Stop Wasting Time (and Miles): Points vs. Cash Tools for Easier Booking

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello, this is Matt from the Explorers Podcast.

spk_0 I want to invite you to join me on the voyages and journeys of the most famous explorers in

spk_0 the history of the world.

spk_0 These are the thrilling and captivating stories of Vagelin, Shackleton, Lewis and Clark,

spk_0 and so many other famous and not so famous adventures from throughout history.

spk_0 Go to ExplorersPodcast.com or just look us up on your podcast app.

spk_0 That's the Explorers Podcast.

spk_0 Ever a stare at a flight deal and felt like you needed a PhD in points just to figure out

spk_0 if you should book it?

spk_0 I always have 10,000 tabs open whenever I'm booking with points.

spk_0 I feel you, and today's guest sets out to solve that problem.

spk_0 I am chatting with the founder of a point tool that you need to know about if you are

spk_0 booking with points and miles.

spk_0 Welcome to Smart Travel, a deep dive into the tips, tools and tactics to maximize your

spk_0 travel dollars. I'm Megan Coil, and I'm Sally French.

spk_0 And we're the Travel Nerds Ready to Help You Plan Your Next Big Trip.

spk_0 And if your next trip might be booked on points, you might want to listen to this interview first.

spk_0 Yes, I talk to Julian Kiel, the founder of Points Path.

spk_0 That's a browser extension that takes all that point's math off your plate.

spk_0 But before we get there, our disclaimer, and that's that we'll talk about a few credit card

spk_0 companies that are nerd wallet partners in this episode, but that doesn't influence how we

spk_0 discuss them. The benefits terms and fees mentioned were accurate at the time of posting,

spk_0 but things can change. Some offers may have expired by the time you're listening

spk_0 for the latest details, follow the links in the episode description.

spk_0 I think that's a new record for me, Sally.

spk_0 Oh, speed time. You sound like me.

spk_0 Well, kicking off the news, we have some compelling Merriott credit card limited time offers.

spk_0 The Merriott Bonvoy Ballonless credit card is offering new card holders 125,000 bonus points,

spk_0 plus a free night award valued at up to 50,000 points after spending just $3,000 in the first three

spk_0 months. And don't sleep on the Merriott Bonvoy bold card. That's their zero dollar annual fee

spk_0 card. And the sign up bonus is 60,000 bonus points after spending $1,000 in the first three months.

spk_0 That's a much lower spending threshold for folks who want to dip their toes into the Merriott

spk_0 ecosystem without a huge commitment.

spk_0 Though I will say, I think that boundless offer is so strong that you are looking at potentially

spk_0 175,000 points worth of value. And that could easily cover several nights at some Merriott properties.

spk_0 Oh, yeah. I like that there's a lot of bonus points too. So it's super flexible how you use it.

spk_0 So many options. Now some major news coming out of Europe that travelers absolutely need to know

spk_0 about that new entry and exit system. So starting October 12th, the EU is implementing this automated

spk_0 border control system. It is called EES for US travelers. This means every time you enter

spk_0 participating European countries, you will have your fingerprint scanned and official image taken.

spk_0 And this isn't just when you enter, right, Sally? Right. This actually happens on both entry and

spk_0 exit. So the system will track exactly how long you've been in Europe. And this is largely to

spk_0 enforce that 90 days within any 180 day period rule. That's something for people who are doing quasi

spk_0 short-stay visits, but really want to extend their trips. This really enforces that.

spk_0 And the worst part of all this news, at least for me, is that there are no more passports

spk_0 stamps. It's all digital now. Oh, Megan. Well, as you learned from listening to my wedding vows,

spk_0 I actually lost my passport once. So I have no attachment to passports stamps anyway.

spk_0 I mean, what am I going to do, though, with this like completely empty book? I swear, I travel people.

