Culture
THE REUNION | S3 BONUS
In this bonus episode of Snap the Podcast, hosts Megan Thompson and Lucy reunite to reflect on their journey from college roommates to podcast co-hosts. They delve into their early friendship, the cha...
THE REUNION | S3 BONUS
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
spk_0
And it's here. The day has arrived. Welcome back everybody. Did we think we'd ever be here?
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Nope. Welcome to Snap the podcast. I'm your host Megan Thompson. And this is Snaped.
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The Q&A. The reunion. The reunion. Snaped.
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Hello Lucy. How's it feel to be in the hot seat today? I feel ready.
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Ready to wrap up Snaped. I feel ready to wrap it up and to just tell your truth.
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Tell my truth, respond to the speculation, put everything out in the open, clear the air and wrap it up.
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Wrap it up. I'm Megan. I am the production supervisor for Snap the podcast.
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Ever since day one. Day zero. When it was called how Greek life failed me.
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Oh my god, it was called that. I forgot about that. Yeah.
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I mean, it's still a good title. It's still a good title, but Snaped is so much better.
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So speaking of early on Snaped, and I think that we should start this episode by talking about the start of Snaped a little,
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but I think we should go way way back to because I mean, when I say that I've been here since day one,
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I mean, since before even our first day at college. And I think that it's worth going through beginning to how we ended up here
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because it's kind of funny. So Lucy and I first met via Facebook. We both got into Maryland.
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I am from a little town in Maryland. Lucy is from the Big Apple. And we both went,
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we decided to get Maryland and we met on Facebook messenger in one of those Facebook groups for like find your roommate.
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And I remember I thought you were so cool. Well, we definitely hit off. We were on a roll.
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We were on a roll. You were cool. I thought you were so cool. I remember telling my friend about you. I'm like, oh my gosh.
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Like this is going to be it. Like this is my roommate. I think this one I'm going to live with. This is heart.
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And then you ghost being. Yeah. And whatever she likes, they love you.
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I ghosted it wrong. I then the first day of college.
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No, you missed that. You did you miss why I ghosted you?
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I didn't because you met someone else. I met somebody else. Yeah, it was in between two people.
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Yeah. And you said you chose her? Well, she was from California. I wanted to live in California.
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Wait, so you chose her? I thought you just got wrapped in. No, I chose her.
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For what? You didn't know this? No, I thought you just got like wrapped in.
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How do you think I got? No, I made a choice. Well, it wasn't like one or the other. Well, clearly what?
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I was talking to a lot of people. I was playing a lot of people. But it wasn't like,
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I don't know if you remember if it came down to between you and her.
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But I do remember you living in New York City and her living in Southern California.
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And I was like, I'd rather live in Southern California. Like, like, I like, I chose wrong.
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Michaela, if you're listening, no, I love you. Don't dox her. Why would it dox her?
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Michaela from Southern California.
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If you're listening, I love you and I appreciate our time.
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But I think I think we ended up in the right spot here. No, but I'm so glad that I was with who I was with my roommate, Gemma.
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I agree. It was perfect that it ended up the way it was and that I did ghosted you.
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But now we're on the funny, there's now this story really bands because
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we ran into each other. Oh my god. No, it was in the dorm meeting. Remember on the first day in our dorms,
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we had like an all-door meeting where it was like with the RAs, we saw each other and your Gemma, I was with Michaela.
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Yeah. And I was like, that's the fucking girl I ghosted. That's the girl, oh my god, she lives next door to me. That's the girl I ghosted.
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I didn't know that you knew right away, but now I didn't know that you knew right away. I knew right away too.
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We shared a wall.
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So freshman year comes and goes. Well, I had a friend crush on your friend group the whole time. Yeah. I didn't have a friend crush on yours.
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It's funny that you had a friend crush on my friend group because like I thought you were one of like the cool girls.
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Like, do you know what I mean by that? I thought you guys were down to earth.
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We were below the earth. We were the dirt people. No, no, but I like that you guys smoked. And we were funny.
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We were, yeah, you were funny. And you guys were always laughing. Yeah.
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In the elevator going someplace. We were always going to smoke weed.
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Right. Or the dining hall after smoking weed.
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Because I never joined Greek life. I never even considered it. And that's not necessarily because I thought no, no, I thought it was dumb.
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I thought it was dumb. I actually think I've never wanted to join it at first.
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I started wanting to join it after you joined. And after I saw what began on four.
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What did you start to see? The second semester. The parties, the plans, the fun.
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That's when that was the first time I was like, fuck. It's fun to dress up.
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But it's also, it's access to like a part of college that's so marketed and desirable.
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And even me who from the beginning was like that stupid.
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Like I thought like from the beginning I thought that it was the things that it ended up being really being.
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But even that so as soon as I saw what it gave people in college, I wanted it too.
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It didn't matter that I knew it was X, Y, and Z.
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It was the social access that it got you that you yearn for at a time.
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When in the first few weeks of college it's like so overwhelming and it's all on your face.
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And you meet people inevitably because you have to sometimes.
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But then it kind of stagnates and it's like, alright, I'm here now. Now what? I want to like branch out.
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And that's when it gets really hard to branch out. And that's what I think Greek life really provides.
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I had like plans in the dining hall.
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Yes. And you were always like people wanted to just die talking to parties.
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The friend group that you were on BSL, I mean, as you know, that was the same friend group I had all four years.
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Who eventually joined.
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Who, yeah, who you eventually joined later on.
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But freshman year would me would be so happy.
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Damn, well you really did it. You really joined.
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Not when say you just joined you shaped.
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You infiltrated and you shaped part of it later on.
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Right. It wouldn't have been the same without you later on.
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Right.
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Also because you were my first girl ally.
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The friend group we're talking about was also a boys.
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And I would never ever want to be in that situation again in my life.
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But, Chinese.
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Actually, I know the Chinese aren't listening.
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The Chinese are not listening. They've never listened to one episode.
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Fuck you, Chinese.
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So anyway, freshman year ends and we go over the summer.
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You have what seems to be one of the worst summers of your life.
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You were snapped.
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And I was sad.
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And you were sad and everything went downhill.
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I was sad.
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But, went back.
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But you didn't know that.
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I didn't know that.
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We weren't keeping up by that.
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We weren't in touch by that.
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No, we weren't.
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And it was like.
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Well, we saw each other.
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And my roommate relationship was deteriorating a little bit.
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And so I was in a place of feeling a little bit lost as well going into sophomore year.
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Right.
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And you were feeling lost because you were snapped.
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Also, I was living in this house.
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And that.
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That was just awful.
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I think regardless of if I had been snapped or not,
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I think I would have had an awful, awful time regardless of that house.
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Being in a quad.
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I was so overstimulated.
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I had no privacy.
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Literally nowhere.
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No privacy.
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How can you call that home as your home?
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That was my home.
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And that was my home.
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Like I did not ever, like it was a home.
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Mm-hmm.
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Ever.
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It's sophomore year.
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We are on the Caledon Mall.
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And we run into each other in between classes.
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Like.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's like we're walking right towards each other.
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Mm-hmm.
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Like.
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Is it the first time we see each other this time?
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It's the first time we see each other.
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At this point, I need to get out of my dorm.
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And you were in the house miserable for your life.
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And by that point, you've been snapped.
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And you felt ostracized by everybody.
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Yeah, I was felt so alienated.
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Yeah.
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And I am like, hey, Lucy.
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Oh my god.
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And I said, I said to you, how are you?
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Like, how are you?
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How's the story?
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Like, how's the story?
