News
#696 Pouring into Public Service with Lesley Milton, St. Helena, CA
#696 of Guglev features Lesley Milton, Deputy City Manager of St. Helena, CA, who shares her journey in local government and the joy of public service. From her early career in traffic engineering to ...
#696 Pouring into Public Service with Lesley Milton, St. Helena, CA
News •
0:00 / 0:00
Interactive Transcript
spk_0
Music
spk_0
Coming to you from Long Beach, California, this is Guglev, a podcast about local government,
spk_0
brought to you by Engaging Local Government Leaders.
spk_0
I'm Meredith Reynolds, Deputy City Manager at the City of Long Beach, and your Guglev
spk_0
hosts for this episode.
spk_0
Guglev is produced by ELGL, Engaging Local Government Leaders.
spk_0
You can support Guglev by joining ELGL and taking advantage of professional development
spk_0
opportunities like Camp of Life.
spk_0
The 2025 ELGL Annual Conference at Santa Rosa, California, walked over first through
spk_0
third.
spk_0
Whether you're a season local government pro, or a first time local government camper,
spk_0
Camp Guglev is a perfect place to learn, grow, and make memories with fellow public
spk_0
students.
spk_0
So visit ELGL.org today and learn more and secure your spot.
spk_0
Also this year we are celebrating 10 years of the Guglev podcast.
spk_0
Help us commemorate this important milestone by calling the Guglev hotline at 720282 1752.
spk_0
Leave us a message with your favorite Guglev memories or your predictions on the next 10 years
spk_0
of local government.
spk_0
You just might be featured on the spot on the future Guglev episode.
spk_0
And now on with our show.
spk_0
Today's guest is Leslie Milton, Deputy City Manager of the City of St. Helena, California.
spk_0
Leslie previously served as the City Clerk for the City of Palo Alto and the Public Affairs
spk_0
Officer, City Clerk and Assistant City Manager for the City of Seaside and a recycling and sustainability
spk_0
specialist for the City of Monterey.
spk_0
Leslie holds a Masters in Public Administration from California State University to make his
spk_0
skills. She's also a graduate from Harvard University Senior Executives and State and
spk_0
Local Government Program and Yale University's Women's Leadership Program.
spk_0
She has earned a credential in Harvard's Public Leadership Program and was also a social inclusion
spk_0
fellow at UC Berkeley.
spk_0
Leslie holds a Bachelor's in Political Science and Criminology from Washington State University
spk_0
and she is a Food Enthusiast, Mother of Three, wife to City Administrator, dog owner,
spk_0
marathon racer, joy seeker and Spartan finisher in no particular order.
spk_0
Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here. I'm a huge fan of your podcast and anytime
spk_0
I need an injection of Public Service Energy, I always try to tune in.
spk_0
I love that. Leslie and I got to talk a little bit before the episode and this is one of her
spk_0
go-to's to bring her joy, which is definitely one of the key parts of ELGIL's mission.
spk_0
So we appreciate that you listen to us, Leslie.
spk_0
All right, we're going to have some fun. We'll start with the lightning round to have our
spk_0
listeners get to know you better. So there's a couple questions here I have for you.
spk_0
Let's start with what is one fun fact about you?
spk_0
It's kind of a weird one, but still kind of fun. So I'm married to a City Administrator
spk_0
and our dinner conversation is always really fun. Our kids love it. We talk about setback requirements
spk_0
and zoning codes and super nerding ordinances. Yeah, absolutely. They're like, oh, again,
spk_0
but one thing that we love to do together is we do Spartan races together.
spk_0
And I don't know if you know what those are. They're like races with mud and obstacles.
spk_0
And they're marrying distances, you know, they can be half marathons or marathons, but they're very hard.
spk_0
But it's funny when we see people we know and they're like, wait, and you're covered in mud or you've just
spk_0
got to get rid of mud and you're hanging up, say, down somewhere. And they're like, wait, you do this.
spk_0
But they're really great because you realize that the end you're so excited because you're like, I can do hard things.
spk_0
I can physically do hard things and it makes you feel invincible. We go to work all the time and you're like, oh, my gosh,
spk_0
the emotional challenge and, you know, just the adaptive challenges that you have to deal with at work.
spk_0
And then you go out and do the physical challenge and you accomplish it. You're like, you feel the top of the world.
spk_0
It's so fantastic. And it sounds like a day on the job, right?
spk_0
Obstacles being in the mud, you know,
spk_0
long distances.
spk_0
Yep. Absolutely. Awesome. Awesome.
spk_0
All right. What's the last movie or TV show you watched?
spk_0
Well, this one's a little embarrassing. My 15 year old daughter.
spk_0
And it's the end of summer and so I'm letting her pick the movies.
spk_0
Last night we watched the kissing booth. And you know, they're just these cheesy teen rom coms.
spk_0
And they're just adorable. And they're like, yeah, I cry and it feels silly, but she was so mad at me.
spk_0
She's like, come on.
spk_0
I'm not going to.
spk_0
It's embarrassing to admit.
spk_0
That's okay. Our listeners will appreciate it.
spk_0
What is a book article or podcast? Do you recommend other local government professionals check out?
spk_0
Oh, okay. I've got a good one for this one.
spk_0
One thing I do every morning is I listen to or I read the morning brew.
spk_0
So there's this email newsletter that you can get and it literally takes you less time than drinking a cup of coffee.
spk_0
I love that it's called the morning brew.
spk_0
I subscribe to it because I thought it was like, you know, financial news, like all the headlines of the day.
spk_0
But really it's like such an amazing snapshot of everything that's happened.
spk_0
Like the most significant things that have happened in the last 24 hours.
spk_0
And it's so witty.
spk_0
The writers of it are just there. They're brilliant.
spk_0
And you get really hooked on, you know, they're humor.
spk_0
But it gives you the top headlines.
spk_0
It gives you financial impacts. It gives you like, you know, a little bit of the pop culture things.
spk_0
They even do some like generational comparisons or, you know, to kind of bring people along and keep you up.
spk_0
But or you can listen to the 20 minute podcast and I call them my two nerdy boyfriends.
spk_0
And they just.
spk_0
It's it's just such a great morning motivator to be like, hey, now I know what's going on in the world.
