Ken Burns Explains What We Got Wrong About the Revolutionary War | Drop A Pin Ep. 52

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hey Barstool listeners, you can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify

spk_0 or YouTube.

spk_0 Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.

spk_0 One year ago, two coworkers decided to start a travel podcast to explore the history of

spk_0 exotic locations all across the world.

spk_0 Something never been done before in the walls of barstool sports.

spk_0 Today, these brave podcasters are releasing their biggest episode yet.

spk_0 In honor of the one year anniversary of the show, we sat down with Mr. History himself.

spk_0 Ken, mother fucking burns.

spk_0 Hey, how are you?

spk_0 Welcome back to Drop a Pin, a very special episode because this podcast is officially a

spk_0 year old.

spk_0 Mm-hmm.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 The haters said we couldn't do it.

spk_0 We survived.

spk_0

spk_0 I feel like if your pod survives a year, it could definitely survive four years.

spk_0 Yeah, I mean, a lot.

spk_0 Most people's pods don't last a year.

spk_0 We only have seven and a half more to go to pass my longest running.

spk_0 I can't.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 And I feel like we've only scratched the surface of what we can do on this pod.

spk_0 We still haven't done a China episode.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And that's where I lived for eight years.

spk_0 So we'll definitely be getting into some of my China stories in the future.

spk_0 And like we said, I think at the beginning, you and I didn't really have a whole lot of

spk_0 conversations.

spk_0 Like we didn't have like a strong relationship by any means.

spk_0 No, we were always friendly with each other, but this podcast was like our first time

spk_0 talking.

spk_0 So I think we're getting more comfortable with that.

spk_0 Yeah, I think we're hitting our stride.

spk_0 You're probably wondering why are we dressed in revolutionary war costumes?

spk_0 That's because we have our biggest guests yet.

spk_0 I mean, yeah, without a doubt.

spk_0 Everybody that we talked to as soon as we said who it was, they were pumped.

spk_0 And I think he is the most accomplished documentarian that there is in the United States,

spk_0 possibly ever in the United States.

spk_0 He is and you'll hear it soon.

spk_0 Maybe the smartest person, like historian that I've ever talked to, the amount of information

spk_0 that is in his brain is unbelievable.

spk_0 I've never met a man more passionate about America than him.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like he bleeds America.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 For sure.

spk_0 We were privileged to talk to him.

spk_0 It is Ken Burns.

spk_0 He originally said he could only do 45 minutes or something, but I think we talked to him

spk_0 for like an hour and 15.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I think he really enjoyed the conversation just as much as we did.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And without further ado, let's hear it.

spk_0 Hey, how are you?

spk_0 Welcome back to Drop a Pen.

spk_0 And today we have, I think maybe our biggest guest yet.

spk_0 I guess so big.

spk_0 We came to him.

spk_0 One of the most influential documentary filmmakers of our time, Mr. American History,

spk_0 Ken Burns.

spk_0 My goodness.

spk_0 What a great way to wake up.

spk_0 Thank you for coming to me, by the way, because all I've been doing is going to everybody

spk_0 else.

spk_0 So I'm very happy to be here with you.

spk_0 It's an honor to be here.

spk_0 And I know, I mean, you've done all sorts of documentaries, most focused on American

spk_0 history.

spk_0 But one of your biggest ones yet is coming out soon.

spk_0 And it's on the American Revolution, six parts, 12 hours.

spk_0 And that's dropping November 16th.

spk_0 That's correct.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Let me just say sort of, I won't work on a more important film.

spk_0 The emphasis on the word more.

spk_0 I feel like other films that I've made, like the Vietnam series, like the Civil War,

spk_0 like our series on World War II.

spk_0 Maybe the US and the Holocaust, other films are as important.

spk_0 I hope I will continue to do films that are as important.

spk_0 But there's nothing more important than that, particularly now when Americans find themselves

spk_0 in this sort of very anxious period where they don't know who they are.

spk_0 So in a way, there's a kind of self therapy that takes place.

spk_0 When an individual is having some sort of crisis, you go to somebody, a professional,

spk_0 and they say, they start asking questions.

spk_0 And the questions are, where did you come from?

spk_0 What's your origin story?

spk_0 What tell me the circumstances?

spk_0 And I think for Americans at that place where they need that kind of re-engagement with who

spk_0 they are, their identity, going back to the beginning and finding out what actually happened.

spk_0 I don't mean all the romanticized versions of the American Revolution.

spk_0 It's tough to get in there because there are no photographs.

spk_0 There's no newsreels.

spk_0 They're, you know, in wigs and they wear stockings and breaches and there's buckles on their

spk_0 shoes and they don't, they couldn't possibly be like us.

spk_0 They're exactly like us.

spk_0 And they came to some conclusions about their circumstances as good as those circumstances

spk_0 essentially were and said, we can do better.

spk_0 And it had to do with how these incredibly different 13 colonies decided that they could

spk_0 forget a lot of those outward differences and come to terms with what they shared in

spk_0 common.

spk_0 And then to rise up against what was, you know, probably the best form of government on

spk_0 Earth at that time, the British constitutional monarchy and offer something even better.

spk_0 But wait, new and improved and that's what we got and that's the story of the revolution.

spk_0 And it isn't just, you know, Lexington and then Yorktown.

spk_0 It is an eight and a half year bloody war and it is tough and people suffered and it's

spk_0 a really surprising story and the sequence of battles are as important to learn as they

spk_0 are in say World War II or the Civil War or Vietnam in terms of why we're sitting here

spk_0 talking this morning.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I grew up in the Boston area.

spk_0 So I know so much about what happened leading up to the war.

spk_0 But then once the war starts, it's like, all right, Washington crossed the Delaware,

spk_0 Yadayada, they surrender at Yorktown, and then boom, we're a country.

spk_0 Basically Hamilton.

spk_0 Yeah, basically Hamilton.

spk_0 And like, I probably know more than some people.

spk_0 I wanted to show you one clip of two of our co-workers talking about the Revolutionary

spk_0 War.

spk_0 And yeah, I don't know if you'll be shocked or if you'll be like, no, that's part of

spk_0 the course with most Americans.

spk_0 Why did we get into a war and who was it with?

spk_0 All right, I know the war was with the Brits.

spk_0 They were taxing tea, right?

spk_0 There was tea involved, yeah.

spk_0 But it was mainly like taxes.

spk_0 I think you're spot on.

spk_0 We had a bunch of people who came over in the Mayflower.

spk_0 And what religion were they?

spk_0 Were they Catholic?

spk_0 Protestant.

spk_0 OK.

spk_0 What do you see in that word?

spk_0 Protest.

spk_0 Yeah, that's exactly what they were.

spk_0 They were sick and tired of the Catholic church taxing them pretty much for trying to be

spk_0 religious.

spk_0 I'm pretty sure.

spk_0 So that's the main reason why we want our independence.

spk_0 George Dub.

spk_0 He organizes a rag tag crew.

spk_0 These guys are farmers.

spk_0 They're fucking throwing rocks.

spk_0 That's they don't have guns.

spk_0 We're fighting the Brits in New York City.

spk_0 Britain has this big navy and they're just crushin' us.

spk_0 We're just basically trying to survive and we're still retreating, still retreating until

spk_0 the Delaware River.

spk_0 What happens when we reach the Delaware River?

spk_0 This is in December, OK?

spk_0 OK, so it's cold.

spk_0 It's cold.

spk_0 Christmas Eve.

spk_0 They hired a bunch of guns for hire from Germany?

spk_0 What were they called?

spk_0 Hitmen.

spk_0 Boy, they're hitler-loving ones.

spk_0 Germans.

spk_0 Hessians.

spk_0 These guys are getting fucked up on Christmas Eve, right?

spk_0 Like boozing or fucked up?

spk_0 No, boozing.

spk_0

spk_0 The American troops.

spk_0 The prize them on Christmas Eve.

spk_0 So we go in there and we fuck them up.

spk_0 So essentially after that, we kind of won the war.

spk_0 We won the war on Christmas.

spk_0 Pretty much.

spk_0 So the street of Paris, 1783.

spk_0 The boys are declared winners.

spk_0 I don't know if you know the answer to this question, but why Paris if we fought?

spk_0 That's way of my take.

spk_0 OK, so do you want me to begin?

spk_0 Taxes?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 But secondary.

spk_0 Taxes and representations.

spk_0 Secondary, probably to Indian land.

spk_0 Because the colonists are there on the East and Seaboard and they want to go over and just

spk_0 take Native American land.

spk_0 But the Brits now, be careful what you wish for, won the French and Indian War, which is

spk_0 actually a global war, which the rest of the world calls the Seven Years War.

spk_0 And they said we can't afford to protect you so you can't go across the Appalachian.

spk_0 So people are really pissed off.

spk_0 Not just normal families that won 125 acres to start a fan and own land for the first

spk_0 time in a thousand years.

spk_0 You're from Wales, Scotland, Ireland, England.

spk_0 And you probably, your family has worked the same piece of land for somebody else for

spk_0 a thousand years.

spk_0 But now the chance to own it, that's a big deal.

spk_0 So Indian land, I put number one, then taxes and representation.

spk_0 That's number two.

spk_0 So then where do we go from there?

spk_0 What did he say?

spk_0 So crossing to Delaware, he retreats across New York was the big stronghold.

spk_0 It fell due to an error of George Washington's tactical mistake.

spk_0 He made the mistake of all mistakes in the biggest battle of the revolution in the

spk_0 Battle of Long Island.

spk_0 And only by sheer luck and fog was he able to retreat and get back to New York, which

spk_0 he eventually had to give up.

spk_0 And from September 15, 1776 until after the Treaty of Paris, November 25, 1783, you do the

spk_0 math.

spk_0 That's seven years and two months.

spk_0 New York is the British stronghold.

spk_0 But they also are stronghold throughout New Jersey.

spk_0 He crosses the Delaware.

spk_0 And it's not a Christmas Eve, it's a Christmas night.

spk_0 They don't get there till early in the morning of the 26th.

spk_0 It doesn't know indication that the Germans have been drinking or whatever.

spk_0 The Americans did find a store of rum and broke into it and Washington had it destroyed.

spk_0 Worried that his troops would become drunk.

spk_0 There are so many battles before that, like Bunker's Hill that we're talking about.

spk_0 So many battles, like Kips Bay, like the Battle of White Plains, like all this guerrilla

spk_0 warfare in New Jersey.

spk_0 And then what's coming up in Pennsylvania at Brandy Wine and Pailey Tavern and Germantown,

spk_0 the British take Philadelphia as well.

spk_0 And then they decide to retreat from it.

spk_0 There's a big battle in New Jersey called Monmouth Court House.

spk_0 And nothing happens in New England per se and the Central States, the Southern Strategy

spk_0 of the British will.

spk_0 Maybe we can't hold on to all the states.

spk_0 Let's get a few back.

spk_0 And they go south.

spk_0 They take Georgia, Savannah.

spk_0 They take Charleston eventually and then they move into because guerrilla war in South

spk_0 Carolina is so bad.

spk_0 New Jersey and South Carolina are the places you don't want to be.

spk_0 And then Cornwallis defying his orders from his superior in New York City, the main center

spk_0 of British stuff.

spk_0 He sends, he just heads up into North Carolina and then into Virginia and chooses the

spk_0 worst possible place to have his, which is Yorktown.

spk_0 Washington's already warned his own man.

spk_0 And don't ever try to have a sizable force at Yorktown.

spk_0 And then by that time the friendship come into our side because I haven't mentioned all

spk_0 the battles in the Northern Campaign.

spk_0 We tried a failed invasion of Canada.

spk_0 Sound familiar?

spk_0 Trying to make it the 14th state, not the 51st state.

spk_0 That fails.

spk_0 We battle over Taikhander Roga and all these different places.

spk_0 Bergoin comes down with a big army led by British soldiers, Hessian, German fighters and

spk_0 Native American allies of the British and loyalists who are in every state fighting for

spk_0 the British serving as spies for them.

spk_0 And they lose at Saratoga unexpectedly, an entire army surrenders and that's the key

spk_0 to the French that they're going to come in.

spk_0 Our bosses lost a lot of Saratoga too.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's exactly right.

spk_0 People continue to lose at Saratoga.

spk_0 The hero of the battle of Saratoga is Benedict Arnold.

spk_0 Who from the unbelievable approach through Maine, the Hannibal of the American army is one

spk_0 of the attackers, failed attackers, severely wounded in the left leg at Quebec.

spk_0 Heels comes back.

spk_0 Is the fight in this general.

spk_0 Washington sends him up there to help the relatively new guy, Gates, who will prove to

spk_0 be a coward when he's dispatched south.

spk_0 So you're talking about unbelievable military stuff that's going on that isn't just

spk_0 Trenton's fairly minor thing.

spk_0 The next battle at Princeton's more significant and the battle at Monmouth is even more so.

spk_0 It's sort of a draw, but the British have gotten their supply train back to Sandy Hook and

spk_0 they've been able to get their loyalists and their men back to New York City and protection.

spk_0 And so they've abandoned the battlefield and the Patriots are still there.

spk_0 So we considered an American victory, one of the moves, but then of course the big thing

spk_0 to happen is Yorktown where Washington has got like 19,000 men that have almost half of

spk_0 them are French.

spk_0 He's got the French Navy that has just beat the British out in the opening of the Chesapeake

spk_0 Bay.

