Business
August 2025 Income Report EP 162
In this episode of The Profitable Web Designer, hosts Shannon Madern and Erica Nash share their August 2025 income report, detailing their earnings, expenses, and valuable lessons learned. They discus...
August 2025 Income Report EP 162
Business •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hey, so before we dive in,
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if you want to sell more web design projects at higher prices,
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then you are invited to join me on Friday,
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October 10th at noon Eastern for a live session,
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all about the five secrets to high converting web design
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proposals.
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We're all show with you what to change about your proposals
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to get more yeses at prices that will blow your mind.
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So to save your seat, just go to webdesigneracademy.com
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for slash proposal and enter your name and email address,
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and I'll send you all the details.
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That's webdesigneracademy.com forward slash proposal.
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Welcome to the profitable web designer,
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a podcast for web designers who want to work less
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and make more money.
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I'm your host, Shannon Madern, founder of the web designer
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academy where we've helped hundreds of web designers
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stop undercharging overworking and create
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profitable, sustainable web design businesses.
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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the profitable web designer
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podcast.
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Today I am joined by my lovely co-host, Erica Nash.
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And this is our August 2025 income report.
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So Erica, welcome back to the show.
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Thank you.
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Oh my gosh, August, I can't.
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I can't believe it's time for that already.
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I know.
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So yeah, August was a blur of a month.
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I don't know.
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Agreed.
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So for those of you who are new to the show every single month,
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we record an episode breaking down how much money the web designer
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academy made, how much it spent, all of the lessons learned along the
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way.
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And we do that just because we know that our thoughts about money
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and business and growth and pressure and stress and opportunities and
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all of the things is how we think about all of those things that
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really drive our feelings, our actions, and ultimately our results.
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And so we like to just share what we're learning here as we are growing
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our business.
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So we don't we're not a web design agency, but we are business coaches and
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mentors for women web designers.
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And so even though our business model is quite different, the
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lessons are always very, very similar.
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And we hear from you all that this is your favorite episode of the
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podcast and it's our, it's my favorite to record.
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I don't know about you, Erica, but it's my favorite.
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So I agree.
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No, it's fun.
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And I just wanted to say we talked about this a little bit, but
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I've had multiple people tell me that they in some form or fashion
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that they think this episode is scripted.
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And I just want to say this is like the most unscripted it gets.
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Like we have no idea where this conversation is going.
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So here's the preparation that happens for this about an hour
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before we start.
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I go, oh crap, there's an income report episode that we're recording
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today.
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Let me go into why now I use you need a budget to like project
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all of our expenses and make plan all of that.
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And I go to the reflect tab and I look at what came in last month
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and what we spent.
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And then I jot that down on a piece of paper and then I go and I
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look at my calendar and I'm like, where am I?
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What day is it?
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What happened last month?
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And then I just like jot down a bullet pointed list of things.
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I used to spend time scripting out an income report.
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Like a big long journal before I brought Erica before I asked
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Erica, I'm like, can you help because I'm spending too much time
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on these?
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Can you just interview me and ask me the questions?
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I would sit down and I would like write out a whole 12 page
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which 12 pages is about an hour of content, 12 page income
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report.
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And it was my time to like journal and process and whatever.
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And I loved that and that was a lot.
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It took a lot of time and I needed to I needed to change some
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things to get some time back.
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So it's so unscripted.
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It's like I plan for it.
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So I know the data to tell you all, but yeah, no, there's no
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script to it.
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It goes where it goes, which is how every podcast episode on
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the show is so.
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It's as much of a surprise to us as it is to you.
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Yeah.
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So I just remembered what I wanted to follow up with you on
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from our last episode.
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I'm just going to note that down on my list of important things
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to discuss.
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So yeah, let's go ahead and dive in.
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I'm going to hand it over to you to ask me all of the questions.
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Amazing.
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So our first question, like always is what was a total inflow
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for August of 2025 and where did it come from?
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Yeah.
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So the inflow in August of 2025 was 34,485 dollars and 38 cents.
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That came from web designer academy student payment plans.
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Next level mastermind student payment plans renewals into the
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web designer academy.
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So people joining us for a second year.
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It came from I got two new private coaching clients in August.
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Like talk about when you know something's right.
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Like the people just arrive.
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One of them was like no discovery call needed.
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She just like message me.
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It was like, Hey, can I have one of those spots?
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And I'm like, would you like to set up a call?
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She's like, no, you can just send me the contract.
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And I'm like, cool.
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We're on to something and those private coaching engagements have
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been, they're like so, so fun.
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Then we had a new web designer academy student join in August.
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What else?
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Oh, I did a flash sale for I tested a little back to school.
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50% of flash sale because on our new website, we have a page of
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like all of the courses that we've always had.
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But we're never like very well organized.
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And I was like, oh, let's do test out a little fun back to school promo for all of our
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self-study courses.
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We sold a handful of web designer academy itself study courses
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during that sale.
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So all of those little different things added up to 34, $1485 and 38 cents.
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Amazing.
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Yeah.
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So what was the total outflow and where did that money go?
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Yeah, the total outflow was $23,747 and 30 cents.
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Around 10,000 of that every single month is payroll,
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air-conized brilliant brains.
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We get paid from from that for all that we do to contribute to running this company.
