Triple Crowning with Stage 4 Cancer with Jeff "Long Strides" Vonvai (BPR #330)

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 In today's episode of Backback Radio, presented with a truck brought to you by element we are joined by Jeff Von Vaay, an on trail as long strides.

spk_0 This conversation will put life's problems into perspective because for the past seven years, long strides has been through hiking with stage 4 colon cancer, despite being given just a 3-6 month prognosis.

spk_0 Jeff shares what it's like to balance intense rounds of chemo and surgery between hikes, the challenges of rebuilding his trail legs each time he returns to the trail, and how cancer has transformed his outlook on life, saying he's happier now than he was before his diagnosis.

spk_0 Be ready to feel inspired. We wrap the show with the news that the CDC's Southern Terminus now requires US citizenship and an army issued permit, how to hike the Colorado Trail, unless $800, what crime chance committed to wind up in prison, and the triple crown of things that make us cringe.

spk_0 But first, if you've listened to this podcast for any period of time, I've sounded like a broken record about the importance of supplementing with electrolytes while back backing.

spk_0 During my first hike, Drink Islanded in the hospital with a condition called hyponatremia, a fancy term for low blood sodium levels, symptoms included intense headaches, dizziness, and generally feeling like a bag of Richards.

spk_0 This happened as a result of heavy sweating, overconsuming water, and underconsuming electrolytes, a couple of saline IVs and a hefty medical bill later, and my energy was magically restored.

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spk_0 Welcome to Backfacculated, presented with a track brought to you by Element I'm your cohost Zach Badger Davis.

spk_0 Hi, I'm Julianna Chonzi, aka Chonzi.

spk_0 A few reminders before we get to today's episode is this is going to be the last call. If you through hike to the AT this year, we would love if you could participate in the AT through Hiker survey.

spk_0 This proved to be invaluable for future classes of AT Hikers, letting them know what gear works, your favorite hostels, basically everything that went right and wrong during your through hike.

spk_0 Link to be a part of that is available in the show notes next is if you're taking on a long distance trek next year and you want to be part of the baddest team in the back country, applications to join the track blogging team are available in the show notes.

spk_0 A few of the highlights of being a part of the program is we sent out mail drops. I think just send out like 25 million just went through the credit card statement.

spk_0 And it was a lot of mail drops to our standout contributors. We've got gear discounts to some of the best brands and backpacking and you get featured on a tracks large and thriving social media platforms in addition to reaching a large audience and having an easy to use platform all the good stuff can be triple crown trail short trail long as section hike.

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spk_0 patreon.com slash back radio. Okay, let's get to today's interview with Jeff Longstriads von Wei von Wei.

spk_0 You asked and they I know I know I should have done the phonetic. I started long distance hiking on the communal france a some quickly continued with Camino Portugais AT PCT and came straight to the studio via the CDT and route to his triple crown.

spk_0 Longstriads has done all this hiking with a stage four cancer diagnosis and has hardly slowed him down long strides. Thank you so much for joining us here on Backpack Radio. Thank you.

spk_0 So let's start with the origin story. What got you into the outdoors? Well, I've always liked the outdoors and also anything kind of physical and used to be into cycling and that kind of stuff.

spk_0 I think later in life I mean everyone's hike but not high tiked and I moved to Tucson.

spk_0 2008, 9ish right in there a lot of good hiking in Tucson and that kind of got me more interested in it. So that's what kind of pushed me a little bit further into it.

spk_0 Is that where you fell in love with desert hiking? I do like desert hiking. I desert is not for everybody but I love the desert. I think it's beautiful.

spk_0 It has a different feel different colors just vibes and anything else that you're ever going to hike for. Yeah.

spk_0 Elaborate on the elevator pitch. It's great for some people. Well, it's just sun rises and sun sets. Nothing looks the same as it is a desert.

spk_0 Of course, I'm in southern Arizona Tucson, which the big sororocactus. Those are only native to northern Mexico and southern Arizona. So that's the only place you can see them and walking around them and as old as they are, it's different.

spk_0 And then you have the flowers, you know, the barrel cactus, they all flower and everything and then down in Tucson, you're surrounded by the Cadillac mountains. So you have water and trees and just there's a lot of ecosystem that you walk them. It's all a desert climate at least but not all of it is sand and lizards.

spk_0 Yeah. So are you a baseball guy? I like baseball a bit. Yeah. Ask because spring trainings in your backyard or was it? Yeah. Well, up in Phoenix.

spk_0 Yeah, more a little bit in Tucson, but it's mostly in Phoenix because just facilities are just nicer. Yeah.

spk_0 How did you get from enjoying the outdoors in Arizona to through hiking? Because I surprise I don't see the Arizona trail on this list.

spk_0 Well, and I haven't through hiked it, but I've done big sections of it. I love the Arizona trail. It's, you know, part of it, but I haven't completed it and, you know, I've just done some of it, which is some of the stuff that helped me get to it.

spk_0 And really the through hiking part of it started in 2018 when I had when I did the first Camino, the Camino Frances.

spk_0 I was at a point in my life where I had to kind of change everything. And so everyone goes through things. So I thought I needed to change this. And so I did reconfigure my life. And I headed off to Spain and spent, you know, three months in Europe and 33 of it doing the Camino Frances.

spk_0 And at the end of that, that made me I want to go further with this, you know, long trails, the day to day grind and, you know, the day to day meditation, I should say, not grind. And I like that. So that's kind of where it started. So really wasn't just through hiking kind of fit what I needed to in my adjust life adjustment.

spk_0 Why were you adjusting?

spk_0 Not a super crazy story. I was in a bad relationship that I needed to get myself out of.

spk_0 I had somebody close to me pass away. These are all things that happened to just about everybody. So, but I was also pushing 50. I was almost getting to 50. I have to I cannot do this.

spk_0 I have to stop the hamster will that I'm on. I've got to change things.

spk_0 Wherever the chips fall with the chips fall, but I'm done. I got to go. So at the end of 2017, I left my at job in December 17, 2017.

spk_0 And April 4th of 18, I was taking my first steps from San John, Peter Porfranc, some of the Frances.

spk_0 What were you doing for work?

spk_0 I used to manage. I was in the car business for years. And then in the last bit I used to work in an air stream business, the trailers.

spk_0 Yeah, down to songs. So, yeah. So not exciting, but the day job, the grind that pays every the bills for you and everyone attached to you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So we obviously mentioned it in your intro, but it sounds like shortly after that first through.

spk_0 Because when you got some life changing news, yeah, I came back from Europe and I knew doing the first commuter Frances that this is I really wanted to I don't know where I was going, but I knew I wanted to include this at some level to that.

spk_0 And so when I got back, I needed to do a little traveling around the United States, visits and people I hadn't seen in years that because I worked all the time that it was impossible.

spk_0 So I really just goofed more than anything, just decompressed more than anything and try to think about things.

spk_0 And then it was September of 19. I was about to make some decisions on what to do. The AT was kind of in my orbit of things that I was very interested in doing.

spk_0 But September 19th, I did have a I had some pain that I thought I had a kidney stone. I don't know if you've read a kidney stone before.

spk_0 I've heard it's not the most fun experience.

spk_0 Yeah, I've had one once and it felt like that got me in the emergency room. This that and the other.

spk_0 I said, you're you know, have anything else to pass. I'd passed something. But, um, yeah, but they said you need to see a doctor immediately though.

spk_0 So it took a little cascade of my abdomen. So, but at that time, it started erupting. No, if you'll any different than the previous kidney stone, like similar, but different or the same.

spk_0 It was just kind of, you know, in the side, you know, it's always in the front on the side, kind down by your pelvic bone, kind of that area. It's just like a nice stab in you.

spk_0 So I thought I passed it in the emergency room. And the doctor, he thought it was to the nurse after he left, looked at him, I don't think that's a kidney stone. I think of the blood clot.

spk_0 And he comes back says, we're clear, but because they said, we'll send you for a cat scan to make sure you're not going to pass anything else. And if so, we can give you some medicine. It's great.

spk_0 Cat scan, he goes, he's a doctor immediately.

spk_0 And that's what he's spirals. So yes, I was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. Wow.

spk_0 And at that point, I had gotten so blocked that they had done and they went ahead and had to do a colostomy.

spk_0 If you're familiar with what a colostomy is, you want me to explain with that for you.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 This is the very layman's way of describing this. And so I'm a layman.

spk_0 You have your stomach.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 And as it goes up, it's stopped makes pit stops of the kidney and liver for filtration stuff as your, you know, the what human waste does.

spk_0 And then it goes around this way. And as it keeps going around underneath your sternum and down to your left side, it solidifies until it reaches your rectum and then you get rid of stuff.

spk_0 Mine was way over on this left side right above my rectum.

spk_0 So they did it colostomy right at that point.

spk_0 What that is, they put a hole in my abdomen.

spk_0 And when I go to the bathroom, it would come out there.

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Yeah. And it goes into a bag. It's called a colostomy bag.

spk_0 You're pooping from your stomach?

spk_0 Well, it's kind of not the stomach stomach, but your belly.

spk_0 But boy, you're your your your colon, which is basically the highway to the rectum.

spk_0 If that's a good way to explain it.

spk_0 That's crazy.

spk_0 Yeah. And it wasn't good, but I had bigger things because they.

spk_0 I they played with timelines of three to six months.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 So which I didn't know at the time, because I told everybody close to me, don't tell me.

spk_0 I don't want to know anything good, bad or indifferent.

spk_0 I've never Googled anything, web indeed, anything, and nothing ever.

spk_0 Focus.

spk_0 And so I had that and then I went into chemo luckily.

spk_0 I live in Michigan now and I'm at the U of M, which is one of the top cancer research hospitals in the world.

spk_0 My doctor is head of the colorectal department of oncology.

spk_0 He took me on.

spk_0 I got to be on a study drug in addition to six other chemos.

spk_0 So when I go for chemo, boy, I go for chemo.

spk_0 Every chemo's triple is counter your triple crown.

spk_0 So, um, and he said if we can get this reduced enough, you could qualify for an experimental surgery to help out too, because it.

spk_0 They'd also found that it already spread to my peritoneal, which is the lining of my stomach.

spk_0 So it already spread.

spk_0 It's crazy to me that you didn't have any symptoms up until the point that it was already stage four.

spk_0 Like that seems unfair.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, and I can look back and I had a few little symptoms, but nothing that would draw big thing.

spk_0 And also, even at the very beginning of this, my blood work looked great.

spk_0 Really.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 No elevated white blood cell countering that.

spk_0

spk_0 Just one quick question before I just want to know what were the other symptoms like the small symptoms?

spk_0 Well, I mean, it could be like something as small as a.

spk_0 Um, constipation.

spk_0 I have, but that, I mean, right, everyone that's literally 100% of the population.

spk_0 So, um, I did have a couple of episodes where I felt like I was.

spk_0 I got the flu.

spk_0 Really bad.

spk_0 And it would last for about four hours and go away.

spk_0 And I talked to that about that with somebody else and I said, that could be.

spk_0 And they gave me a long explanation.

spk_0

spk_0 It's probably, it's probably an indicator.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 And also, I lost a bunch of weight when I did the Camino Francesce.

spk_0 And plus I walked all over Europe.

spk_0 And I was constantly moving.

spk_0 And I lost weight like we all do.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Things.

spk_0 I never gained it back.

spk_0 Huh.

spk_0 And these through bikes, when I gained back real fast.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So it never came back.

spk_0 If anything, I probably lost another five pounds.

spk_0 Huh.

spk_0 And that's because the cancer is preventing you from absorbing nutrients or.

spk_0 Kind of.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 One.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 For sure.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Do you poop out of your butt now?

spk_0 Oh, yeah.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Everything's turned back around.

spk_0 Once they had that.

spk_0 And I went into chemo.

spk_0 I don't think they were.

spk_0 Super.

spk_0 Very low percentage shot that I was going to be able to reduce the tumors enough.

spk_0 To qualify for this surgery.

spk_0 And they'd done.

spk_0 That's one surgery they did on a couple of exploration surgeries already.

spk_0 But this.

spk_0 So let me backtrack a second.

spk_0 So you get an experimental drug plus like a regular sense of chemo.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Six different.

spk_0 And you need that to work to qualify for the experimental surgery.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 And.

spk_0 And here's the thing is.

spk_0 So obviously I'm not hiking.

spk_0 But we're also walking right into the beginning of COVID.

spk_0 So no one's really hiking.

spk_0 So it all worked out in my favor.

spk_0 I like to use the hiking plans on the mind.

spk_0 Well, and that's part of it.

spk_0 So I'll tell you.

spk_0 When I.

spk_0 During all this and everything I had.

spk_0 I couldn't do much.

spk_0 COVID.

spk_0 We don't know what COVID is going to be.

spk_0 I could be super high risk.

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 I did live alone.

spk_0 So that was good.

spk_0 And everything.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 I made it made out of plan.

spk_0 For like the next 10 years, till 2028.

spk_0 Hikes that I want to do.

spk_0 What I want to do.

spk_0 What I want to see.

spk_0 I tried to meticulously kind of.

spk_0 Plug this still long together.

spk_0 So you made a 10 year plan after the doctor gave you a three to six month diagnosis.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 And how much of the fact that you're still out here crushing miles.

spk_0 You attribute to having that sort of carrot.

spk_0 I give most of my credit to my oncologist in this.

spk_0 My surgeon who's had a surgery.

spk_0

spk_0 But there is a small part.

spk_0 And this can be.

spk_0 You can put this to anything in any in your life.

spk_0 Is if you put blinders on.

spk_0 And just just push.

spk_0 Just push.

spk_0 Fight.

spk_0 Just go.

spk_0 Don't listen to anything.

spk_0 Reasoning one anyway to say anything is if someone told me something good about my condition.

spk_0 Then I get excited.

spk_0 And I'd wait for the.

spk_0 The signs of that thing to happen to me.

spk_0 And if they don't happen.

spk_0 Then I'm going to think it's the opposite.

spk_0 And it's going to be terrible.

spk_0 And I'm going to start to go down.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 If they tell me something that's terrible.

spk_0 Well, I'm going to my thoughts are going to dwell on that.

spk_0 And I'm going to go down.

spk_0 How difficult is it to just keep the blinders on and keep that positive mindset.

spk_0 That seems difficult to me.

spk_0 Like that would be a challenge.

spk_0 I was blessed.

spk_0 It'd be very stupid.

spk_0 So it's very.

