Culture
Learning From Injury Setbacks to Run Smarter & Faster
In this episode of the Run to the Top podcast, hosts Corey Nackler and Coach Andy delve into the challenges and lessons learned from overcoming running injuries. They share personal experiences, insig...
Learning From Injury Setbacks to Run Smarter & Faster
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
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There's going to be periods where you're faced with the fears head on, but you just kind
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of have to let yourself experience them and find a way through and you're going to get
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to the other side and you're going to be like, wow, I just learned something about myself.
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Like, I'm fine.
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Everything's fine.
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One of the hardest things as a runner is going through injury and trying to find your
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way back to fitness.
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We're no exception at RC and I really felt that reflection on overcoming injury and adversity
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was the perfect last episode to tie together the many lessons we've brought on the show.
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That's right.
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After 13 amazing years on the Run to the Top podcast, we're coming to a close.
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This is super tough because I get so much joy sharing running content with you all.
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Having said that, I'm grateful I got to bring Coach Andy on the show for a really nice
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way to end off.
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Please give it a listen and I really hope that you get something from it.
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So with that, let's get into my conversation with Andy.
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Hello runners and welcome to the Run to the Top podcast where our goal is making you
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a better runner with each and every episode.
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I'm your show runner, Corey Nackler and I'm not an elite runner but together we'll
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explore new strategies and topics to take your running to the next level.
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This podcast is created and produced by the expert team of coaches at Runners Connect on Net
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where you can find the best running information on the internet as well as training plants to fit
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every runner and every budget.
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I feel like we've done endless different podcast episodes on how to avoid injuries or what to do
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if you're injured and yet.
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Somehow we haven't done a single one about what we've actually learned from it or own experiences.
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So, Andy, I'm really happy that you agreed to join me on this one.
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Yep and I'm coming off of, well, I guess it's been just about a year since I had surgery.
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So probably one of the most full blown injuries you could you could experience as a runner.
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So yeah, happy to chat about it.
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Yeah and remind me I know you gave me all these details but you want to tell us a little bit about
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what was the surgery and what that come back was like.
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Yeah, I had my labor and repaired and I also had a PRP injection into my high hamstring tendon
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at the same time so while I was under.
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And so that was all to fix.
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I had a partially torn high hamstring tendon and then I also had a
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laboral tear in my left hip so all in my left side.
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So it was and it had been sort of an ongoing thing.
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Most of my pain was in my hamstring not in my hip but the hip was inhibiting my glute function.
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So I was using over using the hamstring to run and so I was having a really hard time
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getting good power out of that side and then also I was having inconsistent pain
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it would come and go and that was getting frustrating.
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So that was why we decided to do the surgery.
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It was May 13th of last year and so the first month following that surgery you are not allowed to
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bend past 90 degrees.
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So you're limited you have a very limited range of motion from that perspective but you also
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do need to get the joint moving as soon as possible.
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So I was attracted to get back on the bike and two days after surgery actually I think they even
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said that when I went to PTO into the PT the day after surgery that I could go ahead and try
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that day if I wanted to and I was not as a little bit more cautious than that and I was a little
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scared to try. The first day was literally 10 minutes of just rocking back and forth my legs.
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I didn't do full rotations and I had to keep upright. So I was sitting on the bike with my crutches
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at my sides to hold myself upright and so that was an arm workout in itself and so I started
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just rocking back and forth just getting a little bit of movement in the hip and then
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progressed to doing full rotations very slowly with no resistance.
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So I was instructed not to have any resistance for a period of time and then it was just slowly
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building up the time on the bike and then slowly building up some resistance as I was cleared to do so
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and so that was kind of the first the first month was really just getting range of motion back in
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the hip and preventing scar tissue build up and then after that there's you the loosens up on some
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of those restrictions in terms of you know bending past 90 but then you're you're also coming
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off crutches so I was on crutches for two weeks with no weight bearing and then the two weeks
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following that so those last two weeks I think I was slowly transitioning off of just one crutch
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and so that was kind of the the process there. I saw a significant change in muscle
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mass fairly quickly in between sides so my left leg just looked like it had atrophied pretty
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quickly which I was shocked by but that does happen a lot faster than we expect when it's full no
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weight bearing on on one side of your body it's pretty wild and then you know I think it was about
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it took me about 12 I think I had the surgery May 13th and I started running at the end of August and
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it was one minute run intervals with four minute walk to start and then I slowly built that up it
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did two and three and then I went two three and two and then four and one and then transitioned towards
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more full running. I sometimes I think I was doing like three by mile with one minute walk between
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so stuff like that and a lot of it was and that was to help kind of build the strength in the hip
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flexor more so than anything else just getting that the hip flexor functioning a little bit better
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and that's something that I've noticed even post you know post a year out now that were
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that might I still need to work on my hip flexor strength on that side so I've a tendency to kind of
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want to side bend to my right and just sort of lean that way and not you know get full function
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on that side but now that it's healthy it's that's been the process of of reconfiguring
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how I was moving so a lot of my rehab and the the comeback was also was being restrained by
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how my mechanics were because we really wanted to break some of the movement patterns I developed
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you know probably dealing with this tear in my hip for you know I don't who knows how long
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years maybe and some people they endure it until a little bit more of a drastic injury so their
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return to run is a little bit different because maybe they haven't been running on a dysfunctional
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hip for years and so it makes it a little bit easier but for me I think I developed movement patterns
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that were not great and they were they were good for keeping me running but not good for
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you know making sure that I was moving optimally so I did break a lot of movement habit or patterns
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of movement that were not great for long-term health and training so yeah that's kind of a long-winded
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synopsis there yeah but I think that's such a common thing with running injuries is like it's easy
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to chalk it up to just like shit happens and on a certain level like that that's true you can't
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always control it but often I feel like there are often times rather like underlying either
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strength deficiencies or movement patterns that are correctable and you know in a weird way it's
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almost reassuring is a runner that like there are actually things you can do to prevent this from
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repeating as hard as it is as somebody who myself has had a lot of the same injuries repeat
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themselves again and again yeah and I I always think back to like okay how do I this happen in the
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first place and there's so many things with the hip especially especially because I mean for
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women even there's just like a we have a we have a different alignment in our hips than Mendo so
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whether that creates a predisposition to it I mean who knows but there's also other things that
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people can have with hip dysplasia things like that can make it more common but for me you know I
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played grew up playing other sports so I played soccer and you know I was dumb you have a dominant
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side so I have a dominant plant lag and a dominant leg for kicking and so you know I was
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playing in the left so I was pretty good with both but I was still dominant on the right and so my
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left leg was doing a lot of stabilization and I was using my my right leg for power and so
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you know whether that was maybe the time frame where I could have done cause this injury is it's
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hard to know or if it was just that you know some of the the movement patterns that I had from
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soccer that had forced me to run a certain way because maybe I was stronger on my left side and
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you know just little things like that can really influence the way we move and you know whether
