Culture
Sober In Your 60's - Never To Old!
In this episode of 'Sober on a Drunk Planet,' host Nick from Chester shares his journey of sobriety and the challenges faced by individuals in their 60s. The conversation emphasizes that age...
Sober In Your 60's - Never To Old!
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
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Welcome to another episode of Sober on a Drunk Planet podcast and this week's guest
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is Nick from Chester a beautiful part of the UK as well
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I say as well because I think Chester's very much like Wimbledon where I live
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So I've been a bit biased, but there's lots of other beautiful places in the UK. So Nick's come on today. He's been in the group
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I feel like you've been in the group for a while
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Yeah, yeah, I've got two two years plus probably
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Yeah, because the groups only been running for
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three and a half years because it was December
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2022 when I set it up. So yeah, I've always seen you know
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You've always been very good at helping other people. So I thought you know what we've got a new season coming up
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And as we said this new season is about themes as well. So I
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very rudely asked you how old you were
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And you said you're in your 60s. So I thought actually what great podcast to do is about
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Helping people in their 60s because well one of my pet hates and it's part of the reason I'm doing this golf thing
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is when people say you're too old to do something
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And I think what we're talking about now will build up to actually you're not and
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sobriety
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Without preempting what you might say is he's still was amazing at
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60 plus
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Was on 39 so I think it would be really helpful
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For people of well for all age groups but specifically those who are a bit older who might just use age is a bit of a
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Barrier to entry should we say
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Um
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Cool, so with these we'll go have your backstory and then obviously we'll get up to your sobriety
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and
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Then chipping with questions and just explore certain themes as we go along as well
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So over to you
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Okay, yeah, it's I mean
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Go back to the beginning then I mean I started drinking probably when I was the age of 14 or 15 years of age like most people most kids do
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Yeah, I've had that stage you know, I was drinking beer side
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Pen on black all those things in the
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70s and 80s that we crazy could use to do and drink
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Um, never thought anything of it. I was obviously young kid and didn't drink. I mean I was always training. I was a
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Started martial arts when I was about 17 or 18 years of age
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So I was gonna say this as you said martial arts. There's a bit of a Chuck Norris going on
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I don't know about that but
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Probably probably not but I mean I was always doing martial arts
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Oh different styles as well. I broke away from one type of style to another type of style
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And so my drinking was was was was low key
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Um, then I was got about 20-21
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Um still the same I could take it or leave it really uh drink of the weekends go out with my friends
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Friday night saturday night and
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I'll be the other session then you could drink eight ten pints in initial period of time
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Uh, and you feel no real effects a bit of a hangover the day after
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Uh, but I then I got older that sort of like mid-twenties. I was I was an engineer at the time
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Uh, during the police force at the age of 26
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That's when I really started to learn how to drink um
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We we we which is ironic because it's the police. It's the doctors. It's the lawyers. It's the generally high
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stress
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Jobs that tend to come with the biggest drink as well
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Probably yeah, I mean I think any career high stress career
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Uh, you do start to
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Look for some extra support and maybe and in the police in the late 80s it was always you you were told to drink
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In your training. It's all about drinking you go to the bar and in your train. You're way for 14 16 weeks training
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Uh, and you're drinking every day
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I never did that before hand and then you're drinking every day. Oh, maybe three or four pints. It does actually not seem completely
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bonkers looking back at it. Yeah, I mean, it's not it's not like that
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It's not nothing like that now but in those days
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You you were away from your family and friends, girlfriends, boyfriends or whatever
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And you're um, you know, you're in this environment and it's a false environment
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They wanted to see what you were like especially in drink
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Um, and of course you'd relax you put your guard down you'd stop conversations. There'd be people knocking around in the bar area
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Um, obviously everyone's in obviously jeans and t-shirts
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So you'd forget sometimes
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But you that that's where it you're all stuck. I think for me that's where my
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Sort of the weren't issues at the time, but that's where you sort of introduced to
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more of a casual drink and a bit more regular
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And then you go out into the into your areas you force area and then you start to
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You've got this bit of a small habit
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Um, and I was still doing a bit of training then as well
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And you start to mix with your colleagues
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Uh, and you start drinking when you're off your shifts and
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And that's how I think that's how mice was a bit of an issue started
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Um, and then 30 years later
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You've come up the other side and yeah, I mean, I didn't have
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I don't felt like I had any real problems with drinking in the police because it was normal
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Uh, and then you
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I think when it came out to the police I was then in this
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Inchanged area of friday sati and sunday now drinking because it wasn't anywhere kind of Monday
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And then it's obviously Thursday friday sati sunday
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Um, and then we hit covert just before just after that
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So then that's when I realized that I did have a problem. I was drinking all the time. I was trying to buy
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Be yeah, um, to get in because of covid was it was in place and you
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Your jenny's were essential see but getting your food. I was getting the
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My spirits and the be yeah
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To get to get me through the weekends and but I always kept it to weekend drinking
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It's it's how the brain sort of allows you to binge drink
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Without thinking you're an alcoholic I guess
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Yeah, yeah, and I mean, well, I said to me she said
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Do you think you've got a problem and I said no, I'm not got a problem, you know, I can take it away
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But I think you will let's just have a few weeks off
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And that's when I knew I was
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Yeah, for me for me particularly saturday saturday afternoon
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When I go to the pub normally what's a football
