Culture
Friends of Judy: A new oral history with lifelong Garland fans Andrea, Sean, & Devlyn
In this episode of 'Friends of Judy', lifelong Judy Garland fans Andrea, Sean, and Devlyn share their personal stories and experiences surrounding their love for the iconic star. The convers...
Friends of Judy: A new oral history with lifelong Garland fans Andrea, Sean, & Devlyn
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hi, you can listen to this full episode on my YouTube page at Queer Serial while I show you the entire Judy Garland scrapbook and a lot more history too.
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Join me over there and also check out QueerSerial.com slash Judy scrapbook.
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I always knew young Judy and Andy Hardie, Judy all that, but I think I saw her on a TV show after the chronicly haul record came out that was so successful and it was like from that night on I became obsessed.
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This was the first person that said to me what's wrong with being gay it was like so shocking that I went to the funeral and then Stonewall.
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Andrea Eisner was a young lesbian fresh from the closet when Judy Garland died in 1969.
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She spent her childhood in Miami collecting news clippings about her favorite star Judy and delicately placed them in a scrapbook which eventually ended up in a drawer in her Greenwich Village apartment for decades until one day she brought it out to show a couple of her friends and fellow Judy fans including me in 2023.
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Andrea and I met the year before in 22 at Judy Garland's house.
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It was the celebration of Judy's 100th birthday and people had come from all over the country to the Judy Garland Museum in Grand Rapids, Minnesota which is connected to Judy's childhood home.
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It's restored and preserved for people to tour the space where the gum sisters practiced their acts and lived their early years of their lives before Francis gum became Garland before her father was run out of town for being gay and before his youngest daughter hit the big time as a radio and film star.
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Her 100th birthday was a very special week for Judy fans. We were touring museum exhibits over and over walking through Judy's childhood home exploring her town, walking through the school her family attended her father's former theater and also Judy historian John Fricky brought his rare films of live performances.
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We were allowed to hold items inside the Judy Garland archive in the basement of her house which was ridiculous and incredible that they let us do that.
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And Judy's son Joey left signed autographs. We also had a high tea and my friend Joey won Best Male Hat and I won Best Female Hat.
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Judy's birthday is an annual gathering that has been happening there for decades. If you have any photos or footage from years past I'd love to see it and that museum should totally have a copy.
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Well upon arrival that week Joey and I got out of the car and I saw a clearly gay man sitting outside our hotel just next door to Judy's house wearing a hat covered in Garland images and playing her music on the hotel patio.
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Sean and I totally hit it off and became immediate friends and he introduced me to his good friend Andrea.
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We all hung out through that magical week and became good friends. Fortunately Andrea and I are New Yorkers and Sean lives close in Connecticut.
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The next year we met up again just us and our partners and another friend for our own private Garland gathering.
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Sean's house is a Judy museum itself and while the Grand Rapids exhibit does have quite a bit of great stuff especially from the Wizard of Oz,
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Sean has an especially great collection of Judy's entire catalog of work and merchandise which is displayed throughout his home.
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And then Andrea opens a little Oz reusable shopping bag that she brought revealing the item that upstaged everything her childhood scrapbook.
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Coming up you'll hear Andrea tell the story of how the scrapbook came to be and how her love of Judy shaped her life.
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As a teenager she added the final items to the scrapbook newspapers throughout the week of Judy's death which she collected around town while attending both Judy Garland's New York City funeral and the Stonewall riots.
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The day Andrea showed us her scrapbook I offered to use a few of the skills I've picked up in my short time archiving historic materials for gay activists like Randy Wicker to make sure that her creation is preserved for years to come.
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Andrea was so generous to trust me with her book and it was an honor to clean up and laminate this astonishing work of love.
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Hopefully one day it ends up in that Garland museum archive.
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We gathered again at Sean's Connecticut home slash private Judy museum a few weeks ago summer 2024 for Andrea to see the finished product and get her and Sean's stories on the record.
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Thanks for joining us I'm Devlin Camp you can listen to this and many other oral histories and explore my queer history archive dives on my Patreon at patreon.com slash queer cereal.
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Follow me on Instagram at queer cereal and learn more about my work at queer cereal.com.
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Thanks enjoy Andrea's story.
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I know I'll sing them all and we'll stay all night.
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What'd you get?
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What's the Judy Garland paint book?
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Shut up.
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Oh my god this is so cute.
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Check it out.
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Oh my god you gotta read it.
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It's just so funny.
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Judy left to go.
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Judy stands at the door for rambling white hats and a can in near Hollywood.
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Her favorite room is her bedroom sitting room with its twin devons in front of the fireplace.
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Judy Garland cartoons.
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This is incredible.
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And then there's another two of them.
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Wow.
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It's not a different one.
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You can see every page.
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You're okay.
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You know it's 19th or 19th.
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Just a yawn.
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Oh my god this is really a fine.
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Oh my goodness.
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Judy selects a sport stress for morning wear.
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Because she has time.
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This is a hot.
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Not skill illustrations.
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Man I love you.
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I know I know.
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Hands on.
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Her stress.
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Oh.
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Judy guessed about it at night at clock and she is making a picture.
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So this is the last page.
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She prefers sports clothes.
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That's it.
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That's the end.
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Please give it a big hug.
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Who is she really?
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We have a few of them.
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Wow.
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That's a fine book.
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Yeah.
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Did you find these all together?
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No.
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I bought them separately.
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Then I forgot I bought one.
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But I bought one really cheap so I could color it.
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If you want to look at that too.
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I do color it all over.
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People left their names in here.
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Yeah.
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From Michigan.
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Birthday to age 12.
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Birthday December 17th, 1940.
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Is that right?
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Irene.
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Terri Sober.
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Favorite bill of Michigan.
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I bet you knew that already.
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I know.
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No.
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This is so sweet.
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Oh, you see you can cut the mail.
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Yeah.
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I think they're in the bathroom.
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Oh, wait a minute.
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Wait a minute.
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Fashion.
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Wait.
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So how do you do this?
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Oh, my car.
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So my color these in.
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Yeah.
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In 1940 or in the 40s apparently.
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Wait.
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Do this stuff up.
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And then now it's the phone and all together.
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You know, I painted it this morning for Judy Day.
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I love the color.
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I'm going to paint a little, uh,
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little Ruby Slipper moment.
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So we're doing the big reveal.
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Oh, yeah.
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Look at this.
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Are you ready for the big reveal?
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I am.
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Okay.
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Here's the big reveal.
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I only put it in this mysterious package because Andrea said,
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let's do a big reveal.
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I was like, well, now I'll dress it up.
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But I know it's worth it.
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I love the wrap.
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I did put my heart into it.
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I had so much fun doing this.
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And it was one of those things where it was like,
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I had to do it in many stages over different days.
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Because it was like, oh, now I realize there's a new supply.
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And I haven't tried this type of paper.
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So I was like, gaining new archival skills while I was doing it.
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So it was okay.
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It was an honor to do it.
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It was really cool.
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You collected something really like, uh, magical.
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Here we go.
