War of the Ninepenny Kings (5th Blackfyre Rebellion)

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 In 258 on Essos, another challenge rose to Egg on's rain when

spk_0 9 outlaws, exiles, pirates, and cell-sword captains met in the disputed lands beneath the

spk_0 tree of crowds to form and unholy alliance. The band of 9 swore their oath of mutual aid and

spk_0 support in carving out kingdoms for each of their members. Among them was the last Black Fire,

spk_0 Mei-Lisa monstrous, who had command of the Golden Company, and the Kingdom they pledged to win

spk_0 for him was the Seven Kingdoms. Prince Duncan, when told of the pact, famously remarked that

spk_0 crowds were being sold 9-a-penny. Thereafter, the band of 9 became known as the 9-penny kings in

spk_0 West Rose. It was thought at first that the free cities of Essos would surely bring their power

spk_0 against them and put an end to their pretensions, but nonetheless, preparations were made

spk_0 should Mei-Lisa and his allies turn on the Seven Kingdoms.

spk_0 Yeah, welcome back my fellow Westoreans. That is a great quote to start this fun episode off

spk_0 about Mei-Lisa monstrous and the 9-penny kings in the band of 9. When Sept and Maribald gave his

spk_0 famous broken man speech, one of the more memorable and moving passages in the entire series of books,

spk_0 this was the war he was talking about. Of course, he was speaking of war in general, but he himself

spk_0 fought in the war of 9-penny kings, and it's the one that he remembers most clearly, most personal.

spk_0 I think it's fair to say Robert Trebellion was a war that did a lot to define the lives of the

spk_0 men and women who came of age roughly 20 years before a song of ice and fire started. The war that

spk_0 defined their fathers and mothers generation, however, if any did, was the war of 9-penny kings.

spk_0 Like Robert Trebellion, there are huge gaps in our knowledge of what actually transpired during it,

spk_0 but we know quite a lot, and the world we're given is so well defined that we can extrapolate

spk_0 quite a bit more too. Fire and blood too is a long way away, maybe a long, long way away,

spk_0 but that's when we could expect to fill the rest of those gaps, at least some of them,

spk_0 but there's a good chance we get quite a bit more in detail in the wins of winner too.

spk_0 After all, we have a John Cunnington as POV and the Golden Company are heavily involved in the plot,

spk_0 and more. The dance of the dragons and the Black Firebellions are both full of foreshadowing

spk_0 for the plot lines of young Griff and John Snow, thus Daenerys as well, and thus Illyria and Varys

spk_0 and John Cunnington and Tyrion and so many others. On top of that, Rob's will hangs over the story

spk_0 still, and when that plot line issue was first introduced in a storm of swords,

spk_0 it was also the introduction of the Black Fires. The first mention is by Stanis I.E. a guy from

spk_0 a house also founded by a particularly prominent Targaryen bastard by the name of Oris Baratheon.

spk_0 To be clear, elements of the Black Fires were introduced right away. In a game of thrones,

spk_0 we get the story of Egon the Unworthy, his brother Aemon the Dragon Knight, their sister Neri's,

spk_0 and the dispute over Dairon the Good's heritage. Bloodraven is obviously present from the

spk_0 get-go as well, even if his name isn't. But it wasn't fully fleshed out. The name Black Fire hadn't

spk_0 been conceived when a game of thrones was published. Point being that Black Fires being tied to

spk_0 Rob's will and young Griff, etc. means that they are still lessened untold from that era that could

spk_0 provide groundwork for a song of Ice and Fire. Now, after Rob's will and the tie-ins to the earlier

spk_0 plot lines like Aemon the Dragon Knight and Bloodraven, Black Fire related history starts pop it up semi-regulated.

spk_0 Both in a song of Ice Fire, such as the possibility young Griff himself is of Black Fire and sent,

spk_0 and or that Elyrio may have Black Fire the sword itself. The dance with dragons has the most Black

spk_0 Fire stuff of any of the five a song of Ice and Fire novels and it surrounds plot lines that are

spk_0 yet to be resolved. Meaning it's very likely George R. Martin will include more Black Fire lore

spk_0 in the Winds of Winter, not just Fire and Blood too. If we're right about that then it's good for

spk_0 us all to be well aware of the most recent Black Fire activity, which was only like I said about 20

spk_0 years before Robert Rebellion. Heck, a current POV character slew may lease the monstrous in single

spk_0 combat and it would all it would take is for that character, Barisden the Bold, to think about that

spk_0 for a few minutes to give us a fantastic mini story within the greater story. Like two paragraphs

spk_0 of memory from Barisden who would do a lot right there. Other non-POV characters are possibilities

spk_0 too. The Black Fish fought in the War of Nine Penny Kings. For example, Stannis's father Stefan

spk_0 died in the shipwreck but he fought in this war and his father, meaning Stannis's grandfather,

spk_0 Lord Ormond, was named Commander of the Westerosy Armors. So when the Black Fire plot peaks,

spk_0 which might be in the Winds of Winter, we'll know what we're dealing with as well as anyone in

spk_0 this fandom. Many people out there not listening to this episode will read more about Maylees and

spk_0 the other Nine Penny Kings and think, that's cool. They'll have a great time with it. That's a credit

spk_0 to George because with even without a deep dive it's fun. But you'll read it and it'll hit so

spk_0 much harder because you'll know so much more. Learning the rest of what there is to know about these

spk_0 characters will pay off. But there are great stories here all on their own as well. Not only do we

spk_0 have a cast of little known characters that will flesh out but there's quite a bit of action from

spk_0 their characters in their younger days. In addition to Barisden the Bald, Black Fish, Stannis's

spk_0 Grand Sire, Lord Ormond, this episode will include the White Bull Gerald High Tower,

spk_0 poster Tully and his friendship with a certain Lord Balish, Tywin and Kevin Lannister,

spk_0 the Red Lion Roger of House Rain Prince Aries, not so mad back then.

spk_0 Aegon the unlikely aka egg, Kellon Greyjoy, the father of Balon, Yuron,

spk_0 Victine and Heron, and of course, Sept and Maribald. So greetings everybody.

spk_0 With me as always is a Shay up handling all the different tasks behind the scenes. We actually

spk_0 have worked things out so the cheek and speak during our guest episodes. At last we had to work

spk_0 around some technology. Some of y'all may not be aware that Google Hangouts is no longer a thing and

spk_0 we've been moving around trying to figure out new setups outside of Google Hangouts and well

spk_0 it hasn't been easy. But also I want to welcome with that in mind with this technology in mind all

spk_0 these challenges are returning guests Steven Atwell of Race for the Iron Throne. Welcome back Steven.

spk_0 Hey it's great to be here. Right on. So let's talk about real quickly what you've been up to.

spk_0 It's been a little while since you've been on and you've probably done well I know you've done

spk_0 lots of things since then. So why don't you let everybody know people who maybe haven't

spk_0 keeping up the close as they should or who haven't paid attention the last week or two. Let

spk_0 them know what you're doing. Sure. So most recently I hit the 50% mark in Storm of Swords.

spk_0 That's a brand three, the you know Queens Crown and the you know Hodor stop-podering.

spk_0 I just finished John Thive which is where he escapes from the rating party.

spk_0 And that is actually available for my patrons right now and it'll be up for everyone else tomorrow.

spk_0 And in other stuff you know now that I like I don't know I got a first of inspiration with

spk_0 but I'm looking to do some like more thematic essays for a while just you know take a

spk_0 bit of a break from just doing nothing but Storm of Swords. So I want to write about Dunkin' Egg

spk_0 which is obviously relevant to the word Nightbend Kings and I have a couple other projects

spk_0 like that find out. Cool sounds really good yeah you're always staying super busy and putting

spk_0 out lots of good content. It's similar for us we've just gotten through Clash of Kings so it's

spk_0 nice for us to do something a little different because we've been deep in our reread over here as well

spk_0 and this is nice for a change pace and it's how that we've been wanting to do for a while and we've

spk_0 known for a while that it would be you that we did it with we've been talking about this for a long time.

spk_0 So a couple of shout outs for us and a quick announcement or two before we get going and then well

spk_0 we get going. Thanks to History of Westros whose first sword Jeff Narlie the long snapper

spk_0 and thanks also to Tulaneis the Talon King of Gagasos, Rider of Tularius the Red Dragon with

spk_0 Scales horns and talons of Midnight Black. You can support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash

spk_0 history of Westros you can find a variety of levels and benefits and things that you that suit you.

spk_0 Things like episodes early and shout outs and access to our scripts are included as possibilities.

spk_0 Thank you to Tommy Papis who is one of our patrons who sent a very generous super chat saying in your

spk_0 best German accent is it now the war of 999 Penny Kings. It's like what does that show we should

spk_0 do a mashup it's that Brooklyn 999 Penny Kings or something like that yeah 99 Luft Penny Kings.

spk_0 Yeah something like that. A lot of that stuff I said at the beginning was my own thoughts but I

spk_0 wanted to get you to weigh in on some of that as we get started to even do you agree with my take that

spk_0 T. Wow will be fairly heavily black fire as far as as far as whatever heavy black fire means but

spk_0 what weigh in on that I'm curious what you think about sure so I mean you've already kind of identified

spk_0 some of the most obvious suspects right Cerberistan John Connington young Griff all of that I definitely

spk_0 think that's right I think there's some other possibilities as well right Peter Baylor is very

spk_0 much part of Sansa's story you know it's possible that you know for it arrives at the golden company

spk_0 landing in the storm lands that like he might have something to say about his father

spk_0 we hasn't really talked about that much he hasn't that's true you know it's funny it's like in a series

spk_0 where like so many people are absolutely consumed by like daddy issues he's got pathologies of his

spk_0 own that doesn't seem to be hugely one of them and yeah I mean Tyrion chapters as you said

spk_0 another good another good possibility yeah he has that dream about looking kind of like Maley's

spk_0 himself has the head yes yeah and the the one that's laughing and the one that's crying yeah

spk_0 just a hell of an image yeah right that's bizarre like it's is that magical is that predictive is

spk_0 that just him thinking about it it's one of those things we can't really yeah is it a metaphor

spk_0 whole so yeah so I think yeah we're probably going to see a good bit of Black Fire stuff and the golden

spk_0 company I guess the question is like depending on when we think Daenerys gets to Westros in the

spk_0 Windsor that's a big question is it the very end of the book is it halfway through the book

spk_0 actually like towards the end because she's still it she's not even gotten to base no threat yet

spk_0 you know and she's probably headed there you know it depends on how it depends on how many chapters

spk_0 right if this is like you know because at times we've had like only you know four or five Daenerys

spk_0 chapters in the book and in other times you have more like thirteen so depending on how many

spk_0 chapters you know there are there are to work with I think that determines how much both sort of

spk_0 screen time and sort of distance she can travel without it seeming like the sort of like late season

spk_0 H.O. a little finger virus is like how did he get there so yeah okay good point yeah so let's say

spk_0 I said at the beginning of this episode this episode I've been calling it this episode but as we

spk_0 were working on this we realized that we have enough in from enough material here for two episodes

spk_0 so this is very likely part one we'll see how far we get but I'm expecting this to be two episodes

spk_0 we'll do a lot of setup and talking about the band of nine and and and a Elise and then what's going

spk_0 on in the West Westros side and by part two slash the end of part one we'll be talking about the war

spk_0 itself and then we're getting into the aftermath and the aftermath is really really cute just one

spk_0 the media's parts of this of this series because as as we alluded to in the beginning it's it's a

spk_0 defining moment so for so many elder characters and thus their children were also impacted by the

spk_0 law of passing down you know war generation generation which is a law right that is how it

spk_0 works so let's go into the band of nine Penny Kings so let's get into who these guys were where

spk_0 they were from and all that this first section is called the dragon must have two heads and got a

spk_0 glove for you captain of the golden company named for his protestically huge torso and arms

spk_0 fearsome strength and savage nature a second head grew from his neck no bigger than a fist

spk_0 he won command of the golden company by fighting his cousin Damon Blackfire for it killing his

spk_0 cousins destor with a single punch and then twisting Damon's head until it was torn from his

spk_0 shoulders other than perhaps Damon Blackfire himself no one is as important to the Blackfire

spk_0 rebellions as better Steve the dynasty was launched by Damon but Aigor saved the Blackfire family

spk_0 and sword protected them and the sword and facilitated the third and fourth rebellions themselves

