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Repatriation Futures at UCSB and Beyond

In this episode, Greg Johnson, Director of the Walter H. Cap Center at UCSB, discusses the critical topic of repatriation with experts in the field. The conversation focuses on the moral, ethical, and...

Repatriation Futures at UCSB and Beyond
Repatriation Futures at UCSB and Beyond
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spk_0 This podcast is a presentation of University of California Television.
spk_0 Like what you hear, consider making a donation at uctv.tv slash donate.
spk_0 So we can continue to bring you more great programs.
spk_0 I'm Greg Johnson, Director of the Walter H. Cap Center for the Study of Ethics, Religion and Public Life here at UCSB.
spk_0 And it's really my great honor to be hosting our guests here, whom I'll introduce in a moment.
spk_0 I want to thank our co-sponsors for this event, the American Indian and Indigenous Collective here at UCSB.
spk_0 And I also want to thank our primary sponsor tonight, the Henry Loose Foundation.
spk_0 We're grateful for being able to do this work.
spk_0 I want to begin with a land acknowledgement.
spk_0 I trust you know we are on Chumashland. This has been Chumashland continues to be Chumashland
spk_0 and will be Chumashland.
spk_0 And if you have any doubts about that, some of our panelists and other guests will be happy to clarify that idea in conversation later.
spk_0 What makes a land acknowledgement relevant in my view at least is that it has followed through institutionally.
spk_0 What does it mean to say that we're on Chumashland here as an institution?
spk_0 It implies relationships and responsibilities.
spk_0 We're trying to make good on that here at UCSB through our work on repatriation.
spk_0 It's no secret that for 30 years we've been out of compliance with federal law, embarrassingly so, astonishingly so.
spk_0 We've turned the corner, I'd like to think, over the last few years guided by the UC policy on repatriation,
spk_0 we're working with our Chumash partners to get the ancestors home.
spk_0 That works happening, it needs to continue to happen.
spk_0 It takes funding, it takes goodwill, it takes ethical responsibility, we're getting there.
spk_0 I hope we stay the course.
spk_0 I want to offer a few orienting remarks to start the conversation before I defer to our guests and I'll be short here.
spk_0 For those of you who don't know what is repatriation, let's address that question.
spk_0 In the sense we mean it here today, it's the return of ancestors back to the rightful homes.
spk_0 And also their objects.
spk_0 This is a moral issue, it's an ethical issue, a legal issue, it's also a religious and spiritual
spk_0 issue for most people involved and we want to center that in our conversation.
spk_0 Again, why does it matter here?
spk_0 How many of you have ever set foot in HSSB, the building?
spk_0 Good number of you.
spk_0 That's where our repository is.
spk_0 Many, many Chumash ancestors are there.
spk_0 That's where my department is.
spk_0 Every day I walk into that building, I feel a profound responsibility to that fact.
spk_0 Like I said, I think we're turning the corner, but the ancestors are here,
spk_0 so we need to acknowledge that, do better.
spk_0 It's also a global issue, we'll hear more about that in just a bit.
spk_0 Indigenous peoples around the globe are working on this because it connects to land rights,
spk_0 water rights, all kinds of things.
spk_0 It's the foundation for who people are.
spk_0 The question we're really grappling with is what's the future horizon of this work?
spk_0 The federal law was passed 30 years ago, more than 30 years ago.
spk_0 It's still unfolding, lots of good work has happened, but more remains to be done.
spk_0 When we formulated the idea for this panel and the workshop, it's attached to
spk_0 the election hadn't happened.
spk_0 We were imagining what's the aspirational horizon of this kind of work.
spk_0 Where do we go next?
spk_0 How do we push the edges?
spk_0 We're still trying to think in that hopeful way, and we're talking along those lines,
spk_0 but we're also realistic and we're asking questions about what does it mean
spk_0 to have federal funding gutted for this kind of work?
spk_0 What does it mean for the very laws that are foundational to it to be in jeopardy?
spk_0 We need to grapple with these issues.
spk_0 What relationships are being healed through this kind of work?
spk_0 And what kinds of relationships are being damaged when it's not done?
spk_0 To address such questions, the CAHPS Center has convened a group of experts for high-level
spk_0 workshop discussion on repatriation this week, and this event is one aspect of our work.
spk_0 We have assembled an A team to get this done. These folks are experts.
spk_0 They've all been doing this work for decades at various levels on the ground in legislatures,
spk_0 theoretically, practically. They're the ones getting it done.
spk_0 And their brief presentations, each of our experts will give a glimpse of the work they have
spk_0 been doing. Each will have about 10 minutes to speak. I'll introduce each intern.
spk_0 And then after that, time allowing, I'll ask a few questions of them, and then we'll turn to you
spk_0 for your questions. Then promptly at 5.30, we'll shift to our reception, and a conversation will
spk_0 continue. I hope. Okay? So that's the nature of what we're doing here.
spk_0 Christina Gonzalez is an enrolled member of the Coastal Band of the Chewmash Nation.
spk_0 She is a lecturer in American Indian studies at California State University, Fresno,
spk_0 and Cultural Registrar for the Santa Rosa Rancheria Tachi Yuka Tribe, where she specializes in
spk_0 repatriation and caring for cultural treasures. She has her BA in history and MA in museum studies.
spk_0 Christina is currently on the California Indian Basket Weavers Association Board of Directors,
spk_0 and also sits on the CSU Fresno Campus AgPRA Committee, as a CSU AIS representative,
spk_0 and on the UCSB Campus Committee here, where she is our chair, and she has guided us through
spk_0 difficult but very productive conversations. We're asking her to start first because of that role,
spk_0 and as a Coastal Chewmash person, this is her home land, and then we'll work outward,
spk_0 eventually getting all the way to India. So stay tuned. So please, Christina, we look forward to your words.
spk_0 Thank you, everyone. So, Akni Chow, welcome. So first and foremost, one of the things that I want to
spk_0 say is that repatriation work is very heavy. It is emotional, it is physical, and it is mental.
