Beethoven's Symphony No. 3 "Eroica", Rejecting Napoleon and Charting a New Path!

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 I'm John Panther and this is Classical Breakdown.

spk_0 From WETA Classical in Washington we are your guide to classical music.

spk_0 In this episode I'm joined by WETA Classical's Evan Keely and we're exploring a symphony

spk_0 that marks a pivotal moment in music history, Beethoven's Symphony No. 3, Aurelica.

spk_0 And it came after a pivotal moment in his life too, so we show you how Beethoven went

spk_0 in a new direction, what sets this symphony apart, how the audience reacted, what to listen

spk_0 for, the famous dedication to Napoleon Bonaparte and more.

spk_0 Welcome back Evan, it's great to have you here for Season 7, another season of exploring

spk_0 this music, these composers and just, well, everything about this kind of music.

spk_0 Thanks John, always great to be on Classical Breakdown and congratulations to you, Season

spk_0 7.

spk_0 What?

spk_0 I mean, fantastic.

spk_0 It's hard to believe.

spk_0 Fantastic.

spk_0

spk_0 Good work.

spk_0 It's gone by in a flash.

spk_0 So let's start off with a review from Apple Podcasts.

spk_0 What do we have Evan?

spk_0 This is a five star review from Mike B, who says a must listen pod for any music fan.

spk_0 Simply the best podcast about classical music.

spk_0 The detail and explanations are simple and clear, even for a non-musical person like

spk_0 me.

spk_0 I love classical music and the insights and background have made me develop even greater

spk_0 affection for some of my favorite composers and pieces while introducing me to new composers

spk_0 and musicians.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 Mike B, thank you.

spk_0 I mean, this is great support and encouragement from one of our podcast listeners.

spk_0 Yes, thank you Mike and hopefully your description of our detail and explanations as simple and

spk_0 clear won't be doing too much heavy lifting in this episode because this is a big one.

spk_0 And this is Beethoven's symphony number three, which we know as aerobica and it has the

spk_0 subtitle symphony aerobica composta per festa gira il sovaneire du grande omo.

spk_0 If I can speak Italian at all, that's heroic symphony to celebrate the memory of a great

spk_0 man.

spk_0 And we'll get into that of course.

spk_0 But the more I look at his symphonies, Evan and maybe this is obvious, but it's hard

spk_0 to imagine that he could have done what he did with his fifth, sixth or ninth.

spk_0 If it wasn't for this one, he was already moving in a different direction with his

spk_0 first and second, but this one really broke them old in a way that had people loving it

spk_0 or hating it.

spk_0 And people have been trying to explain it for the last 200 years.

spk_0 And I hopefully maybe we'll get a little closer, but I'm not guaranteeing anything.

spk_0 And we could even say John that in many ways Beethoven is laying the groundwork for the

spk_0 Rezzymowski Strinquartettes and Fidelio and the Fifth piano concerto in this symphony,

spk_0 the third symphony really is a new direction for Beethoven in some very significant ways.

spk_0 It's also an immensely important symphony in the history of the symphony as a genre.

spk_0 Bear in mind, the symphony as we know it was at that point only a few decades old.

spk_0 And you and I discussed in the episode about Joseph Heiden, father of the symphony.

spk_0 The idea that a symphony could express something this vast was quite new.

spk_0 So the symphony as a form is still fairly new.

spk_0 And then the idea that the symphony is going to, you know, Gustav Moller many, many years later,

spk_0 we'll say the symphony should contain everything.

spk_0 I don't know if the heroic a symphony of Beethoven contains everything, but it sure contains

spk_0 a lot in a way that symphonies prior to that time simply had not done.

spk_0 And so this must have been terribly exciting and or utterly confusing for its first hearers.

spk_0 I like that. It would have been confusing or exciting or maybe even terrifying for some of those first listeners.

spk_0 And this is a symphony he wrote between 1802 to 1804 mainly between May, November of 1803.

spk_0 That's when he wrote most of it.

spk_0 And this is also a time where he had some of the most tumultuous times in his life.

spk_0 We talked about the High-Legan-Stought Testament and the life of Beethoven episode, you know,

spk_0 long story short if you aren't familiar.

spk_0 When he was realizing that his deafness was getting worse and it was going to become

spk_0 permanent when that finally set in, he kind of went into some despair and he wrote this

spk_0 Testament, basically a will that reads like someone who's really about to take their life and

spk_0 talks about how hard and terrible things are. But then from that, after that, he goes in a new

spk_0 direction as we'll see in your rights this symphony. I found some translated letters from around

spk_0 this time and we'll read one right now that kind of sets up, you know, maybe what he was experiencing.

spk_0 He writes to his one love interest, Josephine Brunswick, sometime before the 1805 premiere writing,

spk_0 well it is true that I have not been as diligent as I ought to have been but a private grief

spk_0 robbed me for a long time of my usual intense energy. And for some time after the feeling of love

spk_0 for you, my adored Josephine began to start within me. This grief increased even more. As soon as

spk_0 we are together again with no one to disturb us, you shall hear all about my real sorrows and the

spk_0 struggle with myself between death and life, a struggle in which I was engaged for some time.

spk_0 For a long period, a certain event made me despair of ever achieving any happiness during my life

spk_0 on this earth, but now things are no longer so bad. Quite a lot of sentiment and things I think we

spk_0 can see from this. Yeah, yeah. And this again, this is a few years after the Hollywood and

spk_0 Star Testament, which was 1802. He was 31 years old. At that point, as you said, John, he,

spk_0 yet that point was really having to confront this reality of deathness, increasing deathness.

spk_0 It was not going to get better. It was not going to go away. And this real despair, this even perhaps,

spk_0 like you said, he was thinking perhaps of taking his own life or just giving up on life. And

spk_0 this letter to Josephine, a few years later, he seems to be trying to articulate that he's

spk_0 come out of that to some extent and that he's being able to regain his footing on this human

spk_0 journey and that he's finding a new energy and a new vitality. And, boy, we sure hear that in

spk_0 the third symphony. And it's also one with a famous dedication, at least at first. It was

spk_0 Napoleon Bonaparte, he even was calling the symphony Bonaparte, even in a letter to one of his

spk_0 publishers. And of course, he famously took away this dedication and we'll get into that in a

spk_0 little bit. But let's jump right into the first movement where he breaks the mold right from

spk_0 the beginning with its nearly non-existent introduction.

spk_0 That is such a treacherous opening, Evan. There's a lot of recordings that don't sound that together.

