remember that when all of this is over,
spk_0 my kids and yours and everyone else's, there'll still be little kids.
spk_0 Time is long and we've got a long ways to go, but also things can change fast.
spk_0 And that's very comforting to me.
spk_0 Awesome.
spk_0 Well, Amanda, thank you so much for your time.
spk_0 It was great to have you.
spk_0 Thank you for having me.