Business
Going Big with Don Miller: Why Story Changes Everything
In this episode of Going Big, host Kevin Gentry sits down with Don Miller, best-selling author and storytelling expert, to explore the transformative power of story in business and life. Don shares in...
Going Big with Don Miller: Why Story Changes Everything
Business •
0:00 / 0:00
Interactive Transcript
spk_0
If you can come up with sound bites that help people realize how your product can help them survive and they don't have to think very hard to understand that connection, your sales are going to go up.
spk_0
So there are five specific sound bites that I think are very important to invite a customer into a story in which they use your product to save the day and to survive.
spk_0
And they happen to smell at the acronym PIECE.
spk_0
PIECE is problem, E is empathy, A is answer, C is change, and E is end result.
spk_0
So let me break that down.
spk_0
You need a sound bite and the most important sound bite you can come up with is your problem sound bite.
spk_0
A story is really about a character that is in peace, they're at peace, they're stable, and they fall into a hole.
spk_0
And that hole destabilizes their peace. And then a guide comes along, throws a rope down the hole, pulls them out of the hole, and they are restabilized to peace.
spk_0
So they're at peace, their peace is destabilized, and then they are restabilized.
spk_0
Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host Kevin Gentry, and this is the place where we celebrate, bold moves, and big ideas.
spk_0
Each week I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers and in their communities.
spk_0
Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to life.
spk_0
Now if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube, or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you'll never miss an episode.
spk_0
Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big.
spk_0
Well today on The Going Big Podcast, I'm very pleased to have Don Miller. Don Miller is a best-selling author, entrepreneur, and one of the most consequential voices on the idea of stories.
spk_0
You may know him from many of his books, Blue Like Jazz, more than 20 years ago, I had a tremendous effect in capturing a whole generation.
spk_0
But more recently, certainly is building a story brand. More than a million copies have been sold and has really transformed how leaders and organizations really communicate their message.
spk_0
And that's what we want to dive in today to some degree. But really it's the whole story of Don and you're your amazing life.
spk_0
You've lived a remarkable life focused on the idea of connection. And that's what really attracted me to have you on The Going Big Podcast, because you've taken this concept of the story brand and turned it into a full-fledged institution.
spk_0
And just dig into your personal story, your journey, and how this came about. And how today you've really become such a consequential leader.
spk_0
So welcome. Thanks for joining us on The Going Big Podcast.
spk_0
That is really great to be with you, Kevin.
spk_0
Well, right out, right from the start, what is up with story? Why is storytelling so important?
spk_0
Well, the human brain actually daydreams about 30% of the time. I don't know if you're familiar with some of the statistics, but it is really, really hard to get people to pay attention.
spk_0
And if you start a story, you start a Netflix series or you start a Harry Potter book, what's fascinating about the human brains that won't daydream? It will pay attention.
spk_0
And anybody who's ever attended a church service knows that you daydream, daydream, daydream, and then the pastor says something that starts a story, and you start paying attention, and then when he's done with the story, you start a daydream again.
spk_0
So it's actually a fascinating phenomenon about the human brain. So years ago, I wrote memoirs and I wrote books with lots of stories in them. And I studied story and story structure in order to write those books. Those books ended up doing really well.
spk_0
And when I'd written the seventh or eighth one, I decided I didn't want to write another memoir. I wanted to write a book about story and story structure and how to use it as a messaging device.
spk_0
So a framework that would help you bring attention to whatever initiative or idea or business that you were running. And that book ended up being building a story brand. And accidentally I found myself with a consulting and coaching company, coaching people on how to come up with the sound bites.
spk_0
They would need to bring attention to whatever they were doing. And that has been a fascinating decade, better part of a decade that I've been doing this. I've really enjoyed meeting people like you and your listeners and just saying, hey, what are you trying to build?
spk_0
What are you trying to grow? What are you trying to bring attention to? What nonprofit are you are you building? What initiative are you building? What legislation are you trying to pass? What position are you trying to get elected to?
spk_0
Everybody from national defense in the China policy department to the national security to go down the street trying to sell more plungers. And it's been a blast helping people come up with the sound bites they need to invite customers into a story and get attention.
spk_0
Well, we a lot to cover today because you touched on already a lot of very different and important things. And it is tough, I think, for people to understand the importance and power story.