spk_0 It's allowed the French guns from Newport to come down and go up the James, not the York

spk_0 River to Williamsburg and then travel across to siege Yorktown.

spk_0 And then finally there's the famous surrender.

spk_0 And even then you're only October of 1781 and it isn't until 1783 that the Treaty of Paris

spk_0 and the reason why it's Paris is because they are our ally and our revolution is not just

spk_0 a fight between us and the Brits, but another world war for the prize of North America.

spk_0 Spain is on our side, the Netherlands are on our side.

spk_0 They are fighting it not just here, but in the Caribbean and in Gibraltar and in the

spk_0 subcontinent of India and what is now the Philippines.

spk_0 It's a big deal for the world because everybody wants this prize.

spk_0 And in the end the Treaty of Paris gives this new country, recognizes the existence of

spk_0 the United States and gives us all the territory to the Mississippi meaning native peoples

spk_0 that were there from the Appalachians to the Mississippi, you're gone.

spk_0 And so this territory is the Treaty of Paris is now ours.

spk_0 Chicago is ours.

spk_0 So it looks like you do know a lot about the American rebel forces.

spk_0 That's just a military stuff.

spk_0 There's so much people going on diplomatically, socially.

spk_0 You know, there's not just the native peoples involved, like 500,000 of the nearly 3 million

spk_0 people who live in the 13 colonies are enslaved or freed black Americans.

spk_0 There's Native Americans living among the colonists who have intermarried or are in support

spk_0 and end up destroying ancient alliances they've had because the Native Americans have had

spk_0 to choose to go with the British or you to go with the Americans.

spk_0 You know the Americans all they want is your territory.

spk_0 Remember, they didn't call their Congress or their army the clinging to the Eastern Seaboard

spk_0 Congress.

spk_0 They called it the Continental Army.

spk_0 Continental, yeah.

spk_0 And they called the Continental Army.

spk_0 They knew exactly where they were going.

spk_0 And Continental meant San Francisco, right?

spk_0 I mean that meant eventually we're going to take it all.

spk_0 And that's going to be, we'd like to pretend that there's no empire involved in our

spk_0 stories.

spk_0 300 nations in what is the political boundaries of the Continental United States.

spk_0 So that's a very complex story for sure.

spk_0 And not at all.

spk_0 They're Native Americans who fight valiantly for the patriots.

spk_0 Rebecca Tanner.

spk_0 Remember the woman Sullivan and World War II Mrs Sullivan?

spk_0 There's a Japanese torpedo that sinks a boat and she loses four sons.

spk_0 The army makes the decision, Department of War, makes the decision that nobody is going

spk_0 to, all families have to be split up, which gives us lots of relief for mothers and saving

spk_0 private Ryan, right?

spk_0 Rebecca Tanner, she loses four sons Mrs Sullivan.

spk_0 Rebecca Tanner, a Mohigan woman probably means Connecticut loses five sons fighting for

spk_0 the Patriot cause.

spk_0 I know of no other sacrifice as great as that mother's sacrifice there.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, that is remarkable five.

spk_0 And I'm sorry.

spk_0 I didn't mean to.

spk_0 No, for sure.

spk_0 I'm not trying to answer that.

spk_0 I'm just going to say this stuff.

spk_0 Just to clarify to them, the war did not end with George Washington crossing the Del

spk_0 and then it just jumps to there was the Yorktown.

spk_0 No, there was another five years crossing the Delaware is in December 25th, 6th of 17

spk_0 76.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 You the war, the battle surrender at Yorktown takes place in October of 81.

spk_0 You do the math and then the Treaty of Paris and evacuation day, evacuation day, November

spk_0 25th when Washington finally gets to take back New York City, the last stronghold, there's

spk_0 a stronghold in Savannah and Charleston and the Britsley, most of them go to their loyal,

spk_0 loyalist allies and they're enslaved people go to the Caribbean and then from New York

spk_0 they mostly go to Nova Scotia where they've been using Halifax as a base too.

spk_0 Anyway, he doesn't get in there in November 25th, 1783.

spk_0 That is like a huge long period of time.

spk_0 I mean, if you just said, Boots in the Ground in Vietnam is March of 1965.

spk_0 Admittedly, we've been in there with advisors and they've been growing in number 700 when

spk_0 Eisenhower left, 17,000 when Kennedy was killed.

spk_0 But if you go from March of 65, eight years, you get to 73.

spk_0 Now, Saigon hasn't fallen but we've pulled out all combat troops.

spk_0 So we basically said to the South, it means you're on your own.

spk_0 So we're still, you know, in terms of real Boots in the Ground and real activity if you

spk_0 count from Lexington, Green, April, 1917, 1975 to this moment, this is our longest war.

spk_0 It's the bloodiest.

spk_0 It's a civil war.

spk_0 Our civil war is a sectional war.

spk_0 Civil war means death of civilian populations doesn't really happen in this civil war except

spk_0 in Missouri and bleeding Kansas to dead civilians in the greatest battle ever fought in North

spk_0 America, Gettysburg.

spk_0 That's remarkable.

spk_0 But if you're in New Jersey, if you're in Eastern Pennsylvania, if you're in South Carolina

spk_0 as I was suggesting, more British soldiers in one season and Hessian soldiers fell out

spk_0 in forage, meaning in guerrilla stuff than fell in any major battle.

spk_0 And there's skirmishes and minor battles and stuff by the hundreds in South Carolina.

spk_0 And it is, you know, one moment a certain area might be dominated by the British and therefore

spk_0 the loyalists are taking it out on their Patriot neighbors and all of a sudden something shifts

spk_0 and the Patriots are winning and they're taking it out on their loyalists.

spk_0 It is a war.

spk_0 And I think we don't want to deal with that because we worry that it diminishes the big ideas

spk_0 because we've buried the lead here.

spk_0 You know, July 4, 1776, there's something new in the world, which is this idea that

spk_0 people are not subjects of an authoritarian but free citizens.

spk_0 That's the biggest deal on earth.

spk_0 And the second sentence of the Declaration is the second most important sentence in the

spk_0 English language after I love you.

spk_0 Right?

spk_0 That's obviously the best one.

spk_0 The second one is we hold these truths to be self-evident.

spk_0 There's nothing self-evident about these truths.

spk_0 They had just not been introduced into the bloodstream.

spk_0 Yeah, sir.

spk_0 There's nothing self-evident.

spk_0 We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are

spk_0 endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty

spk_0 and the pursuit of happiness and happiness to all of the founders was not getting stuff

spk_0 in a marketplace of things but lifelong learning where you acquired the virtue and all the

spk_0 great characteristics that would allow you to be a citizen, to be informed and thoughtful.

spk_0 So all the authoritarians want you to be superstitious, peasants distracted by conspiracies, right?

spk_0 You know, no, no, reading.

spk_0 You know, Adams himself said, I study war and politics so that my son may study commerce

spk_0 and trade so that my grandson may study music and arts.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 And that's the American dream.

spk_0 That's the pursuit of happiness.

spk_0 I've done all my films in PBS.

spk_0 What's PBS about?

spk_0 Life, long learning.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I made a film about the national parks.

spk_0 What's the national parks?

spk_0 The Declaration of Independence applied to the landscape.

spk_0 Who gets to own the best land?

spk_0 The Kings?

spk_0 Mm-hmm.

spk_0 The Nobleman?

spk_0 Mm-hmm.

spk_0 The Most Rich?

spk_0 Do you see these mansions lining the Grand Canyon or Zion?

spk_0 I'm the Florida folk op Ken.

spk_0 I gotta tell you.

spk_0

spk_0 I'm fired up.

spk_0 Well, this is what we need.

spk_0 So in a period when everybody's sort of like in a fetal position, what the hell are

spk_0 we doing?

spk_0 Is this the end of the American?

spk_0 So you don't know.

spk_0 You know, as a Hessian, so we follow everybody.

spk_0 We call balls and strikes in this, right?

spk_0 Loyalists aren't bad.

spk_0 You understand who they are.

spk_0 They're essentially conservatives.

spk_0 Why would I change?

spk_0 I owe my prosperity, my education, my health, and my land.

spk_0 It comes from this British concept.

spk_0 Why would I want to change it for this radical idea?

spk_0 Democracy meant to them the rule of the mob.

spk_0 Democracy wasn't the object of the revolution.

spk_0 It was a consequence of it.

spk_0 Because you know who did the fighting and dying in the end?

spk_0 It wasn't those landowners.

spk_0 It wasn't the sturdy militiamen that we see in the statues.

spk_0 It was teenagers.

spk_0 It was near the wells.

spk_0 It was fuck-ups.

spk_0 It was second and third sons without a chance of an inheritance.

spk_0 It was recent immigrants from Germany and England.

spk_0 They did the fight.

spk_0 That was the continental army.

spk_0 They won.

spk_0 Suddenly at the end, you go, whoa, we need to actually honor them.

spk_0 As Washington said, it's a standing miracle.

spk_0 So we follow a Hessian wife.

spk_0 We follow Loyalists.

spk_0 We follow 14-year-old patriot who joins John Greenwood from Boston.

spk_0 14-years-old ends up being the dentist to George Washington.

spk_0 Not a mention of wooden teeth in our film.

spk_0 He replaces his teeth with porcelain from a rhinoceros.

spk_0 Just helping you with all this stuff.

spk_0 Where George Washington slept really mattered in New Jersey.

spk_0 Really mattered.

spk_0 That's why those signposts that every man who makes fun of are completely legitimate.

spk_0 The whole survival of the country.

spk_0 There's only one person responsible for the success of our revolution.

spk_0 A lot of people contributed to it.

spk_0 But if he's caught, killed or surrendered, it's all over.

spk_0 And that's George Washington's single most important person.

spk_0 So where he sleeps and what decisions he makes, what bad decisions he makes are super, super

spk_0 important.

spk_0 So we follow this German soldier who's incredibly contemptuous of the whole thing.

spk_0 He's been hired to help supplement the German army, which is British army which has been

spk_0 diminished.

spk_0 And he just is disdainful all the way through.

spk_0 And he's part of the surrender at Yorktown.

spk_0 And he says at the very end, the last word of our Yorktown scene is, who would have thought

spk_0 out of this rabble could come up with people who could defy kings?

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 And that's the story of us, not just the US, but it's the story of us.

spk_0 It's an intimate attempt to try to take the onus off all those paintings and drawings

spk_0 that make you think, look at Lincoln at Antietam in these deer with George McClellan.

spk_0 And you know he's business.

spk_0 And why didn't you follow Lee and all this sort of thing?

spk_0 You could see that.

spk_0 But here you just have these paintings and stuff.

spk_0 So we've added maps.

spk_0 We've filmed reenactors very impressionistically from above and drones.

spk_0 And at night, you know, just their hands trying to warm themselves over a fire at night.

spk_0 And you know, after a while you begin to think, okay, I know what it was like.

spk_0 And if you see enough banets moving at you and you understand muskets and their inaccuracies,

spk_0 you know, beyond a certain number of yards that most of the killing and dying happens

spk_0 with a bayonet, which is not a particularly fun way to go.

spk_0 I'm a Marine in Fought in Fallujah.

spk_0 And one of the things about that, I told him I think the last week or something like that,

spk_0 the most terrifying phrase that you could ever get on the battlefield as fixed bayonets.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 And like you know, we fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, more Afghanistan for 20 years.

spk_0 And the American conscience is so short right now, like the attention span.

spk_0 Like it wasn't even covered in news.

spk_0 It wasn't covered in like presidential debates for a long time.

spk_0 How did they keep focus on what they are doing for that period of time without as much news

spk_0 as you could get now?

spk_0 How did they keep motivated to keep pushing forward in the civilian population supporting that?

spk_0 I've been out on the road for months and months.

spk_0 I haven't had a smarter question.

spk_0 Is that?

spk_0 Let's go.

spk_0 One of the reasons why the American Revolution is successful is that they begin to know each other.

spk_0 Back when their colonies, Benjamin Franklin is the postmaster.

spk_0 He's the only person who really understands all 13 colonies from New Hampshire to Georgia.

spk_0 And he's insisting that we build postroads.

spk_0 Because if you mail a letter to Charleston from Boston, it goes through London.

spk_0 Right?

spk_0 But all of a sudden in the 1760s, as their grievances are beginning to come up, 1763,

spk_0 you can't cross the Appalachians.

spk_0 We need to help you need to help pay for your defense and our depleted treasury.

spk_0 So we're going to tax stamps.

spk_0 No, we're not.

spk_0 We're going to take that back because your protest was so great.

spk_0 And so we kind of get them to back down, but there's lots of activity.

spk_0 And people are developing these committees, of course, on its people are very literate.

spk_0 And they're reading these newspapers.

spk_0 And instead of getting their news, as we get today from self-selected stuff,

spk_0 well, I'm a conservative.

spk_0 I'm only going to listen to this stuff.

spk_0 Well, I'm a liberal.

spk_0 I'm only going to listen to this stuff.

spk_0 They're getting it from everything.

spk_0 My little town in New Hampshire, where I've lived for 46 years,

spk_0 Walpole on the Connecticut River, it had a Walpole Gazette, which was red in Georgia.

spk_0 People waited to get the mail and read it, and they read it out loud.

spk_0 And so when people are talking about liberty and people are complaining that the

spk_0 king is making them a slave, they're out loud at a dinner table.

spk_0 And if you're in the South, mostly, though their slavery is legal in New Hampshire and Massachusetts,

spk_0 it's just not as much.

spk_0 Guess who hears?

