Culture
Best of: Marly Bird
In this episode of the Craftish Podcast, host Vicki Howell revisits her engaging conversation with Marly Bird, a prominent designer and spokesperson in the yarn industry. They discuss Marly's jou...
Best of: Marly Bird
Culture •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hey there, it's Vicki Howell and this is the Craftish Podcast.
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Do you love knitting and crochet?
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Or are you obsessed with gorgeous yarn?
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Maybe you also can't get enough of knitted tools and novelty items.
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Well then, yarn yay, my friends, is the subscription box for you.
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For just 35 bucks each month you'll receive little bits of yarny happiness lovingly curated
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by me, Vicki Howell.
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Included in each aqua-colored box are bite-sized portions of artisanal hand-died or
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indimain-stained yarns.
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Two exclusive patterns for the same type of project designed with the busy stature in mind,
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so one is knit and one is crochet.
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And at least two specialty items that will make your knitting heart swoon as well as
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access to our private Facebook group which includes video tutorials, exclusive interviews,
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and a wonderful stitch-along community.
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So if that sounds good to you or if you know somebody, maybe mom for Mother's Day, it
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might sound excellent too, then just head on over to yarnyay.com to check it out.
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Please, and thank you.
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All right, this week we're revisiting one of this podcast's most popular episodes,
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my conversation with designer, instructor, and red heart yarn, National Spokesperson, Merle Bird.
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Merle and I go way back, so there's no holds barred on our chat about her journey from finance
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world to fiber phenom, how she balances her many jobs, and what her personal philosophy for
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living the professional dream is. Let's hear it now.
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Merle Bird, thank you so much for being on Craftish. I wanted to read a quote from an interview
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that you did for the Mugley blog in 2014 that I really think encapsulates the genesis of what you've
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become professionally today. And at you said, I don't think there are any limitations to what you
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can accomplish with a little faith. And I wanted to start with what you did before you worked
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in the yarn industry. Can we go back and start at your life before then? What were you doing
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professionally? Totally. I was actually an insurance and investments salesperson at Northwest
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Dream Mutual Financial Network. So I was doing nothing in the crafting industry. I was totally
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immersed in numbers and insurance. But there was this part of me that just knew that was at the
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right place for me, not because it was bad or anything, but I just knew I was supposed to be in the
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yarn industry. And I honestly didn't know how or where I just knew this is where I was supposed to be.
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Were you a parent at that point? Yes, I was a parent to two kids by the time I left the insurance
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company. And then I was pregnant with my third. So I was in the mix of it.
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Right. And so how so your actual college degree is in speech communication? I'm trying to see how
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all these looped together. How did you end up in finance? That's a very good question. When the
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recruiters came to my university and recruited me, they said that they like to recruit speech
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communication people and people who had general person, personable skills because it's more often
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that people will purchase insurance and invests us for somebody that they can relate to. And you know,
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it's not just so much a numbers geeky kind of, you know, just spitting out figures to them. But
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somebody they can understand and thinks that, you know, really understands them. And so that's where
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North-Western Mutual was decided, had decided that speech communication majors were a great fit for
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them, which is ironic because I actually failed micro economics. So here I am. So many people
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insurance and investments and I absolutely failed economics at college. So I was just like,
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this is hilarious. But it worked. Like I excelled and I did really well there. And I really did
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enjoy it. And I still have my insurance with them. But it just wasn't where I was supposed to be.
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Did you learn anything from that experience working in finance that later was kind of a
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professional gift to you running your own business, even though it wasn't a totally different
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industry, especially given since you didn't go to school for business per se or finance per se?
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Yeah, I think the diversity overall. So financially, you need to be diverse when you're investing
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correct. And so when I started my own business and as a networker and crochet designer and
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everything else that I do, I think of them as pieces of my income pie. And so I keep my income
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really diverse in that I don't rely just on one aspect to be financially profitable for me. I
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have several different areas that I make money from. And so I think that was the biggest thing that I
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took from the insurance and investment side and applied to my own business.
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Well, and the extra applicable aspect of that is that in our industry and the
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least at the time of this interview and the foreseeable future, there really isn't a way to make
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a solid living unless you go work for a corporation, but as an independent inner industry without
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diversification. Absolutely. And that's something I go in depth with when I teach classes about
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hobby to profession. You get a lot of bright eye to bushy-tell individuals who want to come in and
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be our colleague, Vicki. And I welcome them all heartedly, but I get it to them straight and say,
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okay, let's break down how much you would get if you made a sweater. And then how much it would take
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for you financially to have that sweater made or for you to make it. And how many sweaters do you
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have to do in a year's time in order to make a salary that you need to live off of? And people
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quickly realize that it's just impossible. It's impossible. It's impossible. And so then they're
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like, well, how do people do it? And that's when I break into the, you know, you've got to find
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other avenues to make money. And so we talk about all the different ways to make money.
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Yeah. And I talk about, you know, I teach a course called monetize your craft. And
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I go straight at it with them too. It's being very open about the fact that it's hard in our
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industry to make a living. And so if you want it, you have to really want it. Yeah. Or not
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want it at that level. And that's okay too. Maybe you just want to, you know, bring in a little
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sort of extra income for your family. Maybe you don't want to go full-fledged career. But you need to
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know the different sort of like the different ends of the spectrum and what it truly involves. And
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if you are open and willing and still interested at that point, you know, like we open with your
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quote, there really are no limitations. No. No. I mean, there are so many, there are so many people in
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this industry you've come from other industries, you know. And as you said, people are involved in
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the yarn industry. I mean, the beating industry, all the industries that are crafting oriented.