spk_0
And I've realized I can predict the trends and I've been able to say, oh, well, I see that this is happening.
spk_0
This is a technology that's coming. We might be able to use our leverage or I sounded really smart going, oh, yeah, no, I know that this, you know, earnings are coming out and this is happening.
spk_0
And it makes you look good and informed that you can also kind of stay on top of cool current trends.
spk_0
And I've been able to get some.
spk_0
That connections to services going, oh, I should look into that to see if I can help my city.
spk_0
So pretty cool morning brew morning brew you heard her first.
spk_0
All right, last question. What is one quintessential Saint Helena activity that you'd recommend others visit or try?
spk_0
Could we, you know, experience food, wine, hike city event, you name it.
spk_0
Yeah, well, we are in the world, we know Napa Valley wine region.
spk_0
So wine is it's delicious wine. It really is.
spk_0
I've been I'm currently in Italy right now and I do actually have to tell you I missed the wine in Napa Valley.
spk_0
So, but if you are not a wine fan, it's a beautiful, beautiful place to go just for just being out in nature.
spk_0
So the new Napa Valley wine trail is our I'm so incredibly excited to put a recreation trail all the way that we're in the process of building one all the way through the entirety of Napa Valley.
spk_0
And so you can bike and experience the vines not just driving, but you can go from one city to the next on your bicycle and it is beautiful.
spk_0
I encourage you to do it either sunrise or sunset. That is when the valley is the most beautiful hands down.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been on a portion of it and it's incredible. I love it. I've walked my husband runs and that that twilight hour where you know the beautiful leaves of the vines, you know, grow kind of glow, you know, red or yellow or whatever the color is of the season.
spk_0
It's beautiful. And it doesn't matter what time of year it is even when all the leaves are off the vines and the grapes are gone.
spk_0
It still has a totally different type of beauty. It is just the colors with the route and mountain backdrop.
spk_0
I think recreation trails just absolutely improve the condition of a community.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, excellent, excellent.
spk_0
Well, I hope our viewers can get to St. Holiness someday because it is a gorgeous place and Leslie was a part of that. So thank you for the lighting round.
spk_0
And we'll jump into our questions today, Leslie. So let's get started with your public service origin story. How did you find your way into local government?
spk_0
Ooh, it's an interesting question. My parents were, you know, well, what are you going to be when you grow up? You can be your quintessential doctor, lawyer, astronaut, police officer, firefighter. I had no idea.
spk_0
I public services never even on my radar, like working for a local government. I didn't even know what a planner was. And so when my future husband said he was a planner, I'm like, what do you, I don't know what that means.
spk_0
So, but I ended up with getting just this crazy opportunity. I was working for a police academy and one of the FTOs said, my wife works for the city and there's an internship opportunity open. Are you, you know, you should look into it.
spk_0
City's a good gig. If you can get it, I didn't know what I would with that meant at the time. And so I started as an intern with the city of Monterey and traffic engineering now being a crime and deviance sociology specialist, like traffic engineering.
spk_0
Why not? Because I have this, I have this life philosophy when a door opens, walk through it. You never know where that's going to take you, right. You just walk through it. And I did.
spk_0
And from the first month that I was there, I was like, this is the place. I fell in love with working for local government. And I just thought like what I, in a, I just, it was fascinating.
spk_0
It was engaging. It was this, this, I'm going to help the community that I live in directly. How, how, and you're going to pay me for it. That sounds fantastic. Right.
spk_0
So, I ended up the traffic engineering. I decided I just loved local government. So I started an applied and started to get my public administration master's degree.
spk_0
Because I really wanted to work on public policy and working as recycling and sustainability coordinator, they had an opening. I applied, I competed, I got it, it changed my life.
spk_0
I just, I absolutely loved being involved in, you know, policy. We helped co-write, you know, one of the first plastic bag bands after Santa Monica.
spk_0
One of the first polystyrene bands I worked with, you know, against the lobbyists of polystyrene community and whoa, that felt really intense.
spk_0
And then as it just, lots of other projects, but what I, you know, as things happen, government has to transition went through a recession. I've gone through multiple now. So I should name them, but I haven't yet.
spk_0
Yeah. Found myself in a city clerk's office. No one ever says they want to be a city clerk when they grow up. I've never met anybody yet to this day. Maybe there is one.
spk_0
You know, I don't think I have either. Right. No one says that.
spk_0
It's important. Such important work. But you are like front line of everything that happens in the city in the city clerk's office.
spk_0
You're working with the council and the elected, you're front line of public policy. You get to hear and see everything that's happening.
spk_0
And you get to be this liaison to the public and connect the public to government. And you're the good guy because you're like Switzerland. Right.
spk_0
The good guy or gal. And it's just, you know, I, I, so I've just continued on through that. And anytime there was ever a door that opened, I just walked through it. And that's how my career is progressed.
spk_0
And it's been 20 years and never regretted a single day.
spk_0
That's awesome. Well, we listened and in your bio a number of places you've worked for. And so you walked through a lot of doors, right. So in that context, what sorts of work have you been responsible for in the multiple roles over the years.
spk_0
And are there any particular like notable experiences that have stood out to you that have helped you learn?
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, I guess when I, when I was thinking about this ahead of time, I'm like, OK, oh my goodness, there's such a diversity of projects they've gotten to work on because I worked in agencies and the type of personality I have is if someone says, hey, we have a need.
spk_0
I just raised my hand and said, I'm interested. I want to learn. I want to help. Those are my two things. I just, I want to learn. I want to help. So I got to do. I got to manage a $5 million grant to build a youth violence prevention center and program. That was amazing.
spk_0
I got to manage munitions and ammunition cleanup on a former military base for land use planning. You know, I got to, I get to my most recent excitement was I get to manage a water and wastewater treatment, but a water treatment facility and a wastewater treatment facility and bring a membrane bio reactor online.
spk_0
I am not an engineer. I have a treatment specialist, but I can do project management and that just kind of opens up so many opportunities.
spk_0
I talked about being involved in policy. We have all these things that happen that changes. I mean, when COVID happened, we had to change policies.