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And then about 2000 every month is all of the tools and things that we used to run
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the business, all of the software, all of the tech.
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Same spiel is every month.
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Podcast producer, graphic design, conversion re optimization, all of those things.
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But the things that were not normal in August were I'd buy a new laptop.
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Oh my goodness.
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My trusty old MacBook Pro from 2020, I think it was a 2019,
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but I bought it re-firmed in 2020.
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Just started dropping internet.
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The started just randomly restarting and I diagnosed the issue and it was not going
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to it was just dying like it was overheating.
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The hardware was failing side by a new laptop and I didn't want to,
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but I was like, why would I even not give myself everything I need?
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Like I cannot run this business without a computer.
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Like the fact that I even like hesitated for a second and thought about like
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trying to make my old laptop a little long was like, that's ridiculous.
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Just get yourself the tool that you need to run the business.
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And so I did that.
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I also spent $4,000 to pay down my line of credit.
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So I talked to last in my July income report about how when I take on private
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coaching clients, the deal that I made was that for the first three,
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I'll split them 50, 50 between paying myself more to get back up to what I
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used to pay myself and paying down my line of credit.
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So I was able to send $4,000 to my line of credit and paid myself an extra
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$4,000 on top of my paycheck.
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So I was happy with that.
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Floyd was very happy with that.
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And I think that's everything.
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So yeah, I was just like, oh my gosh, that little $240 that I felt like
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was not enough for the first one has kind of like opened up the floodgate.
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So if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can go listen to, I don't know
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if it was June or July.
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It was one of the past two where I was just like, I made this deal to move the money
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in a certain way.
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And then when I got the first piece of money, it felt like insignificant and
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not enough.
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And that's when I realized like, oh, I'm trying to like wait for a windfall or
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create windfalls.
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And I had to stop doing that and look at everything as like every little bit
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is important and counts.
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Every little bit is important counts.
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Yeah, I totally agree.
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I think that's such a good way to think about it.
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And like, I don't know, I just, that it's so interesting that it's like
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almost compounded in a way.
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I think.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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So you last month.
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Confessed that you, because we talked about like, oh, there are people that
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are like are just like, oh, I'm going to hold on to this and hoard this and
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not pay myself or whatever, which is what I was doing.
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Like I was still paying myself my paycheck.
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But like, I had all these conditions about like how it had to look for me to
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pay myself the owner, draw above and beyond the paycheck and that it had to
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like meet these certain criteria and it had to be like perfect for me to
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decide to just do that when in fact, that's what was causing me to never
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be able to do it.
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Was all the conditions that I placed on it.
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And then you were like, confession.
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I might be one of those people that don't pay myself and you snuck it in like
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right at the end of the episode.
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So we didn't have time to talk about it.
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But then you mentioned to me that maybe you did something about that.
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So I'm super curious.
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I did pay myself.
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It took me a couple of weeks though.
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I don't know why, but I was like, it was on my mind and it was something
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that I kept meaning to do.
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And there was just something about like the physical act of doing it that was
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a little more challenging than I thought.
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It wasn't a huge amount, but it wasn't a super tidy amount either.
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It was enough that I was like, okay, like this just needs to happen.
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And so yeah, I did pay myself probably halfway ish through the month.
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And kind of like you, I was like, well, I have the privilege of being
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able to live off of my salary from web designer academy.
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And so I just have to say that first that like it's not like I was not
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paying myself at all in terms of like, you know what I mean, income,
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but any money that I was making from the business, I was scrolling away
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because I have an investment that for one is a year long investment.
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So I don't know why I feel like I need to cover it all now, but for
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whatever reason I do.
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And so I was just kind of scrolling away to like make sure that I had
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enough for that out of a sense of fear that I'm like, why not have enough?
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Right?
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That's like where it comes from.
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So I did pay myself and it did not all fall apart.
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I'm still here.
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My business is still running.
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It's fine.
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So you were keeping it aside because the concern like I might not
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have enough to meet this obligation that I committed to.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So that's super interesting.
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So that's like just like a trusting yourself or trusting that like
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more is on the way.
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I start like that trust the decision that you made with when you made the
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decision, you made the decision knowing that it would work out.
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And that all you needed to do was do it.
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Hoping I think it would be the better word because yeah, knowing.
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Okay.
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So like I have OCD.
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So like certainty is like what is certainty?
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Right?
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Like I would love certainty.
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I chase certainty.
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Sure.
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That's the thing that like I struggle with the most.
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And so that I think is really at the core of all of it.
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And so it's like if I can see the dollar amount in my account,
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there is certainty that that will get paid.
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Literally certainty.
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But also like it's like it's a whole thing right?
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I went down the chat GPT rabbit hole.
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So chatty and I worked it out and I like put all my stuff in there.
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And like I gave like gave it all of my numbers and like my percentages
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because I do the profit first method.
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I gave it all of my percentages and I was putting like 45% into this
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one account to like make sure that it was being covered.
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And it was like, why are you doing that?
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Stop doing that.
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So we worked out some different percentages.
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And this is my first week actually with those new percentages.
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Like fully locked in.
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So we'll see how that works out.
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But like it was telling me basically that like you have enough to like cover
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X amount of months.
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Like now just put a little in there.
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And then like it was basically talking about like treating it like rent.
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Like that one expense.
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It's like rent just like take it off the top and then the rest is whatever.
