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HPBC Episode 38 Chamber of Secrets
In Episode 38 of the HPBC, the group delves into Chapter 16 of 'Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.' They discuss the implications of exams amidst chaos, character motivations, and the ...
HPBC Episode 38 Chamber of Secrets
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I'm Trevor. I'm Sylvia. I'm Vera. I'm Alex. I'm Crystal. And I'm Matt. And we're just a group of
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friends who love the Harry Potter series and enjoy delving deep into the nuances of JK's writing
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together. If you love these books like we do and want to hear speculate wildly on character development,
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flat points overarching themes, color theories, world building, and all the magical names,
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then this is the podcast for you. So grab your favorite dog your copy and join us in the Harry Potter
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book club. All right, so we're jumping into chapter 16 today, the chamber of secrets. And I just
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wanted to point out first thing here that I am just shocked about the boys' presumption that
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the exams would be canceled. It'sumbled or purposely kept the school open in the middle of
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attacks that could literally lead to my hurtle. And they are shocked that they have to take exams.
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Why would you be in school if it weren't to learn and do your exams?
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Yeah, yeah, go ahead Vera. Well, there's no precedence for it yet, but there is a year,
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year four where they get all their exams canceled because centric is murdered.
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It's this book that the exams are canceled. Is it this year? Okay, yeah, so it ends up happening
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anywhere. But yeah, yeah, I was going to say that it got me thinking how much can these kids
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really be learning? I mean, think about the period that Harry's there. I mean, like the just the
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crazy stuff that's going on, you know, with this, there's the tribe with returnament, there's always
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monsters and things like disrupting, you know, in general, every year. Yeah, in general, every year,
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you know, and it's like half the years, they don't even take exams. I mean,
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okay, one year they don't take exam. These wizards are not prepared for the world, and I'm,
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I don't know. But they are though. They're getting a very practical education.
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A practical, well, I mean, a lot of bad stuff is happening to them. Yes.
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So they're actually really good at defense against the dark arts. But moldhamward is always
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considered enough to wait till the last like couple of weeks of school before he disrupts everything.
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Otherwise, they're learning. They're learning, I guess. He's got a time off as a tax based on the
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school schedule. So in a way, Brad Fouldmore never really did leave. But it does raise the question,
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how responsible are these professors being? Because having been a high school teacher in another life,
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and Vera, I know you're in that setting constantly, you know, about 12 weeks prior to exams,
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we're like, okay, remember those are coming. Like let's keep on them. I can't believe. Yeah,
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seriously, the mechanical told them that their exams would start on the first of June. Not
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reminded them. Not like this is something we've been talking about. Don't forget. She told them
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exams are next week. Yeah. They should have been called by. As the perhaps only rebellious high
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schooler in this group, I really relate her on here. I would have been very outraged at the idea
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of testing at such a time. My high school self would not have stood for that. So just one for the record
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there. Well, as the resident for my any here, I cannot believe that they can't fathom this. Like,
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what is the point of being in school and literally risking your lives if not to teach you so that
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you can take exams and graduate eventually. Yeah. Yeah. I do like that kind of reality check.
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Like, why else will we be here? What else are we doing? You still have to take your exams. You're
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here to get your education. Well, and can I just that in the English copy, I guess the Brits,
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instead of saying studying, they call it revising. Revising, yeah. Make sure you're revising really
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hard for your exams. And that's something I just didn't know. I guess I'd grown up reading the
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American copies. And, you know, I read the English version this time and, yeah, it's revising. So
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I had to make sure I was reading it right. I'm like, is she talking about studying? Yes, she is.
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Yeah, I looked it up. I think it did. Just in England, you know, at their end of term, talking to some
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friends who teach at the undergraduate and graduate level. And they were talking about marking and
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how much work it is to sit for exam boards and, you know, getting the first or the second
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in terms of their marking scale and the grades that they had. And I'm looking at them blank,
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stared like, I have no idea what you're talking about right now. Apparently they'd have their whole,
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you know, a whole different system. And we're just supposed to go with it at Hogwarts.
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Right. We're going to say three days before the exam, Professor McGonagall kind of kicks off
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this chapter by saying, oh, we have some good news. The man Drakes are ready and we can start waking
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people up from being petrified, you know, healing them. And so that's kind of starting the ball,
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you know, rolling the ball on this whole series of events that happen, you know, where we open the
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chamber of secrets. Yeah. And connecting it back to the exams, you wouldn't think them,
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McGonagall, could at least do her mindy the courtesy of waiting to unfreeze her until after the
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exam takes place. That's what Ron says. Exactly right. Exactly right. It might be kinder to leave
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where she is. So so true. So true.
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Mom's absolutely correct. Yeah. I love that Ron's assumption though is that when her
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mindy wakes up, they're going to catch the culprit because she always has the answers and he's just
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convinced she'll be able to say who attacked them. He's just already so reliant on her sort of
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solving their problems as a little trio. Well, in a way, she already did. She is.
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He's right. Before she even wakes up, she's going to tell them what's happening.
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Well, Jenny comes over and she sits down and she is obviously anxious so much so that she kind of
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looks like Dobby who is about to reveal information that he shouldn't be revealing. And we know,
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you know, in hindsight that this is that she's the one opening the chamber. But I wonder, do you think
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that she knows that she's in danger at this point or is she just about to reveal
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that she's the one who has been releasing the monster?
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I think it's that. I think that she's, you know, she's gotten up the courage to tell somebody
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that she's behind the attacks and she, you know, she trusts Terry. Really, it feels like she's
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coming to talk to Harry and not to run more to me. And she, and she, you know, I think Harry also
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has this reputation for saving people. And so I think that she feels that he might actually have
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some ability to help her in this situation. And so that's what I feel like it is. And so that's
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why things escalate here because she is, she's got more agency. She's kind of breaking free of it
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a little bit. She's got the courage to betray the information that she has. And I think that's
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why later she's taken into the chamber. Yeah. The cynic in me is like, no, like she's,
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the fuse has been lit and the, you know, the petrified souls are getting ready to be woken up.
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And they're going to add fuel, like they're basically going to start piecing it together that like
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I did this, you know, I had some hand in this and she doesn't quite get it, you know,
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she's still a young girl doesn't know what's going on. But she knows like she's involved somehow.
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And the cynic in me is like, okay, she, she hears the talk about we're going to figure this out
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because they're going to wake up and tell us exactly what's going on or like why they are petrified.
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And so up Artemis like thinking, okay, she's under the gun now. She'd go ahead and fess up.
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I don't know. So there's two sides to look at it. You know, I mean, I think I think that can go
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together. You know, maybe the impetus is like, I've got to fess up because here comes, you know,
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the jig is up. Yeah. And so yeah, I think that's, I think that's clever. Yeah, I didn't either way.
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Yeah, the ball is rolling. Yeah. Well, um, interrupted by Percy and these gosh, Percy.
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Percy. It's sort of like a red hairing where he's been in places that he shouldn't. He's been sneaking around.
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Um, as a pre-fed, the less, um, the last person you would suspect, I guess. Um, so I just thought that
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this is just another instance where we're maybe pointed to suspect Percy a little bit too.
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So what do you guys remember what this moment is supposed to be? So if he,
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okay, so just to recap for listeners that haven't read this recently.
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Um, Jenny, Jenny is trying to tell them something. Harry asked her if she knows something about
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the Chamber of Secrets. Have you seen something? Someone acting oddly. She's about to tell them
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something and then Percy comes in and, and Ron is angry at Percy, he says, you know, she was
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about to tell us something important and Percy's like, uh, what sort of thing? Oh, it wasn't about
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the Chamber. It was that she like walked in on him doing something embarrassing and he asked her
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to keep her word. Do we find out later what this is? It's that he was kissing Penelope. Yeah.
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Yeah. Later Harry asks her, um, like, I think it's on the train back home or something and Harry
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asks her and she says, oh, I walked in on him kissing his girlfriend like a while back. Yes.