spk_0
Short-term rentals. You got to develop a policy. You got to figure out how to manage that. Canapest regulations. Things just continue to change. And so those were, I mean, social media. I managed the social media and had 12 different accounts at one point and build websites and all sorts of things.
spk_0
That was a whole new world when that became, wait, cities are on social media. Wait, do we engage with our public? Do we comment? Do we not comment? Do we let, you know, just how do you, how do you adapt? And so every one of those opportunities just made me, it just reminded me that government has to be transitional and it has to be adaptive to whatever the needs of the community is.
spk_0
Right? Their boards and commissions can come and go depending on your needs, but it has to be innovative and it has to be, you know, it has to, it has to ebb and flow.
spk_0
And then it gets through all of this, just all my different projects.
spk_0
I realized the ones that were the most successful were the ones when we decided to bring people along with us, where we decided we did governing with people, not two people.
spk_0
So all my favorite projects that I worked on, you know, our census 2020 efforts, where we kind of connected everybody through the trusted messengers and we decided, hey, how do we come together as a community to do this?
spk_0
We always were so much more successful when we bring people along with us.
spk_0
And such a cool concept of trusting the experience, the lived experience and that that perspective of the community, because we, you know, we apply for these jobs, we compete for these jobs, we get these jobs and a lot of that comes with our education, our background, our knowledge, our experience.
spk_0
And there's, there's something that is so special about the community perspective and being able to use utilize that infused that.
spk_0
And like you mentioned, kind of inclusively bring them along in those processes, which is, I don't know, I just think that those are some of my favorite projects too.
spk_0
As you're talking about this, I'm like, oh, yes.
spk_0
I mean, I can talk about all the projects where we were actually just dragging the community along, kicking and screaming, we've had those two right in certain development projects.
spk_0
How about the, the arena, you know, our, our housing policy.
spk_0
Oh my goodness.
spk_0
So I'd rather do it with people.
spk_0
It's, those are the ones, I remember them pleasantly.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Well, and you have both sides, right?
spk_0
So, and I think that's the thing is that that's some of the thing that those projects that give you that aspect of hope and you're doing the right thing and it feels good and that helps fill the cup for for the days when you have to do the other type of project or, you know,
spk_0
respond to state new state law for housing and other things that, you know, California has going on right now.
spk_0
So, you know, that aspect of hope and togetherness is it goes a long way to fill the cup.
spk_0
So, I'm great.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, you know, let's go back to the city clerk concept because I, this was really interesting to me because I don't think, at least for me, I haven't had any, you know, city clerk or former city clerk guests on our on the pod.
spk_0
And so I was really curious about this because you were served in these roles in a couple of different places on that route doesn't always lead to city management.
spk_0
And so I'm curious about what skills this path helping master and what advantages this might have afforded you with the work that you do now.
spk_0
Yeah, absolutely.
spk_0
Yeah, it's definitely a non-traditional path, right?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And I can't say that just any city clerk can just jump into a city manager role.
spk_0
It really is.
spk_0
Sure.
spk_0
It takes, it takes some specific skill sets and desires, right?
spk_0
Some people really like the, I'm the front row to policy, but I don't have any responsibility for the decision because it's the easy way, right?
spk_0
Council, city managers and staff are making all the hard decisions.
spk_0
I'm just recording it in perpetuity.
spk_0
But as a city clerk and the role of the city clerk in the position of it is kind of changed a lot and we really added as a profession, we've had a lot of professionalism to it trying to educate city clerks going, these are your roles.
spk_0
Here's how not just you're not just recording, you're not just recording the events of the city, but you are managing information.
spk_0
You are an information manager and trying to make it available to the public to enhance public trust, right?
spk_0
So how can we take the thousands of records that we create, make them available, make them searchable, make them tangible and accessible to the public so that they can trust what we're doing.
spk_0
And they don't think there's this, all these behind the scenes things that they're trying to do and they put in hundreds and hundreds of PRAs to try to do the gotchas and think that, oh, your stereotypical government employees, bad and they're trying to do malicious things or hide things.
spk_0
We don't have time for that.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Right. We just don't have time for that. And so working in the last couple of cities, so I was the clerk for the city of C.
spk_0
As well as for the city of Palo Alto council appointed, I work directly for the council in Palo Alto, which was an interesting experience as well.
spk_0
But just finding different ways to help staff work smarter and provide them the resources that they need to get their job done.
spk_0
I don't think that was ever on the forefront before.
spk_0
Several last several years and then making everything available to the public to really build the trust of the organization.
spk_0
And I think those are two things like, and when you're and you have those two kind of philosophies in mind, that's really what city managers do.
spk_0
Right. Your building trust with the organ, your building trust with the community and you're trying to make your organization as efficient and effective as possible.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And then you just pay attention. You read all the documents. You understand what's going on.
spk_0
And I love sitting around the executive team table going, you're working on that project. Did you know that she's working on that project too?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I've seen these documents come through. Maybe you guys should work together.
spk_0
Did you know you're duplicating exactly what they're doing?
spk_0
Or, hey, did you, you kind of have like your pulse on everything just like a city manager needs to?
spk_0
Hey, did you see the thing on social media? Did you know that, you know, all these people are coming with a petition tonight to the council meeting?
spk_0
Hey, did you know, hey, did you know it's just this facilitator?
spk_0
And that's really kind of what administration is between the council, the community, the staff, different divisions, operations.
spk_0
So kind of was a natural live and flow for me because I just want to learn everything.
spk_0
Yeah. Well, and who knew matchmaker was a part of the job description, right?
spk_0
You two should work together.
spk_0
Absolutely.
spk_0
Absolutely.
spk_0
Other duties is a sign I'm sure.
spk_0
Yeah, for sure.
spk_0
For sure.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, and it was also interesting to me as I was learning a little bit about your background that you know, some of the times that you have spent in these rules has been in some smaller cities here in California.
spk_0
And then you've also, you know, kind of shifted to some other like Palo Alto is a little bit larger of a city.
spk_0
Can you tell us a little bit about from your perspective, what is unique or notable about the small city experience and how might that be different from the work that you've done in some of the larger cities?
spk_0
Yeah, I think that's one of the things I find so fascinating.