spk_0 I know a lot of people aren't complaining about that. I will say for starters, they are rolling this

spk_0 out gradually. Full implementation will not be complete until April 20th, 26. So some border

spk_0 crossings might still be using that old system. And travelers give yourself some extra time at

spk_0 these borders, especially during this transition period. The good news is that once you're in the system,

spk_0 and you've already taken those pictures and fingerprints, then it should be faster since your

spk_0 biometric data is already stored. And one very clear thing to note, if you refuse to have your

spk_0 fingerprints taken or your face-speed scanned, you will be denied entry. There are no exceptions to this.

spk_0 So then the only thing you need to do is mentally prepare to hand over your biometric data.

spk_0 Have a practice that smies for the photo. Okay, but seriously, I have read people online saying

spk_0 they don't want to go to Europe anymore because they don't want to hand over their biometric data,

spk_0 so just be aware of what you're in for. I can't imagine skipping Europe because I love going there.

spk_0 So yes, they can have my data. They can have my data too. All right, Megan, let's switch gears to

spk_0 domestic US travel news. Finally, a way to get this free checked bags on spirit. No way. I never

spk_0 thought I'd see the day. I know. Spirit airlines just announced that there are free spirit travel more

spk_0 mastercard. Now includes up to two free checked bags for primary card holders. This is huge if you're

spk_0 a spirit flyer. You are looking at two bags up to 50 pounds each, and you can even check things

spk_0 like golf clubs or skis as long as they meet spirit's requirements. As usual, you do have to book

spk_0 directly with spirit using the card. And also keep in mind that this free checked bag benefit only

spk_0 goes to the card holder unlike some other credit card free checked bag perks. This does not cover

spk_0 other people on the same reservation. And let's be honest, spirit's baggage fees can add up really

spk_0 fast. The card also comes with some other perks that might help you if you fly spirit a lot,

spk_0 things like priority boarding and 25% back on in flight purchases. But we should probably

spk_0 mention that spirit has filed for bankruptcy earlier this year. And so I think there's a lot of

spk_0 uncertainty about what the future of that airline is. They do look to be in trouble. So just

spk_0 stand guard have a backup plan if you still have booked a spirit flight. We will also link to an

spk_0 article on some of the best airline cards in the episode description. That way you can find out

spk_0 how to get free checked bags on not just spirit, but all the other airlines that we cover.

spk_0 Megan, ever since you introduced me to points, Bap, my life has changed. Oh yes, one of my favorite

spk_0 tools for helping people decide whether it's better to spend points or miles. It's a browser

spk_0 extension and one version of it at least is free. I gotta say my anxiety of whether or not I've

spk_0 gotten a good deal on points has been significantly reduced ever since I downloaded it. See, this is

spk_0 why I'm your point skier Roussell. You gotta keep me around. Yes, and I am a fan of both you and of

spk_0 points, Bap. I actually got in touch with the founder of points path that is Julian Keel to bring him

spk_0 on our show. I'm sorry, Megan. I interviewed him without you. I'm jelly. No, it's okay. I forgive you.

spk_0 I can't wait to hear it. If you have ever stared at your screen trying to decide whether to

spk_0 go flight with cash or use points from let's say your MX or chase account or your for good

spk_0 flyer miles, this episode is for you. Today's guest is Julian founder of points path, a browser

spk_0 extension and tool that makes point decision smarter faster and surprisingly beginner-friendly,

spk_0 but do not let this complicity fool you. This is one of the most data-driven nuance tools in

spk_0 the points and models game today. Julian's background combines tech travel. He's built points

spk_0 past surface not just what's available, but whether you should book with points at all,

spk_0 something I think even veteran travelers can overthink. So Julian, welcome to Smart Travel.

