Bitchin' about The Life of a Showgirl feat. Final Girls Club

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Fluently Ford.

spk_0 I am joined by two guests. I'm so excited to have on Emily and Sammy previously from It's Become a Whole Thing,

spk_0 where you might have listened to their podcast and they have just started a new, fantastic and very

spk_0 topical for the season podcast called Final Girls Club. Welcome to the show. How you guys doing?

spk_0 Hello. Thank you so much.

spk_0 To have you guys on to talk about Taylor is going to be amazing because over on your Patreon,

spk_0 you guys did this almost like two-hour review of the Tortured Poets Department.

spk_0 And I listened to it all the time because everything that you said was just, I don't know,

spk_0 Sammy, I'd love to hear about your Taylor Swift background, but I know for Emily and me,

spk_0 you know, we've been fans for a while and then things have started to kind of sour with Miss Swift.

spk_0 Tell us a little bit about your background throughout like the lens of swiftyism

spk_0 all the way at the beginning to now. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't really into country music.

spk_0 It just wasn't in my like cultural experience. So I wasn't really clocking Taylor until like 1989

spk_0 and then I was a fan for that. And then I would say reputation made me like a huge fan and then

spk_0 Emily and I both went through our folklore and evermore obsession together. And I even really liked

spk_0 Midnight's and yeah, it just kind of all went off the rails at about the same time as

spk_0 her breakup, Tortured Poets Department, and her hard left turn on advocacy. Now she's like

spk_0 anti-advocacy, it seems. Yeah, so I would say I'm a disgruntled former fan.

spk_0 Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think a lot, especially within the past week,

spk_0 our people who would probably use that label for themselves as well. And I was reading this review,

spk_0 you know, I've been reading all of these reviews of the album. So I forget which one it was,

spk_0 but they were saying for some albums, they were like, you know, everyone loves folklore and evermore.

spk_0 So good. And I've been re-listing into it after Showgirl dropped. And once again, it's so good.

spk_0 And they were saying, while Midnight seems a little lackluster and Tortured Poets seemed a little

spk_0 maybe fake intellectualism, Showgirl is really the only album that seems like straight up offensive.

spk_0 Two of a lot of people with how bad it is. And that's certainly something I felt where I'm like,

spk_0 I can't listen to this because it's working. It's making me feel nasty about her. And then I go back

spk_0 and I listen to Marjorie or Invisible String or the One. And I go, oh, it's so good. So I do that to

spk_0 remind myself that it's not that I hate Taylor Swift. It's that I hate Taylor Swift lately. So Emily,

spk_0 what have been your opinion since Showgirl dropped? Yeah, it feels more like Taylor Swift trademark lately.

spk_0 There's something about the life of a showgirl that feels kind of like a corporate transaction.

spk_0 It feels like something we subscribe to and it's dropping in our inbox or like arriving in

spk_0 like some kind of subscription box. It just feels so list. Like I understand the criticisms

spk_0 that Midnight's got, but I enjoyed the fun of it. I was just dancing around and having a good time.

spk_0 Torture Posts, Harmon, it's just not my kind of music. But I'm like, okay, she needed to get

spk_0 train of thought out of her mind. And with this, it seems like the fandom is as about as united as

spk_0 they could be in their dislike of it. Yeah, I mean, of course, we're getting the classic, you know,

spk_0 Swiftie logic is so funny. I've been seeing a lot of the phrases online of if you don't like this

spk_0 album, you don't like fun and happiness. And I'm like, that's so funny. That's like telling a human

spk_0 like you don't like to pee and you don't like to eat food. It's like these are like, it's a I like

spk_0 fun and happiness. And I dislike the album. And I feel like Stan culture has gotten so wild to the

spk_0 point where we're saying sentences that just like defy the laws of human reason and physics. And

spk_0 it's like, that's a normal thing to say to someone who didn't like the album. But it does seem like

spk_0 for them, maybe the first time ever, majority of the fandom is united and not liking this album.

spk_0 Are you guys seeing that too? Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of like, it's camp. It's a joke like as people

spk_0 defending it saying like, you guys don't get those lyrics. It's the whole thing is meant to be a joke.

spk_0 The whole thing's meant to be camp. I'm like, I don't know. I love the mind if you have to explain

spk_0 a joke. Like, maybe it's not that funny. Mm-hmm. I'm with you. Well, let's start with them

spk_0 or ranking. I would I would say that this album is number 12 for me on the bottom. What would you

spk_0 guys say? Definitely. Like, I was flabbergasted when I listened to this the first time I said,

spk_0 this is not I seem to have gotten some sort of AI slop version. Like, where's the real version?

spk_0 It's borderline unlistenable in my opinion. Sorry, sorry, sorry. And when people say like, oh,

spk_0 you hate love and happiness, I see people saying that like, oh, you don't want Taylor to be happy.

spk_0 Like, you guys hate when she's happy. You want her to be crying. You want her to be sad all the time.

spk_0 You only like when she's sad. That is not true. I like when she writes like she knows how to read

spk_0 and write. That's it. Like, yes. I like when she's happy. I like when she's horny because I liked it

spk_0 on false god and I liked it on guilty as sin and I like when she's with rest of her life. Yeah,

spk_0 I liked New Year's Day. I liked to call it what you want. You know, it's it's just a lot of things

spk_0 that don't make sense. And I think the biggest thing for me is that with every single one of her albums,

spk_0 even the ones that I'm not a fan of, there's always been some lyrics where I go, damn,

spk_0 isn't that insightful or true? Like, I wasn't nuts about midnight, but midnight's, but in

spk_0 what's the one? Is it illicit affairs or the one where she's thinking about cheating?

spk_0 High infidelity where she goes, there's many different ways that you can kill the one you love.

spk_0 The slowest way is never loving them enough. I was like, oh, I love that. Or I didn't like

spk_0 it. And the wavering in her voice, like, there was a lot of moments in that where I went,

spk_0 this is making me think. And if you guys had to pick a favorite lyric from the album, I truly

spk_0 for the life of me, I can't even think of one. Yeah. Yeah. And you even threw this question out to

spk_0 us in advance. You gave us a little outline said here, the things we're going to touch on. So I,

spk_0 I thought about it. I really tried. I've been thinking about it all day. And I can't. I can't

spk_0 find a single thing where I'm like, oh, that's like something. I think also an interesting

spk_0 notion with Taylor Swift is that you've always been able to imprint on her. Like, you've already,

spk_0 you've had a song and you go, oh my god, this is just like my coworker, the guy who sat behind

spk_0 me. I swear to God, it's like she's reading from my diary. And every single song in this album,

spk_0 I just think of Taylor and Travis specifically. And even though she's, you know, I've never been

spk_0 upstate dancing in the refrigerator light with a scarf around my neck, but all too well made me

spk_0 think of somebody in my own life or my own experience. And it's really interesting that not a single

spk_0 song in the album really makes me apply it to my own life. It seems very Taylor focused only. And

spk_0 I wonder why that is. Yeah, I know you take a line like I was trying to think of my favorite lines

spk_0 and all it kept coming to mind is just favorite lines from past albums. And I thought of the line I

spk_0 can go anywhere I want just not home. And that is like so good. And it means so much. So many different

spk_0 things to so many different people. And yeah, this does feel a bit co-written by Travis.

spk_0 Co-collaborator. Those allegations are honestly like she must be somewhere feuming that people are like,

spk_0 this is so Travis coated did Travis ghost right this? It seems like a lot, you know,

spk_0 all the way down to the reference of new heights and his podcast to describe his manhood

spk_0 to keep it 100, which is something that I know he says often. It's like there's both Travis slang

spk_0 in here and then also weird internet slang. Like I don't think that the word memes or trolling should

spk_0 like ever really be in a song that I want to personally listen to. But it has made me wonder,

spk_0 do you think that in the past she's maybe co-opted language or quotes that previous partners have

spk_0 said to her into her songs? Because as I was listening to past songs, I was thinking if she's done

spk_0 that and now we're hearing some of Travis's lyrics and it's very obvious because he speaks like such a

spk_0 frappro. The quote play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. I could see Joe saying that to her back

spk_0 in the day where she's like, I want to fight with this person. I want to be on the top. I need to do

spk_0 it. And he's like, look, if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. And it feels like we got a

spk_0 little bit of that with each of her muses. And now it's just very boss up, settled down,

spk_0 bellensy shades. Like I've just never even heard this type of stuff from Taylor. So do you think it's

spk_0 more internet influenced or more Travis influenced? Personally, I think it's boyfriend influenced

spk_0 because like we did get a lot of British slang on old records like, you know, fit like a day dream,

spk_0 I met all of his best mates, stuff like that. She likes to, you know, put a little bit of the flavor

spk_0 of her boyfriend's speech, I guess in it. And I've, you know, listen, we're former galaers. We've

spk_0 heard theories and because it's just so hard to swallow that she really is as boy crazy as she is

spk_0 being on main. And as she's putting forward and she's like, listen, you guys, I'm telling you,

spk_0 I love and I'm obsessed with my boyfriend. And I just want him and his dick and his words and

spk_0 his friends and his neighborhood. But that's what she's saying. And I have to believe her.

spk_0 Today's episode is brought to you by the new movie Regretting You, which is out in theaters on

spk_0 October 24th. The movie stars Alison Williams, who I absolutely love as an actress. I'm so excited

spk_0 to see her and more things. And McKenna Grace as a mother and daughter who have to rebuild after

spk_0 tragedy. And along the way, they uncover secrets of first love, heartbreak and second chances.

spk_0 It's directed by Josh Boone, the same director who did the fault in our stars. And it also

spk_0 stars Dave Franco, which made me very excited to see this in the trailer. You guys know how I feel

spk_0 about Dave Franco and his deep voice and his jawline and also his acting abilities. So mark your

spk_0 calendars because the movie Regretting You hits theaters on October 24th. So make plans now. This

spk_0 is the kind of movie where you are going to want to laugh and cry and scream along with the theater

spk_0 full of people. So grab your mom, your niece, your friend, your enemy, bring them with you and make

spk_0 it a whole event. Regretting You is only in theaters starting October 24th. Yeah, I mean, one of the more,

spk_0 it seems like a light-hearted line, but I found it very insidious when she went,

spk_0 pledge allegiance to your hands, your team, your vibe. And it's like just like pledge allegiance to

spk_0 your vibe. Like, like, it's just so, you know, you know, Ann Perkins from Parks and Rec. There was like

spk_0 a few episodes where she always takes on whatever her boyfriend is doing. If he's a rock climber,

spk_0 now she's going up to the mountains. If he's a cowboy, now she's got the hat and the boots on. And

spk_0 I understand that we all tend to do that. I mean, God knows I've gone to certain music festivals

spk_0 with my boyfriend that I never would have gone to if I was not dating him. But I find it really

spk_0 important to also, especially just because we do live in a patriarchy, this idea of like, I'm going

spk_0 to stand my ground and like, we can merge together in a compromising way, but I'm not going to take

spk_0 on who you are. And I really didn't like how in the song Wishlist, it seems like all the things

spk_0 that she's wishing for are things that Travis likes. And she's like, okay, I would be fine with this too.

