Technology
OpenAI’s Sora 2: Future of Media or AI SLOPOCALYPSE??
In this episode of 'AI for Humans', hosts Gavin and Kevin dive into the explosive launch of OpenAI's Sora 2, exploring its groundbreaking features and implications for the future of med...
OpenAI’s Sora 2: Future of Media or AI SLOPOCALYPSE??
Technology •
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Interactive Transcript
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Sora 2 has blown up the internet and Sam Altman has blown up our student.
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Welcome to...
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Gavin, I'm sorry, a spoiler that did not actually happen. Just like I didn't have a romantic evening skate with a giant fish.
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Nor did I vape, dark, chowder.
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Nor did I get arrested for hawking free television sets.
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That is all your fault, Kevin, for making your cameo available on Sora.
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And sorry, Gavin, I'm now trending on Chinese sneaker talk.
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Nihao, Kevin, we'll show you how the new cameo feature is changing the way you could interact with your friends and AI.
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We'll also cover the thorny IP issues, such as Cartman, Pokemon, and all sorts of other not exactly
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open AI-owned intellectual property that people are doing, well, all sorts of strange stuff with.
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Summer.
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Oh, it's glowing!
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That's not normal, man.
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We might have cut the crabby patty a little too far.
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Three best friends.
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Run for your friends.
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My clarinet's not built for cardio!
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Are about to get deep fried.
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Plus, hey, Gavin.
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Yeah?
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Our little startup is out in the world, buddy.
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That's right.
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We're gonna tell you how Anne then came to be, what you can do with it,
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and also how we made this very weird launch trailer way faster than anything else we've ever made with AI.
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We're building Anne then, the future of interactive entertainment.
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I'm sorry, are we in the cluely launch video?
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No, Kevin, this is the Anne then launch video.
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Fun fact, we did not use Sora to, but we'll show you how we made it,
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and in the future, we probably will use Sora to.
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All that and more on...
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I'm for humans!
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Oh, whoa!
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Are those kittens?
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Why are they're kittens?
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The ceiling's coming down to the sparks!
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This is insane.
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I think the show's over.
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Yeah, best intro ever, though.
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They are gonna take our jobs, huh?
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Welcome, everybody, to AI for Humans,
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you're weekly guides of the world of AI.
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In this week, Kevin, there is one story dominating everything,
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and we are going to talk so much about it.
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Sora, too, is out.
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This is open AI.
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Oh, whoa.
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Yes, it is crazy.
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It's so crazy.
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It's what's...
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Well, we've got to get into so much about this.
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I can't even speak about it.
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But it is a transformative moment,
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a kind of like when VO3 first came out,
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kind of like other moments.
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I would say that if anything, it's like,
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4-O image genit has that much of an impact.
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Let us just first say what this is, what it's doing,
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and then we will get into what I believe are like
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serious cultural implications of what this can do
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and where it's going and how it's distributed.
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But first, Kevin, let us figure out the very basics.
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What are the very basics here?
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I don't know, Gavin.
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I'm watching a figure skater with a cat on her head.
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Do spins on the ice.
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I can't pay attention to it.
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I know, okay, Sora, people...
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Open AI had their video, their generative video model.
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Feels like forever ago.
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They were first really to the scene with a model
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that had people going, wait a minute,
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this is very different.
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This feels amazing.
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And then they became an also ran for the longest time,
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where company after company were releasing these models.
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Everybody's like, hey, Sora, what's going on?
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You don't do audio.
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There's no character consistency.
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The physics, like the physical understanding of the world
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is completely off.
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And I don't want to say that they were written off
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because Sora had an active community.
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But I think it paled in comparison to the,
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let's say the vibes or the hype
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that pretty much every other company was getting one way.
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Google especially the older one.
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I say especially V03.
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When V03 came out, there was an argument that like,
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oh, Sora has kind of gone on the back burner
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for opening AI that don't care.
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So yes, this is Sora 2.
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And just to be clear, I looked up the date,
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the first drop of Sora.
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Before anybody got to use it,
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was February 14th of 2024.
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We were talking about 18 months ago.
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Now, when it came out into the world,
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Sora 1 was pretty disappointing
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versus what we saw in those clips.
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And I think that was kind of gets what you're talking about.
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But here we are, Sora 2.
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To your point, this is like V03.
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When you get clips, you get sound on them.
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And the sound can be pretty good.
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There's clips of people singing.
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There's really interesting clips of archival footage
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that we will get into that sound like archival footage.
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Gavin, there's fully licensed music that comes out of the machine.
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Even if you don't ask for it, what's up?
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Strange your things, Thane.
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We'll get into that as I get to.
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The other thing to point it out here is the physics.
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The physics are way better.
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And this does speak to, if you look at the OpenAI live stream
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they did with Bill Peoples and other people who have worked on Sora 2,
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they have talked a long time about how this is
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another one of those world sims.
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And it's the same sort of thing that V03 set up.
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And actually, a really interesting thing
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does the side note that V03 dropped last week
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was a paper about the idea that these world sims
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and these video models might actually have emergent physics
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with them that they didn't program in.
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And this is another example of that.
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So anyway, long story short, very good video generation.
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You get 10 seconds.
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The resolution on the clips that come out normally are pretty low res.
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But the, you know, I think it doesn't matter that much right now.
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I'm sure we will get options to do higher res.
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But Kevin, the biggest thing here
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and this is kind of the secret sauce, I think,
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is this cameo feature, which we just have to talk about what this means
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and how it changes the idea of AI video.
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Yeah, so this is one, again,
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if you're on the audio version of this podcast only,
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I implore you to check out the YouTube of this week's
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because it's very visual heavy.
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I'll do my best to describe things as we go.
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But listen to the whole thing.
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Also, don't give up right now.
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There's lots of good audio content for you
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if you're listening.
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So keep listening and then go watch the YouTube.
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Don't give up.
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Strive to complete this one.
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We know it can be a slog,
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but this is your audible ultra marathon.
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Get to the end.
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We're like, rucking for your ears.
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It's twofold, right?
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So Sora, we cannot overstate how good the video model is.
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Right?
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It is very, very, very state of the arm.
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It is state of the arm.
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It is state of the arm.
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You can emulate.
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It's clear that this thing was trained on everything
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from which long video game plays to YouTube tutorials,
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to 80s, infomercials,
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to police GoPro and body cam footage.
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This thing can emulate pretty much every style.
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You can throw at it.
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It does it with sound.
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It does it with voice.
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It does it with the music.
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Just as Gavin mentioned.
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But the second thing is, as you said, this cameo feature,
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but it is a social network.
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Yes.
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And we have talked on this show
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as recently as I think two weeks ago, Gavin,
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we're like, nobody wants this.
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Nobody needs another social network.
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Just an AI social network.
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But the difference maker is, in fact,
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this cameo feature.
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So, Sora, too, if you have access to it right now,
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at the time of this recording,
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it's still invite only.
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So make sure you follow AI for humans,
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or a X handle,
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because we'll be giving out an invite.
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I'm going to give one out, Gavin.
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Oh, you are.
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I don't presently have one to give out,
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but I'm going to give one out.
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So you've got to follow for that.
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But it's invite only if you get in
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and you activate Sora, too.
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You see a feed of just like a tick-tockish
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or Instagram-real-style feed of all these generated videos.
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You can one-tap remix
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to make your own version of that video,
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which is very powerful.
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It is increasing time to meme.
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So there's the remix,
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and then very quickly there's cameo,
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which we'll have a larger discussion on.
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But it allows you to basically make an avatar
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of yourself painlessly,
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I mean, effortlessly.
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And then you can share it
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with the whole social network.
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And now you're playing with fire, as they would say.
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When you load Sora,
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you may notice that when you go to create a video,
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it's autosuggest some cameos for you.
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These are other personalities,
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other real human beings
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that have given up their likeness
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or basically given you permission to toy with them.
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When you create an avatar,
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you get a selfie from your camera.
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Basically, this is within the iOS app.
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And it will ask you to usually recite a series of numbers,
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three numbers.
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And then you'll look up, down, left to right.
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I'm not going to recite numbers here just in case,
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and I'm not going to do those head movements
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because you never know, Gavin.
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You never know.
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But near instantly,
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I mean, maybe two minutes of processing time.
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So fast.
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Uploads your footage to the cloud,
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verifies that you're you.
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It will also verify if you're wearing clothing, Gavin.
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Don't ask how I know this,
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but it does do that.