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Um, it was there. I didn't know I couldn't just know I have a drink
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Um, I'm strange enough that was a bit of a trigger for me because
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You you find all that time. So I'd normally play golf in the morning and then I'd go down to the pub with all the boys
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We'd watch the football and talk about all our betting because that's what we did
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Yeah
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Yeah, and then suddenly when I've got sober once it's like oh
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What am I going to do for like those six seven hours
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Um, we're just backtracking a bit. So
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How did it work drinking with your shift work? Did you have places that were open
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late that you would go to or
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No, I mean as I said I'm a during the shift worker wouldn't I won't particularly for me. I wouldn't drink
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Um, if I was on a
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I think the 10 years was on front nine shifts. So if you finish your shift say I don't know it could be
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If there's if I sat this sunday and you finish your shift on sunday night
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I probably have a drink
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When I go home it was a late shift
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And then a drink Monday Tuesday. I was working on a night shift
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Do three or four nights you finish your nights. I'd have a drink that particular night. I was off
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Um, you know probably more
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Tell me sleep. I used to think it would help me sleep, but obviously we all know now
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It's the opposite of it. You don't sleep. You have you're broken sleeping drink
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But at the time I felt like it knocked me out on it
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I'd wake up refresh the following day, which is not
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Obviously 10 years later. It was never the case. Yeah
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Then I went into the investigations
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Got promoted a couple of times and
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So for me then it was always about I left over clear had I'd never drink during
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Mainly during my work and days or evenings
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And then when it was off I'd I would drink but I'd probably drink more than I should do
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Uh, whenever that may be
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Yeah, and then I guess Covid's actually been a bit of a salient up just for you
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But it's it's a quite a common thing that actually when you take away the pubs and meeting friends for drinks
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You then suddenly are just going to the off license all the supermarket
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To get drink so there's no real hiding from yourself
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Yeah, I mean during Covid as well. When when you first hit
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Um, I mean the shelters were pretty much empty at the end everyone was buying so much beer
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From the off licensees that you you'd have to drive further afield than people so you've got
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They've got stellar and the off license in the next village down
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Even where we are so I'd have to drive and obviously pick pick it up and then I'd have like
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Creases creates of stellar emigadage and I felt okay and but you don't really it's just I mean at the time looking back now
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That's this conversation sound ridiculous but at the time it was just quite normal to have like you know 40 tens of stellar in the garage just to get me through
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Um just to get me through a couple of weekends
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Uh, but now it's you know, it's just really weird just thinking about it
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Yeah, it's funny. I think when I was in rehab back in 2018 they said it was his protection of supply
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So the part of addiction no matter what part of the scale you are fully addicted every day or the bin shrinker who then needs to
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stock pile um
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Because I was similar with beer. I always needed to have it in the fridge or
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My other thing was drugs
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Always needed drugs nearby
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um and yeah, it's just it's the protection of supply that you don't want to run out of something
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But I guess when you've got covid you you then realize that
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Why do I need this? I've got no way to go
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It's uh, it's a strange feeling and I mean there's other things there's a lot of stories
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I could probably come up with now but we've probably haven't got time but you know where you just think about
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You just look at our drink or you know whether it's traveling to an event or
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You know people around you're drinking on a bus or in a taxi the train have a drink or you're getting a lift somewhere and people
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Popping cans or bottles open and
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It's all those occasions and we why did you just wait to get to the event and and then have a drink
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But no, we have to have a drink on the way don't we on the train or
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I must admit I was a bit different
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I always looked at people drinking on the train and I thought well because in London you're not actually allowed to or don't think
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Yeah
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By was thought just wait I couldn't I was never bothered about drinking on a plane either
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um
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But then I would get shit faced and then it would ruin
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The rest of the sporting event whether I went to full-arm or liable or whatever football match
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Yeah, and he remembers anything cricket was another one. I don't like cricket
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But we'd always go after work because it was near
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um
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London
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Go 2020 after work and again just get shit faced because there was that
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I don't know if you relate to it but the
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inability to stop once you started
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Yeah, I mean I think over the years that obviously for me drinking for so long you sort of
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You sort of know when you've had enough
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Um because for me I'm a tall tall guy so I'd always get hungry
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So
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I'm excited to kick in really like it punch me in the face. I mean I've had that
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So it's sort of but but as I got older you sort of
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You go from drinking to on an eye tap 10 pounds of
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Fairly good larger to 8 pounds and then it's sort of 7 pounds and it's sort of doing it down to 6 pounds
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Some shorts, brandies, whatever goes with it um
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So I think for me it's sort of you sort of new winter sort of finish
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Yeah, but it doesn't mean I was any less sober
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I was always quite drunk
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Um and that's just
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I'm basically because picking up on what you were saying is that although you probably were
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Reducing the amount you drank with age. Yeah, I guess in the hangover's possibly increased
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hugely. I mean that's one of the reasons it
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I had lots of lots of effects coming kicking in especially sort of look mid to like 50s. I had like
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hard palpitations and light sweats
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Lakissly all the things that you've spoken about in your books
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Um, we're just pointing at me really my hand go was with
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It gone from obviously when I was younger no hardly any hangover to talk to literally two to three days
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Nothing can straight. I could I concentrate the following day with a hangover now. I try and do 10 things at once
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Why did you try to make you do 10 things at once when you could you and you can't do anything correct?
