Episode 250: A FEAST FOR CROWS, THE QUEENMAKER: "Blood on the Sand"

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello and welcome to the Not a Cast podcast.

spk_0 The one true chapter by chapter podcast going through a song of Ice and Fire.

spk_0 I'm one of your hosts Emmett, also known as Porgwentin, and I'm your other host

spk_0 Manu, also known as Manuclear Bomb. And welcome to the big round number here,

spk_0 250th episode of the Not a Cast titled Blood on the Sand, an analysis of the

spk_0 Queenmaker, Indifice for Crows, in which our newest POV, Ariane Martell, gets close.

spk_0 So close to fulfilling Maggie's prophecy by crowning Marcella. I would say

spk_0 a better luck next time, but I don't know if that applies.

spk_0 I think Ariane's conspiracy is going to need a new public face for their candidate.

spk_0 Oh, that's mean.

spk_0 Porgwmarcella, she really, really can't catch a break.

spk_0 So our spoiler warning is always prepared.

spk_0 He spoiled for all five of us on the song of Ice and Fire novels, the three Dunkin'

spk_0 Egg novellas, any histories, any interviews, any wins of winter sample chapters, as well

spk_0 as Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon, the TV shows, anything and everything.

spk_0 So this is where we usually answer one, usually just one question, from one of our patrons,

spk_0 one of our sworn sword and higher tier patrons, one of the benefits they get on our

spk_0 Patreon, is they get to ask us questions that we answer here at the top of our

spk_0 A regular Song of Ice and Fire episodes. But since this is such a big round number,

spk_0 250 whole episodes here, we wanted to do something special.

spk_0 So we announced a wide open AMA for anyone, anyone of our patrons of any tier,

spk_0 but also anyone who listens, who'd send in questions that we would answer a bunch

spk_0 of here on the 250th episode. We asked a new answer, we sent in so many great

spk_0 questions on the email, via Twitter, via Instagram, via the Patreon itself.

spk_0 Thank you so much for sending in so many great questions, we are not going to get to all

spk_0 of them today, that's all we'd be doing. We do have a chapter to get to.

spk_0 So we're going to be answering around 10 or so questions today, but everyone who

spk_0 sent in your questions, we will be answering them, we'll be answering them one by

spk_0 one, as we go through our next handful of regular Song of Ice and Fire episodes.

spk_0 So we'll not be leaving any one of them out. And again, thank you so much for sending in

spk_0 so many great questions. We knew we'd get a handful, but we were overwhelmed.

spk_0 So it means so much to us that you're here with us for the 250th episode.

spk_0 And I'm just so happy to be here with you, sir. This has been such a joy, such a

spk_0 wonderful part of my life in our lives. I'm so glad we've been doing it this long.

spk_0 And we still have a fair amount to go. Yeah, it's incredible.

spk_0 This has been like about 15, 16 years since I read this book and somehow and in

spk_0 large part due to this podcast, my love for it keeps growing. I can't believe,

spk_0 I can't believe we slept questions. Like what haven't we talked about in depth many times

spk_0 before, like go through all these episodes. I'm like, I surely have said this in three

spk_0 different songs episodes before this song's episode. Like, but so we find new material.

spk_0 And thanks to our listeners, there's always new stuff to engage in new ways to approach things.

spk_0 And I really do think it is kind of our success should be shared by the community,

spk_0 because we've had a lot of great support over the years, people supporting the

spk_0 Patreon, people sending in their questions, engaging with us on social media,

spk_0 and just generally being really nice to us and listening to us and leaving ratings and

spk_0 reviews and all that kind of good stuff. Like we really couldn't have a better listener base.

spk_0 So the quality of this podcast is in direct correlation to that.

spk_0 So we'll set completely agreed. So let's jump into a questions. A bunch of questions sent in by

spk_0 you are loyal fans and listeners starting with one from live. If you could pick one a song of

spk_0 icing fire character and one game of thrown slash house at the dragon actor to interview for the

spk_0 podcast, who would they be and why? Great question. Well, in terms of fictional people to interview,

spk_0 I would probably go with Marwin the Mage. I don't know if he would answer any of my questions,

spk_0 but I would have a lot of questions for him. He's one of the most mysterious characters. I feel

spk_0 like in the series where we've only seen the tip of the iceberg and George keeps hinting

spk_0 that there's much more underneath. What about you? Varus. It's Varus.

spk_0 Oh, even better choice. He even less likely to answer the questions, unfortunately.

spk_0 But I think he'd still have entertaining answers or give me little riddles. It would still be a

spk_0 very fun conversation. It would be a great time. That's true. We'd all leave more thoughtful.

spk_0 In terms of slightly more serious, a game of thrones or house of the dragon actor, I mean,

spk_0 Pylue Asbeck, the guy who played urine on the show. I know he was interested in playing kind of

spk_0 a broader range of the character than he ended up getting to. I'd love to talk to him more about that.

spk_0 That would be really fun. I'd also like to interview Steven Delane and Liam Cunningham as a team.

spk_0 I think that would be a delight. See how much you could get out of Davos and one or two words from

spk_0 Stanis. That would be beautiful. What about you? Yeah. Liam Cunningham would have been one of mine. He's

spk_0 a very old grizzled man with a lot of stories. I do like the fact that he's also read the books.

spk_0 I'm going to go with Lena Headey, Cersei. She's an absolute riot. If you have those game of thrones

spk_0 DVDs, find the audio commentaries with her, especially if it's her and Peter Dinklage. I believe

spk_0 they do the blackwater commentary together specifically. That is just a delightful time. She seems

spk_0 like a really wonderful person, a lot of energy. I think she'd be a lot of fun. I also have to say,

spk_0 you know, I am a simple man with my poor indulgences and I do have crushes. I would have to shout out

spk_0 both Natalie Dormer and Olivia Cook. You're not getting through either of those interviews.

spk_0 No. I'm a very nice person in real life. Of course you are. You'd just be blushing. You'd have

spk_0 the big anime blush going all over. Wolf Hardeyes. You could see my exact pumping out of my

spk_0 chest, all that kind of stuff. But I would do that if I could. But otherwise, I think Lena Headey

spk_0 would be just a great interview, a great person to talk to you. Good choice. Question from Gabe.

spk_0 I have a question. Call on me. Call on me. Well, here we are. Have you ever wanted to go back to

spk_0 a chapter you've already covered and redo the episode? A re-read, if you will. That's a good question.

spk_0 I mean, not even for new insights, but just for the rush of talking about them again. Maybe there's

spk_0 last few dandy chapters in book one, you know, the escalation with Miriam Azdoor and Cal Drogo falling

spk_0 and the magic and the dragon birth. Those would be wild chapters to go over again. What about you?

spk_0 Anything from the first couple of books that if we reverse time, you want to jump in and do an

spk_0 episode on? Yeah. I think it's kind of the big ones. I think the Game of Thrones prologue and

spk_0 Danny Tenskick out. Sure. I would love to do those. Fire and ice.

spk_0 Standless, Renly chapters with you as well. That parlay is so great. But I think I have to be

spk_0 true to myself once again. It would be great to go back and do cat seven, a clash of kings. So I

spk_0 had been lucky that I was able to join this podcast to do all of Jamie's big, big chapters so far

spk_0 and there's still more to come. But that is just like the what non-jemy Jamie chapter that's like,

spk_0 ah, I would really have loved to be there to opine on that because that is one of the most

spk_0 quotable Jamie monologues, dialogues. Absolutely. It's so good that the Game of Thrones show

spk_0 I've disappointed in too. That's true. Well, who knows? Maybe we'll down the line of Patreon

spk_0 episode. Maybe we'll go back to that chapter specifically. We'll see. Watch the space.

spk_0 Question from Katie. Do Garland and Yaron know you're dating both of them, Emmett? Well, now they do.

spk_0 Thanks, Katie. I really got to blow up my whole situation here. It's true. Garland represents

spk_0 the best of me and Yaron. I don't know the worst. Maybe just the most fun.

spk_0 We got a real challenger situation here. Yeah, we got a real one battle after another situation.

spk_0 Or a E2 Momma Tambien. Who knows? Exactly. Now we're talking. Oh, the images flashing across

spk_0 my mind's eye. E2 Garland. Tambien. Question from Faisal. Hi, I've been a fan of your podcast for

spk_0 years. Thank you. Something I've been wondering about lately is whether Little Finger is the real

spk_0 father of sweet Robin. I think there's some pretty compelling evidence, but it has a few squares

spk_0 that I can't really circle. If it was true, then I think Lysa would have said something in the last

spk_0 Sansa chapter when she admitted to killing John Aaron, considering all her trauma around her first

spk_0 pregnancy. I also have a hard time believing Little Finger wouldn't know about it. What are your

spk_0 thoughts on this theory? Yeah, I'm conflicted just like Faisal is. I think there's some evidence,

spk_0 like sweet Robin does look more like Little Finger. Like when we get to Harry the air and everyone's

spk_0 like, oh, that's what John Aaron looked like. I'm like, huh, why is George emphasizing that?

spk_0 That this kid in the Aaron family for sure looks more like him. But I also agree that if like,

spk_0 if that was going to be a big deal around Lysa's death would have been the time to reveal it. So

spk_0 maybe not. What do you think? Yeah, I'm basically the same. This is one of those ones that I think

spk_0 might be left open-ended enough where you can kind of run with either interpretation. Because

spk_0 ultimately, I don't think it's going to matter because I don't think, unfortunately, that Robin

spk_0 Aaron is long for the world, no matter what the Game of Thrones show did. I do think eventually

spk_0 the veil will pass to someone else. Preferably sounds a stark. So we'll call that. But I do think

spk_0 I do think it is a pretty interesting theory and it will not shock me at all if this does turn out

spk_0 to be proven true. It just feels like, like you said, the moment to do it is with Lysa admitting it

spk_0 as opposed to just Little Finger. It's just at that point it has to be like a bond monologue style.

spk_0 My villainy no-go is even further and I'm killing my own son and this is going to look great

spk_0 on me to tell you this and all that. So yeah, so possible. But at this point, it seems like it's past

spk_0 itself by day. Through a handful of theories. I feel that way about. Question from a Lord Jake,

spk_0 Assistant 2 of the Hand of the King, who sent in several great questions. We're going to answer

spk_0 one here. More like I said in later episodes down the line. Do you think we will get any surprise

spk_0 white gut punches during the War for the Dawn? As in, a character doesn't realize another

spk_0 character has died until they see them raised as a white. Or in that same arena, is there a major

spk_0 or secondary character we may see as a white before they are taken out or before they take someone out?

spk_0 I feel like good candidates here would be Night's Watch characters since they're going to get it

spk_0 first. You know, I could see it being really sad of Pip or Grand or Dollar said. It has to show

spk_0 it as a zombie for John, especially since Hill have gone through his own semi-zombification at this

spk_0 point. Yeah, I mean, it kind of has to make sense to be someone in the Northern theater of stuff.

spk_0 I think it would be kind of devastating if it ends up being like Torment, even though I have

spk_0 Torment as one of the survivors of this. But that's someone I can feel like really having a

spk_0 significant gut punch at this point. Part of me kind of wants it to be like Roost Bolton,

spk_0 just so like the Vampire theories, you know, not quite undead. They're the living dead. Not

spk_0 entirely sure, but I think that could be fun. I think this is something we talked a lot about with

spk_0 Game of Thrones and a lot of like the show itself. And I think part of the fun was that because it

spk_0 would theoretically give actors a chance to come back. Like I think we were all hoping like Christian

spk_0 Yarn would show back up as Hodor or something like that. I still think it can be done effectively

spk_0 here, but I just really don't see unless it's like Benjen Stark who can really have an impact at this

spk_0 point who is somewhere within the realm of the others because even the most notable wildlings,

spk_0 I guess Eagerit is a possibility. That could be meaningful for John, but John's also dead.

spk_0 I feel there's just too many dead people around John. We need to get those live numbers up a

spk_0 little bit. Exactly. I think Eagerit he burned if I recall. Oh that's right. He's in the show.

spk_0 Yes, hopefully. Yeah. Unless he's a sentient pile of ash. Hopefully we'll be able to avoid that.

spk_0 But Torment would be good, especially since Torment has that whole bit in dance about having to

spk_0 quote C to one of his own sons when he came back. So if John then had to do that for him,

spk_0 there could be some real resonance and poignancy there. Next question from our friend,

spk_0 queer Alex. Howdy friends and congrats upon achieving another milestone. Y'all have kept the

spk_0 sacred fires going and the fandom is better for this podcast and all the work that goes into it.

spk_0 Thank you so much. So queer Alex also sent in a few questions. We'll get to a couple in later

spk_0 episodes, but for this time around, say that's somehow you were getting in a song of ice and

spk_0 fire youth. Meaning you can choose any character and age them up or down to be your tag a long kid.

spk_0 Who was your number one draft pick? Who do you think you could influence the most?

spk_0 Who do you think would be the most fun to bring into modernity? So that's a fun question.

spk_0 What do you think? Who is who is your poddrick pain? If you could pick one one thrown Z character

spk_0 to be your sidekick that you would you would raise. Who would who would you pick? The egg to my

spk_0 dumb. Exactly. I mean, part of me wants to bend that age a little bit and you know give

spk_0 Fion a truly loving home so he doesn't turn out to be a pile of shit.

spk_0 Unless so anyway. Yes. I feel like I just have to pick Tom and because he's a little boy who

spk_0 wants to play with cats and boy can I let him play with cats? I feel like it can be an excellent

spk_0 role model of masculinity for him. I can keep him away from his evil counselors and people who

spk_0 want to lead him astray as Ariane is going to tell him or sell it to this chapter. So he kind of

spk_0 easy answer for me. Tom and Lex cats. I like cats. Let me adopt that boy.