spk_0 I think part of the problem is these opening chords aren't always conducted in time. It looks

spk_0 very nice for a conductor to do that. But then when the viola and second violin come in right

spk_0 after, they have to be exactly in time. And if it's not 100% clear or an orchestra with a ton of

spk_0 experience, you know, it might not work out so well. Actually, here's an example of kind of how

spk_0 it goes sometimes. So I won't name the conductor in that recording, but it shows that it can be a

spk_0 pretty difficult thing to keep together. It's difficult writing. The first violins have a quadruple

spk_0 stop. They have four pitches they have to play. Second violins have a triple stop, and the violas

spk_0 have a double stop. So if you know about stringed instruments, you can't play four pitches on a violin

spk_0 all at the same time. You have to kind of roll the bow over the bridge of the strings. So there's

spk_0 a kind of thing like a grace note pick up, delium, delium. And it's really easy for that to go

spk_0 awry. I do wonder how difficult this was for the first orchestra ever to play this and how a

spk_0 custom they were to this kind of writing. I don't actually know the answer to that question,

spk_0 but I can easily imagine the very first performance of the Eroka Symphony. Those very first chords

spk_0 might have been blomp, blomp, blomp, but we don't know. And you know, talking about the introduction

spk_0 being, well, you said almost nonexistent. I mean, it is two chords, two measures. And the idea

spk_0 that a symphony should even have an introduction is a concept even younger than the symphony itself

spk_0 at this point, 1804, 1805. The symphony is having this long slow introduction with a fairly

spk_0 new-ish kind of concept. Most of the Haydn and Mozart symphonies don't have a slow introduction,

spk_0 although broadly speaking, later they are the more likely they are to have a slow intro. Beethoven's

spk_0 first two symphonies have a slow introduction in their first movements. And then of course,

spk_0 you get to like the fifth symphony, for example, gets right into it. The sixth symphony, no slow

spk_0 introduction there. The eighth symphony doesn't have one. So Beethoven goes back and forth. And this

spk_0 two chords, is it a very short intro? Is it no intro at all? Is it just, it's hard even to articulate

spk_0 what exactly he's doing here? It sure gets our attention, though. It gets your attention, and

spk_0 there's so much happening. We spent a couple of minutes talking about two measures.

spk_0 And then right after that, it's right into the exposition with this main theme, which is really

spk_0 just an E-flat major arpeggio, the same chord that we just heard. But then within a couple of bars,

spk_0 they land on a C sharp. And at that moment, the first violin comes in on the offbeat. And this is

spk_0 where it also gets kind of harder rhythmically because some are playing staccato, the second violin

spk_0 and viola. And then these first violins are playing much more broad on the offbeat. And so that's

spk_0 a tritone itself, but it doesn't quite sound super dissonant. And then we get these moments that

spk_0 build up a motif that is just kind of repeated, but not really a full-fledged melody.

spk_0 And it's just one minute. One minute, all this stuff is happening. I don't know. I was thinking

spk_0 about this yesterday. Do you remember Kid Cousine? It's the microwave dinner, and I love I lived for

spk_0 Kid Cousine. You got the mac and cheese and it's compartment, the brownie, it's compartment, the

spk_0 the corn. You know, I feel like beforehand, before this symphony, the exposition was kind of like

spk_0 Kid Cousine. You had everything nice and segmented and prepared and everything, but now he's giving

spk_0 you a chige or a stew or something. So I'll dump it on the plate. Yeah, there's like, what's this?

spk_0 Wait, where's my food? What do I do? What do I do? Yes. And so things happen and go before you can

spk_0 even really come to a conclusion as to what even was meant to happen.

spk_0 And yet it's also delicious. You take a taste and you're like, wow, I want more of this.

spk_0 And that's C sharp, you know? dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

spk_0 Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Hang on. What, what C sharp? How do we get here? I think a good composer

spk_0 would have written a C natural. And that would sound good. Right? Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

spk_0 Yeah, all right. That's very noble heroic right to heroic symphony. Okay a good composer would would have written that when we would have said

spk_0 Oh, this is a good piece

spk_0 Yeah, and we wouldn't be talking about it 200 years later. Yeah, let's see sharp

spk_0 It sets us up this weird sort of this diminished chord and then we have this six four chord and then we're back to E flat again

spk_0 Yeah, and what what just happened what what is this? This is something very different from anything anyone was used to in that era

spk_0 Even today it's still striking. It's still surprising and the moment it has happened

spk_0 We're surprised by it and yet it also seems like it's the only thing that could have happened

spk_0 Yes, that's exactly it's like yeah, this is the only way we could have gone. Yeah

spk_0 Where how do we get here? But of course we're of course we're here and that's that's so that's so Beethoven and at one C sharp

spk_0 might be more illustrative of that Beethovenian principle of surprise and

spk_0 expectation than any other single moment and

spk_0 And you know Beethoven just immediately creates this tension

spk_0 Something that Beethoven loves to do of course is played with the rhythm. He's a very rhythmic

spk_0 composer and how he presents and even develops things and this first movement

spk_0 It's in three four which isn't the most common time signature for an opening movement. Okay, maybe shubert

spk_0 You know did but not the most common thing

spk_0 So when you have something like a quarter note and then a quarter note rests a quarter note and a quarter note rest you keep doing that

spk_0 You kind of get off so to speak because you're paying on you're playing on beat one

spk_0 Rest on to play on three then you rest on one play on two rest on three and then play on one and you kind of repeat that

spk_0 So you lose the idea for the audience as to where the downbeat of a measure exactly is and

spk_0 And in music that's in three four hundred of years at this point

spk_0 We've had the phenomenon known as a hemiola, which is when the beat becomes twice as big

spk_0 So you're going one two three one two three one two and three you hear this a lot in Baroque music

spk_0 It's it's you know even going back to the Renaissance and so forth

spk_0 So Beethoven uses hemiolas a lot, but what he does is he syncopates them

spk_0 So you go into a hemiola you're not even sure where the hemiola starts

spk_0 You're not sure where the heck the beat is and then you go back and all of a sudden you're back

spk_0 And you know exactly where the beat is and you just say to yourself what just happened here

spk_0 Yeah, and you have us a lot in Beethoven

spk_0 You certainly have this a lot in the beginning of this

spk_0 Movement of this third symphony

spk_0 Something that a lot of symphonies did before this was repeat the exposition repeat this opening section that presents our

spk_0 themes for us that will then be developed through out

spk_0 This particular recording with George Sel conducting the Cleveland Orchestra, which is fantastic. It doesn't repeat the

spk_0 Exposition this is a symphony feels like a break the mold

spk_0 So in one sense in this type of recording we get to the end of the exposition

spk_0 It feels like you know what we can go on let's develop this

spk_0 But when you hear recordings that are more period performance practice, you know closer to a classical time

spk_0 They often repeat the exposition and in that instance. I think it makes perfect sense

spk_0 So it's kind of maybe I'm standing on both sides of the road on that one

spk_0 But I find it totally fine when it doesn't repeat when it does repeat

spk_0 It's pretty obvious because you are right back at that opening theme minus those two big chords and it's quite

spk_0 recognizable

spk_0 An instrument that will stand out to you as you're listening in this entire work really is is the oboe

spk_0 It's a they are a big part of this it feels like they're not necessarily a conductor on stage

spk_0 But some type of authority figure that is guiding us through transitions presenting new ideas closing things out

spk_0 The oboe was often right nearby to well guide us along

spk_0 Beethoven really has a concept of writing for wins in general and you really hear this in the third symphony

spk_0 But in a lot of other works of his two certainly in the ninth symphony the mesosolemnus

spk_0 But even in the early symphonies, you know that one of the critiques of the first symphony was it sounded like a military

spk_0 Band there was there was the the prominence of the wins

spk_0 They're not just doubling the strings which was much more of the style of orchestration before Beethoven