spk_0 not the second he didn't back that one as we've covered past so you could say that the Blackfire

spk_0 cause exists to the blood of Damon and the sweat of better steel adding way to this importance

spk_0 after bitter steels death which came decades after Damon's there were no more Blackfire rebellions

spk_0 but the blood of Damon and the fruits of bitter steels labor did not die with either of

spk_0 the name and blood of a Blackfire that's Damon's legacy the golden company that's bitter steels legacy

spk_0 and with both of those things mainly well that's he's not the kind of character you would expect

spk_0 to combine those legacies but he's never on screen but his skulls are vote the captain general's

spk_0 tent was made a plough and was made a plough of gold and surrounded by a ring of pikes top with

spk_0 gilded skulls one skull was larger than the rest protestly malformed below it was a second no

spk_0 larger no larger than a child's fist nailies the monstrous and his nameless brother the other

spk_0 skulls had a sameness to them though several had been cracked and splintered by the blows that

spk_0 had slain them and one had filed pointed tea so that's John connington returning to the golden

spk_0 company after so long and taking a look at the skulls that is a really that is a really a

spk_0 paragraph because it gives us lots of fun historical information but it also has it's very metaphorical

spk_0 in a way that we're symbolic in a way that the other captives the golden company are not as memorable

spk_0 as this guy not just because of his huge skull but because of the type of person he was

spk_0 and because of the things he did do you have any comments on that on that quote Stephen that

spk_0 it's such a good one yeah well like you know partly it's the sort of idea that like

spk_0 in death our individuality is stripped away it's that whole like Totentont's thing that you see in

spk_0 in especially in like medieval German art literature where you're you know people are literally

spk_0 like taking off their flashes if it's clothing and underneath were all skeletons

spk_0 but malice retains some level of his sort of shall we say larger than life nature although I have

spk_0 to say I like the one with the the filed pointed tea I'm so curious about that guy Martin has a

spk_0 a way of building in mystery with very few words and that's a great example I think is it the

spk_0 juggerus nigh that have that file their teeth or their their there's some group in in

spk_0 essays that do I think you might be right but I did not look that up that's a good good question

spk_0 uh but it definitely suggests that this like this legacy of because because you normally think

spk_0 right you know in all the rest of the series heads on pikes is what you do to your enemy yeah

spk_0 that's your past it's you know here it's like transformed into this just like honor this funeral

spk_0 honor and of course you know it is that started with better steel he commanded that this be done

spk_0 in part because he sort of wanted to see victory and you know even in death um you know it's part

spk_0 of this whole thing where like his feud with blood raven right continues past a normal human

spk_0 lifespan that you know he wasn't a sorcerer who could you know extend his life by you know

spk_0 getting hooked up to a pre-iv but you know you could you could build this human institution

spk_0 and in that way sort of live on as this kind of legend and odom it's really good yeah that's

spk_0 that's really well said um and he is it's true too because you like it like he just kind of how he

spk_0 inverted cell swords by making them loyal like loyal and dependable and professional he's

spk_0 inverted this concept of the head on pikes I never thought about that way that's really good take

spk_0 mailies the the name is a feminine form of a branch branch french slash bretton uh name male

spk_0 uh and may he yell meaning chief or prince so I wonder if George was playing with that or if that's

spk_0 just a coincidence now I think there's some very clear comparisons to Gregor slash mage or here

spk_0 no Gregor and mage or have a lot of comparisons to each other so this guy is kind of like part of that

spk_0 triumvirate of of type of characters like this he has mage or is sort of similar heritage and upbringing

spk_0 and and Gregor is more of Gregor's deformed size um he's not as big as Gregor but uh instead of the

spk_0 nasty headaches he has a second head instead of being you know killing his potentially killing

spk_0 his father he may have killed his when he killed his cousin is Gregor who may have killed his own

spk_0 father well and his his brother yeah yeah tried to kill his own brother right so there's this

spk_0 clearly the Kinslaying stuff is there then you have this sort of aspect of undess around

spk_0 the Gregor is obviously a product of necromancy at this point whether he's technically dead or

spk_0 ever dead doesn't really matter that or us around him that concept mage or sort of the same he was

spk_0 in a coma for 28 days and then mysteriously rose when Tia sorceress Tiana came and worked with him

spk_0 so there's definitely or that could be his mother yeah you're right either way it's something kind

spk_0 of unnatural the senya tiana getting getting dirty with all that I don't know what they did but

spk_0 it's a similar kind of you may least meanwhile there's less sorcery but he's carrying around a dead

spk_0 twin with him at all times so there's like this death surrounding him as well he's also got some

spk_0 things in common with Damon Targaryen in that Damon Targaryen was a great warrior he wasn't malformed

spk_0 or anything but he was he started off down on the chain and tried to work his way up malformed

spk_0 possibly on the inside yes some adaptations of Richard the third where like the actor goes like very

spk_0 much into like what the deformities were and then some in which like the care Richard is not

spk_0 deformed it's just his spirit that was I remember I saw one where the whole stick was that the hunchback

spk_0 and the the withered arm would only be there when he was alone on state no okay interesting so it was

spk_0 more about sort of like this is what his soul looks like yeah so yeah I agree with you Damon

spk_0 Targaryen did not have a good looking soul and of course the whole business with the stepstones

spk_0 another thing you have in common Damon Targaryen was king of the stepstones for a little while before

spk_0 he surrendered his crown to his brother and Maley's of course crowned himself and they the band of nine did

spk_0 take the stepstones so he wasn't necessarily king of the stepstones but he was a king and he and his

spk_0 group did control the stepstones that's pretty close I wonder it's just as a quick side what type of

spk_0 king Maley's might have been I kind of think of it was probably would have been a bit like Mago

spk_0 or very very warlike very trying to be an alpha male about everything not having much not having

spk_0 a gentle touch on anything just being blunt and aggressive about yeah I imagine he would have

spk_0 probably spent his entire reign like putting down rebellion yeah like that's if he got himself

spk_0 onto the iron grunge just by that point I think things that had divided or diverged too much

spk_0 between the black fire exiles and sort of mainstream westroes he's society know what once

spk_0 once that occurring to me just now a comparison that might just be random and maybe seeing the

spk_0 George was thinking of was the Roman emperor Maximina's Thrax who I'm not sure if you might

spk_0 him he was a elected by his he was a soldier kind of elected by the rest of the Legion he was part of

spk_0 and they just named him emperor and he was a big huge warrior that ruled kind of like what we're

spk_0 describing he tried to rule the empire like a like a soldier and that's a stuff didn't that work

spk_0 hmm interesting name too right Maximina's Thrax like seven foot tall badass Roman Legionery

spk_0 like yeah I'm gonna read about that guy so let's move on now speaking of black fire the sword

spk_0 this is a what's interesting is how it's not mentioned at all it's part of the saga of the

spk_0 of nine penny kings and we're really just left to wonder it seems like it might have been

spk_0 lost to the black fires back all the way back in the third black fire rebellion or maybe I have

spk_0 small head cannon that it could have been destroyed at summer hall not too likely but

spk_0 and we have evidence that Lerios still has it right yeah I mean my guess is that probably

spk_0 you know it may have been lost many times because you know after the third right bitter steel gets

spk_0 captured and then escapes because he has friends at court and that would make sense that like if

spk_0 they captured it because you know it's it seems fairly clear that

spk_0 Hagon black fire died after having surrendered yes you know if that's the case then you know his

spk_0 sword would have fallen to the Targaryens but I could see it disappearing along with bitter steel

spk_0 yeah but then they might have lost it again in the fourth because again that is a case where a

spk_0 black fire king dies in on West Roci soil yeah and what becomes of of his his arms and arm

spk_0 and of course the better steel did escape that one to the fourth so there's you know maybe just like

spk_0 he escaped the first and took black fire it's possible up what happened in the fourth of course

spk_0 then the question is how did he get it back and well there was there's has been the world

spk_0 of ice and fire gave us a theory as to how Illyrio got his dragon which was and of course I'm

spk_0 not referring to a list of farman that's a theory going back even farther I'm referring to the

spk_0 the little note in the world of ice and fire that even Aries had eggs Aries second that is and

spk_0 that thus it would be very easy for Varys to abscond with a few eggs and hand them over to Illyrio

spk_0 who then gives them to nearest why not steal the Targaryen sword in the chaos as well of all that

spk_0 that could be how Illyrio still has it or got it back as you say maybe he didn't have it then

spk_0 got back that would fit the whole Varys model of like dealing stuff and then selling it back to

spk_0 people I write on yeah I mean you know arguably the whole project has been from the beginning

spk_0 to like steal the Targaryen dynasty and then sell it back to West Rocius yes so like having

spk_0 the sword black fire be part of that would kind of fit the model right on yeah that's that's

spk_0 very true so let's talk about this then bitter steel didn't back Daim in the second in the second

spk_0 rebellion as we know rebellion in quotes there and it seems this was due to concerns over his

spk_0 personality and or capabilities he did quite famously back hang on in the third and then Daim in

spk_0 the third in the fourth rebellion that's a little bit of a confusing sentence so two questions

spk_0 who succeeded bitter steel after his death in 241 and what did everyone Aegor

spk_0 his predecessor and the rest think of Mali's when he was born so I'm gonna let Steven

spk_0 Wayan but real first little context Mali's died in 260 and bitter steel died in 241 so only 19 years

spk_0 before thus their lives very likely overlapped maybe not by much probably only a couple years

spk_0 but Mali's was a huge man and huge people generally get most of their genetic hugeness

spk_0 early on he probably ascended quickly he was probably a really good warrior really fast just like

spk_0 Gregor and Sandor and the other big dudes if he didn't then it gets even more interesting because

spk_0 then we're looking at a scenario where bitter steel knew Mali's when he was eight or nine maybe even

spk_0 10 to 12 if not older the sandor killed his first man at age 12 so there's certainly precedent for

spk_0 12 year olds who were warriors like there's a story about a 12 year old warrior who joined the

spk_0 infamous Yom's Vikings who were like a Viking mercenary company in the name of Sandor in this guy

spk_0 to get in this company you had to fight one of the existing warrior in this 12 year old one is way in

spk_0 so this isn't even you know a fantasy thing necessarily and of course we know about

spk_0 if y'all are familiar with the janisaries who were slave soldiers raised from birth that's pretty

spk_0 similar to the unsolid so we have things like this out there so anyway I see them let me get your

spk_0 thoughts on that whether a what whether you think migor and agor's are Mali's and agor's

spk_0 lives overlapped and what things like what people would have thought about this this kid

spk_0 well I mean it's interesting because to me the the question comes back to the changing mechanism

spk_0 for leadership of the golden company yeah right for most of its history it seems to have been elected

spk_0 right the captain to become captain general the only example we have of a challenge

spk_0 so far is Mali's yeah and Mali's was like the you know he was not an equal challenger it was his

spk_0 cousin who had the command and then he was the the challenger so you know part of me wonders like

spk_0 was this a to use a slightly odd historical analogy but like Lenin on his deathbed

spk_0 trying arguing that don't pick Stalin you know I don't like him and you know when when the

spk_0 you know decision is like what's going to happen to the next generation did bitter steal have a will

spk_0 did he name a successor was there an election you know if so you know probably Mali's lost that

spk_0 election because I imagine it was one of these scenarios where he certainly he was known for

spk_0 having this kind of like dark charisma right he he brings other people into work with him but the

spk_0 fact that he wasn't the first choice right the fact that he had to engage in this kind of like

spk_0 almost conanesque act of kin slank right killing a horse but punching it in the head that suggests

spk_0 a situation where like his strength and ferocity was known but his character was feared

spk_0 but this is sort of largely speculation the only thing that we know is that like

spk_0 whatever the situation was he clearly wasn't the first choice because he had to to fight that

spk_0 dual in order to get the golden enable in order to get everything out yeah what do you think about

spk_0 his his look apart from the obvious two-head you know the strange second head coming out of his neck

spk_0 you think he had the silver hair and purple eyes so in every other instance where heavy

spk_0 Targaryen deformity has come up it's always been in the context of of in breeding yeah and you know

spk_0 one of the the things that you know seems to have come up it you know is the fact that like the

spk_0 black fires prided themselves on the fact that Damon had more Targaryen blood than Daron did

spk_0 and that didn't marry a martelle he married someone who also had the blood of old Gleary