spk_0
So when I started in city of Monterey population about 26,000 people have 500 FTEs, a pretty sizable budget, you know, in order to accomplish all the things we need to do lots of TOT because it's a tourist based region.
spk_0
And I thought, okay, well, this is great.
spk_0
I feel it's and we serve a very specific population.
spk_0
You know, we have our residents and we have our tourists industry, but we also have military bases that we the Naval Postgraduate School International, the Naval Language Center.
spk_0
So when I moved over to CSAID, it was a larger population, larger landmass over 30,000 people, 10 square miles, but only 120 FTEs.
spk_0
So we had a quarter of the staff to accomplish more work with half the budget.
spk_0
I mean, when I talk about like, you have to be creative. You could have conferences and you steal pens because you're just so under resourced, but you know, but you, you make it work and you get creative and you have to get innovative.
spk_0
You're like, no, I can't afford that software. How can I hack the software that I currently have to make it do multiple things?
spk_0
And so I just, I enjoyed that. I think it was like a scrappy nature of the organization.
spk_0
I know a lot of cities in California are like that. And then definitely, you know, our economics go up and down some years, your flesh and other years, your cuts.
spk_0
So you have to, again, I suppose back to being adaptive. So I was doing my public leadership credential at Harvard.
spk_0
And one of the things they talk about was taking a policy policy. I'm sorry, I can't why can I think of the word intervention.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, policy intervention and then bringing it to scale. And so I thought, wow, I've worked in these cities of like 30-ish that was on people.
spk_0
And I worked with organizations between 105-meter people. What would it be like to take my successes here and try to do it at scale in a larger city with more bureaucratic, more, you know, just, just more of everything.
spk_0
So that's why I went to the city of Palo Alto. Like, well, if I can do it on a small scale, can I do it on a large scale?
spk_0
Can I take my policy interventions in my successes and make sure that they're, you know, the three pillars of a policy intervention is making yours technically correct, making sure it's politically supportable, and then making sure it's actually operationally implementable.
spk_0
So if you don't have all three of those links of the stool, your policy intervention will not be successfully got to have everything.
spk_0
And Palo Alto was bureaucracy is real.
spk_0
Okay, it is real.
spk_0
Well, things that you can do in a small city take so much more time in a large city.
spk_0
And it's, I mean, we have, we have fall under the same rules and regulations, we fall under the same transparency regulations, the same financial guidelines, but every city has learned to adapt for in specific ways.
spk_0
And every city has a different level of risk of version.
spk_0
And I found like that.
spk_0
And we don't talk about that enough sometimes.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
spk_0
And it depends on your city manager or your city attorney and the influence that they have, whether they feel comfortable enough letting you sign 10,000 or contract 25,000 or contract contract with slight risk or not.
spk_0
One of the things like I think that we need to remember is, you know, some risk is okay if the benefits outweigh the risks.
spk_0
You know, we have to say yes, there is risk.
spk_0
We will acknowledge there's risk with everything, but sometimes those benefits far outweigh that and it's a city manager's job to make that call or staff's job to make that call and to negotiate that point.
spk_0
So, um, in Palo Alto, it took me 11 months to get a 25,000 or contract through.
spk_0
Oh my goodness.
spk_0
11 months.
spk_0
It sounds like brain damage. I'm so sorry.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
It was a nightmare.
spk_0
You want to talk about bureaucratic nightmare.
spk_0
And then anytime you, you know, it's the whole bringing people along with you.
spk_0
That's how I found that I've been successful as you keep people informed.
spk_0
Anytime it changes, you circle back with them and make sure everybody is tracking and staying up with you.
spk_0
But if you have 26 different department heads and every time something changes, you have to revisit it with all 26 department heads to keep the tracking.
spk_0
It is exhausting.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's a lot of time invested in that.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And you have to make sure that you invest in your relationships with people.
spk_0
spk_0
And I mean, you can ask people for things.
spk_0
I think that's one of the things we love about working in local government is.
spk_0
Well, the majority of us we really do care about our job.
spk_0
We're not just there for the money.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So having the relationship with people and when you need something, they understand how important it is to you.
spk_0
And you understand what their authority is.
spk_0
You know, what their plate is holding.
spk_0
So I mean, if you don't develop those relationships with people, you just continually ask for things and get frustrated why they don't respond.
spk_0
Like, well, they have 35 other things they're working on.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
That are on fire right now.
spk_0
No, literally, it could be on fire.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So my house is right outside the is my house is in city of Calisoga.
spk_0
And it's right outside the fire zone right now for the company.
spk_0
And so, you know, literally my water treatment plan is in the evacuation zone.
spk_0
It could be on fire right now.
spk_0
You know, I got to give people grace.
spk_0
So anyway, that's about relationships.
spk_0
But then so working for the city of St. Helena going back to size.
spk_0
I mean, it's just, you know, the things that I'm going to do is.
spk_0
6,000 people.
spk_0
Still 120 FT is the same amount of I had in seaside.
spk_0
Like three square miles.
spk_0
And I've got a budget that's bigger than the whole city of seaside.
spk_0
So I have a lot of money.
spk_0
I've got a small population.
spk_0
And, but.
spk_0
No, it's it's still an unyielding level of work.
spk_0
Because every city.
spk_0
So the four cities.
spk_0
We're all local government same rules and regulations.
spk_0
But we cater to our populations differently and we have to.
spk_0
Their needs.
spk_0
Their desires.
spk_0
Their wants.
spk_0
Their wishes.
spk_0
Their dreams.
spk_0
They're all.
spk_0
They're they're they're all different.
spk_0
And if you just say, oh, it's a rubber stamp.
spk_0
You know, I did this in one city.
spk_0
I can do it in another.
spk_0
That's probably my biggest lesson I ever learned was.
spk_0
You can't do things the same.
spk_0
They do not work.
spk_0
You have to make them adaptive.
spk_0
And I know some people, you know, they say that you have to use an evidence-based solution.
spk_0
Yes, but what happens in Stockton is not the same as what can happen in San Francisco or in tiny little St. Helena.
spk_0
They're different.
spk_0
Different pieces of the puzzle.
spk_0
They don't fit together.
spk_0
You have to mold them.
spk_0
And you have to make them work.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, and the lessons that you can take from the way that you did it before in that place are still very valuable.