spk_0 But you can make sure you keep beats away from him or maybe teach him to like beats. There's

spk_0 like a whole training montage. He's getting a little closer to the plate each time. Eventually he

spk_0 loves them. Along those same lines and lining up with this episode today, I think my choice would

spk_0 be Marcella because I feel it's emphasized in this Dornestore line that she really is like the

spk_0 most on the ball of these kids and like you know Tom is very sweet and Marcella seems like sweet

spk_0 and also smart and engaged and could have been a really good leader. You know it's not going to

spk_0 happen. So if I could spirit her away from the family and associated curses and prophecies and

spk_0 whatnot, let her let her grow up in shine as she was meant to be. I think that would be something

spk_0 special. From Frank Hawley, one of the world building aspects of a song of ice and fire I've

spk_0 always found most creative is that planetose has irregular, extremely long winters. That idea made

spk_0 me really excited to learn more about the expanded world. But if I'm being honest, I've been a

spk_0 little let down by a little information we actually get about what people do when winter comes.

spk_0 Outside of the long night, past winters barely get mentioned. No great famines, migrations,

spk_0 cultural scars. Why do you think George R. Martin chose not to show or reference the impact of

spk_0 previous major winters more directly? Is this a deliberate world building choice or just a narrative

spk_0 decision to keep the focus on the coming long night? And it's true when winter is discussed in the

spk_0 series it's more like this kind of mythical recurring kind of way. Just when winter comes, old men

spk_0 have to go out and people stay in and huddle and the tears freeze on their cheeks and all that.

spk_0 It's not like so much like Ned remembering that one winter when I was 12. So what do you think? Do

spk_0 you think the story would would gain from kind of people kind of bringing that trauma to the

spk_0 forest we built to the new one? I think I would just like to hear it mentioned more because I do

spk_0 think there's a couple I might be mistaking the show for the book here, but I think when there

spk_0 are Terrians up at the wall in the very first season, they talk about how many winters has he seen?

spk_0 And I really like that and I think that might be in the book, but I think that is something that

spk_0 I like to like imagine is like how many winters have you seen? And you can't really tell because it

spk_0 depends exactly when you were born relative to the winter nearest to your birth and how long was that?

spk_0 It's a very interesting way to kind of measure that kind of time. So I think there is like a

spk_0 little bit more room for talking about it. I have a feeling that the regularity is tied to the

spk_0 others in some capacity. So I do think part of the answer to that might be, you know, I think

spk_0 that reveal might be coming or there might be something to that that George doesn't want to play

spk_0 those cards yet, but I just do like people measuring time and winters and I wish maybe they talked

spk_0 about it a little more because especially we're going to, you know, this long night that's coming

spk_0 as supposed to be apocalyptic. It wouldn't hurt to hear that just past winters are also just bad

spk_0 as is for this kind of society, especially the further north you go. But you know, it's not

spk_0 something I think about Zika. You know why a song of ice and fire sucks? They don't talk about

spk_0 winter. Now, if I know that, I was frank saying either, you know, this is a very good fade question.

spk_0 It is something I wish there was a little more for, but you know, there's a million things that

spk_0 level just a little bit more of too. Yeah, George might just be keeping the powder dry. So the

spk_0 long night is something special, but yeah, I think a lot of it is just that we start, especially

spk_0 at the beginning of the story with the focus on the Stark kids who really haven't seen a big winter,

spk_0 you know, brand was born in summer. We haven't seen a winter in his lifetime and even the kids

spk_0 are a little older have barely, barely any memories of it. And for the most part, these are well

spk_0 looked after people. So they wouldn't have necessarily horrifying memories of winter. And then the

spk_0 father south you get that the easier winter has generally been, you know, if you've lived in

spk_0 Kingsland and you're castaway rock or father south and that winter may have been just like an

spk_0 inconvenience for them a life or death deal as it is in the north. From Joel Bennett, if Eris O'Carte

spk_0 had been present for the meeting of the Kingsguard in a storm of swords, Jamie eight, say Tyrion

spk_0 had sent Greenfield, Trance or Mord, Sunspir instead. How do you think Jamie would have internally,

spk_0 slash externally assessed Eris? Likewise, how did the Kingslanding and Dornplot's change with

spk_0 him without Eris's presence? What do you think about that? There's like great bit where Jamie's

spk_0 kind of running down all the Kingsguard one by one, dealing with them when he returns to Kingslanding.

spk_0 Let's say Eris O'Carte is present, given what we know of Eris from his one POV chapter. What do you

spk_0 think? Interesting, because I think the best thing for Eris in this case, I mean, the best thing

spk_0 that doesn't count being cut down by Aureo Hota is the fact that he's not there, because I think

spk_0 the fact that Tyrion sent him down with Marcella for Jamie, that's like a point in Eris's favor.

spk_0 Like this was a guy that Tyrion kind of thought was good enough at his job and can be trustworthy

spk_0 enough loyal enough to actually pull this off. So I think the fact that he's not there speaks more

spk_0 to his character than him being there ever could. And that's not necessarily a big artist character,

spk_0 though. I kind of know. I like it though. I think he would be the C student of this class. He would

spk_0 be perfectly lined up where Jamie's like, he's clearly not great, like, you know, Loris Tyrell,

spk_0 and he's not a shithead like, you know, these other guys like Marin Trant and Boros Blonde and all that.

spk_0 And like, because of the spectrum, the range of the guys I just mentioned, Loris Tyrell and Boros Blonde,

spk_0 it's very easy to make Eris O'Carte the median guy. And I think Jamie would think like in King's

spk_0 Guards past someone like Eris O'Carte should be the worst night in your seven. And here we are.

spk_0 Putting it here we are. He's like the third or fourth. Yes, he is, he should be replacement level.

spk_0 He should be the C or the floor. And now he's just basically the midpoint, if not a little bit

spk_0 above average, given how dire it's gotten. That's a great point. I can see Jamie thinking that to

spk_0 himself like, wow, the King's Guards has fallen if I'm looking at you as a passing grade here.

spk_0 And yeah, I think that's probably true because yeah, he wouldn't measure up to Loris Tyrell or

spk_0 Balan Swan. And while he's not like an outright like sadist or incompetent like Trant and Blonde,

spk_0 he does, he did hit Sansa Stark and Jamie has that moment with Marin Trant. Here, show me Nervous

spk_0 where we swear to beat women and children. So that question would also apply to Eris O'Carte.

spk_0 Question from our Patreon Minesme. Since all the Stark kids have a strong connection to their

spk_0 dire wolves, what do you think would change for Sansa and her arc if Lady would have survived?

spk_0 Either because Robert refused to have her killed or because she somehow managed to flee with Nymuria.

spk_0 Would Lady maybe form a pack with Nymuria or join Nymuria's pack later? If Sansa could take Lady

spk_0 with her to King's Landing, which she may be experienced similar struggles as John of accepting

spk_0 herself as a warg. Interesting to think of Lady and Nymuria both in exile. I think as Ariane

spk_0 Sansa have stayed separate, I think even if both wolves lived, they probably would stay separate

spk_0 for a while. I'm interested about Sansa just in terms of personal safety if she still has a

spk_0 dire wolf around. I think unfortunately even if Lady made it to King's Landing, I don't know,

spk_0 she outlives Ned by much once she's off her insurcery. Will you have control of Cersei? How are you

spk_0 going to get the King's Guard to be there? Have you always have a dire wolf right there?

spk_0 Yeah, I just cannot see Lady existing in King's Landing for long. Either Sansa would have to leave

spk_0 or the blades would probably come out at the first provocation. Kind of like they did, I guess,

spk_0 at the dairy or wherever it was that the whole thing with Lady went down in the first place.

spk_0 I do like the idea of her being set free and then Nymuria and Lady probably having separate wolf

spk_0 packs because I just don't imagine. Why are you more dainty and dignified than the other ones?

spk_0 Yes. It would be very classes. Sansa would be upper class and Arias would be very working class

spk_0 down in the dirt. This is a whole other story. I don't think any of the dire wolves are necessarily

spk_0 going to be subservient to anyone else. I think they're all packed leaders in their own way.

spk_0 That is the appealing scenario here, hypothetical. I'd like to see what that meant. I would like to see

spk_0 Sansa having those dreams, what it feels like to be caged in King's Landing while she has a wolf

spk_0 that's running free somewhere in the riverlands or perhaps it migrates elsewhere because that's

spk_0 Nymuria's territory and they decide to split the spoils or something like that. I think that would

spk_0 be a lot of fun. I just can't imagine Lady lasting long in King's Landing or whatever happens

spk_0 to Sansa would hinge on Lady just like it did at Dairy 2. Yeah, or getting rid of Grey Wind and

spk_0 separating him from Rob. None of the dire wolves can survive when the knives come out because

spk_0 ironically their protector status dooms them. Whoever wants to hurt a Stark knows you have to get rid

spk_0 of their wolf first. So question from a bow a lesi. Hey, not a cast. Long time listener since episode

spk_0 1 actually, first time writer, either of y'all ever read Pinchons against the day. I know Emmett

spk_0 has long mentioned gravity's rainbow as a favorite. Against the day is similarly sprawling, covering

spk_0 creeping fascism, the wonder and magic of science, and the global battle between labor and capital

spk_0 in the run up to World War I. More pertinent to this podcast, it also has a chapter by chapter

spk_0 point of view structure that has a lot of similarities to a song of Ice and Fire. Curious whether

spk_0 either of you have read it and if you have any thoughts on it, particularly how it uses the PULV

spk_0 structure. If you haven't, I highly recommend giving it a shot, one of Pinchons' longer books,

spk_0 but also pretty readable and very rewarding. As it happens, I am rereading against the day right now,

spk_0 about 90% of the way through it and hoping to finish that up before Pinchons. Thomas Pinchons'

spk_0 newest book, Shadow Ticket, comes out about a week from when we're recording, so very excited

spk_0 about that. And yeah, I also highly recommend it. Amazing sprawling book takes place at the end of

spk_0 the 19th century and through the buildup to World War I dealing with all sorts of crazy new

spk_0 technologies and ideas and politics spreading through Europe and America at that time. And like

spk_0 most Pinchons, half of it is like really realistic research, understanding of how people talked and

spk_0 lived and cooked and had sex and thought about having sex and very much grounded in that era,

spk_0 but also like airships are real and magic is real. So it says half reality, half fantasy,

spk_0 look at that era, like so many much of a stuff is and it's just beautifully, soaringly written,

spk_0 really sad at some points, really weird at other points, beautiful, intense politics about the

spk_0 growth of labor movements and anarchism in the American West and with the the mine owners and

spk_0 associated types did to crack down on it. And yeah, great POV structure sprawling among a couple

spk_0 dozen different characters, mostly a lot of them centered around one family but also scientists and

spk_0 mathematicians who are getting deep into the new mathematics of that era. So just really, yeah,

spk_0 great story about the birth of modernity and tracking it among a bunch of different people

spk_0 all across the world. Definitely, you know, it's for people who are new to Pinchon, I'd recommend

spk_0 starting with the smaller ones with your vine lands and your inherent faces, the ones that have

spk_0 been made into movies, but you build your way up to the big ones to grab these rainbow Mason

spk_0 Addixon and against the day, I highly recommend. Thank you for that kind of syllabus because I am

spk_0 not familiar, my only familiar here with Pinchon is the Walking Phoenix inherent face movie,

spk_0 and I believe he has a very brief cameo in the Simpsons where he appears with a paper bag over his head.

spk_0 Famously reclusive, yeah, but I'll be seeing one battle after another later this week. I know

spk_0 my co-host Assad, he really loved it and has been very kind and not sharing every single thought he

spk_0 has about it here for you, but yeah, I'm excited. I'm and I do plan to get to Pinchon eventually.

spk_0 I did take a stab at Gravini's rainbow. I just was not in the headspace to receive it at the time.

spk_0 Any such cases, but it is something that is on my list. I think now that I have a much more

spk_0 familiarity with the exact time period, those labor struggles, World War II, everything that was

spk_0 happening with Germany. I think I'll probably enjoy it a little bit more this time around.

spk_0 Other than that's probably true. Last but not least, just a comment from our listener Andrew.

spk_0 Thank you both for all of the hours you put into this podcast. Have listened for years,

spk_0 have been through the entire catalog several times. It's by far my favorite podcast and has been

spk_0 a great source of comfort for me and good and bad times. Congratulations on 250 episodes and

spk_0 here's to many, many more. Thank you so much, Andrew. It's so so nice to hear not only the people

spk_0 who are listening, but but re-listing and that it provides a source of comfort. There's nothing

spk_0 that could possibly have been more rewarding to hear than to be of good friendly voice for people

spk_0 in hard times. I can't imagine anything better for the podcast. So thanks so much to Andrew for

spk_0 the comment. Thanks so much to everyone who sent in their questions and comments, which we will be

spk_0 getting to, like I said, the rest of them that we didn't get to today. We'll be getting to

spk_0 in later episodes. Thanks so much to everyone who's listened to 250 episodes in. We're still

spk_0 having a great time. Still breaking new ground as we go through feast and dance and

spk_0 still plenty of episodes to go, just like Andrew said. Yeah. Especially, I want to thank everyone

spk_0 who's been so welcoming to me as the newer co-host of the two of us. It's been a very seamless

spk_0 transition. I felt like I've been very supported by everyone and here we are. We've been doing it now

spk_0 together for over three years and hopefully we have a lot more to go. We're hoping Georgia,

spk_0 you know, pitches in a little bit and gives us even more to talk about. Exactly. But, you know,

spk_0 we live in an age where IP never dies. So there will probably be something in Westeros for us for

spk_0 a long, long time either which way. So past all the questions, past all our sentimentality. We are

spk_0 here still today to talk eventually about one specific chapter. Thankfully, it's a good one.