spk_0 so I can imagine them adopting a more strict version of like this you know incestuous marriage

spk_0 in order to maintain that Targaryen Bollarian heritage that's a good point we are we are the true

spk_0 Targaryen it's not these not failure breaks fear and all these people who don't look like Targaryen

spk_0 and certainly in all of the like the official artwork that we've seen of maleist the monstrous

spk_0 you definitely see this like huge shock of silver hair that's true and giants like he looks like

spk_0 you know evil Santa Claus yes like this is big big guy with this huge beard huge hair which is a

spk_0 little confusing to me because that's part of where I my theory that he was on the younger side

spk_0 does not really reflect the way he's looks in some of the official art that say in the right

spk_0 empire you look like you said he looks like kind of like a Santa Claus it's strange seeing him

spk_0 without a helmet because you would expect you know in tv you see them do that all the time so you

spk_0 don't lose track of who's who but in the books guys who go into battle where helmets and what kind

spk_0 of strange ass helmet would he have I mean Tyros Tyrosh is known for strange helmets so they could

spk_0 they could also his physical deformity they have actually interfered with his armor in that case

spk_0 but I also think it's like one of those things where anytime young or old right silver hair is

spk_0 something that we associate with old people so I imagine that like part of the thing that makes the

spk_0 like Targaryen looks so otherworldly is that they look kind of ancient even when they're young

spk_0 that they're like young people with old people's hair that's just slightly disconcerting

spk_0 like to make them seem a little wiser than they should be yeah yeah a little bit a little bit

spk_0 village of the damned and like you said given where the blackfires reside which is the disputed lands

spk_0 and Tyrosh and all that if they didn't do intermarrying within their own line they could pretty easily

spk_0 find more Targaryen features to marry into to keep the look at least so unlike in Westros where

spk_0 those things are are pretty rare so I really wonder like from a superstitious perspective what did

spk_0 it seem like to the blackfires and just the people around in Tyrosh not necessarily blackfires but

spk_0 the people who knew and in Westros as well when this guy was born what did they think I mean it's a

spk_0 superstitious world you got a person born with this really strange feature that's extremely

spk_0 extremely rare in the real world there is precedent for such a thing but it's so rare that you can

spk_0 expect that that Westros to treat it or Essos to treat it like a scientific anomaly they're

spk_0 will treat it like some sort of strange supernatural prodigy and yeah I could say like if we look at

spk_0 how they react you know how Westros reacted to Tyrians work yeah like it was seen as a dark

spk_0 omen it was seen as like the punishment of the gods so I imagine like on the Westrosy side they

spk_0 would have been like look this is proof right you know this is the evil at the heart of the

spk_0 you know treacherous blackfires yeah it'd be really easy to use that propaganda cells itself

spk_0 I imagine like you know this is again you know a sort of speculation feeding into my whole thing

spk_0 about him not being the second choice but like there was such an emphasis among the blackfires about

spk_0 Damon's physical perfection and the physical perfection of his kids that this would have been

spk_0 you know that that maleist would have been a subject of shame and I think it's really the only

spk_0 difference you know between him and Tyrion is like he was big enough that like he could fight back

spk_0 it's very hard to like torment someone who's you know seven foot tall and made of muscle and

spk_0 you know very willing to kill you yeah if Tyrion could fight like Jamie people would not be making

spk_0 fun of him nearly as much yeah they would not call him half man they would at least not to his face

spk_0 yeah you wonder about that because with Tyrion there's the notion that maybe tywin would have had him

spk_0 killed on the quiet if it's not for you know his connection to Joanne obviously Joanna didn't stop

spk_0 him because she died herself but you know he may not want to kill a child of Joanna but this

spk_0 consideration would be different for the blackfires I wonder if there was any thought of just

spk_0 let's let this leave this kid out for the wolves that's strange it's like you said if they were

spk_0 embarrassed by it but clearly they did not do this yeah but it depends on how many male blackfires

spk_0 do they have left yeah that's a good point it may have just been him and his cousin in which case

spk_0 you know if anything happens to his cousin he's the only one left so and he may have been sterile too

spk_0 like look with that with all his genetic abnormalities it wouldn't be surprising if he couldn't have

spk_0 kids of his own let alone people wanting to that someone would marry him I suppose but yikes

spk_0 really wonder whether better still would think it was a good thing or not because I really do think

spk_0 it's very likely he was there for Mali's his burr I mean he was meaning by there I mean alive

spk_0 when it happened because these are Mali's death was like 19 years after bitter steel death

spk_0 we do know too it beyond this like you said for Westeros the fact that it seemed they could

spk_0 easily spin this as something bad it's worse because people whispered that he was born a

spk_0 kin slayer I mean the idea that he consumed his own twin well everything except its head is

spk_0 kind of a story that you can see how that would spread and that is obviously a bad bad thing because

spk_0 kin slaying is so so taboo and Westeros doesn't love cell swords either and there wasn't much

spk_0 support for the fourth black fire rebellion so let's just say it's doubtful people were clamoring

spk_0 for King Mali's and he probably didn't have any alludance about that he knew that they weren't

spk_0 clamoring for him he probably knew he'd have to take it by force so in a clash of kings

spk_0 barris tells the council that a two-headed dragon had been born in carth of course this is denaris

spk_0 birthing her dragon and barris is probably knows that we definitely knows that he's just spinning

spk_0 it in a way to keep the attention away from them when Mali's was born the equivalent would have been a

spk_0 two-headed dragon being born in Tyra they ignored the three-headed dragon rumor not taking it

spk_0 seriously and I wonder if that's kind of what happened here other than the denigration and all

spk_0 that because it sounds like I mean friends Duncan is out here saying and they're given out

spk_0 nine you know kings nine of penny but we're talking about later not the nine penny kings incident

spk_0 is later the band of nine forming in in in a two fifty-eight is well past the time when Mali's

spk_0 would have been born so we're talking about two separate events they would have been a reaction

spk_0 to his birth and then a reaction to him crowning himself and I wonder if this you know how that

spk_0 happened when from there any thoughts on that even this is red con is maybe slightly too strong a

spk_0 word but there was a little bit of timeline adjustment yeah because originally like you know a lot

spk_0 in the fandom were left with the impression that Aegon the fifth had been king during the

spk_0 nine-pity kings and then we learned it was jaharis yeah and you know that always kind of slightly

spk_0 wrong footed me because I thought the whole point was that like egg you know seeing egg growing

spk_0 out witnessing that the black choir rebellions and taking part in the earlier ones that like this led

spk_0 to this decision to like rather than be on the defensive as the Targaryens had been in the first

spk_0 questionable the second because that's sort of a case of entrapment um but definitely

spk_0 like on the defensive in the third and fourth that like the decision to be like no this time we're

spk_0 gonna stop them in the stepstones we're not gonna wait for it to hit westroes I always thought was like

spk_0 the the learning you know policy learning so the fact that it's jaharis the second you know that

spk_0 we later learned who did that always kind of slightly wrong footed me but it does sort of suggest

spk_0 that house Targaryen as a whole is sort of trying to be more decisive about this crisis trying to

spk_0 put it to bed once and for all after you know at this point you know a generation of turmoil it

spk_0 also gives the black fires a bit more of an opportunity because obviously with having whether that

spk_0 was a change or not it certainly means now that summer hall happens right before the yeah nine

spk_0 pennilinkings take the stepstone so it's kind of like well this might be them seeing their opportunity

spk_0 because there's a new regime and like you say jaharis the second not a not a weakling in terms of

spk_0 his mental fortitude but not a warrior in terms of his physical abilities he was he stayed home because

spk_0 he was not capable of going on campaign but you like you say he's the one that was going

spk_0 ho about taking the initiative yeah that would fit a pattern like we've sort of seen you know

spk_0 not so much with the first the first kind of happens by accident is not the right word for it but

spk_0 you know the arrest warrant being set out for Damon the first sort of started the war kind of

spk_0 a head of schedule but like certainly we've seen in the later rebellions that the

spk_0 black fires wait for some sort of crisis right whether it's the great spring sickness or the drought

spk_0 or an unpopular king something like that to kind of you know give them an ed

spk_0 um you know and you know you can sort of see this you know you know maybe this time

spk_0 it's like getting tips on forces for like gambling addicts you know maybe this time you know

spk_0 I've got the I've got the good scoop that could be sort of uh propaganda like a propaganda battle

spk_0 the west rossi would say oh look malice is born a kin slayer he's got all the genetic flaws it's

spk_0 clearly he's clearly a bad omen for the black fires and then they could turn around and say oh yeah

spk_0 well look at summer hall what does that say what does that say about ominousness y'all

spk_0 and kinslein yeah and kinslein you could kill do you just kill your own dynasty there agon

spk_0 so yeah that's that that's a pretty tough one that's a tough sale you can see that the propaganda

spk_0 battle being pretty fierce on that side and like you said agon the fifth wasn't worried too much

spk_0 about the black fires maybe because of how weak the fourth rebellion was I mean he was there for

spk_0 that and dunk his kinsguard lord commander fought in three of them and had so much to do

spk_0 there so they may have just been that may have been part of the reason why they weren't too worried

spk_0 about it and it may also been a little bit of remembering that they took it too seriously during

spk_0 blood ravens time maybe a little of we took it too seriously then let's not overextend ourselves

spk_0 this time something like that lots of possibilities and it's a and it's to be fair to them too

spk_0 is in the world of cell swords and pirates and and all these cut throat type individuals

spk_0 is affecting the band of nine to not succeed I don't think that's too much of a gamble I think

spk_0 that is sort of a reasonable expectation for a group of of scumbags like that to turn on each other

spk_0 but apparently the the long odds came out this time so yeah you mentioned that nalees the killing

spk_0 of his own cousin to win the command of the golden company puts puts any doubts to rest of whether

spk_0 he was a kin slayer by birth or not because he's certainly one after that point and also as you

spk_0 said the the nomination process may have changed for the golden coming that's really interesting whether

spk_0 this was a one time thing where malees was like look you're a coward if you refuse to fight me or if

spk_0 this was just something that they were trying to establish like a lot maybe the lot of the other

spk_0 cell swords thought it was a good policy to have the strongest need them but clearly as you point

spk_0 it out there is no way Harry Strickland fought for command of the golden company so something has either

spk_0 changed or either they either there was a temporary change or they changed back so yeah I mean I

spk_0 think that's a really good point which is that like there's these dueling principles at work right

spk_0 command by the strongest versus internal solidarity right you don't kill your own comrades

spk_0 yeah because you know if if you know as we've seen in the war of five kings right if succession is

spk_0 settled with knives then it's very hard to limit it and sort of say well only once you know

spk_0 and then they may have decided like no an election and then that's it you know we're just going

spk_0 to like limit any political conflict within the group because you know this is what it leads to

spk_0 so it'd be really interesting just we should consider just briefly that George is going to be all

spk_0 Georgie with us here and and pull uh actually malees was well spoken and uh all this other stuff that

spk_0 just he looked the way he did and had this reputation was brutal and savage but there's a lot of

spk_0 you know oh he's got this look so his reputation is not what he entirely deserved like

spk_0 Terry like Terry is a great example blood right you know these guys had reputations they were dirty

spk_0 they were nasty they did brutal things but the stories told about them are still pumped up a few

spk_0 degrees if not more he definitely get the sense that like he wasn't stupid like you know if there's

spk_0 one major difference between him and Gregor it's like you get the sense there was um

spk_0 whether he was good with people you know he must have been good with people at some level

spk_0 otherwise the band of of nine would not have formed maybe like Robert that good with people where

spk_0 they just were like not charisma but they knew they could follow him in the battle yeah of course

spk_0 personality but certainly there is a mind it yes he was thinking about what would he need to

spk_0 win this war in terms of like who was in the the band of eight and obviously you know

spk_0 but when when we eventually get to the actual fighting itself there is some interesting strategy going on

spk_0 yeah that's a great point I'll allude to that briefly and what's even to prefer to

spk_0 the fact that they and the golden company and the black fires in the past mostly went straight

spk_0 for King's Landing or tried to and whereas this is not that sort sort of a campaign at all

spk_0 but what Lexi even said we'll get to that a little later let's talk a little bit more about the

spk_0 the interim time and maybe Maley's building his reputation as we said we don't know how old he was

spk_0 it's hard to guess at that my I tend to lean towards the younger side because of his you know

