How to make mornings easier for ADHD brains

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello and welcome to Init, a podcast for families with kids who learn and think differently.

spk_0 Here you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes and yes, sometimes failures,

spk_0 from experts and from parents and caregivers like you.

spk_0 I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former classroom teacher and an editor here at Understood.org.

spk_0 And I'm Rachel Bozek, a writer, editor and mom who has definitely been in it.

spk_0 Before we dive in today, we wanted to share some bittersweet news with you all.

spk_0 This podcast, which we've been so proud to make over the years, will sadly be coming to a close.

spk_0 It's been such an incredible experience to share this podcast with you all

spk_0 and we hope you'll keep in touch and check out some of the other podcasts understood producers.

spk_0 The good news is the full archive, six seasons, will still be here for you anytime you want to revisit an episode

spk_0 or discover one you might have missed.

spk_0 And you'll always be able to learn from Understood.org, which has lots of other resources

spk_0 and shows you can you need to turn to for support.

spk_0 But we're not done yet.

spk_0 We have a great show for you today.

spk_0 We are talking about the dreaded morning routine.

spk_0 Oh my gosh.

spk_0 My one kid who's still in the house is a teenager, so more or less independent,

spk_0 but I still feel like I can't breathe sometimes until she's out of the house.

spk_0 Like there's going to be some sort of last minute disaster I have to deal with.

spk_0 Oh same here.

spk_0 I just this morning we had a last minute emergency that was just like,

spk_0 oh, I need this thing.

spk_0 And just to be clear, like we just had a weekend where there were two days and a Friday night

spk_0 to get all of this figured out.

spk_0 And it was like, oh, wait, no, I need that right now.

spk_0 And like now I'm searching the house for like a makeup bag.

spk_0 Why?

spk_0 I'm not sure.

spk_0 But yes, mornings are fun.

spk_0 Mornings are tough.

spk_0 So the good news is help is on the way.

spk_0 Today we've invited John Zitland to give us some tips.

spk_0 John is the co-founder of Habit Coach, an executive function coaching service.

spk_0 He is himself an ADHD coach.

spk_0 He lives in Palo Alto, California and has three kids.

spk_0 And we're so delighted to have him here today with us.

spk_0 John, welcome to In It.

spk_0 Welcome, John.

spk_0 Thank you for having me and this is a fun topic to talk about.

spk_0 I'm glad you think it's fun.

spk_0 We think so.

spk_0 So John, as a parent or perhaps as someone who grew up with undiagnosed ADHD,

spk_0 what comes to mind when you hear the words morning routine?

spk_0 Do those words spark joy?

spk_0 No, I mean, like everybody, it was dreaded, particularly as a parent.

spk_0 As when I was growing up, my mother was incredibly structured.

spk_0 She was a bit of a martinette and the three kids all practice their string instruments

spk_0 before school and she just had us super well organized.

spk_0 But when I became a parent, it was like the days of just the women doing all the work

spk_0 or over.

spk_0 And so my wife and I always shared this.

spk_0 So I have three kids and one of them is ADHD and the challenges came up when he and I were the ones

spk_0 that had to get things done.

spk_0 So I have one story.

spk_0 Is that okay?

spk_0 Please.

spk_0 Okay, so we actually were living in Costa Rica for three years where my kids were in early grade school.

spk_0 And so I would have to get the kids ready, cook them breakfast, fall up with them.

spk_0 My wife was often on early morning work calls and then I would get them into the car.

spk_0 And there's already kind of stress at this point because you've been through all the

spk_0 things of getting them ready.

spk_0 And I in my mind, I'm like, I know I have 15 minutes to drive there, drop them off,

spk_0 15 minutes to get back and I'm running a meeting with a lot of people there and I can't be late.

spk_0 So it's a kind of classic morning routine where your own timing is sort of getting in the way.

spk_0 So anyhow, we get in the car, we drive there and we get to the school and we drop them off and

spk_0 so might sign what column E. So E's twin sister gets out of the car and his older brother gets out

spk_0 of the car and I look around and he's sitting there and I'm like, what's up?