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Andrea, I'll let you do the honors.
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She's all yours.
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I know.
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Goodness.
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Just for packaging, that's the Wizard of Oz bag.
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You've got the book in.
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Absolutely.
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The original.
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Wow, look at you.
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Look at you.
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Okay.
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I'll get back to the box.
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Oh, whoa.
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This is so cool.
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God, this is just this brings back.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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You are incredible.
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You're a new type of boy.
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You are so sweet.
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Thank you so much.
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Of course it was an honor.
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You know, I kind of, I asked you a few questions when we were emailing back and forth over it.
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I was like, do you have any plans for this scrapbook, you know, on your death?
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We were, were you going to send it?
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So I was trying to get some little details to put in there.
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So that way the plans all worked in doing.
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You don't even have to think about it.
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Spectacular.
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This is awesome.
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Wow.
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Oh, wow.
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How wonderful.
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Oh, my goodness.
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So everything is mostly in the place where you first put it.
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And I tried to leave as many sort of markings to show how you originally did it.
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Like some of them had already fallen out, you know, over time, those little framed things, but I put a lot of them in, even though I took things out to blend it.
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And I just want to show like what your process was before it was preserved.
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And I love how the order of it kind of tells a story.
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It does.
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Reading each piece, you kind of watch duty fall apart and come back together and fall apart.
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I know.
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I know.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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I, uh,
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so I was around 13 or 14, 15 and I had my parents yet I insisted three newspapers a day so that I could, uh,
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I think I could cut out articles and stay on top of it.
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So this is the Miami news, the Miami Herald, and probably the Orlando sent all those.
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Those were the three big papers.
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This is crazy.
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Yeah, there was a day to day there at the time.
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I remember.
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So you were collecting duty clippings every day from three papers?
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Yes.
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I was.
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You were saying I was obsessed.
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Whether other celebrities are just duty.
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You can sell different papers too because they'll be from the same date if you clip the date in there and the same sort of photos like these.
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Yeah.
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But the story is told a little differently.
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So I figured I was like, is it from like maybe a day later when the same papers are porting on it?
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But now I'm realizing, yeah, it's just the same story reported by different papers on the same.
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That is so cute.
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I love that you did that.
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Look at this.
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Look at this.
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That's not like that.
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It looks so much like Liza.
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Former Wonder Woman.
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Yes.
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Oh my god.
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She was breaking my heart there.
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Out of danger.
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Yay, jury came back.
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Wow.
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This is incredible.
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So this is all new.
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This is all new.
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This is all new.
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No, these are your original pages.
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These are acid free.
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So they're safe.
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But like the newspapers themselves, they're made so cheaply that they're rich with assets.
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That's why newspaper breaks down so quickly.
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Right.
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And so putting them in the elimination stops that.
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But the pages that you already had in there were perfectly fine.
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And I wanted to keep like, so if you were to lift it off, they're just Scotch taped in.
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But you can see that that's where you had her in the frame.
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Oh.
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I love that.
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The other things I moved were like if they were too long, I might have turned them sideways or flipped them to a different page.
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But you're just very smart here.
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And you taped in.
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You did a really good job taping in the date on to an article if it was from 1964.
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Oh, thanks for noticing that.
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You should know that you're doing a good job.
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You were keeping all the details in there.
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15.
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Yeah, no.
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I was obsessed.
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I was three days old.
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Wow.
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Oh, my God.
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Thank you for that.
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What was it about her like we've got to use and be so obsessed?
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You know, I was I watched that that CD that we just mentioned earlier.
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The song from American.
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And again, it happened that incredible vulnerability she shows in one of those songs was just unbelievable.
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And it just brought out her broke your heart.
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I like it torture Judy, by the way.
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So I love all the early Judy stuff, but I really it kicked in for me around 61.
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So oh yeah, look at this.
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Judy Garland treated for wrist injuries.
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Yeah.
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I think I must have seen her promote.
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I always knew young Judy Andy, hardy, Judy, all that, but I think I saw her on a TV show after the Carnegie Hall record came out that was so successful.
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And it was like from that night on I became obsessed.
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Judy puts beetles in a back seat.
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At some point there's a headline that's like Judy riots or something.
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It was like cops brace for the Judy riots.
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Little Joey.
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So handsome.
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This was my favorite photo of her that you have in looks almost like a mug shot.
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It's a full touch.
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And the folded hands.
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It's very powerful.
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It's very determined isn't it?
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She's how she's leaving a court hearing.
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I wonder what happened.
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Is she happier?
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And that she's an unbalanced person.
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The happy day of the claim has attempted suicide more than 20 times.
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Oh, wow.
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Those are our fabulous.
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Yeah.
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With Chris and Peter Allen.
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Oh my god.
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The fun time.
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Oh yeah.
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Oh fabulous.
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Oh wow.
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She got a little spotlight over here.
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I'm a shun.
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Look at you.
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These are great.
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Look at this.
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This is unbelievable.
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Oh, look at this.
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Wow.
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Of all the photos that we all have of Judy 100.
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There's not a single one of you and me and their Andrea.
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And we spent so much time.
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I couldn't find a single picture with me and Andrea the same photo.
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But there's a lot of you with Sean and with Marilyn of course.
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Just beautiful.
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Oh wow.
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You know what's missing from this photo?
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I thought when you guys left.
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We didn't put the.
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The cutout.
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Oh, we should have put the Judy.
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Yeah.
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And then we left him.
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Oh my god.
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We were so excited about the Judy cake.
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Oh.
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The Judy tree is so magnet.
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It's a.
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The.
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The.
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The.
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The.
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You did.
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Yeah.
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My friend Jacob.
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I went to his house around Christmas time when he had that tree covered in the fly's
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of an L.A.
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Pictures.
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Oh really?
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How in the same year.
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I saw a Judy and Eliza tree.
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Cool.
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I'm in this grapple.
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A little bit of the process of pulling Judy out with tweezers there.
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So it was so delicate getting some of those out of the frames.
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Now we're really, really so much friends.
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I'm really, really proud of the fact that I'm a little bit more than her funeral.
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Yeah.
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I remember it.
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Wow.
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This is.
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This is the process.
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Yeah.
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We've been taking pictures of me and my pajamas that he later said.
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And I was like, oh wow.
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We should have put these in there because it's like the whole.
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Lovely.
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A whole process.
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My god.
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You scanned all that?
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Yeah.
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So everything.
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I have a digital version.
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I'm going to put all of that with the digital version on a flash drive to give to you.
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Okay.
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Also just have her download it.
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That's cool.
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Oh, that would be great.
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Yeah.
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That would be great.
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Will it work on my A track?
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Oh, it's a beautiful.
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That is just spectacular.
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Thank you so much for that.
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Thank you for letting me do it with an honor.
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Whoa.
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You know, I just.
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As soon as you whipped it out, I was like,
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I can't not pass up begging to do something without scrap.
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Okay.
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It was such a beautiful work of art that you put together.
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Right over.
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And the crowning joy, the crowning, the crown was when we saw Debbie Wildman this past time we saw her.
