Thru-Hiking 11,000+ Miles Together with Chris and Sara, aka Endless and QB (BPR #326)

Interactive Transcript

Speaker A In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, present by the Trek brought to you by Element, we are joined by the Through Hiking Power couple who've hiked more than 11,000 miles together. Chris and Sarah, known on trail as Endless and qb. What haven't they hiked? Is a fair question because it's been a lot, including the at the PCT twice, CDT, CT twice, Arizona Trail, Mana Slough Circuit hey Duke Long Trail Co host Trail Lou Wit Trail, Wonderland Trail, Ruby crest Trail y Wash slash, Santa Cruz, Trek the GR20 and more. Believe it or not, they share the story of how they met, offer tips for making a marriage work both on trail and off, discuss how they befriended Mac from Halfway anywhere and Hiking Viking during their many trail adventures, and explain why rafting the Grand Canyon stands out as the most epic adventure of them all. We wrap the show with the news of the asshat who vandalized the Katahdin sign and the Triple Crown of Seafoods and the definitive answer on the age old question of window versus Aisle. But first, if you've listened to this podcast for any period of time, I've sounded like a broken record about the importance of supplementing with electrolytes while backpacking during my first through hike Drink. I landed in the hospital with a condition called hyponatremia, a fancy term for low blood sodium levels. Symptoms included intense headaches and dizziness and generally feeling like a bag of Richards. This happened as a result of heavy sweating over consuming water and under consuming electrolytes. A couple of saline IVs and a hefty medical bill later and my energy was magically restored. In other words, electrolytes and backpacking go together like peanut butter and jelly. Which is why I'm thrilled to introduce today's sponsor, Element. Element is a science backed zero sugar electrolyte drink mix designed to support active hydration and a healthy lifestyle. Element has enough sodium, potassium and magnesium to help you feel and perform your best on trail and beyond. Plus, it has zero sugar, artificial colors or other dodgy ingredients to hold you back. Electrolytes like sodium, potassium and magnesium are essential for energy as well as muscle and brain function. And unlike other electrolyte supplements, Element has generous portions of them. The flavors are awesome, especially the newly launched Lemonade Salt. Some ice cold sugar free lemonade on hot summer's day is just what the doctor ordered. I'm also a big fan of the citrus salt and raspberry salt, but honestly, there's not a bad flavor in the bunch. Free Stuff Alert Backpacker Radio listeners can score a free sample pack which comes with citrus salt, raspberry salt, watermelon salt and orange salt. Two sticks of each, so eight in total with any drink mix purchase by going to drinkelement.com again that's drink element drink lmnt.com trek and you'll get eight free packets. With any drink mix purchase you have to use the URL. No coupon code necessary. Again, that's drinkelement.com trek to get this deal, which is only good for a limited time if you've listened to Backpack Radio, you know that both Chaunce and I are big fans of gossamer gear and manufacturers of lightweight backpacking gear and accessories. Today, let's talk about one of their most iconic products, the LT5 Trekking Poles. These poles are absurdly light, just 4.9 ounces per pole, making them the perfect option for long days and big climbs. They're compact and packable, collapsing down to just 23.5 inches, so you can easily stash them in or on your pack.

Speaker B When you don't need them.

Speaker A The LT5s use a simple, secure twist lock design. No flicks, no fuss, giving you fast, solid adjust that stay locked even over rugged miles. And thanks to their carbon fiber construction, they're strong enough to handle a beating without weighing you down. And of course, we've got a discount for you backpacker radio listeners. You can save 20% off a pair of LT5 trekking poles now through September 30th by using code LT5.2 at checkout@gossamergear.com Again, that's LT5.20, the number 20@gossamergear.com don't wait. This deal is only good for a limited time.

Speaker C Welcome to Backpack Radio, presented by the Trek, brought to you by Element. I am your co host Zach Badger Davis and sitting to my right is.

Speaker B Hi, I'm Sass. We did it.

Speaker A We executed opposite day.

Speaker C It was pretty good.

Speaker A Nice. Well done.

Speaker C Thank you.

Speaker A You do better me than me does me.

Speaker C Oh, okay.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker C You're welcome.

Speaker A A few reminders before we get to today's interview. First is I'm taking on a long distance trek in 2026 and you want to be part of the baddest team in the back country. We are now accepting applications to join our team of bloggers. Many, many, many, many perks. I'm going to flag a couple, then kick it back to Jess. But the big one is, and we're going to do this episode here in the next couple months, I hope, is we're going to fly one of our standout bloggers out and put them up for a night to join us as a guest right here on Backpacker Radio. We've already selected the person for 2025, so that's like I said, coming soon, going to run it back next year. But a lot of other cool stuff. We have a bunch of blogger features, I should say trail specific features for our bloggers including people can display their trail stats, their gear lists seamlessly in the posts and people can easily subscribe to just your updates. Jess. There's a lot more stuff tell us about that.

Speaker C Oh yeah, might get featured on one of our Instagram accounts. That's Appalachian Trail assistant to Crest Trail and at the Trek Co. You also might get a feature on one of our Facebook groups. Going to get an exclusive deep discount at the Tre Store as well as at major backpacking brands. You got a secret Instagram group, got a secret monthly newsletter and a bunch of other stuff like monthly giveaways which are new this year. And also you get to talk to me, which is the real perk.

Speaker A Yep, Jess is always the real perk. Going to add that to your official title here at the Trek. But yeah, link to get involved on the blogging squad is available in the show Notes. Next is I think we'll probably have the application out here very soon, but if you want to be a part of our very popular podcast series Trail Correspondence, which was originally born right here on BACKPACKER Radio, we spun it off to be its own podcast. We're bringing it back for its fifth season next year. I've already had a handful of people reach out asking how they can get involved about this, but we'll have an official application to be next year's Trail Correspondence and I think that will be out by the time you hear this. If not, definitely subscribe to the Trek's newsletter as that's the place where all of our most important announcements go, including the application to be a part of this.

Speaker C Hey Zach, what is a trail correspondent?

Speaker A Yeah, good question. I should probably give a little bit more context. Trail Correspondence is essentially the audio version of what we do via the website. So we're going to hand select about a dozen people across the Triple Crown trails to send in weekly audio recording assignments. They're going to be on various subjects. People will be talking about the mental grind of a through hike, their gear, the social components. Basically anything that you can think of will be curated into a well produced episode. We've got our producer lined up for next year as well. Should probably get him on as a guest of this podcast Light Bulb City. But yeah, everything's in motion for next year's season and it's going to be the best.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Couple more.

Speaker A One is quickly I just randomly asked Jess to give me two random words without any context. She gave me Hammer Donut and Hammer Donut is the discount code that BPR listeners can score a 15% discount. We've got a couple of brand new hats I think we'll they'll be up in the store by the time this comes out. If not again, truck newsletter, but a couple of hats that I'm sure will be very popular. BPR listeners can score a 15% discount but using code HAMMER donut all one word at checkout and encouraging you to listen to podcasts when they come out because that coupon code is only good through the remainder of 2025. Sorry people of the future, last but not least, if you want to support the show, you can do so. Patreon.com backpackerradio not only do you help us keep the wheels turning here at BPR Studio, but you get every episod advertisement free. So again, patreon.com backpacker radio we are incredibly appreciative of your support. Let us do it. Let's get to today's interview with Chris and Sarah, AKA Endless and qb. We are joined by today's guests, Chris and Sarah, AKA Endless and qb, AKA Thru Hiking Power Couple. Endless and QB have been through hiking, traveling, rafting and adventuring together for the better part of 10 years in a row. Far beyond triple crowning, this duo has tackled the AZT, CT Long Trail and hey Duke, as well as trails in Nepal, Italy, Peru and beyond. And listen, qb, thank you for joining us here on BACKPACKER Radio.

Speaker D Yeah, thank you for having us.

Speaker B Thanks for having us.

Speaker A I know that's a very abbreviated intro based on all the trails that you guys have covered. Obviously, we'll get into it. I want to start with what are the trail name origin stories we talked about. What QB is short for a little bit before I hit the record button here.

Speaker D What is QB short for? I mean, it's a short for a couple things, but Queen Bee originally and then now it's like whatever people guess. You know, it's quarterback a lot of the time. Quick break. Quality burrito is a new one.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Quick break.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Do you appreciate a quality burrito? Is that part of your excellence?

Speaker D Absolutely.

Speaker A What's the story behind Queen Bee?

Speaker D There's not really a great story behind it. I just, I Don't know. I guess I call the shots.

Speaker A Is that true?

Speaker B Yeah, she's in charge. I mean, I didn't give her the name, but, yeah, it fits.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Good. What about you? What's the story behind Endless?

Speaker B Endless? Well, my full name is Endless Summer. When I first hiked to pct, I guess I had long hair, was dressed like a slob, and I met these dudes and they were like, they weren't that cool. They were like, walking away from, like, a water stop, and they're like, oh, man, that dude's going for the Beach Bum. Look, we. We'll call him Beach Bum. I was like, stupid. Whatever. I mean, if there's a guy named Beach Bum out there, whatever, your name's cool. It just. It did. It didn't work for me. So then, like, later, I was kind of explaining to some friends and like, oh, man, you do look like a surfer. But, like, how about Endless Summer? I was like, sick.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And they're like, oh, I go with Endless for short. I was like, all right, yeah, I'll try it on.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Oh, and then another. This other couple was like, they're like, oh, they're. They're British. And they're like, oh, yeah, you look like a postman in Britain. A postman in Britain? Well, I had, like a long sleeve blue shirt on. I was like, all right, Postman. That's all right. I'll take that for my middle name. So my full name would be Endless Peace Llama. But it's just been Endless for the.

Speaker A Last, like, Oh, I never knew the P. Middle name.

Speaker B Yeah, yeah. Like Ernest P. Worl.

Speaker E Or like. Yeah.

Speaker A All right, well, I want to address out the gate, the accent, because we get accents from all over the world. We get Southern accents. I think this might be your first Boston accent.

Speaker D I hope people like it.

Speaker E Oh, love it.

Speaker A It's a. It's a taste of America. It's Americana right there.

Speaker D It's my favorite accent.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Thanks.

Speaker A So the thing that existed before Uber and Lyft was what? Well, yeah, what was that?

Speaker B A taxi.

Speaker A Wasn't quite as Bostonian as I was hoping. I'm thinking of all the Boston stereotypes is the taxicab.

Speaker B I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker D I mean, what do you use to start your car keys? Your what?

Speaker B Cockies.

Speaker A All right, thank you for the help there. I knew we'd find it.

Speaker B I get a lot for it. I get a lot. A lot of ribbon, but whatever. Yeah, I've been working on it, you know.

Speaker A Are you trying to I mean, remove it.

Speaker B I feel like, like QB will say like, is you've gotten better.

Speaker D When I first met him, it was. Was actually at Lake Marina, so day one of the pct and his accent was so much stronger back then before like the traveling, I guess. But we literally looked at my friend and I was like, where is this guy from?

Speaker B Like, she's just getting used to it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A So is that like a hardcore. I'm from Boston or is that Boston Burbs?

Speaker B I guess where I'm originally from, Lynn, which is like. Yeah, it's not Boston proper. Lynn is like 10 miles north of the city on the coast.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And I don't know, I never thought I had an accident until I started like traveling and through hiking and stuff. And then I started getting like people like, where are you from?

Speaker A Yeah, but what about some of the hardcore Boston stereotypes? Like, are you a die hard sports fan?

Speaker B No, I would say that I was like, I grew up like really like man, Red Sox, like, like Patriots.

Speaker D And he knows all of the sports answers in jeopardy.

Speaker B So yeah, I was like pretty into it probably in like through the 80s 90s. And then we just started winning so many championships that it was like, wasn't as much.

Speaker A I'm just kidding.

Speaker B It wasn't as much fun. But I've. I've drifted from it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Do you think through hiking has done that to you?

Speaker B Yeah, I think that, I mean, it's hard to like pay attention to sports. Like when you're through hiking, you're just hiking every day. But yeah, I think that I definitely have got away from like, I don't know, I used to watch like every Red Sox game when I was a kid, but now it's cool. Like if they're in the playoffs, any teams in the playoffs, and I'm, you know, home, I'll watch it. But other than that, I don't like, there's just other stuff I want to do with my life to watch sports.

Speaker A Louis CK has got a joke about the Boston accent because I think he lived there for a period of time or maybe he's from there, I'm not totally sure. But he's like, it's not an accent. It's an entire region of people saying words and corrupt correctly.

Speaker B There's all kinds of reasons like that though.

Speaker E Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A And qb, where are you from?

Speaker D I'm from New York originally. Long Island.

Speaker A Yeah, I don't pick up. So that's. That has its own accent, but I don't hear it quite as much.

Speaker D No, I don't I. People pretty much say I don't. I don't have much of an accent.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. Somehow QB escaped, because, like, if you met her family, they. I mean, they give me a hard time, but her family has very strong accents. Like her mom, one of her brothers. Like, it's intense.

Speaker A Is there any sort of issue dating someone from New York? Like, is that. Does the city rivalry exist, man?

Speaker B No, the only, like. And it's fun, but me and Sarah's dad go back and forth a little bit about sports, and it's like, he's got it on me. It's like the Giants beat the Patriots twice, and it's, you know, as many championships as we read. He can. He's always got that and. But now it's cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B He's a Mets fan.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A So.

Speaker B Which is great. So it's like, we're actually going to the Mets with him in a few days. But if he was a Yankees fan, then it'd be a little different because I don't have, like, you know, I don't have any issue with the Mets.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B But I don't remember. 86. I was alive, but I wasn't, like, paying attention.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So I cheer for the Mets for a National League team, but if he was a Yankees fan, it'd be a different story.

Speaker A That's charitable of you. Okay, so I want to make sure we get it. You guys are dating, not married, right?

Speaker B No, we're married.

Speaker A You are married? Remarried. When we did that trip together on our honeymoon, was that the honeymoon? That's how bad my memory.

Speaker B No, that's okay. No, yeah. We've been married five years now.

Speaker A Five years. Okay, I'll get that right. From here on out. So I guess let's start with the origins. Where did you guys first meet?

Speaker D Oh, yeah. So like I was saying, we originally met on the PCT in 2015 at Lake Marina, day one. But we didn't really hike that trail together. We hiked that trail. We hiked maybe 300. No, 100 miles in the desert together as, like, a big group. We became friends, hiked with other people on that trail, and then. But we stuck. We can't. We stayed in touch.

Speaker A Was it love at first sight or did it take a little brewing?

Speaker B No, I mean, we weren't even like. Like. Yeah, we weren't even like, a couple or anything on that trail. Like, we hiked with other partners. We ended up, like, we were just in the same group of hikers. And then, I mean, like, when you.

Speaker A Guys first lock eyes on Each other. Is it star eyes or is it, like, did it take a little while of hiking together and getting to know each other?

Speaker D I was just so distracted by the accent at first.

Speaker B It was like the first day, too. It was the first day on trail. We were at Lake Marina. It's like, this is overwhelming. Anyway, you know, it was my first through hike and I don't know, like, yeah, I was like, oh, this girl's cute. Go introduce myself to her. But anyway, we were just friends for a while. Right. And then. Yeah. The following year, I went hiked to AT and QB had hiked, what, a thousand miles of it? A couple in 13.

Speaker D 13.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So I was in touch with her. I was like, you know, staying in such. Oh, she had come back and she was finishing the miles that she hadn't done in 13. So this is 2016. And I was like, cranking through the AT, so I was keeping in touch with her. I was like, probably would have caught her if, you know, if the trail kept going for her, but whatever. And then she said. She had messaged me. She said, oh, I'm going to hike the Colorado Trail in August. You should come and hike with me and a couple other friends. I said, all right, that sounds great. Is that accurate?

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B And then so we ripped through the at.

Speaker D So we didn't see there.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Well, I want to go back to the pct. How much interaction did you guys have that first year? Was it just like you crossed paths for a little while in the desert and then just like you were at your own paces and didn't see each other again?

Speaker B Oh, yeah, yeah. We were just like, friends. Like, we, like, we were in, like a big group of friends. Like, we all stayed together. There was like 12 of us all stayed together in the teepee at Warner Springs. And I was like.

Speaker D And Kennedy Meadows.

Speaker B Kennedy mixed up. Yeah. And then I didn't see QB until. Not through the Sierra or anything.

Speaker D Yeah, no, we didn't see each other. Yeah. We're just like once an independence.

Speaker B We're friends.

Speaker A Okay. At that point, did you know that there was more interest there or.

Speaker D No?

Speaker A No. Okay. So she invites you out on a hike a couple years later.

Speaker B The following year.

Speaker A The following year.

Speaker B Yeah. And it's still. It's like we both had, you know. All right, QB had a boyfriend at the time, and I don't know whatever I had going on, but totally platonic. It was. It was platonic. And there was five of us the following year that hiked the Colorado Trail.

Speaker D I mean, he had a Huge crush on me. But other than that, that was. That was the extent of it. But we had a lot of fun. We, like. We, like, became really close friends on that trail.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A So there was interest on his side first.

Speaker D I. Yeah. So anyway, who wouldn't.

Speaker A Yeah.

Speaker D On the. On the Colorado Trail.

Speaker A But you're. Wait, so you're in a relationship? I'm just trying to get the time.

Speaker D Yeah, I'm in a relationship.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So it was. It was platonic.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And it was like. And also, it's like we have a big age difference. I mean, I don't know if you. We're 11 years apart, so it's like, I'm 43. QB's 55. No, the other way around. But. So at the time, it was kind of like, you know, and this was nine years ago. So we were. I don't know, at the time, it was like, the age difference was kind of a thing. So it wasn't necessarily like, she's not maybe not gonna be a potential partner. You know what I mean?

