Season 3, Episode 5: A Lifetime of Being a Scholar

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 So before we jump into today's episode, it's important that we acknowledge that this conversation was recorded on the land of the Tongva and Jumash peoples.

spk_0 Panelists joined us from colonized lands throughout North America.

spk_0 We recognize the Tongva, Jumash, and all indigenous nations, tribes, and peoples for being historical and continual caretakers of these lands.

spk_0 This episode features conversations with senior scholars.

spk_0 We want to acknowledge and dedicate this episode to a senior scholar who we sadly lost this year.

spk_0 In addition to being a renowned scholar, Dr. Caroline Turner served as chair of Ash's Council for Ethnic Participation and as Ash President.

spk_0 She was a mentor to many in the field and a friend to even more.

spk_0 While Dr. Turner is no longer with us, her legacy lives on through her students, friends, and colleagues.

spk_0 This episode is dedicated to her.

spk_0 Three, two, one.

spk_0 Greetings, Ash family, and welcome back to another episode of the Ash President's True Podcast season three.

spk_0 And this is our final episode of the season where we've been engaging in conversations throughout the season about what it means to be a scholar.

spk_0 I'm your co-host, Dr. Royal Johnson, associate professor of higher education and social work at the University of Southern California.

spk_0 And I also direct the National Assessment of Collegiate Campus Climates and shout out to the Rossier School of Education and my Dean Pedro Negraira for being a sponsor this year.

spk_0 I have the privilege of working with my friend, Dr. Felicia Commodore.

spk_0 Hello, family. I'm your other co-host, Dr. Felicia Commodore, associate professor at the University of Illinois, our Bonnish, Japan.

spk_0 We're excited to keep our conversation going as we discuss this year's theme.

spk_0 I am a scholar. And so by this time, we're really good friends.

spk_0 We've been in your house and your car and all of those things.

spk_0 And so hopefully you are as excited as we are for this final episode of this year's podcast series.

spk_0 So we started this season with Ash President, Dr. Ginny Hart.

spk_0 And we got to hear a little bit about her goals for this year's theme.

spk_0 We talked with early career scholars preparing to enter the field, as well as others who have taken on new and exciting roles both inside and outside of the academy.

spk_0 We've also wrestled with the complexities of scholarly identity, the tensions, the possibilities, and the need for more expansive understandings of what it means to be a scholar who gets included in that.

spk_0 But in this episode, we're going to close out the season with two very special people to us, two people who are special to our field, whose presence, wisdom, and role modeling have shaped several generations, including our own.

spk_0 And we'll talk about the evolution of their scholarly identities over time and how they sustain their passion for the work.

spk_0 Yeah, we're really excited about these two guests that almost don't want to share you with share them with you all.

spk_0 But they've been really important to us as we're y'all said, but also very, very important to the field and how many of us have thought about being scholars, how we move through the field, how we think about ourselves.

spk_0 And so we're just really, really excited to have an opportunity to be in conversation with them today.

spk_0 So join us in welcoming our guest, Dr. Sharon Friesbert, Professor of Higher Education at the University of Maryland College Park, and Dr. James Earl Davis, Professor and the Menarsie Watson, Endowed Chair, and Urban Education at Temple University.

spk_0 Welcome.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 You're so excited.

spk_0

spk_0 I feel a lot of pressure.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 No pressure at all.

spk_0 I mean, when we were conceptualizing this episode, I mean, it was an easy, it was an easy choice for who we wanted to be in conversation with to be investing to lay in this plane.

spk_0 So we kick off all of our episodes with an icebreaker last season we did this or that.

spk_0 We're going to switch it up a little bit.

spk_0 So we have another fun activity that we're now calling questions that need answers.

spk_0 So it's a quick way to get to know you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Please, you want to kick it off?

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 So Sharon, this is for you, and I'm going to appreciate this question.

spk_0 What flavor of tea represents you today?

spk_0 I want Dr. Commodore.

spk_0 I love you.

spk_0 I've been so nervous about this.

spk_0 This is it.

spk_0 I feel so uncool.

spk_0 Thank you for that question.

spk_0 You know, I like my tea.

spk_0 I like coffee.

spk_0 You know, I'm looking out at this beautiful Maryland ball foliage and gorgeous day.

spk_0 And the flavor tea that actually represents me today is very classic.

spk_0 I like a nice smooth green tea because it sort of just runs through my body with nutrients and just makes me feel organically healthy.

spk_0 So that's the flavor tea that is representing me today.

spk_0 And I feel very much like what I see out the window bright, cool.

spk_0 So it feels good.

spk_0 I love it.

spk_0 Thank you for starting me off with that.

spk_0 I love it.

spk_0 I knew I said this.

spk_0 I didn't wear this wreck on some type of a number of stars name.

spk_0 I didn't know how they connected the mother's heart.

spk_0 I knew that question was for you when I thought it.

spk_0 So here's one for you, James.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 If you could travel time, would you travel to the past or to the future?

spk_0 And why?

spk_0 Great question.

spk_0 I'm a risk adverse.

spk_0 So I'm not going to the future.

spk_0 I may see something.

spk_0 I know.

spk_0 I'm going to go to the I'm going to go to the past.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Not far past, but immediate past.

spk_0 The 70.

spk_0 The 70s represented kind of an edginess and kind of a push forward ideologically fashion-wise,

spk_0 music-wise, and the culture generally.

spk_0 So because we sing tone and sort of tenor of the 70s now, I particularly sort of fashion music.

spk_0 And I have a, I was around.

spk_0 I want to be like a real, a real adult.

spk_0 In the 70s.

spk_0 And I've seen myself as a kind of a poet.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 At some jazz cafe.

spk_0 Oh, wow.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 My mom always told me if I was alive in the 70s, I would make it because I'm not risk adverse.

spk_0 Well, you know what, Dr. Davis, you know, I love you to death.

spk_0 And I'm listening to your answer on that and thinking, I love the 70s because I get to

spk_0 still wear my after.

spk_0 I was so confused because I'm like, I want to send high school.

spk_0 Oh, I'm still in high.

spk_0 And I know child, you're a little bit different.

spk_0 I'm with you on that.

spk_0 It's in style.

spk_0 In the context, the after in the 70s was like pushing really pushing.

spk_0

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 It's a more comfortableness.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0

spk_0 I feel like I would travel to the past too.

spk_0 I mean, you ever think about like moments where you just feel like I wish I would have

spk_0 sat in that moment a bit longer.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 I wish I would have been more present in that moment.