spk_0 That is the nicest introduction salad I think I've ever had on any of these shows. Thank you very

spk_0 much. I was really great to be here. Well, I got to say I truly am a fan of points path. There

spk_0 are so many points and miles tools out there and I love many of them, but what I love the most about

spk_0 this tool is it is so simple. A lot of people assume that maybe booking on points is always better

spk_0 or booking on cash might be always better and it's really not and this tool makes it so easy to

spk_0 clarify that for me. That's exactly the problem that everybody has. You just said it. People can't

spk_0 figure out how to find flights to use their miles on and then even when they do, they can't

spk_0 figure out if they're getting a good deal or not. Should they use their points or should they use

spk_0 cash and save the points for later and that is the problem that point path is trying to solve it

spk_0 and trying to solve it in just a few seconds right where you already search. For someone who has

spk_0 never used points path before and has no idea what we're talking about, could you give kind of

spk_0 an explainer of how it all works? Absolutely. So points path is a browser extension. So it's a

spk_0 little different than an app or any piece of software you'd have. It works inside your Safari or

spk_0 Chrome or Microsoft Edge browser. You install it once. You never have to install it again. And then

spk_0 every time you go to Google flights, which is typically the first place most people go when they're

spk_0 looking for flights and you do a standard search. It could be in domestic international. It doesn't

spk_0 matter what airline. Google will of course give you all the different options with the cash

spk_0 prices points path then goes and retrieves the points prices the live data and adds them into

spk_0 those search and then tells you for each flight, which is the better deal. Should you use cash?

spk_0 Should you use miles? Are you getting a good deal with your miles? Is it a great deal? That is

spk_0 what it does. And it does it all automatically. And I always forget to mention this part. It's free.

spk_0 I don't know why I always forget to mention that part, but it is completely free.

spk_0 How do you make money if it's free? First of all, even for our free users, we do have an

spk_0 email newsletter that we also send on a daily basis. And that has offers that you might, you know,

spk_0 click on and if so, we would get a commission. You don't have to do that. You don't even have to

spk_0 have an email newsletter, but it's a service that we provide. And then we do have paid tiers with

spk_0 more advanced features. So for instance, if you want to track a flight and say, hey, let me know when

spk_0 the price on in points on this flight goes up or down. So I can book it at the price I want.

spk_0 We'll track it several times a day and send you an email. That's a paid feature. When you're talking

spk_0 about looking at points outside of the major five US airline programs, ducks in our paid features,

spk_0 a points calendar. So there's a lot of different extra features for more advanced users that might

spk_0 be willing to pay a little bit for them. The free model is so simple. I'd use to use so I even

spk_0 love that one. You kind of you explained how it works for the user. I am curious. How do you pull

spk_0 all this data on the back end? How does it work? Your guys is end. It works the exact same way that

spk_0 it works for you if you're going to search a website, one of these airline websites or using an app.

spk_0 We're just doing the exact same search. We're simply doing it behind the scenes and obviously we

spk_0 can do it faster than if you had to sit there and type it all in and wait for the responses.

spk_0 And we're doing them all at the same time. So where it would take you several minutes to go to

spk_0 American and then go to Delta and then go to United, we can send all those requests at the same time,

spk_0 get all the information back at the same time and display it all at the same time. But essentially,

spk_0 it's the exact same thing that you would do if you were searching yourself.

spk_0 And I got to say, when you said several minutes, I think that's the understatement.

spk_0 I feel like people can spend hours doing this on their own to go to all the airline websites.

spk_0 And they are so slow versus Google flights is always my recommended way to search for flights

spk_0 even with cash prices because it's so much faster. And then you layer on the point path application.

spk_0 And it is so fast in terms of just knowing how much these points cost.

spk_0 And the best part is of course, because some airline sites are slower than others, some are

spk_0 faster. Sometimes we get the data faster from American than we do from Delta. As soon as we get it,

spk_0 we show it to you. We don't wait for them all to show up. And then they stream in as we receive

spk_0 them. So you're giving that information maybe a few seconds at most after Google has given you

spk_0 your cash prices. You're starting to see points prices. And usually you have all of them within

spk_0 I'd say six or seven seconds at most. Now so many of our listeners out there say I cannot find

spk_0 award availability at all. I might have all of these miles for a program. And I don't actually know

spk_0 how to use them because when I search on the program, there is no actual award availability. So we

spk_0 are going to talk about some tips on how to actually book those flights on miles, get the best

spk_0 productions. That is up next after this.