Speaker E Whatever. Yeah.

Speaker B So then the Colorado show went great. We became really close. Like, we're good friends. And then. Then we were. We're like, oh, we should do the cdt. Like, we'd both done the pct, the at. And originally it was going to be like, I don't know, a handful of other people were going to do it with us, and we're all going to start together at the same time. And whatever happened, everyone just started bailing. So we started the CDT together, and we didn't really even know, like, all right, we'll start together and then we'll see how it goes, you know? But, yeah, we started the CDT together in 17, and that was our first date. Yeah. We didn't really make it past, like, Lordsburg before, like. Oh, yeah. I don't know, kind of, like, kind of into each other.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B So that was our first date.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Okay. So at what point does your relationship disintegrate?

Speaker D Not long after the Colorado Trail.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Because feelings are starting to emerge. Are totally independent.

Speaker D Oh, totally independent of that. Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D It was time.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Did he have any issue with you having male hiking partner?

Speaker D I mean, no, not really. Because it was like we were hiking in a group. It was five of us.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Okay, so tell me about once the romance ignites on the cdt.

Speaker B It was great.

Speaker D It was really fun to hike that trail. We really feel like New Mexico's a really special state for us because it was just the place where we really got to know each other and fell in love, really. Um, and it was so, like, just, like, fun hiking together.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D We really have, like, a very similar style, similar pace. Obviously, we get along pretty well, so it was really good.

Speaker A I know we'll obviously get to this most recent CT hike, but you guys finished the CT and did a little bit of road tripping in New Mexico. Did it feel like a trip down memory lane?

Speaker D Well, not really. It was a totally different part of the state, but it was. Yeah. I don't know. We love New Mexico.

Speaker B There was a few points, like, because we crossed the CDT a couple times. Like, we crossed the CDT like, up near Chama. We stopped in Chambergar Burrito, and then we stopped in Cuba and went through there and passed the cdc. So I was like, yeah. And we haven't spent too much time in New Mexico since 2017. We only been back there, like, briefly once. So we went down there, and we spent a week down in New Mexico, and it was like, oh, man, this is cool. We were in, like, visiting some friends in Albuquerque. Like, this is a pretty sweet city. It's got, like, really good access to trails, and it's a cool place.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Was your previous partner a hiker at all?

Speaker D Yeah, I mean, we hiked the, like, first thousand miles of the at together. That I did.

Speaker B Okay.

Speaker D But he wasn't really as into it, so.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. So a lot of the hiking that I did after that, even though, while we were still together, was solo. So the pct, the Colorado Trail.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Was that something that you were strongly looking for in a partner at that point, or.

Speaker D I mean, I think I just. Yeah, I mean, wasn't a requirement that they were also a through hiker, but it's a pretty good. It's a pretty good deal when they are.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D They can share this, like, huge part of your life. So it's pretty good.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. The parameters are real limited. Like, the dating pool is, like, if you start being, like, all right, I can only date through hikers that live, like, because we don't live, like, that far apart. We're only, like, four or five hours away from each other. Like, oh, wow, this. This might work out. Just serious through hiker, whatever.

Speaker A It is very limiting. Like, obviously, that's a pretty small pool. Especially, like, you guys are a different level of through hiker, too, because it's been Nonstop, basically since 2015.

Speaker B Yeah, we've slowed down a bit.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Here and there. Some years slower than others. Yeah, we've been through hiking a lot.

Speaker A I want to talk about your line of work, because I find it personally interesting. I'm sure a lot of people listening to this would as well.

Speaker B You're a firefighter? Yeah, I'm a firefighter, yeah.

Speaker A How long you been doing that for?

Speaker B 20 years. What's how.

Speaker A How do you get into that? Like, what's the. Because I know it's a pretty competitive job, so.

Speaker B Yeah, so it's different. All different parts of the country. Massachusetts, we take a civil service test, and you have to do well enough on the civil service test that you get put on a list and then you put in, like, the few towns or whatever that you're. That you're trying to get hired at. And at the time it was like, you have to get like, if you're a resident of that particular city, then you move to the top of the top of that list. And yeah, I was pretty complex at the time. And then you get, like, interviews. You got to get, like a psychological test. You have to pass, like, a physical abilities test. And then eventually, like, you get hired, you get put in probation for a year, you have to go to Massachusetts Fire Academy and get to become an emt. So it was. There was a lot, like, in my first, like, probably like the year leading up to the job, and then like, my first, like, year of like, you know, doing all the requirements, and then I was just sticking with it.

Speaker A Yeah, but why do you think it is that is such a highly sought after job? Because I feel it in myself. And like, maybe it's just something that dates back to, like, people's childhoods. Like, everyone sees firefighters as hero types, but I guess from somebody that, like, walks the walk. Why do you think that is?

Speaker B I think, like, a lot of, like, a lot of kids are like, oh, yes, great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And it's cool. It's a cool job. I really do. I enjoy it. But it's like one of those jobs, like, I don't know, like a lot of jobs. Like, I don't even know what. I don't really understand a lot of different, like, jobs. Unless it was like, in the game of life. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, like a. Whatever, a lawyer or a doctor. I don't know what. I don't know what a data analyst is. Yeah, but so it's like a job that everybody can kind of relate to. Like, people see, you know, when you're a kid and growing up, you see the red trucks and you see, like, you know, everybody knows what firefighter. Totally. But yeah, it wasn't something I was like, it's like, oh, that's pretty cool. I'll take the civil service test and maybe try to do this. Like, I didn't really know what I was doing at that time. I was working in bars and restaurants and stuff. And, yeah, I just did well on the test. I was able to get a job, and then I was pretty happy about it. But I also, like, my father was a firefighter, so I had grown up. His grandmother, one of my brothers, is a firefighter. So it's definitely, like, something that I was very familiar with and I knew was like, okay, you could raise a family, you know, with this job, if that's what you want to do, and it's something that you don't have to have. Like. Like, I wasn't a great student, so I never had, like, a college degree at the time or anything like that, so I thought it was something in my wheelhouse. And then I went and. And I've enjoyed it. Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A You said you've been doing it for 20 years.

Speaker B 20 years, yeah.

Speaker A Do you recall what the physical test was?

Speaker B Oh, they change it, like, every couple of years, but it was. It was intense. Like, we had to do this thing where you had to, like. It was probably like, six or seven different things, and you had to do them in, like, certain amount of time. I don't remember exactly what it was, but one of the things was, like, you had to, like, grab a hose and you had to go. You had, like, 20 seconds, and you had to go into this, like, makeshift, like, tunnel and run around and come out. And then, like, the hose would get caught. Caught on the corners and stuff. And you didn't, like. It's not like I had ever practiced it, so it was like, oh, you get, like, one shot to practice it, and then you gotta do it. So I remember, like, you go out there, like, a few weeks before and you practice it, and I got it, like, right at 20 seconds. I'm like, oh, man, I gotta, like. I gotta pass, like, all six stations or seven stations, whatever it is. So this was the only thing that was, like, this might jam me up. But anyway, fast, you know, flying colors.

Speaker A And I also have in my mind, like, the stereotype of being a firefighter is guys just, like, working out during their shift all the time. Is that a thing?

Speaker B Yeah. I mean, some guys more than others. I got a couple guys I work with. We're. We go out and we run in the mornings, and it's great. Like, we, like. There's like a Pretty good staircase in my city. So we'll like, we'll run up to the top of that and then we run down to the beach. And I don't usually try to get like five or six miles in before shift, so do that and then. Yeah, try to do like a little bit of, you know, light lifting. But.

Speaker A Yeah, so you're ready.

Speaker B Trying to overdo it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A You're ready to rock once you're back into adventure mode and, like, ready to be on trail. Like, the training that you're doing for your job is also suitable for getting back on trail.

Speaker B Oh, yeah. I mean, I gotta, like, I gotta stay in good shape for my job. It's hard, like, if you, you know, you catch fire, it's hard work. So I really try to, like, I run year round and I, you know, I left year round and not nothing too intense, but I got it. Like, it's pretty important.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So. So when I'm like, through hiking, I usually come off a. Through hike and Pretty good shape.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So it's not like, you know, you go on a vacation to whatever some people do, like go to Aruba or something. You might come back from that and maybe need a couple days off.

Speaker E Yeah, right.

Speaker B But I don't know.

Speaker A So give us some stories. Some of the most standout weather, fires or I guess just any sort of on the job.

Speaker B On the job stuff. I don't know. I mean, some stuff I'm not, you know.

Speaker D I think it can be kind of a tough thing. Like, we both work in fields where it's like, oh, tell me your craziest story. And people think like, oh, it's like, going to be something like, like fun and exciting and it's just like, not like, not something that you might want to. That other people really want to hear.

Speaker A Yeah. I mean, you get to filter to whatever you want to share. Obviously, I'm not asking for the.

Speaker B Or I could say, like, I don't know, like a lot of stuff, like, is pretty crazy, but I really only talk about it with other guys I work with that understand it because I don't know. But. All right, let me take some. Let me see something. All right. So when I was, when I first got on, right. I probably had like a year or two on the job. And we get a call for someone in labor, right. Which is not uncommon. You know, people deliver a lot of home births and stuff. And we go and this woman has like, imminent delivery spots to deliver the baby. So we get there in the engine and then like, you know, the ambulance shows up, which is also firefighters, and then, like, another ambulance shows up. All right, so then this woman starts, you know, she goes into labor, and one of the paramedics gets down there, and I was, like, holding a leg. I wasn't down there delivering the baby. The baby's coming out breech, which is very rare for, like, a very. It's just a rare thing to happen. It's very rare to happen in the field. Baby's delivered, healthy. Mom's healthy. Everything. Everything's great. So then a couple days later, a couple days later, like, the news comes over, comes to the station, was like, oh, yeah, we heard about this. We want to do an interview. And so the guys I was working with, they were like, oh, hey. He's like, you know, you're like the rookie or the whatever, you know, you're the new guy. You got to do the interview. I'm like, all right, whatever. It's probably the last time I was mic'd up until now. And the reporters asked me about it, and she's like, asked me to describe it, and I was like, oh, yeah. Well, you know, the baby started out blue and with feet first or whatever, but the way that it came out on the news, it sounded like I said the baby's heart was blue. Right. But I said the baby started out blue. Like, the baby started coming out, like. And so I got a lot of shit for that week or two.

Speaker A That's fun. Have you been on the news since then?

Speaker B No, no, no. I shy away from the camera since then. I didn't know this was going to.

Speaker A Be on the camera. No, it's good. It's.

Speaker B I think that it's probably, like, a few years after that, they're like, don't do interviews. Like, not. I mean, not to me, just to, like, in general.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Someone should have told me that then. If.

Speaker A So if someone young is listening to this and they want to pursue being a fighter. Fighter, can you give it just, like, a blank endorsement?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Stay off the news.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B No, you know what? Yeah, it's a good job. It's like, if you have it in you to, like. I really, like, I get a lot out of it, like, helping people out. And it's also, like, we get to do cool, and you hang out with your buddies and. Yeah, it's a good job. I would say go for it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A How about the compatibility with adventuring? Because, like, obviously, you've been very active the last 10 years. Like, obviously, being fit for the job plays well to doing all these Hikes. But like what about the schedule side of things?

Speaker B So the schedule, it's actually, it's a little tricky. What I do is we have some flexibility with my department and I work a lot of shifts for guys and then I take whatever vacation time or PTO I have. Like if I'm going to take a trip, I take every, any kind of vacation or comp time, which is a little complicated. But then, or guys pay me back. So I work a lot of shifts for guys throughout the winter and then I kind of line up my schedule for what shifts I need off and then I take, I'm able to take usually a decent chunk of time. But you know, and the other side of that is I'm working a ton in the winter or you know, because a lot of guys need, a lot of guys need time off for like childcare issues or for, you know, guys work side jobs or whatever. But you know, for whatever reason. But yeah. And then I'm able to get some time off.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Go home, shave my beard, get back to work.

Speaker A And what is the normal fireman schedule?

Speaker B It's different everywhere.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker B Like we did, we do, we do 24 on a couple days off. 24 on four days off. But that's not the same everywhere. Like we used to do like a 210 hour days and 214 hour nights. It's. I don't know, I don't know what they do all over the place.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A So you must be excellent at night hiking then. Just trained for these long shifts. Do you ever pull up on days just because you like feel like you've got that in you from your work?

Speaker B All right, well, you know, the other night we were working, we were at Repping Steamboat and we were working at Run Rabbit Run.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So we were working like an overnight at an aid station or we're out, actually we're out on the road till like three in the morning just like directing traffic. And then we worked for a couple more hours in the aid station. But for both of us, like we work shift work. So I was like, all right, yeah, whatever, we can work till 5, 6 in the morning, whatever. But yeah, but through hiking, no we don't.

Speaker D I used to night hike a lot more. I don't night hike very much anymore.

Speaker B Yeah, I used to night hike more too. I guess we did. The last time we hiked the pct, we did a fair amount of night hiking and like early on in the desert, like super hot days. Am I misremembering this nodding?

Speaker D Oh yeah. Audio media. Yeah. I don't think we did that much night hiking. We did a lot on the. I did a lot on the 18. I think you did as well.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D He had to get the miles in.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I definitely hiked a lot at night in the 18 and the first time I had the PC.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B But now it's like it would. As a couple, it'd be better because, you know, the other one could watch Alpha Mountain Lions. But like, solo night hiking is like, I don't know.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A And qb, what do you do for work?

Speaker D I'm a nurse.

Speaker A Nurse. Okay.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A So similarly odd schedule.

Speaker D Yeah, exactly.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. So it fits together pretty well. I think that's like a pretty cliche thing. Firefighter, nurse.

Speaker A That is a bilber movie, I'm pretty sure. Is it difficult to align your guys schedules so you can get the same time off? Like, I know that one of the perks of being a nurse is that there's more flexibility, I guess, like travel. Nursing is more flexible, right?

Speaker D Yeah, Yeah. I think it's just been really good to be able to be that flexible. I just started nursing, so it's sort of like a new thing that we're doing. But it's been good so far.

Speaker B Cool. Yeah. Qb, just. What? She went to school a couple years ago and.

Speaker D Yeah, I just got my degree, so.

Speaker A Nice.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A What kind of nursing?

Speaker D I'm a cardiac pulmonary nurse.

Speaker A Yeah, Lots of heart attacks.

Speaker D Heart and lungs. Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Nice.

Speaker D Yep.

Speaker A Okay, back to trail. So, cdt, you're officially an item at that point. Are you guys talking about all the trails that you're gonna do together in the future or is it just like one at a time where.

Speaker B Where.

Speaker A Where you're headed?

Speaker D I'm. I think so. Yeah. I mean, we didn't want that first summer to end, so we. We went right out. We were gonna hike. I had a couple of hundred miles at the end of the PCT to hike, remember? And we were gonna do that at the. After the cdt. And then we ended up not doing that because of the smoke, but we went out to the Olympics and then. Yeah, I think. I don't know, probably. Probably by Colorado. On the. On the cdt, we knew, like, this is like the real deal and we're gonna be doing stuff together in the future, but we were really in the moment, I think too, on that trail.

Speaker B Yeah, I think so. After the cdt. Yeah, that's right. We went out to the Olympics and then we did like, I had like a few more weeks or whatever and we went to Utah For a bit. And then, yeah, we had about four months where QB went back and was living in New York. And then after that, the following year we did the Arizona trail and in March and then we did Nepal. And then we went to Nepal for like a month right after that. And then after that it's like, what? Help me out. Like, come up and move in.

Speaker A And then I obviously met you guys through Java.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Where does Jabba enter the picture for you two?

Speaker D I met Jabba in 2013 on the AT. So he was doing that, like, first Warrior hike back then.

Speaker B Yeah, got it.

Speaker A What was he like on his first hike? Because from what I've gathered, he's actually calmed down a little bit. Like, you know, age will do that to anyone. I can only imagine what sort of a banshee he was.

Speaker D Yeah. I don't know how much more calm he is now, but he definitely was on a level.

Speaker A It is strange, but he's like. I feel like he's 10% calmer than when I first met him and he's still a madman. But.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A Do you have any fun slash embarrassing java stories from 2013?

Speaker D I don't know if I really. I mean, we're just around each other. I don't remember like, super well. I remember also he was on the PCT in 15 too.

Speaker B Yeah, that's where I met him.

Speaker D Yeah. But I think it was interesting he was doing that the Warrior hike, which is. Was just starting that year. Cool program. I think they just had a really tough time because that year they were like, you all have to be together all the whole way and like, be at these, like, specific points on the trail at certain times. I think, like, the stress of. Of trying to do that was pretty tricky.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A That did not jive well for Jabba the Free spirit. Was he the loud guy on trail then?

Speaker B Yes.

Speaker D Yeah. Oh, yeah, of course.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A And then you said that you guys met him again in 15.

Speaker B I met him in 15. I think I met him like, he was southbound in Washington.

Speaker D He's been all over. I don't know.

Speaker B I think I met him in Washington in 15 and then I saw him again. He was doing his. He did like a winter through hike on the AT the following year.

Speaker A Yeah, that's right.

Speaker B So he was going southbound again. I met him like, I don't know, down south of at.

Speaker A I'm now connecting the timeline because. Yeah, so he did a section of the PCT and the gun got off. And then we hiked a big chunk of the Colorado trail to go there and Then that's when he went on to the at.