spk_0 Thankfully, it's a corker. We are here for the Queenmaker in a feast for crows. So let's jump

spk_0 into the synopsis. Beneath the burning sun of dawn, wealth was measured as much in water as in

spk_0 gold. So every well was zealously guarded. The well at Shandestown had gone dry 100 years before,

spk_0 however. And its guardians had departed for some, water place, abandoning their modest holdfast

spk_0 with its fluted columns and triple arches. Afterward, the sands had crept back in to reclaim

spk_0 their own. Ariane Martell has just arrived here, with her companions Dre and Silva, greeted by

spk_0 their co-conspirators, Garen of the Greenblood, and Sir Gerald Dane, more commonly known as Darkstar,

spk_0 which I would be too if my actual name was Gerald. How did you know of this place? My uncle brought

spk_0 me here with Tyene and Serella. The memory made Ariane smile. He caught some viper's and showed Tyene the

spk_0 safest way to milk them for their venom. Serella turned over rocks, brushed sand off the mosaics,

spk_0 and wanted to know everything there was to know about the people who had lived here.

spk_0 And what did you do, Princess? Asked Spotted Silva. I sat beside the well, and pretended that some

spk_0 Robert Knight had brought me here to have his way with me. She thought, a tall, hard man with

spk_0 black eyes and a widow's peak. The memory made her uneasy. Yeah, as it probably should. We'll get

spk_0 into that. Garen recalls that Oberyn told them stories about his name-sick. Garen's name-sick,

spk_0 that is, Garen the great, a royal-nish leader who defied the Lyrian imperialism.

spk_0 But that didn't end well for him, as Darkstar reminds them with his seemingly signature lack of

spk_0 tact. Ariane is not blind to Darkstar's cruelty and arrogance. But it's hard to dwell on that when

spk_0 he's sitting there, smiling, honing his sword, being hotter than the desert itself.

spk_0 She just hopes he doesn't get too flirty when Aerys Oakheart shows up.

spk_0 Team Queenmaker passes the time until then, by drinking and galsoping about the latest news from

spk_0 the East, dragons, slave revolts, and the Golden Company breaking its contract with Mir.

spk_0 The Lyseni bought them off, suggested Silva. Clever Lyseni, Drey said, clever, craving Lyseni.

spk_0 Ariane knew better. If Quentin has the Golden Company behind him, beneath the gold the bitter

spk_0 steel was there cry. You will need bitter steel and more, brother, if you think to set me aside.

spk_0 Let's just pause to imagine Quentin trying to win over the Golden Company. He'd be

spk_0 stammering worse than Podrick. When Darkstar takes a bathroom break, Ariane's other friends take

spk_0 the opportunity to warn her about him, but she just can't get her annoying little brother out of her mind.

spk_0 The sun was gone, and the sky was full of stars. So many. She leaned her back against a fluted

spk_0 pillar, and wondered if her brother was looking at the same stars tonight, wherever he might be.

spk_0 Do you see the white one, Quentin? That is Nymeria's star, burning bright, and that Milky

spk_0 Band behind her, those are 10,000 ships. She burned as bright as any man, and so shall I. You will not

spk_0 rob me of my birthright. Quentin had been very young when he was sent to Ironwood. Too young,

spk_0 according to their mother, nor was she did not foster out their children, and Lady Malario had never

spk_0 forgiven Prince Doran for taking her son away from her. I like it no more than you do. Ariane

spk_0 had overheard her father say, but there was a blood debt, and Quentin is the only coin Lord

spk_0 Ormond will accept. Coin? Her mother had screamed, he is your son. What sort of father uses his

spk_0 own flesh and blood to pay his debts? The princely sort? Doran Martell had answered.

spk_0 But Quentin is no longer at Ironwood, no matter what Doran says. He was spotted in disguise at

spk_0 Plankytown, with several companions including the improbably named Cleetus Ironwood, Lord Anders' son

spk_0 and heir. From there he took passage across the narrow sea, and Ariane would give pretty much

spk_0 anything to find out why. Darkstar interrupts from using to suggest that her queen-making plot with

spk_0 Mercella might now work out like she wants. He is more right than he knows. Crowning the land

spk_0 as to Geral is a hollow gesture. She will never sit the Iron Throne. No will you get the war you want.

spk_0 The lion is not so easily provoked. Sergerald drew his sword. It's glimmered in the starlight,

spk_0 sharp as lies. This is how you start a war, not with a crown of gold, but with a blade of steel.

spk_0 I am no murderer of children. Put that away. Mercella is under my protection,

spk_0 and so Ariane will permit no harm to come to his precious princess. You know that.

spk_0 Know my lady. What I know is that Danes have been killing O'Carts for several thousand years.

spk_0 His arrogance took her breath away. It seems to me that O'Carts have been killing Danes for just

spk_0 as long. We all have our family traditions. Hate to give Darkstar credit for anything,

spk_0 but that is a pretty good line. Ari's O'Carts finally shows up with Mercella, who is confused about

spk_0 where they are, who all these people are, and why they're suddenly calling her your grace,

spk_0 because God forbid Ari's actually explain anything. That might take more than his one brain cell.

spk_0 Ariane tells Mercella that she, not Tommon, is the rightful occupant of the Iron Throne,

spk_0 and they are all here to make that a reality. Ariane introduces her companions one by one,

spk_0 ending with Darkstar. Surgerald went to one day. The moonlight shown in his dark eyes as he

spk_0 studied the child coolly. There was an author, Danes, Mercella said. He was a knight of the

spk_0 King's God in the days of Mad King Eri's. He was the sword of the morning. He is dead.

spk_0 Are you the sword of the morning now? No. Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.

spk_0 All right, that line is less cool. Can't win them all.

spk_0 After Darkstar complains that Surgerald is the only Dane anyone remembers,

spk_0 playing George for that one, buddy. It's not like he's written much about any of the rest.

spk_0 Ari's pulls Ariane aside to deliver some shocking news. Lord Tywin Lannister is dead.

spk_0 Did I say shocking? So it's like Ariane is literally the last one to find out.

spk_0 But now that she has, she considers it to be good news. Tywin was a dangerous enemy,

spk_0 and with Cersei, a woman, as Regent, the idea of ruling Queen might go down smoother.

spk_0 Areas puts the moves on Ariane, but she tells him there will be time for that later. If only.

spk_0 With that, teen queen maker sets out across the sands. Seven riders on their way to glory.

spk_0 One day the singers will make all of us immortal.

spk_0 Dre had wanted a larger party, but that might have attracted unwelcome attention,

spk_0 and every additional man doubled the risk of betrayal. That much my father taught me, at the least.

spk_0 Even when he was younger and stronger, Doron Martell had been a cautious man,

spk_0 much given to silences and secrets. It is time he put his burdens down,

spk_0 but I will suffer no slights to his honor or his person. She would return him to his water gardens,

spk_0 to live out what ears remained him, surrounded by laughing children, and the smell of

spk_0 limes and oranges. Yes, and Quentin can keep him company. Once I crown Marcella and free the

spk_0 sand snakes, all Doron will rally to my banners. The iron woods might declare for Quentin,

spk_0 but alone they were no threat. If they went over to Tommon and the Lannisters,

spk_0 she would have dark star destroy them, root and branch. Wow, a whole paragraph full of things

spk_0 that will not happen. Almost impressive. As they ride, Arianne informs Marcella, and the reader,

spk_0 for that matter, that they're headed for the green blood. The closest thing Doron has to

spk_0 a river, where they will be met by Garen's fellow orphans. Not literal orphans, not most of them

spk_0 anyway. They call themselves that because they are descended from those roonish followers of

spk_0 Nymeria, who were not exactly excited to move to these dornish deserts, so far from the vast

spk_0 raging rivers they called home and essos. So the orphans live on houseboats, and still worship

spk_0 their roonish gods rather than the seven. Teen Queenmaker also talks about Scythas and the girl

spk_0 currently impersonating Marcella back in Sunspir, before dark star brings up the most important topic.

spk_0 They better get to the green blood fast, before the rising sun catches them in the open desert.

spk_0 Soon enough the wind came gusting from the west, hot and dry and full of grit.

spk_0 Arianne drew her veil across her face. It was made of shimmering silk, pale green above,

spk_0 and yellow below, of the colors blending into one another. Small green pearls gave it weight,

spk_0 and rattled softly against each other as she rode. I know why my princess wears a veil,

spk_0 Sir Erie said as she was fastening it to the temples of her copper helm,

spk_0 else wise her beauty would outshine the sun above. She had to laugh. No, your princess wears a veil

spk_0 to keep the glare out of her eyes, and the sand out of her mouth. You should do the same, Sir.

spk_0 She wondered how long her white knight had been polishing his ponderous gallantry.

spk_0 I'm going to guess he was up all night working on that one. Proud of it, too.

spk_0 Finally, Teen Queenmaker comes across some trees, a sure sign of water ahead.

spk_0 When they reach the green blood, Garen rides ahead toward one of his people's houseboats,

spk_0 calling out to his friends, or so he thinks. The door on the pole boat slammed open,

spk_0 out into the sunlight-cept Ario Hota, long axe in hand. Garen jerked to a halt.

spk_0 Arianne felt as though an axe had caught her in the belly. It was not supposed to end this way.

spk_0 This was not supposed to happen. When she heard Dre say, as the last face I'd hope to see,

spk_0 she knew she had to act. Away, she cried, vaulting back into the saddle.

spk_0 Aries protect the princess, Hota thumped the butt of his long axe upon the deck. Behind the ornate

spk_0 rails of the pole boat, a dozen guardsmen rose, armed with throwing spears or crossbows.

spk_0 Still more appeared atop the cabin. Yiddled to my princess, the captain called,

spk_0 else we must slay all but the child in yourself by your father's word.

spk_0 Team Queenmaker starts to comply, everyone that is except for Aries' O'Cart,

spk_0 acting more like an oak head as he defies Hota, declaring that he will die rather than let them

spk_0 take Marcella. We are taken, sir. Arianne might have called out, your death will not free us.

spk_0 If you love your princess, yield. But when she tried to speak, the words caught in her throat.

spk_0 Sir Aries' O'Cart gave her one last longing look, then put his golden spurs into his horse

spk_0 and charged. He rode headlong for the pole boat, his white cloak streaming behind him.

spk_0 Arianne Martell had never seen anything half so gallant or half so stupid.

spk_0 Yeah, she said it. Can't put it any better than that.

spk_0 Hota orders his archers to fire and Aries' hit multiple times. But he still manages to make it to

spk_0 the boat and there his luck runs out. As his horse is killed, swiftly followed into the grave,

spk_0 buys her Aries himself, beheaded by Hota's huge axe. Arianne did not remember climbing from her

spk_0 horse. Perhaps she'd fallen. She did not remember that either. Yet she found herself on her hands

spk_0 and feet in the sand, shaking and sobbing and wretching up her supper. No, was all that she could

spk_0 think. No, no one was to be heard. It was all planned. I was so careful. She heard Aria Hota roar,

spk_0 after him, he must not escape. After him, Marcella was on the ground, wailing, shaking,

spk_0 her pale face in her hands, blood streaming through her fingers. Arianne did not understand.

spk_0 Men were scrambling onto horses whilst others swarmed over her and her companions,

spk_0 but none of it made sense. She had fallen into a dream, some terrible red nightmare.

spk_0 This cannot be real. I will wake soon and laugh at my night terrors. When they sought to bind her

spk_0 hands behind her back, she did not resist. One of the guards men jerked her to her feet. He wore

spk_0 her father's colors. Another bent and seized the throwing knife inside her boot, a gift from her

spk_0 cousin Lady Nim. Aria Hota took it from the man and frowned at it. The prince said, I must bring you

spk_0 back to sunspir. He announced. His cheeks and brow were freckled with the blood of Erie's

spk_0 oak cart. I am sorry, little princess. Arianne raised a tear-strict face. How could he know? She asked

spk_0 the captain. I was so careful. How could he know? Someone told, Hota shrugged. Someone always tells.

spk_0 And that is the synopsis for of the queen maker in the feast for crows. What do you think of this

spk_0 you know what rocks getting to do this podcast with you and celebrating 250 episodes of this

spk_0 specific project. And starting there because the first or even second time I read this chapter,

spk_0 I thought it was fine but it never really stuck in me like say the king's moot or insert any

spk_0 great Brienne or Jamie chapter here. But all the work we've done excavating this text,

spk_0 Martin's words, all the great Tumblr and Twitter and long for analyses over the years

spk_0 have prepared me to say that this chapter is very very very good. Great even. Purely in terms of

spk_0 pros and imagery, it's vivid, it's very colorful. George's pen is at its finest,

spk_0 describing new landscapes the likes we haven't seen since Danny was in the red waste.

spk_0 The colors aforementioned, the shimmering quality to quality to all of it, the dryness, the heat,

spk_0 you can feel it all all of it can be felt too massive punishing effect almost. It's beautiful

spk_0 and it's overwhelming. And cutting through all that haze like an oasis, it reveals our true

spk_0 protagonist, our dornish protagonist here at least, Ariane who in typical George fashion

spk_0 is left completely confounded by the horrors of this world at the end of this chapter.

spk_0 She steps into the protagonist role, right to lose control of everything. And yeah, I'm glad we

spk_0 hit another big one with a round number. We hit the red wedding for episode 200 of course,

spk_0 the st. Theret wedding exactly, but still great one to hit with a big anniversary episode.

spk_0 Like the King's Moot, this chapter feels to me like the center of the book, where George uses

spk_0 every tool in his toolbox to express what a feast for crows is all about. And I think you can see

spk_0 the parallel there just in the chapter title of The Queenmaker. Okay, we had the King's Moot and

spk_0 now we have The Queenmaking. Desperate attempts to fill the void created by everyone who died in

spk_0 the storm of swords. We need a new authority figure, a new center, a new way of living.