spk_0 And he says, I don't have my shoes.

spk_0 And now I was saying his defense is a beachy area and the kitchen where he shoes a lot.

spk_0 But there was a rule at school, you can't come to school without shoes.

spk_0 And so I was like, okay, just get out of the car.

spk_0 Get out of the car. So he gets out of the car, he goes in without shoes and I drive home,

spk_0 I change my meeting, I come back, I get bring in the shoes and like, okay. And then three weeks later,

spk_0 exactly the same thing happens. And it happened like three or four times a year.

spk_0 And of course my wife said to me, John, why can't you just remind him to put his shoes on?

spk_0 I said, you don't understand. That's hard for me.

spk_0 Like I'm trying to get all my stuff together to get the kids in and get to my meeting on time.

spk_0 I'm thinking about, I'm not totally prepared for this meeting. So it's that combination,

spk_0 you know, ADHD is incredibly genetic. Sometimes that combination of the parent who's got

spk_0 some challenges and the kid who has some challenges makes it really, really challenging.

spk_0 We do laugh about the shoe thing now, you know, now.

spk_0 That is a good story. So you know, whether you are a family where someone has learning

spk_0 and thinking differences or not, John, why is it that getting kids out the door

spk_0 in the morning can be such a challenge?

spk_0 Well, first of all, you're coming into this situation when some stress usually because you're

spk_0 trying to get to something usually, usually work or whatever you have to get to.

spk_0 So there's your deadlines and your kid's deadlines. And then I think the biggest thing is that,

spk_0 you know, as an adult, it's just a habit, right? You don't have to use a lot of cognitive load or

spk_0 energy to deal with this. Like, do either of you guys have a checklist in your bedroom wall with all

spk_0 morning for morning routine? I've lists everywhere. It's part of my problem. I do not.

spk_0 Okay. Okay. Okay.

spk_0 Anyhow, most adults don't mind. I'm sure some adults too. But, you know, after this many years,

spk_0 you don't really have to think about it too hard. But if you're four or six or eight,

spk_0 you know, it's not ingrained in there. And so, you know, there's probably like, you know,

spk_0 really maybe seven or eight steps to a morning routine. And I think it's hard for parents to

spk_0 put their cells in the shoes of their kids and what that was like.

spk_0 All right, John. So you said this is hard for kids to remember everything. And they might need a

spk_0 list. What are all the things that might be on that list? Well, I always started actually with

spk_0 the night before because, you know, if you're a young kid or even older kid, if you go to sleep at

spk_0 your bedtime, then you probably have no problem getting up. But if you go to sleep a couple

spk_0 hours after your bedtime, which so many kids do, then it's really hard to get up in the morning.

spk_0 So I step one actually happens the night before. Okay. Then you have to get up and you have to get

spk_0 up on time. And these days, there's like a huge industry of like alarm clocks that, you know,

spk_0 because there are a lot of people who can't get up. So they get louder and louder. You have to

spk_0 solve a math problem before the alarm will go off. So for, you know, for a lot of people that's

spk_0 no big deal, but for some people, that's a big challenge. Okay. So then you have to do your,

spk_0 whatever is you're doing in the bathroom, which is, you know, multiple steps. And, you know,

spk_0 it's easy to get distracted or forgetful or you don't like to do it. Like, you know, you just don't

spk_0 like to brush your teeth. You know, like this, my son who I've been talking about just didn't like

spk_0 to brush his teeth. I never understood that because I was like, it makes your mouth feel so minty

spk_0 fresh. But he didn't like it now, you know, then of course, next thing is wash your face, which,

spk_0 again, for adults, it's something that you don't really want to go to work without washing your face

spk_0 or having a shower even. But for kids, it's just not that higher in the priority scale. And it's

spk_0 easy for them to forget. So there's a lot of stuff that could go wrong in the bathroom. Okay,

spk_0 so great. Maybe you got through bathroom. Then you have to get dressed. But to getting dressed,

spk_0 you have to know what the weather is going to be, which is something that, of course, we just look

spk_0 at our phone. We know the weather when you get dressed. But a lot of kids just, they don't do that.