spk_0 Also native people, we also do not have spiritually a ceremony for rebarial. We are not used to having to
spk_0 have ceremonies again for things that were already done. So when we have repatriation, this is an
spk_0 interruption of that person's journey, and having to stop it and restart it, there is no ceremony
spk_0 for that. This work can also be very frustrating. It can be frustrating when dealing with
spk_0 agencies, museums, and institutions who lack an understanding of native people,
spk_0 lack an understanding of native peoples' connection to the land, to land to the environment.
spk_0 And there have been laws that have been passed, as Greg had mentioned. We had National
spk_0 Nagpur that it was passed 35 years ago. 35 years ago, and we are still talking about it today because
spk_0 of the lack of compliance for this. We have also, within that 35 years, had federal laws and state
spk_0 laws, California, again being one of them. And these laws have provided action and reaction.
spk_0 It has kind of put the fire under people to have to work with native people, which is always
spk_0 hard because people are not used to working with native people. They don't know how to work with
spk_0 native people. But this law is supposed to provide, well, to facilitate repatriation, right?
spk_0 Facilitate repatriation of things that are ancestors, that are their things, and other things that
spk_0 either have been looted, stolen, unjustly kind of traded, or sold. But these laws are, in my
spk_0 opinion, are dealing with now, with our campus, Nagpur committees. I'm very admirable of the work
spk_0 that UC Santa Barbara is doing, and our committee is doing. And along with Fresno State, the work that
spk_0 the University of the University is doing, and reaching out and working with native people. But I
spk_0 feel like a lot of our, the future of repatriation and the future of our work lies with students.
spk_0 It lies with who's teaching you. It lies with what are you being taught? And how can we, as native
spk_0 people, make you an ally of ours to help us, right, to identify not only things that are in the field,
spk_0 but also have that humanity, right, for native people, so that when we're sitting at the table,
spk_0 you can empathize with us, and you can understand us. So we're not battling the old guard like we are
spk_0 now, and how we're kind of, kind of, dealing with it and kind of coming out of that.
spk_0 But we're hoping that, you know, through students and through, through awesome faculty that we're
spk_0 able to facilitate repatriation, because it's not only the actual act of repatriating, there's also
spk_0 the spirit of the law in returning things, right, to do the right thing, and that there's ethics
spk_0 and morals behind this. You know, those ancestral remains that somebody dug up in a, in a field school,
spk_0 that's, that's, that's somebody's grandmother. You know, those things that somebody left at their,
spk_0 at that burial location, you know, those, that's that special plate that you might leave for your
spk_0 grandmother or your grandfather of their plate of goodies, their favorite goodies that they liked.
spk_0 You know, those things that they're also buried with, maybe it's grandma's brooch, right,
spk_0 that belongs to that person, those need to go back, you know, I think everybody would agree that
spk_0 nobody would want their ancestors in the same predicament that a lot of our ancestors are in.
spk_0 But again, through, through universities, you know, I feel like some of these things are
spk_0 definitely changing and I'm very hopeful for the future. And I, and I do realize there's a lot of
spk_0 moving parts. We're still dealing with an old guard, we're dealing with people who are, you know,
spk_0 kind of woke, right, or who understand the plight that native people are dealing with.
spk_0 But it's very hard. It's very hard. It's very hard to, for us to share things that we're not even,
spk_0 we're not supposed to be, you're not supposed to know these things, you're not supposed,
spk_0 we're not supposed to share that much, you shouldn't be knowing all of these things that we do know.
spk_0 And then it's hard because in these repatriations, we have to tell you things so that we can get
spk_0 these back, right. So how do we tell you without telling you everything, but convincing you that it
spk_0 is the right thing to return these things to us, right? And, and for native people, it's also very
spk_0 hard because all of our ancestors and all of their things are spread across the United States
spk_0 and in institutions and in museums around the world, right? So how do we, how do we facilitate that,
spk_0 that goodwill? How do we facilitate that? And I always come back to students. How do we do that?
spk_0 Right. And again, it's always been really hard, again, to do this work, you know, a long time ago,
spk_0 I was also in school and I did my internship under the California State Parks Repatriation
spk_0 Coordinator at that time. And it was very interesting work. So I sat on the other side before I
spk_0 am here today and I helped prepare every patriation for, believe it or not, the tribe that I actually
spk_0 worked for today, which is our Chimash Hereditary and traditional neighbors and partners. And even
spk_0 in that repatriation, the NACPRA coordinator suffered tremendously because her colleagues
spk_0 at state parks did not agree that certain remains were not old enough or that, you know,
spk_0 that we are dealing with. But there's a lot, there's still a lot of work that needs to be done,
spk_0 but I feel like it is definitely positive and I'm very hopeful for the future and I have a lot of
spk_0 hope. So don't take this as a pressure student. There's a lot of pressure. Don't take this as a lot
spk_0 because I have hope that, you know, it is through your education and through when you maintain your
spk_0 dream job that you want to do that you're going to be thinking back on how do you do the right thing,
spk_0 how do you do the ethical thing, you know, how do you empathize not only with your co-workers, right,
spk_0 but with the people that you are working with, you know, maybe outside of whatever that you are
spk_0 normally doing. But that is how I am. I really feel like, again, that I am very hopeful. There's
spk_0 a lot of work that still needs to be done. There's a lot of work that has been done in the past 35
spk_0 years. I'm thankful to also be in California and be a native in California because California
spk_0 strives to give non-recognized tribes such as the tribe that I am enrolled with a seat at the
spk_0 table to help bring all of our ancestors home. And so when I'm talking about all of our ancestors,
spk_0 I'm talking about our federally recognized ancestors are not federally recognized because a
spk_0 long time ago they were the same. They were all related and so a lot of times we're also pitted
spk_0 against each other in several instances and I feel like that's also something that, you know,
spk_0 we need to work on. But it's duly noted, right? But I am very hopeful and I'm very excited and
spk_0 you guys have a great group of people up here and I'm so honored to be up here and I would like to
spk_0 pass the baton on to the next speaker. Thank you so much, Kaki Nali. Thank you, Christina. Let's hear.
spk_0 All right, our next speaker is Nakiya Zavala. Nakiya Zavala is tribal historic preservation
spk_0 officer and cultural director for her tribe, the Sanin Naz Band of Chumash Indians. She has been
spk_0 involved with repatriation for the past 18 years under the leadership of her tribe. Zavala is
spk_0 also an original and let me tell you a core member of UCSB's Naggrant Repatriation Committee.