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Oh, a corny.
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A corny-key hall.
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And I kissed Judy's ring.
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Yeah.
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Was she wearing Judy's ring?
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Yeah.
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Oh, it's fabulous.
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Yeah.
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No, I have a great shot of actually kissing Judy own.
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It's that ring that she always, you know, with the flowers.
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The pearls.
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Well, we got to get that picture into the scrap.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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It was like unbelievable.
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So here's the rest of it.
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You've got your, you just got them in acid pre-folders so that they're preserved.
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And I didn't want to like, cut them up and put them into the scrapbook because you.
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To save the full newspaper each day of the week she died, which is so cool.
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I couldn't cut them up or do anything to them like that.
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Wow.
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So here's all your movie star news.
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Wow.
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Which has some little clips of Judy, of course.
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Right.
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A lot that you are collecting now is and then this one off of Liza.
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Oh.
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I'm not even sure what publication it's from.
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You've noticed.
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All right.
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But you got Liza on the backside.
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Oh, my God.
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And then these are in chronological order of the week she died.
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And each one's labeled now.
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So you don't have to take it out to see what's what.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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Oh, that's beautiful.
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Wow.
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Thank you so much.
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This deaf, I want to call it eight.
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Eight cents.
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Eight cents.
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This was quite a week.
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That was quite a week.
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What happened that week?
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Why were you like running around town collecting newspaper or do you have your parents pick them up?
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How did you collect those?
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No, I was in New York.
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It's a crazy story that.
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Yeah, no, it was the first experience.
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I've been here for a year and a half started sort of hanging out with a gay crowd.
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I kept denying that I was gay.
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And the evening that I had my first relationship, intimate relationship with a female, it was like a big deal in terms of like I've said no, no, no.
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And in this particular apartment, the radio was always on all night.
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So I woke up very early and heard Judy Garland has died in London.
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So, and this was sort of a place where there were several people kind of hanging out, sleeping whatever.
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So I went running at the apartment and everybody thought it was because I had had that experience.
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And it was because I had to go be by myself.
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I just absolutely couldn't believe that.
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I remember that.
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And then coming back down, I went up town, I came back downtown.
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And the next that I went to the funeral.
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And then Stonewall.
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This was the first person that said to me, what's wrong with being gay?
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It was like so shocking.
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And then very quickly after that, Stonewall happened.
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It was like, oh, I guess everybody knows it but me.
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I mean, I really thought it was only the branching and then all of a sudden I see you going, you know, this community come together in the village.
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So it's all, and I refuse to give into the idea that her death and her funeral did not have something to do with the Stonewall riots.
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I refuse to believe that.
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I know all the historians at this point think they debunked that.
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What are the odds?
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I mean, what are the odds that was a coincidence?
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So from then on, that's always been, you know, Judy Stonewall and my obsession with you to go and continue.
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So you picked up the papers every single day throughout the week, right?
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No, no.
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Much of that was when I was living in Hong Kong with my parents before I moved to New York.
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And they would give me three papers a day.
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So I could keep my scrapbook going.
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That's fabulous.
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And then when I came to New York, I kind of didn't do it.
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And then when she died, I collected the papers that day.
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But I was not continuing it.
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I sort of ended it in 1967 and picked it up in 1969.
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And then threw it in his drawer.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I remember the funeral.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You went to the funeral.
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You went to the funeral.
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You went to the funeral.
spk_0
Incredibly long line.
spk_0
First time I...
spk_0
Oh, wow.
spk_0
This is like saying, this is the first time I saw an arm of you.
spk_0
But it actually was the first time I saw a portable record player.
spk_0
And people in line playing, you know, playing Carnegie Hall as we waited in line.
spk_0
And then the line was endless and it was really hot.
spk_0
But people stuck it out when we did that.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So that news footage of the Sea of People out there, you're out there.
spk_0
Oh, absolutely.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
You know, I wish I could think of her name.
spk_0
Sell your crews.
spk_0
Sell your crews.
spk_0
If you look out, her funeral was the first funeral to surpass the crowd that came
spk_0
for Judy Gohan's funeral at the Frank Campbell home.
spk_0
And she might have died.
spk_0
She must have died.
spk_0
Sell your crews?
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
She died about, it must be 20 years now, 15, 20 years.
spk_0
But all that time nobody had gathered the amount of people that came for Judy Gohan's funeral.
spk_0
spk_0
Did you see her body?
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
I do.
spk_0
Yes, I do remember seeing the body.
spk_0
Small.
spk_0
Oh, there was her body.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I can't imagine that.
spk_0
Especially if someone that you've like idolized or something like this.
spk_0
Did you look different?
spk_0
spk_0
It was a doll like that, I think.
spk_0
Really?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Fascinating.
spk_0
So, were you followed?
spk_0
It was a sad time.
spk_0
And then it was a joyous time because then stone will happen.
spk_0
And that was like, yeah.
spk_0
So, were you, um, that heard you like reference being around at that time, were you at any of the like riots at Stonewall?
spk_0
Like the night it broke out?
spk_0
No, I know because the Stonewall riots was like all weekend.
spk_0
So, like, well, where were you, what were you up to?
spk_0
What were you participating in?
spk_0
spk_0
I know it was kind of all over.
spk_0
Ironic that you asked me that.
spk_0
Um, so the Christopher Street.
spk_0
spk_0
And, uh, so I was there with Dolly, who actually just passed away last week.
spk_0
Um, I was there with her and she's showing me the ropes kind of like the gay ground and everything.
spk_0
And one of her friends that was out came to the house and said,
spk_0
the queens are riding down at the Stonewall.
spk_0
And we apparently went down there and we were basically staring standing across from the Stonewall.
spk_0
You know, and just cheering them on is the patty wagons.
spk_0
It was, it was no big deal to see the patty wagons.
spk_0
But then this was like getting to Maltreus.
spk_0
Um, and that's pretty much what I remember about that.
spk_0
What also happened that same period of time, like that same few weeks in my life,
spk_0
was that I had started smoking pot.
spk_0
No.
spk_0
So, I will tell you the truth of the matter is, is all I remember about the Stonewall,
spk_0
uh, uprisings was standing across from the bar and watching,
spk_0
producing this happening in the street and cheering on the drag queens.
spk_0
And that's pretty much what I remember of that whole time.
spk_0
Wow. That's fabulous.
spk_0
I'm with that sit.
spk_0
And were there other people in your life that were you would like met the gay crowd that were also thinking about Judy during that time?
spk_0
Uh, during that time.
spk_0
And that's kind of a niche interest that you had at that time.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I knew that a my immediate crowd no, but I knew that that at that point,
spk_0
I think I knew that she was known to have a whole essential audience.
spk_0
That's about as educated as I was at that point.
spk_0
spk_0
Oh, I also knew that that drag queens love her and that that was what that was about.
spk_0
Of course, no, absolutely.
spk_0
Yeah. But I think back in the 60s, I used to think more of,
spk_0
I guess the people that the guys that attended Carnegie Hall with the time that I did of, uh,
spk_0
of the whole gay community at that time.
