Culture
Between The Vines S5E12: Drought-like conditions and SLF spottings
In this episode of Between The Vines, hosts Jennifer Phillips-Russo and Andrew Woot discuss the impact of drought-like conditions on grape production in the Lake Erie region. They delve into the signi...
Between The Vines S5E12: Drought-like conditions and SLF spottings
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hi everybody, welcome back. You are listening to Between the Vines. I am Jennifer Phillips-Russo,
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the Cornell Vitaculture Extension Specialist from the Lake Geary Regional Great Program.
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And I'm here with my co-host, Andrew Woot who is our Penn State University Business Management
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Specialist. I am Drew Haru.
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How are you?
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Doing well. How are you doing, Jen?
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Well, thanks. It's a little chaotic in our region.
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It's our best time today is October 6th, 2025. So we are definitely in the thick of it,
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aren't we?
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Yeah, it's never a dull year. I think I think an ad your culture, that's what you learn.
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That is great.
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It's something different every year. So we are definitely seeing some different things this year.
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Yeah, so I guess the one of the main things, we have two big things to sort of talk about today.
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One of them is the lack of water.
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If you were or are a member of the LERGP program, then you receive our crop updates.
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We do them weekly throughout the growing season.
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And we do them every other week during harvest knowing that our growers are incredibly busy and probably don't have the time to stop and read them.
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And then we continue every other week through the dormant season.
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You can become a member. You can look go to LERGP.cce.cornell.edu and sign up if you're interested.
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And I think you can also get there just by going to LERGP.com.
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And the reason I mentioned that is that if you are a member, you get access to the most recent ones that we have done within the last six months.
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So really what pertains to this year, because in our last crop update, I put in a couple tables that I hope sort of puts things into perspective for our growers here in regards to the amount of rainfall that we have received.
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So we have this incredible historical data set going all the way back to 1926 of the precipitation from our used to be the Ferdonia lab for Cornell University.
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And now we are here in our new lab in Portland, New York. And we've continued that on.
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And I was interested to see because I know it's dry and we've been tracking it on new.
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So I was thinking about the amount of rainfall and the amount of rainfall and the amount of rainfall.
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Keep in mind that there are also microclimate, so when I'm speaking I am speaking about where we are collecting our data.
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So it really behooves you to start collecting your own data. So you can see trends at your own place because there are microclimates in our region.
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And like, we all know the rain may hit one area,
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but all surrounding that area can still be dry.
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So I just encourage you to really take some of your own data.
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And there's a lot of tools that we have in place
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that we can help you with that if you're interested
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reach out to us.
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But I was looking at that historical data set,
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sort of went down a rabbit hole
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because I wanted to see like through the years
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where it was, but I focused on the last 10 years.
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And then I also focused on just the months
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that we have berries on the vine.
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So that would be, we get fruit set in June.
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So I looked in June, July, August and September
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because at that time, we were not through
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the month of September yet.
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And it was shocking to me to see the water deficit
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from just over the last decade.
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And keep in mind, I'll tell you the number in just one second,
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but I compared it to the year that had the lowest amount
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of rainfall out of the last 10 years.
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So not even the average amount of rainfall
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that we would get in those 10 years,
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but the lowest amount of rainfall.
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And we were very close to, I think it was 5.59 inches below
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that lowest year of rainfall over the last 10 years.
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So I know, yeah, right?
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I was like, when I saw it in front of me at numbers,
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I was like, wow, that is down a lot of water.
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I didn't anticipate it being that much of a deficit.
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Thankfully, there's some in the forecast,
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heard it on the news this morning.
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And I would love to be a meteorologist, right?
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You only have to be right.
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Apple the time.
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No one can control the weather.
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Unfortunately, otherwise, we would all be
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in a really great place right now.
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But not having that water during cell expansion
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has really affected the size of our berries.
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And we've heard grower reports.
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We've had a lot of growers calling in to say
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that they're coming in lighter than they anticipated
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when after their crop estimation.
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And looking at those numbers, I'm like,
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well, there's just no water there.
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So it makes sense to me.
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Have you heard the same thing?