spk_0 And I tell you what, when we started this work and we need to move the ball, Nakiya could move
spk_0 the ball. And I won't talk about the attitude of the tone in here that I'll just say you got
spk_0 that done. My ancestors are happy. Yeah, all right, well, it's an honor to have you here as well.
spk_0 And so please, thank you. Great, thank you. Hakoyila, Makduka, Nakiya Zavala, Alapala, Hula Poo, Nisimala.
spk_0 Hello, everybody. It's you introduced to you. My name is Nakiya Zavala. I'm a tribal community member
spk_0 of the Sanin Naz Band of Chumash Indians located here in the Sanin Naz Valley. And I'm so happy to be
spk_0 sitting here with Christina. This is a great thing when you see tribes coming together to support
spk_0 repatriation and really moving that ball and getting the work done together. You know, you said
spk_0 so much and I almost felt like, what am I going to say? You know, and I can just speak to my experience
spk_0 doing this work. And right when we, I'm looking at some of the panel information and questions and
spk_0 you know, talking about future horizons for indigenous repatriation work, for me, I have to go to
spk_0 the past in order to move forward. And I think we know that would just about anything, right? I think we
spk_0 as Native people need to look at what's been done in the past and everything that's happened.
spk_0 Because once you start doing that, you really are pulling back different pieces of why things
spk_0 happen. Who's connected? Why are they connected? Why was this getting done? Because if you don't find
spk_0 it, you'll be a little lost. And not only that, but we also find lost ancestors that were moved around
spk_0 this, I call a black market within the university systems and museum systems where they're
spk_0 mishandling, trading, utilizing ancestors for testing without permission from tribes.
spk_0 You know, so we have to continue to do this work to put the puzzles together and really find the
spk_0 truth out. And you know, with the new regulations that just came out, there's a lot of discussion
spk_0 around duty of care, how our tribes, I mean, I'm sorry, how are these institutions enforcing these
spk_0 new changes to the regulations? How are they respecting them? You know, there's more work to be
spk_0 done. So it's not like we got these new regulations and all of the sudden institutions have been
spk_0 out of compliance for 35 years. They finally got it. I don't buy that. You know, now the pressures on,
spk_0 now things have changed. So the new regulations did push for tribes and to get into these spaces
spk_0 and no longer be dictated to on how we're supposed to do this work or tricked into allowing these
spk_0 institutions and museums to keep the ancestors. I mean, these are the truth. This is the truth.
spk_0 We have to speak truth into it. And when I think about education and academia, you know, Christina,
spk_0 you touched upon it a little bit, you know, how can we change the future? These are our future
spk_0 partners. They need to be educated on the truth. You know, I call out department chairs
spk_0 that environmental archaeology. Now's the time to start changing how we are educating these
spk_0 future professionals. How do you consult with tribes before you begin to do these digs?
spk_0 You know, surveys that's happening out on Chi-Mashland. So, you know, I feel like we have to go to
spk_0 those spaces where these disciplinaries are and we need to talk truth. And you need to begin to have
spk_0 these crucial conversations with tribes to educate, educate, you know, as much as we can and also
spk_0 understand these laws that they need to learn. And this is part of them getting into the spaces
spk_0 of where our ancestors could be as they're doing these digs, any type of archaeological material
spk_0 that they're coming across. I mean, I can't tell you how many collections are out there because
spk_0 of work that they did while they were getting their degree. And there's a lot of work that needs
spk_0 to be done to correct these areas and the continued collection and archiving of the material.
spk_0 What else can I say? You know, I want to give respect to those that are in the room,
spk_0 Kathleen Marshall. She's our nag per representative, Kathleen, if you could please stand up.
spk_0 She's also the vice chair of our elders council. So, she's my, you know,
spk_0 not mine, but our tribes represent it for nag pr as well as Boa or Menta. And I'd like to show
spk_0 respect to all the other two mesh people in the room as well. Eleanor, thank you for your prayers.
spk_0 I think when we talk more about this work and how we can move forward and what the future looks like,
spk_0 you know, just earlier I was talking about how important it is for tribes to educate the younger
spk_0 generation. This work is going to take a long time to get done, right? When you think that you're
spk_0 done with the museum or a university or Cal State, guess what ancestors are coming up. Why? Because
spk_0 they were testing them and sending out samples to Denmark and other spaces to get tested for the
spk_0 research. I cannot speak to that enough because it's something that has been horrific. When you see
spk_0 bags and bags of tiny vials coming back to you and you have to connect them back to the ancestors
spk_0 that they were taken from. I also think that it is a call out to how universities and museums have
spk_0 been connected in doing this work. And again, this is part of the research we have to do. It's not
spk_0 very simple. We have to really go through and look through archives. We have to, you know,
spk_0 research as much as we can and try to find where they're at. And the sad part of it is that means that
spk_0 when we repatriate them, they're not complete. And that's really hurtful.
spk_0 What else can I talk about here? You know, when I first started with understanding more about
spk_0 NAGPRIX, I always thought it was about inadvertent discoveries and rebaring right away.
spk_0 Immediately, it became more clear that, no, this is about bringing the ancestors home.
spk_0 And, you know, I want to recognize Joe Tologan and Elder that just passed away. And I remember
spk_0 hearing him talk and actually being quite angry, you know, demanding for the ancestors to come back.
spk_0 It's time for them to come home. But then to have, you know, museums use that they don't have enough
spk_0 money to go through their inventories. So they couldn't complete them. So therefore, the notices
spk_0 couldn't get done. You know, so you, you, I'm watching and I'm seeing how, how the law was being
spk_0 used to keep the ancestors. I'm seeing how I thought people were friends of our tribe actually
spk_0 use it in a way to take advantage, mislead and really, really, really hurt the trust in which
spk_0 tribes had with these individuals. And then, and I also think it's important to mention the call
spk_0 out and the responsibility of those that are in charge of institutions and our museums.