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Very easy.

spk_0 Ignorance is bliss, right?

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Or whatever you just said.

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Well, I think part of it is I am pretty stubborn.

spk_0 And I'm a determined person.

spk_0 So I have that.

spk_0 But I also think the other part of it is is.

spk_0 It makes everything an exact fork in the road.

spk_0 You have two choices.

spk_0 So it leaves you very little choice.

spk_0 I mean, you can just some people get a diagnosis like that.

spk_0 And they just never go back to the doctor.

spk_0 Other people are like, let's go.

spk_0 And that's what I'm great.

spk_0 It's just your choices are very limited.

spk_0 And we don't have something big like that.

spk_0 You seem to have a million choices that you're constantly deciding.

spk_0 But you don't know what to pull from.

spk_0 It makes it very singular in your thinking.

spk_0 So in a way, the cancer help will help you fight cancer.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 What does that make sense?

spk_0 It makes sense.

spk_0 For sure.

spk_0 What do the doctors think about the through-hate game?

spk_0 Because I imagine they don't probably get many patients that are spending the time out of the hospital doing this kind of thing.

spk_0 Well, I'm lucky.

spk_0 My oncologist, he's a cyclist, a marathoner, triathlete guy, a little older than me.

spk_0 Great guy, super smart, very encouraging to what I, although, you know, I'll tell you more as we go down the progression of this.

spk_0 But I'm always flunking my tests.

spk_0 I always have it.

spk_0 So, and we kind of piece me back, he pieces me back together and it's like that.

spk_0 And then we're looking at test again and he goes, yeah, you know, just go.

spk_0 And if you feel bad, come home.

spk_0 That's it.

spk_0 That's all you, just if I feel bad, come back.

spk_0 Well, I would think that maybe your tests look better with so much physical activity versus just like sitting at home.

spk_0 That's kind of my question is does it has they have they noticed that it's impacted anything differently than a patient who would have just gone back and sat down there.

spk_0 There are some initial studies that are showing now that people that know exercise versus moderate exercise versus excessive exercise, which would be us, you know, that they think there are some signs of a difference.

spk_0 Being obviously excessive exercises is helpful.

spk_0 I think I'm in that study that because I think he's already published paperwork on me because no one's got to where I'm at with what I got.

spk_0 So, I mean, so chemo, I had the colostomy and I go into chemo.

spk_0 It does bring it down enough and they decided to do surgery.

spk_0 It's about a it's called high-peck surgery.

spk_0 And it's about it.

spk_0 I think I was in under for 13 or 14 hours.

spk_0 And during that, you'll not like this.

spk_0 So they took the colostomy out.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And they had to remove that little section of colon and put everything back together.

spk_0 But when they put that back together, then on the other side of the colon, then they put what they call an iliosdomy.

spk_0 So it's another bag, but on this side, and it's keeping everything on the highway from getting around to here to where all this new works done.

spk_0 But that's not solid.

spk_0 This is this is going to be the best answer to a question that I've ever had.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 And I don't think we would ever thought we would get the answer to this.

spk_0 Do you remember our question of the day, when does poop start smelling like poop?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And we talked about at some point, it's got to start smelling like poop.

spk_0 Well, you've had bagged poop from all these different.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 When does it have you noticed when it starts to smell like poop?

spk_0 I haven't.

spk_0 Does it smell like poop coming out of this?

spk_0 Between the backs of it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 At the first pit stop back here before, you know, for like liver kidney area, it doesn't really smell that bad.

spk_0 And then not that it smells, you know, but over here, it still doesn't smell bad, but it starts as it's like how we're what we're used to.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So somewhere in there diet poop basically.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But it's it's go once it's over on this side on your left side.

spk_0 You're.

spk_0 I've got a couple more questions out of curiosity.

spk_0 When the when it's coming out on the other side on this side, the pooper side, poopier side, when it comes, do you still have to push or it is it come out on its own?

spk_0 It'll come out on its own.

spk_0 Are you just sitting there and then you like feel something and you look down and there's just like a log like slowly coming out.

spk_0 Kind of, but you're have a bag that's like, oh, pay.

spk_0 You can't see anything.

spk_0 Oh.

spk_0 And but you feel it kind of you can kind of feel right in there.

spk_0 You can feel it start to happen and you think.

spk_0 And then, you know, you can see the bag move as.

spk_0 Do you do they.

spk_0 It looks identical to what you're thinking.

spk_0 Well, I'm wondering more does it does it stay like long consistent like a swirly of ice cream coil?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 I feel like when it breaks, you know, you ever get like a really good large size piece that you look at and you're like, that was great.

spk_0 Or it breaks and then you're like, oh, but if you're not pushing it out of the bum, I'm sure it stays all together and you're just looking at it like, wow.

spk_0 Pretty much it'll do the same thing.

spk_0 Whereas it may be one piece or maybe two or three, depending on, I don't know, something and you're, you know, maybe you're laying down funky.

spk_0 You know, you bent over and, you know, that's crazy.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Fascinating.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 So, yeah.

spk_0 They remove part of your colon.

spk_0 You get the iliost.

spk_0 The colostomy that they've removed and now on the other side, they've put in the iliostomy to keep in all the feces coming around to that.

spk_0 The open the incision on this side that they've all done.

spk_0

spk_0 The actual high-peck surgery itself.

spk_0 So they split me from right underneath my sternum all the way to below my waistline and they open you up and he took basically, you know, everything out and.

spk_0 It goes through everything with a fine tooth comb.

spk_0 Here, we've removed a couple of little things that like fatty tissues, stuff that we all have that we don't need but can't select to grab a hold of and remove that.

spk_0 And then they heat up chemo to 100 and I think 105 or 130 degrees something like that and they fill the cavity with that and they temporary close you up and everyone goes and eats and goes to the bathroom and they operate for about an hour and a half and they come out and then they drain me.

spk_0 And then they go back to the stuff that he goes back through it again and puts me up.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 So that surgery I did have a colostomy removed and iliostomy put in colon, you know, redone there and then the high-peck surgery.

spk_0 That was, as like I said, almost 14 hours I believe in surgery but it was 15 days in the hospital before I can go.

spk_0 So what is the outcome of that or they assume they're measuring the total amount of cancer before and after the operation?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 What are they looking for in terms of bulls?

spk_0 Well, I mean, they think that the chemo had killed the tumors enough in the colon and then they took the colon out where the tumors were attached so they're gone.

spk_0 The, the, the, the, the, um, paratinial deline in my stomach, I was really more for the, the high-peck surgery.

spk_0 They got that as well.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 So after this, then I was pretty good other than so much chemo, chemo's the worst, chemo's the worst.

spk_0 So I was a little targic most of the time but I was moving through life.

spk_0 But I was ready to get going.

spk_0 Now I had the ilios to me and I wasn't going to, I can't do hikes with that.

spk_0 So once we got all the thumbs up, I told them said we got to get rid of this and I like, well, no, no, no, no, no, no.

spk_0 I've earned it and I go, you have.

spk_0 So I went in, got that taken care of, everything, just like a brand new little guy.

spk_0 I'm a brand new kid.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So everything works great.

spk_0 I had my site set on the AT.

spk_0 But I kind of missed the weather window to go northbound.

spk_0 I was a little bit too far and I needed most time as I could because I was pretty weak.

spk_0 And we're looking at 21 now?

spk_0 No, no, we're at 22.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Yeah, we're at 22.

spk_0 I was going to miss it but I thought, you know, I got, I got to go.

spk_0 I got to get out there.

spk_0 So like three weeks before this, I did this decision.

spk_0 I made, I said, I'm going to go back to Europe and I'm going to see a couple of things I'd like to see that I didn't see the first time around.

spk_0 And I'm going to do the communal Portuguese and I'm going to do the communal note day back to back.

spk_0 Is that risk here because you are so far from your medical team being across the pond?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 I mean, they have doctors.

spk_0 I mean, I, you know, all my medical records are on my phones.

spk_0

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 So diagnosis and surgery is in 2020, right?

spk_0 2019, in 2019.

spk_0 So I guess walk me through that time span to when you get onto 22.

spk_0 Like is that just mostly you recovering from chemo or what's what are the highlights?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, I feel chemo today, but I've had to go back into chemo a few times.

spk_0 We'll get to, but the, yeah, I mean, I'd had a ton of chemo.

spk_0 A few surgeries, one being colossal and, you know, but they said go.

spk_0 So and at that point, I was cancer free.

spk_0 So that was crazy.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 So that gave you the cancer free diagnosis in 22.

spk_0 Yeah, right before that, yeah, right before I was going to go.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Well, really months before I was trying to figure out I had some other things going.

spk_0 I was trying to get that at window.

spk_0

spk_0 And so when you say that you're failing the tests, well, how does that work with being cancer free?

spk_0 Well, so when I go on 22, I just had to go to Europe and do the commuter, Portuguese and Northay back to back.

spk_0 So I got two more comminos in.

spk_0 And then I come back.

spk_0 And of course, they scanned me every three months, but for this, it'd be every six.

spk_0 So I came back and six, flunked all the tests.

spk_0 So it was showing.

spk_0 Actually, I think there was just a small spot in the peritoneal, which is the line of the skin.

spk_0 Then again, cold and fine.

spk_0 But it was showing up.

spk_0 I was had spots in my liver now and in my lungs.

spk_0 So it's spread to my liver and my lungs.

spk_0 So back in the chemo, we go.

spk_0 So we go into chemo.

spk_0 The lungs start to reduce the spots.

spk_0 I had like three or I don't even know, and little spots.

spk_0 And then the liver had two.

spk_0 They found a third later in my liver and they gave me a bunch of chemo and then they did an ablation.

spk_0 And ablations where they make a couple holes in my back.

spk_0 And they go in with needles into my into my liver and follow veins to the spots.

spk_0 And they just burn them.

spk_0 And they remove them.

spk_0 And then they send the pathology and look at it.

spk_0 And they got all three of them.

spk_0 And they said that the chemo had killed them.

spk_0 So that was done.

spk_0 And then the lungs had gone down to just nearly nothing.

spk_0 But I still had a bunch of chemo.

spk_0 And I said April 4th, 23.

spk_0 That's AT.

spk_0 And he goes, all right, all right.

spk_0 So we get going and he's not discouraging you at all.

spk_0 Oh, no, no, no.

spk_0 Yeah, no, no, having trouble grasping doctors like after a cancer diagnosis being like 2,200 miles cool.

spk_0 That's you know, no insurance.

spk_0 You should go on trail.

spk_0 Yeah, no.

spk_0 So no, but the, uh, no, he's fantastic.

spk_0 And what am I going to do?

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 You know, I mean, again, when you have that kind of diagnosis, it makes decisions very easy.

spk_0 Um, you know, so, um,

spk_0 So like the ablation, the things, and now we're getting down.

spk_0 And we, he, we do a couple more rounds of chemo after it after the ablation stuff.

spk_0 And so now we're in the timeline of the AT.

spk_0 I stopped chemo just barely over three weeks before I start the AT.

spk_0 And, you know, and you know, the AT.

spk_0 So I get out there.

spk_0 I'm ready to go.

spk_0 And, uh, day one was horrible.

spk_0 Um, I just, surgeries I can do.

spk_0 I mean, they hurt and especially big one.

spk_0 And a lot of recovery and stuff, but you can gut it out.

spk_0 And so chemo is like a giant weight from the gym attached to your leg.

spk_0 And you're just dragging it in every month or two.

spk_0 It gets a little bit smaller.

spk_0 Um, but it's just, it's hard to explain chemo is.

spk_0 I just, I just fog a lot.

spk_0 I also, from all the chemo that I've had, I've had, in total, I had 50 rounds of chemo now.

spk_0 But I have real bad neuropathy and my hands and feet.

spk_0 There's been times when I've only had like 30% of feeling in my hands and feet.

spk_0 I'm been, I've done these three trails on 75% of feeling.

spk_0 And what I do have kind of hurts like a, you know, sharp nerve pain.

spk_0 So, but once we, um, I get out there and go the day two was the worst.

spk_0 I couldn't feel my tent stakes.

spk_0 I was a last person into camp.

spk_0 I was a last person out in the morning, because I'm so sleepy.

spk_0 I'm still just, you know, with thargic and stupid.

spk_0 I can't believe I look at it now back.

spk_0 I was like, what was I think?

spk_0 So, uh, and I remember that day, the second day, um, I couldn't feel the tent stakes.

spk_0 And I was talking to somebody who I'm still friends with.

spk_0 And he went ahead and went and I got everything together and I said, I, I stupid.

spk_0 I can't do this.

spk_0 I mean, no one's, and I have no one knows, but I don't want, you know, bring the mood down.

spk_0 And this is stupid.

spk_0 I can't do this.

spk_0 This is the dumbest thing.

spk_0 And I've got like 2100 and something, you know, 83 miles left, you know.