spk_0 Because the Taylor Swift that I grew up with, I don't know her. She's a stranger. But I would

spk_0 imagine she wants a bookcase, a big library like Beauty and the Beast in her house. She wants a

spk_0 garden, a spiral staircase, a skylight in the kitchen. And I just hear none of that. I just hear a

spk_0 lot of Travis on this album. Yeah. And it's interesting because it's a lot of Travis. But then it's

spk_0 also so vague. Like, now we've had his dick described in so many different ways. But not there, day-to-day

spk_0 life together. You know, even I was thinking of songs like New Year's Day. It's so simple. It's not

spk_0 lyrically complex, but it paints a beautiful picture of like, they threw this party in their apartment,

spk_0 and now they're just cleaning up and like, sharing this intimate moment together. And with Travis, I'm like,

spk_0 okay, he's a big boy. And you want to have kids, but like, what about, tell us more about that?

spk_0 I am actually interested. I know he makes her feel like high school. We've had those allegations,

spk_0 or allegations that have those like those analogies made. But we've had through love or reputation,

spk_0 like so many albums, just a really vivid and elaborate picture painted of what it feels like to

spk_0 love that person. And I'm not getting that from her. Yeah. People were saying it's a very happy

spk_0 album. It's so happy. I don't know if I got that because, you know, in real listening to all of her

spk_0 other albums, in reputation, we have her soulfully screaming, you know, losing for the rest of my,

spk_0 like she's belting. And then in tortured poets, we have her, you know, wavering and yearning. And

spk_0 her voice sounds great. You know, she gets better and better, you know, with, I don't know,

spk_0 pitch boys, all of that stuff is the years go on. But I really didn't hear a lot of that

spk_0 emotion. And I've always loved how Taylor sings with emotion. And I find Olivia Rodrigo doing that

spk_0 as well. It's almost like their voice acting with every single word that they say, you know,

spk_0 breathless and whispers. And it seems very much like, I'm on top. I did it. I got it right. So I feel

spk_0 good about this. It's good, right? I feel good. But I don't know if I get a lot of happiness.

spk_0 Like what's the main emotion that sticks out to you when you listen to life of a show girl?

spk_0 I think that it's very mean and shallow. Like I think she's demeaning other women more than

spk_0 she has in the past. Like she'll usually throw a one diss track on there. But there's like casual

spk_0 bitches. Oh, these bitches wish I would fall down. Whatever bitch you were with in the past. I don't

spk_0 care wherever you've been, wherever your dick's been. Like your ex seems like a real idiot. Like

spk_0 I'm just like, whoa, like fucking chill out. Like you have everything in the world. Why are you being

spk_0 so nasty? Yeah. It's very insightful. Yeah. Or even why are you talking about his exes? Like I'm

spk_0 thinking of opalite the line about how you gave everything to your ex, but she was just on her phone.

spk_0 And okay, I think that would be fine enough if we didn't know exactly who his ex was. But we know

spk_0 she's her name's Kayla Nicole. They were together for almost five years. She probably deals with

spk_0 death threats every day of her life since Travis and Taylor got together. Taylor can't fully

spk_0 control that, but she doesn't need to feed it by being like, oh, this girl, like she was on her

spk_0 phone and not like mean though. Like it's different with me. Just leave it alone. Are you really trying

spk_0 to paint yourself as someone who doesn't have like time on your phone? Like you're like so unplugged.

spk_0 And like you're like, oh, when I'm home, I'm completely present. I'm just baking. I'm just in the

spk_0 kitchen. Like I don't even look at my work phone. Like is that really believable to people? It's so

spk_0 not. And I find celebrities do this all the time where they steer so far into a skid that it makes

spk_0 you suspicious just as a human inclination. Like when Hailey Bieber was like, I wasn't even a Justin

spk_0 Bieber fan. And it's like girl, you were or when mega marbles like I didn't even know who Prince

spk_0 Harry was at all. It's like if you swing so far to one side, you're just going to make people

spk_0 suspicious because you're you're planting a picture that's so black and white. It doesn't make sense.

spk_0 And I'm with you. I think that this album is really um, spiteful. And there was another review

spk_0 that I was reading somewhere where they were saying that Taylor is at her best where when she's

spk_0 punching up or like going against people who have wronged her. And that's why like the first few

spk_0 albums were so great. Like haven't we all been in that position before? But it falls not even flat.

spk_0 It's just tasteless and mean when all you're doing is punching down, down, down. And it's like

spk_0 you get to the top for what? You know, like I think that Olivia Rodrigo song The Grudge. And I think

spk_0 Taylor saying is about Taylor Swift and this idea of this um, you go maniacal figure who gets

spk_0 everything they want in life. And it's still enough because they always need someone to fight.

spk_0 They always need someone to win against. And it kind of makes me wonder like what is peace to

spk_0 Taylor Swift? Like when will it be enough? Because you've been at the top for five years now, you know?

spk_0 Yeah, you've been at the top. And I think the last I checked her net worth was at 1.6 billion. So

spk_0 there is there is a different definition when you say my checks bigger when you are a

spk_0 almost multi billionaire, it's not the same as even your common, I don't know, pop star and how

spk_0 much wealth they have. Yeah. And quick shout out to what you just said, um, my checks bigger. I saw

spk_0 great advice on TikTok to listen to the clean version. If you want to cringe a little less. And

spk_0 I just want to say that that you clocked that and it's good advice. I didn't know I had found

spk_0 the clean version. So I was like, she said, she said you're making me sweat on the Charlie

spk_0 Diss track. I was like, okay, but then I'm like, what are all these lyrics people keep talking about?

spk_0 So I realized I heard that I was a lot more dick stuff on real one. But it's also interesting

spk_0 because Taylor oscillates so much with this idea of I'm number one and I'm on top versus I'm

spk_0 the victim and I'm a complete underdog. And you almost even see it track for track. We're on one

spk_0 track. She's like, I'm a big dick girl with the big dick. And then the next track eldest daughter,

spk_0 it's like, I'm such a tiny dick girl. And I've always had the tiniest dick, you know? And then it's

spk_0 like, I don't care about what you're saying. And it's like, I do care about it. Like it's yeah,

spk_0 it's lost. Yeah. I'm not a bad bitch. I'm not a savage. But I will bury you with the fishes before

spk_0 you breathe in blank like, which oh my god. No. Okay. And also the like the racially coded language is

spk_0 not in just one song. There's a few that I'm just kind of like, oh Taylor, why do you have to say like

spk_0 I'm not a bad bitch and I'm not a savage. But I'll never let you down. Like it's just ever since you

spk_0 belong with me, it's always been this idea of, um, there's a girl out there who's bad. And I'm so

spk_0 pure and innocent and wonderful. And back in the day, it was she's a cheerleader. I'm in the

spk_0 marching band. But now it's she has a fat ass and a baby face and filler and blancy shades. But not

spk_0 me. I bake sourdough. So like this idea of Taylor being this like innocent person because it almost

spk_0 feels like that's her coping mechanism for like, maybe I can't be as cool or as effortless as

spk_0 other people. But instead I could say that I'm so virtuous and I'm so pious, you know? Like,

spk_0 I'm so good. Like I'll be the best girlfriend you've ever had. I'll do anything for you. I'll

spk_0 be whatever you want me to be. It's like, it's giving a bit desperate. And I liked in your outline,

spk_0 you said, like, where's the humility? Like I agree that there's no self reflection, no humility

spk_0 on this record. It just reads as like pure narcissism. You know, she has had songs before like the

spk_0 archer or anti hero where she's looking at herself and being like, you know, I do feed into a lot of

spk_0 this. And I am a bit of a villain. And that that's just something that's happened to me over the

spk_0 years. And I have to own it. But now she's she's like, take another hard left away from that.

spk_0 Yeah. I put in here. Oh, Emily, you go. Oh, well, I was just, yeah, I was going to echo like

spk_0 anti hero. I enjoyed that. And I felt like it offset any bravado from midnight. And here, you

spk_0 in every album, her most like personal and kind of intimate look at everything. And I'm like,

spk_0 your track five is telling Olivia Rodrigo, you're going to kill her. Like fair here with the

spk_0 fishes. I don't I'm not. Oh, I mean, track five is eldest daughter. I think track five.

spk_0 Yeah, we mean, we, oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, the track five is what you meant. And it's eldest daughter.

spk_0 And I'm sorry, but it's the worst song she's recorded her entire career. Like I'm shocked.

spk_0 I'm shocked that she put that in her like little fan spot of being like, this one's really

spk_0 personal and special for you guys. Like it's it's horrible. Like I agree with you because it's not

spk_0 with on the humility aspect. It's not that I want Taylor to be insecure and doubtful and questioning

spk_0 things. But I want the self-awareness. Like I was re-listening to folklore. So freaking good. And

spk_0 the song Marjorie about her grandmother where she goes, um, you know, like I did all of these things

spk_0 that complain the whole way there. I should have asked you questions. I should have asked you how to

spk_0 be this notion. I mean, at least one song on the album where there's at least one line of,

spk_0 did I do this right? Should I have done this better? You know, did I blah blah blah? Those are all

spk_0 normal things that we think about. And I think a great opportunity for it could have been in the bridge

spk_0 of, um, actually romantic because to me, it's so completely not self-aware to put out this song saying,

spk_0 oh, Charlie XCX, you must be obsessed with me. It's like you want to fuck me. Meanwhile,

spk_0 Taylor Swift has been singing songs about Card-, Kim Kardashian when she's been doing nothing more to

spk_0 provoke her for the past 10 years. And Taylor Swift is like a dog with a bone and can't let it go. So

spk_0 that could have been a great opportunity in the bridge to have some sort of thing of like, and you

spk_0 know what I get it because I've been there too or I've had this habit or I know what it's like. And

spk_0 none of that was there. It's like I've never done it. Um, you know, some people might be offended,

spk_0 but not me. I'm so not offended that I wrote an entire fucking song about it, bitch. And it's like,

spk_0 oh my god, like there's just so much hypocrisy here. So I'm with you. Like I really miss that

spk_0 yearning and questioning and being unsure. And it's a false provotto on a lot of the album.

