Technology
Into the Toyota Land Cruiser
In this episode of 'Car Drivers Into Cars,' hosts Tony Quiroga and Eddie Alterman take a deep dive into the reimagined 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser. They explore its off-road capabilities and di...
Into the Toyota Land Cruiser
Technology •
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Interactive Transcript
Speaker A
Hello and welcome to Car Drivers Into Cars, a podcast from iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio, brought to you by Ebay Motors. I'm Tony Quiroga, the editor in chief of Car and Driver, and I'm joined by my co host, former editor in chief and current chief Brand and Content officer, Eddie Alterman. And together we're into cars.
Speaker B
Each episode of this podcast covers a new car that we think is worthy of your attention. The cars we select may feature a novel design, cutting edge engineering, or something entirely new. We'll cover the stories behind the cars, answering the whys and exploring the what's to bring you into the experience. We'll drive the things and let you listen in, and then we'll sit down with the people who actually made the cars to answer our questions about them. Come along for the ride and you'll hear it all. The good, the bad and the ugly in the way that only car and Driver delivers.
Speaker A
This episode of Into Cars is a little different. Today we'll be off roading in the reimagined Toyota Land Cruiser to find out if it lives up to its legendary name. After crawling over rocks and getting dirty, we'll dust ourselves off and sit down with Markus Umlauf, Toyota's general manager of truck strategy, to find out more about the engineering and decisions behind the Land Cruiser.
Speaker B
So here we have it, the long awaited 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser. It's been on hiatus this model since 2021. Changed a lot since then, but a lot of the change is not dimensional, it's visual.
Speaker A
No, it's still a big truck. It's the same wheelbase, I think it's the same width. It's within an inch on height or 2 inches on height, and the overall length is about the same. So it's the same size truck. It's just not the same Land Cruiser, though. It's not the $87,000 Land Cruiser. This one is a lot less money. It starts in the mid-50s. The one we have here, though, is a bit more expensive.
Speaker B
This is the first edition.
Speaker A
Yeah. Fully loaded.
Speaker B
It's funny how it can present so differently than that last Land Cruiser that we had. What was the model on that? FJ?
Speaker A
FJ200.
Speaker B
200?
Speaker A
Yeah, FJ200. The one in the 80s, I think was the 62 and then the one in the 90s was the 80 and then we went to the 100 and then we went to the 200, which was the last one.
Speaker B
And they were great. They were really like the sort of Japanese Range Rover in A way they were really deluxe, very, very capable. But I doubt anybody outside of Dubai used them off road.
Speaker A
Yeah, certainly not the first owners used them off road, the second owners or third owners, because the things just lasted forever too. There was a repair shop in my old neighborhood in Los Angeles and the guy would drive the cars around trying to see what was wrong with them. And he drove a Land Cruiser by me once and I said, what's wrong with this? And he was like, absolutely nothing. Like 300,000 miles on it.
Speaker B
And they don't. And they were complicated too. Yeah, I mean, three locking diffs and a lot of electronics, but bulletproof.
Speaker A
This is more of a return to basics. So it's on the new Toyota truck platform, the TNGA, and this is the supposed 250 series. The Lexus LX is on the 300 series, which is over and above this. But you get this for a lot less money than the Lexus.
Speaker B
And there are four similar vehicles off that 250 platform. You've got the Lexus GX550, which is a three row SUV, but very similar to this. Then you have the Land Cruiser, then you have the 4Runner, and then you have the Tacoma. It looks less like a luxury piece than the outgoing FJ200 Land Cruiser.
Speaker A
Yeah, that had sort of evolved into a luxury truck. This has more of a retro feel to it. It looks more like the Land Cruisers of the 80s of the 70s. It has some of that feel. It even has some of the feel of the FJ Cruiser. Like the headlights are round on the first edition and on the 1958 model.
Speaker B
So it starts at the 1958 model? That's right, that's the base model. But this, you know, it's fully loaded, but you get those retro round lights. And I love the look of it.
Speaker A
Yeah, for sure it's real upright. I like my SUV's to have upright windshields, lots of glass. If I'm buying an suv, I want it to look like an suv.
Speaker B
But there's also a functional benefit to that. You can see out of thing better. You can look down the side of it when you are off roading. You can see the raised capitals on the hood, you know, where the vehicle stops. So a lot of things that they did, I think were to make it a little bit trimmer off road. Although it still is wide as you said it is.
Speaker A
But yeah, like you said, you can see the corners and there's a lot of glass in there and it's all upright glass. Your view out of it Is wonderful. And it's nice to see that the.
Speaker B
Main difference between this and the GX550 is the engine. That's right. This has the Hybrid 4, the 2.4 liter, making 3.
Speaker A
326, 326, 326 horsepower. Same as the top engine that you can get in the Tacoma. This one did 60 in our testing. In 7.7 seconds, the GX is over a second quicker.
