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Strengthening the Relationship with Your Adult Child :: Kathy Cunningham [Ep 543]
In this episode of the Don't Mom Alone podcast, host Heather McFadian welcomes Kathy Cunningham, a Christian counselor, to discuss the complexities of parenting adult children. They explore the i...
Strengthening the Relationship with Your Adult Child :: Kathy Cunningham [Ep 543]
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Hey y'all welcome back to the Don't Mom Alone podcast.
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I'm your host, Heather McFadian and this is the place where I want to walk alongside
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you and connect you with people and resources so you know that you don't mom alone.
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And in this episode number 543, I'm welcoming to the show Kathy Cunningham.
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We try to control it all right especially as moms.
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Well the basis of control often is fear and I think fear is the biggest driver and I get that.
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I've been there. We're afraid they're going to fail. We're afraid they're going to get hurt.
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We're afraid they're going to make bad decisions and the reality is many of those things can happen.
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But we really cannot control it as much as we think we can.
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And the more we try the more we actually push them away and often push them a little bit into those situations.
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So when we can pull back and we can do more listening and hearing and this is the biggest thing that we want to create.
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We want to create safety.
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Kathy is a Christian counselor or Dane minister coach and interhealing ministry leader and not only is she going to guide us today.
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She's going to share personally her journey of healing transformation and restored connection with her adult children.
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We're going to talk about what do you do when your children are walking through addiction in their teen and young adult years.
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What about the ever growing situation of parent and child.
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A strange that so many are walking through that she sees in her counseling practice.
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And why our own healing journey is the key to restoring connection.
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If you are looking for help with your adult children, I'm just thrilled that I get to connect you with Kathy.
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She's such a kind voice in this area.
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She has a lot of free resources on her website.
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So make sure you check our show notes.
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She also has a free ebook and a great supportive membership program that you can join if you are wanting that restoration in your own life and that process to begin.
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Definitely go check those links out in the show notes.
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Let's get right to it. Here we go.
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Kathy, welcome to the Don't Mom Alone podcast.
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Thank you Heather. I am so glad to be here. This is an important topic.
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It is and it is one I have not covered because I tell them all the time. I'm a very selfish podcaster and until I hit a stage.
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I don't think about having episodes on it.
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So I now officially have an 18 year old and a 20 year old and head into the season.
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I have older nieces and nephews. I'm watching it from afar.
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And yeah, I just send in enough conversations with moms that it feels like in parenting, your first kids are your guinea pig kids and you're learning how to do this.
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And we just had a guest on and he talks about how you need to change your parenting style.
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And I feel like you change when they're going in the middle school high school.
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But I feel like there's another shift that happens when they become adults.
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And we need guidance.
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So you're here for that today.
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But I want people to get to know you and why you're qualified to be doing this.
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So tell us a little bit about your background.
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How you even got started helping parents with adult children.
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Yeah. Well, my background is a Christian counselor and a biblical counselor.
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Also a coach. I also am an ordained minister.
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So I've been a ministry most of my life.
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I've had a private practice for probably about 15 years.
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And to be honest with you, this was not my main theme.
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My main theme up until probably about six months ago was really inner healing.
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And but the reason that was my main theme was a big fan.
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We didn't talk about this, but I'm a big fan. Yes.
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Oh, good. Good.
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Yeah. And that base guy had a process that I took my clients through the six week eight week process of inner healing, generational patterns, our belief systems, you know, what we believe based on experience, resentment, letting go of that.
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And then even grief.
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So that was all part of what I was doing for years.
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But the reason I was doing that is because of my own story with my adult children because I went through a very, very difficult time in different ways with each one of them.
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I have a daughter and a son and we have a great relationship today.
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But I do a credit much of that to the fact that God showed me at some point.
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And we'll get into this later. I needed to work on me, you know, I'm trying to change them. I'm trying to correct them. I'm trying to control them.
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And I have at some point a little later than I would have liked God kind of said, I think you are the ones that needs to work on you.
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Not think he said you are the one.
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So that's pretty confident you're the one.
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Yeah.
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And so I started my own healing journey and the things that I found were so good for me and healed so much of my wounds and past and really helped me to be the person I need to be to have a good relationship with my adult children is what I developed into my inner healing process as a counselor and coach.
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So how did I get into this topic? I noticed in the last five years when we talked about this just a bit before he even got on that there's been a shift in our culture of a lot of strain even a
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little bit of strain with adult children and parents like I have never seen before. And I think it probably was longer but I noticed it about five years ago and I noticed it with my clients and my clients are mainly the adult children.
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So I'm hearing their perspective. I also like I said it's struggled in my relationship with my adult children. So there was a personal part but there was a professional part also.
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And I started slowly kind of delving into this probably the end of last year a little bit more post on Instagram about this subject.
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And then in January I did a 21 day pre-enthasting thing I do at the beginning of every year and felt just this nudge very very clear nudge from the Lord from the Holy Spirit that kind of was telling me this is your new direction.
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And this is how I'm almost 100% sure that it was him. I changed the way I was posting on Instagram. And I had about 8,000 followers at that time within two weeks after I kind of got that assignment.
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And I shifted just a bit. I went from like 8,000 to 50,000 followers. And if you're on social media at all that just doesn't happen. And I always say this with a lot of not false humility just reality. I'm not that smart to figure that out. I wasn't seeing an Instagram coach.
