Human-Centered AI Strategy: Empathy, Trust, Access | Professor Chesa Caparas

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Coming up in this episode of the Innovating Higher Ed Podcast, Dr. Norma Jones

spk_0 welcomes Professor Chesa Caparis of Deanza College, a leading expert in media

spk_0 literacy and AI strategy for higher education. Drawing on her

spk_0 international education and research as a full-bright scholar in the Philippines

spk_0 on social media disinformation, Chesa lays out a framework for introducing AI

spk_0 that respects academic integrity, supports overworked educators, and bridges

spk_0 global connectivity gaps. Join us as we boldly explore new frontiers in

spk_0 educational innovation.

spk_0 I'm here with Professor Chesa Caparis from Deanza College. Thank you so much for

spk_0 having me and for providing space to have these conversations. Thank you for

spk_0 joining me on this podcast. So one of the most impressive and important things

spk_0 that I learned from you hearing you speak and from our prior conversations is

spk_0 that it's an interesting balance that human teacher, fellow human being, that

spk_0 like we constantly have to juggle. How do you think this might affect teachers?

spk_0 Because one of the most impressive important things that I've taken with me

spk_0 and kind of it has changed my way of thinking about AI and education is that

spk_0 faculty have not only the right, but we should be able to mourn. Things have

spk_0 changed. Yeah. And that we need that space. And how do you think that all goes

spk_0 together? Because do we as teachers need that empathy as well? Do we as teachers

spk_0 need that space? Yes, definitely. And that's like every time I lead like AI

spk_0 professional development for educators, I always start with like let's

spk_0 acknowledge that we're all burned out. I haven't met a single teacher that

spk_0 thought COVID was the best thing to happen to teaching. Right? You know,

spk_0 educators might have enjoyed certain parts of it. They're like, yeah, I get to

spk_0 like teach in my pajamas from home or I don't have to commute anymore. Like

spk_0 sure there were aspects of it. But ultimately like it was so stressful. There

spk_0 was so much pressure on us, right? So much blame about like what the hell are you

spk_0 even doing for our students, for our kids? I think K through 12 had a harder time.

spk_0 You know, a community college level, right? Like we had to basically change how we

spk_0 did things overnight. I had some colleagues who prior to COVID had never used

spk_0 like a learning management system had, you know, never taught online. And so when

spk_0 they transition, they're like, you know what? I'm just gonna have my students email

spk_0 me all their assignments. I'm like, no, sounds terrifying. I was like, that sounds like

spk_0 like an administrative nightmare. I was like, good luck to you. But like I don't

spk_0 think I can do that. Like the empathy that I have for the students, I definitely

spk_0 try to have for my colleagues because you know, we were all in it. Like we like we

spk_0 had to retool everything. We had to learn new technologies. We had to learn new

spk_0 teaching strategies like new pedagogy basically. Like how do you engage somebody?

spk_0 And do you make them turn the camera on? Do you not? You know, what is the like

spk_0 equitable thing to do? Right? You know, how do you get them to like just even

spk_0 participate? And being that sort of like humanizing heart-centered teacher, it's

spk_0 like how do you create a safe space for them to tell you what's going on? While

spk_0 you're also holding space for yourself and everything is going on. So when I

spk_0 talk about AI, I always start with like, look, if you don't have capacity to

spk_0 rethink what you're doing, that is okay. Right? If you are terrified and don't want

spk_0 to think about how to redo what you're doing because you're already exhausted by

spk_0 having to redo it, I understand, you know, like acknowledge that, like take

spk_0 care of yourself, however you need to take care of yourself. And I always say like

spk_0 my goal isn't to force everybody to adopt AI. My goal as any educator is to

spk_0 give information and knowledge so that people feel empowered to make their own

spk_0 decisions with how they're going to use it, if they're going to use it. But then

spk_0 it's also important for us. I'm about to lead a professional development

spk_0 workshop and I sent out like a pre-survey where I was like, what do you want to

spk_0 talk about? Like what would be most useful? And of course there's a lot of

spk_0 angry responses. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all students are they're cheating.

spk_0 They're not thinking anymore. And I can understand where those responses are

spk_0 coming from. But I also think it makes certain assumptions about where our

spk_0 students are. You know, it makes assumptions that like they don't want to do

spk_0 the work because they have no morals, which is not necessarily the case. Maybe

spk_0 they don't have capacity to do the work. They're driving their grandmother to

spk_0 the hospital and working 12 hour shifts and then coming home and taking care of

spk_0 their own kids. And that's the thing that I try to remind our colleagues about

spk_0 is that we need to have empathy for ourselves. And likewise like have some empathy

spk_0 or compassion for what our students might be going through. That leads them to

spk_0 make choices around AI usage. That is such a holistic way of looking at it. I

spk_0 feel like you hit it dead on. It's not teacher versus student versus AI versus

spk_0 administration, right? It's really us all grappling together to figure out how to

spk_0 move forward to get there as human beings. And when you told me that I think I

spk_0 don't know if you saw my brain blow up at the time. But I think I did one of

spk_0 those like hard resets, why is it for a minute? And it was such a brilliant way of

spk_0 thinking about it because I have a bad habit of just jumping in the deep end. Right?