spk_0

spk_0 And then as time sort of fades and you get older, you remember.

spk_0 You have memories, but you don't really experience the full range of that memory.

spk_0 And so there are parts of details that I miss.

spk_0 So I wish I could go back in time and I would only go to the past to tell myself to not eat chicken

spk_0 when at three in the morning in college.

spk_0 It just didn't work out well in the long run.

spk_0 So just make a few different decisions.

spk_0 And I did then.

spk_0

spk_0 So we have another question for you, Sharon.

spk_0 What's one recent thing or experience that exceeded your expectations?

spk_0 Oh, wow.

spk_0 That's an amazing question.

spk_0 You know what?

spk_0 It's actually an easy answer.

spk_0 What I've come to, it's a common, it's a season, an extent of experiences.

spk_0 What was, and they exceeded my experience.

spk_0 And I shared this actually in a similar sort of an event as I was working with colleagues who are doing the,

spk_0 the, it's not, I'm not going to get the title right, but Candace and Charles Davis.

spk_0 Oh, imagining futures.

spk_0 Imagining futures.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I had this sort of epiphany we were in the office with Dean Griffin.

spk_0 To Kea Robinson and myself.

spk_0 What has exceeded my expectation was I never thought the decades of working with former students and colleagues would turn into this amazing kind of

spk_0 bidirectional ways in which I am inspired by them beyond my imagination, what they're doing of how I'm mentored by them in ways of, I feel this degree of,

spk_0 I'm going to use the word security that if I need to know something, I got this network, all of you are, I'm, it extends out to like that exceeded you could have never convinced me because I wasn't doing it for that like it wasn't in these

spk_0 relationships, but that succeeded my expectation of the way I feel about the connections there.

spk_0 So with no, no need to feel like I got to ask for anything.

spk_0 It's just that we want, there was a moment we shared that was just, they said to me something that we shared a lot of tears.

spk_0 It was totally unexpected and I was talking about we were talking about our different journeys and the academy.

spk_0 And I was sharing something and to the kids said, you know, we got your back and it was just the word of we got to back and I never felt like like so that that there's a season at this time in my career that is exceed my expectation of what the academy would feel like, be like and actually James, you and I were having a little bit of this conversation when we were working on our chapter.

spk_0 It's gotten even better since then and it's a sense of feeling comfortable in that I belong because I certainly didn't feel that way when I started and even certainly not in the connection to ash.

spk_0 So I hope that makes sense, but that's genuinely something that has exceeded my expectation and as a professional connection to ash and the field.

spk_0 And Sharon, we do have your back because you always have our back and so I know, but you know, just so you don't expect anyone to say we got your back.

spk_0 Like I don't know, I'm better at being the fighter for people is it's a receiving season.

spk_0 That's that's actually what I feel the spirit is leading me to say I have a hard time receiving.

spk_0 I'm really good at, you know, I'll I'm out there. I'll take but yeah, this is an unacceded my expectation of receiving just the love and the pouring and the support.

spk_0 Wow, it's amazing. I never thought I'd feel this good at this stage and as it relates to my professional connection, it's beyond professional.

spk_0 It's very familiar, very deep. You know, that's interesting because I had a friend tell me don't deny me the opportunity to support you.

spk_0 You support me. Yes, yes.

spk_0 Oftentimes as the strong friend as the strong person who is used to battling and standing up.

spk_0 Yeah, we don't open ourselves up to be supportive by others, right?

spk_0 And someone broke it down real simple. Like don't deny me that opportunity. It is not a burden. It is a responsibility.

spk_0 Yes, yes. It's a joy is what somebody has said to me like and I understand that because I got that joy.

spk_0 I feel like that's that's mine. That's wonderful.

spk_0 But you you made me think about kind of the effects of our generation where the expectations of people giving and receiving is just different.

spk_0 So I think now we have and we'll talk something more about this and and how the feel how the profession has changed.

spk_0 But there was an expectation that people will be there were differential expectations about people's things, people's generosity.

spk_0 So it represents a shift for me in how I received right the support of others because traditionally it wasn't expected.

spk_0 So you don't expect people to be helpful. You don't expect people to be the generous.

spk_0 In this kind of work. I came through but it's a different season and I'm appreciative and I love your your comments or reflections about that.

spk_0 You're right.

spk_0 I just tag. I don't know if I said you know how many times I said it's so one of the threats for me is whenever you and I are together you James, you know how I feel because James was my light.

spk_0 I'm going to come into my very first as like truly and what you just said helps me just makes me want to say this because this was at like CEP events different events at ash with lots of folks who call lots of us black folks in particular.

spk_0 And not everybody was behaving in the same way.

spk_0 I get it.

spk_0 You know there's a handful of people who sort of did that consistently my first year and you know I said it so many times I had to get a James Davis hook.

spk_0 That was my annual thing every if ever I'm like where's Dr. where's James Davis I get ash doesn't start until I get that.

spk_0 And he knows I've said that every year.

spk_0 And the thing is so many people has that have that experience.

spk_0

spk_0 Yes, yes. So anyway, I'm sorry I had to just so that's the kind of spirit I feel now full closure at the end is just a it's a delightful.

spk_0 Okay, last question James.

spk_0 If you could live in any fictional universe from books movies or TV which one would you choose?

spk_0 A fictional universe.

spk_0 I'm thinking about Atlantis.

spk_0 Oh, yes.

spk_0 Because it always Atlantis represents possibilities always.

spk_0 And and and and hidden possibility.

spk_0 So on the universe the world of Atlantis existed sort of beyond world or underneath.

spk_0 People you don't you didn't know that I think that that invisibility provides sort of incentive to be different to be edgy to be authentic into into push.

spk_0 Push all things that we think are traditional conventional because that's why all they are so all the interesting excitement particularly scholarship happens on the margin.

spk_0 Even though we're training develop I know our generations that you have to be at the center.

spk_0 But you would you become famous and known at the margins.

spk_0 So make your potential contribution to push and innovate our thoughts about our conceptions and push in empirically as well.

spk_0 So I think of I think of Atlantis and I think of being kind of.

spk_0 So Godly in some way sort of how I'm relatively small so always always I like to say spelled James your spell.

spk_0 So anytime I can think about being being more sort of muscular, aggressive taller.

spk_0 Always lead always lean into that Robin D G Kelly sort of once reminded wrote it essay that he.

spk_0 He sort of he dreamed of being kind of a minister black man.

spk_0 So people would stay away from him.

spk_0 And he has a.