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And it all depends on the level that you want to put into it. And there are no limits. Here I am,
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former insurance and investments person who is now the national spokesperson for Red Heart Yarns.
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Who would have seen that coming? I think if you work for it and you have faith and you just,
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you put your best foot forward, you just, there's nothing limiting you except your own ability to get
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things done. Yeah, I like to always say that we are the architects of our own glass ceilings. I mean,
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oh, that's great. We truly are. Let's talk about that arc of, you know,
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insurance sales person to spokesperson. Take us back to how you went from, you know,
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learning from your grandmother, how to crochet and learning how to front from a friend, how to knit,
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you know, a decade and a half ago to when you got your first gig. Sure. Like,
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I didn't want anything. Anything, anything that would, that actually you could say, I am a professional,
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whatever it was, designer, editor, professional, whatever you wanted. However, however,
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that, however you define that first step towards your overall career path in this industry.
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Okay. So, um, after leaving the insurance company, I started a blog, from the blog, I started a
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podcast, which is, um, still, it's still going strong. It was the first crochet podcast on iTunes.
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And, um, it's, as far as I know, the only podcast that really talks mainly about knitting and crochet,
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like it's the two. Um, from the podcast, I connected with different publishers and what was really
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great is I connected with vogue knitting and, uh, inner weave specifically and both of them, uh,
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were interested in my design. So I sent stuff to them. And within the same week of having a
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crochet design accepted from inner weave crochet, I had a design accepted from, uh, I think,
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simple magazine. And so in the same week, I became a, you know, a published designer. And I was
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ecstatic, um, and nervous because it was, it's on, right? It's like, okay, here's your dream,
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and now you're living it. And you, um, for me, I didn't, I didn't want to flood up, you know,
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I didn't want to make some sort of rookie mistake. And so I, I just remember,
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methodically just going through each step, making each thing perfect,
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making the pattern as perfect as I could just to make sure that they would hire me again.
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Um, but that's really where it started because from there, it, everything just took off. It literally
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just took off. I attended the National Legal Arts Association. I met up with Carl and I lean
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of Beeshoe Basin Ranch. Um, from there, I continued to design from magazines. And then I became the
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Creative Director for Beeshoe Basin Ranch. And I mean, just one thing after another has just really
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just just happened. And what are you using as your resume at that point? I mean, if you would only
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design two things professionally, how do you become a creative director for a yarn company?
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Right. Um, why I've done more by that point. Um, so I had, by the time I became a creative director,
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I had done some other designs. And I think it's just, with Carl and I lean, they are local to me.
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And they were new to the industry as a whole on their own. And as they were getting patterns for
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me and collecting patterns with the people, I was helping them format the patterns and I was helping
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them organize the photoshoots. And I was doing all the different things that a creative director would
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do. And so it came to them. They were just like, one day, like, look, we want to pay you for what
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you're doing because you're doing it anyways. And so that's how that all kind of fell into place.
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I really don't know. I'm absolutely fearless, Vicki. I mean, there's, there's nothing out there
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that I can't do. If I don't know how to do it, I'm going to figure out how to do it.
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That's really the only attitude to have in a creative industry.
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Especially if you're, you know, if it's important to you to be both a creative type and an entrepreneur,
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like those two, there's got to be a little bit of, um, of ability to be vulnerable
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because it's that vulnerability that puts you out there. And when you're out there,
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the opportunities can find you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Where did you, where did you learn how to design?
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I feel like you went from, in your story, you went from, you know, I knew I wanted to be in the
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industry too. I, you know, started a podcast and started designing. Yeah. I, um,
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because there weren't, there weren't the classes that they were, you know,
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crafty and creative bug and still shared. None of those things existed right when you
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stood out. I purchased books and I, um, taught myself through books like I read instructional
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books like novels. I read patterns like novels. Um, if there was something I didn't know how to do,
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I would read through the instructions of a pattern and figure out how the designer did it and try
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and work through the math of it. And then what really helped me was early on in my career,
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I connected with a tech editor who is a wonderful designer on her own and she really helps me a lot
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understanding the ins and outs of stuff that I didn't understand. Um, and so with her help and
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the help of books, I've just taught myself along the way how to do what I do. Yeah. Yeah.
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I mean, because there was no crafty, there wasn't. Now I did do the same thing. I had to do the same
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thing. I pitched my first book and I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to learn how to write a book
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now and also design and also design. Yeah. My first sweater, I had never even knit a sweater before
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and that was my first sweater design was a was a was my very first sweater I ever even knit.
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Yeah. You know, um, I think I have, I think I think for me too. Yeah. Right. Because you know
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why? Because knitting a sweater is a big commitment. So if I'm going to go in, do it, I'm going to
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go into it and also be able to publish something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. That's funny. So
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I remember years ago, gosh, this was so many years ago, I don't even know what show it would have
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been at it was probably, it was either a stitches or a vogue knitting live. I was walking the aisles
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with my friend Karen Bomer who had been a guest on a show I used to host called Niddy Gritty.
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And this was when you were relatively new to the industry, ish. You know, I think the podcast
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is start, I can't even remember this must have been close to a decade ago. And you stopped us
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and you wanted to talk to Karen. And I wanted to, do you remember that? I wanted to do it.
