S3E5 - Avalanche in Action: Blockchain’s Real-World Revolution with Afeez Awowole

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello and welcome to another episode of niche to necessity. My name is Taylor Zorak and today we are, we have a very great episode called avalanche and action, a fees, a wallet on blockchains real world impact.

spk_0 Welcome a fees. Thanks for joining us.

spk_0 The group plays your teller. Thanks for having me.

spk_0 Well, so I just would love to get started by having you share a little bit about your background and your role as head of textbook accounting and digital assets at Adelaves.

spk_0 Right. Yeah. So my background quite an interesting one. It's one I often call the acetate content, Brangler because I didn't set out to be an accountant. You know, I studied a biological sciences, zoology specifically and then I majored in genetics.

spk_0 So I I didn't plan or set out to do all of this looking back 1780, 19 years ago.

spk_0 But then when I graduated and I got into banking, right, that's actually where I started and that kind of exposed me to maybe finance and accounting a little bit and then a picked up a job at the KPMG for the first four years was pretty much to interest all this stuff, auditing a show.

spk_0 And after that I got into illiterate stuff because I always had affinity for this no Ellen disturb just to gain folks and accounting and insurance stuff.

spk_0 I did that to go into the BPMG worked originally and I was a KPMG up until a while and then I moved into a UI did a really similar stuff and then for matter.

spk_0 So matter is where really going to into crypto again now it wasn't planned. You know, I joined matter and then we started out Libra.

spk_0 I jumped on sheep and you thought that to be a really great experience. And from matter down to other labs and here I am and I've also recently started out my own my own practice, my consultancy, which is focused on web to your customer advisory and I'm like fraction as CFO kind of a kind of stuff.

spk_0 So that that is to allow me because ability there's a lot we can do for this web three ecosystem from an accountant finance standpoint.

spk_0 So that allows me to have more latitude and more flexibility in just working with the community altogether.

spk_0 There's a lot of stuff we're doing for public benefit collaboration. I know you wrote a book, I worked on a couple of international papers and all that.

spk_0 So you know, you just have the bandwidth and the flexibility to do a lot of stuff without having to check what is conflict on this side or conflict on your side.

spk_0 So we're looking to to skill that practice as well. So that's that's my background and where we are.

spk_0 That's very cool. Yeah, very interesting stuff. I mean, it's like I took the round about way to accountancy and I you know it gives you different perspectives on the field. I'm sure.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I you know, I like to say a science background. So and I was a really loved for this in chemistry, you know, all this kind of stuff.

spk_0 And whenever I'm just trying to go through accounting accounting, it's like I'm just looking through physics. That's what it seems like to me.

spk_0 So it's a really it's my understanding. I think my my science background has been really helpful in me just navigating complexities around the count.

spk_0 Totally, yeah, you need a curious mind, especially if you're working in in crypto and I think that having that kind of academic focus on it allows you to be agile like you're talking about with this new practice to be able to kind of go in different realms and and and learn new protocols and things like that.

spk_0 So very cool.

spk_0 So today we're focused on the avalanche and it's equals sorry avalanche and it's ecosystem giving your expertise. Can you provide a little bit of an overview on avalanches mission and its significance in the blockchain space.

spk_0 Yeah, that's a really great question. So avalanches mission critical, you know, we are focused on building infrastructure for the digital economy. I wonder when I say we actually put it I clarify this now I mean.

spk_0 Myself and as a representative at the participants in the avalanche ecosystem, I don't mean maybe avalanche foundation, I just mean people generally that actively involved in the avalanche ecosystem trying to build a trying to push it and under likes and I also like to add that you know whatever I say anything I say on this is just represents my view my view on doesn't represent the view of my employers know,

spk_0 does that cause all to eat or the avalanche community self just my views. So avalanches say it's mission critical we focus on building infrastructure for the digital economy, you know, and something that is scalable is secure is fast is ultra fast ultra fast, talking about tens of thousands of transactions per second.

spk_0 No, and it's secure and low fees because that's very important and also environmental friendly note so institutions enterprises even consumers they need something that works, not the internet as brought us this far.

spk_0 If I'm a very different form of technologies in the past and what avalanches building is just the core critical infrastructure, you know that develop delivers the next generation or even the current is what we're currently experiencing of how to build how to move fast and how to scale because we are mission is

spk_0 now bring digitized world assets that we are very common on chain is a business imperative, but I just more business would I to be actually even see small businesses come on chain faster, you know that big businesses.

spk_0 So it is that's that's way the that movement that's with focus done yeah on chain is a huge imperative.

spk_0 I love that yeah yeah I mean I've used avalanche before and it's the settlement times are extremely fast and it's it you know it's it's it's a great chain for those types of things and I think that like you know what you're talking about with speed security reliability it's yeah yeah.

spk_0 I throughput low latency ultra fast you know just think about the best things in blockchain technology and avalanches got it.

spk_0 Yeah I've seen a lot of headlines recently about you know avalanche bringing on bring assets on chain now from an accounting standpoint how does putting an asset you know whether it's a sports collectible or a deed or you know very various different types of assets right we can have a number of different assets and how does that alter the way that you measure recognize and audit on the balance sheet.

spk_0 Right so it depends on what is being took nice on chain what is being brought to on chain okay because you could have a whole what out of you grab a reward asset because they have a beauty enough.

