House of the Dragon Season 2 Post-Mortem (Feat. Your Questions/Comments)

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hello, everyone, and welcome to a cast of Kings,

spk_0 decoding TV podcast about the HBO original series,

spk_0 House of the Dragon.

spk_0 I'm David Chen, and joining me today

spk_0 for this bonus episode, Kim Renfrow.

spk_0 How are you doing today?

spk_0 Doing great.

spk_0 Can't believe it's August.

spk_0 Indeed.

spk_0 Well, we are so excited to be here to chat about season two

spk_0 of House of the Dragon as a whole,

spk_0 and also to go over your emails, questions, and comments,

spk_0 which many of you have sent into a cast of Kings at gmail.com.

spk_0 You also commented at decodingtv.com.

spk_0 So this is gonna be a pretty chill, like laid back episode.

spk_0 We're just gonna kinda hang, talk about a bunch,

spk_0 like we've organized like a bunch of the emails people sent,

spk_0 like you know, people responded to the call, for sure,

spk_0 about sending in the emails.

spk_0 But yeah, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone

spk_0 who listened to this season,

spk_0 and gave us a great season of podcasting,

spk_0 and also a huge thanks to all the people

spk_0 who donated to the podcast at decodingtv.com.

spk_0 You're the reason why we could do this podcast.

spk_0 And of course, I wanna say a big shout out to Jesse Earl,

spk_0 who joined us for this season, providing us with a lot of

spk_0 stability during a challenging time, and for Kim Renfrow.

spk_0 Did all the seasons show notes, which were very meticulous,

spk_0 and she did an awesome job, like helped us to get through

spk_0 the season and give us a lot of insights out.

spk_0 I got Kim Renfrow a little thank you gift

spk_0 for her work this season, and I'm gonna put it

spk_0 at the end of this episode.

spk_0 You'll understand what I'm talking about

spk_0 when you get to the end of the episode.

spk_0 So that'll be a little bonus for everyone who is able

spk_0 to make it through this entire episode.

spk_0 But yeah, just wanted to say a big thank you to start with.

spk_0 I wanna also make a couple of announcements

spk_0 about kind of what's going on.

spk_0 If you're listening to a cast of kings,

spk_0 you may or may not be aware that it's part of a podcast network.

spk_0 There are other podcasts that go on throughout the year.

spk_0 One of them's called Decoding TV.

spk_0 Be sure to check it out.

spk_0 I'm there with Patrick Leppick.

spk_0 We're talking about new television shows every week.

spk_0 We recently covered Batman Cape Crusader.

spk_0 We're gonna be covering the Penguin show in September.

spk_0 We covered just a bunch of shows that are coming out

spk_0 on a weekly basis this summer.

spk_0 The Acolyte, for instance, The Bear, The Boys.

spk_0 So if you're into genre and prestige TV storytelling,

spk_0 check out Decoding TV.

spk_0 There's also another podcast called Decoding Reality

spk_0 where we cover reality TV shows.

spk_0 We're probably gonna be covering Love Is Blind, UK.

spk_0 And the next season of Love Is Blind.

spk_0 So anyway, if you're into that,

spk_0 be sure to check out Decoding Reality

spk_0 wherever your podcast can be found.

spk_0 And if you're wondering what's in store for a cast of kings,

spk_0 there is going to be a new Game of Thrones season

spk_0 or a show I should say in 2025,

spk_0 called Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

spk_0 If Decoding TV and a cast of kings

spk_0 are still a going concern at that time,

spk_0 then I think you can expect that we'll be covering

spk_0 that show here on a cast of kings.

spk_0 But there also might be other stuff between now and then,

spk_0 we're still potentially working on that.

spk_0 So keep it subscribed to a cast of kings in the meantime.

spk_0 You never know what surprises might pop up in the feed.

spk_0 So to recap, keep it subscribed here.

spk_0 Check out Decoding TV wherever you get your podcast.

spk_0 Check out Decoding Reality wherever you get your podcast.

spk_0 I think if you liked this podcast,

spk_0 you will enjoy those as well.

spk_0 Okay, speaking of what's going on with Game of Thrones,

spk_0 I think it might be worthwhile to run down all the shows

spk_0 that are currently in store,

spk_0 like what is in development.

spk_0 So Night of the Seven Kingdoms is currently filming.

spk_0 It's going to be released in 2025.

spk_0 It is apparently six episodes.

spk_0 So people can look forward to that.

spk_0 And then House of Dragons season three,

spk_0 it is not even filming right now,

spk_0 which is actually surprising to me.

spk_0 But it's supposed to go into production in early 2025.

spk_0 So that means early 2026 earliest,

spk_0 probably mid 2026 is my guess.

spk_0 And also they announced recently

spk_0 that season four will be the last season.

spk_0 Kim Renfrow, how do you feel about that?

spk_0 Does that feel like, hey,

spk_0 that feels like enough time to get all this stuff done, yeah?

spk_0 Yeah, for sure.

spk_0 I had been, I had like some friends asking me earlier this year,

spk_0 how long I thought House of Dragons would go.

spk_0 And I really couldn't see it going beyond four seasons

spk_0 unless they started super milking the time

spk_0 between some of the big events.

spk_0 So yeah, that's in line was sort of what I expected.

spk_0 And it does seem like it'll be,

spk_0 they're going to continue doing eight episode seasons

spk_0 is also the indication that we've gotten from Ryan Condal.

spk_0 Well, we'll talk about that

spk_0 because it's been quite controversial for this season.

spk_0 But yeah, that seems like enough time to me.

spk_0 Yeah, 24, not 24 more episodes, 16 more episodes.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 There's also multiple live action shows in development, right?

spk_0 Egon's conquest, there is 10,000 ships

spk_0 and another untitled one in development.

spk_0 There's multiple animated shows in development,

spk_0 like nine voyages and golden empire

spk_0 and some untitled ones.

spk_0 Not really going to talk too much about those

spk_0 because it's possible none of those happen.

spk_0 But I did want to just mention

spk_0 that other Game of Thrones shows are in development.

spk_0 So that's what people can expect

spk_0 when it comes to Game of Thrones in the future.

spk_0 Now, let's talk a little bit about the finale

spk_0 just because we're going to spend a lot of time

spk_0 talking about the finale today.

spk_0 I think it's just interesting to take a look

spk_0 at some facts about the finale.

spk_0 So first of all,

spk_0 like ratings for House of Dragon

spk_0 have been interesting to observe this season.

spk_0 The short version of the story as far as I can tell

spk_0 is ratings for season two of House of Dragon

spk_0 were down this year compared to season one.

spk_0 Not that much, but slightly.

spk_0 I'm reading here from deadline.com.

spk_0 Season two is averaging nearly 25 million cross-platform

spk_0 viewers per episode to date.

spk_0 This was in August 5th, this article is written.

spk_0 This is down compared to the same metric for season one

spk_0 when by the finale episodes were averaging

spk_0 around 29 million viewers.

spk_0 Now, I need to start by saying

spk_0 those numbers make this show a massive hit.

spk_0 Like this is one of the most successful shows on television

spk_0 just in terms of ratings alone.

spk_0 That said, I do think it's interesting

spk_0 that it does feel like we have found the ceiling

spk_0 for this show in terms of viewer interest.

spk_0 And it is striking that overall,

spk_0 that individual episodes are up and down versus season one.

spk_0 I think the finale had more viewers than season two premiere,

spk_0 which is good, but overall,

spk_0 if you look at viewing across max and all the other DVR

spk_0 and all the platforms, season two is down from season one.

spk_0 Here is a comment from Reddit.

spk_0 I found discussing this phenomenon

spk_0 from a user named Trek's Cant Masterbait.

spk_0 Trek's Cant Masterbait writes,

spk_0 I'm the only person I know who's watching season two,

spk_0 and I know quite a few people who watch season one.

spk_0 A common answer as to why they won't watch

spk_0 is the two-year wait.

spk_0 It was the one thing they were already invested in a show,

spk_0 but apparently asking them to remember

spk_0 a shit from two years ago is a bit much.

spk_0 Honestly, I get it.

spk_0 And quote,

spk_0 What has been your anecdotal experience

spk_0 of season two versus season one?

spk_0 Because I'll say anecdotally,

spk_0 I do feel like the interest has waned a little bit.

spk_0 Online, there's still huge fandoms,

spk_0 but I remember everyone was talking about season one

spk_0 of House of the Dragon,

spk_0 and it has not felt that way for season two.

spk_0 What has been your experience?

spk_0 Hmm.

spk_0 Part of my brain is still thinking about T-Rex Cant Masterbait.

spk_0 Yes. Oh, yeah.

spk_0 It's T-Rex Cant Master.

spk_0 Not Trek's.

spk_0 That's Trek's.

spk_0 Well, you just stood out without even looking at it.

spk_0 I was sitting there being like,

spk_0 that's a funny, and then I was like,

spk_0 oh, I could,

spk_0 I think I just automatically like see Reddit user names

spk_0 in the minds, and I was like,

spk_0 this is the tiny arms.

spk_0 I should have figured that out right away.

spk_0 Oh,

spk_0 oh,

spk_0 yeah, I don't, I,

spk_0 I will say I feel like I'm in a somewhat unique position

spk_0 for this season of House of the Dragon,

spk_0 and any, you know, for it being any Game of Thrones season

spk_0 overall, this is the first time that I've not been

spk_0 gainfully employed as a entertainment reporter

spk_0 while a season of the show was coming out.