spk_0 The Liberty Talk is a historian in our film, Jane Kaminsky says.

spk_0 It's very, very leaky, she goes.

spk_0 So the people here then go, liberty, freedom, I don't have to be a slave.

spk_0 I mean, so that it's deeply significant as another scholar, Maggie Blackhawk says in

spk_0 our film, to the people in the margins.

spk_0 They're hearing these new ideas, remember?

spk_0 This is an argument between British men that suddenly breaks out into big natural laws.

spk_0 All men are created equal.

spk_0 All of a sudden isn't like, why did you not let me decide whether I could have that tax?

spk_0 Or why am I paying for, oh, that's the other thing.

spk_0 The Puritans were Protestants, but they were a Protestant sect.

spk_0 The Protestant Reformation had already happened.

spk_0 Henry VIII had been excommunicated.

spk_0 Protestantism was the religion of England.

spk_0 By the time the colonists come, they weren't about the Catholic.

spk_0 So Catholics enter in because when the British win in the French and Indian War,

spk_0 seven years were, they also get Quebec, which is French speaking and Catholic,

spk_0 and they do stuff that helps keep them in line.

spk_0 And we're all our Protestant sects in the states and its Methodism,

spk_0 and it's Baptist and its Presbyterian and its Episcopal or Anglican.

spk_0 They would have called it congregational in New England.

spk_0 All of these different step-quakers in Pennsylvania, they would go,

spk_0 what? You are privileging the papers in Rome.

spk_0 That's another big anxiety that moves towards war.

spk_0 So all of these grievances build up and build up,

spk_0 but they're talking to one another and they're learning stuff.

spk_0 And they have people like propaganda, like Samuel Adams,

spk_0 by the way, a failure as a brewer, but he's really, really, really good.

spk_0 Jerry Beers.

spk_0 He has a loop, we're going to bomb an engine.

spk_0 He was a failure as a brewer back in the day.

spk_0 Sam Adams today, with his namesake, is that decent brewery?

spk_0 Decent. Anyway, he said his job was to keep his fellow Americans alive to their grievances.

spk_0 So he would cut, you know, suddenly the sons of liberty would despair

spk_0 and because they weren't going to do the Stamp Pack after well,

spk_0 sorry, we're not going to put it in the fact, you win.

spk_0 And then everybody goes, like that.

spk_0 And that happens all the time and people are going, no, no, no.

spk_0 There's another moment when after Lexington and Concord,

spk_0 and after the Battle of Bunker Hill, Washington still has the British surrounded.

spk_0 They can't really, they don't have any big guns.

spk_0 So they can't really bombard and drive them out of Boston.

spk_0 The Boston can go in and out.

spk_0 They got the world's biggest navy.

spk_0 So it's kind of a stalemate for months and months.

spk_0 And then he sends Henry Knox to go get the cannon at Tycon,

spk_0 Daroga, that Ethan Allen, a vigilante from a contested area of both New England and New York,

spk_0 called Vermont, it's not a state.

spk_0 And Benedict Arnold, your friend, comes,

spk_0 classic, don't know.

spk_0 And yet, well, comes, Henry Knox is a bookseller

spk_0 and pulls these cannon all the way across the brookshaws on sleds,

spk_0 brings them to Washington in the British wake up one morning

spk_0 and looking there are guns up in Dorchester Heights and they say, we're out of here.

spk_0 They go to Halifax and then New England.

spk_0 Knox was like a pretty fat guy, too.

spk_0 And that's like-

spk_0 Not just a big, burly guy, yeah.

spk_0 He's a wonderful, wonderful character.

spk_0 And his wife, Lucy, has lost everything in the war.

spk_0 Her father, her mother, her brother, and her sisters remain loyalist.

spk_0 And so she makes a decision to marry someone as a patriot.

spk_0 She loses that entire family, you know?

spk_0 Talk about awkward thanks-givings, you know?

spk_0 It's just, it's tough.

spk_0 So the Brits leave to Halifax.

spk_0 And Massachusetts goes, thank you, General Washington.

spk_0 Please enjoy your retirement.

spk_0 He goes, what are you talking about?

spk_0 I'm going to New York, because that's where he's going next.

spk_0 And in fact, he goes.

spk_0 And because New York is so big and because he's understaffed

spk_0 because he makes a bad decision,

spk_0 he loses the Battle of Long Island and loses New York.

spk_0 I mean, this is as exciting a tale.

spk_0 And I'm not even getting into anything that isn't really not military.

spk_0 But they know what's going on because they're informed.

spk_0 And they're not informed by the news they want to hear.

spk_0 They're informed by the news that is true.

spk_0 And they hear different opinions and takes on that news.

spk_0 And so they're making decisions.

spk_0 People there, I mean, maybe the big question is to say of all of us in this room.

spk_0 You know, who would I have been?

spk_0 Could you have been a loyalist?

spk_0 And the answer is most definitely.

spk_0 Could you have been a patriot?

spk_0 Yeah, that means you're willing to die for this new cause.

spk_0 That's me willing to kill someone else.

spk_0 Maybe your neighbor.

spk_0 One of the most poignant scenes is at the Battle of Bennington,

spk_0 which is a British loss.

spk_0 There is a loyalist that we've been following since episode one.

spk_0 This is now episode four.

spk_0 And he's on a parapet of a redout that's about to fall.

spk_0 And he hears a voice say, Peter's, John Peters is his name,

spk_0 you damn Tory, another name for loyalists.

spk_0 Just as he recognizes a childhood friend from New Haven where he grew up,

spk_0 putting a bayonet into his chest, which is deflected by the bone.

spk_0 And he says, John Peters says at that point, I was obliged to destroy him.

spk_0 Kills a close friend growing up,

spk_0 a cousin of his sisters.

spk_0 I mean, that's our American Revolution too.

spk_0 It's a very violent civil war.

spk_0 And that out of it came the greatest country in the greatest set of ideas

spk_0 and an inspiration for revolutions for more than two centuries that will take place all around the world.

spk_0 Now this might follow up my good question with a poor question.

spk_0 I'd like to say them which trials, for example,

spk_0 when everyone was starting to say, which in order for them to die,

spk_0 essentially, was that common where somebody would say you're a loyalist or you're a patriot?

spk_0 So it happens more patriots on loyalists.

spk_0 The Tarn Feathering, which we make a joke of, which was brutal, which is if you think of

spk_0 Fallujah and Abu Ghraib and the treatment of something compared to what Tarn Feathering is,

spk_0 put on it. The historian Maya Jassinov said, just think about it.

spk_0 Your strip naked, it's self-a-humiliation.

spk_0 Boiling pitch is boiling pitch is put on you.

spk_0 And then the feathers are added as a kind of another humiliation because it'll stick to the pitch.

spk_0 And it's, you know, there's one that we described this guy didn't walk for eight weeks.

spk_0 He was just a custom's guy and he knocked somebody out who was, it had a kid had his sled had

spk_0 bumped into him and he got angry at the kid and then somebody came up to defend him and he knocked

spk_0 the other guy out and then a mob took over. But it's very common in these committees of correspondence and

spk_0 all of the things that was happening town to town in which you would open your neighbor's mail

spk_0 and you would find out their sympathies. And if they were loyalists, that you would be printed

spk_0 in newspaper, you'd be ostracized and whatever. There was really, it's not the sale of

spk_0 French trials. People weren't being put to death in that way. But later on, when things get pretty

spk_0 tough, particularly in New Jersey and very particularly in South Carolina, people are being done.

spk_0 You know, you'd have a battle in the Carolinas where there'd be a British officer leading the

spk_0 loyalist and everybody else is an American killing each other. Is that opening the mail? Do you

spk_0 think that's why it's against the law? No. Yeah, I think a lot of it is less sympathy for the

spk_0 for the loyalists than it is a sense of privilege. By the end, you know, they come, they finish 1783

spk_0 when the Treaty of Paris comes and their and their articles of confederation are nothing. They're

spk_0 toothless as we say in the film. They can't do a thing and the army's upset and there are people

spk_0 who are going to mutiny and run that army and watching it puts it down then resigns this commission

spk_0 just to show that it's not about power, but they have to figure out something. So in 1787,

spk_0 four years after the Treaty of Paris, they meet in Philadelphia again. They pull George Washington

spk_0 out of retirement. Please be the president. And for four months, they hammer out this thing. The

spk_0 Constitution filled with beautiful, they write the code for us. And it's got a beautiful preamble,

spk_0 but the rest of it is just code. And it's how to protect against dictators. It's how to protect

spk_0 against the balance of power, all these sorts of things. And everybody's happy with it. Compromises,

spk_0 some of them incredibly tragic. You know, the Southern states want their enslaved populations

spk_0 counted as three first of three fists of a person, which gives them an advantage in terms of

spk_0 representation in Congress and therefore eventually throughout the first years of the Republic

spk_0 in the White House. But there's no advantage for the people who are counted as three fists of

spk_0 a person. So slavery continues. Americans are losers. Women aren't considered the poor.

spk_0 So there's lots of mistakes. But before it's ratified, everybody also wants the Bill of Rights,

spk_0 which the Bill of Rights has said, look what we've fought for. We need some of these things back about,

spk_0 you know, freedom of the press, right? Freedom to assemble and address your grievances and

spk_0 no establishment of a religion. They've seen that the history of the world is religious conflicts

spk_0 and that when a state favors one religion, it helps exacerbate those things. And so we're not

spk_0 going to do that here. And so that's all the First Amendment. Those are all three things of the

spk_0 First Amendment that I meant. That's the thing that people wanted most of all. And then the Second

spk_0 Amendment, which it gets entirely misunderstood today, which means I can go and buy a tank and blow

spk_0 my neighbors up if I think he's like encroaching my property, which is like we understood what it

spk_0 was like to have a standing army in our midst and that we wanted to be able to protect ourselves

spk_0 and the right to have your arms. Because in many repressive monarchical societies, they had taken

spk_0 away guns. No danger. There are more guns than Americans. You know, there's no danger of that

spk_0 happening. It's just, you know, what the Second Amendment says, a well regulated militia. Every town

spk_0 there was that. So we all through the Ten Amendments is an attempt to say, yep, you've written

spk_0 the system, the code to make this thing work, but the beauty of it has to be what we've just sacrificed.

spk_0 And that is how do we, how do we create this new thing? How do we, we said, as Thomas Payne says,

spk_0 you know, not since the time of Noah, right? Do we have a chance to reset? How do we do this reset

spk_0 and do it right? And that is the declaration, the constitution, the relevant rights. Those are,

spk_0 that's the operating manual for us. You mentioned how the war tore families apart. I know that

spk_0 Ben Franklin's own son was a royalist. He was the royal governor of Virginia. He sort of gotten

spk_0 and Franklin was kind of like half there and half they were spent a lot of time in England,

spk_0 kind of lobbying for the colonies and William got very much involved in society and was very much

spk_0 part of it. For example, when King George was crowned, he was down in the main part of Westminster.

spk_0 And and Franklin was way up. The dad was way up in the balconies. You know, he didn't have that

spk_0 privilege position. So William was the royal governor of Virginia of New Jersey. He was deposed

spk_0 and he eventually was sent to a prison in Connecticut. And and finally his wife is sick and

spk_0 there's entreaties to the Congress to let him go. Franklin doesn't, Benjamin doesn't enter in

spk_0 at all very tough family stuff. The wife dies. Finally, they let him out, presuming he go back to

spk_0 his beloved England. He starts a terrorist organization killing patriots just as there are

spk_0 Patriot organizations. And finally, at the end and and and Benjamin Franklin has essentially taken

spk_0 William's own son as his own and raised him as his grandson. And they have a meeting before

spk_0 Franklin leaves England for good in which he basically says you're giving up all property,

spk_0 including your rights to your son, my my grandson. And William does that. He's trying to make repairs

spk_0 in Franklin is like you're dead to me. I mean, that's what happens when a real civil war happens

spk_0 within a country. And you know, the sisters of one of the generals who dared to say that the

spk_0 southern generals that dared to say Leigh had made a mistake at Gettysburg, which he made a

spk_0 tremendous mistake at Gettysburg, his sisters turned their brothers' portrait face to the wall.

spk_0 You know, when he accepted an ambassador to ship to Turkey in the grant administration, he was

spk_0 that, you know, you know, despised. Was there anybody across your research that you really just

spk_0 became enamored with and you wanted to just keep going and going and going in your research?

spk_0 Yeah, George Washington, because you know, he's deeply flawed. He's rash, he rides out in the battlefield

spk_0 and Italy gets killed. And if he's killed, that's it. It's over for us. So there's no chance we

spk_0 risen up. I don't think there's anybody who had the ability to understand. He was taller than

spk_0 everyone else. He had a reserve. He's unknowable. So I want to keep trying to get to know him.

spk_0 Josh Brolin reads off. You know, we have the best cast list ever.

spk_0 When we got it sent to us, I was like, this is essentially the front rows of the Emmys.

spk_0 Yeah, that's right. That's right. And did he just volunteer?

spk_0 So I hear his voice. I was listening to watching Dune 2 and it followed the sleep and I just

spk_0 were to find the right Washington voice. And I heard this voice was kind of nodding off. And I

spk_0 picked up on an airplane back from the the Rome film festival where we were showing our only

spk_0 non-American film on Leonardo da Vinci. And I went, that's it. And so we called him up. He said,

spk_0 love to and it was great. But we'd already had Tom Hanks and and Merrill Streep and Laura Linney

spk_0 and Sir Kenneth Brannell and Claire Danes and Hugh Dansey and Matthew Reese and Domnell Gleason

spk_0 and Leav Shriver and Ethan and Maya Hawk and Michael Keaton and I'm Paul Jamadi and Matthew Patancan.