spk_0
Many kind of get it, but still don't even know the application. So maybe we can dive into that. But I want to start a little bit more about you. You've written first in your memoirs, your early writings about how you grew up without a father and how that influenced and affected a lot of your life.
spk_0
You've talked a lot about your faith, your faith journey, how that is still such an important part of your life. And then as you say this, this how you, whether you stumbled upon it or whatever this idea of story and story brand.
spk_0
So just tell us if you would a little bit more about your personal journey done what what your story.
spk_0
Well, that's a good one. I think I could probably tell anybody else's story better than I can tell mine. You know, when you're so close to it, it's hard to do. But I grew up in Houston, Texas. And my dad, as you mentioned split when I was a kid.
spk_0
So I grew up in a home with a mom that was trying to do everything rather heroically, by the way, an extremely strong mom who was determined to give us a great childhood.
spk_0
And so I have enormous respect for women, even if they're married, my gosh, it's hard to raise a family. But especially without the help of a good man, it's even harder.
spk_0
So I grew up in that kind of environment. I probably didn't show hardly any promise at all in high school. I don't think anybody would have predicted me to do anything.
spk_0
And got interested in the written word. I was I was at a debate just happened to be at a debate and the chairman of the American debate club had some poems memorized and recited these poems.
spk_0
And I looked around at all the girls in the room and they were paying a lot of attention to this guy. And so I thought, I'm thinking I'm going to memorize me some poems.
spk_0
I started memorizing poems for probably the wrong reasons. But that was my introduction to literature. And from that point on, I just dreamed maybe someday, you know, I could write a book. And maybe someday I could be one of these smart people who is able to do something like that, even though I barely got out of high school and really didn't go to college at all.
spk_0
And a guy gave me a shot at a publishing company working in the warehouse, even though I didn't have a degree. And four years later, I was the president of that publishing company and realized, I've got kind of a knack for business. And I've got a knack for understanding literature and what books should be published and what books shouldn't. And I don't know where that knack came from, but I had it.
spk_0
And that introduced me to the business side of publishing. And then one night I said, I think I can write my own book. I always wanted to. And I did. And that book did not do well. And then I wrote another one and that book ended up on the New York Times. So suddenly I was, I was a writer.
spk_0
I just told you 20 years worth of of that story. It was not fast.
spk_0
And then you know kept writing and then finally wrote building a story brand and that made me a messaging consultant. But I would say, you know, the only thing, the only thing Kevin that I've ever been really good at is words and just figuring out what words to say in order to plant ideas and people's minds.
spk_0
And I'm grateful for that gift. It's partly gift and part just discipline and honing in on learning how to do that and studying a lot of structures.
spk_0
But that's basically my story. And then after I sold millions of books, really got sick of talking about myself and discovered, well, because I've had all this practice writing these books, I can help other people figure out what their story is and how to tell their story and how to introduce themselves to the world in such a way that they get attention.
spk_0
And that turned into a second career that I've very, very much enjoyed. Most people, most people don't know how to talk about what they do and I like helping them.
spk_0
Well, Don, I love what you said about the the red word and the book of poetry. I remember, yeah, I mean, you're a great writer. And I remember and I think it was blue like jazz. You talked about how you used to have pride and prejudice on your bookshelf behind you as a way of attracting girls or impressing them.
spk_0
If you want to comment on that and also how what do you learn from spending time with hippies?
spk_0
Well, I'm very grateful for the sort of literary side of my of my early years. I just absolutely became obsessed with the written word.
spk_0
And especially John Steinbeck, Annie Dillard, Anne Lamott, JD Salinger, you know, these were the writers that I thought were almost like magicians and their ability to put something on a page and take you into an entire other world, almost like you're in a trance.
spk_0
And I wanted to be able to do that and assumed I was really good at it. I found out pretty quickly I wasn't and I needed to work a great deal in order to get good at it.
spk_0
But, you know, I kept honing my my craft and trying to figure out how to write and what I never realized was all those years I spent writing books were going to help me create messages that would build company.
spk_0
And that would help explain foreign policy and help explain why we should bring these three pieces of legislation together to do something about our immigration reform.
spk_0
You know, to be able to sort of apply that cordless screwdriver to so many other things and by cordless screwdriver, I mean the ability to figure out what what order to put words in and what to say in order to cause the public to buy in.