spk_0
If you then, you know, to your point can make them valuable to the new location or new expectations of a community.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Expectations of a community.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Excellent.
spk_0
Excellent word.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
That's the thing that, you know, when we get up every day and spring out of bed to go to our local government job shows up with us every time.
spk_0
Yes, it does.
spk_0
Managing expectations.
spk_0
That's the term I think I'm known for in St Helena now.
spk_0
Like we have to manage expectations internally as well as externally.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, let's talk a little bit about St Helena.
spk_0
So, you know, I live in California.
spk_0
And when you live here, I feel like you have an incredible privilege to be able to see the entirety of the state through travel and that sort of thing.
spk_0
Because our state is, you know, gigantic comparatively to the same, you know, footprint on the East Coast, you traverse multiple states, right?
spk_0
So we have a lot going on in California.
spk_0
But St Helena is located about 60 miles or so north of San Francisco.
spk_0
It's no verbito culture.
spk_0
It's got a culinary scene with famous vineyards and wineries.
spk_0
The culinary institute of America at Greystone is there, which is incredible.
spk_0
And it really has a strong historic character.
spk_0
And I know there's multiple blocks in St Helena's downtown that are listed as National Historic District on the National Register.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So these really beautiful, quintessential old California cities.
spk_0
It's got a beautiful square.
spk_0
Tell our listeners a little bit about St Helena and how the city provides service in this community with expectations.
spk_0
Absolutely.
spk_0
And there is no lacking of expectations.
spk_0
So you have to understand, you know, how to provide services to your community.
spk_0
You really have to understand who, who it is and what do they want.
spk_0
We have a population at the demographic.
spk_0
They are an older population.
spk_0
If you look at the demographics, they are one of the oldest populations of in California.
spk_0
And most of the West Coast just by age.
spk_0
But they are very well educated.
spk_0
We have a highly educated population.
spk_0
We have a highly successful population financially as well as professionally.
spk_0
And a lot of them because they've been successful in their lives.
spk_0
And they've chosen to settle down or they've been from St Helena.
spk_0
Now they are all retired.
spk_0
They all have a lot of free time on their hands.
spk_0
But they have high expectations about the services that we provide to them.
spk_0
And how we provide services.
spk_0
And so when I came to St Helena, one of the things that you know our city manager said is like,
spk_0
we need to work smarter.
spk_0
We need to operationalize and digitally enhance our digital assets and services.
spk_0
And so we started, okay, let's get a new website.
spk_0
Let's do online permitting.
spk_0
Let's do this digital and this digital and this digital.
spk_0
And then we were wondering, well, doesn't the community see?
spk_0
Don't they see all these improvements for making?
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
I remember our demographic is a lot older and older people don't necessarily like technology the same way that younger people do.
spk_0
And so no, they weren't seeing it because they still want to come to City Hall.
spk_0
And they still want to talk to a person or they want us to come to their house.
spk_0
Or if they call, they still want to direct human.
spk_0
You can't automate a phone tree.
spk_0
They will.
spk_0
They were going to come down to pitch forks and torches.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So, yeah, so you know, it's an ebb and flow of we want to advance and provide the most efficient services, you know, using taxpayer money at the most cost effective way.
spk_0
But at the same time, we have to recognize what our population wanted.
spk_0
And so we kind of pulled back on some of the outward facing digital initiatives so we could maintain that human connection in touch.
spk_0
I call them a high touch community.
spk_0
Right. They have high expectations and they want personal connection.
spk_0
They want to know about your kid how their first day of school was.
spk_0
They want to see you at the grocery store.
spk_0
They want you to come to their house even though the tree is on private property and then say, hey, what do you think I should do about this tree?
spk_0
Just, you know, and they want that connection.
spk_0
And so that's different than ways we've done it in other cities.
spk_0
These are if you're in a larger community, city of Palo Alto, I was on the seventh floor.
spk_0
I rarely ever saw members of the community unless they came to a public meeting.
spk_0
Sure.
spk_0
And that's one of the reasons why I left.
spk_0
I wanted connection with the humans I want to help.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So, I just, that was really fascinating for me.
spk_0
It took me about a year to recognize they weren't appreciative of all these changes we were trying to make.
spk_0
Because those weren't the changes that they wanted.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
They didn't see how it enhanced their services because they felt like they were losing.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
They thought they were losing service when we were just trying to be more efficient.
spk_0
Isn't that interesting?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
One anticipated consequence.
spk_0
Right. Right.
spk_0
And thinking about the, we were talking about earlier about the perspective of the community.
spk_0
That that was their perspective that they're losing out on something or something that they have have long relied on.
spk_0
Is going away and that connection becomes elusive.
spk_0
And that's also probably, you know, not to, to generalize, but also probably embedded in an older generation who, you know, when things change and change can be uncomfortable or hard to navigate.
spk_0
You know, that they want that person that helper that friendly face, you know, there.
spk_0
And I think that's a very interesting thing to think about as we get older in our goals and local government.
spk_0
And what even we are going to want, you know, at the, at the age that, that your population is.
spk_0
Because it's, it's, we grew up with different technology than perhaps, you know, say my parents, my grandparents did, right.
spk_0
And thinking about what that is going to look like as it manifests that those changes over time.
spk_0
And how you can still, you know, engage with those communities, meet, hopefully meet their expectations and understand their position and why things are important to them.
spk_0
And how do you build that into, you know, the very form of bureaucracy and process of a city, right.
spk_0
Absolutely, but we can't leave other people behind.
spk_0
So even though we only have maybe 10% young people, I still have to cater to those young people.
spk_0
You still have to.
spk_0
So you still, even though the majority of your citizens want one thing, you still need to make sure you're not leaving anyone behind.
spk_0
So while the older people might go, we didn't need a new website.
spk_0
You're actually, there is a portion of our population that did.
spk_0
And do want these services and they want access to a 247 digital city health system.
spk_0
And that's okay.
spk_0
We can try to have it all.
spk_0
Why not.
spk_0
And in particular, in these spaces where like not leaving behind, you know, certain portions of the population, you know, is where is their overlap.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
And I've seen this in a couple of places, you know, in my in my past roles, you know, like planning parks, for example.
spk_0
Often the same thing that the youth want the elders want to, right.
spk_0
They want a safe, well lit space, right.
spk_0
And it's so funny to see how some of those, those needs and wants, even if they manifest a little bit differently, are very much timeless regardless of population and regardless of age or, you know, generational differences and things like that.
spk_0
Agreed, agreed.
spk_0
It's just great when you can get into a space where they can tell you what they want.
spk_0
spk_0
And we ask, this is one of probably the hardest things that I haven't quite resolved in my whole career, is we reach out to the community and ask for their input.
spk_0
But they're busy living their lives.
spk_0
And then when something happens, they're like, why didn't I know?