spk_0 And Beethoven really gives the wins a whole different presence and that's very conspicuous in the third symphony

spk_0 Not to say our hero was going through trials and

spk_0 Tribulations, but it really does feel like there's a moment we are in a storm on a boat and

spk_0 It's another moment where Beethoven does what Beethoven does is where you have these chaotic lines and whatever that's happening

spk_0 Listen for something longer and something more stretched out that's happening elsewhere to often at the exact same time

spk_0 And here it's also playing with the theme we heard before as we're developing it now in the development section where it feels like we're no longer on the same path

spk_0 but we're

spk_0 Making our own path. We're taking this through new tonalities, timbers and so forth

spk_0 And that's also a very Beethovenian thing taking a very simple musical idea and stretching it way beyond the boundaries of

spk_0 What any normal mortal might have thought possible so as we were saying the

spk_0 Exposition begins with a

spk_0 arpeggio spelled out tonic chord

spk_0 D-da-deed

spk_0 one three one five very very simple

spk_0 You know the rhythm is simple the melody is simple and this is the basis for the movement

spk_0 This is the first theme of the exposition of this sonata form movement

spk_0 What could be simpler Beethoven does this a lot think about the ninth symphony owed to joy very simple like a folk melody

spk_0 You know quarter notes the rhythm is really simple. It's stepwise motion

spk_0 It's just very very simple and then we go on this cosmic journey with this very simple tune and Beethoven is doing that right here in the

spk_0 Eroica symphony especially in this development section where this

spk_0 Try this triad is very simple little tune becomes this whole other thing and like you said we're at one minute

spk_0 We're having this very heroic experience of the beginning and now we're in this stormy section

spk_0 We don't know where the beat is necessarily. There's the tonality keeps shifting around

spk_0 Even the the the the chord the pitches in the triad get kind of morphed into this

spk_0 Maybe it's diminishing one place or it's so Beethoven really has this extraordinary capacity to imagine different possibilities with very simple material

spk_0 The Diabelli variations is perhaps one of the most striking examples of that in Beethoven

spk_0 So far I think for people listening in the audience for the first time it's all

spk_0 It's a bit new and it's a bit different. There's definitely a lot definitely a lot going on

spk_0 But when we get to this section where it sounds like there's just stab after stab from the orchestra and then with this piercing trumpet coming in as well

spk_0 I wonder how many people

spk_0 heard or expected something like this and in orchestra talking about talk about a terrifying sound

spk_0 Which they may have not really ever heard in their day-to-day life. Yeah

spk_0 And this is followed by something interesting that appears again and again in the symphony where we get this sudden

spk_0 punctuated heavy sound. It's in the low strings and it fades away and suddenly the oboe was back in

spk_0 There's a bunch of moments here where he will

spk_0 Do something very sudden or subito as we say in music and it's often with a dynamic and an instrument that's not related to what follows next

spk_0 Like here the sudden loudness of the low strings and then it just jumps right into the oboe

spk_0 And an obvious question might be

spk_0 Well, what's happening here are these different trials or battles or something that the that the hero is

spk_0 That the hero is facing. I think that is an obvious ex that's an obvious

spk_0 Expectation from the title, but it's not exactly what we're always going to get and we get into this deeper question about what this symphony means

spk_0 It starts off as a bonapart symphony. It tribute to Napoleon

spk_0 He becomes the solution with Napoleon. We'll talk more about that later

spk_0 It's a heroic symphony. What's heroic about it? Well, one of the things maybe that's heroic about it is these sense the sense of struggle that we're

spk_0 articulating as we look at this development section in this first movement

spk_0 But this question of you know who will who's the hero?

spk_0 If it if Napoleon isn't the hero is Beethoven the hero are we the hero is it is it all of humanity?

spk_0 You know, maybe that's the question that sums up the whole experience of Beethoven

spk_0 One of the reasons this particular work holds such enduring fascination it states more explicitly what Beethoven says in so much of his work existence

spk_0 As a heroic struggle. Yeah, that's like a theme that we find in Beethoven's music one of the reasons Beethoven is so

spk_0 Rightly so for you know all over the world for generations. There's this sense of

spk_0 Struggle and how that struggle is a noble and a nobling struggle

spk_0 And Beethoven is as you said Evan. He's doing things and are pretty

spk_0 Not standard way, but a way people would recognize

spk_0 You know, you've got an exposition a development

spk_0 And then we have a recapitulation where we get back to those original themes in the original key after we've played with him in the

spk_0 In the development section, but we get back into it in such a weird way because this horn comes in and it sounds nice and pastoral

spk_0 But it's for like two seconds barely two measures and then it's interrupted loudly by the orchestra again something coming in suddenly

spk_0 loudly and then it's not really related to what happens next

spk_0 They die down that theme is brought back in and the horn comes back later with the theme is that a transformation?

spk_0 It is such an unusual way, I think yeah to get back into the recap that way

spk_0 But the horn just almost making it sounds like a mistake. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oops coming into early

spk_0 No, this is in fact

spk_0 What we're doing and it's this you know, there's just sense like that's gonna continue and then it just stops and this is first from the whole orchestra

spk_0 Which again surprising and then and yet what else could have happened and then we naturally get to what is a

spk_0 Coda section which is the part of a movement where you expect we're wrapping it up you can really hear it

spk_0 We are headed home and it sounds like that for a moment, but then Beethoven

spk_0 Doesn't resolve it. He's reluctant. He starts going off in different keys. He starts developing it more and that would have been

spk_0 To critics who know the the the forms and everything that would have been something that some of them probably did not like right away

spk_0 You know, what are you doing right now? This is this is a mess

spk_0 Yeah, Coda is typically supposed to be a recapitulation of things that are familiar and with a sense of resolve

spk_0 resolving things and

spk_0 This Coda does achieve that but boy it really takes a roundabout path to get there in a way that's so much more interesting

spk_0 and

spk_0 It does wrap up in a rather

spk_0 heroic way and a way that you might expect for

spk_0 Well, this type of movement to end and it ends on a great big of course some E flat similar to what we heard in the beginning

spk_0 now

spk_0 Evan something I always used to mention when I was on air

spk_0 um

spk_0 Every night was whenever we played this symphony

spk_0 I would tell people go to YouTube and find this video because one I can't believe this is 12 years old now

spk_0 But someone made a video back in the day of just the opening chords of this symphony and they take different recordings

spk_0 chronologically starting in 1924 the quality isn't great

spk_0 But you can hear the differences and also the pitch changes especially before world war two

spk_0 Where it's really kind of going all over the place. It's a fascinating video. Yes

spk_0 But let's go to the dedication because this is where things

spk_0 I think really get kind of um

spk_0 Interesting or legendary. It's a part of the reason. I think the symphony has survived as it has with this whole Napoleon aspect of it

spk_0 He dedicated it to Napoleon Bonaparte was at an admirer of him

spk_0 He saw I guess himself in him as well

spk_0 but then

spk_0 Napoleon crowns himself

spk_0 declares himself emperor of uh

spk_0 France and

spk_0 Beethoven hears about this supposedly from his secretary and student Ferdinand Reese and Reese wrote in writing this symphony