spk_0 in size and brutality and all that just what this the advantage that gives him is a warrior and

spk_0 and again if if we were assuming that he took over the golden company by killing his cousin let's

spk_0 say that was just a couple of years before the band of nine was formed it's possibly longer but

spk_0 it couldn't be a whole lot longer there's only 15 years or 17 years between the band of nine

spk_0 forming officially and the death of better steel so and it's hard to imagine that

spk_0 Maley's didn't have command of the golden company for at least a little while a year or two if not

spk_0 more to at least establish a rep to at least prove he was capable to you know if the other guys

spk_0 are going to join him in this alliance he had to show something besides a claim and and the

spk_0 you know being good at fighting would you would you agree with that yeah cool I mean you know

spk_0 especially if you're a mercenary right yeah you you have to work all the time otherwise you don't get

spk_0 eight yeah so it's not like you sort of you take several years off between wars it's like no you know

spk_0 what are we you know we're refiding for this season okay you know let's let's go there and fight

spk_0 so I imagine you know you would have had you know at least a few campaigning years under his belt by

spk_0 the time you know if not why would anyone you know agree to not just sort of work with him but like

spk_0 take this huge gamble yeah backing him for an invasion of western I mean that is huge like the

spk_0 only time that's been done was with egg on the conqueror and dragon I mean this is a major major

spk_0 undertaking to you you got to really have people really got to have confidence in you that's why

spk_0 I'm detained the notion that he was actually somehow like go to speaking or or anything like that

spk_0 man imagine him being the son of the anise that was killed by bloodrave and the one who tried to

spk_0 convince the seven kingdoms to give him the crown maybe he was that guy's son and actually had some

spk_0 upbringing that involved eloquence and learning how to speak well but of course we're just

spk_0 spitballing here there is nothing specifically to point us in that direction it is just within the

spk_0 realm of possibility and what is that so let's talk about some of the other eight members of the

spk_0 band actually let's not do that real quick let's see let's let's let's talk about a few questions

spk_0 that we let's let's handle a few q&a stuff here oh my goodness look at his what look what is said

spk_0 in the q&a I just scrolled to our qa section here Stephen Chloe catch them and Emmett have gotten

spk_0 engaged yes I just saw that I took a second to to wish them well on Twitter that is awesome well

spk_0 congrats to Emmett booth of not a cast and Chloe of girls gone cannon and drunk a also a

spk_0 history who are also our our friends we've hung out many times that is awesome can we also chalk

spk_0 this up to a win for ice and firecon yes ice and fireconn and Rita also met there and they're

spk_0 also engaged so if you're looking for your nerdy love interest come to ice and fireconn my new ad

spk_0 for it that's a good ad for it that is a very good sell salesmanship job there and yeah

spk_0 Chloe isn't charge of marketing so now she knows to be like I found my fiance

spk_0 so yeah if you are interested in going to ice and fireconn here's the sales pitch too you can get

spk_0 five dollars off your ticket by using a code history on your ticket price go to ice and fireconn

spk_0 dot com and go to the store and see us there so well that was a fun little distraction that was really

spk_0 cool but let's let's go to the the the questions that are on topic here from pat d'Ordy who made this

spk_0 shirt blood raven shot first that I'm wearing he is a very much a fan of the black dragon side of

spk_0 so he wants to know if mayleys' condition says anything about the black flame theory now before

spk_0 you answer steven I'll explain real quickly for those of us who don't know what black flame means

spk_0 and also I have my own thing to wrap up into this question so let's have a little fun here black

spk_0 flame also called bright flame or as rather related to bright flame is is a reference to arian as

spk_0 the one named bright flame or arian bright fire he has two different nicknames that's the guy who

spk_0 drank wildfire when he was drunk and it of course killed him he had spent some time in the free

spk_0 cities particular lease he was of course sent sent there on exile after the hedge and there are

spk_0 because of the kind of guy he was there are theories that he may or may not have

spk_0 sired a few bastards of his own and if those bastards were out there they may have been

spk_0 become they either may have become someone important or become part of the golden company been

spk_0 scooped up by these dynastic agents wanting to grab that bloodline and thus you get the combination

spk_0 of black fire and bright flame in the name black flame so that's just a fan made name of course but

spk_0 I wonder uh yes so we should consider all that in light of this whether we because you brought

spk_0 this up Steven the idea that they may have been trying to play like the targaryens and keep their

spk_0 dynastie pure in a sense if there was some targaryen blood out there they may have tried to

spk_0 have scorned with them in this case I don't think so because the way that world of ice and fire

spk_0 talks about Aryan bright flames actions during the third rebellion they would not be a fan of his

spk_0 with they yeah I mean I get the sense that like if he didn't personally wield the knife to kill

spk_0 Hague on then he was very much involved in that so you know that's always kind of been my problem

spk_0 with the this particular theory is just that like no like if the you know if the golden company

spk_0 don't like targaryens they especially aren't going to like this asshole yeah that is very true

spk_0 so but the other thing I wanted to work into this is the idea of the the kind of parallel concept

spk_0 of maylees is interesting unusual deformity in light of the deformities that have occurred mutations

spk_0 that occurred in the targaryen line of course I refer to rego and maylees are megaars many

spk_0 strange progeny and then the example of little viseña right near his kid and I wonder if that's

spk_0 sort of a thematic parallel do you think there's anything to that yeah well you know it's um

spk_0 it's a little unclear because you know I don't think like George is getting out of Punnett square

spk_0 no no no no the you know genetic load or any of this it's more than just like

spk_0 you get the sense that like Targaryen deformity is more about like the spirit within yeah

spk_0 right that you know people of bad character you know it comes out in so that may be what's going on

spk_0 with with melees that like and this is why I made the comparison to Richard III is because

spk_0 Thomas Moore wrote a book about Richard which he argued that like Richard was born simple

spk_0 yes born a murderer right even before yet you ever killed anybody and you sort of get that idea

spk_0 with with melees that like he was born having already in some sense committed uh you know the

spk_0 most sort of you know primal existence yeah certain aspects of his personality were to find

spk_0 for him when he was still a baby without actually earning or or deserving yeah yep that's very true so

spk_0 yeah that's an interesting point about the particular Targaryens that have had these issues with

spk_0 their children and of course for bringing up Daenerys in that light as a touchy subject but

spk_0 no doubt that it's it's a possibility and it also brings us another parallel which is that

spk_0 if maigor was a very clearly sterile or near sort of sterile pseudo sterile and Daenerys now can't

spk_0 as told she can't bear kids and now we have the same thing the idea that maybe melees couldn't have

spk_0 kids because of well people with lots of mutations like that are often sterile that's just the way

spk_0 the world seems to work genetics and biology but uh so that's just you know maybe some thematic

spk_0 ties together there speaking of the genetics here or not genetics but more of a lineage a couple

spk_0 questions from Matt Reese um he says i would like to know who was Damon the third's father and who

spk_0 was melees's father from Damon the first five surviving sons any guesses and well i think that

spk_0 hey i wonder about this is tough because i wonder he gone when it was killed after he surrendered after

spk_0 yielded you wonder if he had had kids before whether he had i i kind of jesse there's a decent chance

spk_0 he dead because it's pretty normal before a king goes off to war to inspire an heir and kind of

spk_0 take care of that the third is listed as heguns eldest son right so that means that he had at least two

spk_0 yes he probably didn't name them both Damon so it's unlikely the second one was this was this

spk_0 cousin Damon that bitter steel or that a melees killed for command of the golden company so there's

spk_0 a lot of possibilities that is it is difficult to track these possibilities down because there are so many

spk_0 there's seven blackfire sons from Damon and yeah and we know there's the whole business with like

spk_0 anus technically uh in this blackfire technically jumping the the blackfire line yes that's true

spk_0 when he put himself forward at the great council of uh 233 which fits in early interestingly with my

spk_0 little anus is the father of mego or their or mele's theory because if if he kind of figured his

spk_0 father had already done that he's like well i deserve this my father already took the front spot

spk_0 i don't know that's a little bit of a stretch but it fits anyway

spk_0 yeah it's just i mean you know the truth is just like the house blackfire family tree is

spk_0 really is just riddled with unknown yeah really really on the um i i think like i just a couple more

spk_0 like one or two sperm dates would do a lot for us we could we're because the extrapolations were

spk_0 kind of stuck and but like one or two firm dates would would enable us to extrapolate a lot more

spk_0 i think released to or it could just spin us out of control and give us even more possibilities

spk_0 you never know uh so matrice also asked maybe after bitter steel leadership might have evolved

spk_0 to whomever was the blackfire pretender then after mele say went to election

spk_0 yeah that's entirely possible that because bitter steel had such a tight grip on it for so long that

spk_0 after him uh maybe he didn't do a great job of of naming a successor to the to his own you know

spk_0 that is interesting thing because you know uh bitter steel was so involved in

spk_0 you know he really was the sort of blackfire kingmaker yeah and he didn't die suddenly right he

spk_0 died we know he own his deathbed he commanded them to do that stuff with his skull so he had a chance

spk_0 to name a successor and you know he was very clearly saying like okay no not Daim in the second you

spk_0 know i want he gone instead um you know not you know so so he was very much like he was not sort of

spk_0 faithfully falling any line of succession he was sort of saying who i think is the best uh person

spk_0 for the job so an interesting possibility did he name a claim what happened after he died was there

spk_0 any you know because it's it's not like you you never see infighting within political exile

spk_0 unity it's like nothing is more poisonous and more bitter than like people who are on the outs

spk_0 you know fighting over you know some you know completely abstract claim to power and of course

spk_0 we've got plenty of examples you know robert robert and sersi slash the series the second they name

spk_0 their air and then everybody just throws that out like no you you're your your piece of paper is not

spk_0 who we're gonna go with here jay 17 any chance we'll find out more about maelese in a selmy chapter

spk_0 in wins i think there's a very good chance of that especially because George's mentioned

spk_0 maelese in light of tyrian and we're we're really getting into this whole young griff plot line

spk_0 so i would bet fairly strongly on that i'm maybe i'm hope maybe i'm too hopeful for it but i think

spk_0 that there's a very good question yes that is a good question yeah jace also asked you think

spk_0 agor just miss damon the seconds claim do his due to probably do his sexuality i think there's

spk_0 a good chance he did but i think there's that probably wasn't the only reason because there's

spk_0 if you look at the the way the second quote unquote rebellion plays out there's clearly other issues

spk_0 with damon the second not just i don't think his his homosexuality is a would really be a big deal

spk_0 i mean it could be a goor obviously yeah and those were things like the west rocie tend to talk

spk_0 about it yeah but they're sort of like you know look as long as you siren air no one really cares

spk_0 what you do in private yeah the tv show gay people the wrong impression about how much west

spk_0 trust seems to care about that i think it's more than just like damon really was kind of more mystical

spk_0 yeah and thought that he was going to burst dragons and you know that's how he was going to win

spk_0 i think it's far more problematic i mean i don't think i don't know if he's problematic at all

spk_0 but also from from a personal standpoint right bitter steals lifelong olders enemy is the like

spk_0 those sorts are good point mr. it doesn't trust that yeah yeah i i think he'd be look at at

spk_0 jayman the second say like no this we i am not like nurturing another blood raven in my own cap this guy

spk_0 dreamer and a madman i want someone you know and a good practical warrior like his older brother

spk_0 so i think he's going to be king because he dreamt it is not yeah that's not something you can

spk_0 can put a lot of military backing behind without some proof and there was none

spk_0 that he had his dreams but there was no oh these dreams are coming true and we this is something we

spk_0 talked about in our earlier black bar coverage whether he had proved himself with any of his

spk_0 dreams or not and the fact that bitter still didn't back him kind of argues that he hadn't

spk_0 because if his dreams have been proven to come true then i would argue that maybe bitter steel

spk_0 would be like this guy his dreams are coming true so maybe we should back him but because of the blood

spk_0 raven point you just made maybe not maybe he was just so against any of that stuff and he would just

spk_0 i don't want to get involved in any of that magical stuff maybe he's got like a virus type attitude

spk_0 about it okay so let's let's give some shout outs here appropriately enough for this episode we'll

spk_0 do some shout outs for our cell sword captains that seems to fit right that is appropriate for

spk_0 an episode featuring so many cell swords Peter blaze in the emerald is captain of the wherewood