Speaker E Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B We just kept running into this dude.

Speaker E Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker D The way it happens when you're on the trails, it just keeps seeing people.

Speaker B Totally.

Speaker A Another serendipitous run in we were talking about before. Hit the record button. Here is how you guys are friends with Twinkle and Grace.

Speaker B It's true.

Speaker A What's that story? Familiar names to the podcast.

Speaker B All right, so we first met these two. We were hiking the Arizona trail and we were up in the. We were like on the last day, right? And these guys were on the. Hey, Duke. And the two trails coincide for a little bit. I don't know how many miles, but whatever. So we ended up just like we're bullshitting with them for like 15, 20 minutes. And I was like, oh, man, we haven't met, like, really anybody on this trip. Would have been great if we, like, met some more people to hike with and stuff. But so we exchanged information and. Oh, you know what they had told us, like how they did the hey, Duke. Which was the first, like a big section at the beginning. They had rafted with like the Intex Explorers, like, basically like pool toys for like 70 miles of the. Of the Colorado River. Yeah, that sounds cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And anyway, so we like exchange information. We're like, all right. And they were doing like this big, like year long trip, right? And we've been in touch with them. Like we had them on like Instagram, right. But we really hadn't seen them in a while. And then 2022, we were doing a trip in Peru on the Huay Wash, and we had like, we'd taken this, like, it took forever for us to get there. We were out, we were rafting in Montana. And then for some reason we didn't have the flight. We were supposed to fly out of Seattle, but we didn't have a flight to Seattle. So we ended up taking like a bus from Missoula to Seattle and then we're trying to fly to Lima, Peru, and we get to Mexico City and there was some problem. We couldn't get back on the plane. So we had to get stuck in Mexico City for a couple days. Then we fly to Peru and we took like a 10, 12 hour bus from there up to Juarez, which is the city that's like the launch into the Cordillera Blanca.

Speaker D Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B So we like, we took this bus and then we're like, we've been on. We've been traveling like straight traveling for like four, four days. And then we get to this Town, and it's like a mile. Like, all right, we just walk. So we walked across the city and then we're checking into this little hotel that we had booked and we're checking in. And so I was like, endless qb, like, had no idea this dude was. He was on the same bus or. I mean, they both were. They were on the bus going from Lima. They must have been, like, on the top deck, we're on the bottom deck or whatever. So anyway, they were starting the Y wash like, I don't know, a day or two before us, but we ended up hanging out with them down there for a few days and then it was great.

Speaker A That's fun.

Speaker B Yeah. But then it gets a little bit stranger, right? So two years ago, we were in. We were attempting to do a hike in the Pyrenees and we never finished this hike, but it's beside the point. So we meet this couple from New Zealand and they were doing this thing like a year long, like, round the world trip. Was like, oh, that's cool. Right? And they're like, oh, we're thinking. And they had. They had hiked a PCT before. So they were like.

Speaker D They were thinking about doing the hey, Duke. Right?

Speaker B And we were like, oh, you should do this. Right.

Speaker A We're explaining them to them like, this.

Speaker B Is what you should do with the pack graphs and whatever. I mean, like the Intex explorers. Like, poor man's powercraft.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And. All right, cool. So it's like, stay in touch with them. We kind of give them some beta around the hey, Duke. And then maybe like six months later, we got a message from this dude James, and he's like, hey, I ran into some friends of yours down in Escalante. And I ran into Twinkle and Grace. It's wild, right?

Speaker A They're just everywhere. They're omnipresent.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D Such a small world.

Speaker B Yeah, it's wild.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Okay, so trying to get us back at the timeline. That Peru encounter was 2222. Okay. There's some other trails here that I want to talk about before we get to that part of the story. So you did the AZT after the cdt. Did you know when you finished CDT that you were going to do the act the following year or. When did that come on?

Speaker B We knew we were going to do Nepal, like shortly afterwards, we're going to go. We went with a couple other friends to Nepal. And then. Right. And then we're like, I'll do something before that for like a month to get ready and.

Speaker D Yeah, good timing.

Speaker A I Still don't want to. Yada, yada. These trails, are there any stories like you guys being charged by grizzlies or struck by lightning or anything?

Speaker B Man. Did either of those things happen?

Speaker D Not in Nepal. Or the azt.

Speaker B You know what I remember about the azt, Right? So this is like. It's like, the first thing I can always think of is, so for a long time before that, I didn't cook on trail. And, like, on the cdt, neither of us cooked. Right? But on azt, we're like, all right, we're gonna cook dinners. And we're like, well, for whatever reason, we, like, got all our food beforehand. And we had mailed us boxes, and we had mailed ourselves this, like, super spicy ramen. And we had, like, probably, like six or eight times on the trail. And it was just so. Like, first thing, I think, was what? It was so spicy, I could not handle it. And I can eat spicy food, but. And then towards the end, I was like, I keep shaking her head. But at the end, I was like.

Speaker A Is this like, a ramen that you doctored up or, like, specifically?

Speaker B It's just, like, wicked spicy. And then it's like, all right, so.

Speaker D This is the equivalent of getting struck by lightning.

Speaker B That's bad.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B No, the azt, it was cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A Piece of cake.

Speaker D Yeah. Nepal was really fun, too.

Speaker B Nepal is sick. Yeah.

Speaker A Tell me about Nepal. That's. That's.

Speaker D We went with. Well, I bet you probably. I think you've interviewed Mac.

Speaker A Many moons ago.

Speaker D But, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we went with Mac and another. Another one of our friends, Moyes. Yeah. But, yeah, it was a really. It was a fun trip, but it was kind of crazy. We did a circuit around the Mana Slough Mountain, and so it requires a guide. We had our guide, Gopal, also known as Mountain Tiger. That was his trail name.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B It was like. It was probably, like, three or four days into it. We were all going by trail names, and he's like, well, I have a trail name, too. It's Mountain Tiger. It's like, why didn't you tell us that, like, right away?

Speaker A I should have started with that. How long is the Mana Slough circuit?

Speaker D That's a good question.

Speaker B They measure everything in hours over there. So it's like this many hours to the next tea house or. Yeah, but how many miles?

Speaker D I think we probably did in about 10 days or so.

Speaker A 10 days?

Speaker D Yeah. And then we did an outback on there as well.

Speaker B Tatsum Valley?

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D But it was, like, this big Thing because we needed to find a guide who would be able to. Who would be willing to do, like, the mileage that we. That we wanted to do. So Mac had been. Gotten to Kathmandu a couple of days before us, and he was, like, interviewing guides to make sure that we've had one who could. Who could really keep up and go. Paul set the pace. Yeah, he was. He was something else.

Speaker A Have you guys trekked in Nepal since?

Speaker B No.

Speaker D No, we haven't. We'd like to.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B What were.

Speaker A So what were some of your favorite, least favorite parts?

Speaker B Oh, I tell you my least favorite part. Yeah, I got really sick, like, poisoning or. Oh, who knows? But I got really sick. So it was like three days in. And, you know, everybody. Oh, everybody over there eats Dalbat, right? So Dalbat's like, the meal everybody has every night, right? And everyone eats it with their hand. So it's like two or three days. It's like, this. This is me now. This is what I'm doing, right? I'm eating Dalbat in my hand. And then, like, that night.

Speaker A Can you explain what Dalbat.

Speaker B Dalba is?

Speaker D Rice and lentils.

Speaker B Rice. Yeah. And like, pickled vegetables are like. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B You know, and then everybody makes it, like, a little bit different. Every tea house makes a little different. Yeah, it was really good. But so, like, three nights in, and I was like, man, I'm starting to not feel good. And we saw this big spider in the room. I was like, that's bad omen, right? So every. Like, you're not, like, camping out necessarily. You're going, like, to a little village, and then you stay in a tea house, which is basically like, if you have a house, you have a hotel, like. And so we had a room and stuff. So I saw this spider. It's like, all right, it's not good. And then the next day, we make it to lunch, and I'm, like, really struggling. I get to lunch and I'm sick. So I'm like, you know, both ends, like, throwing up shit. And it was bad. Anyway, so that we had, like, a big climb that afternoon, and I was in really rough shape. Get it done. And then, so Gopala, mountain tiger. He's like, the next day, we're doing this big out and back to Tsum Valley. He's like, listen, if you don't. If you can't do it, you stay here. We'll all go to do the out and back. We'll come back. Hopefully you can rejoin us, right? And. Which would have been a bummer. For me to miss. But. And then he's like, and if you can't, then you gotta get helicoptered out of here. It's like, that sounds horrible. Yeah, I won't do that at all. So anyway, he's like, all right, well, you can try some mountain medicine. Like, all right. So he pulls out, like, this huge clove of garlic, and he's like, eat this. All right. I ate it.

Speaker A When your stomach's already feeling bad, stomaching a thing of raw garlic, which messes with me by that. Like, I can't eat pesto on an empty stomach because it will make me sick.

Speaker B Yeah. You know what? I don't think that garlic really was. I was like, just, whatever, man.

Speaker A I'll try anything.

Speaker B I'll try anything. I was really. It was in a bad way. And then he's like, all right. And then he.

Speaker D He was like, all right, now I'm gonna make this little drink for you to drink. And he takes, like, a ton of sugar and salt. And then he takes a cup of water, and he's, like, pouring them back and forth for, like, 15 minutes, mixing them, like, I can't believe how long this is going on for. And he's like, all right, drink this.

Speaker A It's literally just sugar and salt.

Speaker D Sugar and salt. Yeah. To, like, flush the system.

Speaker B It was like. But he's doing it as, like, this is. You know, this is comical. Like, are you, like. You're doing this for show? Like, it was ridiculous amount of time where he's going back and forth. I'm like, all right. So I just. I slugged the whole thing, and then, you know, I'm wiped out. And I go. And I go to bed, and then I woke up in the middle of night, and I'm like, you know, flushing myself. I can't make it to the toilet. It was bad.

Speaker D And.

Speaker B And. Yeah, but on, like, the, like. The positive side of that is, like, QB really took care of me, cleaned me up. And I just, like. I just remember thinking at the time, I was like, I never had a woman, like, take care of me like that. I was like, all right, let me make. To try to make this work.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Gotta lock this down.

Speaker B Yeah, I gotta lock this down. Yeah, this is a pretty good thing I got. It's like, all right. It's memorable.

Speaker A How long after that did you propose?

Speaker B Oh, I don't know if there was ever, like, either one of us proposed to the other. We just kind of made a decision. We were hiking the Hayduke, so the following year. And.

Speaker D Yeah, it was kind of like a similar thing where it was like we were going through something. Like, we were just, like, in this canyon that was, like, full of mud, and it was like, really on, like, not good walking, really hard, rough day. And we're like, oh, like, we're still having, like, a good time. If we can have a good time doing this, maybe we should just get married.

Speaker A So you skipped the formal proposal step in the process.

Speaker B Oh, yeah. There was no, like.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D He didn't get down on one knee. There's too much.

Speaker A Yeah, right.

Speaker B It was too much mud.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I don't want to get muddy.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A And so you've been married. So you got married in 2020?

Speaker B Yes. Yeah, we got. It was. I guess you could say it was a Covid wedding, but it was during COVID and we.

Speaker D It was really small.

Speaker B Yeah, it was really small. It's just, like, immediate family. So what we did was we got married my parents yard, and they had a pool at the time. And we're like, all right, we'll have a pool party. Well, we didn't want to, like, tell.

Speaker D Anybody originally, like, before COVID before everything. We're like, all right, we're just going to have a pool party, and we're just going to tell people that, and they're going to come, and we're just going to get married, like, at the pool party.

Speaker A Oh, yeah.

Speaker B One of my brothers would tell one person it was. One of my brothers was the justice of the peace, and he's just going to be like, he's going to marry us. And that was like. That was what our plan was.

Speaker D Yeah. And then Covid derailed it a little bit, but it was better, honestly. Cause it was just really. Our close families.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D We did have to tell them that it was a wedding, because otherwise they'd be like, why do you want us to come to Massachusetts?

Speaker B Sure.

Speaker D During a pandemic.

Speaker E Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B Basically.

Speaker A Did you wear a dress, or do you wear, like, a melee or.

Speaker D I wore a dress. I got my dress at a thrift store.

Speaker A Nice.

Speaker D I wore Tevas.

Speaker A I think there's some hiker trash involved there.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A That's awesome.

Speaker B No, it was cool. And we did, like, for, like, the sake of, like, keeping everybody safe, because it was a crazy time. Right. So the, like, the two weeks before we went up to. We hiked, like, the coast trail in northern New Hampshire. We had finished the long trail. We didn't end up, like, section hiking the long trail anyway, so we kind of isolated, quarantined ourselves beforehand. So Just so nobody gets the wrong idea that we were, like, having this big super spreader event, which we were very aware of.

Speaker A It's 20, 25 now. I don't think anyone cares about that anymore. I think the statute of limitations has lifted.

Speaker B All right.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Nobody cares.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I'll speak to myself. I don't care. If you said that you were sneezing into a communal bucket, I wouldn't have thought differently. Okay. So the circuit. I need to know the end of this. Sugar, salt water, so.

Speaker B Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A Did that work at all?

Speaker B Oh, it completely flushed me out. Right. Cuba clean me up.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A And that's how you knew you're ready to be a nurse, too.

Speaker B All these things happen for a reason, right?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And then the next. The next morning, I felt great, really. And I hiked out to Tsum Valley, came back, and I was fine for. So after manuscript circuit, Mac and Moist, like, went back to Kathmandu or whatever they were doing. And then it a butts the Annapurna Circuit. So QB and I are like, oh, let's just go to. Right. So we're like four days into the Annapurna Circuit or whatever it was, and I got sick again. But it could have been like an altitude thing. So we ended up not finishing that. But also, it wasn't just me. It wasn't like everybody got sick. Like, QB got sick at one time.

Speaker A Do you tribute that to the elevation or to the food or.

Speaker D I think it's more of like a. Not an. If you get sick in Nepal, it's like a. When.

Speaker A Got it.

Speaker D You get sick.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Were you tempted to do the sugar salt shake back?

Speaker B We were like, let's just get out of here. Yeah. So then we ended up, like. We like, ended up having to hitch back and we ended up getting to Pokhara. I don't know. It was. No, it was pretty wild. But we, you know, we were still in Nepal for a bit longer. We did this, like, trek out of Pokhara, Marijamal, which was pretty sweet.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. Cool.

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Speaker D Yes.

Speaker B 2018. Yes we did. I don't remember where we went.

Speaker D We went all over. We found. I finally finished the PCT that year.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Because in PCT in 15 we both got jammed up with fires like up in Washington right at the very end. Which is the thing. I was able to go back in 16 and I finished. We had to go from lake Stevens pass to the border and QB had basically most of Washington.

Speaker D Yeah. From White's pass on.

Speaker B Oh yeah. So this, what we're doing in 18 is we were running a race. We're doing a 50 mile race down in Oakland and we were just, just driving all over, doing cool stuff, visiting friends, trying to like train for this race. Like doing big long runs and yeah, we did that. We did the sunshine coast trail which is in just north of Vancouver. We did the Juan de Fuca trail which is on Vancouver island.

Speaker D Some of the Sierra higher out.

Speaker B Oh yeah. About half of that. We ran the Timberline trail. That was fun. That was tough.

Speaker A How, how long does that. I mean I know how long the trail is, like 41 miles.

Speaker B How long? Like that.

Speaker A How long did the run take?

Speaker B All day.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B But you did it in a day.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Are you guys still trail running?

Speaker D Yeah, we're.

Speaker B We're actually doing a run. We're doing a run in Moab in a couple months. 50 mile run. So that's like a next thing we're getting ready for.

Speaker B That we have like that we have to do.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Do you backpack quickly? Cuz I feel like. No, I feel like most trail runners, like there's always a fine line between that and then like you're blending into FKT culture.

Speaker B Oh no, no.

Speaker A But like, when you're running, you're running, and when you're backpacking, you're. You're moving slowly.

Speaker D I mean, we're. We're moving, like, at our pace, which I don't think we. I don't think we walk at a particularly fast pace. We do walk, like, all day usually. Like, like sun to sun, generally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B So we could do big miles, but we're not like. I mean, we're not like, beating the bag out of anybody out there. Like, we're doing our best to keep up.

Speaker D I mean, unless. Did hike the 1880 days, which I think is a little abnormal quick.

Speaker B But I had to get to that Colorado trail that year.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A What year is the 80 day? 80.

Speaker B I did it 18. 2016. 2016.

Speaker A Okay, so this is. That's your second.

Speaker B Second long distance hike?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Were you on some sort of a time crunch or you just want to challenge yourself?

Speaker B Well, all right. So a little of both. Right. At first it was like. So I had to. I was actually the jp, the justice of the peace for my buddy's wedding, and that was like, July 8th or something. And I figured. So I was in Massachusetts, so I figured I would just get to, like, North Adams or whatever. The town's out in Western Mass. And then I would hitchhike back and go do the wedding, then hitchhike back to the trail or whatever. And then I kind of got into. I kind of got into a good groove. And I had done, like, I had done big miles in the PCT the year before, so I was pretty used to, like, all right, you know, started out the trail, and it's like, I didn't think, like, 25 miles was that big of a deal. So I was doing big miles throughout the trail. And then I was like, man, if I really hustle, I could probably get this done, the whole thing done, and then go do the wedding. And also around that time, QB was like, oh, yeah, you should pick up the pace and come and hike the Colorado trailer bass.

Speaker A So there was a carrot.

Speaker B Carrot. Multiple carrots.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Right, right.