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And then when it's done,
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you have full control over,
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do you want your cameo,
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your personal avatar to just be for you,
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for your friends,
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or to the world at large?
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And because you and I are both sickos,
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I think the my first choice was everyone,
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and I think the same thing for you,
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which we'll get into a second.
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The other thing I want to mention there is,
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what is so genius about this feature in the app
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is that when you add somebody,
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it's literally like we're used to now
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on all social networks,
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when you add somebody in a generation of a video,
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it's it pulls that person's thing in.
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Now, I do want to say,
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like this feature we have seen in other places before,
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but it has always been a situation of like you upload a photo,
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and then you have to do all this other stuff.
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And also what's fascinating about this is,
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by creating a cameo,
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you are giving your implicit permission
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to the people that you say can do this,
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so they don't have to worry about the rights
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of what this person is.
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So that is why we are seeing populations
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of way more footage of real people in this stuff
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than we ever have before.
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And like that is like mind-blowingly smart,
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first of all, as a idea for a thing to put into a network like this,
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because it will bring people in,
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it will bring friends in,
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it will bring friend groups in.
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But also, it really avoids some of the thorny issues
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about like personality and like whether or not
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they have the rights to use my footage.
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Because if you've done it,
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and getting we both have it,
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I think you and I are not like, you know,
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clearly there's privacy things
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that a lot of people will never want to do this for.
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But once you've done it,
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it opens the door to allowing you to be part of this weird multiverse.
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We had talked maybe a year and a half,
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probably two years ago in this podcast about a weird future
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where kids will be hanging around on a Roblox Discord,
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Disney, Comcast, Core server,
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because it'll all be one company.
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And they'll say, well, what should we do tonight?
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And they'll hallucinate a journey together.
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And we all, this is the character that I want to play.
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And this is what I want to play.
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And they will just like toys in a sandbox,
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jam things together and make magic.
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And this is like the first feeling of that future
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that I'm having now as I scroll a feed
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and see others playing with me like I'm a doll in their dollhouse.
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Well, I think speaking of that,
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there is actually somebody who made a video of you
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as a ventrull, a ventrull who has done me that I hold
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a language from show here.
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I want to say one thing that's really interesting
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to me about this.
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In fact, maybe Kevin played this,
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I made this one pretty early.
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This was like one of my first cameo examples.
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There's not a perfect one,
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but played the one of me singing.
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So this is me uploading my face
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and I prompted it with a pretty simple prompt
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which you'll get when it comes across here.
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For.
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For.
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Darling, I'm calling to you.
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For.
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For.
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You're the one I can't lose.
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They found me.
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So first of all, your ability to sing while you're not.
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I'm moving your mouth and you're looking away from the mic.
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It's unprecedented.
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But so when you look at that video,
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there's all these things that we've talked about before,
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Laura's or we've talked about like,
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uploading a,
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playing has like an image gen upload,
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but like that part of it is very good, right?
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That part of the actual looking at my face,
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the consistency, it wasn't a lot to do that,
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but because they've got all these different angles
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in my face, they kind of figure out where it goes.
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But then Kevin, I wanted to talk about the things
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that have happened with you because we teased this
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in the intro a little bit,
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but because you're more well known than I am,
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you have some pretty significant discords that you travel in
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where people like to mess around with you.
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You have become like a figure,
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not at the same level that Sam is,
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which we'll get to,
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Sam Alman has become like the face of this,
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but you have become a figure in like,
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so are a world.
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Tell us a little bit about how this felt
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and what it was like.
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I'm still processing how it feels because it's so new.
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I'm no stranger to, even in my teen years,
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and then I started at G4 when I was like 18
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and started getting meamed there.
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Like I'm no stranger to like having Photoshop's released
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or fan fiction, you know?
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And I'm no stranger to having people like do the darkest side
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of the internet things to me and with me
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or because they have a gripe with me, whatever, right?
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I've experienced that side.
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Yeah.
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This is a hyper acceleration of thus far, 99% the best side of it.
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Right?
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But it's also early days.
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And so that's why I'm kind of like,
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like, reserving my judgment.
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The last two nights, I will say like, I've been in bed
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and April's next to me and I'm scrolling through
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what feels like a TV network of you, of me, right?
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Made by others and I will say lovingly crafted by others
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and we can get to some of like my vape obsession
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which is happening now.
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Sure.
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My legal troubles, the weird fan fiction of you and I.
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There's some stuff going on there,
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but it is weird of like at night I'm scrolling
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this bizarre feed of things while others are playing with me
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and then I'm seeing like, oh, that person's on the platform now
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because suddenly I'm having ramen noodles
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with another Twitch streamer.
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And now I'm over here playing pickleball
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with this other person.
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It's like as people are getting in and making their cameos,
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I'm starting to get mashed up with them.
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Did you, what I want to know about is the Chinese stuff.
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Like are there people in your network who speak Chinese
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or is that just like a completely random thing
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that like somehow people in China are now on
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and that they started making you do stuff in Chinese?
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Yeah, I'm still trying to figure that portion out
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because there's a lot of Polish car reviews,
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like a lot of them where I'm speaking in Polish
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and talking about the BMW.
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Yes.
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There's a lot of Chinese tourism videos
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where I'm like hanging out with school children
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or I'm selling sneakers or I'm walking through areas
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of China and doing like travel vlogs.
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They are by accounts that have like zero followers
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and zero public anything,
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but they're full Chinese prompts that are going in there.
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And I think what happened is that,
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despite most of the internet turning on me
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for various reasons over the years,
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there's still a cream team discord out there, Gavin,
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which I know we don't talk about too much,
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but these little cremys got a hold on my cameo
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and started using me in a bunch of stuff.
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And I think it might have popped me into
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an auto-suggested place.
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Oh, interesting.
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Because when you use the app by default,
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like initially I launched it with Sam Altman,
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which we'll talk about,
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I just seen was in there at least for me.
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And that guy, Gabriel,
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Gabriel, who's like everywhere, Gabriel is in the company,
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I research her with the blonde hair.
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If you've seen a guy with the white hair,
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it's like that's another guy.
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Yeah, so I think I might have popped into something there
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because I don't have like an insane amount of followers,
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but again, a weird thing.
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You can see all of the cameos that you're in, right?
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And you can see the cameos that I'm in by clicking.
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I can also see all the trapped cameos of me.
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Only I can see those.
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And I'm telling you,
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there is a lot of bizarre content being made.
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Like someone is using me to do,
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I think like a daily affirmation TikTok,
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where I'm like just giving positivity.
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Someone else is using me to do recipe vlogging.
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And there's a lot of that.
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So it's like I'm being used and utilized in all these ways.
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I am getting zero pennies for it,
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which is interesting.
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I would love to know.
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That's yeah, we should do it very quickly.
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Couple of things to talk about.
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The idea that like they do believe
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this is a business model place, right?
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Like obviously TikTok is a massive business
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and scrolling is an easy place to put ads.
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So that's something to think about.
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The other thing I do wanna talk about before we go on
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from like how this cameos was used is that like Sam Altman
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has now changed from just being like the face of open AI,
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which was one thing.
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He is now like, somebody referred to him as almost like
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my space Tom now.
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And that's kind of what it feels like,
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but he literally is the face of this thing.
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And what's interesting to me is there's gonna be a lot
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of people come into this and you'll open it up.
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And like when you scroll through like it does have an algorithm
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that now tries to figure out what you wanted, what you want.
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But like Sam shows up in a bunch of these, right?
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Like an end, you know what I mean?
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So many of them.
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He said himself, he said it is way less strange
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to watch a feed full of memes of yourself
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than I thought it would be not sure what to make of this.
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But play this one, this give it a toilet one.
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This one was by Theo who blew up.
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And if you've noticed, give you a toilet, it's a guy.
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It's kind of a computer graphics guy heading a toilet.
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But play this right now.
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We'll just listen to it.
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Yeah, let's listen to Skibbity Altman.
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Badoos Skibbita.
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I'm a CEO in a porcelain spa.
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Skibbityos Skibbita.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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That's me running AI from the backhand stop.
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Head above water flush that tune.
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Everybody bouncing Sam in the room.
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So that is so, go ahead.
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Sam moment his head sticking out of a toilet.