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spk_0 listening. We are back with Julian Keel, founder of Point's Path. It is time to talk strategy.

spk_0 Now, a lot of people have these airline miles that they're sitting on and they can't actually

spk_0 find any award availability. It'll say all these seats are available on the flight, but you can only

spk_0 book them with cash, not with points. What do you do in that situation? It's actually better than it

spk_0 used to be, even though it can still be challenging because in the old days when most airlines

spk_0 operated programs based on award charts, they would be very stingy about releasing seats because

spk_0 they could only release them at set prices. Now, most US airline programs operate on what we call a

spk_0 dynamic pricing basis, meaning that they can change the points price up or down along with the

spk_0 cash prices. Now, to be clear, they don't usually do that in tandem. Sometimes there can be a

spk_0 difference and that's when you can get really great value. But when it comes to actually finding

spk_0 flights with points, this is where Point's Path comes in handy. There are also other tools that

spk_0 can be very useful, but really it does come down to how can I find them very quickly. Also, a lot of

spk_0 people complain they say, well, I'm getting an offer on American site for a flight with miles,

spk_0 but it's a terrible flight. It's got some overnight connection in Chicago, whatever it might be,

spk_0 with Point's Path, because it's happening right in Google flights, you can use all the usual

spk_0 Google flights, filters and sorts to say, I only want to see nonstop flights. I only want to see

spk_0 flights that are no longer than this duration. I want to sort by duration or the earliest departure

spk_0 or earliest arrival, all those filters are still there for you. So it really does then show you,

spk_0 the flight you would actually want to take and get rid of the rest. The other advantage of Point's

spk_0 Path is that it takes it to account those partner redemptions. And this is where when you talk

spk_0 about strategy, partner redemptions are so important. What we mean by partners is saying, okay,

spk_0 well, American and Alaska are both part of the same alliance, the one world alliance. So when

spk_0 can I get it on with American miles, I can also get it with Alaska miles or vice versa.

spk_0 And sometimes I can get with fewer Alaska miles than I can with American miles or vice versa.

spk_0 You might say, well, I don't have Alaska miles, but maybe you have a built rewards card that can

spk_0 transfer points to Alaska, or you don't have American miles, you might have a city thank you card

spk_0 that can transfer the points to American. So Point's Path and Tools like it give you those opportunities

spk_0 to say, oh my gosh, I can get a better deal with the points I already have. I just need to maybe

spk_0 move them around a little bit to get the flight I want. It really is so complicated and quite

spk_0 this shuffle. I'm actually going to Europe this fall and we are flying into Turkey on Turkish

spk_0 Airlines, but we booked it using Avionglaive miles. And then I actually don't have any Avionglaive

spk_0 miles. I had to transfer them from the capital one card. So it's like this giant dance, it's this

spk_0 giant shuffle and it can be really confusing to people. It can. And one of the things that we have

spk_0 right even in the free points path extension, you don't need to pay for this is on any flight that

spk_0 shows a points amount. You can click on the small little eye icon under that points amount and get

spk_0 all the transfer partners. So I can see, oh, okay, I can transfer American Express points to Delta.

spk_0 Or like you said, I can transfer, you know, from a variety of programs to say Virgin Atlantic.

spk_0 It's all right in there. Literally, all you have to do is click on the little eye and you'll

spk_0 get all that information. You'll even get sometimes as you may know, a bank might run a transfer

spk_0 bonus for a limited time, right? As of this moment right now, capital one has a transfer bonus to

spk_0 Virgin Atlantic. That will also show up in points path when you click that little eye. It'll

spk_0 tell you, hey, there's a transfer bonus in effect so you could actually save points right now.

spk_0 I am curious to hear from you other points and miles tools that you love because, you know,

spk_0 we're not necessarily all competitors. So many people do complimentary things with their

spk_0 services. So are there any other great points tools that you like? Oh my god, there's so many

spk_0 great points tools. I like to say this is the golden age of travel tools, right? Because not

spk_0 another great points tools. There's great flight tools. There's great travel tools. One of the

spk_0 sites that I always go to is a ward wall where you can actually track all your points balances.