spk_0 I mean, it is, I don't think there's a cast in any feature film or TV series that's as good as

spk_0 this reading off camera, help bringing them alive. So George is the one you're going to pursue to

spk_0 and you're never going to know. He's going to be just an enigmatic the way even people in our lives

spk_0 are enigmatic to us and the people closest to us remain mysteries in some way, shape or form.

spk_0 But there's lots of people. We introduce you to all of the boldface names. So you want to know a

spk_0 little bit more about John Adams. You'll get him here. Paul Jamadi is fantastic bringing a lot

spk_0 humorously and very seriously. His wife Abigail read by Claire Danes may be the best writer of the

spk_0 period. They're young African American writers. There's several African American characters.

spk_0 They're Native American characters. And so what we try to do is bring to life literally scores

spk_0 of people that you've never heard of and all of them, they may not have had their painting painted,

spk_0 99.9% did not have their paint portraits painted. That didn't mean they didn't exist or fought or

spk_0 central to the creation of our government. So how do you make them come alive? Sometimes it's a

spk_0 signature when they sign up and enlist. Sometimes it's the death notice. Sometimes it's the

spk_0 gravestone. Sometimes it's Rebecca Tanner lost five sons, you know, a list like that. Sometimes

spk_0 it's a house. Sometimes it's just nothing but you have their words from some recollection that

spk_0 somebody had and you work with scholars and you try to figure out what you can tell and make

spk_0 somebody come alive. We have no picture of John Peters, the loyalist. There's one portrait of

spk_0 Benedict Arnold not so good and we spent most of the years. This took us almost 10 years to make

spk_0 finding another one and we finally found another one that that worked better because of courses.

spk_0 Nothing in the United States. At West Point back in February and we showed a scene to like 1600

spk_0 cadets and a big auditorium and when the word was his name was Benedict Arnold, they booed

spk_0 into the next clip that we were showing, you know, The Fade to Black clip from episode three,

spk_0 and we went there, they were still booing and it turns out they don't serve eggs Benedict at

spk_0 West Point. They served eggs MacArthur because they don't even watch as single because he was

spk_0 going to surrender West Point which Washington considered the most strategic point in all of America.

spk_0 It's going to a gateway to the Brits coming down from Canada and he was degrading it. He had,

spk_0 you know, after being wounded in the same leg at Saratoga, he's made the military governor of

spk_0 Pennsylvania when the Brits evacuated Philadelphia and he stays in the same house as the loyalist guy

spk_0 who used to run it. He's hanging out with loyalists. He falls in love with the loyalists and then

spk_0 there's a British spy. He's introduced to a guy named Major John Andre and over the next many

spk_0 months they hatch up this plan and it's in code. We found the stuff. We decoded this. I mean, people

spk_0 have decoded it and Andre got caught in hung and Benedict Arnold got away and for a while was sent

spk_0 in charge of a loyalist legion of troops in Virginia where he would just wreaked havoc and his

spk_0 group was called the American Legion. You cannot make this up and finally he gets pulled out

spk_0 and goes to England and we just you lose the trail because, you know, he's married to

spk_0 John Andre. Now is a big time rebrand. Oh, I mean, so painful to Washington to lose this who's

spk_0 painful to the entire country and people would talk about Nathaniel Gates would say stuff like

spk_0 this is probably the second best general after Washington. Nathaniel Gates says, you know,

spk_0 what, you know, if we find his leg, we'll give it a proper military burial and everything else.

spk_0 What a legendary line. We wanted to ask you that too. We were talking about it yesterday

spk_0 because there is so many glowing quotes like I've given you a democracy if you can keep it.

spk_0 Yeah, the Republic, if you can keep it, that's Benjamin Franklin again.

spk_0 So is there any of those quotes that you came across where it's just absolutely fluff that the

spk_0 quotes didn't exist? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so thank you. That's a thing. First of all, you will never

spk_0 hear, as I said, wooden teeth. You will not hear the name Betsy Ross. We do not know who made the

spk_0 first flag. You won't hear, don't fire until you see the lights of their eyes that supposedly the

spk_0 admonition to Patriots as the British are marching three attacks, the third of which is finally

spk_0 overwhelmed the American guns we've run out of ammunition. But it's a peric victory for the

spk_0 the Brits. They have 40% casualties and they want to have 40% casualties until 1916 and the sum

spk_0 in the one of the worst battles of World War One. That's how bad a victory it was for the British

spk_0 at Bunkers Hill, which of course takes place on Breeds Hill. Bunkers Hill is part of it and back

spk_0 and on the American left flank and not as filled with the action. But it became known as that.

spk_0 There's a spy caught, an American spy, you know, one of the big spies that Washington set up a

spk_0 special, like it would be sort of the quimba of the seals or, you know, those green braze special

spk_0 forces, but spies. After the British takeover in New York a couple days later, there's a suspicious

spk_0 fire which everyone is certain is Washington's doing. He's left it and has he sent somebody back

spk_0 in to burn it down. He applied to Congress for the ability to do that. They said no, don't burn it

spk_0 down. Somebody did and as some good fellow is what Washington referred to him. So you don't know

spk_0 whether it happened, but when they caught a spy that was so angry, his name was Nathan Hale.

spk_0 And British officer just noted that he went to his death with great composure and there was no

spk_0 utterance of irregret that I have but one life to live from. So as you dig deep, a lot of the

spk_0 tropes fall away, but what gets replaced are much more interesting facts like that charge up,

spk_0 you know, as they they're holding their ammunition first 90 and then it's then it's 50 and then

spk_0 it's, you know, 30 yards because they're running out of ammunition. And then when you understand

spk_0 the purek victory it is for the Brits and that's statistic that they're not going to have 40%

spk_0 casualties until the first day of the summit, 1916. Then you realize, oh wait, this isn't my

spk_0 grade school American revolution. This is really a tough battle. And there are some battles out

spk_0 in Western New York where it's engaging many native tribes, some like the United is fighting us,

spk_0 some like the Seneca's and the Mohawk's fighting for the Brits. And the deaths are so numerous

spk_0 in the Battle of Eurasian. For example, that the Native Americans just pack up and leave because

spk_0 they've never experienced this kind of death and they want time to grieve. And so we sort of

spk_0 extend to them as Jefferson says in the declaration, the merciless Indian savages at our border.

spk_0 But you begin to wonder, it's war is, I mean, I mean, just that smell alone had to be

spk_0 horrific because like if you've never been around it the way when you open up somebody,

spk_0 just one, it takes the whole area and you can smell it. I can't imagine what 40%

spk_0 casualty rate at that time with the size of the projectiles that would go through would make.

spk_0 And you know, what you find is from recent wars, we have people who survive with unbelievable

spk_0 loss of limbs three or four, sometimes limbs, you're not finding that in the revolution. People are

spk_0 dying, right? You're not finding that in the, in the, you might find a leg or somebody survives the

spk_0 one quarter of one fifth or one quarter of the state budget of Mississippi in 1866 year after the war

spk_0 went to artificial limbs. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, it's not fun and we were pushing a

spk_0 Marine in our Vietnam series to sort of talk about what he'd done. He had a chest full of metals,

spk_0 like a couple of actions short of a congressional metal of honor. And he, he just says, you know,

spk_0 he stops us, stop kind of pushing me into telling you about this stuff. He says it's the history of

spk_0 the world that gave that title to our, our eighth episode of the Vietnam War. Like this is what

spk_0 human beings do. And you just wish we could find some way to go from the dispute to the negotiation.

spk_0 But most of the time there was a, there was a, a history couple, Will and Ariel Durant,

spk_0 a man and wife who'd spent their life American history writing books about it, very well known.

spk_0 And they determined that it was something like 38 years in all of recorded history where there

spk_0 hadn't been a war. I am sure they missed it. Yeah. You know, and I'm sure there was some

spk_0 place going on where news never read or there was not a record where you could say, because this is

spk_0 what we do. And I think I've studied war and I know you've participated in it. I think in order to

spk_0 be like the canaries in the coal mine, this, this, this doesn't work. You know, sometimes in World

spk_0 War II, our first episode is called a necessary war. There's no good war. We call the second

spk_0 world war, which killed 60 million human beings a good war. Yeah. Because I guess we know why,

spk_0 because after Korea and more so Vietnam where there was division and questions about it,

spk_0 there were no questions about it. So one of an appylet that we interviewed said, you know,

spk_0 it wasn't a good war, but it was a necessary war in order to, and you have to then assume that

spk_0 there are some necessary wars. But then you can't just keep slapping that label on everything in

spk_0 order to make the first human response to kill another human being. I mean, this is you study war

spk_0 in order to figure out and to remind people how bad it is. Like here, can I tell you my, I made a

spk_0 film on the Civil War that came out in in September exactly 35 years ago, September of 1990.

spk_0 In early August of 1990, Saddam. It messed up that that was 35 years ago. Saddam who

spk_0 saying invaded Kuwait. And Americans who hadn't been in any struggle for a super long time were

spk_0 really super excited to go to war again, right? We're building it, massing our forces and something

spk_0 like 85% of people wanted to go to war. And after the Civil War series came out in late September,

spk_0 that number dropped by 25%. And that was just black and white photographs of Americans killing

spk_0 other Americans. But enough to go, oh yeah, this is what happens in war. There's, it isn't an

spk_0 abstract thing, which we've certainly abstract the American Revolution. And you can't do that.

spk_0 You have to say it's as bad as anything and people behave with all of the

spk_0 venality and all the virtue, all the greed and all of the generosity that they ever have.

spk_0 But let's not like, you know, candy, sugar coated. This is Sherman said it, War is Hell.

spk_0 He actually said, War is all hell. And that's a really good thing. And I think it's really important.

spk_0 And I consider it the best review of our film. We had a lot of nice reviews about the Civil

spk_0 War series. But the best one was that number of people enthusiastic to go to war dropped by 25%.

spk_0 Like, okay, could we just take a breath? And of course, the air war doesn't start until January,

spk_0 it lasts, you know, whatever, however long it lasts. And then that first Gulf War is over.

spk_0 But you realize that this question in us, there is something. As one of our Vietnam vets,

spk_0 another Marine Karl Marlantes, who's written beautifully about this in a novel about his experiences

spk_0 about the war. He said, you know, we're not the dominant species on the planet because we're nice.

spk_0 I guess I have one question and it kind of glorifies war in a way. But if you had to choose one colony

spk_0 that had the best troops during the Revolutionary War, what would you say?

spk_0 I don't think you could say it. The militia, there's a wonderful story. Can I give you the

spk_0 battle of Calpans? Because it's so interesting. Nathaniel Gates has run away. He's the supposed

spk_0 hero of Saratoga, the real hero. He's been a Dict Arnold. He's been given command of the Southern

spk_0 Army. The second the firing starts at the Battle of Camden. He races 150 miles into North Carolina

spk_0 and his career's over. Let me just first shot. He's gone. It is given to Nathaniel Green and to

spk_0 Daniel Morgan, who's a crusty Virginia, and who's been fighting everywhere.

spk_0 Even though he shouldn't do this, Green divides his forces, puts Morgan sort of in a western branch

spk_0 that's harassing some stuff in South Carolina. He's in Eastern and basically they take the

spk_0 bait, the bridge take the base, and Cornwallis sense Terrelton is Calvary guy to a place.

spk_0 Green's hoping to get back across. I think it's called the Broad River, but he can't. He

spk_0 realizes they're going to catch up to him. He's going to make his fight at a place called Calpans,

spk_0 which is where people bringing their cattle to market grays. It's no place. It's on the way to

spk_0 Camden. He tells his militia who are notoriously unreliable. They leave to go home to plant. They get

spk_0 scared earlier. They've got family at home. He says to his first line. He's going to put his first

spk_0 line of militia. He says, I want you to fire two shots. Often they don't fire any shots. They run

spk_0 or they find that the couple shots, nothing's fired. It's just like promise me all night, the night

spk_0 before it. Promise me two shots and then you run behind the lines. Second line militia, you do the

spk_0 same thing. Two shots and you do it. The third line, so Terrelton is like, they're folding just like

spk_0 we knew they would, but they did take a toll. Those two shots on both lines and then they run. It goes

spk_0 we got him and he races up over the top of the hill and there's the third line, the Continentals.

spk_0 Again, teenagers, Nerdy Wells, Disreputable Swords, all this sort of stuff, recent immigrants,

spk_0 and they are tough and they give him a licking and he Terrelton loses a huge portion of his army.

spk_0 And it is the story of the strategy in the south. And so I can't say it's any one group.

spk_0 Washington's always hoping his Continentals are there, but I can tell you about the Marylanders on

spk_0 the right of the American front in the battle of Long Island that hold the line and keep the

spk_0 Brits from completely destroying the retreating American army for so long, 14 charges. And I think

spk_0 out of 400, like only 14 make it back to the American lines, unheard, unwounded, uncaptured, undead.

spk_0 It is, there's heroics at every step of the way in a military sense.