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Yeah, yeah, and that just gets worse as you get older
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Yeah, it's funny because I remember working one of my first finance jobs. I was probably
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23 at the time and I hadn't really suffered from hangovers
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That that age I felt bit groggy the next morning, but like you said when you're young you can just get on with it
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It doesn't really impact you
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I always remember vividly the guy saying wait until you get to my age
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I think he was 42 at the time he said you you have four pints and your hangovers last about three days
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um
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Obviously, I drank and did too many drugs so I had to stop at 31
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But by the time I got to 31 my hangovers were last in four days
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So there's always a bit of a joke that
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Wednesday was the only day I ever went to the gym because that's the only day that I actually felt
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sort of semi normal
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um
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But I think it's it's not about uncommon that people stop drinking with age
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Because of the side effects of that much more
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potent and more time more opportunities
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A lost because you spend longer trying to flush out all the the toxic
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Um, well the toxins from alcohol that produced
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Yeah, but the thing is you think it's it becomes normal, doesn't it because you you don't feel the well
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um
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Tired, I mean you're tired. I mean it as I say all the things you've said the amount of food and rubbish you eat
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And to recover you feel like you're in a stodge will make you feel better
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And all you do is you lose a weight on
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You've got more unfit. I for me my heart palpitations became stronger
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Um, you know the doctors and the certainly that you're saying yeah most people have heart palpitations or that doesn't help me
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But in the end I realized it was the alcohol
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was once I tried to stop
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everything eased
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Sugar level
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That as well because I think
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um
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I went to the doctors. I had numerous things. I think gastric acids quite a common one. So acid reflux
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Yeah
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But when I stopped drinking that went away
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Loss weight and then other things because less inflammation in the body
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um
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Yeah, I mean
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I think once you know the truth about something that
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Is a big lie because
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The drinking culture in the police
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celebrates it
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So I guess if you don't drink you'll sort of go in against
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The culture
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Yeah, but but also you you're if if you're dealing with it gets nasty or bad or
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I suppose
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Um things that you see and you witness then a drink sort of
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Numbs you to that effect
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Yeah, and you know you can you can you can like not you see yourself then can't be really yeah, I guess
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There's a couple of things because I'll be honest
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I didn't know who you used to work in the police but my favorite show is police
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Interceptors and all those things um because I look at it from the side of I'm not getting trouble with the police anymore
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But 90% a drug and alcohol related offenses
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Um, so on that point
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When you were working front line I'm guessing Friday Saturday nights you would deal with drunk people all the time
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Yeah, and how was that
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The deal with I guess the after effects of alcohol
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Yeah, I mean you see that you see the bad side of life don't you really um
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Well for me, I mean I was at the time
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I mean this is going back up with you 20 or years ago now, but um
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That was I mean yeah, I was drinking what I'm in my time off as a binge drinker um but to
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To the degree when you look at people and say Liverpool
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There's some drunk and the and they've committing crime and all the violence that goes with it
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Um, you know, you just you just deal with it your job is to deal with it and to to contain it
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And if people need a rest and then you need a resting but I'd always be I've always been fair with people
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I've never you know never done any guess shouldn't have done over done
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I've always done things that by the book
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If someone needed to rest in you've arrested them because they've done something violent or they've been
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Drunken disorderly doing something outrageous. So they've have to come in
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But um, that's just that's just your job, but I came away from that. So I did 10 years of affluent line till about 19
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Uh, 19
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A year 2000 1999 then I went into investigations, which is different than you sort of
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You come away from the frontline of that
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Yeah
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profession and you're dealing with all the investigations
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and see ugly
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So I get I guess in in terms of
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What you know now
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Is it do you think if alcohol was regulated or
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The percentages drastically reduced that might have a
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Better impacts on sort of policing
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Police it hugely
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Here be there be a huge impact on policing yeah, I mean
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Whatever you think about drugs and cannabis and all that business that aside
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And alcohol alone because it's
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It's everywhere as we keep talking about and you talk about your books
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Um, it's anyone can buy it from at the age of probably 13 if you looked above
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a bit older
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To any any age right up to to when we when we die it's it's there it's accessible
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It's affordable and but the amount of people that just don't know how to just have a few drinks they've got a drink to get blind drunk
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Um, and that's when all the problems are caused and even if you know people aren't blind drug they become loud
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These say things that are offensive
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That they must waste a lot of time because you've just got drunk people who possibly are nice people day to day when they're not drunk
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Who get arrested when they don't really have to be I guess you say because they keep pushing it
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The amount of people you'd see in a cell the following day and they're so regretful and because of so would or
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Um, unless obviously it's a it's a
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I can a passionate thing but if they've just been drink or drink driving or drunk and done something they can't even remember half the time
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Um, and there they are
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Yeah, I got arrested at 2.32 p.m
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On a Sunday afternoon for being drunk and disorderly
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Um, that was a low point in my life and then I got arrested the week after for the same thing as well
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Um, but I I generally don't remember
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Any of it other than walking out of the police station was my first memory
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It was only because I had the ticket in my back pocket a very angry mum and dad because my mates had to ring them to say
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But I'm not being arrested at 2.30
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And it it wasn't like I was a bad person. I just couldn't handle the fact that I was drinking vodka repul
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Pokegate 11 o'clock in the morning
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I was the first drinker had was 11 o'clock and by 2.30 I was
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A fucking nutcase
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That's correct
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Yeah, very quick
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Um, and then I guess yeah, the so
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And the thing is it would yeah, we're reducing the impact of alcohol alcohol as a drug with the benefit of hindsight
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Is that it would help the police the police would
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Then be able to focus on the things that they really need to focus on
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But then also there's the other benefits of NHS won't have to
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spend all the time looking after drunk accidents and all that from being overweight from drinking and everything like that as well
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Yeah
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It's everyone get the court to the court system prisons. It's everything you know, it's it's huge but
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I mean that's never gonna happen is it I mean
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I do think that people now that the younger generations are starting to realize that
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Drinking isn't the be all an end all and that's where all the zero bees are coming in and I think it's
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Things are gonna change but it's gonna take a long time
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Was up was older guys maybe particularly no and I obviously see in this that it's it's a big change for me this
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But doesn't go without its struggles even for me, so it's um
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Yeah, I think we talk about so I feel like the generation of 20 year olds
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So 20 years younger than me
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Go to the gym don't really drink, but then I look at the prices of housing and I'm like no wonder they don't drink
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Because salaries haven't
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Got any higher so something has to give in terms of do I spend a hundred two hundred pounds on a night out or
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Do I try and save to get into some type of
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studio somewhere
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and
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That's their problem now though unfortunately
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I think health and well-being is the main focus isn't it that's what people really want
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Uh, but I think there's a there's a big sludge of people in between but I don't know what of the ages you could probably you could probably tell me
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But say between 35 and say
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My age 60 and even people older than me that they're never gonna change or the they're trying to change
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Sorry, but they're trying to change but this people are just one change that that they're like on their own
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That's how they're fun
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And that that's that's the point we'll get to in a bit when we start talking about your sobriety point
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But yeah, the people that say I'm too old. What's the point?