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And you literally said to me right then on the mall.
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Like for the first, like we barely had spoken.
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And one of the first things that made me like, it's awful.
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It's actually going real.
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Like, I'm actually need to get out of the house.
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Like, that was one of the first things to get out of the house.
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And I was dying to tell someone who did wasn't in it.
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I bet.
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And I, because I had never joined.
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So you're like, okay, she's.
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That didn't have all the propaganda.
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Right.
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I wasn't going to tell you that that's like normal.
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Because I had the opposite reaction.
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I was like, wow, we're going to need to discuss this further.
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Because I need to know.
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I need to know everything about why this is going badly.
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Because that place looks nuts.
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Because I also was so intrigued.
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Right.
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I'm like, what do you mean it's going badly?
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It looks so fun.
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No.
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So we hung out like like the night night.
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Like that night.
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It was urgent.
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It was urgent.
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And that was like the beginning.
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That was the beginning of.
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I would say that that was one of the big, that was like the origin of like snapped.
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The idea that when you tell somebody else.
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Oh, yeah.
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That happens.
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Right.
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What happened?
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You need to.
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The reaction is so different.
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It's so different.
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When you tell somebody that was like.
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Totally.
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Oh.
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Like, you need to surround yourself as much as possible to people outside the group.
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And that was like.
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Yeah.
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Because I was immediately like, what do you mean you've got a bunch of girls commenting on your Instagram?
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This cryptic message.
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Right.
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Like, means that you're a slut.
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That sounds like hell on earth.
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Right.
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We decided to move in together pretty much within like a week of that.
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Because I was going to stick it out for one more semester maybe because I was in, I had the lease.
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Right.
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I thought I couldn't get out of it.
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I was slowly, I was sneakily searching.
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You know, getting out is a process.
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It's not a single act as Alexander Stein puts it in her book, tear 11 brainwashing.
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You know, it's.
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There might be a lot of false starts is how is what you got.
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I mean, it's like an abusive relationship.
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Right.
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It takes an average of seven times.
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Right.
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I was like looking online, a dorm, you know, because you need an escape plan.
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You can't just get out.
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So that's when we move in together.
spk_0
No, no, no.
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First I have, first I move out.
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You help me move out.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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I help you move out this for already.
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How was the house?
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Well, that was the condition as I would help you move out.
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But I needed to see it.
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I need to see the pink palace.
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What do you think?
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It was scary.
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I was prepared to be wild.
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I was prepared to feel like dammit must be terrible if you're moving out of this heaven.
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Because I thought that that's what it was.
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Like that's what I thought that the pink.
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But when you go in, it's like this is so unnatural.
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This is not a home in any way, shape or form.
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This is somebody else.
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It's like I'm living in the White House.
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Yeah.
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Like that's what it was.
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Like, but a pink White House that is filled with people that are watching, watching, watching
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every move.
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And I'm in a quad with the quad was that's, but that's when I saw the quad.
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And I also saw the girls in the quad that were looking at us like bugs on the wall.
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It did.
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Literally in pity.
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Like we were like, no, I think they pity me.
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They were like, I think they were like, oh, well, she, it's probably for best.
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Like she's very mentally ill.
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And I was at the point where I didn't care.
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I mean, not that I didn't care.
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I can't say that I didn't care.
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But I, I would have rather been out and dealt with the repercussions than staying.
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And I wasn't indoctrinated enough.
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I was, I was, I never held a leadership position.
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They pushed me to the breaking point quick enough.
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Quick enough.
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And I understand because I don't think that you're the type of person I could have ever thrived
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in that environment regardless of what they did to you.
spk_0
I know, but could you imagine if they didn't push me to that point and I would like end it up staying in that?
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I think you, I think you would have left a different way.
spk_0
No, it's hard to say in high day because knowing you now, it seems so far from something that you would be involved in.
spk_0
But I also think at the time you were always going to be a little too theatrical.
spk_0
Yeah, I was always going to be a little too loud.
spk_0
Yeah, a little too much for what they needed you to be involved.
spk_0
Yeah, I never, yeah.
spk_0
And I don't, I would, that recruitment would have been hard for me.
spk_0
Oh, I, that might have pushed you over the edge.
spk_0
Oh, my God, recruitment.
spk_0
They would have, they would have put you in the basement after the first, like, you live there.
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Because I wouldn't have done my hair.
spk_0
No, you would have, you would have said it would have been half straight in my back, the back wouldn't be straightened.
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And that would have been it.
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And they could be, like, they'd all be standing up talking and be like, sitting on the windowsill.
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Like, I really need a snack.
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Like, no, literally.
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Snap.
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Were you disappointed by HBO's Bama Rush Doc?
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Like, don't you want to actually find out what goes on behind the scenes at recruitment?
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Well, snapped has got you covered.
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In season two's recruitment special, we delve into the process that determines which potential new members make the final cut into a sorority's new pledge class.
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You can listen to the season two of recruitment special anywhere you listen to podcasts.
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And here's a quick trailer.
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People look at recruitment, you know, they think it's just thrown together.
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Mm-hmm.
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You've gone through recruitment of people who you talk to, not a coincidence.
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Trust the process.
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A lot of the rules about recruitment are kept from the members.
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They kept telling me, like, do not tell girls that we score them in number of them.
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They ran, like, analytics that looked like fucking election night, but I overheard them saying, like, we need to recruit if many pretty girls, if we can.
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And then the rest, we need to, like, make quota.
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What comments stuck out most to you?
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The one that stuck out to me the most was this girl is Jewish, but it's okay because she doesn't have a big nose.
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I was not allowed to talk about anything I read and be advisor.
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She was in the room with us. She was like, yeah, after this, I take all of these slips and I shred them in my apartments and no one can ever find it.
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Trust the process.
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I was diversity chair at the time.
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So the amount of, like, women of color I talk to, anybody of color we always talk to me always.
spk_0
Because you were the diversity chair.
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Yeah, and then I also remember one girl emailing us in the PHA and saying that she's Asian in all 16 houses she got matched with someone Asian for the first round of recruitment.
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Just trust the process.
spk_0
So the reason we're here today is because there were a lot of questions that were left unanswered by the season and wanted to give listeners a chance to have a little bit of input.
spk_0
The season three was like a big investigation.
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What there was less of in season three was your perspective, which is good because I think that it was a bigger story, but I think that your perspective is still desired.
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And I think that's what we're doing here today is going to go a little bit behind the scenes.
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We have a big list of listener questions here.
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These are actually almost all listener questions except for a few by me.
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Ready to get started? Ready to dive in? Let's do it.
spk_0
So what made you take the leap and start the podcast?
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So I think what made me take the leap and start the podcast was how strongly I felt about the topic and how I could start to see the gas lighting and just clearly seeing the moral.
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Like what I thought was morally right and wrong.
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Do you feel like as you got farther out of it, you were more prepared to speak out about it?
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Definitely.
spk_0
In season one, I mean, season three even more so than I was with season one.
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Before it was a podcast, there was a video series.
spk_0
Yeah, like it became a podcast.
spk_0
Well, but you know how it became well how it started as the video series was I contacted the writer and director of slug the play Katie Cup yellow.
spk_0
And I met with her for coffee because she created this amazing play that inspired me to let the play I highly recommend it.
spk_0
And she and I had coffee together and she was that mate this video series and she really empowered me was like, like I told her about the like the chant of how to tell you got him out of the fuck are we how to spot Cox out with the other piece and she's like make that the theme song.
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She was like do something with this.
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So her validation was incredible.