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She's petrified. I think in Percy's mind, but okay. Okay. Because I couldn't remember like,
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I was like, but Penelope, I assumed that it had something to do with Penelope, but at this point
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in the narrative, Penelope is already petrified. And so this is just meant to be, you know, a
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while back. Yeah. He says the other day, whatever. And I'm guessing as a big brother who's trying
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to keep his secret from Fred and George, who would just torment him endlessly. He's probably,
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it's on his mind that Jenny is going to reveal his secret. And so he's probably always,
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you know, thinking like, oh, if Jenny's going to say something, it's probably that.
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Right. Now, I think that detail that rolling throws in about Jenny giving Percy the
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fleeting frightened look before scampering away is the is the little detail that sort of seals that
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this is that sort of slide of hand narrative distraction. We're supposed to think, oh,
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it's not just that Jenny's been interrupted. And the momentum is lost for her to tell the story.
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And somebody's going to over here, it's that Percy has come and has frightened her. And there's this
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scenario where Percy gives intimations that, yeah, there's something that could be revealed that
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sort of matches exactly the thing that Jenny was just talking about. And then it's over as quickly as
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it began, but it does plant. It's another seat of doubt. I think you're right about that.
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And this is in this next scene where Harry is being walked to his class by
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Gilderay Lockhart. I just I noted that we've been tracking some similarities between we've
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talked about the parallels of books one and seven, books two and six, books three and five,
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and then four is a standalone. Well, with this one, here, what's about to happen is that Harry
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is going to manipulate Gilderay Lockhart into letting he and Ron go off on their own. Like, they don't
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need to be walked to class. And in book six, Harry is also seen manipulating some teachers.
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So anyway, this whole scene that's about to happen here where Lockhart is walking them to class
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and Harry and Ron sort of use his vanity against him. And then later he does the same with
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Professor McGonagall. And it's just a similarity with book six. And I just think it's interesting because
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ironically, the thing that he's doing is being cunning, which is something that Slytherin House
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is known for being cunning. And this is all about the era of Slytherin and Harry being sort of
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afraid that he's somehow related to Salazar Slytherin. And yet this is another time when he has to
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use that sort of Slytherin-S characteristic to to get what he wants to actually do something good.
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Yeah. I didn't really think about that.
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I used to make the argument that Slytherin House is redeemable and good.
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It's not the argument I'm trying to make, but I would make that argument any day of the week.
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Oh man. I'm out. We're in troubled waters. I don't know.
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I'm back. Let me point you to sever.
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I love the way this section starts because it's so indicative of Harry and the
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Scooby Gang throughout the entire canon. Harry knew the whole mystery might be solved tomorrow
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without their help, but he wasn't about to pass up a chance to speak to Mertle if it did turn up.
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I just love that. It's all going to be fine. We've got the matrix already. We're going to
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deputrify everybody and then hopefully they can help us solve the mystery. All the adults are on it.
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But Harry's like, but we 12 year olds might still be able to have a hand in this.
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Of course they do end up saving the day, but you have to wonder if it was necessary.
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If it was necessary that it was Harry that did it. I don't know. What do you guys think about that?
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I think it was necessary that Harry is the one who goes through all of this because,
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I mean, as far as we know, apart from Voldemort himself acting through Jenny, he's the only one
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who can actually open the chamber. Yeah. That's very true. And even by the time he makes it down there,
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the clock is running out on Jenny. While it is the sort of Scooby gang, let's do it, guys.
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It ends up being I think absolutely necessary in terms of the plot. And if we peel back the layers
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of that onion, thinking about how this plays into Voldemort's larger plot and who Harry has to
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become in order to do the things he needs to do, we could probably see other layers of necessity
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there as well. I also really like this. Like Crystal said, they're playing into the lock heart's vanity.
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But they're also playing into his sort of self assuredness. He has been sure that the danger
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passed as soon as Haggart was arrested. He was like, that's it. We're all safe. Everything's fine.
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But the teachers are still having to escort students through the corridors. And he thinks it's all
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unnecessary. He's like, this is ridiculous. Mark my words, he says, first words out of those poor
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petrified people's mouths will be it was Hagrid. And so they're also playing into this sort of
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sense of complacency that he's got that he feels like the castle is safe. There's no reason to be
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doing this. They're like, you're right, professor. You can just drop us off right here. That'll be fine.
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But I do think it's interesting that the other students aren't mentioned. We don't really hear
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about the other folks in the class like continuing on without them. Did you guys know Zanana?
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I just feel like it's just Ron and Harry walking with him. Yeah, well, I think they were with them,
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but I just sort of assumed that once lock heart left them all the other kids like Scrooed.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it says somewhere in there when lock heart left them, they kind of
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edge where the other students kind of go and they're like, oh, let me tie my shoe here.
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Yeah, it says explicitly they let the rest of the griffin doors draw ahead of them.
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And then he darted down a side passage. So that clarifies that.
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Yeah. But then they get caught pretty much immediately by professor McGonigal,
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who is very cross with them. And Ron is stammering trying to find an excuse. And this is where
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Harry uses his cunning and comes up with the excuse that they were going to visit Hermione
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because they're really missing her. And they wanted to tell her that the bandricks were ready.
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It's how Harry but she's petrified. And this, this episode of Professor McGonigal being like
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a little bit teary-eyed about them and their friendship, what did you guys think about this?
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Is it read a little bit out of character for me?
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Yeah, I disagree. I think this is quintessential McGonigal because she has these moments of
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deep care for her students that she shows. Like in I'm thinking of prisoner of Azkaban,
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whenever Harry doesn't get his permission slip signed and he really wants to go to that,
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or what is it, Hogsmeade. And she says like, I'm sorry, Potter, you can tell it the way it's written
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is that she is emotionally attached to him. So for me, she's just this like super nurturing kind of
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teacher who genuinely cares about her students. And I've just felt like this was one of those
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sweet moments we get to see the split sort of difference in her character where she's very stern,
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but her sternness is because she cares. And then when she can, she also shows this like genuine
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love that comes out in these sweet ways. Don't you think that's consistent with our very first
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exposure to McGonigal in book one? She's able to sit stoically on the wall as the cat for hours on
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end. But when she has the conversation with Dumbledore, it's very clear that there is emotion,
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affection, and even, you know, shock and dismay coming through. In a way that Dumbledore,
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you know, plays as this foil as this sort of stable, resilient character as, you know,
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McGonigal's receiving this news for the first time. And so it seems like even our very first
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glimpse of McGonigal has both aspects of her character thrown in there. And then we get
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little hints of it all along the way. Yeah. Yeah. And when they come out, especially
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poignant because they're not like Hagrid who's always blubbering. When they come out with McGonigal,
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it's you actually get to see this side of her character that she maybe tries to hide so that
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that sternness when she needs to be stern comes through. But then in these moments, she's just so
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tender with her students and genuinely cares for them. Well, you also have to remember, I mean,
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the student body, I mean, like the Hogwarts is on her shoulders right now. Dumbledore's gone.
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She's trying to keep everything together. She's trying to run it as if, you know, like,
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all that the school's still going. We're still going to have exams. She's had to be very stern,
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very strict. And then to her, it's like, you know, this pluck of her heartstring. It's like,
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oh, here are these students. They're her mind. These best friends and they just care so much about her.
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They want to go see her. Of course, you know, and then she starts kind of tearing up at that.
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So like, I see that. I mean, and again, thank goodness that this event does happen because they
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would have gone to see Moning Mertle. Perhaps, you know, found out, oh, we need to look, you know,
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over here at this sink and then, you know, open the chamber of secrets. And they would have had no
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idea what was down there. So this in a way diverts them, gives them, you know, some backstory on
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like what they're getting ready to deal with in the basilisk. And then there they go.