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Which can you share that with our listeners? What? What do you want to tell her? Yeah. Early on,
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Niddy Gritty, Niddy Gritty was a big part of my everyday life. I was still working at North
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Western Mutual, but I had learned to knit and I absolutely fell in love with it. And so I was
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watching the TV show. And as you said, my good friend taught me how to knit and purl. And I
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am a continental nitcher and purrler. But my pearls never were working outright. I could not figure out
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what I was doing incorrectly. And because Eugene wasn't that big, there was no crafty, there's no
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creative, but there's Niddy Gritty. And actually, it was just Niddy Gritty at the time. There's
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even Niddy Gritty. It was just Niddy Gritty. And I was watching the show and Karen Bomer was on
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the show teaching how to knit socks. And she's a continental knitter and purrler. And I watched that show
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over and over and over just to watch her how to purl. And so I literally learned how to purl from
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Niddy Gritty, from Karen specifically. She's also a speed knitter. I mean, she's been in competition.
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She's incredible. So that's really funny that she was able to like slow it down for you to learn.
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Side note, she stopped knitting. That is crazy. She's, she's sat knitting aside for like the past
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like several years. She was like, she's, she's full opera all the time now. No time for
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the help. I know. I know. I know. We'll get her back. I know. It was crazy. Do you remember
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stopping you? It was at a Vogue Niddy in live. And I, because I mean, I had seen you. So I was a
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little star-struck, but it was that it was seeing Karen. Because she was such an important figure
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in my entire knitting career in the sense of she taught me how to purl. You know what I mean?
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I don't know. It was just, it was a big deal. I enjoyed that.
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What have you learned over the past 10 years of, of running a podcast? What's been the biggest,
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what have you learned from how you talked to your guests? And also just how technology has changed
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since you started? Oh goodness. Well, at the beginning, I, I used to pre-record my podcast and then
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I would edit out the ums and the uhs and I would add music and I just put tons of work into it.
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And it was so labor intensive. As I say, um, it was so labor intensive and I didn't,
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I didn't think that it was sustainable all by myself. And at the beginning, I didn't really know
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what to talk about. It was just me. I'd have some different girlfriends come over and just
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chit chat about knitting crochet. I'd review books and stuff and magazines. But when I decided to
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transition from an edited podcast to a live show, I was able to have guests come on the show live.
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And it completely transitioned what my podcast became because it was much more of an interview
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format. And the way I approached it was I'm inviting my fellow um, you know, colleagues on the show,
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but more than anything, I'm, I'm inviting people that I'm complete fans of. And I just want to learn
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about them, learn about how they got to the industry. And I want to help promote them and lift them up.
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Because overall, the more successful we are in the industry, it helps our industry as a whole, right?
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So I wasn't very, I'm not, I'm still not, I'm not selfish about giving accolades and,
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and trying to help promote people because I want people to be successful. So over the last 10 years,
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my podcast has transitioned from an fully edited show to an interview-based live broadcast.
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And over the last almost seven months, I guess I've been doing the behind the scenes of the show
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on Facebook Live to try to bring in the video aspect of it. Because for a long time, I didn't want
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to have a podcast that was also a video podcast because I mean, let's be honest, it takes a
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while to get ready in the morning. And if you have a show twice a week, I don't want to get ready
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twice, twice a week to look good on that camera. Yeah. And it sounds, it sounds ridiculous for
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everybody. That's, that struggle is real. That struggle is real. And so it was kicking and screaming
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that I decided to do the behind the scenes stuff. But I was like, I've got to do it because our,
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first off, the art industry is really, it works really well with video, you know, because you can
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show people what you're talking about this that and the other. But also, overall, social media is
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so visual anymore. There are the great podcasts that people listen to in the car as they go to work
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or they commute on the subway or whatever. But there's also so many that really like to watch what
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it is that they're listening to. So I figured if I did both, that would be good. So, yeah, those
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are the biggest changes. Was the interview base, the live show, and now doing the behind the scenes
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video live of the show. Like it's just been, it's been crazy. It's been amazing. Well, with,
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with me personally, for Facebook live, how liberating it is to be able to produce, I've had a
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weekly series for about a year and a half now in Facebook live. And it's not something that I would
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have been able to sustain if it had to be fully produced. Well, yeah, actually, it's the post
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production. Not, I still produce them. I still preach, it's the post production. Yeah, it's just,
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it's not. And so, and for me, and I think that you're the same way, I'm kind of more comfortable
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in proving anyway. Yeah. So it's a, it's a good match. Yes. And it's fun to be able to
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sort of truly integrate your audience into your real time. Yeah, work life. Yeah, absolutely,
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absolutely. I mean, the fact that I mean, I did two shows a week. How easy is that? That's
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easy. Do you know why it switched it to, it switched to two shows a week, probably like two or three
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years ago. It's because so many people wanted to come on the podcast that I couldn't, like I was so
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far booked out. I'm like, this is just ridiculous. And you know, again, you want to help promote
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people when the book comes out in like months later. So I'm like, okay, I'll just start doing a
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couple shows a week for this time frame. And then I'll go back to one show a week. Well, it just,
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I never went back. It just kept going. It's, it's, it's not, it is not. I feel good. Well, now we're
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also we're at a place where people are insatiable with content. Like they're, they're used to having,
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always having something new. So, so it's not like it used to be where it's like you could put
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something out once a month. And it was like a month, like people expect their feed to be refilled.