spk_0 X number of rooms the 10 number of rooms okay but we're actually just be tokenizing just one room on chain okay but again you could bring the entire building on chain and it could also bring the building on the land on chain okay so when you're talking about tokenization I am part of accounting.

spk_0 You really need to understand what exactly is being brought on chain you know it because tokenization is representing a reward asset without physical or digital and representing the assets on chain no and the price of what is on chain tracks the value of the reward asset right so we need to go through first you know what are the rights that what has been tokenized brings on board and what obligatory answers to the red at early to need to do you have a right of access the right of you.

spk_0 We use the only surprise and we'll talk on our ship as well the legal owner will be different from the accounting owner now this is a very very common challenge in the web through industry right so those are the kind of things that we we can ask us the rights that's what is being tokenized conveys upon the order you know and what kind of obligations that there is to use at the rest of your time transfer at their legacy royalty rights for example all the rest of your interest that could be deemed as an obligation.

spk_0 So you know the asset is also a form of other other writer on the on the asset and of course you also need to think about the not going to the audit or the proper needs to vote evaluation I talked about what has been represented on chain needs to track the value of the assets in the reward so valuation and you know the obligation survey access associated with that and a couple of other stuff and with also very important to verify that the asset exists.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Blockchain is what the less so I could be you know anywhere in the world seen an asset on chain one interact with it but then it could be you know the fight of the world.

spk_0 How do I actually verify that I as a resist before before entering to the deal or get it or whatever and recognizing it on my balance sheet as an asset so confirm the existence is also equally important.

spk_0 We could go into this no longer longer longer talk about it for like the all are but those are kind of basic things you should look out for the kind of rights and obligations and what exactly is represented on chain.

spk_0 I think you said it really greatly I think that when I teach people about this stuff I tell them to kind of just like forget that it's blockchain forget that it's crypto you know what is it that we're trying to put on the balance sheet and you know if it's a building like let's use rules that exist for a building you know I can.

spk_0 Again you make a great point you know do you have a legal right to that building or is it just you know can you actually verify that it exists like or you just find like a picture of a building right but if you compare why that the building is actually does actually exist the rights to that building in that jurisdiction can exist on chain and you know now that you own that asset okay we're going to treat it as if it's a building right there might be some subtle changes in how we disclose it on the balance sheet or things like that.

spk_0 We might have additional disclosures that highlight that it's a detokenized version of that asset but we're going to look through to what the underlying asset that it's representing is and apply accounting treatment to it in that way and I think that the best way to kind of like I think de mystify this whole industry is to is to say okay what's actually happening let's forget that it's crypto or let's forget that it's on chain and just look at what what what the true asset is I think that it's a good thing.

spk_0 I think that's a really good you put that really well.

spk_0 Exactly what exactly are we doing yeah yeah a local about is it a feature of the building how the building set yeah there's a lot of misoccurrency about what what would be tokenized and what is being tokenized right right so that that's classic example exactly and I think you also need the local buying if you're doing things like real assets you need the local buying of the local jurisdictions because.

spk_0 You know I can say that i'm going to put it building on chain but if the local jurisdiction doesn't recognize that as a way to transfer ownership then there's no legal right to it as well and so I think all these things are important considerations but it leads me into some of the actual like developments that i'm seeing so we were talking about buildings but we were also talking about digital collectibles I know thief were recently selected avalanche to power it's dedicated blockchain for for web 3's initiatives and I know that they do some NFT projects but they also do other types of stuff.

spk_0 Can you elaborate on this partnership and its objectives.

spk_0 Yeah that's one of the biggest news that came out of the avalanche summit in London in May right now because that partnership was announced there and what what FIFA is doing is no there's this unique concept to avalanche where avalanche think of avalanche like and I use a house or property as examples in this space really because people are able to relate to that.

spk_0 Think of avalanche as a house is only in the middle of the rooms now the only middle rooms are the old it's itself an hour one but then as I say it can scale infinitely like you can build as many ever ones as you want on it so what we're finding is that businesses enterprises now they they're not looking to.

spk_0 You can view down network from scratch you can deploy as some say 15 minutes no depending on you know the congestion on the network some say may have 20 minutes but in the fastest you see is just a bit under on a 15 minutes you can deploy a whole new blockchain say till or blockchain or got till or everyone on avalanche in just about that time and what FIFA has done is now deployed down FIFA blockchain the well and on it different chain before we all knew that but there's something that FIFA was looking for especially as we.

spk_0 We approach that work of 26 not a looking for is in a network that is fast okay there are billions of people globally transacting or doing one thing or the other with FIFA where we're watching the football trying to put test tickets and the right to boost collectibles or doing something when as FIFA FIFA work of approaches or even when you're simply paid so what FIFA is looking this next work that can support all of that now in network that it's fast you know low fee.

spk_0 You know that's a scalable because there's going to be a lot going on and what we're seeing here is just FIFA bringing in FIFA collects and if you order initiatives on what but there's going to be more and more as and it's not just for countries okay or jurisdictions is also for clubs so there's going to be a lot more activity so FIFA as adopted avalanche as a network that it can trust in answer that the belief is secure the scalable fast customizable as well and something that's ready to serve them for their needs.