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I think one one more thing and we, I don't want to belabor the point, but it's like
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mechanical normally would be more stern, but they're cut she's she's caught by surprise by them.
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So it feels more of a vulnerable moment because it was kind of like, oh, she was maybe internally
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processing in a way that she wouldn't let people see, but was caught off guard and maybe was a little
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more emotional, but yeah, that was a good point. Yeah, I agree. I don't know why I think with the,
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I think it was her blowing her nose for some reason when I read it today, it was a little more
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comical to me, but it is pretty subtle. Like, she's got like her eye tears up a little bit.
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She sends them on their way and then like, they're all the way around with corner.
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She blows her nose. It could be that like, they get, they're going around the corner and all
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of a sudden she just kind of starts weeping. I mean, we don't know, but I mean, again, she's had to
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present this strong face, be strong with the students. She cares about the students and then
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here's this just touching scene or what she believes is a touching scene. And you know, maybe it just
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breaks her down for that moment. She needs a good cry in the hall. You know, before she goes back
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to her, you know, being stern and strong for the students.
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Right. So they, you know, change course and they do go to the hospital wing.
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I suppose so that, you know, their story will be straight with all the teachers because Madam
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President Gona-Gol is going to tell Professor Bins who's probably going to check in with Madam
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Pomp or you know, they're all, they should all know where the kids are. So they go in to see
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Hermione and Madam Pomp raises, there's just no point talking to a petrified person. They're not going
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to hear you and that does seem to be true, but they are able to find just what they need
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in Hermione's clenched hand. Her right hand is clenched around this page from a book that she
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tore from a library book. Hermione Granger tore a page from a library book. Well, that's out of
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their circumstances were dire. Yes, super dire. She must have been expecting like, I need to have
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this on me just in case I don't get this information to someone in time. And like that's
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the only explanation that I can think. I also, I don't know, I don't know. I think it probably
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more likely that Hermione would check out the book and have it bookmarked and carry the book with her,
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but then we would see that much faster. That's a much bigger thing. Yeah, right? Like we would have
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found that as soon as she was attacked and found the bookmark and all that, you know what I mean?
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But having it any piece of paper that's crumbled in her fist, that's easy to miss.
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I've never, I've never picked up on that. That's a really interesting point that she did tear this
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out of a book. Yeah, first wrote on it. She wrote pipes on it. She defaced a library book.
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It's character growth and development from book one. If she'd rather die than be expelled and here,
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this to me, it's like she saw the urgency of the situation and she just ripped it.
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Yeah, she's growing.
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Yeah.
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So this is where we find out all about the the bass list. She solved it. The creature, I guess she just
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went and but doesn't tell us what kind of book it is, but I'm assuming it's sort of like
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maybe like the monster book of monsters or the fantastic piece in order to find them. She's
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gone through some sort of bestiary and looked through all of these creatures until she found
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something that was consistent with the symptoms, right? And so she found the bass list.
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And the characteristics that we get are it's gigantic snake. We get how it's hatched, which is
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kind of weird. A chicken egg hatched beneath the toad. And it does have deadly venomous fangs,
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but it kills with its stare. All who are fixed with the beam of its eye show suffer instant death.
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We've got the spiders flee before it and we've got the crawling of the rooster is fatal to it.
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Anybody think that that was weird? Like how's a rooster crow?
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Well, it's important because at the beginning,
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yeah, the rooster's. Oh, yeah, I mean, I understand, you know, like it fits together, but like
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really the king of serpents dies from a rooster crow. Well, it was also hatched from a chicken egg
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beneath the toad. I think that's got it. Yeah, when I saw that, you know, it was hatched from a chicken
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egg, I'm thinking, okay, is there something that connects that there? But I, I mean, I don't know.
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Every great monster, every great boss battle needs to have some kind of ludicrous weakness
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for the hero to exploit. You know, whether it's whether it's, you know,
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any of the iconic cyclops that can be tricked by Odysseus by just being like, oh, I'm nobody.
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No, nobody. Oh, nobody's dead me in the eye. Oh, I gotta say, in this magical world, they just found
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the monster's weakness. They can't get any chickens or roots. Yeah, let's, let's, let's change this
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cup into a rooster bone, bring it down into the chamber of secrets, by the baby, by the bone,
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we don't have to kill it with the sword of grip and door. I mean, I don't know. Well,
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these boys don't, I mean, transform it up. That's a very good point. It's a good point.
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Okay, so my question about this description, though, is it says that they can live for many hundreds
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of years? And I don't know if we ever told this, but how long has this thing been down there?
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Because like, well, I mean, it did Sal is our slither and put it there.
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Yes, yeah. Okay. Seeing, yeah, I see my things. So, do we know that or are we just assuming that?
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Oh, he created the chamber, right? And it said he put a monster down there that he could control.
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So we assume he put this thing down there. Okay. And then Tom Riddle is the one found it and
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unleashed it. Or maybe he put a pregnant basilisk down there that will stretch the time a little bit.
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I don't think that's how it works. Yeah, but we just learned that's not how this happened.
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Yeah, I don't think you're produced that way. If you got to create them,
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yeah, we yield. You're right. You're right. I will. I'll sell you up into. Okay, that's what I have.
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An existing mythological beast. It's not something obviously it's not real, but it's something that
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uh, jk did not come up with. And so, uh, consistent with her basilisk, the mythological
spk_0
of basilisk is hatched the same way from like a chicken egg and a toe and all that. It's got a deadly
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stare and it's got the venom. But one thing that I thought was funny that is different because I
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was looking for the, um, for the rooster crow. That's the one that sort of stands out to us like why
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that's so specific and weird. Um, and in the original account, the, uh, let me see where is it? The
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thing that is, um, that is, uh, able to hurt the basilisk is the odor of a weasel.
spk_0
Hmm. And so, I don't know, I think that, uh, I think jk was probably right to change that
spk_0
because the crow of a rooster is way cooler even though it's still kind of offbeat, then just smell
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an weasel. For the record, the Harry Potter wiki says that Hogwarts was built around 990
spk_0
AD. Wow. So that would put this right at a thousand years on. That's a old snake.
spk_0
I mean, it says live many hundreds of years, but that's very, yeah, thousand doesn't very many hundreds.
spk_0
Okay. And she's also written on the page. I'm sorry, go ahead, Sylvia.
spk_0
One thing I was going to add, we have the benefit of our nine year old, uh, who's a big Harry
spk_0
Potter fan. And she said she learned when studying Greek stories that the basilisk is also a bird,
spk_0
in some ancient stories, but also has the gaze where if you look at it, you can die. And you can,
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and you use a mirror to reflect its gaze. Oh, perfect. No, I like that. I think one of the
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pictures on the article I was looking at definitely was sort of a chimera situation that had wings
spk_0
and stuff. So anyway, Hermione has answered the question of how it's getting around. She's written
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the word pipes on the page. So they're starting to put all these things together. They're having
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this sort of aha moment, solving all the problems with this one page that they just got.
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It's not killing people because no one is looking directly at the basilisk. It's got this sort of
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mediary intermediary between it and the deadly stare, like the the water from Mrs. Norris and the
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nearly headless Nick for Justin, all these different things. And then, um,
spk_0
and the mirror for Hermione and for, um,
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the Burmese clearwater.
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One of the other things I think is interesting about the basilisk, um, as a, as a, as a monster,
spk_0
is that it connects us also to the past story with the philosopher Stone in book one.