spk_0 Beethoven had been thinking of Bonaparte but Bonaparte while he was first counsel at that time

spk_0 Beethoven had the highest esteem for him and compared them to the greatest councils of ancient Rome

spk_0 Not only I but many of Beethoven's closer friends saw this symphony on his table beautifully copied and manuscript with the word

spk_0 Bonaparte inscribed at the very top of the title page and Lufig von Beethoven at the very bottom

spk_0 I was the first to sell him the news that Bonaparte had declared himself emperor

spk_0 Whereupon he broke into a rage and exclaimed so he is no more than a common mortal now too

spk_0 He will tread underfoot all the rights of man indulge only his ambition now he will think himself superior to all men become a tyrant

spk_0 Beethoven went to the table sees the top of the title page toward and half and threw it on the floor

spk_0 The page had to be recopied and it was only now that the symphony received the title

spk_0 symphonia eroica

spk_0 That's quite a tale Evan. Yes, quite a story

spk_0 He did an on Reese. Yeah, interesting. A lot we could say about Ferdinand Reese

spk_0 I think yes in the limited time we have

spk_0 I just recognize that his his accounts of Beethoven which are numerous. Yeah, are

spk_0 There's reason to have some doubts

spk_0 He often of course exaggerated things he told stories of things in which he wasn't even present

spk_0 And of course the sentence will raise an eyeball where Reese says Beethoven had his beautifully copied manuscript

spk_0 Well, that's wrong Beethoven never had a beautiful copy manuscript

spk_0 But it is true

spk_0 It was dedicated to Napoleon and then he took that away at some point

spk_0 The 250th anniversary of Beethoven's birth was five years ago and here at W. W. T. A. Classical

spk_0 We had all these wonderful features from our colleague James Jacobs

spk_0 Yeah, and in one of them he commented about Ferdinand Reese and he said in terms of trying to understand these comments that Reese makes about Beethoven

spk_0 We're dealing with a problematic person commenting about another problematic person

spk_0 Yeah, when James said that I really kind of you know, that's that's an interesting and I think very insightful way to look at these two

spk_0 individuals who are both fascinating in their own way and certainly contributed wonderful things

spk_0 But they're both there's ego and there's uh, you know

spk_0 There's all kinds of complicated things going on

spk_0 But there's a lot going on in the world when Beethoven is writing this symphony and you think about Beethoven's lifespan

spk_0 He was born in 1770 he died in 17

spk_0 1827 so that's a snapshot of the incredible

spk_0 complexities and uncertainties in Western Europe and

spk_0 immense changes that were occurring during that time in other parts of Europe and even of course here in the Americas

spk_0 uh, questions about

spk_0 freedom and democracy the role of the individual questions about war and peace and about nationhood and law and

spk_0 all of these things had a special intensity during the course of Beethoven's lifetime and the music of Beethoven

spk_0 Maybe more than any of the composer is associated with these transformations these ongoing questions about human life

spk_0 Beethoven's entire body of work

spk_0 really reflects that that uncertainty and that struggle and that that that yearning for greater freedom and greater dignity for the human

spk_0 individual and for human societies and

spk_0 There's hardly any other work of Beethoven we can think of that does so more explicitly

spk_0 than the heroic symphony and Napoleon being associated with the pieces only one aspect of this

spk_0 It's only one aspect and clearly Beethoven didn't like this fact

spk_0 Of what Napoleon was doing in the end and scratch his name out so hard so that you can see you know

spk_0 The paper has been torn through one way or another yeah on its removal and we'll put a picture

spk_0 up of that as well

spk_0 But he also referred this to us the Bonaparte symphony after this event months later and a letter to a publisher bright cough saying it's called the Bonaparte symphony

spk_0 so there's

spk_0 He took the dedication away, but

spk_0 I think there's not enough evidence to really read into exactly what happened when he was told or the timing of him really deciding to not call it Bonaparte anymore

spk_0 But either way he took it away

spk_0 And there's a funny letter. I'll read it the very end. It's not related to this at all

spk_0 But it's a letter between Beethoven and Reese that I think is quite humorous

spk_0 But let's jump into the second movement now the funeral march as it's titled

spk_0 This is the one that for me I think truly breaks expectations in terms of what you said before Evan as to

spk_0 People hadn't heard a symphony that could express something this vast

spk_0 And this large or this you know maybe deep

spk_0 Yeah plenty of music written before this expresses deep emotion, but something about

spk_0 Where this symphony takes us is

spk_0 Really I can't think of a precedent for it

spk_0 And

spk_0 And it starts with the

spk_0 Classic death rhythm as we know it is um

spk_0 But we're also maybe wondering

spk_0 What is this funeral for who is this funeral for we just went on this journey that sounded like we ended with great confidence

spk_0 Now if you know if you know a lot what what the heck is this?

spk_0 Well, you mentioned you know the death rhythm as you as you called it dotted rhythms dumb

spk_0 Dumb

spk_0 Dumb dumb dotted rhythms in western European music since at least the days of

spk_0 Jean-Baptiste de Lille in the latter half of the 17th century maybe going back even further

spk_0 Dotted rhythms represent dignity and solemnity and seriousness and

spk_0 Some how they do I don't know why I hear a Lully over churra

spk_0 I think oh the grandeur of

spk_0 Lully the 14th or whatever and somehow they do convey that a good composer

spk_0 Would have written this funeral march with even rhythms

spk_0 Dumb dumb

spk_0 Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

spk_0 That would be a good piece right? Yeah, it would be serious and mournful and we'd all feel we take off our hats

spk_0 Or we'd put our hands on our hearts and that'd be a good music Beethoven is a great composer

spk_0 And so he makes the puts in these dotted rhythms that give it this

spk_0 not only solemnity and dignity, but there's also that almost like a sob.

spk_0 You know, that Scottish snap,

spk_0 dotum, dotum, dotum.

spk_0 That sense of like a stab of pain.

spk_0 And it infuses so much sorrow and such a profound feeling of loss.

spk_0 In the very first, the first measure of this strange movement,

spk_0 from the very moment we started again,

spk_0 we ended with this heroic E-flat major,

spk_0 this thunderous chord at the end of the first movement,

spk_0 and everything is victory and glory,

spk_0 and now we're grieving, now we're sobbing with sadness.

spk_0 How did we get here?

spk_0 Yeah, and it's the oboe again that guides us through here.

spk_0 And it's a favorite moment, I think,

spk_0 among some oboe players.

spk_0 Nicholas Stovall of the NSO, when he came on and talked and played for us.

spk_0 I think he played this, and he talked about it being one of his favorite moments.

spk_0 Guide the orchestra from C minor to E-flat major.

spk_0 And again, he does some things that are rather unexpected,

spk_0 or jagged, and I'm thinking of that moment with the horn that came in for a second

spk_0 in the first movement before being interrupted.

spk_0 As we get softer and softer here,

spk_0 there's a sudden, louder dynamic again before it's brought back.

spk_0 Now, Evan, the funeral march to me, it feels like it kind of ends

spk_0 right here. In fact, you could stop right here, and well, yeah, that was...