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Waterline to his Adam's apple, singing a bopper
spk_0
about being a CEO in a toilet.
spk_0
And if you look at the prompts for these two Gavin,
spk_0
we got to talk.
spk_0
Yes, yes.
spk_0
I don't want to detract from like the Sam being everywhere thing.
spk_0
Like some of the, some of the best videos are just
spk_0
this person in this scene.
spk_0
No dialogue, no cuts, no anything else.
spk_0
It's just an empty prompt.
spk_0
And I think there is a lot of secret sauce happening
spk_0
with the prompt engineering behind the scenes
spk_0
because it's detecting, is this a Korean drama?
spk_0
Is this a 1990s infomercial?
spk_0
Is this a courtroom procedural?
spk_0
And it's probably refining and banging out scripts
spk_0
and shots and camera angles and just doing all of that
spk_0
for you behind the scenes because this song wasn't written.
spk_0
It was just Sam Altman as Skibbiti toilet.
spk_0
And it comes this mean.
spk_0
Well, we're going to talk about this later,
spk_0
but there's with the IP issues,
spk_0
but there are lots of like, it's actually funny
spk_0
a lot of the time.
spk_0
And that is another secret sauce here that like Metta's app
spk_0
clearly doesn't have.
spk_0
Like if the actual AI understands something
spk_0
about how these videos have been made in the past
spk_0
and things that made them funny in certain ways,
spk_0
I do also want to mention really quickly.
spk_0
Like I made one with Sam, which made me laugh,
spk_0
which was I kind of prompted it to create the dinosaurs
spk_0
scene from Jurassic Park.
spk_0
So play that one real quick.
spk_0
And we can talk about why it's not always perfect,
spk_0
but it is an interesting thing.
spk_0
What?
spk_0
Oh my god, you're seeing this, right?
spk_0
Huge.
spk_0
So Sam Altman, they're everywhere.
spk_0
I can't believe it.
spk_0
Welcome to Sam Park.
spk_0
So if you're just listening, what you're seeing here
spk_0
is a looks kind of like that scene.
spk_0
I think of it as like the kind of like
spk_0
straight to video version of this scene.
spk_0
There's a Jeep, there's a guy in a hat,
spk_0
and there's a woman who's blonde,
spk_0
but they don't look that much like Sam Neal
spk_0
and Lorde Dern.
spk_0
There's also a giant Sam Altman like reaching up
spk_0
and grabbing a thing off a tree.
spk_0
So he looks like a massive guy.
spk_0
But what's interesting there is you listen closely,
spk_0
it sounds a lot like the Jurassic Park theme song.
spk_0
That audio that's playing there
spk_0
sounds like the John William score from Jurassic Park.
spk_0
And is it, is it, or is it just close to that?
spk_0
And I don't know, that's a big question.
spk_0
Well, we know that licensed music is in this.
spk_0
We, it's very clear that it understands
spk_0
what that scene is in Jurassic Park.
spk_0
You know, is it shot for shot?
spk_0
Probably somewhere in there.
spk_0
Is it being told to modify it slightly on the output?
spk_0
Yeah, you bet,
spk_0
but it doesn't stop it on other generations.
spk_0
Did you see the video that somebody shared
spk_0
of the scene from Cyberpunk?
spk_0
Oh, he just lost your headphone.
spk_0
Oh, that wasn't real, that was AI, Gavin.
spk_0
So somebody shared a scene from Cyberpunk,
spk_0
the game Cyberpunk, where it was able to directly recreate
spk_0
a seismission, which is not something that most people see.
spk_0
And there are a lot of people who are like,
spk_0
of course you can, it's just copying, but like,
spk_0
no, no, no, no.
spk_0
Actually, isn't just copying,
spk_0
and that's kind of a really fascinating thing.
spk_0
Because clearly it had trained on enough of Cyberpunk
spk_0
to understand this weird seismission
spk_0
and recreate it almost exactly.
spk_0
What weird emulation farm do they have there
spk_0
that is playing games, watching Netflix,
spk_0
Netflix clicking on everything,
spk_0
using their own unique classifier
spk_0
to not only break down what is on the screen,
spk_0
how are things on the scene,
spk_0
how are things on the screen moving?
spk_0
Describe the scene as a director,
spk_0
describe the soundtrack as an audio producer, right?
spk_0
The amount of data and embeddings and whatever,
spk_0
that they're grabbing from all of this content
spk_0
that they're sucking into this machine is,
spk_0
look, it's candidly, it's one of the reasons
spk_0
why anytime I post about this stuff,
spk_0
half the internet wants to demolish me, right?
spk_0
And out of your seeing that, but like,
spk_0
here we are celebrating this whimsy and this toy,
spk_0
but the other side of this is front and center, right?
spk_0
Which is they are weapons free with IP,
spk_0
they are giving out generations like anything right now
spk_0
to prove that there is, I mean, clearly,
spk_0
there's gonna be a business model here
spk_0
because if they turn it down and set it as $1,000
spk_0
a month right now, you and I would have a bit of a negotiation
spk_0
back and forth on if we're gonna get it for AI for humans,
spk_0
but I think we probably would.
spk_0
Which is pretty amazing, yes.
spk_0
Although what's making it special right now
spk_0
in part is how people are on it.
spk_0
So like the question would become is like,
spk_0
if you limited, we're gonna talk about all this stuff
spk_0
in a second.
spk_0
One other thing Kevin and I saw that was really interesting
spk_0
is that it renders HTML like a browser.
spk_0
So you can actually put in to this thing in HTML code
spk_0
and it will send you out a website.
spk_0
So to your point about it doing weird stuff
spk_0
behind the scenes and really something technically interesting,
spk_0
I think we're not gonna know exactly how deep it goes
spk_0
for a while as people figured out.
spk_0
Someone prompted go to chat GPT and write a high coup
spk_0
and it did video of the screen of it going to chat GPT
spk_0
and it actually gave an accurate high coup out of it.
spk_0
So it's unbelievable.
spk_0
Here's the other thing too.
spk_0
Like VO3, very incredible model, right?
spk_0
Like great, I will say hats off to open AI.
spk_0
Like they shipped something that is very compelling
spk_0
and very amazing and once again,
spk_0
frontier foundational, like amazing.
spk_0
VO3, great model, there's, depending upon which pricing
spk_0
and which model and what speed you're using
spk_0
and at what quality, like it could cost up to $3
spk_0
for generation, right?
spk_0
Open AI is handing things, like handing these things out
spk_0
right now, like there nothing
spk_0
and you can queue hundreds of them throughout the day.
spk_0
So are they bleeding out for this right now
spk_0
to get market share or did they, what did Ilya see?
spk_0
Did they figure something out behind the scenes
spk_0
that is allowing them to do this, Gavin,
spk_0
way more compute with way more optimized compute
spk_0
than any other competitors.
spk_0
That I read a rumor treat, I'm not gonna,
spk_0
I don't even know where it was from,
spk_0
I definitely saw this yesterday, which says that
spk_0
somebody thought who was in the know,
spk_0
I'm not just making stuff that up,
spk_0
but that they were in the know that what they think
spk_0
might have happened is that open AI was able
spk_0
to train a much smaller model than what something
spk_0
like VO3 is and be able to output this stuff.
spk_0
So they found some way to optimize this video model
spk_0
to make it work.
spk_0
So I think that makes a big difference.
spk_0
I wanna talk about the last thing here that to me
spk_0
is kind of the secret weapon, which did exist in Soro1,
spk_0
but also was also kind of what made
spk_0
foro image gen interesting, which is the ability
spk_0
to remix public output of what these things are.
spk_0
And this goes to talk about the social aspect of this
spk_0
rather than just the AI aspect of it,
spk_0
because I think one thing that open AI understood well
spk_0
with Foro image gen was that you could use somebody else's
spk_0
thing to jump off from, right?
spk_0
And we had a lot of fun, I remember we talked about this
spk_0
a while back, we did those shots of like the 90s
spk_0
video game characters playing their TV.
spk_0
It becomes a meme, right?
spk_0
It becomes a thing.
spk_0
They are doing the same thing with Soro1 and Kevin,
spk_0
I wanna see if you can bring up this link I put there.
spk_0
People are taking MLK and JFK, archival footage
spk_0
and having them say different things in their speeches.
spk_0
And just so you don't, if you don't know this,
spk_0
if you see one of these and there's little dots
spk_0
going to the right and left, instead of swiping up,
spk_0
you could swipe right and left and you can see people
spk_0
taking the same video and you can then add a new prompt
spk_0
on it and have it do different things.