spk_0 Or he's right. That's right. So maybe I think that Atlantis provides kind of an opportunity for me to.

spk_0 To be beyond myself.

spk_0 That doesn't mean that I'm not kind of comfortable and what who I am.

spk_0 But I always think about.

spk_0 Being something else.

spk_0 Other spaces making all the kinds of contributions having all the kinds of relationships being other companies.

spk_0 So Atlantis.

spk_0 That too. And I think about water too.

spk_0 So I mean like thought of Atlanta.

spk_0 Islay brothers voice.

spk_0 Thought of the Islay brothers.

spk_0 I've got to play that right now.

spk_0 What you know about that.

spk_0 I own the vinyl.

spk_0 So you know.

spk_0 Yes. Yes. For sure.

spk_0 I think that was a really great way to get to know a little bit more about you both.

spk_0 And so we're going to move into our conversation for today.

spk_0 And we wanted to start off by if you could both tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.

spk_0 And how your scholarly identity has evolved over time.

spk_0 You want me to go first? You want to go first?

spk_0 James.

spk_0 When did you go?

spk_0 So wow.

spk_0 So who I am.

spk_0 What my scholarship promotes and how it's evolved over the years.

spk_0 So you know, it's interesting because all three of you heard this before.

spk_0 But being identified as a scholar was not how I started like a scholarly journey.

spk_0 I came out of administration.

spk_0 I was extremely naive of what it meant to be on a 10 year track.

spk_0 I mean, I had a general idea.

spk_0 My pathway into that was I want to also acknowledge was an incredible opportunity that was distinct and unique to be able to do that at an institution I was already working at, which was part of the calculus for me.

spk_0 I was not willing to go to anywhere and do this.

spk_0 Take this risk.

spk_0 And so I spent the time and had the opportunity through the current faculty that I just finished my PhD with at the University of Maryland to take on this opportunity to go on a 10 year track.

spk_0 So I came into it really very naive with very much an administrative mindset.

spk_0 But on the one hand, that was a good thing because I felt like I had a sense of competency.

spk_0 So I knew how to navigate academic sort of milieu, but not on this side.

spk_0 Over time, because I had done my dissertation on the Meyerhoff Scholars, I was very interested in high achieving this sort of positioning black intellectual sense of understanding of students diversity black students from the notion of not a deficit perspective, but high achieving.

spk_0 And so when I started on that path, again, not sure where it would take me.

spk_0 I knew I was committed to that line of thinking and doing the work.

spk_0 So my identity was a slow evolution because I think I focused more on the parts that were easier and I felt more comfortable with which was my research.

spk_0 I mean, I'm sorry, my teaching and service. I was overly involved in service.

spk_0 But what helped to pivot me eventually was actually having to deal with the reality of life.

spk_0 As you all, I think probably know, I gave birth through my daughter in my second, going into my second, third year, and she needed a transplant and I was the organ donor.

spk_0 And it kind of put my scholarship in a perspective of you can only do so much.

spk_0 So do what you can do and try to do it well and make the case of a consistent line that you're trying to do.

spk_0 And so I often say to people, life itself made me think about the academy in very realistic ways.

spk_0 So I actually kind of missed the pressure of public or a publisher Paris because I was keeping my daughter alive.

spk_0 It was shoe parish. And so that meant more to me.

spk_0 And so once I got through that and was able to make a case for why my publication schedule looked different.

spk_0 But I had done some depth. I did the depth versus the breath.

spk_0 And I began to come out of that feeling very connected to wanting to stay with a very clear building out a clear line of work over time.

spk_0 I was not rushing. I was not trying to. I didn't feel the sense of urgency that a lot of people, because of the larger life kind of sense.

spk_0 So my identity did not come early. Even when I was 10 years, I still didn't identify as a scholar.

spk_0 I would meet people to ask and they go, oh, Dr. Frist, but I read your article. I said, which one of the, and I named the number five.

spk_0 I'm like, I'm just a five. Like you didn't read a lot.

spk_0 But I was okay with that because I was understanding my life.

spk_0 My identity didn't start to really get more solidified until well into my associate.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 Days.

spk_0 It really took a while. And it took a while because I had to start to.

spk_0 I was in the STEM environment, really not as intentional as a lot of people have gone into it.

spk_0 It was because that was my, my opportunity to work with the National Association of Black Physicists when they reached out to me too long of a story to share here.

spk_0 But I did a 10 year STEM with them. And it was in that decade.

spk_0 And that was well into my associate years that I started seeing the meaning of my work in a discipline and in other ways.

spk_0 And I, and was getting feedback from the physicists, both the students and the faculty, particularly faculty of color.

spk_0 And that's when I started understanding. And so it wasn't through ash in the traditional way initially.

spk_0 It was, it happened in some of those ways, but it was really because I was outside of ash and saw a meaning of me and my work.

spk_0 And so that, that made all the difference. And it built from there. And, and to this day, that's how I see how I've had a more meaningful.

spk_0 And I love what James, you said about the margins. I was on the margins. Like on the margins to the point where I never thought my stuff would actually be meaningful.

spk_0 It was like, okay, I'm 10 year. I can hang out here for a long time.

spk_0 I can solve them. I don't care if they ever promote me. I wasn't even trying to become a professor.

spk_0 When Dr. Cabrera and Alberto said, you need to go up. I said, why? So you can have more work for me.

spk_0 Like I argued with him forever on that. He was like, no, it's because they're treating you like a fool. They're using you.

spk_0 Like a professor. So we started convincing me by saying, you are doing things for the university and the system that full professors do, but you're not getting any credit.

spk_0 So anyway, so it took a while before my scholarly identity. I feel like a scholar for sure now, but for different reasons. So I'll stop there.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I love this question too, because interesting in your introduction of me said, oh, this is James's title.

spk_0 And I understand that that means something. That's a long way for more of this started.

spk_0 And I'm an oddity in some way. So I went to I went to graduate school with some questions.

spk_0 But my questions were about how? How do we know this? How can we determine that?

spk_0 What are what are ways of revealing and showing and discovery?

spk_0 Those are methods in foreign questions.

spk_0 I didn't have any any any what any what questions.

spk_0 And that was.

spk_0 But there was a kind of a naïve, but I was developing some confidence in how we do research the process of research and I had questions connected to that.

spk_0 So in my graduate, in my graduate training, I focused on research methods, particularly applied methods.

spk_0 And my first academic appointment was in a program in measurement statistics and evaluation.

spk_0 No, just didn't.

