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Queering the Museum

In this episode of Small Town Queer, hosts Erica Taylor and Emma Shield engage with community historian Tee Cozy to discuss the importance of queering museums, galleries, libraries, and archives. They...

Queering the Museum
Queering the Museum
Culture • 0:00 / 0:00

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spk_0 You are listening to the Small Town Queer Podcast produced by Tweed Regional Museum in Northern
spk_0 New South Wales, Australia.
spk_0 Follow us as we uncover and explore Tweed's rich queer history from the early 1900s to
spk_0 the present.
spk_0 The museum has collaborated with LGBTQIA plus community members to collect, share and
spk_0 preserve the histories of Tweed's many and varied queer voices.
spk_0 We wish to recognise the generations of local Aboriginal people of the Bungalung Nation
spk_0 who are the traditional owners and custodians of the land on which we are recording this
spk_0 podcast today.
spk_0 I'm Erica Taylor and I'm a curator at Small Town Queer and I'm here today at Wee
spk_0 EW.
spk_0 Emma Shield and I am a project coordinator for Small Town Queer.
spk_0 And today on the podcast we're talking to Tee Cozy, community historian about queering
spk_0 museums, galleries, libraries and archives.
spk_0 I think we'll cover them all.
spk_0 The glamour sector.
spk_0 The glamour sector.
spk_0 We're lucky to have such a good acronym aren't we?
spk_0 I thought we'd start by talking about how a Small Town Queer came about.
spk_0 It was probably 18 months ago.
spk_0 The museum got questioned as to what it held in its collection that told LGBTQIA plus
spk_0 people of stories in the Tweed and it was very, very little, almost nothing.
spk_0 I think we hold one oral history and one photograph of a self-identified gay man.
spk_0 And that was it and for a collection that's over 18,000 objects and over 50,000 photographs.
spk_0 It didn't represent those stories that we know are out there in the community.
spk_0 So off we went, we were lucky enough to get government funding from Create New South Wales
spk_0 to help us with the project.
spk_0 And Emma Shield came on board as co-curator and we started our journey.
spk_0 We did and part of that journey very early on was meeting Tee Cozy.
spk_0 And I don't know if you recall how this came about but you actually contacted me because
spk_0 I had seen an Australian gay and lesbian archive post on Facebook about the Northern Rivers Men's Network.
spk_0 I think it was a magazine or a newsletter.
spk_0 So I reached out to Nick Henderson, the archivist of Algarh, who put me in contact with you.
spk_0 And then I got this wonderful email from you and all the work that you've already been doing in this space,
spk_0 which is really not a surprise.
spk_0 We actually touched upon this in a podcast.
spk_0 I just recorded with Tee Cozy about how the community has already been working in this space
spk_0 to collect their stories in their voice.
spk_0 Yeah, I think that's been, you know, as we know, historically,
spk_0 people have been not represented in museums and collecting institutions.
spk_0 So it has been left to the community to collect their industry, which you've done,
spk_0 you know, in and just taking such a big role, such an important role,
spk_0 particularly in this small town collecting all of that history around these more
spk_0 of the Northern Rivers generally.
spk_0 So yes, it was a great place to start.
spk_0 I think finding you.
spk_0 We're very lucky to meet you.
spk_0 Well, it was very exciting for me too.
spk_0 I had coincidentally before I had connection with the good folk of the Tweed Regional Museum.
spk_0 There's annual homosexual history conference every year in a different capital city.
spk_0 And I'd been going for the last 10 years and presenting papers and particularly about the work
spk_0 I've been doing in Northern Rivers and Queer History.
spk_0 And there was a particular person, Claire, who's a librarian in Melbourne,
spk_0 who is only Australian, there's been Gay Archives Committee.
spk_0 She said, look, I'm putting together a panel at the next conference in Melbourne
spk_0 that's called glamorizing the glam sector.
spk_0 So looking at how queer is the girl, is libraries archives and museum sector.