spk_0 So if you have a certain amount in American, a lot of people are like, I can never remember

spk_0 how many points I have anywhere where they're going to expire and all of that. A ward wall can

spk_0 track all that information for you. Point me is one of the big sites that people go to for

spk_0 award search tools. They run on their own platform. So that's an advantage or an disadvantage,

spk_0 depending, you have to remember to go there, but they cover a lot of different programs and give you

spk_0 a lot of options that way. A third popular one that I use myself sometimes is seats. arrow.

spk_0 Seats. arrow is really focused heavily on on partner redemptions and international

spk_0 item arrays. You know, I always like to say about all my competitors. I think they're great and I

spk_0 use them myself because it's all about the right tool for the right job. I think a lot of those

spk_0 folks are a little more for intermediate to advanced users. You kind of have to know what you're

spk_0 doing before you get in there where points path is really aimed more for beginner and somebody who

spk_0 doesn't necessarily want to become a points expert just wants to know the answer. Should I use my

spk_0 points or should I pay cash? I speak to so many people who say I have 300,000 chase points

spk_0 or something wild and they're like, I've just been saving them. What should I spend them on?

spk_0 And I say you need to download points path. And if you ever have a flight that you're booking,

spk_0 whether it's for a wedding, your family vacation, whatever it is, if points path says the price to

spk_0 book and points is cheaper, do not sit on those 300,000 chase points. It is never worth sitting

spk_0 on them any points because I know ball that we say that points lose their value. We're all very

spk_0 familiar with real inflation out there in the real world. I think points inflation can sometimes

spk_0 be worse. So I always recommend spending those points down and points path makes it possible to

spk_0 know at least you are getting a good redemption when you spend them down. You're 100% right about

spk_0 that salary because earn and burn is the saying when it comes to points, they do not become more

spk_0 valuable over time. They only become less valuable just like a dollar, right? The same is true of

spk_0 today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. I always tell people if they say, oh, I'm saving them

spk_0 for retirement or whatever, don't do that. I think you should be trying to burn through all of your

spk_0 existing points within a few years, two or three years at most and be earning more of course, right?

spk_0 The beauty of that is with credit card offers today and all the options, all the ways to earn points,

spk_0 you'll earn more. Use your points while they still have value. They will not have more value down the

spk_0 line. Let's talk about what's coming down the line. Airlines keep devaluing their miles.

spk_0 Banks keep raising the angel fees on their credit cards. We have many examples of that this year.

spk_0 Where do you think the industry is headed in the next three to five years?

spk_0 The advent of or really almost you could say the amazing amount of premium credit cards that have

spk_0 hit the market in the last few years, it's both terrific and one of those things where you say,

spk_0 well, I can't possibly spend all this money on all these credit cards, nor should you. But the

spk_0 perks that are available are really, in some cases, outstanding. The new Alaska card that just came

spk_0 out is really a fascinating product because it is at that sort of $395 and you'll see that maybe a

spk_0 few years ago would have been like, wow, that's a lot of money, but today that's not even that much.

spk_0 One of the more affordable ones. Yeah, that's one of the more affordable expensive cards. It's still

spk_0 an expensive card. I always tell people, listen, because they say that's a lot of money. You say, well,

spk_0 if you're not going to use the perks of the card, it is. But if you are, if you can look at those

spk_0 perks and say, hey, I can absolutely take advantage of say this $200 travel credit or this $300

spk_0 or whatever it might be and make the value worth it, then it's worth getting. You don't want to have

spk_0 so many of them that you can't use all the perks. But if you find the card that fits your lifestyle

spk_0 and the way you travel, it can absolutely be worth paying for. I do often hear especially

spk_0 this year where we've seen so many cards raise their annual fees into the close to a $1,000

spk_0 territory. A lot of people say this points game is getting more elitist and the people who can

spk_0 afford $1,000 in annual fees are getting these better perks. And then meanwhile, we have these

spk_0 airlines like Spirit that are falling apart. And I'm curious how you see the industry go

spk_0 aid and you know, to tie it back to points path. How does points path make this more accessible?