spk_0 I'm one of those is let's just try this. This helped me reframe it in a way that

spk_0 was so smart that to be able to really consider the whole human and teachers as

spk_0 humans, students as humans, that this is all something that we're grappling with.

spk_0 And how do we have empathy and heart centered for everybody that helped me so

spk_0 much? And I really wanted to share that with everybody. One of the coolest things

spk_0 I think too is that once we think about it this way, right? That it is about how

spk_0 to help. Then once you get that out there, this is something you can try. Hey,

spk_0 we're all in this together. Do you feel like teachers are a little bit less

spk_0 apprehensive? What are you seeing? I think that a lot of times folks start off

spk_0 resistant to me or any AI professional development opportunity because they see

spk_0 it as somebody shoving AI down their throat. Like that's definitely a phrase I've

spk_0 heard over and over again. People are shoving it down my throat. And I get it. If I

spk_0 wasn't on this side of it, like knowing what I know, I would probably feel the same way.

spk_0 Right? Like there's so many mandates that we have to comply with. But once I say,

spk_0 like, hey, I'm just a skeptical and afraid of AI as all of you, which is why I've decided

spk_0 to learn how to use it. I think it like kind of softens them a little bit or at least says,

spk_0 okay, maybe I want to hear what she has to say. Because I think it's full of problems.

spk_0 Right? I think there's so many. There's like bias. And this is what I've been studying

spk_0 even before chat. If you came out like, yeah, yeah, there's bias. There's like, you

spk_0 know, social behavioral manipulations that can be done with it, that have been done

spk_0 with it. Right? There's disinformation. There's so many different ways that it has eroded,

spk_0 like the glue of our civilization, which is why I'm like, we need to understand how it

spk_0 works. So we can try and repair that. You know, it's not that I think like, hey, here's

spk_0 a shiny AI tool. Everybody learn how to use it. It's like, hey, here's a shiny AI tool

spk_0 that people are trying to sell you. Let's figure out why they're trying to sell it to you

spk_0 and how they're actually benefiting from it in a way that may or may not hurt us. And how

spk_0 do we push back slash like educate ourselves so that we're not like taking advantage of

spk_0 by these new technologies? Could we talk about that as a full-by-scallery? What you studied

spk_0 how you addressed that because one of the most important things I think about social media

spk_0 is that we are the commodity. We are being packaged in soul. Right? And what you talked about,

spk_0 how AI potentially is doing that at a grander scale. And that's why it's so scary.

spk_0 So my research, I decided on the Philippines. I had applied for the Fulbright in 2019. I just

spk_0 wanted to look at the role that social media and algorithms was playing on the role that it had

spk_0 in disinformation and education. But you know, that was 2019. And then I got accepted for the Fulbright

spk_0 in February of 2020. And then you know, it happened in March of 2020, which is everything shut down.

spk_0 So my project had to switch. And then I reframed my project because it looked like I was going to be

spk_0 able to go in 2022 when the next national elections were going to happen in the Philippines. And it

spk_0 was a very, very contentious election. There's a lot of disinformation circulating about candidates.

spk_0 And I was curious like how people were navigating that, how educators were trying to teach media

spk_0 and information literacy, what was the impact on like a sense of democracy or even just on

spk_0 democratic processes. There was a bunch of learning loss that was documented in 2022, the year that I

spk_0 went a report on learning poverty in Southeast Asia and the Philippines, I think ranked the lowest

spk_0 in terms of reading proficiency. It's a country that has like the highest penetration of Facebook

spk_0 in the world. For several years in a row, Philippines ranked number one in countries who's like

spk_0 people who spent time online as in like Filipino spent the most time online in the world. So you

spk_0 have tons of time online, a lot of you know, social media usage and this very contentious national

spk_0 election that is sort of riddled with disinformation. So that's why I decided to study that. But

spk_0 primarily I was looking at educators and what was the impact of trying to teach media information

spk_0 literacy given this climate. And as we were talking about before, one of the biggest takeaways I

spk_0 had is that there is so much pressure put on teachers to you know, sort of fix society's problems

spk_0 to sort of like teach students how to understand information and make better choices. And yet

spk_0 the educators themselves don't have the resources. If you think about how many more people get their

spk_0 information from social media, from the internet like in the classroom, it's a huge uphill battle.

spk_0 And these tools are designed that way, right? Like social media is designed to capture our attention.

