Transforming the Toddler Years with Devon Kuntzman

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Welcome to a very special episode of Parenting and You, with me, Dr. Sheffali.

spk_0 Today I'm absolutely thrilled to be joined by Devon Kunzman.

spk_0 She's the founder of Transforming Tadler Heard.

spk_0 She's a certified coach and author and most importantly, a Tadler parent who truly

spk_0 gets it.

spk_0 Devon is on a mission to flip the script on the Terrible Toos, Three Nagers, fearsome

spk_0 force and the frightful fives.

spk_0 Through her work, she's helped tens of thousands of families around the world navigate Tadler

spk_0 Heard with more calm, confidence and joy.

spk_0 It's going to be a really insightful and empowering conversation.

spk_0 One you don't want to miss, especially if you're a Tadler parent.

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spk_0 and steady, whether you're following a set curriculum or creating your own.

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spk_0 I really like that it's personalized and flexible.

spk_0 No rigid structure here, whether your child is reviewing third grade math or jumping

spk_0 into sixth grade reading.

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spk_0 Make an impact on your child's learning.

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spk_0 when they sign up today at IXL.com slash parenting.

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spk_0 Joining me now is a dear friend, a colleague, a trusted parenting expert, Devon Koonzman,

spk_0 certified coach, Mama Fattardler, an author of the New Brook.

spk_0 I'm so excited for this to hit the shells and be out in the world.

spk_0 It's called Transforming Toddlerhood.

spk_0 She wrote this insightful book because she believes parents deserve support, not guilt,

spk_0 and toddlers deserve to be understood, not just managed.

spk_0 Her mission is to shift the narrative around toddler parenting from one of frustration and control

spk_0 to one of empathy and connection.

spk_0 Hi, Devon, welcome to the podcast.

spk_0 I'm so excited to have you here.

spk_0 Thank you so much. I'm so excited.

spk_0 Chat today.

spk_0 Fantastic. So Devon, you know, when you had your toddler

spk_0 and you saw that it was so filled with unpredictability and chaos, you know, the toddler world is a world of its own,

spk_0 how did you take all of that frustration and helplessness and transform it for yourself?

spk_0 When you have a toddler, it's an exciting developmental period because it's really a developmental period full of firsts,

spk_0 right? You get to see the first steps and the first words and just really who your child is.

spk_0 The personality and who they are is a unique being and at the same time.

spk_0 It's the first time that your sense of control is really challenged.

spk_0 And I remember for myself, like cognitively, you know, I have been supporting parents all over the world since 2018

spk_0 in toddlerhood and when having my own toddler, there were moments where, you know, you just second guess everything.

spk_0 You question everything you know because you're asleep deprived.

spk_0 Your toddler's doing the exact opposite of what you predicted.

spk_0 And I think that's like the biggest thing about parenthood is you have this idea of the child you're going to have

spk_0 and what it's going to look like.

spk_0 And then you get the child that you have, right?

spk_0 And it often times doesn't look the same.

spk_0 And so there's a lot of moments of like reconciling that.

spk_0 And I think the biggest thing that always helps me stay like in the North Star,

spk_0 like the North Star for like keeping me on track is the fact that I'm always telling myself like he's just learning.

spk_0 He doesn't know yet.

spk_0 And I think that's the biggest thing is that when I realize that this isn't personal towards me,

spk_0 he's just learning.

spk_0 That's the thing that starts kind of pulling me out of the moments where I'm like, oh my gosh,

spk_0 can I take another moment of this or what the heck is going on here?

spk_0 That's really what helps me stay, point towards that true North.

spk_0 Yeah. Did you find that when you were raising your young child, that your own, you know, memories of being that age

spk_0 kept popping up and, you know, did you have some moments of, you know, come to Jesus

spk_0 where you're like, wow, I didn't realize that when I was a child, I really wasn't allowed to do

spk_0 XYZ or what kind of parallels did you begin to draw in your own parenting?

spk_0 Yeah, you know, this actually even started for me prior to having my child because I was a nanny

spk_0 for many high-profile families all over the world for about a decade before I started

spk_0 transferring toddlerhood and had my own child.