spk_0
So maybe just play a few of these and we might have
spk_0
to cut around a couple of them, but bring up the audio
spk_0
and play a few of them.
spk_0
I had a dream that you had your, you could do,
spk_0
you could do so, you want them to do you so much,
spk_0
you could do anything.
spk_0
So that's the meme.
spk_0
So yeah, so that's the main one that really set Soro
spk_0
on fire and then if you're on the app,
spk_0
you can just swipe left to right.
spk_0
If you're on the website, there's a little remixes panel,
spk_0
remixes panel on the top right that will show you
spk_0
the little thumbnail.
spk_0
Have you ever had a dream that you had your,
spk_0
you could, you'll do, you want, you could do so.
spk_0
So that's JFK and doing the same thing.
spk_0
You want them to do you so much, you could do anything.
spk_0
My brothers and sisters, it is my pleasure
spk_0
to welcome a young man to share word with you all.
spk_0
Please give him your attention.
spk_0
I love BBW's.
spk_0
67.
spk_0
I didn't know what it was going to be, Gavin.
spk_0
I'm just looking for it.
spk_0
spk_0
Should I need to a turvah if I go run a server?
spk_0
How ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome a friend
spk_0
who came a long way to be here today.
spk_0
Give a warm welcome to this young man.
spk_0
Thank you.
spk_0
Oh.
spk_0
Perfect.
spk_0
Popular streamer, XQC farting along with MLK on a stage.
spk_0
This is exactly what everybody wanted and needed.
spk_0
So I was going to say like there's definitely people
spk_0
are audience who may or not find that offensive as a thing
spk_0
to take somebody like MLK or JFK and do these things
spk_0
with them.
spk_0
But like I just wanted to say like it also is useful
spk_0
in other places.
spk_0
There's a really interesting.
spk_0
I saw somebody do Oppenheimer in Minecraft.
spk_0
Yes.
spk_0
And I remixed it as Oppenheimer in anime.
spk_0
And my output was freaking great.
spk_0
And it's only 10 seconds.
spk_0
But like it took the same shots and it took the same audio
spk_0
and it recut it and it made it look like it.
spk_0
I would watch Oppenheimer in anime.
spk_0
But like that is just a really cool thing
spk_0
that only Sora does in this world.
spk_0
And I think that is maybe a huge part of his success
spk_0
because it's hard to make up something, right?
spk_0
One of the things about TikTok, you and I both
spk_0
made TikToks and our TikTok is relatively successful.
spk_0
Getting in front of a camera, setting yourself up
spk_0
to do all this stuff is really not easy.
spk_0
And then to be successful, you have to kind of know
spk_0
well what's the hook I'm going to start with?
spk_0
What's this?
spk_0
If you can jump off of somebody else's creation
spk_0
that they're already doing something that's kind of funny
spk_0
and you can add something to it,
spk_0
it is the amazing thing about remix culture
spk_0
that the web was originally built on.
spk_0
And people will hate the fact that this is AI in part
spk_0
but it is kind of living in that world.
spk_0
We're like everybody's kind of piling
spk_0
into the same sort of idea and that feels cool.
spk_0
I think that feels interesting.
spk_0
Someone who I don't know this person, Daniel,
spk_0
their ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo, ammo,
spk_0
on X.
spk_0
Yesterday I jammed out a commercial for Telly,
spk_0
which is a dual screen television that I'm an investor in
spk_0
and I used Sora almost exclusively.
spk_0
I did some cleanup with Final Cut
spk_0
and I used 11 Labs for some sound effects and some audio
spk_0
but I made a quick little commercial, right?
spk_0
Of me getting arrested because it's a free TV
spk_0
and I'm trying to explain it, blah, blah, blah.
spk_0
In my comments, someone, someone named remote build
spk_0
basically said like, hey, how do I get whatever code
spk_0
you use to unlock longer clips on Sora?
spk_0
And I responded, oh no, no, I edited that.
spk_0
Like sometimes it still takes a human to do something.
spk_0
And they did a long thread on X basically saying
spk_0
that that was like kind of inspiring to them.
spk_0
They don't usually make content like this
spk_0
but they were like, oh, what can I do?
spk_0
And he basically took the concept that I did
spk_0
where I'm like on the hood of a car getting arrested
spk_0
then I'm in an interrogation room, then I'm in prison,
spk_0
you know, then I'm before a judge
spk_0
but he applied it to his business
spk_0
and he said I ended up getting sidetracked
spk_0
with a few sidquest, blah, blah, blah.
spk_0
He said by the time I arrived at my nine to five this morning
spk_0
I'd put together something that grabbed three X
spk_0
the engagement of all prior attempts.
spk_0
Wow, good for you.
spk_0
And it's him raising awareness for his like
spk_0
remote building business or whatever.
spk_0
So like to your point, that was, you know,
spk_0
that's exactly the thing, oh, I saw the thing,
spk_0
I'm gonna take it, I'm gonna try to make it mine,
spk_0
I'm gonna move on and I don't know if we wanna get into
spk_0
like, look, there's a lot of people that are upset
spk_0
about things like, you know, water and power usage with AI.
spk_0
There's a lot of people that are upset
spk_0
with like all the training data that goes into the things.
spk_0
There's a lot of people upset with that pipeline
spk_0
that I just described as someone seeing something,
spk_0
taking it, remixing it for themselves.
spk_0
I'm in this weird place where, and you are too,
spk_0
where you're sort of like, here's our, here's our avatars.
spk_0
Go ahead.
spk_0
Do what you want.
spk_0
You might be in a weird Chinese ad for something
spk_0
that you don't wanna promote
spk_0
but like that comes with the territory.
spk_0
You might have somebody take your idea and remix it
spk_0
and do something that you might not want with it.
spk_0
That also comes with the territory.
spk_0
You take the good with the bad.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Ultimately, and this is something I was talking
spk_0
with April about today, like, you can whisper
spk_0
into a machine like this and it can recycle
spk_0
someone else's creative, right?
spk_0
And give you back something in the style of breaking bad.
spk_0
Sure.
spk_0
Someone still has to make the style.
spk_0
Someone still has to create the thing, right?
spk_0
That is interesting enough that people want to glom
spk_0
onto it and go for it.
spk_0
And so I wonder is like, is that the,
spk_0
am I just moving the goalposts?
spk_0
Am I, am I delusional here, right?
spk_0
Or is there still going to be that need
spk_0
for the human and the loop that makes it interesting enough
spk_0
to define the style?
spk_0
Or maybe the AI?
spk_0
I think it will.
spk_0
And I think that the speed at which these things
spk_0
will rise and fall when I say these things,
spk_0
I mean like the meme or the trend is going to demand
spk_0
that people come up with interesting new stuff.
spk_0
I think it will just spread faster and farther
spk_0
and quicker because of this AI ability.
spk_0
But it also is the flattening, right?
spk_0
Like we've talked about this so many times.
spk_0
It's like many people are going to be able to do this.
spk_0
It is very different than it used to be where a artist
spk_0
had to make something in a filmmaker had to make something
spk_0
or an influencer had to film a video.
spk_0
Now we are intriguing this world.
spk_0
We're like, basically everybody can do it
spk_0
and it does change that.
spk_0
We have so much more to talk about, so are two.
spk_0
But before we have to talk a little bit
spk_0
about the most important thing, which is you at home,
spk_0
liking and subscribing to this YouTube channel.
spk_0
Because that is the thing that keeps us
spk_0
as humans alive here doing the thing we do.
spk_0
Please also, if you leave a five star review
spk_0
for our podcast on audio, do that as well.
spk_0
As I've said before, if you leave a five star review,
spk_0
it will automatically tweet out from our Twitter handle
spk_0
which we don't control anymore.
spk_0
The AI is taking that over.
spk_0
But most importantly, all thank you so much
spk_0
for supporting our startup.
spk_0
We're going to talk a little bit more about that later.
spk_0
Yes, thank you.
spk_0
It is open now, which we're going to get into,
spk_0
but you can go to and then.chat.
spk_0
And we do appreciate everybody that came into our discord,
spk_0
which you can do.
spk_0
It's linked down below the show here.
spk_0
Ed, come give us feedback on that.
spk_0
But thank you so much everybody for supporting us
spk_0
across the way.
spk_0
We do solve a Patreon, every Patreon supporter.
spk_0
We still love you.
spk_0
And thank you so much for that.
spk_0
It's allowed us to kind of pay for these tools
spk_0
as we go forward.