spk_0 And this brings a lot of a lot of legitimacy to the future web to all together because FIFA is the biggest and the most renowned sports organization in the world and I say you're coming on chain and trying to do something big for fans globally so it's a huge development.

spk_0 That's awesome yeah so you know coming down the same path you know they chose avalanche for specific reasons you know can we get into a little bit more of the specifics of like what is it about avalanche I made such an attractive place for FIFA to build this out.

spk_0 Yeah now there are a couple of technical advantages that we can discuss in this regard okay I mentioned about the soft second at a selection of reality right and maybe I can drive this home a little better using the personal experience okay I'm a press experience at work up now I was raw shape 2018 now I had to get tickets maybe about six seven months before then or even we were long before then and I remember there's a virtual queue.

spk_0 I remember being on that virtual queue for at least at least six hours okay yeah you're gonna go jump on the queue when I get tickets for certain games you know and then you know of course you're not gonna see by computer or your phone for six hours you know you're gonna be doing other things on the side and then you go to the page but maybe you being it's refreshed you've been locked out or turned out and then you're gonna start all over again and then you go back up the queue.

spk_0 No and this is some of the some of the challenges that we we have so right time I was then getting tickets for Qatar 2022 I had that's expectation that okay this could take the old day you know yeah and that is one of the one of the benefits or one of the challenges that avalanche solves in the form of the benefit now that FIFA is on chain because we have soft second transaction finality no it's processing tens of thousands of transactions in a second so

spk_0 even in a minute you know on the thousands of of the tickets tickets purchases of funding is going to let go on through you know super fast so that's one of the technical advantages that that we have there all of course minimum fees and even this you know the certain obvious that come or true avalanche lately that fees have been slashed by as high as as more just 96% no so we're like people are gonna be who want people to adopt this technology if you want people to come on chain

spk_0 if you want enterprises institutions public sector governments you know wherever it is if one end to come on chain it needs to be attractive there and that's one of the one of the pirates entry is the is the I fees of using blockchain so slashed fees by about 96% and all that no and of course the resilience to network congestion going by date I'm for a game one of the reasons you be on a virtual key for six plus has is natural congestion now yeah and other

spk_0 avalanche scales you know unlimited in an unlimited manner now so these are some of the technical challenges that's FIFA experience or they they know they've seen okay and they want to the one to sort so I have a lot of provides an uphill infrastructure to be able to tackle all of this and provide funds with you know a better experience and of course you know they also know things about the collectibles you know we're bringing so many things you know like a

spk_0 the variables that are being called now the bring so many things on just to engage and improve fun experience so there's that's there's a lot to do this yeah

spk_0 So what's the question about this kind of this collaboration because I think it's really interesting what you know how would you say that it enhances the digital fan experiences and and what do you think this signifies for the future sports and blockchain integration because it seems like you know FIFA seems to be on like the cutting

spk_0 edge of a lot of these technological advancements and yeah how do you see this enhancing that experience for fans now what what this collaboration does is that it's going to be

spk_0 revolutions the the digital fan experiences by the talk about you know no no delays no network congestion no stay in on virtual cues for for hours you know but it's also going to enable ownership of digital collectibles and then announce the interactive participation in games

spk_0 and other potential feature applications such as a blockchain based ticket and you know a all a lot of other things I'll give an example of one of some of the things you've seen of FIFA collect OK FIFA collect is one of the early or one of the first

spk_0 other initiatives that FIFA is bringing on this other like still you know the 1970 World Cup was in Mexico OK and that was the first time FIFA actually launched collectibles for fans OK

spk_0 1970 we're talking 55 years ago you know yeah and I think was called panini or something like that now this things have become

spk_0 variables because you can't even some people own them but you can't even track the owners OK or even find it or say oh you might own one and I might not even know

spk_0 they're probably not listed online and yeah but what what one of the things that's it's going to happen is the all collectibles called panini no panini is coming on chain OK

spk_0 and you know you're you're able to easily identify these as a collectible and able to engage interact or even own it no so this is some of the unique experiences that's

spk_0 that FIFA coming on chain is is going to bring to fans and in addition to I speed you know and and the things we've discussed already so it's

spk_0 that the partnership itself is what I call a pivotal moment in the integration of block the technology into global sports decating you know engaging with fans engaging with you know users that want I speed as

spk_0 free as is for transactions or platforms that have been historically known to be slow or straighting for users and this is it because use case example.

spk_0 That's cool yeah I think that having these experiences on chain allows you to yeah like you're saying track the ownership of these rare collectibles from these

spk_0 potentially like amazing road cups or or you know whatever events that they have that something amazing happens at like people are going to want to collect those

spk_0 things and there's value in that I think that being able to to track transfer and easily sell these collectibles it's really key and it's going to really impact the engagement from a fan experience

spk_0 because you will you you can go to this event and come out with a proof of attendance token or you know or something else it's like no I was there I can prove it kind of thing.

spk_0 I used to collect pop this and the cops they used to serve drinks. I just I just give me share keep on after every game yeah I said 100 the countries that played on the dates I mean share keep on of that but again that's that's still now they're better ways to to keep memories and collectibles right right totally.

spk_0 So another kind of thing that we've started to see people talk about but you haven't seen as much implement implementation of is the tokenization of real estate and real or assets on chain people talk about that as a huge like market for the blockchain industry to move into but you don't actually see as much tangible movement on it until recently there was an announcement that Bergen count Bergen County in New Jersey.