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that created some wear and tear in the joint just how I was running you know after that is hard it's
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hard to say but I really saw the injury period and coming back from it as more of a let's step back
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and fix things that weren't working well already so that when we are back we aren't dealing with
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the same things over and over again or you know or how can I move more efficiently now that we have
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all these pieces back in a healthy state so and unlike a scale of wishing you had that time
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back and would have been a better runner if you're training through it too feeling like you're
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way stronger for having gone through it where do you find yourself on that spectrum I think when
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you know I think going into when the injury started I toured my hamstring all right I'm assuming
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I think I kind of like tors I remember the workout I did in prep for Indy monumental in 2022 so
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I was going to run the marathon there and I felt super fit going into that year I was having a
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really good year I'd built back up after having to take some time off and then then the two
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weeks to the taper I started having this pain and it it did kind of I remember the workout when it
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started it was I was on the track and I just sort of like felt it kind of set in but it wasn't
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super drastic that I thought I tore something but then the pain and couldn't it couldn't get to go
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way and in some ways before that like I think I had been neglecting my strength training a little
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bit for a period of time so that might have been one of the reasons why I then tore it but
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before that I wasn't having a lot of issues but I did have I did have a straight sacral stress
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fracture on my left side and I had been having a lot of issues my pelvis getting out of alignment
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for years and so you know I think that it maybe was just a matter of time but it's hard it's hard to
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first start in on that front but once the pain started I started kind of giving me issues from
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that point forward I was I I the pain went away for a period of time and I trained for another
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marathon in 2023 grandma's marathon in June and didn't have pain for most that training cycle but
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I felt like I just couldn't get I felt like I was I was working just as hard and training just
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as well but I was having trouble building fitness as easily like it just wasn't coming as as well
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and so I was just like yeah like these pieces just feel a lot harder this training cycle and no
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matter what I did it didn't feel like it was changing that and then I got to the taper and the pain
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gradually came back this time it wasn't set in and so I just kind of was like man this must have
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just stuck around and just nothing got any better and then we did the MRI we saw what was going on
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we tried PRP for the hamstring in the fall and actually did get again the pain went away
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race Philly marathon in 2023 off of 10 or 15 weeks of five think maybe four or five weeks
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so just like building back up some runs very slowly and then 10 weeks of trying to toss some workouts
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in get the long run distance up did three long runs in prep so not a whole lot of training for it
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was able to run without pain and then recovered built back up and then the same thing pain slowly
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started coming back again in February of 2024 and it just kind of felt like I was on this ruler coaster
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of like you you and I didn't feel you had control over it was the most frustrating thing because you
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would just sort of like pain would just slowly start coming back and I'd just be like like I'm doing
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literally everything you can I'm strength training I'm doing my PT I'm taking care of myself I'm
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listening to my body a lot better and it was just there was just no if it was with the pain
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was coming back is coming back and so then I was just like I there's I could continue to train through
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I could continue to train in this up and down cycle and just deal with it or I could go ahead and
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take a step back and let's just do the surgery and you know come back stronger hopefully and that
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was really what happened was that I was able to get rid of a lot of the pain and then also it
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helped me to correct those dysfunctional things that like the pelvis is still so my I still have
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to be careful with it because I still have that natural tendency and there's probably still some
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sort of imbalance on my right side that I need to address so my pelvis gets off a little bit but
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it's not been nearly as bad and I also the thing that I noticed the most looking at my form now
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versus before was that I can see that I'm actually getting my heel up in the back so if you like
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one of the things they look for if you do say like a form analysis is that we they want to see
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both heels like coming up in the back almost like they're coming towards your butt a little bit
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and we want to see the full face of your shoe and on my left side I wasn't getting that as easily
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and so it was it was definitely and also I was getting off my right like a lot faster and so that
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could have been that maybe my right like you know my right I've could have been getting off my right
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like faster because I wasn't wanting to stabilize much on my right left side who knows but I was
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definitely had an uneven gate you could see that locking of power on one side and so once that was
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the one thing that we noticed the most coming off of it now that I've looked at my stride a couple
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times is that it's a lot smoother it's a lot more balanced it looks even and so I could that from
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that perspective I can just tell like we're moving a lot better than we were before and I'm
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going to be able to be more efficient I can be trusting in that and you know if we can be more
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efficient we can be faster without trying harder so that's when when yeah I think a lot of runners
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in this situation it's so easy to just feel down on yourself and nothing but disappointment when
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you're going through injury especially one that's prolonged the way yours was but what did it take
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to kind of turn it into something productive or or find what you could actually do to correct it
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in this case it sounds like that being the gate on your left side yeah I think even just through
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the surgery in the injury itself I kind of just was like there's no the urgency is not to get back
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to running the urgency is to get back to being healthy not not the opposite which I think is the
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tendency that most runners have is I got to figure out how I can get back running as soon as possible
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and for me it was like no I want to get back to running optimally not just functionally like I
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want to be just like I can do it you know I could run but I really wanted to to be able to get back
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to the same level of fitness and training that I had been at previously and so with that underlying
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goal I wasn't going to rush the process because I wasn't you know I think the other thing that I
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was thinking was like I don't want to have to do this again I want this to be successful once I
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want that I want to go through this once and you know come out the other side being better than
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I went into it not sort of like I'm lagging now and having trouble correcting and and so like the
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things that I work with my PT on was I was working with a really good PT for for one thing that he
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was really focusing on neural firing patterns because that's a lot of what happens when we get
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injured is compensatory pain and a lot of times when we get injured from that type of stuff is
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because we've started to change our gate to avoid pain and that is that's problematic because then
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we start to do something that's maybe not efficient and it just becomes second nature to us and so
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we have to then intercept those movement patterns that we've created for ourselves which may just
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be our brain wired to tell our body to do this and this and in order that it's not supposed to do
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those things in but that has been the most efficient best way for our bodies to do that thing for
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so long that it's we had to break that cycle so I had to we were doing exercises where we were
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litter like just firing muscles in a specific order so turning on my core and then the glute and
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then the hamstring not hamstring before the glute which is a common tendency for a lot of runners that
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their glutes are not working they're they're probably overusing their hamstrings to make up for
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the glute for one reason or another and so yeah I had to I actually practice the the sequencing and
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then strengthen so it was definitely these like more mundane exercises that were feeling like you
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know I'm not getting a whole lot of them but they I was because it was just trying to like reinforce
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what we want to happen so that when I do go back to full weight bearing and running and
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and all these things that that becomes second nature and not the old way of moving and do you feel
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like you've broken that injury cycle it like did did something kind of click where you feel like
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you've solved it or is it more of a gradual process going through sort of the mystery solving of
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what it is and then correcting it it's been it's I feel like it kind of is like it's always a puzzle
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no we're not ever going to be 100% symmetrical you're going to have some movement patterns that
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are inefficient and that's just kind of the way that it is like you're just you just have to try
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to get it as equal as possible and I think when I the first this first training block back after