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Like a cup all of the time. So it's, you know, finding a balance between what is realistic and
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what you can do well. Right. Putting out a crappy piece of content five times a week versus
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solid pieces of content two times a week. I mean, the clear winner is the latter. Absolutely.
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But it's finding that balance that is really, I mean, we're kind of, I say this all the time,
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all of us, all of, you know, all of us in all of the industries that embrace technology. I really
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pioneering the way that we broadcast in market right now. And so we all sort of just roll the
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dice. And but what's cool about that is that the audience is participatory in it. We've never had
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participatory marketing in this respect before. Right. Where we, where we really can see, oh goodness
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that was a crash and burn. But and not have to like rely on data and you know, like you can,
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you can see it. I know, which is a blessing that occurs because before I mean, it was what kind
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of the blind, the ignorance of, oh, it looks like everything's doing great. That all of a sudden,
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it's like it's in your face. Oh, this is not doing well. You know, and everybody can see that.
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You know, if all of a sudden, not that this has happened to me, thank God, but like all of a sudden,
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people unsubscribe in droves. You're just like, what did I do? You know, or all of a sudden,
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everybody's subscribing because you've done something new. And it's like, oh, well, I should do that
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again. So it's a blessing and a curse. If you're like me in the sense that, I mean, I think nobody
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likes to fail, but like I have a, I have a big fear of failure. And the fact that it's on such a
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public stage, oh, that's frightening. Like I'm constantly having to reassure myself. I can do this.
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I can do this. I can do this and just try and continue to be fearless on that aspect of it all.
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Because at this level of where where I am in my career, if, if I fail at this level,
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it's going to be epic and it's visible. And that's scary as hell. That is so scary.
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It's that vulnerability that we were all going to be. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yes.
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But I always say that if I'm going to go down, I'm going to go down in a ball.
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Yeah. That's like I want it to be big. You know, you told me that. You told me that, um, like
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you're two years ago when I was talking about Red Heart, you told me that and I have seriously
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that has stuck in my head ever since then. So I have the little bicky voice. If you're going to go
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down, go. But the thing is I haven't gone, you know, I haven't, I haven't gone down in flames.
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I just, I just, I just keep going. I just keep going because I mean, I've told you this.
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You are such a huge inspiration to me and I totally look up to you. And you are just,
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you're like the energizer, bunny girl. You just keep going and going and going and, and, and I don't
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want to say reinventing. That's not it. You just is like, I, nothing's going to hold me down.
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I'm going to, what's the next thing that I'm doing it? And it's just, I love that you do that.
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I love it so much. Thank you. It's true. I, uh, I have to have the same conversations that we
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all have to have about it. In fact, the most recent thing that I did, this, this Kickstarter for
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the NIT show, which I'm, yeah, I'm in the middle of pre-production for right now was the most,
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most vulnerable I've ever been professionally in my entire life because like you said, like if I
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crashed and burned, it was going to be a big crash and burn. Like I, I was calling it my swan song
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because it was big and I have, and this isn't about me and my next career. Of course, it's what I
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want to do, but I have this vision for what it can do for an industry that frankly is a, is not
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in the best place it's ever been right now. And, you know, there's constant conversations about,
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look, I've got the skills. I've got the tools. I'm the person to do this. You know, it's going to
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replace all the like, what if it doesn't, too? I'm so grateful to even have the opportunity to try
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to make it happen. And that shift in consciousness really sort of pushed me through sort of, you know,
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the grueling portions of that particular project. But I think it's important that, you know,
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that people that leaders in any creative industry will really, any industry at all talk about both
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your failures and your successes because if you think about it, how many huge, let's just talk about,
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you know, celebrities, movie stars right now, how many awful, like big time movie stars have had
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failures? I mean, Ben Affleck and Gigi, can we just, can we just, right? Right. And that was big
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and painful and awful, but it did not really affect his overall career. And that's something,
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like every time I worry about like, what if something bombs or what if I step back and I think,
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oh, wait, that's part of being a creative person is that you put, you try something and it may be
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a little off-kilter, it may not. And maybe that'll catch, and maybe it won't, but that's part of
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the process. Right. Yep. You said it all perfectly. At what point were you able to monetize your
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podcast? It seems like it was relatively early. No, it was like, I want to say it was like five years
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ago. What? Yeah, it wasn't. I didn't have a, I didn't have sponsors at the podcast for a long
spk_0
time. And the reason I didn't is because I didn't want a company telling me what I could and couldn't
spk_0
talk about or who I could, we couldn't have on the show. And it was after a meeting with Benjamin
spk_0
Levisset, the CEO of XRX Books and Knitter's Magazine, that he contacted me and said, I want to
spk_0
sponsor your podcast and I actually told him no. And he was like, what? And I said, I appreciate it,
spk_0
I'm flattered, but I don't want any sponsors because I want the show to be what it is. I want it to
spk_0
be real. I want to be able to say, I don't like your magazine or I love your magazine and not be,
spk_0
you know, in trouble for it. And he said, no, I want to give you money. Let me give you money. I want
spk_0
to sponsor your show. And I said, Benjamin, how's that going to work? If I have Trisha Malcolm on the
spk_0
podcast for Vogue Knitting and you're just like, well, you know, we do stitches and I don't want you
spk_0
to have Trisha on. He goes, no, no, that's not the case. I want you to have Trisha on. I just want
spk_0
to make sure that Knitter's magazine as ditches is mentioned when Trisha's on the show. Yeah.