spk_0 That was a very moving, really written movement, and now we're going to move on.

spk_0 That would make a perfect sense, yes.

spk_0 Yeah, and especially like 10, 15 years earlier.

spk_0 But this is just the beginning. He goes on, the oboe continues.

spk_0 And one thing I want us to listen for is how he's stretching things out in the strings with

spk_0 these triplets in the winds underneath.

spk_0 In this whole passage, it feels like he's just thrown a ball beautifully far

spk_0 high in the air, and it just lands right at the oboe's feet as they take over,

spk_0 and then the others take those triplets and they exchange lines.

spk_0 And these very steady triplets seem like the opposite side of the coin from the dotted rhythms

spk_0 of the first section. We have this now, this very steady,

spk_0 that very even rhythm, and somehow the juxtaposition of those two things of the same movement

spk_0 is so powerful. And then we get to this point where there's this little few, the Fugato,

spk_0 which is what the term we use for a few, which is just sort of a brief,

spk_0 fungal passage rather than a fully written out few. But you have this imitative counterpoint

spk_0 in this very strict style that's very old-fashioned, even by the beginning of the 19th century.

spk_0 Not a lot of fugues in the music of this era. I think of a Beethoven symphony as a fugue.

spk_0 And you don't, there's not, maybe the ninth string quartet has one.

spk_0 You don't have a lot of them, but you do have a fugue pretty consistently in the Viennese mass

spk_0 tradition. Mozart and Heiden wrote in that style, and Beethoven's two masses. They both have fugues

spk_0 at the end of the Gloria and the Cretto. That's just a tradition that goes way back.

spk_0 So it decays this kind of religiosity. There's a kind of solemnity to that, to the fugue as well.

spk_0 And the fact that he inserts one here in this particular spot, you know, that's again,

spk_0 he's summoning this very old-fashioned kind of idea. Like we're talking about the dotted rhythm

spk_0 going all the way back to Louis XIV or whatever. And this is also a very old musical style,

spk_0 but he's giving it something a very new, a new wine and old wine skins, I guess would be the

spk_0 metaphor I'd use. This grows as it sustains and it grows and it feels like we're transforming it

spk_0 to something very different, much deeper than the march that started this movement. And the horns

spk_0 are absolutely glorious. And this is a symphony that has moments like this and others as well here

spk_0 that I would say makes it a symphony that knows you better than you know yourself because

spk_0 he's taken us to this glorious moment, but then it gets a little bit different. We start to get

spk_0 darker. The trumpet comes in with this stab, this intense sound.

spk_0 And you think that's kind of it and then it raises in pitch and it sounds relentless also with

spk_0 the strings, you know, just chugging along underneath. I wonder for some people watching the

spk_0 premiere, Evan, this was the first time they experienced something like I'm thinking Edgar

spk_0 Allen Poe's Telltale Heart. You've heard this funeral music, you've heard something more sacred

spk_0 that you hear like in a church, this fugato aspect. And now you're hearing something that makes you

spk_0 reflect inward. He's taken us from this passive view of a funeral march, which you're watching a

spk_0 funeral march, right? The person dead is not hearing it famously. I'm not a scientist, but I'm pretty

spk_0 sure. That's how it works. So we've taken us from that point of view to something more intimate,

spk_0 to now know, look inside yourself at this point. Yeah, this is a very public, a funeral march is a

spk_0 very public thing. Yeah. You know, that it's a public procession. And yet this is also very intimate.

spk_0 There's a very personal experience that we have listening to this music where we're forced to

spk_0 confront ourselves as individuals and as part of a community with these incredibly intense,

spk_0 these physical emotions that we feel in our abdomens. And Beethoven just knows as a composer how

spk_0 to write music in a way that's going to, you talk, you use a word stab a lot. I mean, it's definitely

spk_0 there's a kind of a poking, I want to say invasive, but there's a sense of something that's entering

spk_0 into your being in a way that's painful, but also healing. And this music in particular, there's

spk_0 that sense of we're being forced to confront something in ourselves that's painful and frightening,

spk_0 terrifying even. And yet there's a profound truth and with that truth comes liberation.

spk_0 Absolutely, Evan. And there's just two points I have more on this movement to listen for.

spk_0 One is a rhythmic aspect. And you can hear how Beethoven makes sound faster without actually

spk_0 being faster when you take an accompaniment that's triplets.

spk_0 And then you change it to 16th where you have that rest on the downbeat. It's the same amount of

spk_0 notes, but now the amount of time it's taking up is different.

spk_0 It's a subtle difference. A non-musician might not be able to articulate or really notice it

spk_0 consciously, but it has an effect. Oh yes. And then in the final minute, we're getting really small,

spk_0 we're getting really quiet. It's hard to really depict because it's so soft, but then a final

spk_0 burst of energy right at the end.

spk_0 And not to be too morose, but this also reminds me of death in a sense, the sudden burst of energy

spk_0 or clarity that is, you know, I think it's, I forget what it's called, it's a pretty well-documented

spk_0 phenomenon. That is a part of death. Yes, very frequently. And again, there's that physical aspect

spk_0 of this music. This is embodied aspect. And you know, the question of why Beethoven would include

spk_0 a funeral march in what started off as a tribute to a living hero, it's a fascinating question,

spk_0 not easy to answer. It's a hero's funeral march. It invokes the overpowering individual and communal

spk_0 grief of losing someone or losing something that was truly extraordinary. And it's the music of

spk_0 irreparable, irretrievable loss. But why? Why put that in this symphony? And why is it the second

spk_0 movement? And we have this expression of overwhelming grief. And then we have to move on to something else.

spk_0 Yeah. And when we do it, it makes perfect sense. And yet, how did he conceive? What is he trying to

spk_0 say? Why? There's so many questions that really can't be answered. That's important. There are

spk_0 questions that can't be answered. And I would be skeptical of someone who told you they knew the answer.

spk_0 Yeah. Two minutes. But we're going to jump into the premiere. And what happened there right after this?

spk_0 Classical Breakdown Your Guide to Classical Music is brought to you by WETA Classical.

spk_0 Join us for the music anytime, day or night at www. Classical.org, where you'll also find educational

spk_0 resources like take note, the WETA Classical playlist, and our blog Classical Score. Find all that

spk_0 and more at www. Classical.org. Now we get into the premiere, Evan of Beethoven's Third Symphony.

spk_0 The first performance of it was a private one at the Palace of Prince of Lopkovitz in June

spk_0 of 1804. And I can't believe that they had just two rehearsals. I read that I forget. I think it was

spk_0 a letter. I can't have gone well. No. I mean, maybe, but uh, yeah, two rehearsals is difficult.

spk_0 Today, an orchestra can sit down and play this with zero rehearsal. Is it going to be a great

spk_0 performance? Probably not. The musicians will know, you know, out of all the concerts, that was another

spk_0 a home kind of thing, but they did not have any of that context or anything back then. So two

spk_0 rehearsals that had to be difficult. And there is a little bit, I want to read from a critic who was

spk_0 at the public premiere in April of 1805. They wrote this. Musical connoisseurs and amateurs were

spk_0 divided into several parties. One group, Beethoven's very special friends, maintains that precisely,

spk_0 this symphony is a masterpiece. The other group utterly denies this work any artistic value.