spk_0 And so, you know, my, from, in my family, was often kids showing up in short and T-shirts when it was,

spk_0 you know, cold and rainy outside. But then you have to eat breakfast. Oh, great. Eating breakfast,

spk_0 that sounds easy except for if you're playing with your Legos or if you're on your phone or if you're

spk_0 reading a book and you're into it and your mom's trying to get you to eat breakfast and you're just

spk_0 not, you're not doing it because, you know, you're so into what you're doing. Then you have to get

spk_0 all your stuff together for school. And if you have soccer practice after school and you left your

spk_0 soccer cleats in your car the night before and you don't remember that and you're running around

spk_0 the house with like, you know, checking with their head cut off trying to find your cleats and

spk_0 getting more and more anxious about it. That doesn't help some things. And then finally, let's say

spk_0 you've gotten through all of that and then, you know, you have to go and get ready for school. You

spk_0 have to put your shoes on. Yeah. I was waiting for that. Yeah. So what makes all of those steps? I

spk_0 mean, I think those steps can be challenging for any kid and we know that morning routines are

spk_0 kind of universally tough. But what makes all of this particularly hard for a kid who maybe has

spk_0 ADHD? Well, a kid who has ADHD, they're prefrontal cortex is not developing quite at the speed that

spk_0 it would be if you're, you know, without the without the issue. And so your synapse is not firing

spk_0 so well. That means your executive function is not as strong. And so there are a few executive

spk_0 functions that are absolutely critical to be able to do morning routine and to do independently.

spk_0 So time management is a really, really big one. A lot of people with ADHD is they're what's called

spk_0 time blind where they just they don't have a different sense to difference between 10 minutes and

spk_0 50 minutes. Switching is a big one. So folks with ADHD, you know, they have very alive, very energetic,

spk_0 very curious brains. And when they get on to something, they go deep into it. So it's hard to

spk_0 switch them off. So if mom's calling up and saying you have five minutes to go and you're deeply

spk_0 into your, you know, whatever it might be, your comic book, your video game, your book,

spk_0 your Legos, it's very hard for you to switch off to that and listen to your mom.

spk_0 Organization, like I would say, like that example of like, I can't find my cleats there in the car

spk_0 and working memory because you don't remember that where you put them. So those are all executive

spk_0 functions. And that's, you know, basically what ADHD is is challenge with your executive functions.

spk_0 And, you know, ADHD is basically, it makes it hard to get things done. And morning routine is like

spk_0 classic example of getting things done. Yeah. And I think a couple of the examples that you

spk_0 just mentioned kind of fit into these different categories of like, inattentive versus hyperactive.

spk_0 Can you give a couple more examples that are maybe specific to one versus the other, you know,

spk_0 when some of those factors are at work? Yeah, I mean, ADHD is, I mean, the diagnoses, the classic

spk_0 diagnosis are inattentive or hyperactive or combined type. But the modern view of ADHD hasn't

spk_0 quite shut up in the DSM yet. But in the modern view is it's really an executive function disorder.

spk_0 So attention for sure is a good example, but attention, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can't

spk_0 hold your attention. It might mean that you have, there's too much input going on. So you can't,

spk_0 as you can't switch your attention, you can't hold your attention when you're doing something boring.

spk_0 It's a little bit more, it's a little bit more complex. But I think for parents, the best way to

spk_0 understand it is to think about the individual executive function. So time management, you know,

spk_0 of what in procrastination, avoiding being impulsive, working memory, organization. And if you,

spk_0 if you understand your child's brain in that way, then it helps them. It just makes it much easier

spk_0 for you to understand what's going on for them during something like morning routine.

spk_0 And I know I kind of mentioned this a second ago, but for some kids with ADHD, they may also have

spk_0 sensory challenges. So like, for example, clothing, maybe putting on the particular type of clothing,

spk_0 like can those things slow down kids in the morning routine as well?