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Um, another sort of method of, uh, you know, discussing alchemy, um, and talking about the
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different things that alchemy could do was about conversion of, you know, base metals into precious
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metals. And Hermione's, uh, Trismagistus, one of these old mythological, alchemical writers
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allegedly wrote that the ashes of a basilisk could transform silver into gold
spk_0
through the alchemical process. And so to have alchemy again, having this center role in,
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in these stories is, is fascinating. I think should have fried that thing at the end then.
spk_0
Um, I think we all should just note for the record the recent Taylor Swift song, the alchemy,
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uh, album that's about her in Travis and is also Travis's favorite song purportedly. So just,
spk_0
we can, we can chew on that as we move on. Are there any, uh, particular lyrics that you find
spk_0
applicable to this situation from that song? Um, well, there, let's see, we've got who are
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redefined the alchemy. Um, it's, it's destiny. I will say it's, she, Taylor's use of alchemy is a
spk_0
little bit odd. She calls it the alchemy. When it's like the alchemist. But, uh, that's about as deep
spk_0
as I can go at this juncture, Alex, feel free. We'll circle around back. You just never know where
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the Harry Potter book club is going to go. I mean, our conversations take us everywhere.
spk_0
So, uh, was anybody else a little bit skeptical about a 20 foot long monster snake going through the
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plumbing? I was assumed that's our big ol' life in the, in the first place.
spk_0
Do what? I was skeptical that it was only 20 feet in the first place. I mean, I think we're,
spk_0
you know, 20 feet. Yeah, that's a big snake. But when I think of the basilisk, I think much, much larger.
spk_0
Well, that's what they said about the skin, I think. Right. Yeah. And, but my first thought was,
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okay, was that from 1300 AD? Because I think by this time, a thousand year old mythical beast is
spk_0
going to have gotten longer than 20 feet. Okay. Your plumbing question still stands, though.
spk_0
Yeah. Either way, he's too big for pipes. Unless it can change. At Hogwarts. Like, what is the system?
spk_0
Well, unless it can be ruined size and shrieking size. Yeah. If you saw the movie, I mean, it's kind of like
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a teenage mutant in jitter-doll looking pipe where they're just walking around in there. You know,
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so I think that's kind of how they explain it. It's like these are enormous pipes, you know, that,
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and then I mean, they're in like sewers basically. Yeah, it is. It is. But I mean, it's a huge Hogwarts
spk_0
castle. Yeah, I'm not going to, that's not, I don't know, that didn't hang me up for some reason.
spk_0
But I agree. I'm thinking, you know, we're, I mean, we, but we look at our pipes, our PVC pipes,
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you know, that carry our water in our house and we're like, nah, come on, man, that's not,
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you're not getting any snakes through that. But who knows? Hogwarts. It's a magical land. I don't know.
spk_0
It's a magical land. And so you're that big. What else is living in those pipes? You know,
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rats. We know rats. And not weasels.
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Yeah, and I don't know if we're meant to think that it's only,
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it's travel through the chamber and then up through that, like shoot that big long slide big
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go down. And that's where he's hearing it as it's traveling. Because then when it comes out of the
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bathroom, it's always coming out of that exit, right? That's the way in and out of the chamber. So
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multiple exits to travel around to.
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Moning Mertle never thought it was weird to see this enormous snake slithering in her
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bathroom. I know. Is she just so?
spk_0
I don't think that out. You know, hey, it's been, there's been like four attacks. Yeah.
spk_0
And she, yeah, she's just not noticed. She's, she's don't care. She's not care. She's not care.
spk_0
Is crying in the event of not paying attention to the snake. I don't think I've ever connected
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until this moment. I always thought that these pipes were going through the ceiling and that the
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snake was traveling through the pipes above when Harry heard it. Is that a possibility? Or am I just
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to say hang in the walls? It said walls and like, you know, you're in a castle. So, you know,
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maybe the floor of another, you know, I mean, area who knows? I don't know. I really,
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that what gets me is that we know there is only one way in and out of the chamber.
spk_0
So it's not like popping out different places from the pipes to attack in different areas of the
spk_0
castle. It's coming out of Moning Mertle's bathroom and going somewhere to attack people.
spk_0
And it's not being spotted on its way, right? Right. Well, I mean, here's okay. I'm happy for pushback.
spk_0
Yeah. I don't push back. I have is when, I mean, we'll see this later on in the chapter. But when they
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go down the pipe, the main pipe, there are a lot of other pipes branching off that one big main
spk_0
pipe that they're slithering down, you know, into the chamber of secrets. So, and then also Harry,
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you know, goes to the door with the snakes with the emerald eyes, you know, that look like snakes.
spk_0
Maybe when we say the chamber of secrets, that's really what we're talking about. That is the
spk_0
opening of that door. Okay. Now the snake has access to that pipe and all the other pipes around.
spk_0
Okay. So there are plausible theory. I don't know. I love that Matt. So the entrance is where the
spk_0
emerald eyes snakes are. That is the entrance to the chamber in which the vassalisk resides.
spk_0
Yep. And all those other offshoot pipes are how it's getting around to different areas of the
spk_0
castle and coming out of other exits like the one they found in Moning Mertle's bathroom.
spk_0
That's what I'm going with. So if he wandered around that castle a lot more and went to other
spk_0
bathrooms, he would find other little etchings of snakes that he could get to that same area, you think.
spk_0
Um, well, I don't think so. Yeah. I just, I'm saying like something like Jenny went down through
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the bathroom and Moning Mertles, you know, like that's the entrance. That's the way for a human to
spk_0
get down in there. Okay. She got down in and she opened up that door, which was the chamber of
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secret. It's let the snake out and now the snake has free reign to go anywhere it wants through the
spk_0
castle. Right. Any pipe that it wants to doesn't necessarily have to go up through the same one in
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Moning Mertle because that's a huge plot hole that Moning Mertle does not see this snake come up.
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She has to stay in this bathroom 24, 7. She's a ghost. She doesn't need sleep, you know, I mean,
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how does she not see this snake? I don't know. That's just me. I think she does see the snake.
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She just doesn't care. She's like, that's not it. She definitely didn't see it because she tells us later
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about how she died and about the big yellow eyes. And if she had seen it, she would have been like,
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that's it. I saw it. It was just here. There was the big thing. It was a snake.
spk_0
When we get the message, the chamber of secrets has been opened. I think it's right to interpret that as
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the lower chamber with the like you said, the Emerald-eyed snakes. It's an interesting idea that the
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offshoot tunnels that then the bass list is free to move. I think the details about all the places
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where Harry is in the castle and here's the snake in the wall suggests that he's got a kind of
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mobility. My question is, can a snake that size actually get out of any of, you know, the exits
spk_0
in the rest of the castle? It seems like there is a way for the bass list to traverse, but is that
spk_0
moaning, mortal sink exit the only place that it can get out to do its dirty work?
spk_0
Right. That's my question.
spk_0
Would I think would make sense with the fact that Jenny has to sort of be possessed and call it
spk_0
up, it would seem, in order for that to happen? I may be filling in narrative gaps with my own ideas
spk_0
at this point, but yeah, I think I understand it as it can move within any pipe that's big enough
spk_0
in the walls, but can only get out into the main part of the castle from that one exit.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
So all the pieces are now fitting into place. They realize, oh my goodness, what if the entrance
spk_0
is a bathroom? Who knew? You know, but we've got to get to tell the teachers now. So they got,
spk_0
they have to get to tell the gonnigle and they think the best place to reach her is the staff room.
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Let's go wait in there. She's going to be there in 10 minutes anyways. So they go when they wait.
spk_0
But the bell to signal break never came because Professor McGonnigle makes an announcement for all
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the students to return to their house dormitories and all teachers to go to the staff room. So they hide
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because they think there might have been another attack, something. Let's hide. We'll hear what it's
spk_0
about and then we'll tell them what we know. So all the teachers show up. They're hiding in the
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closet of little wardrobe. And Professor McGonnigle says that a student has been taken by the monster
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into the chamber itself. And that the Arab Slytherin has left another message which reads,
spk_0
her skeleton will lie in the chamber forever.
spk_0
Okay. Then she tells us that it's that it's Ginny Ginny Weasley that's been taken.