spk_0 How is a teacher supposed to compete with the infinite scroll of TikTok? You can't. And then of

spk_0 course during the pandemic, a lot of us tried, right? I got a TikTok. I started making educational

spk_0 content on social media to try and keep my students engaged. But it's good for some things, but

spk_0 long form journalism, you know, like quarter semester long educational experiences in community

spk_0 with other human beings have so much importance in someone's educational development, you know,

spk_0 their intellectual and social development. One of the things I learned is how difficult it is

spk_0 for teachers. And that's I think a lot of what informed why I always opened my professional

spk_0 development works with like empathy and compassion for educators. That was the biggest takeaway from

spk_0 my research was, you know, I used the term emotional labor by Arlie Russell-Hoschchild, which gets

spk_0 misused a lot because people think it just means that you like work with your feelings. And that's not

spk_0 the same thing. I mean, it's like an entire book and a lot of sort of applications of it.

spk_0 Basically, it just means how we sort of manage our feelings in order to appear professional,

spk_0 right? So as educators, we have to repackage or tamp down our feelings of like anxiety,

spk_0 fear, distrust, you know, all of these things in order to seem like we know what we're doing.

spk_0 And her, you know, her research, she looks at like flight attendants and a lot of people who work

spk_0 in service industry whose job it is to pretend they're providing a service happily, right? Even

spk_0 if someone's treating them like garbage, you know. And this is so important. You talked about fixing

spk_0 societies problems. And I see so many teachers. I think you and I both give multiple professional

spk_0 developments. And what's interesting is even at my school, even at various places where I feel that

spk_0 teachers are constantly saying, how do I check that we have authentic learning? How do I check

spk_0 that we're not overreliant on AI? How do I check for these things? And multiple times, I've said,

spk_0 I've tried to convince people, this is a global problem. Just like the Facebook. And I'm seeing

spk_0 late societies, potentially, social media, communicate emotions in societies. And how do we as

spk_0 mere teachers stand up, right? To something like that and try to fix it for our students. And we

spk_0 really want to because that's the core of what we do. Yeah. Juggling that anxiety. If I have to

spk_0 make sure that my students learn something from this and to make sure that they aren't overtaken by

spk_0 it. And to fix heavy quotation marks, a problem that the world is grappling with. I see a lot of

spk_0 parallels between what you saw in the Philippines and what we're dealing with now. Yeah. And especially

spk_0 as we are facing a lot of attacks on education. So not only is there a lot of pressure for us to do

spk_0 this work, but at the same time, like we're losing funding for some of the ways that we have found

spk_0 that research has shown are actually helpful for student success. We're losing credibility.

spk_0 There's financial under resourcing, but there's also cultural under resourcing. It's just a double

spk_0 edge sword. It feels like our hands are tied sometimes. And how do we ensure or even evaluate

spk_0 authentic learning? And I think this is another reason why I opened with the caveat. If you don't have

spk_0 capacity for this, it's okay. I mean, this has been years in the making, but generative AI has

spk_0 really forced the conversation around what the hell are we actually assessing when we're creating

spk_0 assessments? Like I teach English. And so our bread and butter is the essay. It's like what the

spk_0 what exactly am I trying to evaluate through an essay? You know, and I'm not saying that they're

spk_0 pointless. I'm saying that we have to reflect on what exactly is the purpose of each of our assessments.

spk_0 Right. And we also have to ask ourselves like what does learning even mean? Right. Because like

spk_0 learning and intelligence, I think we have to update or at least have like really thoughtful

spk_0 conversations about what we mean by intelligence. Because like one form of intelligence is just like

spk_0 how do you apply knowledge in one area to new contexts? And so in that sense, when my students

spk_0 are using generative AI to complete an assignment, you might consider that a form of intelligence.

spk_0 Right. Because they are like, oh, there's this new tool. I can use this new tool to get this job done.

spk_0 And getting this job done equals success. Therefore, it's an intelligence because there like here's

spk_0 a tool that helps you get it done faster. Of course, if you have a policy or you have a certain

spk_0 expectation, you know, could say that that's cheating. I also think that that's why we have to have

spk_0 a steeper conversation around what does it mean to demonstrate intelligence? What does it mean to

spk_0 demonstrate learning? And one example that I have been kind of thinking about one of my kids,

spk_0 our youngest is a senior in high school and you know, it's going to major, it wants to major in

spk_0 computer science. And lately, he has been writing a bot that can be Tetris. I know. And it's

spk_0 interesting because my initial reaction was like, but don't you like playing Tetris? Right. Don't

spk_0 you enjoy Tetris? And he's like, yeah, but I also enjoy creating a bot that can be Tetris.