spk_0 And those are my colleagues.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 It's about how people construct you, right?

spk_0 So I did a postdoc at BTS.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And you work with Michael Nettles.

spk_0 And you're right.

spk_0 So you're that.

spk_0 And you got applied to these jobs, but you're that.

spk_0 Wow.

spk_0 And I applied for job at University of Maryland.

spk_0 I didn't get what?

spk_0 Oh, God.

spk_0 See, but we love each other anyway.

spk_0 And.

spk_0 But that meant my kind of community of colleagues.

spk_0 Very different.

spk_0 The same thing.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 How questions.

spk_0 But I was emerging.

spk_0 Into into into what's right.

spk_0 And that often came from.

spk_0 Contacts even though I was doing applied work, most of the context at that were in black communities and black institutions up higher.

spk_0 And.

spk_0 Mike Nettles gave me some.

spk_0 Um, really good information, I mean, a direction early on that set me up for that, that future segue into higher education, it's the data set I used and developed for my dissertation.

spk_0 That involved students from historically black colleges.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 So even though I developed a kind of a technique to understand their progression through and

spk_0 through college, it helped me think about those institutions and the context of those institutions

spk_0 which then later become part of my developing the scholarly identity within the context of

spk_0 a higher education. But that didn't come to fruition until I changed institutions and

spk_0 got an appointment in a policy leadership department in a program in higher education.

spk_0 But interesting, even during those early years at Temple, I started my career at University

spk_0 Delaware. Those early years at Temple, it's old James, you could teach methods, you could teach that.

spk_0 And what was I doing? I was teaching math.

spk_0 And then there was a kind of a duality. So doing sort of teaching in that work, but moving away from

spk_0 active research and scholarship around methodology. Because I knew it was coming because I did a

spk_0 I wrote a piece that got a lot of it. It's got people to think about race,

spk_0 a measuring race as a critical barrier in an evaluation journey. And people like, I think more people

spk_0 read it outside of evaluation and apply research. It's just got people thinking about we're doing

spk_0 race-based research, but then quantitatively caught a weak capture. So I'm thinking about now,

spk_0 again, I'm loving this conversation about sin. And the back of my head about scholarly identity.

spk_0 Help me with this. Do you know, ever describe myself as a scholar?

spk_0 Oh, really? Yeah. Me neither. Me either, actually. That is, I can't say I'm not my self-askiller.

spk_0 Maybe if it's not applicable. It's not enough. I think other people, yeah,

spk_0 open you all in that way than myself included. But I think I'm in a particular generation

spk_0 that that meant something and our problem was condition that I didn't have access to that.

spk_0 Oh, interesting. You have to grow yourself into that.

spk_0 It didn't. And then it's it's conceived that this almost unattainable status.

spk_0 That's preserved. That's it. Yes. For certain folks.

spk_0 For certain folks. Yes. But I totally identified with that. Absolutely. Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, I love this kind of conversation about troubling that and kind of sitting in it. And

spk_0 as a message for young people coming up, like it's yours captured it, hold it.

spk_0 Right. Yeah. But then when you hold it, you're going to be held to responsibility too.

spk_0 Yeah. Right. Right.

spk_0 I mean, that's the part of what I loved about this team this year is that troubling the notion of

spk_0 who gets legitimized as a scholar by way of just what their identities are.

spk_0 Who isn't sort of invited into that conception? Who's at the margins? And I guess thinking about

spk_0 your career, your evolution of your sort of identity, what key lessons would you say?

spk_0 Would you share what others about who are sort of navigating their journey as emerging scholars

spk_0 new to the ash community? What nuggets of wisdom would you share with them about the journey ahead

spk_0 for them? I want to start with a word that was thrown at me early in my career.

spk_0 And I wasn't completely understanding of it. It was about connections and integration

spk_0 of my of my work. And I was criticized early. So given the direction that I didn't have a cohesive

spk_0 program of research, we're doing things that you were interested in like doing. And it was

spk_0 patchwork. So my my objective early on was it made sense to me. I just needed to have made sense

spk_0 to other people. Yeah, that's good. That's good. So I need to provide the connect the connective

spk_0 tissue and the glue. That's the onus, particularly on emerging styles. Don't shy away from kind of

spk_0 who you are in your work and your authenticity. But I would be in a position to communicate it in

spk_0 a articulated and away. That's meaningful to others beyond yourself. You can make full sense to

spk_0 you. But others will evaluate and appraise what you do. And as someone told me once that as

spk_0 as a researcher, as a scholar, you also an educator for your peers. Absolutely. That's a good

spk_0 hard test. That's kind of another piece of labor that we have to do. I just had a conversation with

spk_0 someone who is considering a plentiful full professor and had some notion that the senior colleagues

spk_0 really don't understand him is working, but they're going to have to both. And he's been suggested

spk_0 to do the coffee lunch thing. Oh, yes. That'll make rounds.

spk_0 Yes, he wanted to know what did I think about it. But first I told him all of that was

spk_0 problem. Matt, right now, come so far to have to

spk_0 to grovel in that way. And I ended with yes, do coffee.

spk_0 That's real. I've become more pragmatic in my older age.

spk_0 And because I said, take it as an opportunity for you to sell yourself and sell you

spk_0 and tell people who you are. And it's like don't let anyone else do that.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. If that he if that means doing coffee and lunch, take that opportunity to tell

spk_0 your colleagues and eventually tell the world who you are.

spk_0 Oh, James has always been so much more of the Lord has had both hands on you.

spk_0 I mean, you know, okay, if I understand the question to you're saying out of what we experienced

spk_0 or just in general, our advice is for general for folks who are emerging scholars new to the

spk_0 community. Trying to figure this thing out. Like what it is to do this. You know, I guess I feel

spk_0 like the community it made it's not change as much as I'm assuming it's changed. It feels like

spk_0 there's so much more that I see young scholars doing that they were way ahead of what I was thinking

spk_0 about doing. I feel I don't feel like I'm getting advice from them. I was at CEP last year

spk_0 soaking it all up because you know, I just feel like wow. And in fact, I said to Walter Alton

spk_0 the awards. I do I have to wear tie right?