spk_0 And in both cases, these coronation ceremonies don't go quite like our P.O.Vs had hoped.

spk_0 These are both failed attempts to move forward. A storm of swords left us in a hole, a grave.

spk_0 And now, all through this book, we just keep on digging like probably Sandorclagane,

spk_0 at the quiet aisle. And there is a lot of things that are different about The King's Moot versus

spk_0 The Queenmaking, too, of course. Instead of the cross section of the culture we got at The King's Moot,

spk_0 we just have a handful of characters. This chapter focuses on like a little RPG squad around Arion.

spk_0 And instead of standing around a big ol' ribcage like at The King's Moot,

spk_0 those characters in this chapter are on the move, giving us our most panoramic view of Doran

spk_0 to date. It is also our introduction to Arion as a P.O.V character. Despite her dominating semi-literally,

spk_0 Aris O'Carts one end only chapter, the story takes on a new sense of scale and momentum with her

spk_0 in charge. And like you say, George animates that panorama with remarkable craftsmanship.

spk_0 This is such a cinematic chapter. A chapter you can see, every gesture, every composition,

spk_0 every wild movement of human and horse, sand and sky. But like The King's Moot,

spk_0 the Queenmaker is above all a perfectly paced and structured chapter, grounding us in both

spk_0 Arion's hopes and the doubts creeping in on the edges, before building us up to the climactic moment

spk_0 that dashes those hopes and confirms those doubts. In a tragic action set piece that is no less

spk_0 effective for being so small scale. So happy 250th everybody. Let's celebrate with a jewel of a

spk_0 chapter that exemplifies why this series is still so rewarding on reread. Well said.

spk_0 So like you said, Arion is kind of like the hidden protagonist of the Doran's storyline. You

spk_0 can see the captain of guards. Seems like if you read that chapter, this is all going to be about

spk_0 the sand snakes. But nope, like I said when we covered that chapter, we don't actually see them

spk_0 again for the rest of the book. They're red herring. They're a red snake. Instead the focus is

spk_0 Arion, gradually emerging from the shadow into the sun. And I think Arion is an underrated character

spk_0 on the whole and a song of ice and fire. And part because we haven't spent much time with her,

spk_0 I think it's easier to appreciate her if you read and reread those winds of winter sample

spk_0 chapters we've been given from her perspective. But I think she's an underrated character, a complex

spk_0 character who exists in an interesting place and kind of the cosmos of George's women across the

spk_0 story as a whole. Like she brought up the dance of the dragon's era in the soil might. Obviously,

spk_0 that's something we've been paying more attention to since House of the Dragon became a thing in HBO.

spk_0 And I think one of the best ways to sum up Arion is that she's allocent, but she thinks she's

spk_0 Reneira. That's Arion's over character arc. She thinks she's Reneira in the context of like,

spk_0 oh, I'm being denied my rightful place. My father has chosen the brother instead.

spk_0 Doron is playing Viserys, Oberyn is playing Damon, Quentin is playing Egg on two.

spk_0 Erie Sokart is playing Christen Cole, it all makes sense in her mind. But as the

spk_0 as that playing kind of falls apart and as we learn more about Doron and Quentin in a way that

spk_0 really complicates that narrative. And as Arion starts moving towards young Griff's plot and

spk_0 those released winds of winter chapters, I think you can see that Arion's perspective might actually

spk_0 be more in line with Alicent coming forward. That rather than trying to claim power in her own

spk_0 right, she's going to try to claim power through other people in her environment, trying to

spk_0 influence people and kind of accept some of the restrictions placed on her while dancing around

spk_0 others. And I think that's interesting. That Georgeist is setting us up to think of Arion one

spk_0 way and taking her in another direction. It shows kind of the the range of her character. And Arion,

spk_0 I think, is a complex character because it's difficult to separate the political ramifications of

spk_0 her actions from the personal motivations driving them, something that's also true of both Alicent

spk_0 and Renera. Arion does, I think, sincerely believe in the Dornish culture that allows women to

spk_0 inherit equally. Demand. It's on this basis, she continually takes charge, not just with this

spk_0 crusade, but kind of just in scenes, in a dance with dragons, in the winds of winter. Arion's like,

spk_0 I'm not going to be demure and demique and whatever the rest of Westeros might think I should be.

spk_0 I know what's right and I'm going to say so. She frames this belief as having descended unbroken

spk_0 from Nymeria. That's how she frames it in this chapter. I am Nymeria's heir, this warrior queen

spk_0 who saved her people, the Roinish by essentially turning them Dornish. So in that light, what seems to

spk_0 her, like Doron's preference for Quentin instead, is a violation of Dornish custom, kind of giving

spk_0 way to the rest of Westeros, which is especially problematic now because all of Dorn has been reminded

spk_0 of why they hate the rest of Westeros. Look what happened to Oberyn. And you're going to pick this

spk_0 moment to do things to handle inheritance, successfully, these important questions. You're going to

spk_0 pick this moment to handle those questions like they would. But then Arion learns differently.

spk_0 She learns in her next B of E chapter near the end of this book, the Princess and the Tower when

spk_0 she finally confronts her dad, great scene. She learns in that scene that his original plan was

spk_0 for Arion to ascend to an even higher status. He wanted her to be queen of Westeros, queen

spk_0 consort of Asceras. And that Quentin would only be Prince of Dorn because then he would be next

spk_0 in line with Arion having taken on this larger role. And now Quentin will be king consort today,

spk_0 and he because of what happened to Viserys. But from what we get the sense of what Doron, he

spk_0 doesn't, he never favored either one of his kids. He was just thinking gender wise, which makes

spk_0 the most sense to marry the Targaryen I might happen to have available at the time. And then the

spk_0 other one can have Dorn. And yet, even after Arion learns that, her resentment does not fade,

spk_0 which I think is fascinating. If you look at her released Winds of Winter sample chapters,

spk_0 when we check back in with her after this big revelation, she thinks repeatedly with

spk_0 trepidation about King Quentin, how silly it is to imagine her little brother marrying a queen,

spk_0 riding a dragon. Will I need to kneel to him? This is again, after being told that Doron will

spk_0 in fact honor Dornish inheritance practices, after she has been told that she will be the heir

spk_0 to Sunspir after all. And I think that can get seem confusing or contradictory, I think if you

spk_0 take her motivation in this book too literally, as being just about being the heir to Dorn and the

spk_0 heir to Sunspir, when it really, what it's really about is not being subordinate to a child that my

spk_0 father has favored. So now she's in this kind of uneasie between position where she's like,

spk_0 technically I got what I wanted, I am the heir to Dorn, but only because Quentin is going to be

spk_0 the king. So I might still have to bend the knee to him. And that's unacceptable even if I get

spk_0 Sunspir. That's something that Doron I think does not seem to appreciate, that emotional dynamics

spk_0 can outlive the political dynamics that create them. Aurean can't just let go of her driving

spk_0 motivation for years on dime because technically it wasn't true, like she still felt that way for

spk_0 years. And in that way she reminds me of Stanis and how Stanis treated not getting the crown is

spk_0 kind of this proxy for the love he never got from his brothers. And Aurean I think is facing a

spk_0 similar thing here in that it's not that she I think she does want to be in charge of Doron,

spk_0 but she's also treating it as a proxy for rejection from her father. What did I ever do to make you

spk_0 hate me so? She as she says to him in her next POV chapter. And Quentin now getting to leapfroger

spk_0 and be king kind of leaves that question unsettled. It gets displaced, the emotions we see in this

spk_0 chapter, they get displaced onto this new dynamic where Aurean is still worried, still resentful.

spk_0 It was about what being ruler of Doron's signified on a personal level. Again, just like storms end

spk_0 for Stanis wasn't just having the castle, it was a symbol of Robert choosing runly over him.

spk_0 And I think those winds of winter chapters from Aurean show that she's going to be driven by this

spk_0 motivation to tie her destiny as well as that of her family and her people to the cause of young

spk_0 griff. And I think young Tiora Toland, this little prophet that we meet in her first winds of winter

spk_0 a release chapter, tells us how that's going to end. They were dancing in my dreams. Everywhere

spk_0 the dragons danced, the people died. And that makes Aurean I think maybe more even than John

spk_0 Connington, the tragic protagonist of that entire like multiple story cluster. And like so many

spk_0 tragedies, this one is built around incomplete information. If Aurean had known the truth all along,

spk_0 none of this would happen. But she doesn't. And so Aris dies and Somersela is mained. And all of that

spk_0 is just a taste of what will come when the dragons start dancing. Though the real track begins midway

spk_0 through the chapter, right away the distinct requirements of survival and Doron become plain.

spk_0 Water is precious, sand and sun are bountiful, and anything not tended to regularly by human

spk_0 hands will be consumed by the desert. It's a wasteland on par with the land of always winter,

spk_0 just an opposite. Maybe not surprising that the material conditions of scarcity and natural

spk_0 brutality have shaped the peoples at the extremes of Westeros to be more egalitarian along the lines

spk_0 of gender. Capacities cannot be regulated to any one subset thereof. This does set up a dynamic

spk_0 backdrop for this chapter here where there is few signs of life, so little water, and yet everyone's

spk_0 relatively safe. It's when they approach the green blood, the vegetation and the river in a word

spk_0 life that they truly encounter death in the form of Aureo Hota's axe. Yeah, that's a great point.

spk_0 That's an interesting kind of contradiction that we see here. Because I like this little kind of

spk_0 opening to the chapter kind of settling us in the context of Doron about how it works here,

spk_0 about how all the geography and politics are kind of built around water and maintaining access

spk_0 to water. That's what gives you power. That's what ties you to a place. That's no longer the case.

spk_0 Here at Shandestown, the well-wrained dry, so there was no longer any reason to be here. Whoever

spk_0 lived here, we don't even hear their names. They moved on. Their descendants were elsewhere and

spk_0 probably don't even remember that their family used to live in Shandestown. Then the sands

spk_0 kept back in as George writes. Beautiful moment. I think there's a couple ways of looking at that.

spk_0 One way is to think about it as representing the sand snakes and the other bastards of Doron,

spk_0 given the last name of sand. It's like when you leave your castle, when you leave your inheritance,

spk_0 everyone who's left kind of creeps in and takes charge. That's what a feast for crows is about,

spk_0 right? What happens when you've abandoned the center of power? The king is dead. Who's going to

spk_0 move in and take over? But I think also maybe even more so, the sand here, creeping back in,

spk_0 represents death. Represents these forces that are always waiting and always winning. That's who

spk_0 really rules Doron is. The sun and the sand, not the people, the people who rely on water.

spk_0 The sun and the sand are more powerful than you and they will be here when you are gone. They will

spk_0 be here when everything you have built is starting to collapse. But that's a great irony because

spk_0 as you say, that's what makes this place useful and safe as a kind of a meeting spot, as a rendezvous

spk_0 point for Ariane's little conspiracy, because no one's here. Why would they be? There's nothing for

spk_0 anyone here. This is the kind of place you move on. You go to someplace like the green blood,

spk_0 there's water, there's irrigation where you can support life. No one guards this place. There's

spk_0 nothing worth caring about. When they get to what looks like the real safe sanctuary, the green blood,

spk_0 that's why it makes perfect sense. That's where area hold is waiting for them because that's when

spk_0 you tap back into Doron's civilization. That's where it suddenly matters. That's where there are

spk_0 resources. That's where there's danger. I also think the backdrop of this ruined castle that the

spk_0 sands are claiming is their own. I think it speaks to the imminent collapse of Ariane's plan,

spk_0 which will also soon be in ruins all around her. But it also speaks to the broader perspective,

spk_0 which is exemplified by areas closing line to the chapter that I love so much. Someone told,

spk_0 someone always tells. The specifics don't matter. The specifics of whoever lived here, at this

spk_0 point time it doesn't matter because it's all going to end this same way. It reminds me of how George

spk_0 handled the whispers in the previous chapter, Brian IV, when they went off to find the ruins of

spk_0 the whispers and all the heads supposedly whispering under the rock, but they're all gone. And now

spk_0 even the stories have died with Nimble Dick, where I think about Naga's ribs and the King's moot,

spk_0 all over and over here in the middle of the feast or just giving us these images of ruins and

spk_0 of the triumph of death. At some level the house always wins and everything we build and contribute

spk_0 is eaten up by time. The way we defy death is we tell stories. We try to pass them on. The stories

spk_0 of Naga's ribs, the stories of the whispers, even the story that Ariane thinks,

spk_0 uh, Serella, my cousin, wanted to know everything about the people who would live here. That's

spk_0 alive. She brushes off the sand. She tries to bring it back to life. But that's how we persist

spk_0 collectively. As individuals we are all too mortal, as this chapter will prove by the end.

spk_0 Before we meet Ariane's crack team, let's appreciate how George's imagery crackles in this

spk_0 moment. A glow of purple and crimson and gold swirling amidst the sand and sun, giving an aura to

spk_0 the ruins and collapse columns. Colors mixing to shimmer and pinks and orange. It's almost like

spk_0 awakening to a brand new day after the drear of the Iron Islands and the Kingsmute and that rainy

spk_0 slog through crack law point in the previous chapter. Yeah, this emphasis on color that you brought up

spk_0 earlier, I think that's really important. This chapter is kind of a visual feast. There's this

spk_0 vibrancy that really makes dawn come alive in your mind's eyes. A specific place that doesn't look

spk_0 like anywhere else we've been in West Rose that uh, locks these people in. This is a sense of home.