spk_0 These are the new like assessments. These are the new forms of learning. I don't want to just say

spk_0 young people because all of us could create bots or whatever. That is innovation, right? That is

spk_0 learning. That is a different form of intelligence. It's like, sure, maybe in the past playing Tetris

spk_0 was the game. And now creating bots that can be Tetris is the new game. Right. That's kind of where

spk_0 my head has been lately. You know, we all went to school to get trained to do a certain thing.

spk_0 Right. And then we now have to as teachers and you're going to school some more. You're going for

spk_0 another master's. Why did you switch from literature to knowledge structure at Columbia?

spk_0 The full program is called information and knowledge strategy. Okay. So it's a combination of

spk_0 like information science, like knowledge management, you know, sort of strategic planning.

spk_0 But really, it's like, I did my full bright. I did research on like, sort of the role of social media

spk_0 disinformation and how educators are trying to teach media information literacy.

spk_0 When I came back from my full bright, I came back September of 2022, chat GBT, became a thing

spk_0 November of 2022. And I was like, oh my god, like I was on sabbatical. I mean, again, like it was

spk_0 a privilege. I was on sabbatical. Actually studying AI and education. So then chat GBT came out and

spk_0 I had all this time to just kind of figure out like what the hell is going on. So I decided to

spk_0 apply for another master's. I wanted to learn more about AI, but not like a super technical degree.

spk_0 So I was looking for something interdisciplinary. And I also knew that I wanted to have that sort

spk_0 of higher level understanding of like how to help large institutions or organizations integrate or

spk_0 adopt AI into, you know, not just teaching and learning, but into operations and those kinds of

spk_0 things and like do more strategic planning. This is so interesting. My degree is actually

spk_0 communication and information. Okay. Even though I have a more of a communication leaning,

spk_0 it's the idea is that we're still moving information in different ways. One of the questions I get,

spk_0 and I feel like maybe you might be guessing some of this is a lot of our colleagues that we

spk_0 hang out with a lot of them are in computer sciences. And I remember very early on a couple of folks

spk_0 who were like, you're the talking type. You're the speech speaker. Right. Why are you here?

spk_0 You know, what's going on here? And I think with your understanding of literature and the way

spk_0 things move and the way information moves and from the communication perspective of how

spk_0 we exchange information. The exchange of information typically has a goal.

spk_0 We want something or someone wants something from us. And this is such an interesting way of

spk_0 connecting the human with the technology. Yes, definitely. Definitely. I love that. I love

spk_0 that because that's so true. It really like, and I have this really great conversation with,

spk_0 you know, one of our other sort of educators in this AI space,

spk_0 so animals. And we were talking about how like, can see why instructors feel hurt when,

spk_0 you know, their student writes an essay, we're using gender to be eye. Right. Because the purpose

spk_0 of writing and communication is to have a connection with another human being. Right. And when

spk_0 you feel like you're getting this like computer generated like crap, basically, I mean, it's not

spk_0 feels like you're not communicating with like an authentic human being. And that's where I think

spk_0 a lot of the anger comes from, you know, oh, yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Right. It's,

spk_0 I put all this heart and soul into these things for you. And you respond by literally typing

spk_0 four things into a computer and handing me something that's on a calculator. Right. Yeah. And

spk_0 it's really funny because students feel the same way. I actually in my class, I have at the very

spk_0 beginning of the quarter, I have them do like a little intake survey, you know, where they get to

spk_0 tell me a little bit about themselves, like any challenges they have with education. And I have

spk_0 two questions. The first question is, how do you feel about using generative AI for your own work?

spk_0 Right. And why do you feel that way? And the second one is, how would you feel if I use generative AI

spk_0 to grade your work? And why? And it's hilarious. Like I'm surprised that they don't see the

spk_0 the contradictions because when it's their work, they're like, I think it's great. You know,

spk_0 with some, there's some of them like, I couldn't imagine a day without using generative AI.

spk_0 I use it for everything. It's good for brainstorming. It's good for editing. I mean, this is,

spk_0 I would say probably two thirds of the students have that response. There's some who are like, I would

spk_0 never use it. I think it's cheating. And I hate it. I don't want to surrender my own like autonomy.

spk_0 So I don't want to say that all students are like this, but a lot of them say I used to AI all the

spk_0 time. I think it's great. It's good for generating ideas for pointing me to new resources, etc.

spk_0 But then the question about me using it. Yes. They're like, I would feel cheated. I would feel,

spk_0 I had one student who said, I would ask, what am I paying for with education? And I'm like, okay.

spk_0 You know, and a lot of them say, I don't, I don't trust generative AI because it doesn't have

spk_0 the human element. And so I use that as a teaching point. I'm like, okay, like this is clearly what

spk_0 you want, right? Like you submit something and you want a human to read it. And I'm like, I think

spk_0 we want the same things. I think you want a human to engage with your work. And I want to engage

spk_0 with human work. And I was like, we're not at odds with each other. We both want to feel human

spk_0 and feel seen as human. So that's like my favorite teaching moment. And then it all goes downhill.