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Um, that's my personal pet hate
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No, and that's why I wanted to make the theme about getting sober in your sixties because
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The benefits are there for everyone and maybe more so
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um
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When you're 16 over because time becomes more precious. I don't know
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Um
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Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think I think you start to realize that health is more important than anything and you're right
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You're not the edge of the table now in your life
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Uh, and I think you know, yeah, we got far to go sounds a bit morbid
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Uh, yeah, it sounds morbid, but I also think
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We need to be sensible and have on his conversations about death. We know what the average ages are the people die at so
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I could have a heart attack in the next 10 minutes um
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And that's just ways
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Yeah, it's and yeah, it's it's um but the thing is we want we want better things
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I mean for me it's like a it's a big like ball moment is like
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I want a little bit longer actually don't we
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die in a
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Cancer or hard to tackle or I'd like to try and live and become healthy
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I mean, I'm still I'm training now back to my full-spec training three four three four days a week
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Not martial arts because obviously it's um, I mean, it worked
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The sound you're not gonna say it too old are you?
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No, I'm not too old for it. You're more likely to break many of them now is breaking fingers toes and ribs and
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Gives a teeth and all those things that we did when we were younger
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But um
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Again, it's it's something I probably could do but I'm more into sort of swimming cycling
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um running um, it's like a triathlon
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Yeah, it's yeah, it's rather due to triathlon in the next year to a proper fall one
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I don't know but it's there in the back of my mind
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Maybe another marathon half of my life and it's a good
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But no, I want to build a bit of strength up as well look a body strength and get strong again
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Yeah, stay well
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And that is like my my one of my motivations for doing this golf thing at 39
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Like most people would say we were too old to try and do this now
spk_0
It's something that people do from the age of eight but I had a client John who was 72
spk_0
And he came to me and he start this is when I was doing the personal training and he started doing
spk_0
The weight training so we went for two years
spk_0
Um, and in those two years he he's confidence in his ability to move around the house and
spk_0
The simple things as well because when you lose strength in later years
spk_0
That's when accidents happen you they could be this grip strength. He can't grip the bannisters fall down
spk_0
break a hit once you're in hospital
spk_0
No one really wants to go into hospital
spk_0
Because of everything else that you end up coming out with um, but strength training is such an important part of
spk_0
I'm staying alive basically um, and I think like you said I think it's an knock on effect getting sober
spk_0
gives you that time
spk_0
To then do the strength work
spk_0
Um because in the reality of it if you're not feeling a hundred percent
spk_0
For half a week it then limits
spk_0
How often you go to the gym maybe
spk_0
Yeah, that's right and sometimes you don't even feel like it when you when you're hungry
spk_0
Uh, but I mean now
spk_0
So certainly nearly two years into it
spk_0
Um, um, my training is is getting better all the time
spk_0
Um, I'm not quite back at lifting the weight to use to when I was younger
spk_0
Um, but I'm sort of getting there
spk_0
Um, I'm I'm saying my running is probably just as well not as fast as when I was 18 obviously
spk_0
Um, so to get into sort of good speeds and my running
spk_0
Um, my recovery from training is good. It's quicker than I've never been as quick as this for recovery and training which I don't I can't remember being
spk_0
So well after the training session
spk_0
And and that's that's quite important point to make because there are a lot of people in in the sober on a drug-planned community that do
spk_0
Running and every other type of sport
spk_0
um, but it's
spk_0
Understanding how important recovery is because it means you can get going again
spk_0
Develop from this so actually having a
spk_0
Fully hours sleep that isn't disturbed by
spk_0
Alcohol and needing a piss every two minutes
spk_0
Um, and simple things like that that these are all the small habits that actually have quite a
spk_0
A big impact over your run times and the weights that you're lifting
spk_0
um, and
spk_0
Yeah, I just don't think people there's a big enough emphasis on those smaller things
spk_0
That actually the bigger frame of
spk_0
Health and well-being are actually quite important. Yeah, and also a concentration as well. I mean
spk_0
I've just started to uh, I thought myself I need to I'd like to play an int musical instrument
spk_0
I've tried to play the guitar for about 20 years and I've always put it down picked it up
spk_0
But I just thought I'd like to play the drums actually
spk_0
So um, so I've been playing drums for about 12 months now
spk_0
Uh, but my concentration and I'm more I think I'm okay. My standard is I've never played a drum uh, a drum kit before in my life
spk_0
Yeah, now I'm playing the drums in the garage
spk_0
Probably to the makers of noise
spk_0
But it's they moved out yet
spk_0
No, uh, but it's um, it's my concentration for even that just to pick up a new hobby um, and I like I play my drums every couple of days
spk_0
Um, and that even that I'm enjoying that really playing along to most tunes
spk_0
Um, where it's gonna go on it's obviously not gonna be not gonna be famous or anything
spk_0
Yeah, we'll try to it's just having something another hobby to kick in for a change
spk_0
So did you um, retire from active
spk_0
policing? Is that when you you retired or did you go into something else after? Yeah, I retired after 30 years
spk_0
Um, as a as a warranted place officer you caught you probably caught cold
spk_0
And then I went to um, I had six months off
spk_0
Did a bit of traveling and then I went to another force as a civilian investigator
spk_0
I did that for two years
spk_0
Um, just because it cropped up the job came up and um, I thought oh that sounds good
spk_0
So I did that for two years and then I thought myself and getting towards 16 now. I was thinking was 59
spk_0
Um, and I got a joint with police later. I was 26 27 when I joined the police and I left when I was 57
spk_0
You do 30 years. Yeah, I did this two years with this other force. So it took me up to 59
spk_0
Nearly 16 I thought you know what I need to have some time to myself now
spk_0
I can retire young uh, I might as well
spk_0
Fortunes enough to so see some people don't have the benefits of what we have
spk_0
So I'll take full advantage of it
spk_0
Nice. So then I guess
spk_0
Did that tie in with you getting sober?