spk_0
But the drag queens I know I actually saw a play about it, uh,
spk_0
whether it was just like, that was their last,
spk_0
again, on my last network.
spk_0
I see a good coming from it.
spk_0
It's like whether Judy's death contributed directly or indirectly to the riots.
spk_0
It's like a very tumultuous time.
spk_0
It's literally the hottest period of the year and like with the politics of the time and the attack on the gay community constantly with bar rates like that.
spk_0
I totally understand what you mean when you're saying like, how could there be a coincidence that the anger of all of these things contributed to a riot.
spk_0
Sure. Sure. It did.
spk_0
Um, and that was the larger part than any other part.
spk_0
So I believe that, um, it really were the drag queens that just said enough is enough.
spk_0
And that was enough. There had been raids before and all.
spk_0
Um, it's too much, it's just too much of a coincidence.
spk_0
I mean, it's like, you got my last nerve.
spk_0
Did you experience the bar rate before or after that?
spk_0
Sorry.
spk_0
Did you ever experience the bar rate?
spk_0
Did I before or after?
spk_0
No.
spk_0
No, I never have experience of our right now.
spk_0
Uh, but still be a Rivera was a person on the street.
spk_0
I remember her being at the Stonewall riots.
spk_0
Um, and apparently there's also, uh, uh, another story where it was all lesbian through the first punch or something.
spk_0
You know, there's like a contradiction going on about who did it a drag queen or what?
spk_0
Right. It's very unclear because there was a butch person getting arrested who some people say was stormy to larvier and some people say wasn't.
spk_0
But stormy was a very light skinned person of color and they say like, oh, this book person was black.
spk_0
No, she was white.
spk_0
It's like, well, everyone's got a different perspective on who that is.
spk_0
So it's like, maybe it was stormy. Maybe it wasn't.
spk_0
Maybe it was a bulldog.
spk_0
Maybe it was a trans guy.
spk_0
Maybe it was a man.
spk_0
Like it's, it's, uh, very widely disputed who that was.
spk_0
Um, at least in David Carter's Stonewall look.
spk_0
Um, but yeah, I mean, what you're describing totally sounds like, uh, what everyone experienced, like cheering on from the outside, you know, like laughing up the crowd.
spk_0
And just like a key, like any other normal night until it gets out of control.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
But I refused to believe that it didn't have something to do with the fact that I think the funeral was in 94 wasn't it?
spk_0
As I said, I first started smoking pots.
spk_0
Right. You know, you went to the other.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Sometimes we got a rose and so on.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And so one of my very favorite posters that I see, which is the picture of Zagaya.
spk_0
Uh, we see it at the Pride Marks and it has a poster that has a picture of Judy, the same picture that Shawn has on his arm.
spk_0
And it says, Judy through the first brick.
spk_0
That's my favorite.
spk_0
That's my absolute favorite for sure.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Were you, did you ever get involved in any active at the event?
spk_0
Like you mentioned, Sylvia Rivera, were you involved in that community at all?
spk_0
Or just watching?
spk_0
There was a place, Christmas tree, you walked up and down Christmas.
spk_0
The sequence that was really the center of the gay community and Sylvia Rivera was often on the street as well as Marcia Johnson.
spk_0
It was the guys cruised it, but it was also fun to watch, to walk and watch the guys cruise it.
spk_0
They were all very attractive and that's where the bars were.
spk_0
So that's what you did.
spk_0
And Sylvia Rivera and Marcia Johnson were there all the time.
spk_0
Wow. Yeah.
spk_0
So yeah.
spk_0
That's love.
spk_0
Or can.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Have you lived in the village or around the village since then?
spk_0
Since 1968.
spk_0
That's love.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
She was in Chelsea 16th Street and then the village, yeah.
spk_0
So Dalley was with you?
spk_0
So Dalley was with you that night?
spk_0
He said she was.
spk_0
And was that the person you would had your first lesbian experience with?
spk_0
Exactly.
spk_0
Oh my god, that's so beautiful.
spk_0
No, just passed away.
spk_0
Like last week.
spk_0
We've been texting since then.
spk_0
Every day.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So yeah.
spk_0
So this is ironic.
spk_0
And I would say that probably a quarter of my good stuff, my memorabilia has all the things
spk_0
she's picked out to, like those records and all of you know, she, yeah, we had that
spk_0
Judy Garland connection as well.
spk_0
She didn't love Judy Garland, but she 100% supported the fact that I love Judy Garland.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
And I called her my mentor because she taught me the way of New York.
spk_0
And if I had not been hanging out that night with her, I don't think I would have walked
spk_0
down to those riots.
spk_0
You know, and then I don't know what was in it.
spk_0
Certainly the first Christopher Street march after that before it was Greg Pride march with
spk_0
the Christopher Street march was like the first time I saw, wow, this is like a large
spk_0
community.
spk_0
This really did kick something off.
spk_0
This is not just what I always see on Christopher Street hanging out.
spk_0
So it was exhilarating, absolutely exhilarating.
spk_0
Did you walk all the way to Central Park?
spk_0
Oh yeah, yeah.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Were you one of the people running around naked?
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, that's me.
spk_0
What?
spk_0
No, there's a little footage of that day that looks like people being sat free for the first
spk_0
time that everyone looks so joyful.
spk_0
Oh, exhilarating.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I think it did it end in sheep metal.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And to go there and just to see like real people, not necessarily people that on the street,
spk_0
you would immediately identify as gay, just like it was like this blended kind of a situation.
spk_0
It was just incredible.
spk_0
It was absolutely incredible.
spk_0
Have you got a Pride regularly?
spk_0
Yes, absolutely.
spk_0
I think I've missed maybe three.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It was a march and then it became a parade and it's for a long time there.
spk_0
The parade wasn't so.
spk_0
It was, you know, it lost kind of its meaning.
spk_0
I always would go to the front of the parade so I could see the elected officials in either
spk_0
voodoo or applaud them.
spk_0
But other than that, all the floats and everything after a while got exhaustive.
spk_0
Yes, very corporate now.
spk_0
Oh, it went that.
spk_0
Not just now.
spk_0
It's.
spk_0
Yeah, last what, 20, 30 years really.
spk_0
It's taken a turn.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
spk_0
So, you know, we usually go to the anti-the reclaimed parade march.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
It's just about to say we should go to that.
spk_0
Because I'm always trying to gather a group of the re, that's not, is there some liberatings?
spk_0
That's the first pride I've ever experienced that felt like, like what I saw in that footage
spk_0
of 1970 where everyone's walking in the street and it is a crowd of all ages.
spk_0
All races, all genders, like it's everybody and you're not like looking at the AT&T logo
spk_0
and ring bow.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah.
spk_0
You get to walk with people.
spk_0
You follow the long way to the end.
spk_0
All the way to the end.
spk_0
Oh, and where did it terminate?
spk_0
At that year, that was 21 in New York and it ended up, the Christopher Fears or like,
spk_0
you know, in the village area.