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And then I took that podcast course and that's when I turned it from a video series to a podcast series.
spk_0
I remember that because I was like this is really how to immerse the audience.
spk_0
But wasn't that when you went abroad?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So that was later though.
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, I started recording it as a pod a video series for a full year.
spk_0
It was not a podcast before it like because a full year that I remember that we were living together.
spk_0
It was something else.
spk_0
I was telling music videos for it, which was nuts nuts, but that's that's what I wanted to go back to.
spk_0
I was like my point thing in like medicine beer state to my face.
spk_0
I think that the that was nuts nuts and the whole different.
spk_0
But yeah, that goes back to what I was feeling is it's like I think what it started was a lot of more healing for you.
spk_0
It was all healing at first.
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It wasn't supposed to be.
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Not all it was the beginning.
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It wasn't supposed to be something where other people could be like, oh, I relate to this.
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It was like this is my power.
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It was like this is my power.
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Yeah, this is what happened.
spk_0
You knew that obviously this you weren't the only one this was happening to, but at the time it wasn't like Greek life as a whole is so fucked up.
spk_0
It was like this.
spk_0
Well, I knew it was.
spk_0
You knew it was, but I don't think that was the message of the thing.
spk_0
It was like this this slut shaming this sorority.
spk_0
It's not right.
spk_0
It was what happened to you, but I think it just blew up from there.
spk_0
It got so much bigger.
spk_0
It's like the hazing wasn't addressed in the first season.
spk_0
Like there was so much that you know it in the sense it was you were hazed.
spk_0
Yes, but it wasn't like there was so much more.
spk_0
There's and there still is so much right there is there's still so much covered because it's extensive.
spk_0
You had to cut a lot because if you wanted to talk about everything that was fucked up with Greek life,
spk_0
you could literally make a weekly podcast about it, which someone should fund.
spk_0
Anyway.
spk_0
Were you scared of snapped season one being unsuccessful?
spk_0
I wasn't worried about it being unsuccessful because that's not why I was making it.
spk_0
I wasn't making it to be a success.
spk_0
Whereas with season three, I was making it to be a success.
spk_0
To be a success.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
It wasn't the six.
spk_0
I knew I always knew it would have a audience.
spk_0
Well, yeah, why remember us tapping a lot of conversations about how positive or negative that audience would be?
spk_0
Because for a long time, we thought that it was going to be just a lot of backlash from.
spk_0
We had these long conversations.
spk_0
I remember that.
spk_0
But I think that what I learned from it was that I already had heard those opinions.
spk_0
That's 100% true.
spk_0
And so I was already determined in my head that those are not opinions.
spk_0
You had already been through the worst that you weren't as much worried about.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
You were so anti-hug life to that point that it was like.
spk_0
I don't care.
spk_0
But it's different if it was right away.
spk_0
Definitely.
spk_0
It would have been also different.
spk_0
It was like the video series where it was like I think that was so glad I didn't do the video series.
spk_0
You being like uber vulnerable in a way that wasn't necessarily for the art.
spk_0
It wasn't thought out yet.
spk_0
There wasn't enough time.
spk_0
I don't think in between.
spk_0
No.
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Because it was.
spk_0
Yeah.
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I needed to tell it from a bird's eye view.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So that said with seasons one through three being wrapped up.
spk_0
How do you feel about people asking for season four or do you let me let me break this question out?
spk_0
Do you want to do a season four?
spk_0
Yes or no?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I mean, I think this could go on for seasons and seasons.
spk_0
There are plenty of stories to tell and plenty of stories.
spk_0
Plenty of people willing to tell those stories.
spk_0
And I remember one of the other questions or someone mentioned like what do you need for a season four?
spk_0
Is it the content and like no, the content is not the issue.
spk_0
It's the funding.
spk_0
I mean, I can see some of the snapped Instagram stuff.
spk_0
I'm like it's like the inbox is full.
spk_0
There's plenty of content there.
spk_0
spk_0
Like it's just they think that goes into why season four can't happen right now is that like.
spk_0
It's just really you and it's yags it.
spk_0
It's a full time job that you doesn't have a salary that comes with it except like the money that you make.
spk_0
But it's not like you're making fucking buckets out here.
spk_0
Well, people don't know about snapped is the money that you put into it from your own and not your parents money.
spk_0
Not anybody's like.
spk_0
Money that I have.
spk_0
Where buying the equipment.
spk_0
Paying other people for like paying to the other people.
spk_0
At least minimum wage for the shit that they were doing for the podcast, which I think was like there were a few people that I'm sure you didn't need to including myself that you like you you really put a lot of your own resources into this podcast is what I'm saying.
spk_0
So all the money that you did make back from it like it was paying yourself back.
spk_0
You just not like you came out of this like exactly.
spk_0
I gave myself back and it's like if someone wants to fund if somebody wants to make it possible.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
We don't have a big enough audience, I think for it to be Patreon funded.
spk_0
Yeah, no.
spk_0
And it's just it's also it's just unreliable.
spk_0
It's putting I need a network behind it that has their own lawyers and it's it's it's running a business.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
It's running a business and I think beyond that I think you put a lot of your time into this and it's time and like it becomes.
spk_0
Yeah, it becomes it's 24 not 24 hours, but it becomes your life.
spk_0
Yeah, I'm just a nice girl who wanted a leadership position.
spk_0
Yes, but at least you actually had a real leadership position and not not accountability chair.
spk_0
Yeah, that was the next question is how could season before happened?
spk_0
Do you need more content funding?
spk_0
How can we help?
spk_0
I think at this point, I don't think.
spk_0
So this is my Q&A.
spk_0
What are you going to say?
spk_0
I was going to say at this point, I mean, it's it's not just about funding.
spk_0
It's also about your life and like you need to be able to turn off work.
spk_0
And I think snapped was it became your whole life and.
spk_0
But that was yes, I agree, but I think that snaps could not be my whole life if I had the appropriate resources.
spk_0
And that's where things like funding more of a team.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
There needs to be a team that it's really not even about funding.
spk_0
It's about a team.
spk_0
It's a team.
spk_0
It's a team.
spk_0
I need to be I need to have my role whether that's the host, whether that's the producer, whether you know.
spk_0
And like I want to like I'll have input.
spk_0
I'm sure.
spk_0
But like I can't.
spk_0
And like I did have help, you know, but not but it was no one working on it in the same sense.
spk_0
You did 95 to 97% of the work for the entire podcast.
spk_0
I would say like as far as on the ground.
spk_0
Boots on the ground.
spk_0
I would say 93.
spk_0
Okay, that's fair.
spk_0
93.
spk_0
93.
spk_0
But still a full ton of.
spk_0
I still wouldn't I wouldn't have gotten to certain places without you.
spk_0
Oh, I follow the money.
spk_0
When I was thinking about me, I was like, well, can we put it a lot?
spk_0
Well, can we did too?
spk_0
I would know I guess something about certain certain phrases wouldn't have been a lot of that.
spk_0
So season four, how could it happen?
spk_0
I think that I think the only way to help.
spk_0
Yeah, I think that either a media company would need to get behind it.
spk_0
Uh-huh.
spk_0
And it's all hands on right.
spk_0
And if I lose some creative control, I lose some creative control.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
I've never I'm okay with that.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Because I think that this is for this project.
spk_0
It's something bigger now.
spk_0
It's not it's something bigger.
spk_0
It's more of it's a cause now.
spk_0
It's a cause and I'm I don't want to be right.
spk_0
You know, you want to you want your baby to grow up.
spk_0
Exactly.
spk_0
And be able to watch her fly.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Snap.
spk_0
And this is one of my favorite questions.
spk_0
I mean this so nicely, but have you thought about getting a social media person?
spk_0
I feel like your conduct on social media is hard to take seriously, especially because of how serious the subject matter of your podcast is.
spk_0
So I guess the question in there is have you thought about getting a social media person?
spk_0
So I've reflected on this question.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And I think first of all, it's hard to fully answer because I don't know specifically what they're referring to.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
And so for me, all I can think about is like, well, was it this or this?
spk_0
spk_0
Like what do they think is?
spk_0
What do you mean by conduct?