spk_0 Not to mention,

spk_0 I've been in my newborn baby bubble.

spk_0 So I feel like I'm,

spk_0 I am not quite as plugged in

spk_0 in real life with people about the show,

spk_0 but even saying that,

spk_0 I do feel like I've been getting like the same level

spk_0 of sort of like texts for friends and like people,

spk_0 like the people that I do catch up with and make time for

spk_0 have been watching it.

spk_0 I've even talked to a couple people

spk_0 who started watching Game of Thrones for the first time

spk_0 because they were watching House of the Dragon

spk_0 and like enjoying it enough that they were like,

spk_0 oh, I'm actually going to go back and like

spk_0 see what this dragon thing's all about.

spk_0 So I don't know, but I,

spk_0 it also makes sense to me that like you said,

spk_0 we've sort of hit a ceiling perhaps with how many people

spk_0 are going to be on board for watching these prequel shows.

spk_0 And I will say it's like you said,

spk_0 it's still a big hit by a lot of standards

spk_0 and I think a lot about how people in,

spk_0 so like, right, Game of Thrones season eight,

spk_0 premier 2019, I feel like for most of 2020 and 2021,

spk_0 you could not escape the comments from people being like,

spk_0 that finale was so bad that like it's a race to the show

spk_0 from cultural memory, like it's had no impact,

spk_0 no one, it's crazy, no one gives a crap about the show anymore.

spk_0 And like a lot of people were really apprehensive,

spk_0 I think about any of the prequel shows

spk_0 let alone House of the Dragon and like the subject

spk_0 being what it is.

spk_0 And I think that given how much pessimism there was

spk_0 about the show being able to have any interest from anyone,

spk_0 like I think that it's done pretty well.

spk_0 And it's found this little pocket of viewers

spk_0 and by little pocket, you know,

spk_0 we're talking about millions of people.

spk_0 But yeah, I don't think anyone was ever expecting it

spk_0 to reach early seasons of Game of Thrones level hype.

spk_0 So yeah, maybe it's an expectation

spk_0 as far as this reality situation.

spk_0 It's good context.

spk_0 I remember those times when there was a lot of doubt

spk_0 as to whether they show whatever rise to the heights

spk_0 of Game of Thrones.

spk_0 And I think it has gotten not necessarily up there,

spk_0 like certainly close and occasionally exceeded, right?

spk_0 But I do think it's interesting that the number

spk_0 is not going up.

spk_0 It doesn't seem to be going up.

spk_0 You know, Game of Thrones has shown that increased

spk_0 its numbers year to year.

spk_0 And this is not a show that is doing that.

spk_0 I do think it is a show that really expects a lot

spk_0 from the viewer.

spk_0 It's a show that, because I remember watching the premiere.

spk_0 It's like, who the heck are all these people?

spk_0 You know, it's just, it's a show that you need to follow along.

spk_0 All these people, you need to know who all they are,

spk_0 you need to know all their names, many of the names are similar.

spk_0 And I do think that makes it difficult.

spk_0 Now that said, the audience of somewhat hardcore, medium hardcore

spk_0 fans, which I think is what you have to be to follow the show

spk_0 and book reader fans and so on, that is a huge audience.

spk_0 And that will be a profitable audience for HBO and Max

spk_0 for a long time.

spk_0 But yeah, I'm curious how this trend continues with season three.

spk_0 You know, like, is it going to get even lower for season three?

spk_0 Is it going to get bounced back?

spk_0 I do think, you know, to move on to our next topic.

spk_0 I do think that the reaction to season two will be damaging

spk_0 to the show in terms of getting new viewers.

spk_0 I'm not saying season three is going to be a failure or anything.

spk_0 Like, I think the show is going to have a wonderful, successful

spk_0 four season run.

spk_0 But it is a fact that season two's finale is the lowest rated

spk_0 episode of Game of Thrones ever, which by the way, I think is unfair.

spk_0 Meaning like rated, just for layman's terms, I feel like when I

spk_0 first entered the world of like TV reporting, I was genuinely confused

spk_0 by the fact that ratings both means viewership and like, how many

spk_0 out of five stars are people giving it?

spk_0 Right?

spk_0 I apologize.

spk_0 I use the various spur, I've used a very spurious,

spk_0 asperiast thing.

spk_0 So essentially, this has been, this has been the headline.

spk_0 And I, let me, I want to be really clear what this is, right?

spk_0 So this is a, on IMDB, people can rate shows by,

spk_0 right?

spk_0 By like a star rating out of 10, right?

spk_0

spk_0 And this show apparently season two episode eight,

spk_0 was rated 6.6, which is the lowest rating for any a song of

spk_0 Eisenhower show since Game of Thrones, which is rated 4.0.

spk_0 Now, that is not a meaningful number by any, like who gives

spk_0 a shit like what the IMDB rating?

spk_0 Okay, so I want to contextualize not actually that important

spk_0 as a number, but I do think it's a sign of what at least a

spk_0 significant portion of the sentiment towards the episode was.

spk_0 Okay, that's all I'm saying.

spk_0 Not, I'm not saying it's actually meaningful, financially,

spk_0 or business-wise, but when you're trying to like get good word of

spk_0 mouth and build interest in a show, if a lot of people

spk_0 freaking hated the season finale, it's going to make it harder to

spk_0 get new people to sign onto the show, especially for show

spk_0 it's difficult to follow.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 It's like that it's, it's the inverse of what happened with I would

spk_0 say the final two episodes of Game of Thrones season three.

spk_0 With like the red wedding where like that was like, that was

spk_0 such a high point for the series and for fans and absolutely

spk_0 like change the tenor of the conversation into like you have

spk_0 to be watching this show and made up of people to an

spk_0 infur season four, whereas that is not what is happening right

spk_0 now with House of the Dragon.

spk_0 And in fact, the opposite can be said, I think, for a lot of

spk_0 portions of the fandom.

spk_0 So yeah, and, and, you know, to read right what I said, like,

spk_0 I actually think that,

spk_0 that's a little bit unfair.

spk_0 Like I don't think that episode was that, you know, I think we

spk_0 were pretty measured in our criticism of there, there are some

spk_0 great scenes.

spk_0 It just felt like a weird place to end the season and many

spk_0 people made that observation.

spk_0 So I mean, let's talk about, there's been so much conversation

spk_0 about this, so let's try to dive into it.

spk_0 We're going to start dive into it.

spk_0 We'll take a break and then continue the conversation here.

spk_0 But Jefferson wrote into us at a cast King's a Gino calm and

spk_0 kind of wrote what something many people have felt, including

spk_0 me on the episode that while episode eight was a fine

spk_0 episode, it didn't feel like a finale.

spk_0 It felt like the eighth episode of a 10 episode season.

spk_0 And that's because it literally was end quote.

spk_0 And then Jefferson goes on to outline exactly what has gone on.

spk_0 What the timeline has been, right?

spk_0 So Kim, how do you, how do you want to do this?

spk_0 Should we read the Jefferson email?

spk_0 Should we go over this timeline you've written here?

spk_0 What do you think we should do?

spk_0 I think we should go over the timeline I've written because

spk_0 all respect to Jefferson.

spk_0 I really appreciate the full email.

spk_0 Like what Jefferson wrote it and what I've seen a lot of the

spk_0 conversation on in online has been a, I think, slight misinterpretation

spk_0 of what has been actually reported.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 And that's very fair because not everybody goes in and reads every

spk_0 single article that's ever produced about this.

spk_0 But yeah.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 So in August of 2022, HBO renews House of Dragon for a second

spk_0 season, the same week as the season one premiere, no episode

spk_0 count recorded reported in that in that situation.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Some people speculated that it might be 10 episodes because the first season

spk_0 was 10 episodes, but no one said it's going to be 10 episodes.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And also I think of note in that same month, like a couple of weeks later,

spk_0 again, right in the early stages of season one, airing, we found out that

spk_0 Miguel Sapachnik, who was a co-show runner and director in season one,

spk_0 and people know him from his work on Game of Thrones, was stepping away

spk_0 for the rest of the series.

spk_0 And that instead Alan Taylor was stepping in as a producer, but the Miguel

spk_0 Sapachnik was no longer going to be involved with the show.

spk_0 And so I think that that's also something to like have context within about

spk_0 like how the overall plans for the series might have changed after season one.

spk_0 Now that Ryan Condole was the sole show runner.

spk_0 All right.

spk_0 So in January 2023, according to producer and writer Sarah Hess, the scripts

spk_0 for season two were done.

spk_0 We don't have a sense of how many scripts there were, right?

spk_0 At that at that moment.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 They don't like, again, we'll get to this on the timeline, but like later reporting

spk_0 says that there was some initial plan for a 10 episode arc that changed at some

spk_0 point.

spk_0 We do not know exactly when that changed, but we know that Sarah has has said

spk_0 that the scripts were done in January 2023.

spk_0 And then here's the thing that a lot of people are talking about in March of

spk_0 2023, a deadline article.

spk_0 This is what a lot of people have been pointing to.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 According to the deadline article, I hear the initial plan was for another 10

spk_0 episode arc, which eventually changed leading to some script rewrites.

spk_0 Given the leadership change at HBO's parent company, some pointed at Warner

spk_0 Brothers discoveries, leadership's focus on cost cutting.