spk_0 This is what this is the kind of place that where our story will be told is Orion. Things, the

spk_0 singers will make much of this and it's almost like the imagery reflects that. This is the kind of

spk_0 sunset they'll describe. The bard will begin by describing all these colors before the

spk_0 the narrative passes down to us. And it grounds you in Ariane's and hopes and dreams. They take place

spk_0 on this big scale in her head and kind of seeing that reflected in the landscape. But ironically,

spk_0 it's only so beautiful right now because the sun is setting. Another kind of reversal of uh, you know,

spk_0 images of safety and danger like you were talking about how the ruin is safe and the river is

spk_0 dangerous actually. And in that way in dawn, the nighttime is the safe time. It's not really got to

spk_0 worry about the white walkers coming to get you out of the darkness. The nighttime is like, okay,

spk_0 thank God. The sun's not on. We can move. We can do stuff. We can survive. Sunset is beautiful here.

spk_0 Sunrise is dangerous. Again, going back to how this all might stand in for Ariane's plan. It's also

spk_0 the sun is setting as like the plans or the hopes of her plan are also setting because that's the

spk_0 most of the end. But it's not just the desert and sands that George Wax is poetic about. There's

spk_0 also Dark Star, a.k.a. Sir Gerald Dane, who is described in as much detail as the skyline. His

spk_0 purple eyes so dark there as black as night, the glacier streak of silver in his dark hair.

spk_0 It's all very poetic, very lyrical. And whether Ariane realizes it or not,

spk_0 comes very close to the description of the type of man she used to dream about as a child

spk_0 back when her uncle Oberyn would bring her here. Even now, she fantasizes about him. And well,

spk_0 if you court danger, you get danger. And it's also a description of Oberyn himself. Like when she

spk_0 says, a tall, hard man with black eyes and a widow's peak, that's Oberyn. The widow's peak is

spk_0 emphasized in him and his children. And it's subtly done and it's not spelled out. But what George

spk_0 is saying there is Ariane was having a sexual fantasy about her own uncle. And even she might not

spk_0 consciously realize that that's what's going on. And she certainly doesn't want to touch it

spk_0 consciously. She's verduring on this incestuous desire that is not at all comfortable or healthy

spk_0 for her to dwell upon. So she slams it down. She keeps it inside. She says it makes her uneasy and

spk_0 she moves on. And you could just see that as one of the many, many ways she prefers her uncle to her

spk_0 father. It could just be an expression of a desire that her uncle was her father. That she could be

spk_0 more like the dashing brave, beloved, feared Oberyn and not cautious, almost indolent tyrant

spk_0 sort about DeRan, not someone who seems brave and impressive, someone who's intimidating, someone

spk_0 you want to look up to as a kid. Ariane always preferred Oberyn. Ties right back into her perception

spk_0 of herself as another rinira figure. If that's the case, then Oberyn would be playing Daemon. And

spk_0 the second son of the running around causing trouble. Maybe Ariane was acting out at some level

spk_0 that same desire. But if so, it was never consummated and Oberyn is dead now. So again,

spk_0 Ariane is sitting herself up as rinira, but her story will take her in a different direction

spk_0 entirely. So the dark star is the most notable of Ariane's companions, both by how the chapter

spk_0 frames him and his final actions at the end of it. Back when we introduced Prince Oberyn in a

spk_0 storm of swords, Tyrion 5, we talked about how George would try to go back to that Oberyn

spk_0 well of charismatic danger made human, with both Dario and Darkstar specifically to some more mixed

spk_0 results. I'm not quite as down on Darkstar as I am Dario, because the letter has appeared

spk_0 several times, and we just have a better feel for his character. Dane, I'm willing to grant

spk_0 a lot more grace to since we only really have this chapter with him. But even it's hard to kind of

spk_0 get a read on his motivation or interiority here. Sure, he hates being compared to Arthur, but

spk_0 what else is there? We don't really know, and I guess that's probably intentional because he is

spk_0 supposed to be the wild card throughout Ariane's plan. She brought him, everyone else hates him,

spk_0 especially his areas, and he's the one who names the king's sister. So he does line up as that

spk_0 tragic blind spot, the fatal flaw in her plan, and perhaps her own passions and curiosities,

spk_0 clouding better judgment, which serves your character well enough in that regard. But I am hoping

spk_0 that when we do see him again, probably through Ariohota's eyes, and High Hermitage, we'll learn

spk_0 just a little bit more about him. Rounding out Marcel's royal retinue, if we can call it that,

spk_0 are the following. Dre, aka Andre Dolt, who seems to have done some exploring with Ariane and

spk_0 as a youth. He's the second son of House Dalt and a knight. We got Garen, an orphan of the green

spk_0 blood, basically the Roynar who never integrated with the existing Dornish. So they're basically

spk_0 Roynar Adavis, if you will, whose fellow and Garen's fellow orphans helped Ariane get a beat on

spk_0 Quinten's movements, which we'll talk about shortly. And finally, we got Spotted Silva Santagar,

spk_0 so named for both her freckles and the Spotted Leopard. I'm Santagar Sejol, and they're from Spotwood,

spk_0 or Spotwood, sorry, so. Very Ann Brandeier, and of course, all three will be among the usual suspects

spk_0 when we interrogate who snitched on Ariane. And I coming back to this chapter, I feel like that's

spk_0 kind of the only reason they are there to give us like multiple possible candidates for who could

spk_0 have snitched, because if this chapter does have one flow, I think it's that Ariane's friends are

spk_0 kind of dull. Yes. Like, again, we don't give much time with them, so that's probably why, but they

spk_0 seem kind of interchangeable personality-wise. Like, what Spotted Silva, like, what's Dre's whole deal?

spk_0 We don't really get a sense of that. And I think you can see George improving upon it when Ariane gets

spk_0 her new traveling squad in the winds of winter. The new also seven people that she's sitting at with

spk_0 the treat with young Griff. Like, she has this more personal, interesting personal history with

spk_0 Damon Sand, and she has this fun conflict with her little cousin, Elia, which I think is more

spk_0 developed, even in those brief scenes, than what we get here. Like Dark Star might be annoying,

spk_0 but at least he has a distinct personality. And he has clear motives, ones that reflect back on

spk_0 what Ariane is doing here, the danger she's trying to ignore. He embodies the latent violence

spk_0 underneath the surface, the war she's trying to start, which would kill far more people than

spk_0 just Marcella. But also her, yeah, the crowner is to kill her. People, Deeron couldn't keep her safe,

spk_0 that's what he was so worried about when Eris flashbacked the talking to him in his one POV chapter.

spk_0 He was trying, but now both Eris and Ariane have put her in danger, and that is what Dark Star is

spk_0 to embody. And I agree that Dark Star is an over hated character, and I also prefer him to

spk_0 Dario, because I think he's more coherent. My problem with Dario is that he's in his intro scene,

spk_0 he has described as both a foppish, dandy, and a hard living bad boy. And I just can't make that

spk_0 work in my mind's eye. Like, how was he sleazy and sweaty, but he also has like a mirror-shth

spk_0 foam spilling over his chest? Those seem like two very different kinds of guys. With Dark Star,

spk_0 George focuses in on that transition, where beauty becomes bloody, a vanishing point like a sword's

spk_0 edge. Dark Star is performative, he's more than a little silly, but it's always with this

spk_0 note of anger that he can't more directly express himself. Like Dario delights in word play, and

spk_0 Dark Star sees it as a distraction from sword play. That's what he's really here for, and that

spk_0 tension boiling underneath, I think, is more dramatically interesting. We'll see the same dynamic

spk_0 with Lynn Corbray. A couple chapters from now, when he comes up to the eerie, he's very,

spk_0 very Dark Star-ish as a character, especially how he's used there to be a sword. But above all,

spk_0 Dark Star is here for Arianne, before basically the same reason Dario is there for Danny. As a

spk_0 temptation, that goes horribly wrong. Dark Star is an embodiment of quick and easy violence, a shortcut

spk_0 to achieving Arianne's desires. Note that Dark Star claims to know what Arianne wants more than she

spk_0 does, which Damon Sand also says in the Winds of Winter regarding Quentin when Arianne's like a

spk_0 course I want to back, and Damon Sand says, so you say. Dark Star criticizes Garen, the original

spk_0 Garen, the historical figure they talked about who led the Roinish people when the Valerians came

spk_0 calling, and he defied them for a little while, which makes me think of Rob as a doomed revolutionary

spk_0 king. And then they killed him, the inevitability of fate sinking in, which of course we see all

spk_0 throughout the book, making room for the feast for crows. That's all Garen was in the end,

spk_0 and that's what Dark Star believes, that all of that posturing gives way to the sword. That's

spk_0 all that really matters. Ink gives way to blood. So if you want your own defensive war against the

spk_0 Empire just like Garenne and the Roinish, there's only one way for Arianne to do it. And Dark Star

spk_0 also brings us back to Arianne's sexuality, which is something was focused on in the soil night,

spk_0 George put that front and center, and we saw her manipulating areas in that chapter. But with Dark Star,

spk_0 we see that Arianne can also be the manipulated one, that she can rap a dull milk toast guy like

spk_0 Arianne's around her finger, but she loves a bad boy, and that's a weakness that can be exploited.

spk_0 And we see sex caught up in violence in the way George always likes to do, riding that line between

spk_0 between the erotic and the deadly, that she thinks about how not just having sex with Dark Star,

spk_0 but like having children, even our children would be beautiful to be rivaling even the dragon

spk_0 lords, which ties right back into the Roinish versus the Valerians, ties into the future and to

spk_0 Arianne's potential connection to young Griff. She's thinking about these beautiful children they

spk_0 could have, but Dark Star at the end of this chapter ruins a child's beauty, tries to kill her cell

spk_0 us. So that's who he really is, not the consort of Arianne's dream. He was weaned on venom, as he says

spk_0 at one point. He's poisonous, even more than Oberyn, and Arianne ignores the warnings from her

spk_0 other friends until it's too late. We just need to lock these people in a high school for four

spk_0 years, and I think that would sort out all their interpersonal problems. That's why we have high

spk_0 school in the first place. So you know those homer bits in The Simpsons when he digresses into off

spk_0 topic rants about how much he resents Ned Flanders, despite Flanders not even being there or at fault

spk_0 for whatever is vexing him. Life is one disappointment after another until you just wish Flanders was dead.

spk_0 Exactly. Well, I feel that energy very strongly when Arianne feels deep into thought about her

spk_0 younger brother, poor Quentin. No, not that one. In charitable terms, I think it's safe to say that

spk_0 Quentin lives Renfree in Arianne's head. And honestly, the way she talks about him really makes

spk_0 me think she might despise him. Whether if that's for the perceived usurping of her claim or some

spk_0 other ancient grievance, it's not totally clear. But all this is really funny to me because when we

spk_0 meet Quentin, he's a joke. Okay, maybe that's a bit harsh, but I can't imagine a more defanged,

spk_0 neutered brother to have than the frog we meet in a dance with dragons. Hardly seems fair to

spk_0 resent him so much when he resents himself so hard. And along those lines, Quentin barely thinks

spk_0 about Arianne at all. He mentions her not at all by name, really. And only really thinks of his

spk_0 sister when he thinks about what of a disappointment he's going to be when he comes back as a failure

spk_0 for mezzo, and that's Burned Souter chapter. Doesn't really sound like a guy who's undermining his

spk_0 sister's succession. This flip between the feast chapters and dance reminds me a lot of what I said

spk_0 in Cersei 4 about how mad I was getting when Cersei ordered Davos killed or sent assassins after John.

spk_0 And then actually reading dance and you realize how little reason there was to be mad at Cersei about

spk_0 plans that had completely fallen apart. Same way I feel about all this resentment towards Quentin.

spk_0 I touched on this a little bit earlier, but yeah, here we get into Arianne's primary character

spk_0 motivation, the big, re-Nira parallel that she set up for herself back in the soil night. She believes

spk_0 that she has been disinherited on behalf of her younger brother, and she has been holding that

spk_0 against their father for years. She believes that Doran has rejected her, a personal slight with

spk_0 political ramifications. Given that Doran traditionally does not favor men for inheritance like the

spk_0 rest of Westeros. Like you think about Cadlin was raised as they are to riverrun, but as soon as Edmira

spk_0 was born, that's all over. That's not supposed to happen in Doran. So we get this tragic framework

spk_0 springing from the separation of the children at a young age. I think Arianne finds it so easy

spk_0 to suspect the worst of Quentin because she doesn't know him. She kind of just projects her,

spk_0 all her resentment and fear onto him, and so guarantees a further tragedy for the next generation.

spk_0 It all goes back and back, like Tyrion thought, where I'll just puppet-staking up the strings of

spk_0 our parents and we see that happening very clearly in the case of the Martells. Obrin fought a

spk_0 duel with Lord Ariannewood many, many years ago, and a latter died. So Doran sent Quentin off to

spk_0 kind of make up for that to keep the Ariannewoods from rebelling basically. Here, have my child as

spk_0 a ward slash functionally hostage. Now you have something over me, now we don't have to go to war.

spk_0 Doran ruined his own marriage in the process. Which denied Arianne a helpful mother figure,

spk_0 who I was thinking if Melaria was still around, she could have helped her with all of this.