spk_0
By the way, if everybody in our industry got the weight of that and yes, we would be in a different
spk_0
place right now. We are in this, we are in this just really unique industry where that's community
spk_0
base, which means that the whole rising tide thing works. Knitters don't get tired of knitting.
spk_0
They want all of it. They want all of the content. Right. So promoting each other. So I love that
spk_0
Benjamin Benjamin was that forward thinking. He's absolutely that way. And so I said, so what
spk_0
you're telling me is you want to give me money and you don't want to have any say on what I do.
spk_0
You just want me to have your money. So your name is mentioned. He goes absolutely. I said, okay.
spk_0
So I took his money and I guess there were other people that wanted that as well. And so that's
spk_0
when I started getting sponsors of the show. That's how that worked. It was about five years ago.
spk_0
And it was thanks to Benjamin. But I resisted because I wanted to have full, this autonomy,
spk_0
is that the right word? Like I wanted to have full decision making responsibility of the podcast.
spk_0
I just wanted to take them. So for all of the sponsors, did you have the same caveat? Yes.
spk_0
Yes. Yep. So that's why you'll see like I have Buffalo Wool Company. I have Red Heart. I have
spk_0
Newtters Magazine. I have Aaron Lane bags. I have Craftsy and Creative Buck at both of them.
spk_0
You know. And so it's it's good. They all understand what they're what they're signing up for.
spk_0
And to them, it's okay. They're supporting a podcast. They like they're supporting a designer.
spk_0
They like they're getting their name out there. Two listeners and all the shows are archived. So
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you know, people, whether they just decide to sponsor for just a year or for many years,
spk_0
their name is always mentioned. And when people go back and listen to old shows because they totally
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do their name, they're it's just that constant advertising money that they are spending. And
spk_0
it's good. It's a good way to spend money. So what point does Red Heart come into the picture?
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Yes. I haven't mentioned this very much during this podcast. But it's a lot of things that
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have happened to me are by the way, this is my podcast, not your podcast. Yeah. You're
spk_0
mentioned it very much during this podcast. I was like, I need to remind her which
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which job she has right now. That's what events. I'm losing money. I a lot of the different things
spk_0
that have happened to me. I mentioned you mentioned faith. And so I am a Christian and a lot of
spk_0
things that have happened to me are just unbelievable. Like you could write as a book on my story of
spk_0
my career. And it wouldn't people wouldn't buy it because it just doesn't seem real. And Red Heart
spk_0
falls into that same space for me. I was friends with Red Heart, a new Red Heart. I'd work with Red Heart,
spk_0
you know, as you do everybody in this industry. And when I decided to try and add a new piece of
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my income pie because I was really struggling with the ones I had because those who don't know
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typically when you do something for a magazine, you don't get paid until the issue is actually released
spk_0
and then it's 30 days after that. So at one point in time, I was flat broke, but I had $25,000
spk_0
out there waiting to get paid on. Okay. And I was like, this is a sign. Why is this happening to me?
spk_0
And so I was trying to figure out a way to add another piece of income pie. And all I kept seeing
spk_0
was the rise of YouTube and the rise of video and such. So long story short, I got connected with a
spk_0
company in Austin to help do production of Crochet videos. I remember seeing that. I saw that
spk_0
on the interwebs and I was like, why is Merle coming to Austin? Yeah. Yeah. So I was doing purely
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crochet videos because they already had another person doing knitting videos. And the agreement was
spk_0
because she's doing knitting, I was only allowed to do crochet. Was this for a production company or
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did you hire the production company to shoot stuff for your own channel? Actually, partnered. So
spk_0
what happened was everything was 50. They did all the production staff and absorb those cost.
spk_0
And then we had an agreement as far as like the level of how much was there percentage, how much
spk_0
was my percentage when the YouTube channel started making money. Does that make sense? And then if
spk_0
in time there were ever sponsors that came to be, we split the money 50-50. So they took a chance
spk_0
on me and I took a chance on them. So it was it was a very great way to venture into this.
spk_0
Wonderful company. It's it's called Tiny Courage. I mean, they're wonderful. So in the process of
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getting things ready to go to Austin to do filming, I went back and kind of relied on watching
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you on knitting daily and you on knitting greedy and seeing yarn and people sponsoring with yarn.
spk_0
So I contacted the various yarn companies to see if they would give me yarn to use on these videos.
spk_0
And I mean, I got to I didn't hold back. I lined brand yarn spreesions red heart all about.
spk_0
And Bobby from Red Heart called me. She actually called me. Not even an email. And she's like,
spk_0
hey Marley, this is Bobby Matelet, Red Heart. I said, hey, how are you? She says, I'm good.
spk_0
I have a yarn request here from you and this is a lot of yarn. Can I ask you what you're doing?
spk_0
So I explained to her what I was doing with the YouTube channel. She said, oh, that's that's
spk_0
fantastic. Would you ever be interested in doing that for, you know, other companies or people
spk_0
sponsoring? I said, sure. She's like, great. Well, I'm going to I'm going to mention this to my boss
spk_0
and such. So they do send me the yarn and behind the scenes, I've got to jump back just a little bit
spk_0
before I started the YouTube channel. Before I went to Austin, I was talking to another YouTuber,
spk_0
me Mikey, about going into this and he was very open and friendly and kind and transparent about
spk_0
a lot of different things. And he actually talked to me about trying to get connected with
spk_0
your inspirations to do knitting videos. Okay. And I was like, sure, if you think that's a good,
spk_0
you know, whatever, you know, you take the introductions is wherever you can find them.