spk_0 I mean, I was at the awards ceremony. I looked back at Walter when I was seeing all the all the

spk_0 awards. I said, Lord, they are to he said, look, it just means we have done our job now. We eat

spk_0 it. It's okay. I was like, I am overwhelmed. So when it comes to like, what can I offer the new

spk_0 generation? It's in different areas than I think they might be interested in. But I will say this,

spk_0 I did not collaborate a lot early in my career at all because coming out of administration,

spk_0 people were saying she's not a scholar. Like I'm like, Jane, I didn't know that I really don't

spk_0 describe myself as a scholar in that sense at all. I do own my professorial career at this point,

spk_0 right? But I don't say, oh, I don't I don't leave with that. But I was more concerned that people

spk_0 would think I didn't write my stuff, even when I was publishing with my students, because I was

spk_0 coming out of administration, my sense of being a people thinking of me as a researcher in a

spk_0 scholar was not there. And I was developing it. And so I did not collaborate with people for

spk_0 very, very long time. And that was in part intentional because I was still trying to figure out what

spk_0 I was doing. So what could I offer a collaboration in my mind? And the early parts of my career was

spk_0 so limited. And so by time I started to do any collaborations, I was really way behind the

spk_0 people. So I think it is important to figure out who does it make sense for you to collaborate with?

spk_0 And I know that can also be troubling because there's I think APT processes, I know on my own

spk_0 campuses, in the case, I've gotten better at helping, um, acknowledging the team work and the things

spk_0 that people are doing. But you know, you got to think about all that. And so you might be on a

spk_0 campus where that's not useful. That's not helpful. And also you got to think about like, you know,

spk_0 if you collaborate with people who can that eliminates folks who can then write for you often.

spk_0 That's true. But yeah. You know, so it's I know that's not a so I don't even know that that's

spk_0 necessarily good advice, but it's something that I learned I wished I had had done earlier because

spk_0 I felt like I was out of the loop on those connections in ways that would have catapulted my

spk_0 ability to get more research done. Like there's a lot of benefits in being able to by time I did

spk_0 start collaborating. I did more. I did better because I, you know, when you're working on a team. So

spk_0 that's, you know, I think about that. But I'm going to say something about this going to lunch with

spk_0 people. This is why I said I have both hands on you and one perhaps on me. You know, I struggle with

spk_0 this. I, I am not, um, I, yes, I'm pragmatic. But I'm also, I have a philosophy that 50% that

spk_0 this is how I got through as 50% of these people ain't going like you. And I was okay with 50%.

spk_0 Now 50% won't get you over the tenure line. What I meant philosophically in my mind was I'm not

spk_0 trying to be everybody's friend because the ways in which I was experiencing the academy was too

spk_0 many battles. And I didn't want to lose myself on the other side of tenure. I didn't want to not

spk_0 know who I was by going to lunch with people or whatever. But I understand what you're saying,

spk_0 James, there might be a practical sense of I would go to those lunches if I feel like I can be in

spk_0 that coffee or that lunch and still be predominantly myself. But if I have to really, um, kind of be

spk_0 performative, I do those don't, don't, don't, don't do those on. You don't have to do that because

spk_0 they don't vote no anyway. That one coffee and that one lunch is not going to change their mind.

spk_0 And you're not going to feel good about it because you're going to find out that they said no and

spk_0 you went to coffee with them. You won't even go back to that coffee shop. So in my mind,

spk_0 and I know that's not very friendly and that's not very collegial. But it's real because there's

spk_0 a price. I think sometimes as I'm just going to say as a black woman, I feel we pay all the time

spk_0 of having to be, you know, a big on it. Nice. And again, speak on it. Speak on it. Speak on it.

spk_0 It's just the truth. It's just the truth. And you know, there's a part of me that's like, I'm not

spk_0 doing, if you don't, I'm not doing all that. And so I have to honestly say, and I'm a nice person.

spk_0 Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I didn't go to coffee with people. James, I did. I went to

spk_0 coffee with the people who I felt were open to hearing what, um, what, who I was and what my

spk_0 workers, but and I knew that they would speak on my behalf perhaps or not. So I just think we give

spk_0 up so much in these systems that I'm concerned about reserving the part of me that feels whole

spk_0 and helping. Yeah. So anyway, but I know you're you're so much more generous in the

spk_0 that it's going to be real bad. It's going to be so glad I'm at the retirement season.

spk_0 Like don't ask her to do nothing. Okay. I got problems. I don't, but you know what I'm saying.

spk_0 That's so interesting because I had a situation where I'm trying to give up two

spk_0 information, too much information. You're a teenager now. Let it go. That's true. I don't

spk_0 want to. I was on a search committee. As a junior faculty probably shouldn't have been on a

spk_0 search committee as the only junior faculty and was currently in the process of going up for

spk_0 10 year and we were searching for a dean, right? So all kinds of problem at situations here, right?

spk_0 And I guess I talked too much in the meeting, which is a problem of mine that I'm not

spk_0 interested in fixing, right? And so there was a senior faculty who was like, oh, I feel like

spk_0 I don't really know you. They weren't in my department or anything like that. And they wanted to

spk_0 go to lunch. And I was like, here we go with these lunches, right? Like, let's go to lunch. And so

spk_0 it's crazy because it had already decided that this person was not interested actually getting to

spk_0 know me. They just wanted to know about me. Right? And so I had made this decision that like, oh,

spk_0 this is a fact-finding lunch, right? Like this is a, I need to get information on this person. And so

spk_0 resolved myself and not to talk about myself. I resolved myself to be like, let's learn about you.

spk_0 But I don't know much about you. And it was just like, it's crazy that you have to go through

spk_0 all of these mind Olympics about these things and to your point, Sharon, knowing I have to go

spk_0 and protect myself. And you should be able to be open with colleagues and vulnerable. But you

spk_0 can't be, especially as a black woman. And in the first five minutes of our conversation, it was

spk_0 confirmed for me because they asked me about myself. I always tell things that you can Google. So

spk_0 and so I said like, oh, you know, where I went to school and I did my PhD at Penn. And they

spk_0 immediately said, Oh, you mean Penn State, as if I didn't know where I went to school. So

spk_0 and I was like, No, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we are whatever. And so

spk_0 it was just, but that told me immediately, right? Like what this person was about into your point.

spk_0 It's just like, at some point, I do think it's important for us to decide particularly as black

spk_0 women, how much of myself am I going to give away? Yes. And how much of myself am I going to hold on

spk_0 to? Because I have that right to not give the Academy and people in the Academy all of me.