spk_0 And so I had a lot of time to kind of work through my things and see how all these beautiful little

spk_0 toddlers that I was taking care of, how they brought back memories for me,

spk_0 a things of my childhood that maybe weren't conscious anymore that I'd like forgotten about.

spk_0 And those moments of, I think, the biggest thing that came up for me was like this idea of like,

spk_0 I didn't think I was, quote unquote, doing a good job or doing it right if this toddler wasn't

spk_0 listening to me. And I think that was the biggest thing is like feeling like that I was supposed

spk_0 to be able to control this little being, this little child and really having that these moments

spk_0 over and over again, of getting kind of slapped in the face with the fact that we can't control

spk_0 these little beings. And I think it brought back a lot of parallels from my childhood of like,

spk_0 you know, this idea of what it means to be a good girl and what that looks like. And then the

spk_0 expectations having grown up with different messages that I was putting on these toddlers that I

spk_0 was with every day and then my own son. And, you know, really looking at how that impacted the things

spk_0 I might say or I might do. And it made me very conscious of a lot of patterns that I didn't even

spk_0 know existed. I know. Isn't that shocking because first we don't even realize that we're such

spk_0 control freaks, right? We don't look at ourselves like that. And maybe in all our adult relationships

spk_0 because we can't be control freaky for the most part because the other adult will push us back,

spk_0 right? They'll be like, ah, you can't control me or not my mother. But then we do become the mother.

spk_0 We suddenly realize we are controlling. And it's out of a need for, you know, doing our best and

spk_0 all the good intentions, but we're actually very controlling. And I think that that toddler really

spk_0 is the first time in our lives as a parent that we have somebody, this child pushing back against us.

spk_0 You know, I think then it sets off, you know, the preteen years, the teen years, but the toddler is

spk_0 that first experiment where they are now rebelling. And you feel so helpless. You know, when your

spk_0 teenager rebels, you almost expect it because they're 15, 16, 17. But when a three-year-old says no

spk_0 and will not brush their teeth and refuse to like just obey you, that is your first experiment of

spk_0 like, what do I do now? How do I let go of my power without feeling powerless, right? And I think

spk_0 many parents have that big battle, right? How do you let go of power without feeling powerless?

spk_0 And I think the answer is, don't see it as a power struggle, right? Like, don't even look at it

spk_0 like that. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yes, I love talking about this because I always say

spk_0 that, you know, when we're stuck in a power struggle, we are trying to win, right? But then in the end,

spk_0 if you're trying to win, we've lost sight of what we're actually trying to accomplish, but it's

spk_0 so easy for our brains to kind of suck us into that battle and into that drama because it can

spk_0 feel really uncomfortable to be in the unknown. And it can also feel really uncomfortable to have

spk_0 society telling us that toddlerhood is terrible. And on the other side of that is this expectation

spk_0 will then you better get your toddler under control, right? And so that's being kind of thrown

spk_0 at us from so many angles that it's so easy to get sucked into those power struggles. But in the end,

spk_0 where are the adults with the mature brains? And so it's our job to step back out of a power struggle

spk_0 because toddlers, they're tenacious and they're going to stay in that power struggle because that's

spk_0 what they're developing mainly driven to do. And I think the sooner that we realize that we're not

spk_0 trying to tame our children, that we're not trying to win against our toddler that things start

spk_0 getting easier, that our goal is to be in charge, to create connection, to have clear limits and

spk_0 boundaries, but also to teach skills. And that shift can be really challenging because as I said,

spk_0 it's really uncomfortable to look at creating a partnership and being in charge versus

spk_0 trying to demand control. Totally. Can you give us a personal moment in your life where you

spk_0 were in a power struggle with your toddler and then what shifted? Yeah, there's a really great

spk_0 story. I love to share. And I was actually observing recently a power struggle between my husband

spk_0 and my toddler and it was really interesting for me to kind of sit there and like see it play out

spk_0 and it reminded me of these of these moments where we all just we have so much going on in our lives.

