Culture
September Book Club and Author Interview | Trading Secrets by Rachael Eckles
In this episode of Professional Book Girl, host Kayla interviews author Rachael Eckles about her debut novel, 'Trading Secrets,' the first book in the Celeste Donovan series. They discuss th...
September Book Club and Author Interview | Trading Secrets by Rachael Eckles
Culture •
0:00 / 0:00
Interactive Transcript
spk_0
Hello, welcome to another episode of Professional Book Girl.
spk_0
My name is Kayla and I already have a ton of books that I recommend.
spk_0
The best to you and today is the September book called Episode and is a very special
spk_0
on me as I am joined by the author of our September pick trading secrets, Rachel Eccles.
spk_0
Welcome to Professional Book Girl.
spk_0
Thank you for having me.
spk_0
I'm so excited to be here.
spk_0
So, census is a book of episode.
spk_0
If you are, you know, if you listen to this podcast, you know we are going to spoil the
spk_0
book trading secrets in this episode.
spk_0
If you have not yet read the book, go off and read it and then you can come back.
spk_0
And we're going to deep dive everything that happens and this one is full of wild twists
spk_0
and turns.
spk_0
So as I was reading it, it was one of those where I was like, oh, thank God I'm chatting
spk_0
with the author because I just need to pick your brain about so many things.
spk_0
So this is your spoiler warning from now on like this book.
spk_0
So Rachel, can you describe, I guess, both, because this is a three book series, a third book,
spk_0
blind trust, literally just came out.
spk_0
Can you describe both the series and then the first book which we're going to be really
spk_0
deep diving trading secrets, both in one sentence?
spk_0
So trading secrets is book one in the Celeste Donovan series and it's really a genre-defying
spk_0
blend of high stakes thriller and romantic suspense.
spk_0
It is a very luxurious revenge plot.
spk_0
There is jet setting all across the world with, you know, tap finance markets with New
spk_0
York, London, Paris, the Middle East, Africa and beyond.
spk_0
So if you like traveling, if you like finance, if you like romantic suspense and thrillers,
spk_0
you're in the right place.
spk_0
In trading secrets was, it was my debut novel and I had so much fun writing Celeste character
spk_0
and building out this platform for her of what I knew would be a multi-book series.
spk_0
Where did the initial idea come from?
spk_0
I've always loved reading and my favorite books were always very strong female main character
spk_0
driven series.
spk_0
I was never super heavy into literary fiction.
spk_0
I always wanted the relationships and the female character who was messy and, you know,
spk_0
sort of Samantha and sex in the city, but, you know, kind of kicking ass at her career
spk_0
but had this personal life that was very humanizing to read.
spk_0
So I always loved that and I wanted to see more of that in literature.
spk_0
I was always searching for that in literature and television, film, et cetera.
spk_0
And it really came to a head for me when I started working in securities litigation.
spk_0
I was reading traders' emails all day, so like their instant message chat on Bloomberg
spk_0
chats.
spk_0
And it just struck me how there were no women in the conversations and the audacity of
spk_0
the men in the conversations was just, I mean, it was just jaw dropping as a woman and
spk_0
I was like, I just want a woman to be in these chats to kind of tell these men to behave better.
spk_0
And so that's really where the idea from where Celeste came from was we need more women in these
spk_0
rooms.
spk_0
Yeah, I love that. I had like a brief ray in tech and I was one of the few women and they're
spk_0
like, I come from fashion, which was all women. It was just like, it's so important for women
spk_0
to be in those spaces, but also once you are, it is like a very jargon wild experience,
spk_0
not so bad as things that happened in this book. But yeah, it's like I was like getting a
spk_0
little like PTSD back to those days.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
So you knew right away this was going to be a series, right? Or did you, because the first
spk_0
book I installed with a huge like more to come, it reminded me of Marvel, like Celeste on
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
So yes.
spk_0
Kind of like, when did you know and how do you plot a series when you're in the first book?
spk_0
That's a great question. So I knew from the very beginning it would be at least a trilogy.
spk_0
And I had a very broad idea of the three things that would happen in each of the three books.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
There are two types of novelists you may have heard other authors say that's there are plotters
spk_0
and panzers. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about my writing style or process, but I would
spk_0
definitely be considered a panzer. So I have some general idea of how a book is going to end.
spk_0
I do a lot of travel when I'm traveling. I'm like, this restaurant would be perfect. I have to
spk_0
put like a really great scene in this restaurant. And this is the food they would be eating. And so
spk_0
I'm always thinking about it from that perspective, not on my outline on page four. This is the thing
spk_0
that has to happen. Okay.
spk_0
So I'm really one of those people who my writing process happens organically just from spending time
spk_0
in the chair and really letting sort of the muse flow through me while I'm writing. That said,
spk_0
as I mentioned, I did have a general idea of the way the three books would turn out. And as I was
spk_0
writing the second one, I was like, I'm really enjoying the evolution of these characters in the storyline.
spk_0
I don't know if I can wrap it up in three. And then when I was writing this one, I was like,
spk_0
there's absolutely no way there's only going to be three books. So I had initially released it
spk_0
as a trilogy. And that's what it said on the covers and everything. And we changed that.