spk_0 And it's like, it's not going to work.

spk_0 You know, and I just sat there for a minute and packed right ago.

spk_0 And I almost thought I just go back the other way, you know.

spk_0 And I thought, dude, you know, you have no time.

spk_0 You can't, you can't just bail out of these heights and go on.

spk_0 Next year, I'll be better and I may not, you know, I just stood up, you know, I said, just shut your mouth.

spk_0 Stop bitching.

spk_0 Point north.

spk_0 One step.

spk_0 Stop, you know, fucking baby and go.

spk_0 And that was really the last time I had that conversation.

spk_0 It was worse.

spk_0 I'm paraphrasing.

spk_0 But it was a terrible conversation I had with myself, but I was, that was it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And like day three or four, you're in like some place as a really sweet little hostel.

spk_0 I got in there and I took a day off, you know, in day three or something.

spk_0 It's like it took a zero day.

spk_0 And there was a bunch of people there that, two, three, four, five, five people there.

spk_0 I'm still friends with today that were taking it.

spk_0 They had one issue or another that all made it.

spk_0 And I'm still friends with them.

spk_0 That's cool.

spk_0 And so, so it took me six months and six days to do the AT.

spk_0 But I got there.

spk_0 Not even that slow.

spk_0 I mean, that's a pretty average time.

spk_0 I know you said that was the last time during that hike that you had had that internal dialogue with yourself.

spk_0 Things get easier or is it just you did, you were used to dealing with it?

spk_0 Yeah, well physically it got easier as I, as I hiked further away from the my last chemo appointment.

spk_0 It does get better.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 But I can only get, I'll never be 100%.

spk_0 I just won't be.

spk_0 And that's okay.

spk_0 You know, some people never gets like, do any, they get into diagnosis and three months later they're dead.

spk_0 So I'm killing it.

spk_0 So I'm fine with it.

spk_0 But yeah, I come back from the AT and I take my tests.

spk_0 I do my scans, flunked.

spk_0 You know, it's worse in my paratomy and my Lyanna, my stomach.

spk_0 I think I've got something else in my chest.

spk_0 Now, so many, and then the liver's still good.

spk_0 Cone's still good.

spk_0 I see the tests before my doctor.

spk_0 He would just message me.

spk_0 I get it on my phone and I'm reading it.

spk_0 I can, at this point I know.

spk_0 I almost expect it.

spk_0 So this is good.

spk_0 So my appointment, my actual doctor's appointment with my oncologist like two days later, three days after the test, our test results.

spk_0 And I'm in there and I'm hanging out and he opens a door and he goes, okay, so when do we leave for the PCT?

spk_0 Because we've already talked about it a little bit and I go, it's the same day April 4th, just 23.

spk_0

spk_0 Or I'm sorry, 24.

spk_0 And he goes, and he kind of goes and he's, all right, he goes, let's just hit it as hard as we can, as fast as we can.

spk_0 And we'll just see and I go, sounds good.

spk_0 And so I went right back into chemo and I came out of chemo five weeks before I took off one last year on the PCT on the same day, April 4th.

spk_0 So it sounds like before you're starting the AT at least things are in a pretty good state, all things considered.

spk_0 Obviously you're on chemo, but it sounds like the cancer has remissed or been removed.

spk_0 Well, yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the elation was very good on the liver.

spk_0 So that's a very, it's a day surgery.

spk_0 Yeah. So that was sweet.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And it brought the lungs down, the spots in my lungs brought those down pretty fast.

spk_0 I mean, they're still little, but pretty manageable.

spk_0 And then everything else was kind of good.

spk_0 So just the chemo, right, it was just the killer, but, but really it was, I mean, it's a terrible diagnosis, but it's pretty good for me.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, so then you hike the AT, you come back, take another test and things have gotten worse.

spk_0 Well, just flunked it, you know, just said, yeah, it's worse.

spk_0 It's lungs are back, the paratoneal delinus is back.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So it's just back into chemo again.

spk_0 Is there any part of you that's wrestling with the idea that maybe something with the hiking life is making things worse or no way?

spk_0 Don't be so weird.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, yeah, again, you start off with a three to six month diagnosis.

spk_0 So I think, I think, yeah.

spk_0 And that was 19.

spk_0 This is, this is 25.

spk_0

spk_0 So, so we're six years in.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, my surgeon who is fantastic, you know, he's just great.

spk_0 He's, I mean, he yet didn't have much filter.

spk_0 He's, how many goes, you know, wait, I don't know.

spk_0 Because we've never been this far with anybody.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 With what you have, you're like more than a bill, one in a billion.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So there's no way that anything I'm doing.

spk_0 It's making it worse.

spk_0 It's gotta be making it better.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 And at the very least, you know, just your attitude is better.

spk_0 And, you know, you're out there, you're fresh air.

spk_0 And you're just, I don't know, the meditation of, you know,

spk_0 of through hiking, which is a lot of it, you know, get in that.

spk_0 Your mind gets clearer.

spk_0 And anytime your mind's clear, I don't care what it is.

spk_0 Any problem you have big, small, whatever is better, the clear your mind.

spk_0 No matter what.

spk_0 But if we could, if we could use 100% of our minds, we could cure everything.

spk_0 That's it.

spk_0 I mean, with 10%, every time we get a cut, our brain knows to fix it.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well said.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 So your doctor knows just out the jump.

spk_0 There you go.

spk_0 When are we going to go the same day?

spk_0 And he goes, okay.

spk_0 And so, yeah, we go.

spk_0 And it works pretty well.

spk_0 We reduce everything down.

spk_0 Everything looks real good.

spk_0 I have my smaller, it seems very stable and we're good.

spk_0 So off I go on the PCT, have a blast.

spk_0 Biggest trail family I've ever been in, having a good time.

spk_0 I'm starting to lose weight again, normally on the hike.

spk_0 Because I gain it right back when I get on the side.

spk_0 I got this hike I'm determined to be good when I get off.

spk_0 And the, so the, the, um.

spk_0 So, but during the PCT, I somewhere in probably, I don't even know,

spk_0 Northern California somewhere.

spk_0 1500 miles in probably.

spk_0 I had lost enough weight to where I was.

spk_0 I could feel a big.

spk_0 Like not.

spk_0 Right here on my right side, lower abdomen.

spk_0 Kind of where like a where hernia would be, but it didn't hurt at all.

spk_0 So it wasn't that and I go, hmm.

spk_0 I think I know what that is.

spk_0 But I said, another thing to do about it out here.

spk_0 I got to get to Canada.

spk_0 So go, go, go, go.

spk_0 But everyone's like, that's still there.

spk_0 So, and so I, I made it through the PCT.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Great.

spk_0 I love the PCT.

spk_0 It's high seers or the probably the coolest thing I've ever hiked through.

spk_0 And then I get back and take that test.

spk_0 And I flank it real well.

spk_0 So what it is is I have a tumor.

spk_0 It's about an inch in diameter on my lower abdomen.

spk_0 And I come in and you go, well, it's got to be.

spk_0 Yeah, it's got to be.

spk_0 So, but it's external.

spk_0 It's on my abdominal wall.

spk_0 It's not an internal organ.

spk_0 So super excited about that.

spk_0 So he talks, we talk about it and talk about chemo.

spk_0 But he's like, you know, I go, what about sir?

spk_0 He goes, yeah, I think we should have Dr. Bennett to take a look at this.

spk_0 And so, and surgeon takes a look and he goes, I can get all that.

spk_0 I can get it.

spk_0 You know, they did all the scans and we pretty much solid.

spk_0 So they cut.

spk_0 So I left on this hike June, June 13th, February 15th of this year.

spk_0 I went in for surgery and they cut about a one, like I said, about a one inch diameter tumor out of my abdominal wall.

spk_0 And then he rebuilt it with like mesh and stuff and got everything to get in.

spk_0 Got me real tight.

spk_0 He said he's going to go real hard because he knows what I'm, you know, and, and,

spk_0 it worked out great.

spk_0 Took it to pathology, definitely cancer.

spk_0 And everything else looked good.

spk_0 I had, I still have, you know, like four spots in my lungs that they're about three millimeters each.

spk_0 And we're just kind of keeping on those, but they seem stable enough.

spk_0 And I feel good, but I haven't had chemo since, you know, before the PCT.

spk_0 So I don't feel great, but I feel great.

spk_0 You know, so, um, I was in the hospital like for that like three days.

spk_0 Yeah, it wasn't that bad, but I had to, you know, not lift anything heavy for like six weeks.

spk_0 And I was good to go.

spk_0 So on the backtrack a little bit, you mentioned when you were struggling early on on the AT that you didn't want to say anything to anyone around you.

spk_0 I think use your words not to dampen the mood.

spk_0

spk_0 As you're developing a hiking families, are you then?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Well, and this is all new ground for me, obviously.

spk_0 So I don't say anything because it's a bummer, you know, and, um, but then, you know, I have the YouTube and, you know, a channel on the Instagram and stuff.

spk_0 And they're following because they're like, well, I'm just going to quit taking pictures because I'm just telling my family to follow your YouTube.

spk_0 There's a daily phone.

spk_0 And they just, I'm just right next to him right there.

spk_0 But the thing is they see it.

spk_0 And I do mention it at the beginning of each hike.

spk_0 It's like, hey, this is so and so.

spk_0 Because I do have, you know, some cancer folks that follow me and message and I've had a couple of past.

spk_0 So, um, you know, but the thing is they'll see it.

spk_0 They'll see the cancer go.

spk_0 And then they can go, hey, man, what are you?

spk_0 Why don't you tell us?

spk_0 And I thought, all right, well, I'm okay.

spk_0 I'm handled this poorly, you know.

spk_0 So once I'm hiking with somebody for, you know, time and it's going to, it's getting to be worth getting to be friends.

spk_0 And they're going to look at this and go, hey, just so you know, and I try to go now, everything is fine.

spk_0 I mean, it's not, but everything's fine.

spk_0 I don't want to make it weird.

spk_0 I don't want to bum you guys out.

spk_0 But it's also better to hear it from me than to just see it on TV.

spk_0 And I just tell them.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, and everybody's, it's worked out way better.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But most people, I know a ton of people, there's not that there's a ton of people on the CDT, but I know a lot of them.

spk_0 And 90, 95% have no idea.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So what are the typical reactions that you get?

spk_0 Um, well, kindness and, you know, care and, you know, empathy, that kind of stuff.

spk_0 And that's great.

spk_0 And I love them for it.

spk_0 And it's all great.

spk_0 Roast me, man.

spk_0 You know, let's just get stupid.

spk_0 Let's laugh.

spk_0 You know, life is, you know, it doesn't matter.

spk_0 You don't have to have cancer to life to, you know, beat the shit out of you.

spk_0 Better start laughing.

spk_0 Uh, or things are going to be a problem.

spk_0 So trail families that I've developed in friendships.

spk_0 You know, the more they're like, do you think you can live through the day?

spk_0 Because this is going to be a long day, you know, they say they're like, oh, yeah.

spk_0 Right?

spk_0 It's like, oh, man, I love you.

spk_0 Thanks, buddy.

spk_0 So much better.

spk_0 I like renews my whole day instead of like, oh, well, you know, I don't want to melodrome and what.

spk_0 I'm out.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, and once they realize that, you know, and I say stuff like, you know, you know, the water source is three tents down this hill.

spk_0 And so if someone's probably going to just take a bunch of bottles instead of everyone going down there.

spk_0 And I was like, I'd go, but my cancer is so bad.

spk_0 They're like, bullshit.

spk_0 Man, you're going, you've gone forever.

spk_0 I thought maybe it worked.

spk_0 So it's just a lot of that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And that's what's important.

spk_0 Because what's important is us, you know, getting through the hike and, you know, kind of keeping eye and shoving backs and chasing town food.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's priorities.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Like most of hackers.

spk_0

spk_0 Do you have any, in addition to just being, I'm sure inspiration for a ton of people with cancer that are probably looking for like physical outlets and something to keep them motivated.

spk_0 Do you have any like specific tips of things that you have to do to make this work?

spk_0 Or is it all just positive mindset?

spk_0 Like are there things that you're doing day to day on trail that are helping you?

spk_0 So far as to make it through the hike.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like I guess related to the cancer.

spk_0 Not really.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Honestly, I don't think about it very much.

spk_0 There was a woman.

spk_0 Well, she's younger than me.

spk_0 I can't remember her name, but she's only PCT.

spk_0 She's, I didn't really know where I kind of knew her, you know, but not really.

spk_0 And she was talking to the three or four of us and over talking about something and she had had a.

spk_0 I think skin cancer like a melanoma.

spk_0 She, but she had it.

spk_0 It occurred like a couple times.

spk_0 And it's on her legs and stuff and she, you know, and we're like, oh, yeah.

spk_0 So she goes, yeah, but it's good.

spk_0 You know, I mean, everything just cut it off.

spk_0 And they, it was bad enough that they, you know, they want to see me every once in a while because it could be something and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

spk_0 And we're like, oh, okay, well, that's good.

spk_0 And she's.

spk_0 Real cool and very smart and just, you know, a person that you listen to.

spk_0 And it was like 10 minutes in that conversation.

spk_0 And I'm like, hey, I have, I have, I just.

spk_0 I never think about it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'm like, oh, that's too bad.

spk_0 You'd be all right.

spk_0 You know, probably I don't know.

spk_0 Hey, wait a minute.

spk_0 I can relate to this.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I just, you've got to think about others.

spk_0 You've got to control your mind.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And.

spk_0 That has nothing to do with through hiking.

spk_0 That's just life.

spk_0 You've got to control your mind.

spk_0 If anything, I think through hiking helps, even though I know we think about a bazillion

spk_0 things.

spk_0 I don't trail about everything.

spk_0 But that's part of it.

spk_0 You're thinking about everything but that at least for me.

spk_0

spk_0 And I think I'm not extraordinary in that.

spk_0 But I think everybody kind of, you know, thinks like that.

spk_0 I think.

spk_0 Have you always had such a good control of your mindset or is it?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 When I was younger, I ruminated on things.

spk_0 I worried about things.

spk_0 I, you know, dwelled in the past.

spk_0 I worried about the future.

spk_0 That's just self-centered anybody.

spk_0 My day to day.

spk_0

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Well, you know, people say he's like, well, you know, there's only regret in the past and anxiety

spk_0 in the future.

spk_0 The only piece is right now.

spk_0 It's like, well, that sounds right.

spk_0 But, you know, how do we do it?

spk_0 You know, and I was getting better at it because I was tired of my life and the grind

spk_0 that it was.

spk_0 I was getting better.

spk_0 Cancer helped me focus it.

spk_0 And because I had to, I had to make that decision to stay as president as I could.

spk_0 And hiking keeps you very present.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, and that's probably the biggest help of through hiking is it keeps you present, which

spk_0 keeps you present.

spk_0

spk_0 Would you say that overall you're just in a better mindset today than you were maybe three,

spk_0 four years before the cancer?

spk_0 I'm happier now than I've ever been in my whole life.

spk_0 For sure.

spk_0 That's awesome.

spk_0 I wish I didn't have cancer.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Again, bear.

spk_0 You know those days where your hike turns into a sprint trying to juggle work, household

spk_0 responsibilities, and hit the trail with the requisite gear.

spk_0 Somewhere in that chaos, eating something decent usually takes a back seat.

spk_0 It's easy to grab some pre-trail grub that's a gut bomb and completely void of nutrition.