spk_0 It's challenging. We just want this little being to go along with us, but sometimes a harder

spk_0 we push the more they push against us. And so I remember that it was time to go and my husband

spk_0 basically just told my son who's happily playing with all his trucks, hey, it's time to go. Go get

spk_0 on your socks very like logically based here. There's nothing bad or wrong with that at all. And my

spk_0 toddler is like no, and he like runs the other direction. He's like hiding behind the couch,

spk_0 brought all his trucks there. I can see my husband starting to get frustrated. So then he like walked

spk_0 away for a moment and then I went over and got a bag and I went over and I said, hey, it's time to go

spk_0 which one of these trucks do you want to bring? Let's put the ones you want to bring in the bag. And he

spk_0 says, okay, he filled up this bag and then he walked to the door. And I think that that's what I like

spk_0 to call this is this idea of like a having a transition object, but really at its core, it's about

spk_0 talking to our kids connecting with them in a way that makes sense to them. And we have to sometimes

spk_0 step out of our dull, logical thinking like here's the next step, here's the next step, take a moment

spk_0 connect and it can really change how things go, right? Another time was in the pool. My son didn't

spk_0 want to get in the swimming pool where it swim lessons. And I was like, okay, we could be in a

spk_0 parish frugal here or I could just get in and start doing the swim class. Exactly. And then my son

spk_0 just, well, all of a sudden five minutes later, he jumped right in. Exactly. You have to create that

spk_0 bridge between the future self and the present self. So even when parents come to me and they're

spk_0 transitioning their toddler to pre pre pre school, I teach them how to do role playing and practice

spk_0 in the house, make a little simulated little, you know, pre pre pre pre K in the house. So you practice,

spk_0 practice, practice, and that becomes a transitional expertise that they then carry to the next self.

spk_0 And I think parents don't realize that because we are able to transition quickly, but transitions

spk_0 are so hard for kids, especially toddlers, right? Because they're literally transitioning from

spk_0 infant to kind of the next stage of child. It's called a toddler. They are in a transition.

spk_0 The entire stage is transition. So if you just expect them to see their next self when the next

spk_0 self hasn't shown up, it's very hard for them because they're learning object permanence.

spk_0 They can't see themselves in this kind of flow state and this continuum. They see themselves here

spk_0 and they don't see themselves there. And so they just don't understand how to go from here to there.

spk_0 And I always tell parents, be the object, be the mediator, right? Don't scream at your toddler.

spk_0 Michael, go brush your teeth from downstairs. Go up, take your child, hold their hand,

spk_0 make them brush your teeth, then they'll brush their teeth. I mean, it's a lot of work. And I think

spk_0 that's hard. So for a man, especially a father who's very logical, toddlers can be even more

spk_0 infuriating. So how do you coach your husband to kind of learn this new language? You know,

spk_0 because it's not intuitive to them. Yeah. I'm really lucky that my husband's really, he's open-minded

spk_0 and he's absolutely game to learn. And at the same time, sometimes he's like, oh my gosh,

spk_0 this is maddening at the same time. And I think that what's really been helpful for us is having

spk_0 sidebars, not in the moment when everyone has, you know, emotions are running high. But in the

spk_0 moments where our son's not around and really getting curious, and I think that gosh, it doesn't

spk_0 matter what relation to ship it as whether it's with your parenting partner or with your child,

spk_0 curiosity can just go so far. And you know, observing like, gosh, I noticed you're frustrated

spk_0 earlier. What happened there? And getting curious about I'm like, oh, what part was hardest for you?

spk_0 And you know, how would you like that to go differently? And so I actually spend a lot of time

spk_0 being curious. And it's really interesting. I think the more curious we are and the less prescriptive,

spk_0 we are, the easier it is to feel supported and get support from your parenting partner. And I can

spk_0 say that I know this is a big struggle for a lot of people. My husband and I are not perfect at all.

spk_0 There are times where we are just in separate different chapters, different books, you know. But

spk_0 at the same time, I think like the more curious we can get and the more connection based, we can be

spk_0 versus pointing out what we quote unquote think was right or wrong. You go a long way. So now that

spk_0 you've written a book called Transforming Toddlerhood, do you put pressure on yourself to transform it

spk_0 perfectly for yourself? No, you know, I really like, it's funny because sometimes my husband will

spk_0 like to kind of call me out. He's like, oh, is that Transwaring Toddlerhood approved? I was like,

spk_0 well, it's human approved. Like we're all human beings here. And I think that's the biggest thing

spk_0 because just because that this is what I do every day, guiding parents through Toddlerhood doesn't