spk_0
This printing to say series. So, well, at least we one more. I can guarantee that.
spk_0
Okay. So many questions from that because so if you're a dancer and you know, at first,
spk_0
you knew it was going to be three books. Did any plans you had for say book two change based on what
spk_0
you ended up writing for book one? Yes. I want to be careful that I'm not giving away any spoilers.
spk_0
But we can we can after you guys read the second and third books, we can go full circle.
spk_0
But there were certainly some things that evolved in the way I thought they would pan out in book two.
spk_0
And I also thought that one of the plot twists that were really important to the storyline would
spk_0
happen earlier than it ended up happening. So once I realized that it wasn't time yet, I had to kind
spk_0
of go back and figure out what needed to happen to make it a really natural progression of the plot.
spk_0
So interesting. So I'd love to just deep dive into a few of the characters obviously Celeste,
spk_0
who is the main character of the series. She like, there's so much plot happening in this book and
spk_0
there's so many genres at the same time, but the characters really like it, I wouldn't say the
spk_0
characters are driven, but like the characters just stand so strong. Like they, Celeste was so badass.
spk_0
I'm like comparing her to Samantha, like I think that's perfect. And I love that she kind of
spk_0
embodies like that conversation of like, can women have it all? Like she's so powerful in her
spk_0
career and she's so then like powerful in her love life and the fashion and everything we're
spk_0
formed hers. It's something not a spark of idea and then you sat down and she was born.
spk_0
She was and I'll probably have the same thing to say about a few other characters. She just
spk_0
existed as she existed when I started writing. So there were characters that I had to go back and
spk_0
flesh out and you know, do the, what was their astrological sign or you know kind of what,
spk_0
what are they like? What did they look like? Whatever she just always existed to me as she was. So
spk_0
in the series, she's a high powered finance executive. She's the co-founder of now a wildly
spk_0
successful billion dollar hedge fund. She seems to have everything right? She has the Pint House
spk_0
apartment. She's has a supermodel physique and a mathematician mind. She is at the top of her
spk_0
game and every way at the outset of the series. So she really I think shows up so well and so
spk_0
embodied and bodies her character and it's either you're a New Yorker, right? Yeah. So I think
spk_0
a lot of in my experience most New York women that read this book love this character because I
spk_0
think there are a lot of us who are like her embodiment of a New York woman, right? A mother
spk_0
was interesting. I'm from the Midwest and when I went back home and went around to some book clubs,
spk_0
they're not used to seeing women like this all the time. And so she was really off-putting at the
spk_0
beginning of the book. That was the feedback they gave me and they were like, but I've just fell in
spk_0
love with her so much as she evolved when I saw like everything she had been through and how hard
spk_0
it was for her to get where she was. So it became this kind of interesting thing to me where she is
spk_0
much more relatable than it seems at the very beginning of a series and it's much to do with her
spk_0
evolution. But I was happy to see that they stuck with the series because I was like, I know you're
spk_0
going to win to love her. You just have to understand that this is who she is and she is in a room of
spk_0
giants in the finance world and she has earned every second that she's spent there and she can go
spk_0
toe-to-toe with any of them. And then she also goes to her fitness classes in the morning at 5 a.m.
spk_0
That's her matcha. So she's sort of doing all of the things that we're doing and is the embodiment of
spk_0
like if we were operating at our optimal levels. Yeah, that's so interesting because I mean so much
spk_0
of this book felt so New York to me even like when they're at like a club or a restaurant. It's just
spk_0
like you, I mean I had my clubbing days in college. But like you just like you've seen people like
spk_0
this around or like we I watch tic talks about girls who are like going to the gym out for a
spk_0
treasy Anderson or 4 a.m. and then like going into like work at Goldman or something and it's it's
spk_0
felt so grounded in like a life in New York that I don't live but that I'm so familiar with.
spk_0
But even just of her like her strength because you to be in these rooms with men like this like
spk_0
you have to be a bit of a bitch and I use the word bitch like endearingly because I think that's
spk_0
powerful like I always say I'd rather be a bitch than a brat. Like she can go toe to toe with
spk_0
them and I like I really loved that but it is so interesting to hear like at this country how
spk_0
people resonate with things so differently. Absolutely. And you know you mentioned the restaurants
spk_0
and the clubs. There's no question that she's a taste maker. So she has inviable standards for
spk_0
things that we all aspire to. You mentioned her fashion. It is really fun writing the outfits.
spk_0
I had to I had to balance her being very fashion forward with the realities of like you know she
spk_0
can't wear like even though she is someone that if I were addressing her I'd want to have her in a
spk_0
mini skirt and you know knee high boots all the time like she can't always wear that to work right.
spk_0
So I tried to give her a mix of like edgy with the sort of work attire that she would have to wear
spk_0
realistic setting but it was so fun to do that. And then what's kind of evolved out of this over the
spk_0
years is the Celeste approved idea. So now we have a stamp and we're going to start doing more with
spk_0
the Celeste approved restaurants and hotels and spa experiences. So I think she's she has such a
spk_0
loyal fan base now. So I just want to you know honor that and then additionally a lot of people come
spk_0
back to me and they're like you know I assume I annual review at work and I was just thinking
spk_0
what would Celeste say right now or what would Celeste do. And I love that it's empowering women to
spk_0
like ask for more like you know that that sort of tactic where they tell you to pretend you're
spk_0
advocating for your best friend instead of yourself and you'll be more likely to ask for for what
spk_0
you deserve. It's kind of similar I think when you're you're embodying someone else's behaviors
spk_0
we're like no she wouldn't tolerate this I'm not going to either. It's so much.