spk_0
I can also recall when the police department, when they first, what language may that was,
spk_0
when they first put a purple line down the march, the march route, they did a purple
spk_0
lane, which was an acknowledgement that this was, they used their paint for us.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
That's really a...
spk_0
To make a lane for us to march.
spk_0
That was a real turning point of recognition, I think.
spk_0
So talk to Sean.
spk_0
I'm, I'm exhausted, dear.
spk_0
And, unlike Sean, I only have maybe five, five or six shelves of Judy memorabilia.
spk_0
It's friendship, friendship, just a perfect friendship.
spk_0
When other friendships have been forgotten, ours will still be hot.
spk_0
All our loves, all our sick big days.
spk_0
Sean, oh.
spk_0
spk_0
Well, what was the first thing you collect?
spk_0
I'm very curious how your collection began.
spk_0
It's really magnificent.
spk_0
The first, you know.
spk_0
I would probably have to say the first was the palace album, 1967.
spk_0
That was how I discovered her.
spk_0
So that would have been the first, the first piece, I guess.
spk_0
That was when you were a kid, right?
spk_0
Yeah, I was like going into third grade.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
How did you come across?
spk_0
I told you the story before, but tell me again.
spk_0
So I bought this Donnie Marie Osmond album, but it was not Donnie Marie singing their songs.
spk_0
It was somebody else.
spk_0
And I, that wasn't happening.
spk_0
I went on Donnie Marie or nothing.
spk_0
So I went back to Woolworths right over here and I exchanged a record of the only person I knew was Judy Garland.
spk_0
Just because of the Wizard of Oz.
spk_0
So I got the record and took it home and played it.
spk_0
And that was, that was it.
spk_0
That did it.
spk_0
Played that record over and over and over and over.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And it turned to gay.
spk_0
Wow, man.
spk_0
It did.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
She groomed you.
spk_0
She groomed me.
spk_0
Yeah, she did.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
It must have been the paisley suit that she wore.
spk_0
I'm sure you would have stumbled into her somehow in the culture, but I'm like,
spk_0
you wait to find her.
spk_0
But yeah, I mean.
spk_0
And the album cover was, it was her face.
spk_0
It was like the Andy Warhol print.
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
And I'm like, it looked nothing like Judy, like Dorothy Gale.
spk_0
Is this a little boy on that?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's a little short haircut, right?
spk_0
And I read the liner notes and I just, I was just trying to picture what she looked like.
spk_0
And then here in her talk on the album was nothing like the Wizard of Oz voice.
spk_0
So.
spk_0
And then I went to the library that summer and found everything else
spk_0
about her.
spk_0
I started to research and everything.
spk_0
Like, um, Friday albums or books or books.
spk_0
Books.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And again, what age?
spk_0
Going to set, how old was it?
spk_0
I was going to third grade.
spk_0
So what was I?
spk_0
The same to be.
spk_0
Nine.
spk_0
Eight or nine?
spk_0
Yeah, probably eight or nine.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
That is remarkable.
spk_0
And then the movie Rainbow came out on TV that November.
spk_0
So it was that summer before.
spk_0
And I know that because I just had, I just saw Andrea McCartle who played Judy Garland
spk_0
in the movie and I had her sign some ads for the movie and they were dated.
spk_0
They were on the TV guide.
spk_0
And it was like 1977.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's definitely Rainbow, Mr. Blunder, my.
spk_0
I did.
spk_0
That's so cool.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It did?
spk_0
Well, yeah.
spk_0
I mean, that age.
spk_0
I was like, I didn't do it.
spk_0
You see it, right?
spk_0
Yeah, I did.
spk_0
I just watched it.
spk_0
Yeah, it's bad.
spk_0
I mean, that kind of did was bad back then, but that's all you had.
spk_0
But it's not door to door.
spk_0
I can't see.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
No, it's not.
spk_0
I mean, that's how I learned to love Dina and all that.
spk_0
So how did your fascination with her continue on as you got over there?
spk_0
Just, just loved her, just the music.
spk_0
I just kept buying records.
spk_0
Mostly a Bible collection when I started.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And then just if I found anything on her, buy it or read it or, you know, magazines.
spk_0
So this is a lifetime of work in here.
spk_0
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I mean, it looks like you have every vinyl that must, I mean, I'm trying to reach this
spk_0
level with my vinyl duty collection, but yours is, and that you've made boxes for her
spk_0
is really incredible.
spk_0
The author's a photos.
spk_0
Do you have all the records?
spk_0
You know, I, there's something I don't have.
spk_0
But like, I look at Eddie Bay and everything on eBay.
spk_0
Do you have the letter with the letter?
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Oh, wow.
spk_0
spk_0
It was so expensive with the duty.
spk_0
It was.
spk_0
Did I even pay that like everything I find, like I don't pay more than, like I've really
spk_0
paid over $100 for anything.
spk_0
Just, I, I just find it and I buy it.
spk_0
Yeah, the letter with the letter.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
I cleaned out their records at the museum.
spk_0
You did really good.
spk_0
You had a pile.
spk_0
I cleaned the hell.
spk_0
I remember.
spk_0
Yeah, it was great.
spk_0
And they shipped so cheaply back to New York.
spk_0
You said it was like $13, $15.
spk_0
It was something ridiculous.
spk_0
I was like, this post office.
spk_0
What a ripoff.
spk_0
I can't believe what I'm getting away with here.
spk_0
And then we walked out of the post office and down the mother fucking yellow brick road.
spk_0
Did you see that yellow brick road?
spk_0
No, I didn't.
spk_0
I noticed that.
spk_0
It was really cute.
spk_0
It's outside this school, I guess, duty went to.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Or a family went to, I don't know.
spk_0
But it's on this corner.
spk_0
And it's like a circle with the yellow brick road.
spk_0
And there are little bricks where people had like paid to have their name put in there.
spk_0
We have a brick.
spk_0
You know we have a brick, right?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You have a brick, you do?
spk_0
At the museum.
spk_0
Really?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Oh, inside the museum on there, yellow brick.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, yeah.
spk_0
That's so cool.
spk_0
I know that.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Oh, I would have looked for it when we were there.
spk_0
That's really lovely.
spk_0
We do.
spk_0
We do.
spk_0
spk_0
We do.
spk_0
Tell me the story of how you two met.
spk_0
We were at Fercliffe.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
And there was this other guy there who was telling news.
spk_0
How many times had you been going there before?
spk_0
Quite a bit.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It was just great.
spk_0
spk_0
I was.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Good.
spk_0
No.
spk_0
And I was there.
spk_0
You were there first and you were talking to these two gentlemen.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
One guy was there.
spk_0
Stragic.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
How Judy saved his life and his dad was like abusive and he would go in the basement and
spk_0
lay Judy record.
spk_0
I mean, so and then Andrea came.
spk_0
Thank God.
spk_0
So I'm in the mood.
spk_0
Who did you come with?
spk_0
John and Jay.
spk_0
John and Jay.
spk_0
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And we all sat there talking about Judy, all of us.