spk_0 It's an undertaking a project to tokenize 240 billion in real estate deeds on the avalanche network. So I love to get your insights on this like you can provide a little bit more details on on this initiative and kind of what anticipated benefits of this talk is is for records management but also any challenges that might arise out of this implementation as well.

spk_0 Yeah that's that's another big announcement for our village you know we have all these partnerships and a lot of great things happening in the Netherlands. Now the Virgin deal is a private kind of partnership between balcony.

spk_0 balcony is a doubt. Okay so balcony is they are down on one and avalanche as well. I've said on limited that one so they are all on an avalanche. Our deal doing is working with municipalities or counties of state government in the United States to tokenize assets.

spk_0 So in this particular is that in Virgin which is the Virgin is the largest county in New Jersey in terms of population now maybe around 1 million 1 million residents there about in this case what balcony is done is anti five year partnership with the Virgin count collect office to say we're going to be in about three thousand three hundred seventy thousand property deeds on chain.

spk_0 No yeah because there's been historical a lot of issues with the rest of the how these assets are managed the records multi kind of systems of a put on and some of them are even built on cobalt now cobalt seems like you know the ice age now so there the redundancies the slow enough for its records and so many other things so what this deal is going to achieve is going to bring all of these on chain no transparency.

spk_0 You know easy easy access to records no and easy it's it's it's eliminated a lot of requests in the in the process of the property management or real estate management in the county and it's it's a huge because it is not just now the initiative okay it is it is a partnership that is given legitimacy gain to blockchain I especially with the public sector partnership or you know governments coming on to blockchain and adopting the use of the public.

spk_0 We've seen instances in the past where California DMV also an avalanche okay and brought 42 million vehicle license status on on chain so this is this is another classic use case in the government sector and only the public in the public space and it is it is just going to bring you know efficiencies one of the key wins here and which has been discussed and which we're working on is I think to manage a lot of things.

spk_0 We're working on the property detail to and transfer all that currently takes up on 90 days okay but yeah 90 days in emerging county but we're actually working on reducing that to potentially just one day.

spk_0 Hey yeah yeah you can say that loud so that's yeah that is that is one of the one of the key benefits here you know and back when he's also worked with the orange county and in this case we're able to uncover you know about one million dollars there's been lost in tax revenue.

spk_0 You know so there's one despite there's going to be maybe similar benefits from this.

spk_0 Budging Budging project as well so there's a whole that that's that's coming with respect to this partnership I work with like I said I was going to bring more transparency more speed more accuracy.

spk_0 The limit walk on it's a void bureaucracy I just make things faster which is what everybody wants.

spk_0 Yeah wow that's very cool 90 days to one days insane you know it's like the 90 95 plus percent reduction that's that's really amazing and for folks that that are looking to get things done really quickly and if you want to move it just think about the amount of liquidity that adds to real world assets right we don't necessarily consider real world assets to be liquid right like we we have cash and cash equivalence because there's

spk_0 a lot of money that's you can immediately convert them into value and it's really interesting to see how these initiatives are going to flip that to where you know if you can transfer a property in a matter of hours eventually right that's now liquid assets it's fall a tile right because those those those values are not.

spk_0 Pagans you know they're not stable right they're going to change over time but the ability to offload an asset like that.

spk_0 Rescored yeah adds a lot of of utility to these different assets as well yeah yeah I'm talking about utility that one of the other big advantage to bring in this project on avalanche is the the elimination of the reduction in the risk the ransomware now I probably could say elimination because it's quite a secure platform

spk_0 but in 2023 I think about 23 municipalities in New Jersey were subject to ransomware and it's some instances some of this paid you know they include huge financial losses in terms of having to address this and I just

spk_0 resolve the whole issue so this will also kind of takes takes away that that's kind of a complexity or challenge that's the municipality and the and the kinds of all is hard.

spk_0 Yeah yeah very interesting so how does this project influence the adoption of blockchain in the public sector you know applications and what does it mean for the future of real estate transactions.

spk_0 Yeah let's let's say if you if you're seeing you're seeing governments of public sector you know interaction blockchain and you know saying or we're bringing nearly 400,000 because I believe by the end of by the end of the five of the partnership they're going to be more aspects or more buildings and everything so you're going to go just go on and on and on and on and on yeah if you're seeing a county and this is and by the way this is the biggest of this what's 240 billion dollars.

spk_0 So today's in the real blockchain technology this is the biggest tokenization project right biggest real estate tokenization project so what is going to do I need not come in from enterprises or private institutions right it's coming from the government the county government sector in the United States what is going to do it I believe is going to just inspire more confidence when people that we want to jump into the space we're seeing instances of real estate deals last equals to buy you know I'm not going to do that.

spk_0 And a couple of these and that globally know but this this is a big as so far and wait but all of what most of what we've seen I don't like the private institutions in terms of real estate now we are beginning to see real engagements on the public side and it's it's just going to scale confidence and there will be more use cases and the more you bring these things on chain the more the more benefit there and the more you can actually scale the more you get to understand.

spk_0 You know how to how to better build how to better prepare for things that are massive because you the trillions of dollars to come on chain in the next five to 10 years trillions of US dollars in terms of but real estate gaming enterprise defi you know also a sort of things on portacles so when you start this way now you just building confidence and there is there is one thing I personally believe I also believe that the love you know active for sponsor this is a system do.