spk_0
Back to her clothes so I'm a huge fashion girl like I went to FAT I started my career in fashion
spk_0
and I loved I loved the fashion and I kind of imagined her in like super chic like
spk_0
workwear but like I was like someone used to you on this that way and like they're bagging their
spk_0
shoes are so good and you're like oh this woman like it has money she has like such good taste she
spk_0
just like has to stick to like the office dress code like the total like the real office
spk_0
iron not like how people interpret it on TikTok. Yeah. Were you like shopping for her or like how
spk_0
did that because they're it's very specific about what she's wearing. Yeah I always do so real
spk_0
building is super important to me I don't know if every author does as much as I do but like I
spk_0
really do pick out like every outfit that she wears and I shop for it and I think about you know
spk_0
what the other characters would be wearing and it was actually really fun to dress them in
spk_0
in the book in the books too because you know when you're in relationships you get kind of pushback
spk_0
I kind of want to wear that sweater and it's like well now you have to wear that sweater because
spk_0
you're my character and I'm putting you in that sweater. So it was really fun but I do you know I
spk_0
sit on like Netaporte like the Khrumagazines and like oh this is exactly what she would wear to
spk_0
Braunschem Paris and I do like you know I know that like there are things that people are shifting
spk_0
away from like super high heels and stuff and I'm I'm 45 so I I love a foreign heel and like you
spk_0
will have to take me out of them someday but like I love them but I I always wanted her to be in the
spk_0
heels because she's already tall and then it just gives so much more of like like a power
spk_0
play with anyone else in the room so she's going to be as tall as even the taller men
spk_0
and she's always sort of owning the room that she's in. Yeah I feel like too for her
spk_0
world like she has to be in Estelleau. Like it just like it tracks so um oh that's so much fun.
spk_0
So you mentioned earlier about like I don't know if you just was just an off-hand comment but like
spk_0
an astrological chart for another character like do you go that deep with Celeste? So with her
spk_0
I still go back and forth because I think she's definitely a fire sign of um without question
spk_0
but my mom my sister and I are all fire signs and we're all so different so I waver between
spk_0
Alio and Alio Aries and Sage um but then she has this the standards that she holds herself to
spk_0
in the way she's so organized she has almost that like Virgo influence as well or a lot of my
spk_0
friends or Taurus's who are like I already have our spreadsheet for our trip lined up you know
spk_0
so I see a lot of influences her in her that could just be type A or a product of the environment
spk_0
you're working in if you're in finance you're going to develop those skills more but also I just
spk_0
think that I think she has to have an underlying fire sign because she is just so larger than life
spk_0
and no matter what happens she is unafraid to take up space and as different as my mom my sister and I
spk_0
all are I think that we all sort of have that ingrained in us whereas my dad who's a Libra is like
spk_0
I'll sit in the back I'll be quiet you know if I need to like I don't need to be the center of
spk_0
attention so I think that that ownership she has with commanding the room is very much a fire sign
spk_0
probably is more Leo than Sage I'm a sage um Leo oh okay oh funny um so yeah I think it might be
spk_0
more Leo that she's the natural born leader and she's the one that's kind of like come on
spk_0
seven we're 25 we're gonna do this like here's another next and he's like okay
spk_0
um that's so fun so let's talk about the men in her life um starting with Omar which
spk_0
you know we're gonna get bleak and then we'll turn it around this is a very like
spk_0
random comment and I but I know some people listening will know this reference do you watch bravo
spk_0
uh I don't but I probably another reference there is a show next gen NYC
spk_0
and it's like yelling people in New York like in their 20s and this girl is dating this like
spk_0
finance guy named Omar oh my gosh after the show finished airing the summer it came out he
spk_0
actually turns out he's like a massive like scammer uh and I then I'm reading this about and like
spk_0
and he's a really shitty guy and then I'm reading this and I was like what is is it just the name
spk_0
in here speaking about Omar's um so we know like right when the book opens up that she has a
spk_0
past with this guy and um we'll we'll get into in a second like how deep it goes and it it goes
spk_0
places but how where did this decision come from to like have it be an abusive acts and then kind
spk_0
of you know he it's I guess it is textbook abuse but he's fully entwined and kind of like every
spk_0
he now he's involved in her career and like the law like where did all of that come from
spk_0
I think that every woman has you know at least one ex that they could say this guy exhibited
spk_0
these behaviors that you know the TikTok therapists are talking about right this guy is a narcissist
spk_0
or he's a you know however you want to categorize it but I think narcissists is sort of the theme of
spk_0
the day lately and we've all been there right and I dated a New York City for over a decade I've
spk_0
and I'm not just saying this is New York I'm not saying like New York City men are all like Omar
spk_0
but there happened to be a lot of people here there are 8 million people here and when you are
spk_0
dating actively single you meet a lot of different kinds of people so the stereotypical
spk_0
finance bro or finance guy traits that were in him you know weren't that hard it wasn't a stretch
spk_0
right like you could all have written those scenes um but I wanted like I said I wanted to
spk_0
see more strong women in literature but I wanted to hold space for the fact that like even if a
spk_0
woman is kicking ass like she's probably overcome something really difficult and if I just gave her
spk_0
you know if she just appeared in this series and she's gorgeous and brilliant and rich and you know