spk_0
And that that to me was something I never in a million years saw coming and I'm very grateful that I was able to stumble across that that the word about your sort of view of humanity and how that's affected you and how it has to your faith as well.
spk_0
But looking back, was there a moment that you would see a sort of a before and after that really affected how you think about, you know, living a life of purpose and meaning because that clearly you wrote about that in the beginning and now you're doing that to greatly affect important things in people's lives.
spk_0
Is there a key moment?
spk_0
Well, there was a season and it was close to a moment.
spk_0
I rode my bicycle across America and ended up in Washington, DC started in LA, ended up in DC.
spk_0
We did one more day after DC to get to the Atlantic.
spk_0
But we stopped at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and I bought for the first time.
spk_0
I bought many copies since, but I bought Victor Frankl's man's search for meaning.
spk_0
And there's a lot in that book, but the two principal ideas that changed my life forever, one is that mankind is not actually motivated by the pursuit of pleasure, the way of Sigmund Freud has posited.
spk_0
He's motivated by the pursuit of meaning and the way that you experience meaning essentially and this is a very reductionistic summary of Frankl's ideas.
spk_0
But to sacrifice on behalf of a project that serves the world.
spk_0
And if you do that, if you sacrifice, you know, you suffer to some degree, even if it's just the suffering of self-discipline getting up in the morning and getting some work done.
spk_0
And you create something for others that benefits others, you will experience a deep sense of meaning.
spk_0
And of course, we all do that as parents, we sacrifice for the benefit of others as husbands, we sacrifice for the benefit of others.
spk_0
Anybody listening to me who leads any group of people knows what it means to sacrifice for the benefit of others.
spk_0
And I love what Jordan Peterson said. I heard him say something recently, the more responsibility you take in life, the more meaning you get to experience, not the more pleasure, by the way, because there's less pleasure.
spk_0
But the more meaning and that became a foundational idea for the way that I would live my life from that point on that I always wanted to involve myself in some form of sacrifice and sacrifice is a dramatic word, but some form of discipline that necessitated me getting up or other people would suffer.
spk_0
And I've lived my life by that rule for about 25 years and I would say, there's been really rough days, you know, I'm not going to lie to you.
spk_0
And I've made a lot of mistakes, but there's probably not been a single day in 25 years when I didn't experience a deep sense of meaning.
spk_0
And I personally was not involved in a story that was interesting to me.
spk_0
And before that, I'm 54. So, you know, there are 29 years before that where there were plenty of days when I found myself in what Victor Frank would call an existential vacuum.
spk_0
I don't know why we exist. This is depressing. I don't know why I keep getting out of bed in the morning. And when I learned to plant myself solidly into a story in which I was distracted by a project that served others.
spk_0
I just experienced a great deal more meaning.
spk_0
Well, thanks for mentioning Victor Frank. And Mansor's for me and that's such an important book. And for those listening, if you're not familiar with it, check it out.
spk_0
It's it's really something. Well, don't you begin your career and you're writing with a lot of very deeply personal memoirs.
spk_0
Your book, a thousand, a million miles and a thousand years, did that become the sort of bridge for story and the idea of story brand?
spk_0
Was that a key part? That was about.
spk_0
Yes. Well, what the book was about, the book was about a group of filmmakers, a director and a producer who wanted to make a movie out of a memoir that I've written.
spk_0
And they came to me and said, we'd love to make this movie. And we worked together for the better part of two years to turn the book into a screenplay.
spk_0
Oh, wow.
spk_0
And that was the introduction to me of story and story structure and story frameworks and all the strategies that you use to try to get an audience to pay attention.
spk_0
And that became my entire next career. I mean, I turned that into a million miles and a thousand years and then turned it into a business application to clarify your message using narrative structures.
spk_0
And that became building a story brand, which, you know, as you mentioned, sold over a million copies and I've since turned into a consulting firm with 30 employees and about 450 certified guides who out and do marketing for people.
spk_0
So, yeah, that was a foundational pivot in my career to learn about story and then help other people tell their stories.
spk_0
All right. So we've been having the audience wait long enough. So what is story brand? Tell us about this, this very important thing that you stumbled upon and then have developed.
spk_0
I'll tell you the foundational idea and the most applicable idea behind story brand and it's this there are five sound bites that you can create and you can repeat their custom sound bites specifically for you in your business.
spk_0
There are five of them that if you, if you create them, which takes a little bit of work and then you repeat them will cause a lot more people to pay attention to you.