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I was. Yeah. Wow. Wow. I mean it just it says a couple things one your obedience and your attunement to the spirit to follow that direction and two.
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The need. Yes.
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Yes. Yes. And which is what you were noticing. I think it really does help. I've interviewed other counselors when they can anecdotally be like I'm seeing this over and over again. Yeah.
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Like anxiety was a thing with kids. It's like I'm seeing this. So maybe we need to. So yeah, that is really interesting. And yeah, that's how I found you was I saw a few Instagram posts. And I'm like this is so good. We need to talk for sure.
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Yeah. So how long ago was it your own inner healing and working with your kids. So I would like to say it was like 30 years ago, but it wasn't.
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It was like 10 years ago.
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So it's about 10 years ago. And you know, I didn't even know I needed it honestly. So I went for many, many years. And that's why I always tell parents it's never too late.
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I hear this from a lot, you know, well, I've missed it. They're already adults. Well, if you missed it that I missed it and we're doing pretty good right now. So you you got this.
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If you've already raised your kids, because I was 10 years ago, they were both, you know, adults.
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Now my son was struggling with addiction. And so I had that situation going on. He'd been struggling with addiction for about 15 years.
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My daughter is just strain in our relationship and something had to come up about it was probably a little over 10 years ago.
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I thought we were in a good place, honestly. And then this thing came up that suddenly I found out we weren't. It was just me thinking we're okay.
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She was struggling with some things that had happened in childhood. I had no idea that she was struggling with.
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And so we had to work through that. And I always tell people I would love to tell you when she came to me and told me these things.
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I was empathetic. I was kind, but I was not. I was defensive. I was angry. I did all the wrong things.
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So if you had told me 10 years ago, I'd be sitting here having this conversation, giving other people advice on their children.
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I would have laughed because it was a mess. It was chaotic. And within 10 years of me shifting and really starting to work more.
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I would have been more on myself than anything else. We're in a great place. My son's nine years sober.
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My daughter and I have amazing relationship.
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Yes, thank you. That's a big deal.
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He's an incredible person. We often do things together. He helps so many people now on the other side.
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I could almost cry. That just gives so much hope to so many parents.
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Yes. Yes. And that is my goal. That is what I want to do because I know what it's like to feel.
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It's never going to change. It's never going to get better.
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And it does. And it can. But there are things we have to do.
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I mean, I just the tears in my eyes are I've had enough conversations with the homes really are they truly feel like this will never change.
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Yes. My child will always struggle and not knowing their part. So, okay, we got to get them some some incredible.
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Yes. We got hope going.
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Yes.
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Let's do it. Let's keep going.
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And I think I think I mentioned these transitions that require us to shift what's worked before.
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Yeah.
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What as you look back on that transition into adulthood, what most surprised you are like maybe you didn't do it right when you were going through it.
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But if you could coach someone now who's in that transition like me.
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Yeah. What what should I be paying attention to?
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Well, I think the biggest surprise and the thing, of course, we didn't know.
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We're just starting to delve into this topic a little bit.
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So there wasn't any information back then. But I don't think we understand how much we have to shift in our in the way we relate to our children as they become adults.
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You know, our position changes.
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And we don't realize it. So we keep doing what we did, right?
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And that does not give us good results.
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Most of the time.
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Like when we're saying adult, I'm thinking, okay, I have an 18-20 year old, but they're both in their payroll still.
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I mean, they have jobs and they pay for a lot of stuff.
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Yeah.
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It's kind of, I've heard parents say that well as long as they're on my payroll, X, Y, and Z.
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And they're about with either your clients who are the adult kids or parents.
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Like, yeah.
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And it is different.
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And I want to make that very clear.
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It's different when they're just, they call me merging adults.
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You know, they're many adults. They're not on their own 100% independent.
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But it's during those years, you want to start practicing these concepts.
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Because what we do in our culture now, and I think it's just because maybe the way we were raised, but this grouping of parents.
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And that can be anywhere from like, you know, your 40s up until, you know, way past, you know, we have adult children, but all different seasons and stages.
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So when they're younger, we want to begin to implement more independence, you know, not getting so involved, let them make their own decisions.
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But we're still there.
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We still have input because they're in our home.
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And we're probably talking about that a little bit later.
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It's our home.
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We have a right to have certain agreements.
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I like to say agreements instead of rules within the home of what that's going to look like.
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But we want to be teaching them and helping them gain more and more independence, even probably starting about 16, 15 or 16 in certain areas financially, let them fail.
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Not not for risky behavior. I'm not talking about that. But we are way over involved as parents in our culture.
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It's just the way we've all been and we've kind of all done that. But it has not served our adult children well because they're there, you know, we statistically.
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I think they're 60% of adult children and we're talking into their late 30s are still financially dependent on their parents.
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That would have been unheard of in, you know, my generation.
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And I know they were probably too, too much of that.
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You know, so I think we've swung the pendulum away over to the other side.
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So that would be one of my biggest advices for someone that still has them at home.
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Treat them as though they are adults, but you're there when they really need that help.
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So, you know, it's kind of like this balancing act that you are creating.
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Let them make their own choices. Have hard conversations. Don't try to control everything around their lives because they won't be ready whenever they do launch out and go into their own independence outside your home.
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And it's hard. I'm not saying this is easy. It is not.