spk_0 The rest of the... No, I'm just kidding. I see me stealing that very...

spk_0 I highly recommend it. It's what I recommend to like my faculty, especially the ones who are like

spk_0 super resistant to even using any AI. I was like, you can have the conversation without using any AI.

spk_0 Like just ask these two questions and see what happens. So my first masters, I did modern literature.

spk_0 And I feel like there's a lot of overlap in terms of like the really foundational questions I have

spk_0 in my both grad programs. Because I'm really interested in how technology impacts society.

spk_0 Right? And so my literature masters was... I was looking at 19th century French realism. And I was

spk_0 looking at how sort of like industrialization and sort of enlightenment ideals created this way of

spk_0 looking at the world that was like super scientific and looking at different technologies like

spk_0 electrification, railroads, like all of these different things and how it impacted our sense of

spk_0 time, space, family, like gender, all of these things. And that is kind of what led me to the

spk_0 second masters was just thinking about, okay, AI is this new technology. And it is impacting society

spk_0 in so many different ways. One, like it's even before gendered AI, right? Like I consider social media,

spk_0 you know, part of this AI conversation, right? It's not just chat to PT. And so, you know, that was

spk_0 part of why I chose it. And that's sort of the overlap or the sort of through line in these two

spk_0 programs was just thinking about how do new technological advancements change the ways that we relate

spk_0 to ourselves, the ways we relate to each other, and the ways that we relate to the world. Yeah,

spk_0 anyway, that was... I wanted to remember to come back to that because I... Yeah.

spk_0 That makes so much sense. And one of the things that I'm actually working on is we talked about how

spk_0 COVID completely reshuffled us. Kind of like the plague did. And then after the plague, you had

spk_0 this huge rush of humanity where we started looking at, I think, therefore I am, we're going to look at

spk_0 the science instead of relying on dogma, right? It completely shifted us. And then now we have this

spk_0 thing called AI and how that is fundamentally shifting us as well. And again, be one of those that

spk_0 says, see, for me, AI is kind of like my superpowers since I know how to talk to my computer.

spk_0 I'm doing ridiculous things that I never dreamed of doing. Like building off of what you're saying,

spk_0 I feel like all of these time periods, like the plague and the renaissance, you know, enlightenment

spk_0 industrialization, COVID and AI, like all of it, I feel, I mean, there's many questions connected,

spk_0 but the foundational question is like, what makes us human? Yes, especially when we have these

spk_0 seismic disruptions in our human existence. Yes, right? I mean, AI started as like, how do you get a

spk_0 computer to think like a human? These are questions about like, what is it to be human? And it's

spk_0 interesting because I see a lot of colleagues who, you know, they work with like, you know, different

spk_0 chatbots, like they have, you know, play lab or nectar or, you know, and they're like, they're so excited

spk_0 because they're like, look what I taught my chatbot to do. Look what I got it to do. It's interesting

spk_0 because it is like how we used to talk about our students. And that's one of the things that

spk_0 still I'm like, I'm processing as an educator, you know, as much as I worry that our students

spk_0 over rely on generative AI, I also as an educator don't want to over rely on AI, you know what I mean?

spk_0 Like I get so excited about what I teach a computer to do that I forget that my goal, right,

spk_0 is to like be better at teaching humans to do things. If that's an goal, the point of teaching my AI

spk_0 to do something, right, is that it allows me to be a better teacher for the humans.

spk_0 I love that perspective. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very powerful to think about it that way.

spk_0 It's almost permission. If that makes sense to say, okay, this is why I'm spending time on this

spk_0 technology so that I can learn it to, this is why I'm doing this faculty professional development

spk_0 because it allows me to be a better faculty member. It allows me to be a better teacher.

spk_0 And I love that permission aspect of that. Yeah, yeah. But without focusing so much on the tool

spk_0 itself that we forget that the tool is there to serve a purpose. Yes. And I think that's the key.

spk_0 And this is something I wanted to say earlier about like another thing I realized like in my

spk_0 Full-Bright research is that when we're talking about information, when we're talking about knowledge,

spk_0 so much of it is rooted in our identity, in our sense of identity. Yes. And I think that what's

spk_0 hard for a lot of educators, especially if we're asking these deep questions about like, what even

spk_0 is intelligence, what even is learning, what even is assessment, it's challenging the identity that

spk_0 they have formed as educators doing what they do the way they do it. Yes. That requires a lot of

spk_0 neuroplasticity requires a lot of like soul searching and not everybody wants to do that. And

spk_0 I mean, the provision to not do that either. But also to make sure that as either as educators or

spk_0 students or anybody using these tools that our identity doesn't get completely rooted in the tool

spk_0 itself. Yes. Like let's remember that we are more than the tool. We are more than AI, right? I think

spk_0 what happened with social media, right? It's like we kind of confused who the algorithm told us we

spk_0 were with who we actually are. And so that's what it's designed that way. It's designed to shape

spk_0 itself to like the things you like and the things that you linger on and the things that you don't like.