spk_0 Like, you compare that to Cersei who didn't have Joanna after a certain point when she died

spk_0 berthing Tyrion. Or, contrast with Marjorie, who has always had these helpful maternal figures

spk_0 around her, and maybe that's part of why Marjorie is so poised. And she's not a POV, but from what we

spk_0 can tell, she's not kind of wrought with these resentments and conspiracies the way Cersei and Arianne

spk_0 is. Maybe that's because she had someone to help and nurture her, not just this distant, absent

spk_0 father figure. And Quentin was set off to make up for all of that. The Sandsnakes presented Quentin

spk_0 for that, of course, because he was kind of a living embodiment of an ober and getting put back on

spk_0 his heels. And Arianne was always closer to her cousins anyway, so she just kind of absorbed that

spk_0 feeling. Quentin is this convenient vessel for anything that goes wrong in our lives, and he's

spk_0 not here to stick up for himself anyway. And hey, for the first time reader, we don't know Quentin,

spk_0 we haven't met him, so we're inclined to go along with Arianne. Before George does that very

spk_0 interesting rugpole when we get to Quentin's chappers and dance. And we compared Arianne to Cersei

spk_0 both than that. I think this lines up in some interesting ways also with Asha. She's also kind of

spk_0 trying to find this position relative to her lost brothers, and now also her uncles in a feast for

spk_0 grows. Most of the deaths in the storm of swords were men, powerful men, and kind of the wake of

spk_0 that as the Sands creep into the ruins, like I was saying earlier, room is being made for the women,

spk_0 but only partially and only temporarily. They have to fight for every scrap of power they're going

spk_0 to get. And now that is rippling outward to young Marcella, the next generation, to the question

spk_0 of who ought to be inheriting the Arianne throne. Now I think Arianne is more sincere about this

spk_0 than Ta-E. I think she actually does want to see Marcella on the throne and see that as important,

spk_0 something worth fighting for. But the reality is that even while Arianne is plotting to make Marcella

spk_0 Queen, Durran ironically was trying for years to make Arianne the queen of Westeros. And Arianne never

spk_0 considered that her father's ambitions ran that high at all, in part because he seems so cautious,

spk_0 exactly what bothers the Sands next about their uncle. He only planned to make Quentin Prince of

spk_0 Dorn because he had those higher aims for Arianne, but then Viserys' death changed everything.

spk_0 And Durranne has now switched them around, seemingly with no thought as to how Arianne or Quentin

spk_0 might react to their fate just being changed on a whim like that. They are coins in his hand,

spk_0 as he told his wife, just like how the Targaryens are framed as coins in the hands of the gods,

spk_0 as Bereson tells Danny. In a way, you can see the Martels as the Targaryen story on a smaller,

spk_0 more localized scale. So it fits perfectly, I think they'd wind up teaming with the fake Targaryen,

spk_0 young Griff in order to make those ambitions real. So yeah, a lot of what is transpiring here is

spk_0 directly related to Quentin. Through Garenne's cousins, the orphans of the Greenblood, who sound a

spk_0 lot like Beres' birds in terms of function, Aria knows Quentin is heading east with the Maester

spk_0 and another Lord Son, and even suspects he may be why the Golden Company has broken their

spk_0 existing contract. In all this sort of conspiratorial thinking, she is attributing way too much

spk_0 coming to Quentin than he actually has, and this might be a result of her doing her own conspiracy

spk_0 and thus seeing similar plotting in others around her. That's a good point. She's thinking this

spk_0 must be with Quentin as up to because that's what I'd be doing in his shoes. On reread,

spk_0 knowing the real reason Quentin has left Westeros, it all starts to make sense. Like Aria

spk_0 on thinks that, hey, Quentin, you should have left from Old Town because then you would have been

spk_0 less likely to be spotted by my dornish spies. Well, Duran doesn't care about that. What Duran

spk_0 is worried about is the crown seeing that Quentin is going abroad, which would be more likely if

spk_0 you left from Old Town as opposed to Planky Town, which is probably easier for Duran to control.

spk_0 That's the oppositional relationship guiding Duran throughout. Aria on has Mi versus Quentin,

spk_0 and Duran's head is Mi versus the Lannisters. I have to restore this exiled regime,

spk_0 but I'm doing so from position of weakness so I have to keep it secret. I have to be careful.

spk_0 That there might be discord within dorn, within his own family, his own children. That's not

spk_0 something Duran takes seriously until there's already blood on the sand. And that is despite the

spk_0 fact that his family has already started to fall apart. That we learned Melario of Norvos

spk_0 left years ago, left her husband, left her remaining children because of how Duran sees his

spk_0 family this instrumental way. And that was like the warning. I feel like that Duran didn't

spk_0 heed until too late. Yes. Even with the best of intentions, this is what happens when you treat

spk_0 your family members like Paulons in a game. Yeah, we don't ever meet Melario in these books,

spk_0 and I don't think we will though I kind of hope we do. But she, perhaps a lot like us, the readers,

spk_0 looks to scant at the westerosy way of life. She was not happy that Quentin was fostered away from

spk_0 her. And the political calculation behind it only makes it worse. I mean, people have been used

spk_0 as coin for as long as society has really been around. There have been bride debts and slaves

spk_0 and hostages and metrodoles. But that doesn't make it any less insane. And above all debts,

spk_0 the blood debts. That's what Duran talks about to Melario here. There is a blood debt because of

spk_0 Lord Arnewood's death. And Quentin is the only coin we can pay. That's what it all comes down to.

spk_0 It ends in blood as it began as the sands snakes say in the one chapter said in Dorn in a dance

spk_0 with dragons. Nothing binds the living more than death. We see that over and over again in a

spk_0 feast for crows. That's what the book is all about. What the living do with the dead. What we make

spk_0 of the void they leave behind. The dead are beyond any debts. So we have to pay theirs and pay

spk_0 and pay. We keep paying forever. And so often that coin takes the form of children, people who are

spk_0 defenseless. That's something that runs across the whole series from Ned protecting John at the

spk_0 cost of his marriage to the child sacrifices hinted slash consummate it in the standard storyline.

spk_0 And the great ironies that Duran is doing all of this to avenge the children, avenge his sister,

spk_0 avenge her children who were innocent treated as collateral damage by tywin to prove that he had

spk_0 changed sides. Those children were coins for him too. How tywin frame that the tyranny was, I needed

spk_0 to do that. I needed to be seen doing that. So everyone would know I've left the Targaryens,

spk_0 I've joined Robert, at the price tywin had to pay for joining the cause late, he said I had to

spk_0 prove I was in it for real. That is the end state of treating people like ponds like coins. Tywin

spk_0 is the worst of the worst, but there is a reason he is not widely treated in universe as an

spk_0 aberration from the norm because the logic tywin pursues is a logic familiar to everybody.

spk_0 And Duran has only begun to use Quentin in a way we'll see play out about as poorly as it

spk_0 possibly can in the next book. But Arion feels used as well and she has been just not in the way she

spk_0 thinks. I like what you're saying about the dead are beyond deaths and we have to pay theirs because

spk_0 the last chapter ended with Brienne giving two gold dragons to a dead body. So a little bit more

spk_0 credit dark stars way. Not only does he think Aryan's plan might be shit, but he also seems to

spk_0 have Aryan pegged pretty well in terms of her wants, even if the Quentin of it all is kind of

spk_0 beyond him. What's cheeky in this little exchange between the two are the words they use.

spk_0 Vengeance, justice, blood, almost taping the words at the end of the princess in the tower,

spk_0 the missing the word fire. I guess what that's what the Targaryens are for.

spk_0 But when he says Aryan's plans are doomed to fail, is that a threat or prediction?

spk_0 Was he planning on something like chopping off Marcellus face or was that just impromptu in the moment?

spk_0 More truth, nukes from dark star keep coming. Blades of steel start war as he draws his sword,

spk_0 sharp as lies George describes it hinting at Gerald's falseness perhaps. Ned Stark

spk_0 envouched for the war starting potential of metal. One stroke through his neck and five,

spk_0 six, King's roses are results. Aryan thinks herself kinder, non-beligerent, as no murderer of

spk_0 children she thinks, ignoring the wisdom that to crown her is to kill her, or taking it way back

spk_0 to play the game of thrones, you either win or you die. It's kind of insanity to use

spk_0 serpent crown to clear a new monarch and have to knowingly do it through a conspiracy and thinking

spk_0 you can come out of this without harming innocence. It's just another blood orange falling in the

spk_0 water gardens. And I think she doesn't fully grasp that because for her this is such an intimate

spk_0 power play. Some level this really is about her, her father, and her brother. And like I said,

spk_0 this is different from the King's mood and that we're not seeing a big cross section of

spk_0 Dornage society. The war is hypothetical, the war is abstract, it means to an end. And I think

spk_0 Aryan is not fully grasping the amount of people that would die in the process because she,

spk_0 again she sees it as a proxy for these more emotional, personal decisions. It's that conflation we

spk_0 see the political and the personal we see coming through strongly in this part of the chapter.

spk_0 When Dark Star says, you know, this plan of yours may not yield what you want. And what is it I want,

spk_0 sir? Aryan asks and she's asking it very kind of archley and rhetorically, but he had to

spk_0 legit my question. Aryan, do you know exactly what it is you want? And how can you sort that out

spk_0 from the web of lies your father has surrounded you with? And Dark Star says, the sands, snakes,

spk_0 freed, vengeance, you want a little taste of lion blood? And she thinks that in my birthright,

spk_0 I want sun spear, my father's seat, I want Dorn. So was this about the cause or was this about your

spk_0 own personal succession, your issues with your family? She frames it all, I want justice. So I

spk_0 think that is something she sincerely believes, but it's also kind of a shield for these messy

spk_0 reality. She doesn't want to fully tease apart and sort through that again that personal versus

spk_0 political problem we see again with with Marcelo when she's like when they tell Marcel to your brother

spk_0 has usurped your throne. And Marcel is like, Tom and clearly thinking, Tom can't usurp anything.

spk_0 Tom and can't even finish his beats. But it's not about them as individuals. It's about what they

spk_0 represent and about the people standing behind them and the people standing behind them. That the

spk_0 kind of collapse of people's political power into who they are as fragile individuals. We've

spk_0 already seen that with Tywin. His death brought him low, wasn't a god after all. And his death has

spk_0 really opened up opportunities for the sands to come creeping in, opening up opportunities for the

spk_0 feasting crows as Ariane realizes here when she, the last person in West Rose to have her through

spk_0 the book finally learns about Tywin's death, she thinks, well that's great. Like he was probably

spk_0 going to be leading the opposition against me. I didn't want to fight a war against Tywin. And

spk_0 if Cersei is in charge, maybe they'll accept Marcelo. Maybe death is on my side. Maybe these big

spk_0 voids growing in West Rose society are exactly the gaps I can fill. And then we shift into more

spk_0 kind of a humorous tone when Erisokart shows up, bumbling his way through things, wearing a King's

spk_0 card cloak for no reason whatsoever, other than to tell himself he's still doing the right thing.

spk_0 He's still a proper night, no disguise, no subterfuge, hasn't told Marcelo a thing, useless as a

spk_0 conspirator. And we get this little conversation about how he handled things at Sunspir. And to

spk_0 give Eris some credit, he seems like he handled that well. Like he scared off the doctor, scared off

spk_0 the maester, disguised one of the handmaids, disguised one of the knights as himself. This emphasis

spk_0 on kind of on stand-ins, on surrogates, again, makes me think of this as a proxy war. Ariana is

spk_0 carrying all this out as a way of dealing with her father, dealing with her family. And you have

spk_0 these people standing in for other people. No one is being fully honest about who they are,

spk_0 or about why they're doing what they're doing. And we see that in Ariana's POV, or in her

spk_0 monologue, not just when she's talking to Eris, but when she's thinking about her father,

spk_0 thinking about what will happen to Duran. And we see this kind of contradiction in her feelings,

spk_0 that she is functionally rebelling against her father here. She intends to not just assert herself

spk_0 over Quentin, but also assert herself over Duran. She says it's time for him to retire. Time for him

spk_0 to be forcefully retired, sent to the water gardens. But she's also like, I want him to lay down his

spk_0 burdens and be surrounded by kids and the smell of food for the rest of his life. Like she clearly does

spk_0 still love him, as we see when they talk again in the princess and the tower. That's why his

spk_0 rejection has wounded her so much, because she does love him and want his love and return. When she

spk_0 thinks to herself, we couldn't have a larger party because every additional man doubled the risk

spk_0 of betrayal. The big irony there, of course, being that even in her small party, someone sells her

spk_0 out. But she thinks that much my father taught me at least. So this caution comes from Duran.

spk_0 And she, even though she does not fulfill his, what he wanted from her in this moment, she's still

spk_0 thinking about him, still learning from him. That relationship is important and becomes kind of the

spk_0 the essence of the storyline when we boil it down in the princess and the tower. And she also

spk_0 thinks to herself, he's going to lock up Quentin in the water gardens too. Presumably that would go

spk_0 over a lot less well than it would with Duran. But she thinks that's worth it to keep him from stealing

spk_0 her birthright. Comparing herself to Nymiri, she looks up in the stars in that beautiful moment,

spk_0 thinking about all the stars behind Nymiri's esophage. When the irony is, like Quentin is the one

spk_0 kind of going back over Nymiri's journey. He's the one going back east, back into the remnants of

spk_0 the Valyrian Empire, back towards where they fought their were with the Reunish. But Nymiri's people

spk_0 had to burn their boats, never go back and Quentin's never going to come home either.

spk_0 So hypothetically, if I was a young girl, Ali whisked away by my protector and taken out to the

spk_0 middle of the desert to meet a bunch of strangers and they all started calling me queen, I'd be like,

spk_0 what the fuck is going on here? What happened to my brother? Am I going to die? I mean, I guess I get

spk_0 Aris not telling Mersela anything because he'd probably have fucked that up in some way.

spk_0 But it does kind of seem that Ariane's crew forgot that a little child, a literal child,

spk_0 is at the center of their plans. Yes, Mersela is smart and precotious and plays a devastating

spk_0 game of Sivas, but a child all the same. A child who may not understand what is being said about

spk_0 her family, about politics, and a child who will likely tire easily when out in the desert sun

spk_0 amongst a bunch of locals and hardened warriors. In defense of these conspirators though,

spk_0 they at least know how to speak statecraft.