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There's a great book. I want to recommend for that age group, particularly by Jim Burns.
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It's called, it's called doing life with your adult children.
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He says, keep the welcome mat out and keep your mouth shut.
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It's a great book that really talks mainly about that age group that's still maybe at home and just starting to launch into adulthood.
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So what is our role? Like what do we do when they so it's like we don't know what not to do.
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Keep them out of that. Don't control.
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But how does our role change and how can we kind of own that and double down on that?
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Because you and I were talking we can only control ourselves.
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Right. Right.
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And while that we can know that in the moment, it's so tempting to want to quote unquote help them.
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Yeah.
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I think the great thing anybody listening to this podcast and you Heather, you know, there's an awareness there.
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There was an awareness I did not have and many people do not have.
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So the first key is awareness.
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And then with that awareness, we begin to look at things and say, okay, what can I do to have the best result?
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In the situation and the first thing I feel like is the most important.
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We got to look within ourselves and say, am I healthy?
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Am I able to have a hard conversation?
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Am I able to release and let my adult child, even if they're at home, make certain decisions that I don't have to get involved in?
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Am I always giving advice? Am I managing their life?
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Because the goal is to go from manager and control to chair leader and influencer.
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Now, are you still going to be a parent?
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Of course you're going to be a parent. You're always going to be a parent.
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But it's going to shift and get ready because it's going to shift often.
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It's not like one shift.
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There's the initial shift, but then there's going to be more.
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They're going to get married one day. They're going to have kids one day.
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They're going to go to college.
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All those are shifts that we have to keep kind of evolving as the parent and how we relate to our adult child.
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So I think that's going to be your first one is to really be asking yourself, am I doing too much?
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Am I in any way enabling them in a way that's keeping them from growing into an adult?
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And what are some of the beliefs or what you've seen and maybe work through with parents that cause us to overly involve ourselves or to overly help or...
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You know, not do that move kind of back to cheerleader and support her.
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I think the biggest... I mean, when you think about what is the basis of control?
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So we try to control it all, right? Especially as moms.
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Well, the basis of control often is here.
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And I think fear is the biggest driver. And I get that.
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I've been there. We're afraid they're going to fail.
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We're afraid they're going to get hurt. We're afraid they're going to make bad decisions.
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And the reality is many of those things can happen.
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But we really cannot control it as much as we think we can.
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And the more we try, the more we actually push them away and often push them a little bit into those situations.
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So when we can pull back and we can do more listening and hearing and...
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And this is the biggest thing that we want to create. We want to create safety.
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We want to create a safe environment that they can come and pretty much they anything with respect to us.
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And we can keep our emotions, at least on the outside, under control to where they feel they can bring these things to us.
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They can have a discussion with us. We're not going to over-react. We're not going to try to fix it.
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We're not going to get upset. And that's hard, you know, because again,
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we live in a very scary world, right?
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So I think that that feeds, it's that fear.
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And of course, from a spiritual perspective, that is exactly what the enemy wants to feed into us, all these fears.
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So that's where our relationship, our trust in God, is going to come into it.
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I mean, I think my relationship with God grew so much more when my kids became adults than ever when they were younger.
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Do you feel it? I mean, I know we feel it like in the stage of high schoolers and college where it's like where they go into college.
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Is it that whole, this idolization of family and what your kids are doing with their life, that yes, there's the fear that they could really get hurt or they could really go off the path.
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And it could be bad. But there's also like this pride, or I don't even know what the word is, of like what are other people going to think if you go this path?
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Have you had a struggle through that with adult kid?
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I mean, you mentioned your son with his struggle with addiction.
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Absolutely. How did you manage that?
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Because that to me could make me want to control.
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My reputation is on the line.
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And I think that's so good that you brought that up.
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I think that is one of the biggest things that we struggle with.
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And of course, having a son that's struggling with addiction, we try to kind of keep it secret for a long time.
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I didn't, and you know, I do want to say this, if you have a situation with one of your adult children, everybody doesn't need to know.
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You know, you need to invite people in that are going to be helpful, not hurtful to the situation.
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And it's their story also. So you want to be careful how much you're sharing.
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But you got to have support.
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And I didn't even tell my closest prayer partners because I had like a little group of women that I met with.
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And I didn't tell them for six months because I was so ashamed.
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And I think as Christians, often we do this worse than anyone because we do want to keep that image.
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We do feel somewhat of a pressure to have a certain way that our life is going.
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And I certainly did.
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And so I just am hopeful that as we have these conversations, we can get rid of some of that taboo stuff, that shame that seems to permeate us as Christian parents that is always our fault.
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Or it's a reflection on us when our children, you know, make choices that aren't good.
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Because it isn't our fault.
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It isn't what we did or didn't do.
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I mean, with rare cases, there might be but most of the time it's not.
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So yeah, that's a biggie.
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And we've just got to let go of that.
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I think that starts with finding and having some true trusted friends that we can start with.
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When I'm already brainstorming for you, like an online community might be nice of strangers, but you know, it's like when you're walking through something other people who understand.
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Yes.
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Oh, that's that is so key.
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That is by the way.
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I just want to put a plug in real quick for a group that I facilitate called pal parents of addicted loved ones there.
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And you can look them up online palgroup.org.
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And that's exactly what people need as they place to go where people are on that same journey.
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They get it.
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And they have that they have groups like that for various situations.