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So we'll see how it works out.
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But I'm proud of you for taking the first step to
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pay yourself and that like you can trust or that that like you just
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despite the feelings of whatever fear, worry, anxiety that you
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took the action trusted yourself and then it didn't all fall apart.
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But we don't know like if it's going to work out or not.
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But guess what?
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We can always fix it.
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That's kind of the thing.
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It's like, yeah, whatever happened.
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That's kind of where I have to tell myself like no matter what happens,
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I will figure it out.
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And I'm like, oh my gosh, I think about this.
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I have been through so many worse things in this business.
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Like so many worse things where I'm like, oh, I think the plane is going to
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crash.
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And then I fix like I'm like how powerful are we that we can?
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I don't know.
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So I like, I kind of strengthens my belief in myself that I'm like,
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oh, even when it has gotten bad, I figured it out.
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So I get to lean on that every time and just trust that I'm making the
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best decisions I can with the information that I have.
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And if I get new information, I can make a different decision.
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That's it.
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Yeah, that's literally it.
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And yeah, so it felt good to like pay myself and to see that money
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in my personal account.
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And it's like, oh, I remember this.
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I know.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah.
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That's awesome.
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And so yeah, so I appreciate the conversation last time and the encouragement
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to like just go do it.
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So I don't think I would have done that.
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Listen to anybody listening.
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Also, page yourself.
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Please let us know.
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Email me shenanot web designer academy.com copy Erica, Erica web designer
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academy.com.
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Let us know you're paying yourself story.
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We want to hear them.
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And if you haven't done it, we challenge you like the smallest tensiest amount.
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If you've got money sitting in a business account that you're just like waiting
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for the perfect day.
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It's today just yet today.
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It's today.
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And I think doing the action will uncover what's really going on.
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And that's like kind of the for me.
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I was like, oh, I'm waiting for to be able to like take care of this in one fell
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swoop.
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And that's why I'm like chasing.
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I need to enroll 10 people at once instead of like, how about just one at a time?
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Like, that's fine.
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Yeah.
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That's totally fine.
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Yeah.
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And like, I don't know, like for me, I mean, it was like I said, it's about chasing
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certainty and just I touched on it last time.
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That's the thing that I'm working through right is that like, there is no real certainty.
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Period.
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And so it's just one of those things that it's going to be, we talk about like new
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levels, same doubles, often in our communities.
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And I think it's just going to be one of those things like any time I'm experiencing
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something different or new or big or scary that is going to come up.
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So it's nice to know that I can lean on you and the next level community,
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our web designer Academy students to be able to remind me because I forget.
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And so it's just important like if you don't have somebody to remind you like,
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how do you do it?
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How do you get through it?
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I don't, I really don't know.
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I think the theme of chasing the certainty, I see it come up a lot in,
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I was just having this conversation with our brand newest web designer Academy
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student when she was making the decision to join us.
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And where it was coming up for her was like picking the right business model.
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For all of the different ways people choose to run their web design business,
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is it projects?
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Is it VIP days?
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Is it a productized service?
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Is it ongoing retainer services?
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Like there's so many different business models.
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And then there's also like, do I niche?
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Do I not niche?
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If I niche, which niche?
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Like an all of these decisions feeling like, okay, I need to make the right ones.
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And if I don't make the right like or the thought process is like,
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if I pick the right business model or the right niche,
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then I will attract clients to me and this business will be a success.
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So now I have to spend time figuring out and researching what the right ones
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are building the right thing and then trying to like bring the clients in.
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And that needing that certainty of knowing that you're picking the right thing
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or on the flip side, like, I need to make sure I'm picking the right marketing strategy.
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The one that I know is right.
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The one that I know will work so that I can make sure that I'll get clients.
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It's like, it sounds so innocuous and normal.
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Like, of course, you would want to pick the right business model
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and the right niche and the right marketing strategy.
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Like, but that's what's keeping people hustling and stuck.
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Oh, yeah.
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And that's the thing and that it's like,
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you don't have certainty before you start.
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And you don't even create certainty along the way necessarily.
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You just have to decide what feels right and aligned with you
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and who you are and what your life looks like in your values.
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Go out there and try some things.
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Fail spectacularly at some things without making it mean that you did it wrong.
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You're bad.
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You're not good enough.
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Take the lessons from that and try the next thing.
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And that's what people, that's what they think.
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If that's what's happening, they're doing it wrong.
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But if you're doing that over and over on your own and you don't have
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someone helping you see the lessons or the clues or the learnings from that.
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That's when it is really hard and you just keep doing the same thing over and over.
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Well, that business model didn't work.
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Let me choose another one.
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Do the same thing, same result.
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Oh, that didn't work.
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Let me choose another one.
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And yeah, that's what I was so glad when she said,
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yes, to us because I'm like,
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Oh, I see exactly what's going on here.
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Please let me help you with that.
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Yeah.
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I love that she did that.
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And I think anytime you make a decision like that and you move forward in the uncertainty,
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you expand your capacity for experiencing uncertainty and allow yourself to
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to like be okay whenever you're like,
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I don't know what's going to happen next.
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Like maybe you have a few clues,
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maybe like we can look at data all day long.
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But who like people bet on like sports teams and those get blown out of the water all the time, right?
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And so like we'll never know.