spk_0
And then he had a teacher on from I remember.
spk_0
He was a sad carer here and he had a teacher on from the museum.
spk_0
Oh, we did.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Oh, all right.
spk_0
I did remember that.
spk_0
spk_0
All right.
spk_0
I remember that.
spk_0
This is the first time I actually, I mean, I've been going, I worked in the Bronx.
spk_0
So I would go there with John and we always invite another person and tour that little
spk_0
area of Furn and Cliff and go and sit.
spk_0
And we never sit by her, her internment space there and we never rarely ran into anybody.
spk_0
And so then all of a sudden this time we counted.
spk_0
It was meant to be and then Sean's there.
spk_0
And this one's going on about, you know, who's depression.
spk_0
He saved one for.
spk_0
spk_0
And Sean's kind of bringing it up and then trying to work hard bringing the story up.
spk_0
And then you actually said, I need to outside and smoke.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
But then at a certain point, I got to see his tattoo and that was it was, it was like
spk_0
totally.
spk_0
And then we left it's beautiful.
spk_0
It's beautiful.
spk_0
Judy tattoo.
spk_0
She left it.
spk_0
She left it and I left and I was hoping to meet her because I wanted to talk to her some
spk_0
more.
spk_0
I was hoping to meet in the park and your car was coming around.
spk_0
And I rolled down the window and said, I rolled down the window, right?
spk_0
I put the window down and said, do you want to have lunch?
spk_0
spk_0
And I said, yeah.
spk_0
So we went to this Italian restaurant.
spk_0
But you knew about.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And we all had lunch and then we made plans to go to Chila two nights later.
spk_0
And the food was there.
spk_0
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And we met at Chila.
spk_0
But yeah.
spk_0
And then here we are.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That is so sweet.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I told her, it was like you want to meet in the city.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
I knew he lived in Connecticut.
spk_0
I thought, oh, he's really into this.
spk_0
And yeah.
spk_0
Two nights later we saw the visit.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
We went out to eat.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Simon Leckeckney was next to us at the table.
spk_0
Who was?
spk_0
She, the understudy for Chila, who was the original cast in a course line, which I knew she
spk_0
was the understudy.
spk_0
I'm like, I mean, she'll be the ad in a course line CD.
spk_0
But I'm looking at him.
spk_0
I'm like, isn't it really her?
spk_0
And I was like, try to get her friends attention to go with this hurt.
spk_0
And then she came out of the stage going up.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That was.
spk_0
Oh my god.
spk_0
It was funny.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
You're very good at getting autographs.
spk_0
He is totally.
spk_0
He is.
spk_0
He is.
spk_0
And I don't know how it happens.
spk_0
But there's always an event when you're out.
spk_0
Sean.
spk_0
There's always something like that.
spk_0
And he's like, oh, I just happen to have my Julie Andrews record.
spk_0
What?
spk_0
That's good.
spk_0
We'll take my archives with me.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Why are you up to the other night with Marilyn Mae?
spk_0
We're almost in the right one.
spk_0
What a skill.
spk_0
What a skill.
spk_0
It's really paid off, obviously.
spk_0
This whole, like, you're donning of a recollection.
spk_0
You showed us last time just the astonishing work as well.
spk_0
Like, that's your own separate other huge collection.
spk_0
spk_0
That was the first obsession.
spk_0
And also, I'm really curious why there were albums of people covering Donningham re-songs.
spk_0
I don't know.
spk_0
It was like, they guess they were popular.
spk_0
It was like, you know, sung by the...
spk_0
So and so singers.
spk_0
And that's very strange.
spk_0
The album was called the Donningham re-song book.
spk_0
And it was a picture of their feet.
spk_0
Like, that's tricky.
spk_0
And I was like, oh, Grail had this album.
spk_0
And I, you know, I'm like, a homer.
spk_0
And I was like, no, no, no, no.
spk_0
It's a scam.
spk_0
Even back then, I was like, I have to have the real thing right.
spk_0
I don't want to.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And then we found Judy.
spk_0
So you met...
spk_0
That was Judy's birthday when you met at her grave, right?
spk_0
spk_0
And then how did you end up going to her?
spk_0
What was the other grave site?
spk_0
Like, I haven't been there.
spk_0
Oh, that was cool.
spk_0
And Hollywood forever.
spk_0
Oh.
spk_0
And they moved.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's beautiful.
spk_0
And it looks really pretty.
spk_0
The only thing I've seen of it is that photo that we put in this video.
spk_0
Now we have a...
spk_0
Now I think we have like a plexiglass in front of it.
spk_0
So like, you can't go to the...
spk_0
Stone itself.
spk_0
Well, remember, I was really surprised that they let us because I'd gone the year before.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
We went there and we weren't...
spk_0
We couldn't go in.
spk_0
And then the next year we went, you just walked around and went right out and put your flowers right there.
spk_0
So now they've...
spk_0
Oh, that breaks my heart.
spk_0
They had to put something up there.
spk_0
They put something up.
spk_0
Damn it.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Other people near her yet?
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Not her family.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Not her family.
spk_0
But...
spk_0
So like, you're walking in there as all these people are wherever they are.
spk_0
And then you have her grape up behind.
spk_0
There's a wall and there's all these...
spk_0
Meaches?
spk_0
I guess.
spk_0
Which you can buy for $50,000 and have your little shrine near Judy.
spk_0
In the Judy growing...
spk_0
In the Judy growing pavilion.
spk_0
That's what you can do that.
spk_0
And then I would...
spk_0
Am I right that she's...
spk_0
I mean, her internment is this way and the family will be built up that way.
spk_0
spk_0
Oh, I see.
spk_0
And some of them, of course, are very cute.
spk_0
The little displaced.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So you get some really nice arms there.
spk_0
I have pictures, I think.
spk_0
But it's more accessible, which I support.
spk_0
And it's beautiful.
spk_0
It's really beautiful.
spk_0
And so there...
spk_0
I mean, you really had to search out to see where she was in Ferncliffe.
spk_0
And Ferncliffe is totally unadorned.
spk_0
It's very, you know, stripped down basic.
spk_0
A lot, Harold Arlin is buried there.
spk_0
Yeah, I've been there a long time.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting place.
spk_0
But this has some grandeur to it.
spk_0
And I think she deserved that.
spk_0
Was the original Ferncliffe was she just in the ground with the tombstone?
spk_0
No, no.
spk_0
In turn into the wall.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Into the wall.
spk_0
I see.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And, you know, not different from anybody else.
spk_0
Which was kind of cool in the beginning of having to search around.
spk_0
Totally.
spk_0
It's kind of an niche thing.
spk_0
And that's also very cool to have Ferncliffe is that you'll be walking in all of this sudden.
spk_0
You know, there was Harold Arlin.
spk_0
The same as the person next to him.
spk_0
Nothing grand.
spk_0
Did you go there?
spk_0
Did you say you were going there every year?
spk_0
Oh, I went to a year.
spk_0
I was going to have to year.
spk_0
I'm so stupid.