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Like, you know, which conduct.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I think you're like, I've posted a lot of things.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
A lot of good.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I get what you mean.
spk_0
And I mean, I understand in the sense that some of the content I post is cheeky.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It wouldn't be what like CNN is posting, I guess.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
What I think that, I don't know.
spk_0
What do you think?
spk_0
I think that this goes back to you.
spk_0
This question comes back to it.
spk_0
This just being what started as your baby and your healing process that turned into a much larger scale investigation that required marketing and
spk_0
wheels on or shit on TikTok and Instagram posts and like the amount of work that goes into that.
spk_0
And conduct isn't a social media person.
spk_0
You're talking about PR.
spk_0
They think I need PR.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
They think that your social, your conduct on social media is hard to take seriously, which is like, fair.
spk_0
Like for me, what comes up is like, like writing with like in caps sometimes or like heart eyes.
spk_0
Maybe.
spk_0
And then another part of me is like, you know what I honestly think it is when I think it is.
spk_0
But picks.
spk_0
No, don't think it's but picks.
spk_0
And if it is anything like that, which it probably is at least part something.
spk_0
First of all, part part of this question is a little bit of the reason that you were snapped in the first place, which is inappropriate context.
spk_0
But I think that's where the I understand part of this question is that I think we talked about this throughout the pockets making.
spk_0
This is your baby and very much a thing that was yours and you wanted to put Lucy into.
spk_0
But then season three is a lot of other people's stories.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
It's so much more serious.
spk_0
So you had still the host.
spk_0
You had to find a balance between how much of Lucy do you put out into the podcast?
spk_0
And in the podcast, you were an incredible neutral journalist that I think you did a great, great job of like handing over the mic in the pocket.
spk_0
Yeah, social media is your opportunity to show yourself.
spk_0
Yeah, and it's a little more carefree.
spk_0
Yeah, as it should have been as it should have been.
spk_0
And that's where a lot of the work comes in.
spk_0
You didn't have the time and the resources to be spending six hours reviewing and editing and asking those kind of questions about social media.
spk_0
It's like.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
And I don't know.
spk_0
For me, there's not I don't I can't think of a social media post that I regret.
spk_0
Yeah, I really can't really think I didn't.
spk_0
I thought I appreciate feedback.
spk_0
If maybe something more specific, I don't know.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Did say that they mean this so nicely.
spk_0
So I think we're going to treat it as a nice comment.
spk_0
Yeah, sure they meant well.
spk_0
And they want the success of the podcast.
spk_0
And I hit me too.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Me too.
spk_0
And if it did have the resources.
spk_0
And you know, let's say I got made the host.
spk_0
I just look at always have some.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Like if this is not to produce it.
spk_0
If that becomes a season for where you have a team of stuff.
spk_0
I'm happy for someone to give me no.
spk_0
That kind of conduct might.
spk_0
Yeah, exactly.
spk_0
And to.
spk_0
You know, I'm happy to make adjustments.
spk_0
That brings me to our next question is.
spk_0
Would you like to comment on the singing allegations?
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Singing gate.
spk_0
Singing gate.
spk_0
Which you can't say I didn't.
spk_0
As a production supervisor, I would listen.
spk_0
If you if you if you loved the singing, you can just skip this part.
spk_0
But if you hated the singing, you think it was polarizing.
spk_0
I know it was polarizing.
spk_0
Because I know some people liked it.
spk_0
I'm I'm sure some people liked it.
spk_0
Some people hated it.
spk_0
And that's fine.
spk_0
It was polarizing.
spk_0
It was polarizing.
spk_0
I think it was to say that's bad.
spk_0
My vocal bar is polarizing too.
spk_0
Yeah, but fuck that.
spk_0
Yeah, fuck that.
spk_0
But it was.
spk_0
I understood the singing more because I cut.
spk_0
We caught a lot more singing.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
You're like, yeah.
spk_0
If you didn't like the singing, be grateful that she didn't put all the singing in.
spk_0
This started as a music video series.
spk_0
I y'all don't understand.
spk_0
Y'all don't understand.
spk_0
But I think that goes back to the last question too is that there was a lot of you in this podcast.
spk_0
I'm like, right.
spk_0
And I always try to make the singing relatable.
spk_0
Like I remember in season one when I did singing.
spk_0
I remember I wanted what time is it, make up time.
spk_0
It's the second day of fresh.
spk_0
I loved that one.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Like, you know, is to keep it engaging.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
To keep you hooked.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
You know, I think I tried to be as strategic about it as possible.
spk_0
You know, I think that I did take note of the serious under,
spk_0
not undertones, the serious nature of the episodes.
spk_0
Like with the Tim Piazza episode, I didn't even have the snap.
spk_0
You know, like I, there was no music.
spk_0
So I don't know.
spk_0
For me, I did it intentionally.
spk_0
And this podcast was produced, edited, hosted by me.
spk_0
And, you know, it, it, it, it.
spk_0
I think some people get secondhand embarrassment.
spk_0
They cringe.
spk_0
And what they don't know is that you were not embarrassed.
spk_0
And you're not prejudiced.
spk_0
And you're not prejudiced.
spk_0
So you can't get secondhand embarrassment when the first person is an embarrassed.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
And it comes down to that.
spk_0
They feel vulnerable.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
They feel like I wouldn't do that.
spk_0
I wouldn't put myself out there like that.
spk_0
spk_0
And it's like, that's cool.
spk_0
And that's the same thing with the butt pick.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's, it's this, it goes, that's what this like whole question to about conduct.
spk_0
It's like, if someone makes you cringe, can you police them?
spk_0
Uh, it depends what the cringe is.
spk_0
Well, no.
spk_0
It, it depends.
spk_0
I mean, I can talk shit.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah.
spk_0
But I'm not, but I'm not going to impede on their right to make me cringe.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
It's not going to be like, what is this conduct?
spk_0
Maybe that's why they were mad about the seat geek ad.
spk_0
People were mad about the seat.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
I'm just thinking that's another time I sang.