Speaker B
Wow. And it's heavier.
Speaker A
Yeah, It's a significant difference.
Speaker B
It looks great. And I love this military khaki brown with the contrasting gray roof.
Speaker A
Yeah, it's called trail dust is the color that we're looking at. It's sort of khaki. It's got a little tiny bit of olive in it. It's cool. And it sort of goes with the retro feel of it as well.
Speaker B
That's very cool. Yeah. Black 18 inch wheels and 33 inch tires. So it looks capable, but it also looks a little bit like a Nissan Xterra.
Speaker A
Yeah, Nissan exteriors are capable, but yeah.
Speaker B
I think part of it's that roof rack.
Speaker A
That's true. That is adding to it. It's a lot bigger than an Xterra, though. It is big.
Speaker B
But let's go around the back. You have the separate tailgate. You can open the glass independently.
Speaker A
Oh, yeah. That's a Toyota hallmark of being able to open that rear glass.
Speaker B
Super cool.
Speaker A
So even the badging is retro. Instead of having the modern Toyota badge, which looks like a little cowboy hat. Stylized cowboy hat. Toyota is written out. And the font of Land Cruiser is the classic Land Cruiser font. And it's cool. Little touches like that.
Speaker B
And what does this thing tow?
Speaker A
I think it tows £6,000, which is less than the GX550, which has a more powerful powertrain.
Speaker B
One of those cool retro touches is the mud flaps that have little straps holding them in place.
Speaker A
The straps behind them are pretty sure it's really cool.
Speaker B
Okay, let's hop in, check out the interior and drive it. Oh, that's not a real expensive sound.
Speaker A
No, that was a little tinny.
Speaker B
I mean, you would get in the old FJ200 and it was just like a bank vault.
Speaker A
No, it was really nice. Everything was super solid.
Speaker B
Horizontal elevator.
Speaker A
Yeah. And super, super damped. You'd never hear that vibration coming off the door panel.
Speaker B
No, that's real tinny. I think the materials in here are nice enough, but it's clearly that this has been built to a lower price.
Speaker A
Yeah, for sure. And it's way more affordable and the old Land Cruiser priced itself out of relevance. The LX sort of took over that buyer and Toyota to relaunch this, they wanted to actually sell the Land Cruiser, which is shocking.
Speaker B
That one started at 87 grand and it was out of reach for most people. But this one starts at 57 grand. Although the one we're sitting in is $76,000, this first edition. So not such a huge delta from the old F1500.
Speaker A
No, but it's aimed right at the meat of the market. Where the Bronco plays.
Speaker B
Yeah. Where the Wrangler plays.
Speaker A
And interestingly, where are the four runners going to play too? Yeah, yeah. I think Jeep finally found the top of where you can price a Jeep. I think the 392, at over $80,000, I think is pretty much as expensive as an off roader's gonna get.
Speaker B
But have you driven that thing?
Speaker A
It's wild.
Speaker C
It's wild.
Speaker B
It's worth everything.
Speaker A
It's really hilarious.
Speaker B
This is, you know, it's a return to the roots, as you said, of a more affordable Land Cruiser. I think they've positioned it smartly.
Speaker A
Yeah, it's more of a Toyota. The Land Cruiser had sort of turned into a Lexus and then they built a Lexus out of it.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And then Lexus sort of was like, okay, this is our vehicle now. And then the Land Cruiser reinvented itself in a way at 50% less money, basically.
Speaker B
Yeah. I think the interior is, you know, It's a good $50,000 interior.
Speaker A
Some vinyl wrapping here.
Speaker B
Yeah, it looks kind of like leather. It feels a little bit like leather. The gauges look great.
Speaker A
Yeah, it's fully modern in that way, but it's sort of upright in old school Toyota at the same time, too.
Speaker B
Yeah, it feels very utilitarian in here. And there's lots of buttons and knobs which I like. You have a mode select knob here, a drive mode button. You have crawl mode hill descent control. You have your locking center diff. You have your locking rear diff. You have the ability to disconnect the anti roll bars to get more off road traction. You got a switch for high four and low four. So it looks totally legit, but it's also something that you can just drive as an everyday.
Speaker A
Yeah, that's right. And it's the hybrid powertrain shared with Tacoma. So you get a tiny bit of electric power and better fuel economy than GX 550. I think the combined fuel economy number is in the low 20s, around 22 or 23 miles per gallon.
Speaker B
That's pretty good. Well, let's take it off road and see what's up.
Speaker A
All right, buckle up.
Speaker B
We've got our off road flag. We're at Bundy Hill off road park in beautiful Jerome, Michigan. And this is a place where we come to play on occasion. We've taken the Bronco here.
Speaker A
Yeah. We'll bring comparison tests here. Test out vehicles, see how well they can do off road.
Speaker B
I also love. There are a couple handles here.