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But when we're willing to make a few pancakes and like try some things out the very first time,
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like we just expand so much in our capacity for uncertainty, for risk, for failure.
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And I think that's just so key to being able to move forward.
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Yeah, we talk about in our marketing momentum program, passionate attachment,
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just like being willing to do the thing without being attached to the outcome,
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but you're passionate about it because you do care.
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Like I care enough to do the thing.
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I care enough to put my best effort in.
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I care enough to take some risk.
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And also,
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I'm able to detach myself from the outcome and not make that outcome put so much pressure on it
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or make it mean something about me.
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And we are talking about, I was just talking about this on our 7 a.m. call on Tuesday.
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So we have two coaching calls that we do every Tuesday 7 a.m. for our people who are in the UK
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or sometimes our early risers in the US come to that call.
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And we're just talking about like throwing spaghetti is the strategy.
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Throwing spaghetti and seeing what sticks is the strategy.
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Because people think that like,
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Oh,
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I just feel like I'm throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks and they are like,
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what that feels like the wrong thing to do.
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It's like, no, actually that's the thing to do.
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That is the strategy.
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And but we want some certainty that like,
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oh, I picked the right brand of spaghetti.
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I boiled it for the exact right time.
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And if I follow all the appropriate steps and I throw it at the wall,
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every single piece will stick.
spk_0
And like, that's not how this works.
spk_0
And yes, we have frameworks.
spk_0
Yes, we have strategies.
spk_0
We have all of these things to like,
spk_0
set you up for more things sticking.
spk_0
But at the end of the day, every single person that comes through our program
spk_0
takes what works for them and they adapt things and things evolve.
spk_0
And they share their evolutions with other people.
spk_0
And everybody is like,
spk_0
taking and making it work for them,
spk_0
which is really cool too.
spk_0
So yeah,
spk_0
I love thinking about throwing spaghetti at the wall is the strategy.
spk_0
And that's exactly it.
spk_0
You never know where your next client is going to come from.
spk_0
So why not try a few things?
spk_0
See what it feels good.
spk_0
They open up and turn over all the rocks.
spk_0
See what's under them.
spk_0
Don't judge the rocks.
spk_0
Don't judge.
spk_0
And don't like feel bad about yourself if you pick up a rock and it's like carbon and ants.
spk_0
Or if you drop it on your toe or whatever,
spk_0
because like things are going to happen.
spk_0
And it will be fun.
spk_0
Yeah, we're still good.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So let's talk about some of the important things that happened in August.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So I booked two new private coaching clients.
spk_0
And that was great.
spk_0
Okay, so it's a blend of like really good business things and really hard life things.
spk_0
So that's just life, right?
spk_0
So at the end of July,
spk_0
my grandmother,
spk_0
we moved her into a memory care facility
spk_0
because she was living with my mom is becoming very clear that she was not able to.
spk_0
It was not safe for any of us to continue to care for her the way that we were.
spk_0
Fortunately able to up until this last month.
spk_0
So the decision was made to move her into a memory care facility.
spk_0
And it's about 40 minutes away from my house.
spk_0
And one of the things that we all wanted to make sure of was that like,
spk_0
she got a visit from someone in the family every single day while she was there.
spk_0
So we all like defeated up.
spk_0
And I was able to go visit her.
spk_0
I was calling it grandma's house because at first she was just like sad that she didn't live with my mom anymore.
spk_0
And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you don't live there anymore.
spk_0
I love getting to visit you at grandma's house.
spk_0
And so we just got to have that special time together.
spk_0
And she passed away just a few days ago.
spk_0
And so in August,
spk_0
I was really able to like because of this company,
spk_0
because of this business.
spk_0
I was able to go spend a lot of time with her in the last month of her life in a really hard time for her where she was not in a familiar environment.
spk_0
When she was declining and the dementia was progressing.
spk_0
And so it's not about the money.
spk_0
I know this is an income report, but it's like,
spk_0
I'm an entrepreneur, a solo entrepreneur.
spk_0
I own my own business because I want the freedom to be there for my family.
spk_0
And I was telling Erica before we started this when my grandfather passed away back in 2016.
spk_0
I was still employed.
spk_0
I still had a day job.
spk_0
And I was running my business on the side.
spk_0
And I didn't have the luxury of going to spend all that time with him in his final weeks of his life because I couldn't take the time off work to do that.
spk_0
And like, that's why I'm like, even in the toughest times of this business where I'm like,
spk_0
I don't know if we're going to like make the money we need to make the it's like, who cares?
spk_0
Who cares?
spk_0
Because I got to go do that.
spk_0
And at the end of the day, it all works out.
spk_0
It always does.
spk_0
And the money does allow us to create freedom, flexibility, like all of those things.
spk_0
And I don't want to discount it.
spk_0
And I'm so grateful for every dollar that comes in the door.
spk_0
And it's because of that.
spk_0
It's not like everything else pills in comparison to being able to just go do those things.
spk_0
And so that was like the life stuff that was happening alongside of I enrolled to new coaching clients.
spk_0
We had like we had a really cool event for the web designer academy.
spk_0
We enrolled new students.
spk_0
I did a lot of coaching, a lot of support.
spk_0
I worked on a whole new training that we just had last week.
spk_0
So there's so many things going on like alongside of that.