spk_0
And so in this timeframe, Mikey is doing videos for Red Heart. Does that you with me so far?
spk_0
So I used to do videos for Red Heart. I am now asking Red Heart for yarn and they're saying,
spk_0
would you ever be interested in doing videos? Sure. So Red Heart comes back to me and they're like,
spk_0
we are looking for somebody to do knitting videos because they have Mikey for crochet and I'm like,
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awesome, but here's my problem. I can't do knitting videos with the production company I'm working
spk_0
with in Austin, right? Because I made that agreement. So I have to make a decision of, can I do these
spk_0
videos? If I do them, what do I have to do on my end to make that happen? So I decide, if I build a
spk_0
studio or you know, I'm here, I'm in Denver. So I'm local to craft sea and I've got people that
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work at craft sea that can help me. And so I decide if I build a studio, I get film all the knitting
spk_0
videos here and I could still go to Austin to film the crochet video. So I just have to divide it up.
spk_0
And so that's what I did. So Red Heart's talking me about doing knitting videos. I said great,
spk_0
I can do it. And in this timeframe, Mikey decides to leave Red Heart and goes to yarn sparrations.
spk_0
And so Red Heart says, hey, we have Marley already going to do the knitting videos. We should just
spk_0
have her do crochet also. So I fell into where I was doing both with them. And so that's literally
spk_0
how it happened. It was, I asked for yarn and I walked away with them sponsoring videos.
spk_0
Yeah, it's putting yourself out there. Again, putting yourself. So at the same time,
spk_0
were you getting responses from a lot of the other yarn companies? Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah, I got yarn from Lion Brand. I got yarn from yarn sparrations. I got yarn from Cascade. I mean,
spk_0
all the other yarn companies were sending me yarn. So and at that time, I told Red Heart they couldn't
spk_0
be exclusive. You know, they were just, they were sponsoring those episodes that they were doing
spk_0
with the exception of the knitting site. They were exclusive to the knitting site. I didn't do
spk_0
anything else. But yeah, I just used all of it. So then a year into our relationship with Red Heart
spk_0
and myself, you remember this? I called you and I talked to you about, I was like, hey,
spk_0
this is what I'm going to do. What do you think? And you were like, go for it. And so I pitched the idea
spk_0
of me being their spokesperson and really collaborating our brands even more than what they were.
spk_0
And they thought it was a fabulous idea. And here I am. You're going to have later.
spk_0
And I'd like to give props to Red Heart here too, because, you know, I was, I was the spokesperson for
spk_0
various incarnations of yarn inspirations, like Karen and then Bernat and then your inspirations
spk_0
for, for six years. And what I, and so I have experience in the space, what I've noticed that Red Heart
spk_0
has been especially great at is not trying to have you come on to just be the talking head for
spk_0
stuff that they have going on within their own walls. They, instead, have truly partnered to let
spk_0
you do you, but with a mindfulness of their brand and using their products. And that is something
spk_0
that I think really lends itself to a successful collaboration.
spk_0
Hard to agree. In any of the craft industries. It's so important and that something. And, you know,
spk_0
again, I mentioned the pioneering before. This is really only a few years into the whole
spk_0
influencer thing, being a thing. So I don't want to take away from any company's struggles.
spk_0
Everybody's trying to figure out how this works and how it doesn't work. But I've seen it again
spk_0
and again, those kind of influencer relationships or spokesperson relationships, where it's not just
spk_0
a talking head spokesperson in the traditional sense, but actually someone who's at the forefront.
spk_0
It's crucial that their voice be the voice at the forefront. Yeah. They are, I've worked with a lot
spk_0
of different companies in the indie side of it all. I haven't worked with very many in the
spk_0
Big Box site. Red Heart's really the only one. And if I'm being completely honest before you do
spk_0
that, let's explain what the difference is. Okay. So think about the yarn you could purchase at
spk_0
Michael's Joanne's Walmart AC More. The yarns that you find there, we're going to call those
spk_0
Big Box yarns. So Lion Brand, Red Heart, Yarnspirations, Premiere, all of those brands. And then
spk_0
independent side, that's where you would find the Beeshoe Basin, the Cascade, anything that you
spk_0
would find at a local yarn store. So there's like a separation there. And so I've worked with a
spk_0
lot of different companies on the indie side, but not very many on the Big Box site. And the
spk_0
general consensus on the indie side is typically, oh, you don't want to go to corporate. They,
spk_0
you know, they'll chew you up and spit you out sort of thing. And I can tell you as a, I'm not
spk_0
an official employee, but somebody that works with Red Heart, they are amazing. They are wonderful
spk_0
people to work with. They listen, they take your advice and they really do think about stuff.
spk_0
They, just as you said, they do work really great as collaborating.
spk_0
They're simply wonderful on the customer side as a consumer. I am so proud to work with a
spk_0
company that treats their employees the way they treat their employees because they are phenomenal.
spk_0
They are absolutely phenomenal people. And whether I work with Red Heart in the future or it ends
spk_0
tomorrow, I will feel that way. They are just a really wonderful great company to work with.