spk_0 Through strange modulations and violent transitions with abundant scratches in the bass,

spk_0 with three horns and so forth, a true, if not desirable, originality can indeed be gained

spk_0 without much effort. The third, very small group, stands in the middle. They admit that the symphony

spk_0 contains many beautiful qualities, but admit that the context often seems completely disjointed,

spk_0 and that the endless duration exhausts even connoisseurs, becoming unbearable to the mere amateur.

spk_0 To the public, the symphony was too difficult, too long. Beethoven, on the other hand, did not

spk_0 find the applause to be sufficiently outstanding. I have just a couple things on this. Well,

spk_0 one, I guess journalistic malpractice, that's as old as time. I mean, who wrote this? Who edits these

spk_0 things with these papers? But also, it's kind of funny that I'm getting a sense of the writers also

spk_0 annoyed that we've got this third group who won't make up their mind. Yeah. It's like some people

spk_0 love it, some people hate it, and then there's these people who won't even take a side. There's

spk_0 an old story. I don't know if it's true of somebody shouting out at an early performance. I'll pay

spk_0 another croitzer if this thing will stop. The symphony is really long by the standards of that

spk_0 particular moment in time, and yes, the mere length of it, never mind the content, must have been

spk_0 very confusing to a lot of people in the audience. And this underrehearsed question is also an

spk_0 interesting one. Beethoven's Mass in C was famously doomed by insufficient rehearsal. You have

spk_0 to wonder, we talk about the first audiences and how confused they must have been, but of course,

spk_0 there's these orchestral musicians who have to play this piece. They've never heard it before.

spk_0 They've never played it before. Whether they're well rehearsed or not, were they confused?

spk_0 Were they excited? Were they baffled? Were they thrilled? It's hard to say, but surely that must

spk_0 have been a great challenge to play this music for the first time. Lots of pieces we can think of

spk_0 the right of spring Stravinsky's obvious example. The first musicians were like, what the heck is this?

spk_0 And now of course, it's auditioned repertoire. So things change, but the confusion that people

spk_0 experience wasn't just in the audience. So the first two movements are so long. I mean,

spk_0 the first movement is longer than a lot of early symphonies that were ever composed. Together,

spk_0 they're longer than most symphonies by Hiner Mozart ever. So after that, of course, he takes us to

spk_0 a third movement, which is quite short and really not that daring at all when it comes to the

spk_0 structure, right? I mean, this sounds like a nice scared so. It's one of my favorite.

spk_0 But yeah, but after maybe two big, heavy movements, he needs to give us something to say, hey,

spk_0 you know, life's the destination is set, but the journey isn't. You know, this is abuelant. It's

spk_0 full of life. It feels rustic and fun.

spk_0 Yeah, it's a scar so entrieu. So structurally, I would say the most old-fashioned of the four

spk_0 movements of this very original, very revolutionary symphony. And Beethoven is the composer who put the

spk_0 scar so into the symphony. Before that, there was a minuet typically in a symphony. You look at

spk_0 this weird. He doesn't call it a scar so, but it basically is one, I would say.

spk_0 Minuet and trio, trio doesn't necessarily mean in this context three instruments. Although,

spk_0 once upon a time, it probably was that it just means a middle contrasting section. And it's

spk_0 a A, B, A is the structure of the whole movement. Again, very old-fashioned structure,

spk_0 minuet and trio going back to the middle of the 18th century. And the minuet, of course, is a dance.

spk_0 And you could argue that Beethoven by taking the minuet out of the symphony, he doesn't put one

spk_0 back in until the 8th symphony is he's maybe he's de-dance-ifying the symphony as a genre.

spk_0 Yeah. And yet, here we have this scar so in the Auroaica symphony after this crushing funeral

spk_0 march. And it dances. It's a very dance like, you know, we talked about you and I talked about the

spk_0 Beethoven violin concerto in an earlier episode and how dance like the finale of that

spk_0 move that pieces. And this again is a very dance like experience and that's part of what gives

spk_0 it its vitality. I have wonder if Beethoven would have turned around and said, you know, why are you so

spk_0 morose? Enjoy the scar so. Well, you didn't like that funeral march. But for me, there's not much

spk_0 to mention, too much to mention, musically just enjoy this one. I love the Beethoven's play with

spk_0 rhythm. There's this descending line that works so perfectly in three four in this little trill

spk_0 at the end. And then at the end, it comes back a different way and I love it. But the big

spk_0 revolutionary part of this movement is the orchestration, which also seems quite simple for what

spk_0 the symphony is actually doing. It sounds like it's larger than the sum of its parts. But we only

spk_0 get one extra instrument, which is an extra horn. So instead of two, we get three and they are

spk_0 featured beautifully here.

spk_0 Yes. So the minuet and trio, the scar so and trio, it really is kind of a trio in a way with

spk_0 those three horns very prominently featured there. Yeah. And he wrote it in a way that it doesn't

spk_0 require a lot of stopped horned sounds like that, you know, compact buzzing sound that we heard

spk_0 from a horn player last season. But it's, you know, quite open sound. And I love it and I always

spk_0 love how Beethoven brings these kind of pastoral, jocular sounds into the music. And it's a heroic

spk_0 symphony. And this thing with the three horns in particular has a very heroic sound to it.

spk_0 Why is it heroic? I don't know. But I think most of us, when we hear this, we think, yes,

spk_0 that's heroic. Ta-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-dum-tum-tum-tum-tum. And yet scar so is the word means joke. Now not all

spk_0 scarozos are actually humerus. But this one is and it's not a joke in a sort of a silly or frivolous

spk_0 sense. What's the joke? Are we laughing at a death itself after a funeral march? Are we laughing

spk_0 at the uncertainties of life in Western Europe

spk_0 at the beginning of the 19th century,

spk_0 are we laughing at ourselves,

spk_0 at imagining ourselves to be the hero of our own story

spk_0 when we were just struggling mortals?

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 And the fun or joke aspect of it really comes in

spk_0 from me right at the end where he has that descending rhythm

spk_0 again that I like.

spk_0 And then he changes at the last time to be in two,

spk_0 or we would say duple, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

spk_0 And it just, oh, that's one of the things I love about Beethoven.

spk_0 But then we get to the fourth movement,

spk_0 which opens in such an unusual way for me at first,

spk_0 because what is this?

spk_0 Is this a concerto?

spk_0 We get to this big moment,

spk_0 and I expect some solo violin or piano to come in.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 But that doesn't happen.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 And it's a lot like the finale of the Ninth Symphony,

spk_0 where you have this cacophonous burst out of nowhere

spk_0 that jumps you out of your seat.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And yet again, it's totally unexpected.

spk_0 And once it has happened, what else could have happened?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It's just right and true.

spk_0 And then right after it, we get what I would call a scared

spk_0 so a joke, because this really does feel like a joke.

spk_0 We get a whole bunch of what I would call kind of nothing.

spk_0 It's this stiff-legged pizzicato, like a wooden doll,

spk_0 kind of walking around, some sudden louder dynamics.

spk_0 But on the whole, it sounds like a lot of nothing.

spk_0 If I was Beethoven, I might turn around.

spk_0 You actually like this?

spk_0 Are you listening still?