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my surgery was great like I was I think I built up really well and and felt good and felt even
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side to side and I mean I had a couple of hiccups here and there where things were like a little
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tight in places but no no big issues besides just being a little bit tight and sore in different places
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this since I took a training break at the end of April enough been building back up for a new season
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I have noticed that I've been having more pain on my right side and so I've been sort of trying
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to decode what's causing like what what am I doing how am I running now that's putting a little
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bit more emphasis on my right side and one thing is do I need to reinforce and in that kind of
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stuff so it's always sort of an ever evolving you know I'm trying to figure out what's the next
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what's the little thing that's at play but it's I think the the best thing you can do if you're
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because you're going to have aches and pains you're running every day you're doing an activity
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it's repetitive it's just not letting things get out of hand like you just you got to be able
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intercept them and and be really in tune with what your body's telling you and be able to adjust
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and react so like last week I did a race and it was definitely premature like I could tell my body
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wasn't ready to run a race super hard and after digging my training break it only I'm in a few months
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and I'm coming to the realization that I that build up phase for me is super important I don't like
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to start workouts too soon I think it's really important that I have a base of mileage before I
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really start to push my body too hard because I just feel better that way my two best training cycles
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were ones that I was coming back from something and I had to slowly progress and I had the most
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success from that so I realized that just kind of like looking back at this this build up that I've
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been on right now and and so that's been something I'm like okay I need to sort of think about how
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that looks but I've all I I used my last week I was sore after the race and I used the lever
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and ran on the treadmill and put it at like 75% body weight and if you don't know the lever is
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it's kind of like an altergy or an anti-gravity treadmill which it just helps to kind of take some
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weight off so that there's not full weight bearing and that was also a tool I used in my recovery
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cycle because it really helped me to take some of that take the weight off so that I so that I could
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actually move a move more you know the way I wanted to so that was a really because I was able to
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actually do the running mechanics without the full weight bearing and so that allowed me to really
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focus on good movement patterns and activating the right order and that was super helpful for me
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so that was I've been sort of tossing that in even when I'm not injured to kind of keep moving
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efficiently keep doing things feeling good and being in tune with my body in a way that's
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going to help me to continue to stay injury free yeah if I'm when you don't do these things it almost
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just feels like a game of of whack and roll trying to like put out different fires and I've almost come
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to not even love the word rehab because I I feel like it almost denotes that you're trying to like
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prevent one specific injury that's happened when really I feel like more runners should be doing
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general maintenance year round to make sure that you're not developing these deficiencies and again
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I'm guilty to I don't love the you know the the stretching before run and putting in your strength
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work and mobility but yeah it's definitely it's almost like you need to get fit to run instead of
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running being how you get fit because most runners already are very aeropically talented yeah
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I mean I've done tons of miles I don't I don't know that I never like I don't need to do tons more
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but like I've got that skill set already kind of banked but I know that I need to work on yeah
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like making sure that I'm moving efficiently when I'm tired and making sure I'm not doing certain
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things when I get fatigued or you know one one of the issues I've had in if this happened before
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surgery and also I've I had it in my race the most recently is getting cramping on my on my left
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no my right side so it's the side that I tend to want to sort of side bend towards and so I'd
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be kind of cognizant of that and then also using my diaphragm better because I I've notoriously
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just had issues with like breathing sometimes it's I think I when I'm more nervous for a race I have
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more diaphragmatic cramping issues and so those are things that I'm constantly kind of trying to
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be aware of but yeah it's it's definitely there's not like every time we fixate on a specific
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place that it hurts we don't we don't look at the big picture of like well what if it's coming
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from somewhere else like my hamstring was where the pain was but it was coming from my hip being
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dysfunctional so like you know I can't we can't just isolate one spot I got to be a little bit more
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specific to the like an entire area and really figure out where it's coming from like where's the
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where's the dysfunction and that's one of those things that I like having a PT that I see monthly
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like I just I need someone that I can check in with regularly
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make an assess and see how my hips are if they're getting out of alignment like what what do we
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need to do address that just keep that from happening that kind of stuff and that that's been
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really valuable to me is that being able to just check in with somebody and and ensure that things
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are still moving the redirection so is that you're take away in terms of not focusing on the one
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muscle group or there are other things you can do to make sure that if there are any deficiencies
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or sort of interactions between muscles that you're taking care of them
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yeah I would say yeah I mean I think it's always good to just have a full body perspective and then
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know where your weaknesses are so you know I even I think one of the things that this seems like
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so off off of like okay my hip was the injury my hamstring was the injury but my I noticed that
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like my foot sort of swings in funny when I run and and so my calves and then my calves tend to get
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tight and I pronate a little bit on my right side too much like my arch collapses and so I've been
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focusing recently more recently on doing more foot mechanic stuff um strengthening the arches
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or walking on my toes and trying to keep my big toe involvement like kind of making sure that I am
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pushing off through the big toe and paying attention and not swinging that foot around because I
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can't help but think that that's part of this whole this whole thing is that um you know why I keep
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getting all of alignment is it because my hip keeps wanting to kind of run the same way uh so yeah
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I think I just have been uh thinking more more big picture and and kind of like looking at
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starting from where the first put a contact is is my foot and then moving from the first point
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of contact up for to see kind of like and I also like to do my exercises in the mirror so I can
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see uh which I was doing some it was like a front foot elevated split squat and when I was with my
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what have I think my left leg forward I can't remember which leg it was I could see that I was like
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shifting my weight funny and I was like that's weird and again I was actually it was my right
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before and in my left arm out with a weight and without the weight I was not doing it as much
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as I was with the weight and I think it might have actually hit some of you do with my shoulder
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positioning which I've also sort of my left shoulder sort of swings out um which was a counterbalance
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because of my hip uh but it's still kind of a functional thing that it's not not ideal so it's like
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you you notice these little things here and there about how your body wants to shift when you're
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doing something and I was trying to fix it like I was looking in the mirror at it and I was like
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how do I get that back and on and I'm just like moving around and I'm like I can't even figure out
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why I'm doing that and then you sort of like take the weight away and you see it and you're like
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okay so it's something else it's not just you know it's not simple so it's good to just keep
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that well-rounded perspective of you know we still need to pay attention to our upper body mechanics
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we still need to pay attention to our lower body mechanics and our feet and our all those things
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and so keeping a consistent basis of strength for all areas that we use while running and thinking
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about them functionally because you know there's some strength exercises that just help us to
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strengthen the muscle groups that are involved in running uh but then you also need to incorporate
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that's what you're gonna need on race day is you know you want we want that we want your
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yeah i like to talk about some of the single leg exercises because i find that there's such a gap
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between what i am physically capable of doing weight wise and what i can actually do with good form
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and to me the second always takes priority because there's just no point in doing the exercise if
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i find that i'm like bending outward in weird ways um definitely split squats is one of them but
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i find two sometimes if i do like single leg dead lifts i'm like flying everywhere if the weight's too
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heavy and it's like that's probably not really accomplishing anything at that point.