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Yeah, there's been grower that I've spoken with
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that have seen a decrease, a ton, two tons per acre,
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depending on their vineyard.
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But it also speeds up harvest a little bit.
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Correct.
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I mean, having ripening happened a little bit quicker
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during the sugars higher quicker
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because of that lack of water.
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Well, we don't have the solution factor, right?
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So when the rains are there, and there's a lot of water,
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the berries swell up and it dilutes the soluble sugars in there.
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Or bricks, as we call it.
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So yes.
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And if you've been watching in our crop updates,
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Dr. Terry Bates and his research team
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collect the Concord Berry Curve every week as well.
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And we were tracking above the historical average.
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It's a 40 or I think he is a 24 historical average
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that he reports on those 24 years, sorry.
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And we were above that.
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I'm trying to recall without looking at it
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and maybe just slightly below 2024,
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when it was crop up, crop estimation time.
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So they were definitely tracking there
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and then the water just stopped.
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And that line almost flattened out during stage two
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where the leg phase, and that's when seed development happens.
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And then stage three is when we hit
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variation and cell expansion happens
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and you had kind of any water to get those cells to expand.
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And there hasn't been any.
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So not to make light of the situation,
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I truly wish I could control the weather for our growers.
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But I do know that we've had a couple growers call
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and ask about irrigation in future years.
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And I know you had a conversation with Terry about that.
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Do you want to speak to that a little bit?
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Yeah, it's, it's, you know,
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takes a year like this really for us to have
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have that conversation because most years,
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we don't have water as a huge limiting factor.
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You know, like you said in our conversations with Terry,
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I think he would say that it would be great
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if you wanted to control every input
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into your, into your vineyard,
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you'd be able to be pretty accurate
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with growing in a zath yield or getting exactly,
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you know, that number that you're trying to hit,
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year in and year out,
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if you could control every input,
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any radiation is one of those things
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that is up to mother nature and is one
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of the bigger impacting tools.
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So, you know, in a dry year,
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if you did have irrigation,
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yeah, instead of losing those one or two tons per acre,
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this time of year, you could add it on
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or if your crop is light,
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you could add some water to bring that tonnage up.
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You know, if you had the sugars to do so.
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So, I think there's definitely,
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there's definitely it would be an advantage to irrigation.
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Now, the disadvantage would be how much does that cost?
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We're farming thousands and thousands of acres here
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in the Northeast and the Lake Erie region.
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And it's just, I haven't sat down with it
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some of the numbers.
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I actually printed off this report from 1999
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that our team did in the past on economics
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of drip irrigation for juice grapes.
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1999.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So, I've been going through that.
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But in talking to Terry and talking with other folks,
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it's just, it's a lot of water.
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Not everybody in our region has access to a lot of water.
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People that are on the sandy areas or the areas
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where there's not a ton of flow rate.
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You know, one, you would have to have wells
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or some sort of above ground water source
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and then two, pumping all that water out.
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And then just to sheer cost of covering hundreds of acres
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with drip irrigation that maybe you would use
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every couple of years.
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In most cases, in my understanding is it doesn't
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make sense for juice grapes because the margins are already
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so tight adding that additional overhead costs
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is not going to be beneficial in the long run.
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Now, if weather patterns change
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and we are suddenly in a dry area,
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then maybe that goes makes sense.
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You see it a lot in California or in windrapes
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where they have higher margins or less water
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where it does make more sense to irrigate.
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But like Jen was saying,
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if you look at the averages over the last century, I guess,
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where we're generally not held up by water.
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So it's interesting.
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It takes these years, like I said,
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for us that it really take a look at irrigation,
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people start asking these questions.
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I've also had quite a few conversations
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about crop insurance when it comes to drought as well.
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And you know, a lot of these questions
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that don't get asked until we have years like this.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, I guess if you want more information
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on possibly irrigating, reach out to Andrew,
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you can help you find where that is.
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Andrew, one quick thing,
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I'm just might be putting you on the spot
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if it is, I do apologize.
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Our government, our federal government
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is in a shutdown right now.
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Is that going to affect any of the payments
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on some of the grants that our growers are expecting?