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 And then it's like, oh, OK, we'll go on then.

spk_0 And then the theme comes in.

spk_0 And from there, we get a set of variations.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 And you say a whole lot of nothing.

spk_0 It's important to point out that you're absolutely right,

spk_0 in a sense.

spk_0 There's a lot of silence, because there are a lot of rests.

spk_0 Just these very short notes.

spk_0 And the rest is silence.

spk_0 As Hamlet says, as he's dying, the rest is silence.

spk_0 But here, it's not this dying.

spk_0 It's this kind of humorous peculiar little theme, which

spk_0 is out of nowhere.

spk_0 But like, oh, this is a theme in variations.

spk_0 But it's not an unusual way to end a symphony or a concerto

spk_0 in even going back to Mozart and Heiden and so forth.

spk_0 That the idea that you would end a symphony

spk_0 with the theme and variations is a particularly revolutionary

spk_0 in itself.

spk_0 But what Beethoven does with variations

spk_0 is like no other composer.

spk_0 And you really already see that here.

spk_0 Now, this is a set of 10 variations plus a Coda.

spk_0 And one of the many things that's

spk_0 interesting about this particular finale

spk_0 in the heroic symphony is he's drawing on previous works

spk_0 in a way that I can't think of any other Beethoven piece,

spk_0 where he takes a piece of thematic material

spk_0 and uses it again and again and again in multiple pieces

spk_0 over a period of years.

spk_0 Occasionally, you'll find little bits

spk_0 like there's a bit in Fidelio that comes from something

spk_0 earlier and so forth.

spk_0 It's not completely unheard of for Beethoven

spk_0 to reuse material.

spk_0 But here, there's a contradance from I think 1801, 1802,

spk_0 where it's like note for note.

spk_0 You have that material that gets used in this symphony.

spk_0 And there's the creatures of Prometheus, the ballet,

spk_0 that he wrote around a few years before that.

spk_0 And again, the same very similar music appears there.

spk_0 And then there's a set of piano variations,

spk_0 it's Opus 35, and they're often called the Arrolica Variations,

spk_0 which is a very similar, the theme is basically the same theme

spk_0 as in the finale of the third symphony.

spk_0 And the variations that he writes for piano in that piece

spk_0 are very, very similar in a lot of ways.

spk_0 There also quite different in some ways,

spk_0 but it's not just like a piano reduction of this symphony,

spk_0 but clearly he's thinking ahead

spk_0 about what he can do with this theme

spk_0 as far as creating variations for it.

spk_0 And he does a lot of work on that in the piano piece.

spk_0 The Opus 35 variations, and then he takes it

spk_0 to a whole different level with this symphony.

spk_0 ["The Star of the World"]

spk_0 I'll put on the show notes page, some links,

spk_0 or playlist of those works, because those are interesting

spk_0 to listen to.

spk_0 I never really can remember if or when I listened

spk_0 to Arrolica Variations last,

spk_0 but I listened to it again after you mentioned it.

spk_0 And you hear some of these aspects.

spk_0

spk_0 ["The Star of the World"]

spk_0 And then we get to a moment that reminds me

spk_0 of what you're talking about with Fugato in the second movement.

spk_0 We get something that's not an actual fugue,

spk_0 it's an imitation, isn't quite stand on its own,

spk_0 but it's a remarkable point that just creates a minor sound

spk_0 and some turbulence that I find really, really engaging.

spk_0 One of my favorite parts of the finale, Evan,

spk_0 is the Stormy Minor Contrasting section

spk_0 with these upwards 16th running lines,

spk_0 which I find Beethoven does that a bit more than other composers.

spk_0 He does it at the end of the symphony.

spk_0 He also does it in a beautiful way,

spk_0 at the end of the ninth symphony.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 These A-sending lines are just, I love how it does it,

spk_0 because if we, I've talked a lot about

spk_0 Chekhovsky in contrasting motion,

spk_0 he does it to the nth degree.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 But that's not how Beethoven's using it here.

spk_0 And this is a moment that doesn't even last that long,

spk_0 but he's investing quite a bit of energy into it.

spk_0 And again, this is a moment where there are a lot of these moments

spk_0 of this symphony.

spk_0 We haven't really touched on this as deeply,

spk_0 where there's actually a kind of delicacy about it.

spk_0 You know, everything that we think of as heroic,

spk_0 it's very brash and loud, and you know,

spk_0 there's this triumph, and yeah, there's definitely,

spk_0 that's, there's some wonderful effects

spk_0 in this symphony that articulate that.

spk_0 But there's also these moments that are just very exquisite,

spk_0 and there's something heroic about them too.

spk_0 And we should mention the length of the last two movements.

spk_0 The first two movements are like a half hour altogether.

spk_0 The last two can often fit within the length of just the first one.

spk_0 Yeah, shorter.

spk_0 Yeah, much, much shorter.

spk_0 There's more, Terce and economical, you might say.

spk_0 And I think him using a theme in variations,

spk_0 rap, and then he's going to say,

spk_0 this up in a way that's much more familiar.

spk_0 You think of a mall or symphony,

spk_0 which takes you on a journey,

spk_0 even in the final movement.

spk_0 Here, it's familiar.

spk_0 We've got these things coming back in again and again,

spk_0 and some of these few elements that we heard before.

spk_0 And I also find another concherto-like moment,

spk_0 because we get to a point where it feels like

spk_0 we're about to have some kind of cadenza,

spk_0 but it's after, but it's actually like a soft,

spk_0 gentle, reflective moment in the oboe

spk_0 and winds that just really stretches on.

spk_0 Now, Evan, we've been explaining all these different things,

spk_0 these different sounds, these theme in variations,

spk_0 all these things happening.

spk_0 But we're actually right towards the end of the symphony.

spk_0 We've got like a minute and a half left,

spk_0 and it does not sound like we are anywhere near the end.

spk_0 It feels like we have a lot more to go.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 But he wraps it up really quick in a way that's like,

spk_0 oh my god, I'm Blake.

spk_0 He's been scrolling on the couch and he jumps off

spk_0 and runs in the car.

spk_0 There's just kind of a flip side from what we talked about earlier

spk_0 where the funeral march reaches a point early on

spk_0 where it seems like it could just end there.

spk_0 And then we go in this hole with the journey.

spk_0 Well, here, it seems like we could go on a hole with the journey,

spk_0 and Beethoven says, no, actually, we're done.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And we are done.

spk_0 Of course, I'm hungry for more.

spk_0 And yet, again, Beethoven does the unexpected,

spk_0 and once it happens, we say, yes,

spk_0 that's the only investing that could have happened.

spk_0 So you've seen now how this symphony broke expectations.

spk_0 It broke the mold.

spk_0 These huge movements that are much more expanded.

spk_0 I mean, the second is in a world of itself.

spk_0 This dedication to Napoleon and then reversing it.

spk_0 What is the music even truly saying?

