Culture
***Greatest Hits!*** Pastor With No Answers-- Joey, Hayne, Amy and Jed talk Prayer!
In this episode of Pastor With No Answers, Joey, Hayne, Amy, and Jed delve into the complexities of prayer and its significance in our lives. They explore whether God intervenes in our prayers and dis...
***Greatest Hits!*** Pastor With No Answers-- Joey, Hayne, Amy and Jed talk Prayer!
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
Speaker A
Sam.
Speaker B
Hey guys. Welcome to church and other drugs. It's Tuesday morning. Your boy is not feeling great. My family got sick all last week. I, you know, maybe this is the Lord works in mysterious ways. I managed to make it through last week with not really getting sick and just as they got better, I got sick. So I wasn't able, you know. And I was still going to record an episode this weekend with Brandt and Brooke, but Brandt canceled last minute, so it's on him. But luckily I recorded this episode with Amy and Hane and Joey for pastor with no answers. And it's super good. Things have been going really wrong, but for about 20 minutes of the episode, my Internet just stopped during like it just stopped for my PC. It's because I, I always like snooze when it tells me to update and restart. And I think it finally had enough and just completely shorted out. So I had to go through this whole thing and I finally get to sign back on at the end, you know, just to drop the biggest knowledge. But it's all about prayer and, you know, does it matter? Like, does God intervene? So I think it's a great conversation. Please listen to it. Go check out my patreon. Patreon.com church another drugs. Josh is inviting another awesome person. I think for emojelicals this month. We're waiting to hear back from them. My popnerdstudios.myshopify.com for all cool T shirts and merch. And Kenan got this RFK island shirt idea from his friend and I made it a reality. I think it's pretty cool. So anyway, enjoy this episode and pray that I get better. Thank you.
Speaker A
Oh.
Speaker C
Hit this.
Speaker B
No, probably.
Speaker C
Probably for about two minutes on the toilet. It's pretty funny how you at how you find stuff out and you don't really know what you just found out. I saw someone post a picture of the Gulf of Mexico and say, see it right here or something like that. I was like, what in the world? So I googled Golf of Mexico and supposedly Google Maps changed it to Golf of America.
Speaker D
Or all you saying golf or golf.
Speaker B
Yeah, he's saying golf. Golf of America.
Speaker C
Golf, golf, golf.
Speaker B
That's like Apple Maps. Apple Maps changed it. Google Maps changed it.
Speaker C
So. So is there not an official name for bodies of water like it?
Speaker D
That's an interesting.
Speaker C
Is that like a question? Gulf of Mexico. And I wonder if there's a difference between the Gulf of Mexico, like that being an official name, and then oceans. Yeah, I mean, I started thinking, are The Pacific Ocean. Is that just what we all agreed to call it? I mean, because nobody can just decide, hey, we're going to call South Carolina a different name. That's officially the name of the state.
Speaker D
Right, right. Which. Which entity has the authority to literally change the name of a geographic location?
Speaker B
You know, I think. I think the entity that could just say, like, what are you going to do about it?
Speaker D
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fair.
Speaker B
Like, all right, try to change it.
Speaker C
Yeah, but I see, I. I could see the Gulf of Mexico actually being like, that's just what we always called it. And it may not be official as, like, the Atlanta Atlantic Ocean is.
Speaker E
I mean, I think it's pretty freaking official when it's on all the maps.
Speaker C
Well, it's pretty official then, that it's the Gulf of America now.
Speaker E
Yeah, but I thought that was, like, a joke Trump thing. That's real.
Speaker B
It's real. It is, unfortunately, very real.
Speaker E
Like, who changed it, though?
Speaker B
Donald Trump.
Speaker D
He wanted to rename the Gulf because.
Speaker B
Because we live.
Speaker E
Everybody jumped on board.
Speaker B
Stupidest timeline that has ever existed. Dude. What, like, the hell, like, did we do?
Speaker E
We own that.
Speaker B
I think it's international water. I think it's like, if you have a lake house, don't you own, like, a certain footage into the lake?
Speaker E
But I thought in America, it's like. I thought it was like, seven miles off land. It's like, like, you're in international orders when you get more than.
Speaker D
That's a great question.
Speaker E
Is that right?
Speaker D
Somebody want to Google that?
Speaker E
How many miles is it?
Speaker B
I'm finding out right now.
Speaker D
Right?
Speaker B
Don't worry.
Speaker C
I. I still say. And I. And I obviously, I love the girl to death. I respect her views, but I know what Ellen would be saying right now if she was on the podcast. Like, you know, give. Give him a couple more years, and we're going down the Hitler path. And I still to this day say, if he were to hint. Even hint at. At killing a group of people or. Or something ridiculous like that Americans would be like, oh, nope, I hope so.
Speaker B
Do you know what the act is called?
Speaker C
The act of.
Speaker D
What are you talking about?
Speaker B
Because he also. Because he also renamed Mount McKinley like, it's now Mount McKinley, which is in Alaska. Yeah, it was denali. Now it's Mount McKinley again.
Speaker E
The.
Speaker B
The order is called restoring names that honor American greatness. That's the order.
Speaker D
Gosh. Oh, my gosh. So I went to. This would have been.
Speaker E
Sorry, Max.
Speaker D
Four weeks ago, five weeks ago. One of the guys I work with, he is a Boy Scout den leader and his son's involved in. I think it's actually the Cub Scouts. Anyway, they had this huge flag retiring ceremony, and what they do is they burn flags. That's what they do. So they have the ceremony and they fold the flag a certain way, and all the kids are in their uniforms, and then they salute the flag and they pledge and they say this chant that they chant after the scoutmaster, and they take it and they salute it again and they place it in the flames. And then here comes another one. They did this. Oh, gosh. Dozens and dozens and dozens of times. And all I could think watching it is, this is exactly what Hitler Youth must have looked like. I mean, just this indoctrination of we're going to pledge allegiance to a flag.
Speaker C
To a flag.
Speaker D
That's so creepy brainwashed. It's. It's. It's bizarre. And we just accept it as well. This is just the norm. Because we were taught this when we were in kindergarten. That's what we do. It's just.
Speaker B
Yeah. Yeah. I definitely rethought about, like, as a kid, creepy like that is.
Speaker D
It's really creepy that we pledge allegiance to a flag into a country.
Speaker B
It's very. Yeah.
Speaker C
Brian laid out, I thought, just magnificently on the Seacoast podcast, how there's no other way of slicing it. Like, America is a religion. Americana is a rel. A religion. You've. You've got your. Your folklore, you've got your, you know.
Speaker D
Oh, yeah.
Speaker C
Respect and honor and, you know, don't you dare do certain things. And, you know, almost like that's blasphemous against what.