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yeah 100 percent it's not like you like that was the thing that i like when i do core and stuff i
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know that i had i've had issues with like doming and my abdomen like i was doing i did core all the time
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in college and just like had no concept of like what proper form was and like i could do the exercises
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they looked fine but then i didn't know that i wasn't supposed to be like my core wasn't supposed to
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like doming out and so i had i was like okay that's not way that's supposed to move and now like when
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i do core i could do like a more basic option in order to strengthen it because i can't i can't do
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it without doming if you know so i like that i shouldn't be doing those exercises to the full extent
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even if i think i can do them because i was doing them inappropriately like they weren't they weren't
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correct and so it was like a bad functional movement pattern and so yeah exactly like i was doing
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those little split squats and like i probably should have taken the weight off of that side
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and just did them however like i was able to kind of like sit you or just drop the weight on that
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side and figure out kind of how do we need to maneuver this and then but then beyond that like okay
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but you know is it coming from if it is coming from my shoulder is there a stretch or something
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i should be incorporating even before i do the exercises like is it as simple as i need less weight
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or is it as is it like i need to like pay attention to sort of like something needs opened up
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better before i do the sexer size you know uh and so that's kind of the challenge is you know
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but that's why it's important to know if you're moving appropriately and if it's if it's good
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form because you know the other thing is that you do strength training values in good form and you're
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going to use different muscles and you're going to strengthen things that you're not trying to
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strengthen um and then that defeats the purpose so yeah there's limitations with flexibility too
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like you can strengthen the muscle all you want but if you don't have the range of motion it's
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only doing you so much good yeah and that's that i think that the really common place that people
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see that as in the squat um whether they have some ankle dorsiflexion range of motion or whether
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it's cut low back or something like that where they're rounding too much so they can't really get
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their pelvis uh they can't sit back well enough and so though there's lots of things like that
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that can kind of be issues there um and they can also be you know they can get injured from doing
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those types of things wrong deadlifts too i was doing deadlifts i did i was doing a deadlift a straight
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bar deadlift and i've never really done that before i always did it with a trap bar and um i didn't
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really i was like kind of like pulling up with my back not with my hamstrings and glutes appropriately
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and it was partially because i was kind of nervous about the bar hitting my knees and so i was
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kind of like doing this weird thing and i definitely threw my back out this was i think last year or
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i can i think it was last year and i was like oh okay that was dumb i need to be more cognizant of
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that but you know like things like that can be bad and um kettlebell swings is a big exercise
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so we can be really good for your glutes but it's like it can be really dangerous if you're not doing
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it correctly um because again that i'll put a lot of strain in the back so i'm curious your thoughts
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why it is that you find yourself with more injuries now then back in college when you were maybe
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less cognizant of all these things and i ask it partially selfishly because i feel like i'm
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doing a lot more of the right things now and still funding myself injured more so i don't know
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what's what's going on there i'm sure like ages of factor i in college i wasn't injured a ton but
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i did have i did have issues like i did have uh i just stress fracture my freshman year and my
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foot i think that was more related to uh i was having i didn't know i had celiac disease so i actually
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had two stress fractures before finding out that was what was causing that and so that was a problem
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for me and then i had some IT band issues which i had had in high school actually and i had sprained
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my ankle in high school and so you know some of those things might have been things that sort of
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you know becoming a little bit more present as i got into college so i had some add some things but
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i do think that the young when we're younger our body recovers better and so you can you can run
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too hard and your body will still recover a lot better and not put you at as high of an injury risk
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so there's definitely that that's that's a factor um but i think also just like how how resilient you
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are with your mechanics and your movement patterns and your strength and all those things are
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super important but then you know when you're when you're younger i do think you have a little bit
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you have a lot more leniency in terms of what you can get away with then when you're older and so
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when you're older it's very important that you don't run your workouts too hard because you're at
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higher risk for getting injured because you're running too hard uh you know you have to be a little bit
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more uh the recovery runs have to be easier because we we can't get away with that as much as we get
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older too we have to make sure that we're we're balancing all those things um
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hydration i think becomes a lot harder as you get older and if we're getting dehydrated you can
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put yourself at higher risk for muscle tears and things like that so it's it's hard to say
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because there's definitely runners who have never been injured and they've gotten older and they've
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just been haven't run into these issues and that's the ideal so it's it's hard to like really
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boil it down to a specific thing i'd say um i was relatively un-injured once i got past the IT
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band issues my i think that was that was my sophomore year spring of my sophomore year i was running
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into a little bit more of that but i mean i still i had a bulging desk in high school or college so
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i had things that i could kind of work through but uh there were still issues i just was able to
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train through them a lot easier or manage them a lot easier and i also had the other thing that
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i think we discredit to is like when i was in college i had a training room you could just go into
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the training room every single day of the week and go get get treatment of some sort or have
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someone work on you um i could get massages every other week which uh don't have that uh
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financial ability like you know it was covered and i didn't pay for it in college but you know
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you get you get into the real world and then you know so there's definitely luxuries that i had then
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that i think are impactful and so i wouldn't say there's like a one-size-fits-all answer to that
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there's we're all made differently we have you know there's i think once something i learned recently
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in a in a class that i took at my PT was just you know some of us have different ways that our
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bodies are structured that put us at risk for different types of injuries and we all move
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in a way that suits our our own specific strength and so sometimes that's good and sometimes that can
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be not good for injury prevention um and so that's those are things that like you can work on but
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there's also like there's limitations on you know you might have to be a little bit more
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you might have that structure you're training a little bit differently you might have to do more
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cross-training in order to get the same cardio fast-fueler benefits and aerobic benefits you might
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you know have to do a little bit less mileage or or whatever um and so those things could be factors
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and then the other factors are just kind of like what type of one or are you or you're more fast switch
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fiber runner or you're more slow twitch fiber runner and um there's variations in how those
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different types of athletes should train to to get the most out of it and prevent injury so
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it's i think it's just super complicated and there's never i run into this with athletes i work with
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two that sometimes it's just like i it's hard to boil down like why did you get injured even doing
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everything like it's there's not always an answer and you know it's sometimes it's like how
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quickly did you catch on this thing was bothering you um how quickly did you adjust how were you
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fixated on getting your miles in when something was bothering you or you know that kind of stuff
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really has an impact on us and you know how ours our mindset about it so
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and knowing that the takeaway cannot be just be younger and more injury proof what if you