spk_0 Ariane tells Mersela that she has friends who care about her. Meanwhile, her younger brother has

spk_0 evil men or counselors surrounding him, scheming viseas you can just picture.

spk_0 This sort of propaganda is right in our modern day. If you talk about a friendly nation,

spk_0 we talk about the Reagan administration or thatcher government. If it's an evil enemy,

spk_0 it becomes the Castro regime. Boy, politics sure are easy when everyone on my side is ontologically

spk_0 good and everyone on the other side is ontologically evil. But I do enjoy dark start getting

spk_0 annoyed at all these Arthur Dane comparisons, but I'm affectionately rolling my eyes at him saying

spk_0 I am of the night. Come on man, you are not that man. It's a good attempted or reforming,

spk_0 but just a little bit too thick. But big news does come with ares like you said,

spk_0 Tywin dead, Cersei queen, imp fled. Watching Ariane try to make sense of a bunch of people she's

spk_0 never met before is actually kind of funny because Ariane again doesn't lack sense, but her

spk_0 pernastications are kind of way off. Cersei is not endearing anyone to the thought of a woman's

spk_0 rule. And even if she was, her plan as intended is to undermine Cersei's rule,

spk_0 negating said advantage. And I also want to shout out the little hand made in deception that

spk_0 you talked about, the stand-ins and surrogates. It's very smart of Miss Sulla to have a Cara

spk_0 Knightly to her Padme Amidala for that. We are going to see kind of a similar switcher

spk_0 rue over in Winterfell with Jane Poole, in which case a spear wife is going to pose as faria

spk_0 so that theon and Jane can make their escape. All building up to young Griff at least as far

spk_0 as these storylines are concerned with John, kind of as the counterweight to that in the north.

spk_0 Yeah, but the I am of the nightline is so silly coming from Darkstar as a way to separate

spk_0 himself from Arthur Dane who he presents so much. But I think it stands out as very goofy

spk_0 and isolation. I think it works in context because like Darkstar is saying this to try to impress

spk_0 an 11 year old. And it doesn't even work. So I do think George is deliberately undercutting

spk_0 Darkstar in a way that makes him funny. And not just the dorge is aware of the joke and playing

spk_0 with it. Well at the same time he wants us to remember that Darkstar is dangerous in large part

spk_0 because of how silly he is, because of how resentful and petty he is. That's what makes him dangerous.

spk_0 We see that when Ariane thinks about having him wipe out the ironwoods root and branch.

spk_0 That's not a joke. That's a terrible thing to contemplate, but I don't doubt he'd be capable of it.

spk_0 So many of what's great about Eris getting into the details about who replaced him and who

spk_0 replaced Marcella and Ariane thinks about we're going to get to the green blood and we spend all

spk_0 this time describing the green blood and the orphans and their boats and where we're going to go next.

spk_0 And George does all that to make it seem plausible that this is the plot, that this is what's

spk_0 happening next, that we're queen making. The chapters called that right? That's all we're probably

spk_0 going to get like four more Ariane chapters in this book just about crowning Marcella and source

spk_0 he's going to find out about that. It's going to be a whole war. And that feels plausible to us

spk_0 because of all the details George is putting in. You have this field we're building up to this moment

spk_0 that Ariane's plan is fully going to become clear, especially because we're learning more about

spk_0 it as the chapter goes along. We're kind of in Eris O'Carte shoes of only knowing a little bit at the

spk_0 start. So it's plausible that this is the plan. This is the plot. And that's what makes it powerful

spk_0 when he pulls the rug out from under all of us and we watch that just dissolve in front of us in

spk_0 the whole Ariane's whole plans and dreams and hopes for the future just collapse.

spk_0 Yeah, that's perfect because I kind of have a theory specific to a song of ice and fire

spk_0 because you were talking about the trope how if a story lays out a plan in full then something's

spk_0 going to go wrong and it's not executed as such. Right. Well in Westeros if someone says songs are

spk_0 going to be written about this day or about what we do here today no songs are going to be written

spk_0 about that day because it's going to go to shit. I am partially thinking about the show scene

spk_0 with Theon and Winterfell at the end of season two where he tries to give that big rallying

spk_0 speech to the other iron borne and says you know women are going to think about us the Winterfell

spk_0 10 when they're having sex with their lovers and all this kind of bullshit before Ralph Innocent

spk_0 bonks him on the head. Just whenever someone says songs are going to be sung about it I guarantee you

spk_0 they will not. No, but this is kept secret and they lie about it so there will never be songs

spk_0 songs. Nope of what they do here. So Ariane's father had taught her to trust sparingly a theme that

spk_0 still hot coming off Brienne for. Oh yeah. oddly she thinks herself is not being too trusting by

spk_0 keeping her party small even though we know that someone talked possibly someone in the party

spk_0 and another member of the party is going to attack the princess upon capture so so much for all that

spk_0 trust and for all this talk about learning trust from her father like you were talking about

spk_0 she's actively conspiring against him despite wishing him no specific harm. The idea that a prince

spk_0 of Dorne a great lord of Westeros will just be a fate accomplished to this plan is wishful thinking

spk_0 and extremely deceitful and maybe also a great underestimation of Prince Doran himself.

spk_0 Whether it's agreement or ambition motivating her Ariane is hindered by her blind spots which

spk_0 is a big reason this plan never really takes off. Dorne will rally to my banners seems as

spk_0 delusional as what Viseric said about Lord sowing dragon banners in secret. You made the Alice

spk_0 into renair a comps earlier but the more immediate comparison for me is Cersei who schemes far

spk_0 outstrip her capacity to execute them and whose analysis of reality might be a little skewed.

spk_0 And there's also a comparison to Asha from her recent appearances in those King's

spk_0 mood chapters. When the party approaches the green blood Ariane starts thinking ahead to winning

spk_0 the allegiances of sandstone and hellhold which she had quote no doubt would be forthcoming

spk_0 like Asha the King's mood she is banking on noble support she has not successfully attained

spk_0 based on innuendo and past relationships. And maybe the most glaring of these blind spots is the

spk_0 dark star himself. She thinks if any house joins the lannisters against her she would have dark

spk_0 star destroy them root and branch. Her words this makes clear to me that she knows exactly what

spk_0 kind of man dark star is what sort of exceptional violence he is capable of which makes his

spk_0 defection at the end all that much more foreseeable. And this whole line of thought betrays her

spk_0 earlier sentiment that she is not a murderer of children. Destroying a house again in her words

spk_0 root and branch would probably require killing some children facing down Tom and's coalition

spk_0 also necessarily put Tom in in harm. So we've talked about the orphans of the green blood who are

spk_0 no orphans but rather descendants from ninerias 10,000 ships who did not want to be part of that

spk_0 new roinard dornish cultural milieu. Instead they went off to find the nearest river to be return

spk_0 guys for the pole boat lifestyle. I think we see an analog of this with the wildlings and

spk_0 johns chapters and dance. They go along with stannis's requirement to be relocated to the south

spk_0 of the wall but as soon as the king's eyes are turned elsewhere they go back to carving faces

spk_0 into trees and praying to the old gods. Speaks to dorn as being a more complex place than I

spk_0 might have seen from afar of having many different cultures coming together. And of how that

spk_0 changes how you look at your history like nineria was thinking of ninerias this great role model

spk_0 this great shining example she led her people across the sea. I'm going to be just like her.

spk_0 She was a woman who took charge that's what I'm doing but for garen and the other the people

spk_0 along the green blood they have a much more painful relationship to nineria who was their leader

spk_0 who did save their lives but also brought them to this place permanently that they did not want to

spk_0 live. So it's a lot more complicated for them this this question of home and succession is a

spk_0 very different for them than it is for arian. And mercella doesn't know she's like I thought you

spk_0 you all were the roinard you dornish I mean and you get the sense mercella is bright but she

spk_0 probably just knows the roinard from like the royal oath you know my brother tomony's the king

spk_0 of the andals the roinard and the first men you guys are the roinard that's why that's in there

spk_0 not realizing that people in dore might have a different relationship to that history. And also

spk_0 the sense of the orphans of the green blood this very haunting way they try to recreate their life

spk_0 on the mighty river of the roin even though they're on the green blood this tiny tiny excuse to

spk_0 a river compared to the mother roin. It speaks to regret I think is this universal force as

spk_0 it's kind of unifying plasma in the dornish storyline regret on a personal level on a collective

spk_0 level regret across generations that we see we were talking about Doron's and in quentin away

spk_0 in the replife of that regret on a mass cultural level that's a lot of what's what's haunting the

spk_0 people of dorn right now is regret loss grief and now we just see kind of another version of that

spk_0 with the orphans of the green blood. And when you think about that kind of a changing relationship to

spk_0 the land and to the the meaning the culture and history of dorn it makes me think about the bit

spk_0 in this chapter where arian is watching Erisokart basically cook himself in his armors they

spk_0 were right across the sand the buffoon and she's thinking about how when dare on Targaryen to

spk_0 write a conqueror dorn he said yes they have the sun in the spear the two gray weapons of dorn on

spk_0 the very a sigil of house martelle arian zone family but the sun is the deadlier weapon and so it

spk_0 was for everyone who tries to invade dorn but that doesn't mean that the sun is the the that doesn't

spk_0 mean that the sun is the dornishman's friend arian has to keep herself safe from the sun the whole

spk_0 party dark storm concluded is worried about getting to the green blood before the sun rises the sun

spk_0 will kill the dornish too with it just learned how to live with it better and so I think that

spk_0 speaks to arian's desire to control certain things that are out of her control and to master

spk_0 things that she can't necessarily master you the sun is not your friend is not a weapon you can

spk_0 choose even if you have it on your family sigil and her her plan is going to turn against her

spk_0 dark star included just in that same way in the midst of the wasteland they eventually come to the

spk_0 green place shrubs and like greenery pretending the appearance of the green blood itself but it

spk_0 is aria hotah who is there to meet them there's still a pager to left in this chapter but arian

spk_0 is stopped dead in her tracks right here it was not supposed to end this way she already knows it's

spk_0 over at this exact moment no need for arian's charge or dark stars whatever dark star was doing

spk_0 the plan was snuffed out just in the knowing of it aria aria says only her and mercila will be

spk_0 spared if they don't surrender so naturally arian's charges this is a moment that works in part

spk_0 because of that arian's chapter we had previously being inside his own dull shame filled headspace

spk_0 sets this moment up for maximum effect and plausibility something we may not have gotten if we

spk_0 saw that meeting from arian's point of view and speaking of arian she is silent she says nothing

spk_0 year on would be proud for someone winning her way with words so far she has nothing to say to

spk_0 arian's when he pulls his sword out nothing to say to calm him or order him or stop him she eventually

spk_0 lets out a streak for his stupidly gallant attack but in the end aria cuts him up exactly like

spk_0 arian cuts up that one urchai at the end of fellowship of the ring and the ending of the chapter

spk_0 reminds me a lot of the an6 from aklash of kings where ramsie springs his coup and winter fell

spk_0 is left a violent confusing mess mercila is bleeding crying people are screaming dark star is gone

spk_0 although that's something that's not really told to us here like that thean chapter we have to

spk_0 wait for future chapters to have any real idea about what happened and george has another wonderful

spk_0 phrase turned here about how the green blood swallowed the red great as the chapter as a whole is

spk_0 it really elevates itself in this final stretch i think this is what everyone remembers the queen

spk_0 maker for and it's so well executed all that like detailed buildup i was talking about all the

spk_0 details of the conspiracy what arian thinks is going to happen next everyone getting to the green

spk_0 blood all of it just stops dead as soon as aria hoata steps out on that boat both arian and the reader

spk_0 you feel that pit descend in your stomach you know it's all gone even before your kind of your

spk_0 brain catches up starts working through the details you know that means it's over and that's who

spk_0 aria hoata is he's this this symbol of death symbol of the end of your plans aria's was thinking how

spk_0 so and how how uneasy he always felt around aria hoata and arian says you do not know him he is

spk_0 terrible when roused that's that's who hoata is here to be this kind of instrument of de ron's

spk_0 will of fate and destiny slamming home and and ending your conspiracies ending all your hopes and

spk_0 dreams for the future he's just there and i like that we never get like the specifics of what

spk_0 exactly happened like how quickly de ron heard about this and then he sent aria out and they

spk_0 somehow got here fast enough and what happened to the orphans we don't learn like what happened to

spk_0 the people who usually own these boats are they dead are they in jail we don't know any of that

spk_0 and stripping those logistical details away giving us just this image of hoata stepping out into

spk_0 the sun that helps the tone because it makes it feel more like a nightmare and that's what I really

spk_0 remember about this chunk is that arian thinks i must have fallen asleep somewhere in the sand like

spk_0 this can't be happening this is this is a bad dream this is like a stress dream of having about

spk_0 how things could could possibly end poorly and just the the slow accumulation of details how the

spk_0 pace stops and then ramps back up how dork is jumping over certain things like you said about dark

spk_0 start getting away and hint is that the dream like feeling that arian is collapsed into this

spk_0 this nightmare of her own making and has no way out and like you said though there's also that kind of

spk_0 kind of comedic satirical angle built into this nightmare scene with aries oak heart

spk_0 it was so perfect what george says about his final ride arian had never seen anything half so

spk_0 gallant or half so stupid and it really is both of those things like it is an incredibly courageous

spk_0 brave moment that aries rides directly into death knowing it might happen giving one last look to

spk_0 arian he gives it all but it's totally useless like what is the best case scenario for aries oak

spk_0 heart here like he kills all these guys and then they get away with mercella and then at that

spk_0 point they're just in full out war with deron martel like there was no no winning at this point his

spk_0 dark star says are you blind it's it's over they have no chance and ironically if you know aries