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
And another one.
spk_0
That's a huge, well, the seat geek ad.
spk_0
I thought it was silly.
spk_0
I thought it was interesting.
spk_0
I thought that they'd be like, why is she singing?
spk_0
It was also funny.
spk_0
I thought it was, I don't regret it.
spk_0
Don't regret it.
spk_0
I don't regret the seat geek ad and seat geek ad.
spk_0
Seat geek.
spk_0
spk_0
Seat geek.
spk_0
Use of the code though.
spk_0
What do you think of?
spk_0
Snaped at checkout when you're using seat geek.
spk_0
And just use seat geek.
spk_0
If you're going to book seats.
spk_0
If you're going to book seats.
spk_0
You see the geek and use code snap.
spk_0
And I didn't sing the song.
spk_0
So you're welcome.
spk_0
Snaped.
spk_0
To see what all the fuss is about.
spk_0
Follow snapped on Instagram and TikTok at Snap to the podcast.
spk_0
While the season might be over, our social media presence isn't.
spk_0
Our TikTok and Instagram is where you'll find all post production updates.
spk_0
And you'll get a bunch of fun content that didn't make it on the podcast.
spk_0
Follow today at Snap to the podcast.
spk_0
You won't regret it.
spk_0
Or maybe you will.
spk_0
No one knows.
spk_0
Snaped.
spk_0
Did you ever cover grief rank?
spk_0
No.
spk_0
But I once did a video of responding to my hate comments.
spk_0
That was Greek rank.
spk_0
I think it's on Patreon.
spk_0
Greek rank is a successful vapid website.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, Meg used to go there for fun to fight with people.
spk_0
I went over grief rank.
spk_0
Sometimes people would impersonate me.
spk_0
They'd be like,
spk_0
Lucy.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
No people would impersonate me.
spk_0
No, you didn't impersonate me.
spk_0
But sometimes you would be on their like behalf of the podcast.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
All the time.
spk_0
On Reddit too.
spk_0
I'm going to come sorority right now.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
That's the best girl in marketing.
spk_0
If you can do anything for this podcast, if you want a season four.
spk_0
That's the tea.
spk_0
Share it.
spk_0
Word of mouth.
spk_0
On your Instagram story.
spk_0
Give your full.
spk_0
Stamp of approval.
spk_0
Tell everyone.
spk_0
You need to listen to this.
spk_0
Create urgency.
spk_0
If that's if you want a season four.
spk_0
You need to post it on your story.
spk_0
And spread it word of mouth.
spk_0
And if you know.
spk_0
Of an executive.
spk_0
Or if you are wealthy.
spk_0
What's your opinion on business fraternities compared to social ones?
spk_0
And I'm going to change this question.
spk_0
Not just business fraternities, but the professional ones.
spk_0
I think that no matter what.
spk_0
It's an environment that's more susceptible to hazing.
spk_0
And to tears.
spk_0
And secret things.
spk_0
I was never in one and I have an interviewed 40 people from one.
spk_0
From them.
spk_0
I have heard some stories in my inbox about business fraternities.
spk_0
I think they're not good.
spk_0
They're not good.
spk_0
spk_0
spk_0
spk_0
spk_0
spk_0
And so I'm not going to endorse them.
spk_0
I think they're better.
spk_0
They're not good.
spk_0
And maybe they're not better even.
spk_0
Who knows.
spk_0
What would you tell somebody close to you?
spk_0
Or a friend that wants to rush?
spk_0
A family member went all the way to chapter president.
spk_0
And it's all she talks about.
spk_0
It's risky, risky business.
spk_0
I'll be honest with you.
spk_0
I think there's a difference between talking to someone who's already rushed.
spk_0
And is in it versus talking someone that hasn't rushed yet.
spk_0
But then again, I know that I spoke with Cammy about.
spk_0
And I warned her.
spk_0
And she joined out.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
I don't think anyone can do this.
spk_0
So it's tough.
spk_0
It's tough because on one hand, it's like I don't want people to normalize this.
spk_0
How it's like when people are like, I think I'm going to join a frat or something.
spk_0
And we're like, oh, cool.
spk_0
Which one?
spk_0
You know, I don't think that should be the reaction though, either.
spk_0
But where is what what reaction is going to have an impact?
spk_0
Because it's surely not this one that's just brushing it off is a normal thing.
spk_0
I think Greek life has also set up a lot of propaganda surrounding it about what Greek life is.
spk_0
That when somebody buys into that, you feel a bit threatened when somebody tells you not to.
spk_0
Because it's like, well, I know people like you say that it's the next blind Z.
spk_0
And it's actually not.
spk_0
I think there was a question that as an RA, what should I say?
spk_0
And I think it should be come from a place of empathy and curiosity that you listen to this podcast called SNAPT.
spk_0
And you should definitely listen to it before considering joining.
spk_0
But what do you think you should say to a family member?
spk_0
Let's say your cousin who's in it and is now president.
spk_0
So you know they're indoctrinated.
spk_0
I don't think there's a lot that you have to know.
spk_0
I don't think.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
I think, I'm getting empathy.
spk_0
Appealed to them as a person.
spk_0
And even though they may be frustrating right now.
spk_0
Try and keep hanging out with them.
spk_0
At least to as much as you can.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Because the less isolated they are, the more of a chance.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
They'll get out.
spk_0
How do you deal with the aftermath of dropping?
spk_0
I feel kind of lost.
spk_0
Getting involved in as many communities as you can.
spk_0
Cling to the friend that you know that isn't.
spk_0
Yeah, clinging to them.
spk_0
And have them introduce you to their friends.
spk_0
And tell them about your experience.
spk_0
spk_0
And hear their thoughts from an outside perspective.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yeah, talk to people who are in great life.
spk_0
Mm-hmm.
spk_0
About your experience.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I think a lot of people will validate you.
spk_0
Mm-hmm.
spk_0
But like it might feel like right now you're in the minority.
spk_0
But if you start talking to people.
spk_0
It's really the majority.
spk_0
You're actually in the majority.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
And the people who are in Greek life.
spk_0
If you speak to them five years from now.
spk_0
There's a good chance with those today is very different.
spk_0
Also, like in the, I know it probably it probably feels like everything's crumbling right now.
spk_0
But like let it crumble.
spk_0
Enjoy it.
spk_0
There's going to be a lot of time in life that you spend alone.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
You know, like get.
spk_0
Enjoy.
spk_0
You.
spk_0
Because you're not supposed to be in this.
spk_0
You don't need to be around people 24-7.
spk_0
spk_0
And start unfollowing them on Instagram.
spk_0
You know, take the lens out as much as you can.
spk_0
Even though they're still on campus.
spk_0
They're still dominating the social scene.
spk_0
So it's hard.
spk_0
And give yourself grace for feeling that.
spk_0
Because there's no way to not feel that.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
They're going to feel resentment.
spk_0
And go to the club fair.
spk_0
And I think on the bottom of the line.
spk_0
Know that it's.
spk_0
Oh, it makes sense why you're not thriving in this system that's made.
spk_0
That's not it's not meant for us to thrive in.
spk_0
Like the American drinking age is 21.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
spk_0
spk_0
For us to have full control over the scene.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Like where are we.
spk_0
There's no there's not a lot of aesthetically pleasing public space.
spk_0
spk_0
It makes sense why you're struggling socially right now because it's very weird realm.
spk_0
The College is very weird.
spk_0
And it's also quick and fleeting.
spk_0
You got this.
spk_0
Now.
spk_0
If you haven't yet, please, please, please,
spk_0
great snap to wherever you listen to podcasts and leave a review. This helps the
spk_0
podcast be more discoverable on platforms and I'd love to hear about what you
spk_0
thought of this season or season two or season one. Thank you so much for
spk_0
supporting this independent podcast.
spk_0
Do you have plans for recourse if and when these organizations come for you? Come for you.
spk_0
It's funny question. Have they come for you? Have you been have you been came for?
spk_0
Yes. Yes, I've been came for. This could be a whole this it this could be
spk_0
this topic. We a whole hey really could be hope so that's why it's like how much
spk_0
do we I think that you should tell the listeners who've reached out to you
spk_0
shortly or I guess it was a little of the season coming out right after
spk_0
some on Alpathy and it's so funny because I thought the season to sis would
spk_0
come at either follow the money or the each word part two you know there was
spk_0
always a possibility for a season to sis.