spk_0
And we'll cause everybody to understand what it is that you're trying to do and why it's so important and what role they can play.
spk_0
And those five sound bites effectively invite people into a story in which they use your product or your idea to make their lives better.
spk_0
And so if you really want to boil down what I do for people, I help them come up with those five sound bites and then I look at their landing pages their websites, their lead generators, their YouTube videos, their social media channels, their proposals, even their contracts, their product descriptions, every aspect of their business.
spk_0
And I start using those five sound bites in that marketing collateral. I start, we start crossing out what they were saying before on the billboards on the side of the road on the header of their website.
spk_0
We start crossing that stuff out because it's never any good. And we replace it with the sound bites that we wrote together. And what they see the the response is dramatic.
spk_0
You know, I was just with a company called you need a budget that has seen a 400% increase in their social media engagement.
spk_0
There was another guy that I helped them come up with sound bites and we wrote the product descriptions and he saw he happened to see a 400% increase in product sales.
spk_0
You know, we're working with national defense right now national security and we would expect a much quicker congressional authorization on some of the projects that they need funding for.
spk_0
You know, when people understand what it is that you are trying to do and why it's important and even more specifically why it's important to them.
spk_0
You get a yes a lot faster. So to me, it's, you know, my job is anybody who's trying to explain something and get other people involved, whether that's buying a product or getting a vote or a congressional authorization.
spk_0
You got to be very disciplined in how you talk about it. Otherwise, you'll lose people. And I'm the guy they call to help them talk about it.
spk_0
Well, ladies and gentlemen, if you are intrigued by this idea, building a story brand, I can't recommend it enough. Just Google Donald Miller and story brand.
spk_0
There's so much to tap dawn. I'd love to hear a little bit more about an example. If you could share maybe a nonprofit or a business that is utilized this just to help folks understand it.
spk_0
But I'm sure this is a terrible oversimplification, but I could just state this. We live in an incredibly overly communicated world. We're inundated with stuff.
spk_0
And yet when we want others to do things, we think what we want them to do is the most important thing in the world. So we just talk and talk and talk.
spk_0
And the first one is like, I'm busy. I can't do this. Is that a fair way to talk about or explain the world that we're in and how what you're doing works and is so important?
spk_0
Yeah. Well, the reason that what I do work so well is that the human brain is designed, in my opinion, by God, to survive.
spk_0
So the number one job of the human brain is to help you survive and thrive. And what I really mean by that is just what you think.
spk_0
The brain is designed to help you not get hit by a bus. So when you cross the street, you look both ways.
spk_0
It's designed to avoid toxic people who could hurt you. It's designed to help you make money, save money, get better sleep, experience less anxiety, live longer, overcome addictions, experience better.
spk_0
And then you have to have better relationships. You know, all that stuff, the human brain is obsessed with one thing and that is survival. Now survival is a very broad category.
spk_0
And so what I tell my clients is unless you associate your product or your service, whether you're a coach or whatever you are, unless you associate your product with the survival of the person that you're talking to, they will ignore you.
spk_0
They are designed to ignore you. So what you have to do is position your product as a tool that they can use to survive.
spk_0
And anything that anybody has ever spent money on is a tool that people can use to survive. And I realize that gets complicated.
spk_0
You know, when we're talking about survival, if we're talking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it's, you know, food, shelter, association with a tribe all the way up to sort of self actualization.
spk_0
In a first world economy, and probably most of the people listening to us right now are in a first world economy, survival is very complicated.
spk_0
It's about status, it's about association with a group of people, it's about being equipped, it's about identity, having the identity of somebody who is competent rather than incompetent.
spk_0
You know, there's all sorts of ways to survive. But I'm convinced that the only thing anybody has ever spent a dollar on, they spend a dollar on because they thought that thing would help them survive.
spk_0
So if you can come up with sound bites that help people realize how your product can help them survive, and they don't have to think very hard to understand that connection, your sales are going to go up.
spk_0
So there are five specific sound bites that I think are very important to invite a customer into a story in which they use your product to save the day and to survive.
spk_0
And they happen to smell out the acronym piece.
spk_0
P is problem, E is empathy, A is answer, C is change, and E is end result. So let me break that down.
spk_0
You need a sound bite, and the most important sound bite you can come up with is your problem sound bite.