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But even my friends is wonderful as they were.
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They didn't understand they were there.
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They pray for me, but they didn't understand that exact situation.
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I was walking through that.
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So to have a space that people got it, I could say kind of crazy things in love.
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Yeah, that happened to me too.
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Yeah.
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That makes all the difference.
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We can say this thing of, you know, how to support and you know, be cheerleader.
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But I know that in that unique situation, the rules shift a little bit.
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Absolutely.
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You can't get it.
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It's a very, you can find yourself in situations where you're wanting.
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I don't know.
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It's just a little trickier.
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So yeah, some of what we're going to talk about may not apply in that situation.
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Well, and the reality is this is crazy.
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It might sound you still are the cheerleader in an addiction situation.
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Yeah.
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Because you want them to know you believe in them.
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You want them to know I believe you can conquer this.
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I'm encouraging you.
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I'm loving you through this with boundaries, of course, with boundaries.
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Because that's the thing.
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It's the trick of not enabling us.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, how do we do that balance of letting go control, but still being present and supported?
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Yeah.
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I know.
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How do we do this practically?
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It sounds good on paper.
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Yeah.
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I think it, you know, and there's so many different situations we're talking about here.
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Right.
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So depending on the situation, I think with us as parents, we have to figure out.
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And every adult child, even in the best of situations, there should be some sort of boundaries.
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You know, we're living separate lives as adults.
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And so we want to have those in place.
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So we need to know what those are.
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We need to be okay with them.
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I hate to even use that word because people hate that word so much.
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And I get so much bad feedback.
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So maybe we could just call it limits.
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Maybe we can call it an example of a limit.
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You know, things like that.
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Well, you know, it'd be like if they're living in your home, I would be like,
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if they're living with you still, what are the chores as all the people living in this home?
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What are our responsibilities?
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Those are boundaries.
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Those are limits.
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Those are agreements.
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Or financial help.
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That's a big one we talked about already.
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You know, with adult children, when do I help?
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When is it too much?
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When should I not help?
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When can I not?
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Because I don't have the finances to do that.
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Respect.
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That's a huge one.
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And that goes both ways.
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Mutual respect as adults is so important.
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So I think those are some examples of boundaries.
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So we have that in place.
spk_0
And then again, depending on the season they're in,
spk_0
that ability to support.
spk_0
So what does support mean without control?
spk_0
It means your presence is there.
spk_0
You're available to talk to.
spk_0
But you know, as asked.
spk_0
Or even if they're sharing with you, you ask them, would you like some feedback on that?
spk_0
Or do you just need to talk about it?
spk_0
You know, so you're there as a supportive, steady presence.
spk_0
And that's why it's so important that we're healthy.
spk_0
Because then we're not overreacting.
spk_0
And we're getting involved in things.
spk_0
We shouldn't be getting involved in.
spk_0
We know what that looks like.
spk_0
You know, I think when we're healthy people,
spk_0
and we've worked on our stuff,
spk_0
we kind of inherently know what support looks like versus, you know, enabling or fixing.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And recognize our own, I mean, I'll give a tiny example.
spk_0
I'm in the college application season.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
One of mine.
spk_0
And he's got a slam dunk resume to get in a lot of different places.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
That heart's not stressful in this situation.
spk_0
But like the hitting the deadlines is stressing me out.
spk_0
And him not being motivated to do his part.
spk_0
And I feel like I keep doing the reminding.
spk_0
And until he finally said a boundary with me, he's like, how about I just own it?
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
And I'm like, okay.
spk_0
Great.
spk_0
But at the same time, I get it's like, I have to reckon with my own fears.
spk_0
Absolutely.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And recognize what my part is and his part is.
spk_0
And if he's willing to own it and have the consequence of, it feels like a big consequence to not get into college.
spk_0
But, you know,
spk_0
And I always tell parents, this is the hard thing of being a parent.
spk_0
A pose to setting boundaries with, or limits, you know, with another person.
spk_0
We carry some of those consequences with us.
spk_0
So that's really hard when we know their consequences are going to be our consequences often.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
If you wait too long and you get accepted later, then it's a residency situation.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
More costly place to live.
spk_0
And it is a financial,
spk_0
yeah, it is a trickier thing.
spk_0
One thing to say, yeah, let them have their failures.
spk_0
But in that season, when they're still.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And so that's where I think that wisdom comes in, even getting a little bit of wise counsel for someone that's been down that road.
spk_0
The one thing we want to be careful about, especially in that age group, is the more we do and the more we take over,
spk_0
the more we are telling them without saying it, I don't think you're capable.
spk_0
And we want them to feel capable.
spk_0
We want them to feel confident that they are able to do these things because that's going to serve them while moving forward.
spk_0
So all we're talking about that, like how what we're communicating,
spk_0
let's talk about that.
spk_0
Let's talk about communication because it is so key in connection with them, especially when you're maybe not even in their presence as much.
spk_0
Let's say there's a lot of kids that live in other cities from their parents now.
spk_0
And so if you get a phone call or a FaceTime, I mean, I have all boys.
spk_0
So that's really worth it.
spk_0
Communication is less.
spk_0
My friends who have girls are like, she FaceTime me three times today.
spk_0
So I get that.
spk_0
But what is our part when we are in those conversations to help a strong relationship develop?
spk_0
I think much of what we talked about, more listening, more hearing.