spk_0 So I said, oh, okay, I want to be a research.
spk_0 So I ran around to the local historical societies, the libraries, the galleries.
spk_0 I didn't come to the Tweed Regional Museum, actually.
spk_0 But anyway, I interviewed people at those various places to find out,
spk_0 were they aware that there was a queer community, had they engaged with the community,
spk_0 had they told their stories or invited their artists to be involved.
spk_0 And the story mostly was, if somebody personally in one of those organizations had a connection
spk_0 with the queer community, they may have been involved, but mostly they're not.
spk_0 And I mean, the example of one of the local historical societies,
spk_0 which mostly has information about the pioneer story really.
spk_0 So I went up there, chatted to the woman on duty that had some connection
spk_0 with the queer community through friends.
spk_0 And she said to me, but we don't have anything in our collection about your people.
spk_0 And I mean, that word your people is an interesting sort of term.
spk_0 But she said, just recently, one of our members' volunteers is Gay
spk_0 and he's been putting together a file on the Tropical Fruit,
spk_0 which is a major queer organisation in the Northern Rivers, about what they're up to.
spk_0 So they began, they just began.
spk_0 But there was no policy, no awareness.
spk_0 No.
spk_0 And I think when I correct me with my wrong,
spk_0 when you first did connect with us physically and you came here,
spk_0 you did question particularly as we're funded by Council,
spk_0 about what policies existed in Council and in the museum,
spk_0 as one of the very first things.
spk_0 Yeah, I think I remember looking on the website, actually after I talked to him,
spk_0 saying, did the Council in general have a diversity inclusion policy
spk_0 and did the museum particularly,
spk_0 or when I looked at the regional art gallery as well,
spk_0 and I couldn't find anything really.
spk_0 No, I think you have to question, even in those policies,
spk_0 exist.
spk_0 I mean, policies are only worth, you know, if they're followed and used and embraced.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 And that's part of the project we went on to.
spk_0 I mean, the whole project wasn't just about collecting the history of the area.
spk_0 Or acquiring objects.
spk_0 No.
spk_0 No, or acquiring new things for the collection.
spk_0 It was about really critically looking at the museum and our practices
spk_0 and our collection systems and our policies and making sure
spk_0 that everything was inclusive.
spk_0 And we were representing the diverse people, you know, the history that was here.
spk_0 So I just thought it was a really, it was the first thing you picked up on.
spk_0 And we went on to really embrace that, even just those questions,
spk_0 to really look and reflect about all of those things in our own organisation.
spk_0 I mean, if we propose to have to represent the diversity and showcase the diversity
spk_0 with an our collection and really critique it, what kind of organisation are we?
spk_0 You know, are we an inclusive workspace?
spk_0 Are we well aware of the best practices to interpret and manage a collection
spk_0 that includes queer stories and objects?
spk_0 And what is our relationship like with the local community?
spk_0 I think we valued all of those objectives as an important part of this project.
spk_0 So beginning to build up a relationship.
spk_0 Absolutely.
spk_0 And I think that building trust is already part of the curation process.
spk_0 Erica, but I think it's particularly important when you're dealing with groups
spk_0 that are marginalised or have been traditionally excluded.
spk_0 And it's tricky, as you've said before, because you don't, you know,
spk_0 you may have awareness of who's in the LGBTI community in the area,
spk_0 but until they come to you, you can't really approach them directly
spk_0 unless you have a personal contact.
spk_0 And say, okay, I know you're a LGBTIQ.
spk_0 We'd love to hear your stories.
spk_0 So that makes it quite a tricky thing.
spk_0 But, you know, what you've done here is create an exhibition online,
spk_0 and the public see around it.
spk_0 So hopefully that will draw people in.
spk_0 And we really couldn't have done that without the collaboration of people like yourself.
spk_0 And the queer community trusting us, giving us great advice,
spk_0 sharing their networks as well as their stories and some of their objects with us.