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One question I have I had never considered until today. How do they know it's Ginny?
spk_0
Right. It doesn't say Ginny, you know, on the wall. They're just now getting all the students back
spk_0
to their dormitories. So it couldn't have been like a headcount or oh no she's missing. How did
spk_0
they figure this out? His Harry and her honor also missing. Good point. Yeah, I don't know. I don't
spk_0
know how they would know that it's her just from the word her. I don't know. Does anybody else have
spk_0
any opinion on that? It seems like they perform that's like who's missing? You know, and like
spk_0
Dumbledore or who not him. But whoever's McGonnigle can perform like a check on everybody's spell,
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almost like a patroness that just scatters and takes stock and comes back. I can see that being
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in her spellbook. Yeah, we have something precedent kind of like the Marauder's map, you know,
spk_0
like this isn't that would not be precedent. Okay. Well, well, it's in the same realm as in,
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you know, like maybe the teachers have like, you know, the students, they have the list of the students
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and it's like they're able to check. You know, remember it actually in the movie where
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in the Weasley home, they have the clock where it's like, you know, like safe for like at home,
spk_0
at work, traveling, and all that kind of stuff. Maybe they have something of that sort that's like
spk_0
for the students, you know, and that Jenny Weasley's points to like, yeah, mortal death and
spk_0
pairing. They're all dying as we speak. You know, that's I think it's got to be something like that.
spk_0
Well, how many times how many times this year has Jenny's clop been pointing to mortal peril and
spk_0
Mrs Weasley's just having heart attacks at home? That's sort of really, but that's another great point.
spk_0
Maybe it was Molly who called the school and be like, hey, so I just want you to know.
spk_0
Well, cell phones don't work, so she's into now, but she's into now.
spk_0
Oh, this is Jenny's in danger, and I want you to just check.
spk_0
Oh, okay. Well, we just left this message. All right. All lines up now.
spk_0
Here she is. Here, all year.
spk_0
You know what, Mrs Weasley, we were worried about a killer snake monster, loose in the castle.
spk_0
So, you know what, this is putting two and two together for us. Thank you.
spk_0
I think we're running into even in the last 10 minutes of conversation.
spk_0
How difficult it is to create a whole less plot.
spk_0
We've got a ghost who doesn't need sleep, like living in front of the entrance of what we
spk_0
presume to be the only access point for the bass list to get out. And we're like,
spk_0
boning mortal, like can you give somebody a hint about what you've seen?
spk_0
And then, but also, you know, just a magical clock that tells people,
spk_0
where about which is a fun detail to add, a whimsical detail, but then it creates questions
spk_0
later on like, well, the fact that we know that this exists in this magical world,
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it sure would have given a lot of information that never shows up here. I think when the
spk_0
rauders map gets introduced as well, it creates all sorts of questions in the past, like,
spk_0
you know, the joke is what in the world were Fred and George thinking, as they looked at this thing,
spk_0
all these different times. But, you know, when you create a magical world and build such a complex
spk_0
plot, you end up with these places where when people create a podcast and spend too much of their
spk_0
lives thinking about it, like, what about this other detail, you know, that would have offered,
spk_0
you know, information that isn't included in this particular chapter? I mean, another thought is
spk_0
also just that like any other technology, it doesn't always work so great. You know, there's
spk_0
some other limit that we're not aware of. The clock at the Weasley's might work really good for
spk_0
telling if the kids are at home. Mortal Parall might be there kind of like, you know, when you have
spk_0
like a really pretty clock at home, the like, you know, the battery's a little slow. So, you know,
spk_0
sometimes just a bit off, but it's like it's still nice to have because it's a nice little piece to,
spk_0
you know, display right next to like your live-lap love sign or something, you know, some like that
spk_0
in the Weasley's home. Or the Maraudes map, we see it work accurately a lot of the time, but usually
spk_0
it's most accurate when it's somebody pretty close to Harry, like literally physically when he
spk_0
has the map, right? He uses it best when he's trying to find somebody just around the corner from him
spk_0
as opposed to somebody, you know, on the other side of the castle, perhaps.
spk_0
So, yes, shifting back to the story, we have, they, we find out Ginny Weasley has just been taken,
spk_0
then all of a sudden, bang, a door pops open and it's Yodoroi Lockhart asking what he's missed
spk_0
and the teachers, I guess, take turns saying, oh, something horrible has happened, it's your turn
spk_0
to shine now, Professor Lockhart. Won't you just saying that you could, you know, take whatever
spk_0
monster that is down, you know, with the flick of your wrist and you already knew where the chamber
spk_0
of secrets were and, you know, you see, finally Lockhart looking around like, uh-oh, you know, like,
spk_0
I think I've burned my candle too hot here and I'm gonna have to, I mean, he's obviously, we know
spk_0
after this, he's gonna have to leave, but they get him out of there and I still don't understand,
spk_0
you know, they send him away and when they do send him away, McGonagall's like, okay, we got rid
spk_0
of this Pozo. Now, you know, like, let's get down to business, we have to inform all the students,
spk_0
we've got to get everybody out of here. I still don't get why Harry and Ron didn't tell McGonagall
spk_0
like what they know at that moment. I get maybe Ron, like maybe Ron is in shock, maybe Harry is too,
spk_0
but because it's Jenny Weasley, they both, I mean, it's Ron's sister and Harry obviously looks at
spk_0
hers kind of like a little sister maybe, but I still don't understand, they've got this,
spk_0
this important stuff, everything, the pieces of the puzzle are set and they don't tell McGonagall.
spk_0
I don't get why. Don't let everybody has any thoughts. Well, my thoughts are that she sent all
spk_0
of the teachers out of the room and they had new choice, but to go back to the, I mean, they could
spk_0
have burst out of the wardrobe right then and said like, we have information, but I think, you know,
spk_0
the shock kind of held them where they were at and then McGonagall says like, okay, here's what we're
spk_0
doing and all the teachers leave. So I'm not sure that they really had an opportunity. And they
spk_0
also at this point don't know that Lockhart is a total fraught, they suspect it, but they think maybe
spk_0
he's actually going to go into the chamber. So let's go get him the info. Yeah, they suspect it, but
spk_0
also, I mean, you know, I think they more than suspect it. They're like, this guy, he's a dummy,
spk_0
you know, like I don't wonder like he's he smiles and like, you know, that's that's all he does.
spk_0
And they still, yeah, you're right, that maybe they were shocked in that moment, but then later on,
spk_0
it says it was the worst day of their life, you know, they were packing up their things to leave.
spk_0
And they still, instead of going McGonagall, go to Lockhart and say, we've got some information for
spk_0
you. Well, again, they don't really know where McGonagall is at this point. They know where Lockhart
spk_0
is because he says I'll be in my office getting ready. And so they think like, okay, he's actually
spk_0
going to take on the sponsor whether he's in Compton or not. So let's at least go tell him what we know.
spk_0
I mean, I'm, I'm just giving you a plausible argument. I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm just,
spk_0
yeah, there have been plenty of times though, even only this far in the course of the books where we've
spk_0
said, may have a little bit of communication would have solved a lot of problems. And I mean, a lot of,
spk_0
you know, the classic stories of literature are built on withheld communication. It's like the plot
spk_0
would have been a lot shorter and there would have been less conflict if people just said what they
spk_0
needed to say when they needed to say it. I, I, the crystal, I don't know if you were suggesting this,
spk_0
but I'm a little bit confused by this sort of mocking sending of Gilderoy into the lion's den,
spk_0
so to speak. Like, McGonagall's words at the end suggest that, yeah, they were just playing along
spk_0
with and, you know, sort of acting as if his bravado was, you know, for real and sending him out
spk_0
to be the hero. But then she says, well, that's got him out from under our feet. But he actually,
spk_0
I mean, the idea is that he's being sent by the teachers and they aren't taking any action
spk_0
after the fact to go deal with the basilisk on their own. So I'm a little bit confused by that.
spk_0
I mean, it does seem like a sarcastic sort of needling of Lockhart for all of his bloviating.