spk_0 I'm talking boards, I'm talking chancellors, you know, executive directors, presidents of these
spk_0 area, these institutions or museums. I think, and I really feel that tribes are in a different
spk_0 place. We understand it better. We understand our rights. We understand the law. And,
spk_0 and I think the elders before me that did all this work. And I also think for the, thankful for
spk_0 the partnerships, you know, because, you know, it's, it means a lot. And you'd be surprised how they
spk_0 tried to pin us against each other, all to keep the ancestors up on shelves and not give them their,
spk_0 you know, taken back to the rightful resting areas. Thank you, Nikiya. Thank you.
spk_0 Okay, next we have Justin Richland. He is professor and chair of the Department of Anthropology
spk_0 at the University of California Irvine and he's a faculty fellow of the American Bar Foundation.
spk_0 Since 2009, he has served as Associate Justice of the Hopi Appellate Court. From 2015 to 2019, he
spk_0 served as adjunct curator of North American Anthropology at the Chicago Field Museum. And now serves
spk_0 as a member of UCLA's Repatriation Review Committee. His scholarship concerns contemporary
spk_0 native nation law, governance, and their engagement with the U.S. His most recent book is
spk_0 Cooperation Without Submission, Indigenous Jurisdictions in Native Nation U.S. engagements.
spk_0 Please welcome Justin Richland. Thank you, Greg. Well, first of all, I want to say,
spk_0 thank you so much, Greg, for giving me the opportunity. I am so deeply humbled to be here
spk_0 with surrounded by so many teachers. I have some teachers to my right and some teachers to my left,
spk_0 some of whom I've met for the first time in person now. This is humbling, it doesn't even begin
spk_0 to say it. So it's wonderful to be here. I want to tell a story about another moment in
spk_0 which I learned something, and I'm always learning, but this was one of the first times I learned
spk_0 something about repatriation. And this is a moment that involves some of my work with the Hopi
spk_0 Cultural Preservation Office. I've been working with the Hopi Tribe for about 30 years now.
spk_0 And this was during my time in Chicago, where I was living for a while, and started, it was before I
spk_0 became an adjunct curator at the Field Museum, but it started that work. And when I was in Chicago,
spk_0 some of my Hopi friends were coming there. And by the way, I have, this is a story that I'm careful
spk_0 to get permission to speak here from my Hopi friends. And to the extent that I get it wrong,
spk_0 I take responsibility for that. So I had an opportunity, my Hopi friends were coming to Chicago
spk_0 to engage in a repatriation consultation with the Field Museum. Now, if you don't know what the
spk_0 Field Museum is, it is a natural history museum that has one of the largest collections of native
spk_0 North American material culture and ancestral remains persons in the world. Second, really only
spk_0 to the Smithsonian in terms of the size. And Hopi is no exception. Hopi, they have one of the
spk_0 largest collections of Hopi material culture there as well. And so the Hopi were visiting there.
spk_0 This was back in the early 2000s, mid-2000s. And I had an opportunity to come and observe and work
spk_0 with my friends as they were working with the collections there and looking at and attempting to
spk_0 identify potential opportunities for repatriation of their cultural patrimony. And when we went
spk_0 into the field, we went down into the repository, into the collections resource center, which is
spk_0 this enormous vault, basically, of row after row after row after row after row. I mean, it is something
spk_0 out of like a bizarre world kind of thing of shelves with material from all over the world and
spk_0 all over the US and an Indian country. And one thing you should know about the Field Museum is
spk_0 if you had gone there when I went there, you wouldn't expect this to be a place where change
spk_0 was possible. In short, the Field Museum in 1990, onward until around 2018 or so, was a place
spk_0 where that was sort of in a holding pattern. Their response to Nagpura was to just stop doing anything
spk_0 with regard to their Native North American hall. And it looked like it. It was in, it was, it looked
spk_0 like the 1950s had not moved on from the Native North American hall. And so, and it was a hard
spk_0 place to be. Anyway, back to my visit of these of my Hopi friends. They were downstairs and
spk_0 we made our way eventually past the rows that had names of different Native nations. And presumably,
spk_0 there are materials and their relatives were on these rows when we got to where Hopi would be
spk_0 alphabetical. And this is a cold room, dark, the lights would only turn on when you walk there.
spk_0 We got to where Hopi was, where the Hopi material was. And the first thing you notice is what you
spk_0 can't see. And I noticed that that the shelving that had been opened for the Hopi, where the Hopi
spk_0 materials were all covered in white sort of tarps, sheets. And some of it was behind locked,
spk_0 locked cases. And I became aware that actually the same team of Hopi cultural preservation officers
spk_0 had been there before and had requested that all this material be kept behind
spk_0 and not available for casual view, even by members of the curatorial staff and the collection staff
spk_0 there, on the idea that they had to get permission before they could even begin to handle or look at
spk_0 any of those materials, and that they had to work with the tribe in order to do that. That was
spk_0 interesting. And I thought, that's the start of maybe something as a first step. And they did it
spk_0 struck me as maybe the beginning of something, but again upstairs it was still the same old, same old.
spk_0 And then I saw something else. So that was what I didn't see. And then I saw something that was
spk_0 really remarkable to me. And where the placard would have said Hopi on the side of the thing was
spk_0 the name had been taken out. And instead there was hanging what the Hopi called a Bajo,
spk_0 which is a prayer feather. Now the Hopi, my Hopi friends tell me that you affix a prayer feather
spk_0 to the beings of the world that you owe a tremendous responsibility for their care and well-being.
spk_0 And you affix it to persons, places, all of these animated parts of your world,
spk_0 parts of a Hopi world, where there is an ongoing expectation. And you breathe your life
spk_0 and your hopes into that feather and then you place it. And I thought about that.
spk_0 What did it mean in this cold, dark place that there was a prayer feather there?
spk_0 And then I wondered, did the Field Museum accession, that is catalog that feather?
spk_0 And I asked and turned. I said, has this been accessioned here?
spk_0 And the collections managers said no it hadn't. And then I really thought about, well isn't this
spk_0 something? Quiet, but profound. And the way in which a Hopi obligation was placed
spk_0 a new in a place that had been for so long for closing Hopi opportunities and values to be
spk_0 presented. It was not Hopi as a kept culture. It was Hopi as an organizing principle,
spk_0 an organizing logic of how to care for the beings there. And it made me realize that
spk_0 with regard to repatriation's future, whatever else it might be, and let me assure you, it is not easy.