Speaker A
Oh, yeah. On the A pillar and the a. I mean, look at how upright these A pillars are.
Speaker B
It's great. It's a great panoramic kind of widescreen TV effect. But we are off roading solo. Are you locked up? Are we already stuck in here?
Speaker A
No, we're not stuck. Just creeping through real slow. There's the rear end dipping.
Speaker B
You're still in high four, though.
Speaker A
I'm not quite ready for low.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker A
We just got over our first obstacle. I didn't hear too much scraping.
Speaker B
No. Everything is still in working order.
Speaker A
And now it's in hybrid mode.
Speaker B
Silently creeping through this sand pit here.
Speaker A
That's kind of eerie.
Speaker B
It is weird, but we're saving the environment by trampling on it.
Speaker A
The off road park. I think the speed limit here is 10 miles an hour. I'm going 5 miles an hour very gingerly as we traverse this.
Speaker B
And off roading is the most fun way to go. Five miles an hour.
Speaker A
That's right.
Speaker B
You know, it's funny thinking about this versus the Ford Bronco. The Ford Bronco has all sorts of trick electronic stuff like that trail turn that'll pivot the vehicle, like around a tree and really decreasing the turning radius by breaking the inside wheel. It gives you all sorts of video spotters. But, you know, the Bronco is really going after the Jeep and really trying to out Jeep. The Jeep.
Speaker A
This is not doing that. No, I mean, it still functions as a regular suv. It's pretty quiet on the highway. The fuel economy's decent.
Speaker B
Doesn't have those crazy knobby tires that you get with the Sasquatch package.
Speaker A
They'll leave that to the aftermarket. And the old man emo lift kit.
Speaker C
That's right.
Speaker B
And there will be a healthy, healthy aftermarket for this thing. So what are your first impressions?
Speaker A
It's pretty unfazed. So what's funny is it's a hybrid, so it's doing what hybrids do at low speeds. And we're just running on electric motors. And it's completely silent there. The engine just kicked on.
Speaker B
That's very cool. Oh, it says bottomless dump over there. I don't think we want to. No, that's not over there.
Speaker A
That doesn't look appealing at all. So we're just traversing some off road trails. We've got it all the way up to 12 miles an hour. The ride's really nice, too.
Speaker B
It is nice. It's huge.
Speaker A
It's really plush. Yeah.
Speaker B
Does not beat you up at all.
Speaker A
And on the road, the structure of this truck feels really solid. I was worried it was going to feel like the previous generation Tacoma, which felt like there was no structure underneath you, but it's really solid. But I am missing the old Land Cruiser had this wonderful heavy steering that felt like it was lubed by cold molasses. And it gave the truck this invincible feel almost. And it felt like you were driving this 10,000 pound vehicle just because it forced you to slow down. It forced you to just not put any inputs in that were big. And this one is more normal. So I think people appreciate this, but I kind of miss the old one.
Speaker B
Yeah. The last one is like piloting a cargo ship.
Speaker A
Yes, that's right. That's right.
Speaker B
But I think our biggest risk to life and limb here is cutting a tire on one of these rocks.
Speaker A
That's right. Yeah. It's pretty easy. One of the things that you want in an off roader, too, is a really predictable accelerator pedal so that you can feed in just the right amount of throttle. You can feed in just everything perfectly. And this really does that even in hybrid mode. It just gives you the torque that you need and it's very predictable.
Speaker B
I'm just in the passenger seat right now, but it seems like a pretty easy vehicle to place.
Speaker A
Yeah. I can see every corner of it. I can see exactly where the back window is. I can see the front corners perfectly. And then Toyota has lowered the side glass too, relative to the windshield. So I can see out my door really well, too.
Speaker B
Let's go up.
Speaker A
Let's incline this.
Speaker B
Okay. You might need to modify your settings.
Speaker A
Sure. Let's. Let's lock up the center diff.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker A
And we'll lock up the rear diff. Couple of buttons.
Speaker B
Why not? Belt and suspenders.
Speaker A
On a pair of Sansa belts.
Speaker B
Let's see.
Speaker A
Let's put it in dirt.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker A
It doesn't have an air suspension, so we're not lifting it. The ground clearance stays at 8.7 inches no matter what you do. Unless you put larger tires on it. So now we're climbing this grade. It's not having any trouble Whatsoever.
Speaker B
No, that's super easy.
Speaker A
There's some big rocks at the end of it. It also has a big skid plate up front, too. All right, this is a little more treacherous on the downslope, so we're going to put it in. Let's see how their hill descent control works. Call it DAC crawl. So if we hit the crawl button, we can adjust the max speed that it's going to go. So let's go all the way down to 2. You can go as high as 18 as well.
Speaker B
That seems.
Speaker A
So it's going to use brakes. It's going to use the brakes to slow us down here.
Speaker B
Yeah. 18 seems a little.