spk_0
A story is really about a character that is in peace, they're at peace, they're stipped stable, and they fall into a hole.
spk_0
And that hole destabilizes their peace. And then a guide comes along, throws a rope down the hole, pulls them out of the hole, and they are restabilized to peace.
spk_0
So they're at peace, their peace is destabilized, and then they are restabilized.
spk_0
When you meet your customer, you're meeting somebody who has been destabilized.
spk_0
Their windows are dirty, so they need a window cleaner. Their marriage is on the rocks, so they need a therapist.
spk_0
Their roof is leaking, so they need a new roof. Their dog is barking every time somebody knocks at the door, and so they need a dog trainer.
spk_0
You need to own a problem. If you want to build your business, if you want to build a coaching business, whatever you're doing, you need to own a problem.
spk_0
That is the number one thing you've got to do. And the way that you own a problem is you say something like, if you're having trouble clarifying your message so people pay attention, you should call me.
spk_0
So you literally, you start with the problem and then associate your product as the solution to that problem.
spk_0
So you need a problem sound bite. Then you need an empathy sound bite. You need to say, if you struggle with X, I feel for you.
spk_0
And that creates a bond, an emotional bond with the customer. And then the answer sound bite, which is, you should download my app, or you should hire my window cleaners, or you should buy this electric vehicle, or whatever it is, you want to associate your product as the solution to that problem.
spk_0
And then the C, the C is change. So it's problem, empathy, answer, change. If you do buy my products, you will be more competent, or you will finally have clean windows, or whatever that is.
spk_0
And then the end result is the climactic scene. So let me give you five sound bites that have been incredibly effective for a client.
spk_0
I have a client name you need a budget. They have a budgeting app in the app store. They make $50 million a year off this app. They have a cult like following. It is an app that helps you do a lot more than budget. It helps you manage your money and get good with money.
spk_0
Their problem sound bite was, have you ever worried about money? So I would say everybody on the planet is worried about money. So now they have now qualified an audience of several billion people, which is a pretty good target market.
spk_0
And then the empathy they would say is we know how that feels. Have you ever worried about money? We know how that feels. The answer is download the wine app. Don't overthink it. It's literally just use our product. Download the wine app. That's the answer.
spk_0
And then the next see is change and we will help you get good with money. And then the end result is so that you never have to worry about money again. So let's put those five sound bites together and what you'll notice is you're inviting the customer into a story in which they are in a hole and you're helping them out.
spk_0
And you're also doing this in a few short sentences to take four seconds, five seconds. Have you ever worried about money? We know how it feels to worry about money. Download the wine app and we'll help you get good with money so you never have to worry about money again.
spk_0
And that's it. Now what you want to do is you want to take those five sentences and you want to put them everywhere. In fact, get good with money is now wine apps tagline. It's there. It's right under their logo. If you go to their website, you will see the words that they've just did this a month ago. But you will already see the words that I just used everywhere. You want them above the header on your website. You want them at your trade show on the backdrop. You want them. You're trying to get the public to memorize these talking points.
spk_0
And I would anticipate, you know, in the coming two to three years that they would go from 50 million to probably north of 75 and maybe even 100 million by only changing the words that they use to talk about their business because finally people can understand in an instant why they should download that app. In fact, if I'm not worried about money, but my uncle's worried about money, I would say to him, oh, you're worried about money. You should download the wine app. They can come up with lead generators.
spk_0
There's five ways to know that your boyfriend is bad with money. Then you download that that lead generator and you tell your boyfriend, ladies, you got to tell your boyfriend, download the app because I'm not going to marry anybody who's bad with money. You got to get good with money.
spk_0
Wine app, how she get good with money. You can see that the way that I'm talking about wine app is now not confusing. And before before we met, they were saying things looks really not about budgeting. It's about spending.
spk_0
I don't know what that means. Where you're really not a finance app or more of a lifestyle app. I have no clue what that means. So if there's any sort of cognitive dissonance as you talk about your brand, you're losing sales. You were losing engagement. You need to simplify it so much. Let me give you an example. And I'm not a fan of American politics right now. I think both parties has some severe problems. But Jeb Bush wrote a book on immigration. Donald Trump had three words, build a wall. And the literal three word tab.
spk_0
So the tagline beat the book. So most of us are over communicating and over complicating what it is that we're trying to do. And because of that, we're losing the body politic. They are just not paying attention to us. We've got to simplify our message.