spk_0
I always think reflective listening is a great thing to do.
spk_0
So they say something you kind of repeat it back to them.
spk_0
Make sure you're hearing it correctly.
spk_0
Let them know I'm hearing you.
spk_0
Our tendency is to be further even done with their sentence is to jump in and give them an answer or give them a solution.
spk_0
And that's what we don't want to do.
spk_0
We want it really to be very low pressure.
spk_0
And we want it to be consistent.
spk_0
So if we don't, if we have, you know, I have a son, I have a daughter and sons.
spk_0
Yeah, they're a little less communicative, you know, they get busy with their lives.
spk_0
And so if I don't hear from my son for a few days, I'll send him a text, you know, low pressure.
spk_0
Hey, just thinking of you, how you do it, you know, whatever, you know, without an expectation that I'm going to get this immediate reply.
spk_0
So very low pressure and research shows that that really is part of a really healthy relationship between adult children and parents when they're not feeling this constant pressure.
spk_0
But still feeling connected.
spk_0
So it's kind of keeping that balance.
spk_0
And then I think the other thing that's really important, we talked about this is just that mutual respect.
spk_0
I am respecting you as an adult.
spk_0
So when they're telling us something, we're not kind of getting defensive or manipulative or shutting them down because we're not agreeing what they're saying.
spk_0
We're listening, we're hearing.
spk_0
And then if needed, giving some feedback, depending on age.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Now I can think of, you know, let's take parents aside.
spk_0
We're just talking about adult relationships.
spk_0
There are people that you're more willing to share things with because of their response.
spk_0
Exactly.
spk_0
You're in a conversation.
spk_0
They're immediately jumping in with advice.
spk_0
I'm not going to share it with them because I'm going to feel dumb right off the bat.
spk_0
And it's so good you brought that up because that's often what we tell our group.
spk_0
You want to get to the point to a certain extent that you're treating your adult child like your neighbor or a good friend.
spk_0
That's where the eventual goal is because just like you said, just the same result you get with friends, you're going to get with them.
spk_0
That's just kind of how we are as humans that we want to feel like people respect us.
spk_0
And they hear us and that we are seen.
spk_0
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So we kind of mentioned it earlier and I kind of want to talk about it now because it's such a big topic and the astrangement piece because I think that boundaries word is so triggering for people because they may have been used by a child to a parent.
spk_0
I don't feel safe with you. I'm setting a boundary and that equals in their mind cutting off communication.
spk_0
So right now we're talking about how do we communicate and listen to all.
spk_0
To speak to the parent who has been cut off received or maybe it wasn't them, maybe it was their spouse was cut off.
spk_0
How do they navigate that and what can they do on their side of that?
spk_0
First of all, it's like the pain of that is it's tremendous.
spk_0
That is such a hard situation.
spk_0
Yeah, we're not minimized. I'm not saying there's easy answers to this because it's not.
spk_0
I think one of the first things I would advise someone to do is get into some sort of support group of people and try to get if possible.
spk_0
I hope for one.
spk_0
There's different support groups and you want to get in one that gives you hope.
spk_0
How would they find that?
spk_0
I can send you a couple of links.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
Preferably maybe a Christian one where people are really giving you hope through faith.
spk_0
I think that's so important.
spk_0
But I want to acknowledge that this is a huge trend of phenomena in our time right now more than ever before.
spk_0
And I do think it has a lot to do with our culture. It has to do with social media.
spk_0
The verbiage has changed around things what used to be you're growing up and your parent yelled at you now it's abuse.
spk_0
All those words are being used now against parents.
spk_0
Now, are there cases that this is necessary?
spk_0
Yes, there is.
spk_0
But they're rare.
spk_0
They're the exception.
spk_0
And it's become so much bigger than that.
spk_0
And so what do parents do?
spk_0
And this is the hard part because if you look at my social media account and you get some of my comments people don't like some of the things I say because it's always back to them.
spk_0
But I get that.
spk_0
I get when they say what about them?
spk_0
Why am I having to do all the work?
spk_0
Well, the reason you're having to do all the work because hopefully you're the healthiest person in the room.
spk_0
And because you want it.
spk_0
And so it's going to take you being the first person to do the work within yourself in the waiting.
spk_0
And if you have no contact there's really nothing you can do except for work on yourself and pray and believe God is going to bring that reconciliation.
spk_0
And I always bring the story of the prodigal thought, the prodigal son in the Bible.
spk_0
The father did not go running after and keep trying to get contact and keep trying to find the son.
spk_0
He stayed back.
spk_0
My guess is he worked on himself because he was very calm when the prodigal son came back.
spk_0
He welcomed him with open arms and that's a healthy person.
spk_0
He wasn't saying how could you do this to me.
spk_0
You know, I'm still angry and upset.
spk_0
He was ready for that product to come back.
spk_0
And I'm sure at some point they had some discussions but at the very beginning it was just welcoming him back, listening and restoring that relationship.
spk_0
And so I think that's a great example of what we have to do.
spk_0
So in the waiting it is releasing because you don't really have another choice and doing some deep work within yourself.
spk_0
So when they come back you are ready to have a good relationship and to be able to hear some of what they might be ready to tell you and navigate through that.
spk_0
One thing that's been in my brain lately and maybe I shouldn't be bringing it up here but I don't know it's my show.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Is this phenomenon I've been watching since 2016 and I feel like it was when our current president was elected the first time.
spk_0
And people were quote unquote deconstructing their faith.