spk_0 I mean, yeah, there's so many things that can't go wrong. For sure, if you have sensory challenges,

spk_0 like eating a meal can be a minefield, if you have sensory challenges, right? Eating your breakfast

spk_0 could be a minefield. And the work of the parent is to really be a question asker, to really,

spk_0 really understand what's going on with the child, you know. And when they're really young, even they,

spk_0 they may not even be able to express it that well, right? And so you just have to be like a detective.

spk_0 And if you're like a detective, and you can really understand what's going on with that, it just

spk_0 makes your job so much easier. I like the detective analogy. And I know you have strategies, and we do

spk_0 want to get into some of those. And so before we do, though, can you tell us what are some of the

spk_0 more rookie mistakes that parents and caregivers make when trying to help their kids, you know,

spk_0 get their morning routines down? Yeah. Okay. Well, my favorite one is the old call upstairs,

spk_0 and think that it's going to be effective. And I still fall for this every day. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 What are you using in Alexa? Yeah. Well, I mean, to be honest, I had to really, my wife, like,

spk_0 she's got attention surplus disorder. She's got the opposite, right? And so I had to explain that

spk_0 to her. I was like, when you're calling upstairs to the kids, they're not hearing you, especially,

spk_0 especially my child with ADHD. You know, you really have to like, walk up the stairs and get

spk_0 right in front of your child's face. In our family, we do this. We say, look at me. And my wife does

spk_0 it to me, and I do it to my son. And we don't get offended because we know that's what it takes to

spk_0 get our attention. So like, look at me. You've got five minutes to go before school. And you think

spk_0 that's going to work. But then, you know, five minutes could be five hours. You don't know. So

spk_0 look at me. And you say, you've got five minutes to go to school. And I'm going to set a timer.

spk_0 Okay. But then the timer goes off. And they're still not ready to go. Okay. So then you go to the next

spk_0 level, which is look at me and the timer. And then you say, I'm going to come back with one minute

spk_0 to go just to remind you and you go upstairs again. So it is more work on the parent, right? And

spk_0 especially when they're young, it's just you just have to work harder with an ADHD child. There's

spk_0 and how much time it's going to take for something to happen. You know, timers is kind of classic

spk_0 tried and true of what we do in in in in habit coach and when I'm coaching kids. But even timers

spk_0 don't work a lot of times. So you could train your kids and we do this in our in our coaching practice.

spk_0 You can you can actually get better at understanding time. So we'll do these, you know,

spk_0 set of activities where you say, you know, go through five things that you normally do in your day

spk_0 and predict how much each one's going to take and then time it and then compare your estimate

spk_0 to the actual and then you you could see it. If you're way off, you're always underestimating overestimating.

spk_0 So it is actually like a lot of these things, something that you can get better at. You have to work

spk_0 at it. I like that. I feel like I do that with recipes. I read it says it's going to take this

spk_0 long and I have finally figured out. I need to at least add 10 minutes to that. Yeah, that's the

spk_0 rest of the piece though. Yeah. They all lie. They all lie. They at least for beginners, right? Yeah,

spk_0 I just so learn like if I go watch the ball game and they're going to come back, it's going to get

spk_0 burned. Right. Yeah. And I think to your point, not to totally digress a cooking, but like when you

spk_0 said, you know, setting timers sometimes is not helpful, when that's happening too often, just like

spk_0 in my life, I don't hear it. Like I hear it. And I'm just like, yeah, there's that thing beeping

spk_0 anyway. And it's like, we have to respond to that. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of things that

spk_0 fade into the back like the chart. Like that's like the morning routine chart. Yeah. Is going to be

spk_0 in every curriculum. Like, of course, we teach this as well. And morning routine charts good,

spk_0 but it's only good if you use it because it fades into the background incredibly quickly for children.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So speaking of that chart, what are some of the favorite strategies that you have that can

spk_0 actually help the morning routine go more smoothly? Maybe you could start with giving a few

spk_0 strategies for young kids and then maybe some older kids. Okay. Well, for young kids, my favorite

spk_0 strategy is parenting a whole as I call it distraction theory, parenting. So like, you know,

spk_0 and then they're in the tantrum phase, I'd be like, there's a bee on the wall, even if there wasn't one.