spk_0 We believe in organic growth we believe in steady growth just one step at a time don't rush it progress is really key and compiles just like that you know yeah you can get your compiles so this is one deal you know you had the the deal before now you have no funds money market funds and all of that on chain which we're just going to keep on doing that whether it's public or it's always where I spend mission where I spend mission less.

spk_0 But since the point I don't know especially in the block in the ecosystem going to continue to have more confidence that this is possible this is possible and the possibilities are endless and useless yeah you talk about challenges earlier I think I can skip mine my response to that because we're thinking about a few other things the I think one of the biggest challenges to this is going to be that the migration a lot of all of these is some paper or paper piece records you know you want to move you know three to seven thousand deeds on chain.

spk_0 There's going to be a huge challenge to that so that's a migration is going to be a bit of a complexity and change money to change money as well when people have blockchain okay they kind of think oh I'm not going to do it no.

spk_0 Okay I think one one thing is to kind of really manage the expectation you are the as a property owner and now your property has been the digital property has been to recognize the representative blockchain doesn't mean necessarily have to interact with the blockchain okay you leave that to the people who are doing the blockchain stuff or who in the L1.

spk_0 You just know that your access whatever it is you want to do want to transfer property you want to sell you want to do this or that it's going to be easier it's going to be faster it's going to be more accessible there's going to be more transparency no but on the side of the staff of the county as well.

spk_0 There needs to be trading on the for them to know how to use this out of deploy it how to make it beneficial to the rest of the county so I believe you do biggest challenges would be that immigration and then change money joints and of course because there are different municipalities okay

spk_0 in this county and I think maybe some of them are different different rules or different legal frameworks no so until Britain those those legal requirements and trying to understand what what legal requirements you know needs to be satisfied or for food for bringing an asset or property did on chain is also going to be really critical to making this a successful project what we're back in it and we know it's possible.

spk_0 Yeah I think one one one other challenge that I'm seeing that I haven't really heard talked about much is you know what happens when inevitably at some point someone wallet gets hacked and then these on chain assets get transferred to someone else right obviously in the legal like at the county level yeah.

spk_0 They may not necessarily recognize that as a transfer of that asset but now the digital assets are now in someone else's wallet and no longer in an original owners possession and so I'm kind of curious to see you know I don't think there's a solution for it yet because we haven't had that problem yet but I think we will eventually have that problem where someone's you know we see people get scammed or fished or whatever all the time or you just accidentally send into the wrong address through address poisoning attack or something like that and so

spk_0 I'm curious as to see how governments roll is out because my only concern with assets going on chain is that you either have where someone could lose that asset because they're their their account get their hardware wallet gets hacked or someone someone gets access to the hardware wallet or their hot wallet and those assets get transferred or we're saying

spk_0 hey this government is going to have central as control and last authority and so that transfer may be invalidated so you know what I mean so I think that that's the only thing that I'm curious to see how it shakes out with any new technology there's going to be these problems that we haven't

spk_0 in a way that I think that's going to be a very good solution for the people that are in their own business and I can't imagine someone losing a building because they lost their tokenized asset on chain.

spk_0 Yeah, so I'm just I'm I'm I'm I'm curious as to your thoughts on that I know we can talk about this question before but it's Kim from my mind and I think that like it's an interesting one and I think it's a big challenge.

spk_0 Yeah, I think the first thing to that I would like to see there is no no platform is is Ac proof or you know manipulation proof. No, what I do get to what it's physically what I it's on chain, you know, that there's always the same thing as

spk_0 that but somehow more security in order and we we brought us a avalanche has been around for a long time and it's secure. No, no hack noise to deck with whatever. Yeah, so we we cannot really believe and this is my

spk_0 question as well that if you put in the asset on chain we have you know Blackrock formed for example, beautiful on on on

spk_0 avalanche, you know, we have front to tackle we have a lot of token as talking nice asset back securities on avalanche and it's all

spk_0 this a thing where we have five protocols on avalanche, no, so that there's a lot going on and they're running smoothly, no, but they gave you

spk_0 no saying things can't go wrong. Yeah, but it seems to go wrong. I think in what you just described in one of the first things to

spk_0 kind of look at is what exactly was represented on chain that was stolen or hacked or manipulated, you know, I lose I get legal legal

spk_0 framework comes into consideration here. So what we're just talking about just talking from an accounting lens. Okay, if I lose

spk_0 access or right off ownership or whatever it is to something that's tokenized on chain, does that necessarily mean or does that

spk_0 translate to mean losing the physical ownership of the asset in real world, you know, legal legal to really skip. Yeah, but in this case,

spk_0 it's when we're talking about this budget deal, what is actually happening is that it is not I as an asset owner that's tokenizing the property did.

spk_0 Lubei in mind is say we absolutely what has been tokenized. What has been tokenized as a property did. Yeah. Yeah. So someone has it.

spk_0 So someone has in sold it. It's still let's say your name line. It was still. Yeah, it would have access to it, but it would be pointless access because now I'd ask that would be

spk_0 invalidated because the transfer never happened in the records of the of the of the of the.

spk_0 So something like that. Yeah. If the government's that's tokenized or the no brought on chain the property did not the assets would or

spk_0 I lose my paper deed. Yeah.