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maybe learned about yourself along this way and the the type of runner you are that's helping you
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become less prone to injury yeah i think that the biggest thing has been listening to my body a
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lot better i used to not i used to kind of like have a plan for myself and uh goals for races and
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workouts that i were why we kind of get more frustrated if i didn't meet them and i didn't kind
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of factor in uh outside influence like weather and things like that i just kind of was like
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gotta do it and i also was constantly in this headspace to prove to myself that i could run
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x-pace on this workout or you know i had i was stubborn about what i wanted to run and
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not about what i should be running and uh and so i think that i've i've had to kind of look at that
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take a hard look at that and be like am i even building fitness in the way that i want to by doing
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these workouts this way probably not and so that was something i had to come to terms with and
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be mindful of is just like the balance of it is gonna get me farther than running hard
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faster every day i'm just gonna be more broken down uh i do think i've tend to be a little bit more
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of a fast twitch kind of more intermediate fiber they have kind of fall in the middle i'm not quite
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like a mile five k runner uh but i think i am probably my best suited distances are probably like 10 k
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half marathon and so uh you know i'm training for marathons now so i have to kind of adjust
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what that means and and training to kind of make sure i'm still working towards my goal so
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something i'm gonna try this training block is actually doing a little bit shorter of a marathon
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block like i'm gonna see if i you know if i feel a little bit better and that's actually what i did
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in my first marathon i didn't i wasn't doing i think i we had increased the workouts but i was still
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training with the girls at nc state when i ran my first marathon uh we were just kind of tacking on
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extra intervals or or whatever for a period of time and then the last six weeks i started working
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with a coach who was giving me marathon specific training so i think it was just six weeks and
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it was successful it worked really well for me and so i'm thinking you know if i am a little bit
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more of a fast switch intermediate fiber athlete and i lean more that direction i don't want to lose
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that skill set when i reach marathon training so i want to i want it to still be something that i
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touched on recently enough that i don't start to kind of lose my myself and my strengths within a
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cycle and so i'm gonna see if maybe like doing just a little bit shorter of a build i also know that
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i think i'm a pretty salty sweater and so i've been a lot more mindful of my hydration and
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that has been i think really helpful and in just being able to you know feel better and recover
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faster and all that from runs in general just being better hydrated i also have been doing a little
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bit of heat acclimation just trying to see what i can do and just kind of making myself a little
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bit more uncomfortable times and you know in a safe way just to kind of work on those elements
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but at the same time like that's going to be harder on my on me it's going to be a lot more
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to take it's going to take a lot more out of me if i am a really salty sweater because i'm getting
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dehydrated a lot more often that that was another reason why i was like you know maybe a shorter marathon
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block especially with the race i'm doing being you know October 20th i think it's 20th either that
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of the 19th um you know with that being the goal race my training is going to part of it's going
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to be in the heat so you know we have to kind of weigh that out and so i was like yeah let's just
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like try that and let's focus on speed for a while over the summer without doing too much crazy
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volume and then wait to kind of jack things up so that's been that's been something i've been sort of
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thinking about and towing with and um but then again yeah like if i need to adjust last week i was
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recovering a lot slower from the race than i would have liked and so the workout that i did last
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week later in the week was a cut down but it was i did i took one minute rest intervals between
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each of the cut down miles and that was what i needed because i my legs were still a little bit sore
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and not in a prime condition to do a hard workout so i thought let's do a cut down starting from a
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steady effort not overdoing it um last mile got hard but the rest of them were pretty much where i
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where i think i was like i got a benefit of it but didn't work too hard and so and that's been
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something i've been really trying to just play around with is you know adjusting being flexible
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using things like the lever to my advantage um being able to just go ahead and take a rest day
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if things are feeling a little bit too much at any point or something's not feeling right
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you know always being counter you know i get ahead of it get ahead of the aches and pains um can help
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i think a lot of runners get really attached to being in shape and it can almost be hard to let go of
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it and it sounds like you're doing a lot of things to sort of wait to be in shape at the right time
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whether that's a shorter training cycle or taking more rest or doing more of your mileage it
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kind of a a lower um lower weight bearing percentage on the lever what do you think is the shift
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in mindset that that led to training in that different capacity i think it was just kind of like
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reminding myself that you in the day like what's the what are the big goals um what are like
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am i having i want to enjoy it i want to feel good doing it i don't want to feel beat up by it i
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don't want to feel like you know i don't i don't think the other thing and i posted this on
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Instagram recently was that uh like when we when we let sort of fear guide our training whether it's
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fear of being losing fitness or fear of not being fit or fear of injury or fear of anything
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we tend to we tend to kind of make bad decisions around our training whether that beat a run
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when we shouldn't be running or not resting when our body's telling us to uh it just kind of ends up
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just in it then it end up just being more stressful and mentally not as fun and so i've kind of
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was like coming to that realization but then i also was like when we let our bodies and sort of
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how we're feeling and all that just enjoy it and the goals and all the things that are coming with it
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be the driver and our confidence then we tend to make better decisions because we're confident
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the fact that i can take this rest day and i'm going to be just fine and sometimes that's just like
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a learned behavior like i've had i when i first when i ran my half marathon PR i had stopped
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using my GPS watch for a period of time because it was making me crazy like i was obsessing over
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the paces that i was running and then i stopped doing that and i was running with friends and
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not paying attention to my i was running for time i wasn't running for miles technically but i
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would kind of equate amount of time to miles and it didn't matter what pace i was actually running
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i was still just going to go by whatever that was and i had just you know generical time x on
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and i found that to be super valuable because i did slow down on my easy runs i just wasn't super
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cognizant of it i was just kind of like doing my runs and not worrying about that part and
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i ended up running my half marathon PR and so i sort of learned from that perspective that
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like it doesn't matter what pace i'm running and you know taking it easier and having good workouts
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come out of that really helped me to realize that i can have that flexibility there too that like
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that's not going to be the thing that breaks me like running slower may actually be what i needed
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and so that gave me something to sort of reinforce that part of me that so sometimes it's actually
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being a little bit open to just doing things that you're feel for fearful of or are a little bit
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unsure of like you were racing for me this last weekend like this last week i knew it was a little
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soon and i knew that i wouldn't love that and i knew and but it was a good learning experience and
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practice for me i i realized when i feel like i don't when i don't feel ready i'm a lot more nervous
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and that impacts me a little bit more so i i don't love racing from that perspective and yeah
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like it's probably a good thing that i raced a little bit under under trained just to kind of like
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have that perspective but it's like i don't this doesn't feel good to me i don't really enjoy it i
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like to feel ready i like to give myself more time i like to have this good base of training before
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i really pushed my body hard and so you know ideally i wouldn't i wouldn't do that in the future i