spk_0
Kevin, I were talking beforehand.
spk_0
Like this show as an entity does not,
spk_0
is not profitable.
spk_0
Like we've spent a lot of time in a lot of my time.
spk_0
I just got three jet skis.
spk_0
Was that a, was that a miss guy?
spk_0
I was not supposed to do that was actually Sora,
spk_0
but it does, it is supported by you people at home,
spk_0
either watching and liking or sending money to our Patreon.
spk_0
So thank you so much for that everybody.
spk_0
And thank you for that sweet Algo juice.
spk_0
It's delicious comment, nectar, drop it in the comments.
spk_0
It's so tasty.
spk_0
Gavin, we got to talk about our rights
spk_0
and other people's rights as well.
spk_0
Yes, because we do.
spk_0
Again, like we sort of just gave them away.
spk_0
What do you think the time to regret is on this, by the way?
spk_0
When do you think we pull our avatars or our cameos down?
spk_0
Well, I guess it will depend on what actually goes on with them.
spk_0
I think probably, what to see,
spk_0
what to see what happens this week.
spk_0
What's going to happen this week?
spk_0
So the big thing here though is that we want to talk further
spk_0
about what Sora too is the IP of this all, right?
spk_0
So we alluded to this earlier before,
spk_0
but if you haven't seen one of the things
spk_0
that's kind of happening like it did with Foro Image Gen,
spk_0
which was called the jibblification of the internet.
spk_0
There's this huge uproar about the fact that studio jibbly images
spk_0
were clearly used to train and then everybody created jibbly-like images.
spk_0
Well now more than just train Kevin,
spk_0
there are full-blown IP characters like Pikachu or SpongeBob
spk_0
or the South Park characters,
spk_0
and you can generate them basically making clips from that show
spk_0
or doing things that they should not be doing.
spk_0
So I think just as a good example of this,
spk_0
I want to kind of play this clip.
spk_0
If you can play this clip from Signal,
spk_0
who I don't know if he made this clip,
spk_0
but there's an actually really interesting string out
spk_0
of basically a South Park episode that somebody made.
spk_0
So let's listen to like, I don't know, 15, 20 seconds of this,
spk_0
and you'll get a sense of like, how it progresses.
spk_0
Are we gonna get, and this is a sincere question,
spk_0
are we gonna get a take-down notice on YouTube
spk_0
for playing AI-generated South Park,
spk_0
which actually I'm not sure about that.
spk_0
Yeah, there you are.
spk_0
No, you're absolutely right.
spk_0
You're absolutely right.
spk_0
So who knows if it would get flagged,
spk_0
but we're not gonna show it or play it,
spk_0
but it's a minute 59 seconds,
spk_0
at least the clip right now as it exists.
spk_0
It's a string out of 10 seconds Sora clips,
spk_0
but it's a full, it feels like a full South Park experience.
spk_0
So Cartman first decides, doesn't wanna go to Canada,
spk_0
then he has to go to Canada, goes to Canada,
spk_0
ends up getting a job at Tim Hortons,
spk_0
then becomes the manager of Tim Hortons,
spk_0
and like every step along the way, it's not South Park,
spk_0
you can tell there's weird cuts and things like that
spk_0
and there's a few weird things,
spk_0
but like there are moments in there
spk_0
where you're like, oh, that does sound like
spk_0
something Cartman would say,
spk_0
and it does, there are a couple laughs in there,
spk_0
and I will say like, I'm not an easy AI laugh
spk_0
other than left it something weird.
spk_0
This has clearly taken in not just the look of the thing,
spk_0
not just the voice of the thing,
spk_0
but some sense of how that character performs,
spk_0
and how some sense of how that character talks,
spk_0
and I don't just mean again, I'm not saying just voice,
spk_0
I'm saying like the words that are coming out
spk_0
of that character's mouth,
spk_0
and this has got everybody riled up right now, I feel like,
spk_0
which probably for a good reason.
spk_0
Of course, yeah, Matt Beloney had a tweet as well,
spk_0
like no big deal, he said,
spk_0
I'm just making personalized videos on Sora
spk_0
with my favorite copyrighted characters
spk_0
on by Disney and Amazon slash Netflix,
spk_0
featuring an identifiable actress
spk_0
who is definitely not getting paid for this.
spk_0
And this video is Wednesday at the dining table,
spk_0
sitting next to Peter Griffin, doing a full scene,
spk_0
and again, the prompt is pretty straightforward.
spk_0
Wednesday Adams eating dinner at a dinner table
spk_0
with Peter Griffin from Family Guy.
spk_0
And so Matt, if you don't know Matt,
spk_0
Matt writes a great newsletter at Pocken,
spk_0
he's kind of like directly tied into the kind of Hollywood scene,
spk_0
like these are people who he knows who he's talking to,
spk_0
he's talking to the executives at every Hollywood studio.
spk_0
Plus, the near times that a great article about this
spk_0
from Mike Isaac, one of our favorite writers,
spk_0
who talked about the idea that WME, the agency,
spk_0
basically sent up a flare into the sky when they saw this happen
spk_0
and they said that everybody should pull their rights
spk_0
to use this stuff.
spk_0
And Kevin, I do want to be clear,
spk_0
there was story in the Wall Street Journal
spk_0
before Sora Too Launch, where they did say
spk_0
that opening I had given, I think a week's notice
spk_0
to companies to say like, if you don't want your IP,
spk_0
and some of you may have found like,
spk_0
I couldn't, Disney stuff is hard to get out,
spk_0
like I couldn't get Darth Vader, I couldn't get Mickey Mouse,
spk_0
there are certain companies that may have pulled themselves out.
spk_0
My question about the South Park thing,
spk_0
so really what I've seen mostly,
spk_0
I will say of IP wise, it's SpongeBob, South Park, and Pikachu.
spk_0
And Mario, I've seen a lot of Nintendo.
spk_0
A lot of Nintendo.
spk_0
So it's interesting is Nintendo and Paramount.
spk_0
So Paramount owns both SpongeBob and South Park.
spk_0
And part of me is wondering,
spk_0
gosh, I wonder if, if you're not following
spk_0
the Hollywood business very quickly, Paramount just went
spk_0
through a deal where they got bought by the Ellisons.
spk_0
And I'm wondering in some way,
spk_0
there's a choice that's being made to let that happen.
spk_0
And I would be really interested, even like Matt and Tray,
spk_0
like might be interested in like seeing what would happen,
spk_0
even if they let that happen for a brief bit of time,
spk_0
just because they're weird kind of anarchists sometimes.
spk_0
This SpongeBob one is stranger.
spk_0
And Kevin, I think the other thing,
spk_0
that's really important to know here is like,
spk_0
none of these are approved uses, right?
spk_0
And there's some weird stuff.
spk_0
Like there's a clip of SpongeBob
spk_0
where they've recreated half baked, the Dave Chappelle movie,
spk_0
where that's a bunch of stoners.
spk_0
So like most of this stuff is not brand savvy.
spk_0
I think it's a weird place that I do also think,
spk_0
as we've talked about before, this is likely going to be nerfed.
spk_0
So if you're trying to get these out,
spk_0
try to get them out now, probably.
spk_0
Now is the time.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
Yeah, it's interesting that they went full opt out.
spk_0
I mean, there's no shortage of discussions, Gavin,
spk_0
about how lawsuits are gonna fly,
spk_0
the hammer's gonna drop, like opting out as one thing,
spk_0
but they're gonna expect cash from this.
spk_0
Do you think they just saw what was happening
spk_0
with Kling and Minimax and like,
spk_0
let's say just non-US models happening and said,
spk_0
we have to do this, or do you think they felt like,
spk_0
right now, let's say this administration,
spk_0
we're not too worried about regulation.
spk_0
Because I mean, this is all leading up to the thing
spk_0
we've talked about in the show for maybe since the beginning
spk_0
of the show, which is like, who has rights to do this stuff
spk_0
and what does it mean?
spk_0
The big question was always like, well,
spk_0
if you trained on this stuff, then do you owe us money?
spk_0
And then it seemed like people like James Cameron was saying,
spk_0
and it's like, no, it's more about the output.
spk_0
If the output is something that has our things in it,
spk_0
then you owe us money.
spk_0
But this is kind of like weapons free in some ways,
spk_0
except for the people that have opted out.
spk_0
So my expectation is kind of like when
spk_0
40 Image Gen came out, it's like, I remember when
spk_0
40 Image Gen came out, I was able to create like a G.I. Joe
spk_0
image with like a thing that was me in it.