spk_0 And HBO's spokesperson who is confirmed to deadline that season two will

spk_0 contain eight episodes, stress that the episode count trim with story driven.

spk_0 And quote, so that is that's the thing that a lot of people have

spk_0 focused on that literally that quote I just said is that it was originally for

spk_0 10 episodes, it was cut down to eight.

spk_0 That would make a lot of sense based on what we saw, by the way, in the show.

spk_0 And then the each like this episode, count being story driven feels like it is

spk_0 them kind of towing the company line or or adhering to the company line.

spk_0 Now, just some context during this entire time period, Warner Brothers discovery

spk_0 is going through chaos.

spk_0 Like the company's been taken over by a complete,

spk_0 by someone else who was not in keeping with these, you know, by a person who

spk_0 did not necessarily have the same creative spirit as the former head of the company.

spk_0 And and they they have a when they when the company take over happen, I think

spk_0 they had something on the order of like over $50 billion of debt that they had

spk_0 the service. And so like cost cutting has been an enormous focus of the new Warner

spk_0 Brothers discovery.

spk_0 I will just say I'm honestly impressed that they've been able to keep the flow of the show.

spk_0 And you know, we have interacted with the PR people like they've been so wonderful

spk_0 this season.

spk_0 I'm honestly like impressed that it has been shielded from us as like, you know,

spk_0 like we have not felt it as creative people working on a on a house drag and

spk_0 podcast during this entire time.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But the company has been in a really challenging state.

spk_0 So this fits right in with that narrative that like they would say, Hey, you can't do

spk_0 10 episodes.

spk_0 We don't have the money.

spk_0 That would make complete sense.

spk_0 Kim run for any reaction to this.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think it's I think that all of those points are important context.

spk_0 And I also feel like people, I feel like too many people have run with this assumption

spk_0 that like it was reported and that it's a fact that like the only reason why season,

spk_0 like this idea that they had 10 episodes fully fleshed out and that in March,

spk_0 just a month before filming started, they got this order to cut down to eight episodes.

spk_0 And I don't think that that is quite a fair interpretation of the reporting.

spk_0 This article came out in March 2023.

spk_0 But we don't know that like that is the time frame in which this like that the change was given, right?

spk_0 So again, like going back to the idea that Sarah has said that by January,

spk_0 they had the scripts finished.

spk_0 It's entirely possible that like the reporting only came out in March.

spk_0 And then HBO confirmed within this deadline article, like, yes, it is only going to be eight episodes.

spk_0 That does not mean that like it was so last minute as to like

spk_0 the month before filming began, they had to change everything from like they had to scramble to like do this 10

spk_0 episode to eight episode shift.

spk_0 It sounds more to me like at some point after season one aired, right?

spk_0 That Ryan Condole, as now like the Soul Showrunner and in conversation with George R Martin,

spk_0 found out that they would have about three to four seasons worth of time to tell the story.

spk_0 And I'm sure got some more information about the budgeting and resources that he would have allocated to each season

spk_0 and made the call to break up all of the major plot points in fire and blood in this way.

spk_0 And so in the same deadline article that came out in March,

spk_0 the reporter Nellie and Dreeva says that like part of Ryan Condole figuring this out meant

spk_0 moving a portion of the plot quote originally intended for season two, including a major battle,

spk_0 unquote, got moved to season three.

spk_0 And then that is in line with now what Ryan Condole has said in some post-mortem interviews

spk_0 about the season.

spk_0 And so it's like, yes, it's almost like it's it sounds to me like it was both.

spk_0 Like it was both factoring in, okay, with the resources that it sounds like I'm going to have for season two,

spk_0 I'm not going to be able to pull off this big final battle in the way that we want to.

spk_0 And so I'm going to rework maybe what had originally been planned for for fitting that into season two

spk_0 into a season three.

spk_0 And that like they had that it was like it was more intentional on their behalf than maybe some

spk_0 people are assuming. Myself included when I first saw the finale and was just sort of

spk_0 greeting these headlines and before I had really gone in and read a lot of the reporting around

spk_0 this. So yeah, like it's like certainly like the the the line of like that it was entire like

spk_0 that the trim was totally story driven is like if they had unlimited money and time,

spk_0 would they have made those story driven changes? Probably not. But like I don't know, it seems like

spk_0 they also it wasn't like this last minute slapdash thing that some people are assuming.

spk_0 So yeah. Let's take a break for a sponsor. We'll be back with more conversation about this topic

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spk_0 fan of Factor really think you should try them out if you haven't yet and thanks to Factor

spk_0 for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Yeah, so great rundown Kim. I think the reason a lot

spk_0 of people reacted that way is because it just that episode eight of season two feels like

spk_0 we're just interrupted in the middle of the story. You know, I think it's because of the feel

spk_0 because it's clearly kind of building up to this thing that's going to happen that we don't even

spk_0 as a show watcher, you don't really really even know what it is. Yeah. And so there's this feel of

spk_0 oh well and people are looking for answers. It's like it's got to be that they at the last

spk_0 second they had to figure out just abruptly and this like it feels so abrupt that I think people

spk_0 just assumed oh there must have been some tinkering by the bean counters over at Warner Brothers but I

spk_0 think you're right that they knew this going in. It feels like they knew this going in that they

spk_0 would only have the resources to do it this much and they kind of shaped episode eight to kind of

spk_0 tee up the next thing as well as they could given the resources they had. Yeah. That's kind of what

spk_0 the conclusion is. Yeah. And like I completely agree that like I still think that you can see

spk_0 the you can I think that it is still visible to me on screen and in terms of just story structure

spk_0 that eight episodes was not quite the original plan when this season got outlined and that in the

spk_0 last chunk in particular I feel like you can kind of see the moving around of certain scenes

spk_0 to attempt to make a complete season that lands that attempts to land like with some sort of like

spk_0 emotional climax while absolutely needing to like serve as a bridge into what's about to happen

spk_0 at the start of season three and I don't fault people for for for like rubbing up against that

spk_0 because I certainly did when I was watching it like it felt like an attempt was made to rework this

spk_0 into an eight episode season and like it didn't those pieces didn't quite fit as smoothly together as

spk_0 I think they probably hoped they would. Yeah. You have other bits of the timeline here Kim do you

spk_0 think we should go over them? I think you kind of summed them up already. I did sum them up I guess

spk_0 the last thing to say is that like again maybe a reason why it didn't those puzzle pieces didn't

spk_0 seem to fit as smoothly together is because of the writers could be because of the writer's strike

spk_0 and not to say that like oh they literally had to rewrite the episodes in four weeks and then

spk_0 the writer's strike happened so then like they couldn't put like again I think that like they largely

spk_0 had this structured out a couple months before the writer's strike even began but it is reasonable

spk_0 to say that like they did not have the flexibility that showrunners often do have once production

spk_0 actually begins and by production beginning I mean like filming has started right? Yeah so filming

spk_0 started in May of 2023 April. Oh April sorry and then the writer's strike began in May. So

spk_0 and the reason is that the sort of union situation is different in the UK where this show is filmed

spk_0 and or in the EU right? I don't know exactly where it's from. That's part of it for like because then

spk_0 remember there was a sag the sag strike started shortly after that and so both strikes did not

spk_0 affect production of House the Dragon. The writer's strike meaning that instead of what often

spk_0 happens with TV shows and I believe was the case in the past with House the Dragon where you would

spk_0 actually have a writer on set with you as episodes are being filmed usually it's the writer of the

spk_0 episode of those scenes and they can kind of step in sometimes tweak lines adjust things and all of

spk_0 that is considered working writing right? And so because of the strike they did not have any of those

spk_0 episode writers on set or involved with production. On top of that Ryan Condal and Sarah has themselves

spk_0 are credited writers for the show and so the way that they were able to continue production

spk_0 is by spending their time during filming solely in what's called like the producer role not

spk_0 writer role which again means that they were not supposed to be and according to them they were

spk_0 not doing any type of dialogue tweaking any adjusting and according to like a lot of people in

spk_0 the business like that does happen to a pretty like large extent sometimes with TV shows where like

spk_0 potentially a a showrunner can see that something isn't quite working out in the way that they

spk_0 had hoped once it's actually being filmed or hey maybe this Damon stuff is actually kidding for

spk_0 repetitive or like something like that right right or why are we why are we focusing so much

spk_0 on Thailand Lannister right in the final episode and and you cannot make those changes right you

spk_0 know so you might be able to make those changes a little bit on the fly if there's no writer strike going

spk_0 on but if there's a writer strike going on you cannot alter the script and so you know we have we

spk_0 have been through a writer strike before Kim I don't think you were in the industry at that time

spk_0 right the last writer strike now I was a wee high schooler but I think that you know during during

spk_0 the last writer strike it's there was many shows that there were many shows that were like cut short

spk_0 or that couldn't be made you know or like it was very obvious that the writer strike interfered

spk_0 with it whereas in this season it's it's less so because apparently the scripts were locked

spk_0 prior to the show began beginning but their ability to change course and correct was curtailed

spk_0 because of the strike and so it's possible we're also seeing stuff that's the result of that as well

spk_0 yeah and then finally there was one interview that Ryan Condolegave in June of 2024 saying

spk_0 why the the shorter season is happening he says quote there are host of factors that went into

spk_0 that decision it's a big ambitious show and it could become unwieldy in terms of the number of