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would try to make sure i have races that are pushed farther out so that i don't run into that
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again because again like i don't want to be i i had to rush things a little bit more than i
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will have like to i threw it and work out sooner than i would have um just to be ready for the race
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and i think it i think i was fighting like it and i but i just didn't feel as good racing either so
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you know coming off of that i was like yeah let's go ahead and just monitor that think about
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i was gonna that was you might run your race this coming weekend and then i was like you know
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no i think i'm better off stepping back thinking about the end goal which is my marathon in the fall
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you know i want to make sure that i'm prepared for that and so if i you know keep pushing in and
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don't give myself the space to kind of make sure i'm developing all these systems in the right
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order and in the right way then i'm not going to be where i want to be in October and so
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we're a long way out and i have to kind of keep reminding myself of like yeah i love to have been
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really in fit and ready to go and run all these races but there it's not going to suit my long
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term goal and so you know we have to kind of put your ego aside and be like yeah this isn't the move
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this is not the move i get more important things i want to do so you know listen to your body
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yeah and i think we've talked a lot about some of the things you've learned about treating your body
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better over time but i think you know hindsight is 2020 we all learn over time one of the most
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dangerous things is falling into that trap of doing the same things again and again and you know i
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fall in victim to this too so looking ahead say four months close to your marathon or even
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years beyond that is there anything that you really hope you remember from this experience to
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to make yourself a better runner in the future yeah i'd say that the honestly i learned a lot about
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this experience going into this surgery from the period of time in 2020 i did take
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2020 beginning of that year i was really having a lot of health issues and then i had a sick
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ultrasound fracture in the middle of the that year i think was in de vaporol so kind of similar
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timing to my surgery i had a stress fracture in my sacrum and but i had been having trouble just
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getting consistent training together before that and then coming back from it i was having the
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health issues had gotten worse and i was so it ended up being that i had like a reactivation of
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mono or the ebb virus and so that are ebb and so that was what was causing a lot of the issue so i
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wasn't a lot i couldn't didn't have a good training year in general and then i had to take three
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months off to recover from that autoimmune issue and so when i went through that period that was
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super hard and i that was it really ended up testing a lot of the things i'd been struggling with
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so i had been having issues with like you know the body image and eating disordered stuff that
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had lingered even though we were like i had been working on it really hard the break was what i
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needed to get my body to reset and kind of go back and and get some trust back with it so that period
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was really challenging and really hard but i think it really helped me to come back and
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know that i could and so when i went into this injury cycle i was like you know what i know that i
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can do it because i just did it and this is not going to be nearly as hard and the other thing i
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learned from it was you know the first three months when i had to take that time off i wasn't allowed
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to get my heart rate up so i had to kind of keep things very light i wasn't allowed to do a lot of
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training i was on this was kind of more restricted diet i'd been already not able to do a consistent
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training for over a year and so the comeback took a lot longer this time i just even the smallest
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amount of cross training like that first month i was like barely going any distance on the bike
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it would go like 10 minutes and go point one miles you know like you i wasn't going anywhere but
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the small amount of just sort of like putting two feet in front of the other and just sort of
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seeing my progress i got a little competitive with myself i will say through the recovery part
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but that was kind of motivating to me you know i was like oh i'm going to do 15 i was going to i was
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kind of like trying to do longer like go farther so like you know point two on 10 10 minutes
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so i was kind of like focusing a little bit on that uh not going crazy to the point where i would
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re-endrew myself but that was kind of a good focus for me um but you know that that second time i was
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able to really have good trust in my body uh that it was going to be fine and so i wasn't having this
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like crazy ups and downs feeling and so i was able to appreciate the process a lot better of recovery
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and appreciate the process of rebounding and coming back and i was able to come back so much faster
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i was honestly shocked i my first race after the surgery was it was not really a race i wouldn't say
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it was it was a little bit premature but i really wanted to do the 50th anniversary of the Virginia
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Ten Miler so i think that that race was actually my first race that i did where i ran the into
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like our first run that i had done in my recovery that was a full run that was amazing
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that's amazing and i was third overall in the four mile i ran i think six forty something pace
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so definitely like you know far off a lot of my my times my PR i was about ripping off the band-aid
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yeah i honestly i was like that might have been i was a little nervous it was a dumb decision but
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i i i felt good i felt fine i was for him felt good i didn't feel like i caused any damage from it
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everything was good so that was a positive i went right back to my run walking i didn't just
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saw a result and just be like cool burst we're healed i think i actually gave myself a little bit
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more time to kind of continue to put those pieces back together uh before i started to kind of
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push anything uh and then the second race i did it at 10k here locally in our new city chanuga and i
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was running a six minute pace for that 10k so you know we could i could see that progression in real time
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and then the third race i did was a four mile and i think i actually ran faster in that four mile
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than i did a couple years before when i ran that race so i was able to really see that come back
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like so much quicker um a body was just in such a good so i think that so much of the time if you
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just are patient with yourself and then trust your body don't feel like you have to do this like
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overwhelming amount of cross-training i was doing i i think i started like after i got past the the
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bike i was doing some more aqua jogging i was throwing in some aqua jogging workouts but i was doing
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i think the longest that i did in the pool was like i did a long i was doing some long runs that
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were maybe like 90 minutes max i wasn't doing any like crazy intense long runs or long bike
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rights i was doing some longer stuff but just like i went in training just like a longer
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stint on the bike or a longer pool or aqua jogging session um but i was kind of structuring just
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like i would training most of the time during the week i was only doing like 45 to minutes to an
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hour of of exercising and still giving myself a rest day every week so i didn't go crazy with it
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i had a plan you know enjoyed it really kind of embraced the the ability to kind of just do more
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and focus on that and then i was focusing on the the then i started focusing on just sort of like
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moving functionally and then you know all came from there and so i i that really helped me i think
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the three months where i had to really play the really go back to basics and start over basically
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back in 2020 really prepared me for being able to so if you're going through this cycle and like
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this rest really scares you just really it's gonna be hard i mean there's gonna be periods where
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you're really kind of like faced with the fears like head on but you just kind of have to let
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yourself experience them and you know find a way through and you're gonna get to the other side
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and you're gonna be like wow i just learned something something about myself like i'm fine
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everything's fine uh i when i went through it with the first time it i had a like a i think it gave
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myself a cure or i would do something one hour of these like sort of negative or fearful thoughts of
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like i'm not exercising enough i'm not doing enough uh came up i would just sort of do something
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that made me feel strong and that really helped me to remind myself that like i'm still strong i'm