Speaker B
What's funny is, is all the people, like, wearing American flag shirts like that. That's. You're not. That's not allowed by the. The codes of the flag.
Speaker D
Right?
Speaker B
Really? Oh, yeah. All of them.
Speaker E
Yeah. You're supposed to do that.
Speaker B
You're not supposed to do that. It's.
Speaker E
No.
Speaker B
So I, I did just. Look, other countries do not have to honor.
Speaker D
Yeah. Because what we. What that is, is making the flag. You can't wear a shirt that has.
Speaker B
I was talking about the Gulf of America.
Speaker D
Oh, the Gulf of America thing. Gotcha. Gotcha. So in our. In our vernacular, how often have you heard the term anti American?
Speaker E
Why is it so bad to pledge allegiance to.
Speaker D
Why would you pledge allegiance to a. To a piece of fabric?
Speaker B
Like, yeah, that flag, dude.
Speaker E
Because it's more.
Speaker B
Wow.
Speaker D
Oh.
Speaker B
I mean, why not? I'm just kidding. Because it's more like you're Forgive me.
Speaker E
It's like, I feel like you're more like, I. The flag is the symbolism. It's not like.
Speaker D
So why would you pledge allegiance to a symbol that's an idol?
Speaker C
It's. It's interesting. I. I 100%, like, track with Jed and Hane, and it's also. I'm feeling Amy, too. Like, I don't. I don't mind having, like, a certain loyalty to my country in the same way that if I lived in Canada, I would say the same thing about Canada. Or there's a difference in.
Speaker D
Say I'm loyal to something and pledging your allegiance to it.
Speaker B
Can I read you real quick? Flag. U.S. code Section 8. 4. This is U.S. code law. The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back in folds, but always to fall free.
Speaker E
But that's a lot of clothes are not actually, like, they might leave a star off or not the right number of stripes or something. And that's how.
Speaker B
Then it goes into, like, how it should be arranged. Like. So I'm just saying, like, by its own code. Like. And it's a hilarious irony.
Speaker C
Yeah. Let me ask Kane and Jed this. Is there anything. And honestly, if. Just for the record, if y' all were to say, hell, no, it's not offensive to me. I'm just curious. Is there anything patriotic that moves you? Like, for example, if I'm at a sporting event and we're. We're all, you know, what. What's the song they say? Is it Star Spangled Banner? I always get them mixed up.
Speaker D
Yeah, it's.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker D
It's a war.
Speaker C
So people say that, and then the jets fly over and it feels patriotic. Is that. Does anything along those lines move you at all?
Speaker D
Doesn't for me. Not.
Speaker C
Not at all.
Speaker B
Probably World War II stuff.
Speaker C
Um, and to me, it's moving because one thing awesome about America, and by the way, there's still tons of people trying to get here, so there is something awesome about our country, and it is the diversity. Like, I'm telling you, I. I am full of so much American pride during the Olympics because we look like every single country in the world, and we're Americans. And I love it. I love the fact that we have an American jumping from the diving board, and it's like, whoa, he looks Japanese to me. You know? And it's just.
Speaker B
I love people, and people do not realize how legitimately racist the rest of the world is. Like, I'm not saying America doesn't Have racism, but go to. I mean, go to China with the Uyghur Muslims. I mean, like, it is. We are like. And that's why I hate the narrative that is splitting us apart. It's like we are like the. The hodgepodge. Like that. That's our whole deal is that, like, we are. We're supposed to be the people that did not want to follow the king and the crown, and we came over here to start our own thing. Right. But you do realize, Joey, like, at. At its base level, it's. It's no different than a football team. It's just like, this is our. Like, okay, this is our thing. Let's root for it. And then. But then you also have to. I think the. The. The more things you find out that the. That flag has been responsible for, it's like, do you really, like, do you. Should you support it? Like, honestly, I don't know. And is there any country that you should support like, that? I don't know. Like, it's.
Speaker C
I would say there's a certain level of support that no country should have the allegiance of from anyone.
Speaker D
Well, we are. We're. We're requiring and demanding it from people in spades. In my. In my assessment, the fact that we teach children, we indoctrinate children when they're five, six years old to pledge allegiance to a piece of fabric, and then we have all these rules about that piece of fabric and the symbolism, that's an idol in my definition. I think that that's insanely unhealthy. Something I was mentioning earlier. I mean, I've heard my entire life, well, that's anti American. You guys heard that phrase, that's anti American. You shouldn't just anti American. There's only one other country in the world that uses that, and that's Russia. To say something's anti Russian. And before then, it was anti Soviet. And that is a. And that is a country that is absolutely, I mean, brainwashed some and took. Taken a. Incredible advantage of their. Of their population.
Speaker B
And you remember, like, all y' all remember post 9 11, the most unifying, patriotic hoorah thing in the world. And then, you know, now that we know what really went on, it's like we were manipulated into having this patriotic fervor so that those in charge could do what they wanted to for their own selfish gains. Like, we were just completely manipulated. And that's where, like, yeah, it became like the Dixie Chicks were like the first people to get canceled for being anti American because they, like, that used to be a huge thing back then where it's like.
Speaker C
Yeah, it was. It was jaw dropping. I watched it's maybe 60 episodes. I think I bought it for $20 because it's just right up my alley. I think I told you about. It's called through the decades. It went through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, CNN. It was so weird. It was like a different world. When they spoke out against George Bush and got canceled. Like, no way that would happen nowadays.
Speaker B
They'd be like, at all.
Speaker C
They'd applaud you for, you know, as.
Speaker B
Yeah, that was one of the first examples.
Speaker D
I can see you thinking, amy, I.
Speaker B
Want your push back.
Speaker D
What you got?
Speaker B
She hates me.
Speaker E
No, Joey just basically told me to shut up earlier. He was like, so Jed and Haynes. I was like, I'll wait.
Speaker C
Come on.
Speaker D
Well, because I want some pushback.
Speaker C
The reason I said Jed and Hane is because I think you and I would both be moved to patriotic stuff. That was kind of. Because I know you.
Speaker E
I was poking at you. But I'm. I just. I don't know.
Speaker C
I. I don't really like to be poked.
Speaker E
Shut up. You're so stupid.
Speaker C
I remember when the first person poked me on Facebook, I was like, who would ever. Who would ever push a button to poke somebody on Facebook?
Speaker E
So basically, I don't know. I just think it's. I understand, like, that America's not perfect. And I know that we've made a lot of mistakes and, you know, we've taken advantage of people and we've harmed people. I totally get it. I understand our history is not clean and perf. Perfect and wonderful. But I do think that we are a lot better than a lot of other places. And there's a lot more freedoms here. And just having the ability to have this conversation and not being in a country where you're shot on sight.