spk_0 mean I'm a robot by any means. I mean, I'm still a human being and my husband's a human being

spk_0 and my child's a human being and we're all going to go on being human beside each other. And I think

spk_0 that there was a point in time where I would have put a lot of pressure on myself. I think Toddler

spk_0 is such a special and critical developmental period. And of course, there's going to be days where

spk_0 like my toddler doesn't want to go to sleep at night and I'm feeling a little frustrated because

spk_0 I'm tired and I'm ready to be done with the day. And at the same time, like no one needs to be a

spk_0 perfect parent. And I think that's the biggest thing that I try to help parents understand through

spk_0 my book is that gosh, Transwaring Toddlerhood doesn't mean about being a perfect parent, doing

spk_0 everything quote unquote right. Like it's really about what works for you and your individual child

spk_0 and being human because our children actually learn way more from our humaneness than they would

spk_0 learn from us being perfect robots. Right. Yeah. And let's talk about that because everyone,

spk_0 you know, can understand that intellectually that you don't have to be perfect. But in the moment

spk_0 when you really dropped like some F-bombs, you really said the most horrible things, you think it's

spk_0 going to scar them for the rest of their life. Or you really did make a mistake, you know, like

spk_0 you did something that hurt them irrevocably. In those moments, we parents, especially mothers are

spk_0 so hard on ourselves. So when you said, you know, they learn more from our humaneness than

spk_0 our perfection, what are they learning from our humaneness? Yeah. For me, I really think it skills,

spk_0 it's relationship skills, conflict resolution skills because for example, last night in the bath,

spk_0 my son was in the bath and he has these cute little trucks that have little squirter hole in it.

spk_0 We filled them up and then he was squirting my hand and then all of a sudden he turned it and

spk_0 aimed it right at my face and it like went all over the bathroom and I snapped. I was like, no, stop

spk_0 that. Keep it in the tub. Like I was caught off guard and I snapped and then I was like, oh, okay.

spk_0 Hey, it's best to keep the water over here in the tub. Mommy doesn't like being squirted in the

spk_0 face and I know you squirt daddy in the face and he loves it and I don't love it and I'm sorry,

spk_0 I yelled at you. I didn't mean to. I was surprised. You gotta like this. And so I think the

spk_0 opportunity to repair the opportunity to show that it's okay to have feelings and emotions and that

spk_0 even big feelings and emotions don't have to be scary and bad. So we're teaching, you know,

spk_0 social, emotional skills and health, conflict resolution skills, relationship skills.

spk_0 It's really that's what we have the opportunity to teach or even every time we start to catch

spk_0 ourselves and we're like, think we might explode and then instead you close your eyes and take a

spk_0 deep breath or you start counting or maybe you go smell some essential oils or a candle you have

spk_0 nearby which is why I was watching. Like see, the thing is you have to recover, right? You can't

spk_0 lose it, lose it, lose it. Then it's going to be traumatic. But say the occasional, you know,

spk_0 once in two weeks, three weeks, you're like, you do what you did, you raise your voice, you yell.

spk_0 But then you recover. I think what that also does is teach them that they're not living in a

spk_0 perfect world. Like they are going to bounce against a lot of this in life, the teacher who's in

spk_0 a bad mood, the Uber driver who snaps and that that is okay. And then they're going to accept it

spk_0 themselves because I think sometimes we're so desiring to not inflict any trauma that we actually

spk_0 bubble wrap them in such a protective way that we then create fragility, you know. And you don't

spk_0 want to over create this presumption that life is in any way so tender to deal with that everyone's

spk_0 going to be fragile and get shattered, right? We have to say, no, we are all rebounding, right?

spk_0 And glass shatters and we don't want to shatter. We want to show that we can rebound. And that's

spk_0 I think another benefit of falling apart and repairing. But the repair is very important. Otherwise,

spk_0 it's just abuse, you know. Absolutely. It really, that's the resilience is the backbone of everything

spk_0 I hear you talking about in my head on like resilience, resilience. That's where resilience comes

spk_0 from when we know that we can work with these feelings and emotions that we can fall apart and

spk_0 bounce back. And we can learn to navigate these things and know that it's not personal. I think

spk_0 that's the biggest thing is that as you say, like, you know, it is important to bounce back and

spk_0 repair and inside of that imperfectness. Yeah. There's just a treasure trove. We're going to take a

spk_0 quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we'll have more with the amazing Devon