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So there is currently,
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there's currently the one payment that we are,
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that a lot of growers have already received.
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It's the specialty crop payment.
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Let me pull up the name for it right here.
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So I have the official name of it.
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But most of our growers who saw a loss
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because of last year's frost,
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and got an insurance payment should have already received
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the first payment through there.
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There's a possibility that there will be
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a second payment through that.
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That could get pushed back now
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that we are in a government shutdown.
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And then it's the supplemental disaster relief program.
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I just brought it up here.
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The second stage of that is for producers
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with uncovered losses.
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So those votes who didn't have crop insurance
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that got hit,
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quality losses and let's see, shallow losses.
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So a shallow losses that you had insurance,
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but you didn't have enough to trigger a payment
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from your crop insurance.
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So maybe you got a light freeze
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and you still had a crop,
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but it wasn't enough of a loss
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to trigger that crop insurance payment.
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So that's stage two and that's supposed to begin
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some point this month.
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I have to believe that the government shutdown
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will push that back rolling that out
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because the FSA offices are,
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well, they're not being closed.
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They're still running,
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but they are some of their programs
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are put on hold and they're only keeping
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the minimal number of staff to keep things running.
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I could have felt anyone that utilizes FSA for loans.
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I know a lot of their loan departments
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are not administering new loans,
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but for a good chunk of our growers
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who enrolled in that first stage,
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they have already submitted,
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they've already received their funding.
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There was a chance that they were going to get
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a second payment, I believe, on that as well.
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But yeah, that definitely could affect,
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the shutdown definitely could affect
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some of these stage two and secondary payments
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that should be coming out of the supplemental disaster
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relief program.
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Okay, I guess we'll just keep our finger on the pulse,
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right? Only time will tell.
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So yeah, yeah.
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As far as other programs that are waiting on,
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I did also want to touch on the resilient food system
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equipment only grant.
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That one is the one that New York State is giving out.
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They're one of the last states to do it.
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We already saw some growers in Pennsylvania
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in Northeast received this grant.
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New York is kind of slow to getting this one rolled out
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and it is already closed.
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Grovers have submitted.
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I have a few growers that I worked with
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on getting it submitted in our region
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and we are just waiting for that to be announced.
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That is also announced in October.
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I just got confirmation of that again,
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or re-confirmation of that last week
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from the team that's administering this grant
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that's said October.
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That's all they're giving us.
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So I'm just assuming that's end of October,
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but it's come out any day now.
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We're waiting to hear back.
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It's a very limited grant.
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They're not giving out a ton of projects.
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It's only a million dollars statewide
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with projects ranging from 30,000 to 100,000.
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So 10 to 30 grants statewide.
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But I think our growers who submitted grants
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have a strong case and I'm hoping that we can get some
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funding here.
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Most of these will be for bulk equipment purchase.
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That would be fantastic.
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I hope that works out and everything moves forward smoothly.
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Yeah.
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Is anything smooth for us in this region
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in the last couple of years?
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It's okay.
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We're still all here, right?
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It's okay.
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Well, that leads me to our next thing
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that we need to discuss and share.
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Many of you may have heard already.
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And that is that we did find an adult spotted lantern fly
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in Shatokwa County in Western New York,
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like the heart of our Concord Great Belt region.
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A life.
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A life.
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It is no longer alive thanks to the quick work
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and the education of our growers
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because this was at a growers location.
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It was outside their shop and they text me over the weekend.
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And I get a lot of pictures from growers
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where they're on vacation and they've gone
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someplace that have that cell left
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and they're like, oh my gosh, here it is.
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So when this grower sent it to me, I was like,
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where are you?
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And he was he was plied with at my shop
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and I was like, no.
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So I have to tell you, I am extremely proud.
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Number one, that that grower was educated enough
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to know what it was to capture it and to kill it
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and to save it for me.
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He may also took a photo of it.
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I immediately sent it to my contacts
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who is Mike Ferman Telly,
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who is the lead for spotted lantern fly
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with New York State Ag and Markets.