spk_0 Yeah, like I think of the line, I think of the song piece. Like would it be enough if I can never

spk_0 give you peace and how she talked about? Like I am good with her exploring what it is to be Taylor

spk_0 Swift and what it is to be like the monster on the hill and just be so larger than life in her persona

spk_0 and struggling with that. If she can do it in interesting and creative ways, because I'm sure that's

spk_0 what makes up so much of her life of her day to day life is just being Taylor and like the entity

spk_0 that she is and saying like, would it be enough? I can never give you peace is such a beautiful

spk_0 expression of saying like, Hey, I know you've chosen me. And I know and because of that, our life is

spk_0 going to always have crazy things thrown at me is that enough? And that I don't need any more

spk_0 vulnerable or elaborate than that. Just a little touchdown, little touchdown.

spk_0 You're doing it too. I don't even down. Tell me. Yeah.

spk_0 But I'm with you. I mean, having we all had that moment where maybe we're moody or I'm hungry and

spk_0 I snap at my boyfriend and I go, Oh my god, being with me must be the worst. You know, you don't

spk_0 have to be Taylor Swift to feel those feelings of like, are you okay being with me? Because sometimes

spk_0 I'm a freaking handful. And I like, you know, those songs. So should we do everyone's favorite and

spk_0 least favorite song from the album? Let's do it. Sure. My favorite. I have to say my favorite

spk_0 is fate of Ophelia. I think it's the catchiest. You know, I still think that if you like some of

spk_0 these sounds, you should just go listen to some early Lana Del Rey, summertime sadness,

spk_0 textbook, like they they sound a lot like that song. Yeah, Opalites. Okay. But just respectful.

spk_0 And what's your least favorite? Oh, eldest daughter. Or I don't like the one where she says to

spk_0 the dead guy, I wish I would have kissed you. Okay. I said this whole picture. And remember when

spk_0 Mac Miller died and Tana Mojoo went online and was like, I actually hooked up with him and

spk_0 we've texted and like blah, blah, blah, it just kind of gave me similar feelings to that.

spk_0 Oh, it's not respectful. It's so weird. I like, I wonder what that guy's mom thinks.

spk_0 Like this is a real person from her husband where it was like, your girlfriend was away,

spk_0 but I should have kissed you anyway. She says in a song that she whispered it to his coffin.

spk_0 So spooked by her sometimes. Yeah. And like, her hornyness is just horrible. Okay, sorry.

spk_0 No, I'm with you. M fav, fave and least fave. Yeah, I would say fate of Opelia. I do have to put

spk_0 a little asterisk. It's like a former, I guess, English lit nerd of that. It is interesting

spk_0 that it's a play about like in Opelia, like in Hamlet, like Opelia is driven mad by essentially

spk_0 men and the patriarchy and, you know, drowns. And it's it's a bizarre twist to say like maybe if she

spk_0 had the right man, just like Travis came along for me, then she would have been fine actually, maybe.

spk_0 But yeah, it's a good it's a good song that I like Elizabeth Taylor. And then yeah,

spk_0 least favorite, I would have to say actually romantic and father figure because leave Charlie and

spk_0 Olivia alone. I like father figure, but yeah. Yeah, I think father figures my number one favorite

spk_0 only because I like when people are authentic. And I think Taylor's a little bit cuckoo. And

spk_0 anytime she shows her cuckoo, I go, that's what's up. I see you like I just and I like it to like

spk_0 Olivia Rodriguez singing the song obsessed like I love that type of stuff. Um, or when Taylor does

spk_0 better than revenge or mastermind, it's like, yeah, put it out there. You're a little nutso. And I

spk_0 want to see the freak flag fly. So I kind of like her singing about that. These favorite I'm with

spk_0 you, Sammy, like eldest daughter. I'm not even like the trolling and the memes. And then you get

spk_0 to the bridge and it's like we dressed up like wolves and we all looked fire. What are we doing?

spk_0 Like I almost feel like it's a joke when I hear this stuff, you know? And and maybe it is like maybe

spk_0 this is like a fuck you to her fans in some ways. Like I do feel a sense that she's getting

spk_0 angrier and angrier with the Swifties with each record she puts out like she's she needs them. She

spk_0 needs that like eras tour like feeding her ego, but she hates them too. And it's like I hate that

spk_0 you have expectations for me. I hate that you want me to be better than I am. I hate that you

spk_0 want me to speak out like I don't want to. You want me to be more than someone's girlfriend.

spk_0 I don't want to be like she's like chafing at the expectations on her, I think. You want to tell

spk_0 me I can't be friends with Brittany Mahomes will watch me. Oh, we haven't even talked about

spk_0 cancel. Yeah, should we talk about canceled a bit because you know, I made a tick talk about

spk_0 this where I was saying I'm I'm really intrigued by the fact that canceled is the one song in the

spk_0 album where you don't know who it's about. And I feel like Taylor is kind of a professional

spk_0 fan sitter. She always gives herself wiggle room even when she does stand up for things like I love

spk_0 how she posted in support of Kamala Harris. But then even in the caption she said, you know,

spk_0 vote for whoever you want to vote for who you believe in. So she always gives herself a little bit

spk_0 of wiggle room and there's something impactful on the line. And I find it interesting that you

spk_0 listen to the song canceled. And it's like, well, if you're talking about how you're so brave because

spk_0 you stand by your friends, is this about Blake Lively? Because for the better part of a year,

spk_0 everyone thought that you hated her. And that was the narrative. Or is it about Brittany Mahomes?

spk_0 Because you haven't said anything. So it's a lot of plausible deniability in a song where you're

spk_0 boasting about how brave you are because you don't care what happens. You're going to stand by your

spk_0 friends. So what do you think of the song? And who do you think it's about?

spk_0 So I listened to, I think it was I Heart Radio. She did two interviews where she talked a bit more

spk_0 about the meaning of the songs. And she didn't elaborate too much. But I know for canceled,

spk_0 she did say that it was she knows what it's like to be canceled and how hard it is. It gives

spk_0 her a different perspective. Okay, fair enough. But then she was saying she will stand by her friends.

spk_0 Not just if the public turns on them, she'll still stand by them unless they wronged her,

spk_0 which I thought was an interesting, maybe tiny insight into that. It's not about Blake.

spk_0 We still don't know what all went down with that. We might find out as the court case goes on.

spk_0 But it made me wonder if it was none. It was more about Brittany who we've seen. We've seen

spk_0 them out together a lot more recently. So and then I just thought about all the different types

spk_0 of cancellations. Like if it's people saying, oh, like Katy Perry, like your music sucks versus

spk_0 Brittany home is being like, well, you're a big Trump supporter and like defending, you know,

spk_0 all these heinous like acts of family members. Like it's a it's not all the same.

spk_0 All cancellations. I was I was going to say like I think this song is about her cell first and foremost

spk_0 another cell of pittying song. But if anything, yeah, it's about like Travis and like his bad tweets

spk_0 and being like, oh, I don't care. Like don't worry. I don't care unless you've said anything about me.

spk_0 I don't care what you do. Believe me, I was dating Maddie Healy, which is also wild too because

spk_0 you know, so many people have taken swings at her. A lot of people were saying this song actually

spk_0 romantic. That should have been centered towards Trump instead who's talking all the time about how

spk_0 she's not hot and not fuckable. But instead it's about Charlie XCX. We'll have to talk more about that

spk_0 song later. But we must. It's so much to talk about with that song. And in where she was doing

spk_0 those things where she like explains the song before it happens, her explanation of cancelled was

spk_0 saying like, I don't just cast people aside because of what people say about them. It's about how

spk_0 they treat me throughout my life. And I thought that was very interesting because it's the polar

spk_0 opposite of what she said when she won the billboard woman of the decade speech. And she said to

spk_0 everyone in that audience, when I talk about scooter brawn and everything bad that he's done to me,

spk_0 a lot of people say, well, he's always been nice to me. And sure, maybe he's been nice to you because

spk_0 you have something to give him. But he's done all of these horrible things. So here's why you

spk_0 should hate scooter brawn, which is logic that I think makes sense. If somebody fucks up, you know,

spk_0 Jeffrey Epstein didn't do anything to me. I still think he's a piece of shit, right? But then now

spk_0 she's using the logic of, oh no, it only matters what people do to me, which is just so egotistical.

spk_0 And it's the opposite of what she said like six years ago because so what? I should only be upset

spk_0 with scooter brawn if he's done something to me like her logic just kind of folds in on itself.

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spk_0 Quince.com slash fluently. And I think that this verse is really spooky where she says,

spk_0 if you can't be good, then just be better at it. Everyone's got bodies in the attic or took

spk_0 somebody's man will take you by the hand and soon you'll learn the art of never getting caught.

spk_0 I'm like, oh, Taylor. I actually never killed someone or taken someone's man, but I guess everyone

spk_0 else has. Well, everyone use around yourself with clearly like, yeah, she's a really dark figure

spk_0 on this album. And there really are a lot of moments where she just throughout her whole life in

spk_0 career where she is very relatable. She's very good at finding this little nugget's of relatability.

spk_0 But same and I really obsessed with her NYU commencement speech, like particularly the part

spk_0 where she goes like all of you at some point will wrong people again and again and just keep doing

spk_0 it and hurting yourself and hurting everyone around you and everyone telling you to stop. And it's

spk_0 like, we're like, what? Whoa, whoa, like I don't relate to yourself. Please. Yeah. At one point,

spk_0 you will hit someone and then you'll keep driving and then your assistant is going to take the

spk_0 body to a ditch and that's going to happen to everyone, but you're still going to graduate. It's like

spk_0 what? No. No, no, no, you lost us there or some of us. But yeah, go off if that's your experience.

spk_0 But I'm with you. It's very dark-sighted and I think, you know, when I listened to

spk_0 reputation, there were some lyrics in there where it was like, oh, I love how how I play a narcissist

spk_0 and I fly them all around the world. And it felt to me like she was kind of in her JoJo Siwa era,

spk_0 like putting on a little bit of a bad girl act because it's like, you know, we've known you for

spk_0 the past 10 years and we know that you take things very personally and you, you know, are up all

spk_0 night until 2 a.m. wondering about it. So I don't know if you can really serve Rihanna in the way

spk_0 that you're trying to, but it feels like she's not trying to be bad girl in this album. It feels like

spk_0 it's something much more sinister. There's like self-awareness has completely left the room and

spk_0 she's not even interested in it. And I find that really interesting too because then what's the

spk_0 purpose of art is an art to question things and to ponder and to see different perspectives.

spk_0 I think in the same way that science is like always evolving and you're always supposed to do

spk_0 new experiments and take new variables into account, you're supposed to do the same thing with art.

spk_0 And I don't see a lot of that on the album. I don't know if you guys feel the same way.