spk_0 Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I did have a question for you, because you all have seen the field and

spk_0 ash in particular go through many iterations and stages. I know James, you, I feel like you've

spk_0 been there since ash was a baby, baby. Um, so I'm curious, how have you seen that the field and

spk_0 the academic landscape shift over time? And from your vantage point, how do you see

spk_0 scholars evolving? And where do you think they're heading to or have they evolved? Have they

spk_0 the the landscape over time? Yeah. I appreciate the question. And I think I've been around for a minute

spk_0 too. Yeah. I remember when ash was in the spring. But I want to

spk_0 in reflecting on changes in shifts in the field and in ash. I want to go back to a comment that

spk_0 Sharon said about collaboration, um, or strategy for emerging scholars and doing faculty,

spk_0 because this is a major shift I've seen in the field doing career where we are now.

spk_0 You see expectation of the volume that's expected. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Um,

spk_0 I think we were coming to the field at a time Sharon where you could actually make your mark

spk_0 by going deep, right? Yes. Take that. Having the profound effect could be in a small area

spk_0 in one or a couple of pieces, right? You could shift the conversation in a particular area and

spk_0 it's all you've made out of standing contribution. But that may not reflect kind of an enormous

spk_0 amount of productivity. Right. I think the expectations have changed so

spk_0 yeah, absolutely. We won't be able to meet those standards by yourself. Self, exactly.

spk_0 I'll listen to a particularly like history for instance, where they expect to look

spk_0 doing maps. Um, but in other kinds of sort of empirical work and other scholarship,

spk_0 even critical scholarship, when we come back to that, um, there's just an expectation of

spk_0 an increased volume of that. And you can, you can do that if you're in the company

spk_0 and the community of others and like others. Even though as Sharon said, that comes with risk.

spk_0 But, um, but I think it's, um, it's, it's, it's, it's imperative. Yeah.

spk_0 Um, you know, I have just a very different organization.

spk_0 Not only in this composition, but in, in the work, that people can in the field

spk_0 produce and also work that's published in the, in the journals in the field, particularly

spk_0 with them, one of the flagship journals that actually some risk multiple for.

spk_0 Um, when I witness the kind of critical scholarship that's being published in a review,

spk_0 and that's clear indication of where the field is going. And, and this is just not for the

spk_0 field of higher education, right? People are over the last two decades really consistently.

spk_0 People are asking questions, critical questions around power and, and just all.

spk_0 And there's, and there's an expectation that faculty will know something or be able to engage

spk_0 in those kind of critical conversations and, and, and, and I think also less,

spk_0 methodologically, I've been around long enough. Would you believe that my first academic appointment

spk_0 in the college of education where I resided? There was not one qualitative methods for, wow.

spk_0 You said not, wow, answer when they hired an adjunct,

spk_0 each of qualitative methods. Wow. This is a Delaware? Yes, this Delaware.

spk_0 Oh, wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. We're not talking about the 40s 50s. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Wow. And, um, which also reflects, and methodological training and shifts and methodological

spk_0 training that, that we are required. Um, and often, I, I, I, I, I consider myself a mixed

spk_0 methodologist. I can be qualitative work, quantitative work. Um, and there's going pressure for us to,

spk_0 to be, to be so conversant methodology. Yes. Yes. Yes. Even the questions that are, that are being

spk_0 asked and questions that are driven by external agencies.

spk_0 It's my last one. Um, that's fun. Our work. And higher education, the shift or, um,

spk_0 STEM topics, uh, yeah. It's been internally in polls. Um, and because that's also a requirement,

spk_0 you, you have to generate funding. Yeah. Funding. Yeah. Right. Right. Right.

spk_0 Right. I think eventually tenure track positions will only be for fall who can support themselves.

spk_0 Wow. But, um, that, that's in the future. And we'll hire non-tenured people to do the teaching

spk_0 and advising. Mm-hmm. That's insightful. I mean, I think James, to me, James hit on a lot of the,

spk_0 for example, he's been at Ashtonley a lot longer in the years I went. I, I mean, I was not a good

spk_0 Ash, but it's because I asked was Ash was the struggle for me for a while. I didn't like, I mean,

spk_0 truly, and I was in the administrator and I just saw so much game plan and jockeying and I'm used to,

spk_0 like I just felt like everybody had to sort of, I won't name any names, but if you don't know someone

spk_0 so and they haven't blessed you and I was like, I was all in my, like, I'm sorry, but it's about,

spk_0 it felt at some level like pledging and, I'm sorry, academic pledging and I wasn't really good at it

spk_0 in my mid-30s coming in, but I will say this. I will say this. What I love about what I see and I,

spk_0 and I totally coastline on everything that James just said about, it's gotten ridiculous in terms of

spk_0 the expectations. I feel the stress of that and I can see it on, on, on young scholars who are

spk_0 just trying to do it all and, and I'm racing and it's unfortunate, but here's what I'm excited about

spk_0 that I see and that is the discourse and the, the critical frameworks and raising which scholars are

spk_0 applying sort of multi-dissinatory lenses to the work that brings understanding and complexity

spk_0 around populations I care deeply about, you know, minoritized communities and I'm inspired by the work.

spk_0 I feel like they're, I sometimes I feel like I'm reading pieces and it's the way I wished I had

spk_0 had the terminology or the frameworks way back 20-something years ago to write about, like I can see

spk_0 myself in their work. I can, it's explanatory and ways and liberates, it sort of liberates you

spk_0 in ways that I find very empowering and so I'm very excited about what I see happening with

spk_0 the work of a lot of scholars. It just seems more complex and layered in ways that I wasn't trained

spk_0 to do because I wasn't trained to think about becoming a professor. I thought that we were just

spk_0 sort of strange beings, but I find myself inspired by it right now and it's making me think about how

spk_0 even some work that I want to do, it's, I feel like I'm in a study season as a result of that. So

spk_0 I am inspired by that. I will say that just just in terms of just practically, I feel like

spk_0 Ash has just who's that Ash seems different. I mean, it's just much more diverse and

spk_0 and I think people feel, to me they, I feel like a lot of the scholars coming in now embrace their

spk_0 beaks. Their scholarly sense of self, a lie, sooner than I felt like a lot of us did back in the day.

spk_0 So that's all I would add. It's um, yeah, I could have been a better Ash participant over the years.

spk_0 There's something you said that made me think I was telling Felicia the other day that Vincent

spk_0 Tinto emailed me that he read a chapter that I wrote for new directions around belonging and I

spk_0 was troubling his notion of academic and social integration and he read it.