spk_0
spk_0
I try to listen to the Carnegie Album every year on the anniversary.
spk_0
Uh-huh.
spk_0
That's because that's what I really remember, like, falling in love with her over the Carnegie Album.
spk_0
That's not a little thing.
spk_0
I like to revisit.
spk_0
Absolutely.
spk_0
I think that's absolutely the time to.
spk_0
There was a Judy-Gol-in Rose.
spk_0
There is a Judy-Gol-in Rose.
spk_0
And there used to be a garden outside Ferncliffe.
spk_0
And there used to be a couple of scragglies.
spk_0
But, uh, it was the Judy-Gol-in Rose garden.
spk_0
But other than that, it was very unadorned as opposed to a forever Hollywood cemetery.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So nice.
spk_0
It looks leak about pictures.
spk_0
Oh, it's really so fascinating.
spk_0
Wonderful.
spk_0
Yeah, whatever.
spk_0
The next time I'm there.
spk_0
Wonderful.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, you're beautiful.
spk_0
Oh, yeah.
spk_0
I mean, what's beautiful?
spk_0
It's better on-
spk_0
But you can see all the-
spk_0
All the puppies in the room.
spk_0
Thank you, Judy-Gol-in Rose.
spk_0
You're a white-
spk_0
Judy sweater.
spk_0
So, uh, like, Liza-Lorna and Joey-
spk_0
I bet that's it, right?
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Oh, that is-
spk_0
I would love people leaving on their-
spk_0
That's beautiful.
spk_0
That's a good one, Sean.
spk_0
That's fabulous.
spk_0
I thought I had a longer one.
spk_0
I thought I was playing, like, Sail Away or something.
spk_0
So you priced it out at 50?
spk_0
They were 50.
spk_0
Well, I think I asked.
spk_0
I asked a lot of coupons.
spk_0
It's a lot.
spk_0
No, I wonder if they moved somebody into the space that's been vacated at Ferncliffe.
spk_0
And that fan who brought this space next to it, I'm sure he-
spk_0
Oh, my God.
spk_0
I'm a dammit.
spk_0
Because that was vacated at Ferncliffe since I've been going to Ferncliffe.
spk_0
And that's been since the 80s going.
spk_0
Yes, yes, yes.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Oh, my God.
spk_0
Were you going on a birthday ever year, too?
spk_0
When I was living here, yeah.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
And then just one of the years, you happen to finally-
spk_0
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
That's really sweet.
spk_0
Now, one time I went-
spk_0
There was a lot of people there one time I went.
spk_0
No kidding.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
There was a guy from Tennessee.
spk_0
I think I got there-
spk_0
I don't know what time I got there.
spk_0
Like, two in the afternoon.
spk_0
And he was there in his Wizard of Oz tie city there.
spk_0
And he said, well, what time did you get here?
spk_0
He said, I've been here since they opened him.
spk_0
He was sitting here all day.
spk_0
And then he was going to-
spk_0
Mama?
spk_0
They were showing me-
spk_0
I'm saying, a little aside like he was going there.
spk_0
Oh, wow.
spk_0
But he was like this little southern gentleman.
spk_0
He was just sitting there so quiet.
spk_0
You never been?
spk_0
No, I never been.
spk_0
I was going to go in there.
spk_0
We'll go to Harrah Laroid.
spk_0
Joan Crawford's here.
spk_0
We'll take you to Joan Crawford's grave.
spk_0
Sign me up.
spk_0
You got me.
spk_0
That's all I did.
spk_0
It's friendship.
spk_0
Friendship.
spk_0
spk_0
Just a perfect friendship.
spk_0
When I heard friendships have been forget.
spk_0
I was well-skinned.
spk_0
How was the $1,000 hit hit hit?
spk_0
Did I ever tell you to about the Judy Garland door at the palace?
spk_0
No.
spk_0
I learned about this accidentally.
spk_0
I went to see Spongebob the musical,
spk_0
which is the last musical to play at the palace before they shut down for all the renovations.
spk_0
And my aunt is a set designer and she knew someone that was on production there.
spk_0
And she got me a backstage to work.
spk_0
I had-
spk_0
I had to spend my second time in New York.
spk_0
And it was like a cool experience.
spk_0
I had some-
spk_0
So after the show I met this woman and she was taking me around backstage and I was looking at all the Spongebob stuff.
spk_0
And at which point of the way that musical rocks.
spk_0
I love seeing it.
spk_0
I saw it.
spk_0
I saw it.
spk_0
It's amazing.
spk_0
It's not Amazon if you want to watch it.
spk_0
You watch it online.
spk_0
It's pretty cool.
spk_0
It's like very political.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And very gay.
spk_0
But yeah, so we were walking around backstage and going through this hallway.
spk_0
There's a sign that says Judy Garland door and it's pointing to the right.
spk_0
And she takes me to the left and we're going looking around.
spk_0
And I was like, oh, this is all so interesting.
spk_0
By the way, what is that sign about the Judy Garland door?
spk_0
What is that?
spk_0
She was like, oh, yeah, there's this-
spk_0
You know, she's just kind of brushed it off and I had to like keep bringing it up.
spk_0
And then she was like, okay, I'll show you the-
spk_0
Come here.
spk_0
And so she said it's the store that when Judy played the palace she wanted to make a back-of-house entrance.
spk_0
So badly that they had to build a tunnel under the house with a staircase that goes up to the back of the house.
spk_0
So she could enter back there.
spk_0
So they called it the Judy Garland door.
spk_0
So she took me through there and like everyone had been clearing out and everyone was gone.
spk_0
It was just me and this lady who was very nice.
spk_0
We went down the spooky little hallway and up this little staircase.
spk_0
And the door closed behind us and we got up to the top and the Judy Garland door was closed too.
spk_0
And I was like, oh my god, we're locked in in the Judy Garland door.
spk_0
I can't believe it.
spk_0
And I can tell she was like kind of panicking.
spk_0
And then someone walked through and we like grabbed the door and we came through.
spk_0
And we walked into the back of the palace and the lights were out.
spk_0
It was just the ghost light and like the spot was gone.
spk_0
Oh my god.
spk_0
Oh my god.
spk_0
Oh you walked through the Judy Garland door.
spk_0
Oh my god.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Because that's how she made her entrance in 67.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yep, right there.
spk_0
It was a really amazing-
spk_0
And to walk in and the house be dark with like such a magical experience.
spk_0
It was totally quiet.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And I just exited through the front of the house after that.
spk_0
It was really cool.
spk_0
But then like a few weeks later they closed and they did the renovations and they've like lifted the palace up or whatever.
spk_0
They kind of parking garage on it or under it or something.
spk_0
So I don't know if it's going to be there anymore.
spk_0
No, it's not.
spk_0
Navi, I could design 47th Street.
spk_0
Is it?