spk_0 I think she's using art as like a baseball bat in this case to just like assault her enemies

spk_0 and threaten them and make them feel afraid. And I think all creative people need breaks,

spk_0 need time to be doing nothing, downtime, live your life, like recharge. She doesn't do that. And I

spk_0 think she sounds tired, strained. Like I think she's like, oh, I did this. I flew to Sweden between

spk_0 a few shows and I recorded this whole album. I'm like, girl, nobody was expecting this album from

spk_0 you. Nobody asked you for this. Like you've been pumping out albums so fast and you're damaging your

spk_0 legacy. Like take a break. Yeah. And I know not every rollout can be like folklore. It's just like,

spk_0 oh, here's the album. That was a really special that never more. That was a really like special moment.

spk_0 But it was also the time and COVID and it was just it all worked. Everything worked about it.

spk_0 And since then the rollouts have become a lot about merch. But I think even for midnight,

spk_0 she did a lot of fun little videos on TikTok where she would have had this little machine or

spk_0 this little rollout. Yeah, bingo balls like to have us guessing like what the titles would be

spk_0 like something. We're not asking for much, but just something like that. And then I saw people

spk_0 that went to the like launch of the life of a showgirl that they did in theaters. And they said

spk_0 like they were just disappointed. And instead of it starting with some kind of like thank you

spk_0 or just something personal, it was like an ad for the target exclusive vinyl. And they're like,

spk_0 we're already here spending money at the movie theater to listen to the album. Like can you

spk_0 have something? I saw this comment somewhere online where people were saying it's now the

spk_0 Marvel commodification of what it is because back in the day you used to say, oh man, I like

spk_0 Spider-Man. He's the best. But now it's like, no, no, no, you didn't get the ending of the movie

spk_0 because you didn't see the previous 12 shows on Netflix. And then you also didn't see this. And

spk_0 then also there's like a hidden scene in the previous movie. And then that's what makes it make sense.

spk_0 And now if it's like, oh, I don't like Taylor's song, it's like, well, did you listen to these

spk_0 past three previous songs? And then also the poems and then also the acoustic version that she put out.

spk_0 And like you need to know all of this to understand it. It's almost like like you were saying this

spk_0 kind of weird subscription model with music. And I know a lot of people say it's just because she's

spk_0 a woman. Like if she's number one, she's number one, she shouldn't have to make space for other people.

spk_0 But I don't see it as authenticity and music. Like for example, you know, we'll talk about actually

spk_0 romantic soon. But when Taylor put out that new variant that was only available in the UK at one

spk_0 point to try to block Charlie from getting on the charts, like I don't think that Taylor's the

spk_0 bet. She's number one, but I don't think that's because she's the best musician. I think it's

spk_0 because she's the best business woman or capitalist or at least her team is. So I think like

spk_0 that's something that really frustrates me too. And people are like, well, Taylor's on top and

spk_0 there's a reason for that. And it's like, yeah, I think the reason is that the writing used to be

spk_0 really good. And now she just has all of these different methods to get her to the top where

spk_0 if it's like, oh, three million albums were sold, well, if each person bought four variants,

spk_0 it wasn't a true three million number. And I feel like that's the big focus of what she does now.

spk_0 She's in a abusive relationship with her fans. Like it's crazy at this point.

spk_0 Yeah, I was like, I'm one part of me. I wonder is like, because we all know 13s, her lucky number.

spk_0 And there's going to be more music. So I'm like, is this some big sia up like break them down

spk_0 with number 12 before we build them up with some like the most incredible music? Like she's

spk_0 ever written. I keep wanting to look to giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not,

spk_0 I'm not able to find it without like really getting tin hat theory about it.

spk_0 I think it's also there's a collective exhaustion that I think everyone's feeling both like

spk_0 politically, both in the day to day world, both with work like, you know, it's not only

spk_0 creatives who need breaks like my god, we all could use a break right now. And I think that's

spk_0 just how I feel with Taylor Swift right now. Like after we do this episode, I'm happy to not

spk_0 have any more thoughts about Taylor Swift for a long time. Like it's just kind of exhausted

spk_0 and depleted at this point. And I am really looking forward to there being a new number one person

spk_0 on top because I think that would push her. I think it would hone her skills. Olivia Rodrico,

spk_0 step up to the stage. Ready. So should we talk about um actually romantic because obviously this

spk_0 is the Charlie XC X diss track, but interestingly enough, the music and the vibe and the tone is very

spk_0 Olivia Rodrico coded. So do you think that that's on purpose or do you think it's just a happy coincidence

spk_0 for a nutter like Taylor? I mean, it's not only does it sound like Olivia Rodrico, it sounds like

spk_0 pixies. Where is my mind? It sounds like many other artists, you know, she's trying to say it

spk_0 ain't so. Yeah. Yeah. How funny would it be if there was some kind of class action lawsuit between

spk_0 like weezer, the Jonas Brothers, like all the different artists that have songs that sound like

spk_0 one jackson five. They're in it. The minute I heard would I was like, are you freaking kidding me?

spk_0 This is the jackson five. And I think it's just, but then you've built Taylor into such a behemoth

spk_0 that who would go against her because her lawyers are probably absolutely wild. Nobody would win

spk_0 something like that. So when you first heard actually romantic, what was your initial thought?

spk_0 I had just rewatched Mean Girls and so I just kept thinking of Regina George being like, oh my

spk_0 god, Janice Ian, you have a big lesbian crush on me and like that's that's what the whole thing

spk_0 sounded like when I'm still coming off of Sympathy's a knife and to me, I'm well, I'm a big

spk_0 brat fan, but Sympathy's a knife to me is one of the most beautifully devastatingly vulnerable

spk_0 songs because how fucking embarrassing is it to admit to this human experience of being like,

spk_0 I am so irrationally jealous of this person. And even when people try to calm me down,

spk_0 that is a knife because it's like, why am I even having this conversation? Why? Like there was not

spk_0 a single bad word set about her other than like, oh, I hope you guys break up because I just don't

spk_0 want to see you anymore because I feel crazy and this is all on me. She says, this girl taps my

spk_0 insecurities. She says it. And you didn't receive that. And at the time when they were crossing

spk_0 paths, Charlie had just come out with crash, which was this album that was supposed to be what

spk_0 brat was meant to be. It was this big commercial pop sounding record. And I think she was feeling

spk_0 like, okay, I'm still at the bottom. And here's this, here's like my peer, but who's way ahead of

spk_0 me. And I'm just never going to be here. I came and tried like, there, there's some things like

spk_0 so incredible about putting that thought out there to the world. And yeah, actually romantic.

spk_0 I don't know if Taylor thought that that was a response to it. I'm with you. Like I thought the

spk_0 most vulnerable part. I mean, there was so much in Sympathy as a knife, but when she was talking

spk_0 about a how like George tells her that she should try to forget about it and how she's embarrassed

spk_0 but she needs the sympathy. How many times, okay, the number of times that like poor Xander,

spk_0 like he's next to God, the way that I've been like, ranting on and on. And like, with a girl,

spk_0 you can beat a dead horse over and over. But I feel like with a guy, like you only get maybe 20

spk_0 times to rant about the same thing. Being like, I know that I've talked about it all week, but I

spk_0 just have like one more thing because it's on my mind. So when Taylor sings in how many times has

spk_0 your boyfriend said, which by the way, I think it's interesting that she said boyfriend because they

spk_0 were engaged for a while and are now married, but whatever. Maybe she made the song a while ago.

spk_0 How many times has your boyfriend said, why are we always talking about her? I just thought that

spk_0 was so mean because it's like, I, that's one of the things that I'm the most embarrassed about

spk_0 is how much I can go on and on about something, just ruminating because I haven't been able to

spk_0 let it go. And also, we know that Taylor Swift, like you just fucking put out thank you Amy about

spk_0 how you want Kim Kardashian's daughter to hate you because she listens to your music. If anyone is

spk_0 obsessed like dog with a bone can't let something go, I would think that she would understand that

spk_0 feeling. So I also feel like actually romantic is not at all what Taylor feels. I think she was

spk_0 telling someone how upset she was with this Charlie song and somebody went, well, you know what?

spk_0 It's actually almost even flattering because she's obsessed with you and she went, okay, that's the

spk_0 narrative I'm going to try to go with. I don't think that she truly believes that Charlie is obsessed

spk_0 with her or the attention is nice. Like I think none of the feelings are real on that song.

spk_0 And I think there's some insecurity being triggered in her because even though she's a much,

spk_0 much bigger artist than Charlie, she always will be. Charlie's thing is that she is a cool girl.

spk_0 She's a very effortlessly cool girl. The photos from her wedding, it's just the who's who of all the

spk_0 like cool influencers and celebrities like smoking sigs by the ocean and it's all just she is all

spk_0 the things that Taylor makes a point of claiming that she's not. So I wonder if that fed into it.

spk_0 But I also just want to point out like girl so confusing. You talk about Charlie diss tracks.

spk_0 Girl so confusing that she that Charlie wrote about Lord could have been something that Lord could

spk_0 have taken offense to and I wouldn't have blamed her, but instead Lord turned it around and

spk_0 came up with the remix, which is just one of the most incredible songs of the year to me,

spk_0 the decade of being like, wow, it's a really human moment. So I'm going to look at myself and

spk_0 let's look at ourselves together and what we learn from that kind of love, something like that.

spk_0 Yeah, she she denigrated Charlie's work from this song. Like she reduced things down to like a

spk_0 petty fight and it's she's already done this so many times she has songs like I forgot that you

spk_0 existed where it's like girl, if you did, you know, you wouldn't have written a whole song about it.

spk_0 And to say, oh yeah, you're like a dog, a chihuahua barking from a purse. That's how much it hurts.

spk_0 Like I'm sure it hurt you tailored. Like you're the thinnest, skinned person in the world. Like

spk_0 you can say that it hurt you. It's really okay to do that. But the Regina George thing that you

spk_0 said, the like this is when I put my tin hat on because the fact that she released this album on

spk_0 October 3rd, being girl's day, like I literally think it's intentional. I think she's like

spk_0 referencing Regina George also. I saw a resurfaced article saying that when she was in high school

spk_0 and she was getting money from her, her songs already, she bought Regina George's exact model Lexus

spk_0 to show the girls at her school that she was that bitch and she didn't want to be bullied anymore.

spk_0 So she is, she's very much like a Regina George type character. And the fact that like as former

spk_0 galaers, if someone told me that in 2025, she would have a song saying that a girl is getting me wet.

spk_0 It's this specific girl. It's a famous girl that everyone knows. I would say like okay, she'll

spk_0 she'll be out. But the fact that it's in the context of homophobic bullying saying like wow,

spk_0 you're just a big lesbian. Like you're so obsessed with me. I'm like what are we, how do we get here?

spk_0 I don't even know what to say. I just find it really wild. And I think that there's also

spk_0 extra credit little bonus snarks in there too. Not that she included, but that add to the situation.