Speaker B And yeah. So then it was like. And then I took it on as, like, this challenge. Like, I was like, really? And I felt it was great. I love the 80.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And I was, like, really into, like, I really want to crush. And at the time, I was just, like, in really good shape. I was. For years, I've been trying to get.

Speaker A Back to that, but 80 days isn't. So that's like 27 miles per day.

Speaker B Something like that.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I mean, for most 80 hikers. And like, granted, most time, that's people's first trail. Like, they're lucky to do that one or two days, like, to average heavens.

Speaker B Right. I mean, I. I don't know. It's nowhere near the times that, like, you know, the fkt people are doing it, but at the same time, it's, like, too fast that I don't recommend it, you know?

Speaker B So it was cool. It was very solo. Like, I met a ton of people, but it wasn't like I stuck with people and. But it was definitely, like, this really cool challenge. I was really like, it's like, this is cool.

Speaker A Yeah, sure.

Speaker B And then I get that.

Speaker A What was your start date on the.

Speaker B At. My start date was April 17th, and I finished on July 5th.

Speaker A So did you. You really didn't have to deal with snow, did you?

Speaker B No, the weather was great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. If you wanted, like. If you want to avoid, like, shitty weather.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I shouldn't say the weather was great. It rained a ton of. But I mean, like, there was no snow in Georgia, and there was, you know, I got up to New Hampshire, Maine. It wasn't that buggy.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B But just like, thunderstorms, and I had a lot of rain, but.

Speaker A Were you wrecked afterward?

Speaker B I felt great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah, I felt great. I was like. Yeah, I went out. I did, like, I went to that wedding, and then I went out to Oregon and hiked, like, I don't know, section of Oregon with my buddy that had to do it. And then I went from there to the Colorado Trail and I hiked with Wonderland Trail. Yeah, I ended up doing the Wonderland Trail after that. Yeah, I did the Colorado Trail. Then I went back up to Washington to the Wonderland Trail and maybe a few other things.

Speaker E Oh.

Speaker B And then at end, I also. I finished. So I. I regrouped with my friends from the PCT the year before, and I did the last, like, whatever. 180, 190 miles from Stevens Pass. I did a lot that summer. Yeah.

Speaker A Sounds like.

Speaker A Have you guys done a loose tally on how many miles you've done? I know there was obviously a period where you're doing different trails before you had met each other.

Speaker D Yeah, he has a few more than I do, I think.

Speaker B Yeah, that's right.

Speaker A I started before him, but are you competitive about that?

Speaker B No, no. Yeah, we probably have a loose tally.

Speaker A What is that number?

Speaker D Mine's probably like 16 ish.

Speaker A 16.

Speaker D Yeah. Yours probably like 17.

Speaker B A little bit more than 16 ish.

Speaker A And how much of that Is together a lot.

Speaker B Probably.

Speaker D Did, like, 11, maybe.

Speaker B Okay. I was gonna say, like, five or six thousand on our own, and then.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. We've been hiking pretty consistently together. Like, we've done, like, shorter trips here and there since we've been together, but, yeah, we spent a lot of time hiking together.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Is the relationship easier on trail or off?

Speaker D Oh, it's always easy. That's the right answer, I think. I think there's something really, like, about being on trail for us, that is really easy because that's where our relationship started. And there's that, like, constant dopamine drip, and, like, everything is amazing.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D But it worked out for us that it is good at home, too.

Speaker A That's nice.

Speaker D Yeah. And we do a lot of stuff at home together, too. Running and.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A If you guys are gonna have a disagreement on trail, what is it typically over?

Speaker D Oh, usually one of us is hungry or both of us are hungry. That's, like, a. Definitely a factor.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B A disagreement, though, like.

Speaker A Who gets hangry more often?

Speaker D He definitely does.

Speaker B In my nature. Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Well, we got some candy down here.

Speaker B We actually got a pupusa around the corner. Oh, yeah, That's a good spot. Yeah, they're really good. Yeah. And, yeah.

Speaker D I don't know, sometimes we get into, like, a little bit of, like, a pickle of, like, all right, when are we going to get to town? Like, how hard are we going to push through this section? Sometimes.

Speaker B But, yeah, that's like a. I think this is, like, one of our things that we do is, like, oh, yeah. It's like, we'll plan out for town, and we did pretty well in the Colorado trailer. We just did, like, we'll plan out for town this many days, and then we'll be like, well, if we did, like, maybe, like, five or six miles more each day, we could get there the night.

Speaker D We're always pushing. We're always like, we. We love being on trail, and we don't like being in town that much, but when we're on trail, we want to be in town.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D So we always.

Speaker A I feel like that's the constant through hiker push and pull.

Speaker D Right.

Speaker A Once you're in town for a few hours, you're like, I really want to be on trail. But, like, something about getting to town and having a cheeseburger that's like. That is enticing.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D But they do a pretty good job of communicating with each other on trail and, like, setting expectations. I think that's really important.

Speaker A Was it difficult to adjust because you guys became an item on the CDC after that first hike, then transitioning that to an off trail relationship because like you guys have to figure each other out. Doing it on trail I feel like is there's just fewer things to disagree on. But like figuring each other out off trail is a much bigger.

Speaker D Yeah. And I think for us too, especially because we have this age gap and we were in kind of different places in our lives a little bit or a lot in a lot of ways. Kind of figuring out where we fit into each other's lives at home. Took a little bit of doing.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B But it's been good. Yeah. Took a little figuring out and then. Yeah.

Speaker D I think it's like that Bernie trail couple that transitions to home life. Like it's gonna be a challenge going from this like especially if it's your first through hike together or like, you know, your first thru hike at all. You're like also dealing with all different kinds of adjustment issues going home.

Speaker B Sure.

Speaker A Okay, so give me two pieces of advice. One for aspiring couples who are both interested in becoming hiker trash, one piece of advice for how to manage the relationship on trail and then the off trail component.

Speaker D Yeah, I mean I think like really important for, for a couple that's thinking about through hiking is communicate, talk about the things that could go wrong before you even start hiking. Like talk about your expectations. What's going to happen if one of you is injured, what's going to happen if one of you wants to get off trail? Like no kind of deal with some of those things beforehand so you're not on trail like stressing out about like what's going to happen if, I don't know, we need to take a few days off or whatever, you know.

Speaker A Yeah, that makes sense. Have you guys had a situation where someone gets, you start a trail together, someone gets badly hurt, then you have to decide like is, am I bailing? Am I continuing on?

Speaker D I mean it. We haven't really had a situation like that where it was like one of us is going to stay on trail. We've had to bail on trails before, but we've, we've always pretty much stuck together.

Speaker A And that was something that you had discussed before getting on trail or is that something that figured out like in the moment?

Speaker D In the moment. Some, some situations you can't really plan for.

Speaker B Yeah, sure.

Speaker A And who was the one that got off with the injured or like who got hurt? What was the circumstance?

Speaker B I think we've both had.

Speaker D Well, when we were, I was thinking.

Speaker B When we were in Peru, over in Peru. I got hurt. Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. He tore his meniscus in Peru. And we were, like, way out there. Like, really far out there. So it was like, obviously, we both have to try to figure out how we're going to get you home together.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A What's the story behind turning the meniscus?

Speaker B Well, QB will say that I've been complaining about. I've been complaining about my knee since she met me, but my knee. Something was mad with my knee beforehand, so I had hurt my knee. And I'm like, man, this is. It's bothering me, but I can still. We'll go and do the trip. Whatever. So we were down in Peru, and we did the white wash, and then we went and we did this other hike that we were trying to do. And I, like, crouched down one evening and I just, like, whatever. Tore it. Like, it was like, all right, I can't. And I had been hobbling for, you know, a few weeks, but I tore it. And then I was, like, really limping out of there. So it's like, I told her. I was like, I gotta go home. I gotta get the surgery. Because it had been like, I potentially could have got the surgery like, a month before we left or sometimes, like, it's not enough time for it to. We got this trip coming up, whatever. And so we ended up. She was like, all right, well, if we get to this next town, which is only like six or eight miles away, there's a bus that goes to this other town, and it's like, a long bus. And this other town was, like, on the far side of the mountains from, like, any, like, from, from, like, where.

Speaker D We were based on the. On closer to Lima, I think.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Which was still 10 hours from Lima by bus.

Speaker B Yeah. So we ended up going to this town. I'm gonna butcher the name.

Speaker D Palma Bamba.

Speaker B Yeah, Palma Bamba. And it was great because we got there and it's, like, very few tourists, if any. And definitely we didn't mean it. Again, it wasn't like any Americans were there, but the place was really cool. They treated us really nicely. There was, like, this big festival that was going on, and all these different, like, dance tribes were coming out of the mountains to, like. Like, man, this is pretty good luck that we showed up here. And, yeah, it was just like this big, cool thing. And then from there, we had to, like, I don't know, take, like, a big. Another long bus ride to Karaz. Right. And then ended up coming home and I had to get knee surgery, which is a bit of A drag.

Speaker D Yeah. So not like the kind of situation where somebody can stay on trail.

Speaker A That makes sense.

Speaker B And we've had other like, oh, sorry to skip this wire.

Speaker A Are you good?

Speaker B So we've had other things where we've had to like, I don't know, like maybe one of us isn't completely feeling it or both of us aren't feeling it, but one more than the other that we've ended up bailing on trails or another time we're in Europe together and we had like a family thing that we had to come home for. And it wasn't even like this isn't even like a question, like if we're gonna.

Speaker E Oh, you.

Speaker B You stay.

Speaker A Yeah, right.

Speaker B You stay. Send me some pictures.

Speaker D Maybe if we were on a long trail and it would be different, like, oh, like you just hitch up to the next town and I'll hike on. But it's never. That's never really come up for us.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A For the meniscus. Did they remove it?

Speaker B No, I got it trimmed. Got trimmed. And yeah, the doctor did a really good job, I guess because, I mean, I've been like. It took a while, but I'm back to hiking and running and yeah. You know, probably a little slower than I was. Sure.

Speaker A I have a portion missing in both of my knees and like, generally speaking, my knees are doing really well, but I'm just worried that the day like a matter of if not when. So.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So you. You had them trammed, both of them?

Speaker A Yeah, I tore ACLs in both knees and part of that was also having damage meniscus. So, yeah, I knock on wood. I'm doing all right now, but I'm just waiting for the day for that to go bad. I'm wondering, does have having a chunk of the meniscus gone in one of your knee, does that run through your brain with all the running that you do? Cuz like, I feel like I limit my running because I feel like that's just going to wear them out faster than other things, you know?

Speaker B I really haven't thought about it until you just browse.

Speaker A Well, you're smart. You stay lighter than I do. So it's less of a toll on your knee compared to me. But we try. With how busy you guys are, it's, I'm sure, very easy. Okay. Got a lot of stuff on the trail resume here, I guess. Tell me about the honeymoon road trip.

Speaker B Honeymoon road trip we did there. That was a 2020.

Speaker D Yeah, we did a bunch of stuff. We were trying to like in 2020. So we were trying to like do a lot of loop hikes. So we ended up just like kind of going all over.

Speaker B Oh yeah. So we wouldn't have to hitch.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B So originally we're supposed to go to Venice and I mean we're flying to Venice and then we're going to do like two or three months in Europe, right?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B 2020.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah, I know how that story ends then.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A You did the Co Host Trail.

Speaker B Yeah. Co Host Trail is in northern New Hampshire. Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Oh, you did that. That was like a pre.

Speaker B Yeah, it was right before our wedding. We did that.

Speaker A We've talked a lot about, I think. I feel like every trail that's existed. I don't know if we've actually talked about this one at all. Give us the rundown on this. Cuz I feel like this should be a more popular trail.

Speaker B Oh, the cross trail.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B It's cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D I mean it goes from like the. It starts in the Presidential Mountains in. In the Whites, in. In New Hampshire and then it goes up to the border. So it's about 160ish miles. I think that could be totally off. I don't know.

Speaker B Yeah, no, that sounds about right. Yeah.

Speaker D We did it in like six days. Was probably a little bit too fast for comfort. Yeah. But it's kind of cool. It's a cool trail. I mean there's. It's. It's goes by a bunch of areas that we would never have visited in New Hampshire otherwise. I think that was kind of cool.

Speaker A Is the trail pretty well marked aside from the section in the Whites?

Speaker D No, I don't think so.

Speaker E No.

Speaker D I don't really remember if it was what. It might be totally different now though. This is five years ago.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Yeah.

Speaker B Like at the time I think they had like one shelter. It was nice, but it was like, you know, maybe it's built up more since then, but remember up north and like Pittsburgh. But it was cool. It was cool to see that part of New Hampshire because I grew up in Massachusetts, you know, I'm only a couple hours from the White Mountains. And I always thought that like New Hampshire ended at the White Mountains, but there's a whole nother. Whatever it is, you know, and there's some. I don't know. Pittsburgh is a cool town. I think we went to like there's a couple other towns that you can kind of go through. Colebrook. I might be misremembering the names, but yeah, Coastal. If you're looking for something to do in Northern New England.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And you've done a bunch of other stuff that. But it's worth getting at.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Would you recommend it over something like the long trail, maybe?

Speaker B Long trail is hard.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. I mean, the long trail is like a more. Definitely more scenic trail, like a more traditional through hiking experience. I think so. I'm not sure if I, I. I would say, like, if you've done the long trail, you've done the at through those sections. The coast trail is pretty cool.

Speaker B Okay. Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Soft endorsement. The Sawtooth Honeymoon Loop.

Speaker B Is that what it's called?

Speaker A No, that's what it's in my notes. I think Sarah might have been getting romantic with the name.

Speaker D No, we just. We. We did a loop in the. We did a loop in the Sawtooths. It was great. It's beautiful. The Sawtooths are a really cool mountain range, and we just kind of. We looked at a bunch of different places where we were going, and we could just made some loops. Not like any particular. We were like, that exists.

Speaker B But yeah, we kind of wanted to just, like, explore some different areas. And it was like, at the time, it wasn't like. Like, people weren't through hiking. So we were gonna go and get into these mountains. And, you know, Sarah just made, like, a big loop because that's, you know, she runs a show. Like, she said what we're gonna do. Like, all right. That looks good.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And, yeah, we did a loop in the Sawtooths, which is. I mean, you've been that to the saw, too.

Speaker A No, I've been. This is a area of interest for me because two years in a row, I've had very concrete plans to go hike. Last year, there were the fires in that area, and then this year, I had a very small window to make it happen, and I got, like, viciously sick the week I was supposed to leave for it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A It's still at the top of my domestic bucket list, because every photo I've seen looks amazing. But that's why I'm super curious about this one.

Speaker B It was some really good lakes.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Did you do a version of. There's. So there's the Grand Loop and there's the Wilderness loop.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A You just went and drew a line?

Speaker D Pretty much. Yeah.

Speaker B I think it was a figure eight. Figure eight.

Speaker D It was a lollipop loop.

Speaker B All right.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Good swimming and, like, right near there, I remember there's just, like, some awesome hot springs.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. I remember. You know, we ran some dude, and it's like Queen Bee. It's this guy, he had given us a ride. We're hitching in. We ran into him up in the.

Speaker D On the Hayduke in Hanksville. He gave us a ride and he was like, oh, queevy gave you a ride? Like, we saw him in the Sawtooths. And we're like, how. Where do these people come from?

Speaker A Yeah, the Loubet Trail.

Speaker B Oh, that goes around Mount St. Helens.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker B Yeah. So that one is. We ran that's like 30 miles maybe. Got it. And Louis Trail is cool. We, you know, we could have probably done it where we got up to the summer. We just. This never happened. But it was really hot. We were there and it's pretty dry. It feels like you're on the moon. And then you get to this spring and like we were probably like 25 miles in and we were probably like out of water or whatever. I don't, I don't remember the mileage, but I just remember just being like as thirsty as I've ever been in my life. And we get to this spring and it was just glorious. It was like.

Speaker D It was like flowers all around it. Like the trees were like, oh my gosh.

Speaker B It's like the gas. Right. And this, like little waterfalls.

Speaker A It's like bunnies popping. Butterflies.

Speaker B Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A How does the Lewet Trail compare to something like the Timberline Trail?

Speaker B I would say that it. I think the Timberline Trail would be more scenic because you get more like Timberline Trail is like a little bit harder, but if you get a little bit less time. Just do the trail. Sure.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And I mean, I'm sure people backpack it, but I don't know what the.

Speaker D What the deal is.

Speaker B Yeah, I don't know what the deal is for like camping or whatever, permits and all that.

Speaker A What's your guys longest trail run?

Speaker B I'm not.

Speaker D 150 is probably my.

Speaker A For something like a hundred. How much of it are you actually running?

Speaker D Not that much.

Speaker B Not 100.

Speaker D I paced him for the last 35 miles and we probably ran about like two of them.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Okay.

Speaker A And this is a organized race, I'm assuming.

Speaker B Yeah, it was outside of ZION, so. Zion 100. I did it in 2019, the spring, and it was great. I don't know. I started as running was kind of like my thing before I got into hiking, but I'd always like, wanted to like work up to 100 and like it did it. And QB and my parents came out and they each paced me for different sections. Like my parents, both runners. And it was. Yeah, it Was really cool. So. And then QB did like the last like 35 miles with me.

Speaker A That's quite the chunk to pay someone.

Speaker B Through the night on like no sleep.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A How is his demeanor for something like that compared to like the average day on trail?

Speaker D You know, it's pretty good. Better than you'd expect.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D The only thing is he was like, he was like, I'm not hungry, I'm not gonna eat anything. I'm like, you can't not eat something. 30, 30 more miles.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A Your nursing instinct kicks in.