Speaker C
I agree. 100 and that's a great point.
Speaker E
It's. It's a little bit disturbing to say, like, we're indoctrinating our children at a young age to pledge allegiance to the flag. Like, I don't think that's indoctrination any more than it is to teach your children your faith. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with instilling in your children from a young age, like, this is our country and we love our country and we're proud of our country. And this flag represents people who've died for you to have the right to be free. And so we're going to state like, this is our country and we will fight for our country.
Speaker D
Would you classify the People's Republic of China when they teach their children, this is communism, this is Buddha, and they do it at a very young age. Would you call that indoctrination?
Speaker E
I mean, that's their belief, though.
Speaker D
No, but I'm just asking you, would you. Would you classify that as indoctrination when the People's Republic of China are teaching children at a very young age? Communism, like, we, we are the superpower. This, Communism is the. Is the way.
Speaker C
Buddha is the way.
Speaker D
Would you call that indoctrinating them?
Speaker E
I guess I don't have an issue then with the phrase indoctrinating, because I think it's done everywhere. You know, I mean, I think that's how things continue. You know What I mean is that you pass it on. And God basically asked the Jewish people then to indoctrinate, because God said, you know, write it on your foreheads, put it on your doors, bind it on your hands, like when you're up and walking and when you go to sleep, all the things like, talk about this and Deuteronomy. So I don't think it's, like, I don't think it's wrong to share your faith to your children. Sure.
Speaker D
No, no, no, not at all.
Speaker B
I. I will definitely to. To make my position more clear. Like, I fully love my life in this land, in this country and all the amenities and the freedoms. Like, I love it. Why. Why do I have to. Why do I. But why do I then have to like, like, align like. Like, why do I have to say, like, we. Like, when you said we've done some awful things, like, I mean, technically I didn't like my government. Like. Like, I don't approve of what they are doing, and I haven't since they killed jfk.
Speaker E
But you have the right to say that and you have the right to just like that guy, right? Colin Kaepernick. You have the right to bend down or not pledge allegiance or whatever, but I. But I think.
Speaker B
Right. Does that mean I owe them now, though? Who exactly? Well, the cut. Like, does that mean I'm, like, indebted? Like, I have to show a. Like, I guess. Okay, what does that mean? Like, I have that right. Therefore, you can exercise it.
Speaker E
I mean, you can certainly say you're not going to, but I'm just saying.
Speaker B
Like, oh, yeah, I can exercise it.
Speaker C
Jed, I think you and I are very similar with how we see the American timeline, government and all that. Because I. I See JFK as the last president who really was not everyone's pawn and really was trying to do its best for the country, and they shot him. And ever since then, it's kind of just been bullshit everywhere.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker C
You know, starting with lbj. And I will say that Trump has ushered in a similar posture as far as not, you know, I'm not going to do what people I'm going to do exactly. But I think he is a dangerous person. Whereas I don't see JFK in that light.
Speaker D
You know, so knowing that, Joey, knowing that or where you're at, just how you feel that JK was a turn and you were obviously, all of us were born after JFK's presidency.
Speaker B
Right.
Speaker D
And obviously his death and decades after, actually. So do you feel like, because the government was taking a, a sour turn at that point, that the government requiring. They require it, the public school system to teach you to pledge allegiance to them, to pledge allegiance to that flag. Do you think that that's some sense an indoctrination of brainwashing by the government?
Speaker C
See, I don't feel like the Pledge of Allegiance brainwashed me. I feel like it was just something I needed to memorize and I was proud of myself for memorizing it. I feel how I was brainwashed was basically that America was this pure, pure country and ambassadors of good. Like, that's how. That's what I feel. I was taught, because I wasn't taught the brutal history of how we treated the Native Americans. I wasn't taught the gruesomeness of slavery. I knew about slavery, but I, I didn't. I wasn't taught it in a way to really let it sink in and to really be like, oh, wait a second, that was America. That was America for the first hundred years. Whoa, that, that's something. And I will say this. I'm. I'm 400 pages into a book called Wounded Tiger. It's a true story. It's three different stories that all intersect in World War II. And I can't believe this is more well known. The guy that led the attacks on Pearl, Pearl Harbor, Fushita, actually became a Christian. Like, this is a guy that basically followed the, the emperor. And the guy who wrote this book, he has the endorsement of someone who had a heavy hand. And, and Tom Cruise is the Last Samurai, a woman from Japan who says, hey, this is true to history. Japanese people don't know this history because they don't talk about the ugly side of losing a war. That's just the reality. They don't they don't teach that sort of thing. And I will say that. And obviously this is pre JFK and Jed, you mentioned World War II also. How America was functioning as a country and how we approach the war. I'm not saying was a completely above reproach and good and then Japan was bad. In fact, this book makes very clear that there's good and bad on both sides. But we did handle ourselves way differently. Way differently. Such as dropping hundreds of thousands of leaflets, you know, on. On Japanese soil, saying, get the hell out of here. We're not against you as Japanese people. We're against your government, and we're about to drop some bombs. Whereas the sentiments from Japanese is just like f Americans, kill them all sort of thing. There was a difference. And I'm again, I'm not saying that how America handled themselves was good and how Japan handled themselves was bad. There was a stark difference.
Speaker B
I'll say that. Do you know about Hiro here? Hiro Onada, If I'm saying it right, he was the Japanese soldier who did not surrender until 1974. He did not believe the war was over. And they had to send the retired admiral to the. This island in the Philippines to officially be like, hey, bud, like, the war is over, everybody. He. He thought it was lies because he was so told that, like, no, dude, the. If you read about Unit 571, like, the fact that Japan got away with not having to admit any wrongdoing is unbelievable. Between, like, the rape of Nan King and unit 571, that is some of the most extraordinary darkness that, like, has ever occurred.
Speaker C
Yeah, look up Wounded Tiger, man.
Speaker B
I will. That sounds really interesting.
Speaker D
I thought at first when you said that it's going to be the memoirs of Trevor Lawrence. Lawrence.
Speaker B
Boom.
Speaker D
He's hurting. Hey, that's a hurting tiger right there.
Speaker C
What, did something happen to him? Or just a bad NFL career?
Speaker B
Hey, come on.
Speaker C
I think that's too quick. Too quick, too quick of an analysis.
Speaker B
But you know what? You know what, Tiger?
Speaker C
You know what?
Speaker B
Tiger does not suck. It's Joe Burrow. So sorry.