spk_0 Because it's yeah, it's mostly about Charlie XCX. But let's not forget, you high five my X, you know,

spk_0 like because he ghosted me. Maddie being friends with Charlie is probably a big reason why she's

spk_0 so triggered by this. In the same way that people talk about Katie Perry and the dancers on tour.

spk_0 But let's not forget Katie Perry was dating John Mayer and they were in matching Christmas sweaters

spk_0 on the Ellen show. So I'm sure Taylor felt a little bit of a way about that. And first of all,

spk_0 it says that you've been trying to source gossip about what Charlie is doing because how else would

spk_0 you know that you high five to Maddie over getting ghosted. So you're trying to look for gossip

spk_0 about what's happening. And then I also think that there's a, you know, a thing she's got going on

spk_0 with Gabriette, which is Maddie's fiance because I was rewatching some of these old music videos.

spk_0 And in Fortnite, when she's got the pencil thin eyebrows and the tattoos on her face like in black

spk_0 and white, it's kind of giving like trying to do Gabriette with her eyebrows. And then the photo

spk_0 for one of the promos were tailors sitting on a room service tray. And there's like the pasta by her.

spk_0 And we know that like Charlie XCX and that crew of people they went out one night and they were

spk_0 picking up pasta with their hands and eating it, which everyone thought was so offensive. And I'm like,

spk_0 I don't know, ever since I saw Elf, I've always wanted to do that, but whatever. And next to Taylor is

spk_0 like that pasta. And she's posing in the same pose that Gabriette is in in that photo of all of

spk_0 them when pasta night happened. So I'm like, I just don't, that's kind of interesting to me that

spk_0 Taylor, she always talks about things that she bakes or sourdough or how chicken tenders was her

spk_0 favorite, but she had the same pasta in the same pose as Gabriette. And it's like, dude, I think

spk_0 that, and I like when people are obsessed, especially when it's mutual obsession. And I just

spk_0 think that there's mutual obsession between both camps going on wanting to know what the other is

spk_0 doing. And Taylor trying to pretend like there isn't is just so blase to me. It just doesn't, it's

spk_0 very hollow. Yeah, you read my mind with the Gabriette things I was just thinking about how on

spk_0 tortured poets department, there's a line about like it's about Maddie Helian. It's like, oh, you dated

spk_0 you dated internet starlet. So internet starlet. So and yeah, and I agree that the obsession thing,

spk_0 that actually is probably one of her most relatable traits because like speaking of mean girls,

spk_0 I'm part where it's like, I could hear myself talking about Regina George and like everyone

spk_0 getting tired, but I couldn't stop. Like that is one of the realest moments of the movie. Like,

spk_0 we're all that blessed God bless our partners for like really sticking through like all the

spk_0 rants, but yeah, I and I wonder if Taylor thinks of herself more as like a Katie Heron or if she's

spk_0 like thinks of herself as like trying to sometimes embrace a Regina George, I don't know. I think she's

spk_0 confused. And when her Katie refuting, they said they called each other Regina George like in the press.

spk_0 Like it's clearly it's like a thing for her like, but yeah, she's always the victim. I saw some

spk_0 writer, I can't remember where I saw this, but they were talking about like, how is she still

spk_0 talking about conflict as for play and making, feuding like sexual and romantic at her big age,

spk_0 you know, it's a little bit, a little bit disturbing. I like obsession too. I like obsession too,

spk_0 but this is something else. But it's also like when Olivia Rodrigo sings about obsession,

spk_0 she's done these themes before. She's done a law sympathy as a knife, you know, you tap my

spk_0 insecurities, Sabrina Carpenter, this beautiful blonde girl. But then she's also sung about Lacey,

spk_0 where she's like, and I hate myself and my twisted mind for feeling these feelings, but like you

spk_0 have everything that I want or even an obsessed, I'm so obsessed with your ex to she have all of these

spk_0 good qualities that I don't have. She she still sings about obsession in a self-aware and humbling

spk_0 version where she knows that she's trying to measure up to someone and and she acknowledges the

spk_0 love in it. The love. Like there's like, I am I'm so jealous and obsessed and I'm entranced by

spk_0 you and I'm like, wow, like you have something I don't have like Taylor could have could have been

spk_0 real about that. Of course, she's threatened by Charlie X, yes, of course, she's threatened by Olivia

spk_0 Rodrigo. So be real. Like that's what everyone else is doing. Like other pop girls are pushing forward

spk_0 feminist dialogue and honesty and openness and songs and you're sending the clock back. It's

spk_0 disappointing. Yeah, people were also saying about this song too. It seemed like the she was trying

spk_0 to do a little bit of a ripoff of Mike Kink as karma by Chapel Rone where it's like your misery is,

spk_0 you know, pushing me to climax and we can also move a little bit into the song would as well. It

spk_0 seems like there's a lot of Sabrina trying to be Sabrina Carpenter references on here and if

spk_0 there's many things that Taylor Swift has done being a very sexual and vulgar mouthed

spk_0 person has not really crossed her path in the last 15 years. Why do you think that on this album,

spk_0 there's so many dick references and talking about getting wet and how her dick is big. Where do we

spk_0 think that came from? It's weird. In torture post like yeah, in torture post department like she did

spk_0 a Lou Tamayi stick like she was like, you don't measure up to any measure of a man. I'm like,

spk_0 at this point I'm just grateful we didn't have to hear about Joe Alwyn's dick because now we're

spk_0 hearing about everyone's. It wasn't just right. Not too big, not too small. Goldie. Yeah.

spk_0 And that's why it's bizarre. I'm like, is that the main thing about your relationship?

spk_0 Because some people are like, yeah, that's our main thing is we just have sex all the time. And

spk_0 that's really like the glue that binds us together. I'm like, okay, sure. But you, Shannon, you mentioned

spk_0 false god earlier. That was a great, I love that song. And it does. I can see you are wildest dreams,

spk_0 you know, guilty as sin. She references masturbating and climaxing and all of these things

spk_0 in a beautiful way where you go hell yeah. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by the new

spk_0 movie Regretting You, which is out in theaters on October 24th. The movie stars Alison Williams,

spk_0 who I absolutely love as an actress. I'm so excited to see her and more things. And McKenna Grace,

spk_0 as a mother and daughter who have to rebuild after tragedy. And along the way, they uncover secrets

spk_0 of first love, heartbreak and second chances. It's directed by Josh Boone, the same director who

spk_0 did the fault in our stars. And it also stars Dave Franco, which made me very excited to see this

spk_0 in the trailer. You guys know how I feel about Dave Franco and his deep voice and his jawline

spk_0 and also his acting abilities. So mark your calendars because the movie Regretting You hits theaters

spk_0 on October 24th. So make plans now. This is the kind of movie where you are going to want to laugh

spk_0 and cry and scream along with the theater full of people. So grab your mom, your niece, your friend,

spk_0 your enemy, bring them with you and make it a whole event. Regretting You is only in theaters

spk_0 starting October 24th. Not a wood. I don't know how many people are saying hell yeah to the song wood.

spk_0 I think it's sort of the source of collective disappointment. The most of what I'm seeing online.

spk_0 But yeah, it's getting a lot of cringes. Yeah, new heights of manhood. That's a really tough line.

spk_0 I don't have to I don't need to catch the bouquet and know a hard rock's on the way.

spk_0 But even if it wasn't her boyfriend's dick, just shouting out the name of his podcast,

spk_0 I do not like that one Iota and then new heights of manhood. And then it also feels like not

spk_0 not to say that Taylor needs to be this like cultural icon who says everything, you know,

spk_0 completely politically correct. Like I want messy songs. But there's a lot going on with manhood.

spk_0 I would imagine how Joe Allwyn didn't care about your reputation and wanted to be with you for

spk_0 you and not the fame. I would say that's a great version of manhood. I would say loyalty and

spk_0 dedication as manhood sticking through someone. And I don't know, their parents are sick and they go

spk_0 take a week off to help you with your parents. Like there's so many different versions of manhood.

spk_0 But apparently his redwood tree is the new height of manhood. Like please.

spk_0 Well, I think with that, it's the authenticity of it because if you analyze Sabrina Carpenter

spk_0 lyrics, I think well, first of all, I think Sabrina Carpenter is the biggest winner of this whole

spk_0 album cycle because everyone I feel like was tired of her after man's best friend. And now

spk_0 everyone's like, you're this is a cheap version of Sabrina. But I look at the song like House

spk_0 Tour. And it's catchy and it's can't be I'm not the biggest fan of her latest album, but it's

spk_0 very much her. She is a authentically a very horny person. And she has a sense of humor and camp.

spk_0 Like you said, like there is no humor to be found in Taylor Swift. Like we've talked about it before.

spk_0 It's like this girl. Like she's just a lot of things talented. Is she funny?

spk_0 What do we think is the funniest song that she's ever done? Because it seems like everything in

spk_0 this album is very much like I'm trying to be funny, but like I have so much to prove. And like

spk_0 you better believe that this is what it is. Um, god, I'm trying to think if she's ever done. I mean

spk_0 I guess had a little bit of some humorous elements to it. I think she would still bring that with

spk_0 with complete seriousness. Yeah. And like that's not that's not even to me to say someone's not that

spk_0 funny. I guess it sounds like her criticism to me. It's not I have people in my life that I

spk_0 love dearly. And I'm like, they're fun. Maybe I wouldn't say this to their face. But like some

spk_0 people are just not that funny, but they're good people or they're interesting and they make great

spk_0 conversation. Like Sabrina's whole thing. I remember her saying an interview that she just she

spk_0 couldn't get it right with emails. I couldn't send. She was trying to be like soulful and heartfelt.

spk_0 And it was her producer was like, wait, you're really funny though. Like when we're not recording,

spk_0 why don't you bring that in? And that's when everything fell into place. But yeah, I think the

spk_0 step before being funny is having a good sense of humor and to have a good sense of humor about

spk_0 things. You have to be able to poke fun at yourself and laugh at yourself. And it feels like Taylor

spk_0 Swift does do that sometimes in interviews. But it feels like a very planned out self deprecating.

spk_0 Like, you know, it seems like she was doing all those life of a showgirl images. And people were like,

spk_0 you know, I don't know if sex really works for her. So then she put out this thing of how she's

spk_0 a life of a showgirl, but she's clunky and she's not arching her back and kicking over the can weird.

spk_0 So it feels like she's I don't even really know what it is. But I'm with you there. There's a lack

spk_0 of zest in the album. And I think what comes with zest is happiness. And I think that there's

spk_0 a lack of happiness in the album too. Yeah. Like what is it? Okay. What do you think it is about

spk_0 songs like false god or dress dress such a good song that is basically just about hooking up.