Speaker D Yeah. Yeah. I just gotta take care.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A And you did, you did a 50?

Speaker D We've done, we've done a couple, both have done a couple of 50, 50 mile races. Yeah.

Speaker A And which were those?

Speaker D There's one right near us called Stone Cat which is like a local race which we run pretty often. That's really fun. Um, and then we ran the Dick Collins 50 in California. That's in Oakland. And you've done a few others.

Speaker B A few others. I did one in Colorado called the North Fork 50 that was. It's actually like on the Colorado Trail I did this, this was first 50 miler ever done and it's really cool.

Speaker A It's like which section of the Colorado.

Speaker B Trail it's out of Bailey. So the very beginnings.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Buffalo Creek fire where the, where the.

Speaker D Fire station is Anybody who's hiked the Colorado Trail.

Speaker B Yeah, yeah. But actually the race is the proceeds like benefit the local fire department. The wildfires.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Do you. Is there any non obvious advice for somebody who has done a lot of backpacking that wants to, wants to transition into longer distance running like you've guys done or is it just like just run non obvious.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Like does your stretching routine change or like maybe like your fluent technique?

Speaker B No, we don't stretch. I mean I think that people, I think that people sell themselves short like in general it's like, it's like you can do it.

Speaker D You're capable of a lot more than you think. But I think it's a really common thing though that there's like that through hiker to ultra running pipeline end up on the, on the trails after a race. I think it's actually a really good way to transition back into regular life.

Speaker B Sure.

Speaker D Post trail start, like make sure you stay active. Run.

Speaker D If you can.

Speaker B If you coming back from a trail and I've always done this is like coming back from like a long trail. Like the best thing you can do is have like a race that you're going to do in a couple Months. And then you got to get back to where because you can just, you know, you have a peacetime mission. If you just come back and you're running all the time, it's great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B You know, and then you have something that you're working towards.

Speaker A That's great advice. Not only, obviously, because it keeps you outside and, like, physically fit, but, like, I feel like for a lot of people, so much of what is attractive about through hiking is having, like, that goal to aspire to. And, like, when you come back and you don't have that, like, you can have, like, the loose idea of just, like, staying fit and staying outside. But I think having, like, a specific race to train for is a really good idea.

Speaker B I tell people that you should try to do that.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And like. And so we just met, like, a bunch of hikers on the Colorado Trail, and like, oh, yeah, you guys should all sign up for this race we're doing. It's like, hope they do it. But yeah, people are like, I don't know if I can. Like, I don't know if I can. It's like you've been doing, like, you've been basically doing like a marathon a day out here.

Speaker A Right.

Speaker B If you, like, put in a little bit of effort, you can guarantee you can run. If you want to do a 50k, that's 31 miles.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Or you're not. Like, it's so much different than you running, like a road marathon, because everybody knows about road marathon. You're like, oh, yeah, what's your time? Or whatever. But if you're running, like, trail ultras and it's. It's a lot more relaxed.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And if you come from a through hiking background, it's like, for. It transitions so well to be able to go and.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I ran quite a bit after the pct and like, for me, once you get past, like, the initial shift of just like, it's slightly different muscle usage running from backpacking. Like, your cardio endurance is so good. Like, once you get past that initial hump, like, running is actually pretty easy. At least that's the easiest it's going to get without, like, months of dedicated training.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B True.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Do you have any races upcoming?

Speaker B Yeah, we're doing the dead horse 50 miler in Moab in November, which is cool because we get a bunch of friends that are, like, all signed up for it. And, you know, you don't stretch at all. That's crazy. I stretch like, oh, yeah, I better do, like, I don't know, because I started like after I got my knee surgery, I stopped like really like trying to stretch like my quads and stuff, you know. But I probably should.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B For a while I was doing yoga when I was younger, but no, I don't stretch that much. Yeah, I guess stretch.

Speaker D We should stretch more.

Speaker A Yeah, I mean I, I feel like probably most backpackers are like, not as I do. Do you stretch on trail, like while backpacking?

Speaker B Occasionally.

Speaker A A lot of it's not something I.

Speaker D Do a lot of like rolling up my legs. Like I use my trekking poles to roll, like to roll my legs.

Speaker D My calves.

Speaker B Yeah, yeah. My calves get pretty worked. So I'll like try to massage my calves pretty good and.

Speaker D Yeah, that's about the limit.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Fair Wonderland Trail. We've talked a lot about that in the podcast Three Sisters Loop South Sister.

Speaker D That's not that too exciting.

Speaker B I mean, I mean if you've done it the pct, you've done half of the Three Sisters Loop. And then that's like the Three Sister. The South Sister is cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A What about backpacking in the Wallowas?

Speaker B Oh, the Wallowas are beautiful.

Speaker A Where's that?

Speaker B That's northeastern Oregon.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker B So we actually were driving like, I.

Speaker D Don'T know, towards, towards Olympic national park from the Sawtooths and we were like, oh man, what mountains are those over there?

Speaker B Yeah, we just saw these like beautiful peaks and we're like. So then we looked it up and then we're like, I'll get back over there.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So then we ended up over there and similar deal. Like QB made like a 5 day route and really, really beautiful area and it's under like I would say probably underused. There wasn't many people out there.

Speaker A So. Qb, am I discerning correctly? You're the schemer for the adventures. Like you're the one deciding the routes.

Speaker D I mean I'm the one that can read a map.

Speaker B So she's got a lot more useful skills when it like she can cook dinner in the backcountry. She can set up a tent. Now we got specific roles.

Speaker D Yeah, he blows up my sleeping pad. So that's, that's really helpful.

Speaker A This is the relationship advice that I'm looking for. Like how do you guys divvy tasks? What about splitting gear?

Speaker D We don't share a ton of gear. I mean we, we split our tent obviously and we, we have one pot that we, that we used to cook out of.

Speaker B Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker D But we don't have a ton of like mutual gear I guess other than those Two things.

Speaker B Yeah, somebody asked me that recently. It's like, do you guys like, share stuff? It's like toothbrush, double sided toothbrush. Yeah, we did like one big cat hole and like, that's not true.

Speaker D Very efficient.

Speaker B Yeah, no, but actually at first when we hiked the cdt, we both carried a tent the whole time.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B Just in case you had a good exit strategy.

Speaker A How do you decide who's carrying the tent?

Speaker B Oh, oh, we split it up.

Speaker D We have, we do like a freestanding tent, so it's got like fly body poles and we just split it up pretty evenly by weight.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Are you guys hiking together throughout the entire day? Do you split up and have rendezvous points?

Speaker D We pretty much hike together. I mean, we. We hike within like a shouting distance probably of each other pretty much the whole day.

Speaker B Oh, we have like call signs. Like, we have like a certain. Like, we have a whistle that we do. So not shouting. But yeah, but yeah, I would say that we started hiking like really close together when we first threw hike to cdt and that was just for like safety reasons for going through grizzly country. And we honestly, we walk like a remarkably similar pace. Like.

Speaker D Yeah, but we're not like, like always like right up each other's spots. We're just like. Like sometimes we'll be like walking like, you know, close to each other. But we're both listening to podcasts or whatever. Yeah. I mean, but we would if we are planning. If we're not hiking right together, which does happen sometimes, we always have like a specific spot that we're gonna stop at. Like, all right, I'm meet you here. And if I'm not there, it means that somehow you got in front of me or I got behind you or. Because that's happened before where it's like, you know, you have a rendezvous spot with someone, you don't realize that they past you while you were digging cat hole or whatever or something like that. And then you're just confused the rest of the day. Like, where's. Where is this person?

Speaker B You think you're chasing them and they're behind you and it's like that's. I mean, that happens to lots of like hiking partners or couples or whatever. It's like it's happened to me before and it's like, it's scary. It's like, where is this person?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Or like, have you guys seen the. There's like the backcountry walkie talkie thing where if like you're within a one. I don't know the exact distance, but a certain distance, like, you can communicate with each other. Have you guys thought about testing one.

Speaker B Of those out A walkie talkie?

Speaker A I mean, I guess a walkie talkie is that there's, like, a specific, like, for the backcountry.

Speaker D I used walkie talkies once with a partner. It was awesome. It was really fun. But I don't think we do that now. No.

Speaker B We use them on rafting trips, and they're great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Between the boats. Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. Unless somebody drops it in the water.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Ruby Crestron.

Speaker B Oh, that's cool.

Speaker D It's just, like, a lot of. We've done a lot of just really short hikes that are. Yeah, that's in Nevada. That's like. That's, like a pretty short hike. We did that as a. Like an out and back just to get back to our car.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D And that's beautiful also. It's like very. Like a little mini Sierra back there.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I feel like you can tell how deep someone is down the backpacking rabbit hole once they start backpacking in Nevada, because, like, it's come up a handful of times now where, like, really accomplished backpackers feel like Nevada is kind of like an uncovered gem in the world of backpacking.

Speaker B I want to see more of it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Like, we have some friends that just did the Hot Springs trail, and they said they're like, you guys should go to Nevada.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I don't know. It looks. I mean, from what I've seen, it's great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B We've only, like, driven across it a couple times, and we've done the Ruby Crest, and I don't know, maybe some other smaller things.

Speaker A By some metric, it is the most mountainous state in the lower 48. I forget what the definition of that.

Speaker B They got lots of hot springs.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Like, right after the Ruby Crest is, like, a hot spring right there.

Speaker A And it was cool then. Next I've got on the chronology here is actually with me. This is where I first met you guys is. I don't even remember how long this was. I want to say it was like 60 miles.

Speaker D Probably like 70 miles or so.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Achonka, the Collegiate west, which was your then third time in that section.

Speaker B Yeah, that was our third time, and then we just were there, so that would have been our fourth time.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. That was cool. Yeah, it was the three of us and Jabba and our friend Pear. We actually were just up at our friend pair's house up in Fort Collins.

Speaker E Pear.

Speaker A That's right.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I can remember the face. I would have had trouble with the trail name, so. Thanks for the memory. I know it was in September. Was. Was it like mid month because we got blasted or the mountains got blasted with snow like the day before, right before we started.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Really pretty because we went right after. So the two of us and pair went and hiked Huron afterwards and it was like covered in snow.

Speaker D Yeah, it was like mid September.

Speaker A Early even by Colorado standards. That was like an early snowstorm. I remember we got to Leadville like once you first started getting a peek of what the mountains were going to look like, I'm like, oh, what. What is the trail going to look like once we're out there? It was actually beautiful. It was perfect.

Speaker D Yeah, it wasn't bad.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. That was a funny. That's a funny story about Java on that trip. Remember you were like. He was like, oh, my feet hurt so bad. Like I need different shoes. Remember that? Do you remember he was like going to get off the trail at Cottonwood Pass.

Speaker B Oh, yeah. He was probably just looking for an out. Like, I want to get out of here. And then I was like, you had.

Speaker A An extra pair of shoes or something?

Speaker B No, I was like, oh, he was wearing like the ultra Lone Peak high tops. Right.

Speaker D I don't remember what it was.

Speaker B And I wear the reg. I had the same size shoe. And you guys. We swap shoes.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B It's gross for both of us, but. And then he's like, all right, these are better.

Speaker D Solve the problem.

Speaker A Yeah, that's funny. And then I guess after that hike, you guys got into some canoeing.

Speaker B Yeah, we did. That was after we went up to the Boundary Waters. So we were driving home basically. But we went up to the Boundary Waters in Minnesota and Ontario and we had a couple friends were doing like a similar road trip. They were coming from New Hampshire and then driving out west and we met up with them. We did like a 10 day trip in the Boundary Waters. And Boundary Waters is beautiful.

Speaker A I would imagine being that far north and we're probably pushing. October was that cold.

Speaker B October.

Speaker D It was cold. Yeah, it was. I mean if when it was raining it was cold.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D But it was so beautiful. Like the leaves were like peak foliage. There's really not that many people out there at that time of year. There's no bugs. That's a big thing.

Speaker B Yeah, because people complain. Yeah.

Speaker D And we did like 10 days. Yeah, it was.

Speaker B My father did a trip there like I don't know, 30 years ago when I was a kid and he has not stopped talking about it. And I was like, I gotta get to this place. Check it out.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And I ended up going and like, oh, yeah, Boundary waters. It lived up to the height. The place is beautiful.

Speaker A And then you guys decided to do the PCT again. What was the motivation there?

Speaker D Well, we didn't do it together the first time. We're like, oh, it'd be nice to do it together.

Speaker B Yeah, that was basically it.

Speaker D And we just love. I mean, we love it so much. It's such a great trail. I mean, you know how beautiful it is.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D And yeah. I mean, you can't recreate the magic of a first through hike off any trail. But it's so different the second time around. Like, it was.

Speaker B It was great. Yeah, we. I don't know. We.

Speaker A You guys are both in very good shape. How long does that hike take for you?

Speaker D That took 105 days for us. Yeah.

Speaker A Job and I were killing ourselves to do it in 100. Like, you guys just casually do it in 105.

Speaker B I think we were putting in some effort.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B Okay.

Speaker A That makes me feel a little bit better.

Speaker D Yeah. I think those five days really make a big difference.

Speaker A Yeah, sure. That's where they got easy.

Speaker B But that was great. And a lot of people are like. Not a lot of people, but like, some people are like, why are you doing this again? And I was like, if you have to ask, like, you don't get it. It's like, like, this the best.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B PCT is the best. Come on.

Speaker A If I were gonna redo a very long trail, it would 100% be the PCT.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I'm always more of a head scratcher about the people that repeat the at. I mean, this is just for me. Like, I understand anyone who wants to repeat anything, but, like the redoing the PCT over and over makes a lot of sense today. Like, that's just such a magical trail. Grand Canyon. Is that a hike, A rafting trip?

Speaker D Oh, we did. We did. We did a rafting trip in the Grand Canyon. So after we did the PCT that winter, we.

Speaker A Was that with Mac again.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A How'd you guys meet Mac?

Speaker D We met him on the cdt. Yeah.

Speaker B Right away. Like, he was. He started maybe the day before us. So we hike. We'd met him and his crew, Mack, Moist and Appa. We met them like right at the beginning. And then we didn't see them again until like Wyoming. And then we hiked with them for a fair amount, like through Montana and stuff. And then.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Done a bunch of adventures with Them?

Speaker E Yeah, but yeah, the.

Speaker D He just put in for a permit, like, for the river. So you need a permit. They're really hard to get. It's like a lottery. You as you put in for them, you get a higher chance every year. And he just happened to get one right away the first year. So he was like, I'll just start. I'll just start putting in for them. Like, I'll learn how to wrap and then by the time I get. Finally do get one, I'll have some experience. And it was like, no. Right away he got the permit, which is like, it's a pretty. I feel like a typical thing, like, for him is like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna find, like the biggest thing that I can do with this activity. Like, not just gonna start with hiking. I'm gonna through hike. If I'm not gonna just raft a river, I'm gonna raft the. A month in the Grand Canyon.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Like the ultimate trip.

Speaker A And I've heard that that one is like very off the map. Like you're off the grid for, what is it, three weeks, 30 days. 30 days, damn.

Speaker D Yeah. In the winter, you can do 30 days up to 30 days.

Speaker A And like, obviously no cell service the entire time.

Speaker D No self service.

Speaker A Does it feel like you're going to the moon at any certain point?

Speaker D Like, it does kind of feel like you go through like a portal into a different.

Speaker A Would you recommend it to someone that's in the through hiking culture to.

Speaker D Oh, absolutely.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D And then get a permit. Invite us.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Actually, if you should stop running for permits. Well, we've done another round.

Speaker A Oh, you have?

Speaker B Yeah, no, it's. And I would do another round. Like. Yeah, it's. The Grand Canyon rafting trip was like. I would say when the first time we did that, that was like the closest that I. The closest that I ever felt to like doing my first through hike. It's like, this is amazing, like how like, I want to do this every year.

Speaker D And that whole group, for the most part, was. We had like a couple of people who knew how to raft. And then the rest of the group was pretty much like through hikers and hikers. So.

Speaker A Yeah.

Speaker B So for. We had very. We had limited rafting experience as a group compared to other groups on the river, which is usually. It's like a bunch of guides and stuff. But this trip was like, people with lots of outdoor experience but limited rafting. So we had like five people that could row the boat. So these are like big or rafts with one person in the middle. Right. It's not like when people think of whitewater rafting, some people think of like, oh, there's like six people on the side, you know, with paddles. So this is like one person being in the middle. So we have five people that knew what they were doing. Enough to get us down the river.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And then how many boats? Five boats. Okay. So they each were captain of a boat.

Speaker D Very little room for error there.

Speaker B So then we had 16 people total and that's like the max on the trip. And it was great. And then so QB and I didn't really know anything about rafting at the time. Like we had like. You had to like hitch on rafts in the heyduke. So we had been on a couple.

Speaker D Of sections of the river. We had been just on rafts for like a. Like a little bit.

Speaker B Like just whatever. But we had been like a part of the Colorado river briefly beforehand, but then this. It was awesome. So we didn't know what we were doing. And then, you know, by the end of it we felt like pretty good on the oars. And then since then we've done a handful of smaller trips where we got better on the oars. And then we had a chance to do the river again. Matt got the permit again in this past winter and we, we each captained a boat and went pretty well. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker A You went from novice to captain in like two year span. That's pretty cool.

Speaker B Basically.

Speaker A How intense did the rapids get down there?