spk_0 It is tough. Even and to the little that I have seen and observed, it is profoundly
spk_0 challenging for all involved. But what futures exist for this have to do with the opportunities for
spk_0 new forms of relationship, new forms of mutual care and responsibly that don't, by the way, need
spk_0 to be reconciled. You don't need to have to make sense of how the relations and the obligations
spk_0 that Hopi owe to the friends that are there relate to the obligations that the museum has
spk_0 violated. What you need to do is create the space for honoring the possibility that there is
spk_0 a way forward. And so when I think about repatriation's futures and I think about the ways in
spk_0 which I can talk, and by the way, I'm not a native guy, I'm a Jewish kid from L.A., West L.A.
spk_0 So when I understand my role here amongst all my teachers and folks, I think of how can I sort of
spk_0 convey the import of this work to the heads of these institutions? How can I convey how critical it
spk_0 is? I think of that feather and I think of the prayers that we all can maybe create space for.
spk_0 Even in the darkest, coldest places of our history. Thank you.
spk_0 Thank you, Justin.
spk_0 Thank you. Next, Walter Ekohawk Pani is past president of the Pani Nation from 2020 to 2023,
spk_0 an attorney, tribal judge, legal scholar, and author. He represented tribal clients during the
spk_0 making of Nagpra 1990. He represented tribal clients during state and state repatriation laws
spk_0 in Kansas and Nebraska, and he represented the Pani Nation in implementing those laws.
spk_0 Today he is chair of the board of directors for the Association of Tribal Archives,
spk_0 Libraries, and Museums, an appellate judge for the Marongo Band of Mission Indians, California,
spk_0 and a member American Academy of Arts and Sciences 2023 for his public policy work.
spk_0 And I should also add a long time attorney at the Native American Rights Fund,
spk_0 and when I was three years at University of Colorado, a student-grade admiration of all the things
spk_0 he and his colleagues were able to get done concerning Native American religious freedoms,
spk_0 land rights, and so forth, that work continues. It's even gone international, powerful ways.
spk_0 So it's just a tremendous honor to have president Ekohawk with us.
spk_0 Please welcome him.
spk_0 Gee, I can't wait to meet him.
spk_0 Thank you, Greg, and good evening to everyone.
spk_0 I'm very glad to be here at the University to be a part of this workshop as under
spk_0 Professor Johnson's leadership in partnership with the tribal people here are examining the
spk_0 state of affairs as far as Nagprah, or the Native American Graves in Protection Repatriation Act,
spk_0 is concerned. You know, it's very ironic that there's probably more dead Indians here on campus
spk_0 than there's live Indians, and despite the fact that this national repatriation law was passed
spk_0 in 1990, 35 years ago. So there's a lot of repatriation work that really, really needs to be
spk_0 done here. So I'm glad to be a part of the workshop today and tomorrow. And I'm very optimistic about
spk_0 what the future holds as the university turns its attention to moving on in terms of implementing
spk_0 this national law. As mentioned, way back when I was a young man, I had the opportunity to
spk_0 represent tribal clients during the making of the Nagprah statute as well as a couple of state laws
spk_0 as well. And then to go on to implement them for my own tribe, the Pawnee tribe, which is
spk_0 indigenous to the central plains of North America. And I'm just very glad to see that this
spk_0 Nagprah law that lays down a national policy and national mandates to address this historical
spk_0 injustice committed against the native tribes in the United States by the 1990s, every Indian tribe in the country
spk_0 and Native American community had been affected by grave robbing and the carrying away of their
spk_0 dead, their funeral objects, also sacred objects and objects of cultural patrimony,
spk_0 carted off to museums around the country. And so this was a human rights law, this Nagprah
spk_0 law, a senator in a way on the floor of the Senate during the passage of Nagprah said this is a human
spk_0 rights statute. And so now we sit here 35 years later and many colleges and federal agencies and
spk_0 museums have fully complied with the mandates, repatriation mandates of this law. Other universities
spk_0 have not yet done so and there's been a lot of foot dragging over the decades and so
spk_0 there's a new set of Nagprah federal regulations that were promulgated last year.
spk_0 I think designed to streamline the implementation of Nagprah and really strengthening,
spk_0 trying to get at the foot traggers I guess you could say to grant the tribes a seat at the table
spk_0 and during the repatriation process to require their free prior and informed consent now before
spk_0 universities study these remains, put them on display and otherwise tamper with them,
spk_0 they need tribal consent now to do that under these federal regulations.
spk_0 So I know that in large measure this Nagprah statute addressed a national deeply ingrained human
spk_0 rights problem of a denial of equal protection of the laws that protect our cemeteries, our human
spk_0 remains, the rights of the next of kin were disregarded and this was as I mentioned earlier a national
spk_0 problem and whenever you have a deeply ingrained problem of that nature it stands to reason that
spk_0 it's going to take a long time to implement statutes that try to rectify these human right
spk_0 problems. You look at the civil rights laws of the 1960s are still being implemented today
spk_0 so it stands to reason that the Nagprah law is still being implemented today 35 years later.
spk_0 All of the tribes that I'm aware of have Nagprah offices as part of their tribal governments
spk_0 that work day in and day out to continue implementing this federal statute.
spk_0 And we have also gone beyond the Nagprah legislation internationally, the UN declaration
spk_0 on the rights of indigenous peoples has listed repatriation of human remains and funerary objects
spk_0 as one of the human rights of indigenous peoples and it calls upon each nation to create
spk_0 effective mechanisms created in consultation with native people to repatriate these dead
spk_0 back to their communities of origin. So the work that's being done is actually human rights work
spk_0 in the eyes of the United Nations under international norms. A human right is the kind of a right
spk_0 that no nation can take away. It comes to us from a higher source and it's one of the strongest
spk_0 rights known to the human race is human human rights and so this matter is a human rights matter.