spk_0 wanderers along lives quick desk cold beer and warm women de gronne is marshall of the axe captain

spk_0 of the red tide resistance in futile karen calls bane captain of the stone shields the torrent breaks

spk_0 upon the stone aim a helmet captain of the whispering children dead men tell no secrets

spk_0 shepard his son the shepard of sos all men are sheep before the shepard air to the whispering

spk_0 children lady lejara dot show is the iron lily master archer castellan of the summer island keep

spk_0 our burial point captain of the all female whaling widows women and children first Cody the crimson

spk_0 is basher to bracken captain of the red waste exiled and recruiter of the free folk Cameron is the

spk_0 hammer of hornwood captain of the english lions their motto honor is the reward of virtue lord

spk_0 Brandon brewer of castle black broon is captain of the shadow wolves their motto are steel is cold

spk_0 our vengeance colder black alixan is the bastard of spears and leader of the bermuda van guard

spk_0 bitter steel is captain general the golden company beneath the gold the bitter steel and our word

spk_0 is good as gold they get two motos that's how cool they are also want to give shout outs to

spk_0 our queens of love and beauty i'm determined to get it right this time from the depths of flea

spk_0 bottom lord can of house hammer is declared for queen kary fire of the north who recovered a dark

spk_0 sister from the on the wall and a laurel of glory in the name of love to bud of house barrisford

spk_0 night of tokyan and arbiter of scotch from sandy the dragon blood of queen denaris and lady of

spk_0 jameson and last but not least our blood rider patrons vorsaki wielder of a version belirian steel

spk_0 air act with a dragonbone hill co-hell coley called sun piercer wielder of a dragonbone bow and

spk_0 cacava the tamer wielder of the wildfire whipped gahena i think see vincenzo last time we've had

spk_0 you on you now have a patron i don't think you had one the last time we did so why don't you give

spk_0 god uh almost a better part of the year now i feel like you lost in may

spk_0 what's that right yeah something like that and uh it's got a uh number of uh levels of benefits so

spk_0 if you join at the one dollar poor fellows level you just get access to the patron feed which gives

spk_0 early access to bonus content if you join at the uh five dollar brotherhood without banners level

spk_0 get a sh- you get a shout out at the end of every essay if you join at the team's small folk level

spk_0 of ten dollars a month uh you also get a guaranteed ask for month where like you know i do

spk_0 regular uh answering people's asks on social media and i put them together in posts and you get

spk_0 to ask a question on any topic you want if you join small council level of twenty five dollars or

spk_0 more a month uh you can suggest topics for future historical analysis essay sections because

spk_0 every time i write about a chapter i come up with a historical topic of course and

spk_0 i know the field yeah and then my secret inner council at fifty dollars or more a month

spk_0 is privy to all of my schemes and machinations including to when i eventually get round to it

spk_0 early access to my first original model oh you're right to know i will be doing i'm currently

spk_0 in the research project uh that's cool face the project you want to give a little teaser about what

spk_0 it's about or is it not sure it's going to be set in uh Renaissance Rouge and it's about a sort of

spk_0 uh uh in you know a fantasy version of Renaissance Rouge uh basically an Italian mercenary comes to

spk_0 Rouge and uh tries to make his fortune cool sounds great i will definitely read that that sounds

spk_0 right up my alley yes i just have to to write it yeah my my plan at the moment is to uh you know

spk_0 because like at the moment i've got this like twenty page like planning document and i'm using

spk_0 so tarot for all of my research but like uh i'm going to do basically nano-rimel uh this coming year

spk_0 and just uh try to bang out like a first draft very cool well good luck with that that sounds

spk_0 excellent i hope you uh thank you make great progress this year

spk_0 let's get back to it the other eight members of the band of nine we haven't i don't know if we

spk_0 mentioned any of that them by name yet uh we'll start off by a quick primer um i've you sometimes

spk_0 see the word sell-sword company sometimes see the word free company as best as i can tell that's

spk_0 the same thing you you interpret that differently do you know otherwise so the free companies i think

spk_0 just remind myself are specifically the ones uh in ss okay and Nate they they emerge out of the

spk_0 the the free cities okay so i think it's just a contraction right free cities company

spk_0 uh into free companies that makes sense um but uh the you know i think the difference is basically like

spk_0 they're not individual mercenaries right and they're not these sort of like temporary

spk_0 you know clumping together of broken men or bandits or whatever they are these permanent

spk_0 instant or not permanent but these long lasting institutions that have these like charters

spk_0 and they sign contracts with city states that are more based on these like historical

spk_0 capital-c mercenary companies i thought maybe it had something to do with the the type commitment

spk_0 they made to the company but i apparently i was wrong i thought maybe for example the certain

spk_0 companies to find a contract and if you leave they'll cut your foot off or something but

spk_0 i may have to do with it or or it could be you know another possibility is that like free company iE

spk_0 free of political uh they go long to a given state they are not subjects of a anyone city

spk_0 um or you know in in you know the case of like westorose mercenaries right you know subjects of the

spk_0 king you know the the golden company is a law unto itself right on okay yeah uh that makes a lot of

spk_0 sense so the other eight members of the band and the reason we brought that up is because there's a lot

spk_0 of cell sword slash free company commanders in this group as well as pirates it's a very interesting

spk_0 group and that doesn't describe all of them they're not all pirates and cell swords but that is a

spk_0 large chunk of them so well one of the things we tried to do is kind of figure out where some of them

spk_0 came from some of them we do know some of them we don't we know because of the name gives it away

spk_0 we're wondering things like and we also wonder what they expected what is their reward as in the

spk_0 the goal of the band of nine was to carve out kingdoms for each other and well no one could possibly

spk_0 have gotten the kingdom as large as the one may least wanted there's no nothing else was on the

spk_0 board as a prize as large as westorose so the one of them was alacoa dara's we'll talk about him in a

spk_0 minute in more detail but he wanted tyros and he got it but the rest of the band it's not clear

spk_0 both what they wanted and whether or not any of them got it because uh well probably they didn't get

spk_0 it the only other place they conquered with the disputed lands which may have been what one of them

spk_0 wanted for his own territory or hers anyway so we're wondering if any of them if you wanted

spk_0 bravos or pentas I mean that kind of thing we see for example who is it uh the the the tattered prince

spk_0 his reward for backing danias he wants pentas and obviously this is a kind of thing that you would

spk_0 expect to not be uh so unique we wonder if anyone came or wanted basilis kiles or something like

spk_0 that we see commanders and pirate captains setting themselves up in places like that as far as we

spk_0 know there's no connection to volantis or the farther east like i'm none of these band nine seem

spk_0 to be associated with say slavers bay or yt or ashire anything like that but you never know

spk_0 because these aren't people who necessarily establish themselves in their own country

spk_0 some of them also came from us to us very clearly so let's go through the one at time the first one

spk_0 is the old mother she apparently is the one woman in the group although some of there's

spk_0 possibility of one other i suppose so to me that name she's a pirate that reminds me of the

spk_0 chinese pirate in real life ching she who is the most successful pirate of all time

spk_0 but that is literally and just like ching she we get very little about the old mother the real

spk_0 sources tell us very little about ching she even though she was only like 200 years ago but uh

spk_0 old mother hey i don't know uh what do you any any thoughts on the old mother

spk_0 pirate suggests so probably somewhere coastal right yeah you know unlikely to be one of the

spk_0 yobas nai even though they are matriarchs one possibility is just reminding my like lang

spk_0 just because that is a more matriarchal society yeah that's a good call i don't think of that

spk_0 and obviously that would fit ching she right you know more eastern than the rest

spk_0 yeah but with you know again we're we're working with scraps here scrap total scrap your ching she

spk_0 inherited her uh basically kind of her husband was the pirate lord and and when he died she took over

spk_0 and which is unusual that someone else didn't step up or attack her or if they did she defeated them

spk_0 so uh that's not to say that's how this woman rose to the ranks it could be she did it on her own

spk_0 but there it is uh unusual to see a woman rise so high amongst very male dominated uh

spk_0 profession of piracy um there's all sorts of superstitions about women being on board things

spk_0 like that which some of which probably exist in s's and westrow as well as in the real world

spk_0 they're not so prominent nowadays but they were back in the day on in uh on our planet

spk_0 but like he says like she even says there's not a whole lot we can we can say here that isn't just

spk_0 guesswork samaro son is another pirate lord and we can say more about him because that name is

spk_0 very familiar isn't it yeah we know the sons yep so he's his solidores family we also have we

spk_0 also know of a sato son and this is why I brought up the basal scales because sato son was king

spk_0 of basal scales and he was active not too long before this i mean it could have been as much as

spk_0 200 years before but we're not talking like many many hundreds of years ago and it seems like

spk_0 samaro son was defeated in the stepstones by mig or the cruel and aithen velarian and some of these

spk_0 other guys so there's some chance that this is what uh samaro son wanted was either the basal

spk_0 scales or the stepstones what do you think about the or at least possibly because that's where they

spk_0 come from yeah i think about some one thing that's interesting about samaro son is his nickname

spk_0 that separates him out a little bit from the rest of his family he'd called himself the last

spk_0 valerian right that's interesting and you know you mentioned that like none of these people seem to

spk_0 have come from valentines it's possible he wanted valentines right because the because the

spk_0 volunteers like see themselves and talk about themselves as like the most valerian of valerian yes

spk_0 so it's possible that like samaro son if he thought of himself as like more valerian than anyone

spk_0 else would have been like great i'll take that right i mean i can live inside the black walls i can

spk_0 you know rule this enormous empire and you know that's you know you can't rule valerian

spk_0 self unless you want to die by you know horrible worm things demons but you know closest thing right

spk_0 yeah definitely that's a great guess yeah i like that um the whole last valerian title is very

spk_0 evocative you wonder because like well yes all of the or is not calling himself anything like that he

spk_0 doesn't really refer to himself for that aspect of inherited much at all it's it's inferred we learn

spk_0 yeah well after a clash of kings i think that that that about like the lysenny connection i think it

spk_0 may well though he does call himself prince of the narrow sea that's true um that's so there is this

spk_0 like tendency among the son family to like hunger for for royal title yeah yeah you wonder

spk_0 because salad or still out there i mean he's not currently not associated with any of the major

spk_0 factions he is a faction of his own right now that's probably not going to maintain there's he'll

spk_0 probably take a side again and there's an opportunity for him to maybe mention more about his family

spk_0 or anything like that so i'm hoping that salad or drops a few paragraphs about his his own family now

spk_0 the George has expanded on them so much because this was not the kind of expansion on a family that

spk_0 we expect and so many sons have popped up over the all the all over the extra secondary sources here

spk_0 it's it's pretty fun all right let's talk about jobar joqoua which is almost certainly not how to

spk_0 pronounce it but whatever aka the ebon prince that's a much easier thing to say so this guy

spk_0 was a summer islander and summer island one thing summer islanders know very well is sailing

spk_0 nothing they know pretty well as archery not to assume that he is either of those things but

spk_0 it's a good start for a guest so of course a comp for this guy is a jala bar joe who is an

spk_0 exile prince at court yeah what do you think about zobar joqoua here so the interesting thing or

spk_0 chakwa yeah yeah the interesting thing is like for a place that it that you know martin clearly

spk_0 sort of seasons like almost paradise in nature it does seem to have this nasty tendency of producing

spk_0 exiled princes to retake their lands by force so i would not be surprised because you know it's not

spk_0 a very long sale from the stepstones to the summer isles if that's what he wanted he just needed

spk_0 an army to get back home in style as a we know that jamey particularly interested in the stories

spk_0 about this guy there's a passage where jamey is when he's getting ready to meet with blackfish

spk_0 and have their parlay he thinks of how when he first met blackfish he was you know there was talk

spk_0 of him marrying lisa tully or being engaged to lisa tully that never happened but it was sort of

spk_0 a thing and they were they were sat next to each other and jamey remembers how he completely ignored

spk_0 because he wanted to talk to brinden about nalees the monstrous and the ebon prince he mentions

spk_0 those two specifically yeah well in that case even though some are islanders are better known for

spk_0 archery maybe he was a very good swordsman that's what jamey has a disdain for bows you're right

spk_0 well and also that a young jamey was absolutely obsessed with swords that was the only thing he

spk_0 was really interested that's a great point yeah and this guy was probably a celsoord captain which