spk_0 few days you have and certainly the amount of resources you have to make it we have a phenomenal

spk_0 amount of resources but those are still finite end quote so this is kind of a very polite way of saying

spk_0 we ran out of money and couldn't do everything and couldn't do everything we wanted to do that's

spk_0 that's kind of my interpretation that quote yeah yeah at least not in like not in the way that

spk_0 he thinks what have actually been gratifying to people aka like cheaper budgets or shorter scenes

spk_0 you know and I've seen people talk about the fact that like um you know game of thrones had so

spk_0 many had like these epic battles and often those were like in the penultimate scene and in this season

spk_0 it seems like they kind of used the dragon claiming to be like their big penultimate moment I think it

spk_0 is not worthy worth noteworthy worth noting though that's the same things um well done you know

spk_0 this season in eight episodes had rook's rest and the dragon claiming which like in a regular season

spk_0 of game of thrones like one of those would have been like we would have pointed to as being like oh

spk_0 that was it like that was like the big moment so they had two this season in in those eight

spk_0 episodes and it sounds like the the next sort of big set piece moment is going to happen pretty early

spk_0 in season three and yeah like they just simply felt like they couldn't pull it off with

spk_0 a one season budget and I'm like that's valid even again if we are feeling the result like if we're

spk_0 feeling the sort of rocky result of the way that they paste and structured this second season here but

spk_0 like it feels to me like when all is said and done when we have the four seasons if someone goes back

spk_0 and binges them all in a row I think that this season will hold up pretty well um once you can

spk_0 roll right from that season to finale into what they're gonna set up in season three so

spk_0 yeah all right well that's kind of our thoughts on the production schedule of this season and I

spk_0 think that's important because a lot of people have been saying HBO cut down the episode order and

spk_0 it's just a little bit more complicated than that they clearly knew that that's what they're gonna

spk_0 have going in but there are all these other factors that might have impacted why the episode and

spk_0 the season ended that way all right we have way more to discuss we're we're just getting started

spk_0 here so let's get into it uh bunch of emails to a cast of kings gmail.com let's start with this one

spk_0 oh oh this is uh this is a good one I actually brought some um some audio

spk_0 audio tape here for this one key from north havin kineticon writes at the beginning of season two

spk_0 episode four the red dragon and the gold we see Damon experience his second heron hall dream

spk_0 during which he talks to teenage rinira and behead her her severed head speaks to him though her voice

spk_0 is layered with a deeper voice as it says there's been a raven i believe the deeper voice is none

spk_0 other than brands Simon strong wakes him up and repeats the line as i said there's been a raven

spk_0 but to me it is clearly not his voice in the dream does anyone else aside from my wife here this

spk_0 obviously later this season we see Damon's vision included the three-eyed raven but this is a

spk_0 is this a sign that brand is directing what Damon sees tell me i'm not as crazy as he was going into

spk_0 that cursed keep all right so uh i have a clip from the episode what you are going to hear is

spk_0 beheaded rinira speaking valarian and she says something along the lines of isn't this what you

spk_0 wanted right and then she will say there's been a raven and then you'll hear Damon wake up and then

spk_0 you'll hear Simon strong save has been a raven now the question is when she says there's been a raven

spk_0 is that brand's voice overlaid on top of it let's take a listen

spk_0 that's been a raven

spk_0 mario grace slet well and trust as i said there's been a raven

spk_0 Kim any assessment as to whether that's a brand's voice there i also i went and rewatched this like

spk_0 four times when i saw this email it's certainly like it's brand-esque it could be it could be

spk_0 but i'm not so confident as to say like yes that is Isaac him stood right like audio cameoing

spk_0 into how it's clearly not Simon strong though i think no and it is clearly more male

spk_0 and like again like distorted and i like i turned on the close captionings and it just says like

spk_0 distorted vocal so maybe and like even if it's not meant to be brand specifically i think it would

spk_0 make sense if they were trying to kind of give us a little hint as to the fact that we would see

spk_0 blood raven later in the show which like we do see him the if brand becomes the three-eyed raven

spk_0 in game of thrones but the three-eyed raven before him was a Targaryen known as blood raven

spk_0 so even if it's not meant to be brand maybe it's an illusion to the fact that there is this male

spk_0 figure creeping beneath a werewood at some point in this history of timeline in westroes and that

spk_0 that person does have the ability to sort of hop in and out of vision quests as we see

spk_0 Damon do so i don't know inconclusive on my end but certainly a good catch of like what was up

spk_0 with that male voice because it it is not Simon strong yeah it's very possibly very possibly so

spk_0 no no discriminator mat cue from Nashville writes c smoke chose adam because he's the half brother

spk_0 of his former writer laynor vermithor chose you hammer due to his mother being Sarah daughter of

spk_0 king jaheras one of vermithor's first writers silver wing chose wolf because of his lineage as

spk_0 a son of king jaheras brother slice husband to silver wings former writer queen alasand

spk_0 so i don't think they're choosing them purely due to having targaryen blood but rather having a close

spk_0 familial connection to the dragon's former writers and my way off here thanks and happy potting

spk_0 end quote kim run for is met cue from national wayoffer is he right on i think he's right on uh this

spk_0 is something that i hadn't realized until i saw other folks pointed out because house of the dragon

spk_0 it it made a change to make you an ulfs parentage clear like this it fire and blood it's not

spk_0 indicated that we know exactly which targaryen um fathered or mothered them but house that because

spk_0 house the dragon made that more explicit and if you follow the the backwards timeline of all the

spk_0 writers of these dragons then yeah all three of the new writers do have these direct bloodline

spk_0 connection to their dragrige previous writers which is cool all right we got some emails about

spk_0 this auto high tower situation so in the finale of season two we see auto high tower

spk_0 in a cage for a second like three seconds there was an interview and variety with gita

spk_0 vasant Patel who is the director of this episode and she has asked the question

spk_0 we see auto high tower locked up in a dungeon somewhere where is he and gita vasant Patel says

spk_0 i was asked to shoot that scene i want to know where he is too i don't know i don't know those guys

spk_0 talk about a lot of things in the writers room and they they don't tell us they don't tell any of us

spk_0 they don't tell the actors either i don't think it's fair i'd quote

spk_0 which is just a wild thing to say in an interview promoting the show i have to say

spk_0 i admire the the honesty uh lady Tracy from house d'Arnell writes in the decoding tvhgma.com hey guys

spk_0 love listening to you every week just wanted to give my thoughts on the auto thing the only thing

spk_0 that makes sense in my head as to who would have moustage is the beesberries they've been mentioned

spk_0 several times is giving the high tower army some pushback or trouble and retribution for what

spk_0 happened to lord beesberry so it makes sense that they would have him possibly couldn't be teen black

spk_0 or we would know about that i feel what are your thoughts and quote now came ran for oh uh i think

spk_0 you and jesse said you don't know where auto high tower is in the case right like even from the book

spk_0 you don't know exactly right right because in fire and blood auto never leaves kings landing

spk_0 the way that he did in house of the dragon he is fired as hand of the king by egg on and kristen

spk_0 coal is promoted to replace him um but it's almost similar to like what we had talked about like

spk_0 daemon this season like in this period of the events that are recounted in fire and blood there's

spk_0 just not much information about what auto is up to but certainly he's not jailed by anyone um so

spk_0 yeah i totally agree with lately tracy that i think that that is the most likely answer um because

spk_0 there is mention in fire and blood about house beesberry kind of leading the charge in rebellion in

spk_0 the south against the high towers because not only are they pledging for teen black and queen

spk_0 viserys a small council and he was killed by kristen in that whole secret meeting the night the

spk_0 viserys died when everybody decided to move forward with crowning egg on um he was sort of like the

spk_0 first blood in that war because he was protesting the fact that they were about two you serve

spk_0 rain years claim he was killed and his family presumably either knows that or they just think that

spk_0 he's missing or imprisoned which is fire and blood kind of describes it as like they think he's

spk_0 just being held captive by king egg on and so that's why house beesberry is rebelling um but throughout

spk_0 season two basically in almost every small council meeting with teen green there was a background

spk_0 mention of the fact that house beesberry was still giving the high towers some trouble um and so

spk_0 it was very you know subtly implied that this might be why auto is now in hot water um plus

spk_0 combined with the fact that again because in the books auto isn't gone so they had those show

spk_0 invented scenes of allicent being like hey is anyone actually like heard from dad and everyone

spk_0 being like no but he's probably just busy and i remember at the time being like that's a that

spk_0 was like a weird thing for them to go out of their way to say like auto is it responding to

spk_0 allisants letters and now it's like oh because he was probably captured and for whatever reason

spk_0 um his fellow family members over there in in old town in in house high tower haven't

spk_0 dain't to inform anyone that auto has been captured or maybe like yeah maybe we're gonna find out

spk_0 that this was like a big secret thing and nobody realized that he was locked up because he was

spk_0 just like captured on route back to king slaying or something like that um well um we're calling

spk_0 it now thanks to lady tracet for how starnell it's the beesberries we'll find out all we need to do

spk_0 is wait two years to find out okay humstrong at decoding tv.com writes in about Ulf you know i

spk_0 i think we all had some fairly negative things to say about the depiction of Ulf last episode

spk_0 and humstrong wrote in a very compelling defense of the show's depiction of Ulf so