spk_0
Yeah, pretty much. Obviously COVID was
spk_0
Jordan the last 12 months of my civilian career if you like that shot to you career
spk_0
um, um, so I was conscious of it then um, with COVID and everything else and then I just thought that that's when I
spk_0
When I finished and I wanted to I don't know become healthier
spk_0
Much healthier than what I was um, that's when I sort of decided is the London marathon actually kicking me into
spk_0
Stop and drinking altogether. So it was it just the decision that I've entered and I've got picked which is quite rare
spk_0
Yeah
spk_0
And then he did you just decide with the training that that was then it?
spk_0
Yeah, well I decided to cut down
spk_0
Which is everyone says that I'm going to cut down that's probably the worst for these we can all use because you don't cut down
spk_0
You can either stop
spk_0
Think about it all the time
spk_0
Um, or you can cut down still think about it all the time but you go back to drinking your normal amount
spk_0
I mean my I mean, I don't know whether it's heavy or not, but I drink between 10, 15, 18 pounds a week and 5 Friday something Sunday
spk_0
Um, which
spk_0
For me, I mean, I know people drink a lot more, but I could put it into that counter
spk_0
So just to reduce that
spk_0
Um, I couldn't
spk_0
All tried to and then it go back up again
spk_0
So just to put that into context yeah because the the danger that we get in because I would drink about eight to ten points
spk_0
The cider on a Friday and Saturday
spk_0
Yeah
spk_0
But I think if you're you're looking at the doctor saying
spk_0
Like one drink is probably the limit even but if you want to be really healthy
spk_0
You wouldn't put any alcohol which is a toxin
spk_0
And into your body so I think
spk_0
When you say yeah, you're doing eight and nights so 16, 18 points
spk_0
Yeah, the doctor probably suggests zero to two at most
spk_0
Um, then it just gives it some sort of context to how unhealthy it actually is because the problem is I mean you could normalize that because that's what I had
spk_0
Um, but I think sometimes people need to understand that
spk_0
It's not normal
spk_0
But when you're in it, it feels normal. Yeah, yeah, I mean you think I'm well. I've only had six points tonight and that's quite good and there's always someone who's worse
spk_0
Oh
spk_0
Yeah, and yeah, we all know people who are worse than people who drink less
spk_0
They might drink a bottle of wine and I don't think it's normal, but you know seven bottles of wine just for one person
spk_0
Is too much
spk_0
But um, yeah, so when the the marathon just gone by the marathon
spk_0
I realized then that China reduced was difficult. So I
spk_0
Um, I thought one thing I need to stop so then I stopped the matter and I realized it was hard
spk_0
And so I went back to drinking after the marathon
spk_0
Not quite as much, but it was building up again
spk_0
And then I thought you know, I need to stop
spk_0
So around about the summer
spk_0
After the April which was the marathon date and then I thought Ryan's gonna quit
spk_0
Um, I did try quitting in between those couple of months and I kept going back to drink again
spk_0
But now have a month off then it'll be drink again two months off and then in the end is sort of like that too
spk_0
Um, and it took about three to six months before I felt really really
spk_0
Started to become well. Yeah. Yeah. I think as as well like a lifetime of drinking
spk_0
Yeah, it's an addictive thing
spk_0
And it comes with all the
spk_0
Cultural elements as well. I think people when they stop
spk_0
complacency and people want everything yesterday
spk_0
They think they get all the health benefits and sort of the clearer
spk_0
Mind and clarity that comes with
spk_0
And I'm having sort of brain fog from alcohol. It it takes
spk_0
Three to 12 months probably of not drinking for that properly kicking
spk_0
Yeah, I mean the sleep for me was the biggest
spk_0
because um, I'd gone from
spk_0
probably
spk_0
My sleep pattern with the five or six hours a night
spk_0
Uh, especially working
spk_0
Which probably some people would say that's normal but I knew I was at by come come to the weekend
spk_0
I'd want more sleep, but you wouldn't get it because you're drinking
spk_0
Um, but now so you can seven to eight hours a night
spk_0
deep sleep
spk_0
Um, but my nightmare not nightmares that's the wrong word my dreams
spk_0
For six seven months was so vivid
spk_0
Yeah, it was I mean, I was waking up thinking oh my god. What was that about? And I'd never have dreams
spk_0
I've never had dreams like that at all in my life and there these dreams are coming through
spk_0
And then that and then these they subsided and and then
spk_0
That's probably about 89 months into
spk_0
No, no drink at all
spk_0
Um, and then the east off but my sleep sleep was so so good now
spk_0
You know what? It's I got into
spk_0
When I was sober for a bit. I got into sort of like deep sleeping and trying to
spk_0
Create these vivid dreams. I forget what the name of it is
spk_0
But they're really cool
spk_0
Like is he you literally think like am I in this is this real?
spk_0
Um, but then every so often chucked him as like a drinking and a drug dream where
spk_0
I would have had about ten packs of cocaine and then I wake up in the morning. I'm like
spk_0
Shit
spk_0
I'm glad that didn't happen in real life
spk_0
It is the colorful dreams
spk_0
But I think all my dreams are very much
spk_0
Based on past experiences. They've come to the fore and
spk_0
I'll be living through things that I've experienced before and
spk_0
Uh some of them enjoyable some of them funny. I mean I woke up laughing
spk_0
In some of the dreams because there's the funny things I've gone on
spk_0
Yeah, but now I don't my dreams are all pretty much they've all gone. I don't have any dreams
spk_0
Don't you want if you want vivid dreams?
spk_0
Magnesium supplements they
spk_0
They do something is this weird
spk_0
Um, but yeah
spk_0
But magnesium's also good for post run recovery as well
spk_0
I'll keep you going. Not not just take a nose for dreams
spk_0
um
spk_0
real so
spk_0
So really 60s in
spk_0
um, and I guess
spk_0
something that
spk_0
Is a separate thing
spk_0
But retirement planning and sort of finding purpose in retirement
spk_0
So I've always worked as a financial planner helping people financially in retirement
spk_0
But what a lot of people don't realize is the emotional and
spk_0
Going from working and having routine and structure every day
spk_0
To then not having routine and structure every day
spk_0
leads people to drink more
spk_0
Um, like that's about to retire he's 71
spk_0
Um, and he does drink still uh, he drinks less since I've got sober which is good
spk_0
But my worry is that
spk_0
When he gets home from golf um
spk_0
He then starts drinking
spk_0
But you've got sober
spk_0
So how have you found the retiring element?