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spk_0 Okay, so finish the PCT next to the doctor.

spk_0 You say fail tests.

spk_0 You've got the thing removed.

spk_0 Is the conversation with the doctor the same.

spk_0 He's like, when's the CDT?

spk_0 He knows exactly what's going on.

spk_0 Yeah, he knew that the CDT was next.

spk_0 He knows the whole timeline and he's like, I'm southbound on the, and he goes, I go,

spk_0 we start like over two months later.

spk_0 He goes, oh, okay.

spk_0 Because we're used to April 4th.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And April 4th, 18, April 4th, PCT.

spk_0 The reason that is obviously it's a good time to start those.

spk_0 But it also mimics that first commino that I did in 2018 was on April 4th, 2018.

spk_0 So, and my birthday is in April.

spk_0 So that's three birthdays I got to spend on trail, which is pretty fun.

spk_0 Nice.

spk_0 I go, no, we have like an extra two and a half months because I'm going southbound and

spk_0 he goes, oh, okay.

spk_0 So you have recovery time from this.

spk_0 They're like, yeah, I'm good.

spk_0 And I got to go back to trail days in 20 this year, you know, in May.

spk_0 So I got to go back to that.

spk_0 That was fun.

spk_0 I thought it was important, you know, with all the devastation from Haleen.

spk_0 And I thought it was important.

spk_0 There's a bunch of people from 23 that decided to kind of go and be together and spread some

spk_0 money around just to kind of do what little we could, you know, they're too special.

spk_0 So in addition to the offseason chemo, is there anything that you have to do to read

spk_0 your body?

spk_0 Like are you intentionally putting on weight or like what does your offseason look like?

spk_0 I'm trying not to put on weight.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because the weight you put on between it through, like, you know, it's super fast.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And it's nothing.

spk_0 So it's just dead weight that comes off super fast.

spk_0 But in those first six weeks that you dropped that weight that you gained in the off season.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 He just had to hike with it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Just take an extra.

spk_0 It's just like, Hey, why don't you just take extra clothes?

spk_0 You don't need extra.

spk_0 You just take them.

spk_0 You shouldn't back weeks.

spk_0 So no.

spk_0 And I don't train.

spk_0 Well, the thing about train is literally I will be in chemo.

spk_0 You know, the first two, 18 PCT is like within three to four weeks.

spk_0 I mean, back.

spk_0 I'm so lethargic and I, you know, take a couple of naps a day, sleep a solid.

spk_0 10 hours a night.

spk_0 If I clean my house, I have to do one room and then stop hang out on the couch for a while

spk_0 and do another one.

spk_0 I'm in an all day deal.

spk_0

spk_0 Just, you know, you just so training.

spk_0 So training.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So I just get out there and just let the trail, you know, beat the shit out of me for four

spk_0 to six weeks.

spk_0 And then I'm ready to go.

spk_0 So what was the decision to go south out on this one?

spk_0 I, you know, I don't read everything and follow everybody, you know, I try to kind of

spk_0 glimpse at people and, you know, since I had the YouTube, someone told me, so try and

spk_0 find somebody that's kind of a different generation on both sides of you and kind of look

spk_0 at some of their videos because they see stuff that they're going through the same things,

spk_0 but they see things a little differently.

spk_0 Just out of their eyes and that was great advice because that's very true.

spk_0 What they decided is important is different.

spk_0 And but through watching them, one thing they did have in common, it didn't matter how

spk_0 far their age was in the deal, is they all liked Sobo because it was a little bit bigger

spk_0 weather window.

spk_0 And so I thought that made a lot of sense.

spk_0 So that's what I decided.

spk_0 That's what made me decide to do it.

spk_0 And I could end in New Mexico, which I have family in New Mexico.

spk_0 I spend some time with them and kind of, yeah.

spk_0 What's the buzz on the trail with the new news about the Southern Terminus?

spk_0 It's not good.

spk_0 I just got this three days ago or whatever it was, three or four days ago.

spk_0 I'm really disappointed with that.

spk_0 A lot of reason is one thing for us, US citizens, when I fly domestically, I have the real

spk_0 ID on your license where it has a thing, so TSA.

spk_0 So whatever that deal, that should be good enough for us.

spk_0 But for four nationals that have come over here, I know two people from Japan, I know four

spk_0 Germans, three Danes, a Brit who I was like I was with for a while.

spk_0 She's a little head, she's in China.

spk_0 And they really, you think we put our lives on.

spk_0 They and fly over and they have to go through a lengthy process for that six month visa

spk_0 and really have to provide a tremendous amount of documentation.

spk_0 I feel probably more than you need to, the documentation you need to provide for, you know,

spk_0 making that last one point one mile to the terminus that they've closed off.

spk_0 But they are not allowed to do it.

spk_0 It doesn't matter what they come up with.

spk_0 I think their visas should work.

spk_0 I don't know, you know, I'm in a group tax with a billion people and everybody's saying

spk_0 a lot of different things.

spk_0 And a couple of things that I thought were a good idea is I don't know how much it

spk_0 matters.

spk_0 Just all of none of us go to the terminus and we just stand together with our fellow

spk_0 hikers from across the ocean that have made even a bigger sacrifice to get here.

spk_0 So we all just finished together.

spk_0 And it's only one mile.

spk_0 I mean, although, you know, I can probably, I don't know if I can ever come back.

spk_0 I really would like my picture with a term from a silver standpoint.

spk_0 So hopefully we won't do that.

spk_0 But are, are, you know, the CDC, maybe I would, you know, if I was in charge of that,

spk_0 I would probably have, I don't care if I had to pay for it myself somehow, I just have

spk_0 a, like, a really cool life-sized replica of the monument and just drive it to six inches

spk_0 from that line and put it down and take a picture for everyone and make sure that everyone

spk_0 got their certificate of completion from us.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's what I would do.

spk_0

spk_0 Have you applied for the permit?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 No, I just, I've been busy, you know, logistically in the last three days to get everything going

spk_0 there.

spk_0 But I was, there's a couple of people that I was hiking with, one of which I hiked within

spk_0 around and we, we talk a lot of, he was on the PCT with last year too.

spk_0 And he shows the pictures.

spk_0 You get your whole, a new whole ID for this defense ID.

spk_0 He applied for it and within under 24 hours, he got it approved and got the thing.

spk_0 So it's, I mean, there's, how many CDT hikers are there?

spk_0 I mean, it couldn't be take very long, but that's not the point.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 I just, I don't know.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 I don't think the army really wants to do this either, you know.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 I just don't, I don't get it.

spk_0 I'm traveling from United States to the United States.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, I might be oversimplifying it, but.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Do you see there, is there a vibe on trail of people being like, we'll just do it anyway?

spk_0 There's no way that they could possibly have people at every mile of the border.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because I feel like if I weren't from here and I was mid-hike and I got that news, I'd

spk_0 be like, I'm going to fucking rescue it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 There's a, there's a couple of people that have, I've heard, they said, well, I'm just

spk_0 going to go anyway and then a bunch of people is like, don't do that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because they start going over all the penalties of stuff and I don't want anybody getting

spk_0 trouble either.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, could they make it?

spk_0 Probably.

spk_0 I mean, they don't have the, but that's not, you know, but that one person, is that worth

spk_0 it?

spk_0 You know, I don't know.

spk_0 And you know, I try to, I know this is different, but, you know, all the rules of whether

spk_0 we're in state parks or national parks or whatever the case may be.

spk_0 I try to adhere to everything, the very, every permit, I, you know, you know, I think it's

spk_0 important because who knows?

spk_0 You know, it's like, what's it guys like a thru-hiker?

spk_0 Yeah, that's probably how they all, I don't want to, I don't want to be that guy that,

spk_0 you know, ruins the whole community.

spk_0 So maybe, but there are, there is rumblings about that, but with every one rumbling, there's

spk_0 five people say, don't.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And they start, they start rallying off.

spk_0 You know, two years in prison, you know, whatever fine, you know, this, that and the other.

spk_0 So, so I don't know what the, this is so recent.

spk_0 And so new.

spk_0 I don't know what the solution is, but it's just disappointing that there has to be a solution.

spk_0 Yeah, just, I don't know, I'm proud of our country and I'm definitely proud of our, the

spk_0 triple crown of trails and all the parks and all the Rangers and everybody that's affiliated

spk_0 with all of those and it's a point of pride.

spk_0 And I just, I don't know, I just feel like it's very unfortunate.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 How has this trail compared to the other two for you?

spk_0 You know, it's, it's kind of in between, you know, it's weird geographically how they

spk_0 are, A T and the PCT being the kind of the book ends and the CDT being in the middle and

spk_0 it feels like it's the middle.

spk_0 You know, it looks, you know, and kind of moves more like the PCT, but the mentality is more

spk_0 like the A T in what way?

spk_0 Just more gangster, you know.

spk_0 You know, I think the PCT is probably the most beautiful thing I've hiked through, but

spk_0 it's also, you know, it's not softer because it's hard, especially for me, you know, everything's

spk_0 tough for me.

spk_0 And, but it's just, I don't know, it's gangster.

spk_0 I don't know, the A T and the CDT are just, you know, people mean business, you know,

spk_0 you can just, you can read the far out comment difference between the A T and the PCT.

spk_0 The PCT is a lot of existential thoughts.

spk_0 The A T is like three tenths, turn left.

spk_0 You'll see a big tree.

spk_0 There's a dog pet dog three times and move along.

spk_0 You know, it's like, okay, you know, and you can follow that exactly.

spk_0 And, you know, so it's, I don't know, is that makes sense?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Um, I'm not used to people comparing the A T and CDT to being together.

spk_0 I'm used to people probably more putting the CDT with the PCT, so that's a little different.

spk_0 Because they look a lot, a lot.

spk_0 You know, the things that you go through, glacier, national, which you start with is unbelievable.

spk_0 I think the wins was my favorite of the CDT and like, circuit the towers, you know, that's

spk_0 really, that's sort of the towers was great.

spk_0 But it has, it's not the same as the PCT, like the Sierra's and stuff, but it, like a

spk_0 saying I, from when I was a kid, they're not the same product, but they can be found on

spk_0 the same aisle and store.

spk_0

spk_0 The A T is like a different aisle.

spk_0 Well, it's, it's in the back where they sell the dail, doughnuts kind of a thing, you

spk_0 know.

spk_0 But, I don't know, the A T is just, I think there's a better sense of community on the

spk_0 A T and just kind of as a punk rock feel to it.

spk_0 And, you know, there's more towns and, you know, and, and there's everyone so much more

spk_0 aware of on the A T, like the people that are on the A T go, we know what you need, you

spk_0 know, and just stuff and, and whether's worse for some reason, even though it's so much

spk_0 lower and you hit rain and then everyone's trying to go, it's like, well, it's coming.

spk_0 We get, you know, you have cell service so you can look at the radar and go, it's going

spk_0 to hit us and it's five miles to that shelter.

spk_0 Or that other shelter we left is nine tents behind us, just go backwards and go and you

spk_0 go and then some people are racing three miles, you know, north to get to the same thing.

spk_0 Then you hang out, where have you been, you know, and just, and then you hang out in

spk_0 the shelter all night and it creates, you know.

spk_0 I don't know what's the word.

spk_0 Not community, but just, it seems like you're more battle fatigued together on the A T.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Makes sense.

spk_0 What was, what have the social dynamics been like on the CVT?

spk_0 Did you form a hiking family right away?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, well, the thing is there's so many variables to everything.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So when I started in Glacier, there was a couple of people who I really, really like

spk_0 a gone and droopy, they were coming in it.

spk_0 We were on the A T and 23 together.

spk_0 And so when they were coming, I was excited and we, I had gotten through Glacier, but they

spk_0 got there a few days late.

spk_0 So they were going through and I said, well, just, you know, catch up and, and I was going

spk_0 through the Bob Marshall and they're fast.