spk_0 he writes quote regarding Ulf i felt like this character his character this episode was consistent

spk_0 with the rest of the season all we've ever seen him do was grift the locals into free food and drinks

spk_0 with stories that he's a long lost son of a targary ambassador he acts completely entitled in that

spk_0 bar scene walking around grabbing food off of people's plates like he's a prince we also see that

spk_0 he's a complete coward or at least a bootlicker he would use viserys's name to gain the favor of

spk_0 people reminiscing about how his supposed to have brother never held large feasts while the

spk_0 normies were starving but is in the very first uh but is the very first to jump his feet and cheer

spk_0 on king egon when he randomly shows up at the bar when team black comes calling for potential dragon

spk_0 writers it becomes clear that Ulf never believed his own story as he desperately tries not to go

spk_0 only giving in due to the pressure of all the people he'd been lying to all these years um i was

spk_0 side note from david Chen here uh yeah there is that scene where he says oh i'd love to go but my

spk_0 injury you know i have i have this horrible injury that prevents me from and but then he doesn't

spk_0 go anyway back to the email or the comment at deconikdv.com of course it turns out that he does have

spk_0 dragon blood and when he realizes he thinks he's gonna be welcomed in as family and we'll be able to

spk_0 ride easy from here on out he's not trying to stick it to his the highborn he thinks he's now one of

spk_0 them and can act freely scuffing up the princess hair making inappropriate jokes at the dinner table

spk_0 the man is a buffoon it still doesn't dawn on him that he has he was brought there to ride a nuke

spk_0 into war not to be the fun drunk uncle and i've got some great points here just tracing the

spk_0 the arc of Ulf throughout the season uh i think you know it's your mileage may vary as to like how

spk_0 believable you find his his sort of behavior in that situation um and and maybe the show is going to

spk_0 use his obliviousness to some interesting dramatic effect next season it felt like the show is

spk_0 kind of just milking it for laughs um in ways that didn't feel super plausible to me but you know

spk_0 i think uh humstrung makes some great points here came renfro any any reaction to this email

spk_0 i definitely love this interpretation of sort of like his actions and like you said sort of

spk_0 charting his characterization i think it makes a lot of sense and yeah for me it's hard it's hard

spk_0 to parse out whether like my annoyance with this character was yeah yeah the the result of what

spk_0 i'm supposed to be feeling about him versus it feeling like a like a maybe tonally out of place or

spk_0 like you said like maybe like over um overwrought depiction of him because yeah i just my irritation

spk_0 with him i i felt i was like i think i am supposed to be this annoyed with him like it's like i'm on

spk_0 jace and like atoms side at that dinner table of being like uh like this guy like you know yeah calm

spk_0 down you're not that you're not hot stuff right so yeah also great yeah i was gonna say should we

spk_0 jump to this other email yeah yeah yeah there is one more email that's related to this subject but

spk_0 let's take one quick break for a sponsor we'll be back with more conversation about this right

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spk_0 relating to the Ulf at dinner scene uh she a food professional living in Amsterdam originally

spk_0 from north carolina writes into a cast of kings jima.com during the finale episode my ears

spk_0 perked up when i heard ulth asked for more of the little birds my mind immediately went to the

spk_0 ordalon this small bird is a highly controversial and illegal french delicacy uh to quote the horrors

spk_0 of their preparation they are kept in dark cages force fed figs and millet until they've doubled

spk_0 in size drowned in branding plucked roasted and eaten feet first in a single bite leaving just

spk_0 a beak behind it's tradition to put an napkin over your head when you eat them so that god can't

spk_0 see you sin this dates to roman times when british and french cuisine was more intermingled

spk_0 i couldn't help but wonder if this is a clever metaphor for the horrors being discussed at the table

spk_0 as rinira asked her writers and their dragons both larger than life to commit the indiscriminate

spk_0 slaughter of innocence little birds if you will only ulth seemed unbothered rather than where the

spk_0 proverbial napkin he instead lays his sin bear for all to see he consumes the little birds with glee

spk_0 and is eager to do the same to the small folk in he and rinira's way i know this

spk_0 is long but i think i i have to think the request for little birds is a way for the show to use

spk_0 food to tell the story of pain death and apathy that in the end only serves the one who consumes

spk_0 i hope this isn't too niche to make the podcast obviously feel free to edit it down uh i didn't

spk_0 edit it down uh shake and close a great email great email great email uh you know i did have the

spk_0 orderline but i was first introduced to this concept in the hp original series succession which

spk_0 references yeah i thought about too yeah and when he says little birds i'm like huh what a what a

spk_0 weird thing to ask for but yes it is we don't know that it's a ordalon that he's eating here i

spk_0 didn't see any people covering their heads with napkins in the show um but it certainly could have been

spk_0 so yeah yeah yeah any other reaction to this kid just that i thought it was a great point and i

spk_0 love when when people pick up on details like that because it was a distinct piece of diet and like

spk_0 the fact that he like repeated the request like it makes sense to me that there is something there

spk_0 was something intentional there in in that being a piece of his um display here at the dinner table

spk_0 yeah it's probably some kind of delicacy in in the world of west russ right right and certainly like

spk_0 you know them coming him and he coming from the king's landing situation they were in in which

spk_0 like they hadn't had anything better than like a watery bowl of fish stew it seemed like in

spk_0 weeks if not months and so for him to be the one at the table who's like really indulging in all

spk_0 of the riches that are now available to them um makes a lot of sense all right let's talk about

spk_0 visual effects and show production this one comes in from Brandon writing you to cast kings

spk_0 gmail.com hello cast king's trio i realized recently i've been listening to a cast of kings for

spk_0 10 years question mark i've always appreciated processing new episodes of shows in this world with

spk_0 the hosts whether i agree with her thoughts or not anyway my question for you is regards to the

spk_0 pattern that has been developing during the hbo ison fire shows is this insistent on longer episodes

spk_0 but shorter seasons seasons one through six of game of thrones were 10 episodes followed by the

spk_0 infamous season seven and eight being seven and six episodes with house of the dragon season two

spk_0 ending at eight episodes i'm finding myself feeling like this method is dragging things out

spk_0 i remember early seasons of game of thrones being 50 to 55 minutes but now with almost every episode

spk_0 blowing up to 60 to 90 minutes but for your episodes it feels off the finale essentially

spk_0 felt like a trailer for season three and it was still over 60 minutes long was curious if you guys

spk_0 add any thoughts on episodes being shorter but we get more of them this season had some intriguing

spk_0 moments great sets wardrobe and art wonderful acting and wild v effects but overall felt like it was

spk_0 lacking i can't help but think about the hundreds of millions of dollars used only for the plot to

spk_0 have many episodes of things of stretching things out again thank you end quote all right it is a

spk_0 fact i think that every episode this season has been pretty long 55 to 60 minutes or more i think

spk_0 this this season uh and that uh you know tv episodes in general used to be shorter

spk_0 curious Kim what you think the impact of this has been yeah it seems to me to be a trend

spk_0 not just with these a song of ice and fire based tv shows but like overall in television i feel

spk_0 like it's rare that we get long seasons meaning like more episodes at fewer like shorter run times

spk_0 basically my understanding is that that does have to do with budgeting reasons um and just the

spk_0 impact of you know like the net flicksification of tv production and the way that shows are sort of

spk_0 like greenlit in like these binge batches where they don't have to adhere to a 45 minute run time

spk_0 to account for commercials in a one hour time slot on cable tv you know um so there's a lot that

spk_0 goes into that and yeah it does one of the things that i thought of especially with like the final

spk_0 seasons of game of thrones was the fact that fewer episodes means less money spent on the casting

spk_0 budget because most my understanding is that most actors get paid on a per episode basis so if you can

spk_0 squeeze more content into fewer episodes you will save some money in the budget line on at least

spk_0 how much are paying the actors which you know sure sag has feelings about that but

spk_0 right right i think uh you know there's a really cool experience to be had watching a very long

spk_0 episode of television like a 75 minute it's like oh wow i just watched like a movies worth

spk_0 of tv that felt like it had its own arc in a beginning middle and end and you know

spk_0 and i think that you know it's a quote a roger ebert i think you know no

spk_0 good movies ever too long no bad movies ever too short putting aside the production realities like

spk_0 if the episodes deliver and are thrilling and are well done like i don't really care how long

spk_0 they are um i i think there is a lot of memes about episode eight of season two of acid dragon because

spk_0 it felt like a lot of build up to nothing you know one of my favorites was the

spk_0 Nathan fielder uh he does this thing where i hope he's serving someone to play to food and he

spk_0 lifts the the the the cover off and there's nothing there and he's like i hope you're ready for nothing

spk_0 you know like and that's kind of what a lot of people felt like uh season two finale of

spk_0 acid dragon was you know that's that was the reaction i think it's not like oh the episode was so

spk_0 long it's the episode was so long and it felt like we were building up to something we're not

spk_0 gonna see for another two years yeah um so yeah uh okay there were some defenders of what was

spk_0 going on in season two finale you know uh patrick wrote into a cast of kings at gmail.com

spk_0 long time listener patrick you know we were talking about how alan and corpus they had the scene

spk_0 in this episode and i think you and jesse were musing on how maybe this could have been included

spk_0 earlier patrick writes if the alan and corpus scene had taken place in the previous episode it would have

spk_0 on scenes of corpus talking to adam and then alan to see if alan also wanted to try his like with