spk_0 Stills it. It's like they don't own that property now. They just have my deed and there's no unless they forged the document, which on chain wouldn't be possible. Right.

spk_0 You know, so okay. It's a really interesting situation because on chain after committed to off chain and off chain after committed to on chain as long as the assets is in the rule word.

spk_0 And then there's a tokenized version of whatever it is or it represents on chain. They have to come to each other.

spk_0 Right. There's a disparity. Then it's a there's a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Okay. That's a great answer. I know I know that I that through that.

spk_0 Janet let field, but I think it's a great answer. And I just hadn't thought about that process where it's like, okay.

spk_0 Because hacks happen and it's not the blockchain's fault. It's the users fall 99% of the time.

spk_0 And so it's it's an interesting kind of scenario.

spk_0 Although I did this is one of the many reasons why I just enjoy this space. The different different questions. The make you think about just the make you think about what's what's

spk_0 possible. And you know, how to how to really solve for every the complexities in this space. And that's just one one example you just.

spk_0 So I really I really love I really love talking about things like this. Yeah. Yeah. And I think can you can imagine because you know a lot of the early ethos of blockchain was about like self custody.

spk_0 And I think that the ability to self custody is extremely important. However, when you're talking about massive asset holdings and things like that or like.

spk_0 On chain founders that get insanely rich rich. I think that.

spk_0 There is also a place for custody custody assets with third parties because we're seeing all around the globe now.

spk_0 CEOs of major crypto companies getting targeted with we call them wrench attacks, but basically like you know being held hostage to be to be able to give over their keys. And so.

spk_0 This is by no means me saying that I don't think self custody is important. I think it's I think it's critically important to the network. And I think the ability to sell custody is is like paramount to blockchain.

spk_0 However, when you start to start talking about real world assets, you're starting to talk about big money. It's really important to have options. And I imagine things like big real world asset portfolios real estate portfolios that are on chain.

spk_0 There's going to be a service eventually that manages those assets for you and by custodying them on your behalf. And I think that you know.

spk_0 Just because those solutions haven't been popularized yet, I think the best direction we're going to go to for a lot of these kind of high ticket assets that are being held on chain as well.

spk_0 That's. That's.

spk_0 But just kind of going beyond these high profile projects. What are some other real world applications that avalanches involved in these days.

spk_0 All that goes to the loss of them. We are actively engaged in several other real world staff across various sectors. We have private sector with public sector.

spk_0 And for different use cases, their permission. No, because one of the challenges people or institutions have when coming on chain is a blockchain is open. But I want things to be confidential, especially with that financial institution is a regulated entity, for example.

spk_0 So they are permission developed really. We've laid in really, really useful privacy futures into other cloud, for example, which is a portal to other apps that is given.

spk_0 Avalanche. All this have other stuff in the sometimes they get a bit if we trick away when you see them back to back. So and.

spk_0 There's so many gaming gaming is one. Okay, avalanches began gaming. We have a half degree. It doesn't like them. Now, which is, which is really cool. And we are also a maple story universe, which is gaming and make a stories also being on collectibles.

spk_0 No, they don't collectibles in the gaming world. So gaming gaming is a big one. I talked about and the defi layer, defi platforms.

spk_0 I do to use an avalanche. There's you know, you'd find me in and so many of the stuff that's that's going on on avalanche.

spk_0 There's a couple of sticker points, the book coin projects as well.

spk_0 Yeah, and there's more common. But we have the while being still become commission, you know, the launching the sticker corners where other launches one of the platforms that they selected.

spk_0 Now, that's another government's government projects. So there's there's many reward use cases that we can talk and talk about. There's also identity verification, which the law is uses on behalf of the US government for disaster management relief.

spk_0 No, that's also on avalanche. And now, there's many, many enterprise risk cases, talk about money market for and so the frankly, the, the, the, the protein.

spk_0 I mean, Black work, you know, there's the JP Morgan on this project. There's so much so much going on. So what are you talking about? You know, ads and the NFTs, whole show gaming enterprise use cases are going to deviate a vacation, governments use this. There's a lot going on.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And, you know, you basically touched on there. But is there any, I know that you, you know, you can't tell about certain things that are in the worrisome, maybe not, not kind of public yet. But are there any developments we can expect from avalanche in the near future?

spk_0 You know, from from a public sector adoption standpoint or enterprise adoption standpoint.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I know, I know how beauty teams are busy. Okay. They're busy constantly, you know, trying to build and trying to be people or institutions and all that they're going to build on an avalanche. And that's why you have all this, you know, huge announcements, you know, FIFA,

spk_0 there's a lot of things that are going on. And that's where my story games, burgeon, black work, or all the other, all these big names on an avalanche. So there's, we're, we're only just getting started. Like I said earlier, we believe in progress.

spk_0 We believe in just going steady and you know, just one day at a time, one project at a time, getting this right. Avalanche is not about noise, you know, or, you know, just hype.

spk_0 You know, we're just building and building real world value building for real world use cases, building in a way that solves and a real world problems in a way. The question at the back of my mind.

spk_0 When I'm talking to our product teams, okay, when I'm trying to evaluate, you know, accounts and stuff.

spk_0 Now, because that's that's that's my core day job right is what exactly are we building, what are we solving. And this product that you're about to launch or this thing you're bringing on board.