spk_0 And that's really how word got out about this project.
spk_0 Because it was very important to ask that the people that would participate were open
spk_0 with their identity.
spk_0 We didn't want to put anyone at risk or compromise anyone's safety.
spk_0 And we also really wanted to showcase the great achievement and leadership
spk_0 that already exists within this very diverse community of ours.
spk_0 And I think we found, especially with Emma's research on the historical themes
spk_0 and the long form articles that are on the website.
spk_0 Half of that, you never would have found without these relationships
spk_0 that we built, that you built Emma and that led you down the rabbit hole
spk_0 to further information and further leaves to put all the research together.
spk_0 I don't think it could have been done without that foundation of building the relationship.
spk_0 I don't think it might have just been someone saying to us,
spk_0 oh we heard there was this restaurant down the road that used to have a gay friendly night once a month
spk_0 and then Ian sent me some articles from Campaign Magazine.
spk_0 And then from there I was able to through our local networks say,
spk_0 do you know this person, yep this person used to work there and then through them we actually
spk_0 made contact with the owners and heard the real story behind that particular venue or that event,
spk_0 the human face, the human story.
spk_0 To the story was out there, but it was not being shared in some way.
spk_0 Really centering the voices of the queer community.
spk_0 They were telling us their stories.
spk_0 We weren't necessarily just reading articles and trying to put the pieces together.
spk_0 In some cases we had to do that because it was last century or the century before,
spk_0 but in most cases we were able to thankfully through the queer community network find the people
spk_0 who mostly were very willing to tell their stories.
spk_0 And I remember coming first to visit you and I noticed a booklet called Caravans and Commune
spk_0 which was an exhibition that you had some years back and I thought myself well that's great,
spk_0 you know this museum has embraced alternative hippie culture that is part of this region.
spk_0 But there's one story missing there and that's about quite a unique and unusual hippie alternative
spk_0 counter culture organisation which was the Mandala which in the tweed and quite a unique
spk_0 story around the gay commune. There wasn't in there at all.
spk_0 And the very charismatic owner of that kind of idea was very public person and did a lot of
spk_0 outreach into the community as a director and producer. You got follies with part of his work
spk_0 theatre stuff that he did. It was a shame that story was instead of that publication but it goes
spk_0 to show that things are missed and it's all dependent on the bias of the museum professional
spk_0 putting it together and resources too. It was very important that we had funding for this project
spk_0 because there's lots of projects that need to be done but we do need government support funding.
spk_0 One of the best reference books we found and we read was Queering the Museum by
spk_0 Nikki Sullivan and Craig Middleton which was only put out last year 2019. It's called Queering the
spk_0 Museum and it's about projects they have done and the idea of Queering the Museum or looking at
spk_0 these emcee galleries for a Queer lens. But I mean there's so much more. It also brought in my
spk_0 curatorial practice to all kinds of lenses in the work we do. But from that we brought in the project
spk_0 not just to looking about the history and finding it and writing the research. But also
spk_0 performing what's termed as Queering the Museum which is this idea that we're looking at our
spk_0 practices and our collections. And as I said earlier we did we looked, we did survey of the collection
spk_0 using all kinds of search terms and things and we didn't find and it just about anything.
spk_0 But yet we know this queer story is there because statistics say some of those people in the 50,000
spk_0 photographs are going to be LGBT. And so we put on what's turned like a Queer lens to look at our
spk_0 collection again but through a Queer lens. Go to this more time Queer website. Erick has written
spk_0 this fantastic article about this whole process. So Emma and I I trolled the collection once again.