spk_0 He's actively engaged in work and he sent me the thoughtful note saying that he wish

spk_0 he had read my piece before he had gone down that path and some of the work. He wanted to offer

spk_0 some clarifications to him. Right. Right. About my critique. But I just thought that was the most

spk_0 generous thing that, you know, that this idea that, you know, that he could still be engaged in

spk_0 the work and receive a critique and sort of acknowledge that while that, that's a very useful

spk_0 perspective. And I wish I had known what you're saying now before I had gone down the path of

spk_0 attention work. So it was, Royale, I have to share this because we share Vincent Tinto moment

spk_0 because back to all the way the cycle of what our scholarly identity, I had an opportunity

spk_0 years ago to be on a panel that was, it was a recording. I had the video of the eight track.

spk_0 That's how long it was. Vincent, no, was Vincent, and I was like, I was invited to be on this,

spk_0 I can't remember the whole context. And so they were videotaping us for like an hour and a half

spk_0 whatever. And I got to know Vincent Tinto really well. And so they would take us off camera. He'd say,

spk_0 you can handle that. So well, you're, he just was affirming my research, my scholarship, my ability

spk_0 to handle all of the questions and the ways we were interacting. And as a result of that interaction,

spk_0 he started to learn a lot more about me, ended up being one of my writers when I went up.

spk_0 Because I thought I had to have all these senior faculty. He also was surprised. He thought I was

spk_0 a quant person. He thought I didn't want to take it but work because of my, he just,

spk_0 it was hilarious. But it was a way that I got connected to him that sort of made me be able to

spk_0 relate and become more comfortable with these powering scholars. And so I love that. You know,

spk_0 it just matters like how we interact with people. But he ended up being very instrumental in

spk_0 learning about what some of my journey was about, but also affirming my scholarship. So it's a

spk_0 full circle thing. So to hear he is still reading and learning, that's amazing. Yeah. So last question.

spk_0 I want you to think back to your first year as an assistant professor at Delaware, at Maryland,

spk_0 knowing that what, knowing what you know now, what advice would you share with yourself?

spk_0 What advice would I share with myself? It really, again, my journey was much more turbulent

spk_0 than I would have liked for it to have been internally turbulent. I would have told myself to

spk_0 breathe more frequently, more deeply that you're going to do well. And you're going to do better

spk_0 than you think you're going to do because I wouldn't have believed it. I was just, I went into it

spk_0 saying, I don't have anything to lose. I know I can be a senior love administrator if this doesn't

spk_0 work out. So I wasn't fearful of the risk. But I would have told her to breathe because I,

spk_0 I definitely told her back then, you're building a life, you're not just doing a career change

spk_0 because especially like I said, having a becoming a mother and all the balancing of the balls.

spk_0 But I would have told myself, you just breathe, you're going to be okay and you're going to,

spk_0 you're going to be better than okay. You're going to do well. And you're going to make a difference.

spk_0 I would not have believed that there would be an actual difference I would make, not just in the

spk_0 people and people that I felt like I was interacting with in lives, but in the literature and the

spk_0 field like that. I would have been told that I would have been like, nobody's going to pay attention

spk_0 to high student black students anti deficit. But you know, and it's what James said, I think our

spk_0 generation, we were able to go deeper over a longer and do something in a way differently than I

spk_0 think people have time to do now. So I would have told myself, you're going to be, you're going to,

spk_0 you're going to do well. It'll be okay. Yeah, love it. I really appreciate that you want to share

spk_0 I would tell myself that too. And also, I would say, James, get out, get out of your head.

spk_0 Yes. Yes. I was so obsessed with all the swirling messages. Yes.

spk_0 Can you try in that? It was almost as you have to be so exceptional.

spk_0 You have to be better than yourself. That causes you to think about not sort of being always

spk_0 being less than. So get out of your head. And understanding and realizing

spk_0 your talents, your contributions, because you have something to say.

spk_0 Yes. You just need to position yourself to, to say that. It's speaking of talent. I would also

spk_0 say that I would tell myself, don't get blindsided about what you think your strengths are.

spk_0 We know what we do. Yeah. I said before, the Academy has an odd and interesting way of turning

spk_0 your strengths into your week. Oh, preach. Isn't that the truth? Can we start from beginning?

spk_0 Yes. I mean, serious. Go ahead. Go ahead, preach.

spk_0 Can you imagine being told, these are actually students being told that you're too productive,

spk_0 you're too productive, you're too publicly engaged. Yes. Yes. You teach too well.

spk_0 Yes. So the thing you do, well, you don't focus on, but those are the things that will potentially

spk_0 and the Academy to try to bring you to bring you down. And again, another lesson is

spk_0 in the portness of relationships. Yes. We're told that it's about us and about our talents.

spk_0 But an editor decides if your article is published in that journal and editor person,

spk_0 right? And you see across the room at an end, right? Introduce yourself. Go to lunch. Go

spk_0 coffee. Yes. Relationships are really important. And I can't, I think young young scholars emerging

spk_0 emerging styles in junior faculty are being taught to be strategic. And that's so important.

spk_0 Like so strategic about who you think will be your reviewers. That's true. So you can't publish

spk_0 with this person. But sometimes the strategy sort of takes the, takes the passion and

spk_0 from the from what we do. I know this work can be hard. It can be troublesome. It can make you feel

spk_0 often less than we're over, over evaluate. But we're here. And I think we're here purposely.

spk_0 And we have to say, it's a blessing. I think a program in general, we have a lot of

spk_0 opportunities for limited. No one, my family and media family went to college.

spk_0 And I become an academic, I become a teacher. And then I have, and I'm giving that opportunity

spk_0 to provide opportunities for up to 10. And I never think early in my career that there will be a

spk_0 kind of a generative role in responsibility for me. But it actually starts as assistant professor

spk_0 that you are there to support. I know you got all your work, but you are there to support

spk_0 the people who are coming. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Support your students in the next generation.

spk_0 Yes. Thank you. Wow. I just want to thank you all because the longer I live the more I

spk_0 find it so important to give people flowers. Well, they're here to smile them. Yes.

spk_0 And I'm going to try and do this without crying. But I just want to thank you both

spk_0 for being passability models for so many of us. Not just as scholars, but as good people

spk_0 and as good community members and showing us that you don't have to sacrifice

spk_0 being a good person to be a successful scholar. Yeah. And I don't know that we always get those messages.

spk_0 So I'm thankful for both of you. And I often tell people I would envy here.

spk_0 For both of you, but especially you sharing, having you as a master student,

spk_0 you were the first professor I had that made me think I could be a faculty member. Like that song,

spk_0 being a professor and being a researcher as something I could do, as I very literally

spk_0 wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. And in both of you,

spk_0 you have been really important pillars for me,

spk_0 during times in the field for me that are really challenging. And at times, traumatic.