spk_0 dragon episode seven was packed with enough corpus and his valerian bastards um the alan corpus scene

spk_0 taking place in the con it is taking place in the context of them rejoining the valerian blockade

spk_0 of blockade that episode eight establishes is an imminent danger of attack from a hierarchy fleet

spk_0 i know that you all are a bit down on how this episode was largely set up for season three but

spk_0 finale episodes and game of thrones often feature significant chunks of their episodes on setup

spk_0 sometimes couched spectacle uh usually with dragons but not always this episode leaned in on a motion

spk_0 and character rather than spectacle and maybe that's okay they've wanted to know if the show was

spk_0 trying to tell us that corpus and alan were important and if they're going to be in season three what

spk_0 why would someone think otherwise will the triarchy somehow miss the blockade can we imagine that

spk_0 raneer in next season will get a raven reporting that corpus and his right hand man were killed on the

spk_0 way back to their home planet if that happens i'll be happy to apologize to you for taking issue with

spk_0 criticism of the scenes inclusion in episode eight uh otherwise the season finale of season two

spk_0 i'm sorry the finale episode of season two is going to provide an excellent rewatch directly before

spk_0 episode one of season three you know we're all going to rewatch it before the premiere and we'll be

spk_0 caught up on the geopolitical events happening and where all the events and characters are

spk_0 emotionally i can't complain about that end quote so that's a great defense of like why that

spk_0 particular plotline is in that episode i mean i think that uh uh you know uh is it going to

spk_0 like is it is it going to be you know the question is not are we going to find out what happens to

spk_0 them right the question is are they going to be significant characters and how much are we going

spk_0 to invest in like i think this is a great defense of like why they put it there but in my defense

spk_0 game of thrones it's extremely well known for introducing characters that you're like is this

spk_0 going to be a major character i don't know right and then like literally you never hear from them again

spk_0 if we never heard from alan or adam ever again i would not be shocked i mean i i don't think

spk_0 that's going to happen i think that like we're going to get some resolution to it but it is not

spk_0 unreasonable for me to wonder if we're going to get more than five to ten minutes of time from this

spk_0 character in a future episode who knows what will happen there but great defense let's move on

spk_0 let's read met seemo from clac clacamas origan uh who writes in just a reminder in the first

spk_0 four seasons of game of thrones there are only two on screen battles this episode the season finale

spk_0 in my opinion was a reminder of what we found love with game of thrones in the first place

spk_0 well-written conversations between well-developed characters that develop their relationship and the

spk_0 overarching plot when we look back on season two and future seasons are done i think we will all

spk_0 be grateful for how well the show pays itself in order to provide the quality storytelling and character

spk_0 development not just in the name of providing spectacle and grandeur i hope you'd agree with me in

spk_0 saying we didn't fall in love with game of thrones for the battles we loved it because of the intrigue

spk_0 plotting and exceptional writing i firmly believe we got that in season two thank you again for all

spk_0 you do and enjoy you give me with your song of ice and fire coverage you are amazing and i appreciate

spk_0 you and quote oh mad thanks for the kind words appreciate you as well Kim uh your thoughts on

spk_0 madzino i agree overall with season two i think like literally up until episode eight i really

spk_0 wasn't taking any issue with the pacing that they were going with um i even was more warm on the

spk_0 Damon storyline than you and i know a lot of other people watching like that was a frequent thing

spk_0 that i saw commented upon um week to week and i also i i said this earlier but like i do really

spk_0 think that this season will age well in the full context of the story that they're telling um and

spk_0 part of why i think that is because episode to episode this season i was very impressed with

spk_0 so many great as we call them like two hander scenes you know i'm just like two actors two cameras

spk_0 in the room just filming a conversation i thought was great um and yeah just like great performances

spk_0 great writing and i part of the reason why i feel pretty confident about that is because of

spk_0 how i felt rewatching season one after i had seen the first four episodes of season two and i really

spk_0 was able to appreciate like oh there were like some conversations and scenes here that like

spk_0 didn't necessarily stand out to me as i was watching season one but now that i know

spk_0 where they're going with some of these characters or how they're having some of these plotlines play out

spk_0 it really felt like they did not waste a minute of that screen time on something that didn't have

spk_0 some sort of like good payoff whether emotional or plot wise later on and i'm pretty optimistic

spk_0 that the same will be true if we rewatch season two heading into season three of like that some of

spk_0 these some of these storylines and some of these uh writing choices will hopefully have good payoff

spk_0 down in season three and at the same time i understand the frustration of the pacing um and like

spk_0 the structure that they went with this season so yeah i i think my my issues with the show are not

spk_0 with this episode right are not why wasn't there a battle you know like right why don't we see

spk_0 more fighting i actually agree with Matt about why we fell in love with Game Thrones the first place

spk_0 uh you know and again i didn't you know some people like hated this episode like i i didn't hate

spk_0 the episode i just yeah oh that's it's kind of odd just kind of odd pacing kind of odd like where it

spk_0 leaves us it just feels like we're kind of very arbitrarily exiting the story yeah at a kind of a

spk_0 seem feeling like a random point in time yeah as opposed like when i look back on the season i don't

spk_0 feel like oh wow that was a satisfying season of television you know um that was a season that had

spk_0 an ebb and a flow and that felt like it had an arc that was making a point um i actually feel like

spk_0 season one had that right i feel like season one like obviously had some points that was trying to

spk_0 make landed in a really compelling place right that that both like set things up for the future and

spk_0 also felt like it brought kind of this season of television to a close so that's that was my issue

spk_0 not like we didn't see the battle what what's why why no dragon you know like that's that kind of my

spk_0 complaint it's more about yeah the the sort of subtlety of the pacing i agree and i i think

spk_0 i think that there has unfortunately been some overlap from book readers who were expecting a certain

spk_0 right set piece moment into the conversation of like why wasn't there a battle and i like

spk_0 right if if this was just if if this was once again like a season well i was i mean really it was

spk_0 only like the last few seasons of game of thrones but like where we didn't know where the story

spk_0 was going yet i don't think that people would have had the response of like why wasn't there some

spk_0 bigger action thing um because again we're used to that sort of rhythm of like the penultimate

spk_0 episode being the one where there's a big set piece moment and then the finale kind of ties

spk_0 everything together and sets the stage with like excitement and anticipation for like where all

spk_0 these characters are going to go next and i agree with you that like it's not that i wanted more

spk_0 quote-on-quote action it's that the way that they decided to land some storylines while introducing

spk_0 new like directions of some some plots like the tyland's triarchy thing was really only alluded to

spk_0 in one scene like one verbal exchange like three episodes before this i think it was like probably

spk_0 episode five or six is when a mint says like oh and by the way like go talk to the triarchy and like as

spk_0 we discussed in our main pod you as a non book reader thought that that was like literally the like

spk_0 last we were ever going to even hear of that suggestion let alone like right that this was really

spk_0 a story that they were bringing back into the fold of the triarchy and like that tyland had really

spk_0 physically left kigs landing to go there and so like those are just the little things that i think they

spk_0 may be failed to thread thread throughout the season to then make those scenes in the finale feel

spk_0 like oh we're getting a slight bow on the end of this season two storyline with a tease for how

spk_0 it's going to play out in season three and instead it was like hey we're still in the middle of like

spk_0 introducing what's happening here but now we're leaving like now we're now we're stepping away and so

spk_0 i can't shake the idea that it would have been better i've said this in the last episode like

spk_0 i can't shake the idea that in general not for every plotline but in general it would have been better

spk_0 to open season three with this episode yeah because i think it begins with uh tyland meeting the

spk_0 triarchy right yeah and so it's like a whole different location that anything we've ever seen on

spk_0 show this season and it was very disoriented and it just felt like oh man this would have been a great

spk_0 start for a new season to be like oh we haven't been in this world in like years uh hey a new place

spk_0 wow where where are we what's going to oh like i need to like really lean forward and pay attention you know

spk_0 um i couldn't stop thinking about that as i was watching the episodes like why didn't we start

spk_0 season three with this plot yeah and yeah you know so anyway i know you can't yeah go ahead go ahead

spk_0 i was gonna say and that's where when i think about the reporting that we have on the fact that there

spk_0 was at some point an initial plan for ten episodes probably prior to them figuring out that they

spk_0 were going to have four seasons and it just feels like you know at some point ryan kondal looked at the

spk_0 full timeline of where they want to end the series and in theory they've always kind of known where

spk_0 they wanted to end it in terms of the plot that that's laid out in fire and blood and then he had

spk_0 to figure out how to chop that into four seasons and figure out an episode count and i i think that

spk_0 it's fair to say that there was a i i won't call it a miscalculation because i'm not that minutes

spk_0 there show and they can do whatever they want but in terms of how people are receiving it and are

spk_0 feeling of the strangeness of the of the finale in general that that is what we are feeling is that

spk_0 there was a decision to chop up the story in a way that for us did not land well yeah so yeah

spk_0 all right Kim let's do an easy one okay somebody wrote in i thought the terrarians are fireproof

spk_0 how did egon get so badly burned uh what's the deal this comes in from james writing to

spk_0 cascades evil a com what's the deal with terrarians getting burned Kim uh this is i feel like this is

spk_0 gonna haunt me and probably George our martin for the rest of our lives um terrarians are not meant

spk_0 to be fireproof in any way shape or form George our martin has been saying this as far back as