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Yeah.
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And I feel like that has led to this split in true Christ followers.
spk_0
I feel like both of these groups are true Christ followers.
spk_0
They both have faith in Jesus.
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But one group and neither of these people like the titles they've been given.
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But one group is given the title of progressive Christian and another group is given the title of Christian nationalists.
spk_0
And I feel like I'm watching a lot of parent child groupings where it's the parents that are in the Christian nationalists group and the kids that are in the progressive.
spk_0
And it's beyond like you treated me bad when I was young or like you maybe spanked me or used harsh.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Quote unquote discipline.
spk_0
It's now even like we don't see eye to eye on how to treat humans or like these bigger issues of not even just politics but like policies like how people are guided.
spk_0
And so I can't be in relationship with you because it's so hurtful.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
You find that to be true?
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
I have clients whose adult children are not speaking to them because of who they voted for.
spk_0
And because of certain ways they believe that the Bible says that things are certain truths that they stand on.
spk_0
And we can't do anything about what the other person does.
spk_0
But still, I mean, we always kind of have to get that acceptance.
spk_0
There's a thing called radical acceptance.
spk_0
I don't know if you've ever heard that term is kind of a counseling term.
spk_0
And it's just really a mindset that says, I don't agree with this.
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I don't like it, but it is reality.
spk_0
So I have to accept that this is where we are right now.
spk_0
And the more I fight against it and think I can change it, the more destructive it's going to be to me personally and to the other person.
spk_0
So we get in this mindset of radical acceptance around what is going on in our life.
spk_0
And I think when we can do that, we accept the fact this is where they are.
spk_0
And I have to decide what I'm going to do with that.
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Now, if they choose because you voted for someone, they're not going to speak to you.
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All you can do, I always tell parents, just try to stay in contact and say, hey, I love you.
spk_0
If you want to have a conversation, I'd love to.
spk_0
That's going to be on them to figure out when they're ready for that conversation.
spk_0
But if you're still in relationship, and this is attention, I would hope, and I've done this in my family, that you can sit down and have a conversation and hear each other.
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Even if you disagree, that's the goal.
spk_0
And still walk away knowing we're family, we love each other.
spk_0
We carry many of the same values.
spk_0
We just have some disagreement points in this.
spk_0
I think as parents, so because of the way we've been raised sometimes in the different churches we've been at, we feel we have to take this strong stand and convince people and make people think like we do.
spk_0
And that's probably not going to work.
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Now, I'm not saying that you compromise your values at all.
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You stand for what you believe, but you also have to accept.
spk_0
As adults, they can believe what they want to believe, and they can.
spk_0
And we want to respect, that's mutual respect.
spk_0
So to have a conversation, and I've done this, I have a daughter-in-law that does not have the same belief systems as we do.
spk_0
And my son doesn't go to church.
spk_0
He embraces God, but because of some of the things that happen in his life, he does not go to church, but he has a great relationship with God.
spk_0
So we sat, my daughter, my son-in-law, who is probably more on the conservative.
spk_0
I think me and my husband were like in the middle, it's kind of funny.
spk_0
And so we all consider around and talk about these things, and have a great conversation with respect.
spk_0
And that is the goal.
spk_0
And that's the challenge.
spk_0
That's the challenge.
spk_0
The great culture.
spk_0
Yes, but they can be done.
spk_0
Yeah, but I think in general, everyone's saying that, can we have conversation, civil conversations, or we don't agree with each other?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Or do we need to villainize the other side?
spk_0
And we don't.
spk_0
And I just want to say, Heather, I am the most opinionated, I'm a type A person.
spk_0
So I kind of tell people, if I can do this, and I can say calm, anybody can.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
Okay, so what about the mom, I'm going to go back to communication.
spk_0
Okay.
spk_0
What about the mom who wants more connection?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
She can tell it's not there, but she can't, it's like you can't control it.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
What are some practical tips for her?
spk_0
Because if it's not even there, how does she get it going?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
And you may or may not be able to.
spk_0
But what you can do, again, my kind of mantra in life, stack things in your favor.
spk_0
So the first thing is maybe ask yourself, why is there anything that maybe I need to look in the way that I'm doing things that could be pushing them away?
spk_0
And we have to be honest with ourselves because when I kind of went through this struggle, especially with my daughter, I was so taken back, I got very defensive, I put all the walls up.
spk_0
And then I had to start doing some self evaluation.
spk_0
I had to start saying, what part of this?
spk_0
Now, it wasn't in my mind.
spk_0
It wasn't all true.
spk_0
You know, she probably, we've done interviews together and she'd say, well, that's how I saw mom.
spk_0
And that's fine.
spk_0
You know, but that wasn't how I felt.
spk_0
But I did have to look and say, but there's some, there's a kernel of truth in what she's saying.
spk_0
And I need to figure out what that part is in me.
spk_0
So that's the first thing.
spk_0
The second thing is if you can sit down and have a conversation and say, I've noticed there's just seems to be a little bit of distance.
spk_0
Is there anything you can tell me that I can work on?
spk_0
Is there anything that we can work on together to have a stronger relationship?
spk_0
Now, don't do that.
spk_0
If you're not ready to hear the answer, you might have a little more work you need to do on yourself first
spk_0
before you have that conversation.