spk_0 And we chose these certain photographs and objects that we thought if they had no provenance
spk_0 why can't they tell a queer story as well as they have told a heterosexual story. And two of those
spk_0 photographs are from the 1940s. I think it's post-war. One of them is a woman in trousers. They're
spk_0 black and white photographs. A woman in trousers holding a heavy horse's lead and the other one is a
spk_0 juxty caravan. Very attractive juxty caravan. And on the back of the photographs is a reason
spk_0 that this woman and another woman had traveled from Sydney by themselves in the caravan and
spk_0 stopped in tweed heads to seek some medical attention for the horse. And they liked it so much
spk_0 they stayed for five years. And I think it's easy to assume they were friends. But really they're just
spk_0 they were you know there's just as much chance they were together as a couple a romantic couple
spk_0 living here all those years ago. And those photographs are evidence of that with that that
spk_0 queer lens. And I mean we found lots of other really great photographs that are up on the website.
spk_0 There's a lot that show men and women dressing in their opposite gender. You know it could be
spk_0 seen as a dress up event or having a fun party and having a laugh. But with a queer lens does it
spk_0 tell a different story? Is it a is it gender play? Is it individuals experimenting with their gender?
spk_0 I think it's also an important part of that clear taking that queer lens is to extend that
spk_0 to members of the queer community. So one of Eric's great ideas was to invite members of the queer
spk_0 community that we've been collaborating with on this project to have a look at some of the objects
spk_0 that we've selected and interpret those objects or make a comment. And Tikozi we asked you to do that.
spk_0 I think it was for the same photo that Eric has just described.
spk_0 That's right. I mean you asked me to have a look at your objects that you picked out that stood
spk_0 out with your queer lens. And you know that one of the two women in the caravan really jumped out.
spk_0 And as you said, who knows there's a lot of the pressure to not name somebody as queer because
spk_0 that could be dangerous. It could upset somebody. It could be seen as a slur even.
spk_0 Whereas from my perspective as a queer man as a gay man, I think wow isn't that amazing.
spk_0 It's possibly a couple of lesbians wandering around outside together in a relationship
spk_0 and being quite public about it. And so there we are. We're not invisible. There's a little bit of our
spk_0 story. I don't see it as a slur. I just see it as another expression and sexuality and gender identity.
spk_0 And you don't even necessarily have to put a label on it. I mean it's a queering is very much a
spk_0 process as opposed to going around and stamping objects or something. Queer confirmed.
spk_0 So and you know that photo when we interviewed a local lesbian couple before Erica had
spk_0 even finished showing the story they were like oh yeah they're dogs. Of course. Of course they are.
spk_0 That's their immediate assumption. But within a lot of institutions there's this heteronolative
spk_0 presumption. The centering of the heteronolative story first and sometimes only stopping there.
spk_0 So there's another object that we queered which was a siph which is an agricultural tool used
spk_0 to chop the heads off weeds and things like that and a lot of people would be familiar with that
spk_0 as the object of the Grim Reaper holds. And certainly when I looked at that the image or saw
spk_0 those sites within our collection I immediately thought of the Grim Reaper in the AIDS ads,
spk_0 the Australian government aids ads in early 80s, mid 80s and what a terrifying image that was now
spk_0 for a lot of people they might look at that and just say oh yeah that's just an agricultural tool
spk_0 or but maybe for a lot of other people it immediately takes them to that. I see represents death
spk_0 and AIDS and scary virus at the time and a very scary ad campaign. These are two really good examples
spk_0 for people who might not be familiar with the process of querying our museum or a collection or a
spk_0 library is to seek feedback from the community invite the community to also evaluate and critique
spk_0 the objects and stories but yeah re-imagine those those events and those stories. And particularly
spk_0 museums were so three-dimensional focus because we've got showcases and we need objects and
spk_0 how can we do a show on LGBT, QIA people we have nothing you know that we can find but we can very
spk_0 easily display a site like that which is can be found in every regional museum. And you can tell
spk_0 that that story of the AIDS campaign and use that as a visual aid and that's a particularly great
spk_0 one of just being able to re-look at your collection to reinterpret objects in a different way
spk_0 to tell these stories where you might not have anything to help you do that you know at the beginning.