spk_0 I'm not going to pretend I have some kind of oracle

spk_0 answer on that, but I find this quote from Barrio's interesting

spk_0 in 1862, he wrote,

spk_0 it is wrong to tamper with the description

spk_0 placed at the head of this work by the composer himself.

spk_0 The inscription runs heroic symphony

spk_0 to celebrate the memory of a great man.

spk_0 In this, we see that there is no question of battles

spk_0 or triumphal marches, such as many people,

spk_0 deceived by mutilations of the title, naturally expect.

spk_0 But much in the way of grave and profound thought

spk_0 of Melancholy Souveneers and of ceremonies imposing

spk_0 by their grandeur and sadness.

spk_0 In a word, it is the hero's funeral rights.

spk_0 I know a few examples in music of a style

spk_0 in which grief has been so consistently able to retain

spk_0 such pure form and such nobility of expression.

spk_0 And that's actor Barrio's in 1862.

spk_0 Some good points there.

spk_0 Yeah, we think of the battle and triumphs in Eineldinley,

spk_0 a hero's life by Richard Strauss.

spk_0 We don't have that here.

spk_0 And is this some kind of death of Beethoven's earlier life

spk_0 and now he's moving on to something else

spk_0 with this, after this high-wagon-stought experience?

spk_0 And you know, it's so interesting, John.

spk_0 You mentioned Eineldinleybyn Richard Strauss

spk_0 where he's the hero.

spk_0 It's a musical self-portrait.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Rather, rather conceded one maybe.

spk_0 It's great music.

spk_0 Is Beethoven the hero in this symphony?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Maybe he is, maybe to some extent,

spk_0 on the other hand, maybe Beethoven is looking

spk_0 outside of himself here.

spk_0 And maybe more so in this work than in any other work of his.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Again, the dedication, even a scrapped dedication

spk_0 to someone he didn't know personally

spk_0 and how that morphs into this broad idea of the heroic.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Who is heroic?

spk_0 Who's the hero?

spk_0 Is it a self-portrait?

spk_0 Is it a musical portrait of all that is heroic

spk_0 in all of humanity?

spk_0 And of course, you mentioned Richard Strauss

spk_0 and I'm thinking about the metamorphosen

spk_0 for the 23 solos strings toward the end of his life.

spk_0 And he quotes the funeral march in Beethoven's Third Symphony

spk_0 as a way of evoking the heroic in a culture

spk_0 that has to undo these terrible transformations

spk_0 of war and violence.

spk_0 And Beethoven is also exploring those kinds of feelings

spk_0 of loss and recovery and healing and transformation

spk_0 in his own way.

spk_0 And what Beethoven is saying the stage for,

spk_0 Richard Strauss is certainly worth mentioning.

spk_0 But Franz Schubert and Robert Schumann

spk_0 and of course Anton Brookner and Richard Wagner

spk_0 and Gustav Mahler, none of them can do what they do

spk_0 without Beethoven and especially not

spk_0 without Beethoven's Third Symphony.

spk_0 Absolutely.

spk_0 And the only thing I have to add here

spk_0 is just kind of my personal feeling about this

spk_0 and a lot of Beethoven's music in that it's like

spk_0 he's holding up a mirror but not a normal mirror.

spk_0 Like when you look in the mirror

spk_0 and you see that the image is flipped,

spk_0 a scientific discovery I made at age three.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 But there are mirrors that show you how you actually look

spk_0 to other people.

spk_0 It's not magic, it's just two mirrors at a 90 degree angle.

spk_0 But there's videos online of people

spk_0 like in the streets seeing themselves this way

spk_0 for the first time and the reactions are very endearing.

spk_0 So in the end I think in my imagination,

spk_0 Beethoven is holding up a mirror to us in the audience

spk_0 but not one that shows your flipped self

spk_0 but one that shows your true self.

spk_0 And I guess that will change throughout your life.

spk_0 That's just my big pine sky thought about it.

spk_0 But Evan and everyone, if you're still here,

spk_0 I have this letter from Ferdinand Reese.

spk_0 You might be interested in this, Evan, I think it's quite funny.

spk_0 Beethoven in 1804 in Vienna wrote to Ferdinand Reese a letter

spk_0 and back then these are notes that could be delivered

spk_0 like right away by a courier or a messenger.

spk_0 It was the same day type thing.

spk_0 There's no context, you don't need any context.

spk_0 He writes to Reese,

spk_0 you must manage the affair very cleverly to your Reese.

spk_0 And you must absolutely insist on obtaining from him

spk_0 something and writing.

spk_0 I have stated in my letter that you too had said

spk_0 that you had heard, that you had already heard

spk_0 about the affair at the end,

spk_0 but that you didn't know who told you, do likewise

spk_0 and say that the story had even been mentioned

spk_0 already as referring to me.

spk_0 And that I was extremely anxious to know the exact truth

spk_0 so that I could read my brother Olesen.

spk_0 By the way, my brother is not supposed to know

spk_0 that here Prosh has written the truth to me.

spk_0 Come and see me after you have carried out your task

spk_0 as ambassador, all my greetings to the lady,

spk_0 if the husband is stubborn, then stick to the wife.

spk_0 I love, this is such, this is like a movie

spk_0 where Reese is doing this little side quest.

spk_0 He's, you know, if the husband is stubborn,

spk_0 stick it to the wife, you know, to get this information

spk_0 out of them.

spk_0 And Reese is like 20.

spk_0 We see these letters and sketchbooks

spk_0 and the conversation books, of course,

spk_0 that Beethoven needed toward the end of his life.

spk_0 And we're constantly reminded, you know,

spk_0 Beethoven is this larger than life being.

spk_0 He's like this marble statue to us.

spk_0 And we hear this heroic symphony that he wrote

spk_0 and we're just transported to a noble world

spk_0 of heroic struggle.

spk_0 Yes, and he's a very human being.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Very complicated, very problematic,

spk_0 very flawed human being.

spk_0 And maybe that's the heroic struggle.

spk_0 Maybe that's what's heroic about Beethoven.

spk_0 And maybe as you said, I agree with you John,

spk_0 the holding up that mirror to ourselves.

spk_0 And what do we see there?

spk_0 We see flaws, we see cowardice, we see weakness,

spk_0 we see indecision, we see selfishness.

spk_0 And Beethoven is saying yes.

spk_0 And in all that, can we still be heroic?

spk_0 And he's answering that the answer is yes,

spk_0 but we have to figure out ourselves how.

spk_0 And this symphony offers us a road map,

spk_0 but we're the ones that have to make the journey.

spk_0 Beautifully said, thank you, Evan.

spk_0 Thanks for listening to Classical Breakdown,

spk_0 your guide to classical music.

spk_0 For more information on this episode,

spk_0 visit the show notes page at ClassicalBreakdown.org.

spk_0 You can send me comments and episode ideas

spk_0 to ClassicalBreakdown at www.et.org.

spk_0 And if you enjoyed this episode,

spk_0 leave a review in your podcast app.

spk_0 I'm John Panther.

spk_0 Thanks for listening to Classical Breakdown

spk_0 from WETA Classical.

Beethoven's Symphony No. 3 "Eroica", Rejecting Napoleon and Charting a New Path!

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