spk_0 So they caught up and we hike together for a little bit.

spk_0 And then the red lying went and then there's the big sky, alternate.

spk_0 And I have no, at this point, I have no, my rule was to not have any preconceived deal

spk_0 when I get to a section, whatever I think or whatever wind blows, whatever to me that

spk_0 day.

spk_0 I'm going to do that.

spk_0 Meet some people and we're going to go this way.

spk_0 Yeah, just go with you guys.

spk_0 And I was going to the Lama Ranch at the beginning and I met some people that were

spk_0 on like a little weekend hike and they watched my channel and they said, Hey, we knew

spk_0 you'd be running around here.

spk_0 And I started talking to them and I didn't go to the Lama Ranch.

spk_0 I just hiked 16 miles with them and just camped with them and just hung out.

spk_0 You know, I think these people are just wandering in here for a reason.

spk_0 So let's just go.

spk_0 And it was a bunch of climbing.

spk_0 I shouldn't went to the Lama Ranch.

spk_0 But so, yeah, so I took off with them and then we split and there was a couple of really

spk_0 cool Danish folks, people that had done the PC2 together and I think 22 and they're going

spk_0 to go to the base guy and we've downloaded the thing.

spk_0 If you want to go with us and they say, I go, what's the deal?

spk_0 I go, and they started explaining to me.

spk_0 I go, yeah, I'm okay.

spk_0 So I went and then the others went the other way and they were comparing pictures and I

spk_0 made the right choice.

spk_0 And so you do that and then, but I've hiked with like four or five little groups, but

spk_0 everybody's, there isn't the same amount of people that you guys know on the PCT and the

spk_0 AT that they're the CG's so much smaller.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So we're all talking.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And we have a common thread that there's got to be 40, 50 people on.

spk_0 And so that and you know, Instagram and stuff.

spk_0 So everybody kind of knows and I had people just pop into Pagosora at last day and I have

spk_0 a rental car now.

spk_0 So to get here and and so it's like able to get them, you know, give them a ride and so

spk_0 I know them from the beginning.

spk_0 So it's so that parts good.

spk_0 The PCT seems like if you don't, if you lose somebody that's they're just gone forever.

spk_0 I mean, maybe that was just, but my trail family on that was we were eight.

spk_0 We ended up with eight.

spk_0 So that was the biggest and we're all still in touch.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Eight for how long?

spk_0 Almost all of it.

spk_0 We actually started with seven.

spk_0 We were in seven deep pretty much by I think just north of Idle while and then we had

spk_0 configured something we went down to six and then we went back to eight.

spk_0 So or went up to eight and then we we were eight through I think almost all of Oregon

spk_0 in Washington and we come into a campsite with people and about that time you know

spk_0 everyone kind of faces around you at least a day or front or behind and they go, hey,

spk_0 what are you all doing?

spk_0 But I could see in there I was like, fuck, you can't go mad.

spk_0 Cause there's so many tents.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You could see I'm like, well, you know, is there enough room?

spk_0 Cause we were thinking about going a little further, which we weren't.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 No, you we can make it.

spk_0 Are you sure?

spk_0 I mean, again, I wore a lot.

spk_0 You know, I tried it.

spk_0 You know, easy, easy down.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, I'm just still chances requisite question.

spk_0 Unless you want to take it, you know, I'm going.

spk_0 No.

spk_0 ATPCT, C-D-T, fuck Mary Kill.

spk_0 Oh, God.

spk_0 Lord.

spk_0 Oh, no.

spk_0 Well, I think I think the PCT is too beautiful and you don't want the beauty to fade.

spk_0 So you marry her.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 You know, now you fucked the AT and you just go ahead and it's a, you know, it's too

spk_0 bad.

spk_0 Just because it's the third is the last of the party.

spk_0 You just killed the C-D-T.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Part two, you've done three communas.

spk_0 Uh huh.

spk_0 So now same thing, but with the communas.

spk_0 Ooh.

spk_0 I think you marry the North day.

spk_0 It's the most beautiful.

spk_0 You run along the coast.

spk_0 Uh, there and you go through like Santa Bastion and Santander and Bill Bell.

spk_0 I went to the good bill out the Google.

spk_0 I took a day off of Bill Bell and did that.

spk_0 It's just, it just never ends with the beauty.

spk_0 Um, yeah, fuck the Francis.

spk_0 I'm probably going to, that might be the one I redo.

spk_0 The main route to Santesta.

spk_0 That's the old established route.

spk_0 And Portuguese is too short.

spk_0 I did the spiritual variant which I added today.

spk_0 So kill it.

spk_0 What about you wants to redo the Francis?

spk_0 Um, well, it was kind of my plan when I did the 2020, when I did the idea to, if I could

spk_0 make it to 2028, which I'll be 60 in 2028, um, for my 60th birth.

spk_0 I'd like to go over and do, um, I might do the Dolomites or something like that, but I'm

spk_0 going to end.

spk_0 I'm going to get back to San John Peter Poor France to the beginning of the communal

spk_0 Francis where it started in 2018.

spk_0 And I want to invite all my favorite people from every high cup, done from 2018 to that

spk_0 point, PCTAT, whatever.

spk_0 This one and, uh, open invite to meet me there.

spk_0 And we all take off on April 4th.

spk_0 And, uh, when I, when we ride in the Santiago together, whatever 32 days, 30, hopefully, we'll

spk_0 screw around.

spk_0 So maybe it'd be 35 days.

spk_0 And then, uh, that's it.

spk_0 I'm retired from the through hiking.

spk_0 You retired.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I can do section hikes after that.

spk_0 You know, I can, uh, I know a million people in the hiking world now.

spk_0 And whenever I see a friend on something real cool, um, you know, I can go out and, you

spk_0 know, hike 150, maybe 200 miles with them and get to spend time with them.

spk_0 Got to get to enjoy my favorite part of a trail and, uh, hopefully, I have a car and maybe

spk_0 I can slack them a little bit or at the end and, uh, and that'll be it.

spk_0 So I'll still get to do it.

spk_0 But I'm just going to see what, if I can, if I make it to that far, I'll just see what

spk_0 else life has to go and just move to the next chapter.

spk_0 Hmm.

spk_0 There those two be lots of travel and adventure and things like that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 If it seems like obviously you're loving the backpacking now, why the planned retirement,

spk_0 just a new chapter.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, I don't want to hold on.

spk_0 I think it's dangerous to hold on to anything that you're doing too long.

spk_0 You know, um, anything that, uh, any profession that I hold value enough, this is a profession,

spk_0 but kind of, um, it's whatever you're doing.

spk_0 I think you climb and climb and climb and then you kind of hit kind of a sweet spot where

spk_0 you're, and you're the shit.

spk_0 And then you start to go, you know, I'm 57 now, you know, I'm carrying this, you know,

spk_0 the cancer that and just everything going, I mean, even if, even if I, this wasn't my

spk_0 plan, it should be, you know.

spk_0 I mean, just let's focus.

spk_0 No, there's like nobody everyone I hike with is like the next old person's like 34, you

spk_0 know, everybody's 20s and 30s.

spk_0 So that should tell you something, you know, and, um, I think I'll be, well, I think

spk_0 I'll have a good fat resume at that point and that should be enough.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I need to explore other things in life.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And try to back backing and hiking will always be there and always trying, there's cool places

spk_0 I want to go.

spk_0 So I can always still, you know, do cool things.

spk_0 It may not be a through hike, but really cool things that, that I'm exploring and I still

spk_0 have stuff to, you know, I can film it and put it on YouTube and so other people can

spk_0 see that if we'll enjoy this stuff can go, oh, that's cool.

spk_0 It would be Egypt or whatever the case may be.

spk_0 Speaking of YouTube, walk me through the importance of documenting these journeys.

spk_0 Did you start with the AT?

spk_0 No, I started, I started with the, the, when I got out of cancer and are pretty much

spk_0 and I decided to go back, I missed that first AT window and I decided to go back and do

spk_0 the Portuguese and the North day back to back.

spk_0 I decided I was going to do the YouTube.

spk_0 Uh, hindsight, I don't know if I would.

spk_0 Yeah, because, you know, let you, I try to be as real time as I can be.

spk_0 So a lot of times at the end of the day, I'm super tired and I'm usually more tired than

spk_0 other people, but I'm in my tent trying to edit and stuff and people are like, I don't

spk_0 know why I should do that.

spk_0 I'm just a little stupid.

spk_0 How do you do that?

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 I don't know if I made a good decision.

spk_0 But then I always look back and I feel as a great, when I'm not doing anymore, it's a

spk_0 great decision.

spk_0 And I'm very happy with it and and proud to do it.

spk_0 But that was the decision I made then and it's turned out real well.

spk_0 But I don't know.

spk_0 You mentioned people that watched the channel came up and met up with you and the CDC has

spk_0 been happening quite a bit on other trails as well.

spk_0 On other trails, yeah, there's not that many people on this trail.

spk_0 So I don't see everyone's all bump into somebody.

spk_0 The PCT was kind of a lot.

spk_0 I had a lot for me.

spk_0 I mean, not somebody that's like super like 100,000 people on YouTube, not that person.

spk_0 But I had people that were like, hey, you know, and I was just watching.

spk_0 And it's like, you know, but those people were just, I think I had released day one of

spk_0 the CDT, like day four into it.

spk_0 And I started on 13th of June.

spk_0 So I'm pretty early because they told me they said, you're the very first person that

spk_0 we've seen a video of the 25 CDT so far.

spk_0 So I think that's why I had some people early on.

spk_0 So they were just, they lived right around there.

spk_0 Yeah, just goofing around.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It's like even seeing some moose.

spk_0 The most recent one.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, I'll tell you, it's funny.

spk_0 I've never seen a moose before.

spk_0 So the AT, they told me once you get north, especially Maine, you're definitely going

spk_0 to see moose.

spk_0 I'm like, gosh, awesome.

spk_0 I can't wait.

spk_0 Well, I never saw moose.

spk_0 And I'd get into, you know, an AT, you maybe hiking alone, but everyone's kind of going

spk_0 for the same one or two spots.

spk_0 You get in and so I'm seeing 10 people that I know.

spk_0 And they're talking about all the moose they've seen.

spk_0 They've teaching moose to ride bicycles and everything else.

spk_0 And I go, I didn't see any.

spk_0 And they're like showing me pictures.

spk_0 And I always, one of those is the bear.

spk_0 Hold on bear, bear, bear, bear.

spk_0 Here's moose.

spk_0 I didn't see bears.

spk_0 I've seen bears at that point, but not like them and everybody.

spk_0 So I never saw a moose.

spk_0 And then the PCT, they said, well, when you get in Washington, you could see moose and

spk_0 went to nothing.

spk_0 And so the CDT, I saw my very first moose Rocky Mountain National Park, not Montana,

spk_0 and nowhere.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So it's good.

spk_0 You got your moose experience?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Now I see moose all the time.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Once you break the seals, it's kind of like that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I've seen, I don't know, I've probably had six, seven days of that had moose involvement.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 And you mentioned that you're in pagosa right now.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Are you looking forward to being in New Mexico?

spk_0 I know you had mentioned that that's where your mom's at.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And you had spent a lot of time desert hiking.

spk_0 Is there a lot of sentimental value in the last stretch?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'm originally from Southern Oklahoma.

spk_0 I lived a long time in Texas.

spk_0 And so New Mexico is just next door.

spk_0 So I've spent a lot of my, you know, long time.

spk_0 I really learned to ski in New Mexico when I was a kid.

spk_0 So New Mexico is real special to me.

spk_0 And I've always felt a kinship to it.

spk_0 So I feel like when I'm there, when I'm going.

spk_0 And so she wants to get south of Chalman, it kind of flattens out.

spk_0 I feel like I'm just going to kind of fly.

spk_0 And I feel like I'm kind of, you know, there's those places in the world that just feel like home.

spk_0 New Mexico's always had kind of a home feel.

spk_0 So I feel like I'm getting to home field.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 You mentioned that 2028 is the Camino victory lap.

spk_0 What do you've got planning between?

spk_0 Next year, I'm hoping to do this career 88, the Japan 88 temple.

spk_0 Uh-huh.

spk_0 And then for 27, I have the terror on my list.

spk_0 Nice.

spk_0 I mean, up until basically the end of the PCT, I was extremely rigid with this schedule.

spk_0 The schedule was, you know, dear to me from where I started to make it at.

spk_0 And I held on with a death grip.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And it's really been just this last year in this hike.

spk_0 That's like, you know what?

spk_0 If something comes up and you switch things around a little bit and maybe do this one here into.

spk_0 That's fine.

spk_0 Just let it go.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Keeping your heart open to other possibilities.

spk_0 I am.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, I mean, once you get the triple crown, you've checked that off.

spk_0 You've got.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 The whole world is your oyster.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think I can let off the gas of smidge.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Um, but can I?

spk_0 Is it tough for you in the off season?

spk_0 Because obviously your off season is more challenging than the average person's off season for obvious reasons.

spk_0 Like, yeah, I mean, it is, but it's my.

spk_0 It's my life, though, now.

spk_0 So I mean, I just, it's my, my new normal is weird, but it's still normal for me.

spk_0 So it's not really any different.

spk_0 I still have, you know, one thing about it is you come off and trail depression is a real thing.

spk_0 And usually that's way and heavy and it takes kind of the steam off of whatever test I just flunked.

spk_0 You know, probably what I'm doing.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Wish I could stop eating donuts to I'm not hiking at all.

spk_0 So, but yeah, it's tough.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Um, but, you know, I'm super lucky.

spk_0 And I know that, and I always feel like, well, if I can just get to the next hike, I usually get the next one.