spk_0 Like that is so good versus wood. It's torture. You know, false god, we might not get away with it.

spk_0 But this is the last thing that we can do the alter. You know, even if it's this, there's stakes on

spk_0 the line. And I think with dress, there's secrecy. And we might not be able to do that. But I want

spk_0 you like a best friend. This is what I want, you know. And I think even when she's singing about

spk_0 what she wants, even in the song wish list, which is like very clearly, this is what I want because

spk_0 it's on my wish list, it just feels very hollow. There's like a lack of passion or like I desire this,

spk_0 which maybe you lose your desire once you're up at the top. But even in Folklor ever more, she was

spk_0 saying I desire peace, I desire stability, I desire a quiet moment alone. And it's hard for me

spk_0 to really tell what she desires other than getting married and having this big fucking wedding that

spk_0 everybody goes to want to yacht. And then it just feels once again like very hollow. Yeah, like

spk_0 she talks about Travis kind of like a prize that she has won like more like a status symbol. And

spk_0 now she's like, wow, I'm really going to stick it to all the haters into my exes into his exes.

spk_0 Like look, I fucking won. But yeah, the desires in there's just like he's got a big hard cock. Believe

spk_0 that, ladies. If anyone doubted it before, you're not going to doubt it after hearing this album. Yeah,

spk_0 I know. I know like so much of it is like so much of with with Travis, I mean besides describing his

spk_0 like new heights is just this is what I picture in the future. The design picture like all the kids

spk_0 and the whole block looks like him. Oh, can we talk about wish list specifically? Please. Yes,

spk_0 my second. So disturbing. Oh my god. I like have a couple kids got the whole block look in like you.

spk_0 Okay. So she just said a couple kids. So who's the other who's the rest of the block? Like looking

spk_0 like the kids, the kids live in your house too. So why are yeah, who are the other people on the

spk_0 block? Are you saying like wondering? It's like it's, are you saying you want to like move in

spk_0 next door to his brother and like raise all your identical white children together and like

spk_0 why say the whole block looking like you in the political climate we're in right now?

spk_0 Well, it also reminds me when I listened to that song back in the day I used to before I had

spk_0 to stop rage watching things because my YouTube algorithm just took it as me being interested. But

spk_0 there was I think like fresh and fit and there were some other like magosphere like red pill

spk_0 bro podcasts where they would have like girls on and they would like debate them. But it was really

spk_0 just trying to humiliate them and ask them what their body count was. And in all of these podcasts,

spk_0 they would be like, oh my god, like girls just want to get like flown out to Dubai and blah blah blah.

spk_0 And I remember in New York I was breaking up with an ex before I moved to Denver and he had fallen

spk_0 down that red pill, man, a sphere vibe. And I remember at one point he asked me if I had ever been

spk_0 flown out to Dubai. And I was like, have I ever been flown out to Dubai? I, all my to-do list is

spk_0 get a library card like that is not my sphere of what's going on. But those red pill bros

spk_0 only invite on like only fan models and girls who like want to be on to like get, I don't know,

spk_0 cloud or something. And you know, no shade to the girls. There's also great girls who go on there.

spk_0 But when that's the only women you meet, you develop this ideology where it's like, oh,

spk_0 women get flown out to Dubai. And it's like a lot of women knit and listen to true crime and make

spk_0 vision boards. Like you have no idea of what's going on with women. So when Taylor singing in wishlist,

spk_0 oh, everybody wants bullency shades and a fat ass and a baby face and they want this. It's like

spk_0 you have no concept of humanity and what people want. Most people want the price of eggs to go down

spk_0 and to be able to have a three day weekend every once in a while and to find someone that they love.

spk_0 And there's also this loneliness epidemic going on. So people would really just be happy dating

spk_0 somebody who plans a date like we are at base camp zero. And she's like, everybody wants the yacht

spk_0 but not me. And it's like, you don't you're so fucking at it. And it's so bad because she's

spk_0 talking about herself again. You're the one with the bullency shades in the yacht. Like you are the

spk_0 person like and you're trying to make fun of what other people want. Like they're being so shallow

spk_0 and stupid when you have everything. And so if you don't want it, fucking give it to me then.

spk_0 Yeah. And not to mention the line that stands out to me too about you, you guys want a dog that you

spk_0 call your kid, but on me, I want a lot of real kids and then I want the whole like, but your whole

spk_0 thing before was I'm a childless cat lady and I love my cats are like my kids. So why are it feels like

spk_0 I'm throwing under the buzz that people are like, oh, my pet like my pets are my kids and I'm not

spk_0 going to have kids. I don't know. Like looking at it because she did it to herself and meeting her

spk_0 fans. Yeah. And she's allowed to change her mind. But she did say in the I Heart radio interview,

spk_0 she's like, this is about what other people want contrasting with the different things that I want

spk_0 for myself. And so, okay, yeah, you you don't want three dogs, but you do have three cats and those

spk_0 were your kids. And now it's okay if you want more, but I don't know like why the like comparing.

spk_0 And even what she wants in the song when you go back and listen to the lyrics, it's kids and the

spk_0 whole block looking like you and a basketball hoop. There's really only three things that she says

spk_0 that she wants in the song. The bulk of the song is talking about what everyone else wants and how

spk_0 much it fucking sucks. You know, so like I would imagine if you're singing a song, it's like I want

spk_0 all of these things. I want these things. And then the bridge might be everyone else wants a yard and

spk_0 you know, a fat ass, but not me. And then back to all of these things that she wants. But once again,

spk_0 you interpret it as a negative song because the majority of what she's singing about is putting

spk_0 down what other people want. And then a tiny little bit is what she wants and how much better it is.

spk_0 And I feel like that yeah, it goes for the whole album. It's so disingenuous. It's so disingenuous

spk_0 to say, I, oh, I, I don't want like my body to be banging like I just want you, my boyfriend.

spk_0 Like I don't want money. I don't want things. Cartier, whatever. Like I am so not that girl.

spk_0 It's pick me and it's pathetic and it's fake. And in the same way that she goes in one song,

spk_0 I'm a big dick girl to I'm a tiny dick girl and I've never been a bad bitch, right?

spk_0 Literally in Elizabeth Taylor, she goes, I would trade it all for the Cartier just kidding. And then

spk_0 in Mishlash, she goes, fuck anyone who wants Cartier, I want a basketball hoop. So like she's quite

spk_0 literally contradicting herself track by track in the album, which I get it. Like we all have

spk_0 opposing opinions. We change how we feel. But then it makes it really hard to understand what the core

spk_0 value is here or what she's trying to say. I mean, the number one thing that I liked about

spk_0 ruin the friendship is how at the end there was a lesson. And she's like, my advice is always

spk_0 ruin the friendship. I like a storytelling in a song or here's a lesson that I've learned. And

spk_0 here's what I would pass along. We got a little bit of it in ruin the friendship. I don't think we

spk_0 got any of that in any of the other songs. Yeah, just she wants a spring break that's fucking lit.

spk_0 Best friend, she thinks it's hot. She wants to boss up, settle down. Yeah, I best friend who I think

spk_0 is hot. That is what she said she's always dreamed of. And like she had with Carly. Carly mentions

spk_0 that. Thank God. Yeah, Carly. Her greatest muse. Perhaps after this, I'm like, or I don't know,

spk_0 was it Joe? Was it William Bowrie? The one time easy. Freaking Adam Young from Owl City who she

spk_0 met once was a better muse than Travis for this entire album because she wrote enchanted about

spk_0 meeting him for like briefly at a party. And that's like an amazing song. So Adam Young, you're

spk_0 officially better. Wait, wow, that's a shockingly true statement. Yeah, I know it is bizarre, but I've

spk_0 tried to understand Travis also like, I mean, all I we don't know. We don't know these people, but

spk_0 I watched his What's in My Bag video for I believe GQ and my God, sorry, I didn't know that he did

spk_0 What's in My Bag. He's like, this is my toothbrush. You know, this is my soap. Like it was just a real

spk_0 simple. He is a pretty simple guy. He's like, these are my socks. Like it was there were some little

spk_0 personal things, but I was like, that's just he is just a more surface level person, which by the

spk_0 way, those are the people I'm the most jealous of the most, I think they're potentially happier than

spk_0 overthinkers of the world. So I'm like, good for him, but I yeah, there's not there's not like too

spk_0 many layers to peel back there. Yeah, my hot take is that everyone says that athletes are so stupid,

spk_0 but like, exercise is really good for, you know, lowering stress levels, getting sleep. Like they

spk_0 might be happier because they're exercising so much. So I do look at a quote-unquote like simple

spk_0 hymnbo who's like working out all the time. And I'm like, man, your microbiome is probably a lot

spk_0 better than mine because I'm, you know, my cortisol lovers are through the roof. So maybe I could do

spk_0 a little bit of what you're doing too. But yeah, he's definitely, um, I don't know if he gives me

spk_0 as I think you need a little bit of mystery and distance. And I don't know. Well, their engagement

spk_0 was part of the rollout for this. It was album engagement, you know, his whole families. I'd really

spk_0 get on it. Yeah, then the new Heights podcast, all of them, and then the new Heights reference in

spk_0 the album. It's a very carefully thought out rollout. Just not necessarily the ones we're used to

spk_0 where it's all about Taylor and her just talking to the fans. It's more like the whole Kelsey families

spk_0 in on it. They're all giving statements and producing content. And yes, we're going to hear about

spk_0 it on the traders when his mom's going to be on there. Like, oh, it's Donna. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Well, she all in could never what's coming next year because I'm curious to know it seems like

spk_0 other than Rolling Stone, which gave the album five out of five, like the minute that it dropped,

spk_0 which I think is, please come on now. But um, everyone else is basically saying, I think that this

spk_0 is her worst album. It seems like she's regressing. And I can't even believe the lyrics. The way that at

spk_0 19, speak now with self written by her and every single song has such great lyrics. Now I'm almost

spk_0 even, I hate to say it, but now I'm starting to think maybe there were ghost writers or something.

spk_0 Like, I kind of want to look back because there's no other possible explanation for why the songwriting

spk_0 could be this fucking junior on your 12th album. But Nappy and said, how do you guys think she's

spk_0 reacting to the criticism? What do you think we're going to see as a response because of it?

spk_0 She's definitely rallying the troops with Rolling Stone. There was another one. I think it was Bill

spk_0 Bord or something where there are a variety. There's a few that seem bought and paid for you could say.