spk_0
They're really great. That's so great to hear because, yeah, honestly, you don't hear that a lot.
spk_0
They don't think you hear that a lot in general, not just in our industry right now.
spk_0
It's just we're all in such a period of trying to figure out where technology
spk_0
begins and the old school way ends and that kind of thing. So that's wonderful. And, you know,
spk_0
I can also add to that that the president, John is one of my favorite people in the industry,
spk_0
like just just solid people. And so many people, Bobby's great and just everyone over there is
spk_0
really great. Yeah, I love that they are also treating you well. That makes me happy.
spk_0
What at what point are when you're talking about the whole the income pie?
spk_0
Yeah. Do you have any form of? Do you have an equation for how do you break it up? Or is it just like
spk_0
is it more like a like a pot pie where you throw whatever's in the freezer? You know, I'm saying so
spk_0
yes. Knowing what we know about not only the
spk_0
exorbitant amount of time that it takes to get paid for designs, but as a side note, designers
spk_0
are still paid somewhere in the realm of what we were paid in the 1980s. Well,
spk_0
yes, because we weren't designers in the 80s, but designers. So it's also not viable to just be a
spk_0
designer. So knowing that do you do you have when you're stepping back, do you look at okay,
spk_0
I know that I can make a way more money doing videos than I can do this. So I'm going to make
spk_0
that piece of pie bigger or are you just kind of throwing everything in?
spk_0
You know, once you start, I give myself at least a quarter to kind of see where things are landing,
spk_0
you know, what's making money, what's costing me more money, what's costing me time.
spk_0
You may not have a quarter as in a time period. Yeah, quarter and time frame. Okay. So a quarter of a
spk_0
year, so three months to kind of, and I review every quarter, I think of it as like when it's tax
spk_0
time, it's time to review what's making money, what's not. And you try and I try and put my
spk_0
my efforts and my energy towards the things that are making more money. Having said that,
spk_0
it's really difficult because there are some of the pieces of my pie that even though they're
spk_0
making more money, they're the opposite of them, I still need to pay attention to because the
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success of the opposite is what is able to maintain the former. So let me, let me put this in
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perspective. My relationship with Red Heart and my ability to be the person that I am with them,
spk_0
my success, my popularity for lack of a better word is also dependent on the fact that I give out
spk_0
new content that I produce a podcast that I do travel the country teaching that I do write books
spk_0
that I do these patterns. So even though the pattern in the magazine might not make me very
spk_0
much money, the fact that I'm in that magazine is a direct correlation to why I have my Red Heart
spk_0
position. Does that make sense? So that's where I'm having the most, not struggle, that's not the
spk_0
word. It's, it's, I'm trying to figure out how to manage my time because even though it would
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make sense that doing videos with Red Heart and XYZ should take the majority of my time,
spk_0
I have to remember that I can't just let all this other stuff go, otherwise my value to Red Heart
spk_0
also diminishes. So I end up feeling, I feel like I do two jobs. I feel like I'm still maintaining the
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the Marley Bird brand, you know, because that brand is what Red Heart is, is partnering with to
spk_0
really excel their brand. Does, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's hard. And well, for me,
spk_0
I, I also think of some of these jobs that don't pay as well, including writing books, because
spk_0
my books don't, that's, that is the biggest facade out there. Is that you're going to be rich?
spk_0
I mean, I made decent money in the, in the beginning when they were handing out book deals, but,
spk_0
but now it's changed. So I go into that, but you're right, there's a, there's a certain amount
spk_0
of credibility that you get from just being published. So I've tried to shift my focus a little bit
spk_0
towards that time that I put into it is my quote-unquote marketing budget. Yes. It's just a budget
spk_0
of time versus money because I am getting a little income, but it in no way covers the amount of time
spk_0
that goes into something like that. But, you know, being able to say that you've written 12 books
spk_0
means that gives you a credibility that would not be there without it. So
spk_0
you know, sometimes the pieces to the pie are not fully financial. Sometimes they're also exposure, but
spk_0
working for exposure, just for exposure is not necessarily a model that I'm pro either. So you
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have to figure out where the balance is to make sure that you're getting, you're getting at least
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something that you can spin into something else bigger, like breaking that book out into a series
spk_0
of classes or, you know, collaborating on a design that is then put into a shop, whose mass
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manufactured or whatever it is. It's about thinking broader instead of it just being that one
spk_0
project. You're absolutely right. So to answer your question, to break it down to, you know,
spk_0
what percentage needs to come from where it really does end up being like the big chicken pot pie,
spk_0
where everything just kind of gets thrown in. And you just really hope that you are giving
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enough attention where you need to give the attention. So that way there isn't any
spk_0
law in the income coming in where you're in between payments for like a couple months because
spk_0
man, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah, it really does. Right? Yeah, we're all everybody who's
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lose these like, yeah, it's hard because it's not that your business ends for those two months. I
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still have to pay my fees for my website, my podcast and everything that goes with that and my
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tech editors and my contractors because even though I'm not getting paid, I still have the engine
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running in the background. Like there's always something happening. I tell my husband, I'm like,
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I feel like I'm constantly spinning the plates, you know, and whenever one gets wobbly, I'm running
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over to that one to make sure it's spinning again. You know what I'm saying? At what point? Absolutely.
spk_0
I think every independent contractor is nodding their head right now. At what point do you take
spk_0
that leap though to bring on help? So you're not doing it all on your own because I think that's a
spk_0
crucial, that's a crucial turning point in in anyone's careers in independent contractor.