spk_0 You know, I can, I can at least make it, you know, and then whatever the next test is, whatever I'm here now, I can go.

spk_0 Someone listening to this, let's say they've gotten a recent cancer diagnosis.

spk_0 Is there one thing that you'd like to pass along to them?

spk_0 Um, I don't know.

spk_0 You know, it's it.

spk_0 It's really honestly, it is what I said at the beginning.

spk_0 Keep your mind clear.

spk_0 Don't read stuff.

spk_0 Don't let anyone close to you.

spk_0 Start because everybody around you reads everything.

spk_0 And then they want to tell you, and then you told them not to tell you, but they still kind of will sort of just mention something.

spk_0 You're gonna say, look, man, if you're going to start talking about this, we just can't talk.

spk_0 I mean, I got to, you know, I'm in this deal.

spk_0 I got to get to the end. I can't be doing this.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, we got to, you know, laugh.

spk_0 You know, stay laughing. Stay focused.

spk_0 Follow your, you know, control what you can control, which is same thing for everything.

spk_0 You know, when I was in the midst of everything and really bad, I could control nothing.

spk_0 Nothing was under my control.

spk_0 But I can make sure I was five to ten minutes early for every single appointment.

spk_0 And come in and make sure I'm smiling because these chemo nurses and stuff, their life sucks.

spk_0 You know, because people die all the time and everything.

spk_0 And I come in and I can remember names and I could, I could make an effort to remember the last thing we talked about, their kids in school or whatever.

spk_0 But, you know, just talk about that.

spk_0 That's what I found I could control is I could make their crap job of being a chemo nurse just a little easier with me.

spk_0 That takes your mind off of you.

spk_0 That's the only thing I can really tell you.

spk_0

spk_0 That's powerful.

spk_0 Do you have anything else you want to?

spk_0 No, I think that's a great place to.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, the requisite sponsor question, stay salty questions and by element, user code drink elementy.com slash trek for a free sample pack with your order.

spk_0 Do you have a hot take in the world of backpacking or the outdoors at large?

spk_0 A hot take.

spk_0 Focus me a little.

spk_0 And either unpopular opinion or just something you feel very strongly about that maybe other people aren't talking about or just like.

spk_0 Yeah, like if you had like a 30 second Ted talk on anything that you've done related to through hiking, what would you convey?

spk_0 Second breakfast.

spk_0 Yeah, love that.

spk_0 First breakfast.

spk_0 Don't get out of your tent when it's cold.

spk_0 Just do it in the vestibule.

spk_0 I drink like a crummy couple not crummy, but just a moderate cup of coffee.

spk_0 And kind of like a bar for first breakfast.

spk_0 And then second breakfast is about 10, 10, 30.

spk_0 And I have a fancy Starbucks coffee with like a some quarter of a double chocolate chocolate chip muffin.

spk_0 Love that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 What is the crummy coffee?

spk_0 Like not crummy, but like I don't want to I don't want to ruin all my endorsements.

spk_0 But I don't have.

spk_0 Yeah, shout out to Folgers.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Well, that would I don't go that far down.

spk_0 But like crummy coffee that I like.

spk_0 I don't mean crummy.

spk_0 I just mean not necessarily Italian roast.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 The get you out of bed coffee.

spk_0 Cafe Bustella.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 It's pretty good.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, I like it.

spk_0 It's not as good as Italian roast.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 I'm getting messages that it's great.

spk_0 Well, you know what?

spk_0 You're really turning me around here.

spk_0 Maybe I misspoke.

spk_0 I mean, I've never had it.

spk_0 I'm just scanning the room.

spk_0 Oh, okay.

spk_0 Well, yeah.

spk_0 Well, not everybody.

spk_0 Not everybody's with us.

spk_0 But if Cafe Bustella wants to, you know, help me, I will do away with the other day.

spk_0 It will move up to the top rank spot.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I guess before we wrap, what's the story behind the trail name Long Strides?

spk_0 Well, you know, I'm kind of tall and I have pretty, I'm pretty long-legged.

spk_0 So everybody thinks that's it.

spk_0 And I don't really.

spk_0 I was like, yeah, man, cool.

spk_0 I just let it go.

spk_0 But it really came out at the beginning.

spk_0 Because there's no trail names on the Caminos.

spk_0 So when I started the AT, I knew that you could get a trail name.

spk_0 But I didn't want to give myself, which I like, someone needs to give you your trail name.

spk_0 Everyone's telling you meet someone you know, they give them a terminator.

spk_0 And some of that.

spk_0 I got it, brother.

spk_0 You know, yeah.

spk_0 I saw it.

spk_0 I hope you're out of that water crossing, but you have terminator.

spk_0 I got you, you know, I'm going to.

spk_0 So I thought, well, whatever somebody gives me, I'm running with it, you know.

spk_0 Day one.

spk_0 I did the approach trail.

spk_0 I did the, you know, up the stairs, the falls.

spk_0 And then I did the eight mile approach trail hindsight.

spk_0 I shouldn't have been.

spk_0 I should just run.

spk_0 You know, those two of us will beat up.

spk_0 And I meet a guy that's like, I'm two miles maybe, probably a mile and a half in.

spk_0 And he was.

spk_0 He said, I don't know.

spk_0 He looked like he was a, like a drill sergeant in the army.

spk_0 And he's just like, hey, hey, you know, and just, you know, and haircut and just the outfit, just everything.

spk_0 And he was on the hike too.

spk_0 And he goes, you go in the 80s.

spk_0 Yeah, he goes, you start today, right?

spk_0 I go, yeah, I'm.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 You know, and he goes, it's me too.

spk_0 Me too, you know, and super nice guy.

spk_0 Just as nice can be.

spk_0 He goes, well, you know, where are you from?

spk_0 It's normal to jet.

spk_0 And he goes, he goes, where are you going?

spk_0 Are you going all the way?

spk_0 I go, you know, that's the plan all the way.

spk_0 You know, Mt. Katad.

spk_0 And he goes, me too, man, me too.

spk_0 And I said, and it's like on a Tuesday or whatever way.

spk_0 I go.

spk_0 I said, you know, probably, probably Sunday, probably get there, you know, and he starts laugh a little.

spk_0 And I go, I'm not ridiculous.

spk_0 I'm going to use long strides, but Sunday sounds right.

spk_0 And he just kind of looks at me like, stupid.

spk_0 And he goes, but he goes, and that's how you get your trail name.

spk_0 Good to meet you long strides.

spk_0 And off he went.

spk_0 And I never saw him again.

spk_0 That's kind of a stupid.

spk_0 Now, I don't want to be that.

spk_0 But then I also don't want to be, you know, I don't want someone to go, yeah, I'm.

spk_0 Yeah, your trail name's stupid.

spk_0 I don't want that either.

spk_0 So I get, I don't make it to that first day.

spk_0 I can't make it all the way to springer.

spk_0 So I camp that spot right before whatever that thing is, big bear or something.

spk_0 And so I go up the next day.

spk_0 And there's this real nice couple of this guy and gal that are like, I don't know, like 30-ish.

spk_0 They're just kind of day hiking around there.

spk_0 And I pull that little ledger out.

spk_0 The sign that's springer.

spk_0 And I'm just kind of sitting next to I think, if I write down long strides, that's it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, I can't do that.

spk_0 I go, oh, I don't want something.

spk_0 I want to tell the terminator, you know?

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 So, and I'm kind of talking to them.

spk_0 And I was like, I don't know what to write.

spk_0 And I kind of told them that story.

spk_0 And they're like, that's an awesome name.

spk_0 I love long strides.

spk_0 It's great.

spk_0 Your ladies are pretty long.

spk_0 Just people right now go, no, if I can.

spk_0 Oh, write it down.

spk_0 So I wrote down that.

spk_0 That's it.

spk_0 Literally, it's like legally binding contract at that point.

spk_0

spk_0 I think it is, like maybe judge duty level legally binding.

spk_0 But it's still legally binding.

spk_0 Long strides.

spk_0 Thank you so much for joining us here in Backpacked Radio.

spk_0 Your story is very inspiring.

spk_0 Where should people go to keep up with you?

spk_0 Obviously, plug your Instagram and YouTube and anything else.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, you can just pull my name.

spk_0 It's Jeff Von Vi.

spk_0 Von Vi's V-O-N-V-A-I, all one word.

spk_0 And I think someone told me that if you pull long strides,

spk_0 it pulls one of them up.

spk_0 But just Jeff Von Vi's the easiest way.

spk_0 There's only one of them.

spk_0 So it goes right to it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But, yeah, anything.

spk_0 And if anybody, you know, has a question about anything,

spk_0 just message me.

spk_0 Cool.

spk_0 Thank you so much for joining us here in Backpacked Radio.

spk_0 Yeah. Thanks for having me, you guys are awesome.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 To the Trek Propaganda portion of today's show.

spk_0 Got a couple of things to do.

spk_0 I think we're going to have a couple of articles.

spk_0 First one, I think we kind of covered during the interview itself.

spk_0 CDT hikers, US citizenship Army Permit now required access.

spk_0 Southern terminus, obviously very big news.

spk_0 Not only just for the CDT, but it's a through hiking and kind of the world at large.

spk_0 Access to the CDT Southern terminus now requires US citizenship

spk_0 and an Army issued permit after more than 100,000 acres near the Mexico border

spk_0 were transferred to military control.

spk_0 The new national defense area includes the Southern 1.1 miles of the trail

spk_0 making entry without authorization of federal offense.

spk_0 In response, the CDTC has rerouted its shuttle to stop north of the restricted zone

spk_0 while helping hikers navigate the new permit process.

spk_0 And as Jeff mentioned, he's seen people get the permit pretty quickly.

spk_0 That's been kind of what I've been seeing online as well.

spk_0 Obviously that doesn't do anything for you if you're not from the US.

spk_0 So, um, just fucking sucks.

spk_0 I don't know what else to say.

spk_0

spk_0 And do a two for today.

spk_0 Highly this one, new contributor.

spk_0 How I hike the CT Colorado Trail for less than a thousand dollars.

spk_0 Again, new contributor, Moonbeam, which is James, our social guys partner,

spk_0 completed the 485 mile Colorado Trail in 31 days on a budget of just $774

spk_0 and 59 cents averaging under $25 per day.

spk_0 Some of the tips outlined in the article include using credit card points for travel,

spk_0 minimizing town days and restaurant spending, and leaving heavily on a hiker box

spk_0 resupplies. Here's a quote from the article that I eat questionable cast off homemade meals.

spk_0 Yes, including one from a zip lock bag that said chicken does not rehydrate

spk_0 where I intermittently spit out small chicken pieces that resembled pebbles.

spk_0 There were also some good finds such as when someone's hiking partner dropped out

spk_0 and I got an entire resupply for free and twin lakes,

spk_0 chocolate full of anis, mac and cheese, couscous creations, and cliff bars

spk_0 to get the full rundown on how to hike the CT for less than a thousand bucks,

spk_0 less than a thousand comfortably.

spk_0 Link will be in the shot.

spk_0 Cool.

spk_0 Question of the day.

spk_0 If I got arrested, what crime would you assume I committed?

spk_0 I was a little torn on the proverbial eye in this question.

spk_0 Is that me? Is that you? Is that Rachel?

spk_0 We answer it for each other.

spk_0 If I were to get arrested, what do you think I would get arrested for?

spk_0 And if you were to get arrested, what do I think you would get arrested for?

spk_0 I think yours is easy.

spk_0 Me, really?

spk_0

spk_0 What am I getting arrested for?

spk_0 Tax evasion.

spk_0 What?

spk_0 Because you, it seems like you not intentionally.

spk_0 Yeah, like IRS don't listen to this.

spk_0 I feel like especially earlier on in the backpacker radio run,

spk_0 you get stressed out about the tax stuff,

spk_0 and I could just see you like skipping out on doing it all together.

spk_0 No, see, I think I think if anything, I'm the least likely to get arrested for that,

spk_0 because it's stressed me out so much that I never like want to have to deal with it.

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 In a way.

spk_0 That last sentence is what I'm leaving out here is not to want to have to do it.

spk_0 Yeah, but that means you do everything perfect so that you never had to have to deal with anything bad.

spk_0 Yeah, just saying if someone's like,

spk_0 John's went down because she just won your,

spk_0 no, I don't know.

spk_0 Put her foot down the way that you're talking about, like, you know what?

spk_0 I'm just going to march the 1.1 miles out of the terminus is.

spk_0 I was just saying I could see people thinking that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 No, I don't think that would be me because I think that I get a IRS.

spk_0 Yeah, no.

spk_0 I think I would be too scared to break the rules because I would be afraid of having that dread.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Um, back story for whoever doesn't know my pre-dried is that I didn't know that I had to pay quarterly taxes if I was being 1099.

spk_0 Um, and so I got a very surprising,

spk_0 you owe X one tax season and it.

spk_0 I bet that one happens all the time though, because that's not an obvious thing.

spk_0 No, yeah.

spk_0 You know, professional to be like,

spk_0 I mean, I'm like not still beating myself up about it,

spk_0 but I definitely took a lot of effort to like slow down and learn some things so that it wouldn't happen again,

spk_0 which is why I couldn't see myself just skipping stuff there.

spk_0 But who knows?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Maybe this will age really poorly and I'll become like a criminal.

spk_0 Um, you and Wesley Snipes.

spk_0 Yes, that person.

spk_0 You know, Wesley Snipes.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Uh, I could pull up his IMDB, but Blade, Major League.

spk_0 There's a lot of white men can't jump.

spk_0 You've never seen any of these movies?

spk_0 I've, because you said Blade, I know that they're movies.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Um, but that's also a guess in my brain.

spk_0 Uh, demolition man.