spk_0
And then like two days later, it's like,
spk_0
there's just no way to get that prompt through.
spk_0
So I expect something like that is going to come through.
spk_0
One thing that is different than was different
spk_0
about Sora 1 and Image Gen is you cannot generate celebrities.
spk_0
So you don't see a lot of celebrity photos,
spk_0
like human visages or faces are blocked often.
spk_0
So what, here's a funny thing, Kevin.
spk_0
Will Smith or let's take any other celebrity
spk_0
who's like kind of like an interesting celebrity
spk_0
that does stuff.
spk_0
I think this is a moment and this actually goes to a point.
spk_0
I mentioned this in this week's newsletter.
spk_0
There was a big story about an AI character
spk_0
named Tilly Norwood who is an AI actress.
spk_0
It's making this huge fuss in Hollywood right now
spk_0
because like, you know, she's gonna,
spk_0
she's getting representation maybe an agency.
spk_0
But what if it is a game as actor?
spk_0
What's that?
spk_0
Well, he said she's getting representation.
spk_0
It is, but yeah.
spk_0
What if a famous actor or somebody who's even like
spk_0
a semi-famous actor said, okay, guess what?
spk_0
I'm gonna upload my cameo.
spk_0
I honestly think if I were an agent,
spk_0
if somebody who's like kind of like on the down slope,
spk_0
go for it.
spk_0
What do you think now that time?
spk_0
What do you think the conversations I have with WMRI
spk_0
get them?
spk_0
Is that like you're in China?
spk_0
Kevin, now it's gonna be.
spk_0
You haven't been relevant since arguably 2014.
spk_0
Whatever you can do.
spk_0
Go talk Chinese engine factories.
spk_0
Get out there and do TikTok dances in Mongolia.
spk_0
Go for it because Gavin, if I can become the next Tom
spk_0
of this Sora MySpace.
spk_0
Sure.
spk_0
Then I can say, hey, Sammy Altman,
spk_0
fraction of a penny anytime someone uses my cameo,
spk_0
that's fine.
spk_0
You're gonna want the OG.
spk_0
You're gonna want this.
spk_0
Of course.
spk_0
Says no one ever.
spk_0
People want you, Kevin.
spk_0
They do.
spk_0
They're totally making it.
spk_0
I was just Chinese with people want you.
spk_0
I was fishing hard.
spk_0
But while we were having this discussion,
spk_0
I went to Sora, Gavin.
spk_0
I'm staring at the progress circle and it's coming in.
spk_0
But you mentioned a fan of ours,
spk_0
friend of the show, James Cameron.
spk_0
He said we should be paid on output.
spk_0
I'm curious, can I bond with an avatar character
spk_0
using my massive braid?
spk_0
And we're gonna find out soon if this will violate guidelines
spk_0
because I don't know if you're interested.
spk_0
No, it's okay.
spk_0
Sometimes when you render something,
spk_0
it waits until the output to let you know
spk_0
that it might be a violation of something.
spk_0
Yeah, which is pretty interesting.
spk_0
It also checks if you,
spk_0
because you can upload images to go along with your generations.
spk_0
It will not allow you to upload imagery of people.
spk_0
There's checks for that.
spk_0
And again, the clothing check
spk_0
when you're making an avatar surprise surprise.
spk_0
So I want to talk a little bit about the business behind this.
spk_0
So Dan Broning said that OpenAI has launched
spk_0
three natural ad units in the last few days.
spk_0
Pulse, a topic card, which we talked briefly about.
spk_0
This idea that it gives you this kind of daily update
spk_0
if you're a pro subscriber.
spk_0
Buy it in chat GPT,
spk_0
which we'll talk about in just a second here.
spk_0
And then Sora two sponsored videos in the feed.
spk_0
And he says that is up from just zero last week.
spk_0
So when we talk about the business here,
spk_0
chat GPT needs to make money.
spk_0
We've talked about that for a while.
spk_0
They now have built that audience
spk_0
where they have 700 plus million users,
spk_0
I think a week, right?
spk_0
And they have now this Sora thing that's blowing up.
spk_0
What they're gonna try to find is some ways to make money.
spk_0
And Sam was asked specifically about this on Twitter.
spk_0
And he said, because he was referring,
spk_0
a lot of people are like,
spk_0
oh, you're just doing this AI slop thing to put out stuff.
spk_0
And where's AGI?
spk_0
And Sam specifically said, he said,
spk_0
I get the vibe here,
spk_0
but we mostly need the capital to build AI
spk_0
that can do for science.
spk_0
And we are sure and we're sure focused on AGI
spk_0
with almost all our research effort.
spk_0
It is also nice to show people new tech products along the way.
spk_0
So basically he's saying this sort of thing
spk_0
is going to pay for the stuff that will benefit humanity.
spk_0
That would be what most anybody would say
spk_0
whether they're looking to make money.
spk_0
But in this instance,
spk_0
like they had to figure out some way to make money, right?
spk_0
They had to figure out some way to get cash into the bank.
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
I can see all of these things happening.
spk_0
And I think we should touch really quickly on one
spk_0
because we glossed over three things, right?
spk_0
Like there's this Pulse product,
spk_0
which is sort of like a daily,
spk_0
here's what's going on, here's your updates, right?
spk_0
We saw it too, we've we've yapped about for quite a while.
spk_0
But the buy-in chat GPT is a pretty interesting one.
spk_0
And this is an integration right now with Shopify,
spk_0
which allows retailers to put their products
spk_0
directly within the chat experience.
spk_0
So when I go to chat GPT and I say,
spk_0
hey, find me the best blah, blah, blah.
spk_0
Or do we have these Chinese sneakers
spk_0
that I love to sell now, Gavin?
spk_0
I love them.
spk_0
Do they have an size not a half?
spk_0
Yeah, exactly.
spk_0
And out comes the Shopify store in app.
spk_0
And you can tap and purchase.
spk_0
And so Elon has long proselytized the X app
spk_0
to be the thing that rules it all.
spk_0
I do kind of see open AI crawling in that direction with,
spk_0
okay, now they've got a TikTok competitor
spk_0
that can be a lot of fun.
spk_0
They have chat GPT, they have advance voice,
spk_0
they have the daily thing to remind you of what's going on.
spk_0
You can code and make apps and share them.
spk_0
And now you can shop within the same app.
spk_0
Like that's a way to make some money.
spk_0
Well, and we've been saying this for a while,
spk_0
like the attention is all you need
spk_0
in terms of what it is.
spk_0
Oh, did we get a result back here?
spk_0
You got your avatar result?
spk_0
Did it give you something?
spk_0
Okay, text it to me.
spk_0
We'll look at it together.
spk_0
I'm tech to get me have to do this in real time.
spk_0
Hold on.
spk_0
I don't know how many pennies James Cameron
spk_0
is gonna get for this, but you know what?
spk_0
Let me just play it.
spk_0
Prissy Nair like this.
spk_0
Oh my God.
spk_0
It is our cues are part of us.
spk_0
Ready?
spk_0
I'm ready.
spk_0
What is that?
spk_0
I don't understand.
spk_0
I mean, yeah.
spk_0
This is gonna get nerfed.
spk_0
Just so we're like,
spk_0
saying what we're seeing here.
spk_0
We're seeing suckling.
spk_0
Loan on her hair.
spk_0
It looks like a scene from the movie,
spk_0
which is crazy to me like this.
spk_0
One thing that's interesting about Sora's stuff
spk_0
is sometimes the quality of your hair lower.
spk_0
This is a very high quality clip.
spk_0
And it's you with a long, hippie braid,
spk_0
but it's you human form.
spk_0
And it's you standing next to the,
spk_0
I don't know what the,
spk_0
the novel, the novel.
spk_0
Yeah, it's a novel.
spk_0
One of the novies, one of the main novies,
spk_0
but she's like one of the main characters.
spk_0
And it's you touching your braids together.
spk_0
And then the braid is in your mouth.
spk_0
So you're eating the braids.
spk_0
Sure is.
spk_0
Yeah, and I don't know how this braiding stuff works.
spk_0
I mean, docking, I can wrap my head around that.
spk_0
But this, I'm just gonna suckle on the hair
spk_0
until I feel like I'm a blue person.
spk_0
Okay, fair enough, fair enough.
spk_0
That's enough, that's enough, let's make one final call,
spk_0
okay, because I do want to have this.