Speaker C
There you go. Got to give it up to Burrow. All right, so let's spend the rest of our time in theology. I've been wanting to talk to you guys about this for a while. I. I did want to. Before we get into some prayer, let me go around and ask you guys where you're at with the afterlife. So, first of all, Hane, I know you're in more of a perennially questioning whether or not God exists. But what, what's your default when you think of life? Like, do you have a default? Like, I know that you're not sure what you believe, but do you have a functioning default that your mind just kind of goes back to God or no God?
Speaker D
No. Yeah. My default is I have great hope in an afterlife and my default is in a place of belief. I, I do believe there's something bigger out there.
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker D
I was talking to a friend, I thought this was so interesting. I was talking to a friend, we were talking about God and talking about existence and proof or whatever. He said something really interesting. He said, he said. I, I heard a friend recently say I can't prove God exists any more than Harry Potter can prove that J.K. rowling exists. And that was an interesting thought when he said that. And when he unpacked it, it was that. It was that it, it was that Harry could search all day long and never concretely say that J.K. rowling existed. Exists. But we know that J.K. rowling's fingerprint is throughout the entire world. Part of J.K. rowling's in Harry Potter, it's in all those characters, it's in Hogwarts, it's in the games, it's in everything. She's a part of everything. And there's a great story unfolding. And I do believe in a story that's unfolding. I think that it's a redemptive story that's unfolding. Yeah. So for me, I have great hope that there's. Yeah, that. And believe that at some measure there, there is something intelligent there. For sure.
Speaker C
And, and if God exists, I say for sure.
Speaker D
I hope.
Speaker C
Right. And if God exists, you, you definitely lean more towards an all loving, all benevolent God which would include universal salvation. If, if there's an afterlife, you don't see it as some people getting discounted?
Speaker D
No, I don't. I don't think that that's consistent. I mean, my, my, the best understanding that I know of, of God is what I read in the scriptures and my understanding of the Bible and the trajectory of it is, is a universal love, a universal salvation.
Speaker C
Yeah. And so I, I did, I was going to go to Jed next because I think he's somewhere in the middle and Amy and I are pals, so I know where she's at. But I, I wanted to ask you, Amy, what you thought about this. So I wrote this down. Next time we talk about hell. There's a rapper out there who I think he's very. His lyrics are pretty much it won't sound like it when I give you this example, but his lyrics are pretty relevant. He's palpable, really awesome rapper. He's. He has a line and I'm like, oh my gosh, this sounds like the old school Christian rap I used to listen to. Basically saying something about hell and then making a joke about not, you know, you know, needing AC in hell and there's no AC or something like that. And I just thought to myself, like, that ain't funny. That if you, if you actually believe in a place of torment, it's. I don't think I'll use the word appropriate to use a light hearted, jokey line. Like, that's some serious, serious stuff. And I, and I'm curious because, Amy, you know how I believe and I think you also are familiar with how. For me personally, when I did deeply believe in a everlasting place of torment, like it, it was hard for me to I think, have decent mental health. Like that's, you know, So I, I would almost go so far as to say if there's an eternal place of torment, God was like, yeah, I'm gonna change Joey's belief because I don't think he can handle that for the rest of his life. I truly don't believe that. But I could see God being like, I'm gonna help Joey out here cause he's gonna have a miserable life. Like, do you just. Are you able to compartmentalize and just kind of put. Because you are one of the most deeply loving people I know and you're coming into contact with people daily who don't share your faith. Like, do you think, oh wow, this person is probably going to be. And you, and you actually believe in literal flames, right? I mean like a literal torture chamber. Like how do you, how do you operate on a day to day.
Speaker E
I have said many times, like other faiths do it a lot better than Christians. Like there's a lot of faiths that go door to door because of that same reason. And I don't feel like there are very many. I mean, there are lots of missionaries. I don't want to say none, but I don't think Christians do as good of a job as other faiths do to say, like, hey, I do believe this, this is really serious and I care about where you end up. And I think that.
Speaker C
Would you be a part of that too? Would you say Amy Alderman doesn't do a good enough job?
Speaker E
I don't do a good enough job at all. I don't. I. When I get. When I'm friends, like, really good friends with people, then I do tend to, like, especially if they're not a believer, like, we'll talk about it. And like, I have a friend of mine who's always like, oh, well, you know, I'm gonna get on the elevator and push down. And I'm like, don't say that, because if you knew what it was, you wouldn't joke about it. And he's always like, oh, it's gonna be fine. You'll see. And I'm like, well, what if you see and it's not? And so I try not to joke around about it because it is actually really, really serious. And I don't want that for. For anybody. And I think that that's one reason why I think prayer is so important, because I think there's so many examples in the Bible where the Lord was moved by the prayers of his people to. To reach out and. And rescue other people.
Speaker C
Gotcha. Gosh, we can go so far down that path. And I'm trying to resist the temptation to. I will say that when I talk to. I'm not necessarily. In fact, I'm not thinking you at all, Amy, although maybe you've said something akin to this. But I was in a conversation recently with someone who did not share my sentiments of, like, a universal salvation. And I noticed that, like, the pushback to universalism sounds like a pushback to grace, which I thought was the cornerstone of our belief. Like, I actually had someone say, okay, whoa, wait a second. Do you think that there are no consequences for our actions? And I'm thinking, well, if. If. If what you believe about penal substitution and what the cross of. Of Jesus Christ did, why isn't that the consequence? I thought that's what we're saying is Jesus took the consequence so that we wouldn't all have to be punished. I just. I didn't get that pushback. It seemed almost like a wait, That's. That's what we believe.
Speaker D
It's like the math. Not that it should be calculated in the math, but the math doesn't add up. Like, it's. It's. It doesn't make sense at some level. I always struggled with that as a kid, even because I. I walked an aisle and I said the prayer, but I remember being just perplexed with, you know, it's by grace that you're saved. There's nothing you can do, but you need to pray this prayer. I'm like, but if I don't pray this, I'm doing Something like the act of praying, this specific prayer is doing something. And then I always, always struggle with that. Like, well, then is it really grace? If I'm having to do, say some words, magic words, then that's. Is that, is that really grace? Is it really a free gift like you said, Joey? It's like if it was all taken care of on the cross, then, well.
Speaker E
It'S definitely not a free gift. And that is something I hate when people say, no offense, but no unpack, that Jesus paid the price for the gift. Like, that gift is coming from him, but a price was paid. And so in return, we owe him everything. I think that that sometimes gets lost in, like, the world of Christianity is like, it is a free gift to us, but a price was paid. And when Christ laid down his life and was on the cross, I do think that all sin was. Was defeated. But I also think that the Bible says we have to believe in Him. And so, I mean, I think it's very clear that the wages of sin are death. And when we were. When we are in Christ, then we don't have the. The penalty of death. But I still think that we have responsibility for what we do. And I still think on Judgment Day, it'll be, well, these are my people. These are not. And then of my people, like an evaluation, kind of of like what we did.