spk_0
Well, fascinating. And I mean, make America great again. Very simple tagline too. Nobody can tell me what Jeb Bush's tagline. They couldn't talk to us.
spk_0
By the way, Hillary Clinton's tagline was, I'm with her. What is that? Exactly. I think they're like driving around in a minivan. I mean, what do you mean I'm with her? I can't figure out what the offer is there.
spk_0
I think Jeb Bush was J.E.B. Exclamation point, which actually meant nothing either.
spk_0
Yeah, Lord. Jebs was Jeb can fix it. And Jeb can fix it is an elusive offer.
spk_0
Yeah, we don't know what we get out of that. So you go to the polls and you can't figure out what I get.
spk_0
I get a great country or I get it being fixed. I mean, one creates cognitive dissonance and the other one is a clear offer.
spk_0
So you just cannot confuse people. It's very, very hard not to do it because you're so close to your products, your services, your ideas that you assume people understand what you're talking about and they do not.
spk_0
You're here. All right. All right. Now I've got to go a big question that relates to this. So you said this, you know, you had this realization.
spk_0
How did you, I'm trying to help our audience and me, he understands. How did you step into the going big?
spk_0
Because it doesn't sound like you had a vision for this all your life or certain ambition. How did you go big? How did you take it big?
spk_0
How are you continuing to take it big? Are you just responding to the market that you've discovered? What? Help us understand that.
spk_0
Well, I mean, step one to going big and story brand becoming such a, you know, a decent company was that it worked.
spk_0
You know, we, we, I had a hunch that these frameworks would work and Prokeren gamble called they were the first call and then Ford Lincoln called and the White House and you know, on and on.
spk_0
And I would go in and kind of had a hunch that if we changed the wording, we would get better engagement and there just wasn't an instance where that wasn't the case.
spk_0
So I knew I had something. And at that point, it was about saying, okay, well, how do we, how do we multiply the impact? And there were two key things.
spk_0
One is I decided not to just sell myself. In other words, if you want to buy Donald Miller's brain for a day, it doesn't scale very well.
spk_0
So I turned it into a framework, five sound bites that you would need. And those sound bites have an acronym.
spk_0
What that allowed me to do was train hundreds of other people to go in and teach it as well. And that scaled.
spk_0
I put that framework in a book building a story brand and that scaled. So I, I had a really good idea that worked and then I turned it into a repeatable framework.
spk_0
And then I distributed that framework through human beings and literature. And that those three things allowed me to go big.
spk_0
Amazing. Well, you know, our friend Wilgadera, who had this, you know, challenged with respect. He was part of a great restaurant.
spk_0
But wanted to make it number one. So found this hole in the marketplace, this concept of unreasonable hospitality.
spk_0
And I mean, you know, this better than I do, but he has stayed focused on this. We've had him as a guest on the going big podcast.
spk_0
And unreasonable hospitality, he owns that in it. And it, he solves an elevator problem. He's got a way to deliver a solution to a lot of people.
spk_0
That's right. In fact, he did eat. We created the framework in which unreasonable hospitality can be duplicated in the conference room at story brand's headquarters.
spk_0
We spent about two days doing that with him. So it's a fantastic framework, by the way.
spk_0
It is a fantastic framework. And that's another tremendous book, too, by the way. I recommend strongly unreasonable hospitality by Wilgadera. All right.
spk_0
So switching gears a bit, something that comes up so often in this podcast, when I talk to leaders who've thought big, chief big things is the value of mentors.
spk_0
And I think you have the mentorship project. You have, of course, your own personal experience, not having had a father in your life.
spk_0
Tell us about how you think about mentors and the importance of the men today's world.
spk_0
Well, they're critical. And you can even see in stories and story structure. There's a hero character in the story. And then there's usually a character that I call the guide. Sometimes they're called the mentor or the wizard.
spk_0
But I call them the guide.
spk_0
Like, like, or maybe a little guy walkers the hero Yoda is a guide.
spk_0
That's Katniss is a hero. Hey, Mitch is a guide. George Banks and Mary Poppins is the hero. Mary Poppins is actually the God.
spk_0
There's almost always usually there's multiple guides, but like King George and the King's speech is the hero.
spk_0
And Daniel, the drama teacher is the guide.