spk_0 Exactly. So it does is solve in a problem in the reward. And I'll also be there. I think right now there's at least $15 million of grants available across the avalanche ecosystem.

spk_0 And I've been very much involved in that in terms of graph time, administration, monitoring grants and just understanding what projects are being brought on board.

spk_0 How much grants they can they can be how much grant the grant dispossed them and things like that. And I tell you for a fact, there's so, so many things.

spk_0 Okay, some things might because you need to see that you're going to be building something that is worthy and valuable to people to come on chain.

spk_0 Before the grants are dispossed, I mean, instead, but there are so many conversations going on right now that's, you know, it's in another one or two or three years.

spk_0 I'm going to see a lot more value and the old mission of digitized all the word assets is going to become even more meaningful. So there's a lot coming. I know that for sure.

spk_0 Yeah. Okay, awesome. Um, even on the AI side. Okay, because that is very important to talk about as well. Yeah, I think avalanches also going big or in just, you know,

spk_0 as floating AI at the intersection of blockchain and there's there's another dedicated for that as well.

spk_0 Very cool. Um, so you've been a professional in the states for a few years now. Um, for other accounting professionals that are looking to enter web three.

spk_0 Um, what advice would you give them? Well, what what advice did you tell them, you know, getting started about diving into different ecosystems and just like getting their feet wet in web three.

spk_0 Right. I think the first thing is the blockchain, let's trade because if you don't understand it, you can't figure it out. You can't, you can't, you can't try with it. Okay.

spk_0 Uh, and being blockchain, let's trade means, you know, doing a lot at your own time. Okay. I, I'm self taught. Most of the things I know in the space itself. So it's just, you know, running on my sleeves and talking to people.

spk_0 Uh, I read your book for example, you know, yeah, we can, you know, yeah, talking to people, you know, doing my research and I got into this space about five six years ago, there, there's barely anything out there on account for digital assets.

spk_0 I think the only thing we had which is maybe close to being authoritative was just an IFRS competitions committee on.

spk_0 digital on cryptocurrency that they literally just said, look to IS to a little to IS that he is an even alone. Yeah. Yeah. And about here we are building building world class payment solutions, you know, coming up stable,

spk_0 college yet coming up all sorts of things and saying, we're going to figure it out. We're going to come for this somehow. So you have to have an open mind and inquisitive mind and a remind that those that has the notion that you can do this, you can figure this out. It's a very, very potent.

spk_0 But not everyone with different people with different skillset. Okay. Not everyone we have the the skill or the skill to look through what does this as a represents, you know, what is this, what is that work, what classification.

spk_0 I can I and I put it into what pockets can I can I push this into you. So I'll just say just just be blocking trade. Okay, try to understand what what I've spent contracts, what are digital assets, what kind of classes of this do we have, you know, what what they represent.

spk_0 Now we talked a lot about tokenization and right and obligations. You probably won't figure it out in the day. It's taking us a lot of journey, even though we come on this journey, you know, longer ready. But we open, we open to learning, you know, what kind of standard space, understand the peculiarities of work three.

spk_0 You know, there's a lot of misconception in this space, a lot of means a lot of the conception. Some people don't even be too much understand that the blockchain itself is different from the crypto.

spk_0 Okay. And I try to just look at it with completely from the crypto and just focus on the blockchain because that is what you're building on that is what brings reward value.

spk_0 You know, so try and understand that. And I say also network can communicate.

spk_0 I've been I've been directing with you for years, but you only met in person just a couple of weeks ago, you know, but you know, there's been a lot of value but in that interaction.

spk_0 You know, and there's a song for a lot of my network in this industry. So network, you know, try and connect the couple of accounting communities nine were three.

spk_0 Try and belongs to one or two talk to people and I just just get things going. It's really important because you can't figure it out all alone. You can't.

spk_0 So many a lot of a lot of interpretations, a lot of diversity in practice existed in this industry.

spk_0 And so you're coming in here, you need to add that network to talk to people, basting off the Empress says to abuse and opinions and just just kind of really gauge what's what is going on out there.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, that's my two second advice. I love that. What would you say are some ways that

spk_0 accountants that are that are making that switch and are doing the things that you're talking about.

spk_0 How can they approach the integration into traditional financial system. So like fit the Web 3 aspect into a Web 2 organization or Web 2

spk_0 organization that's looking to move into Web 3. How do we bridge those gaps and make it so that it's as as painless as a transition as possible, while also satisfying the needs of track fight.

spk_0 Great question. It's a bit tricky. Okay, and probably connects back to what I said. I just have a double mind being positive and trying to understand what is going on. If you don't understand it.

spk_0 And this is my this is our work. Okay, before I try to prefer solutions or anything, first side, I understand because if I don't understand it, I'm really going to struggle giving you the best advice or try to try to walk it to you on what you're trying to achieve.

spk_0 So for a guy that trying to bridge all of this as a open your mind, understand it.

spk_0 Okay, and particularly in this space, you know, all the abilities of concept, what I work through what I work through what I stratify what I defy, all the abilities of concept.

spk_0 Okay, and excuse me, why you might have auditability audits and assuring us as long proven in Web 2 or whatever, whatever case we had up onto blockchain came along.

spk_0 But in Web 3, I want to come to blockchain. Okay, it is a continuous concept. Okay, yeah, because data is huge.