spk_0
And yes, I know like I a thousand percent of like I've been working too much
spk_0
and not having like enough downtime.
spk_0
And that is definitely something I'll be talking about in September income report and what's coming next.
spk_0
But at the same time, I'm just like, I don't know how, like how do I do all of this?
spk_0
And also just like get to be there and like someone's final days, weeks, months.
spk_0
Like it's a gift.
spk_0
So yeah, that was kind of like the one big thing that happened in August was just that.
spk_0
Life stuff.
spk_0
Yeah, such a gift to be able to be there.
spk_0
And it brings to mind like we talk often about the reason that our program is 12 months is because life happens along those 12 months.
spk_0
And so it's not so much.
spk_0
I mean, yes, it is teaching the marketing strategies.
spk_0
It is teaching like the strategies like our pricing strategies and stuff like that.
spk_0
But I think even more so, it's about learning how to navigate life while you're doing business and building something that allows you to experience whatever ups and downs life might bring.
spk_0
And so it is at the end of the day, it really is not about the money.
spk_0
Really is about the ability to do whatever you got to do.
spk_0
Yeah, like we go through different seasons and we all handle different seasons differently, right?
spk_0
So like I'm the kind of person that like when I feel sad, I would rather distract myself with work.
spk_0
I know people who when they're dealing with difficult times, they need to like disconnect and rest and whatever.
spk_0
And we're here for all of that in terms of supporting people through challenging times in their business.
spk_0
The answer could look like, okay, well, how do we help you communicate with clients and disconnect and take the time you need?
spk_0
So it's about so much more than just how do I book a client at higher prices?
spk_0
We do that. We love to do that. We'll teach you how to do that all day.
spk_0
But the reason we teach you that is so that you have full autonomy and freedom on the back end to attend to your life and the things that are important to you.
spk_0
And yeah, so I'm just like proud of that.
spk_0
Yeah, absolutely. And it's not just about charging higher prices, right?
spk_0
It's also about like the boundaries that come with like those projects and we teach a lot about that.
spk_0
And because I'm sure people are thinking about at least I've heard people talk about experiences of like being at hospitals and like answering emails and like things like that.
spk_0
And when your packages are built a certain way with boundaries built in, one, you feel safe enough to be like, hey, this thing happened.
spk_0
And I'm going to be offline for a little while. Most of the time clients are like, go do what you need to do. Like this is fine.
spk_0
But two, that there are boundaries and systems and processes in place to support needing to take space or delegate or whatever.
spk_0
Yeah, so that you don't even have to think twice about it. You don't have to be like, but you know, which yeah.
spk_0
So that was a big thing that happened in August.
spk_0
The other things that I jotted down are we had rehas the money come into our web designer academy program and do a neuro linguistic programming session.
spk_0
For us, I was the guinea pig for that and she led me through an NLP session and it was really, really interesting.
spk_0
And she's going to come on to the podcast to talk about that in debrief. We haven't had a chance to debrief.
spk_0
Because I did give myself the gift last week before my grandmother passed, but as things were like going that direction and I had a lot of other things on my plate, I gave myself the gift of rescheduling a couple podcast interviews.
spk_0
And normally I don't like to reschedule things, even when I'm like, oh, my schedule is feeling tight because I'm the kind of person I'm like, let's just do them. And then I won't have to like do them later.
spk_0
But this time I was like, I could really use the space. And so yeah, I was really proud of myself because I gave no reason why I was just like, hey, I need to reschedule our interview for today. Here are some times when I'm available next like, hey, really looking forward to this. I need to reschedule here are some times.
spk_0
And normally I would have felt like I would have to like justify why I'm rescheduling, but I was just like, I actually have full autonomy to do whatever I want with my time.
spk_0
At any time, and I don't need to justify or give a reason for why I simply need to move this because I don't have the capacity to have the kind of conversation that I would like to have.
spk_0
And so I did. So anyway, that's a long way around like, rehouse going to be back on the podcast in a few weeks to talk about this, but she led me through this session about like being weird at sales, which we've talked about on earlier podcast episodes.
spk_0
We talked about how when I get in a one on one sale situation, I get weird.
spk_0
And we talked through, we talked through why that is. So I'm curious about like your impression of that experience of rehouse experience.
spk_0
I wasn't able to watch it.
spk_0
Oh my gosh, you weren't there. I totally forgot.
spk_0
Oh yeah.
spk_0
You weren't there. So you didn't get to experience this.
spk_0
Okay, so I'm going to tell you about it. Please tell me because then I'm curious to get your thoughts on this other thing that happened recently.
spk_0
So she was like, what is something that you would like to improve upon?
spk_0
And I was like, well, I feel awkward in one on one sales situations.
spk_0
And so she led me through this process of exploration where she's basically like, tell me about a time when you have been in an unpleasant like sale situation.
spk_0
I just started rattling off like, oh, this time and this time and this time and this time.
spk_0
And the one that really stuck out was we were on vacation in the Dominican Republic and somehow got roped into one of those like time presentation things.
spk_0
And the guy his name was Ramon. He would not let us leave.
spk_0
We had been like put on a golf cart driven to this other property like took a tour of the resort and then we're in the room.
spk_0
And like my husband and I were both like, yeah, we don't want to do this. And like they just kept us there and kept going and going and we're like trying to leave.
spk_0
And then it was like, no.