spk_0 Each colony played their part in this war. That's correct. That's correct. Then people from Delaware

spk_0 and Georgia, some of the least populated country, Virginia and Massachusetts and Pennsylvania and

spk_0 New York are the most populous and they're there. And so we made a point as we went through

spk_0 the artelling of these stories, how we combine the narrative with all the other dynamics that are

spk_0 going on, the diplomacy, the worldwide stuff, the Native American stories, the social changes that

spk_0 are taking place, the role of women, 50% of the population, not included in any of these documents,

spk_0 but central. The women keep the resistance alive in the years leading up to Lexington and

spk_0 Concord and they're there at every battle. They're women attached to all the armies. At first,

spk_0 at first Washington is and pleased at having to feed the women and an indeterminate number of kids,

spk_0 children, but they're there. One of my favorite shots is after the battle of Monmouth, we just have

spk_0 pictures of just the feet of women and children going back over the battlefield because they're the

spk_0 first ones to go into a battlefield when the fighting stopped. That's for us. Collect the dead.

spk_0 For the kids. Can you imagine? Maybe find your dad. Whatever it is. I mean, it's,

spk_0 this is, as our name was Corporal Tommy Valley, still live a good friend of ours. When he said

spk_0 this is the history of the world, I am very sorry to report that this is the history of the world.

spk_0 And what can we do about it? That ought to be the question. And I think by studying war, it helps

spk_0 you take the romanticism off and no war that we've been involved in has been more romanticized

spk_0 than the American Revolution. Yeah, like have you ever been to the Marine Corps Museum?

spk_0 Yes. And I feel like one of the more shocking moments for me that that's eye opening because

spk_0 you hear about certain battles that have tens of thousands of people that died. And there's a spot

spk_0 in the Marine Corps Museum where you can go to the Battle of Iwojima. Yeah. And they have the

spk_0 Iwo Globe and Anchors and the Navy Cormin seals that are lining the wall. And when you look at that

spk_0 and somebody, my boss at the time was like, in this battle alone, you could fill up everybody

spk_0 in Cowboy Stadium. That's how many people died. Or we're wounded. Yeah. It's, you know,

spk_0 they're in the Pacific in World War II. There are battles on islands just specs in the Pacific

spk_0 that didn't either. There was a Japanese garrison and somebody said, let's just take it and there

spk_0 was no reason to. So they were just, as somebody said, two scorpions in a bottle. The casualties are

spk_0 completely unnecessary. The main army can just bypass and head towards Japan and starve these people

spk_0 out. You can leave some troops just to make sure they do not resupply and either the surrender or

spk_0 they die, but you don't kill lots of Americans fighting them to the death on a piece. I mean,

spk_0 this was an episode that we called Fubar. And you certainly know. Fucked up beyond all recognition.

spk_0 What Fubar means? There's snaffing. No situation normal. All fucked up. And then there's Fubar,

spk_0 fucked up beyond all recognition. And that's what we call our fifth episode of the World War II

spk_0 because it's just, it's just the horrible meat grinding and the decisions that are made and the

spk_0 mistakes that are made that gets lots of people killed unnecessarily. It's bad. But Iwo Jima is just

spk_0 and Yokohama. I mean, these are Okinawa are the ones that are just, so. And then you think,

spk_0 well, if we invade the mainland, they're estimated. I mean, 292 or 300,000 American deaths in

spk_0 World War II. If you add all the accidents and the missing, it goes up to 408. They're imagining

spk_0 at least that many just dead in the invasion of Japan and a couple million casualties. And that

spk_0 obviously then means five or six million Japanese. They're going to be killed if you go through

spk_0 with an invasion. I mean, it's the arithmetic is impossible. And in fact, one of the scariest things

spk_0 I've ever heard came out of the mouth of somebody who I admire almost more than anyone else in American

spk_0 history. And that's Abraham Lincoln. In the spring of 63, when he loses the battle of Chancellor's

spk_0 Phil and Stolen Objection is instrumental in that defeat. He's got another passive, sort of

spk_0 anxious general amongst a whole bunch of Union generals that are getting replaced and replaced,

spk_0 including McClellan and all the names, you know, McDowell and Mead and all of that stuff. He says,

spk_0 this war will come to an end when I find a general who understands the arithmetic.

spk_0 The arithmetic is the ability to send dead bodies north because you've gained ground. And he

spk_0 found that general. He wins the battle of Gettysburg the next month with Mead. But he finds that

spk_0 general in the fall from his successes out west. His name is Ulysses S. Grant. And he loses all spring

spk_0 of 64. He loses in the wilderness. He loses at Spots of Anya. He loses at Cold Harbor. He settles

spk_0 into a World War I like trench warfare outside of Petersburg. And they run out of, they run out of

spk_0 burial spaces in Washington, D.C. and the quartermaster general, Malcolmery Meggs, loses a son and

spk_0 doesn't have any place to bury him. And he's so angry. He looks up on the hill and he says,

spk_0 bury them in Lee's front yard, meaning he'll never be able to come back here. And what is that land?

spk_0 That is the most hallowed ground of our Republic. It's called the Carlington National Cemetery.

spk_0 And it's because we ran out of spots and it's because the arithmetic, he lost at wilderness.

spk_0 He lost at Spots of Anya. He lost at Cold Harbor and he kept moving.

spk_0 Because the North had so many more men.

spk_0 Had so many more men. And numerical advantage to begin with. They didn't have superior generals.

spk_0 And then they had the industrial might behind it. And Grant just understood it was going to be

spk_0 me grinding to the end. And so there was 2,000 casualties a day. That's dead and wounded.

spk_0 Coming back to the nation's capital to be dispersed, to be have loved ones come and claim them,

spk_0 or to take them home to nurse them, or to watch them die. Well Whitman was a nurse in one of those

spk_0 hospitals and it's so poignant what his descriptions were of people. He'd have a soldier say,

spk_0 now fix me. And that meant put my hands together and tie my socks together so that I am upright

spk_0 because I'm about to die. It wasn't like, cure me, heal me, heal me. It's now fix me for death.

spk_0 Geez. My last question for you, I know you got to heart out. So you've talked about Washington.

spk_0 You talked about how your respect for Abraham Lincoln. If I could set you up to go to a nice little

spk_0 cigar spot or you can have a whiskey lounge and you could bring in any person from American history

spk_0 that you just want to talk to for two hours, who would that be? Lewis Armstrong, the jazz thing.

spk_0 He did. I mean, this is the city. Chicago's the city. He came up from New Orleans where it was

spk_0 invented and it began to spread the news. And I say that not because I wouldn't jump at the chance

spk_0 to try to figure out knock on the door of Washington and say, who's in there really? Who are you?

spk_0 Really? He'd never give it away. The historian Jo Ellis says, maybe Martha got in, maybe Hamilton

spk_0 got in, maybe Lafayette got in, but not too many other people got into that. Lincoln would be of course

spk_0 important. This is his home state. After Washington, he is the most important president. And you definitely

spk_0 want to be with him. But you also want to remember that we spend a lot of our time focusing on these

spk_0 dramatic political military narratives to understandably. But sometimes the creativity is an important

spk_0 part. Jazz is the art form that is recognized around the world as the thing we've contributed.

spk_0 He's the most important person in music. I didn't say jazz in the 20th century. He is to music. I

spk_0 didn't say jazz. What Einstein is to physics, what the right brothers are to travel. What Freud is

spk_0 to medicine? I mean, it is transcendent. He takes this ensemble music and turns it into a soloist

spk_0 art. He comes up, he after he leaves Chicago, he goes to New York, Duke Ellington sees him and he

spk_0 goes, I want him on every instrument. And he spent his whole life the next 40 or 50 years

spk_0 creating an orchestra, the Duke Ellington orchestra that had somebody that had not virtuosity,

spk_0 just virtuosity, but personality in each thing. And so he took this soloist art, turned it into

spk_0 ensemble, invented what is called modern time, playing before or after a note, what everyone else

spk_0 called swing. And in the early days of swing, it was called orchestrated Armstrong. A guy was

spk_0 asked what he needs out during the depression when you're on the road more than 300 days. He said

spk_0 toothpaste in a picture of Lewis Armstrong. And then he did the same for American singing. So if we

spk_0 holiday an elephant's Gerald and said who's the most influential person in singing, they take this

spk_0 raspy guy with a handkerchief and say pops, not Satchmo, that was one thing, but pops was his

spk_0 nickname. And he's just amazing. And when we made our series on jazz, no one agreed on anything.

spk_0 They'd actually get into almost fist fights in disagreements over that. But all of them said,

spk_0 Armstrong was a gift from God or an angel. And I once asked this woman who, for lack of a better

spk_0 word, was a spiritualist. I said, everybody disagrees on everything on this film I work on,

spk_0 except they say that Lewis Armstrong is a gift from God or an angel. And she just closed her

spk_0 eyes and said, biggest wings I've ever seen. So there's a part of me that says, we can talk about

spk_0 death and dying. I can manipulate the stuff, the soul shaker and say, this is what,

spk_0 you know, Daniel Morgan did at CalPans, or this is why the Battle of Long Island, this is the

spk_0 mistake, the tactical mistake of leaving the left flank exposed that Washington made there. And

spk_0 then he repeated the same effect with his right flank at Brandywine. I can do all of that stuff,

spk_0 and it's great. We can talk about it. But at the end of the day, don't you want something that's

spk_0 transcendent? Don't you want it where one in one equals three? Don't you want to have the whole

spk_0 greater than the sum of the parts, right? And that difference is in art, it's in love, it's in

spk_0 music, it's in... I mean, your face lit up as soon as you said Lewis Armstrong, yeah, like your

spk_0 face lit up, it was something that you could tell that you just... Yeah, yeah. So it's just, it's

spk_0 important. It's also good to throw a curveball now and then to everybody, like to just say, yeah,

spk_0 Washington, yeah, Lincoln, of course, FDR. You know, these are the central political figures of

spk_0 the entire history. Without them, we're not who we are. And then, but also realize that it may

spk_0 just come from somebody else. It could be... It may come from a carpenter from Bethlehem.

spk_0 Right? Yeah. Yeah. It may be somebody else. And because this podcast is called Drop a Pin,

spk_0 you can give in a bridge dancer here, but if you had to drop a pin in one location during the

spk_0 Revolutionary War, which place would you say was the most pivotal or a place that kind of interests

spk_0 you the most? Well, the most pivotal for the whole scope of things would be the Battle of Saratoga.

spk_0 We're Washington's not at, but I'd sort of want to be a place where he was to understand

spk_0 at Long Island, maybe, you know, in places where my children and my grandchildren live in Brooklyn,

spk_0 that they pass over Gawana, Bedford, you know, Jamaica, all of these places you hear every day,

spk_0 Kings Highway, you know, all of this stuff is like farmland and was, you know, that what it was

spk_0 like when he realized the just glaring error made, or maybe just what it was like at Yorktown,

spk_0 when, you know, Cornwallis is too humiliated to come out. So he sends his second-in command.

spk_0 He told everybody don't even look at the Americans. They're not worthy of our respect only the French,

spk_0 right? And so Charles O'Hara, the second-in-command, hands the sword, tries to hand to surrender to

spk_0 Roche-en-Baud, the French general, and he says, I am subordinate to the Americans, tries to handle it

spk_0 to hand it to Washington, and Washington says, and sends them to his second-to-command, Benjamin

spk_0 Lincoln, because he's hated the way when Charleston falls, Benjamin Lincoln's army is humiliated,

spk_0 and not treated like an army, but treated like rebels and cast aside. So he makes Charles O'Hara

spk_0 a surrender to Benjamin Lincoln. I want to be there because it's a British historian.

spk_0 British historian says in our film, Stephen Conway, the ultimate humiliation, not only to surrender,

spk_0 but to surrender to the second-in-command, you know? And I just the whole thing, that's where that

spk_0 foot soldier, Johann Evold, is saying who's been contemptuous up to this moment says,

spk_0 who would have thought a hundred years ago that out of this multitude of rabble could come a

spk_0 people who could defy kings? That's you, me, you, you, you, you, that's us. And that's what I hope

spk_0 the series does. It puts the us back in the U.S. What a way to end the show. My God, there's a reason

spk_0 why he's the best. Can we appreciate your time? It's great to be with you guys. Great,

spk_0 really, really great. Thank you so much for your great questions, too. You know, you know,

spk_0 mostly it's so Ken, why the revolution and why now? And you're going, okay, I just worked 10

spk_0 years. Why now? Like I timed it to come in. Yeah. Just at this moment, we for sure. For like,

spk_0 you know, the happy accidents of us taking time and it's all peeing us is, you know, great gift to

spk_0 us is the ability to spend a decade trying to get it right. Yeah. In the future, would you ever do

spk_0 a documentary on a topic? We ended it perfect. Don't. No, we're done. I didn't know. I just

spk_0 want to know if you'll ever do a non-American history topic. We'll ask them after. Okay.

spk_0 Perfect way to spot, Ken. Thank you so much. Boop. Mike drop.