Speaker D
But if you have to believe, is that a work?
Speaker E
No, I don't think belief is necessarily.
Speaker C
Work, but if you don't, then you don't get something. So.
Speaker D
But it's classifying belief as a verb, something that has to be done.
Speaker C
Let me ask you this, Amy. And by the way, are. And I mean this as a friend, are we talking about this in a way that feels good? Because you've pointed out that sometimes when I talk about this stuff, I talk about people who don't believe like I do, like you, as if you're stupid. I'm not coming across that way, am I?
Speaker E
Not yet.
Speaker C
Okay, not yet. Tell me, Tell me if I do. Like, does it. Is it.
Speaker D
We need to give you a buzzer, Amy. Like a taboo buzzer.
Speaker C
You just buzz. Is it. Is it unsettling to you because you, you said something about prayer and then we will segue into prayer that doesn't have to do with necessarily, you know, people's eternal life, but is it not unsettling to you? Because these are. These are the kind of stuff that really plagued me when I believed how you believed. You said something about, that's why prayer is so important, because we pray for people and God hears our prayers and will save people. We're talking about someone's eternal destiny. We're talking about someone can live forever and ever in perfect paradise or actually be tortured in an unfathomable way forever and ever and ever. And the God that the three of us, I truly believe, well, for sure, me and Amy would worship this. This same God that we just see in a little bit of a different light. Would you not feel unsettled? The fact that God is putting the eternal destiny of people's souls and whether they'll be tortured forever in the hands of fallible humans and whether or not they pray enough or whether or not anyone has even prayed for. So let's say you and I are both on the way to hell. We know nothing about Jesus. Hayne knows you, met you in college, loves you to death. Haynes never met Joey. Hain is on his hands and knees praying for you daily to accept Christ. You accept Christ. Joey didn't have anybody praying for him. And God's just like, well, Joey didn't have anybody praying for him. Amy did. So that's just how prayer works. That is that unsettling?
Speaker E
No, that's silly because that's not what I'm saying. Okay, so I don't think you're saved by the prayers of other people praying for you. And that's the only way to be saved.
Speaker C
Oh, no, no, I didn't think that. I didn't think that.
Speaker E
But you're saying, like, if there's no one to pray for you, then you're not going to be saved. Like, so what if you don't have someone to pray for you? That I think that bottom line, I think that God reveals himself to every person. And whether you accept that revelation or decline that revelation, I may pray for someone that I love very much and say, lord, would you open their eyes to seeing you? Would you break down whatever is guarding their heart? Would you help make it soft, make it pliable? Would you let me have an opportunity to speak truth to them? Would you speak truth to me? Make my heart pliable? I am totally comfortable in the fact that I probably have gotten several things wrong in my faith, and that's why I do Bible studies. And I get in there and I read the Bible and I try to understand it for myself and not just take what other people say is truth. I always kind of am an open hand and say, like, guys, I don't know. This is what I'm thinking. I think about like, you know, what is this Saying to me, how does this apply to me now? Even though it was forever ago, what was the context? And then also, like, I think that from Genesis to the end, the Bible points towards Jesus and points to the fact that we need Him. And I think grace is critical. I think mercy is critical. You know, one spares us from what we deserve and one gives us what we don't deserve, thankfully. I do think that we're required to have faith. And I don't think that it's necessarily that we can work our way to heaven in the way of, you know, what we do or don't do. But I do think that God clearly says, if you believe in me.
Speaker D
In your understanding and belief, I'll pick a random country. Somebody from Mongolia that is from a nomadic tribe and good person and ethical and full of integrity. Not that that really matters, but someone who's earnest. They're earnest about good things, but they never were taught about Jesus. And your understanding on the other side, how will that be dealt with again?
Speaker E
I think that God reveals himself to everyone and he says that he will and that the works of his hand are ascribed to his name. And I think that God reveals himself. Not everyone probably is going to use the same word. Not everyone is going to understand God is like the Christian God of the Bible. And I'm sure there's lots of people who haven't heard of Jesus, which I think is one reason why missionaries are critical. Like, it is important to do what the Lord said, like, go everywhere. But I have full confidence in whatever's got, whatever God's plan is, as I understand it. I know I don't understand all of it, but I trust him, that he's got it under control.
Speaker C
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D
Do you.
Speaker C
My last question about this. Do you hope that I'm right or is it not even an issue to you? Because you're so convinced that I'm not, Which I would totally respect that.
Speaker E
But, yeah, I don't think you're right.
Speaker C
But if I'm right, would you be happy about it?
Speaker D
Oh, man, that's a good question.
Speaker E
I would be delighted if no one went to hell.
Speaker D
That's beautiful.
Speaker C
Who would love that? I know some Christians.
Speaker D
I know a lot of people that be really pissed.
Speaker E
No, I would not. I would be like, God, wouldn't it.
Speaker C
Be the best thing in the world?
Speaker E
Yeah. I would be like, lord, I'm so sorry. I got it so wrong. Like, thank you for, for this. Like, this is huge. Unfortunately, I don't think his word points to that. I just Don't.
Speaker C
Yep.
Speaker D
Oh, I love your heart, Amy. That's. That's rich.
Speaker E
If my heart were better, though, I would.
Speaker D
You would believe, like Joey, if my.
Speaker E
Heart were better, I think I would do a lot better. Word, a lot better job of sharing my face, you know?
Speaker D
Sure. Yeah.
Speaker E
And I mean, I think that's at least acknowledging that is one step of it, you know, And I know not everyone's going to be an evangelist and not everyone's going to be a missionary, and I. Everyone's going to be a pastor. And I want, and I do try as hard as I can, like, to mentor people who are willing to come alongside me and mentor me back, you know, and. And really try to get it right.
Speaker D
Yep. Yep.
Speaker C
All right. So we had an episode, episode 56. Talked about a lot of stuff, but one of them had to do with some posts that a lot of Christians were freaking out about a house in Southern California that apparently belonged to Christians who prayed earnestly for God to protect their house. And there's devastation all around the house, except for that house. I think someone, maybe on that episode, I think Jed may have fact checked it and said it's not even true. But it was still a conversation that went deep theologically. I like what I think Robbie and Jed had to say. Well, Hane texted us and said, guys, I. I really enjoyed your conversation about tragedy and prayer. I witnessed firsthand for weeks Christians in public with other Christians and non Christians post Helene talk about how blessed they were by God because their homes and property were not destroyed in front of people who lost a considerable. A considerable amount. I lost my mind. Personally, I don't believe God gives a shit about saving property, the Chiefs winning another super bowl, or even our health, because that is conditional. The only thing that hopefully is unconditional is love. That's the only place I can camp as I deeply struggle with my own faith. So I wanted to get. I don't know if we lost Jed for good, but Jed had a very profound interest in what Hane had to say, and I knew that Amy would feel a little bit differently. So we may do this conversation without Jed, but I'll say that I first of all have rekindled my prayer life. And it. I would say this year, and it has been because I desired to do so. I didn't feel like I had to. I didn't feel compelled to. And it really has made an impact. I would say I'm very confused. And still intercessory prayer is a major question mark. If I had to Guess I would say I agree with Hain. I think a caveat that I'm pretty sure Hane would agree is I do think that God cares about how it all affects us.