spk_0
And it was just like the worst high pressure sale situation.
spk_0
And Reha helped me realize because I didn't ever want to make anybody on the other side of the zoom screen from me feel that way.
spk_0
That not only that I like way over corrected to be like, well, maybe if you want to maybe sort of kind of like, but you don't have to.
spk_0
And so what the shift was at the end.
spk_0
And she helps me like visualize some things and I'm super curious to talk to her about like what this was.
spk_0
She was like, but what if that could feel as easy as she was like, what's something that you love doing that like you don't even think twice. I'm like, obviously coaching like.
spk_0
Oh, even on our live strategy calls or even a one on one experience.
spk_0
I feel like no type of way about that at all. I'm excited.
spk_0
I can't wait for the person on the other side of that coaching experience.
spk_0
Like I want them to see themselves the way I see them, which is like without all of the things that hold them back.
spk_0
And I see all of their brilliance that they don't see or dismiss or diminish.
spk_0
And she was like, oh, okay, well, what if you can attach that to your sales experience?
spk_0
And I was and think of it that way where like your only job is to help someone see their brilliance and make the decision.
spk_0
I was like, that feels so much better.
spk_0
So meanwhile, I have all this life stuff going on.
spk_0
I'm also like working on this new presentation.
spk_0
And then we have the opportunity last week to have a sales call with someone.
spk_0
And I literally like, if you're listening this person, I'm like, you're going to be like, this was me. I know it was me.
spk_0
I like reached my mental capacity for even processing words.
spk_0
Like I had to take a minute.
spk_0
I felt prepared yet. It was just a weird. It was like my first sales call experience after that NLP session.
spk_0
I went into it very excited, but also like feeling unprepared, feeling very tired.
spk_0
And I was like looking at this woman being like, she's so freaking incredible.
spk_0
And like she doesn't even realize how incredible she is.
spk_0
And I'm like asking questions, but there's no real process to it.
spk_0
And I just felt so adrift and lost, which afterwards I talked to.
spk_0
But I was like, okay, well, that's one step closer to where I want to be because I did not feel like I was wanting to not put so much into it.
spk_0
I don't know how much pressure on her that I was like talking or out of working with us or not believing that she wanted to work with us and not believing that she wanted to be there.
spk_0
So that was like one click closer.
spk_0
But then it was just like, I almost felt like I spent the whole time just telling her how awesome she was versus like the next step is like.
spk_0
And here's how I can help you overcome the things that are standing in your way because you are like because so it was just like, okay, I iterated my way like closer.
spk_0
I was fascinating to me is like it's so different selling this coaching that it is selling like web design projects with our package matrix.
spk_0
I'm like, can I just have a package matrix?
spk_0
So this problem for me like it doesn't work for the web designer Academy that's the same way that it works for our students which just cracks me up, which I'm like, it probably does.
spk_0
I just don't see it.
spk_0
But anyway, that's my spiel on what happened on that session.
spk_0
So I'm like seeing progress.
spk_0
Yeah, I love that it kind of reminds me of so we Shannon's is bestie and coach is Alicia Saint Germain and she does.
spk_0
Community to change and it reminds me of in the mapping process the continuum. What is it called the continuum of progress the continuum of progress.
spk_0
That's what that reminds me of is like that very first stage of like being able to recognize like, oh, I am making progress like even though maybe isn't exactly where you want to be.
spk_0
That's kind of what that reminds me of so I wonder how I don't know I wonder how closely related those modalities for like a better word might be. That's just really interesting.
spk_0
Yeah, I love that I love that concept the continuum of progress. It's like what does full success look like full success would look like me having a normal sales conversation without being weird about it.
spk_0
Whether the person says yes or no like I feel confident.
spk_0
I know exactly what to say I feel an integrity and alignment with what I'm saying.
spk_0
And I don't feel like there's pressure like all of those things I think that would be full success is that I feel like I'm myself, which is how I feel in every single other interaction that I have.
spk_0
And so it's interesting that I don't feel like myself in those environments. And so like that would be full success for me not that I don't have to prepare not that I don't have to, you know, whatever, but that I feel like myself that would be full success.
spk_0
I think a step back is having a couple like being willing to like have it feel weird a few times, but like know that like I feel aligned I feel aligned with what I'm saying.
spk_0
Like how I'm approaching it, even if I still don't quite feel like myself yet. And I think I've already just kind of experience like the first noticeable step forward is like I don't feel like the people on the other side don't want to be there.
spk_0
Like I'm like where I'm questioning like why are you here? You're so amazing. I don't even understand how we could help you. That was like the first thing that I'm thinking and then I'm like, you're so amazing. Let me just tell you how amazing you are. But let me forget to tell you exactly how we can help you now I get to put together.
spk_0
You're so amazing. And here's how we can help you.
spk_0
Yes, both are true.
spk_0
Do you feel I know like we had like kind of a conversation after that about sort of what you could do next. And so do you feel a little bit closer to that middle step?
spk_0
I do. I feel very aligned with what I'm going to try and test next.
spk_0
And also like I said, I was like literally at mental capacity last week. And so after we talked about that, I'm like, OK, I need to let my brain rest.
spk_0
And then I get to dig into this and combine those two things that we talked about. So yes, I feel a thousand percent excited to roll that in. And I think that that really has been the missing piece.