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Fiftyth anniversary of Carnegie Hall.
spk_0
That me and Andrea and somebody in like three of them, I put a shout out on Facebook.
spk_0
It was during COVID.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And we met in front of Carnegie Hall and we played the Carnegie Hall album.
spk_0
And I wished I had the cardboard card I went and brought her.
spk_0
But did you bring a portable record player like I had my speaker and I brought the album.
spk_0
I put the album up.
spk_0
That's it.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
We paid homage.
spk_0
And we started like an 830 when the show started and blasted.
spk_0
Some people got it.
spk_0
Some people walked by and said I love it.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Other people were like, ooh.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
But we felt the spirit.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Am I right?
spk_0
We felt that spirit that reaches out and grabs you.
spk_0
And there was one little gay boy with his girlfriend.
spk_0
I don't know what happened with her.
spk_0
He was famous as a girl.
spk_0
And he was walking and he stopped and he walked.
spk_0
You could tell he wanted to.
spk_0
He wanted to come.
spk_0
I'm like, come on, come on.
spk_0
I got to go.
spk_0
So.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's friendship.
spk_0
Friendship.
spk_0
Just the perfect.
spk_0
Friendship.
spk_0
When other friendships are up the creek.
spk_0
As will still be slick.
spk_0
A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of woof woof woof.
spk_0
Well, any other Judy experiences you want to share while still running?
spk_0
While still recording?
spk_0
Well, that's already a luxury.
spk_0
So we usually go out to dinner.
spk_0
We have to do something.
spk_0
Now, just we've gone to like, moa stuff.
spk_0
Yeah, but there's a Judy thing.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And then of course, we're 100th birthday at our house.
spk_0
Were we on that?
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
That was fun.
spk_0
That was fun.
spk_0
That was fun.
spk_0
spk_0
And I was like kind of feeling very weak and sick at the time.
spk_0
Like I wasn't feeling very well.
spk_0
And I was really powering through.
spk_0
But I was like, this is still the posting credit in the week.
spk_0
I'm like, really?
spk_0
Like, I remember laying in light.
spk_0
Literally laying on a chair in line to see Joey left.
spk_0
Like trying to stay alive.
spk_0
Because I was like, I have to meet Joey.
spk_0
That's so bad.
spk_0
That's great.
spk_0
Well, when I was in typing class, we would have to free type or whatever they call it.
spk_0
Like, she gives the time, but give us like 45 seconds.
spk_0
And she said, if you go back in time, what would you do when I was like,
spk_0
go to Carnegie Hall, blah, blah, blah.
spk_0
And the next day I got back, oh, very interesting.
spk_0
That's your comment.
spk_0
Back it.
spk_0
Oh, very interesting.
spk_0
Thank you, Judy.
spk_0
Thank you, Judy.
spk_0
spk_0
That's how Joey and I really got like really started to click.
spk_0
One night we were on the phone and we were like, oh, we should go to this hundred birthday party.
spk_0
And it's just like, we've gotten closer and closer because of Judy's stuff.
spk_0
It's really amazing what she can do for the queers especially.
spk_0
I don't know what it is, but we're all drawn to her.
spk_0
What is it?
spk_0
What is it?
spk_0
Plus, I've also been like, I'm not there.
spk_0
She has to be in a gay male a lot in terms of my taste.
spk_0
So not accused, I would say.
spk_0
Coronated.
spk_0
Coronated.
spk_0
I think it's that she's kind of a, but she, I, there's something about her that reaches into your guts.
spk_0
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I, nobody else.
spk_0
She's like, she's gorgeous, but not classically gorgeous.
spk_0
She's an outsider.
spk_0
She's an insider, but she's been outsider.
spk_0
It's, she's like the way she is a culturally tragic figure in a lot of ways, but also like,
spk_0
fucking hilarious on her own.
spk_0
She's had such a good sense of humor.
spk_0
There's something about the queer experience that I think I've I've with, but also like,
spk_0
I knew I loved her before.
spk_0
I knew that was associated with my queerness.
spk_0
It was just watching her in Easter Parade was like, what a magnificent angel.
spk_0
So it's also like outside of knowing who she was as a cultural figure because I didn't know that then.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
So what is, I really, I can never put my finger on one of those.
spk_0
Yep.
spk_0
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
spk_0
They asked if people asked me that too.
spk_0
And so you like her because you're gay.
spk_0
You can enter because you're gay.
spk_0
You're a friend of Dorothy.
spk_0
I'm like, no, I just, no.
spk_0
It was just the, it was just the voice.
spk_0
Like, this was the first, like that.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, there it is.
spk_0
This is the out.
spk_0
The blue eyeshadow.
spk_0
Like, who is this woman?
spk_0
I don't know who she, this is Dorothy.
spk_0
Wait a minute.
spk_0
What are you talking about?
spk_0
This is the first, this is the first.
spk_0
The first he bought.
spk_0
That's the, that's the strange, strange.
spk_0
Oh my.
spk_0
This one or this is a copy of it?
spk_0
No, that, this is the one?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Damn.
spk_0
It's in great condition.
spk_0
Look at you.
spk_0
Out of everything you own is this maybe the longest possession you're having your life.
spk_0
You bought that third grade.
spk_0
And that, and that.
spk_0
Melta Maybook, yeah.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
For a quarter just so that I'm on the show.
spk_0
You've met some Maybooks.
spk_0
You've met some Maybooks, which I've read.
spk_0
I'm like, I didn't get this book at all.
spk_0
I'm like, I was in fourth grade.
spk_0
But totally over my head, like, this is the biography.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That's beautiful.
spk_0
But my vinyl is mine.
spk_0
I love the vinyl.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
The one I'm under.
spk_0
What do you call it?
spk_0
Yeah, I started to, I've been collecting the EPs now for the album.
spk_0
I was, I've got the album all.
spk_0
I actually, which, yeah.
spk_0
So this is like the voice I heard.
spk_0
And I was like, who's this woman?
spk_0
That's not for it, you know.
spk_0
I'm a writer.
spk_0
Whenever you're sad, it's all over with me.
spk_0
So you heard it and didn't see it?
spk_0
You heard it and voice like this before seeing her.
spk_0
Yeah, like I had the voice.
spk_0
Her voice did it.
spk_0
Yeah, the one I was singing voice.
spk_0
Like I had to start with great.
spk_0
But this is all the records I had.
spk_0
Like this is, that's weird.
spk_0
Yeah, so much older than, especially the way they depict her.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I'm just talking about a Paisley suit and ask my house.
spk_0
What's a Paisley suit?
spk_0
She told me that.
spk_0
Who are these?
spk_0
Tom Pope.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Tragic, fast, mouthful of that.
spk_0
She was a drunk.
spk_0
That was him.
spk_0
That was his take on.
spk_0
Oh, that's the fact of her.
spk_0
I see.
spk_0
You know that, we are.
spk_0
I'm strong.
spk_0
What?
spk_0
Louis.
spk_0
Louis Armstrong.
spk_0
I just got this picture.
spk_0
I didn't just get it.
spk_0
Love that.
spk_0
Look at that.
spk_0
Isn't that great?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Love it.
spk_0
Wow.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
What was she saying?
spk_0
Good evening, friends.
spk_0
I don't want to go home.
spk_0
I never.