Speaker D
I wanted. I wanted to revise something that I said there because when I said he doesn't or they don't give a shit, that is implying they don't care. And I don't believe that. I think we're to be a little clearer. I would say I don't believe that God intervenes. I think God cares, but God doesn't intervene.
Speaker C
And I would. I would go so far as to say I'm not even sure how much God intervenes with death and whether or not someone dies or is healed or is saved from tragedy. I guess I'd have to say I think he does sometimes. But this whole answer to prayer thing, I don't know. Know. I mean, because every time you can point and say, see, God is faithful, he, you know, uncle so and so didn't die. There's always tons of death to the contrary. And I actually looked this up for fun. I'll put that in quotations. 56 million deaths per year, 153,000 deaths per day, 6,390 deaths per hour, 107 deaths per minute. And then every single second, 1.78 people die. So almost two people die every second. I mean, just imagine how many people have died since we've been recording. So it's like in the grand scheme of things, death is one of the most normal things. And if what we believe about eternity is true or about true living and what true life and God is true, this life is very meaningless. Less. And I would, and I would. I could also make an argument for how meaningful it is, but right now I'm camping out on how meaningless this is. My gosh.
Speaker E
I think that obviously people have to die or Earth would be totally overpopulated. So I think God allows that because we don't have resources for everybody not being funny, like being dead serious. I know God allows that it has to happen. I think that God cares about everything we care about. I think he cares about us. And just like, like your kid might be talking about something that you're like, whatever, you're still going to like, respect the conversation and have it because you love them and it's important to them. That doesn't necessarily mean that it becomes important to him, but I think he does say, like, pray continually because he wants to have that ongoing conversation with us all the time. And then he just wants that fellowship with us and that connection with us. And I've noticed, like, once I had kids, that I felt very strongly that God does want us to bring him everything. I don't know that he necessarily intervenes. You know? Do I think he cares who wins the Super Bowl? Not really. Like, I don't think he's, like, invested in it, but I think he cares that we care.
Speaker C
Yeah. You had an experience. You and I love each other. This is far from an I gotcha moment. Like, this is a very serious thing. You lost a dear friend in which you guys rallied around her in prayer. Have you. Have you changed due to situations like that, in your belief in how an accessory prayer work and I works? And I'm not saying, you know, going from believing in it to not, but that has to adjust how you believe in. In prayer, I would imagine, depending on what you believed. When you started praying for her, for instance.
Speaker E
So I struggled a lot even when I was praying for her. And I would. I would tell the Lord, like, it feels like it's so hard to say, like, well, I'm gonna have total faith, and this is gonna happen. I. Because I would say, like, lord, I don't want my lack of faith to affect her. You know what I mean? And at the same time, I don't think that my faith can make her well. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, this is just, like, really complex on a lot of different levels, and maybe I don't have the words. And I was like, but, Lord, like, please heal her. And I never entertained her dying. The entire time, Dick kept saying, like, this is gonna go bad for her. Like, I just.
Speaker C
Even near the end, when she. When it looked like death, I visited.
Speaker E
Her the day before, and I just grabbed her hand and I saw how bad it was, and I just said, lord, I've had the wrong prayer. Would you take her home quickly? And I said, I just really have had a really selfish prayer. If my prayers are keeping her in this bed like this, then I'm so sorry. Like, please take her quickly into your arms, because this is not.
Speaker C
Yeah. And I think I would be at a place to where I don't think your prayers jeopardized what God was going to do with her physical body that, you know, like, you were worried about. Oh, shoot. Was my prayers keeping her in that bed? I don't think they were. Yeah. And I just don't know how or if prayer affects whether or not people pass into the unknown.
Speaker D
I just don't think God intervenes.
Speaker C
So you would make a blanket statement that pretty much universally God does not intervene with whether or not people die.
Speaker D
I don't know if I say anything universally, but I'd say generally.
Speaker C
So you would say, yeah, shit, maybe once in a while there are miracles that God just decided to do such and such.
Speaker D
I don't know. I just don't know. I think when we start going down that road and you talked what I wrote about Helene, I think we would all agree that God is a good God and the metaphor used for God as Father all throughout the scriptures. And that's very clear. Father. Father. Father. Father Fagr. I did just watch me a couple nights ago.
Speaker B
Nice one, nurse.
Speaker D
Oh, man. A good father. A good father. So. And that those. And I think Amy would agree with me with her definition of people that are following Christ, that have made a commitment of faith. They're. They're God's children. So what kind of parent. If that's the metaphor God uses for itself, what kind of parent would I be if one of my children asks for something and I give it and the other one asks for the exact same thing and I say no? What kind of father would I be if one of my children is bleeding out and I give one bandage and create pressure to save that child's life while the other one cuts its leg and I don't do anything and just let the child bleed out and die? That's not.
Speaker E
That's not a good parent. That's not. But that is such a crazy example because you are not. You are not all knowing, but the Lord is. And so God.
Speaker D
Would I be a bad parent? Would I be a bad parent if I did that? Yes or no?
Speaker E
It depends. It depends what if you know something that they don't know?
Speaker D
I would be totally in. In the right just to let my child bleed out. They both just cut their feet. They both got cancer. We both. Cancer is something I can't fix back and fix. Someone bleeding out. Both of my kids just cut themselves on something rusty. They cut a femoral artery and they're going to die unless I put pressure on.
Speaker E
So do you think that God does that? That he. He has.
Speaker D
No, I'm saying that. I'm saying that God just doesn't intervene, that life is just life. And if we truly believe that this life is a vapor, which I think that that's from the scriptures and life is eternal. I mean, eternal. And this life here's a vapor that I don't think that there's any intervention, and it probably would have Been pretty cool. If he would have intervened, she. It would have intervened with the Holocaust. I mean, why was that even allowed? Those are his people. Why was that even allowed?
Speaker E
I just think that, I mean, look at the Bible in the Old Testament when they, when his people were not obedient to him, he would be very patient up to a point. And then he would allow them to be dispersed from their land. He would allow them to be killed.