spk_0
And then if all our stales, you just keep doing the next right thing.
spk_0
We can only keep our side of the sidewalk cleaned up.
spk_0
And we keep that going.
spk_0
And at some point, we keep praying and God's doing the work in their heart.
spk_0
And many times that's where we have to leave it for a while.
spk_0
Yeah, it's hard.
spk_0
It is hard.
spk_0
And like you said, you can feel very connected and they don't.
spk_0
And that's really important feedback.
spk_0
I've unfortunately gotten in my mom journey.
spk_0
But it's right.
spk_0
It's fine.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
What would you say?
spk_0
I think a hard part of this season, if a lot of moms have found identity in mothering is,
spk_0
yeah, you feel kind of not necessary, unneeded and visible.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
It's that transition to like, I think that's part of the reason we want to be involved.
spk_0
And we really drugs because it's like, no, this is who I am.
spk_0
It's a big shift in that way, like identity wise.
spk_0
So what would you say to that mom?
spk_0
I think it's so natural because think about how many years we've been a mom.
spk_0
Right.
spk_0
That's been our almost for many people are main role.
spk_0
Even if we've had a job outside the home and things like that,
spk_0
that's just such a big part of who we are.
spk_0
And so there's a huge shift that happens when they become adults.
spk_0
And I think the first thing we have to do is number one, acknowledge it and acknowledge it for what it is.
spk_0
It's a loss and we have to grieve that loss and we have to kind of get ourselves prepared that it's going to keep shifting.
spk_0
Like I said, it's not a one-time shift.
spk_0
It's going to be different times that this is going to happen over and over again.
spk_0
But we also have to find ourselves because we get wrapped up so much, I think, and, you know, and being a mom.
spk_0
And sometimes I think in our culture, it's been maybe a little too much that we need to pull back and begin to find out who we are.
spk_0
What do we enjoy? What about my other relationships? What about my marriage? What about my friendships?
spk_0
Sometimes we've actually not put in as much to those relationships as we should be putting in tune.
spk_0
We have to kind of re-ignite those, reconnect in those areas and then start finding out some things you love to do.
spk_0
New purpose for our lives.
spk_0
Yeah. But that's a big one and that's a great question because that is truly one of the things I hear the most from moms.
spk_0
Like I don't even know who I am anymore.
spk_0
But that could be a big part of when you said, do the healing on your side.
spk_0
It's not recognizing, wow, I'm taking too much identity and worth from this relationship.
spk_0
spk_0
And yeah.
spk_0
Almost stars, Kathy. I want to talk to you forever.
spk_0
Is there any last piece of wisdom you have for moms and then we're going to tell them how to connect with you?
spk_0
Like there's something you knew your kind on the show and you wanted to make sure you told them.
spk_0
A couple of things. I want to tell them that don't let the enemy get in your head and tell you that you're a failure or you're a bad mom because those are just lies.
spk_0
You're an amazing mom. You were created to be the mom for these children, whether they're children or their adults.
spk_0
You are still a very important person, a very important influence and always will be in their life.
spk_0
I also want to say to a mom that has a child that's struggling, adult child is struggling.
spk_0
Don't give up hope. Keep praying. Keep believing.
spk_0
I had one of the most hopeless situations that I think a person could have.
spk_0
Really feeling that we're going to have a very bad ending to all this is very bad.
spk_0
And just kept standing on God's word and I know it doesn't always turn out like this, but my thought is as long as they're here.
spk_0
And I would say that as long as my son's here, I'm going to keep believing that things can change.
spk_0
And I had a prayer routine I did. And it did. It was like suddenly.
spk_0
And it was when it got the worst that it suddenly changed to become the best.
spk_0
And I love the verse, Genesis 50-20. What was meant to harm me? God turned for good.
spk_0
But not just for myself to put me in a position to help many other people.
spk_0
And I so believe that that is so often what God does with these hard situations in our lives.
spk_0
So never ever give up hope.
spk_0
Love it. So good. So so good.
spk_0
All right. I know we're going to put all the links in the show notes, but I just want you to tell people what's available that you offer because it's a lot of so much goodness.
spk_0
So like what kinds of things would they find on your website?
spk_0
Okay. So my website is Kathy Cunningham.org.
spk_0
And I have some courses on there.
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As I said, my beginning of what I was doing is an interhealing journey.
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And I actually have that course on my website is called Uncovered Grace.
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And it's a six week interhealing journey that is self-led, but I'm very available through email if they're taking the course to ask me questions.
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And then I also have a membership for parents of adult children. And it's called Grace Restored Membership.
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It's a monthly membership cost.
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And I have about 15 different videos and courses in there.
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We have a live community that we connect. I do a monthly support group and a live teaching every month. So those are a couple of options of things that people can look at.
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And if nothing else, look at my Instagram page every day. I put something on there for I always want to for people that can't maybe afford something.
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I always want to put three things out there so that they have something every day to give them encouragement.
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When I'll tell you all, there is a PDF page with like so much amazing stuff.
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Seven keys to waiting well.
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There's a lot of free resources on the site.
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Things not to say to your son in law or daughter in law. I'm going to be looking at that one up.
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I don't have one yet, but maybe the more you over help, the more resentment.
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I mean, like so many great PDF free resources.
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So because some of y'all are like, I can't afford whatever.