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I emailed him, I emailed him the picture,
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I emailed him the address and I told him
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all of the information that I knew on that
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and that I also reported it to reportslf.com
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which goes directly to the Ag and Markets reporting site,
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which is a whole bunch of letters.
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It's just easier to have reportslf.com for New York State
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so that it can make it easier.
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You don't have to think too much harder
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about remembering all of the letters and dashes
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that come after it.
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So with that said, that was, I can't remember
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if it was a Friday afternoon or a Saturday,
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I think it was on a Saturday when the grower set me that
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and by 7.40 in the morning on Monday
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when work resumed, Mike Ferman Telly
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from Ag and Markets called me and said,
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I received it, we've moved it to the head of the line.
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Can you meet us at that location today?
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So we sent out two inspectors from Ag and Markets
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that morning and our team, the Lake Erie Regional
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Gray Program and New York State Ag and Markets
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worked together to do a canvas search around this property.
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We are pleased to say that we did not find
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another adult at that time
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and we still haven't found another live adult since.
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But I just want to sort of reassure our growers
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in this region that we take this very seriously
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as does the state of New York, Ag and Markets.
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We work together seamlessly, we built this relationship
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so that we have this,
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what's the word I'm looking for, accelerated reporting,
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like we know what we're looking for
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and that it's so detrimental to our industry
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and that we have to really be vigilant,
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not only in our scouting and I reporting,
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but ready to jump into action when we do,
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when it does get here.
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And they have allowed us to be like special reporters to them.
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So we have that personal relationship
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with Ag and Markets that we have developed over the years.
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It was refreshing that our growers even commented on that.
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He said, I am impressed with how fast things happened
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and how serious it's been taken.
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I want to let you know that it's even gone one step further.
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Ag and Markets has devoted to grid searching.
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So they are sending inspectors out to our region
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and doing a grid search.
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And I've heard, but I'm not,
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I've not seen it in writing that there is
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six different grid searches happening
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and I believe that they might be us.
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I don't even want to speculate on how wide
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those grid searches are because I don't want ag and Markets
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to say like, no, that's not it.
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But we are, we're going to, our team is going to team up
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with one Ag and Markets inspector,
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each person from our team
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and they're going to work at different grid searches together.
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So just want to reassure everybody,
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we are taking this seriously.
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We are out there working for you,
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but I also need you, our growers in the region
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to be on the lookout as well.
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So we can give information about what it looks like.
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It's on our website.
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Most of our growers, I think, have been highly educated
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on it in the last 10 years.
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But even if you can convince the general population,
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your grandchildren, your nieces or nephews,
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your brothers or sisters to go onto our website
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or even onto Ag and Markets website,
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just Google spotted lantern fly
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and see what it looks like so that you can be
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well versed and knowledgeable because it needs to be reported
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because it is an agricultural pest.
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Obviously really bad for grapes.
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And yeah, it's...
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This time of year, we can say,
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right, like they're mobile, they're adults,
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they're flying around, they're moving around,
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they're climbing, they're feeding.
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Look for them on spot lantern fly.
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Or on, sorry, on Tria Heaven.
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Look for the spot lantern fly on Tria Heaven on a landless
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altissima.
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Also, you know, around railroad tracks,
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we think a lot of them come in on the railroad tracks.
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So if you have property bordering,
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the railroad that has Tria Heaven,
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especially those are some hot spots.
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But now we're not advised me to go on the tracks.
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Yeah, near the tracks.
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Yeah, near the tracks.
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Definitely.
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Trust's passing.
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They're about an inch and a half long.
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They are...
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They're very actually hard to see,
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which is nature's way of letting them be such great competitors,
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right, because they're camouflage.
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They're really hard to see when they're like on a tree.
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And until you can focus your eyes
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and know what you're looking for,
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and then you see them everywhere.
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But I also want to reassure you.
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I know many of our growers,
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especially if you attended our conference,
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our winter conference in March last year,
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I presented on the mechanization pilot study that we did,
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knowing that, not knowing,
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hypothesizing that we would get these bugs
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in our harvested grapes.
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So we had gone down to Southeast PA
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and worked with a grower down there
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who has a harvester,
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because there aren't that many.