spk_0 1998 was just hilarious at the end of the 20th century folks we were getting confirmation from

spk_0 George our martin that terrarians are not fireproof he always intended for denaris's emerging from the

spk_0 the pyre with her dragons to be a special one-time like blood magic ritual effectively that she sort of

spk_0 accidentally stumbled into in the books she has dreams about um like various sort of visions of

spk_0 dragons and fire and all these things that sort of like lead her into thinking that this is a good

spk_0 idea um and then david banyoff and db was in season six of game of thrones took it upon themselves

spk_0 to have the scene where she burns all of the calls and like emerges you know make it and find again

spk_0 but effectively recreating that scene which led a lot of people to assume that not only was she

spk_0 fireproof but that like all terrarians are and that is just not baked into the overall lore for

spk_0 terrarians so in fire and blood agon does get burned very badly and all of George our martins writing

spk_0 as terrarians are not intended to be fireproof but from a strictly show HBO adaptation standpoint

spk_0 there has been like wonkiness with the rules of fire and terrarians but in general i would assume

spk_0 no terrarian is fireproof even if they do seem to be attracted to fire and heat

spk_0 all right there you go i'm sure the topic is never going to come up for conversation

spk_0 uh as we've been looking back on the episode came i do find myself appreciating some things about

spk_0 the episode um for instance there is a beautiful shot towards the end of the episode where you see

spk_0 the allicent standing on a you know in front of the water she's free she's achieved what she wants

spk_0 she doesn't want to be part of the story anymore and then you see Rainiera and she's standing

spk_0 in this kind of uh you know the this kind of uh like libra almost yeah libra like with a

spk_0 almost honeycomb-esque you know diamond shaped scrolls all around her indicating her line of people

spk_0 mm-hmm and so she is standing in the context of all in which came before her and allicent is

spk_0 free and clear you know that's a very beautiful visual storytelling and we i don't think we

spk_0 remarked on that in our finale conversation i wanted to recall that out yeah i saw someone

spk_0 describe it as like it looks like rainiera is literally being like weighted in by history right and

spk_0 like the first part of history yeah the burden of her birthright as a Targaryen absolutely absolutely

spk_0 so that's some great stuff you know and when you think about their arcs from season one that's

spk_0 that's pretty pretty well done so far but i will tell you so that's something i really loved about

spk_0 the finale and you know that they did well i will tell you something i was not a fan of

spk_0 uh and the more i think about it the less of a fan of it i sometimes i'm watching the show

spk_0 and i'm thinking to myself oh you know i don't like this right now but maybe at the end

spk_0 i'll feel differently about it mm-hmm and the stuff i something i don't like and continue to not

spk_0 like is the Damon stuff i thought this this season with Damon was just outright bad uh and i don't

spk_0 feel like anything i've seen so far has changed my opinion on that

spk_0 cavern vent errandalk over at vol.3.com actually wrote an entire article about this topic

spk_0 hotd has a prophecy problem i'm gonna read from this article house the dragon has a more fundamental

spk_0 issue driving it's meandering aimlessness this the season it cannot let go of game of thrones

spk_0 despite being set 200 years in the past it is obsessed with relitigating the ties between

spk_0 least Targaryens and those Targaryens in stretches when it allows itself to forget about the fact

spk_0 that winter is coming the show can operate on its own terms allowing the stakes to play out

spk_0 in immediately impactful ways but inevitably somebody will say we'll turn around and say by the way

spk_0 have you heard of the song of ice and fire and it all goes to shit Damon has spent several episodes

spk_0 and some completely unknowable amount of in-world time messing around at her and hall and taking

spk_0 whatever hallucinogens alas rivers slips into his teeth all the while he's grown more ambitious

spk_0 more paranoid more focused on all the stuff we knew Damon was from the earliest episodes of the show

spk_0 he's a vicious egotistical man who deeply resents his dead brother and has never felt appreciated

spk_0 what this finale then asks us to believe is that when Damon sees a vision of his Targaryen descendants

spk_0 two centuries from now worries about them and immediately cast aside all the stuff that's driven

spk_0 him his entire life all of his sexual hang-ups his ears of frustration his inner turmoil over

spk_0 playing second fiddle to riniera his grief his striving none of that matters he wonders if

spk_0 perhaps the prophecy could be interpreted in a different way he never considers saying

spk_0 fuck it that's someone else's problem he immediately consigns the work of his whole lifespan

spk_0 to the service of a distant possible outcome he and his children will never live to see it's very

spk_0 noble it's unlike every single thing we've ever been told about him end quote

spk_0 I mean I am 100% on board with this article the whole Damon having the dream stuff was very

spk_0 boring in my opinion and not particularly an interesting way of resolving Damon's plotline

spk_0 while he was away from everyone but then to wrap it all up by saying oh it's cool he dreamed a

spk_0 dream of time gone by and now he's he's on board that's just bad storytelling in my opinion

spk_0 Kim Renfrow defended if you want if you wish if you wish if you wish I look I'm not in the

spk_0 business of telling anyone how they should feel about anything absolutely of course none of us

spk_0 would dare do that none of us would dare so like I am not I won't defend the storyline as being like

spk_0 as effectively told as it could have been the thing that I will defend a little bit is that

spk_0 my read on the order of events is not that like Damon right before touching that tree is still

spk_0 same old Damon and that like seeing the vision is the thing that changes him my understanding from

spk_0 what Alice says to him like before he touches the tree and gets the vision is that like we're supposed

spk_0 to feel as though he has he has already relinquished some of that old Damonness like she's talking before

spk_0 he touches the tree and gets the vision she's talking to him about how like now he can

spk_0 receive what has been given to him because he no longer thinks that like he has the right

spk_0 to control the world type of thing and I'm like totally fair to me if you think that that was not

spk_0 actually translated very well on screen either through the events of what Damon did this season

spk_0 or like the performances or whatnot but like my my understanding was not that like he got that

spk_0 vision and that is what changed him it's that all of his dreams and visions before and all of

spk_0 this sort of like reprocessing that I've kind of described it as of like reprocessing his memories

spk_0 of those fights with Viserys of his relationship to Rainiera of his desire for power at the cost of

spk_0 his personal relationships that like the scene and the gods would with little Oscar Tully and

spk_0 that all those river lords like I kind of felt like that episode was supposed to be his like little

spk_0 emotional catharsis and being like him him him seeing the error of his past ways and starting to go

spk_0 down this new path and then for whatever reason I do agree that like it was weirdly it was weirdly

spk_0 shown to us that like somehow that journey now means that he should have like that he should

spk_0 get access to this vision of the future and now be at peace with his part to play what not so like

spk_0 I'm mixed on it I don't hate it but I do slightly disagree with like saying that that the reason

spk_0 it's bad is simply that like we're supposed to assume that this vision is what changed Damon from

spk_0 being like a total asshole into being a more commendable man um yeah so I don't I don't know

spk_0 it's a weird one and I don't I I super don't blame people for receiving it the way that they have

spk_0 including you I think the only thing I'll say in response that is I don't agree I think that I

spk_0 think the reason is when Rainieras dude shows up right and and he says hey Damon like you should be

spk_0 the king you're you're the king that is supposed to be a tense moment for us right like because

spk_0 throughout the whole season we have had many moments and scenes of Damon saying I'm the king

spk_0 I'm the badass people should worship me and so when this guy comes in it's like hey you should be

spk_0 king we're we're like a part of us is like oh I wonder is Damon gonna do it is Damon gonna

spk_0 actually fall through um I think that's what you're supposed to feel and then oh no he doesn't he

spk_0 because he had the vision um and you're saying oh well he it's actually built up that he's had

spk_0 those thoughts and I'm like okay I guess but like I think the direction we're supposed to

spk_0 head of this season is oh wow he's really growing out of control and then I understand that the

spk_0 show just the arc of a season is it wanted him to dance with this idea of what if I was in charge

spk_0 and then to come back to Rainieras and I guess for me that the journey was not super satisfying of

spk_0 one yeah and and the biggest issue I think is hey the Damon Rainieras dynamic from season one

spk_0 was so strong like it was a really nice dynamic really interesting dynamic they just got taken

spk_0 away this season I know because it's in the book but like um it's a bar you know yeah it's like how um

spk_0 you know there's this rumor that like Vind Diesel doesn't get along with any of his posts and the

spk_0 fast fast and furious movies yeah but like everyone doesn't like him because he's a narcissist yeah

spk_0 this is allegedly like I don't know for a fact but you'll notice now when you watch fast X or fast 10

spk_0 you know uh Vind Diesel is just kind of like off hanging out on his own he's he's not having any

spk_0 plot lines with any of the other major characters really and you got to wonder why that is you know

spk_0 yeah and that's how how's the dragon is similar to the fast and furious franchise

spk_0 I will also say again not necessarily a defense but more like I'm when for me when I really like

spk_0 something like George R. Martin's a song of ice and fire universe um I tend to like really try

spk_0 to get at why it works for me yeah like and then conversely when something is not working

spk_0 I try to figure out why and I'm less occupied with like whether it's whether my feelings about it

spk_0 are quote unquote like right or wrong or anyone else's feelings are right or wrong and the prophecy

spk_0 thing to me is really interesting because I agree that it like I don't have as big of an issue with

spk_0 it as you do and as this article outlines um but I understand I can relate to the fact that