spk_0 Other institutions have also entered into a new era as well with regard to the ethical return
spk_0 of human remains that goes above and beyond the requirements of Nagprah to return even though a
spk_0 museum or a college may have legal title to these dead people there is a national
spk_0 international movement among museums now led by the Smithsonian Institution here in the US
spk_0 of returning remains and funerary objects purely for ethical reasons alone and so that's
spk_0 opened a whole new era of entering into the ethical era as far as repatriation.
spk_0 And so with these developments in the law the human rights law the ethical return movement of
spk_0 museums around the world I think that this opens a new vista here in Santa Barbara for the university
spk_0 in partnership with the local indigenous peoples tribal nations here in California
spk_0 to take some big steps to not only come into full compliance with the legal mandates of our national law
spk_0 here but also to enter into the human rights era to see repatriation as a human right and also as
spk_0 an ethical matter to do simply because it's the right thing to do. Thank you President Eccahod.
spk_0 Okay so one of the things about working with people and becoming friends with them over the
spk_0 better part of a quarter century is that sometimes they don't follow instructions I asked our guests
spk_0 for to write their own introductions and here is Edward Haleiou's will begin with his words.
spk_0 He is a repatriation practitioner and advocate. He is an example of a stupid person who worked hard
spk_0 to accomplish much to the surprise of his parents and the shock of his family and friends.
spk_0 He also happens to be the chair of the federal Nagbra Review Committee and to my mind the single
spk_0 most successful repatriation activist and advocate in the US context and arguably among leaders
spk_0 in the global context. He gets the work done not only for his home community in Hawaii but on behalf
spk_0 of others and in collaboration with others and I stand in great admiration of the work you've
spk_0 done for so many years and what you've taught me it's a great honor to have you here so Mahalo.
spk_0 I would like to meet him too.
spk_0 I don't care what anyone tells you I was well just favorite lock clerk at the Native American rights
spk_0 farm. That's my story I'm sticking to it.
spk_0 Quote, when no longer when you no longer hear the word repatriation you will know that there's peace
spk_0 in the world. These are the words of Neil Carter and Aborigini Elder from the Kimberly's.
spk_0 What is the future of repatriation you ask? My answer is achieved peace.
spk_0 We OEV Native Hawaiians have done much in the area of repatriation on local national and international
spk_0 levels completing 162 confirmed cases starting in 1990 until now. We have done so through our
spk_0 organization Hui Maalama Inakupuna Ohavaine which we dissolved in 2015 and now through its
spk_0 successor organization Hui Iwi Cuomo of which I am the executive director.
spk_0 I acknowledge the Kaumaha, the spiritual, emotional, mental and physical anguish of learning each
spk_0 time over a period of 35 years of the theft and desecration of our ancestors. Their finery
spk_0 possessions, sacred objects and cultural patrimony given this high level of anguish is surprising
spk_0 that we Hawaiians still survive. In April 2025 we will engage in travel for restitution purposes
spk_0 and to lay the foundation for two future repatriations. These efforts will be epic.
spk_0 I will lead the team to Europe to visit Berlin Germany to finalize the return of two Hawaiian
spk_0 goddesses by negotiating the final details of an ethical return shared stewardship agreement
spk_0 with the German Museum Association. If time permits we'll visit Paris France to consult with
spk_0 I don't speak French. The Museum National, the History, Natural to finalize the return of
spk_0 30 of our ancestors under the fairly recently enacted French legislation championed by Prime Minister
spk_0 Macron. We will then fly to Belfast, Northern Ireland to repatriate their remains of two ancestors
spk_0 from the Ulster Museum before preparing to return to the United States. Our team will then
spk_0 fly to Boston, Massachusetts to conduct a repatriation ceremony from the Harvard P body museum
spk_0 of a Nakuo Hulu or Feather God image belonging to the warrior chief Keiko Kalani who was killed
spk_0 at the Battle of Kourmau. In 1819 a second team of 15 Native Hawaiians will meet us in Cambridge
spk_0 including two of my children who will bear witness to this historic return. We will then fly the
spk_0 Washington DC to take possession of a full-length Feather cloak belonging to this same chief
spk_0 Keiko Kalani from the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History. Then we will return home
spk_0 triumphantly with our ancestors bones and both a God and Feather cloak of Chief Keiko Kalani.
spk_0 The last repatriation we did in November 2024 was from the University of Tokyo in Japan.
spk_0 It was a grueling experience given the intellectual savagery of the museum staff.
spk_0 Repersivir it because we believe it is never a matter of whether our ancestors come home.
spk_0 The only question is when. This represented the first repatriation from Japan and helped us to
spk_0 promote shared humanity in that region of the world. It allowed us to continue to restore our
spk_0 ancestral foundation and contemplation of the restoration of our Hawaiian kingdom. I will let you
spk_0 in a little secret. Hawaii is not in the United States. The United States is in Hawaii.
spk_0 We must undertake our repatriation work without fear or hesitation. Our Queen Lidia Kamakaeha
spk_0 Liliwokalani, the last ruling monarch of the Hawaiian kingdom whose lawful government was
spk_0 unlawfully overthrown by agents of the United States in 1893 stated quote,
spk_0 I could not turn back the time for the political change but there is still time to save our
spk_0 heritage. You must remember it never ceased to act because you fear you may fail. The way to lose
spk_0 any earthly kingdom is to be inflexible, intolerant and prejudicial. Another way is to be too flexible,
spk_0 tolerant of too many wrongs and without judgment at all. It is a razor's edge. It is the width of a
spk_0 blade of pili grass. In addition, a fictional character once said that,
spk_0 fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
spk_0 I find knowledge from where it comes from even in the Star Wars saga. I share with you the
spk_0 mortal words of Gladys Kamakaeha Kuala Kalani, I know a brand who says quote, in education not
spk_0 anger resides our future. In education not ignorance resides our hope. In education not fear resides
spk_0 justice. The future is now, teach the next generation, don't complain that your problems aren't
spk_0 being solved. For us, repatriation is a responsibility as much as it is a right.
spk_0 Behave responsibly and doodly from which privilege flows. Stop the stupidity of social media
spk_0 likes. You're only performing responsibly for the ancestors, not the masses. I teach seven
spk_0 alaqa'i or advanced repatriation practitioners, all whom are of Hawaiian ancestry, fluent Hawaiian
spk_0 language speakers, IT bad asses, and all youthful. I teach them ceremonial protocol behavior and
spk_0 advocacy practices. I teach them to harness their hunting skills, to locate the targets and then
spk_0 advocate for their return. I have a warning from museums and individuals who house our ancestors.