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spk_0 When you look back in your own childhood of being a little girl little devin

spk_0 what were some of the things that you struggled with in your childhood conditioning you know

spk_0 in your family background yeah I mean I think for me it was a lot of perfectionism or like

spk_0 doing my best minute needed to be the best right for perfect and I think that that was really

spk_0 challenging because of things in my family where you know having one sibling that was like doing

spk_0 something like this I felt like I maybe had to be the opposite or different to kind of

spk_0 fill that gap and so I think that that was like one of the more challenging things is feeling like

spk_0 to like do my best meant having to do it perfectly so how did you as a little girl do that like

spk_0 did you find yourself getting good grades or being extra good or so that was your inner child

spk_0 right wanting to be seen as good enough but then how did you actually do that in what did you

spk_0 find yourself doing definitely like getting good grades doing everything I was told not questioning

spk_0 you know what I was told to do avoiding doing anything that would like maybe get me grounded or

spk_0 things like that yeah and then how did you undo that and do you still find that that shows up

spk_0 in your parenting you know that old voice of perfectionism being hard on yourself and how do you

spk_0 work through it I'd say that like when I really started confronting that was when I did my coach

spk_0 training program and really went through a full transformation and process because I think that

spk_0 I saw that you know children and toddlers like was able to move past like thinking that a toddler should

spk_0 always listen always have good behavior things of that nature so I let toddlers off the hook before

spk_0 I might have let myself off the hook and so I think that going through a transformative

spk_0 coach training program was like probably the beginning of starting to let myself off the hook

spk_0 but of course there's always moments where you know I'm thinking oh I should have said this I should

spk_0 have done that of course and hindsight's always 2020 but if we're always focused of what I like

spk_0 the call the rear view mirror if we're always looking through the rear view mirror then we're not

spk_0 able to see where we're going and what really matters is where we're going not necessarily where

spk_0 we've been indwelling on it and so I think that doing that has really been helpful and I think also

spk_0 my biggest motto is that we're all human yeah we're all human yeah all human but I think I still

spk_0 hold myself to a high standard but more so in maybe other areas of my life but around parenting I

spk_0 think I've finally gotten to a point where most of the time I'm like we're human it's okay yeah yeah

spk_0 well I just want people listening to hear that you know they often ask me how do I make the change

spk_0 how do I transform and you went through rigorous coaching transformational program you know I have

spk_0 my own coaching institute where coach parents and non-parents to get over their past patterns

spk_0 we have to go through something you know people think that Devon here or Dr. Shifali here

spk_0 you know kind of just dropped out of the sky as this integrated more mature being version of

spk_0 themselves but it's not true we went through so much in a work so many classes so many books to get

spk_0 here and I want people to know that therefore they can do it too right they can go on a journey too

spk_0 and I think perfectionism is something that so many of us women battle with and we're hard on

spk_0 ourselves for and it really can cripple us you know and if we don't work through it and reminding

spk_0 ourselves that we're all just human is really important but then we have to really believe it right

spk_0 we have to really show compassion like you said you let your toddler off the hook way faster

spk_0 then you let yourself off the hook so what are some other practices that you engage in you know

spk_0 besides saying okay he's just learning he's just learning or I'm just human I'm just human

spk_0 what are some other ways you found yourself to really navigate the harrowing moments and now

spk_0 you're writing a book and then you have to get out there and we should out there your life is

spk_0 going to get so much busier what are some ways that you're preparing for that or the way you do

spk_0 prepare for difficult moments in your life yeah I'd say one thing is carving out time for myself

spk_0 and asking for support to get that time whether it's from my parenting partner from a family member

spk_0 from a babysitter but really being shameless and asking for my needs and what I need and I think that

spk_0 as women that's not always an easy thing to do and it's not always an easy thing for me to do and

spk_0 sometimes I like forget and I'm like gosh I haven't been to the sauna in like two weeks I was

spk_0 doing a lot better right now I've like gone to the sauna I had time to just sit there because I

spk_0 feel like the sauna is like the one place where like I'm forced to just sit there and be there and so