spk_0
like sophisticated and witty and all the things it wouldn't be accurate for how much women to end up
spk_0
that way usually have to fight to get there so there had to be some trauma for her evolution to make
spk_0
sense throughout the series um so I thought that the timing and her life of when it happened she
spk_0
was in our 20s it's a really um you know for a minute of decade I think where dating is
spk_0
you're sort of the blind leading the blind with your friends right everybody's making questionable
spk_0
decisions and tolerating questionable things because you're it's you're learning and
spk_0
if you if you see how it evolves through the storyline you know at first he's loved bombing and he's
spk_0
so amazing and he's handsome and he's rich and he's dashing and all the things and then it becomes
spk_0
this very very possessive very toxic relationship very quickly and it's it's almost how it happens
spk_0
in real life it's almost like whiplash where you don't even realize how far in you are yeah and
spk_0
then you look back and you're like oh my god how did I get here and she's like I don't even know if
spk_0
I love this guy and I'm tolerating all of these things so I thought for her evolution where it opens
spk_0
when she's 41 um she had to have that really uncomfortable time in her 20s and it was important to
spk_0
me for women who have been through trauma to have someone in fiction that they could see like they
spk_0
came out on the other side of it yeah and I'm not saying like you know everything she does throughout
spk_0
the series is therapeutically what you should do with you um been a survivor of any sort of trauma but
spk_0
it it just shows that you can you know there's something empowering about her being able to kind of
spk_0
rise up from the dust you know the phoenix sort of symbolism totally I was I always say like there's
spk_0
nothing that's too dark for me which I know is something that I need to like talk to a church
spk_0
therapist about um but that that scene when she's in her 20s and then she like she eventually ends
spk_0
up miscarrying I thought that was like so brutal like hard to read because I could just like
spk_0
imagine it so visceral like what was it like for you to have to sit down and write that
spk_0
so the in the time frame when I was writing that um big little lies had just come out and was on
spk_0
HBO and I loved that series I didn't read the books but I loved the series uh and I've done a lot
spk_0
of work with um women's policy organizations throughout my career I'm a lawyer I've done you
spk_0
know some volunteer work um advocating for survivors and fundraising etc so I'm familiar with
spk_0
the space I understand why um filmmakers or authors and publishers are mindful of what you are
spk_0
exposing survivors to but I do think there's an opportunity for the women who have never been
spk_0
a who have never experienced any sort of trauma like that and for the men in their lives
spk_0
to understand like this isn't just how it happened on that show right it's not just like
spk_0
they're drunk and like they come to the hotel room and like she wakes up the next morning crying
spk_0
I wanted to help people who don't understand what it's like who don't understand why we need
spk_0
crisis clinics why we need plant parenthoods why we need places for women and girls to go when they
spk_0
are victims of trauma so that they can be survivors and can thrive again I wanted them to know what
spk_0
it's what it's like a little bit more um and I there are some books that have um you know it is
spk_0
it is very graphic and at the time I wrote it I didn't know a lot of other a lot of other books that
spk_0
were that graphic in a scene like that um but it was important to me not to brush it under the rug
spk_0
I knew so many friends that were survivors I mean three out of four women typically have been
spk_0
a you know survived some sort of trauma or assault and it's not that common that there are people
spk_0
who haven't experienced anything but I was like I want them to be able to be allies and I want
spk_0
them to understand what it's like to go through it I'd spent many many months talking with women in
spk_0
my life who were survivors and asking them to read it asking them if it was okay asking them if the
spk_0
pace was well asking them if it went too far asking them what they thought about all of the different
spk_0
aspects of that scene and interestingly it's only like four pages or something I think but it is
spk_0
such a it does set such an undertone I think for Celeste character that she had to go through
spk_0
something like that um and it's honestly more realistic than the you know oh like you put
spk_0
something in my drink and I woke up the next day and I was like a little confused about what happened
spk_0
you know I wanted I wanted something real and I am the publisher and I decided that I was going
spk_0
to publish the scene that I thought would hopefully move us along in a policy conversation more
spk_0
the book was released right around the Me Too movement okay and I was hoping that we would um you
spk_0
know I think if you had asked me five years ago if we were we are today I would definitely not
spk_0
think that was real life but um at the time I had really high hopes that we were going to be able to
spk_0
make some significant progress and and I think we still can in the future but we have a long way to go
spk_0
yeah um I feel like it made it raised the stakes for everything that was to come
spk_0
then with Omar like if you like you said if you was like oh he put something in my drink obviously
spk_0
that is a horrible thing and you as the reader absolutely but like just the feeling that I had
spk_0
then continued then all of a sudden when like the flowers show up I was like oh like this this
spk_0
person is bad yeah they're back um so then what was the ending also was just like fascinating to me
spk_0
them on this boat and she's basically prisoner and like these guys are scared to help her because he's
spk_0
threatened their family and he now Omar is like out of control really what was it like what how did
spk_0
that come to you and the difference between you know that initial abuse scene versus the one at the
spk_0