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And we're very, very thankful for that grower
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who actually didn't spray as often as he should
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so that there would be some bugs on the vine
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that we could have some numbers to work with.
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Unfortunately, 60% on average of all the bugs
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that were on the vine ended up in the bin.
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So we know that happens.
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We're really trying, and when I say we,
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it's the Royal Wii,
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we have a research team set up between Cornell
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and Penn State University.
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So Dr. Julie Irbens Lab
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and her research team, Bryan Walsh,
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the LERG team, and then just recently,
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we also brought in Kyle Bekelja,
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who is the new New York State great by PM coordinator.
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And he went down with us just this past week
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and is continuing on some spree trials
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that we're doing down in Pennsylvania
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with growers that have SLF,
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that we are trying certain sprays on
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and then counting the bugs at our regular intervals
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to see when that reentry is of the bugs
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after the REI and then after the PHI.
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So at least trying to get some sort of mitigation strategies,
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not figured out but investigated
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before we actually get that bug in our region.
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And unfortunately having that adult here,
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we also had a community member report
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two adults at their place
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and we did a search around there and didn't find more.
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But the fact that we're hearing of more adult reports
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could be an indicator that it might be here already,
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just not in the numbers that would show up in vineyards
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yet unfortunately.
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But we're trying to stay ahead of that
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and trying to figure out some mitigation strategies
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to help us for when it does get here.
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Some really good news is that Dr. Julie Urban
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is the lead PI or primary investigator
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on a federal SDIRI grant.
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So that is a specialty crop research initiative
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that we put in for looking at this particular
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how to keep out of mechanized vineyards,
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how to keep the bug out.
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So we're trying to find mitigation strategies.
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As we put it in and it just finally got submitted.
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So it's in there now.
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It's up to the federal government to decide
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if they're willing to award us that money
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so we can do this work.
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But we're trying to figure something out
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on a shoe string anyway.
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It's just to get the money
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to grow some sort of information.
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Yeah.
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Long days, long days.
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Other than that, not what's going on right now.
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Yeah.
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The air still smells amazing.
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Still smells like grapes, especially right after
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you pass a vineyard that's just been harvested.
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Smells so good here.
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It's one of my favorite times of year.
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And the weather, I know we haven't had rain,
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but the weather for harvest has been fantastic.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's been beautiful and yeah, every morning
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I'm driving in, I'm seeing people out harvesting.
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And our region is resilient, right?
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Like we've been through some tough times before
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and out of that, I don't want to say it's a tragedy.
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We're not in a tragedy right now.
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We've been hit a couple hard times with some things
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but out of that comes innovation.
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So I mean, look at the harvester
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out of the labor things with Roy Orton and the patent
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on one of the first harvesters.
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Now they're everywhere.
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And we are, I don't want to say allowed,
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but afforded the opportunity to continue
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this beautiful industry because of those innovations
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that came out of sheer grit.
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So we will rise or continue trying to rally the troops.
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I don't know.
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Yeah.
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We will persist.
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That's what we will persist.
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At least we'll do the best we can to get us there.
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So if you have any questions, comments, concerns,
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or anything that you have always been interested in
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and wanting to learn more about,
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please feel free to reach out to Andrew or I.
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We're doing these around every other week
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through what it's been working out to
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but because of all the research and travel
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that we've had to do for a lot of things
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it's been a little bit hit or miss.
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I apologize for that.
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Please note that we are working truly
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to try to figure some things out for you.
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So if it's hard to get a hold of us, that's why.
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And please be patient.
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Well, we look forward to your comments or emails
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and what you're willing to see.
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And we will be back in a couple of weeks.
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Please stay safe out there and happy harvest
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for the rest of the season.
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Awesome.
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Thanks everybody.
Topics Covered
Between the Vines podcast
Cornell Viticulture Extension
Lake Erie Regional Grape Program
crop updates
drought impact on vineyards
historical rainfall data
irrigation in vineyards
grape yield reduction
crop insurance for growers
weather patterns in agriculture
vineyard management strategies
water deficit effects
microclimates in agriculture
grape berry size
harvest timing and quality