spk_0 The advent of these cards and the way they keep raising the fees, I think are all part and parcel

spk_0 with how the travel industry has evolved since the pandemic. People are looking for premium

spk_0 experiences and they are willing to pay for them. The airlines that are doing well, Delta and

spk_0 United are the ones that are offering the most business class seats, the most international

spk_0 destinations while those like Spirit and Southwest are having more difficulty because they lack

spk_0 those features. I think the exact same thing is true of credit cards. The reason we're seeing all

spk_0 these premium cards and actually seeing them raise their fees but add more perks is that people

spk_0 want to have a premium experience. And that's what these cards are trying to provide, offering a

spk_0 premium experience that you might not be able to get another way. So to answer your question,

spk_0 I don't see this changing anytime soon. I think it is just a matter of time before we see the first

spk_0 widely available $1,000 annual fee card. I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow, but I would be

spk_0 surprised if it doesn't happen in the next three to four years. I think as long as people are asking

spk_0 for those premium experiences and willing to pay for them, the issuers are simply going to keep

spk_0 providing with the market wants. And some of those cards can pay off for those power users, those

spk_0 power travelers. Now let's talk a little bit more about power travelers. Are there any common

spk_0 traps that you see these points pros fall for? Yeah, what I do see actually points pros in particular

spk_0 do is get so obsessed with the value of their miles that they're willing to do an inconvenient

spk_0 trip. They're willing to say, Oh, I'll do this to stop 29 hour itinerary because I'm getting so

spk_0 much more value for my miles. Sure, that's probably true. But what's the value of your time? What's

spk_0 the value of your comfort? You do have to remember everything is a balance and it's okay to get a

spk_0 little less value for your points if it means a more efficient trip. Now with that said, if you're

spk_0 looking at a trip where the cash deal is just so much better than the miles deal, don't use your

spk_0 miles. Pay the cash, save your miles for a better opportunity. There's definitely a balance that

spk_0 you'll find in there. And there's still a lot of opportunities out there to use your miles effectively.

spk_0 When you're searching on these websites, NURBOLA does this every year where we search award

spk_0 availability by hand to actually find out what these miles are worth. And some of these websites are

spk_0 awful to use. If I get a signed to sort of website like Southwestern United, I'm like, oh,

spk_0 this is so easy to navigate. And then some I get assigned this horrible airline program. Do you

spk_0 find on your end that there are any airline programs that are particularly challenging to

spk_0 integrate just because maybe their award logic is so unpredictable? So we do, of course, definitely

spk_0 have our challenges as far as integrating airline programs. They're actually, though, usually

spk_0 different because we're not necessarily dealing with all of that front end interface, right? We're

spk_0 able to go behind it and bypass it. And that's also what partially makes points paths so fast

spk_0 is that we're able to do away with all that. It is interesting how a really good user interface

spk_0 does make a huge difference when it comes to trying to find award availability. And the airlines that

spk_0 have taken the time to do a good job with that, I think, do have an advantage with that all said

spk_0 when you're using your points, using one of these aggregation tools, whether it's points,

spk_0 path or one of the others, is going to be the fastest way of finding what you want. Because it's

spk_0 going to show you all the options and maybe some that you haven't even thought of all at one time.

spk_0 All right. Well, I think I want to move along to some rapid fire questions about you. Are you ready?

spk_0 I got my hand on the button. I'm ready to get it. Okay. Do you have a favorite underrated transfer

spk_0 partner right now? I love Alaska. I'll tell you I am always. Yes, I haven't even got my

spk_0 at most card yet, but I'm always shocked at how much value I can get for Alaska miles. Hopefully

spk_0 they've just changed over to the Atmos program. And I think we're going to continue to see that

spk_0 kind of value at least for the foreseeable future. But don't sleep on Alaska miles. There's some

spk_0 really amazing values there. Any particularly great redemption you've made and maybe it was on Alaska?

spk_0 Well, it was with Alaska miles, but not necessarily on Alaska. That's where the beauty of it, right?