spk_0
For what you shared with me in terms of like, how do I honor the person's brilliance and also show them how we can help them.
spk_0
Like it's right.
spk_0
Probably so obvious to everyone but me, but that's how this works. Right. And that's normal. I'm like, I clearly have a big blind spot here.
spk_0
For whatever reason. And I need other people to be a mirror for me and show me what that is. And that's what coaching is all about.
spk_0
Mm hmm.
spk_0
Where it's like something that once I see it will be like, oh, that was so obvious. Why didn't I see it. But that's the nature of this work. Right.
spk_0
Or subconscious doesn't want us to see the thing because if we see the thing, then we're going to change the thing and it feels like that changes scary.
spk_0
So it's going to obscure and obviously in like a try to make you not see. And so that's what I do with our like private coaching clients. And then they're like, oh, yeah, that's so obvious now that you say it. I'm like, yeah, but you needed to be in this space to experience that like.
spk_0
Yeah. And like open and willing to see it and accept that. Right. Yeah. I'm like, oh, please show me all my stuff. I want to see it. I don't like to suffer.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Make my suffering shorter, please.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
And I totally agree. I don't think sales can be really challenging.
spk_0
If like, regardless, you bring all your own stuff to it. It's complex because they're bringing all their own stuff to it.
spk_0
And so I think there are parts and pieces of it that really are not obvious.
spk_0
And I think one of the most uncomfortable parts about sales. And this is something that I have struggled with.
spk_0
I feel better about it now. But the idea.
spk_0
And like, this is even going to sound gross to say it like, you know, I'm going to say it because this is what the industry term would be.
spk_0
But like that, like creating that agitation and like agitating that pain and like bringing to the surface the problem or whatever.
spk_0
I'm like, that's manipulative. I don't like that. But here's the thing, right.
spk_0
The thing is that we can go about it in a way that doesn't agitate the pain, but just shines a light on what already exists and allows us to articulate that in a way that allows them to be like, oh, she knows exactly what she's talking about, which means she can help me.
spk_0
If she knows this problem that well, she can help me. And so I think that that's something that a lot of people really struggle with in sales.
spk_0
And I think a lot of at least the web designer Academy student population, I think everyone in there is in some form or fashion like undertur or like the helper and like they really, really deeply care about the person on the other side in their well-being.
spk_0
And in an attempt to make sure that they're very well taken care of, stay far away from like shining a light on the challenges that might exist.
spk_0
And that can be like that can definitely get in the way of having that sales conversation.
spk_0
You just said something that really made me think of I am really against agitation of people's pain as well.
spk_0
I think it's a manipulative sales tactic that doesn't feel good. And I think that what I have been missing is that it's not about agitating someone's pain.
spk_0
It's about a, implicitly, if they're on the other side of the Zoom screen with me, they are in some kind of pain.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
They wouldn't be there if they weren't experiencing some kind of challenge or pain, whether that's I want to reach the skull and I'm not there.
spk_0
And the pain or the challenge is I need the path there or they're experiencing overworking, undercharging, overdelivering, not knowing where to get clients.
spk_0
They're already in pain when they come to some type of pain challenge, whatever.
spk_0
It's not my job to agitate it.
spk_0
I don't even think it's my job to shine a light on it. I think it's my job to like understand it deeply and empathize with it and offer a solution.
spk_0
And I think that that's kind of the piece where it's like, that's that part where you're like, oh, she really gets it because I really do get it.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And I think that that feels more aligned to me than like, oh, let me remind you of all of the pain that you're in so that I can sell you something that will solve it.
spk_0
It's more like, let me make sure I deeply understand your challenges so that if this is the right thing for you, then I can help you make sure it's the right thing for you.
spk_0
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I think that that's the piece that's been like, that's made me hands off to the hands off, not even hands off. I still want to understand where people are struggling.
spk_0
But also where it has felt like we're moving into like a sales conversation from let's talk about where you're struggling and then transitioning that into like, here's the solution.
spk_0
So the interesting thing about all of this though is I think about I just the other important thing that happened in August is that I had the realization which this is like interesting because we've been teaching this for over five years now.
spk_0
The package matrix came on the scene in at least 2018 in the web designer academy. So we've been teaching this for over seven years.
spk_0
I had the realization that the package matrix is our differentiator at the web designer academy.
spk_0
So you and I went through this whole rebranding process. We launched our new website in July. And part of our like brand strategy process was like, well, what makes the web designer academy, the web designer academy.
spk_0
Like what makes it unique, what makes it different, what's our thing. And we have so many things right, we have our community, we have our core values, we work with women, we're all about profitable sustainable web design businesses.
spk_0
We have all of these things that make us what we are and unique. And then I was thinking about we did all of work with the brand and the customer journey and emails and that was like really like the middle of funnel experience right like once people find us.
spk_0
And that's what they're experiencing. But then what actually are we selling. And yes, we're selling business coaching mentorship community support all of that. But the vehicle for that is our package matrix.
spk_0
And that was like the realization that I had in working with a new way to like do our sales presentations are the one to many stuff.
spk_0
I'm golden with that one to one. That's where I got to work on it. But yeah, so I was working on this new presentation.
spk_0
And the framework that I was using was like come up with a core premise like what's the through line of everything you do. And I'm like it's package matrix.