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Well, you know, I had 16 public hearings on it, I mailed things to your house.
spk_0
We, you know, we had it on the newspaper, we had it on the TV, but you didn't notice.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
So I want them to all have the ability to contribute.
spk_0
Because when they do, then they feel like, nacktion, it's great.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Reach out to people in the way that they absorb information seems to be growing more challenging than being resolved.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah, I can do that.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, one of the cool things that I think St. Helena has done to try and get after this kind of crux of this question is the city's community academy.
spk_0
Let's talk a little bit about this because I think this is a really cool example.
spk_0
So this is a six week program designed to help residents understand city operations through kind of a behind the scenes, you know, view where they're there's a little VIP.
spk_0
There's a little bit behind the scenes.
spk_0
Tell me a little bit about what inspired this initiative and how have participants responded to these experiences.
spk_0
Yeah, for sure.
spk_0
This has been, you know, it was some work to get up and running, but actually has been really easy after you've got the foundation set.
spk_0
And it's just continuing to re benefit.
spk_0
So six weeks open to anybody.
spk_0
You know, there was lots of conversations.
spk_0
Should it just be residents?
spk_0
No, we have business owners here too, but don't live here.
spk_0
We have staff members who would love to be.
spk_0
You know, we've got other community members who might be interested.
spk_0
So we left it open.
spk_0
Anyone can come six weeks hour and a half on a Wednesday night.
spk_0
And every night talks about a different topic.
spk_0
And you get like, it's stemmed from a community survey that we had where the results were not glowing about the city.
spk_0
It was you, there's no transparency.
spk_0
Do you feel is there a trusting government?
spk_0
Very low score on that one.
spk_0
And you know, do you believe that resources are allocated efficiently?
spk_0
Very low score on that one.
spk_0
And just I was like, I just didn't believe that could be the case.
spk_0
A lot of it is just they just didn't know when you hear some of the public comments at council meetings or if you read next door and they're like, I don't understand why they're wasting.
spk_0
You're like, well, if you don't understand, I want to give you a venue to ask the question so you understand.
spk_0
Yeah, some people don't like the whole public commenting process because it's not interactive.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
They asked their question, maybe it gets answered, maybe not, but there's not enough time to give them context to the whole process and the hate this term, but it's really, really visible.
spk_0
The sausage making right.
spk_0
It happens behind the scenes.
spk_0
They say it's a fully baked item when it comes to the council meeting.
spk_0
Why should I bother to participate?
spk_0
And so like, let's give people the behind the curtains look.
spk_0
Not only will we tell you how it works, but here are the regulations that we have to abide by.
spk_0
Here are the rules, the procedures, the policies, the ordinances, the histories.
spk_0
And then on top of that, let's throw in the brown act, let's throw in the public records act, let's throw in, then we'll throw in all industry standards, like the building code.
spk_0
And you know, we're going to the state and the local, I mean, all the different ways that government has been designed.
spk_0
It was never designed to be efficient.
spk_0
It was designed to be transparent, right?
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
And say, it's a feature, not a bug.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
And so when you just kind of go, I just, I loved the Academy program, our first class was like 25 people.
spk_0
And they were like, but why don't we?
spk_0
And you're like, well, let me tell you why.
spk_0
And they're like, oh, I didn't know that.
spk_0
And you can see it within the first three weeks.
spk_0
It went from a hostile environment to then one of curiosity.
spk_0
And that was my ask at the beginning.
spk_0
I said, you think you know, just have an open mind.
spk_0
If you have a question, just be curious.
spk_0
Just be curious.
spk_0
We are here.
spk_0
We want to give you a face-to-face connection with the staff members so that you can develop a relationship.
spk_0
So you know who to call if you have a question in the future, or if you see something online, that you want to know the real truth of.
spk_0
You have their phone number, you have their email, you've developed a relationship and you can, you know, reach out to questions.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So the best part about this program was, and I took surveys after every session at the very end.
spk_0
I said, what was your biggest takeaway from this Academy program?
spk_0
And the comment that came more than any others, I think almost every respondent said,
spk_0
we have highly professional, very skilled, very educated and trained staff members.
spk_0
And I was surprised by that.
spk_0
Nice.
spk_0
They just, they just, just listening to our directors or our speakers talk.
spk_0
It built such trust because, you know, on social media, they're like, oh, these people are underqualified.
spk_0
And they would say negative things.
spk_0
And at the end, they were so impressed at the quality and caliber of our employees.
spk_0
That was probably our biggest takeaway.
spk_0
That's awesome.
spk_0
Well, I'm one of these folks are real people right at the end of the day.
spk_0
Not just some bureaucratic robot that, you know, it's behind a permit desk.
spk_0
They might, they might do that too, but they're not bureaucratic robots, right? Like there's a whole reason behind the why.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
The why is huge.
spk_0
And just, I mean, again, I, and I've done a program similar to this in another city where it's just humanizing it makes, makes a huge difference.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You know, you can sit behind a computer and say all sorts of things when you really connect them to the person.
spk_0
We're all going to sit by the person who comments on next door.
spk_0
Hey, how's your garden?
spk_0
I saw that your, you know, your tree's blooming.
spk_0
It's beautiful.
spk_0
Change is that conversation.
spk_0
It does.
spk_0
Well, it harkens back to one of my, you know, favorite accidental leadership television shows, Ted Lasse.
spk_0
Oh, yes.
spk_0
Right? Be curious.
spk_0
Love that.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
That was an amazing show just at the time we needed it.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Who knew that was right before leadership lessons and local government, but that was one of my favorites about being curious and not judgmental.