spk_0 The idea is not limited to this is an object that was once owned by someone who identifies as
spk_0 LGBTQI pass or you know that it could be an object that was owned by anybody but the symbolism
spk_0 yep or the the history attached to maybe that object being used in a different context is is
spk_0 also important to tell. So it's probably a good time to well to talk about so the one thing you
spk_0 want to do was was start collecting focus collecting on the new objects that can help tell these
spk_0 stories. So and already we've had some wonderful donations to the museum. We had a great the first
spk_0 novel from local author Jordan Clayton Lewis which Black Horse Park which came out in 2019 and he
spk_0 donated a copy of that which will go into our collection. We've had vinyl records from queer
spk_0 performers in the tweed. Great t-shirts that were worn during the marriage equality campaign
spk_0 we've just had wonderful pink taffeta sequined dress donated by Mitchell Hull his local drag queen
spk_0 and so we're really saying to build the collection now um you know and we will ongoing
spk_0 and that's been a really great part of project to watch like the collection grow in that direction as
spk_0 well. If anyone's are sitting and they do have some objects they think might be great. Please
spk_0 can touch and we're also interested in people's stories as well too. We within the Small Tank
spk_0 Clear website there are a lot of people's individual stories some wonderful people that have
spk_0 contributed stories and objects to the collection but we're also want to continue this project it
spk_0 really is just the start of actively seeking stories and histories of LGBTQIA plus people. So there
spk_0 is a link on our website where you can actually upload your story and image which will go into the
spk_0 collection archive alternatively you can contact us through the through the museum's website.
spk_0 And can you do that tell that story anonymously if you choose? You can you can um we
spk_0 we're in the case of going through the website you do have to give a name but if people are concerned
spk_0 about their safety or being public they can contact myself or Erica and we can we can talk to them.
spk_0 It is difficult though we do prefer to people um talk about themselves and
spk_0 what well I mean this is a good question Erica why is it important that when people contribute
spk_0 to a museum with their story or or their objects why is it important to be mindful that you do
spk_0 have a public profile? Yes I guess we do have one. You know we're a public institution so our
spk_0 collections and our archives are available for anyone to view and to use we clicked on
spk_0 behalf of the community of the tweed and so those stories and objects should be able to be viewed
spk_0 and read by anyone. I mean it doesn't it doesn't we won't reject a story. No and we wouldn't
spk_0 never ask someone. No we never ask a lot. Yep and there might be important stories that do need
spk_0 the protection of anonymity um but yeah it adds to what we call provenance and authenticity of
spk_0 the story they're trying to tell so it's a grey kind of area but and then sort of highlights the
spk_0 issue of the fact that queer stories have been invisible so long there are still people who don't
spk_0 feel comfortable to tell their stories and out themselves at the moment and that's where all
spk_0 histories are really valuable because people can do an oral history and say look we want some
spk_0 gone and that's available to anybody but of course it's not available now. Yeah we do have oral
spk_0 histories that are embargoed that tool or date or a date after death that's always an option
spk_0 and it does also talk you know collecting all these the objects and stories we did have to have
spk_0 a critical look at what systems we use to collect and catalog all of this information. Yeah it must
spk_0 be a new thing in a way I mean are they cataloged categories that had cover the queer stories.
spk_0 Yeah well I mean looking at our database system which is one that's used worldwide it's a very big
spk_0 one there's no there's no possible way to report a person's pronoun which is obviously a problem
spk_0 or sexual orientation which you know you traditionally might not record someone's sexual orientation
spk_0 but when it becomes part of the significance of why you are acquiring something you need to have
spk_0 the option to do that so you know if your data collection methods aren't even a safe place to
spk_0 collect someone's data then you've got a problem so we're currently working through changing that
spk_0 and giving those options within the collection management system which is quite a huge thing to do
spk_0 and the ones that's done will be available to museums worldwide who use the same system.