spk_0
There's so many people talking about AI Slop lately.
spk_0
And I actually wrote a whole newsletter about this
spk_0
about a week and a half ago before Sora to,
spk_0
do you think this is going to make AI Slop a problem?
spk_0
Are we gonna, is it going to get worse?
spk_0
Do you think AI Slop at first, at first is a problem?
spk_0
No, I mean, define problem.
spk_0
I feel like every generation loves to shake a fist
spk_0
at the previous generation's content, right?
spk_0
There's nothing new there.
spk_0
Is AI Slop a problem?
spk_0
Depends on what perspective you look at it.
spk_0
Is it rewiring brains and frying them?
spk_0
Yeah, probably.
spk_0
I think it is, right?
spk_0
But people made the same argument of MTV back in the day.
spk_0
Yeah, okay.
spk_0
Is it taking away much needed spotlight
spk_0
from human creators that rely on algorithms
spk_0
to get discovered?
spk_0
Yeah, it is.
spk_0
Is it doing that because users are expressing an interest
spk_0
in that and they want to watch that?
spk_0
And they're seeking it out and engaging with it?
spk_0
Yeah.
spk_0
So, yes.
spk_0
I mean, please, you, this is your expertise here.
spk_0
I enjoy AI Slop.
spk_0
I think some of it's very funny.
spk_0
I also love nestling in to a long form something
spk_0
by a creator that I really, really appreciate and support.
spk_0
So I think both things can be true.
spk_0
Yeah, I mean, this is exactly where I was gonna come from
spk_0
on a two is like, it is a very complicated conversation.
spk_0
One thing I keep coming back to is that computers
spk_0
are not making these things for us.
spk_0
Yes, they're making them easier,
spk_0
but humans are the ones making and watching them.
spk_0
So I think it's just an important thing to understand
spk_0
that like if this changes the way you think about media,
spk_0
if it changes the way you think about your work,
spk_0
all of that stuff is complicated and hard
spk_0
and it's not gonna go away.
spk_0
So I do think it's, and by the way, there will be rules, right?
spk_0
Like we said, I think they're, they're going to nerf
spk_0
a lot of this stuff because honestly,
spk_0
I don't think they should be able to make these sorts
spk_0
of things with other creations or things that people own.
spk_0
I know there's differentiations there.
spk_0
A lot of people in the world believe that like IP rights
spk_0
in general should go away and we've had people
spk_0
on our common say that before.
spk_0
I'm not sure that's the best thing for human creativity
spk_0
because I believe that like if you create something
spk_0
there is value there, but this is the complicated world
spk_0
we're living in.
spk_0
It is not that far off except for say like times 1000
spk_0
from what we looked at with like remix culture in the 90s.
spk_0
Like I was old enough to live through my favorite artists
spk_0
were like Beck, Beastie Boys, people from the 90s
spk_0
who actually, girl talk is a good other good example
spk_0
of people who take other music and put it together.
spk_0
And a lot of that music got kind of killed in part
spk_0
because it got too expensive to make sample based audio
spk_0
and it became a really expensive thing.
spk_0
So I don't know if it's just hard to know where it's going to land
spk_0
but it is not a new conversation like this idea.
spk_0
Like your point about MTV is perfectly right.
spk_0
Like I think the same thing with video games
spk_0
when I was a kid like there were people who said
spk_0
video games were going to, we're going to fry people's brains
spk_0
and we're going to make turn kids into like demons
spk_0
and monsters and I don't think that's the case.
spk_0
It clearly hasn't happened.
spk_0
And so it's a complicated scenario
spk_0
but this is the next stage of us having to kind of wrestle
spk_0
with it as a culture.
spk_0
This is a perfect transition, Kevin.
spk_0
Come on.
spk_0
Come on.
spk_0
Yeah, okay.
spk_0
Let's get into it, Gavin.
spk_0
Here's the transition is that we have come out with something
spk_0
that is AI generated but also very much relies
spk_0
on human creativity and it is called and then
spk_0
you have heard us talking about us here for the last
spk_0
God, how long it knows how many months at this point
spk_0
and it's out in the world.
spk_0
There's an early beta.
spk_0
You can play through a handful of these experiences.
spk_0
There'll be new ones coming out all the time.
spk_0
What it is, just very clearly if you haven't heard us
spk_0
talk about it, it is an audio interactive product
spk_0
where you talk to characters using your voice
spk_0
and try to get them to do something.
spk_0
These characters are AI generated voices
spk_0
but they are actually written by people.
spk_0
Meaning that people like right now it's us
spk_0
but we think eventually it could be other people as well
spk_0
are writing the scenarios and coming up with the characters
spk_0
and kind of setting them up and then the AI brings them
spk_0
to life.
spk_0
So, Kevin, it's exciting to have this out in the world.
spk_0
We've been getting some great feedback on it.
spk_0
There's some cool things.
spk_0
But I'm just happy that people are getting a chance to play it
spk_0
and if you're listening to this right now
spk_0
or watching, go give it a shot after you finish watching this.
spk_0
Don't leave right now to go do it
spk_0
but you can go to and then dot chat to try it.
spk_0
It's completely free.
spk_0
It's completely free.
spk_0
It's completely free.
spk_0
You can use it in a browser.
spk_0
You can use it on your phone.
spk_0
You don't have to download anything.
spk_0
And then dot chat is the site, something we have to make
spk_0
a habit of saying more Gavin because it's gotta find it.
spk_0
But yeah, we launched Doc Master's Zed today
spk_0
which was something that we beta tested
spk_0
with some of our earlier folks.
spk_0
And Kudos to you, by the way, and a huge thank you
spk_0
to the Hollywood Reporter for an amazing story that dropped
spk_0
today.
spk_0
It was about as generous as coverage can get.
spk_0
The author enjoyed the experiences, like actually spent time
spk_0
and I brought up Doc Master's Zed
spk_0
because they managed to bribe Doc Master's Zed.
spk_0
I'm not gonna say how,
spk_0
but that was one of the intended paths
spk_0
that we put into that experience
spk_0
because I was like, oh, that'd be kind of fun.
spk_0
There's more than one way to beat the game
spk_0
but we wanted to use the power of AI
spk_0
to let the player explore whatever path they want
spk_0
to get to the end goal.
spk_0
And they did something that I was hoping they would try
spk_0
but in a way that I didn't expect that they would do.
spk_0
So I'm blown away by the response to it
spk_0
that people are taking to it that they're enjoying it,
spk_0
that they're saying, oh, I love that.
spk_0
I wish I could do a insert thing here
spk_0
because that's exactly what we wanted to inspire with us.
spk_0
We want to release these tools
spk_0
so that anybody else can make their own
spk_0
cozy simulator or Italian brain rot generator.
spk_0
I just realized, Doc Master's Zed is at the bottom of our site.
spk_0
We got to move Zed up.
spk_0
He's been these broad, oh, no.
spk_0
He's the new, he's the new one.
spk_0
He's the star.
spk_0
Yeah, and again, I just think the important thing here
spk_0
that Kevin, we're going to talk about our launch trailer too,
spk_0
which we made that people enjoyed as well,
spk_0
which is not really as much about us as it is about us
spk_0
kind of using AI tools.
spk_0
But the important thing to know about what we're doing here
spk_0
and I think that we've thought a lot about
spk_0
over the last two years of making this.
spk_0
And the reason why the show is called AI for humans
spk_0
is it is AI and humans together trying to do something.
spk_0
And I think in the same way we just went
spk_0
all this time talking about Sora too
spk_0
and like the human creativity that's coming out,
spk_0
we cannot forget that side of it.
spk_0
And like it's really important that the human aspect
spk_0
of it comes across.
spk_0
And I said in this article, but I'll say it again
spk_0
very quickly here, your experience,
spk_0
if you are listening, cannot be replicated by an AI.
spk_0
There's just no way that it will be able to be you.
spk_0
And this is my wife is teacher's writing.
spk_0
It's the same thing she says.
spk_0
It's like when you're writing a book,
spk_0
you can try to copy another person's style
spk_0
or you can try to copy something
spk_0
as you think it's going to be successful.
spk_0
But ultimately, you've got to figure out
spk_0
what your version of that thing is.
spk_0
So that's what I'm hoping to bring to AI
spk_0
a little bit with with Anne then.
spk_0
And I think it's possible.
spk_0
But let's let's transition and kick
spk_0
heaven this launch trailer.
spk_0
So Kevin, I had a weird idea to do a launch trailer.
spk_0
If you're not familiar in the startup world,
spk_0
there's all these kind of like launch trailers
spk_0
that have happened most famously recently
spk_0
was the Cluelie launch trailer.
spk_0
We've talked about Cluelie on the show.
spk_0
They're kind of like cheat at your life startup with AI.
spk_0
They had a trailer where like, you know,
spk_0
it was two characters sitting across from each other
spk_0
and one guy didn't know anything about the other woman.
spk_0
He was using a Cluelie like screen to do this.
spk_0
But they go viral, right?