spk_0
And I, you know, it takes so much energy to have rage and be angry at bureaucracy.
spk_0
And it's, you know, if you can, can reorient that energy into, you know, productive conversations and, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to.
spk_0
To agree, but you can understand, right?
spk_0
Those spaces are so much more productive for the entirety of the community and allows for, you know, say you or others in these leadership positions department directors would have you.
spk_0
You know, be in the space where they can actually utilize their professional energy toward making the community better as well, because they're not caught up with trying to placate or.
spk_0
You know, listen to or just tolerate somebody with that, that kind of anger and rage of bureaucracy.
spk_0
So I think that's when, when both sides kind of realize that.
spk_0
And this is such a cool program because it gives you that space to be able to have those conversations. So well done.
spk_0
Thank you.
spk_0
Yeah, I think there's probably one of the most frustrating things on a staff level is the, I guess the regression of civility that's been happening.
spk_0
You know, in our public meetings are online and it's very difficult for people emotionally.
spk_0
And so how can we, I just, I haven't found the solution yet, but we've got to come up with some social engineering to help re-install regulations on civility and how we treat people again.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So yeah.
spk_0
One thing that we did ask the one ask at the very end of the program the last night was if you're interested in, you know, furthering, you know, this is how you can help your community, you know, you can volunteer to an organization, you can volunteer to board a commission, you can do this, you can do that.
spk_0
But if our only ask of you is now that we've shared this information with you, if you see someone else sharing misinformation, please be an advocate and correct them.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You know, peer-to-peer citizen to citizen so that we don't continue to allow, you know, because what you allow, you can don't.
spk_0
We don't want to continue to allow people to treat people badly based on misinformation.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, that's such a cool program that I've seen kind of coming out of St. Helena.
spk_0
And there's probably a lot of other things that are out there.
spk_0
Are there a few other projects or initiatives you and your team have worked on in St. Helena that you're particularly proud of?
spk_0
Do shout out to the team.
spk_0
Well, I love giving shout outs to my team because we are strong and we are tiny, but we are mighty.
spk_0
I mean, just through the amount of work that we tend to go through, we have an $80 million capital improvement budget, five year CIP.
spk_0
And for a town that's our size with our budget size, it's huge.
spk_0
It's the underinvestment in our utilities, our water and our wastewater infrastructure has been palpable, which has led to,
spk_0
oh, if you if you only read the news, I hope you don't, they don't look up discolored water in St. Helena.
spk_0
They just, you know, under under management of resources.
spk_0
You have you will, it will catch up to you one day.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So continuously be proactive.
spk_0
I mean, that we just we just launched our wastewater treatment plant membrane by a reactor facility I talked about before.
spk_0
Yeah, step forward for a six, the city of 6000 people have their own water and wastewater treatment systems.
spk_0
So this is cutting edge technology.
spk_0
We were able to get a lot of grants to do this project, but we wanted to make sure that we protected the Nepper River and the ecosystem and all the cities downstream from it.
spk_0
So that I just, you know, small team, three people work at our wastewater treatment plant plus our small engineering staff and our public works teams.
spk_0
It's just not many people to do huge projects.
spk_0
Some of the other, you know, we've done it over the last year.
spk_0
I really pushed my parks team really hard and we did six park rehabilitation.
spk_0
I mean, as, as you know, I mean, people are very particular and protective of their parks were protective of water and trees, right?
spk_0
Water, trees and parks.
spk_0
And I think that was a huge success for us because like I told you that community survey had terrible, terrible remarks.
spk_0
And then this year's survey on our, it moved the dial on the community perspective, whether you think that the city is efficiently operating.
spk_0
We were about 12 percentage points from the last survey.
spk_0
And like, whoa, that's amazing.
spk_0
I just felt like doing projects that are visible to the public that they are interested in can really help.
spk_0
You know, and then it was just connecting with people calling them back in a timely manner, responding to their email, even though you have so, you know, 35 meetings in one day.
spk_0
That was the one that helped, helped us.
spk_0
I think it's just some of those really visible projects and tackling projects that were on the books for 15, 20 years.
spk_0
Sure.
spk_0
Making progress on them.
spk_0
You know, building, I know the surprise, building a new intake tower in our reservoir.
spk_0
That was it on the books for 15 years.
spk_0
We have one resident who was very, very, very interested in it and brings it up at every meeting.
spk_0
So there's always the one.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You know, you're, I call them our professional citizens, right?
spk_0
spk_0
And they have their, their, their interests.
spk_0
And sometimes it's okay to try to give them a win and get them turning, turning an enemy into an advocate.
spk_0
That's always like one of my goals.
spk_0
So I want to figure out how to turn our enemies into our advocates.
spk_0
So through these projects, I just felt like 12% on a community satisfaction survey was a huge jump.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, and that, and I think there's, there's, you've talked about this kind of a through line in our conversation today about this public trust.
spk_0
But that, you know, you asked questions that maybe you didn't really love the answers because of what you were telling you.
spk_0
And that, but it's also a learning moment, right?
spk_0
It's an opportunity for your city, you know, you, your city manager, your staff to take that data and be able to do something with it, right?
spk_0
And I think that's part of why a, why a jump or something may happen in that context because you can say, oh, we took this data and we actually listened to what you had to say.
spk_0
And, you know, it may not have been something we were prepared here, but we took it seriously.
spk_0
We did something with it.
spk_0
You know, we, we were able to move forward on something.
spk_0
And here's what we did with it.
spk_0
And you should know about this.
spk_0
And, or, you know, if it's a park thing, here's this very visible thing that we did.
spk_0
We heard you, right?
spk_0
And I, I think there's a lot of value in some of those, those data points, regardless of its community survey or other ways cities communicate with their, their population is to be able to say, look, we heard you and we did something with it.
spk_0
Half the time, that's just what people want is to be heard, right?
spk_0
And it may not be the thing that they love, but I mean, who, who doesn't love a new park, right?
spk_0
So, agreed, agreed.
spk_0
And I completely agree with you.
spk_0
They want to be heard and they want to know that you've done something with it.
spk_0
Some of the challenges I've experienced in every city and being a recovering, I call it a recovering city clerk.