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Apparently using the recent Deadpool and Wolverine.

spk_0 See that either.

spk_0 Sometimes I forget that I'm 100 years older than you know.

spk_0 Yeah, ancient.

spk_0 Or am I you?

spk_0 The fan?

spk_0 I was really.

spk_0 No, at least it was money train.

spk_0 Come on.

spk_0 These are hits.

spk_0 Two Wang Fu.

spk_0 Thanks for everything.

spk_0 Julia Numer.

spk_0 Nope.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Yeah, these are all before your time.

spk_0 Yeah, I didn't see any of those.

spk_0 So cool.

spk_0 Me and that guy.

spk_0 Um, if you got arrested.

spk_0 What would you be doing?

spk_0 I think I feel like alcohol would be involved.

spk_0 As a given.

spk_0 And I think it would be something where you didn't agree with like.

spk_0 The principle or the fund of mentality behind like the rule.

spk_0 Like you were drinking and you can't go behind this barrier to see this view of this.

spk_0 They were something like that.

spk_0 I think I'm like in the football game we went to.

spk_0 Like imagine you wouldn't go past this thing in your drunk and you're a little sneaky.

spk_0 And you're like, I don't agree with the thought process behind that rule.

spk_0 I'm going to do it anyway.

spk_0 But then you get caught.

spk_0 Chants.

spk_0 I've got some news for you here.

spk_0 What?

spk_0 I've been arrested for basically exactly what you just said.

spk_0

spk_0 You've been arrested.

spk_0 Uh, like the 19 year old version.

spk_0 But yeah, I wasn't exactly what I said.

spk_0 There was a part of the bar.

spk_0 No way.

spk_0 There was a part of the bar.

spk_0 It was, uh, they had like the fog machine, but it was like roped off because it was too early.

spk_0 Like they were letting people back there.

spk_0 So I went back there.

spk_0 Uh, I think twice.

spk_0 I kicked me out of the area and then they kicked me out of the bar.

spk_0 And then I, like kept fighting with the bouncer.

spk_0 I felt like you can't let me, you can't kick me out of this place.

spk_0 My friends are in there.

spk_0 This is bullshit.

spk_0 And he's like, if you don't get out of here, the cops are going to come and they're going to throw you in the patty wagon.

spk_0 I'm like, yeah, right.

spk_0 Let's go.

spk_0 Uh, yeah.

spk_0 I got arrested spent the night in jail.

spk_0 I can't believe I just fucking got that.

spk_0 I don't like it.

spk_0 Yep.

spk_0 Your mom didn't come get you.

spk_0 I was in Murdle Beach, South Carolina.

spk_0 Oh.

spk_0 This was like spring break type of.

spk_0 Uh, so funny.

spk_0 Fake ID style.

spk_0 How did I get busted for that?

spk_0 Maybe you can begin bars before 21 there.

spk_0 I forget exactly.

spk_0 But yeah, it was like that my school bullshit.

spk_0 That's so funny.

spk_0

spk_0 Uh, yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Can I say that I was pretty good.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So I'd like to think that I've matured from my 19 year old self.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That was 48 years ago.

spk_0 Um, I'm just, I'm impressed with myself.

spk_0 I was good.

spk_0 I was really good.

spk_0 I thought maybe because Jess and I were chatting a little bit before just going through some of the show and other stuff.

spk_0 And I had mentioned to her, I'm like, she spilled the secret to you because I gave her this story.

spk_0 I just gave you.

spk_0 Uh, I think she also came up with a similar answer.

spk_0 So maybe I'm just very predictable.

spk_0 Yeah, predictable guy.

spk_0

spk_0 Good.

spk_0 Are you ready for my thing of the week?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I got a call from my videographer today that the, they forgot to push record when I came down the aisle.

spk_0 Um, so everything until like we're at the, the, you know, arch doing the ceremony.

spk_0 Like doing that.

spk_0 Everything of, of everyone entering my dad walking me down, Garrett seeing me.

spk_0 No footage.

spk_0 None of it.

spk_0 Um, so I guess the video will be us getting ready into surprise now right at the altar.

spk_0 And the ceremony is already happening.

spk_0 So they got the ceremony at least.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But no coming up the aisle with pepper, no bridal party, coming up the aisle, no parents, coming up the aisle.

spk_0 No Garrett seeing me, no across the star star wars song.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Have you already paid this person?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Like the full thing.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Um, he did, he did say that like whatever, he was very vague about it, but he said, like, I forgot how he worded it.

spk_0 I recorded the conversations I could play it back, but basically he was like, let me know what you guys want.

spk_0 Like what, what the fix is for you guys.

spk_0 You said like you suggest how much I owe you.

spk_0 Um, so I posted in a wedding videographer page, just like the scenario.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And like what the package includes, how much it cost, what parts were missing and like asked just a crowd source.

spk_0 Like what, what do you guys think fair is as people in the industry that way I can take what I think is fair and either like temperate or be like, I'm not enough.

spk_0 Um, I don't know.

spk_0 I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that I, Garrett thinks I'm handling it very well.

spk_0 I think I just like haven't processed it yet.

spk_0 Like I'm never going to, I'm never going to get to watch myself walk down the aisle.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Does someone's going to have it on a cell phone, right?

spk_0 No, because we were very, very, very adamant that if I saw a phone, I'd throw it into the lake.

spk_0 So silly silly me.

spk_0 Um, yeah.

spk_0 So there's a second camera, but the second camera is pointed at the arch at an angle where you can't see the aisle.

spk_0 And so you can literally see the videographer standing there with the camera in his hand in that video.

spk_0 That's what they showed me.

spk_0

spk_0 And so you can see him there and he's like, so you can see that he's doing it and doing all this stuff, but he must not have pressed record.

spk_0 So,

spk_0 of all the weddings they've done of the 40 plus weddings that specific videographer has done they've never had this happen once.

spk_0 And I get to be the lucky person who had to.

spk_0 Um, you're the Akuna of weddings.

spk_0 I am the Akuna weddings.

spk_0 So yeah, that's what that's my thing of the week.

spk_0 Um, I'm still processing it.

spk_0 Did you get a number from the crowdsourced opinion that you think is fair?

spk_0 It's really all over the place.

spk_0 It's everything from.

spk_0 It's not going to change anything let it slide to I would be demanding 50%.

spk_0 And I think 50% is too much.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I don't think that's fair.

spk_0 I don't think nothing's fair either.

spk_0 But I'm trying to figure out like what is appropriate like what would make it sting a little less because it is a.

spk_0 It's like three, four minutes of the ceremony like when everyone's walking up there that is.

spk_0 Something it's not nothing.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And those are important moments that we just like never get now, but.

spk_0 I also want to be fair.

spk_0 And I want like I want to be understanding of like no one does this intentionally like they're probably beating themselves up about it too.

spk_0 So I want to be I want to feel fair on both ends.

spk_0 You know, in Photoshop now like if you zoom out, there's the option on a photo.

spk_0 There's the option to do like the gender generative fill where like it will use AI to fill space as you zoom out.

spk_0 I'm like a photo that doesn't actually exist.

spk_0 What if they can use AI to like replicate the whole ceremony moment?

spk_0 Yeah, I don't know if I would want that.

spk_0 You've got like 12 thing.

spk_0 I've also had like the thought of well, I could get photos from the photographer and have them just like.

spk_0 Slide show the photos in that part of the video.

spk_0 At least we do have photos of it.

spk_0 Not kind of what that nothing happens to Puma's camera.

spk_0 Yeah, but yeah, you know, we'll have the photos of it.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 We'll figure it out.

spk_0 But yeah, that we got that call.

spk_0 Two hours ago.

spk_0 Yeah, that's like I'm sorry.

spk_0 If it's any consolation.

spk_0 We watched our wedding video like the week after the wedding.

spk_0 And I haven't even.

spk_0 Like thought of it.

spk_0 Yeah, I mean like worse things get the look at the episode we do it.

spk_0 Yeah, but yeah, like worse things happen.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 In the grand scheme of things like it's not like the biggest thing.

spk_0 It's not like all the footage is gone.

spk_0 Yeah, it's fine.

spk_0 It's just a bummer.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So yeah, I don't know.

spk_0 You got to figure that out.

spk_0 So I'm reading all these crowdsourced things on what people are saying.

spk_0 They've got good points on both ends of things.

spk_0 Um,

spk_0 leave us a voicemail with what you think you would do in this session.

spk_0 I haven't cried yet, which is shocking.

spk_0 I would think that I would have, but maybe it just hasn't hit.

spk_0 Two friends.

spk_0 Maybe I just haven't realized it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Um, but then I'm also like it could be worth.

spk_0 Like, you know, like I still got all these other clips of it.

spk_0 So maybe I am just like fine with it.

spk_0 But I don't know.

spk_0 Maybe I am upset.

spk_0 And I just haven't realized it yet.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 We'll revisit this in the next podcast.

spk_0 See where you're going to tell you what the verdict is.

spk_0

spk_0 We'll figure it out.

spk_0 I think,

spk_0 I think we'll settle on something and like the takeaway will just be like.

spk_0 And maybe maybe we just won't give you a review.

spk_0 Like, you know,

spk_0 because I, I don't want to give you a negative review.

spk_0 And, you know, like mistakes happen every now and then.

spk_0 And I'm sure that you're going to change your processes to make sure that doesn't happen again.

spk_0 I don't think negative review would help anything.

spk_0 But I also not just going to be like.

spk_0 What's amazing your positive review because obviously it's not.

spk_0 So I think.

spk_0 I think that whatever we, whatever we find a happy middle on.

spk_0 The like my give back will be like, how about we just, we just don't do the review.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Um, no.

spk_0 So yeah, that's the thing of the week.

spk_0 Crisis of the week.

spk_0 I think in the world of choice.

spk_0 Originally, Pisha is a fun thing of the week.

spk_0 I see now that not so much fun was fun was fun was fun was used in a.

spk_0 So yeah, yeah.

spk_0 Good.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Let's do the triple crown of things that make you cringe.

spk_0 I don't know who came up with this, but.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Um,

spk_0 I think we could just parlay directly from the question of the day.

spk_0 Or the sorry, the fun thing of the week.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Losing an important moment of your wedding for a video of your wedding is kind of crazy.

spk_0 Is that cringy?

spk_0 I'm thinking cringy like.

spk_0 My first, my first, my first thing that makes me cringe is people that call you.

spk_0 Hunn.

spk_0 Mm.

spk_0 That aren't a grandma.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like, like, people my age that walk around calling everyone.

spk_0 So I think it's like the way we went, hunn.

spk_0 Better or worse when it comes from a man versus a woman.

spk_0 Or different.

spk_0 Not.

spk_0 It's like demeaning both times.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But like, the man it's maybe a little.

spk_0 Which one would be worse?

spk_0 I think the from a girl is a little more bitchy.

spk_0 Whereas from a man, it's just like, here's a man view.

spk_0 And he has less than as always.

spk_0 So yeah, I think it's just like a different, but both cringy.

spk_0 Like, especially when you see someone, like, you're just watching.

spk_0 Like, you're sitting at a table and like, someone's calling someone else.

spk_0 Hunn and you're like, yeah.

spk_0 I know.

spk_0 It's find a different word.

spk_0 I agree with that.

spk_0 With one important exception.

spk_0 If it's a.

spk_0 The.

spk_0 Woman older than me with a southern accent, then I'll allow it.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Yeah, that and grandma's.

spk_0 Yeah, right.

spk_0

spk_0 Good.

spk_0 Same page.

spk_0 I know I've said this one before because this is like my prototypical thing that is cringy.

spk_0 Is when people post videos of them crying on social media.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 That is like, this is the beacon of cringe, in my opinion.

spk_0 Which I know probably a generational thing.

spk_0 People that grew up with social media, it's, I think, much more natural.

spk_0 Just just project all your emotional states.

spk_0 But yeah, for old fellers like me.

spk_0 It's like, so cringy.

spk_0 It's funny.

spk_0 I laugh when I see someone crying social media, which is probably not the most empathetic response.

spk_0 But just knowing that in the moment of you being that upset, you had the sense of mind to

spk_0 cry your phone, flip the camera around and like, it has to be a little bit of a performative cry at that point.

spk_0 Yeah, that is such a good answer.

spk_0

spk_0 I feel the feeling of cringe hearing you say that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 My next one is, I've had this a couple of times spaced out by a good number of years.

spk_0 But when someone that you haven't talked to in a good number of years sends you like a Facebook DM,

spk_0 trying to pitch you on their multi-level marketing thing that they've been sucked into.

spk_0 I haven't gotten that yet.

spk_0 I've had a couple of people that like, I vaguely knew in San Diego or from high school.

spk_0 It's just like, there's always the awkward intro DM that's like, what is happening here?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And you're not trying to catch up.

spk_0 People don't do that.

spk_0 And then the next thing's like, hey, how would you like to explain?

spk_0 Take back your time.

spk_0 You're not trying to get more time with your kids.

spk_0 Be your own boss.

spk_0

spk_0 I mean, it's obviously awkward because then like, I'm not going to respond to you.

spk_0 That is awkward that I'm just blatantly ignoring you.

spk_0 But also, I feel bad for you.

spk_0 Like, I'm guessing financially you're at a place where you feel like that's the thing that you have to resort to to try to make money.

spk_0 And I know that's probably not an ideal scenario.

spk_0 It's not ideal for anyone.

spk_0 You don't want to be the recipient.

spk_0 You don't want to be the person giving it.

spk_0 But yeah, just like very awkward.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Okay, those are two good ones.

spk_0 Thanks.

spk_0 Um, loud eaters slash lip smacking.

spk_0 Like when you're just like, you know, like when you're eating something and you just don't know how to

spk_0 not be loud about it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I don't need to hear the sounds your mouth makes when you're chewing something or eating something.

spk_0 And if you lack the awareness or you don't even realize you're doing it, like I'm sitting there just twitching the whole time.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And like maybe even leaving the room.