end so it was an interesting position to put her in because she is so powerful and she is so
spk_0
resourceful and that she does find ways to get out of really difficult situations um so when she
spk_0
was younger you know obviously she needed that support system that she had right away in the
spk_0
you know in the moment so she had jack she had angelo she had the doctor that she saw right away
spk_0
and I think it's accurate to say that she would have needed that naturally um at her age and in
spk_0
that level of vulnerability and I hope that everyone to be clear I hope that everyone who is a
spk_0
survivor of any sort of violence has resources I do list resources at the end of my book
spk_0
um but it it should not be dealt with alone right um so I wanted to make sure when she was the younger
spk_0
version of herself that she had that support group and then putting her out you know
spk_0
literally out to see with no way of escaping and just seeing what like she did come up with a lot
spk_0
of like resourceful ideas you know yeah she was kind of um I think if things hadn't escalated
spk_0
and it had gone you know for a few more weeks I think eventually she would have figured out how
spk_0
to make it out of there um but Omar was just so unpredictable and it escalated so quickly
spk_0
and obviously you know the twist at the end um it is it was it was almost um it was difficult to decide
spk_0
if I wanted to include or if it was important to her evolution to include that there was further
spk_0
sexual violence or physical violence but I had to make it realistic of how horrible he had become
spk_0
yeah how there was really no other way it it had to be him or her like there wasn't room in the
spk_0
world for him to exist with her um still around because he was too terrible yeah so that's kind
spk_0
of why I put her like symbolically like out to see you know with no resources no cell phone all the
spk_0
things um or no working cell phone um so that she would kind of have to figure out you know figure
spk_0
her way out of it um but it was it was hard to write I mean after she had already been through
spk_0
what was happened in earlier in the book then it was hard to write again that like oh my gosh
spk_0
like 15 years later she has to go through this again or I might be a little more or less 15
spk_0
years but you know it was really difficult to put her through that again um but it just seemed
spk_0
like realistically what would happen yeah and it was interesting too to see how far she's come and how
spk_0
she was able to handle it so differently um okay so let's talk about the other band in her life
spk_0
theodore so when theodore first came on the scene I was immediately suspicious because he
spk_0
mentioned that he like knew Omar so I was like oh no are they I know who knows who'd be in the
spk_0
office of the series they could be as a girl they're working together um but she really falls for him
spk_0
and it seems it's kind of like there's a whirl in romance what was how did theater come to be and
spk_0
what was it like to write about their relationship in comparison to you know everything with Omar
spk_0
so theodore was an absolute pleasure to write I always think of him as like you know the most
spk_0
interesting man alive like he's a pilot he's you know he's a connoisseur of restaurants and
spk_0
he always knows what wine to order he's um he just he's good at everything right he's well read
spk_0
he's play his manners are impeccable he's always got an interesting story he reminds me of
spk_0
uh you know the way he supports Celeste and the way he builds her up and the way he's so enamored
spk_0
with her um Alex and I were talking about how he reminds us of like Travis Kelsey on the
spk_0
night. He just was like he just was so unabashedly like not like in a love bombing way just by you're
spk_0
amazing let's do this he was engulfed in the curiosity of who she is yeah he was so incredible um
spk_0
and I will tell you a funny aside every man I've ever dated thinks that they are the inspiration
spk_0
for theodore because they tell like people in our circles like oh yeah like well that character was
spk_0
based off of me and it makes me laugh so much because it's like all like oh my god is there a
spk_0
few? No no I mean maybe I'm writing him into existence so it'll be nice uh a few readers have come
spk_0
back and said I really hope that you are writing him into existence yeah but he really is just um
spk_0
he's just aspirational of like the relationship that would be able to make her be a little more
spk_0
in her feminine a little softer able to let someone else take you know take the wheel and it was so
spk_0
uncomfortable for her in the beginning right she's like you sent me flowers like who am I what is
spk_0
happening I don't go on dates this whole thing is a mistake but it was very much like her just being
spk_0
very uncomfortable with someone who was her equal who was in Maleficent and was just bringing like
spk_0
you know I'm just interested in you and in flowers or nice like not anything like to distract
spk_0
her or manipulate her really just showing up like as a solid character so he was so much fun to write
spk_0
and um it'll be interesting you'll enjoy the rest of series if you like yeah so
spk_0
because we could talk about spoilers the O dies and then comes back was this always gonna happen
spk_0
or did you kill him and then you were like wait we need him in the small hand like do you have
spk_0
readers regret and how did that come in uh it was always going to happen and candidly it I wasn't
spk_0
going to have him come back in the first book oh okay um so I was gonna stretch that out over
spk_0
another book initially I actually just found I was cleaning out some drawers and I found an
spk_0
outline from like 2016 and I was like wow I forgot all that was gonna happen um but it was it had
spk_0
initially it was initially going to be a lot longer time of separation but it once I started
spk_0
writing it just didn't make sense he was gone long enough she felt the she felt all the feelings
spk_0
and you know how to love the challenges to overcome that and then it was it was time for him to be back
spk_0
so um and I did not plan the last scene kind of happened organically so I didn't I didn't know until