spk_0 means probably he had an opportunity yeah that's a great point i like that guess a lot so i was

spk_0 so i'm in the fact that uh maybe those were the two best swordsmen of the batch that might be a subtle

spk_0 hint that because jamey was just interested in nothing but swords especially that i mean he

spk_0 wasn't interested in much by the time he came of age but but when he was you know seven years older

spk_0 whenever that was he must have been super hyper focused on this so yeah that's a great theory

spk_0 i like that a lot the idea that that the ebon prince was a was an excellent swordsman you had a good

spk_0 theory on this next one as well liam and la shara whose nickname is the lord of battles also a

spk_0 celsoord captain that much is confirmed you'd think a name like that would imply significant

spk_0 experience maybe more on the command side rather than yeah i was going to say a tactician

spk_0 yeah opposed to a warrior clever strategist and you you suggest that he might be lysine because of

spk_0 that name la shara is kind of like rogar yeah it's it's the same sort of construction so i mean

spk_0 you know look if if it's filerian in nature it could be any of the free cities but there is a certain

spk_0 you know and and this gets rather difficult because right they all can't pick the same territory

spk_0 right yeah you know the the whole way that this thing works is each of them pick a territory

spk_0 and agree that they'll they'll take it for themselves if if he's lysine you know maybe

spk_0 samaritan didn't want lice and you know that's the way it goes but you know it is interesting definitely

spk_0 sort of lord of battles has a ring to you wonder maybe he's the engineer of their their strategy

spk_0 their campaign strategy might have been him who said yeah let's take let's take the disputed lands

spk_0 first then we'll take tyros then we'll go from stepstowns and then we'll go for westros and then

spk_0 westros will empower us to do all the other things which that's a decent plan i guess you know there's

spk_0 a lot of a lot of details to work out but the idea of making westros the the base for seizing all

spk_0 these other kingdoms while that you can see the logic and that because you have the power of westros

spk_0 it shouldn't be that hard to take some of these smaller kingdoms that are relatively independent

spk_0 the next one is the other one who might be the chance this one's female because there's no name

spk_0 here it's just nine eyes cel sword captain maybe it's a cel sale fleet because they're they're called

spk_0 the jolly fellows which that does sound very pirata it really does so and cel sale fleets are a thing

spk_0 we don't see i don't think we've seen one two up close other than solid or sans which is pretty

spk_0 much that is what he's doing with it you see only one who gets a well yeah i mean he's the only one

spk_0 who gets a name the name that isn't without a real name like we have one other old mother that's also

spk_0 yeah we don't know what i meant in in the in the main song by surprise oh i see okay and yeah so

spk_0 you're right you mean you mean out of cel sale captain i see okay yeah i wonder like nine eyes you

spk_0 know i get more of a basketball styles feel here okay just because like nine eyes it's almost like

spk_0 it's almost like wildling like you know that or or like the clan you know the the mountain clans of the

spk_0 the mountain of the moon like it's not a it's civilized belirian name it's not summer islander

spk_0 it's not westerosi this sounds like something else is given name isn't something that apparently he

spk_0 thinks would help make him famous i guess like yeah if you had some sort of belirian sounding name

spk_0 that would probably be a part of the schtick but apparently maybe his name is is not important

spk_0 so next up we have one of the west ross so this one's pretty important spotted tom the butcher and now

spk_0 anyone named the butcher is generally not a nice fellow yeah so you have a theory on where he might

spk_0 have come from and i like i like this theory a lot too yeah so um this is a theory the

spk_0 santa guards of spots would as an santa guard who was of course yes important for

spk_0 the early parts of the song by some fire and you know their sigil is a spotted leopard and you know

spk_0 they they they are the knights of spots wood so it's like spots is very much a thing you know for them

spk_0 so you know it's possible he is a a bastard instead of a full blood santa guard um the other

spk_0 thing that makes me lean towards santa guard is that if you look at where the spots wood is

spk_0 it's pretty close to the lands of the ironwoods yeah who were the we know they were black

spk_0 black fire loyalists and you know good point where we're right or die many times so the idea that

spk_0 their vassals would have come along with that strong possibility you know we know that like you know

spk_0 from world of ice and fire and fire and blood and all that that like the garnish settle internal

spk_0 politics very violently you know you got to grow see do so it's doesn't seem impossible to me that you

spk_0 wound up on the wrong side of some blood feud or kudit you know failed coup or something and that's

spk_0 how you went the name like the butcher that's a great theory now I have my own little theory to add

spk_0 on to this which is that I figure given the timeline this this spot of time the butcher probably

spk_0 not a really old man maybe you never know probably not though probably more middle age-ish young

spk_0 on the younger side but not young young and the reason for that is well that's just a typical age

spk_0 for ambitious warrior types it's hard to be a really old guy leading a campaign to take a throne

spk_0 or something like that so we're yeah the bold so exactly like some there are exam there are

spk_0 exceptions the patterned prince is a perfect one but he is an exception clear so my guess is

spk_0 that he was exiled during eggs time during egg on the fifth time because egg had been

spk_0 king for 25 years when the band pledged beneath tree of crowns to become this band of nine yeah and

spk_0 and that also fits because you know we know from the reigns of castamere that egg put an unusual

spk_0 amount of emphasis into royal law enforcement on the local level so you know it's it's quite possible

spk_0 that sort of he was involved in some local feud and then you know egg on the fifth said

spk_0 nope royal justice is going to be brought against you when he fled to ss and joined up with

spk_0 the black fires because like you know a few exactly why not yeah so and that brings us to another

spk_0 connection to dunking egg which is Derek fossil with sir excuse me sir Derek fossil

spk_0 way aka the bad apple i love this nickname don't throw out the whole bunch because of one

spk_0 bad apple but no he's of course a fossil way and then the fossil ways are like a microcosm of

spk_0 black fire targaryen and and they happened during the at dunking egg series and in the in the

spk_0 hedge night we see the formation of the green apple fossil ways breaking off from the red apple

spk_0 fossil ways and this guy is like some third sort of branch of his own in a sense and of course

spk_0 you have a sigil that is by changing the color you represent this cadet branch which is obviously

spk_0 exactly what the black fires to to represent their connection to the targaryen so this just is a

spk_0 nice little George is having fun with this one but we don't know a whole lot about him other than

spk_0 him being a knight and an interesting point here is that unlike all these other characters

spk_0 he's not necessarily a celsoar captain he might be but he's not listed as one he's a knight with

spk_0 an ill repute which is well he must be more than just that a knight like some nasty knight

spk_0 doesn't sound like he's on the same level as a celsoar captain or a pirate lord or may lease the

spk_0 monstrous so this guy had to have something else going for him yeah this could be another example

spk_0 of like some of these people are more kind of organizational right they run an organization

spk_0 others it may be more about who they are as people individually and you know one of the things

spk_0 that you see with the first rebellion not so much the second third fourth is Damon the first

spk_0 like to have famous knights around him that was a big part of kind of furnishing his image yeah

spk_0 so you know if Derek Fossaway was a knight who was very good at the sort of the martial side of

spk_0 things but not so good at sort of keeping to his oath and you know the the more chivalric side of

spk_0 things you know you could see someone like me list the monstrous being like you know hey no I need

spk_0 knights around me if I want to be a king but you know this is the kind of knight that peels to me

spk_0 as this kind of you know distrusted despised figure a typical part of a conspiracy slash cartel

spk_0 like this would be someone who is strong and intelligent that mean like a smart guy I mean like

spk_0 spy stuff right yeah I mean certainly especially by this point right he had been so long since

spk_0 the black fires were on westroes he soil and had a real following yeah I mean really not since the

spk_0 third you you really get the sense that the third rebellion was like the high water mark yes that

spk_0 was the closest they got since the first that you know they needed someone who knew the the political

spk_0 scene in westroes you know and it's also you know one of the things that I think we should keep our

spk_0 price for is like who are the golden companies friends exactly that's like we're going with this

spk_0 yes I'm glad you picked that up yeah and the fossil ways are are are good options although you know

spk_0 they're both our broom unfortunately sweat a lot of them off the board he sure did apple that is

spk_0 unfortunate the apple leader yeah so that's a great theory because we definitely they definitely need

spk_0 that in their group they need people that have connections to westroes because as you say they

spk_0 they their those connections have fallen off over the years the the bitter steel loyalists are probably

spk_0 gone or at least the ones that he had connected to oh yeah I mean like a whole you know at least one

spk_0 generation about two now yeah and that's part of why this is a real conquest not a rebellion that's

spk_0 why some people call it's it's sometimes referred to as the fifth black fire rebellion that's kind of

spk_0 a miss now we're then again so is the second but this is more but conquest I mean you know even compared

spk_0 like the second rebellion was failure on a military level but like you you know the one thing you

spk_0 could say is like Damon the second actually did have some powerful westro sea houses backing his

spk_0 playing yeah here it seems like entirely nothing doing west of the narrow sea yeah this is more like

spk_0 what the golden company is doing right now where they are coming in during chaos and they're going

spk_0 to if they look strong people will follow them because they don't want to fight them and so that

spk_0 might be the case here someone like Derek Bossawe guys like that are are planning that strategy

spk_0 and looking for to subvert or bribe or look for people they can turn and find like offers like let's

spk_0 say you join us now and we'll make you King a Lord Paramount of the reach things like that betray

spk_0 the Tyrells and you know the same exact thing that's happening the friends in the reach thing

spk_0 that we're talking about with that that is comes up so often with young grip like who is going to

spk_0 support the golden company in the reach now like is it the row ends is it the Tarles etc that's

spk_0 the kind of thing and it's interesting again that this is a house of the reach the fossil ways

spk_0 are a reach house again that is where the prime support for the black fires was and even if that's

spk_0 falling off a lot that's still you'd think that's still the place they would start again to look for

spk_0 help yeah unless something else obvious popped up elsewhere and of course they would do both yeah

spk_0 like you know ironwood like you said ironwood they were super tight with the black fires one of

spk_0 the most important major houses that had a recurring connection to them and so like thinking about

spk_0 places like that that you know that maybe this maybe fossil way had some sort of connection to them

spk_0 less likely but possible did you guys mention Franklin flowers Franklin flowers is a good example

spk_0 actually we didn't just because Everett Cooper brought that up the brown apple fossil that's

spk_0 a that's actually a very good point so to remind us of who that was frank and flowers is a member of

spk_0 the golden company current member of the golden company and he's someone that remembered conning

spk_0 him someone that's been in there for a while the bastard of cider home although he's he's an

spk_0 interesting case because he came over are seemingly you know because he has this like

spk_0 you know immediate rudge against the fossil waves and it's a little bit you know he he's reminds me a

spk_0 lot of like Raleigh Duckfield right yes where it's like they've got this like very close this is not

spk_0 a thing where like he inherited this thing from his father and his father and his father who like

spk_0 you know kept the banners and secret like ask down the story of you know the rightful king over

spk_0 the waves like no he's got a grudge and he's like looking for someone who can empower him to

spk_0 to deal with his brother yeah that makes a lot of sense and you wonder it's a chance that he's even

spk_0 descendant of of Derek Fossoway a bastard of Derek Fossoway yeah it's it's tricky because

spk_0 the there's also this whole tendency among the modern golden company to lie about your ancestry

spk_0 so you know that really like are there muds are there you know like you know all these like

spk_0 ancient you know strong fighter or Weber yeah yeah strong that's got to be alive a strong

spk_0 yes but this one yeah and but this guy flank and franklin flowers seems to have a grudge because

spk_0 he says as long as I get to kill some fossil waves maybe that's just something he worked himself

spk_0 up over but it sounds like it's personal damn yeah so that's interesting okay then alaco adaris the

spk_0 last one his nickname was the silver tongue he's a merchant prince which sets him apart from the

spk_0 rest because none of the others are merchant princes you can you can argue that merchant princes

spk_0 and pirates start to have some things in common after a while but I do imagine him a lot like when

spk_0 I think of a comp for him I think of Zaro Zohan Daxos does that kind of where your head goes as well

spk_0 actually I thought of a leery okay yeah that's nice fit yeah if we're if we're thinking of the band

spk_0 of nine like oceans eleven he's definitely the money yeah he's the money that's true right and it

spk_0 you know other people are like the the brawn or the the brains or whatever he's definitely the money

spk_0 you know because hey if you want to fight a war one of the many many things you're gonna need is