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spk_0 this podcast. Let's hop back into the show. I mean, I've done tons of interviews over the time

spk_0 that I've been podcasting. And that was a highlight for me, for sure. Yes. I've talked to metal

spk_0 of honor recipients, different people in like Congress and secretaries and all kinds of stuff,

spk_0 but Ken Burns, I've never been more fascinating to sit across a couch and listening to him talk.

spk_0 Oh, dude. Yeah. I mean, like we didn't really have to say much during that interview.

spk_0 Those are the best kind where you're like, uh, so tell us about George Washington.

spk_0 Yeah. He's like, well, here we go. Yeah. There was so much stuff I didn't know. Like I had no idea

spk_0 about the Benjamin Franklin Sun thing. Oh, yeah. Or even I guess I knew it, but I never really

spk_0 thought about it that in depth. And I've been thinking about it a lot. Like having different

spk_0 fractions in your own house. Like the Civil War, it was the South versus the North. There wasn't

spk_0 a whole lot of infighting between families for the most part. I think there actually was, though,

spk_0 too. Ulysses S Grant, his dad was a big Confederacy guy. Okay. Yeah. But not nearly as much as what's

spk_0 going on here. Like there was distinct lines. Like there was the North versus the South.

spk_0 The American Revolution, it was all over the place. And there was loyalists and patriots on both

spk_0 sides everywhere. Yeah. Each, each community there, you would have like royalists. Because a lot of

spk_0 people are like, dude, I don't know if I want to get wrapped up in this war because there is not a

spk_0 strong chance we're going to win this. We're going against the strongest empire in the world. Yeah.

spk_0 It's probably easier, like easier to just like lay low and not get involved. How many do you think

spk_0 we're like Finstraddlers? They're just like, this is none of my business. I just hope everybody has

spk_0 a good time. Yeah. A lot of people were like, I kind of just want to wait and see which way this war's

spk_0 going before I pick a side. And we didn't get to talk about this on the pod. I think Ken Burns went

spk_0 on a show called Finding Your Roots. And he found out that like if you trace his ancestors back

spk_0 far enough, he was related to some royalists. And I think I unfortunately may have been related

spk_0 to some royalists because my mom was always like, yeah, our family came over on the Mayflower.

spk_0 But then at some point they moved to Nova Scotia. And I think that's what a lot of the royalists

spk_0 did after the war because you weren't welcoming the US anymore. So you had to move to Canada or move

spk_0 to the Caribbean. Yeah. I could tell that you were rock hard when Ken Burns was like, that's one of

spk_0 the best questions I have ever heard. That was fucking buzzing. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of props on that. Thank

spk_0 you. Happy for you. I like your like when he said that. He just go, let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

spk_0 I did. I mean, I knew he was not going to give me a straight up answer when I was like, which

spk_0 colony had the best troops? Like he's an American guy. He wasn't going to single out just one colony.

spk_0 Those fuckers in Georgia stunk. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, well, you wouldn't want to go to battle

spk_0 with the folks from Georgia. No, no, he was not going to say that. So he gave props to every colony.

spk_0 There is like when you watch his documentary, you will see that there's so much about the Revolutionary

spk_0 War that you just don't know about. I mean, something that I was shocked to learn because here in

spk_0 America, we love to give the French ship or like, dude, we bailed you guys out of World War Two.

spk_0 Well, the French also bailed us out of the Revolutionary War. There is no America without the French.

spk_0 Yeah. Without the free like we did not have a navy at all. And France was just they sent over

spk_0 tons of big ships and that was blue. Look what's happening. Yeah. America. And the American troops

spk_0 and some French troops, we cornered the British in Yorktown. But if it wasn't for the French navy,

spk_0 they could have just left. But the French navy had them like cornered. Yeah. Blockaded by sea

spk_0 because they fought a big naval battle against the British and won. So they had no escape and they

spk_0 were forced to surrender. Another little fun fact about the Revolutionary War. Have you ever heard of

spk_0 New Ireland? No. Yeah. It was so like the British weren't making a lot of headway. So they were like,

spk_0 let's just set up shop up in Maine. And so they invaded Maine and set up the colony of New Ireland.

spk_0 And it was just like a British stronghold in the war up in Maine. That was going to become its

spk_0 own colony. But then they lost the war and had to evacuate. Mains are bigger player in a lot of

spk_0 wars than people realize. Oh yeah. Like even War War Two. Like what? Like there was fortresses

spk_0 and shit built up there. Yeah. I mean, I guess like Maine has got to be one of the closest,

spk_0 yeah, it's like the closest part of America to Europe. And Africa. What? Yeah. Maine is

spk_0 there's no state closer to Africa than Maine. That's a fun fact. Have you asked that on your

spk_0 and you're around the office, Fitz? I did not know that because based on how it shaped,

spk_0 it's the closest to Africa. I was also seeing that after the war because a lot of like slaves they

spk_0 teamed up with the British because the British were like, if you have fight for us,

spk_0 will grant you your freedom. And then after the British lost the war, a lot of them left America.

spk_0 And I think went to Sierra Leone and helped like establish Sierra Leone as a country.

spk_0 So there's all these crazy facts that you'll learn by watching Ken Burns documentary.

spk_0 But something we want to do on this podcast is just go around the office and ask some of our

spk_0 co-workers what they know about the Revolutionary War. We haven't heard it yet. We're recording this

spk_0 intro before we've even heard them say it. I am so excited to hear what they have to say. Yeah.

spk_0 I can't imagine it's going to be much. Yeah. I mean, how much did you know, I guess?

spk_0 I thought when we going in, I was like, I'm not like a historian or anything, but I thought I had

spk_0 a decent grasp of what was happening when he was talking. I was like, I might be stupid.

spk_0 When he was talking, he's just insanely smart. So he could make anyone feel a little unformed.

spk_0 You know, like even time period, how long the time that it took, like that I didn't realize that

spk_0 it was almost a decade. Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. I mean, as like Dana Beers was saying,

spk_0 he was just like, well, yeah, then Washington, Krause of Delaware and boom, that's the war.

spk_0 But no, there was another like five years of war after that, maybe six or seven.

spk_0 But it is hard doing capsule eight, like eight and a half years. And I mean, just hearing him

spk_0 talking the podcast, that was only an hour and 15 minutes without the visual aids and everything

spk_0 that are kind of into his documentary. Once you watch that full thing, which we've, we got a early

spk_0 copy, you walk away knowing so much more. And I think it's cool because we were saying that only

spk_0 like dudes in their 30s would, would maybe know who Ken Burns is. But that's not the case. We got

spk_0 white boy Rick in the office. He's like 23 or 24. He's a big Ken Burns guy. I, you know,

spk_0 hopefully this podcast helps introduce a younger crowd to the, the genius of Ken Burns.

spk_0 Kate was a, he is a huge Ken Burns guy. And Shane Gillis said that Ken Burns is female

spk_0 kryptonite. If, if he's like, if you're ever with a chick and want to put her to bed, just try to

spk_0 Ken Burns documentary. But apparently that's not the case of, if, if, if Kate's a big fan. So,

spk_0 yeah, even our female listeners give Ken Burns a chance. You won't be disappointed.

spk_0 Mm-hmm. All right. Let's get into it with our co-workers and see just how dumb they are.

spk_0 Okay, Hannah, very simple question today. Tell us everything you know about the Revolutionary War.

spk_0 Oh, I was hoping that we were going to talk about the Revolutionary War in France.

spk_0 Like the French Revolution, I mean. Oh, no. That's what I was excited about.

spk_0 No wrong podcast. Yeah, I want to talk, talk Les Mises with the boys. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

spk_0 Fuck. Okay. So, I, you know what? I, you know what? Do you know what? I'm having less fun.

spk_0 Who it was against? Like, like, who are the two sides of the Revolutionary War?

spk_0 Yes, it's also called the Independence War. Is it not just like becoming America?

spk_0 It is. It is. Yeah, it's how we became America. Yeah, so the British, yeah,

spk_0 we know. And the Americans. Yeah. Right. So we had those two big, big, big parties as in

spk_0 and by not parties like political, I mean, like, yeah, yeah. Um, fucking, you know, we, we loved,

spk_0 we loved the idea of freedom. And men, lots of freedoms that we have that we want to fight for.

spk_0 So we'd be like, the hell we don't want to get to you at all. The hell true. And you know why?

spk_0 Because that was the Tee Paa. And you'd be like, oh my gosh, Tee Paa, that sounds so nice.

spk_0 Wrong. Fuck it. So wrong. Like, I don't want this at all because of the taxes that they put on the

spk_0 T's. We don't want no taxes. This is America. We don't want no damn taxes. And we say that now,

spk_0 we got a lot of taxes. Yeah. But it's from Americans and not parliament. So it makes it better.

spk_0 You bring up a really good point. So yeah, like, one of the reasons we thought the war was

spk_0 because of taxes, after we won the war and became our own country, I think taxes went way up

spk_0 across the board. Well, we wanted them in our own special way. Yeah. Yeah. At least now we were

spk_0 being taxed by our own country. And people had more say in where those taxes went to as opposed

spk_0 to just sending the money like across the Atlantic Ocean back to Britain. You don't know what they're

spk_0 going to use that tax money on. We're to NATO where we spend more money than the rest of the

spk_0 countries combined. Okay. It's a lot. Yeah. So what was it taxes? They didn't want kings. Yeah,

spk_0 no kings. Yeah. No kings. Tyrant King George III. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's what I was thinking.

spk_0 King George III, I learned he never left the UK. I don't think I wouldn't either if I was king.

spk_0 If you're a kid, but when you're king of the British Empire, you got like domains all over the world,

spk_0 I would want to see him. I wouldn't talk him. Okay. Yeah. So King George III. I mean, think about

spk_0 how long you got to go on a boat, dude. It's not like you're hopping. Like it's not Air Force One

spk_0 that you could take a little sleeping nap with some nighttime tea that you didn't pay taxes on. Yeah.

spk_0 Dude, you had to take a three month voyage. It is insane. How long it took. I think that's part of

spk_0 the reason the British lost, too. They just like it took three months to get news back and forth

spk_0 across the Atlantic. Six. Yeah. Yeah. You had to go. That's probably why it landed. That's the king.

spk_0 What happened? And then the king would be like, okay, well, maybe you should do this.

spk_0 And then another three months. And at that point, it's too late. Let me sleep on it, sir. You

spk_0 do not have time. Yeah. We got to give them three months. Yeah. They're running out of bullets.

spk_0 The muskets are in bad shape. And well, in that case, thank God for Paul Revere.

spk_0 Paul Revere. Yeah. We didn't have a chance to talk about Paul Revere with Ken Burns, but great point.

spk_0 Great guy. You know, we have modern day Paul Revere's. And that's the people in group chats that

spk_0 want to break the news first. It's like a new term now. Paul Revere is so back. It's like,

spk_0 you know, back of the week, Paul Revere. Yeah, for real. Because it's like, when Taylor Swift got

spk_0 engaged, you have your Paul Revere of the like group chat. I did that yesterday with Jane Goodall.

spk_0 Oh, yeah. Yeah. The people in my group chat were going nuts. They're like the monkey lady.

spk_0 Wait, good one. What happened with what happened with Jane Goodall? Dead stuff. Something bad. She just

spk_0 died. Yeah. Yesterday. I would have bet 15 years ago. She died. Okay. But she was 91 years old.

spk_0 On a speaking tour, too. She died while she was on a speech. She was just recently here in Chicago.

spk_0 Well with it at 91 years old, Mishima Kano could never. Yeah. That's crazy. So you know a little

spk_0 bit about like why the war started and everything. Do you know anything about what happened during the war?

spk_0 Oh battles and fights. That's right. Yep. And death. And she's getting emotional. I just

spk_0 fucking love war's hell. Who do you power rank your founding father? No, let's do Mary Fuck kill.

spk_0 The founding father. Can I like Mary Fuck kill the like Mount Rushmore? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to

spk_0 folks on the Mount Rushmore. Okay. Yes. Actually, I'm going to Mary Lincoln Illinois guy. We've got a

spk_0 lot in common. We could talk about it. Who we've got Jefferson, right? Jefferson's on there.

spk_0 Roosevelt Roosevelt. I'm going to fuck. Okay. I get great choice. Yeah. Especially after he got done

spk_0 like pre log cutting. He had asthma. So I think that would be rough. Okay. I'll do the work. I'll do

spk_0 I feel comfortable like killing. I feel like I can't say that. No, I feel comfortable not

spk_0 fucking or marrying Washington or Jefferson. Wow. I feel comfortable marrying Lincoln and Fucking

spk_0 Roosevelt I think. So who'd you kill though? Like oh, one of like just out and I can be front. I don't

spk_0 know. Maybe maybe Washington. I think we have a different style. Oh my god. The mouth situation.

spk_0 I do. And we talk about 10 birds. Not going to be happy to say that that's you now have zero

spk_0 chance of Ken Burns. I can tell you. He's a big Washington. No, no Washington. No country.

spk_0 Verifiable. Biggest dick of anybody in the American Revolution. So I should have made a

spk_0 wood or something like that. His dick. Yeah. Didn't have a wooden wrench. Our wall tooth.

spk_0 Okay. Apparently he didn't even have wooden teeth. He had teeth made from ivory. Yeah.

spk_0 We learned that in the park. Really? Yeah. Well, elephant tusk teeth. Oh, apparently had other elephant.

spk_0 Yeah. Yes. Yes. Elephant Titus. Yeah.

spk_0 Well, thanks. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. The Revolutionary War. That's exactly right. Well done.

spk_0 All right, Mincey. We brought you in here today to do one thing and one thing only. Tell us

spk_0 everything you know about the Revolutionary War. All right. Revolutionary War. I can say I'm

spk_0 tired of the outfits. Thank you. All right. Basically, I know it ended. Okay, we're actually,

spk_0 we'll go with where it started. It started the Boston Tea Party. We'll probably start it before

spk_0 that. But they officially started after that. Okay. Well, they threw all the tea into the Boston

spk_0 harbor. Yeah. No tax. No taxation without representation. Mm-hmm. Was the big thing.