spk_0
I was like already sort of planning it out that that's what was going to happen but then it just
spk_0
made perfect sense um so I initially was gonna have heard get off the boat herself but I
spk_0
I uh it was more satisfying I don't know yeah it was much more satisfying to wait happen um okay so
spk_0
finance is a huge part of this book like that is her career there there's a lot of things going on
spk_0
that it was I'm like so bad at numbers and finance so um it felt like getting an insight into like
spk_0
a world that specifically in New York is spoken about so often like when I like say like oh what
spk_0
is your friends husband doing like always in finance and no one questions it like that couldn't
spk_0
mean anything right so it was so interesting to like kind of peak behind the curtain in this um
spk_0
why rooted in finance like how what was it like writing all of that and then I'd love to talk about
spk_0
like there's like this illuminati of Wall Street and the fets are involved and like her career is
spk_0
just like wild in like a really fun way so I'd love to talk to you through all of that yeah so I'm
spk_0
a lawyer by training and my time working at Big Banks and with hedge funds was as a lawyer and doing
spk_0
discovery for litigation so I was really inside like we were in the system doing audits reading the
spk_0
emails like looking through reports and all of the things so when I say that this is this is fiction
spk_0
right so I spent a lot of time researching different plot twists of what could potentially happen
spk_0
in the global finance market I am I've worked in politics for decades and I've always been very
spk_0
um acutely aware of what's going on like in the geopolitical sense globally and always looked at like
spk_0
you know I always wanted to think like two steps ahead like what could happen and my editor
spk_0
when she finished the third book recently she came back to me and she's like how in the hell did
spk_0
you know all this was going to happen in the world and I'm like I didn't but I suspected and it made
spk_0
it much more believable now because of what's happening globally with like the rise of authoritarianism
spk_0
and you know like crypto is now legitimate and it became legitimate so quickly with no preparation
spk_0
and all of these things that we I don't know in 2015 or 2010 like I don't think we would have thought
spk_0
we would be here right and it all happened like so quickly so I don't want to say it's
spk_0
accurate of what finances like working in finances like like what I was doing was very different
spk_0
than like being someone you know making a deal or hearing pitches all the time as a VC or you know
spk_0
doing working as an iBanker so I wasn't doing any of that type of work but I was reading the emails
spk_0
of the people doing that kind of work so it was kind of like an inside look at what the job is like
spk_0
and then obviously you know with the with the back job of New York like have tons of friends who
spk_0
been in finance I did spend a lot of time like talking to everyone on my network like if I were going
spk_0
to do sort of a Ponzi scheme type insider trading scandal like what would it look like I had a
spk_0
connection to someone who was at the SEC so I had some conversations with him off the record and
spk_0
like some Corners Bay like coffee shop in DC that no one's ever been to before but like I was just
spk_0
like hey how would this really happen like if the SEC knew about this like would they ever like
spk_0
would there ever be a motivation to turn their their had the other way and I read you know the
spk_0
Stephen Cohen biographies when Stephen Cohen got in trouble for his insider trading so I was
spk_0
always fascinated by the world because I spent my career in a different industry for the most part
spk_0
and we were always criticized for being so outrageous and then I looked at finance and I'm like
spk_0
you know they're getting bailed out by the government and buying private jets yeah it is the
spk_0
audacity is just overwhelming and then you're reading the emails of the people doing these things
spk_0
and you're like wow I just can't imagine existing in the world and taking up this much space so easily
spk_0
so I wanted that to come through of like the audacity and just the I mean self confidence is one way
spk_0
to put it but just like the certainty that you deserve what you're going after I mean it's almost
spk_0
admirable that there is so much of that um but I wanted that to come through for the world building
spk_0
I'm not going to say that like every managing director of a hedge fund is like Celeste and Savin or
spk_0
is like Omar or whatever um but I thought it was a good backdrop to make it really outrageous so
spk_0
that you could get sucked into the character driven stuff by the um the glittery kind of industry
spk_0
as yeah it was so interesting it's almost as you're speaking like it is almost like wolf of all
spk_0
street just to stop the like audacity of men okay we talked to this a little bit earlier but
spk_0
location I mean my initial thought was in New York is a character in this book but really they
spk_0
travel so much in the locations are such a huge part of this story so how did you decide
spk_0
where Celeste would go are these all places that you've been like talk us through that process
spk_0
I think I've been nearly everywhere in all three books except for Riyadh I've not been to Saudi Arabia
spk_0
okay um I may go someday I'd you can't drag wine there so I don't know it might be a while but um
spk_0
but I wanted to so I grew up in the Midwest I didn't grow up traveling and I I really experienced
spk_0
the world through books I had a library card when I was a little girl I was allowed to get 21
spk_0
books for every two weeks and I read all 21 of them and they were usually done before the end of
spk_0
the two weeks and I was like mom could we go back to the library and she's like are you kidding me like
spk_0
how are you doing with this so I was always consuming like I wanted to experience the whole world
spk_0
and I did it through books and I know that there so I know that there are so many people in this world
spk_0
that just cannot travel the way I can um to as many places and as often and I wanted to bring