Speaker A
Yeah, that's a little aggressive. Oh, and it's holding it right at two. Oh, I just saw three, but we're going back to two. Oh, it's just so easy. It takes all the thought out of it.
Speaker B
It's like an autonomous vehicle.
Speaker A
All I have to do is steer and avoid the really big ruts. Not exactly new technology, but adjusting it's cool. Let's climb this little hill here. It looks like it's pretty steep up top. So it's going to test the breakover angle, which is actually better than the old Land Cruiser.
Speaker B
Right. It has the same approach angle as the old one, but a better breakover angle.
Speaker A
Yeah, and on the same wheelbase. We're at the top making a tight left. It's going to lean a little, go back into the ght crawl and just make this super easy on ourselves. Parking warning.
Speaker B
Rock ahead. Nice.
Speaker A
Okay, that was easy.
Speaker B
That's good stuff.
Speaker A
Nothing's been easy so far, which is good.
Speaker B
Can I take a. Yeah, you want to try it a go?
Speaker A
Watch the door slam.
Speaker B
Oh, there it is again.
Speaker A
I don't know what your Uber passenger rating is, but mine's pretty high because I don't slam the doors. So I'm not really even pushing. I'm not even slamming the door that hard and it's making that noise.
Speaker B
Yeah. That's a great tip. By the way. Don't slam your Uber driver's door.
Speaker A
Yeah, you won't get a five star rating.
Speaker B
I'll be down. That looks a little.
Speaker A
That looks a little too atv.
Speaker B
Yeah, it's a little narrow.
Speaker A
Yeah. The electric assist allows this four cylinder to bump up to 465 pound feet of torque, but it does have a really small battery. And the pedal's nice.
Speaker B
It is nice and it's very easy to modulate.
Speaker A
Oh, there's another breakover angle test.
Speaker B
There we go. No Problem. I'm going to do it old style hill descent just by braking. That's a little bit more fun. But that wasn't all that challenging. I like that there's no steering kickback.
Speaker A
That's true.
Speaker B
Yeah. You're not getting any weird kind of phases where the steering goes light or it kicks back in your hand.
Speaker A
Right. I haven't seen it snap once. And we're going over stuff that's kicking the body around for sure.
Speaker B
But good tip off roading. Do not hook your thumbs into the spokes of the wheel like you might do on road. Because if there is kickback to break your thumbs or at least give you a little zets.
Speaker A
Oh, wow. I think we're getting a little crazy.
Speaker B
I think we are.
Speaker A
I wouldn't go in there.
Speaker B
Okay, let me back up.
Speaker A
You can turn around.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker A
There's a sign on a tree that says wild.
Speaker B
This is where that trail turn feature on the Bronco would really help.
Speaker A
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B
Because I'm making a 14 point turn here. Try not to hit the trees.
Speaker A
This is where spotters would help as well.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
But the plushness of the ride is really pretty sharp. There's not even that much head toss.
Speaker B
Right.
Speaker A
I'm not getting thrown around that much. It's got all this initial compliance.
Speaker B
Break over angle test.
Speaker A
Break over angle test.
Speaker B
Pretty incredible.
Speaker A
There it goes. And then you can see the corner perfectly, which allowed you to avoid that tree.
Speaker B
Very, very tight turning radius, which is nice.
Speaker A
It really makes everything seem pretty easy.
Speaker B
I know, it really is easy. Yeah. These mirrors are great because you can see both sides of the car the whole way down. It really is good spotting.
Speaker A
Oh, we have an inclinometer.
Speaker B
There's a nice little inclinometer like the Mitsubishi Montero.
Speaker A
I think the really old Land Cruisers had that too.
Speaker B
That's a great touch.
Speaker A
That's nice.
Speaker B
Okay, let's exit out of here.
Speaker A
Well, I haven't heard it scrape once.
Speaker B
Well, I don't know if that's talented. Too soon.
Speaker A
I don't know if that's our driving talent or the breakover angle on the ground clearance. Oh, there it is. There's the front.
Speaker B
Oh, nice. Oh, look at that. Okay, so this front camera gives you kind of a ghosted view of your front wheel angle.
Speaker A
Yeah, it's like the car is gone in front of you and you just see the tires.
Speaker B
That's wild. I don't want to spend too much time looking at it though.
Speaker A
I think you should drive the rest of the time with it. No, it's really cool. I mean, you have an onboard spotter. It kicks off at about five miles an hour or six miles an hour, though.
Speaker B
Very cool.
Speaker A
As it figures, if you're going that quickly.
Speaker B
I think a spotter. I think we decently challenged this thing and it came through with flying colors.
Speaker A
It's super easy.
Speaker B
Did not break a sweat.
Speaker A
No.
Speaker B
And like you said, it is extraordinarily comfortable inside.