spk_0 We will find you and then when we do, winter is coming. Of course, yes. Of course what I cannot
spk_0 teach alaqa'i is courage and commitment, those I guess from their ancestors. I teach them how
spk_0 to communicate with their kupuna, to ask them for all the tools necessary to be responsible to them
spk_0 and thereby to better understand who we are as Hawaiians. I humaika ike, I humaika i kaika,
spk_0 I humaika i ka mai, I humaika maupo popo pono, I humaika ike pa pa alua, I humaika mana.
spk_0 Grant us knowledge, strength, intelligence, righteous understanding, spiritual communication,
spk_0 the ability to talk directly with our ancestors and most of all grant us spiritual power.
spk_0 It is critical that we homize normalized, normalized, our traditional spiritual practices as an
spk_0 affirmative response to religious savagery of Christians who have forsaken the humble teachings
spk_0 of Christ in favor of their replacement God known popularly as money. I close with the
spk_0 mortar words of Lord William Eurot Gladstone, a 19th century statement, statesman who said,
spk_0 quote, show me the manner in which a nation our community cares for its dead and I will measure
spk_0 with mathematical exactness, the tender sympathies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land
spk_0 and their loyalty to high ideals. Ola Naivy, the bones to live.
spk_0 Mahalo, hallelujah, loha.
spk_0 Okay, next we have Dali Kaikon, and she is from the loha naga tribe in Nagaland, India.
spk_0 She is professor of anthropology and director of the Center for South Asian Studies at the
spk_0 University of California Santa Cruz, a position she has recently taken. So welcome back home,
spk_0 Dali, or back to your now home after some years away.
spk_0 She serves as a member of Restore and Decolonize, a community-based research initiative of the
spk_0 forum for Naga reconciliation. They work to repatriate Naga ancestral human remains to the
spk_0 foundation of the Naga community. I have 10 minutes, so thank you so much for giving me this time.
spk_0 And I think I'm amongst really honored elders, colleagues, and I want to take this opportunity
spk_0 to honor Edward. I think there are a few people in the world who can claim him to be a teacher
spk_0 because of the time and commitment that he has given to other Indigenous peoples outside of
spk_0 this continent and the Naga people are one of them. To give you all a context of why I'm standing here
spk_0 among our Indigenous colleagues and elders from the North American continent, I am a Naga and I come
spk_0 from the Eastern Himalayas. And I believe that the repatriation process is a journey. And as you hear
spk_0 about centuries of hard work that's gone in here on this land and the repatriation journey,
spk_0 I come here with an education, I think with an exposure that I want to give you all about
spk_0 prayer, the repatriation process, and what kind of doors it has opened to other Indigenous peoples
spk_0 around the world. The Naga people are around two million of us and we are a transnational
spk_0 community. We live in north eastern region of India, which is part of the Eastern Himalayas and
spk_0 also in the north western part of Burma, Myanmar. And the repatriation journey for us began around
spk_0 2020 when the Petriverse Museum started a process of ethical review and evaluation. And I would say
spk_0 that such processes do not come out of nowhere. It comes out of centuries and decades of work that
spk_0 your elders and elders and teachers like Edward has put in. And so I honor you all here in this room
spk_0 to give you a context of where we come from. This is a map that I want to show you all.
spk_0 And since 2020, look at the Naga repatriation process as a sampling. And sometimes I fear
spk_0 the process that we have opened for the future generation. And I want to stick to this term,
spk_0 the future of repatriation. It is a door once you open as Indigenous peoples, as allies,
spk_0 you cannot close it anymore because that's when issues of sovereignty, self-determination, the land,
spk_0 and also for Indigenous communities. This association, intergenerational trauma,
spk_0 ongoing issues of colonization comes in. Repatriation is really hard for Indigenous communities like
spk_0 Naga people because this is where we are also learning the differences and the conflicts that we
spk_0 have within community that is yet to be resolved. We were very fortunate to have an encounter
spk_0 with the return reconciled and renewed team of which I think, the team that is online and Edward
spk_0 are members and very early on, their solidarity and their generosity overwhelmed us.
spk_0 It was during the time of COVID and they had time, generosity and love for Naga people.
spk_0 They zoomed in and they gave us numerous workshops on how to deal with it. And one of the primary things
spk_0 that Edward told us that we put it in our hearts was be mindful of the spiritual realm. Darkness
spk_0 will come, you all will start to fight, you all will have a rage that surfaces watch for that,
spk_0 do not let the enemy win. The Naga people were converted to Christianity by American Baptist
spk_0 missions in the mid 19th century. So the process of repatriation is also an ongoing conversation
spk_0 and debate between the church, 97th person of Naga's who live in India are American Baptists.
spk_0 So this land actually is connected to the story that I'm telling you all about for the churches
spk_0 what kind of role they begin to play. A lot of my friends studied theology in India and they have
spk_0 come all the way across the oceans over the decades to be trained here on your soil in North America.
spk_0 They study theology and they go back to the Naga homeland, they go back around the world. So there
spk_0 is a deep connection in terms of the pedagogy and how is it that we teach what we teach.
spk_0 One of the things that I want to quickly show you all, I have five, I'm giving five minutes
spk_0 aside for a video that I want to show you. It is not a perfect video but I thought that it's important
spk_0 that you that you see how the process started. Before the video I want to show you the recover,
spk_0 restore and decolonize and this was inspired by the return reconciled and renew elders who told us
spk_0 early on make sure that you archive it, make sure you carry the young ones with you,
spk_0 make sure you go back to community, make sure that this is not a top-down approach.
spk_0 Edward clearly told us do not let the museums and people external to the process bully you all.
spk_0 Have a voice. The process of repatriation is soon new for the Naga people that I standing here in
spk_0 front of you give the first repatriation speech among the Naga people in the Naga homeland.