spk_0
that escapism to them so that they could really you know kind of think about what it smells like to be
spk_0
in a market in Marrakesh which is in the third book um in a soup in Marrakesh or you know
spk_0
what it's like to go on a safari what what the animals are like or you know what it's like to eat at
spk_0
a restaurant in New York that nobody can get into because we take these things for granted
spk_0
but I didn't grow up having access to all of this so I wanted to bring that to to everyone because
spk_0
I think that so much of the world can be shared you know culturally if we uh bear at through books
spk_0
so every time I mean I think once I started traveling avidly I think that
spk_0
I always knew I would put whatever location I was going to in the book so it was always like oh I'll
spk_0
see where this fits in um you know based on the feeling I get when I'm there yeah oh I love that so
spk_0
much I was the same way like I always I felt like I saw I was trying to see the world through books
spk_0
and I didn't I didn't go I went to Canada but like I didn't go and it really the country tells
spk_0
25 and then now I like plan trips based off of things that I learn in books and right now I'm
spk_0
going away in a few weeks and I'm like scavenging looking for books to take place in those places so
spk_0
I can read them there and she's like I love the intersection of like books and seeing everything
spk_0
yeah do you watch the summer I turned pretty yeah so when belly like it's super-res and she's like
spk_0
fish out of a water I was kind of making fun of her and then I was like wait when I was 18 or
spk_0
whatever age she was I hadn't been I wouldn't have known what to do either but it's like now I've
spk_0
traveled so much I'm like oh my gosh to a girl like you know but this is the New Yorker and me the
spk_0
fact that she left her backpack oh my gosh I was like please please stop please my god stop
spk_0
you're asking for it to be like it like gosh just from like being in a big city like I never even
spk_0
when I grew up on Long Island and they used to be like don't leave anything in your cars like
spk_0
yeah and it was in a nice neighborhood like it's just like in New York you don't leave your things
spk_0
unattended anywhere and your passport you would care more about your passport than that ring I just
spk_0
see what's your passport in there I think it was and she just now she wasn't even thinking about
spk_0
I was just so I was like do you know how hard it is to get a replacement passport when you're
spk_0
traveling and you don't have any plan probably don't even have a cell phone plan to be international
spk_0
like I was like where was your big sister you know but I did think it was I mean probably
spk_0
unrealistic but the fact that she wouldn't attract it down because I would have just been like
spk_0
it's lost yeah I would have let that ring go that tiny little ring that you need like a magnifying glass
spk_0
to look at I would have been like at the embassy like I need your passport like yeah the will
spk_0
exactly exactly like I'm gonna walk through a dark alley and go into a nightclub by myself I was like
spk_0
I know you are so blessedfully naive just I know this ends up well for you you know and then
spk_0
it's like worries me because I my cousins or teenagers also watch it and we like talk about it
spk_0
and I'm like they're smart girls and they're from New York but I'm like I hope they don't like
spk_0
don't write about yeah so many ways but in Paris do not behave like don't walk in a dark alley to
spk_0
follow an air tag yeah so what can we expect from the rest of the series there are three out right
spk_0
now the third one just came out you've hinted that there could be more to come where without spoiling
spk_0
the rest of it where do we see Celeste go so you will see even more global jet setting that
spk_0
designer where the danger as we continue on her path to find really an escape from this past
spk_0
that keeps chasing her right I think the main standout for readers moving forward will be her evolution so
spk_0
I don't want to you know I for I don't want to give anything away but I will say that
spk_0
the second book is more of an internal like it's sort of her internalized and that's that was
spk_0
intentional with the cover being her face I don't know if we've seen cover oh yeah all three covers
spk_0
are so good thank you yeah I love them I have amazing cover designers and so it was uh you know
spk_0
the second one was always meant to kind of ground the series and what was to come next and then
spk_0
the third one was um I mean in terms of what to expect it's a wild ride like giddy up so I have
spk_0
gotten you know reviews have been coming in and it's been it's so much fun as a thriller author
spk_0
to hear someone say like oh my god I see it up until 2 a.m I couldn't stop reading it because I as a
spk_0
reader do that like I started reading fourth wing after the three books were already out and I
spk_0
think a few days in my virus like I don't know if I ate or slept or shower like I was just like
spk_0
reading these books like devouring them so I love that it can bring that escapism to other people
spk_0
and such a pleasure like of being an author that you can you know if you if you do it while like
spk_0
people can have that like god I have to get to the end before I go to sleep kind of feeling yeah um
spk_0
okay so I always like to ask my guests what they're currently obsessed with this could be like
spk_0
anything you're reading watching listening I am currently I was holding off so long on fall
spk_0
fashion but today I actually did a big purchase and I'm putting my shopping this weekend so I'm
spk_0
currently obsessed with updating my wardrobe is there anything that you're reading watching just
spk_0
kind of like something that's taking over your mind so well we went in the summer I turned pretty
spk_0
okay I again I did not think I would get sucked into the show I always I'm a holdout you know I'm
spk_0
like oh let's take a kill I thought it was like two episodes three seasons later I'm like oh my
spk_0
god I can't eat breathe eat a breathe until the next episode because though um but I do like these
spk_0