Speaker A
I'm shocked at how comfortable it is. I've gone off roading and stuff and just been made nauseated because you get thrown around so much. It's hard to believe that the dimensions are so similar to the old Land Cruiser because this feels so much tidier and so much smaller when you're driving it. And some of that's a function of the control feel and the lighter steering, but it just feels way more manageable out here. And this is not an off road course that's designed for really wide vehicles, aren't there?
Speaker B
No. And you sit a little bit higher. It feels like there's a much higher H point in this vehicle.
Speaker A
Yeah, I think that's some of. That's the lower glass on the side windows. It's not quite the original Range Rover where if you were driving down the road, people could see your hips, but at least people can see it.
Speaker B
They can see your wallet.
Speaker A
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B
But incredibly comfortable, incredibly smooth and at odds with the tinny sound of the doors. So I think the ride refinement is extraordinary.
Speaker A
It is. It's shocking.
Speaker B
It's very fun.
Speaker A
I mean, this is cool, the fact.
Speaker B
That this can do all this without really breaking a sweat and perform all the functions you need of a regular sort of family vehicle without paying much price for it on the road.
Speaker A
It's pretty nice on the road. And you were mentioning that the steering doesn't kick you back here, which usually means that the steering is completely aloof and numb on road. And it's not. It's pretty responsive. It's easy to drive on the highway. It's super easy to keep in your lane. It works really well. I always feel like when I can't find my way out of one of these places, it's like a little Blair Witch project.
Speaker B
Just go to the cottage at the back of the cottage.
Speaker A
Like, I'm pretty sure we just passed that lake. We crossed over that lake seven times.
Speaker B
For some reason, Toyota knows what they're doing off road. Executing something like this that has such a dual nature, it's pretty spectacular.
Speaker A
This is quickly going to turn into a lost scenario where we find out. We've died and are in this off road park for the rest of our existence.
Speaker B
Yeah. When we get out of here, it'll be 2063.
Speaker A
And there'll still be a Toyota Land Cruiser.
Speaker B
Yeah. This will have gone up in value tremendously.
Speaker A
Oh, that looks like an exit.
Speaker B
I see the ramshackle buildings. I see the corrugated tin huts.
Speaker A
We didn't die.
Speaker B
No. We're back among the living.
Speaker A
Well, we still don't know what year it is. Who knows what year it is out there? All right, we made it. Good.
Speaker B
Good. That was fun.
Speaker A
It was fun. It was surprisingly easy.
Speaker B
I know. I mean, we didn't go up the 85% grade.
Speaker A
No. We didn't do anything too crazy. But we did test out the ground clearance and the breakover angle and the approach angle and the departure angle and.
Speaker B
And you know what's also incredible is how quiet this thing is. Everything has a great kind of veneer of refinement.
Speaker A
You don't hear the structure creaking at all.
Speaker B
Not at all. Any of that.
Speaker A
You don't hear the suspension moving around. A lot of off roaders. You just constantly hear the suspension moving around.
Speaker B
Felt like there was no torsional weirdness. Good stuff. Banken Park. All right, cool. We may have made it out of the sand pit, but we aren't out of the woods yet with this new Land Cruiser. Luckily, after the break, we're sitting down with Toyota's Marcus Umlauf to answer our lingering questions about the truck. Welcome back to Car and drivers into Cars.
Speaker A
To answer some of our lingering questions, we're joined today by Marcus Umlauf, Toyota's general manager in charge of truck strategy. That means Marcus looks over the Tundra and Tacoma pickups, the Sequoia, the 4Runner, and the Land Cruiser SUVs. If it's body on frame and it's a Toyota, Marcus is responsible for it. An avid off roader, Marcus developed Toyota racing development vehicles in Australia before making the move to the United States. Welcome to Into Cars, Marcus.
Speaker C
Hey, Tony. Great to be here.
Speaker B
So, Marcus, as head of strategy for Toyota Truck, let's talk a little bit about Land Cruiser Strategy while the LX600 continues on the 300 series version of TNGA F. This is on the 250. It's less luxury oriented. So why did you guys make that switch and put the land Cruiser on 250 instead of 300?
Speaker C
It's a really luxurious position to be in to say we've got a lot of choices. And a lot of this came from the new platform. So as we developed the new F1 platform, this is the first time we've been able to come up with a platform for all of our trucks at the same time. And really considering like how would this execute as a full size pickup, as a midsize pickup, as a Lexus product or a Toyota product. And I think being able to start with that clean sheet of saying what should that platform be that's going to serve all of these different purposes. It was a really good opportunity. Stepping back from there, we now have a bunch of tools. So we say, okay, so I mean the platform lead was 300 series Landcruiser. So that was the first vehicle on the platform, very closely followed by Tundra. We had Sequoia lx, really. So rounding out that full size execution on the that platform, then we said, okay, how do we do a slightly smaller version of that 250 series was a case of saying, and the way I best sort of frame this is we have global vehicle with landcruiser and we have a lot of regional vehicles. So let's say Sequoia 4Runner. They are very, let's call it North American specific. So we've got the benefit here of saying, hey, we've got a global truck in landcruiser. We also have a full size SUV in Sequoia. And now for the first time, Sequoia gets a lot of the benefits of 300 Series Land Cruiser already built into the truck, but at a scale that really is for the US market. So it was a chance and from the very outset of saying, hey look, what should LandCruiser be? How do we take LandCruiser back to its origins? And really the LC250 is really ideally where that should be.