spk_0
And, you know, using the data that you have and learning from it, using data informed decision making, or if you're not collecting the data, start collecting it.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yeah, start collecting it.
spk_0
There's so many different data points that we weren't collecting that were so impactful. And you're like, wow, when you look at the trend, wow, there's my problem right there.
spk_0
And it's been staring me in the face had I only been paying attention and collecting the data.
spk_0
So data informed decision making, another success like we did a survey and internal survey as well.
spk_0
One had been done five years before and I did when the first year I was there and then I did another one this year.
spk_0
And just in the last 18 months, like even internally our intern because we also focus, we wanted to make sure that we supported our staff as well.
spk_0
It's understood what are your pain points like a lot of cities in California.
spk_0
We're having a hard time recruiting.
spk_0
We're having an exceptionally hard time recruiting because our cost of living is one of the highest in the state.
spk_0
And I mean, Napa Valley seems so close.
spk_0
We don't like the majority and I did a heat map over all of our staff live.
spk_0
The majority of people live 45 minutes or more away.
spk_0
We have some people who are community in two and three hours a day.
spk_0
And I mean, all of our, all of my public works on call staff, we had to change our policy to do a one hour response time of a 20 minute response time because nobody can afford to live within 20 minutes of the city.
spk_0
Yeah, we only have two staff hours who live in the city.
spk_0
And so that was understanding that through the employee survey was like, well, what do we need to do?
spk_0
What do we need to do to make sure that this place is responsive to the needs of our staff that creates a workspace where they're willing to commute one to three hours and still find it worth their while because our wages.
spk_0
We're a city of 6,000 people. We can't pay incredibly high wages. We don't have a lot of taxes.
spk_0
So staying competitive, making to our employees are happy and somehow trying to find a way to build housing.
spk_0
Yeah, you know, subsidizing it, using housing funds, having, you know, developers pay.
spk_0
I mean, there's so many different opportunities.
spk_0
Sure. Right now I'm trying to do modular housing for my chief water treatment plant operator and my chief wastewater treatment plan operator.
spk_0
So that is easiest people think even on city on land, just making affordable housing.
spk_0
Oh, my goodness. But it's something that we have to do because every city is struggling with this.
spk_0
And our communities, our residents, I don't know if it's like this for you, but our citizens are like, we don't live here. See, I must not care.
spk_0
I care. We care. Yes.
spk_0
That is a crazy misdomer.
spk_0
It really is. Well, and in the in the words of the famous Leslie note, like I care.
spk_0
I care. It's kind of my thing. Right?
spk_0
That's why we're here in these roles.
spk_0
My favorite Leslie no one was when people are yelling at me, I just feel they're carrying very loudly. Right?
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's the thing about, you know, communities that it's expensive to live in or there's scarcity of housing or what have you is that it starts to impact the ability to meet community expectations to be able to do the basic functions of these jobs.
spk_0
And so, you know, St. Helena or others are in a really unique position to get creative around some of these ideas.
spk_0
And I'm not sure any of them have quite correct the code just yet, but you know, being mindful of that, you know, using data from your staff, like all of that is incredible.
spk_0
Because, you know, whether it's through your citizens academy where they realize that like these are real humans and they care and they want to be here.
spk_0
Also, having a way to facilitate that in a meaningful way to help the services to the community, it's all intertwined.
spk_0
And absolutely is. Yeah, yeah, excellent. Well, Leslie, this has been such a lovely chat.
spk_0
And as we wrap things up today, tell us what's next for you. What are some special or interesting things you're working on that our listeners should look out for?
spk_0
Hmm, I just, what are my former city managers and I always said, as long as I'm providing value, I'm going to stick around.
spk_0
And every day I feel like I get to provide value on something. I'm excited for my housing project to be able to provide some affordable housing for my, some Saturdays housing for my staff members.
spk_0
I'm excited to do a lot of the infrastructure improvements and put our record breaking five year CIP into play and get some of those projects to the finish line.
spk_0
And we also launched a transparency portal so the public can follow along with us to see where we are.
spk_0
You know, how much of the money have we spent? Where are we out in the project? Is it delayed? Is it not? So they can, we can bring them along with us.
spk_0
Yeah, I had another project.
spk_0
I'm just more park rehabilitation. The next community academy launches in next month.
spk_0
So recruiting now and I'm excited for what every class is a little bit different and you come away with different feelings and expectations and ideas.
spk_0
And then you can motivate those newly, you know, energized citizens into community action.
spk_0
I've seen a couple nonprofits pop up because of our community academy.
spk_0
Maybe these because they're like where government because I tried to use the message that where government stops.
spk_0
This is where the community needs to pick it up. This is where nonprofits pick up, you know, and then we have to work together.
spk_0
So, right, I'm excited to see what kinds of things pop up after this next community academy and I'd be happy to share with you.
spk_0
Excellent. Oh, I'm so excited about that. Well, I hope it goes well.
spk_0
And so last question here for today, if you could be the Gov. Love DJ, what song would you pick as the exit music for this episode?
spk_0
Oh, I, there's one song immediately that came to my mind because it's kind of my, my, my life mantra. It's best day of my life by American authors.
spk_0
Yep, just because I want every day, I want to be like, it's going to be the best day of my life.
spk_0
That's why I feel like, I feel like I go to work like that every day. You know, I don't get the Sunday blues.
spk_0
I don't know, I'm going to work tomorrow. Every morning, I'm like excited to go to work and make it my best day ever.
spk_0
So it just, that's what I would put it's my 90 day exit. Very nice. Well, you know, you and I have just met.
spk_0
But I can, I can visualize you like skipping to that song across San Helena Square. Like I love that.
spk_0
I've done my job. And yes, I do, I do skip.
spk_0
So, very good. Awesome. Well, that insert of the episode for today. A big thanks to Leslie for joining the podcast.
spk_0
Thanks so much for having me.
spk_0
Great.
spk_0
Thank you.
Topics Covered
Guglev podcast
local government
Engaging Local Government Leaders
public administration
Napa Valley wine region
recycling and sustainability
city clerk
professional development
Camp Guglev
Leslie Milton
public service
community engagement
policy development
water treatment facility
youth violence prevention