spk_0 a lot of financial resources because you know arms and armor cost money horses cost money food

spk_0 cost money clothing cost money ships cost money supplies cost money you need all of that stuff

spk_0 especially if you know you're going to launch this incredibly complicated amphibious assault on

spk_0 west roads yeah not to mention they're planned after west roads right they're gonna need to conquer

spk_0 all these other kingdom whichever kingdom they had their sights on whether it was valantis lease

spk_0 summer isles who knows but it was something and that is a you're right that requires a huge outlay of

spk_0 cash to get going so that also fits really well with the procession of events which we'll get into

spk_0 more detail later but the fact is they first took this the disputed lands which will like also

spk_0 we'll talk about more detail later but they next took Tyrosh which is what alaco wanted and he's the

spk_0 one that held on to his take from the band of nine longest he's the one that fell last after all of

spk_0 them yeah and he got Tyrosh and so Tyrosh was kind of became their base of operations in a sense and

spk_0 it makes sense that the guy that's funding things would get his money and his goal taken care of kind

spk_0 of early on right that fits like pay the pay the backer back his money and and very noticeably

spk_0 he didn't go to the steps down he doesn't seem like a warrior yeah you know he made very sure that he

spk_0 would be you know nice and and safe right up until he wasn't didn't pay attention to matters

spk_0 at close to the home yeah no one no one he was not taken out by a sword but it that way so

spk_0 that yeah they think it reminds me of Zaro is how you have someone that is not warlike necessarily

spk_0 and not that he wasn't for sure it just he doesn't seem like it with a name like the silver tongue

spk_0 and being a merchant prince it's just like you say he seems like the money man not the violent man

spk_0 he's he's totally fine with violence being done but it's not him specifically personally dealing

spk_0 it out he's paying other people to do that like a mob accountant or something yeah and so this guy

spk_0 actually actually I was I was gonna say he reminds me a lot of like Meyer Lansky oh yeah right

spk_0 a sort of you know more the sort of businessman gangster yeah he but also someone who was very good

spk_0 like convincing other people to do stuff organizationally which he would benefit from enormous

spk_0 that's a great comp yeah I love to listen to mafia podcast and I've been listening to some I

spk_0 recently listened to some about Meyer Lansky so that's fresh in my mind that's a great comp

spk_0 and like Zaro Zaro is just like flattery and was constantly giving Danny gifts and just trying

spk_0 to get what he wanted out of her by and never seemed to get and I mean eventually he got frustrated

spk_0 but he was just always just playing it off like oh you know you make me sad with your with this

spk_0 and that why not just sail around the go you know sail around you tea with me and drink from the wine

spk_0 of oh whatever he says oh his flowery like but it sounds like very silver you know I think of

spk_0 silver tongue I'm like this is the kind of stuff I'm saying very very flattering and also you get

spk_0 the sense someone who tremendously insincere right doxos's whole thing is that he's always like

spk_0 the thing that he claims to want is not never the thing that he actually wants yeah right because

spk_0 he's like you know oh Danny I'm so in love with you I'm totally not sexually interested you

spk_0 but it's like you know but I need to marry you because I want this dragon because I want

spk_0 good boy yeah you wonder like how would aliquo speak to mailey see this like say the nicest

spk_0 thing of like this guy is just so full of it's like you're you're frightening visit you just the

spk_0 most clever ways to call him frightening without calling him ugly you know just you know in terms of

spk_0 like you know how how much honor was there among thieves I definitely get the sense that like

spk_0 yeah they were they were going to use this guy for his money and like yeah he can have Tyrosh

spk_0 like I'm sure that mealous thought to himself every second he was around this guy I could

spk_0 crush your skull with my fear yeah and he and he probably was right about that yeah yeah just like

spk_0 give me an excuse I'll do it for fun yeah and then and then once he if he were able to take

spk_0 Westeros then he really wouldn't have to worry about aliquo it would be it would be like an

spk_0 alirio situation where they'd be like you better give us what we what we paid for or we're going to

spk_0 start sending a faceless man or what have you after you so if we summarize all that we have at least

spk_0 four cell sword captains there there's some uncertainty with with some of those characters

spk_0 there and one of them is crown king maelie's that is two pirates an emerging and as we said

spk_0 a merchant prince is there's some similarities to pirates there especially because they both have

spk_0 leets and then an exile night so I would guess that the cell sword companies the cell sword captain

spk_0 their their companies must have been pretty successful even though apart from the gold company

spk_0 of course none of them seem to still exist but we know if it's possible they're out there somewhere

spk_0 but yeah well I mean the sons are still you know that's true the son family is obviously

spk_0 you're right a going concern but as far as we know the rear at the good point there but as far as

spk_0 we know the rest of them if they have descendants that are active we're not aware of it of course

spk_0 some of them their names believe in other names so we wouldn't know but that's a lot of power they

spk_0 have it's a it's a variety of types of characters and a lot of it's very military oriented but

spk_0 I wonder how much when they started off in the steppestones I wonder how much

spk_0 action they had right how much fighting they had to do this is jumping ahead a little bit

spk_0 but I wonder if it wasn't already partially theirs because so many the pirate the steppestones

spk_0 is almost always in the hands pirates and so yeah that's a good question one of the sort of

spk_0 interesting questions obviously you know there's different groups of pirates right they don't

spk_0 always get along so how much did they have to sort of clear out the locals first because you know

spk_0 you definitely see in in the like long history of the war for the steppestones right different

spk_0 groups of pirates and privateers and you know official navies all kind of like warring for these little

spk_0 rocky harbors that nonetheless can like let them you know sneak and you know pirate chips in an out

spk_0 yeah the fact that like Jamie was talking about the ebony prince suggests he was on the ground fighting

spk_0 like some of them probably did get away right and especially the cell sales it's much easier if

spk_0 they get away they're gone yeah they can just take a boat you know they're gone they're not going

spk_0 to chase them to the baseless guiles or would have you like oh well they got away yeah yeah the

spk_0 the it's the fighting men especially if they're their cell sale fleets go away then their stuff

spk_0 then they have to just win or die yeah that's a good point so yeah we have as far as our

spk_0 document goes this is a 20 page document and we are roughly on page nine so let's let we've got a

spk_0 little more time let's start with the beginning of the procession of events and then we'll call it

spk_0 an episode and come back but let's talk about since we've been focused on the eso side let's

spk_0 stick with that we'll come back to the west row side when we probably next time so on the western

spk_0 side of the narrow sea you've got this formation of the golden of the band nine now there's a large

spk_0 gap here we don't know what led to this we don't know who was particularly responsible it's of course

spk_0 it seems it's tempting to think that someone like alaqlo the the guy who's a good talker would have

spk_0 would be really important in terms of bringing them together and convincing them this was possible

spk_0 but still no matter who did it it's quite a feat sell swords and capsels or captains and pirates like

spk_0 trusting each other to carve out kingdoms under uh you know to have to stick to this agreement and

spk_0 what the heck is the tree of crown the thing they met under to make this pledge what on earth is that

spk_0 and why is it in the disputed land the wall place a place that first of all the fact that it's

spk_0 called the disputed lands it needs some conversation like the natives call it that I kind of doubt it

spk_0 but it's a place that doesn't know kings and queens very well it's a place that has rejected

spk_0 kings and queens it's a place that has arcons and and whatever they're called in volantis yeah

spk_0 places like that they're not they don't have to try arcs yeah that that's look my mind there for

spk_0 second so kings and queens aren't a big thing in esso so the tree of crowns is it's a strange

spk_0 content might be where these dreams go to die it might be like an homage to the fact that they

spk_0 don't have kings and queens but I would love to hear your thoughts on it it's a very evocative name

spk_0 yeah I mean I get the sense that like almost you know if you were going to like

spk_0 uh you know mount a stage production of the story right that it's like aliquor whoever had

spk_0 that there was some tree that they agreed to meet under and he had crowns put there and like each

spk_0 one was taking one off the tree that's so cool this needs to be a tv show or something we need to

spk_0 see that on screen that's great idea well we'll see what you know how far blood of the dragon get

spk_0 one day we make it there yeah you never know it definitely seem you know it has this sort of

spk_0 slightly mythic feel to that they're all kind of like making this pledge oh actually you know

spk_0 what it reminds me of a little bit the romance of the three kingdom look I'm not super

spk_0 familiar with that I mean I know it's the Chinese yeah so there's an oath the oath of the peach

spk_0 that's what he got it from son of a bitch you nailed it all right tell us so in the romance of

spk_0 the three kingdoms right which is explaining this warring states period these three generals uh

spk_0 Lu bay guanyu and jian fei take this oath in a peach guard that they will all be sworn brothers from

spk_0 here on out and that they will all you know band together to uh defeat this the yellow turban

spk_0 uh rebellion and then later take on try to conquer the all of china right and then

spk_0 it didn't end well that's some there's a there's a thing they have in common yeah yeah so three of crowns

spk_0 oath of the peach garden it's got this sort of sense of like these these guys coming together to

spk_0 you know pledge undying loyalty and that's gonna last right up until the moment it doesn't

spk_0 right when you know the moment in the heist when reservoir docks right when everyone pulls their guns

spk_0 on on everyone else right there's the standoff right on you you got uh you definitely got some

spk_0 attention here in the chat I can see that uh Jim let's say let's say hey to give a shout out to

spk_0 our buddy Jim aka uh something like a lawyer who is he says I'm getting shades of the oaths of

spk_0 the peach orchard here so I think he typed that into the chat before you thought of it so he was

spk_0 he was right there with you you guys were on the same page great lines think of exactly exactly well done

spk_0 y'all that was great uh live stuff happening right in front of our eyes we didn't plan for that

spk_0 so that's a great idea um that that fits perfectly and of course we know George has to be aware of that

spk_0 he's a uh a fan of history and and great stories like that fits too well to to not be

spk_0 om to it fits too well to throw that idea away so let's move on a little bit though we've got the

spk_0 another interesting topic that I want to think about the the change to the gold come this is

spk_0 something we talked about in prior episodes but I want to think about the middle portion here

spk_0 what we've talked about before was what the golden company light was like at the beginning versus

spk_0 what they're like now and how they've changed which is to say that now a days they're more of a

spk_0 evolved fighting force at the beginning they were surely mostly just nights and and

spk_0 westeroscy style of fighting but over generations of living in ss fighting against

spk_0 the thracchi and other free companies and all these other things they would learn and adapt

spk_0 and change for example they have a large archery contingent led by black balak which almost certainly

spk_0 was not part of the original batch of a golden company all oh oh maybe it was to a smaller degree

spk_0 a bigger thing is the elephants right there were no elephants in the original golden company as far

spk_0 as we know certainly got from fighting the volunteers yeah so here we have roughly uh it's not

spk_0 the midway point obviously golden company had been around since about two twelve so they've

spk_0 shown by the time the golden company invades during the nine penny kings war would be about

spk_0 50 almost 50 years after they're founding and so now a day is there about 90 years after they're

spk_0 funding so it's close to the halfway point yeah it's been a couple generations the the people who

spk_0 are like ancestral golden company are now what you know potentially three generations deep yes

spk_0 but also a lot of people would have died and had to you know be replaced so i wonder i mean i

spk_0 kind of doubt that that that this level this aspect of the golden company had elephants but they

spk_0 might have i don't know that they would have bar used elephants on the stepstones that seems like

spk_0 the kind of thing they would if they had them they would wait to use them in west roast proper it

spk_0 doesn't seem like the kind of island fighting isn't really for elephants so i don't know about that

spk_0 it's a transportation would be too difficult but maybe but just just just for fun think about

spk_0 maylees the mantras on an elephant that's not as terrifying as mega or on belarian but hey

spk_0 in a dragonless world that's as close as we can get like what's next what's the next closest thing

spk_0 maylees on a shark or on a kraken maylees riding the battle on a kraken that's pretty sweet yeah and

spk_0 they definitely um i mean by this point they they must have picked up the close-in spear fighting

spk_0 of the unsullied oh yeah yeah that's true because they fought they fought them already it's a

spk_0 so hard so this is probably you're right some sort of intermediary uh state yeah i wonder if they

spk_0 took special preparations to prepare for the fact that they'd be doing this island popping like

spk_0 you know planning how to outfit yourself for such a battle or such a campaign is possibly quite

spk_0 different than anything they've done before certainly very different from most west rossi like there's