spk_0 is like oh you will not take her well i draw breath i will keep mercella safe but area hoeta says

spk_0 will kill everyone except arian and mercella we're gonna we're not gonna touch mercella the actual

spk_0 threat to mercella is behind iris actually he leaves mercella vulnerable by riding away from her

spk_0 so he's not fulfilling his king's guard vows at all like when he says oh you will not you will not

spk_0 take her well i draw breath take her where though hoeta is going to take mercella back to sunspir

spk_0 back to the status quo which aries oak heart was perfectly fine with until recently

spk_0 so i think what we're seeing here is if like if brian gives us the reality of chivalry without

spk_0 the trappings aries oak heart shows us the trappings of chivalry without the reality it's the opposite

spk_0 this is all all our performance on aries is part all a role he wants to play so he can avoid humiliation

spk_0 avoid self-awareness what he his nightmare scenario is not mercella being taken by iriohota

spk_0 aries oak heart's nightmare scenario is it being exposed to everybody what he has done

spk_0 that he's been sleeping with arian that he wrote off on this plot to conspire and get mercella away

spk_0 he feels such shame at the thought of everyone finding out about this that he would literally

spk_0 rather die and essentially commits suicide by cop here just riding straight into iriohota's axe

spk_0 i love the detailed ordescribes of like even aries his armor at this short range

spk_0 he may as well be wearing paper for all that it matters against the crossbows it does not matter

spk_0 so it's that that perfect uh mixture i think of real emotion which we do get from arian's perspective

spk_0 i think dork is a good job of capturing arian realizing only now that it's too late she might have

spk_0 actually caught some feelings for aries oak heart like at the up to this point she's like this

spk_0 lunk like he's fine he's fun to fuck he's useful for my plot whatever you goof all only at the end

spk_0 is arian think wow i might actually like him and now it's too late and like you said the green

spk_0 blood swallowing the red the blood is gone it's like he never lived at all and now everyone will lie

spk_0 about why and where and when and how every so cart died he doesn't even get the dignity of a true

spk_0 story he may as well never have existed at all and this is again so well paced and so

spk_0 well written on dork's part locking us into arian's puv this is where the the disassociation starts

spk_0 to kick in where time starts skipping ahead for arian the sight of aries dying and it's her fault

spk_0 she can't handle that so much that she just she's suddenly on the ground doesn't

spk_0 remember falling off a horse she's on the ground she's puking she looks up and what she sees is

spk_0 again this nightmare like suddenly mercella is also on the ground and screaming and covering her

spk_0 eyes and blood is coming out like dorks could have written this in such a way where we see dark

spk_0 star attack mercella and write off so we know exactly what's happening while it's happening

spk_0 but instead this nightmare is quality where mercella poor sweet innocent young mercella

spk_0 is suddenly horribly wounded and we don't know why and we don't know how which is part of this

spk_0 flow of blood and horror like on a continuum with aries his death like it caused that somehow

spk_0 only later do we learn okay dark star did it that makes sense the only clue we get here is a

spk_0 area hold to going after him he must not escape after him but we don't know who the him is

spk_0 so it's almost like arian has at some psychic cosmic level caused this wound to poor mercella

spk_0 and caused it to herself or the moment that this association is kicking in when arian says she

spk_0 hears someone else yelling no please this was not supposed to happen and clearly the person

spk_0 yelling that is arian because she was just thinking this was not supposed to happen but she says

spk_0 that someone else some foolish little girl like arian has collapsed back into childhood

spk_0 Doron says in her next chapter used to come running to me when you skinned a knee and for a moment

spk_0 that's who arian is again no please I had control over this this was not supposed to happen

spk_0 another word she's reverting to mercella's age and then she sees what happened to mercella

spk_0 it's like it's happening to young arian as well all her innocence gone all at once

spk_0 and then hope to comes down to her covered in aries ho cart's blood and he has that little moment

spk_0 ricaos I am sorry little princess and they get the sense that he means it he really does wish

spk_0 none of this ever happened but if he had to do it again he would his loyalties are clear he works

spk_0 for death and he has this broader almost zen perspective on how this the cyclical and predictable

spk_0 nature of all these plots of how arian has kind of made the same mistakes her father has made like

spk_0 she says I learned all this from him I was so careful how could he know that's what Doron must be

spk_0 wondering every night about the landisters I gotta be so careful how are they gonna know how are

spk_0 they gonna figure it out what's what's gonna be the slip that gives me away and I'll have my moment

spk_0 when death steps into the sun and comes for me hota doesn't pretend that there was no conspiracy

spk_0 it doesn't look what no one told what are you talking about nor does he name who it was he just

spk_0 says someone told and then he shrugs someone always tells and you get the sense hota doesn't even

spk_0 know who it was that told and it doesn't matter to him because for him this point is someone was

spk_0 always gonna tell you were never fully gonna get away with this it's you know this your little

spk_0 ship here was always gonna spring a leak it was brittle you couldn't put it together

spk_0 but the problem is that also applies to dad that applies to Doron and his own conspiracy that also

spk_0 has its thing as he says you know we we make our careful plans and then the gods throw them all over

spk_0 the place and that's exactly what happens arian here ironically in this moment of total disjunction

spk_0 between father and daughter is the moments there their most alike and in a way you know someone

spk_0 always tells is kind of freeing because it's like well yeah maybe then trust is a lie and you

spk_0 can't keep secrets you may as well just go full steam ahead or do nothing when you play the game

spk_0 of thrones you winner you die there is no there is no middle ground and I think you can see

spk_0 what are you almost trying to do here is trying to hold that middle ground and in the end the center

spk_0 cannot hold so moving on to a foreshadowing and groundwork a lot of the roonish stuff here the

spk_0 backstory just seems like world building getting you a sense of dawn getting a sense of the again

spk_0 the multiplicity of peoples of dawn like I said but it also pays off in a way when we get to

spk_0 Tyrion in dance when we actually go over that territory when we sail down the mother roon and

spk_0 kind of see the remnants of the roonish territory and a very haunting and and for Lauren kind of

spk_0 way which I think I think it helps the door kind of gets the exposition out of the way here so

spk_0 then when we get the Tyrion there's a lot going on in those chapters too so we can kind of just soak

spk_0 in this world that we've already been given to understand a little bit yeah and it is a kind of a

spk_0 nice illustration of like a mass migration or not quite a dispossession but they were kind of

spk_0 forced to avoid the valerians so you kind of see where they were where they are now and all this

spk_0 trying to claim a kind of culture or time that's been lost to both sides of the narrow sea on

spk_0 that front and speaking of Tyrion in dance also some set up here that pays off there that talk

spk_0 about the golden company what they might be up to are he on as soon as Quentin has hired them

spk_0 of course he hasn't actually they're going to be on young griff's team which will pay off and full

spk_0 me get the Tyrion's chapters again I think the golden company might have felt like they were

spk_0 coming out of nowhere if they were suddenly so prominent in dance so George is working to

spk_0 working hard and feast to build them into our memories so we know who they are kind of at least

spk_0 when they show up and it feels a little bit like a barista in the clash of kings like everyone

spk_0 trying to figure out what it's he doing because wherever he shows up is going to really swing

spk_0 things and I think the golden company kind of functions the same way at this part of the story

spk_0 and lastly in talking about the Sevas games played between Marcel and Tristan they talk about

spk_0 Marcel's dragon always take Tristan's elephants yeah which might be an illusion to what's

spk_0 going to happen between young griff and Daenerys when they come into encounter I feel like there's

spk_0 a lot of foreshadowing for that in these area on chapters because it is in that wins a winter

spk_0 preview chapter that we get the line from Tior about the dragon's dancing and everyone dying so

spk_0 makes sense because I do think a lot of this dornish stuff is mostly there to buttress the young

spk_0 griff storyline to give us eyes on that and also give us you know give it more political half by

spk_0 having a real kingdom backing them so I like seeing all that being seated here already yeah there's

spk_0 a glimpse of the real direction of this plot there and it will be another Sevas game where Tiorian

spk_0 convinces young griff to go to Westeros first which is really what sends him an occlusion

spk_0 course with dorn so everyone's playing the game literally and otherwise moving to theory and

spk_0 discussion pretty obvious question I think for this chapter coming right at the end when Arian

spk_0 is desperate to know who gave me up who sold me out to dad and Hota does not confirm who it was

spk_0 and Duran does not confirm who it was when we get to the princess and the tower later on the book

spk_0 so let's decide here who was it who told an Arian who snitched to Duran and led to the queen

spk_0 maker plot falling apart dark star and of episode the end thank you for listening okay so

spk_0 this was okay this is one of those things that's not like one of the song of ice and

spk_0 fire mysteries that I turn over in my head constantly like the pink letter or anything like that

spk_0 or any of Danny's prophecies I think a couple years ago probably reading someone like you or your

spk_0 roommate I might have just settled on spotted silver which I think is maybe the safe answer out of

spk_0 the people who are here as part of Arian's crew but I made the mistake of going on reddit and seeing

spk_0 what other people have said I found one of our old friends bailed a bard they moved forward with

spk_0 the taeine theory the taeine san theory as you mentioned earlier in this episode taeine had also

spk_0 mentioned possibly crowning mercella taeine is also someone that they thought might be capable of

spk_0 poising Duran in that first episode with aria ojota so it shows that she might not have she might

spk_0 be willing to cross some lines in terms of her kinship relationships the theory I think kind of

spk_0 is built on her being tied to the fagon contingency that she might actually be septal amours a child

spk_0 which would explain the birthmarks of course the motive here is the bigger question is like

spk_0 what would taeine be doing this for is it part of like a various plot or something like that I think

spk_0 that's kind of empty I am going to also pitch the other theory I read on reddit which is Damon Sand

spk_0 who does not have a presence in this chapter I think maybe mention but that's it he went up with

spk_0 over into kingslanding and I think we found out somewhere that the crowning mercella was actually

spk_0 something oberin had talked about oh he talked about it in terion 5 a storm of swords that they could

spk_0 crown mercella or how she'd be next in line for the crown so theoretically that's how Damon Sand

spk_0 could be just aware of a general crowning mercella plot and then Damon Sand's also going to be a

spk_0 accompanying merce arian in her winds of winter journey to that could be a spy for Duran Martel

spk_0 I probably need to pull up the reddit post and go through the details but I feel like those are

spk_0 the two candidates because several points through the area on chapters she talks about both taeine

spk_0 and Damon Sand being very close to her as close as possible that they share almost everything

spk_0 I think those would have a little bit more dramatic weight than say spotted selva or andre adult

spk_0 but then again I also think this is kind of a mystery the story might have passed where it's not

spk_0 like that big or that important or maybe I don't I can't see what pivots on it unless again it is

spk_0 someone so close to arian that it matters like a taeine sand or a Damon sand my guess is taeine if

spk_0 it has to be anyone and like you say it might not be anyone when this might just be let fester for

spk_0 arian someone always tells might be just a message from george to be like the point is not who

spk_0 betrayed arian the point is that she wasn't ready for now as to reshape herself in the wake of it

spk_0 but I think taeine makes sense for a few reasons one is that yeah this is personal connection

spk_0 arian is very close to her their friends closer than sisters arian thanks to one point that would be

spk_0 very powerful dramatically if arian learns that and then was kind of at a distance from from that

spk_0 side of her family going forward like you say taeine kind of was part of the queen making conspiracy plot

spk_0 or at least knew about it so she would have some useful information as to why it could be simple

spk_0 is just getting out of jail like the sand snakes are locked up in the tower in sunspere this whole

spk_0 book taeine might have just told deron what she needed to get her freedom to secure her safety

spk_0 uh give her uncle what he needed and I think it makes sense it's a useful misdirection to have the

spk_0 the traitor be someone who's not even here so that arian is doomed from the outset and all these

spk_0 people are kind of under this this misapprehension and doomed even as they ran out to get

spk_0 her some like a crowned I think that fits to her just storytelling strategies as a whole so if

spk_0 it's anyone my guess is on my guess is on taeine sand we'll see if George has that planned for a

spk_0 truth nuke to be dropped later in the story so that is going to wrap us up for this episode on the

spk_0 queen maker thank you so much for listening thanks again to everyone for sending in their questions

spk_0 for a big 250th episode AMA we'll get to those questions we didn't get to in later episodes

spk_0 as always if you want to drop us a rating or review on your podcast app of choice we really appreciate

spk_0 that it helps to listeners find us you can check out our patreon if you haven't already at patreon.com

spk_0 slash notacast aso aso aso aso aso for a song of ice and fire where patrons get benefits including

spk_0 regular early access to our regular song of ice and fire episodes and exclusive episodes

spk_0 every four weeks you can follow us on social media at notacast aso aso aso for should

spk_0 email.com and you can find me at work went and i'm at the nuclear bomb so next week speaking of

spk_0 those patreon only episodes we have our next patron only episode coming out next week we had our

spk_0 poll that we do every four weeks for our patrons to pick the topic this time around they picked

spk_0 westerosy revolution at topic we've been teasing for a bit Marie talk about some potential social

spk_0 political changes that could come to the future of westeros with a future westeros would look like

spk_0 years down the line that's gonna be coming out for all of our patrons next week and then of the

spk_0 week after that next time in a song of ice and fire we head back to bravos for a feast for crows

spk_0 rya too in which rya officially joined the faceless men just as soon as she gives up all of her stuff

spk_0 average dormant experience honestly you gotta give up some stuff to move in there very technically our

spk_0 last rya chapter exactly very correctly you start moving into the canals and the blind girl

spk_0 in names like that so the last chance to hold on to her identity which is very appropriate for that

spk_0 chapter so thank you again for listening everybody we will see you next time not in westeros but in

Episode 250: A FEAST FOR CROWS, THE QUEENMAKER: "Blood on the Sand"

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