spk_0 It was the they thought that they made well became the Americans had no chance because England was

spk_0 such a huge had colonies all over the world and was so, so powerful. But they didn't know that

spk_0 these Americans were tough bastards. Yes. And had a lot of heart and fight. I believe,

spk_0 oh, was it Jones Town? The Jones Town massacre. I know it was Lord Cornelius was the general

spk_0 for British Cornwallis. Cornwallis. Close. And they defeated him in the last battle that

spk_0 damn it. Where was it? I should know this because I used to love the Revolutionary War history.

spk_0 Ah, you were it does have town at the end of it. Yeah. But it's not Jones Town. It begins with a why.

spk_0 I don't remember it. Yorktown. Yorktown. Okay. I was in the Jones town. Yorktown. I guess we

spk_0 could say we were sort of sort of in the ballpark on that. But it definitely seemed like, I mean,

spk_0 I felt like the Americans were probably 10% the winner before. But I like that you're

spk_0 setting the line. But they do. I think a big thing with that big thing with these kind of wars was

spk_0 the Americans knowing all the territory. And I think that's always a huge thing when you're on your

spk_0 home soil because the British army got sent over and they were kind of arrogant about it too

spk_0 and took some tactics that, you know, the Americans were able to hide militia everywhere.

spk_0 Kind of in woods and stuff and surprise them just knowing the ground. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a very

spk_0 good point. Like the the Brits had to transport their troops three months overseas. And another key

spk_0 thing I remember was the Americans bagging the French Navy for help. And they got help on the water

spk_0 from the French Navy toward the end of it, which is a big, big factor. Yeah. Dude, that's good.

spk_0 Yeah. That's a very important factor. I think a lot of people don't realize that. Yeah. Um,

spk_0 obviously George Washington was the main general for the US and then became the first president.

spk_0 Uh, obviously a huge huge hero of it. Uh, let's see what else. What are the other battles?

spk_0 Oh, the other major battles. Yorktown. I'm running on. I mean, I think that's a good start.

spk_0 I'm glad I remember the French Navy thing though. Yeah, that is good. I think that's good. Yeah.

spk_0 I think it also reinforces a point that a lot of Americans kind of know how the war started and

spk_0 how it ended, but it's the eight years in between that a lot of people are in the dark with.

spk_0 Refresh my memory about what the other couple big battles were because I'll remember if you say,

spk_0 right. You can listen to the first part. I will. Exactly. That's why you listen to drop a pen. Yeah.

spk_0 Date your history on all kinds of stuff and learn stuff all about the world. All right,

spk_0 men's eat. Thank you very much. And I will add, um, feel, feel good. It feels good. Not being tight

spk_0 in the airplane seat. Oh, yeah. A new change. Yeah. If I'm mad at an airplane seat, it's bad feeling.

spk_0 How do you feel about the fats buying two seats versus one?

spk_0 Probably depends on the airline a little bit. Yeah. Isn't that a rule now if you're on Southwest?

spk_0 Yeah. On Southwest. I mean, look, I actually don't have a problem with it. And I wouldn't

spk_0 accountable for my health for a long time. But if you're not going to take accountability for your

spk_0 health, then you kind of deserve it. My opinion. Yeah, fuck them. Fuck the fats.

spk_0 Thanks, men's. All right, Eddie, today we would like you to tell us everything you know about the

spk_0 Revolutionary War. No pressure. Everything I know about the Revolutionary War. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 You can narrow it down to 10 minutes. 1776, man. 17 now is that when the war started or the war?

spk_0 That's when America declared their independence. So I was just the Brits for the Americans.

spk_0 It's 13 colonies, Boston Tea Party. I've named everything correctly for the record at this point.

spk_0 You have. Yep. So far, you're spot on. I haven't got super into detail. No. But I'm not doing

spk_0 details today. I'm doing everything I know. I'm named Big Events. The bullet points.

spk_0 If you want to do it. Yeah, so the bullet points correctly. Yeah.

spk_0 The big bullet point guy. I like dashes more actually, but that's besides the point. Yeah.

spk_0 Lipses. How do you feel about ellipses? No. No. I can't even really think of those off the top of the head.

spk_0 Yeah, Revolutionary War obviously. Big, uh, big deal. Big deal. We created the United States of America

spk_0 because of we won the Revolutionary War. I mean, I feel like just saying it's a big deal.

spk_0 It's a big deal. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah. A very big deal.

spk_0 Arguably you could say it's the biggest deal in American history. Yeah, for sure.

spk_0 Absolutely. I feel like my answer's pretty decent. I feel like there's probably been worsens in this.

spk_0 I don't think mine was bad. No. Yeah, it's not bad, but yeah. It's a worse one. Probably.

spk_0 We've only talked to two other people so far. Yeah. And it's meant. And what did they say?

spk_0 I thought we're so much better than mine. Mincey crushed it. Well, good for Mincey. Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, Hannah didn't say a lot more than you. Okay. Well, let's do what Hannah did well on.

spk_0 Mary Futt killed her found founding brothers.

spk_0 I mean, that's that's actually kind of tough because if you, I mean, I'm obviously

spk_0 fucking Hancock because of the signature. Yeah. Yeah. And Cox in his name. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Knock is in his name. Yeah. So those are two pros. So I'm fucking him.

spk_0 I'll marry George Dub because you know, smart. He was the guy. Kill and Jefferson. Yeah. Yeah, I think,

spk_0 not a lot of great history behind him. But he'd be the best blogger. Yeah. For sure.

spk_0 For sure. Well, maybe John Adams too. But Jefferson wrote more. And Jefferson and John Adams

spk_0 had beef, right? They like started. They said he was a hermaphidite or something.

spk_0 I think they I think they did have beef just because like Jefferson was a very proud Virginia.

spk_0 John Adams is up in Massachusetts. Those are two very different colonies and those differences

spk_0 eventually led to the Civil War. Yes. But yeah, no, I think that's I think that's good.

spk_0 Doesn't have the two that died on the same day too. There's two founding fathers that hated

spk_0 each other that both died on July 4th. I'm pretty sure it's Adams and Jefferson. Now, do you know,

spk_0 you said George Washington was the guy? Why was he the guy? First president of the United States.

spk_0 What was his role during the Revolutionary War? He was a general. Yeah, he was a general. He was

spk_0 in charge of the American army, the Continentals. Exactly. Paul Revere. Yeah. The midnight right.

spk_0 Yeah. What do you boys know about Paul Revere? A lot. Okay. I was right. John Adams and Thomas

spk_0 Jefferson. And considering at the time the average lifespan was 52 years old, Adams lived till

spk_0 90 and Jefferson lived till 83. That's because when they say average lifespan, it's because back in

spk_0 the day, so many babies would die. Yeah. And mortality in their first couple of years of life. So it

spk_0 just brings down the average lifespan. But still, people weren't living till to 90 that often back in

spk_0 the day. Yeah. No, that's that's impressive. And that's when they're eating all organic and no GMOs.

spk_0 Can you name any battles in the war? Yeah. Yeah. So I know. Here's where here's to be quite honest with you.

spk_0 I will be honest here. Yeah. Here's where the Civil War battles in the Revolutionary War battles

spk_0 kind of get intertwined in my brain. Okay. Like obviously the first battle I always think about

spk_0 as Gettysburg, but I'm pretty sure that's civil. Yes. Yeah. That's civil. So that's my brain

spk_0 wanting me to think. And that actually is a hard question because I think before I watch the

spk_0 Ken Burns documentary, you know, I could only name like battles, Alexis and Concord, battle of

spk_0 bunker hill, battle of Yorktown. And then it's like the other battles. I just didn't really know much

spk_0 about until I really dove deep. Yeah. I've never dove deep to be clear. That's fair. Yeah. No.

spk_0 That's fair. I never died. You did a great job, buddy. Thank you. I take back what I said

spk_0 that years was worse. Now I'll say it's the best. Thank you. I'm not going to go that far. But

spk_0 who was better? Minnes. Minnes. Minnes. Minnes knew that the French hell. What? Minnes didn't do a single

spk_0 British accent. Has he done a British accent? I didn't support that side. So no. I don't want to

spk_0 like that principle. Let's go. I love that. Fuck. I'm doing fucking. I think if Chicago played a

spk_0 bigger role in the war, you would know a lot more about it. Let me ask you. Can I ask you this to close

spk_0 it out? Who's your least favorite British person of all time? Oh. Probably James Gordon.

spk_0 Great pick. Yeah. That is a great pick. On me up in the rankings. Yeah. That's a great pick.

spk_0 Yeah. I don't know why it was like, yeah, something about him just rose me the wrong way.

spk_0 Also, also too. Big James Tom guy. Yeah. So. And that was a big battle,

spk_0 big battle ground from one understand, right? Now you're number one. I just, but I don't know if it was

spk_0 a big battle ground. It was a big. But that's where they swooped up. That's where the boats came up.

spk_0 And they I think that was Yorktown. Was there some James town of Virginia? Well, yeah, James

spk_0 town is in Virginia. I think it was very, it's very close. Yorktown, James sound very close to

spk_0 each other. Okay. But you're right because James sound first colony. Yeah. Yep. Okay. I feel

spk_0 very good. You guys, if you continue to do this series, you will get me on a lot of shit.

spk_0 I feel like I want to know. You did. It's not a competition though. You know, we're just trying to

spk_0 because we talked to Ken Burns, who knows the most about the Revolutionary War of anyone in America.

spk_0 So then we just kind of wanted to see what our co-workers knew about it. You say it's not a

spk_0 competition. I say this guy to my right has a series where he lives to make a lot of people in

spk_0 this walls look dumb. It's not intentional. He's just asking the questions. It is a competition

spk_0 to not be the dumbest in the office. Yeah. When he does those around the office fits. Yeah. That's

spk_0 it. That's not my intention. It is my intention actually. Like it's kind of my intention. Okay.

spk_0 Yeah. I feel good about this. But also there's just a shit ton of stuff people don't know. Yeah,

spk_0 I don't know. Yeah. Why is Washington crossing the Delaware so famous?

spk_0 You know, because like everyone knows that famous painting of like George Washington and boat.

spk_0 There's like chunks of ice and the water and stuff. But once again, I just knew that was a big deal.

spk_0 I didn't really know why until I started diving deep on the Revolutionary War. Big deal because

spk_0 we're hard to cross rivers back then. Yeah. The point in the middle of winter. But yeah. I like that.

spk_0 All right, Eddie. Thanks. Thanks, guys. Next up, we got Mike Kadek. My first time on the pub.

spk_0 Yeah. First time. Yeah. We'll have to drop a pen in Indiana with you. Oh, I'd love to.

spk_0 Yeah. All right. So what will we have you on the show today to talk about? We want you to tell us

spk_0 everything you know about the American Revolution. Oh. Okay. There's no like right or wrong answer.

spk_0 Christopher Columbus. No, there's definitely wrong answer. Christopher Columbus. George Washington. Yeah.

spk_0 Okay. Wow. That was great. Great save right there. George Washington crossing the Delaware.

spk_0 He sneak attack middle of the night. Yep. On the French. No.

spk_0 Oh, but it was the British and British. It's the British.

spk_0 More viewers and the Germans and the Germans. The Paul Revere. The British are coming. Yep.

spk_0 That's that. Yep. That was Paul Revere. Okay. So he attacked the British and the

spk_0 Malibu and the Germans, which was kind of frowned upon, right? You shouldn't attack you all the night.

spk_0 The insurgency was like that. Yeah. Yeah. They kind of, they was weird. They were like, oh,

spk_0 like, no, you need to fight us straight up. Don't do all like that sneak attack. Yeah.

spk_0 No, I mean, when you're fighting the biggest empire in the world, you got to have some tricks

spk_0 up your sleeve. Exactly. You got to give them the Kevin McAllister treatment. Yeah.

spk_0 Set up a bunch of hot wheels and shit. Yep. What's that? What else? At some fort, was it at a fort?

spk_0 Fort Fort. Was this the famous lift in the flag?

spk_0 Nope. That's Iwajima. Yeah. I think that was Iwajima. That was a smooth 200 years later.

spk_0 Yeah. That happened at some fort. That's true. There were some forts. There was a fort

spk_0 Tykondoroga. Oh, like the pencil. Yeah. Like the pencil. Yeah. Do you have any idea where Fort

spk_0 Tykondoroga was? Somewhere in the Northeast. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was still like

spk_0 across the way. Yeah. It was way up on like Northern New York. Oh, wow. You're the Vermont

spk_0 New York border. Yep. That's good. I was saying this before you came on. Like I know a lot of

spk_0 football guys who go on to become high school history teachers. Did you ever have that in your

spk_0 cards if you didn't get a job here? No. Okay. No. I would be like the cool teacher coach.

spk_0 You know, like Pee? Yeah. I really loved chemistry honestly. And I was like I memorized like

spk_0 I had the whole periodic table memorized. Everyone was like cheating off me which never happens.

spk_0 Dude, that's interesting. That was my favorite. I'm a favorite topic. Subject. I don't know.

spk_0 Yeah. I always loved the iron. Yeah. Effie. I was always like really just was infatuated.

spk_0 Is that a word? Yeah. Fascinated by the effie iron. I loved it. That's a good one. Yeah.

spk_0 And if you add iron to the bottom of your hydrangeas, it'll change the color. Really? Yeah. So if you have

spk_0 like green hydrangeas and you hate them and you want purple, you throw a couple of rusty nails in

spk_0 there and it'll fix it. Wow. Yeah. It's cool. What was old iron sides from? Old iron sides?