spk_0 some examples of that but not many incredibly complicated yeah we can see from uh you know it dance

spk_0 with dragons right they're landing on one coast of a big continent right and even then they are

spk_0 spread the fuck out and not all the ships have arrived yeah uh and here you know they're trying to

spk_0 take all of these tiny little islands and you know a lot of island hopping and you know

spk_0 so it's not just like one offloading of ships it's a lot of like okay get on board the ship go to

spk_0 this island take this island get back on the ship take the next you know it's without any

spk_0 communication right like in a normal like continental battle you send a fast rider to send news or

spk_0 or even a raven maybe but these are islands yeah you can't that level of communication isn't possible

spk_0 you can't just send a rider to another island to coordinate on whether you've been successful or

spk_0 what to do next it's that yeah it's really yeah you do is is send fast ships with message flags really

spk_0 and this messiness is going to be a big part of what we talk about in part two and it's a big part

spk_0 of why septan meribald is so traumatized because this type of fighting is right it's more difficult it's

spk_0 more stressful it's less certain and it's it's in a foreign land too like that's another major

spk_0 difference about this war is that most of the wars in the history of west ross were civil wars or

spk_0 fighting dorn right or a kingdom versus kingdom i mean i'm i guess in the more recent history of

spk_0 west ross fighting dorn but in the long history of west ross it's just in fighting between kingdom

spk_0 and kingdom or within in a kingdom having west rossi peasant levies taken outside of west ross is

spk_0 i can't think of another time that's happened you know we'll we'll talk about this more when we

spk_0 when we get to this but yeah it seems like they were on those islands for a while yeah not a short time

spk_0 just because you don't normally get you know epidemic diseases you know if it's just a brief campaign

spk_0 that suggests you know settling down for for a while i definitely agree with that so there's

spk_0 it's it's it's a big part of it there's probably like you say there's probably part of that is due to

spk_0 uncertainty in the lack of communication you have squadrons of men or groups of men that don't

spk_0 know what their orders are and they're cut off from the main body which means they're not going to be

spk_0 supplied which means there you go that's where the disease and stuff can really really hit hard

spk_0 and then they're in court that then they'll say they find their way back to the main group

spk_0 and then they infect the rest of their fellows or some of them yeah just it's so there's so many

spk_0 way things that can go wrong in a situation like this like you said that is something we're going to

spk_0 age for that because i think it's super fascinating super interesting and i also wanted to give you

spk_0 all little tease of what we're going to be talking about in the next episode in addition to that

spk_0 of course as i mentioned at the beginning a big part of this is the aftermath the coordination of

spk_0 people like john airin and blackfish and australian peter belich's dad all these people came together

spk_0 tywin aries we didn't get a chance to talk about any of these guys in this episode and we have a

spk_0 ton of quotes we pulled but most of them are part two because they describe the action in the

spk_0 in the back and forth so we probably pulled like 15 or 20 quotes but i think only three of them were

spk_0 in part one here so ashaya will be reading a lot more quotes for y'all next time around

spk_0 so let us say thanks to everybody thanks you to y'all who came live and watched and

spk_0 who upvoted the episode and added to the great discussion it looked like the chat was was moving

spk_0 very rapidly lots you guys had great comments and things that were added in i wish i could have

spk_0 watched all of that i'll have to go back and look at it quite a lot quite a lot of it was off topic

spk_0 okay well still i bet it was fun oh yeah more fun cool excellent another character is going to come

spk_0 up a lot is brian surprisingly next episode because brian is kind of our windowed after mass

spk_0 and it's not just the windowed aftermath of the war five kings because she encounters people who

spk_0 fought in the war of nine pence and that is like septembera ball prime example but he's not the only one

spk_0 so i'm excited to share some of these other details with you that y'all might not have been aware of

spk_0 i think most you remember septembera ball but maybe not some of these other characters

spk_0 all right so thanks to ashaya for doing so many things at once as always thank you to everybody like

spk_0 i said everybody who watched and liked and subscribed and shared thank you to anyone who's

spk_0 to subscribe to our patreon and steven's patreon steven please tell everyone remind everybody what

spk_0 you've been up to what you've got coming i know we did that at the beginning but if you have

spk_0 different things to share or if you want to just um exercise go for it uh so um john five of storm

spk_0 resorts is live on the patreon uh right now um next up uh i've got a you know i want to start my

spk_0 dunking egg essays you know which is going to be very much about the whole kind of black fire

spk_0 elements i've got some like leftover projects from back in the day where like i had the whole

spk_0 life of the uh high spider that like i never i was going to pull together into one document

spk_0 and give a good edit because there's like some continuity problems um never did the third part

spk_0 of hour of the wolf so like i've got some some projects to do uh while i'm taking a little bit of a

spk_0 break uh from storm resorts but like once i i've you know once i i get my anchoring for storm

spk_0 resorts back uh the big thing is going to be uh that like push to uh the red wedding because it's

spk_0 only eleven chapters away whoa we're getting close huh right on i think we're getting there and maybe

spk_0 April i'm not sure i have to look at our schedule but maybe march but yeah a little ways away for us too

spk_0 okay well thank you very much to even uh we'll work offline to figure out when to do part two but it won't

spk_0 be seven or eight months like last time it'll be more like a few weeks or one month perhaps most

spk_0 likely oh absolutely cool excellent yeah i mean the episode's already written it's not like one of

spk_0 the things where i'm almost done no it's done sometimes my it's almost done's turned into months but

spk_0 this one it is done so there's no oh maybe the less little bit will take me months nope i might add

spk_0 a few more notes but this is good to go already uh so yeah that's exciting and let me say thanks to

spk_0 all of our other folks who support us and give some patreon shout outs and some audioses so thanks

spk_0 to everybody uh first off wait wait wait wait wait wait some audioses audioses is that yeah audio

spk_0 like like audio's plural yeah audio oh yeah i see audio that's a serial so it's a very loud serial audio

spk_0 stays crispy in the way so our periods of the realm include the mysterious br our hand of the king

spk_0 lord steven stark titles titles hand of queen isheah who is known as the best lord jim the fortuitous of

spk_0 wars and politics of isenthire blog is warden of the west and a big member of our chat today hey jim

spk_0 lord jord storm storm'sville the cunning is lord of the chili ad and warden of east

spk_0 cabethian frozen lord of the bricks and castle crimson light defender of the old gods and warden

spk_0 north lord brendan lannister is the bloodline ruler of castle everrower and warden of south

spk_0 lord james tuddle is king of the steppestones on the narrow sea commander of the royal fleet consisting

spk_0 of the narrow fleet led by flagship corrections and the bloodstone fleet led by flagship prince dami

spk_0 he's wondering why it is these people are having such trouble holding the steppestone that

spk_0 hasn't been any trouble for him and he's controlling the narrow sea at the same time well show him how

spk_0 it's done lord james king beyond the wall sydney jessie the fallborn lord of blue spring and

spk_0 mohunted forest wielded dagger of dragon glass and the valerian steel blade red frost he cannot

spk_0 understand why anyone would want to live on an island chain when there's a perfectly good

spk_0 beyond the wall area to live in some people ladies sarah connelly is the willful she says

spk_0 with beyond measure is man's greatest treasure treasure treasure what did i say treasure

spk_0 and she is jenny's patron white walkers include a ray of flint of the mountain flints captured by

spk_0 the weeper only to be raised in the valley of the water blue eyes and golden memories

spk_0 Alexander gray blood is first for the first man now crowned in ice called silence bringer

spk_0 wood blinder and the snow of night wielder of the ice forged great sword pale frost our small

spk_0 council includes lord daniel the sneaky russian master of ships lord benjen of house hornwood master

spk_0 laws lord fabian flowers the bastard of green shield master of coin and lord yohan of house orcoes

spk_0 called shadowhawk master and whispers our lord and ladies and their castles include lord dire

spk_0 excuse me lady diaries of castle knocky the alpha patron lord dan of the red mountains and

spk_0 castle great bell is breaker of the second stone Gregor the toasty is lord of the red fort

spk_0 lord ryan of castle stone gate is guardian of the rocky mountain pass

spk_0 ashland winter is the hawks eye lady of castle skyfall lady mckele moon acre is leader of the

spk_0 werewood protector of alliance the lord of the halls of castle hill crest is wielder of the

spk_0 valerian steel machete ever lord of allister wittaker the lord of the donald lord bemi stuggle

spk_0 bunny is guardian ranger of the hidden hundred acre werewood dual wielder of the valerian

spk_0 short swords glorious morning and little light wise sharp shooter of the werewood and ironwood

spk_0 laminated longbow tod van oven when you fear things cannot get worse snuggle bunny enters the fray

spk_0 the bastard of the wolf's wood is first forcer of the old gods sworn to house ironware wood

spk_0 listen for the silence lady leonikelly of wolf island is protectors of the steel hold

spk_0 casey stark is of house acres lady k of house archer is lady of the earth dog hall

spk_0 huntress of wolf's wood of the wolf's wood and guardian of maddie squirrels bayon the mighty

spk_0 dire one lady ray win of house dill's dain is the star spear peter rivers is the pale dragon and

spk_0 air to blood raven and lady carlin carry of castle stone sharp whose horses shot in blaring steel

spk_0 is lady rider of the rising kings justice search or the steady is wielder of the valerian steel

spk_0 blade fate and because we've got our audio situation better worked out now shayak and read her

spk_0 queen's high council yeah we've got bloody bend blackwood master of whispers or bae a star as lady

spk_0 of waves and mistress of ships captain of the iron shadow cat in the shadows we bear our quads

spk_0 catcher in the wise of house tronheim master of point grandmaster emlizabeth

spk_0 middle daughter of leonimormont first lady to forge bolt silver and blirion still steel link

spk_0 and lora boros the lady of infinity and master of laws our lord commander is myriam r we have

spk_0 sir glennon of house leon called lion cloak our longest tenured white sword sir deen the white

spk_0 is night of the black star sir jord of house peps is the beverage night gregg or snow is

spk_0 called snow bear a bastard of winter fell sir gen seaworth is night of the southern snows and

spk_0 lisa is water witch of dorn and we also have our queens guard per se interween led by lord

spk_0 captain commander haima helment the cell sword sentinel Alexander of house traities from the

spk_0 feet of dune i must not fear here is the mind killer sir rambo night of house gannon first blood

spk_0 sir leon of house walk house walker wielder of the two valerian steel blades fire and ice and the

spk_0 wherewood bow rain amber the adamant the night of the miss and mother of squids the wintry wolverine

spk_0 we finish what you begin and finally norneco norneco norneco from i'm not sure but i've said it both

spk_0 ways to cover all bases red red wedding band includes sir newt of the rock lead luteist wielding his

spk_0 wherewood loot uh doer the uh doemer note he's explained how to pronounce it to me in an email

spk_0 and i'm trying after the doemer note i hope that's a that right it's a loot with where would

spk_0 loot with the leery and steel strings now that is a fine instrument our beard guard is led by lord

spk_0 commander jorick the golden backed up by sir joshva ocarth the white oak lady Rita of the copper

spk_0 man the unbound dance the fervor sir jeth warden of the ac wielder of triad the multifaceted

spk_0 beard of platinum red and brown his motto state frosty and sir tim cort gyle is mad boy the western

spk_0 desert last but not least is our history of westroes night's watch and that is commanded by lord

spk_0 bengian umber the silent giant who i'm i'm doing this from memory until i find it i hope it's in that

spk_0 right yeah lord commander bengian umber the silent giant wielder of the valerian still great sword

spk_0 winters kiss backed up by first builder mego or snow aka mego or the cool the fire and snow

spk_0 first ranger source star staleca of house brammercy thanks to everyone who helped contribute

spk_0 there were of as usual contributions from flick and facebook a lot of the usual suspects including

spk_0 nina and uh a lot of our other usual contributors and thanks for that thanks for the great questions

spk_0 and if you have questions based on this episode well that's one of the great things about the

spk_0 fact we're going two episodes is we can catch those questions and handle them during the next

spk_0 so until that is until that time comes when the next episode begins whatever we figure that out

spk_0 we'll see you then and i'll also see you on sunday for the return of valerian redis we are getting

spk_0 into the first four chapters of star msords and we're looking forward to that so until then

spk_0 you know what to do folks valerian redis

War of the Ninepenny Kings (5th Blackfyre Rebellion)

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