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still capable like all these things are still here you know so that that that process felt a little
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bit less um anxiety producing and that was kind of what how i was able to get here and so i really
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focused on enjoying the process through the recovery and then also the build back up was enjoyable i
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was able to really see that that process that progress in real time and that was super fun for me so
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yeah well first off congrats on the race 640 miling pace after not even having done a straight run
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after a recovery that's insane yeah i was honestly pretty shocked i was like oh it was not too bad
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and it's a hilly course so i was like okay it goes like downhill the first mile and then kind of
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rolls and then it was back up that hill at the end so um i intended to try not to make that race too
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hard and then but when i finished i was like that's the best of a race that race
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that's incredible i never never managed the course as well until that day so yeah it was it was a good
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place to start good motivating place to start i wouldn't rush that though you know i don't
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don't feel like you have to race i wouldn't have run that race if i and normal's under normal
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circumstances i did have clearance i did talk to people the pts beforehand but that's a good note
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do as i say and not as i do right yeah 100% like don't be an any rush to actually like figure out
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your motivations are behind doing that race i i wore my trainers i didn't put on my racing shoes
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so that i just really work on not overdoing it because that was the number one goal was to not get
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to and to overly invested in it uh it was really just a kind of like run just run and try to run a
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good race without going too hard and keep and so i actually that would think that's how i raised it so
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well i get fitness was not there yet so that i think that's why i didn't get in hard there at the end
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but i did feel like i managed it so much better than i ever have so yeah and if we're to take some
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of this in kind of a broader context even beyond recovery or injuries is is there anything through the
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last year or two and um the surgery and coming back to it and getting back to racing that that
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you've really learned about yourself for running or or just what makes you better as an athlete um i mean
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i think it just boils down to i have built more a little bit more confidence in myself and i've been
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i mean the biggest things have just been able literally listening to my body which i think i
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just keep saying over and over again but that was the biggest thing i didn't do well before and it's
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the thing that i've i've started doing workouts where i am sometimes not even looking at the like i
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i go out and i'm like i go go by effort and so i'll start off and i will start i won't start by
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looking at the watch i'll start by feeling what it feels like and i'm like okay do i think i
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can hold this for the entirety this workout does this feel like a half-merit on effort or does this
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feel like whatever effort um and then i'll look at the pace when i see the split come up and so
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then that sets the tone of like okay you know this workout say it was like i think i was doing i think
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i have a i specifically remember i did that on it was four by two and it was a little bit warmer that
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day full sun and i was like all right let's aim for whatever effort and so i started off i looked down
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the pace which was slower than i had written on my calendar but i was like this is the effort for
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today this is the right effort i think and so i was like let me just stick with this and if i can
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stick with this this is a success and that was what i did i think i did end up getting a little bit
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faster just from getting into the workout a little bit farther but it was not a whole lot i
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kind of is able to keep it super consistent and feel strong throughout and so i'm
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being super proud of that effort i was like that was great like you know this was exactly what
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my body needed today and i feel like in the past i would have forced i would have tried to go for the
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pace and i would have ended up having to cut the workout short or adjusted the workout in some way
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because it was not coming together and um instead of just being afraid and of oh it being in the
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heat and i got a you know can i do this workout i just sort of gave myself flexibility to approach it
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in a way that i would be able to finish and then you know if even if i slowed it down and i still
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need to do a just like that's okay that's totally fine but i adjusted and i let myself go by effort
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and i finished the workout as planned i didn't have to adjust it i just was a little bit slower and
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that was what i needed that day so i think those are the things that i've become better at um i i've
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been coaching myself right now uh just because i've kind of been enjoying sort of just the the
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flexibility of that of being able to sort of adjust and fluctuate things based on how my body's
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feeling and not and i think i've been giving myself permission more that way i know that not every
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athlete has is that way but that's been i think something that's been good for me is just being
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able to not feel um you know like i have to do something and i know myself right now so i'm like
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okay i feel confident in doing this workout versus this one and it feels like the right move for
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what i need so that's been good um but that's you know not everybody has that that luxury but
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yeah i think um it's been nice to i don't know how long i'll do i'll coach myself for uh but coming
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back from injury it was helpful so yeah and at this point in your running what do you define is your
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main objective or reason for the run and that that can be a race or but it can also be like is
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there is there something else that's motivating you motivating you right now more than anything um i
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mean i i do i i really want and this is probably like a little bit like surface level but i really
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want to qualify for the 20-28 Olympic trials marathon just enough to standard right yes it's
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237 for the women they haven't they're gonna do an a b standard but they haven't announced what's
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a versus b um but i i ran the 2016 trials dropped out and uh i think in a lot of ways that was
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that defined a lot of how i was training then um my that marathon i was like got to run 100
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mile weeks got to do all these things got to and i wasn't listening to my body at all and i got to
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the race i was sick that week which has come in if you over to it your immune system is heightened
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and not not in a great position so i got sick the week before the race i had overtrained i was having
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issues i was having symptoms of overtraining prior to the race and i did not adjust on race day i
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did not look at the trials as like uh this is a great opportunity to just run and finish and say you
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ran the Olympic trials like that was not the approach i had and i dropped out so for in a lot of ways
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i really have been these last this last cycle i wanted to qualify in 2024 but the hamstring stuff
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and the hip stuff was kind of the reason that that never came together i felt ready for it i felt
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like i was fit enough but it just you know the injuries really prevented me from being able to race
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but you know so ever you know thinking back you know the Olympics are in LA which is where i ran
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the 2016 trials i don't know where the trials will be this year probably lia who knows
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but that's been the big motivating factor i mean eight years later if i could qualify for the
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i guess not eight years 12 years later i can't do math right now yeah 12 years after i qualify
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being able to go back and finally re-qualify uh oh i think it would just kind of be a really good
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cap because this could be i don't know i have no idea where where my rest of my running career will go
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and i'm definitely getting up there in age now um so it just feels like it would be a good full
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circle moment to be able to qualify and race again at the Olympic trials and finish like that's
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that's literally like the the one thing i would just super love to accomplish if that doesn't
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happen for me that's you know it's totally fine but um yeah i just sort of want to be able to go
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back and take it just have that opportunity over again and and do it in a way that i can just
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redefine that moment for myself and not have it be what it was in 2016 which was just sort of a rough
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a rough go and also kind of the the period where i started going in the wrong direction training
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wise where i just sort of started really struggling and and so i'd really love to just be able to
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have that be the the cap to all of this and all the all the running in my career you know may not be
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the end of my career but i would just be a really good way to um come back to it so yeah