series shows it is really fun to just have some time for yourself every week to kind of like
spk_0
completely like go the world like I'm trying to be more mindful like stop scrolling put my phone
spk_0
down like just enjoy the show take a bubble bath like turn your mind off and just like have some
spk_0
escapism um so I have been enjoying uh that show in particular and you know I watch Wednesday and a
spk_0
lot of the other shows that are new right now so that's been fun from a um being able to turn my
spk_0
brain off after editing we've re-edited the entire series while I was finishing the third book and
spk_0
the style guide changed the changes every eight years we re-edited the entire first and second
spk_0
books so like my brain was fried so I was like I just want other people's art and I can't look at
spk_0
words right now on a page because my eyes hurt so I've just been enjoying like some downtime of like
spk_0
you know watching shows and binging with friends and you know getting into like what do you think
spk_0
is gonna happen next you know like I watched we were liars that was such a fun yeah um surprising
spk_0
show so that's been a part of my summer the other thing that uh you know you mentioned fall
spk_0
fashion like I'm I'm totally into shifting to fall but I do really want to take some time away
spk_0
because this has been a really intense time period for me so I've been obsessed with finding the
spk_0
perfect week-long spa getaway so I've been looking like you know am I gonna do my workout am I gonna
spk_0
do this new place in Mexico am I gonna do like um uh the cat skills like I'm looking all over the world
spk_0
like no limits and I'm like I just want to go away for a week or two and just exist and I've never
spk_0
done a silent a silent retreat before and I'm like I might even be into that like wow I still need
spk_0
luxury I can't do the clamping stuff anymore too old and picky but um they're not so less
spk_0
approved for Rachel but I literally have a folder of like all of these like places that I'm like
spk_0
oh my god this was on the top list for Kandina this was on the top list for travel leisure and I'm like
spk_0
I'm going to one of these in the next few months so that is like more important to me than like
spk_0
anything else it's just like that escape of silence for a little while yeah it's important
spk_0
especially now with like scrolling and just the way that news breaks and if we're recording this
spk_0
or there's a massive news event happening and it's just like it's so important to like actually
spk_0
take time and like be analog and get away from it all absolutely and it's like I'm sure you're
spk_0
the same way but so much of my life now is social media driven with work I mean this is my job
spk_0
yeah and it's it's you know I'm walking my dog and I'm on the phone on my phone looking through
spk_0
stuff and I'm like I've used to be like this I know into it so I just want to like get everything
spk_0
scheduled ahead of time have everybody ready to delegate and like I'm like don't touch don't call
spk_0
me yeah when I'm back from this trip that's what I'm really excited about tonight I'm going to have
spk_0
I very rarely do this but I'm gonna like actually keep my phone in another room and then
spk_0
it's so nice yeah the gesture is up so the subway turned pretty and then only murders in the
spk_0
building came back and I'm like and I'm good like I'm gonna make sure those and then read my book
spk_0
and like not go on social media you know it really so a few years ago I'm an early bird so I
spk_0
love waking up early but I left my full-time like corporate world nine months ago or something and
spk_0
now I just stay up late like a kid like I don't I like waking up at 5 a.m. and like being in silence
spk_0
and meditating and now I'm waking up at like eight because I stayed up late reading the news
spk_0
and scrolling and all the things and I have started doing that again where I put my phone I'm like
spk_0
okay phone can stay in the living room I have my iPad you know I still have the alarm on but like
spk_0
yeah wake up meditate even if it's five minutes and then go see what else what happened you know
spk_0
like it's such an intentional way to start the day versus what I've been doing the past few months
spk_0
of like just gonna like search on my phone and then go start editing right at my computer and then
spk_0
two hours later we're like oh my gosh I haven't even eaten breakfast like you're trying to have
spk_0
more of a more more ritualized life again so you should do it it's hard yeah so hard um that is a
spk_0
little bit of a segue though so when you are on social media where can everybody find you
spk_0
so I'm on Instagram and TikTok and I am launching a substack little Celeste approved so I think
spk_0
that'll be really fun for people who enjoy her um but all of the updates will be easily found
spk_0
on Instagram and TikTok and we're having fun with TikTok I'm new to that platform and I'm still
spk_0
trying to figure it out um it's funny coming from like the corporate world and like you're not
spk_0
supposed to wear makeup or like it's supposed to be like natural and not staged and I'm like I
spk_0
this is so foreign to how I had to show up at work my life so I'm like oh you want to see me like
spk_0
walk my dog okay that's interesting um so I'm you know it's all it's all play right it's just ways
spk_0
to connect with readers and to connect with people all across the world so uh can check me there
spk_0
I have um some events in New York over the next week I'll be in DC um I guess by the time they're
spk_0
listening to this um I'll probably have some events in New York in the fall um when I get back
spk_0
from my trip so maybe we can meet in 3D I can see what you bought I can see your new files
spk_0
all the time they're gonna need a bit amazing hopefully it's all us approved yes um well thank you
spk_0
so much for joining me this has been such a treat to get to deep dive treating secrets with you
spk_0
the three books are out now and then we will read the third one and be in suspense to see where
spk_0
so let's go next uh please make sure you're following us to join our pockets plot from you are
spk_0
listening on follow me I care what follow Rachel and yeah that's our show thank you so much