spk_0
No season to sis for the biggest the biggest parts of life. Right but to them
spk_0
so not for me was the biggest part. Right well it was it was that's what are
spk_0
coming you someone else in the snap team said she was like like when I told her
spk_0
she was like like we thought it would come and follow the money in right but
spk_0
well well well look who decided to show the director of accountability
spk_0
Alpathy International sent Lucy a season to sis.
spk_0
I woke up I see it screenshot immediately sent to you. I'm like we're caught.
spk_0
They found us they found us it's done. Oh my god I mean I my my blood when you
spk_0
stop like I'm really racing like like fight or flight.
spk_0
I remember my second day of my baby job and now I've become my job. Right. Yeah.
spk_0
Like it was it was a crisis. It was a crisis because it is a crisis.
spk_0
That's they're very threatening this is my first season to sis ever.
spk_0
You didn't you were from an international in my opinion cult. Yeah well national.
spk_0
They call themselves international. I think Canada. I think they just say it.
spk_0
I just say that because they have one job they can't love maybe.
spk_0
Legally in my opinion and mind you I've always had the law involved.
spk_0
I mean the law and I've always been behind the scenes ready.
spk_0
But you know what I mean I really is this legal.
spk_0
We it's not like we didn't think of it. Right.
spk_0
This was not Willie nilly. It was not really.
spk_0
Everything was very thought so I was like fuck.
spk_0
Yeah so the season the season the season the season the season the season the season
spk_0
I don't know just who can say I don't they said in the letter we're going to do you want to
spk_0
yeah let me because long story short with this season to says that it is one of the
spk_0
phoniest documents I've personally seen I mean it is a embarrassment because they put
spk_0
their logo because it was on a PDF and they said they were going to sue me if I didn't sign it.
spk_0
Which is nuts they tried to trap you trap that was a trap.
spk_0
That's crazy and you said we're like I think I need to sign it or you really know I never was
spk_0
going to sign it. You know let me fair fair and valid but you said they need a signature and that was my
spk_0
that was one of my first. Yeah yeah yeah yeah these monsters right right and that's
spk_0
something that that's a red flag if your season this has a signature contact a lawyer.
spk_0
Contact a lawyer because they're trying to trap you in a contract.
spk_0
Contact a lawyer do the intake call for free because I'm over here calling 411.
spk_0
Call it in New York like it's 9 a.m. I'm like calling them like my former
spk_0
sororities trying to sue me what do I do. Trademark law.
spk_0
I think that's why we're going to read it because I think the funniest part about this.
spk_0
I was so confused because they said one saying you were violating trademark law.
spk_0
Let's just read it. No I'll read it but I think that this important to say is that like the
spk_0
obvious thing that Alfa Fee would send you with season season for is definition saying that you were defaming us.
spk_0
You are hurting our character or as an organization in order for something to be
spk_0
definition you have to be lying and Alfa Fee is not going to say that you are lying or
spk_0
sue you for allegedly lying because that opens up many doors many many doors for you to
spk_0
then say I'm not lying and here's why and here's the screenshots in court documents
spk_0
things like that so they're never going to try and even threaten that unless they're
spk_0
willing to crack that box open. Right now trademark law however they that was their
spk_0
end that was their end or what they thought what whoever whatever but was it
spk_0
so an Alfa Fee that triggered it the fact that I used their name in the title they
spk_0
had no they sent you a season to say this for a law like there was no legal basis.
spk_0
Now people reviewed this were like they clearly didn't have a lawyer look over
spk_0
this season to say. Right look at what the lawyer didn't send it. It came from the
spk_0
director of accountability. And you can imagine to my surprise the director
spk_0
of accountability first of all and the international president I already know
spk_0
who she is and it's not pretty. And in my research like like just imagine me knowing
spk_0
who this woman is knowing she allegedly created Alfa Fee's racist in my opinion
spk_0
recruitment strategy and now here she is at the bottom of my email full circle.
spk_0
Just don't send us letters if you don't want them read aloud or don't have the
spk_0
director of accountability send us letters on your behalf. In my opinion
spk_0
letters are so poorly thought out logically. But still still work they still had you
spk_0
know I still had fear. You were scared. And because I would have gone into debt.
spk_0
Yeah I mean that's how they because that's the whole thing that they know I don't
spk_0
have money that's what they were going for. They were hoping that you wouldn't
spk_0
think much about this letter. See that it was big and scary from a big powerful
spk_0
organ. Stop because you were scared. Stop. They didn't think that you would dig
spk_0
into this ask other people about it and like ask everyone in their uncle.
spk_0
They underestimate how much you are even thinking about the wall in the right.
spk_0
I thought that you were just writing your map. And what they didn't know was that
spk_0
snap production supervisor was on her second day at work at a place that has lots
spk_0
of lawyers all lawyers actually which worked out pretty well because that worked
spk_0
out pretty well and giving us our first confirmation of we're not getting sued.
spk_0
Yeah they couldn't write anything for you but they couldn't. But it was well it
spk_0
took was one person to read this and be like this. Yeah. This literally doesn't have
spk_0
legal basis quickly in terms of that especially because we asked like a brand new
spk_0
law grad who he was so down to read this letter and tell me if it was I sent this
spk_0
letter to all the snappers not all of them but anyone who would be willing to be
spk_0
there for the cause because I felt so. So let's read it. Dear Lucy on behalf of
spk_0
the international executive board. I am writing to demand that you immediately
spk_0
bolded. Seasoned assist from any further conduct or action that involves the use
spk_0
of Alphafee's name or trademarks for any purpose including but not limited
spk_0
to you show social media or any public face. I thought it was because I
spk_0
wore their merch. I think it was if it was anything if it was anything it was so
spk_0
not alpha free being the title right if it was anything. Yeah. Anyway let's get
spk_0
started. I think it's a little bit more insignia by individuals who are previously
spk_0
affiliated with or claimed you have be affiliated with claimed you weren't actually
spk_0
in it with the alpha free chapter at the University of Maryland. Like meanwhile they
spk_0
used my address at the top of this letter. So like they have my information because I
spk_0
was a member. You definitely weren't pretending to be in it. We are hopefully you
spk_0
will reconsider your position. See competent legal counsel familiar with trademark
spk_0
and counterfeited law. That's crazy that they said that because any competent legal
spk_0
counsel familiar with trademark and counterfeiting law. I have a way to get coming out
spk_0
tomorrow. Did they listen to the podcast because it's just like they really I feel like
spk_0
they really sent this letter banking on the fact that you wouldn't talk to a
spk_0
little actual lawyer. Oh yeah. Or maybe they just didn't think it through like that.
spk_0
I don't know. Because it makes no sense. You must realize that this is my favorite line.
spk_0
You must realize that you are not a member of the alpha free international fraternity
spk_0
and may not hold yourself out as a member may not wear or otherwise display
spk_0
merchandise bearing a insignia of the fraternity sick to suggest you are a member.
spk_0
Nor may you otherwise use the fraternities in insignia in any way or engage in any
spk_0
efforts to recruit unofficial members. It's terribly written. But you weren't doing
spk_0
any of those things. Never did it. Never pretended to be a member. Never ever
spk_0
pretended. In a final effort to remedy this issue short of litigation short of
spk_0
litigation. Alpha fee international fraternity demands that you immediately
spk_0
immediately. Seize speaking about holding your cease speaking about and holding
spk_0
yourself as a member of alpha fee. Never did you were a member. I was a member.
spk_0
I just played it and I sang song. Seize utilizing the insignia crust Greek
spk_0
letters and other marks of the fraternity. It's trademarked for your merch. I
spk_0
never sold merch with alpha fee on it or the signature or crest.