spk_0 More than the elders, let me tell you this, my beloved friends, colleagues and indigenous
spk_0 colleagues and friends, it was the young people who were set on fire. They had no idea that there
spk_0 was a process like that around the world. This has started in the last five years, a conversation
spk_0 about art, about poetry after the first speech that I gave in the Naga homeland, which is actually
spk_0 part of this website. You can go and connect with it later and I show this to you not to show for
spk_0 the Naga people are doing but as part of education we are only five years old and Edward I hold
spk_0 what you told us very dearly that wait for it is going to take decades for the journey.
spk_0 One of the processes that we began to do was put everything that we do online so that the young
spk_0 people from across the Naga homeland can have a sense. This is us and we take inspiration from
spk_0 RRR and then they come and they click this and in the process of the action that they do they know
spk_0 what this is. We came up with our logo to make sure that there is a process, indigenous process of
spk_0 of communication and dialogue. We put everything here and the Naga people because we are a transnational
spk_0 people live both in Myanmar and in India so you can imagine the number of languages we speak as a
spk_0 Naga nation around 44. So we began the process of translating the repatriation manifesto of the
spk_0 Naga people into different languages. This is still an ongoing process and we are still doing it.
spk_0 Every couple of months we go to the villages, to the schools, to the communities including church
spk_0 members, the village councils and we talk to them about what is happening. All the pictures are
spk_0 there, the events are there and one of the things that we do is also education for school students.
spk_0 So my colleague Dr. Orkato Nglongkamer who is a professor at the University of Edinburgh and
spk_0 a fellow Naga came up with a comic book and they have started using these comic books in schools
spk_0 so that they have a process. We are all figures in this comic book to actually talk to them about
spk_0 what is repatriation. I think in the North American context it's a very old established process
spk_0 and we look up to you all in the Naga context. It is a very new process that we have to go and
spk_0 tell and define the meaning of repatriation and for us we thought about it and the repatriation
spk_0 process has to be a Naga process as to be our process in a way. So as you look at the website
spk_0 you can have a sense of what we have been doing. One of the things that I quickly wanted to devote my
spk_0 time here as the final slide is to show this to you and also talk a little maybe one minute
spk_0 about the Australian journey. In 2023 we went to Australia at the delegation of 16 of us. We got a
spk_0 grant from the University of Melbourne working on repatriation from our indigenous colleagues and
spk_0 we went there and we spoke and we shared and we had dialogues and round tables with our indigenous
spk_0 colleagues and we learned a lot from them and I hope that in the future through our elders and
spk_0 our colleagues who are native indigenous to the land we have an opportunity to come and learn
spk_0 about your land and learn about your repatriation process. I'm holding Indian Passport and it's
spk_0 very difficult to get a US visa. We wait sometimes for one or two years and it's still impossible
spk_0 to get it. One of my wish is that we have an online a digital platform where there is an indigenous
spk_0 network of education conversations going on. To end this what I'm going to do is just play a short
spk_0 video for you also that you can have a sense of how the process started and what the remains look
spk_0 like. The Pitrivers Museum has about 6400 Naga artifacts including human remains and it holds
spk_0 the largest collection Naga collection in the world and we are the first indigenous communities
spk_0 our community in South Asia to begin work on repatriation. We are compared to the giants who
spk_0 sit at this table compared to our teacher Edward we are a sapling but we can definitely become
spk_0 an oak tree one day.
spk_0 The Pitrivers Museum was founded in 1884 when General Pitrivers donated his collections of about
spk_0 27,000 objects to the University of Oxford. Now the collections have grown to 600,700,000 objects.
spk_0 So since 2006 the University of Oxford has processes in place around the return of human remains
spk_0 because some of the collections that were gathered were taken either without the consent of
spk_0 communities or they were human remains ancestral remains that should never have been put on display.
spk_0 So in July 2020 we took the human remains off display from many different parts of the world.
spk_0 When we removed the objects from display we took off about 120 human remains in total and that
spk_0 was in response to an ethical review of the collections and the displays both in terms of the objects
spk_0 that were on display and also terms and references on labels that were problematic. We got a small
spk_0 team of people together from the Glam packing team so we documented them properly for the originating
spk_0 community and then they were all packed in acid-free boxes using acid-free tissue and the boxes
spk_0 are currently stored at an offsite storage location.
spk_0 Naga human remains have come into the museum since the museum was founded in 1884.
spk_0 Most of the Naga human remains however were collected by two colonial administrators,
spk_0 Hutton and Mills and they collected enormous collections for the museum but there are 21 different
spk_0 sources so 21 different people gave Naga human remains to the museum.
spk_0 So this is the Naga display and I think this case gives you a really good overview of the types
spk_0 of objects within the Naga collections here at the Pit Rivers. We've removed human remains from
spk_0 the displays but there will still be on display objects that have elements of human remains such as
spk_0 bone or hair so I think this object may contain some human hair and that is more work that we need
spk_0 to do and more investigation. We as a museum now are starting to work with communities to
spk_0 wares the redress to wares the return of some of these objects. I would like to apologize to the
spk_0 Naga community for not having reached out earlier. We have these ancestral remains. We know that
spk_0 Naga communities will be the ones who know best how to take care of these Naga remains. Who
spk_0 might want them back? So that is why now we are reaching out to see what kind of forms of redress
spk_0 we might find together. I am deeply invested in this project of bringing back Naga ancestral
spk_0 remains to the Naga homeland and as part of the process I have been working in order to understand
spk_0 not only the collection but also how might we engage with different Naga communities.
spk_0 What we are trying to do is address a very central issue here and that is the
spk_0 unfinished business of colonization that a lot of indigenous communities across the world
spk_0 are having to deal with. We are looking at for the moment the repatriation, the reparation and the
spk_0 process of healing in addressing and in bringing back our ancestral human remains.
spk_0 This kind of current work is really part of a shift in more of the museums around the world.
spk_0 That's happening where museums are very conscious that some of these objects were taken as part
spk_0 of a colonial legacy. They were part of a very violent past and to do that work of redress
spk_0 of societal healing is really what museums are spending a lot more time on and thinking about
spk_0 how can we do this.
spk_0 You've been listening to a podcast by University of California Television.
spk_0 For more information about this program or UCTV visit us online at uctv.tv