spk_0
And how do you think the sobriety helps with sort of giving you
spk_0
That sense of purpose in retirement I guess
spk_0
Yeah, okay
spk_0
Well for me retirement was to begin with was was difficult um
spk_0
I had those six months off after full-time work
spk_0
In the in the police force and I did I did find it I just
spk_0
had so much time and
spk_0
I started doing lots of things and I was doing more things and in the end I thought about going back to work
spk_0
Which it did um and then I went after about six and nine months in my
spk_0
For that two-year period I reduced my hours
spk_0
So we're reducing our hours helped I think
spk_0
So I was working three and a half four days a week
spk_0
Which which helped me towards finishing completely
spk_0
But yeah, I think bored and does does kick in and you've got a lichy feel the time with it especially when you're not drinking
spk_0
But when I'll probably look forward to the weekend
spk_0
I still had it in my head not to drink during the week even when I wasn't
spk_0
I'd retired
spk_0
Which I managed to stick to that
spk_0
The other occasion you know something to crop up in the weekend. I love a drink
spk_0
um, but um
spk_0
I was drinking the weekend so I'd look forward to the weekends as we all do and then
spk_0
It started to go through the phase of not drinking
spk_0
So um that and I have but I had so much more time on my hands
spk_0
Had all these things I had to do to fill my time
spk_0
And but
spk_0
I like it if to begin with it felt like such a long day a Saturday because all the football would be on
spk_0
And I'll be thinking oh god
spk_0
I'm gonna get through today not I'm gonna drink
spk_0
I'd start thinking about the drink around 12 o'clock in the day
spk_0
Sports is sort of kicking off football early kickoffs half past 12
spk_0
Listen to the football watching the football
spk_0
So in the end I had to come away from that and go I'd go for a run to be honest
spk_0
Sadly after nearly like a five or six mile run
spk_0
That would really help me especially the weekend
spk_0
Yeah
spk_0
Jim on a Sunday
spk_0
So that really helped me bring things back around
spk_0
But mentally I was thinking of our drinking
spk_0
all the time
spk_0
This is just uh before and go on it's actually a good thing to note that
spk_0
that period of time I
spk_0
It would trigger me as well because it's it's a cultural thing watching
spk_0
swallows news
spk_0
People talk about football results come in and then go to the pub and then watch football or whatever or go to
spk_0
At a season ticket full of the time
spk_0
And
spk_0
But it's important to highlight that you physically taking yourself out of a triggering environment
spk_0
And you've done running which will change the way that you think
spk_0
And it will
spk_0
reduce the cravings it might not like you said saturdays are a big trigger
spk_0
But that's a really useful tool
spk_0
Um to use running at certain times or go for a walk or do something yoga
spk_0
Anything that gets the body moving gets you out of that
spk_0
mindset of sitting in that craving because that's ultimately when
spk_0
Um people can lapse
spk_0
Yeah, and that lasted quite a long time
spk_0
Literally at month and month and month at weekend
spk_0
I'd always think about
spk_0
And this is without any stress or any pressure
spk_0
You either bump in the road to to pressure
spk_0
Or something that's cropped up in the family and then you know, then it's it adds more
spk_0
It's more of a trigger
spk_0
And but just the weekends alone no stress no pressure
spk_0
It's you you've drunk kind of saturday or a weekend or Friday or Sunday whatever it may be some comes out
spk_0
And then there's something that kicks you into it
spk_0
You just got that little thing in your back pocket to take you away take you mentally away
spk_0
So I picked up on that quite quickly and probably reading your books again
spk_0
I keep saying that but little things you said in your books makes you think oh, you know that you spot on
spk_0
Um, and then when you when you're living through it then you realize you you put these things in place now I'll play music
spk_0
I'll go on the garage. I'll just play. I'll play two hours of music and put me a little things ease in
spk_0
Find the way in the drums and and I've gone, you know, it's it's seven o'clock on the saturday night
spk_0
I think neighbors have had enough I've had enough and I'm over it then
spk_0
Yeah, so it's um
spk_0
But yeah, I think everyone's different everyone but just to have those things to do
spk_0
Um, yeah, and again, like the winter nights when they kick in that was always a problem for me
spk_0
So you've just got to go off me if it means
spk_0
Gone for a run but I'm I'm always thinking about people who can't exercise. They're not in that situation where
spk_0
We've still got the health and it's just having something anything to do read what you've done
spk_0
And that's an important point is um, I think
spk_0
Getting sober for me has allowed me to do
spk_0
All the things that I wanted and more like I don't put myself in situations
spk_0
I don't want to be just to test myself. I won't shut myself out of a plane
spk_0
Because that's what people think they should do. No, I do things that are challenging but with what you said with the drums
spk_0
That's another outlet for you that's something else that you've
spk_0
picked up and you enjoy doing in your retirement
spk_0
Um also helps with your sobriety
spk_0
So to me it feels like some of the things are quite intertwined
spk_0
The sobriety allows you to do things you enjoy those more as a result and therefore you're moving further away
spk_0
From ever wanting to drink and ruin all those things so it sounds like your retirement is going
spk_0
Really well because there's things that you're doing
spk_0
You've been to New Zealand as well
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, we're doing a lot of traveling but
spk_0
We've got an old camper van which we go go away in
spk_0
And fairly regularly went to Scotland last year
spk_0
But these are things that if I was in a drinkin's
spk_0
um
spk_0
Have a drinking mind I'd be thinking
spk_0
If you're on holiday for instance you're driving or whatever you whatever you're doing
spk_0
Uh, we've been fortunate enough to do some traveling in other countries as well
spk_0
But it's in Thailand for instance we went to Thailand and spent four or five weeks
spk_0
Charging from Chiang Mai down to Bangkok
spk_0
taking all the buses and the
spk_0
And the small the trains and the coaches
spk_0
uh and but
spk_0
I don't have that weight on my shoulders where I need to get somewhere
spk_0
to um
spk_0
Hotel a B&B whatever it may be to have a drink
spk_0
That's that big weight for me
spk_0
And it was that was a game as well
spk_0
You know, I'm not struggling here to get somewhere quickly as possible
spk_0
So I can
spk_0
Down low to be here
spk_0
And because I'm on holiday it just totally as disintegrated. So now you enjoy your full day
spk_0
It's it's it's weird isn't it like until you said that hadn't really
spk_0
thought about it but
spk_0
I think in the books that I also mentioned the amount of time that goes into planning
spk_0
The drinking because it it's like you said it is it's almost subconscious
spk_0
That your whole day ends in a beer