spk_0 But in morning routine, the carolary of that is to turn into games. So before we lived in

spk_0 Brooklyn and we had a 15, 20 minute walk to school each morning through a million high school kids

spk_0 and terrible weather sometimes. And it was hard and I had to get to work afterwards. And so we had,

spk_0 I came up with these games that we would play. So one of them I stole from Monty Python,

spk_0 which we called silly walks, where, where one of the four of us, me and the three kids would have

spk_0 to do a silly walk and then everybody else would have to copy them. Or we would do, you know,

spk_0 the classic, would you rather would you rather be on a feet tall, a way a hundred pounds or two

spk_0 feet tall, a way, two hundred pounds. Or my, my wife's favorite one is she would run ahead. She's

spk_0 a very fast walk or walk it. She's a very fast walker. And she'd say run, run, run, run, run, run,

spk_0 the kids would run it. And so when you're doing that, they're forgetting all their distractions or

spk_0 the things that are bothering them or all the things that normally slow you down and they're into

spk_0 the game. But you're kind of, I mean, you are manipulating them. You're getting them to do what you

spk_0 need them to do, but in a fun way. And you can apply that to any part of morning routine. And if

spk_0 you're not creative person and can't think of like how to come up with a game, just go to chat

spk_0 GPT and say like, give me a game to help my child learn to brush their teeth. And you'll get like

spk_0 10 suggestions. I like that. Can I go on to older kids? Oh, sure. Go on. Yeah. Go on to older kids.

spk_0 With older kids, the trick is that you're trying to get them ready to leave the nest like a bird.

spk_0 And so, you know, your temptation of course is to not let your child fail, right? Just parent them,

spk_0 the way you always parented them, where you're, you know, especially if a child with ADHD or

spk_0 executive function challenges that you're really on top of them, the way my mother was with me to

spk_0 make sure that nothing goes wrong. But of course, you're getting ready for them to leave. And

spk_0 I've coached some college kids where the parents are, you know, tracking them on their phone and

spk_0 they know their class schedule. And, you know, if it's, you know, 8.55 AM and they have a class at

spk_0 nine, they're calling them to say, get up and go to class. And, and you know, honestly, I, of course,

spk_0 when I first encountered that, it was like, oh my god, what's wrong with you parents. And then I

spk_0 realized, you know, there are kids who do still need that. But when we work with high school students

spk_0 and we're working with the parents as well, a lot of what we're doing is getting them to give up

spk_0 their control little by little and let the kids fail. And the way you do that is by asking a lot of

spk_0 questions and giving them accountability. So, you know, if they never do have their cleats ready to

spk_0 go and they have soccer practice, then instead of, you know, screaming at them, which I've done plenty

spk_0 of times in my kids. But, you know, it's all about like, well, I observe this happening. Why do you think

spk_0 is happening? Why do you think you keep on forgetting your cleats? And then they'll come up with an

spk_0 explanation. And then, well, what do you think? What would be a strategy that would work for you

spk_0 that would, you know, make that better? Because the strategy that, and you could do that with the

spk_0 younger child too, a strategy that they owned for fixing their own problems is one that they're

spk_0 going to be much more likely to do. Yeah. The college example, I'm just curious to like, what tips do

spk_0 you have for parents of older kids who are about to go to college with them next year? Because

spk_0 I would think, oh, I want, I want to track and make sure my kids getting there because I'm paid

spk_0 for that. That would cost 100%. That would be making that call. Why are you not walking? How can you

spk_0 prep that? So, like, you're not having to make that call that year? There's a couple of things. I

spk_0 think, first of all, like before your child leaves, they need to learn how, they need to be able to do

spk_0 their laundry. They need to be able to cook a meal. They need to be able to organize their stuff.