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There's Kathy is here to help. And more support you need. She's available.
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But she's not going to force it on you because that's not what adults do.
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That's right. She's just available.
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Kathy, it's been so great. I definitely need to have you come back because I feel like we could go deep on a lot of them as we covered.
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But I really wanted people to know you're out there and connect with you if they're in that season.
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And I think you just provided so much hope. So thank you so much for coming on.
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Thank you Heather. This has been an honor. And I just hope it has brought some hope and encouragement to the parents out there.
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A couple of things I wanted to say before I get to praying.
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One, I know I said in this episode that there's kind of been this split between the progressive and more conservative strands of Christianity.
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I think that it's not always the kids that are leaning towards the more progressive side.
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It can be the parents and then the kids are choosing the more conservative.
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I didn't say that in the interview, but I wanted to make sure you all know that I know this goes both ways.
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Also, that I was at the Spiritual Retreat last weekend and one of the women there was talking about grief and how she learned through her counselor that grief is like you're in the forest.
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And there's all this overgrown brittle wood that is dead, that is kind of it's grown out and it's covering up the son's ability to get to the new growth underneath.
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And the only way through grief is to let that overgrown older wood burn.
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I'm going to have to work through the grief to let the new growth happen.
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And the imagery God gave me was so often some of our struggles with teens and young adults is we're still holding on to these precious memories we have when they were little and who they were when they were little.
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And I think one of my friends, he would say when he looks at pictures of his kids when he they were younger, he was like those kids don't exist anymore.
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This is a totally different person and we kind of have to grieve our children's childhood and let that burn so that we can allow for new relationship to grow with them because if we keep holding them to that standard of who they used to be we don't get the chance of getting to know who they are now.
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So that was something I was just thinking about that I'm prone to and my little digital frame will show me pictures and I just can it just aches it aches for the loss of that time.
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Why am I crying? Oh my goodness, because it's sad it is a sad that's why it's a grief.
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And so and even if you're in a spot of a strangement and you are grieving the loss of relationship, I just pray that you can with God,
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grieve that so that new things can grow restoration can happen. I'm going to pray over us Lord.
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I pray whatever parent is listening to this and is so tender right now Lord whether they are walking with a child through addiction and it is all consuming of their mind and their heart and they are so so so fearful of the path their child is on.
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I pray that you would be their sintering truth and light and anchor for their souls that they can know you most and that they can control what is within their realm which is their belief in you God.
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And I thank you for Kathy sharing her story Lord but for someone in the midst of the middle that they would be comforted.
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God, I also pray over the tender emotions related to a strangement and how hard that can be to no longer have relationship with the child that you have loved and cared for for so many years.
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And I pray that you would help each person in that situation really turn to you and ask Holy Spirit can you reveal to me what's going on in my own heart and mind so that I can be fully aligned with you God and show up how you want me to show up in that relationship.
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Lord, I do pray for full restoration and families that the enemy would no longer come in with division. I know there are legitimate reasons Lord for boundaries to happen between children and parents but Lord, I also believe fully that there is a lot out there that the enemy is having a heyday and causing a lot of unnecessary division and families.
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And I pray that you would help us make sure we're spending time with you so we see people with your eyes and we show grace wherever we show up to love first and I pray Lord, for any situation I can't even think of right now that we know you're there we know you're not surprised and we pray ultimately for full restoration and healing on the way.
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On this on the earth and for your kingdom to fully come and Jesus name a men, I just think I personally have been so impacted by the concept of surrender and letting whatever kingdom I've tried to build in my boys to just burn off and to turn towards God's kingdom and whatever he's doing and that may be watching my kids walk through really hard situations of their choosing or not.
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And allowing him to do the work in their lives for his kingdom to grow for them to be in spaces and places to have conversations about Jesus that they may not be in if they were in this comfortable perfect path that we are told is the way to go.
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So anyway, I hope this episode is encouraging please do check out the show notes and the links and I'll meet you back here next week have a conversation with a gal I just kind of got to know her name is Erica, Gwen and we're just talking about the work of our minds and how we can start believing things that are just not true.
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So we're going to call out a couple of those that moms often believe in replace them with some good truth so join me back here next week thank you all for sharing with any friends on social and tagging me I love seeing it.
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All right, have a good one. Bye.
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I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Don't Mom Alone podcast if you're wanting to connect with more people and more resources to help remind you that you're not alone head over to Don't Mom Alone dot com.
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That's where you'll also find show notes with any links mentioned by our guests most importantly I want you to know the good news the great news that you're not alone because God has promised to always be with you with faith and Jesus Christ the one who died for you and rose again.
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Jesus said when he left he was going to leave a helper a comforter to be with us God in us moms that's super power so while you're washing dishes at your kitchen sink while you're driving to and from work.
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While you're feeding that baby late into the night while you're cleaning sticky floors God promises to be just as present with you as when you're worshiping in a church pew as it says in Zephaniah 3 17 the Lord your God is with you he is mighty to say he takes great delight in you he will quiet you with his love and he will rejoice over you was singing now that's good news have a great day.
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you
Topics Covered
Don't Mom Alone podcast
parenting adult children
Christian counseling
inner healing
restoring connection
addiction recovery
parent-child relationships
healing journey
Kathy Cunningham
supportive membership program
parenting transitions
adult children support
over-involved parenting
financial independence
communication with teens