spk_0
Lots of beers so whatever you're doing the reward at the end
spk_0
Is to have alcohol um
spk_0
But I guess once you take that away then
spk_0
It you're you're you're not restricting
spk_0
What you do
spk_0
To go and find alcohol which was every holiday and every post-round
spk_0
Yeah, sorry if he just throws on the screen
spk_0
Yeah, so I was just saying that it I've related in terms of
spk_0
Every round of golf. I always did ended in a beer and sometimes it wasn't
spk_0
playing golf for the sake of enjoying golf. It was playing golf to drink a beer
spk_0
And I still people know I play golf with that
spk_0
Rather just have the beer
spk_0
Yes, and also there's the following day where you've got another day to enjoy and your hungover and you've got a travel
spk_0
um
spk_0
You know, you know, you know, we're going from one place to another now
spk_0
And all the years when I've thought about I thought I don't feel like it today
spk_0
And you sat there on a train or on a plane or whatever it may be on the beach channel recover and and
spk_0
You just don't do the things that or we're not doing the things that we do now which is like the day's
spk_0
domestic scursions
spk_0
Oh, miss flights
spk_0
It's it's um but now my day is so full and I can do so many things and I see so much more
spk_0
and a remembering
spk_0
Yeah, so it's
spk_0
I think yeah, sometimes take for granted
spk_0
The the freedom of
spk_0
Not obsessing over alcohol as such as deep subconscious level that actually
spk_0
all the plans are going on holiday
spk_0
Center around
spk_0
Getting as drunk as possible and then ruining like it really hits home actually like the amount of missed
spk_0
Paid for excursions on numerous holidays when I used to drink that we'd wake up the next day and go
spk_0
Ah, I'm not feeling too great after last night. Should we just sack off that 200 pound
spk_0
safari
spk_0
on camels etc
spk_0
um
spk_0
But on the flip side sobriety and sober holidays are my favorite like I love going away with
spk_0
April we we go and try and explore the UK a bit because
spk_0
You forget how beautiful the UK it's like I love Chester. I love all that part
spk_0
But we went up to the lake districts last year and then drove up to Loughman
spk_0
And then onto the other parts of Scotland like one thing I would say is I will never do that drive again, but
spk_0
You just get the time to do all the things that
spk_0
You never did when you were
spk_0
Drinking which is one of the biggest benefits again sober
spk_0
But what it's funny how you can hear it in other people's voices when the talk in abundance if you're with other people in your
spk_0
Traveler you can tell that they're itching
spk_0
To get to where they want to go to because
spk_0
So it's the comments so we stayed
spk_0
We went to Tenerife in
spk_0
March and we stayed uh
spk_0
I wouldn't do it again, but we stayed in a very corporate hotel which is what I would have liked when I was drinking but
spk_0
Everything revolves around alcohol and all the comments throughout the day about people
spk_0
drinking and and like everything
spk_0
Like you become conscious to what used to be very self-conscious
spk_0
Which is a good thing because you sort of see how crazy
spk_0
That obsession is in other people's eyes
spk_0
Um
spk_0
Which at personal levels just a good reminder of
spk_0
um
spk_0
How odd it all seems
spk_0
I mean it sounds cool on you this book and everyone's long most people say the same thing
spk_0
I wish I'd have discovered this
spk_0
Years ago because um
spk_0
I would have felt a lot better seen a lot more of the world hopefully and uh experience a lot more than just
spk_0
Living for the weekends and drinking and being half-cooked by seven o'clock at night and
spk_0
And uh the right that's it days over might spend it's um
spk_0
And now it's the one thing I would caveat though is I remember when I was in rehab there was a lady who was
spk_0
78 and she was looking to get sober. I think
spk_0
Like there's lots of things I regret from our past but
spk_0
He's is done
spk_0
Um the fact that you've got sober when you've got sober when society would say to you
spk_0
What's the point? Yeah is brilliant and it's really inspiring
spk_0
Um for other people to hear because
spk_0
You're right people get to point where they think you know what
spk_0
I want to make the most of whatever time we have left here um
spk_0
And getting sober I think when drinking takes up so much time
spk_0
Is probably one of the most powerful things that people can do yeah. I mean it doesn't go without any harm
spk_0
I mean even now I do think it crosses my mind I still have the
spk_0
The feelings of um what's what's the harm in a drink
spk_0
Um even I'm not sure when that's going to go. I mean I do go out now go to the pub
spk_0
Um, I meet some friends down again. I'll just drink soft drinks
spk_0
And I was spending a bit of time with zero beers
spk_0
I but I think that was just a bit of a
spk_0
um
spk_0
A crunch just to just to use at the time but now I don't even need that
spk_0
But it does I do look at people when they're raising their pint of the lips and you see the larga and I'm thinking
spk_0
Looks nice though
spk_0
Uh, but I can't get rid of feeling
spk_0
And so to be honest, if you think about it you
spk_0
um
spk_0
You were a drink of four of the vast majority of your life. Yeah
spk_0
So you think of all that conditioning. It's deeply ingrained almost into your soul
spk_0
Um, and when when I was in a a like there there was some really clever things that they knew hundreds the
spk_0
100 years ago I think it's written
spk_0
Um, but it is the obsession and that obsession stays with you
spk_0
Potentially forever and that's partly why they created groups so you would go to an a meeting once two three times a week
spk_0
Because it it helps stop
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that obsession turning into
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drinking
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And because every so often you have to bring up to the forefront of why am I getting sober
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For these reasons
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Therefore next time I go to the pub
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I'm stronger in my resolve because I've reminded myself of why I'm doing it and I think
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Seeing you on the group is shows that you don't want to get complacent coming on here shows that you don't want to get complacent
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um and like everything
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talking about
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Talking about it means it's then not a weight on your shoulders
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um, and that's part of the self awareness and the the journey of
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Staying sober but also sort of recovering
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Yourself from going back down that
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Root again. Yeah, I mean we've had great fun over the years. What do you and what we've done?