spk_0 You know, everything is different. You kind of your your your more your modus of brandy and how you get things done Web 2 will not cut it here.

spk_0 So you need to have you know, compliance at the back of the mind auditability, traceability and making sure that transactions are audited, auditable and they are presented in the way that you understand it and don't don't you ever try to say, well, I'm going to come back to that tomorrow.

spk_0 You know, yeah, you can't come back to it tomorrow, but don't leave it too long because it's going to just blow your mind down and come back to your problem and struggle.

spk_0 And this is one of the reasons why I'm a big fan or a big advocate of tooling. Yeah, if you know in small businesses or were to, you know, little kind of solutions or maybe spreadsheet time there and we caught it for you.

spk_0 Point Web 3. Okay, it's trying to do things manually is it this is the recipe for disaster. It's definitely going to go wrong. There is no two ways about it. It's really going wrong. You will try to do a lot of things manually.

spk_0 So automates what you can know, patch them all through tools and you know, just manually walk on the exceptions. There will be exceptions. No doubt got no tool out there is perfect. Some are good on this. Maybe not so good on this. Some are good on that. Maybe not so good on this.

spk_0 So whatever truly have to always be things that will fall through the cracks or exceptions and those are the kind of areas where you should only be doing minor work. So that's that's why you're in there.

spk_0 Yeah, I'll bounce as a question. What's that? I'll toss as a question. Yeah, it does. Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0 So as we kind of come to the conclusion, are there any final thoughts on the evolution of blockchain technology and its integration into mainstream industries?

spk_0 Did that you like to share with our listeners?

spk_0 That blockchain technology is something that has come and it has come to stay. It has survived. A lot of regulatory pushback, a lot of traditional legacy and institutional pushback.

spk_0 It survived the bad actors, the bad actors everywhere. And it just keeps it keeps getting strong.

spk_0 And I believe it is a pivotal moment in how we're building decentralized value management systems. That's how I like to call it.

spk_0 Because what we're doing is actually taking out barriers and just making sure that you're able to change that and transfer value in a way that's a similar, more efficient, faster and less fees or less cost.

spk_0 So this is this is this is come to stay and it's only continue to grow. I will work with seeing that I have a lunch. I've seen a couple.

spk_0 Okay, what I have a lunch with is another chain, whether it's another network. There is there is a whole lot's coming on.

spk_0 And this is a pivotal moment where we have the opportunity to define what the digital economy and do the infrastructure means for the next generation.

spk_0 So all ends on deck and all on board.

spk_0 I love it. I love it. So lastly, working listeners learn more about Abelant and in you yourself over at over at about give a labs and state non projects and what you're up to.

spk_0 Yeah, I'll say LinkedIn is my playground. Okay, I'm active on access where I just consume an X. Okay, because if you are in this space, you need to see what's going on. That's where most active players are most of the leaders in the industry.

spk_0 So I consume a lot of eggs, but in terms of engagements, you know, LinkedIn is my playground and our BD marketing and social teams. They're also they also have every presence on YouTube, LinkedIn and X.

spk_0 So that people can reach out to them and show them what I'm willing to know engage or answer questions.

spk_0 And there's also the avalanche academy. So we go to the AvAz.network. There's an account of me there whether it's a beginner or it's a fast.

spk_0 So whether you're just trying to find out what is my contract is actually looking to quote, you know, yeah, there's the tons of stuff there for free and I've learned Academy and block spot.

spk_0 You know, nearly everything we've discussed from the FIFA to Virgin to Black Robudo to all this tokenized funds, you know, with every big every big announcement on our launch comes an update to the block spots.

spk_0 So there's a tons of information out there that people can can can can can see through. But to the black space to reach me is LinkedIn for sure.

spk_0 Awesome. Well, a fees is great chatting with you and it was great meeting you finally after years of interacting on LinkedIn and things like that and have more and I was quite a potionist because I didn't know you're going to be at that between events now.

spk_0 Yeah, it was a great surprise to see you there. I mean, I figured you'd be there, but it was great to great to finally meet you and and a pleasure to have you on here and, you know, I've been I've been on avalanche a bit in the past, but I'm glad to have my eyes open a little more.

spk_0 Try to talk more about the developments and the the experience that you have there as well, so I really appreciate you bring their knowledge to us.

spk_0 Right, that's really that's really welcome. And thanks for having me, and I know a lot of what I've said I I'm even have limited visibility into what's going on. Maybe the engineers are the PD teams that we'll probably be able to all maybe people on the foundation side, which is people are actually pushing adoption.

spk_0 They might be able to share 10 times more insights as to what I've said.

spk_0 What I've said just been the nature of my job, what I've discussed with people, what I

spk_0 know and what is publicly out there.

spk_0 But mainly from an account, it's less account at a stunt point.

spk_0 But it's been great having this and talking through this.

spk_0 Thanks for having me.

spk_0 I love your humility.

spk_0 I feel like you've shared a lot with us and I appreciate it and hopefully talk to you

spk_0 again soon.

spk_0 Yeah, it's a pleasure.

spk_0 Thanks for having me again.

spk_0 Okay, I know fully with Talkston again.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I know the master crypto CFOs.

S3E5 - Avalanche in Action: Blockchain’s Real-World Revolution with Afeez Awowole

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