spk_0
But at the same time, they, he's the only one who's been commissioned to go and we don't have
spk_0
any indication that there's another plan being formed with a more competent hero at the helm.
spk_0
I don't know if you guys have thoughts on that. I just don't think they know what to do because
spk_0
they don't know where the chamber is. They don't know how to open it, what the monster is. So I think,
spk_0
I mean, in my opinion, it was like, let's get the students that we can safely out of here and then
spk_0
we'll try to figure out what in the world, I mean, is Jenny just dead at this point? Is she a
spk_0
hopeless cause because they have no clue any information about the chamber? So it really is. In
spk_0
case, it's, oh, you know, then go right ahead. But that's, so that's a situation where I think
spk_0
I'm reading with knowledge of what Ron and Harry know and forgetting that the, the teachers in that
spk_0
room are feeling utterly powerless and without any answers whatsoever. Okay, that does, that helps
spk_0
give context. Do I think what McGonagall in particular is doing there? Well, particularly because,
spk_0
I mean, people have searched the school and nobody has found this chamber of secrets in hundreds
spk_0
of years, you know, a people searching for it. And so, you know, yeah, I would say the teachers
spk_0
are hopeless. They're like the bassist, bassist, well, they don't even know it's a bassist. The monster
spk_0
just took a student down into the chamber of secrets and her skeleton will remain there forever.
spk_0
We don't know what the monster is. We don't know where the chamber of secret is. The only way we can
spk_0
protect the students is to get them out of here. And I think yeah, they're up against the wall
spk_0
right now. Like, we don't know what to do. We've got to get the only way to save the students is to
spk_0
remove them from this place. And again, yeah, we are like, well, if, and that's my point is if
spk_0
Harry and Ron had gone and told McGonagall what they know or what they suspect they know, then
spk_0
it's possible McGonagall could have formed a party with her snake, you know, some of the competent
spk_0
teachers and gone on a rescue mission, you know, to get Jenny, but we'll never know because
spk_0
Harry just wouldn't tell McGonagall. Well, as they're waiting in the Grifin-Dor tower,
spk_0
one thing that Ron says is she knew something Harry and that must be why she was, I mean,
spk_0
she was a pure blood. There can't be any other reason. And I just thought that that was really
spk_0
revealing of Ron and how protected he's felt during the school year being a pure blood.
spk_0
And I was just thinking his pure blood status is also something that in book seven when Harry
spk_0
and Ron have a huge falling out and fight in their friendship is ruptured that Harry sort of throws
spk_0
back into space and says like, fine, go, go back home where you're protected by your pure blood status.
spk_0
And there's some truth to that like Ron until this moment has felt totally secure,
spk_0
unafraid probably even of it for himself at least. You know that something could happen to him
spk_0
because he's a pure blood. So the boys go to the lock heart and they find him in his office
spk_0
opening the door just a crack and he's packing.
spk_0
And they find out he's planning to run away. They say, you mean you're running away? I mean,
spk_0
they basically cut through everything he's telling them and they, you know, bring it to light
spk_0
that he's running away. And then lock heart goes into this, you know, monologue of, you know,
spk_0
all that he has supposedly done, you know, all of his books, he's taking it from other wizards,
spk_0
he's basically, you know, he's doing the villain thing where he reveals all the information to the
spk_0
heroes and then he's going to in the end say, well, but I am actually proficient at one particular
spk_0
charm and that's obliviate, which would be a memory charm to make them forget what they had just
spk_0
seen or what they just heard. Yeah. Okay. So one thing about that.
spk_0
According to Harry Potter wiki pedia,
spk_0
blitwick would have been lock heart's teacher. Professor blitwick would have been his teacher
spk_0
because he started like circa 1970 and lock heart was there circa 1975. So I just think that maybe
spk_0
blitwick missed the opportunity here to sort of catch on to what gildoray has been up to. If he is
spk_0
so proficient at memory charms, he probably showed that proficiency in school. And so I just,
spk_0
I think it's interesting that potentially blitwick taught him new. He was a really accomplished
spk_0
obligator and maybe couldn't piece together that he has like stolen all of this
spk_0
or at least taking credit for all of this stuff that other wizards and which has have done.
spk_0
I don't know. They've learned a lot of charms. I feel like that's just going to be like one in the unit.
spk_0
You know, that's so potential evidence. Like, I mean, yeah, he's good at that. He did good.
spk_0
That day. He's a fraud. But I think after seeing him up close and personal, I mean,
spk_0
all the teachers, they hate him. And they realize this guy, he's vain. I mean, he
spk_0
snaps like I schooled this guy in the dueling club. This guy is not all he says he is.
spk_0
Yeah. And so I think that they are starting to see maybe they could at that point start putting the
spk_0
pieces together like, did he really do all that he said he did? I think he's just show voting. Maybe
spk_0
he did some of it, you know, and he just is making up a lot of stuff. I don't know what the teachers
spk_0
think. Well, one detail that I feel like we just have to point out here is that lock heart.
spk_0
Even in the midst of this like running away, he has to stop and like take his life size posters off the wall and take them with him.
spk_0
He's so vain that even in the midst of like potentially being exposed as a fraud, he has to collect all of his, you know, hair care products and beautiful robes and life size posters.
spk_0
Yes, he's still taking everything with him.
spk_0
Yeah, I think the big thing that lock heart seems to think is important about what he has done is that though these people that he still work from were talented, they were not attractive.
spk_0
Yeah, and so there it was much more believable for other people that he had done those things because he was a pretty face to put to it.
spk_0
Essentially, like he says, no one wants to read about some ugly old Armenian warlock even if he did save a village from werewolves.
spk_0
In the which you banish the band and banish, he had a hairy chin. I mean, come on.
spk_0
spk_0
And I think this just goes back to what we talked about with lock heart kind of as a precursor for like this.
spk_0
Instagram culture and all of these people that we follow because they are attractive.
spk_0
And a lot of the things that they're doing as like lifted, it's somebody else's work.
spk_0
But you know, we want to see them do it because they are pretty.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And that's essentially what he's done except that it's more nefarious because he's stolen these stories and then he has taken the memories of the people that did it so that they can counteract what he's done.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah. I think rolling is definitely I mean, we had this conversation a little bit before you're right.
spk_0
I'm in a previous episode, but the rolling is touching on something that is true about our culture and the media culture and particular of how it if it's the right person that's doing it.
spk_0
You know, if it's I mean, it's almost that, you know, if if something is important, you know, like it also for people to really catch on to it and want to believe in it also has to be sexy.
spk_0
You know, it can't be boring and like, oh, somebody else, you know, or somebody who's unattractive or whatever just put in the hard work and did it.
spk_0
You know, it's got to be flashy and you know, whatever it is.
spk_0
He's he's like the influencer who's sort of famous, but without any talents, right? Like the kind of famous for being famous.
spk_0
Except he's also nefariously stealing.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
But it just kind of reminds me it does remind me of influencer culture.
spk_0
But he this this scene that's coming up is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series because it feels like justice because he gives his old spiel.
spk_0
And then when the reversal happens, it's just beautiful.
spk_0
It's just so it's such good entertainment.
spk_0
So I'm know I'm getting ahead of ahead of us, but I guess we kind of turn next to
spk_0
they're getting getting to the chamber maybe.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Right. So he he has told them he's done his villain monologue.
spk_0
He's told them his evil plan and everything that he's done.
spk_0
He's laid out his his his body of work, right?
spk_0
And now he's got to tie up loose ends.
spk_0
So he pulls his wand on them.
spk_0
But thankfully Harry reaches his wand just in time.
spk_0
And and uses the expelling armistrand that they just learned like a minute ago.
spk_0
And it says he bellowed it and he put like we talked about a little bit of jage on it because
spk_0
Lockhart was blasted backwards falling over his trunk.
spk_0
So there really are levels of that spell.