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And this idea is like you have to have a startup trailer.
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And so Kevin and I came up with an idea
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which was basically what would it be like
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is if we kind of, you know,
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forest gumped ourself through a bunch of these trailers.
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And as an idea, it's a funny idea.
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But also, Kev, let's talk about how we did this
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because I think people out there when they see this
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might be like, you guys must have spent a fortune on this.
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You must have spent, you know, three weeks,
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six weeks making this.
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Yeah, we sure do.
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Tell a little bit about the details of what we did
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and what it looked like.
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So first of all, some kudos, Fiona Nova coming on board.
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Good friend of mine to direct.
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Our dear friend Kevin Capiello, amazing editor.
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Amazing editor.
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I don't even like saying editor because he's a graphic wizard.
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He's a part of the creative team really in a lot of way.
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Honestly, yeah, projects that we get to jam on with him
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are always on the next level because of him.
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So massive shout out there.
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Kodiak as well coming on board.
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So there was, it was no shortage of people coming into play
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which is the human element of this, right?
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People coming together to make a thing.
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In the past though, I'm gonna just say as candidly as possible,
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this shoot would have been impossible for the timeline that we had
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and the resources are lack thereof that we had full stop.
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And I have done videos like this
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where you're parodying pop culture, whatever I know you did them
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with the tonight show.
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I did them every year for like Nintendo, for other streaming
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efforts like you would have massive hair and makeup.
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You would have wardrobe, you'd have special sets and sound stages.
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You would have props.
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You would have whole VFX team.
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You would have all of these things.
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And had we had those things, by the way,
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we could have made the video even better.
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Sure.
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But the reality is we had very limited time
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and very limited money.
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So the workflow was get our shot list together, right?
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These are the videos that we're going to parody.
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These are the scenes we are going to comp ourselves into
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using AI tools and everything began with a driving image.
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So we used a collection of tools like seed dream,
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like runway, Sora, or open AI image generation,
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nano banana, Gemini by Google.
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These are all just off the shellfish AI tools
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where we would grab a screen cap of the original video
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or the original event that we were parodying.
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And then we would say swap us into it, right?
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Yeah.
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And then maybe we'd do a little work.
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I would sometimes use face fusion and swap my face in there.
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Kev Cap had his own routine for making these AI versions of us.
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But basically everything started with a driving frame.
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And then we said in this scene, close up of Kevin will be saying
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this, close up of Gavin will be saying that.
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And then we went to tools like WAN 2.2,
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which just came out around the time of this,
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or runway act two, which is a program that lets you
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pop it the lips or the body movements
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and the arm movements of characters.
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And so we would just put those driving frames in there,
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drive them with AI and then take that end result
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and put a little color correction,
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a little polish, some special effects on it.
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But that was it.
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I mean, it was you and I sitting in front of an index,
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one of our co-founders sitting in front of a pop up green screen
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at the A16Z offices, just saying the lines.
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Yes.
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And then applying it to the stills and we got like,
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it's an AI approximation of it.
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And I think sometimes the brokenness of the scenes
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is the joke.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But like that's pretty much it.
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There's a scene where I throw a silver ball
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against a cyber truck window and shatter it.
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That was just cling.
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I fed it a starting image of me with this bad mustache on stage.
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So it would look like me.
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And I said he throws the ball at the thing.
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It took me like 15 generations eventually.
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I got one that kind of worked.
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Like, there's your,
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I have to say shout out to you because one of the things Kevin
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had to do in this was go through the generations.
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And we've said this a million times.
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Kevin, I have both through projects like this
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where you are a random slot machine version.
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Yeah, what you're doing, you have to generate a lot of stuff
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to get the right out, the right stuff out.
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So it is a lot of trial and error.
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But I will say like this shoot as a someone
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who was a television producer for a long time,
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like if you put, if you had to bring this team together
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to make this thing and you had to put it all together,
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it would have, I think conservatively cost 10 times
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as much as it did.
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Maybe, maybe not that much.
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Five to seven times as much as it did.
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For basically what we actually did with it.
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Yeah, I would say, I would actually say 10x.
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Yeah, and what's crazy about that is, you know,
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again, to Kevin's point, we were able to do it
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in a short amount of time.
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The reason we're saying this is because it just shows you
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how production, not just AI production,
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not just generating stuff,
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but actual production can change.
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And I think if any of you out there is listening to this
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or watching this and wants a more specific,
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like step by step detail, how we did this,
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I'm sure we'll be more than happy to figure out how to do this.
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Like, in fact, maybe there's a YouTube video
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when we have some time where we can make a step by step
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walk down at this.
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But a big part of this, Kevin, I want to say is,
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the shooting on green screen, I think,
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does make a difference.
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If somebody's out there trying to figure out lip syncing,
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if you are a creator out there, you're like,
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how can I do these better?
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How did that look so much better?
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Having actual, puppeted faces that you can actually shoot
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is a very valuable asset I think for this process, right?
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Yeah, I mean, just high, really high res clean footage
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of your mouth if that's what you're going for,
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or making sure that you're starting position matches
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the still that you're going to pilot.
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But sometimes these apps, when you have a starting still
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where you can't see the person's hands
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and suddenly you're expecting hands,
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they get disproportionate or wonky.
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And if that's what you're going for, great.
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But one thing that I thought was really interesting
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about this process is that yes, it worked,
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but I'm very fortunate.
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I think you are too in this regard.
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We have experience with the other side,
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the traditional side of this production.
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And the most fun I had,
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I mean, there was a lot of fun with seeing the results.
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Don't get me wrong.
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And I'm really proud of what we put together
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again, considering the limitations.
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But the most fun I had, Gav was hanging out on set.
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In the flesh, coming up with things with other creatives,
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right?
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And that's something that this pipeline doesn't really account for.
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There was like one little, I did a dumb thing
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on the green screen where I tilted my head and smiled
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and smiled awkwardly.
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Kevin, to his credit, took that and was like,
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oh, he put it in one of the roughs.
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So I applied it to the AI.
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It's really difficult to improv.
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And at yes and a scene as you're going with this workflow.
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So it's like the traditional workflow,
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we probably would have got slightly more entertaining
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or funnier stuff or there'd have been a silly moment
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with the hair as I'm swapped as the woman
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in the Cluelie video.
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They're probably at a moment with the hair dangling
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in my face.
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And this, at the other, we could have played with it.
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You're not getting that with this other workflow.
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So as much as I can sing the praises of the efficiency
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and the, again, the output for the resource constraint,
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there's a whole other world of this
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that I would miss so dearly if this were the only production
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style.
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So I think there's going to be a world
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where both are going to exist and play nice
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and be good for the various reasons that they're good.
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And I think that to your point,
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like creating with other people can be fun in person.
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So maybe there's even a world if you're an AI creator
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is like, I know there's a bunch of AI creator meetups,
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but like, see what it's like to make something
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with three people and jam on it together
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and like, have each of you do stuff.
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Cause I think that does make a big difference.
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And also that point of like shooting on the green screen,
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there were moments where you and I both gave us each other notes
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on like a funny thing to add on to.
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And if you've ever been on a set, like a comedy set,
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like it's like, you'll pitch a joke
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and like, somebody will take it or they won't take it
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or they'll then think of another joke.
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And like, that is part of what makes creation super fun.
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So yeah, I think you're right.
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That's a good note to leave on here.
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Creation doesn't have to be the machines.
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It doesn't have to be just people,
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but there's a weird mix here where like both things together
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can be really good.
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So that is it for today.
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Everybody, we will see you all next week.
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Go check out Ann then and Kevin, any parting words?
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Ann then not chat and then not chat.
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The wild women, the ripin' in the,
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the wild women.
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Oh, all right, bye everybody.
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We'll see you all next time.
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Do you know the heat and this is a collab?
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Yeah, okay, all right, yeah.