spk_0 Alaska currently has a partnership with an airline called Condor that flies in and out of Germany,

spk_0 a German carrier. But what they have available is a transatlantic business class seat that Alaska

spk_0 often has available for just 45,000 miles each direction. That's a fantastic way to get in and out

spk_0 of Europe. And once you're in Europe, it's easy to jump a very quick cheap flight to anywhere you

spk_0 want on the continent and in a very, very nice business class seat. We've actually talked about that

spk_0 on the show. I have not flown Condor myself, but I've seen their planes. The striped, I they look

spk_0 like socks. They did or candy cans. Yes. Candy cans. That's oh, Julian, that's so much nicer than

spk_0 socks. All right. So are you going to consider applying for that new Atmos card? You know, it's

spk_0 funny. I did right before I came on the show. I got approved. All right. Real fan. Let's say that you

spk_0 had 100,000 points on any program you want. What would that program be? And how would you spend them?

spk_0 That's a really good question. You know, Chase ultimate rewards is still a really strong program.

spk_0 We've seen a lot of in the last 10 years programs like Capital One and City vastly improve what they

spk_0 offer. But Chase still has their finger on the pulse of what people want. With that said, I do

spk_0 think built. If I had to choose a program that for 100,000 points, it'd be built rewards simply

spk_0 because they are doing some really innovative things in the travel space. Not only do they have

spk_0 some a mix of partners that you won't see anywhere else, you know, united and high at both in the

spk_0 same program, but just what they're doing as far as rent day bonuses, their new travel portal.

spk_0 It's just unlike any other company in the world. They're truly innovating in the travel space.

spk_0 So if I had to pick one program, it'd probably be built. Interesting. Are you a renter?

spk_0 I am not a renter. Wow. And you still say built. I know. And that's what people, it's interesting

spk_0 because people do think, oh, built has credit card that you can earn points on rent. And I do have

spk_0 that card. You can earn built points not only with that card, built now has a way where you can

spk_0 earn points without having any of their cards. You can use your own credit or debit card to earn

spk_0 bill points. It's a program called built neighborhood benefits. You simply sign up for it. It's

spk_0 totally free. You can put all of your credit and even debit cards in it. And when you shop at

spk_0 built partners, which can include wall greens, which can include lift, which can include all

spk_0 sorts of restaurants around the country, you get extra built points on top of whatever you're

spk_0 earning with your credit card. So it's literally stacking extra rewards for free. It's a great

spk_0 way to earn some extra points for no cost at all. Wow. You know, Julian might have sold me on built.

spk_0 I am also I'm not a renter and Megan, my podcast host, loves built, but she's a renter. So I've

spk_0 always written it off because I don't want to just have another program to mess around with.

spk_0 But if you're saying it's the best and you also are not a renter, maybe I got to think about built.

spk_0 There's a lot of good opportunity with built and they are, I believe they keep saying they are

spk_0 coming up with mortgages. I think we'll see it sooner rather than later. So if you're a homeowner

spk_0 and you're looking to pay a mortgage, that will eventually, I think, be a good way to earn lots of

spk_0 built points. I am changed. This this went on longer than rapid fire, but that's okay because I

spk_0 learned something. Sorry. Okay. I have too much to say. I love it. Okay. What's the top training

spk_0 destination you're predicting for 2026? It's funny. We are seeing actually because we in our data,

spk_0 we see a lot of search trends. Hawaii is very popular here coming into the holidays. Also Caribbean

spk_0 destinations have ticked up a bit. Seeing less interest to places like Spain, prices to going to

spk_0 Barcelona, Madrid are down year over year. So if you're looking for a cheap vacation,

spk_0 that could be a good choice. If you're looking for a popular destination, head to the Hawaiian islands.

spk_0 I do love Hawaii. All right. Final rapid fire. One award travel myth that you think needs to die.

spk_0 You know what? I'm actually going to take that to broadly travel, which is that there is no

spk_0 specific day of the week that will get you a better deal, either with points or dollars

spk_0 for buying your ticket. Now with that said, there are days of the week that you can travel that will

spk_0 be cheaper. Traveling on a Tuesday or Wednesday, you are probably going to pay less than you will

spk_0 if you're traveling on a Friday or Sunday. And that's just because of demand. Business travelers are

spk_0 trying to get home on Fridays and back out on the road on Sundays. So those are higher demand days.