Speaker D
That's what I'm saying. I'm just saying I shouldn't use the word allows. It's just not intervening. I'm using the word allowed, which I guess in a way is not intervening, but that there's just not an interest.
Speaker C
Does that bring you more peace or less?
Speaker D
More peace.
Speaker C
Me too.
Speaker D
Way more peace.
Speaker C
And I. And I don't know why.
Speaker D
Yeah, way, way more peace.
Speaker C
I think for me, because it really, if anything, it magnifies. Life is but a vapor. And I think I'm a little weird with how I see death and everything, but when I, when I see the frailty of life, like when I read lamentations and Ecclesiastes, that brings me comfort. When I, when I see Solomon, just basically am just, just like everything was. For not everything was in vain. Like again, it's a double edged sword because I think life truly is magnificent and precious. But the part of life that's just like. I mean, you know, I think about the number of teenagers who were jumping out of boats on D day and just blasted immediately, right? I mean, and, and some of them didn't even fire a shot. Their equipment drowned them. They jumped off the boat. I mean just pointless suffering and death of, I mean, of kids, you know.
Speaker D
I mean, and some of those were kids that followed God and prayed before they got onto that amphibious craft. Please, please let me get through this. Let me live to go home.
Speaker E
But Joey, wouldn't you say like even in Chip situation with him getting this lung transplant, don't you think the Lord intervened in that?
Speaker C
Jed, what's up? You've missed some good stuff, man.
Speaker B
I'm so mad. I'm so upset. I'm sad.
Speaker D
Oh, but it's gonna get a good place. Can I say one thing, Joey? You're talking about Chip. Because Chip has, if I remember right, the same thing my father in law has, right?
Speaker C
Well, he's got two new lungs now, which is great.
Speaker D
My father in law has ipf. He was denied. He was denied his transplant. He's a pastor, Megachurch pastor. Prayed and prayed, denied. So does God have more favor for Chip than Dave Johnson?
Speaker E
No, but I think he has purpose in everything that happens.
Speaker D
I just. I just can't. I just can't go there. I just. I just don't. Because if I start assigning causality to everything, I will go insane. I will get very, very bitter.
Speaker E
Well, maybe he wants you to get to a place where. And I'm not trying to be tried at all, but like, okay, maybe it's getting to a point where you can say to him, like, I don't get all the things that you do. And I'm okay with that because that is having faith in not getting it. You know what I mean by saying, like, I don't know why this person dies and this person doesn't, or this one gets a transplant and this one's declined, or this. But a lot of the junk that happens on this side of Heave is because we are in a fallen world. And so there are people making decisions, like, about. Like. I remember Chip saying, like, he had, like, 31 tests or something to see if he could even get on the transplant list. I know that God did not write the. The criteria. You know what I mean?
Speaker C
Well, let me answer Amy's question, and involving Chip. I mean, I think that God for sure is at work in this life. And for me, it's camping out on Jesus's words that he's just like, look, if I don't go, the Holy Spirit's not going to come. So I do think the Holy Spirit is at work. But I would say maybe Erica's dad is getting the better end of the deal. If we look at it from an eternal perspective now, both of them from this vantage point says, hey, I would love to get two new lungs so I can live longer. But maybe from God's perspective, God sees chip, and Mr. Johnson is just like. I mean, it's not that big of a difference. You know, Chip is going to live 15 years longer. So I think that God for sure orchestrated some neat things involving the other family and those sorts of things. But I don't see it as there was fervent prayer for Chip that God said, hey, I'm gonna act on behalf of those prayers and get Chip approved for those lungs. And then there was some sort of shortage with Erica's dad.
Speaker E
I don't think that either. Yeah, but I do think that. I don't think we can say that. Like, God doesn't intervene and his hands are off, and he just watches it like it's a show. I don't think.
Speaker C
Yeah, I don't either. I don't either. But. But, but I do think most of the stuff we pray for aren't significant.
Speaker B
Did anybody bring up like open theology? Open in relation or process theology?
Speaker D
Theology.
Speaker B
Well, in that view, like, prayer is like. Is like extremely important because God actually can change his mind. Like, the future is inherently not known. So there is no how does it go. It's like at any given point in time, God wants us to be co creators. Co creators with him and we are either actively working against him or we are seeking to join with him to create goodness or his will. In that moment and this moment and this moment and this moment. I don't know how it works. I can say like, for freaking sure. And my mom will attest to this. There have been just in my life, the times that like, I feel like God has intervened or like angels have intervened, some kind of spiritual thing intervened. And then I've had dozens of friends die in the same situations that I was in that I got intervened on. So is that because my mom has some kind of special pull? Like, I don't know. And then that trips me up because, Joey, with my legalism, we've had a really rough month and I really will start believing it's because I have terrible faith. I'm not praying right, God hates me, I'm being cursed, that sort of thing. I don't know.
Speaker C
Yeah, the open. That how you described open theology is the mo. Like I've heard, you know, some open theists say, yeah, this kind of brings me comfort that God really can't stop stuff. It is. That is so unsettling to me, especially a God that says, hey, bring the prayers so that I will. Like, is it. Let me ask you this. Is it that God needs the prayer to be fueled in order to act? Or is he just like, hey, this is how I set it up.
Speaker B
We need it. I think it's for us.
Speaker C
That's not how you described it. You described it more of a. God and us are almost co laborers and our prayer for God to act is effectual and God wants us to pray for that reason. Because I have entertained the idea that from Christian lenses. And I do believe Jesus is as Lord, but I also think that God can for sure work through other faiths. And so Christians, we call it prayer. But I have entertained the thought that especially when you think of how one we are and how we all came from singularity, for instance, that prayer could be a very energetic force almost in the realm of like science, you know, when someone actually bows, you Know if I know Hane is going through a hard time and actually get on my knees and I pray and my heart is like actually moved on behalf of Hain. What if there is some sort of tangible force that enacts something?
Speaker B
Can I read something to you? It kind of sums it up better for me. So. In an open inter relational theology, prayer is viewed as a partnership between human beings and God. It acknowledges that God respects and values our freedom, engaging in a dynamic relationship where our prayers have the potential to shape the future. Through prayer, we participate in co creating a world that reflects love, justice and compassion. Process theologians typically describe prayer as participating with with God in bringing the world toward greater love, beauty and justice. This understanding suggests that prayer is not merely a passive act of making requests to God, but an active engagement with God's creative and transformative energies. As we align our desires with God's intentions for the world, we contribute to the unfolding of divine possibilities in our lives and communities. That's just one little excerpt. Sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me, dude. Yeah, so by that I mean like, yeah, it's more about us being able to align our intentions with him. I, I guess I'm kind of, I believe both because I. Also in AA there's like a saying that like God is a gentleman, he'll never come when he's not invited. And like, like every time I hear that I'm just like bullshit. Like yes, he will. So many times God has, I felt like barged in and like done things to me or for me. Not so many. A handful of times I feel like something has worked against me for my good, if that makes sense.