Speaker B
I do have a follow up question to that, Marcus. Was there any internal concern about moving from an 8 to a 4 and going lower in price and changing the sort of brand position and aligning it more with Tacoma 4Runner. Did anybody feel like they were devaluing the vehicle?
Speaker C
I don't think so. And I think at its very simplest it's recognizing who the landcruiser customers really are. I mean landcruiser has been a nameplate that has been around for so long. People that know landcruiser love landcruiser. And frankly, I mean landcruiser had really started to drift to become something that really wasn't the origins of landcruiser. I mean we were selling a handful of vehicles a year. It was a fantastic truck, but it was to a very small part of the market. And so how do we take it back to where it should be? We want to be able to have a truck that's more accessible for price point, a truck that has the right spec for people in terms of what they actually want to do with the landcruiser. And so it was a great opportunity for us to bring that back.
Speaker A
So, Marcus, now that the Land Cruiser has moved down in price point, it moves a little closer to four Runner. So how does the Land Cruiser fit into the lineup with the newly announced 4Runner?
Speaker C
These are two tools to compete in one really competitive segment. So if I looked back historically, we had four Runner, which was one tool to compete against everything. The rugged SUV space. I mean, it's super competitive, super passionate. There's some great product in there. And we had one tool to compete there. It was very intentional to say, if we have two tools, how do they both play there? So we have the global tool with landcruiser, which has the heritage. It's more boxy, it's more rugged, it really has that global DNA. And then how do we take Forerunner back to be also? Forerunner is really a story of return to its roots. If we look at 1st and 2nd gen 4runner, it used to be tied to the pickup truck. So it's a little cheeky or it's a little sportier. It was important to us to say they have to have their own role. So Forerunner has got a. A wider range of powertrains. So it really is the higher volume, broader coverage type vehicle, which is our regional truck. I mean, it very much is a North American truck. We then have the global truck, which is so globally renowned, but it's a simpler strategy. So it's really a case of if you want a Land Cruiser, you buy a Land Cruiser. Forerunner really appeals to a whole bunch of other people. But at the end of the day, I think it's going to boil down to choice. People just have two great products that they can really choose which is the best fit for them.
Speaker B
So it's our understanding that Toyota, and I don't know if you can confirm or deny this while still keeping your job, has an internal measure for durability that has three categories. Cars are the first category as the least rugged and durable. The second category is a higher level up for most of the truck line. And the highest level, the most durable third tier with something like a 10 year lifespan of never being driven on paved road. Does the Landcruiser still abide by that? In this 250 iteration.
Speaker C
Eddie, first and foremost, I really love my job, so I'm not going to do anything to compromise that, okay? So I'm going to do everything I can to keep my job. But landcruiser is a fascinating nameplate and without going on too much of a tangent, there is a huge amount of respect for it and a huge amount of honestly responsibility to protect what that is. And so I think you're exactly right that there are levels of durability and severity that all of our vehicles are tested to. As you can imagine, we have globally so much variation in terms of markets, in terms of usage, in terms of expectation, and vehicles need to be developed appropriately. What I'd best sum up with landcruiser is we understand the customer really well and we make sure that landcruiser is a landcruiser. And so when it comes to specifications and things like that, it's not as simple as saying this must survive 10 years. It must say, okay, how is the customer using this truck? And then what is their expectation to survive? So when we look at severity, the way that we rate severity, there's so many different things. Is it about heat, is it about dust, is it about water, is it about how rough that road is? And we talk about Toyota's renowned for Genji Gambuts. So go and see. And very much this is almost the epitome of you gotta go and see it, you've gotta go and talk to these customers. You've gotta be in a crocodile infested river in Australia, you've gotta be in a mine site somewhere, you've gotta be sort of in the middle of the sand dunes somewhere to really understand how are people using these vehicles. And it's not a case of saying, here's just one test that does it. It's a case saying if I know how the customer is using this and their expectation to, it's not just it'll get me there, but it will get me back. And it's easy to repair that it's reliable. That if that really is the core tenet, if we know what they do and we protect that someone can trust a landcruiser to do it. That's really what it boils down to. I'm not dodging the question there. As opposed to as much as it's a case of saying there's so many layers, what we just need to do is make sure that we can actually test to that we might create a new test of saying, hey, we just saw that someone in a mine site in Australia is basically catching all of this mud underneath this truck and is pulling wiring harnesses off. How do we make sure that we test for that? And so it's really a case of saying what's the real world test, not necessarily just the standardized test that would be run.