spk_0
One more time. Well, ask that one more time. I'm sorry. At what point do you take the leap to
spk_0
actually bring on help so that you're not doing everything on your own?
spk_0
Um, that's, I'm still, so I have, I have helped now and it's just recently that it's come in and it
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was when I literally am getting no sleep and I just tried to figure out how much could I forward on
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a monthly basis and what exactly do I want this person to come in and do to take off of my plate?
spk_0
So like I have somebody who is helping me with maintaining my blog, maintaining my Facebook and
spk_0
social media connections and when I figured out that I could financially afford that,
spk_0
I have given them, or them working with me, you know, this is not, I'm not saying you have six
spk_0
months, but like behind the scenes, I'm thinking, okay, I have six months to see if that money I'm
spk_0
putting, giving to them, I'm making that back, you know, whether it's through advertising on my
spk_0
blog or being able to get other stuff done, like I'm trying, I want to make sure that there's value
spk_0
in having that extra help other than just having some extra time, you know, like to sleep.
spk_0
So, um, yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't know when the right time is to ask for help, whether it's
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getting a virtual assistant to help with the blog and coordinating stuff or if it's
spk_0
getting contractors so that you can up your production or what it is, I think you just,
spk_0
I don't know, there's just like, you just know, when you know, you know.
spk_0
Did you have any trouble relinquishing that control?
spk_0
No, I could free you. Yeah, I am, I'm really good at delegating and I'm not a micromanager at all,
spk_0
like I'm just like, look, here's the pattern, here's the yarn, here's how much time you have to
spk_0
make it, make it, or here's, here are the topics I want you to write about, here are the details,
spk_0
here's the images you need, just do it. Um, and I tell my kids all the time, I'm like, you know,
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Steve Jobs wasn't making the Macintosh, he was designing it, he was improving it, he was doing all
spk_0
the stuff that he was really good at, but then there were other people that, you know, did the
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nuts and bolts and put it together, or, you know what I mean? Like you find where you're really good at
spk_0
and you delegate everything else because that overall makes you your business productive.
spk_0
Yeah. What is it that you hope that people take away from their time with you, whether it's in a
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physical classroom, a physical, a virtual class like on creative bug, or from your podcast, reading your
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blog? I want people to have confidence that they can do anything with knitting or crochet. I want
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and I want them to leave my class or leave my podcast, feeling happy, encouraged, and hopefully
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with a smile on their face. Like I, I want to be that positive person that maybe is the only
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positive thing they have in their whole day. I want to be that person for them.
spk_0
Well, Marley, you always put a bright smile, a bright spot of my day every, every time we talk,
spk_0
thank you so much for being on this podcast. It's such a delight, such a treat, thanks.
spk_0
For more information on Marley Bird, go to her show notes page at Fikihowl.com slash craftish.
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All right, now it is time for what I'm crafting ish to this week. So it's what I am listening to
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or watching that keeps me entertained while I'm working, making, and just frankly living.
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All right, so like everybody else in the entire, on the entire planet earth, I am watching with
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my husband Game of Thrones. So what is there to say about that, except for I bow down to the
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creators? But I've also, I also binge watch a lesser known show. It's a TV adaptation of the
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2011 film, Hana. The original start, Kate Blanchett, Eric Banna, and a then new to the scene,
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Sarsha Ronan. I actually haven't seen that version yet, but was drawn to the Amazon series because
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it starred two actors who had also worked together in a series I loved, The Killing. That's Muriel
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Enos, Angel, Kinnaman. So they were reunited for this, and I was super excited about that. So Hana
spk_0
is both a high concept thriller and a coming of age drama, and it follows the journey of an
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extraordinary young girl, this version skillfully played by Esmeen Creed Miles, who's raised in the
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forest, as she evades the relentless pursuit of an off-book CIA agent and tries to unearth the
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truth behind who she is. This version is well acted, directed, and shot, and if you like the genre,
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is totally worth your time. All right, so audiobooks, I just recently started and was instantly hooked
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into listening to this audiobook that I discovered after hearing the author, Dr. W. Thomas Boise,
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interviewed on Impares Fresh Air. So it's called The Dandy Lion and the Orchid, why some children
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struggle and how all can thrive. And it's an absolutely fascinating recount of a 30-year-long study
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on how stress and sensory sensitive children, which they call in this book The Orchids,
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adapt and react to their life surroundings versus their dandy lion, those who have a more
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average sensitivity to stress, counter parts too. And this is largely based on the socio-emotional
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surroundings they're raised in, along with all kinds of, you know, obviously there's a lot of
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nature aspect to it as well. But if you are raising, teaching, or just know, a kid of who might fit
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the Orchid description, I highly recommend you know listening to the audiobook or reading the book,
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it's called The Dandy Lion and the Orchid. Kraftish is produced in Austin, Texas by me,
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Mickie Hull, and Mixed and Edited by Dave Campbell. Music is provided by Explosions in the Sky.
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And if you've liked this episode, please share it with a friend or give us a rating and review
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on Apple podcasts that really helps us to be able to make more shows because more people listen to it.
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Refresh your feed next week for another episode of The Kraftish Podcast. And until then,
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please take a little time to feed that creative well, in creative, keep you open. If you're open,
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then we talk to each other, if we talk to each other, the world's a better place. So, until then,