spk_0
There's sometimes multiple guides in a story, but usually there's a hero and then the hero gets help.
spk_0
I just watched Rudy the other day on an airplane and the janitor and one of the coaches, the assistant coaches, they both play the role of guide in Rudy's life.
spk_0
The guide is an interesting character. The guide is the hero is weak.
spk_0
They're in desperate need of help. They're ill equipped. They're usually unwilling to take action. They're afraid.
spk_0
The guide is the character that has been there usually and done that. Mr. Miyagi is a former champion. Yoda is a Jedi.
spk_0
Hey, Mitch has won the Hunger Games. And so it is it is almost impossible for a human being to succeed in life without coming behind somebody who's already done it.
spk_0
The reason these guides exist inside of stories is because they exist in real life. And we long for them.
spk_0
Every mother and father is a guide. That's why a father abandoning their family is so devastating because it's literally the guide leaving and not helping the hero figure out how to navigate the world.
spk_0
And so what we find in culture is that human beings only choose leaders who are guides.
spk_0
And I always say to people, never play the hero in the story. Always play the guide. If you are a leader, you cannot play the role of hero. You must play the role of guide.
spk_0
And by the way, why would you play the role of hero if you're a leader? Is there a week in competent and desperate need of help?
spk_0
When when when Jeb says Jeb can fix it, he's positioning self as the hero in the story. When Hillary Clinton says, I'm with her or I'm sorry, she's with us. Sorry, I'm with her is what she said. She should have said she's with us.
spk_0
She's positioning herself as the hero in the story. And when people smell that you think you're the hero of the story, they smell weakness.
spk_0
And I've never seen a leader position themselves as the hero in the story and get very many people to follow them.
spk_0
You've got to think more about how you can help the hero win your followers. How can I help them win?
spk_0
You'll notice that people who blow up online on their Instagram channel are usually they usually have really great advice helping you achieve longevity or deal with a narcissist or have a better marriage or be a better parent.
spk_0
Those people blow up because we are always looking for a guide and not a hero. It's interesting because people sometimes come to me and say, Hey, can you help me tell my story? And I say, I can.
spk_0
But you've got to understand if you want to be seen as a leader telling your story is not going to be very helpful.
spk_0
What you want to do is invite the public into a story in which they use your wisdom to survive.
spk_0
And that's where you're going to get admiration and respect. So sometimes it feels like you're telling your story, but you're actually not.
spk_0
You're actually positioning yourself as a guide helping the hero win.
spk_0
No, this is really excellent. Thank you. All right.
spk_0
So I reached out to a number of your friends and asked them to suggest some questions for today.
spk_0
And they all came back actually to several of them did to your book Hero on a mission, especially about the advice you give to how to think about writing your personal mission stage.
spk_0
And even writing your Eulogy tell us a little bit about that.
spk_0
Yeah, I did that exercise. Of course, Stephen County recommends that exercise Michael Hyatt recommends the exercise. And there's another thinker who Stephen Cubby got the idea from a camera was named.
spk_0
But he really recommended writing your Eulogy, even if you're young, if you're 20 years old, write your Eulogy as though it's being read of your funeral 50, 70 years from now.
spk_0
And I did that exercise gosh, I mean, probably 15 to 20 years ago.
spk_0
And I would say I read it at least once a week. I've read it thousands of times.
spk_0
And it has been sort of a directional asset for me. I will read it and remember, oh, that's right.
spk_0
I want to be remembered by my wife and our daughter as a good husband and a good father.
spk_0
Therefore, I, he actually says in my Eulogy that Don was home by five o'clock and he, he rarely had his phone with him.
spk_0
You know, because I want it to instruct my behavior. It says that he was a good friend. So when somebody calls in there in need, as soon as I get off this Zoom call, I got a friend coming over.
spk_0
And I took time for them. I think if I didn't read that document, I would say, well, I don't have to do that right now. I got, I got some other stuff to do.
spk_0
But because I read my Eulogy, I know this is what I want my life to have been about. And, and it shapes my behavior.
spk_0
So that's, that's again, I want to live a great story. And part of the way to live a great story is envision how you want this thing to end.
spk_0
And then live accordingly, live so that you get there.
spk_0
Well, you, you're a great writer and you've got a lot of great advice. So you're doing a performing a tremendous service to a lot of us.
spk_0
Another one, coach builder, that was really helpful to me in the creation of my own business as well. And I love that.