spk_0 So we forget that it's separate from us, but we are more than the tools. I really like how you tie

spk_0 it to social media because we are commoditized by social media, right? Social media wants to categorize

spk_0 us in certain ways so that it can better package us, sell to us and sell us. And AI in many ways is

spk_0 potentially doing the same thing. And how do we resist that? First of all, while knowing that we

spk_0 have to engage with this tool. Yeah. That is the question. And I think this is why we need educators who

spk_0 are well versed in both how the tools work and also the limitations, right? Even before Chabts,

spk_0 UPT, I used to do this exercise with students where I was like, look at your explore page and tell me

spk_0 who you are, right? Or look at like put in this phrase in Google and the search results tell me a

spk_0 little bit about who you are if you're not using it anonymous search, right? And now I have a new

spk_0 assignment that's like it's called who does AI think you are. And I told them to create a persona

spk_0 could be actually based on you. You could make something up, give it at least 10 characteristics,

spk_0 like age, race, gender, where you live, or you go to school, whatever. And then ask it to generate

spk_0 two lists of news sources for you based on that persona. And to ask it to explain why it chose

spk_0 those news sources. And then I say now write a reflection. Like do you agree? Do you disagree? Why

spk_0 do you think it recommended these things? What are the recommendations? What are the biases?

spk_0 And of course, by the time this episode airs, that'll be an obsolete assignment. But I think that

spk_0 like we have to engage critically with it. Like we have to ask those questions around like do I

spk_0 agree with what it's telling me or who it's telling me I am or what it's telling me to believe?

spk_0 Because I think it's so much easier to just take it at face value. So much easier to copy and paste

spk_0 than it is to actually be like, do I do I agree with this? Do I want this to be a reflection of

spk_0 and is this the work you're doing as part of the California Learning Labs faculty innovators

spk_0 in residence strategy team or first? Through California Learning Lab, I'm really fortunate that I

spk_0 was tasked with running a learning community intersegmental. So it means like with community

spk_0 colleges, Cal States, and UCs, we just put a call out anybody who is interested in AI and teaching

spk_0 and learning. We're running this pilot and it really was in my mind about building community

spk_0 because I think that as we kind of talked earlier, so many people are just freaked out and stressed

spk_0 and burned out. So I was like, how can we gather and just create like a safer space for people to

spk_0 talk about what their fears are with AI and what they're doing that's exciting and lessons learned,

spk_0 best practices, all of that stuff. That was my main project through Learning Lab. I really enjoyed

spk_0 it. I think that we don't have enough space for people to have these conversations.

spk_0 Coming from my own background of like, you know, very emotionally unavailable childhood upbringing.

spk_0 If you don't have opportunities to talk about how you're feeling, like the stuff gets buried

spk_0 and it's harder to function if you're not able to air what's coming up for you, you know,

spk_0 when scary things happen. I wanted to tie it to the AI first is I feel like everything that you're

spk_0 talking about means that the role of educators is so much more important than it ever has been.

spk_0 And I'm not saying this just because this is, you know, part of what I do. It's up to us, right,

spk_0 to really critically examine AI because it's much more pervasive, invasive, all the other

spk_0 diseases or then social media, I feel. It permeates every aspect of our lives and we need to really

spk_0 consider what it does to and with us. And then I'm really curious about you have a more global

spk_0 perspective, right, having a lot more exposure around the world to different areas. You know,

spk_0 mind it's more Asian, but I feel like you kind of have, you know, Europe and Asia, right?

spk_0 What do you think, like, what can we do as educators here abroad across the world? What can we do

spk_0 to better help our communities, not just our students, but our communities because, you know,

spk_0 we want to fix society's problems. Yeah. Oh gosh, that's a big question. And I will also say that

spk_0 a lot of my sort of adult research and experience and expertise has been primarily based in Asia.

spk_0 I mean, yes, I grew up in Switzerland and I still have conversations with folks there. You know,

spk_0 the EU was doing a lot of really great work at the beginning around like AI policy regulations.

spk_0 And I think just historically, like, their support of social services is a good model because I do

spk_0 think that these technologies have the capacity. I mean, they're already like causing serious,

spk_0 like economic disruptions. And I think that people who are worried that AI is going to take their

spk_0 jobs have like, you know, valid fears because it is taking over a lot of certain kinds of work.

spk_0 It doesn't mean that there aren't going to be jobs. It just means in the lag time between the jobs

spk_0 that are automated and the development of new jobs. Some people are really going to suffer. And

spk_0 people are already suffering with the current economic situation. But what can we do as educators?