Speaker A
Can you talk about the decision to kill the land Cruiser in 2021? Why not continue to build it until the new one came out? Did you have to kill it to relaunch it? What was the story there? Because LX came out pretty quickly.
Speaker C
It did. And Tony, we didn't kill Land Cruiser. Land Cruiser had little pause until it was ready to come back. And that's really how it played out. And a lot of it was Cadencer platform. So as that full size platform went to 300 series, obviously our 200 series stopped. So we had to cease with production of 200 series. As it rolled out there, it was really Sequoia was our next product which was coming to fit into that space. So full size body on frame, rugged SUV. We now have the benefits of that 300 series development. Sequoia comes out there. I think a lot of what people couldn't see coming was like, don't worry, we have an answer. And I'll tell you a funny story. I was speaking at the Land Cruiser Museum and so at the time we killed Land Cruiser and they basically said, you're either the bravest guy or the dumbest guy to turn up into a whole audience of Land Cruiser enthusiasts after killing the landcruiser. But I couldn't tell them what was coming. And knowing full well that landcruiser was coming back in the form that it really should be in for the US market was really exciting. And so I'd sort of call it. It was really a pause until the product Cadence could actually get it back into there. But it was really a pause rather than a death.
Speaker B
Markus, you've spoken a little bit about how Toyota adapts different cars and different platforms, different trucks to different environments in different countries and different use cases. Can you talk a little bit about how Australia is different from the US in terms of how they use their vehicles? What is the off roading culture like? I mean, is there a lot of cosplay where, you know, people get the most rugged G wagon or whatever they can and just drive it to Erewhon or whatever like in the U.S. absolutely.
Speaker C
So probably the number one thing in Australia is you assume that everything's going to kill you. So if you start with that assumption, then everything's poisonous. That's right, exactly. So you sort of start with that assumption.
Speaker A
The Erewhan in Australia is lethal.
Speaker C
The fascinating thing about the Australian market, and this is why, I mean, I've got a lot of Australian experience, but here permanently in the US because there is so many similarities in terms of the lifestyle and what people do with their trucks and SUVs is very similar. So people really want to enable a lifestyle with this. So whether it's their pickup trucks, whether it's their SUV's they want to be able to tow, they haul, they use it for vacation, they use it for off roading. So there's a huge recreational culture. There's also a very practical culture as well, that these are a tool of trade for many people. And so I think there's a lot of similarities in how people use it or why they want to use it. The differences really probably come in into the environment and just how far. The biggest difference that I draw here is it's really hard to find two gas stations in the US that are all that far away from each other. You might struggle to find maybe 100 miles or something like that. There's places in Australia where you'll actually go and travel and you have to carry extra fuel because it is the distance is too much. So a lot of it is the distance, it's the remote nature and frankly the fact that, I mean if you do get stuck out there, you die. It's a pretty remote and dangerous place to be. But the reason why people are doing it is really similar.
Speaker A
Marcus, how long are we going to see body on frame vehicles in the mass market? Is it going to be like the old 911 story where the line just goes on and on and on and on and on and on forever. And yeah, I guess if you make them heavy enough, they escape some regulations too. So is the future really bright for body on frame vehicles at Toyota?
Speaker C
So, Danny, I'd get a little philosophical with you and say what is body on frame? And it's really a case of you're marrying a platform with a different upper body. And when we actually look at even where a lot of dedicated EVs have gone, they got a skateboard that marry with an upper body. It's really more about what's the evolution of platforms that you can electrify a platform, you can still have the ruggedness and the strength that you can go off roading, that you can actually still still have a 13,000, 12,000 pound towing capacity, you still can haul. So I think it's going to be, how do you have platforms that evolve to be able to do that? But I think necessarily it's not a case of body on frame evolution. It's really a case of how do you marry a platform with an upper body in a smart way?
Speaker A
Well, that's interesting. And I think you're going to have to sell the customers on that because they expect body on frame to look a certain way. And there's also a theory that American cars were never comfortable not being body on frame. That's why Americans love body on frame. So basically, a Cadillac Escalade is very close to a 70s car. I mean, it's a V8 and a body on frame. So that's something Americans are very comfortable with and understand. So even when it evolves, I think you're going to have to convince customers.
Speaker C
For sure. For sure. And at the end of the day, I'd also argue, I think there's a large group of customers that just want to have the right end product. I think there's a lot of enthusiasts that understand the architecture of their vehicle. There's a lot of others that probably come along and say, does it have the performance? Does it have the strength? Does it have the space? I think if you could execute a really good product for the customer, whether it's an SUV or a pickup truck and you've got a slightly different architecture, sure, you're going to have some people that will sort of debate how you got there. There's also a lot of people. If you can do it right and you don't make them compromise, then I think they're really going to judge the end product and how that comes out.