spk_0 That's a it's a famous boat. I think that was from War War 2. I don't think Sam, can you look

spk_0 that up? I think it was an older war because it was one of the first like iron clad boats. Maybe

spk_0 War of 1812 or the Civil War. No, just search up old iron sides. Not. Oh yeah. Oh, it's so old

spk_0 iron sides. And what was that? Which war was that used in? Click on the just the Wikipedia, it'll say.

spk_0 George Old Constituce, the president George Washington could have been a War of 1812.

spk_0 Okay. War of 1812. Yeah. That was a game changer when they started putting iron on boats.

spk_0 I do love history though. I love learning more and more. Yeah. Because I mean in school,

spk_0 I forget everything from high school and I didn't learn anything in college. So

spk_0 yeah. No, like I love history so much more like since I've graduated college. That's when I've

spk_0 like learned most of what I know now. Yeah. Because when you're in school and you got a teacher

spk_0 being like you got to do this by tomorrow. Yeah. It's not as much fun. No. Can I say something about

spk_0 that? Yeah. Overall, I don't give a shit about history. Really? I like studying it. Like I like

spk_0 talking to Ken Burns. I thought that was fascinating. But as far as reading like history books,

spk_0 not into it. I'd much rather have like a dragon involved. I mean, yeah, that's cool too.

spk_0 Yeah. But if you don't know your history, you're doomed to repeat it. Look around. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. I will never read a history book. I like just like talking about it. Yeah. I didn't know

spk_0 that. Wow. Yeah. Well, you should check out the first half of this podcast or enjoy it.

spk_0 100%. Yeah. All right. Mike, thanks. Thank you. Oh, wait. No. Before you go, Mary Fuk killed the

spk_0 founding fathers. Fuk dude. I'm like, that is kind of how many founding fathers were there?

spk_0 Three. Yeah. Depends on it. Definitely more than three. How many were there though?

spk_0 Because that is kind of a tough question. So give me, give me some Thomas Jefferson.

spk_0 Okay. Like Hancock. Is he one of them? Yeah. George Washington one of them.

spk_0 Now was George Washington one of them? Like I would assume so. But like he was. Yeah. John Hancock.

spk_0 Well, what's a Benjamin Franklin? Yeah. Oh, there's some cool people out there.

spk_0 Be Frank. All right. Just on that highlighted list. Who do you think? What do you know about be Frank?

spk_0 Dude, he's dope. Yeah. That's true. I'd probably, I think Thomas Jefferson was sick as Fuk.

spk_0 I think I might, I think I'm going to marry Ben. Ah, that's tough. It is tough. I might,

spk_0 I feel like Thomas Jefferson was sick as Fuk. I think I might marry Benjamin Franklin. Fuk Thomas

spk_0 Jefferson. And kill that midget James Madison. Yeah. Killed James Madison because

spk_0 Ebo because Ebo small to a short. Yeah. True. A lot of the founding fathers were short. James

spk_0 Madison, I think was like five one. Oh my god. Yeah. Ben Franklin was short too. No. Yeah. I'm

spk_0 pretty sure he was. John, that's why Washington was such a dominating figure because he was

spk_0 over six feet, which is very rare then. I would have been a fucking like monster dude. Yeah.

spk_0 People would be like, where'd you come from? I was telling you should do MMA. Just when I was trying to

spk_0 choke you out, you're next so big. Yeah. It's a lot of, dude. You would be a problem in the revolutionary

spk_0 award, dude. Dude, I would just, you on the barren circle because that's when they were using the

spk_0 muskets, right? Yeah. With the ball. Yeah. And like those balls because they were using round balls.

spk_0 When you shot the bullet, like it was not accurate at all. Yeah. Where that thing was going.

spk_0 There was just, there was no like boring inside. Dude, I would wait. I would take all my offense

spk_0 alignment. I'd wait until they shot. And then we would just, we would just barge, man. We

spk_0 would just talk like special team gunners. Yep. Eventually. No, no, no, no, no, no, just hands.

spk_0 No, I meant like a gunner on the football field. Oh, yes. Exactly that. Yep. But then once you got,

spk_0 like up close, you'd have a bayonet and you'd have to like stab dudes. Do you think you could stab

spk_0 another man? Yeah. Okay, boom. No hesitation. I would want this guy on the front lines. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. Same. Just squeezing their fucking gouging their eyes out. Oh, like the mountain. Yeah.

spk_0 Squeezing the skull of another man. Shout out Pedro Pascal. Yeah. We got to get this guy in combat.

spk_0 Yeah, I would love that. I got some connections. Cool. I'm down. All right. All right, Mike. Thank you,

spk_0 guys. All right. Now we're up with my former co-host for the high haters show, which feels like

spk_0 that was a different lifetime. Yeah. Great five weeks that we had.

spk_0 About the fact that we had to be at the office still midnight every night. Yeah. Like on air.

spk_0 Yeah. That's crazy. But today we don't have you wanted to talk about high haters. We have you

spk_0 on to tell us everything you know about the Revolutionary War. Also, if you're listening to this,

spk_0 we're here with Casey Smith. Yeah, Casey Smith. I'm going to be honest. I know that this is going

spk_0 to sound really stupid, but I don't know a whole lot. I know that George Washington crossed the river.

spk_0 It was Christmas, right? Around Christmas. Yeah. It was cold. That's right. And they didn't see him

spk_0 coming. That's right. No, they didn't see him coming. He was standing up in the boat. He had red hair.

spk_0 His teeth are not actually wooden. That's a that's a myth. They're like,

spk_0 slave teeth, which is also a myth. That's a myth too. Yeah. We actually talk about that earlier

spk_0 in our episode. So what I thought it was like donkey teeth and like slave teeth. No, it was ivory.

spk_0 Yeah. From elephants and rhinos. Yeah. So that's not as bad as I thought. No, it's way better.

spk_0 I thought way better than we want. We won. We did. We won. Shout out to us. Shout out to us. Shout out

spk_0 to America. There was some tea thrown in the Boston Harbor at some point because they're pissed

spk_0 about the taxes. You're not going to tax our tea. Right? Yeah. And we won. A fun fact about the

spk_0 Boston Tea Party when they were throwing the tea all the call and dressed up as Native Americans.

spk_0 It's problematic. Can't hold down. Yeah. Yeah. You cannot do that. Yeah. We hate England and but we beat

spk_0 them. That's exactly right. That's basically all I know. All right. So we want to see you. And Martha

spk_0 Washington and George Washington had a plantation. That's true. You remember what it was called?

spk_0 Mount Vernon. Got it. Well done. Can I can I tell you guys a secret? Yeah. All of that just came

spk_0 from Shane Gillis to stand up. Oh, dude. I thought you're going to say Hamilton. I also love

spk_0 Hamilton. Hamilton's great. But beautiful. John Adams. That can be the show. Shane Gillis. The

spk_0 king in Hamilton is one of my favorite characters ever. That tyrant king George the third. Yeah. And he's

spk_0 like when he spits. Can't remind you of my love. No beautiful dogs on Netflix shout out Shane. He

spk_0 talks about how he went to go visit the plantation in 2020. Talk time to go visit it. Okay. Yeah.

spk_0 The last thing we'll ask you. Mary Fuk kill the founding fathers. Who do you pick?

spk_0 So George Washington was six two. Mm-hmm. I'm going to marry him. Got to marry some height.

spk_0 Thomas Jefferson. Mm-hmm. Was he hot? Was he hot? Now listen. Thomas Jefferson hot. I honest to god.

spk_0 I think I think Thomas Jefferson could be my dad. So it would be weird if I say that. Kill that guy.

spk_0 So we can kill him. Yeah. Kill him. Don't I kind of have the same bone structure as Thomas Jefferson?

spk_0 Well, these are also longer jaw shitty nose. I can see it. I can see it. If he had a red beard. The

spk_0 hair back then is just a Trojan. Yeah, because it's like we all think of George Washington having like

spk_0 white hair. He was actually a red head. Yeah. But they all wore those wigs because they were

spk_0 embarrassed about it at that point. Outered wigs, right? At that point in America, like around 80% of

spk_0 people had red hair. Well, I don't know about that. Yeah, look it up Sam. I do not know about that.

spk_0 The 1700s in America. How many people had red hair? Also, fuck. I could be way wrong. We hate

spk_0 Aaron Burr, right? Yeah. I think we do not like Aaron Burr. Aaron Burr, I think, hatched like a plot

spk_0 to like take over the country or at least like have his own breakaway country from the U.S.

spk_0 Wildly wrong. One to two percent. But I think maybe that is of the founding fathers because John Adams was

spk_0 Sam Adams was Jefferson was and Washington was John Adams was the ginger. Yeah. John Adams.

spk_0 I don't really know if that could if they could even really do that type of like data. Oh,

spk_0 I don't know. I'm saying like as a whole, like as a as a like the census. Yeah, like you get like

spk_0 yeah, Sam. Sam search search what percentage of the founding fathers had red hair. Okay.

spk_0 Hopefully I'm wrong again. I mean, you said it. Yeah. 80 per I did. I said 80% out of

spk_0 preposterous. Yeah. That's wild. The fact that it came up, which one of own slaves. Did you see that?

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's that's tough. Most of them did. It's impossible. Yeah. Okay.

spk_0 Okay. Wait, why would that be impossible? Because we know all the founding fathers.

spk_0 How many founding fathers were red head? Does it say? You know what? I'm going to change my answer.

spk_0 I'm going to change my answer. I'm going to kill Thomas Jefferson. I'm going to fuck George Washington

spk_0 because I think he was crazy. But how could you not marry Alexander Hamilton after the love songs

spk_0 that he wrote in Hamilton? Yeah. You know, like he. I mean, Manuel Miranda. Yeah. We'll also read.

spk_0 But he, I mean, technically he is Hamilton and for us. Yeah. He represents Hamilton. So he

spk_0 wrote a lot of love songs. He did pick the wrong sister. Yeah. He did. So maybe I. That's exactly right.

spk_0 So maybe I don't want to marry him because he would pick my sister instead of me.

spk_0 But I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to kill Thomas Jefferson. Okay. And it seems like you watch a lot

spk_0 of Shane Gillis stand up. So you might know who this guy is. Can you tell us anything about Ken Burns?

spk_0 Ken Burns. Why? Ken Burns. Why do I know that? Shane Gillis referenced him during his

spk_0 Saturday Night Live monologue. Oh, he's the, he's the guy that does all the, the historian shows.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. And that he like makes stories up. Yeah. Oh, that was the Shane Gillis bit. And

spk_0 yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about what he does. He does like the very like

spk_0 methodical talking in the historian documentaries. And he was just on the show before you.

spk_0 Was he? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm sorry. He doesn't make shit up. I was saying. Yeah. No. I've had. Um,

spk_0 Shane Gillis was saying one of the like the people in his Civil War documentary, which is making

spk_0 shit up. He wasn't. Yeah. He was. Yeah. No. Okay. No. No disrespect to Ken Burns. He doesn't

spk_0 make shit up. The guy in the documentary makes shit up. According to, according to Shane Gillis.

spk_0 Allegedly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how was he? Was he nice? Oh, he's awesome. He just loves history.

spk_0 Loves loves American history. I don't know if my parents would be very proud of me that I went to

spk_0 school, got a degree from A&M and my history is based on Shane Gillis's documentary. That's

spk_0 that's freshman history though. So that's a long time ago. Yeah. That's fine. And to be fair,

spk_0 you have known just as much if not more about the Relo should award than all the other people we've

spk_0 talked to so far. Well, that honestly in this office, that's not. Okay. Yeah. That's I once heard

spk_0 Nikki Smokes say that Hawaii was the furthest away from an ocean. Yes. Yeah. That was tough.

spk_0 Yeah. So no, but I do the biggest point is we won. The all-time worst guess on the game that I

spk_0 play is Tate when I asked him what the population, what the Ireland and he said 1.2 billion.

spk_0 There's five million people that live there. That's wrong with these people.

spk_0 All right. I also the Paul Revere House. That's part of the story. I've been there in Boston.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He went and warned people that the red coats are coming. Yeah. Yeah. See?

spk_0 I remember that. Well done. Casey. Yeah. And apparently there's like a fact check. What did he

spk_0 actually say? Because like everyone's like he said the British were coming, but he was saying something.

spk_0 He said the regulars are coming. Oh, I thought it was the red coats in real life. It was, I mean,

spk_0 everybody says the British, but I thought it was red coats, but I could be wrong. I think he said

spk_0 regulars, but that does not sound as cool. The regulars are coming out. The regulars are coming.

spk_0 Okay. What? Yeah. That does not say stinks. The regulars. The regulars are coming out.

spk_0 I would maybe call regulars. They should have been the regulars. They were the regular British troops.

spk_0 I don't know, but yeah. How sick would that be if that was the original regulars? I don't know.

spk_0 Yeah. regulars. Yeah. No. I feel as though we should just say that he said the British are coming.

spk_0 The regulars. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm perfectly fine with that line. Well, I'm sorry for

spk_0 disrespecting Ken Burns the way that I did. No. No. I'm going to go ahead and accept your apology on his

spk_0 behalf. It's a shame. Yeah. Blame him. I won't blame Shane anytime I can. All right, Casey. Thanks. Thank you.

Ken Burns Explains What We Got Wrong About the Revolutionary War | Drop A Pin Ep. 52

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