spk_0 Maybe this is my extrovert privilege, but I'm like, I've talked to people.

spk_0 You know what I mean? Like, I know that that's not available to everybody, but I do think like

spk_0 having a conversation with your student, especially if you suspect that they might be using AI and

spk_0 you think they should fail because of it, I would say like have a conversation with them first,

spk_0 because there are as many legitimate reasons for somebody to use AI as there are to not use AI.

spk_0 And just talking things through can provide a lot of insight. But I think also talking to each other,

spk_0 getting different perspectives, I mean, not just to our students, but talking to like other

spk_0 colleagues, other folks who who can provide different takes on what you're experiencing. Just not

spk_0 to invalidate you, but just to sort of say like, oh, well, this is how I approach it. I think

spk_0 that's really important. And then globally, oh gosh, if I know I talk about what I want to add to you.

spk_0 Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously like having human conversations with your colleagues scaled to

spk_0 a global level would be diplomacy, but I don't know if we're heading in that direction.

spk_0 But I think for me, especially because of the work I do in Southeast Asia, I am very concerned

spk_0 about like global digital divides. And I know that like we've talked a lot about some of the more

spk_0 quote unquote existential risks of AI. There are a lot of genuine like material

spk_0 concerns around the impact that AI is having, you know, environmental impact, the sort of the

spk_0 exploitative labor practices of like training and maintaining. And those are things that should be

spk_0 part of the conversation. You know, I think that a lot of the sort of critics of AI have adopted

spk_0 that sort of more like, oh, it's terrible for humanity kind of argument. But you know, folks like

spk_0 Tnit Gibru, Joy Ballamweini's, if you know, will like have done a lot of really great work

spk_0 of looking at like what are the actual like every day impacts of AI technologies on people,

spk_0 whether it's like predictive policing, facial recognition technologies, that's Joy Ballamweini's work.

spk_0 But also like the data lablers, right, you know, getting paid like, you know, who are being exploited.

spk_0 For me, the global context like that has to factor into the conversation. Yeah.

spk_0 And I think you're absolutely right because we focus so much on those big existential issues,

spk_0 because we have the privilege to do so. Right. And a couple of things that I've noticed that

spk_0 AI is really helping me reconsider my privileges. Right. For example, I am first generation,

spk_0 immigrant, but I sound like this because I picked up multiple languages at a young age.

spk_0 I actually have a colleague who has a stutter and it's easy for me to reproduce my voice using AI

spk_0 cloning. No big deal, right. But then for people who maybe speak differently, different accents,

spk_0 different verbal patterns, what does that do to their psychological mental state?

spk_0 Does it make it worse? Does it make it better? What are the things that are there? And I really,

spk_0 really appreciate that you brought up that this is a privilege that we get to really focus on

spk_0 these existential stuff without really having to think about the day to day. There was a really

spk_0 heated debate during COVID around whether or not we would procure proctorio.

spk_0 Right. Oh wow. Which in terms of ableism is an important example. Again, I recognize that there

spk_0 are colleagues with genuine concerns about academic dishonesty and aren't quite sure what is the

spk_0 appropriate response or way to mitigate academic dishonesty. Incomes this tool, this tech company,

spk_0 trying to make money, right. That has a tool that is flawed. Right. And these are questions that

spk_0 we have to ask. Same thing with AI detectors. There's so much research on the linguistic,

spk_0 the dialect bias of them as an educator, you have to weigh that. Is your fear or concern around

spk_0 academic dishonesty? Does that outweigh the fear or concern that you are going to disproportionately

spk_0 impact certain students? And again, like I am not telling anybody what choices they make, I just

spk_0 think that that is you have to realize that that is a choice you are making. Educators don't have

spk_0 time to look at every single and I feel like it may be disproportionately impacts English, right?

spk_0 Because as a speech person, I have a speech at the end. The speeches, the end of the project,

spk_0 and you just have to get up and talk. We're still relatively protected. For me, the outline,

spk_0 the essays, anything we write are steps to that. From the English perspective, right, how do you

spk_0 check every single one? What are these unintentional biases? And again, they're unintentional. We're not

spk_0 trying to discriminate against our students. But what are these unintentional biases that could

spk_0 be reflected not just by ourselves, but through our technology? Yeah, the reason AI is biased is

spk_0 because humans are biased, right? Well, one I've changed my grading processes, so I don't,

spk_0 I mean, I do contract grading and we create expectations as a group. The other thing is that when

spk_0 I suspect that a student has used it, I don't, I just say can you meet with me? Yeah. And then I

spk_0 have a conversation with them and I agree it's labor intensive and a lot of faculty don't have time.