Speaker A
Marcus, I hear you have a 72 Scout project. How's that coming along? What can you tell us about that?
Speaker C
So you're not going to give me a hard time for it not being a Toyota? It's okay. No, not at all.
Speaker A
There's a new scout coming, too.
Speaker C
But what do they say about the forbidden fruit in a world of when there's Land Cruisers everywhere and then you come to the US and you find something new and unique? It's pretty exciting. And actually a little bit of the backstory is our first family tractor in Australia was a 1939 International H model. And so I had an affinity. I said, hang on. So here's a really cool truck by a tractor company that I have an affinity to. So I had to buy it. So this was a Covid project. The price was right and I completely undersold the amount of time to my wife it was going to take to work on it, but it's been a great project with my boys to really sort of teach a 16 year old how a carburetor works and rebuild the carburettor and a motor and I just love the simplicity of something designed by a tractor company. It had a 196 and I got a 345 and literally the 196 is just half of a 392. So the valve train comes across. I mean they just left four cylinders off so.
Speaker A
Oh yeah, it had that giant four cylinder engine.
Speaker C
Absolutely. So I got it with that. But it was literally half a V8. So it's. You can use so many parts. So anyway, without geeking out, I just love the, the practicality of a tractor company that says we're going to use the same parts. We'll just build four cylinders and V8s and it's. Yeah.
Speaker A
So it's a necessity.
Speaker C
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B
Just like Lamborghini.
Speaker A
My favorite design element inside is that the Land Cruiser says Toyota written out in script instead of having the Toyota badge inside on the airbag hub. So I saw that and I was like, yes, they got it right. They know what's what.
Speaker C
That's awesome. That's awesome. But I've got to tell you, Tony, I was really excited when I saw the very first concept sketch with Kevin Hunter and the Kelty 2 team. Little side story. The thing that's really exciting is the concept and what came out the other side are so similar. So sometimes when you actually put it through the big sausage making machine, I mean things really get diluted. You lose a lot of the emotion and passion. But when I very first saw that, I go, I can see FJ62, I can see FJ80. And this is really at the height of when everyone's paying way too much money for 97 triple lock 80 series during COVID it was just cool to actually see the truck and go, so it's super modern but basically it totally. Without trying to be a retro ripoff, without trying to be the old Land Cruisers. It still has the DNA of Land Cruiser. And as much as you say it, as much as you engineer it, it's really cool when you sort of see a bit of that too.
Speaker A
It seems like from the outside that you guys have an easier time slipping through truck designs like the FJ Cruiser that went from concept to production and not that much was changed. But I don't necessarily see that in the cars, but the trucks they seem to get through. True. Unchanged from the original designs, which is really cool.
Speaker C
We're very, very lucky, especially in the U.S. where, I mean, truck is so unique to the U.S. market. We've got such a fantastic team between Newport beach and Ann Arbor.
Speaker B
Well, next time you're in Ann Arbor at the R D facility, we're right up the street.
Speaker A
So yeah, come have lunch with us.
Speaker C
All right.
Speaker A
All right. We'll bother you with a lot of annoying nitty gritty questions about stuff.
Speaker C
All right. It's a date.
Speaker A
Thanks, Marcus.
Speaker B
Thank you.
Speaker C
Thanks Ghost.
Speaker B
That interview was brought to you by ebay motors. Visit ebaymotors.com for more.
Speaker A
Car friends the Toyota Land Cruiser's resurrection as a less expensive off road Focus SUV strikes me as a good idea. The new Land Cruiser proved itself off road and handled everything we threw at it. The old Land Cruiser had priced itself out of relevance. Bringing the Land Cruiser back will undoubtedly prove to be a wise move for Toyota.
Speaker B
Undoubtedly. But I missed the old one. I liked its under the radar luxury. We've already got a four Runner. Why do we need this thing?
Speaker A
Well, you can still get it as a Lexus, I guess.
Speaker B
Yeah, but I don't want the Lexus.
Speaker A
For more on the new Toyota land Cruiser, visit carandriver.com and be sure to pick up the latest issue of Car and Driver magazine. Well Eddie, that's a wrap on the first season of Car and Drivers into cars. We got to experience experienced some seriously interesting and compelling new vehicles over the last six episodes. From the Lamborghini Huracan Sterrato to the most expensive Cadillac ever to Toyota's reimagined Land Cruiser.
Speaker B
We hope that you had fun riding along with us and learning from the folks who helped create the cars. Each week brought surprises and a few laughs. If you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts and stay tuned for season two.
Speaker A
Car Drivers Into Cars is a of version production of Karen Driver in iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio. Our show is hosted by Eddie Alterman and myself, Tony Quiroga. Our executive producer is Matt Romano. Our EP of post production is Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Sierra Kaiser. This show was edited by Sierra Spreen. Special thanks to our location sound recordist Matthew Sisco. Thanks for listening.