spk_0
Yep. Didn't profit off your symbol. Never profit it off your symbol one.
spk_0
Your ugly ass dumbass little symbol. Seize any and all attempts to recruit unofficial
spk_0
members. Where did that even come from? The snappers. They're like you cannot start
spk_0
your own cold. Seize your involvement in operating any unofficial
spk_0
or any other. That didn't make sense. But I was thinking it was like my
spk_0
son of an alpha fee party. Where I released the launch of son of an alpha fee.
spk_0
I don't think that they're thinking I like I'm so I'm reading this again. I'm
spk_0
no because it's so gaslighty that it makes you think what did they think you were doing?
spk_0
Okay. And number five immediately return a copy of this letter within seven days
spk_0
signing the statement below that you agreed to fully abide by these conditions.
spk_0
Mind you. We're about to have a three day weekend.
spk_0
The last lines alpha fee international fraternity considers the infringement and
spk_0
counterfeiting of its legally protected trademarks to be very serious issue and
spk_0
ignoring our demands will not this issue go away.
spk_0
Type O. If we do not receive your sign copy we plan to proceed with filing a
spk_0
lawsuit naming you as a defendant. Bluff. But that's the scariest line naming you
spk_0
as a defendant. That's alpha fee international versus Lucy Taylor.
spk_0
A dream. But not a dream. A nightmare. A nightmare. It's what everyone was hoping for.
spk_0
But no one would ever wish upon me. And theory if it were to go down and get
spk_0
sent to the Supreme Court it would go it would be legendary. But we covered our
spk_0
try. Covered our bases for that. Right. It wouldn't we covered our bases.
spk_0
Go through. Yeah. There would be dismissed. Whatever. Anyway,
spk_0
the last line I look forward to your full compliance with the above directives.
spk_0
Please note that this letter is sent without waving any of alpha fees rights
spk_0
or remedies all of which are expressly reserved. Okay. Signed the director of
spk_0
health, wellness and accountability. CC alpha fee executive director and some other
spk_0
girl who's in charge of motor marketing and communications. How did you respond?
spk_0
There were. It was a whole week long process of not knowing what to do.
spk_0
You know, here I am calling for one one. And they're telling I finally
spk_0
get in touch with a trademark lawyer. He gives me advice. He laughs at the letter.
spk_0
What did he say? Didn't he say they clearly didn't? Yeah, they clearly didn't have a
spk_0
lawyer look at this. It's so funny because they say we are hopeful that you seek
spk_0
competent legal counsel familiar familiar with trademark and counterfeiting law.
spk_0
So that's what I did. And you did. And they laughed at the letter. Right. And said
spk_0
they clearly didn't talk to. Right. And so here I am talking to a lawyer. And then
spk_0
he's like, this is essentially bullshit. Not in that wording. But right.
spk_0
But so it tells me that I shouldn't ignore it. Right. And that you should have a lawyer.
spk_0
I have a lawyer responds. And you're like, and I like sure for a lawyer. And then
spk_0
I might how much? What did he say? It was $500 an hour. He estimate that it would
spk_0
take two hours, maybe two and a half. And that I would have to put down a $10,000
spk_0
retainer fee that I would eventually get back. But I don't. That's not. No, no,
spk_0
not 10,000. So definitely not going to do that, especially for the slither. So,
spk_0
um, so I was like, fuck, so there's not like I'm not getting a lawyer. I was still
spk_0
trying to reach out to anyone who was anyone to try and get something pro bono.
spk_0
I guess I'm going to have to make it a limb response. Right. No, I was like any like.
spk_0
But I was also putting up this podcast season and didn't want to give this my
spk_0
full attention because you were in the middle of putting this out. Yeah.
spk_0
And that was a tactic of theirs too. I'm sure it was. But yeah, I was super busy.
spk_0
So I had and I knew it wasn't real deep down. Right. And so I couldn't give it the full.
spk_0
Like I couldn't I couldn't make it my whole life right now. But I was scary.
spk_0
I there were points where I was like, fuck, I'm going to need to make like no one's
spk_0
going to donate to my go fund me. Like I'm going to go into debt because of this.
spk_0
Like I feel I felt very alone. And your catastrophes are like that.
spk_0
They had me rattled you. They rattled. But they didn't have me that they rattled me.
spk_0
Eventually nothing was coming. I was not going to reply at a certain point
spk_0
because none of the connects were working. And our strategy was going to be don't say anything.
spk_0
Believe it. I don't reply because if they were going to see me, I didn't think that they would do it
spk_0
with another warning. Right. And also they wouldn't sue you on this basis.
spk_0
Right. Like it just, you know, like it was it was still risky. But I was like,
spk_0
you know, we're taking this chance because I do not have this money. And we also talked about like the worst thing that happens
spk_0
in this instance of this letter. They sue you. Or they file a lawsuit. And you have to go to court to get it dismissed.
spk_0
That's the worst thing that happens. That costs money, which sucks. But like it was never going to end in like a long
spk_0
thing where you got found guilty of something. No, I wouldn't have gotten found guilty for something.
spk_0
But I was scared that there were going to use money to silence me because I eventually I would have given up if it came down to
spk_0
the lawyer like $10,000. Like I would have stopped. Right. Definitely. You don't have to. I didn't have to because of the first amendment.
spk_0
Well, yeah. And always that. Always that. But even if the connection come through, I mean, I don't think they would have sued.
spk_0
Right. No, I don't. Well, they had no basis. They had no basis. But a judge would have scolded. This is what my,
spk_0
this is what the law, the law person I had, he's a lawyer now in the past of our grads.
spk_0
That's what he told me is that the judge will scold the lawyer that brings this case. Right. Yeah.
spk_0
I would have, because no wonder they didn't have a lawyer behind it. Because it was a sign this line. Yeah. It would have been.
spk_0
It's embarrassing. It has a typo in it and it has no leaving like I've been written a letter. I've been a writer running this season just as a letter.
spk_0
Anyone can anyone can. So yeah, I was originally not going to say anything. But then I spoke with someone who was like, no, you need to reply.
spk_0
And I got into that like catastrophizing mindset, I guess you could say, which maybe I needed to be because if this was my money on the line, I need to protect myself. Yeah. Right.
spk_0
And I reached out to a film director who I had been in brief contact with before this just through the Greek life world.
spk_0
And we had been in brief contact but never met or had a conversation.
spk_0
But this he creates a lot of movies about frat hazing. And so he knows about the inner workings and he knows how these places tick and silence people and is a very successful director has a lot of connect.
spk_0
So I thought, you know what, if I'm going to shoot my shot, I'm going to shoot my shot.
spk_0
You are killing me right now. Why?
spk_0
I'm going to shoot my shot. I messaged him. And he referred. He said, I'm going to connect you with this guy. And I knew the guy's name already in the back of my mind. I heard this.
spk_0
I heard this name before in the research and it he's a very talented individual.
spk_0
We've been saying his name but we're not going to because we're a serious person. Right. And we are not serious people right now.
spk_0
Right. And we don't yet. But he is an admirable and admirable person. I think this lawyer is somebody who has represented and been involved with a lot of cases that involved fraternities.
spk_0
He knows this the inner workings and he knows how he just he's just seen this go down.
spk_0
So how they silence people with bosses or they try to ask people what they're doing.
spk_0
Right. And he saw that they were trying to do this to you with no just independent podcaster.
spk_0
Right. He was advocating and it's setting a precedent.
spk_0
So he represented me pro bono. Not even me. He represented the snappers.