spk_0 And it was helpful to have senior scholars who could hold you and help you hold yourself

spk_0 together. Yes. And let you know it was going to be all right. And you were going to be all right.

spk_0 And then this field and the people in it don't have power over you.

spk_0 And so I just want to thank you for that. And also just say that I know you all are kind of in the

spk_0 the more seasoned years of your career, but we still need you. Yeah. And you're still important.

spk_0 And it helps all of us to see you and to know that you're still there. And I just want you to

spk_0 know that you still inspire all of us. All of us. And that's why we have your back because none of us

spk_0 would be here without you. Yeah. So I just wanted to thank you. Thank you. I love you all. So

spk_0 much. I'm deeply honored just to be participant, just to be in this moment with you all. Thank you.

spk_0 So much love. And I'm sending it all back. We received and have received it. Yes. Over the years.

spk_0 And now I'm a big partner. I'm crying. I think that's how we close the season.

spk_0 If you don't do it, you need to say it. Thank you so much for being on this journey saying yes

spk_0 for saying yes over the years. Not just in this business. We appreciate you. We love you. And

spk_0 we can't wait to see you. Yes. Same here. You all are superstars. I love you. Love you too.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 Thank you to our guests, Dr. James O'Ravis and Sharon Freesprit for joining us today.

spk_0 And given us hope for the future of higher education, I appreciate so much.

spk_0 Their words of wisdom as I'm sure listeners will also. So as we wrap up another season of the podcast,

spk_0 I must say these have been some amazing and inspiring conversations.

spk_0 However, before we say goodbye, I don't want to leave without asking you one final question.

spk_0 We asked so many of our guests. And now I want to know, how do you see your scholarly identity

spk_0 at this time in your life and your career? Yeah, that's such a good question. I often think about

spk_0 my career in chapters, right? That in certain seasons and chapters, some things become more or less

spk_0 in this particular chapter, post-tinyarine on the journey for full professor. I see the importance

spk_0 now perhaps more than ever to really do translational work. I'll often think about

spk_0 Sullivan Simone talking about sort of arriving at the state of full professor and realizing that

spk_0 she wanted to make a pivot in her career and embrace the organizational change,

spk_0 racial equity work. I've been engaged in that work, but I'm thinking more perhaps more than ever,

spk_0 how do I translate the good insights from my work into usable recommendations for policy and

spk_0 practice that really improve the material conditions of people. And that's, I guess how I'm thinking

spk_0 about my identity at this point. How about you? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I recently transitioned

spk_0 to a new institution and I have tenure and I don't know that I ever thought about myself transitioning

spk_0 to a new institution halfway across the country in a world I never lived in before. But I think it's

spk_0 been a really great opportunity for me to reflect on what I do want my career to look like at this

spk_0 point and how I see myself as a scholar. And I think where I am now is really thinking about

spk_0 how to not just translate my work but really get in the trenches on the ground and work with

spk_0 people and leaders at institutions to translate what we know and what we've talked about into

spk_0 actual practices and not just practices as you know just theory and form practices. Absolutely.

spk_0 But really also learning even more from the folks on the ground who are living this

spk_0 day to day and doing more participatory action research in the governance space which is not normal

spk_0 but something that I think is something we need to grow on, right? Like we aren't board members.

spk_0 So but really working in partnership to help build the capacity and the infrastructure of

spk_0 these schools in ways that they can best serve students best serve their communities best serve

spk_0 the the states for public institutions that are in and really contribute to the goals and

spk_0 ideals that we know the society can live up to. And so just really thinking about how to take

spk_0 the knowledge that I have but also the privilege that I have and really begin deeper partnerships

spk_0 with the communities that I engage in research with. And so just just really

spk_0 getting my hands more dirty. Yes. If for lack of better words I'm really excited and then kind of

spk_0 taking ownership of being a I don't even want to say it like make career. Yeah, we're

spk_0 a scholar in the community and hopefully be the type of mentor and type of possibility model

spk_0 that so many were for me. That we needed that had. Right. And so taking taking that responsibility

spk_0 and paying it forward. Yeah, I would with that I want to just say thank you to everyone who

spk_0 listened this season. We want to thank Jenny Hart for the invitation to come back to watch

spk_0 this podcast again. We shout out to Joy Gaston Gales who this

spk_0 was her original sort of conception. She saw us sitting at the bar having cocktail and so I have

spk_0 the perfect shot before you. So we appreciate it of the opportunity to keep coming back. Thank

spk_0 you to the Ash Office for all of their work. All of your support to bring this into fruition.

spk_0 With that any final word solution? Yeah. So just one big final word so you all know at the end

spk_0 of each conversation we like to engage in a segment called scholar soundtrack as we reflect

spk_0 on what musical selections rang in our minds as we think about the day's conversation. And I

spk_0 could think of no better song to come to mind after the conversations we have had and the conversation

spk_0 for today than light the universe by Vivian Green, algebra blessed, Leah Smith, Lauren T'Lise,

spk_0 and Trina Furby. Because as we learned from our season senior scholars, this world of academia

spk_0 can make us question if we're scholars, if we've done enough, if we can have impact. But it's important

spk_0 to stop, breathe, and remember that we bring value to these spaces. And the first person that has

spk_0 to know we are scholars is ourselves. We have to tell ourselves I am different, I have purpose.

spk_0 I am brilliant and I I can like the whole universe. Thank you to the seasoned and senior scholars

spk_0 like Dr. Sharon Friespert, Dr. James Earl Davis, who have not only shown us the way through their

spk_0 amazing scholarship and their commitment to the field, but cherish on as we all figure out

spk_0 our own scholarly identities. If we like the whole universe, these senior scholars are the ones

spk_0 who were the lights to show us the way and we are grateful.

spk_0 But life is really what you make it. Look in the mirrors, they need that formation. I am special, I am gorgeous,

spk_0 I am chosen, yes I know it and I, yes I can like the whole universe. I am different, I am

spk_0 heartless, I am brilliant, yes I feel it and I, yes I can like the whole universe.

spk_0 Well, that is today's song for our Scholar Soundtrack and it also wraps up our Scholar Soundtrack

spk_0 for this season. So please revisit our previous episodes and past seasons to hear all of the great

spk_0 Scholar Soundtrack selections. We hope they've brought you just a little bit more joy during your time

spk_0 with us.

Season 3, Episode 5: A Lifetime of Being a Scholar

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