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But you know, and I don't want to lose that fun. I still like to go and socialize
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And it's just that I'm the one that's not drinking now most of my friends all drink
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And so well, it's it's it's a channel. It's that fine line of up. I still want to engage in and I've fun and talk and
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But I don't want to slip
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So it's always a balance and act not to
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Yeah, because I don't I don't want to lose what I've got now
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Yeah, and I guess yeah, I can see that because you you want all the benefits of sobriety
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But I guess I guess as well
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what you learn
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To do is build
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You can be a confident person anyway, but I guess
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Within that pub environment when people've had a couple of drinks they start getting louder
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Loser with what they say
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Um, I certainly was I've always been quite prim and proper but after one drink I was a foul
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Mouth person because I just got very loose with it
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Um, and I guess in that environment you you need to balance not being triggered
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Um, but also just wanting to naturally feel confident in yourself. Does that sound about right? Yeah, it's it's about learning
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And I'm not sure if you've written this or somebody else's book. It's learning to socialize again
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Um, I mean yeah, I feel I'm always fairly confident anyway, but in that environment where people are louder
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And drunken and having fun and jumping off tables
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To a degree
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You can't you don't feel like you can do that, but you feel
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Like you can it's about building up your conversation again not in drink
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And obviously when people start repeating themselves not making sense
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swearing
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Bounce off tables then usually it's time to go then isn't it all that that's what I was about to say that is
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Yeah, my time to go when they say the second story again, which wasn't
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That interesting in the first place
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Yeah, where's he gone? I was gonna. He doesn't drink doesn't he?
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Don't remind him again. Okay, that suits me
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But you know the funny thing is like um, the biggest thing that I've learned in sobriety is
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People was so busy with their own lives
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You could be really good friends with someone
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But they still have their own things that they do and ways that they deal with their own stresses that
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You not being there for the last hour and a half two hours of the evening really doesn't matter to anyone
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It doesn't you get to keep your sanity and wake up hangover free and do your running training or strict work or whatever and
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They're probably waking up the next day going. I wish I was a bit like Nick
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But maybe I mean we can pass something onto some people they do even need to drink drink less
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Um, it's a good thing isn't it's got to be a good thing or or completely abstain
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And I think the best way I would say to people is
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You can't tell people to cut down you can't
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Like I never put any stuff about saying you need to do this or you need to do that
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All you can do is act as a soundboard and like I'm sober for me
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And the reasons I do this is because I benefit with dot dot dot dot dot
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And then it's like an energy people can fill the
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The way that you've changed now and the way that you turn up
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And subconsciously that that has an impact on people in in a positive way they might resent you but
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Um, it's a positive reflection if you're not constantly saying I think you should cut down drinking because I have no one's ego likes that
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And also I mean people only ask if they cure it
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I mean to begin with I tell people and you know, I'm not I'm not drinking because of these reasons and it'd be like oh right and they've gone and sit somewhere else
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Uh oh, but now I let people ask me they say oh you're not drinking so now
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Not as a drinker so long and they'll ask you why and if they're interested
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Um, oh they'll just go on the just ignore it
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Um, but so I'm sort of drinking buddies. I've had in the past some
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pals and they've just been drinking buddies and I don't really see them now
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But I've moved on I've got other friends now who I'm x-rayed in it. It doesn't matter to me
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But I don't force it down the throats about what I do
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Uh, what I'm doing because at the end of the day I could fall off tomorrow couldn't I?
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Um, you know, but I'm I'm hoping to stay stick the course on that to me, don't
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But I don't I don't preach to anyone
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Yeah, I think that's the best thing I do you do it for yourself and people
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Yeah, sort of see that change as well
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Yeah
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Yeah, I mean, it's so much like you he's fascinating because I've spoken to you
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Over the years, but I've never in any depth, but he's been really fascinating
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getting to understand your story and
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How sobriety has helped your retirement to allow you to do more and get healthier which yeah, I think
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The brilliant promotional thing for retirement like
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In in an idea of well if people want to live as long and as
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Happy as they can
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You wouldn't be poisoned in your body
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You'd be more conscious about the food that you put in your body. You'd be doing regular strength training and
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Running's healthy taking up new hobbies also so that time isn't then spent drinking like you're drumming
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Whether your neighbors like it or not doesn't matter
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Um, but there's so much going on and you see such a positive thing because I think
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sobriety is for anyone at any point who
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Who just wants to have a better
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Standard life for themselves
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So I think you coming on will inspire people and very grateful for
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Your time coming on as well
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Thanks for inviting me and if you need to be interviewed I can interview you maybe in the next one
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I'd like to know a bit more about you
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Yeah, bro. Yeah, to be honest, I'm actually supposed to uh, I've done this a bit backwards like a Star Wars trilogy or
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Whatever it is now. There's probably 20 old films
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Um, but I am going to start this season with
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um
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Seven years sober and and lessons from it
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Um, so yeah, I might get you on as the host
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Um, yeah, bro. Thanks very much Nick. Um, hopefully we'll we'll get you on again at some point maybe work when you're in New Zealand
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um again, no doubt
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Um, and yeah, thanks very much
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You take a good day golf time as well. Yeah, cheers
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You