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what uh what would it mean to overcome those setbacks to achieve that goal that you'd been chasing
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for so long i mean i think that it would just sort of i bring i don't i don't know i
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so much of my career since i ran my first marathon to now through this the up through the
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a lot of the downs that happened coming off of my 2016 indie monumental marathon where i really
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struggled for a few years um i kept i was sort of counting the years like since i had run well
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and i don't i can't there's a i ran okay in 2017 i had some good races but it was hot so my times
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were as fast and so i was kind of giving myself a uh and kind of giving myself negative feelings
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about that year but it wasn't that bad but i it did keep getting worse after that and i struggled
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and i struggled and i just and i just feel like the ability to kind of bounce back and
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and prove to myself that i that i that my potential that i knew i had then is still the error that i
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i had that potential then and um you know maybe i could have expressed it that that's the thing that
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has been really weighing on me is that i felt like i had so much potential when i ran my first marathon
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and um all the halfs to qualify for the trials i'd so much potential and then i lost it or i just
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felt like i um it got farther and farther away and in the back of my head i've just been like i
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know that i have more potential in the marathon in the half than i was maybe in the marathon maybe
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done in half i don't know i ran pretty fast in half um i feel like i have more potential uh and i
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i just would you know being able to run in qualified for the trials and run a two thirty sub two thirty
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seven would be able to kind of remind myself like yes i i didn't waste i think the other hard part
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is the the health the health part of that and the eating disorder part of that uh has really
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made me super have a lot of regret for things that that happened and things that i had choices i made
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and so i really want to be able to say like you can rebound from it you can come back from it
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um and really see my potential i just want to be able to like have that opportunity to really see
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the potential that i had come back here and yeah so yeah i don't know do you think there's other
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runners who maybe will never run at the Olympic trials but who will look at that is a you know a
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pretty cool thing that you're managing to come back and achieve such a lofty goal i hope so
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because i think that it's been something that i also think about when um especially with like
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younger athletes and and things like that uh if they're kind of feeling the pressure or they're
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in this position where they're you know underfueling or doing something that's not going to be good
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for them long term that they'll think about sort of just like i don't let's skip that middle part
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let's not go down that path and have that sort of negative not even negative but just like
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to have to deal with that because it's it has been sort of the thing that's been the hardest
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about going through this this injury cycle and the timing of it was that it really cut into the
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the timeline of time that i have left to continue to exceed see how much faster i can get
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just because i'm you know about to be you know i mean i am mid thirties and so there's definitely
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like a little bit of a window of time here and for me and uh you know i just i would hate to have
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other athletes experience that and kind of not get to get to see themselves continue to succeed
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and reach whatever goals they would like to reach so part of me all things a lot about that like
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you know this is not you know you don't have to do it this way um be healthy think about that first
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you're gonna be able to take it a lot farther if you do that um you've so much time to develop and
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do stuff like that uh but then for athletes who are just like generally training and and just
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trying to meet their goals like yeah if you if there was something that happened in your training
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and it kind of took you away from it and you've been struggling with that i mean they're still
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just listen to things listen to your body be able to give yourself grace and be able to take rest
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when you need to consistency is just so much more important so finding ways to be consistent and
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do the thing and knowing that it's gonna be a challenge but you know all you can do is try
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and so that's really where i've been it's like you know i may never reach i may not i may not reach
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the goal but i'm i want to be able to get to the end of my time as a elite competitive runner
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being able to say that i i did everything i could in the process that i didn't i didn't let things i
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the experiences i had in my past prevent me from trying and so same thing goes to i think any other
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runner out there that just keep you gotta keep trying if you if you have something you's really
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motivating if you want to go off air Boston marathon or something like that you know keep keep doing
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putting it together and um enjoy it like have fun embrace it that embrace the process because honestly
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this last year was great because i was able to look back on it and be like look how much progress i
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made look how much like what i was able to do i was so proud of it and shocked honestly that i was
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able to make such good progress so um that stuff has been really great so even if i don't reach it like
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i did all the things right i did this last by 30s i've been running smarter training better
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um enjoying it more and so those are things that i'm gonna be able to carry with me so i hope that
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for everyone yeah i think that's part of the fun of running right is that it's hard to do and you
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don't know if you're gonna achieve your goals but it really is the journey rather than the destination and
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whatever happens i think super cool that you can chase big lofty goals and put it all out there
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to really go after it and you know tell the world literally on this podcast what those goals are
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yeah yeah yeah so fingers crossed hopefully uh good weather and things for my marathon in the fall
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but either way just sort of taking everything and stride and enjoying the process so yeah yeah just
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have just keep focusing forward and and what kind of you want to achieve and um yeah not letting it
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define you but enjoying it well i hope so much that you crushed the race and what what is the marathon
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that you're gonna be running in October oh Columbus the Columbus Nationwide Children's Hospital
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Marathon so i love i've that's where my PR half marathon is so i've been wanting to run this marathon
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for a few years and um so i was like why not this year let's do it be fun have it run the marathon
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there so that i'd be good to undetackle nice no town like the present right yeah and i've been on
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a journey to like also be like run races you haven't run before i got stuck doing the same
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ones over and over again and i was like no we got to experience more so yeah i love it well best of
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lock andy i know you're well hoping for good weather for you and if all goes well with the recovery
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and stuff that it's a great run and i know you'll have a little bit more time before that to run
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that trial standard so i'm excited to watch that journey and and thanks for coming on to share
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with us about what's gone into to come and back from injury and surgery to to kidding on your
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bike with with crutches all the way to now running 10 milers and hopefully a marathon on October
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yep 100 percent yeah thanks for having me on and it's um hopefully motivating for some people to
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to keep moving forward if they're kind of in this in this position with injury so yeah i think it
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definitely was thanks andy yep
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thank you for listening to the run to the top podcast i'm your sure runner and host
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cori n'agler and after two incredible years hosting i want to end off by thanking you for
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supporting the show i'm really just a normal guy who works at a desk during the day and loves to run
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when i first got offered the chance to interview coaches athletes and other runners from all over
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the world i couldn't have possibly been more excited this has become a passion project for me
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and i really love sharing those conversations with the running community i'm sad to see the podcast
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come to an end but the mission to help runners train smarter and stay injury free doesn't stop here
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if you want to continue getting great running content then head to runnersconnect.net to
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subscribe to the newsletter and find lots of great blog articles as for me you can follow my
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running journey on strap up that interests you by putting cori n'agler into the search bar that's
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cori, co-ri and n'agler, n-a-g-l-e-r thank you for listening and one last time happy running
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