spk_0 it's a really good place for me to go to be still and to decompress I think another thing is is that

spk_0 I make sure to really surround myself with photos so maybe photos of myself when I was little

spk_0 photos of my son when he was a baby and I think that really connecting with like the essence of who

spk_0 we are and you know remembering that I was once this little girl and my son was once this baby and

spk_0 like really like it's an easy connection point to feel more connected to myself and give myself

spk_0 more love and compassion and for my son as well I love that you know one of the things I do in my

spk_0 coaching institute one of the exercises is of course pull up a photo of your younger self and

spk_0 really connect with them but I like the idea of just having those pictures of yourself up on the

spk_0 wall to remind you especially when you have kids that are young that I was young just like that I

spk_0 really like that idea and just to have it not as a therapeutic deliberate exercise but just to

spk_0 have it always in the house because you were that vulnerable you were that innocent you were that

spk_0 unconscious once as well so I really love that experience what do you think would be a really powerful

spk_0 tool for couples who are dealing with toddlerhood but have different ways of life and living what

spk_0 suggestions or advice would you give a couple who's trying to navigate this but they really see

spk_0 things differently yeah I have a whole chapter dedicated to this in my book because talking to

spk_0 parents and polling the people in my community one of the biggest things comes up is this

spk_0 feeling of having an unsupportive partner and so as I was talking about earlier this idea of

spk_0 curiosity over giving like directions and corrections and things like that I think have the

spk_0 potential to go so far because we're just so quick to you know jump the conclusions or think that

spk_0 our way is like the only right way when there's many many different paths to the same outcome and so

spk_0 I think that bringing curiosity is super helpful so having time to get together and to talk about

spk_0 how parenting is going because here's the thing most people don't sit down before they have kids and

spk_0 say okay what are our values what are the things that we you know hope parenting is going to look like

spk_0 what might we do if we don't agree like most people don't sit down and talk about these things

spk_0 in in advance and then that's okay but it's never too late to sit down and have those conversations

spk_0 and so maybe even it can look like writing down three to five questions on a piece of paper and

spk_0 asking your parenting partner if they'd be willing to fill that out and you guys fill it out

spk_0 together and share your answers and have conversations but I think that being curious and curiosity

spk_0 creates so much connection and from that place of connection you're more likely be able to find a

spk_0 path forward especially when you understand the other person's point of view yeah and devoting that

spk_0 time right we get so busy that we are just busy in the business of parenting yeah that's what happened

spk_0 to me in my marriage I've seen that happen countless of times especially when you have a career

spk_0 and now this and that so it's so easy to lose touch with the most important person on this journey

spk_0 besides your child is really your partner that role is so vital so how can we make sure that we're

spk_0 giving that co-parent the time right it's like your co-staff member it's a co-team player and I

spk_0 think we confuse and we obfuscate that this is a role that the other person's playing because we

spk_0 just take it for granted like oh you have to do it you're my husband or but really it's your team

spk_0 member so we have to really if you're looking at it like that like what's working for you do you

spk_0 like my style do you like your style who's leading and we never have these conversations and you know

spk_0 getting a coach getting a therapist people look down on it or they may think that there's something

spk_0 wrong with their relationship but actually it's a sign of strength to call a coach you know and do

spk_0 this work before things kind of fall apart and get too crazy yeah you know because toddlerhood

spk_0 is your test and it lasts for three for years I mean it can go to like five six so and then your

spk_0 kid begins to emerge into an elementary school kid but for that whole time period between

spk_0 infancy to school they are in this phase of very wild chaotic unpredictability yeah it's really about

spk_0 putting it on the calendar right but then one thing I like to say is that if you find yourself

spk_0 having a lot of conversations with your parenting partner but they're all business right so it's

spk_0 all like logistics and things like that it might look like scheduling something fun to go do something

spk_0 fun and or if you're always out doing things if you spend time together it's like all the fun things

spk_0 but never really talking about the things that are you know going on set or the things that feel chaotic

spk_0 and out of control then it's maybe scheduling some time to get curious about those things but

spk_0 both can be really important in terms of creating connection and finding a way I always say the goal

spk_0 isn't to be on the same page I hear this all the time like oh I need to get my parenting partner