spk_0
Yeah. And also this is like one instance where Lockhart is not exaggerating.
spk_0
He is very powerful at memory charms.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So Ron catches Lockhart's wand and throws it out the window.
spk_0
Lockhart is now unarmed.
spk_0
And he was pretty useless with the wand anyway, but now his like the one thing that he could have done
spk_0
to them is pretty much gone.
spk_0
And I love this transformation.
spk_0
I think we saw it a minute ago, but I let me see if I can find that passage.
spk_0
Where he's not handsome at all.
spk_0
Do you know where that is?
spk_0
Does anybody have that?
spk_0
Yeah. Lockhart gaze desperately around him, but nobody came to his rescue.
spk_0
He didn't look remotely handsome anymore.
spk_0
His lip was trembling.
spk_0
And in the absence of his usually toothy grin, he looked weak, chained and feeble.
spk_0
Oh, it's a feeble in your version?
spk_0
We have weedy.
spk_0
I love the differences.
spk_0
I don't know why.
spk_0
Yeah, I just I love that when he's not projecting, like actively projecting that strong
spk_0
handsome, confident image, he like receives.
spk_0
He's like a sad little turtle man.
spk_0
And here's another moment where once he's been disarmed, he has that.
spk_0
Lockhart was looking up at him.
spk_0
Weedy once more.
spk_0
And Harry was still pointing his wand at him.
spk_0
So now the kids have the upper hand here.
spk_0
And this next sequence is like kind of dark.
spk_0
Like they essentially take him as a hostage into the chamber really as like a human shield.
spk_0
They're like, you know, you're no longer useless to us as an adult.
spk_0
You could have done something to help.
spk_0
So you can go first.
spk_0
So what did you guys think about that?
spk_0
Well, I mean, I think it's like, you take them because you're like, oh, he's still going to
spk_0
maybe he'll come back and try to get us or something like that.
spk_0
So maybe I get why they did it, but it's still like,
spk_0
it's trying to swim with a sandbag around your neck or so.
spk_0
I mean, like if this guy's going to do nothing but weigh him, weigh all of them down or
spk_0
Ron and Harry that is.
spk_0
But if they use him to go first, I mean, like the sort of human shield.
spk_0
Yeah, they can use him as bait.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
It's just the ultimate calling is bluff too.
spk_0
It's like, all right, you're no matter what.
spk_0
Like we're calling you on this and we're sending you.
spk_0
You're coming with us.
spk_0
It's justice.
spk_0
Yeah, anyway, I just love I love the sequence where he just is so he's like, he's useless.
spk_0
He's childish and he says, what do you want me to do?
spk_0
I don't know where the chamber of secrets is.
spk_0
There's nothing I can do.
spk_0
Like he really is completely useless.
spk_0
He's powerless because all of this bravado is gone.
spk_0
And then Harry's like, well, you're in luck because we think we know where it is
spk_0
and we know what's in there and you're coming with us.
spk_0
So they troop off to a moaning worldels bathroom.
spk_0
And we finally get to ask Murtle about how she died and she tells us the story about
spk_0
all of Hornby teasing her and she runs into the bathroom to cry.
spk_0
And then she hears a boy speaking outside the door in a made up language.
spk_0
And then she opens the door and sees the yellow eyes and she dies.
spk_0
So Rital is in the bathroom actively opening the entrance.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
To bring the snake out.
spk_0
But we don't
spk_0
the
spk_0
entrance or the
spk_0
Rital.
spk_0
The green.
spk_0
Yeah, go down to the
spk_0
entrance with the glistening eyes are.
spk_0
We do know because he's Murtle is telling us how she died and he's calling it from the bathroom.
spk_0
Yeah, but we don't think it has to be done that way.
spk_0
Yeah, maybe it had already been woken up, you know, because it did our, I mean,
spk_0
because this is how it ends.
spk_0
This is the last.
spk_0
Yeah, more.
spk_0
There have been other.
spk_0
Yeah, there was, I mean, things.
spk_0
People had been petrified, you know, back then when it was first opened.
spk_0
So like it was already out and about maybe.
spk_0
We know that we do know that for sure.
spk_0
Murtle was the last.
spk_0
I know she was the first one to die or what I just didn't.
spk_0
I don't remember.
spk_0
I mean, are we to assume that they all just got lucky and look through mirrors and water and ghosts?
spk_0
That's what happened.
spk_0
Because I don't remember that bit.
spk_0
No, it's there.
spk_0
I promise you it is there like I think we've already talked about.
spk_0
We have talked about this.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
All right.
spk_0
Well, we have, I don't know how much evidence there is there to tell us like exactly what the
spk_0
attacks were like moving up towards Murtle.
spk_0
Other than they said similar events have been.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
So they did say that.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
People have been petrified.
spk_0
Yes, you're right.
spk_0
And I think we even talked about it.
spk_0
I mean, it was a while a little long time ago, but I think we even talked about maybe.
spk_0
The castle as a character again, like protecting the students sort of.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
So Riddle was physically in the bathroom in this moment, but we don't think that
spk_0
Ginny needed to have been in the bathroom every time she summoned.
spk_0
The snake.
spk_0
No, but again, we don't know this is right.
spk_0
I mean, why does she not need to be in the bathroom?
spk_0
Yeah, wouldn't why would because that puts a lot of,
spk_0
you know, the onus on Murtle to be telling us what's going on.
spk_0
If every time something happened, Ginny and then the snake were in the bathroom.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
And that's, that's feels like a plot hole to me, but
spk_0
it's full of plot.
spk_0
And that was like, I feel like that's where we just landed with.
spk_0
There are lots of exits.
spk_0
There are lots of pipes.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
There are lots of places it can go in the castle.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
Well, we don't need to rehash all that.
spk_0
So it was very self-absorbed.
spk_0
It's bothering me.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Listeners, if you have opinions on this,
spk_0
review've done your own research.
spk_0
Please let us know because this is one of those places that were snagged a little bit.
spk_0
Anyway,
spk_0
she, Harry says, where exactly did you see those big eyes?
spk_0
And she says, somewhere over there by the sinks.
spk_0
And then he finds the little
spk_0
etching of a snake, the tiny snake.
spk_0
And he is able, after a couple of attempts to imagine that the snake is moving that it's
spk_0
alive and then use a parcel, parcel town.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It tells it to open up.
spk_0
I really love this scene in the movie.
spk_0
I think that the way they did the sink,
spk_0
sliding forward and then opening and the great and all of that was very cool.
spk_0
And it leaves a large pipe exposed, a pipe wide enough for a man to slide into.
spk_0
And they're pretty sure at this point,
spk_0
they don't know.
spk_0
It's hard for them to imagine a scenario in which Ginny is still alive, but they have to go and
spk_0
find out they have to go and save her.