Speaker D They. I mean, some of the rapids, they're definitely more intense than others, but it's a, it's a good people. Some people say it's a good learning river because it's like a. It's a pool drop, so it'll be a rapid and then like a flat pool where the water is calm for a long stretch and then another rapid and then flat pool. So even if something does go wrong necessarily that you have a chance to like get everybody back in the boat and, and flip it back over and. And don't have to worry about like some rivers where it's just like rapid after rapid after rapid. Yeah. I don't know. It's.

Speaker A How much, like what's the weight of supplies per boat for a 30 day trip?

Speaker B Pretty heavy.

Speaker D His boat started off the lightest and ended up the heaviest. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B I carried the poop boat. Carried. I rode the poop boat.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Does that give off an odor?

Speaker B No, not in the winter.

Speaker D I mean, not like even the Summer, I don't think it's that. Yeah, too bad.

Speaker B Actually, we don't know that.

Speaker D Yeah, we don't know, but. But it's like you start up with a bunch of empty ammo cans, and that's what you use as your. Your toilets. The Groovers, they call them.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D And you had just a whole boat full of empty ammo cans at the beginning and then pull them up.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B It's also in charge of snacks, which doesn't really gel with the poop boat or whatever.

Speaker A Yeah, I want to keep those in the opposite end of the boat line. Is the food like, just what you'd eat typically on a backpacking trip? Or like, are people bring.

Speaker D No, no, it's way better. Like, we went through a company and they did all the food, which is like, kind of typical. Especially, like, trying to organize food for 16 people for 30 days would be pretty impossible. So. But they, you know, they give you, like a full menu and eat way better. Way better.

Speaker A And is this like you're cooking over a fire? These are dehydrated meals or what?

Speaker D We have like a kitchen. So you have a full kitchen set up, like pots and pans and like a six burner stove top or eight burners. I don't know. Big, big stove. So you cook all kinds of stuff. Like in the beginning, it's kind of. It's more fresh food. So you have like, salmon some nights, steak. And then like, as you go, it starts to be more like chili and like, things out of can.

Speaker A A lot of beans.

Speaker D Yeah, a lot of beans.

Speaker B Towards, like, towards the end.

Speaker D A bean heavy trip?

Speaker B No, but it's great. And then, so what you do is you split into like. Well, this is how we did it, you know, I don't know how other rafting groups do it, but we split into like four teams before. And then, you know, you have certain chores. Like you're on cook duty that night, the next morning, and then maybe the next day you're in charge of breaking down the Groover or whatever. And then you have a couple days off. So you're with your. Basically your chore team for the whole trip.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Which is great.

Speaker A Breaking down the Groover, what does that entail?

Speaker B That it's actually pretty simple. Like, the Groover is so the ammo can, and then there's this like a toilet seat that you slide onto it. And then if you're on the Groover team, you have to, like. It's important to find, like a good spot. It's usually like every campsite along the river has like. All right, this is the groover spot. We just have to find it, you know?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And then it's kind of.

Speaker D There's like. It's kind of like a dozen of spots. You want it to be scenic, you know?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Okay. Get an epic dump. I get that.

Speaker B Yeah, exactly.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B You want to be able to. You want to be visible to other rafters that are coming by, but not to your crew if they're eating dinner. You know what I mean?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B But, yeah, river trips are fun.

Speaker D Yeah. Breaking down the groover, it's like you, you know, you want to give it a good shake, Settle everything to the bottom, Put a little bleach powder on there, Close it up, lock it down. Yeah.

Speaker A Bleach powder. Okay.

Speaker B Close it correctly.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I don't know.

Speaker D Give it to. Give it to. Endless.

Speaker A How heavy does that get? By the end of the trip?

Speaker D We have like something like 15 of them. So they don't get too. They get it. Yeah.

Speaker B Manageable.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B £30, maybe 40. I. You know, I don't.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A How long are the days? Like, is it sunrise to sunset in terms of how long you're on the water or.

Speaker D Well, I think because in the winter you have 30 days, so you have so much more time. You're not on the river for as long. Usually it's like a. Like maybe like five hours of being on the river. In the summer, you have 16 days to do the same amount of miles, so that's going to be much. You're going to be on the water a lot longer. And the days are shorter in the winter, so you need to keep that in mind too. So you don't want to be.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Plus you're in the canyon, so it's like the days are even shorter if you don't have, like the sun behind the canyon wall or something.

Speaker A And it must get cold as hell.

Speaker B The first trip we did in 21 was cold, and then we did one.

Speaker D This past winter in 2020, same timeframe, but it was just so much warmer. Like way more manageable.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A How cold does it get in 21?

Speaker D At night, I mean, we'd wake up with everything, like, frozen. Like the, like the. The buckets of water and stuff would be frozen, but during the day it would be pretty. Pretty good. 50, 60 degrees during the day maybe.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker D But cold at night.

Speaker B And you're also. You're allowed. In the winter, you're allowed to collect driftwood. So we carried like a wood burning stove and then we had fires every night. Which was really great.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And then other than that, I don't know if people take stoves down or. You can only like bring so much wood. From the beginning it's like you gotta.

Speaker D I mean, in the summer it's like 110 degrees, so you really don't want to have a fire.

Speaker A Tell me about the Alpamayo set. A cruise track. Oh, that was.

Speaker B What is that, 22? Yeah, that was where I hurt my knee. That was after the Y Wash. We went and we did this. This is like an invention of cubies to go do this thing. And that's where it hurt my knee. Got it. And then we had to bail from that, but.

Speaker A And this was in Peru.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Okay, so before that was the Y Wash, where you had run into Twinkle and Grace. Yeah, I guess Give us the run through of the White Wash.

Speaker D The White Wash is, is so beautiful. It's like one of the guides said to us, like, oh, there's only one Andes. And it's really true. It's so beautiful. You start with like a 10 hour drive from Lima to Juarez, which is like kind of the base camp for the Cordier Blanca, the Yhwash. And then you take another bus or a hire, like a private car to bring you way out there to the Waiwash. It's really high up. You start right away at like 10 or 11,000ft and you're camping up at like 12, probably every. Every night. So you want to out like get some acclimation done beforehand. So we went like a week earlier or at least like five days early and just to acclimate. Um, and it's an interesting area because there are a lot of guided trips out there. So I think most people that do that trip trek do it with guides, which means you're gonna have donkeys and like big dome tents that like your guides cook you dinner and stuff. But we did it without guides, which, I mean, I would definitely recommend because it gives you a lot more flexibility and it's cheaper. It's cheaper and it's totally doable. Like, you definitely don't need to have guides to go through those areas.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Are there designated campgrounds or.

Speaker B Yeah, that's like one that was one of the drawbacks for me is like, you have to camp in kind of specific spots, right?

Speaker D Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where I think if you get out there into certain places, you. I think the most important part is when you go through each area, you have to pay like a fee for the area to Use the areas. So they want you to camp there and pay the fees. But no matter where you camp, you're going to end up paying the fees either way. So I don't think I know other people who do it will camp in other areas. But we mostly tried to stay in the. The designated campsites. But I think you can do it either way. Just pay the fees.

Speaker B Yeah, it's incredible. It's like, I mean once you're up there, the whole thing, it's not like there's not connector trail. There's not like boring stuff. So you're doing this big loop and it's like epic mountains everywhere and you're high up. It's really pretty glaciers.

Speaker D You're seeing like the glaciers like breaking off and falling into lakes.

Speaker A Wow.

Speaker B Bright blue lakes everywhere.

Speaker B Place is cool.

Speaker A Yeah, that sounds awesome.

Speaker D Highly recommend.

Speaker A So you did the Oregon Desert Trail or a portion of it?

Speaker B Yeah, we did half of it. We did. Or the. We did the western half of it and we went out and attempted to do the whole thing. That was our plan. And it was tough. I would say that it was kind.

Speaker D Of a tough run for us. Like we had like, we had the.

Speaker B Knee injury the year before in Peru and then on the odt, which is cool. There's lots of like really interesting places, really beautiful places. And I. We got to like French Glen. And then the second half of it I think has more highlights or like the eastern half, but we didn't necessarily get to them. We got to just shy of Steens Mountain and I don't think either one of us was feeling great. And they got a lot of snow on, on the Steens so it was gonna be like really tricky to get through that. And we ended up just calling it. But there's some great spots. There was like, we got to this hot spring that usually.

Speaker D It was early in the season so the road was closed to go out to it and we were like, it's a big campground, huge campground, super popular. But we got there and it wasn't open yet. So we were able to camp there and like have the hot springs all to our ourselves and.

Speaker B Yeah, and we walked like all day that day and it was like raining. We're walking through like knee deep puddles.

Speaker D Constantly finding like arrowheads and stuff. It was a really cool area. So there's good, there's definitely some highlights on that trail. Yeah, we have friends that are going back to hike. They actually did the same thing where they stopped in French Glen another year but they just started the second half now?

Speaker B Yeah, they're actually there right now. Yeah.

Speaker A And that's mostly route, right?

Speaker D No, it's actually a lot of. A lot of, like, forest roads, like old roads. And. And there's a good amount of trail. There's some. There's definitely some mountain finding on there, too, though.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker B And then there's a lot of stuff that we didn't get to. Does sound really cool. It's like, the Steens look awesome. The Pueblo Mountains, I guess, are a highlight that we didn't get to. And then there's like, the Oahe Canyon, which is like the eastern terminus and stuff. It's supposed to be beautiful.

Speaker A Any plans to clean up those miles?

Speaker B I mean, got to do it. All right. Eventually.

Speaker A Eventually. Tell me about the Magna Via.

Speaker D Oh, we're getting to this year now.

Speaker B Oh, yeah, that was this year.

Speaker A And say that last word. France.

Speaker B French Eugenia.

Speaker D Yeah, French Agencia. Yeah, I think maybe.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Where is this?

Speaker D That's in Sicily. So we were in Europe this past year. We did, like, two months in Europe, so we went to Sicily. We did, like, a pilgrimage walk through Sicily. That was really fun. It's not like a super popular pilgrimage, so it was cool to go through these sort of areas that don't get a ton of tourism in Sicily. These, like, small towns up in the. In the mountains, not, like on the coast.

Speaker A So how did you pick this as a hike? There's so many, like, popular European hikes.

Speaker B I think it was timing. We were looking for something to do, and that was like, all right, because this was in May. We're looking for something to do that wasn't going to get, like.

Speaker D Well, we were planning on doing the GR20 right after, and we wanted to wait a little bit longer to do it into the season so some of the snow would melt a little bit more. So we were like. I would do a track and like, oh, maybe we'll go to Sicily. And then we just, like, we're like, you know, googling.

Speaker A Yeah, what can I walk out here?

Speaker B We like delicious pasta for, like, five bucks a plate, like, consistently.

Speaker A And like, yeah, my curiosity's piece.

Speaker B It was, you know, the best pasta I've had in my life, like, every day. So it was. It was cool. Yeah, it was cool. I would.

Speaker A Is this trail road combination, what are.

Speaker D We looking at mostly?

Speaker B Road?

Speaker D Yeah, it's like a pilgrimage style. So, like, more there would be, like, trail, and then there would be, like, super, super overgrown terrazza. Like, old, old road. Like, the. The idea is that, like, these old Roads that the Franchisenian knights would go down. Right. So. But the old road was always really, really overgrown.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A But yeah, camping or like when I think pilgrimage, I'm thinking like hostel stays and that's.

Speaker D Yeah. For the most part it's like hostels and hotels each night.

Speaker B Yeah, yeah, hotels. Like a room in somebody's house.

Speaker B But it was cool and we went to. We went through some like really cool towns. I went to Corleone, which is like from the Godfather. Yeah, like it's cool. Yeah.

Speaker A Did you guys watch season two of White Lotus?

Speaker B Yes, but it. Right. Don't get the wrong idea. It's not much different from the.

Speaker E Yeah, okay.

Speaker B Mvf.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B But yeah, we did. That's a great show.

Speaker A How long was this one?

Speaker D We did it in five days. I would not recommend doing it in five days.

Speaker B Yeah, that's maybe. What is that? I don't know, 130 miles, maybe 164 kilometers.

Speaker D Yeah. So like 120. I think it ended up being like 130 miles.

Speaker B Yeah. Most of that time we just spent like converting kilometers to miles.

Speaker E Yeah, sure.

Speaker B Meters to feet.

Speaker A And then you'd mentioned the GR20 and Corsica. I've heard that that is a bonafide ass kicker.

Speaker D Yeah. And we did, we did a sort of a similar thing where we were like, oh, it's okay. Like we can do two stages a day. Right. Because it's in stages, 16 stages. So usually people do it over the course of 14 to 16 days. Eight days is fine. We can do that. No problem.

Speaker B Yeah. Because if you look at the mileage, it's like I'm not like I'm not gonna do an eight mile day or whatever. Sure.

Speaker D But like maybe some days you should do an eight mile day.

Speaker A Yeah, that's ain't for somebody that hiked the at 80 days.

Speaker D Right. It was a tough, it was a tough hike and it's, it's, it's. Yeah. Maybe an ass kicker.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And it's really cool. GR20. Like it's really cool.

Speaker D Yeah, it's cool. We did it the opposite direction. People usually do it, which was, which was good. It worked out good because we did it early in the season and most of the snow is in the north section. So we were like, oh, we'll start in the south, give it another week or so to melt. And that worked really well.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D Because the whole time people were like, oh, just wait till you get to the north. The snow is going to be horrible. It's going to be so sketchy. And then we got there and we were like, there's no snow here at all.

Speaker B Right. The north is, like, notoriously, like, much harder than the south. Salt is still pretty difficult, right? Yeah. I don't know. So then when we got there, it was like, we tiptoed through, like, a little bit of snow, but it was almost all gone. I was like, these. So qb, it was. Her plan was like, all right, we'll start here. And then by the time we get here, it's going to be like another week and it's going to all melt out. And it exactly went out.

Speaker A Oh, perfect.

Speaker B That was great. Yeah. And then. I don't know. It's tough. Like, the. I thought the language barrier was a little tough. Like, everybody speak French. We don't speak any French.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Which is fair because it's in France, so.

Speaker B Yeah. Right.

Speaker D I mean, we won't hold it again.

Speaker B I don't expect people to speak English better. So we did our best. It was a little tricky, but was.

Speaker A There anything that required you to hike it that quickly? Like, are you trying to catch a flight on the other end or like, you just wanted to challenge yourself? Like, could you have slowed your tempo down if you wanted to?

Speaker B Yeah. I mean, no.

Speaker D We booked a.

Speaker B We had a flight book.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. I had decided predetermined that we could do it in eight days. So we had the flight book.

Speaker B And so what you got to do is, like, if you have reservations, so you have to camp in the same spot every night. There's a very, like, particular spot. You can either stay inside of a thing. Hostel or whatever it was profusio. Or you can camp. So we camped every night, and it's.

Speaker D Cheaper if you book it in advanced.

Speaker B So we had all our stuff booked out ahead of time. Just, you know.

Speaker A So you were locked into those.

Speaker B Ambitious.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Is that type 2 fun? Like, was that fun at the time or did you need a little bit of space to appreciate it?

Speaker D I think it was mostly type one, but, like, definitely some type two in there.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I was pretty stoked when we were done. I was like. I was awesome. But it was like. It was eight tough days.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B It was pretty grueling.

Speaker A I thought, coming from you guys. I'm sure that would have probably killed me. Describe to me why it's so difficult. Is it just a lot of elevation change? Is it technical combination?

Speaker D It's a lot of elevation gain, and then there is a good amount of, like, scrambling ladders and chains and. And. And that. Yeah.

Speaker B But just steep Yeah, I mean, it's doable. It's just like some people do it. A lot of people do it in five days because they go. And a lot of guys run it.

Speaker D Like, they'll run like, with nothing, you know, with like just a running vest.

Speaker B And then every.

Speaker D Much faster.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Every stop you get to. You can get everything you want. You just bring your wallet and like.

Speaker A I mean, I just did TMB in eight days. I thought that was like an approachable duration, but people do it in 19 hours.

Speaker B Oh. Oh. Somebody said that whatever the FKT was for the.

Speaker D It was like 31 hours. Yeah.

Speaker B 20 hours. Like, gotta be kidding me.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Like, really impressive.

Speaker B People are wild.

Speaker A Would you do that one again?

Speaker D I would do it again.

Speaker A I got two different answers there.

Speaker B I'm glad I did it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B I don't know if I would do it again. It was. Yeah, I'd probably do it again if.

Speaker A If you had to do it again, how many days would you do it?

Speaker B 8, 12, 10?

Speaker D Yeah, some. Some of the sections are more conducive to doing two in one day. I would say. There's some. Definitely some flatter sections and then there's.

Speaker B Like, harder ones or at least do two a day. And what we did is like, our first day we did like, what. We did one, we did like, not even one. And then the second day we did like three plus. And we were like.

Speaker D That kind of set us up for like just being like, Beat the rest of the trial. Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A And then I saw that you guys had more time in Europe. Any trails of note there?

Speaker D We did some hiking up in Norway that was pretty cool. They have like, some. There's so much hiking up there and the trails systems are so immense, but they have a couple of like, like highlight trails that they have marked out is called the Saga Route that we did. And that was pretty cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. We were. We were in Croatia. We were hitchhiking in Croatia and it was so hot. Like, we were in a heat wave. And we're like, you know, where can we go? That's going to be cooler.

Speaker B Yeah, let's go to Norway.

Speaker A What's it like hitchhiking in an international country? Like, is it more intimidating because you don't speak the language? Does everyone there speak English?