spk_0
And how it really is the thing that underlies everything we do. It's what makes everything I'm talking about with sales in your web design business like pretty much non-existent in terms of like.
spk_0
How we teach sales in the web designer academy bypasses all of the challenges I'm talking about in selling the web designer academy.
spk_0
Which I don't irony is not the right term. But the interesting thing is that the reason the package matrix exists and works so well is because it allowed me to avoid all of these things that are really challenging for me.
spk_0
And this one on one sales process package matrix solves that for service providers.
spk_0
And so just even having the realization that it's your proposal is everything from how you charge higher prices, how you make the sales process feels so much easier, how you set sustainable boundaries with your clients, how you even run projects.
spk_0
All stems from this one core tool that we teach inside of the web designer academy. That was like a big huge breakthrough.
spk_0
That's so exciting that I'm like, oh, when we're talking about our quote unquote competitors or other people who are coaching, mentoring web designers like the way we teach proposals is different and unique from anybody out there.
spk_0
And it's the reason why all of our students are like, I'm selling more projects at higher prices than I could have ever imagined possible.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And I think it does cover all of those spaces. And like one of our core values is aspiration over agitation because that agitation piece like neither one of us were like not okay with that.
spk_0
And there's even a piece in there that I like to think about like instead of shining a light on the challenges, it's like a bid for connection.
spk_0
There is a piece in there that is that bid for connection that's like, I understand your problem so deeply that this is the package that's perfect for you because of XYZ challenges or XYZ goals or whatever it might be.
spk_0
And so it solves, I think every single piece of that package matrix solves a very specific problem from sales all the way through project completion.
spk_0
And that is, I don't know, I haven't been in another program that like is quite that thorough.
spk_0
So I agree that it is the thing that assets WDA part.
spk_0
So to that end, we're going to be testing out messaging shifts, right? So like nothing changes, except for instead of me saying run a profitable sustainable web design business.
spk_0
I'm going to be talking about like, oh, you're just one proposal away from a profitable sustainable web design business or things like that, which is what we've been doing all along, but it's like I've always kept Patrick like tucked away inside of the program.
spk_0
And like once you come in and you realize package matrix is everything. It's like the foundation of your whole business. And once you build this foundational piece, everything is built on top of that foundation and to build that foundation, you got to get your money mindset, right?
spk_0
And really truly believe in your value and all of those things. And then you build that foundation and your business is run off of that. And so that's really just going to be the test is testing out like a new training.
spk_0
I just did on Friday, I did the five secrets of high converting web design proposals. It was so good. It was so so good.
spk_0
And we got such great feedback. And I'm just going to be testing out doing that training over and over and over and over again, see what happens.
spk_0
And it's really start talking about like all of the problems and challenges and opportunities when you use our proposal process sales process the way we teach how it works.
spk_0
And I'm like, how can I just adapt this to the web designer academy at some point, but I'll figure it out. I think I just have to check all of the same boxes in my process that the package matrix checks for our web designers, which is a psychological safety autonomy.
spk_0
And I can't remember the third one off the top of my head because capacity is still limited after a jam packed August, but those things are important to me. And if I feel like any one of them is off, it's just not going to work anyway.
spk_0
So I'm very excited to test out the new messaging around like it's not the web designer academy that helps you do that, although it is, but it's like you're just a proposal away from the revenue that you want in your business.
spk_0
So good. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Right. It's just like, oh, you could come in and not change a single thing about your offer, except for how you're presenting it and have an entirely different experience.
spk_0
Experience. Yeah. That is magical. It feels magical. Yeah. So good stuff. I think that's it for this episode. Any last final thoughts insights that you want to share before we wrap it up.
spk_0
Oh my gosh. So many good nuggets. I think one, if you're listening, you're not paying yourself, go pay yourself.
spk_0
And then two, just thinking about like if your business is not where it's at, where you be able to take time away for family or for yourself or whatever, just kind of considering like what would need to change in order for that to be possible.
spk_0
Yeah. And then if you want support with that, that's what we're here for. So good. Yeah.
spk_0
I think that's the perfect place to wrap up this conversation. Amazing. So thank you all so much for listening. Erica, thank you for being here. And we'll see you all back here next week.
spk_0
Yeah. Thank you. Bye everyone. Bye. Hey, so before you go, quick question for you. Have you been listening to the podcast for a while and are curious if the web designer academy is right for you?
spk_0
If that sounds like you request an invitation to our next open house where you'll get to attend our next live strategy call and then take a tour of the program with me and get all of your questions answered.
spk_0
All you got to do to get your invitation is go to webdesigneracademy.com forward slash open house. Fill out a quick form telling me more about your web design business and your goals. And if it looks like I can help also do a link to join us at our next open house.
spk_0
Zero pressure zero commitment just to transfer you to check it out and see if it's the right fit to get the date and time of our next open house and request your invitation.
spk_0
Just go to web designer academy.com forward slash open house. That's web designer academy.com forward slash open house.
spk_0
This podcast is part of the Sound Advice FM network. Sound Advice FM. Women's Voices amplified.
Topics Covered
web design projects
high converting proposals
web designer academy
profitable web designer
business coaching for web designers
income report
web design business growth
private coaching clients
self-study courses
financial management for designers
web design tools and software
paying down credit
web design mentorship
women web designers
business sustainability