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 It's very hard to very hard to just sit through and meal or something's eating loudly.

spk_0 And we know you're in good company there because the one time we did that on the podcast, we got feedback.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's a fair one, I feel like.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I don't want to hear that.

spk_0 Um, my last one being rude to wait staff.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 When you see someone being rude to wait staff.

spk_0 It's so hard to just like see that happen.

spk_0 Or if someone's like like when we were on the honeymoon, there was a couple at one of the resorts that was at the desk next to we were at the desk and they were just angry about something and they were just be dicks.

spk_0 And we're just sitting there like and we make eye contact with like the people at the desk and we'd be like.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 Just cringe.

spk_0 It's been nice to people.

spk_0 I agree.

spk_0 Being mean to service people.

spk_0 There's oftentimes where like I get very frustrated with especially customer service.

spk_0 And I know like a lot of times nowadays you're not even speaking to somebody in the United States.

spk_0 We're like, I'm at 11 out of 10 frustrated, but I'm trying to convey to them that I'm frustrated but not at them.

spk_0 Like I'm, let me be very clear that I hate your company.

spk_0 I know you have no part in my frustration right now.

spk_0 But like please tell somebody above you that X Y and Z is just outrageously wrong.

spk_0 I've been on the phone a lot with meta of things.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's a frustrating experience.

spk_0 My last one.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 People who have a podcast.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Obviously guilty as far as you know.

spk_0 My last one was going to be me.

spk_0 Just me.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 But I feel that way about other people.

spk_0 I mean like I listen to the consequences.

spk_0 No, no, no, no, I feel that way, especially about myself, not you.

spk_0 Just having a podcast being like, yeah, listen to me talk is a cringe thing.

spk_0 I, again, I've.

spk_0 I'm acknowledging that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It's me.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0

spk_0 But I also.

spk_0 But I listen to a lot of podcasts.

spk_0 It's not podcasts as a medium.

spk_0 It's just like there's so many podcasts out there.

spk_0 You have to be really fucking good.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 For it to be worth someone's time.

spk_0 And that's not true for a lot of them.

spk_0 Honorable mentions.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'll give you Garrett's three because I message him and asked him for his.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, I said, what makes me cringe and he.

spk_0 He said scratching your car was his first one.

spk_0 I was like, what do you mean scratching my car?

spk_0 Like, what does that mean?

spk_0 So we're going to art that one.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 But we'll read the three that he gave that makes sense, which is when old men use new lingo.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 That apparently makes him cringe.

spk_0 When someone around you says I love you to early to someone who's not into them.

spk_0 That's funny.

spk_0 And stepping on water with socks on.

spk_0 Yeah, like a cringe feeling.

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 That's funny.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I love you one.

spk_0 Yeah, that is really good.

spk_0 I also consulted with Jess.

spk_0 Her suggestion was people who talk on a phone in a public setting.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Very good.

spk_0 My last one.

spk_0 This is me.

spk_0 Anyone who's like my, who's a dude, my age or older, kind of in the sphere, who uses social media.

spk_0 For any reason other than to get asked or like promote their business venture.

spk_0 Like I just think it once you get to a certain age and you post social media from me personally,

spk_0 it's cringe.

spk_0 I hate using social media.

spk_0 And I know I'm a hypocrite.

spk_0 I post pictures of like my dog and my kids on stories, at least.

spk_0 And I feel cringe about it every single time.

spk_0 But like most of my friends don't even have social media.

spk_0 And that's a thing that I love about them.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But I also want to give the caveats of like, if you're single, you have to do it.

spk_0 Because like that's an area where you're going to go fishing.

spk_0 And yeah, if you're, if you have business ventures, like that's kind of where all of the people are.

spk_0 So you can't not be there.

spk_0 I just thought of another one and then I forgot it.

spk_0 Oh.

spk_0 People who don't realize that their butt crack is showing.

spk_0 Like, I mean, yeah.

spk_0 The classic plumbers area.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like, you don't notice.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You don't feel it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And walking around and I can see the top of your butt crack.

spk_0 And you don't notice that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 No, I'd like to think that doesn't ever happen to me.

spk_0 I can't say it with great confidence because I don't have eyes in the back of my head.

spk_0 But to your point, like, I feel a draft when my shirt's up and it's uncomfortable.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Oh man.

spk_0 Now if my butt cracks ever out.

spk_0 I trust me.

spk_0 I'll tell you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because I'll tell you to put it away.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Um, it's just like such an ugly view.

spk_0 You know, top of butt crack is.

spk_0 There's no scenario where it's hot.

spk_0 Not even hot.

spk_0 It's just, it's always, it's kind of like a fart.

spk_0 Like it's always funny.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think I think having the top of your butt crack show is like a fart.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because it's just not cute.

spk_0 But you're never in on the joke.

spk_0 You're always being laughed at.

spk_0 Whereas like, if you fart, you can be in on the joke.

spk_0 If you are unknowingly given off top of ass crack, you are the butt of the joke pun, I guess.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Gringe.

spk_0 Good.

spk_0 I love the intro to happy go where he's going through all of his previous jobs.

spk_0 It's all just like him doing the humping thing and then he ends with and a plumber.

spk_0 And it's just his full ass out.

spk_0 90s kids will know what I'm talking about.

spk_0 Uh, cool.

spk_0 That was the shippling kind of things that make you cringe.

spk_0 Me.

spk_0 I'm cringy.

spk_0 Uh, mailbag.

spk_0 This one's to you.

spk_0 Hi, Zach.

spk_0 Not long ago, I saw you were looking for suggestions for people to have on your podcast.

spk_0 I hit the ATN23 and think my friend John or sorry, Jeff Vaughan by Longstrize would be a terrific

spk_0 guest.

spk_0 He's been living with stage four cancer for several years yet decided to become it through Hiker.

spk_0 He was in my family on the AT after finishing that.

spk_0 He went home for the winter for more chemo and then completed the PCT in 2024.

spk_0 He has a Zion the triple crown, then a list of international hikes.

spk_0 He is a strong hiker and upbeat, engaging, talkative person.

spk_0 And I think an interview with him would be a lot of fun.

spk_0 He has a YouTube channel, Jeff Vaughan by.

spk_0 If you want to check him out, he could be reached through Facebook and Instagram.

spk_0 Thanks.

spk_0 Cheryl Village Tarte AT-2023.

spk_0 Um, surprise Cheryl.

spk_0 We did it.

spk_0 And this is a great reminder that if you have someone that you think would be a great guest,

spk_0 we have a suggested guest form and we look through it frequently and.

spk_0 Take advice from people who give good guest recommendations and try to make it happen.

spk_0 Um, obviously we record out of Denver.

spk_0 So if you know that whoever you want to refer would be coming through Denver,

spk_0 like that's always really helpful to include.

spk_0 If you know they're upcoming travel plans and you're like, hey, this person would be great.

spk_0 I know they're going to be passing through the area in February.

spk_0 Like great info for us.

spk_0 Perfect.

spk_0 We will try to make it happen.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well said.

spk_0 Um, also we get often, usually from the guests themselves, like, how did you find out about me?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I don't ever know what to say because we operate on a project management system.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like that we pull from so many different places.

spk_0 Oh, apparently this one came from a mailbag.

spk_0 So, uh, always shoot your shot because we are listening.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And again, backbackready.com or podcasts at the track that CEO to get through to us.

spk_0 And I'll also say, um, search backpack or radio in the name of the person to make sure they haven't been on first.

spk_0 We do get that.

spk_0 This was in it.

spk_0 This was more of like a spicy message we had gotten.

spk_0 So we just kind of just regarded it.

spk_0 But a spicy message about people we should have on and then they rattle off people that we should have on and three out of the four names we've already had on.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, um, if you are like, oh my god, you should have this person on.

spk_0 Maybe we have.

spk_0 So 300 something episodes.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, everyone.

spk_0 Two of the five star reviews.

spk_0 This is from Kibble.

spk_0 Nope.

spk_0 We did this one last time.

spk_0 That was my bad because I added it last minute and didn't consult with Rachel.

spk_0 Do we have anything new that we can add?

spk_0 Well, we might be doing the same thing if we do that again.

spk_0 That's true.

spk_0 Just the never ending cycle of being out of sync.

spk_0 We'll skip the five star review because Zach messed up the previous show notes.

spk_0 But I guess this is a call for we would love your guys five star reviews.

spk_0 So, I'm down at Apple podcasts.

spk_0 Leave us any number of stars.

spk_0 It's not one two three or four.

spk_0 And we will read it here on this podcast.

spk_0 We'll read basically almost anything.

spk_0 Basically almost anything.

spk_0 Almost anything.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And screen shot it.

spk_0 Review.

spk_0 Email us podcast at the track.co and we will send you a backpacker radio sticker.

spk_0 Thank you to today's title sponsor element.

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spk_0 I don't know if the sample pack doesn't include the lemonade.

spk_0 So get the free sample pack and then buy the lemonade.

spk_0 Yeah, lemonade through it.

spk_0 Yeah, lemonade stills.

spk_0 We're deep into fall now and I'm still.

spk_0 I'm still loving on lemonade.

spk_0 I'm not drinking it exclusively.

spk_0 I have now rotation and that's heavily in my rotation.

spk_0 But there was a stretch for at least a few weeks where it was like lemonade only lemonade is life.

spk_0 Yeah, I should have saved it before I deleted it.

spk_0 But I made a drunk story.

spk_0 I'm backpacker radio for like a hot second.

spk_0 If anyone was up at 2 a.m. last weekend and I took it down because I was like this isn't even entertaining.

spk_0 And it was literally just me pouring element into my water to drink it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I like the part I remember was me.

spk_0 I started it with hay friends and foes.

spk_0 And then it was me and my stupid haircut are going to make some element.

spk_0 And then I'm like laying on my couch with it and then I just deleted it.

spk_0 I was like this isn't even entertaining.

spk_0 I'm not funny.

spk_0 What are you trying?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I was making it so I didn't get hungover.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Did it work?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Always does.

spk_0 Oh yeah.

spk_0 So next I'll leave it up.

spk_0 You're deep into hangover age now.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You're like you're a real adult.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 In that way.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It sucks.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It does suck.

spk_0 It's the worst.

spk_0 But yeah, drink element.

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spk_0 Um, actually on underscore Chauncey and on YouTube.

spk_0 Actually on a chauncey.

spk_0 Be sure to believe in my book hiking from home along distance hiking.

spk_0 I've her family and friends.

spk_0 I'm going to be checking the stories at 2 a.m.

spk_0 That's where all the juicy content is going out.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'll try to be less.

spk_0 I'll try to I'll try to second guess less.

spk_0 Yeah, no guessing at all.

spk_0 Appalachian trials and Pacific press trials in my books.

spk_0 Chauncey and I will both be appreciative of a review on Amazon.

spk_0 Subscribing follows on a podcast spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts follows on YouTube.

spk_0 Internet YouTube.

spk_0 We're starting to get some steam on YouTube.

spk_0 Yeah, we hit 4,000 followers subscribers, I guess.

spk_0 Which is exciting.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And when you watch on YouTube, you get to like you're a part of the studio.

spk_0 Like the cameras right there.

spk_0 It's basically sitting on our lap right now.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You get to sit on our lap.

spk_0 You can sit on my lap on YouTube.

spk_0 We tell you if you've been naughty or nice.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Cool.

spk_0 And you're stocking or the latest hot wheels.

spk_0 It's up to you.

spk_0 My house is nothing but hot wheels.

spk_0 Is it?

spk_0 It's three boys in just all hot wheels everywhere you go.

spk_0 I liked watching them on the curtains.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 They're cats.

spk_0 Yeah, they do.

spk_0 That's a great way to describe it.

spk_0 They get in the most mischievous places and like you have to look for them sometimes.

spk_0 You can't just open the bedroom door and be like, no, not in here.

spk_0 Like, oh, really?

spk_0 Did you open the blinds and the curtain and see that they're standing in the windowsill after climbing the bed frame?

spk_0 Yeah, that's exactly where they are.

spk_0 And like when you come to the room, they get quiet.

spk_0 They're hiding from you.

spk_0 They're cats.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 They're cats.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 That's it for today's show.

spk_0 Thank you so much for listening and happy hiking.

spk_0 Bye.

spk_0 Thank you all for coming to our bee and beer and Jesus.

spk_0 As you know, I'm as sick as a three-legged dog on the streets of India.

spk_0 Any minute my lungs are going to sizzle pop and disintegrate into a liquid lung and organ gumbo soup.

spk_0 That was my lunch.

spk_0 It's good.

spk_0 Nice.

spk_0 Charlie, I can't do this.

spk_0 This is the money part.

spk_0 I just get the money part.

spk_0 Give me money.

spk_0 Money me.

spk_0 Money now.

spk_0 Me a money.

spk_0 Needing a lot now.

spk_0 That was Charlie's lunch.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'm in a walking zone.

spk_0 Man in my zone.

spk_0 I've yet to go.

spk_0 I've never been worn.

spk_0 That's where you choose.

spk_0 But every time I do, I find I lose.

spk_0 I get someone who's just a starving ground.

spk_0 Oh, welcome man.

spk_0 You're a loving crowd.

spk_0 I'll rescue you.

Triple Crowning with Stage 4 Cancer with Jeff "Long Strides" Vonvai (BPR #330)

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