spk_0 And we've we've changed a few other little controls in our system that we could
spk_0 that allow us to you know record someone's gender beyond binary
spk_0 and so we looked at all those things and changed what we could and put in steps in place to
spk_0 to change the rest of it. We've also created a special classification
spk_0 called a queer collection and so objects acquired can be tagged with that so it makes them
spk_0 more findable way future researchers which is really really happy and then also overall we're
spk_0 putting in steps to change our whole collection policy to really focus on the historic things and
spk_0 contemporary things that intersect with LGBT queer people and stories well as well as a whole
spk_0 um spectrum of other kind of minority and traditional pressed groups of people um and it's not
spk_0 easy to change a collection policy it has to go all the way up to accounts or meeting and be ratified
spk_0 by council and we'll get that done early next year so that's that's been really good as well
spk_0 and then I think all of that you know this is all part of clearing the museum and it's even to take
spk_0 a look at our forms the museums forms and surveys I mean as you know you both know it's just that
spk_0 simple thing is someone able to identify themselves how they would like to one on your general day
spk_0 paperwork right when is it relevant when is it not relevant is it even relevant not everyone
spk_0 is comfortable with the word queer gender and sexuality don't always intersect so it is a
spk_0 reimagining that needs to happen a lot of different levels of public institutions and government
spk_0 a lot of it is beyond the scope of this project but I think by us re- and critiquing our internal
spk_0 systems within the museum and revisiting the collection management processes and the policies
spk_0 well I feel like we've set uh council on somewhat of a path they're definitely interested because
spk_0 they've had to read yeah about the exhibition they've had to read about the the what the new
spk_0 collection policy in order to ratify it and that's involved introducing volunteers and co-workers
spk_0 to new language terminology I mean there must be a period of practice that don't even give an
spk_0 option for gender and male and female for ourselves we also had to unlearn a lot of things there's
spk_0 a lot of education involved which is why the queer in the museum is a great book to refer to
spk_0 and we were fortunate enough to have training provided by ACON so all the staff undertook awareness
spk_0 training which is a wonderful program I'd recommend to our volunteers as well we can have volunteers
spk_0 we know there are people in management council that are also looking to potentially take that
spk_0 training as well so that's training about LVGTI community that's right that's right it's it's
spk_0 awareness training so it does it introduces you to individual people's stories they're you know
spk_0 the different categories of identification um even just basic common sense and courtesy when
spk_0 the asian with people and describing them in documents and that's what I think I mean is any other
spk_0 small museums of listening to this podcast like there's such a host of simple basic nits that aren't
spk_0 that hard to do um you know the forms and surveys and language are one acon trainings so affordable
spk_0 and online accessible to everyone and we also did the acon welcome here project which is a simple
spk_0 online form and then the acon will provide you with visuals because for your building that says
spk_0 everyone's welcome here because we know from our training that it can be something that simple
spk_0 as a rainbow sticker that can make it would you be tear people feel welcome in a place
spk_0 but that back to the you know council does have a um access and diversity
spk_0 policy but like how these projects intersects this kind of says to council hey let's just not have
spk_0 a policy let's actually do seven diverse and do projects that are and so hopefully that's what
spk_0 they take from them I think I hope so I mean this project we've worked I mean in you're one of our
spk_0 main collaborators but there's somewhere between 25 and 30 people from the LGBTQI community that
spk_0 have worked with us on this project everything from providing us feedback about their impression
spk_0 of the museum prior to being involved in the project to the experience of working with us to
spk_0 looking at our objects querying our collection and sharing their stories trusting us to be
spk_0 the carriage of their stories online but also to be handled and managed correctly and respectfully
spk_0 within the collection. At the Melbourne homosexual history conference a couple of years ago
spk_0 that was this forum where a number of people, myself a community historian and regional areas and
spk_0 people from capital city museums and state libraries and people from archives and they
spk_0 talked about how their institution or their organization or their space was querying itself was
spk_0 aware of how querying was was glamorising reviews that and glamorising itself to be much more
spk_0 inclusive and aware of their collection methods and their displays and their cataloging and
spk_0 everything to help them become more in touch with the stories and the lives of LGBTQ people.