Speaker D No. I mean, it can be tough with communicating, but I feel like we would usually get picked up by other tourists. Germans are very good at picking up people.

Speaker B Yeah, we did a bunch of hitchhike in Europe, actually, and then Croatia was cool. We actually waited for a while at One spot which is uncommon. I don't know. I think we have a pretty good luck hitchhiking, but we end up getting a ride from these guys. And they were Ukrainian and they're great. And they drove us. Like we ended up. They spoke Russian and we spoke English, so we didn't have a common language. But we went out to lunch with them. They invited us to go back to wherever they were staying. They drove us for a couple hours.

Speaker A That's cool.

Speaker B It was great.

Speaker D Yeah. And we're just doing this all through Google.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A That's fun. I'm seeing that the Saga route is not an insignificant trail. It's almost 140 miles.

Speaker B Sounds about right.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Are you cruising on this or walk me through, like, what the terrain is like.

Speaker D Yeah, it's a little. Definitely more cruiser than some of the trails that we did in. In like Switzerland and. And on the GR20.

Speaker A But it's.

Speaker D Yeah. I don't know.

Speaker B You know, what's cool about it is. And one of like the things that I wasn't crazy about in Europe is you can only camp at specific spots. Like we were in. We did like a week of hiking in Switzerland also. We did a few days in Slovenia. And great, beautiful places. Right. Amazing places. Corsica too. And it was like. But you could only camp it like you can only camp here and you got to pay money to camp here. And you get. You know what I mean? And we were like in the States, when we're out in like the western United States, you can just camp wherever you want, which we love. But going up to Norway, we have this. And I don't know the exact right to Rome.

Speaker D It's like in Scandinavian countries. I think Ireland also has it. You can camp pretty much not wherever, like within. There's certain rules for it. But you can camp in a lot of places, even on public land, as long as you're a certain amount away from private land. I'm sorry. Yeah, especially on public land. Of course. But on private land you can camp if you're a certain like 150 meters or something like that from. From buildings. So it's much more similar to like the style of hiking that we do here.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Which we liked.

Speaker A So are you guys dirt bagging the entire time you're in Europe? Are you doing any of like the traditional vacation style?

Speaker B Well, I'll tell you what we did do that was kind of. Well, we're in the court. On Corsica, everybody takes showers and does laundry every night. I'm like, we didn't do that, like, it's like we gotta put on these dirty clothes, like, right away and they're gonna get dirty again. So we're just. Whatever.

Speaker D But different style out there. For sure. But yeah, we. I think we were. I mean, such a big part of European hiking culture is staying in the huts and, like, can't. And. And buying food at the refugios and that just for us, it's like we're just not willing to spend that kind of money on that part of the traveling. So we're definitely dirt bagging a little bit. Buy all our food at the grocery store.

Speaker B It's a good way to do it a little cheaper.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker B Like walking out of town with a baguette and like ham and cheese sandwiches. But we also did some other stuff besides just hiking in Europe, if that's what you're getting at. Like.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Oh, yeah. We went to the Vatican. We went to Rome.

Speaker D We spent like a week in Portugal, which is really nice. Just like, kind of like the city stuff.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Oh, we went to the Azores right before Portugal. We went to Terceira Island. That was pretty sick. And that's like, from Boston. It was like a really reasonable flight.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B And then from the Azores to mainland Portugal. Like, the flights are wicked cheap. Right. And then we're in Europe, you know, I mean, you're in Europe when you're in the Azores, but. And then getting around Europe is pretty reasonable. But. Yeah. Went to Azores, Portugal.

Speaker A Did you consider the fisherman's trail at all? This one's been in Portugal.

Speaker D Yeah, we did look at it.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Why'd you decide against it? I'm curious.

Speaker D I just think it didn't fit in with the schedule at that point.

Speaker E Yeah. But.

Speaker B Yeah, I guess we could have done that instead of the.

Speaker D I think maybe. Yeah. Instead of the Magnavia Prince agenda.

Speaker B But next time.

Speaker D Yeah. You can't do everything. That's the thing, right?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Has this kind of tipped off now an international curiosity? Because it sounds like you've done a lot domestically. Like, let's say, I'm assuming you're probably already planning for 2026. Like, are you looking international?

Speaker C Not really.

Speaker B Mexico. We love Mexico, but not as like a hiking destination, but going down and spend like a couple weeks on the beach or something.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B But Central America and stuff.

Speaker D We're kind of in like a. I think right now we're thinking a lot about rafting. So we can do. For rafting next summer. Put in for a lot of permits and.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D See what we can do.

Speaker A Give me a top five bucket List can include rafting, hiking, general travel.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Really want to go to Japan. It's definitely. Yeah, that's one.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D New Zealand.

Speaker B Two. I would like to spend more time in Central America. I went to Guatemala a couple years ago to study Spanish and I loved it. And I just think it's a beautiful country and I want to go back there. So I would say Central America.

Speaker A Slash. What about something like the O circuit? Is that not off the beaten?

Speaker B Pat?

Speaker A What is it the O circuit in, like, Patagonia?

Speaker B Oh, I never really thought about it.

Speaker E Okay.

Speaker B Oh, for Patagonia. Oh, yeah. This would be number one for me. I want to ride a bike down there.

Speaker A But you guys do any of the long distance cycling?

Speaker B No, I wrote my bike from Boston to New York.

Speaker D He's more interested.

Speaker A Okay.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A You're not interested. I mean, you guys keep yourself busy on foot.

Speaker B That's not.

Speaker D There's so much to do. I will be very supportive of any bikepacking dreams that you have.

Speaker B Oh, yeah. So for a top five bucket list, man, I don't think we're on the same exact page because there's a couple things that I want to do that QB is not interested in and would say number one would be I want to ride a bike across the US Which I might do. And I want to paddle the Mississippi River. QB doesn't want to do that.

Speaker A We interviewed someone who had done it. I'll have to dig up what episode that is. But if. Yeah, if you're looking for additional intel.

Speaker B And get that, I think we know some people that have done it.

Speaker A It sounded dirtier than I was expecting.

Speaker D That sippy rubber.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Expecting it to be clean, I guess. I mean, I. I wasn't expecting it to be clean, but the extent to which it was not clean was beyond what I was expecting.

Speaker E Yeah, I was.

Speaker B I would say for paddling trip that I probably could get QB to do would be the Northern Forest Canoe Trail, which is like. If you've heard of that. Yeah. That's up in like starts in New York and it goes to New England states, maybe into Quebec and then it's in Maine. And we know some people have done that. Sounds pretty rad.

Speaker A Sweet.

Speaker B So I don't know.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B So I'm sorry, you guys disagreeing on.

Speaker A What the next trip is, is where you guys disagree.

Speaker E We don't know.

Speaker B It's a lot to do.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Has the question of kids come up.

Speaker B Bryce, this why they call you Badger?

Speaker A I mean, I'm sure you get enough from your folks. Maybe you don't I don't know, but we.

Speaker B We get a bunch of nieces and nephews, and they're great, and we have a lot of fun with them. Like, and we have, like, my.

Speaker D His brother lives right across the street from us, so we have nieces and nephews right across the street. So. So really great. Really fun.

Speaker B We have, like, access to hanging out with, like, our brother's kids.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Which is great. And then we do cool stuff with them. Like, we took them on a little canoe trip on the Ipswich river, which is in Massachusetts, and it was awesome. But then it's like, we can also go and do our own thing, too.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A You're certainly not gonna get a strong campaign for me to.

Speaker B I mean, I'm only. I'm only 43, so I don't know, like, what's the hierarchy?

Speaker A I think from your standpoint, there's really not, like, Clint Eastwood had a kid at, like, 80 something years old.

Speaker B Like, I know.

Speaker D Perfect.

Speaker A Yeah.

Speaker D That'd be a good age. Yeah.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A No, I don't follow you guys. You guys are keeping very busy, living the adventurous dream.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Whatever you decide is awesome.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A Sweet. I know. You guys just obviously wrapped Colorado Trail. Anything from that you want to touch on? That was the fourth time through.

Speaker D No. Oh, not. No.

Speaker A I guess Fourth time through the.

Speaker D For the Collegiate.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah. We were. We were thinking about doing the Collegiate east this time around. We were like, oh, we'll do it. We haven't done it before. We should do the Collegiate East.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D And then by the time we got.

Speaker A There, we're like, let's do the better option.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D So maybe next time.

Speaker B Yeah, we did. So we did the Colorado Trail, and it was great. It's. You know, if you're looking to do a trail that's like 500 miles and there's a lot of different things a month long.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah. It's, like, beautiful place to go hiking.

Speaker D Really. It doesn't get much better.

Speaker B Great towns. I don't know. Yeah, we did that.

Speaker D It does have really good towns. Like, all of the towns I feel like along the trail are really, really cool.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D And nice. Yeah.

Speaker A And hiker friendly, depending on the weather draw that you get. I feel like the Colorado Trail is kind of the perfect trail because.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A It's just the best of Colorado. The towns are spaced. Well, the towns are nice.

Speaker B Like.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A It really is a great trail.

Speaker B Best thing, I mean, the most difficult challenge, I think, is try not to get struck by lightning.

Speaker D And we did a really good job of that.

Speaker B Nice success.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Well done. Well, sweet guys. You guys are the through hiking power couple. Adventure power couple. We'll round up to that. We'll end with the Stace Alti question presented by element. Use our URL drink element.com trek what is your hottest take in the world of backpacking or just outdoors at large? An unpopular opinion maybe?

Speaker B Oh yeah, this is probably a pretty popular opinion. Okay. But I would say this public lands is something to give a about. And without getting too political, I think you should vote for the party that's going to protect the public lands and that's that.

Speaker E Yeah, good. But.

Speaker B I do have two other things that I do harp on. Tampons should be free, I don't think.

Speaker D Not necessarily a backpacking issue, but a great women's issue.

Speaker B No, it's also a backpacking issue. I started thinking about this like a month ago. It's like we had like a one day resupply and I was like, what did we spend this money on? I'm like, oh, anybody with a menstrual cycle should not have to be taxed, you know, because of that. So I think the tampon should be free from the government or whatever. And I think that trains should be free too, or at least subsidized. I mean, it'd just be like a much better way to get around. Yeah, but I know that's not like a. I, maybe I thought of that on like the. I don't know, I think if, if trains were like a dollar a ride, it'd be like way less people would be driving cars. It'd be way less traffic. Sure. Yeah. And I don't know.

Speaker A So endless. 20, 28, 32.

Speaker B Absolutely not. Like those are my hot takes.

Speaker E Yeah, good.

Speaker D I think he has enough hot takes for the both of us. But let's see my hot take. It's not really a through hiking hot take, is it? But Albuquerque is the real mile high city.

Speaker B Albuquerque.

Speaker A Sell me on Albuquerque. I've never been.

Speaker D All right, we were just there. So this is why, this is why it's on the mind. But Denver gets this big rap for like, oh, it's a big mountain city. I mean, it's in the plains. You gotta drive to the mountains.

Speaker A That's fair.

Speaker B That's true.

Speaker A That's fair.

Speaker B Yeah. We were down in Albuquerque. We're visiting some friends down there. And we were like from our friend's back door or front door, I guess. We ran into the Sandia mountains and like 6,000ft. Yeah, I think Albuquerque is higher than Denver.

Speaker A Yeah, but that's why I settled in Golden. It was Denver was too far from Melbourne.

Speaker E I get it. Yeah.

Speaker B Not trying to knock Denver, but maybe QB is.

Speaker A Yeah, yeah, that's fair. We're golden people here at backpacker.

Speaker D All right. Perfect. Yeah.

Speaker A And where should people go to keep up with you guys? Social media website.

Speaker B I write a blog, actually. I was a lot more consistent on it for a while, but I just started putting more stuff on there and it's endlesspeacesummer.com and Endless Peace Summer is also my Instagram.

Speaker D Sarah Hikes is my Instagram. I don't post on it, I don't go on it. But it doesn't. But it does exist.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker A Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing some tales, guys.

Speaker B Appreciate it.

Speaker A And good to see you again.

Speaker B Yeah, likewise. Thanks for having us to the Trek.

Speaker A Propaganda portion of today's show. You've probably heard this news story, but I'm gonna say it because it's important and the more people that hear it, the more likely we get. The outcome that we need is Someone vandalized the Katahdin sign. Rangers are asking asking for your help. Baxter State park law enforcement rangers are seeking the public's help to track down the person or persons who recently carved initials into the sign at the summit of Katahdin. The letters H M and J M were carved into the middle of the Baxter Peak Summit sign on Katahdin, reads a Baxter State park press release posted to social media Thursday evening. Based on recent photos posted online at the summit, vandalism appears to have taken place in last August or in late August. Just a very special you from us here at Backpack Radio.

Speaker C I literally cannot imagine a faster way to make thousands of people hate you.

Speaker A Yeah, I mean, it had to have been done on from ignorance. I mean, it was excused. Yeah, I don't know, but that's a really shitty thing. That's a very important sign for a lot of people. Not a difficult or not an easy mountain to climb. And to make it about you is just kind of the shittiest thing that you can do.

Speaker C Major L for HM and jm.

Speaker E Yep.

Speaker A Big time L. All right, kicking the truck Trek propaganda, over to you.

Speaker D Boom.

Speaker C All right, Trek propaganda, time for the bloggers Today. We are shouting out Jen Brown. Probably heard of her before, but she is a consistent blogger here on the track and this is her triple crown hike on the PCT this year. She's been posting pretty much every single day that she's been on trail. In her most recent blog, she is on day 67 of her SoBo hike. It's called Saved by a Cash. And you're just going to see her going about her zero day and then heading back out on trail and drinking from a lovely cache of water filled with cows. Shout out, Jen. Follow her.

Speaker A Yeah, Jen's powerhouse. She blogged every day of her AT hike last year and is currently keeping that up on the PCT. I should get you on the podcast, too.

Speaker C Yeah, 100%.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker C If you're looking to wake up every morning and have something to read, you want to follow Jen.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I'm not trying to think if I've even met Jen.

Speaker C You've definitely met Jen.

Speaker B Have I. I feel like you have.

Speaker C I met her at. At trail days.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A But, like, I was tied up.

Speaker C Oh, you were mia.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I might have.

Speaker B I'm.

Speaker A You know, my memory of this stuff is not very good, but.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Okay. Question of the day. This one's easy. Window or aisle? I've been flying a lot this year, so this was top of my.

Speaker C For me, a humble brag.

Speaker D Okay.

Speaker B Is it?

Speaker A I don't know.

Speaker D I. I'm a jet setter.

Speaker C What can I say?

Speaker A Yeah, maybe at one point in my life that would have felt like a cool thing to do. I kind of despise traveling. I'm. I think I'm at my road trip era.

Speaker B Oh, wow.

Speaker D Okay.

Speaker A I'd rather be in the car. I, like, got so much flexibility.

Speaker C That could be a question of the day.

Speaker B Is like car, train, or plane gun in my head.

Speaker A I'm still taking flying. I'm a big talker, but I also. I'm impatient.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker C I like the car because I have privacy, which is big. I don't feel like I'm surrounded by strangers.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C I have to go through, like, the hassle of going through tsa. This was not the question of the.

Speaker D Day, by the way.

Speaker E No, no.

Speaker A But we're doing it now.

Speaker C We're exploring this totally different topic. Yeah. I prefer the car. I also can play my music loud and.

Speaker A Actually, you know what? I'm officially going road trip also because I used to bring my dog.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Leaving Sierra behind is always a bonus for me.

Speaker C Yeah. And if you're in the car, you're always near a window, which was my answer to the original question of the day. Nice window on a plane.

Speaker E Yeah. Why?

Speaker C Because I like melancholy looking out the window, thinking about all of the people below me.

Speaker B Why is that a melancholy thought, Sonder?

Speaker D I don't know.

Speaker C I sincerely like the window because I'm tucked into the corner like a little cinnamon Roll. Just comfy, cozy. I also try not to drink a ton of water on a plane so I don't have to squeeze by people.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C I can just hide in the corner like a small squirrel.

Speaker A I'm. I. For. The exact reason that you mentioned is I'm constantly trying to drink water. And I also just really hate. I don't know if it's bothering people or just, like, unforced conversations, but just, like, the awkward scenario of having to ask people to move for me to go to the bathroom is reason enough for me to go to the aisle. Also, as I get older, my knees are junkier, and I just need the one leg flex out to be able to go into the aisle. That causes problems. I'm oftentimes, like, accidentally kicking somebody walking by or, like, the food cart comes by and I don't even notice it, but.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C Are you a plane sleeper? Do you fall asleep on a plane?

Speaker B No.

Speaker A I used to on every single flight, and I can't think of the last. I did fly.

Speaker E I did.

Speaker A I'll sleep on the way to tmb, but on the way back then.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I almost never sleep.

Speaker C Okay. See, I think that's the difference because I'm a big plane sleeper, so if I'm passing out, I am curled up against the wall of the plane.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C And. Or my head is just lolling back and forth.

Speaker A The window is definitely clutch for sleeping. I just can't. Good. Nice. Well done. Let's do the. These are just so straightforward. I love this. This is the triple crown of seafoods.

Speaker C Big fan. Big fan of a seafood. Love a seafood. Should I go first?

Speaker B Yes. Cool.

Speaker C I think we're gonna go the easy route first thing.

Speaker D All right.

Speaker C Seafoods. Is this anything that is in the sea and is food? We're going general. Are we going specifically, like, anything that is like a small sea bug?

Speaker A No, you can do anything that you want.

Speaker C Anything in the sea.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Okay, cool.