spk_0 Yeah. But even those, I had to read the positive five out of five album reviews because even they

spk_0 were like, although some of the lyrics could be a little go. It's saved by the melodies. And like,

spk_0 they're trying to be like, look, we get it. But also it's the best thing she's ever done. The melodies,

spk_0 the production is not there. It is not there. Like, reputation, the production felt like it was

spk_0 a million miles high. It was huge. Sammy, I have to send you. I sent this to Emily. There's this guy

spk_0 on TikTok who's taking the lyric or the whatever vocals of the song and pairing it to the background

spk_0 of previous songs. So I think he paired up wish list with, I don't know, big reputation and

spk_0 game or something like that. And then he paired up like eldest daughter with the newer

spk_0 Omatics. And it sounded like a great song. So I was like, huh, that's interesting. Everyone's

spk_0 talking about how the lyrics suck and saying, oh, well, at least Max Martin did his job. But then

spk_0 when you listen to it with, I don't even know if the beats are that good because when you set a

spk_0 rate that it doesn't really sound that impressive. Well, they're not. They're reductive.

spk_0 Yeah. I watched those videos when I was just waking up from a nap. And I was like, wait, I have

spk_0 this album is actually much better than I remembered. And I'm like, oh, no, this is not. This is a

spk_0 mashup. Yes. Everyone was hating on Jack Antonov. And then she's like, okay, I'm, I'm not going to

spk_0 work with him. I'm going to work with Max Martin. I'm like, maybe she needed that friendship with

spk_0 Jack in studio to feel comfortable for something deeper to come out. Well, Jack's name was cleared.

spk_0 This is like he was, he was, he must be so happy wherever he's at to be like, everyone was

spk_0 dogging on me saying I ruined her last few albums. This is what she does without me. It's worse.

spk_0 So know that. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I owe him a big apology. But also he did A&W with Lonnie

spk_0 Del Rey. He did Norman fucking rock well. He's done a lot of really good stuff. So it must just be

spk_0 Taylor's influence. So I would imagine her reaction will be to keep, I think she did this with

spk_0 reputation too. Just keep feverishly posting the reviews that say it's the best album ever. And

spk_0 then maybe in a documentary three years ago, we find out that she had a crash out this week or

spk_0 something. I don't want, I've been wondering if there's a documentary. Oh, yeah. I've been

spk_0 feeling like there's maybe a documentary being filmed in the background somewhere. I don't know,

spk_0 we'll find out. But she resurrected iTunes. They tweeted for the first time in years being like

spk_0 100 out of 100 incredible album. Okay, we're reaching. But okay. Well, and now for final,

spk_0 final thoughts, Taylor TM, we've discussed, but Taylor, the person, what do you think's next for her?

spk_0 You know, do you think it's going to be a summer wedding to Travis? Do you think that kids are

spk_0 going to be on the way? Do you think that there might be some hiccups? What does your gut tell you?

spk_0 Yeah. It's less of my gut. It's less of my gut. It's more of like his dad. I think it was his dad,

spk_0 Travis's dad, who was like, Taylor's really putting the pressure on to have kids. She's really

spk_0 wanting, like she really made that engagement forward. Like I saw this clip of him talking and

spk_0 then it was immediately scrubbed. I can't find it anywhere. So whether that's just the father

spk_0 and law being kooky and accurately describing things or not, it does seem like there. I think they're

spk_0 serious about wanting kids and buying the house in Ohio, I guess is where they were looking for houses.

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spk_0 My God and this is goes off of nothing okay but just vibes okay this is just my opinion and

spk_0 whatever okay I'm just gonna say it I think they're gonna get married this summer. I think they're

spk_0 after and then I think a year or two they're gonna get divorced and it's not you know it's also just

spk_0 two people who have been together they've been together at a pretty short time to get engaged in my

spk_0 opinion. I'd like to go yeah a little bit longer get to know someone. I think it's a short time

spk_0 considering what their lives have been like like she was on the air as tour for almost all of it. They're

spk_0 jetting back and forth. This idea of being with someone day in and day out and having a family and

spk_0 raising a kid like I feel like for a lot of celebrities the relationship the first year or two is

spk_0 just kind of honeymoon stage because you're traveling all over the world you're meeting friends it's

spk_0 high it's lows and then I think we're also gonna be moving into a world where Travis is retired soon

spk_0 and I'm sure it's so easy to date Taylor Swift when you're on top and football and she's on top

spk_0 in music but then when you have your status kind of removed from you how is a guy like Travis

spk_0 gonna take and react to that especially if his movie career doesn't pop off so I would be curious

spk_0 to see what happens. Yeah I just can't picture the kids like I can't imagine it actually happening

spk_0 because of I mean whatever people can know their kids not know their kids like I don't know what kind

spk_0 of relationship they would have but it's like going back to father figure she's kind of talks about

spk_0 herself as like I mean bad daddy I have like like I'll take you under my wing but if you

spk_0 fuck with me I will fucking destroy you and I am not a maternal person like I am a mafia boss

spk_0 actually and I'm trying to square that with the like I want a basketball hoop at the end of my

spk_0 driveway and a bunch of white babies that play football I'm trying to make it all make sense in my

spk_0 head and I'm just I can't I can't see it so I'm really interested to see if she follows through

spk_0 with her her PR plan that she's been laying out to us about like she's saying oh yeah we're gonna

spk_0 get married and I'm gonna invite everyone I've ever met even once why did she say that yeah the

spk_0 people at the radio show or whatever where she was like oh you could come to the wedding and they

spk_0 were like what we're invited so I'm guessing it's gonna be a big wedding we also do know from her

spk_0 past history of songs I remember when love her came out I was like surely her and Joe are about

spk_0 to get married she's singing about paper rings and it's basically wedding vows and lover and then

spk_0 that ended up not happening so just because something a song about doesn't mean that it will happen

spk_0 although we do have a hard rock one could say maybe even two in the picture now so many that makes

spk_0 things a bit different I get my last question to you guys is um what would be your advice you know

spk_0 we we all pay attention to Taylor Swift because we love so much of what she has done for years I've

spk_0 been obsessed with her as a person has it faded in the last four years yes absolutely um but what

spk_0 would be your honest to God like heartfelt advice let's say she's your friend and you want the best

spk_0 for her what would you say she could do to turn things around therapy yeah yeah I I was gonna say

spk_0 I would say DBT I was gonna say EMTR but all of it I was I was gonna say a psychedelic core like

spk_0 catamine therapy super we all went to like please go and work on yourself yeah well she's

spk_0 such he never has been to a therapist and she just talks to her mom she said she feels extremely

spk_0 sane it's like girl oh everyone can see that you have some kind of personality disorder you need

spk_0 to seek help but everyone benefits from therapy every single person in the world and you got the

spk_0 money and time I would say carve out that time for yeah connecting with yourself take time off of

spk_0 music the artist that I really like that haven't been turning out music it just makes me more excited

spk_0 for what they're gonna come out with so excited for Olivia's album yes yes yeah chapel

spk_0 rone's taking your time like she's not seizing on like her newfound fame so I'm with you I would

spk_0 say therapy and this is gonna be a little bit of a hot take but in re-listening to folklore and

spk_0 evermore and I remember back in the day Leslie stall from 16 minutes went this was when Taylor

spk_0 was doing her speak now tour and she saw her on tour and she said that her favorite part of the

spk_0 tour was and Taylor was doing acoustic at the little like white tree in the backstage the B stage

spk_0 or whatever and she was like that was my favorite part of the tour even though Taylor is the number

spk_0 one pop star I actually think pop might not be her genre she started in country she's tried

spk_0 on a bunch of different genres I don't think that it's pop for her because I think you need to have

spk_0 zest and humor and levity and happiness and um the lyrics don't have to matter for pop Sabrina

spk_0 showed us that with that me espresso you know or moon beam ice cream you know like it really doesn't

spk_0 have to make sense even with the Beatles I'm the wall wrist cuckoo cachu cachu it's not so it's not

spk_0 just the lyrics even though they're bad but I think that Taylor when it's her and her guitar

spk_0 I think that's her at her best so I would say maybe she's not supposed to be a pop girl I think

spk_0 that she's still supposed to be great at what she does but I would tell her therapy a year off

spk_0 and don't you do anything no merch no nothing a full year off and then I would just put some sort

spk_0 of creative stipulations on her where it's like all right try to make an album but you have to use

spk_0 the cowbell in every song or try to make an album but it's only piano and guitar try to make an

spk_0 album but it has to be in this quarter beat so that way she kind of gets to experiment with more

spk_0 things and I would say pop might not be the thing for her case in an point her dancing all right to

spk_0 be a pop girl you got to dance like you fuck so I would say she should do something acoustic in the

spk_0 future yeah like her and her guitar or her and her piano I think her voice is really suited to

spk_0 that mid tempo ballad I think that's where she also like champion problems like that's where she

spk_0 really shines is just some simple simple piano or simple just her and her guitar having a moment

spk_0 I also want to just add like maybe switching up some of the members of her team I know people

spk_0 are speculating whether she's just surrounded by yes people if that's how she got to this point

spk_0 oh my god I had I had the craziest psychic hit the other day it this came to me as I was

spk_0 channeling Taylor I was like tree pain is so fucking sick of her ass I just had this sense that

spk_0 tree pain hates Taylor Swift oh no I could totally see that and as Brian Lysha Sarking would say so

spk_0 does her injector you know I mean now we're getting a little bit nasty with it but like good god

spk_0 somebody needs to be there to say no to things yeah the the cheeks the cheeks are

spk_0 which also say talking about how like everybody wants that fat ass with a baby face and it's like

spk_0 like that's not for 10 that you haven't gotten worked on we've all gotten worked on I've gotten

spk_0 worked on she's gotten worked on you know come on now come on yeah and that okay that's what I

spk_0 was thinking before but I'm like okay I'm trying to keep it above work like yeah like it's okay

spk_0 to have had worked on like even the Kardashians are now starting to like detail what they've had

spk_0 done and that's becoming more commonplace it's okay it's okay we we have eyes yeah and we

spk_0 we didn't mention life of a showgirl this long was Sabrina but it's at least it's on fucking theme

spk_0 and it's kind of more of what I was expecting like I I wanted her to talk about the ways she has

spk_0 changed herself to to be a showgirl to be in the public eye the like things she does the things

spk_0 she sacrifices the the crying behind the makeup whatever like you are a celebrity you're an

spk_0 entertainer you don't have to lie and pretend that you're not like we all see those big titties Mama

spk_0 like we know that like you're getting stuff done and you're in the image that you have feel you

spk_0 have to be in your Hollywood so why lie and yeah it would be relatable because even I can do it

spk_0 with a broken heart we've never gotten broken up with and then had to perform on the air store but

spk_0 I've had breakups where then you have to go into the office and do a presentation or something

spk_0 really horrible happened but it's your friend's birthday and you don't want to sour the mood like

spk_0 these are a lot of themes that can be applicable to the every person if they're sung about honestly

spk_0 and from the heart yeah like anti hero it's all about her fame being too big but it's like we