spk_0 You need to work on that. Hopefully, that's already happened in my senior year, but not for all kids.

spk_0 Once they're a college, they're sort of out of your control. You can try and

spk_0 have them nagging, but they're not with you. It's really much more about winning their

spk_0 hearts and minds. I have a freshman in college, and his studying was very, I would say, very

spk_0 inconsistent in high school. Now, he's in college studying things that he really enjoys in a

spk_0 happier culture. He's studying, like, crazy for the first time in his life. I think it's just because

spk_0 he's into it. I don't think we did that particularly. I think that was his decision to do that.

spk_0 It's possible that if the morning routine isn't working so well in high school, there's something

spk_0 about college that might help it kick in. Sometimes. The other thing I would say is that transition

spk_0 from high school to college is much harder than most people understand. We do a lot of coaching

spk_0 with first year college kids because all of a sudden, they have absolute freedom. They're not that

spk_0 busy compared to high school. You get a lot of kids who have ADHD, executive functioning

spk_0 challenges who drop out of freshman year in college because they weren't prepared. Having a coach,

spk_0 while that first semester in college is not a bad idea at all. Do you have any final words of

spk_0 advice or maybe a pep talk for parents and caregivers who just cannot imagine their mornings getting

spk_0 better? Because sometimes it feels hopeless. I've heard. I think the big fear is my child

spk_0 going to be okay. Will they be okay at a certain point? That's really what worries you as a parent.

spk_0 And so, you know, I would say if your child is struggling, get outside help. You don't have to

spk_0 do it all yourself. There are people who are professionals who do this for a living, who understand

spk_0 building executive function. It takes a while. It doesn't happen in a few months. It happens in a

spk_0 few years. Get outside help. But the other thing I would add is that time is going to help. And it's

spk_0 hard when your kid is young, it's hard to really appreciate that. And so what happens is our

spk_0 prefrontal cortex, they just develop and they develop at different speeds. And some kids,

spk_0 they're still developing till they're 25. And some kids are still struggling because their brains

spk_0 are developing. But time does help. And so, you know, the things that really are driving you crazy

spk_0 when your child is six or eight are still going to be there when the child is 15 or 16 or 18. But

spk_0 they're probably not going to be as bad because your child's brain has developed it. Hopefully you

spk_0 forked with them or you've had somebody outside work with them. So they've been able to build these

spk_0 healthy habits over the years. So we've just got to be patient that. Yeah. So we'll find out

spk_0 that's part of it. That's part of it. You strategies be patient and don't yell upstairs and

spk_0 expect people to listen to you. Exactly. I actually think that's a really big one and I need to

spk_0 do this. I need to remember it. Like I often do the yelling and I yeah, and I really think now if I

spk_0 go, Oh, Alexa, drop into someone's room and say something like that's going to make a difference

spk_0 because I'm a little lady told you. Probably not. All right. Well, this has been great. Thank you

spk_0 so much for all of your tips on warning routines. Thanks to both of you. It's been fun talking about

spk_0 these issues. Always fun to compare and parenting notes. And yeah, thanks for their time. Thank you

spk_0 so much. Yes. Likewise. Thanks so much. Thanks so much for listening today. If you have any thoughts

spk_0 about the episode, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us at initatunderstood.org.

spk_0 And check out the show notes for this episode where we have more resources and links to anything

spk_0 we mentioned. This show is brought to you by understood.org. Understood is a non-profit organization

spk_0 dedicated to empowering people with learning and thinking differences like ADHD and dyslexia.

spk_0 If you'd like to help us continue this work, donate at understood.org slash give.

spk_0 Init is produced and edited by Julie Supren with additional production support from Cody Nelson

spk_0 Andrew Rector and Jesse DiMartino who also mixes the show. Mike Erika wrote our theme music

spk_0 and Brianna Berry is our production director. From understood.org, our executive directors are Laura

spk_0 Key, Scott Kosher and Jordan Davidson. Thanks for listening and thanks for always being in it with us.

How to make mornings easier for ADHD brains

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