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, she's not, well, they don't know if she's definitely dead.
spk_0
So I mean, it's Ron's sister and Harry care about her too, you know, so they've got to go.
spk_0
But just, yeah, but just like looking at it from the perspective, like they don't know
spk_0
the way in which she's involved with the bass list.
spk_0
At this point, they just assume that she has been taken by a giant snake
spk_0
that if it looks you in the eyes, kills you, it's only.
spk_0
So the assumption should be she's gone.
spk_0
Yeah, well, they probably, yeah, there's that hanging,
spk_0
you're feeling, I think in the back of their life.
spk_0
If we left her there and she was, you know, like we have to do some.
spk_0
We've got to make sure you've got to make it.
spk_0
It just feels very bleak, you know, it's a very heavy situation that they're going into.
spk_0
It is.
spk_0
To face something you, an enemy that you can't even look at.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
spk_0
Can I just go back to the sinks really quick and point out that if this capital is built in like the 900, I think Trevor said earlier.
spk_0
There was no plumbing.
spk_0
Yeah, existing then for Salazar Slytherin.
spk_0
So who updated this so that the.
spk_0
So that the bass list could get in and out or a person could get in and out.
spk_0
Yeah, no clue.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You're right.
spk_0
Are you telling me in a thousand years they've never done one renovation to the bathroom?
spk_0
Well, they did, but then somebody who was the air of Salazarin had to have gone in and modified the chamber.
spk_0
Yeah, maybe it's possible, but that's another sub story that we just don't have access to.
spk_0
We'll just chalk it up to that.
spk_0
Yeah, I do enjoy.
spk_0
I think Sylvia was right.
spk_0
Like when she says it's justice, you know, where okay,
spk_0
Lockhart, you know, he falls over and then snatches the wand and you know,
spk_0
runs one and then says oblivia.
spk_0
I mean, it is justice, but it's kind of like a great tragedy in that like he's undone by his own strength, you know, type deal.
spk_0
And I think that's probably what resonates with us the most is it's like, okay,
spk_0
poetic justice.
spk_0
Yeah, it is.
spk_0
It's poetic justice.
spk_0
What he has done to all these other witches and wizards has finally come full circle and has come back to him
spk_0
in a way that I mean, we see later that like he doesn't remember who he is at all.
spk_0
I mean, maybe it was even more further, you know, he, he obliterated his mind.
spk_0
Further than he has anyone else perhaps, you know, and that like he just has no clue because we see him in a later book.
spk_0
What's the name of that psychiatric hospital that among those?
spk_0
Mungos, St. Mungos.
spk_0
Not a psychiatric hospital.
spk_0
It's a hospital that has a psychiatric ward.
spk_0
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
My mistake that all the viewers out there, they're not viewers.
spk_0
I'm a slave doll.
spk_0
I can do that too.
spk_0
Or readers.
spk_0
I say readers of this.
spk_0
I'm sorry.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Yeah, so to kind of tie up to where we're where we are now, they've gone down the pipe,
spk_0
which ends up being like a long, it says, like rushing down an endless,
spk_0
slimy, dark slide.
spk_0
And Harry can see more pipes branching off in all directions,
spk_0
which is key to our theory.
spk_0
But none as large as theirs, which pushed it in turns,
spk_0
slipping steeply downwards.
spk_0
And Yudhuti was falling deeper below the school than even the dungeons.
spk_0
And they assume later that their miles under the school,
spk_0
maybe, maybe even under the lake because of how kind of wet and slimy it is down there.
spk_0
Right. And so down here in this sort of entrance of the pipe entrance to the chamber
spk_0
is where they find the giant snake skin.
spk_0
Oh, and the first thing that happens is Harry steps on.
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
There it is.
spk_0
Her low crunch is Ron.
spk_0
And Ron steps on what turned out to be a rat skull.
spk_0
And they don't really get into it as much in the books.
spk_0
But I kind of liked how it seemed to be in the movie that the basillus can eat in just tons of
spk_0
rodents down there.
spk_0
Because it's eating something.
spk_0
It's definitely not eating any of its victims, despite what it says it's going to do.
spk_0
But it is eating like vermin.
spk_0
Which you got to wonder after they killed the basillus, is there a role for
spk_0
a man prop, woman Hogwarts?
spk_0
Because it was eating a lot of them.
spk_0
Well, it is miles below the school.
spk_0
So who cares?
spk_0
Friends.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
So and Harry says,
spk_0
remember any sign of movement close your eyes straight away.
spk_0
And that is such a terrifying leg.
spk_0
Then what?
spk_0
Then what do I do?
spk_0
I am a 12 year old.
spk_0
I know three spells.
spk_0
And none of them are going to work on a giant snake who still has deadly venom.
spk_0
Even if it doesn't look at me and kill me, because I'm not looking at it.
spk_0
Like it's just it's a very bleak scenario that they're heading into willingly.
spk_0
Like these are some very brave kids.
spk_0
This is where I was just remember reading the first time when I was a kid and being like,
spk_0
I like what do you do?
spk_0
It sneaks out from around a quarter and you just shut your eyes and wait to die.
spk_0
What do you do?
spk_0
Crazy.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And then we get this whole moment with Lockhart where he lunges and grabs Ron's wand.
spk_0
But it was Ron's wand.
spk_0
And Ron's wand does not do what you want it to do.
spk_0
And so.
spk_0
Only does it erase Lockhart's mind, but it creates or it explodes with the force of a small bomb.
spk_0
That's where I meant to say earlier that Lockhart was not exaggerating about how forceful his
spk_0
obliviate spells are. It explodes with the force of a small bomb. That is a really strong.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Well, it says he yelled it, you know, obliviate, you know, and boom, a small bomb.
spk_0
And of course, you know, I mean, well, I've never been really in deep caverns and all this.
spk_0
But you know, bombs are something you don't want going off in a cavern because,
spk_0
yeah, of course, cabins are likely.
spk_0
And that's what creates, you know, it's a nice plot device for rolling because now we can separate
spk_0
the sandbag that Lockhart is and Ron from Harry and Harry can go it alone and face Voldemort himself
spk_0
and the bath.
spk_0
So this is, you know, this is a trope of this, you know, this story that Harry needs his friends to
spk_0
get to the point where he must go it alone. So he couldn't have done this without Hermione.
spk_0
He couldn't have done it without Ron. But now it's time for him to face Voldemort on his own.
spk_0
And that happens pretty consistently. I think like in every book we get this moment where he
spk_0
gets to a point where, and he knows, it's me, you know, I'm the one that's got to go on.
spk_0
Well, I don't think he actually ever says it. He's told it by Hermione, you know, like it happens
spk_0
in this book. I mean, but I think in the last book, you know, when he actually goes into the forest,
spk_0
he says like, I've got to do this. I mean, like, you're right. That, I mean, it's a consistent
spk_0
plot device that keeps happening over and over again. And he finally comes to the realization of
spk_0
telling his friends, I've got to do this. And he knows he's going to die. I mean,
spk_0
yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think it's that it's the sense that he's the chosen one. And then after he
spk_0
has the knowledge that he's the chosen one, he starts to understand. And after he hears the
spk_0
prophecy, he starts to understand, okay, it really does have to be me. It's me and him. And anybody else
spk_0
who's in the forest around is just going to be collateral damage. People that are with me,
spk_0
when I'm trying to fight against Voldemort are just going to get hurt. And then he starts to try to shed
spk_0
people and go it alone. But he can't do that either. There's always got to be the community
spk_0
around him that brings him to the point where he goes it alone. Yeah. And so anyway, I just thought
spk_0
he realizes there's no way through either way. He's going to carry on because they can't waste
spk_0
any more time. Jenny may not have much time left. So, you know, Ron's going to try to move some
spk_0
rocks around, try to make a hole if he can. But Harry is going to get along. Like we said,
spk_0
he walks past the giant snake skin to the inner door, I guess you could say, or maybe it is the
spk_0
door of the chamber of secret. Who knows which are these snakes on a wall. They're entwined,
spk_0
they're carved on the wall. And they have glinting emerald's eyes and they're glinting and look
spk_0
like snakes. So he has no problem talking to them. And with his parcel tongue, he's able to say,
spk_0
open in a low faint hiss and the wall parts and cracks open.
spk_0
We're almost through this book, you guys. Look. I mean, it took us long enough, but we've
spk_0
two more chapters left in the chamber of secrets. So join us next time for chapter 17,
spk_0
the air of Slytherin. Okay, and until next time,
spk_0
miss you, miss you.
Topics Covered
Harry Potter podcast
JK Rowling writing analysis
character development in Harry Potter
Chamber of Secrets discussion
Hogwarts education system
defense against the dark arts
Harry Potter book club
exam cancellation in Hogwarts
Percy Weasley character insights
Jenny Weasley and the Chamber
Gilderoy Lockhart analysis
Slytherin house characteristics
Harry Potter themes and motifs
magical world building
friendship in Harry Potter series