spk_0 So it was a very interesting forum really and there was a lot of positive stories and
spk_0 lots and lots of organisations that I remember seemed to be on that path whether it was the
spk_0 immigration museum in satellite or the state of the Melbourne city library for instance having
spk_0 exhibitions about catarbonation and in terms of the area I mean I checked some of the organisations
spk_0 and galleries and spaces in the Northern Rivers and and and they list and found that there were
spk_0 a number of exhibitions and activities such as me putting on an exhibition at the Southern Cross
spk_0 Library there and etc and there was more where they actually had I realised when I talked to them
spk_0 they had already had two exhibitions one featured a famous local drag queen more both and they had
spk_0 also done another exhibition about an artist who was not specifically just queer but that was part
spk_0 of the story which may have not been recognised in the past that's right that's right they
spk_0 don't win talking to them they didn't really have a policy to make sure that they included
spk_0 a diverse stories in their exhibition space but in fact they have sort of helped them in a way to
spk_0 make it more a project in the future and I guess a lot of the representatives of those institutions
spk_0 must have been listening at that glamourising presentation of forum because it seems quite a
spk_0 pivotal moment because now we're seeing a lot of Australian both city and regional public and
spk_0 cultural institutions doing queer things queer representative exhibitions are all history projects
spk_0 so they're like yeah I mean I'm aware that for instance the I think I'm not sure if it's a gallery
spk_0 or museum or both in Wagawa they did an exhibition a couple of years ago on that queer
spk_0 museum I think that was a museum I mean a reverend
spk_0 yeah so I just read recently that the West Shown Museum in Perth
spk_0 has just announced that they have a full project to queer themselves and to offer more information
spk_0 and more stories and engage more with the LGBTIQ community
spk_0 and that's I think a really key word is engage is to not just take the stories and package them
spk_0 and display them you really have to include the community and have the community's voices very much
spk_0 in the centre and heard as part of that exhibition otherwise you can very much run the risk of
spk_0 ignoring an important part of someone's life or their identity and I think that's where it's you
spk_0 the small in our small town we are like regional places and museums we have such a different
spk_0 relationship with our local community like it's more intimate people can walk through our door
spk_0 and we see them whereas in a big you know I've worked in big national museums where you know
spk_0 see the public as a curator you might go years without seeing any member of the public at all so
spk_0 that's what we really tried to dig into an our project was the small town difference
spk_0 and it's digital too which I think is innovative probably came at the right time given that we are
spk_0 going through COVID but it also meant that we got quite immediate feedback from the community
spk_0 which I was very much sweating about I also want to be honest because I thought if we don't get
spk_0 that you know I talked about the community as this model is but really if if people with
spk_0 and important organisations within the LGBTQI community don't receive the exhibition well I was
spk_0 very worried about the feedback has been really positive because I would hope it's a project of
spk_0 the community about the community but also of the community yeah with the community and it also
spk_0 being online can reach a much broader audience than just a bit more and a lot of the people that
spk_0 have given me feedback I've also said things like I thought I was really the only lesbian or I was
spk_0 the only gay in the village they really did say that to me and repeat that that to me and was really
spk_0 happy to know that there was a history but also that there is a lot of people within the community
spk_0 doing great things trying to organise social activities as well as advocate and that less sort of
spk_0 not feeling so isolated which is obviously a thing that always come off in a small town or regional
spk_0 themed exhibition so that's been great for you back to here that people are proud of where they
spk_0 come from or where they've chosen to live or they have a greater sense of pride but also maybe
spk_0 feel a little less isolated than they might have and it's been great being you know particularly
spk_0 digital making it's made us so easy to pivot and react to feedback I mean I know on the first
spk_0 day or so someone in the community noticed something with said that wasn't quite correct and
spk_0 we're able to just with you know we're listening it just really really should we should be really