Speaker C I think we know the easy one. Salmon. I love me a salmon roll. I had it for lunch. Little sushi. Salmon moment. It's yum. Big fan.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Sushi moment. I'm now realizing we might have some conflict because I'm going more genres, although I guess some of mine are a specific fish, but salmon's a good one. Would not have been in my top three, so my first pick, and this might be kind of overlap, was sushi.

Speaker C Oh, I know.

Speaker A That's kind of basic.

Speaker C That's many seafoods. Yeah, I know, but no, it kind of makes sense.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A Okay. I'll go more Specific. Because you're right. That is. That's kind of too broad. I'm gonna go instead with fish tacos. Breaded tilapia.

Speaker C Oh yeah. I love it a lot.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Like specifically cabbage. Need some sort of mayo based.

Speaker C An aioli, if you will.

Speaker E Yeah, I will.

Speaker C Big fan of a fish taco.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A When I'm near the ocean. Because the seafood is not the best in Denver. Shockingly, I. I just have to consume seafood until I'm sick of it.

Speaker C I did find a dollar fish taco here in the city that is actually really good.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Where.

Speaker C Yeah, I'm gonna gatekeep it because I don't want people on the podcast to know where it is.

Speaker A You have to at least tell me after we're recording here.

Speaker C Would you believe it's an Irish pub?

Speaker A Is it the one on Broadway?

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker D Ungate kept.

Speaker A Good. My next one. I took notes and they disappeared. I don't know what happened. Did you hack into my computer?

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker C I'm a chronic seafood hacker.

Speaker D Deleter.

Speaker A You took my name and now my notes for my next one. This is kind of so similar to my previous one, but if I'm speaking honestly, a Wisconsin fish fry.

Speaker C Explain. There's a difference.

Speaker A Probably not too dissimilar to just like your average fish and chips order at any restaurant, but there's just something specific about the culture of the Wisconsin fish fry. I'm thinking like Northwoods has to be a Friday night. Everyone's at the fish fry on Friday night. Probably looking at cod and like a old fashioned or three. But yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Seafood, like lake food. I'm thinking Wisconsin fish fries.

Speaker D Okay.

Speaker C This is making me think of like Detroit style pizza. Like Cleveland style pizza, Chicago style. Is this like the Wisconsin style fish fry?

Speaker A I think the reach of the Wisconsin fish fry is. If Chance were here, she'd back me up. As someone from New York that I'm sure was exposed to a lot of seafood, the Wisconsin fish fry is like a real thing.

Speaker C I believe you.

Speaker A I have to try it to that point. There's a bar, I'm going to look it up. Kind of halfway between golden and Boulder that does a Friday fish fry. And I've never been, but I've heard it's very good.

Speaker C The very Denver specific episode I'm liking.

Speaker A In Wisconsin. But yeah, those are my first two.

Speaker D Got it.

Speaker C Next thing is an oyster. I'm a big oyster culture girly. I like finding out all the different flavorful oyster varieties and I like the Ceremony of everybody sitting around and going, okay, 1, 2, 3. And, like, throwing back a little lobster. Little oyster. Oh, that's actually my third one is lobster.

Speaker A Lobster.

Speaker D Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A Freudian slipped. Your third.

Speaker B I did, yeah.

Speaker C But anyway, I love me an oyster. I think it's fun. I like to coat it in lemon and. And a little bit of hot sauce.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C Throw her back.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker B Is.

Speaker A Is it oysters that it's supposed to be, like, the aphrodisiac, or is that.

Speaker C No.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker C I think that's an oyster.

Speaker B Is it?

Speaker C Yeah.

Speaker A I'm not a big oyster person.

Speaker C Really. Most people, I feel like, aren't.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C They're very, like, snotty. If you have one bad oyster, I feel like you never want to have them again.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C But if you have a really good one, you're hooked.

Speaker A I wish I liked it because I like the culture around it. Like, I feel like anytime it's on a menu, it's at kind of like, a. Typically a nicer place.

Speaker B But.

Speaker A Yeah, I don't think I've ever had an oyster where I was like, that.

Speaker E Was a good time.

Speaker C Put it on your to do list.

Speaker A Figure out oysters. And three was lobster.

Speaker C Three was lobster.

Speaker A Another one I'm not a fan of.

Speaker B Really?

Speaker A We're definitely not ordering the same thing from the menu.

Speaker C No. Sounds like it. No. I love a lobster bisque. Big lobster bisque. Like, the ceremony of having a fancy little lobster maybe for, like, a celebration. If it wasn't gonna be lobster, it was gonna be crab. But there's something savage about cracking open a crab.

Speaker B Totally agree.

Speaker C Makes me feel like caveman.

Speaker A It's like eating a pistachio, like, but something living and screaming when you boil them alive.

Speaker D The Venn diagram of things you crack open.

Speaker A Pistachios and crabs give me its own triple crown. My hot take is that crab is significantly better than lobster.

Speaker C I think that's reasonable.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A To me, lobsters.

Speaker C But one has culture. Like, I'm gonna be wearing a top hat if I have some lobster.

Speaker D A lobster thermidor.

Speaker A I remember after finishing the at, my parents came out. My whole family came out, and we went to, like, a. A proper seafood restaurant, and I got lobster thinking, like, this was gonna be the best meal of my life. And, like, meh. And I had it. I've had it a handful of times more since then. Always, meh for me.

Speaker C And to celebrate your entire family coming out of the closet, that would have been a really beautiful lobster celebration.

Speaker A Coming out of the closet. What's happening?

Speaker C That's What I heard coming out.

Speaker A Oh, yeah, that's right.

Speaker B No, it's.

Speaker A We celebrate big events with lobster.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A But crab is good.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker A It's got, like, a sweeter taste to it.

Speaker C I mean, both soak it in butter.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Both benefit from butter. Everything benefits from butter.

Speaker C Hashtag butter benefit.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A My last one. I'm gonna go with a poke bowl.

Speaker C Oh, good answer.

Speaker B Specifically.

Speaker A Mahi.

Speaker C Just one mahi.

Speaker A Mahi. Mahi. Yeah, the double. The mahi.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I don't know how long poke bowls have been out. Like, if this is something that has entered the zeitgeist in, like, the last five years or so, maybe on, like, a popular scale.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A It was not in my purview until probably that time frame. And it was love at first sight for me. The combination of the rice, fresh fish, got some sesame seeds, cucumber. There's a ton of ways that you can dance it up, but, yeah, poke bowls are the best.

Speaker C Yep, an easy go to healthy meal if you're in an unfamiliar city. Just like a poke bowl.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker D Big fan, though.

Speaker A I will say I've been struggling with raw fish of late. This was just some random, I want to say, Instagram reel or something. Something like that of some guy that was about to smoke some salmon and so he had doused it in a bunch of spices and a bunch of, like, worms were crawling out of it.

Speaker C No.

Speaker A And apparently that's true for, like, all raw fish.

Speaker D Shut up.

Speaker A Yeah, I have to dig. I want to know more, but it ruins. I mean, I'm sure I could force myself to do it, but I will not be looking at raw fish the same way.

Speaker C God. Extra protein.

Speaker A I think that was the top comment. Honestly. It was like, bonus protein. Yeah.

Speaker D Gosh.

Speaker A So I hope we get emails about that one. People that are in the know about what's happening with parasites and worms and raw fish.

Speaker C Because if you're a parasitologist, please write in.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker C Or sushi chef.

Speaker A Because I know, like, when you make poke at home or sushi, you're supposed to be getting the sushi grade fish. And I think that's the reason is it's just. Just far less likely to have parasites. And I think a lot of people cut that corner. So I'm just wondering, like, are there a shitload of people out there with parasites roaming around in their stomachs because they're getting cheaper fish and getting it raw?

Speaker D What is sushi grade?

Speaker A I don't know.

Speaker C What makes it different?

Speaker A That's a great question. What is sushi?

Speaker C Like, did someone just feel like this salmon could go into a sushi.

Speaker A Sushi grade is not an officially regulated term but a marketing claim of course indicating a few fish sellers belief that the fish is safe for raw consumption primarily due to being previously frozen to kill parasites according to FDA guidelines.

Speaker C Marketing jargon.

Speaker A Yeah, I feel like that's something that should be regulated. If this is like the process that goes into making it parasite free.

Speaker B I don't know.

Speaker D So if I just got like a.

Speaker C Slab of raw salmon but it wasn't sushi grade, that's more likely to have parasites in it according to this. Okay, if you're a parasitologist, please write in. Yeah, I need comfort.

Speaker A Yeah, I mean so when you cook it, you cook the parasites as well. So at that point, bonus protein. But yeah, eating it raw, no thank you.

Speaker C I'm never trusting my fishmongerer again.

Speaker A Yeah, I'm out. I'm out. Since seeing it, I have not gotten grocery store sushi and I didn't wanna make the comment, when do you got grocery store sushi?

Speaker E Today.

Speaker C Do me a favor and never say that ever again.

Speaker A Yeah, sorry. Sorry for ruining your life.

Speaker C Yeah, while I'm at it, I quit.

Speaker A Yeah, yeah, but you'll need the health care policy that's provided.

Speaker D I forgot I said I forgot I said it.

Speaker A Mailbag.

Speaker B Hi.

Speaker A I started listening to BPR a couple years ago when I first heard Daniel Windsor talk about his book Crunch, which I read it has rekindled my goal of backpacking a thru hike on the JMT. I heard of the PCT in 1983 and thought this would be an epic journey someday. But I really mostly love the Sierra and don't have the time or really the desire to do all of the PCT. Who knows, maybe completing the JMT will change my mind. For almost 20 years I could ride my bike like a maniac. But if you asked me to go for a walk, I'd almost always say no. At 47, my left hip went bad and finally had it replaced at 53. At 57, my right hip took a turn for the worse. Pain was something I just thought I was going to live with for the rest of my life. It turned me into a grump and I hated standing. Not to mention walking. That doesn't sound like fun, but having my right hip replaced, I found not only could I walk, but I felt like I could walk forever. So I'm listening to your podcast religiously, literally like church on Monday and binge watching YouTube videos on hiking the JMT. Thanks for the terrific content and the personalities you bring to this work. Stay tuned. Tom. Hoagie, like the sandwich or the golf.

Speaker B Or whichever you prefer.

Speaker A I had to look up the golfer and this is somebody who golfs. I hadn't. I was not familiar with the hoagie name.

Speaker C I'm definitely not. I'd look to you, you said, Jess.

Speaker D What do you think? Big fan of hoagie.

Speaker A It was funny you talking about the sports culture at your previous job and just how isolating that was for you.

Speaker C Like, I'm not going to pretend to care about a sport I don't care about. The sports I do care about I will sincerely engage with. But I don't know.

Speaker A You care about. I mean.

Speaker B Or not.

Speaker A Do you call hiking a sport?

Speaker C Absolutely not.

Speaker B No, no.

Speaker C I'd say like when softball is on TV or like I'm at my local high school softball game, I care about that.

Speaker A Are there like professional softball, like players that you could name?

Speaker C Are there Star softball in my prime, I could name them, but no, I.

Speaker A Could not name a single softball.

Speaker C I have been into tennis lately. My boyfriend's very into tennis. I'm into tennis. Oh, those I can name Andrew Agassi. He's one.

Speaker C Oh gosh. Who's the. The new ones. The fancy new ones.

Speaker A I know the two guys because they're in every final now.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A There's Sinner.

Speaker C Yes, Sinner, the Italian fella who looks.

Speaker A A lot like Reber.

Speaker C It looks like a Weasley, but he's also super Italian.

Speaker A Yeah. And Alcaraz.

Speaker D Alcarez, the Spanish dude.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A I've watched two. I'm not even a tennis person and I've watched two of their finals matches. It is so fun.

Speaker C Oh, it's.

Speaker D Yeah.

Speaker C Time flies by.

Speaker A They're incredible. Yeah. No, I think they're single handedly saving tennis right now because yeah, they are fun to watch.

Speaker C Next generation.

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A But yeah, thanks to Tom for that email. Honestly, very heartwarming to hear that it went from standing being painful to you now. Love walking. That's awesome. Five star review.

Speaker D I'll let you take this five star review.

Speaker C Many thanks. This is from Trailhead Dan. Just wanted to say thanks to the whole crew. With kids, the age minor and a lack of recoiled backpacking infrastructure in our lives, my opportunities to get out into the mountains and trails for multiple days is limited. I spend most of my outdoors time trail running for as many hours as my family and job can handle it. But having backpacker radio to keep me company while I'm driving or performing yard work or the dishes or when I have to work deep into the night, I just need some friendly voices. Talking to usually interesting people about the kind of stuff that helps me to feel free can make a huge difference in my week. P S. It's totally a blessing when the guests aren't a hundred percent barn burner. Interesting. Just wanted to add a little snark to my unabashed praise. I can't thank you enough for being out there and doing this. Thank you Trailhead Dan It's a true.

Speaker A Fan of the show that says that it's a blessing when the guests aren't always the most interesting. Like thank you. Sometimes the hosts aren't always that interesting.

Speaker B Thanks.

Speaker A That's shade on me, not you. But yeah, shout out to Churl Head Dan, thank you for the very nice note and you guys can hear your review on this podcast. Head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us any number of stars when.

Speaker C That not 1, 2, 3 or 4.

Speaker A Yeah, nailed it. And screenshot your review. Send us a note at Podcast the Trek Co and we will send send you a Backpacker radio sticker. I should also flag if you want to send us a mailbag. That's podcastruck co or go to backpackradio.com there's a mailbag form there too. And a huge shout out to today's title sponsor. Elements. They are the best. I drank the out of it on the Tour de Mont Blanc. I drink the out of it pretty much all the time. It is the best. If I'm in the sauna, I will have up to three of them per day. All of the flavors are good. My personal favorites are the lemonade, which I don't know if we've made mention yet, but that's now a mainstay.

Speaker C Oh, it is.

Speaker A They introduce it as a seasonal flavor. They retired it, I think maybe because retirements are a good marketing strategy and now it's one of the main staples.

Speaker C So maybe they'll bring out McRib next.

Speaker A That's you got to bring out McRib and the what's the Shamrock Shake. All the crowd favorites. But yeah, Element is the best and you definitely need it on. You need electrolytes on your backpacking trips. I've had hyponatremia and that sucks ass. Don't do that. Use our URL drinkelementlmnt.com trek for a free sample pack with your order again drinkelement.com trek for a free sample pack thank you to our Trek Norris Award winners on Patreon. That is Alex and Misty with Navigators Crafting. Andrew Austin McDaniel. Bill Jensen. Bradon Blair from 13 Adventures. Brian Allop Fables. Carl Hood, Christopher Marshburn. Clint Sitler. Coach from a outdoors. Eric Casper from the Ghost. Eric Hoffman. Ethan Harwell. Done. Jillian Daniels. Go Bills. Greg Knight. Greg Martin.

Speaker C May he bring honor to his name.

Speaker A No.

Speaker C Ah, shoot.

Speaker A Where did I skip the.

Speaker E No.

Speaker A Yeah, we were too early. Greg Knight.

Speaker B Greg Martin.

Speaker A Did we lose someone? McDaniel. Oh, I don't want to call somebody out for not being a Patreon.

Speaker C Oh, yeah.

Speaker A I don't know if they left or if that's an omission, but Greg McDaniel's always a legend.

Speaker C Whether or not.

Speaker A No, we're going to keep going.

Speaker D Oh, okay.

Speaker A Griffin. Hey, would you bring me a beer? Haley Buckingham Palace. Matt from Gilbert, Arizona. Patrick C. And C. Rebecca Brave.

Speaker B Rural jurors.

Speaker A Sawyer products spam, the St. Louis shaman, Timothy, Hannah Solo and Tracy Trigger fonts. That was better.

Speaker D That was better than the first one.

Speaker C You forgot one.

Speaker A Who'd I forget?

Speaker C Rebecca Braveheart, Right?

Speaker E Yeah.

Speaker A Say it three times now. Did I want to leave anyone out? Rebecca Braveheart. Rebecca Braveheart. Rebecca Braveheart.

Speaker B Wow.

Speaker A Give a little Dead aired so people can really soak up the preserve that thanks to our guy Paulie at Old man Murph's Coffee roasters. Go to omm cr.com get yourself some delicious beans. You can follow us on social backpacker radio and Instagram and Tik Tok backpacker Potomac, facebook.com backpacker radio.

Speaker C You can follow Jess at Just Hikes trails on Instagram.

Speaker A And yeah, just is turning out all the awesome content on the trek socials at the trek co at Appalachian Trail, Pacificcrest Trail. All the good stuff's coming out.

Speaker C Y better follow it so you can get more of me.

Speaker A Yeah, that's right. Can never get enough jest. Subscribe and follow us on Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, follow us on YouTube. What's up, YouTube? And that is it for today's show. Thank you so much for listening and happy hiking.

Speaker B Bye.

Speaker A Take a look at this guy. How'd he lose that hand? I bet you it was some kind of crazy adventure, right?

Speaker B Let's find out.

Speaker A Let's go find some. Hey, bro, how'd you lose that hand?

Speaker B Diabetes.

Speaker E Oh.

Speaker A That'S not much of an adventure, is it?

Speaker B I've been out walking slow many miles.

Speaker A I've yet to go Never been one that's had to choose but every time.

Speaker B I do I find I lose I guess I'm a loser stomping ground A welcome, man, to the loving crowd I wish that you knew.

Thru-Hiking 11,000+ Miles Together with Chris and Sara, aka Endless and QB (BPR #326)

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