spk_0 So I'm not trying to say that this is like the solution. I'm saying this is what I've decided to do.

spk_0 I personally try to prioritize like the human connection and I just say, oh, like can you tell me

spk_0 a little bit about your writing process? And I don't think this is just for English. I think any class

spk_0 that has like written assignments, right, susceptible to this. So I say like, what was your writing

spk_0 process? Like, oh, well, like I'm noticing like as you're having a conversation with me,

spk_0 your tone and your vocabulary is slightly different. So I was like, oh, can you tell me like,

spk_0 how did you choose some of these words? You know, I just want to like make sure that you are aware

spk_0 that you're responsible for everything in your submission unless you have cited that you've used

spk_0 other tools. And if turns out that they've used generative AI, I'm like, oh, then you need to

spk_0 cite it. And they were like, how do I cite it? And so then I go through like MLA format and I'm like,

spk_0 okay, every phrase, everything that was like not run by you, you have to put a quotation marks and

spk_0 put the link to the thing, like doing it ethically takes so much more time for them that they're just

spk_0 like, all right, forget it. I'll just write it myself. Exactly. Exactly. And so then it is a constant

spk_0 conversation. And I understand not everybody has capacity to do that. That's what I see as like

spk_0 my new role as a teacher is really just like basically, how do I encourage students to have

spk_0 conversations with me? And I wanted to pull something else that you said, trust rehumanizing.

spk_0 And kind of lays a way to kind of bring a conclusion to a lovely wonderful talk because I think

spk_0 this can go on for the next three hours. It's the idea of like, what do you mean by that? And how

spk_0 might that be a way forward for us as educators for us as a society as we are going to be dealing with

spk_0 an AI world for the rest of our lives? Yeah. For me, I think trust is the key because it is the

spk_0 thing that I see is most depleted right now in our society as I mean, trust in compassion

spk_0 are probably the most depleted. But I think compassion comes from trust, right? It's trust of humans,

spk_0 it's trust of the information that we're being given. It's trust of institutions, right? Like how

spk_0 many students like not to students, but like people in US culture have lost trust in the institution

spk_0 of education. Yes. It's not by accident, right? I'm not saying that like the institution sucks,

spk_0 and that's why people lost it. It's like there have been concerted efforts to erode the trust in it.

spk_0 Right. And outdated like policies and practices that have also eroded that trust.

spk_0 Intergenerative AI, which has further eroded trust among the humans within that institution,

spk_0 right? And this is another reason why I discourage AI detectors is because it promotes that culture

spk_0 of distrust, right? Yes. You get a lot of positives. Like trust our students instead of the

spk_0 species of technology. Yeah. You know, part of trust I think is also good faith. You know, like I

spk_0 think that we have just assumed that people are doing things because they're bad people. Yes.

spk_0 And I tend to come from a more restorative justice perspective. You know, obviously if somebody

spk_0 is like hurting you, abusing you don't like, you know, get out of that situation, right? As soon as you can,

spk_0 right? Get to a safe place. But I think that if you know, somebody's being dishonest for me as an

spk_0 educator, my goal is to get at what is the deeper cause that has led that person to engage in any kind

spk_0 of if it's academic dishonesty. You know, I had a student who was homeless and learning that and

spk_0 realizing that that was a lot of the reason why the student was using generative AI to complete

spk_0 assignments. I was like, look, I want to know what your voice is. I want to know what you actually

spk_0 think. And it's okay if it's grammatically incorrect right now. It's okay. It's not the most

spk_0 sophisticated thing you've ever written. And I think that's also what students need. Like they don't

spk_0 trust themselves. They don't trust their own thinking. They don't trust their own voice. Yes.

spk_0 And they know that the teacher, there might be this culture of distrust in the classroom.

spk_0 Right. I try to as much as possible create that safer space in the class so that students feel like

spk_0 they can bring their authentic selves, even if it's messy, even if it's grammatically incorrect,

spk_0 or like doesn't have the most sophisticated vocabulary. I'm like, you know, as much as you want a

spk_0 real human to grade your work, like I want you to show up as a real human. And then we can actually

spk_0 get some learning done. I love that wonderful human touch, especially that we can use this as a

spk_0 vehicle to better relate and communicate and connect with each other. Thank you so much for your time.

spk_0 Oh, thank you. This was such an awesome conversation. This was such a wonderful deep conversation where

spk_0 we covered a lot of ground. I feel like we were able to touch on some very deeply important things

spk_0 that are shifting because of AI and why we need to be human.

spk_0 Thanks so much for tuning into the Innovating Higher Ed Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode,

spk_0 please consider subscribing and sharing it with your colleagues and friends. Be sure to join us

spk_0 for our next episode as we boldly explore new frontiers in educational innovation.

Human-Centered AI Strategy: Empathy, Trust, Access | Professor Chesa Caparas

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