spk_0 on the same page on the same page I'm not sure where this saying like really came from but I'm like

spk_0 let's rewrite it like our goal I think is to get into the same book right we don't have to always

spk_0 be on the same exact page but if we have the same common goal and we can get into the same book

spk_0 then we're going to make a lot of progress then putting the pressure on ourselves that we have

spk_0 to be on the same page because there's only one right way to get to the outcome that we want to

spk_0 yeah and my book The Conscious Parent which I wrote in 2010 I wrote there that you know parents

spk_0 often think they have to have a united front that's the saying right but then that's what it is it's

spk_0 a front meaning it's a farce it's an authentic way of being it cannot exist that you all are

spk_0 perfectly united now yes one can be the leader and one can be a you know very devoted loyal follower

spk_0 but both human beings cannot be exactly on the same you know line for line same page so when

spk_0 that doesn't happen don't be surprised don't be upset don't be disheartened don't be resentful in fact

spk_0 it may be a good thing for the child to experience two different kinds of parenting even if one is

spk_0 totally strict and one is lenient actually the kids figure it out you know and they learn that

spk_0 they're different styles of people and adults in the house so it's very beneficial for them to

spk_0 experience contrast for them to experience distress in these ways because then they learn to figure

spk_0 out that humans are not identical you know yeah well it really comes back to our conversation

spk_0 at the beginning of our conversation about control and this idea yes we can't control our children

spk_0 you know we have this illusion of control but we can't actually control them oh we sure can't

spk_0 control our parenting partners either but we might spend a lot of time trying to control them but

spk_0 we can't and so when I have parents come to me that say gosh well my parenting partner is just

spk_0 all the way over here and you know this is doesn't really match with my parenting style and

spk_0 gosh we didn't even like think about these things before and I realize we're just going in two

spk_0 separate directions the one thing I say is like yes like in the end above all else you can control

spk_0 your parenting partner and what you can control though is the conversations that you have with your

spk_0 child the things that you model in front of your parenting partner the conversations you have with

spk_0 your child especially as they get older about like you know what do you think about what happened

spk_0 how was that for you do you want to tell mom or dad how that felt you know like you can facilitate

spk_0 conversations you can help kids make sense of what happens you can get curious and have conversations

spk_0 with your parenting partner it's always helpful to empower yourself by coming back to the things you

spk_0 actually do have control over and whenever we're willing to give up the illusion of control the things

spk_0 that we can't control we actually find that there's a lot of ways to empower ourselves and things to do

spk_0 that we can be in charge of. Totally and my last two questions for you are what's one way that your

spk_0 mom or dad were that were unconscious now when you look back not that they could help it they

spk_0 didn't mean anything negative this is not about them but something that they passed on that you now

spk_0 are working very hard to consciously undo and make sure you don't do it again. I think that in

spk_0 relationships like being reactive I think that my parents like are really quick to raise their

spk_0 voice with each other just out of reactionary and so I noticed that pattern in myself too with my

spk_0 parenting partner not just about parenting but just you know in life and stuff and just I think that

spk_0 one thing I'm always really trying to work on and be conscious of is if I'm giving my partner

spk_0 the benefit of the doubt right that can go so far and like the benefit of the doubt we're like seeing

spk_0 the good right like what's the good and what just happened because when we allow ourselves to see

spk_0 the possibility or potential for the good out of things that happen even with our toddlers and

spk_0 their behavior you know can we see the good in that or the potential for the good it really changes

spk_0 things and so I think that in general like being more of a reactionary person is something that

spk_0 I consciously work on every day of my life in my relationships. Awesome thank you so much Devon can't

spk_0 wait for your book transforming toddlerhood to be everywhere such a gift for parents of toddlers

spk_0 thank you for all you do and thank you for being here today. Thank you so much it was really fun.

spk_0 I hope you learned a lot I sure did I will see you on the next episode of parenting and you

spk_0 with me Dr. Sheffali. Parenting and you with Dr. Sheffali is for educational and informational purposes

spk_0 only it is not intended as a substitute for professional medical, psychological, psychotherapeutic,

spk_0 coaching, health care or other qualified professional advice, diagnosis or treatment.

Transforming the Toddler Years with Devon Kuntzman

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