spk_0 transparent and say what that was so in the about section of our website we sort of state the
spk_0 objectives and one of them is to recognise self-determined identities genders respect that use that
spk_0 and then we go on to say by using preferred pronouns and a wonderful member of the community contacted
spk_0 us immediately and said it's pronouns it's not a choice it's not preferred to say pronouns and
spk_0 said that and the nicest respectful polite way and we like of course of course but neither of us are
spk_0 trans not that that's an excuse but we you know we're ignorant of that and we fixed it immediately
spk_0 well I don't think we're ignorant I think we knew we knew that our problem was you know the telling
spk_0 thing is we've written that about section at the start of the project that's true it's a good point
spk_0 it's kind of like proof you know it was our learning journey that whole situation it was still
spk_0 there for the start but we you know evolved and grown by the end of it but it does show you know we
spk_0 we feel like we're so open to listening to feedback and criticism and and all of those things and
spk_0 you know I think all museums should be really it's not be afraid of it at all and it's fantastic
spk_0 that you can respond immediately absolutely and you know we do we should have we do have a very
spk_0 a great director Judy Keane who's who's been our director through the project and it has involved
spk_0 actually the whole team yeah in education and and learning and we've thrown things around the
spk_0 office and we've debated the smallest things for days and it's really been a whole team
spk_0 team effort and it was always about making it right and respectful we were never questioning
spk_0 people's identities or the authenticity of who that was met you know we're so beyond that now
spk_0 really it's about making sure that those categories those descriptors the language that we use
spk_0 is correct respectful all of those things but also something that hopefully the future 50 years
spk_0 down in the line people can be searching our archive and it's not going to be so hard to find
spk_0 these stories because as Erica pointed out within our collection it was very difficult
spk_0 and then to go outside of the collection and use things like Trove we had to use a lot of
spk_0 awful words that we used to explain or people were pathologised or legal language you know
spk_0 really awful yeah exactly and you would have to use those kind of words in order to find the
spk_0 stories of LGBTQI-placed people and that's our commitment I think to you know the whole
spk_0 tweed community going forward is to let's not this can't happen again we can't just do this
spk_0 project in a separate way it's it's really integrated museum collection and practices that's
spk_0 going to ensure it doesn't happen again well thank you so much Anne T. D'Aesie Gray for your
spk_0 contribution um we couldn't have done it without you you already created these spaces these groups
spk_0 you're making this history long before Erica and I even imagined this project uh you've already
spk_0 been doing the work as we've already pointed out in a podcast that we did with you earlier that I
spk_0 would encourage this is to go and listen to uh people like yourself within the community have already
spk_0 been collecting stories and creating archives and we're really grateful to you and the Australian
spk_0 ganglars being an archive for opening up your collections and archives and stories and lending us
spk_0 your expertise and sharing your networks with us because it's made for the richer of a project
spk_0 and you were there you saw a lot of these stories you were there you could do the story and we
spk_0 really appreciate involvement in this project and we um certainly look forward to continuing working
spk_0 with you and members of the community that have been involved in small town for you
spk_0 oh well nothing you know your project isn't hopefully an inspiration to other museums particularly
spk_0 regional museums that's what we were saying yeah we hope to just if we all just have this
spk_0 cool approach to queer history then the ideas that one day it all joins up and in the small
spk_0 regions and it's found
spk_0 thank you for listening to the Small Town Queer podcast to hear more Small Town Queer stories
spk_0 subscribe to the series and like share and review this episode and check out the Small Town Queer
spk_0 playlist on Spotify curated by museum staff and project participants for more information about
spk_0 Small Town Queer visit museum.queed.newsouthwhales.gov.au forward slash small hyphen town hyphen queer
spk_0 Tweed Regional Museum is supported by the New South Wales Government through create funding
spk_0 New South Wales this project would not have been possible without the support and collaboration of
spk_0 the people of Tweed who have generously shared their lived experiences archives and objects with
spk_0 this project.