spk_0
So thank you. Thank you very, very much. All right. So some wrap up questions.
spk_0
If you could give advice to a younger version of Don Miller, let's say maybe 20 or so years ago when you were working on blue like jazz, what advice would you give to that younger version of yourself today?
spk_0
You know, I hesitate because I'm afraid if I gave myself advice, I would not make the mistakes that I made which have shaped me.
spk_0
But I'll venture and say the number one piece of advice is, hey, Don, no matter what you're going through, I promise you, when you are 54 years old, which is me today, you will look back and you will see that God had been there.
spk_0
I'm going to be with you the entire time. He had never abandoned you. The pain was part of it. He was with you. He was going to use it to shape you and direct you.
spk_0
He was with you the entire time. And I see that so clearly Kevin. I mean, so clearly. And in the moment, I didn't. I didn't see it.
spk_0
And I wondered where the heck are you? And he was there. And I looked back and go, wow, boy, if that painful season hadn't happened, I wouldn't have learned this.
spk_0
I would give myself that advice. The second piece of advice I would get, give is this. In the seasons of my life, when I've accomplished something, the season after that, whether it was hitting the New York Times or growing a company or some sort of financial success or winning an award,
spk_0
the seasons that followed those mountain peak moments, we're almost always followed by a season of mild arrogance and pride. And if I could look back on my life, the seasons in which I spent in arrogance and pride were seasons of non growth.
spk_0
And the seasons I spent in humility, which by the way, we're all forced because I was getting my butt kicked or I was failing, we're all seasons of growth. And so I would say, Don, more humility less pride and you'll get there faster. And that is, that is those two things, God had been with you the entire time and pride, Stahl's growth would be the two pieces of advice I would give myself.
spk_0
Wow, well, thank you. Well, I've got a closing question. You may have already answered it, but I asked our friend Clay Broga for the final question. And he wanted to ask you this and that is what's the most overlooked and underappreciated key to success. And so for the benefit of the listeners going big podcasts from around the world, wherever there, whenever, wherever they're listening, what would that be?
spk_0
Well, I would say, I would say humility, but I already said that. And so I think I'll combine two factors, humility with dreaming absurdly big. I mean, ridiculously big.
spk_0
There, you can accomplish more than you can even imagine. And if you dream big, life is exciting.
spk_0
It's fun. You attract resources to yourself. You have great friends. Sometimes you're kind of alone because people think you're delusional. But if it's amazing to me how absurdly big, delusional big, I've dreamt.
spk_0
And those things tend to happen. And I'm now to the point where I don't know that big things are actually as hard as we thought they were. And so I would say to you, stay humble, but dream big.
spk_0
That's terrific. You know, many times on this podcast, we have quoted Daniel Burnham, the architect of the Chicago, the Union Station, Washington DC with that famous quote, make no small plans.
spk_0
They have no ability to stermen soul. So that's awesome. Thank you, Don. Don, thank you for being here today. And ladies and gentlemen, I cannot recommend enough.
spk_0
Don's books, just check him out, check more out. Don't if what people want to find out more about you beyond just reading the books. What should they do?
spk_0
Well, if you want me to help you write your five soundbites, go to storybrandyourbusiness.com. We have a live workshop in Nashville. We limit it to 100 people.
spk_0
We just launched it yesterday and already 60 something seats are filled. So it's going to go. We will do another one.
spk_0
So hopefully there will be a wait list or a second workshop by the time you listen to this podcast. But if you go to storybrandyourbusiness.com, we're limiting it to 100 people because I want to be able to talk to everybody.
spk_0
And there's coaches in the room who can help you. But I'd love to spend some time helping you invite people into a story.
spk_0
Well, that's fantastic. Well, you're helping a lot of people solve some big problems. So thank you for that. And thank you today for helping us all to think about going big. And thanks for all you do. Good to have you done.
spk_0
Well, I really appreciate the conversation and thanks for having me on.
spk_0
Thanks for tuning in to the Going Big Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals.
spk_0
Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word. And it gets these inspiring stories out to more people.
spk_0
You can also find more content, resources, and updates at our website, goingbigpodcast.com.
spk_0
Remember, the only limits are the ones you don't challenge, the limits that you impose on yourself.
spk_0
Keep pushing, keep growing and above all, keep going big. See you next time on the Going Big Podcast.