Speaker C
Yeah. And, and I, I'll eventually share more about this because it's, it's something I'm still processing and I don't want to go into of what the prayers were about. But here's an example of how I do believe in something powerful of prayer. As I was literally praying in desperation about something specific. And I really felt that I needed an answer. Not a specific answer, like, not like this man, give me this information, God, but more of a Lord, please give me some semblance of hope. And I literally had a lady, very unassuming, not theatrical, ask permission. Hey, after this song, can I tell you what I think God laid on my heart? I couldn't help. We were, you know, I was sitting behind you and I couldn't help but to pray for you. And here's what I think God had wants me to tell you. And it was Very specific. My. I mean, it was jaw dropping. I was like, oh my gosh. And I mean, this was like in the last last month. But that was a very personally God taking care of me, edifying me, giving me comfort me, praying for a family member's dementia to be reversed. I'm actually going to spend more time praying for peace for the rest of the family. You know, maybe once it gets bad that it would be quicker and not drag out. And honestly, I guess I don't have a whole lot of faith that even that kind of stuff is going to be answered because, hell, we prayed the same thing for my grandma and she wasted away in a nursing home for years with dementia.
Speaker D
I just think that generally, I know there's plenty of pushback against me on this. I just don't think that God really intervenes. And. But the stories that you're telling, your experiences, that would be an intervention, you know, and that's. I get that. I honor that.
Speaker B
It's either that. I mean, I always tell my, my jail story of like, that's the only time in my life that I have prayed something and it came true within seven seconds. Like a. Like a genie. I mean, it. Was it like slapped? Can you, can you.
Speaker C
Can you give the details or is that your own story?
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker C
We'll wrap this thing here soon, but I think this example will be helpful because I'm ready to pick it apart. And I bet you I won't be able to to, because I know you.
Speaker B
It's on its surface. It's like kind of silly. Well, it was a twofold. So I was in jail. I had gotten myself in debt with a very strong older person who was going to collect on the debt basically that night. And I was sitting in my bunk freaking out. It was like 9pm And I just hear all that day, everybody in the dorm was. They basically said like, yeah, sorry, man. Like, nobody's gonna help you. You're just gonna have to. And it was like, what? And at like 9:30, I just hear a guard say, pain, pack your up, you're heading out. And I was like, what? And I got moved to the trustee dorm. I'd forgotten that I applied for it like as soon as I got there. Completely forgotten. So that was the first one. And then I start my job in the kitchen of the prison, which there's like eight jobs that you do in the kitchen. And you start at the worst, which is the dish pit. And you move your way up to the best, the easiest, which is the serving Line where all you do is, like, scoop something and that's it. But the only way you move up is people have to, like, bond out, get released. Like, it's. It can take, you know, months.
Speaker E
Months.
Speaker B
I'm sitting there. I did it for a couple days. I had to wash, like, 9, 000 trays three times a day. It sucks. I mean, like, I had, like. Like. Like swamp rot foot just because of the water. Like, it was rough. And so I literally. I was like, God. And this was coming out of a season where, like, I tried. I tested out thinking there was no God. And that was, like, the darkest period of my life. So this is, like, how I was slowly coming back. And I was like, God, you know, thank you for getting me here, you know, in the trustee dorm, but if I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna need your help. And, ooh, I'm getting a little chills. And it five seconds, the CEO goes, brumfield, get your ass off there, pain. Move up. And this guy, Brumfield, that's his last name, he ate a peach and then threw it back into the bowl of peaches. And the CO was like, gross, dude, get off the line. And he moved me to. I got to go to the serving line right then and there. I was like, excuse me, boss. And I ran to the bathroom, dude, and broke down crying because it was just like. I knew it. I knew it, knew it. I've never known it more than that moment in my life. Never. And I wish I could hold on to that. But see, that.
Speaker C
What you. The. The last part that you said, because I know you, that's what got my attention, is you going to the bathroom and sobbing. Because you knew that. You knew that. You knew to me, that experience, because I trust you as a person, I'm like, yeah, there. There sounds like something Jed experienced supernatural. If I didn't know you, I would probably throw it up to random chance. Right? I probably would. You know, I don't want to honor.
Speaker D
Your experience, but would. Are we suggesting that God led Bromfield to eat a peach and throw it. And throw it into a. You know, I mean, it's an interesting thought. Like, Or.
Speaker B
Or did God know that that was about to happen and he stirred me to pray?
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker D
Yeah. There's lots of different ways.
Speaker B
There's a. There's a trillion different way. Different ways you could look at it. And if that's the case, then he was, like, giving me a chance to know that he was there. You know what I mean? Like, it it could have been a foreknowing or like an act without acting on the physical world. You know what I mean? It could have.
Speaker C
Can I open up?
Speaker B
I just thought of that, actually.
Speaker C
Can I open up a scroll and end it right here? Does anybody have any lingering thoughts?
Speaker E
Terrify. What you mean open a scroll?
Speaker A
It's just begun don't overthink this look in my eye don't be scared, don't be shy Come on in, the water's fine we're going to go Everybody knows Everybody knows knows Everybody knows We're going to go Everybody knows Everybody knows get your hands up. Get on out of your seats all eyes on me. All eyes on me. Get your hands up. Get on up to your seats. All eyes on me. Eyes on me. Hands down, pray for me Hands down now Pray for me get your hands up. Get on out of your seats. All eyes on me. All eyes on me. Are you feeling nervous? Are you having fun? It's almost over, it's just begun don't overthink this look in my eye don't be scared, don't be shy Come on in, the water's far say the ocean's rising Like I give a shit you say the whole world's ending honey, it already did. You're not gonna slow it. Heaven knows you tried God it good now get inside we're going to go where? Everybody knows. Everybody knows Everybody knows We're going to when I go Everybody knows Everybody knows get your hands up. Get on out of your seats. All eyes on me. Eyes on me. Get your hands up. Get on out of your seats. All eyes on me. All eyes on me. Hands down, pray for me Hands down now Pray for me, Hands down, pray for me Hands down. Pray for me Hands down, pray for me, hands down. Sam.
Topics Covered
Church and Other Drugs
podcast episode
prayer and God intervention
patreon support
Gulf of Mexico
American patriotism
flag etiquette
indoctrination of children
Dixie Chicks cancel culture
American pride
freedom of speech
cultural identity
historical mistakes of America
flag symbolism
patriotic fervor