spk_0 can all relate to like I'm the problem yeah I don't I don't you know I'll stare into the sun

spk_0 but not the mirror sometimes like that's everyone falls prey to that so yeah there is something like

spk_0 when she's really tapped into something real that it becomes more universal and then seems like

spk_0 when there's this bravado or some kind of air of I don't know what she's trying to construct that's

spk_0 when it alienates people yeah Sammy any last thoughts other than therapy for advice that you would

spk_0 give to your good friend Taylor no I think we nailed it just like just turn inward like surround yourself

spk_0 with people who really love you and just try to like be a human being for a little bit and not

spk_0 a celebrity yeah I will say the last thing that I thought is if Kim Kardashian she could break

spk_0 the internet again if she just posted actually romantic on her Instagram story and then after

spk_0 did like a thank you Amy blah blah blah blah blah all of the different songs you know just post

spk_0 actually romantic and then the next slide is like the 10 songs that Taylor Swift has referenced her

spk_0 and that would be amazing she probably won't do it but I thought that would be great

spk_0 well I'm like the opposite direction when Haley and Selena did that little photo shoot together

spk_0 where they're like intertwined their bodies together almost I'm guessing yeah I'm sure Kim would be

spk_0 up for it oh Kim's down but like did you guys see Charlie X-X is in the booth she posted a video

spk_0 she she posted a teaser she's gonna come back at her via song and she's in there right now

spk_0 recording so like I think like Taylor was looking for a fight with this album and yes Kim has been

spk_0 ignoring her many many many attempts to like get a few going Charlie's not going to I want Olivia

spk_0 to get the kind of redemption that Jack Antonoff has gotten like clear her name she's been dragged

spk_0 through the mud tormented by this former mentor of hers and what I want to see the Jackson 5 sue

spk_0 her for the baseline like I want to see people come after her for how like much of a copycat

spk_0 this album is yeah and I feel I'm sorry I feel like we keep adding like one more last thing

spk_0 oh yeah but but Olivia Rodrigo is currently 22 years old and you know Taylor talked about

spk_0 well alluded in songs to her wronging her whenever whatever Olivia did that was when she was a

spk_0 teenager it still remains that they stopped talking when she was about 19 20 at most I think even

spk_0 earlier than that so yeah maybe let that go or maybe yeah Olivia could jump in the booth I

spk_0 saw tweets saying this is about to be not like us for white girls way that my or ring is probably

spk_0 going off the charts because anytime so many mentions Olivia Rodrigo and Taylor Swift I feel it

spk_0 pumping in my blood I think it's the most unfair thing that's ever happened I'll be talking about

spk_0 it until I am put in the grave my mouth will still be talking about how much of a raw deal it was

spk_0 for Olivia and one of that just one more thing all of us to be the diverse again and why can't we

spk_0 can't stop talking about her in the father figure song which some people say you know it could be about

spk_0 scopp or shatter I think it's kind of her to the different Tay daughters and like Gracie and Sabrina

spk_0 and Olivia like stick with me kids and you'll never go hungry again unless I unless you fuck with me

spk_0 I find it interesting how she has the line of your thoughtless ambition led to misguided decisions

spk_0 that then the blah blah blah and you know my psychiatrist has been requesting that I learn more

spk_0 about OCD so I have an in this one journey it's like if you're a really anxious person maybe a

spk_0 little neurodivergent you might think should all the time like they should do this or they did

spk_0 it that way but I would have done it this way you almost have these made up rules for how people

spk_0 should act and you get pissed off when they don't do it and in that line it's like your thoughtless

spk_0 ambition led to misguided decisions what somebody did was thoughtless they didn't think about it and

spk_0 yet Taylor goes you did this on purpose to hurt me so now I have to kill you and I feel like that's

spk_0 the way that she operates like yeah Olivia wanted to put out a good album somebody wants to do

spk_0 things really well that has nothing to do with you Taylor like people were thinking about how um

spk_0 Jack Antonoff and Taylor might be beefing because he said that Sabrina Carpenter is the future

spk_0 and it's like we need to be able to live in a world where we're not worried about hypothetically

spk_0 stepping on the eggshells of Taylor's feelings because if somebody has a song that goes number one

spk_0 that might hurt Taylor's feelings like that is a deluded way to think and we we should not be

spk_0 aligning ourselves to live in Taylor Swift's world with her rules she needs to come down to the

spk_0 normal world where younger pop stars eventually overtake older ones and that's a fact and that's

spk_0 okay and sometimes you're on top and sometimes you're on the bottom and that's a fact and it's okay

spk_0 and I think the Swifties one of the reasons they pissed me off is that they instead want to live in

spk_0 like her world with her rules and they just don't make sense and it isn't something that I think we

spk_0 should be encouraging because there's a lot of distortions in the way that she thinks yeah I want

spk_0 her to go back to when she wrote the nothing new remix with Phoebe Bridgers and so great tap

spk_0 tap more into that because I'm sure it's really hard to be an aging pop star anyone can make

spk_0 pop music at any age but it really is a game for the young and yeah she's 35 and she does get a lot

spk_0 of shit put on her that she doesn't deserve like sexist narratives and things like that you can

spk_0 talk about it without becoming a permanent victim the biggest victim in the world when you're

spk_0 actually on top of the world or like her going to football games and ever and bullying just because

spk_0 somebody's deciding to show her face you know like there's a lot of ways in which she's been

spk_0 the victim you know in certain scenarios although I actually like when somebody's a billionaire you

spk_0 can't really ever refer to them as a victim you know but that being said I also think this would be

spk_0 a great time for her to go into more folk and indie because then it's like oh it's not that a

spk_0 pop star overtook me it's that I transitioned genres I think it would be great yeah yeah

spk_0 yes better for her as an adult to to just stick with her roots in Fokie country I agree with you

spk_0 I'm pretty sure this album rollout has caused the streams of folklore and evermore to shoot up

spk_0 I think I've seen a lot of people I it made me go back and relisten I know brat is is um trending

spk_0 again it's like in the top 20 like once again like sympathies and I've and folklore and evermore so

spk_0 people are still listening why did she say this album is going to be like folklore now why should

spk_0 you say that when did she say that shoot in the whole promo for this album she said Max Martin said

spk_0 we have to bring the lyricism of folklore to the beats of reputation and neither were seen

spk_0 in the final version so I don't know all three have like gone out to hone their craft and come back

spk_0 at their absolute peak and she said this is the best music we've ever made she said all kinds

spk_0 of crazy stuff if you go back and listen to the it podcast on new heights or whatever like crazy

spk_0 so zander has been making sourdough and sometimes if you put like too much water in it and

spk_0 and stuff like mold can grow perhaps there's been like mold in all these sourdough moves and it's

spk_0 just kind of like infecting the brain of her and then everyone should give sourdough to which is

spk_0 her team and everyone around her so maybe this is like a mold album.

spk_0 It's a collective mold outbreak. It might be as Brian Lysha said the first case of CTE by proxy

spk_0 we don't know what's going on. There's something that went on I don't know she needs to go back to

spk_0 that exact cap cabin like where she was living when she wrote folklore nevermore whatever whatever it is

spk_0 she can explore different options and see what produces something. Yeah yeah I would say the cabin

spk_0 over the you know McManchin on a cold assack somewhere in Ohio I don't know if that will be where

spk_0 she kind of reclaims her artistry but who knows anything could happen any final thoughts before

spk_0 we log off here once again I can't oh well I know a final thought that I want to talk about

spk_0 this isn't related to Taylor Swift but you guys have started your new podcast final girls club I

spk_0 am three fourths of the way through the first episode all about what is it called hagg's

spk_0 exploitation yeah unbelievable you guys have this great new podcast which by the way the branding

spk_0 looks incredible and I just like love how smart and well-rounded you guys are in pop culture so you

spk_0 guys were talking about witches and haggs and the hagg throughout media and all of these different

spk_0 forms of it I've never thought about hagg's so much except when Aubrey Plaza her Twitter name I

spk_0 think was like evil hagg for a long time but talking about how like women are portrayed like

spk_0 they're the only ones who their ugly old face can be like a shocking reveal that twists the

spk_0 audience or the way that they're always eating children or how there's no male version of the hagg

spk_0 even though I think Sammy you said quote pick up a newspaper there are you know bad fathers out

spk_0 there but it's really only represented in this hagg trope really cool stuff can you tell everyone

spk_0 about the podcast and like what's next for it do you want to take this okay I will um I thank you

spk_0 so much for your kind words we're really excited about it um we are basically putting together a

spk_0 podcast um the first two episodes just came out the next one all about fairy tales um haggs in fairy

spk_0 tales will be out I think by the time this episode comes out yeah it's all about exploring tropes

spk_0 that have been imposed on women um throughout time throughout a lot of horror movies but a lot of

spk_0 myths around the world um fairy tales all kinds of things and we're going month to month so

spk_0 october's hagg month all month long and the next month will be about family life being hell and the

spk_0 horrors that can be created from that but it's also about resilience and surviving and being the

spk_0 final girl the triumphant girl emerging from all the rubble um and all the horrors of both horror

spk_0 movies and daily life and submerging god yes i love that i just think everything that you guys say

spk_0 especially as a duo you're a great team and um horror is like so in vogue right now because it feels

spk_0 like horror is the only place where you can be creative in the movies otherwise it's a sequel it's

spk_0 a live action it's wicked it's wicked part two it's another thing and i feel like horror is really

spk_0 having a renaissance of like the best stories right now or horror which stinks for me because i'm

spk_0 an anxious person so i get scared but i love reading about it on wikipedia i'm

spk_0 incredibly anxious i don't know what this podcast is going to do to my psyche but i'm excited

spk_0 to see how it's going to unfold i feel like i feel like the world the world is kind of turning into

spk_0 a bit of a horror movie so there's a lot of inspiration all around us um but yeah it's like you

spk_0 made the horror movie and you're like yeah it's actually a little bit better in boba duke land than it

spk_0 is you know today yeah i would rather be dealing with the boba duke than trump for sure

spk_0 me too yeah here i come boba duke well and we'll say thank you so much for coming on and exploring

spk_0 all of these thoughts with Taylor Swift um once again as i always say for any of the swifties who

spk_0 did not like this episode my handle is at doom waw i live in new work if you want to come find and kill

spk_0 me there um thank you guys so much for coming on anchorage everyone to check out final girls club

spk_0 and as always patreon.com slash fluently forward is where we've got extra bonus episodes i think

spk_0 last week i did three episodes on there it was a very yap happy week so go and check that out

spk_0 if you want any more fluently forward and for everyone else we will see you next week for another

spk_0 episode bye guys

Bitchin' about The Life of a Showgirl feat. Final Girls Club

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