spk_0
Pro bono.
spk_0
Napt.
spk_0
Lucy got one of the top lawyers for this kind of not this kind of suit.
spk_0
I'm not going to say too much because I don't want to identify it.
spk_0
He's like one of the top lawyers for a specific field of law.
spk_0
Very relevant to Greek life that is now going to represent that was representing you pro bono which would have been saved my life.
spk_0
Would have been thousands of dollars for yeah.
spk_0
Yeah. And he just very matter of factly told them the truth.
spk_0
You wrote one of the best letters that I still want to frame it.
spk_0
It added strongly worded letter writer. You were inspired.
spk_0
I was inspired. I was beautifully.
spk_0
So he artfully artfully.
spk_0
I'm just right.
spk_0
Once I have an office, I'm definitely going to print it out.
spk_0
Both of them. Yeah, both of them for sure.
spk_0
This is the paragraph of the lawyers letter in response that I think that everybody should hear.
spk_0
With all due respect, this is him talking to the alpha face.
spk_0
With all due respect, your demand is misguided and legally unsupported.
spk_0
Any trademark protection that your fraternity has with respect to the use of the world's alpha fee is likely in the context of establishing and operating a fraternity entity on the college campus.
spk_0
By no means does this limited property right entitled you to muzzle people engaged in journalism who speak
spk_0
factually about the organization, whether those statements concern their prior membership and experiences therein.
spk_0
Its activities is relation to other Greek organizations or otherwise.
spk_0
These are rights protected by the first amendment of the US Constitution, often referred to as freedom of speech.
spk_0
Worth noting in this regard is that the phrase cease and desist has often been used by universities and colleges across the country to deregnize your fraternity chapters for acts of hazing, misuse of alcohol, violations of campus code of conduct and similarness conduct, which is perhaps one reason there is a public interest in speech and programming to date and for decades in and on every media platform referencing alpha fee and other Greek organizations.
spk_0
So I acknowledge you in your fraternity substantial familiarity with the phrase, but it has no lawful applicability to my client or her constitutionally protected rights.
spk_0
And yeah, that was the end of that. That's all it took.
spk_0
And you know, part of me didn't want to speak about it because it still is scary.
spk_0
It's just scary business when some organization comes at you like that, but with so much time passing and them not suing me, I have, I feel an obligation to tell the snappers just because they put something on a PDF.
spk_0
Yes, until you design it doesn't make it true.
spk_0
You know, cease and desists are not official legal documents. They are not lawsuits. They are a letter that someone writes to you telling you to stop before they sue you.
spk_0
And they are often abused by powerful people to scare people into thinking that they are going to be sued when they actually have no basis for a lawsuit.
spk_0
And it's just a letter of empty words.
spk_0
And it's actually they could actually get in trouble, so to say, for no one's going to come and get them in trouble.
spk_0
Oh, anti-slap. Oh, yeah, they can't law. They can't say.
spk_0
Yeah, there are. That's another thing. The slap laws that he references in the thing which prevent organizations like alpha fee from burying creators or journalists or public speakers.
spk_0
Individuals are talking about, we're trying to expose or shine light on negative parts of an organization. There are laws that protect those whistleblowers from being buried in legal fees and stuff exactly for purposes like that.
spk_0
Exactly. And so I, I felt with with this privilege of having this guy pro bono, like since I had that confirmation from literally the top of the organization.
spk_0
There's no one better who could have represented me in this. Right.
spk_0
That's something that everyone deserves to know. Don't let don't let them scare you. People scare you. And don't let them scare you.
spk_0
You definitely got lucky as far as I got lucky representation, but I don't think you necessarily needed it.
spk_0
I think it could have gone away without it, but yeah, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.
spk_0
We wouldn't have been adult take a season is this a face value? Right. Look into it.
spk_0
But it's if you're a podcast host and they're suing you for trademark violations.
spk_0
And this is the first time they're contacting me after three seasons.
spk_0
And like I emailed y'all about this before it is affiliated.
spk_0
It was pretty easy. You had my address. We could have all alpha fee had to do was apologize privately and publicly.
spk_0
I would never talk about it publicly again.
spk_0
It's true though. If there was some sense of remorse or apology, maybe snapwood and never happened. But it's the normalization of it all.
spk_0
I completely fully believe that if you were to be treated by respect treated with respect by this sorority that snapwood would never happen. But unfortunately.
spk_0
That was the case.
spk_0
Oh yes, but easy.
spk_0
Not don't don't check out yet. We got two more questions or one more. Do you have any genuinely good memories of your sorority? Yeah.
spk_0
But none that are like wow, that was so good. Like I made.
spk_0
I really enjoyed two friends that I was started to make a four friends.
spk_0
I really saw a lot of kindness in the individuals that I met.
spk_0
I'm still friends with anybody from your sorority. No.
spk_0
Yeah, so I guess you know, I don't I don't think we were really we didn't meet in an environment where friendship can be for.
spk_0
Yeah, sorry, but it's doesn't flourish. It doesn't flourish. It can be created. It's it's risky business or any regards. No.
spk_0
Not one. I mean sometimes I think about like I wish the audio quality in season one was better.
spk_0
Yeah, you know, that's just the name of the game. Yeah, it's just trial and error and also growing in my production skills, which I think is very evident.
spk_0
It is wildly evident. I think season three was a very like professionally put together piece. season one was a passion project.
spk_0
But that's a wrap. I think so I've got. Yeah, I mean, thank you for being with me through it all. Of course, thank you for letting me let my dream come true and letting me host an episode.
spk_0
I brought you me too. I can't believe we made it this far and it doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel real. I can't believe it's over. It doesn't feel over.
spk_0
I don't think it's over over. I don't think it's over over either.
spk_0
Snap.
spk_0
If you're craving more snapped content, we've got a bunch on Patreon. Patreon is where I post screenshots, full documents, like primary sources type shit.
spk_0
A Q&A that was recorded in 2020 after season one that answers why I didn't include the name of the sorority in the first season.
spk_0
If I've gotten backlash from UMD, why I joined such a racist institution in the first place and if any of my former sisters have reached out since the podcast.
spk_0
You'll also find a review of Bama Rush behind the scenes content, like a video of me and my assistant before I had the lawyer for the season to assist trying to figure out what state alpha fee.
spk_0
And we have so many full interviews from this season, including Treasurer Michaela.
spk_0
So I'm a biology and public health major. I have nothing to do with finance. I got another bag of sex toys and it said this is for the biggest slut in the sorority.
spk_0
James, the social chair.
spk_0
Don't get me started on like the quote unquote progressive white girls in the sororities. I would be like, oh my god. You guys are gay. You're so cute.
spk_0
My entire month of August was taken up by recruitment for the last five years. I slipped on the couch in the sorority house to make sure that I was there when I was needed.
spk_0
Advisor Tory. I'm definitely been pinpointed by my alumni as someone who's willing to make noise to make change.
spk_0
Lizzie, I was at this away weekend and I was drugged. She's like, if they got shut down, where are we going to do tailgate anonymous frappro Tyler?
spk_0
What did that J board meeting look like that was about the hazing and alcohol? It's like a real court case, right?
spk_0
What do you mean it's real? Like it's like not okay yet. You have my full video interview with Julia, which was recorded in a professional podcast studio.
spk_0
And even in this chill sorority, it was very about image. And I want to share with you the classy meter.
spk_0
For all this content and more, become a jeid or a dismantler on patreon.com slash snapped. That's P A T R E O N dot com slash S N A P P E D.
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