spk_0 They cost more travel midweek and you'll pay less. But booking your ticket doesn't matter.

spk_0 Airfare's changed by the minute, by the second. Sometimes it doesn't matter what day you book.

spk_0 You better off monitoring fares with Google flights, with points, past, set alerts, and just

spk_0 pounds when the price is right. I guess being exacting my friends who will still say something like,

spk_0 I need to stamp until midnight on Sunday to book my flight because I heard that's the cheapest time

spk_0 to book. I'm like, I'm asleep on midnight and I'm on Sunday. Maybe if you went back 40 years,

spk_0 that would be true. But it's not true today. Do you think that logic still applies to points? I know

spk_0 a lot of people say point availability will drop a certain number of days or months out.

spk_0 The one thing to keep in mind with points availability, there's usually two places where you're

spk_0 going to find the best deals you're not guaranteed to. One is when the schedule very first opens,

spk_0 which is usually roughly about 330, 360 days out from departure. Then the very last minute.

spk_0 That simply again comes down to supply and demand. If an airline sees that there are seats on a flight

spk_0 that are empty, that are going to go out on-sold, and those seats are then lost forever,

spk_0 you can't recapture them. They're more likely to make them more available with fewer points,

spk_0 or with points on a partner level, whatever it might be. Last minute can also be a really good

spk_0 time to snag a great point's deal. That's so funny. You say that because I often always say,

spk_0 you cannot find last minute cash deals, but last minute point's deals is totally different.

spk_0 It is because the last minute cash deals go up because of business travelers who have to travel

spk_0 on a specific day and whose companies are paying for it anyway, so they don't really care. But

spk_0 companies don't book business travel with points, so points tends to move the opposite direction.

spk_0 Great tips. This is Julian Keel, creator of Points Pat. Julian, thanks so much for joining us.

spk_0 Thanks so much, Sally.

spk_0 You know, our producer Tess just said she's downloading Points Pat right now as we speak.

spk_0 We've created so many new converts. And no, Points Pat did not pay us or anything to even be on this

spk_0 show. This truly is just one of our favorite travel tools. It is one of those tools that has great

spk_0 functionality even if you just use a free version, and I will say I only use their free version.

spk_0 Maybe we'll have to splurge for the upgraded one. Someone make a room in that smart travel budget.

spk_0 Speaking of smart travel budget listeners, please help us grow.

spk_0 I see what you did there. That is great. Okay. But yes, if you did not already,

spk_0 subscribe to follow smart travel on your favorite podcast app, including Spotify, Apple podcasts,

spk_0 and I heart radio. That way you automatically download new episodes.

spk_0 And if you do subscribe already, take it one step further and leave us a comment and a five-star

spk_0 rating. Five stars would definitely be great, but we do also appreciate your honest opinions.

spk_0 And if you love this show, tell a friend, maybe you have someone who needs to know about Points Pat.

spk_0 Let's also give some credit to the people who really make this happen. We could not talk on these

spk_0 mics without them. Yes, big thank you to our producers, Tess Viglin and Hilary Georgi,

spk_0 Claire Soci, helped with fact checking and Nick Hrismy mixes our audio.

spk_0 And of course, that sclaimer, we are not financial or investment advisors.

spk_0 This information is offered only for general educational and entertainment purposes.

spk_0 We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even fuller.

spk_0 Thanks everyone. We'll see you next week.

spk_0 Today's episode is supported by the Zero to Travel Podcast.

spk_0 If you want to listen to another amazing travel podcast, you have to check out the Zero to Travel

spk_0 Podcast hosted by our friend Jason Moore. With over 12 million downloads,

spk_0 Jason always pulls the best travel and life lessons from his guests, whether it is travel legends,

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spk_0 to help you add more travel into your life and so much more. With over 800 five-star reviews and

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Stop Wasting Time (and Miles): Points vs. Cash Tools for Easier Booking

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