spk_0 it feels a bit forced and like I am ultimately very curious as to why Ryan Condole decided to

spk_0 have it be as big of a focus in house with a dragon as it is and not to say that I think he never

spk_0 should have but to me part of the reason why it is feeling unsatisfying or feeling maybe a

spk_0 bit ham fisted sometimes is because within George R. Martin's universe we still do not have any

spk_0 clarity on this prophecy and what his intentions are for it to be like thematically played out

spk_0 within the narrative we've talked about how in Game of Thrones they sort of had to

spk_0 Benny often wise sort of had to come up with what seems like their own interpretation of how

spk_0 this prophecy plays out and a lot of people think that it was mostly like a combination of Danny and

spk_0 John they're both Targaryens Arya Stark being thrown in there seems to be like entirely a

spk_0 Benny often wise choice you know like so the fact that House of the Dragon is both trying to

spk_0 hue perhaps a little more closely to George R. Martin's stories and published works

spk_0 because they can't right because like Fire and Blood is like this section of that Targaryen

spk_0 history has been completely outlined by George in this book as opposed to Game of Thrones

spk_0 and the Song of Ice and Fire novels which are unfinished and so it just to me like I don't

spk_0 I don't dislike the inclusion of it entirely but I'm also like what I think people are rubbing

spk_0 up against is the fact that like they're trying to seem to make a point about something that we don't

spk_0 know because George has not finished writing his Song of Ice and Fire novels and publicly released

spk_0 you know where he intended all this to go it's like they're trying to work within something that is

spk_0 incomplete and therefore it feels thin to us with a lot of the context of this story or it feels

spk_0 repetitive or redundant in a way that we can't fully connect and I'm like

spk_0 like again maybe Ryan Condal knows more about this than we do because he's talked to George

spk_0 R. Martin in the same way that Benny often weiss probably know things about George's intentions

spk_0 that we don't know yet because they have had private conversations and those conversations might

spk_0 have led to certain storylines being included or removed from their respective shows and it's

spk_0 just this big cloud of unknowns that I really wish I had insight to you know but alas we just

spk_0 got to keep waiting for those books to come out. Oh hi I will remain a sweet summer child.

spk_0 We're all set we're all so okay we will have some closing thoughts momentarily but in the meantime

spk_0 Kim Renfrow I mean I really enjoyed seeing these emails obviously many of them defending the

spk_0 episode some of them not defending the episode but really appreciate folks listening and hearing

spk_0 us react to their thoughts this episode. Kim Renfrow until next time working people find more of your

spk_0 work on the internet this week. You can find me right here on the cast of Kings and my past

spk_0 decoding TV episodes and then if you want more of my Game of Thrones related insight I wrote a book

spk_0 called the unofficial Guide to Game of Thrones which you can buy at local book stores or into your

spk_0 library there's an audio book you know there's there's many a way to absorb me. And I just want to

spk_0 well put and I just want to give a shout out to the decoding TV podcast check it out wherever

spk_0 all podcasts can be downloaded and you know this pod if you're supporting decoding tv.com you're

spk_0 supporting this podcast cast Kings and also decoding TV and we'll be covering prestige TV shows

spk_0 year round over on that show. All right Kim Renfrow do we have any closing thoughts about season two

spk_0 of House of the Drag anything else we didn't get to or any reactions that you wanted to discuss.

spk_0 I think overall I want to reiterate to me like an appreciation for what the show has done so far

spk_0 with fire and blood as it's blueprint. I think like any book to TV adaptation is tricky and fire and

spk_0 blood is like a particularly unique case and that it is not written as like a fleshed out novelization

spk_0 with a bunch of like really in-depth character development moments and stuff it really is kind of like

spk_0 a quickly moving description of these big set piece events taking place between a lot of really

spk_0 great like great conceptual characters right of like Damon being the second son and being this

spk_0 rogue prince and having this wild side and he wields dark sister and his dragon caraxies but like

spk_0 you know the show has done a lot to actually make Damon feel like a real person and madness

spk_0 performance and same can be said for Allison Hi-Tower and like Olivia Cook's performance and

spk_0 I just think overall I have really enjoyed seeing a lot of the decisions that they've made to

spk_0 either expand upon things that George has outlined in the books change them entirely in line with

spk_0 the sort of idea that you know history is subjective and that we're getting this one canonical version

spk_0 of events in the TV show and yeah I was re-listening to the score this morning because I've

spk_0 remained jolly finally released the the the score and while I was like working on my notes for

spk_0 for this podcast and yeah I just it feels good to get a TV show set in this very rich world that

spk_0 Martin created that has so much great attention to detail whether it is the score the costuming the

spk_0 incredible performances like we've talked about Emma Darcy so much the season has a standout and yeah

spk_0 overall I think ended in a weird place for me which I wasn't necessarily expected going into

spk_0 this season and especially after seeing those first four episodes I think I was sort of set up for

spk_0 a different roller coaster of emotions than what I wound up getting but overall I think it will

spk_0 age well on a rewatch especially once we can roll right into episode three or to episode three

spk_0 season three yeah in that sort of in that different format and so for that I I appreciate what was

spk_0 achieved with this season overall yeah I do think you know I was talking with Patrick Leppic about

spk_0 this on decoding TV one of the reasons the reaction I think has been so negative is because of the

spk_0 long wait that it's going to be to season three right yeah imagine if we knew that the next season was

spk_0 coming in six months right people would not be as upset right and I think that um I think I've

spk_0 also seen frustration came that they felt like season one was building up to some big event right

spk_0 mm and that a lot of people have said oh just wait for season two like it's gonna the big thing is

spk_0 gonna come and then season two has also felt like it is building up to some big event yeah right

spk_0 like I remember at the end of season one you said oh this is building up to this thing called the

spk_0 Dance of Dragons right yeah now what do you think that season two is part of the Dance of Dragons

spk_0 or has the Dance of Dragons not begun yet like in your in your estimation a rook's rest was definitely

spk_0 the beginning okay okay I see I see yeah like I think that that's when or Kristen cold did he even

spk_0 say in this episode like when the dragons dance men or ash under their feet or something like that

spk_0 like that verbiage was used but I did and again maybe naively given production budgets as the

spk_0 the world of TV right now I did expect more of those Dance of the Dragons events to be in season two

spk_0 yeah then their water and I think for showwatchers the sentiment I've seen from showwatchers is a lot of like

spk_0 oh I felt like season one was all this build up and then season two has also been a lot of build up

spk_0 now yet there are some high points in season two for sure like rook's rest yeah no doubt um

spk_0 but that's that's a lot of the frustration I'm hearing now I yeah on that related to that I just

spk_0 want to also take the time to maybe acknowledge that like there is weird spoiler culture around house

spk_0 of the dragon that did not exist with Game of Thrones that I find frustrating and or is probably

spk_0 impacting non book readers absorption of the story like people seem way too loose with just saying

spk_0 like things that are going to happen or alluding to things that are going to happen in a way that I

spk_0 don't think book readers did with Game of Thrones like we genuinely tried to let showwatchers just see

spk_0 the events as they unfolded and then we didn't say like like when season two of Game of Thrones ended

spk_0 people were still so cagey about the red wedding like they wouldn't even type out the words red

spk_0 wedding online ahead of time it was always abbreviated to our w so that anyone who was going into season

spk_0 three didn't know like oh my god there's some big book thing coming and it's been weird with

spk_0 fire and blood how Lucy Goosey some people seem to be online with like yes like explicitly saying

spk_0 like oh I thought this thing was definitely happening in season two and therefore like that's

spk_0 why it's bad and it's like well if we didn't have fire and blood or if we weren't so preoccupied

spk_0 with trying to guess exactly when they're going to like land certain plot points like what are

spk_0 expectations have been well well two things two things two things one uh people who do that are

spk_0 terrible yeah I hate that I hate that journey for people and I agree I agree that that has been the

spk_0 culture online and it sucks and if you do that kind of stuff shame on you because you know like

spk_0 you're you're getting your jolly's off of ruining other people's experience and that sucks

spk_0 so uh I feel like very just sad for anyone that does that um and if you do get spoiled by someone

spk_0 who does that just know it's not about you it's about them they're and what's going on within

spk_0 their lives uh okay and separately no Kim it's not just you it's it's like it's not just because you

spk_0 know what's coming as a show watcher only it still feels really odd like we're building up to this

spk_0 big thing yeah yeah yeah uh I think I think it is reasonable I think it is reasonable for people to

spk_0 be puzzled yeah like where season two yeah that said uh many great things about season two right

spk_0 episode four and episode seven were both really strong uh and again season two feels less like a

spk_0 whole season of television to me than season one did but I loved the pacing of season two much better

spk_0 it felt like hey we're actually giving these events time to breathe you know we're actually

spk_0 very little time is passing between episodes no time jumps or anything like that so like I

spk_0 I enjoyed those parts of season two quite a bit um and there's no one else doing it like

spk_0 uh how's the dragon you know like no one else doing it like game of thrones no one else is offering

spk_0 this level of spectacle and so on um but yeah it's uh it's it's been a weird one it's been a

spk_0 weird one this season I have to say uh the ending the reaction to it I I could not have predicted

spk_0 you know came uh I'm a complainer you know like uh on this podcast and I could not have predicted

spk_0 that the sentiment would be so low on this film just from online sentiment could be so

spk_0 much of this episode you know I think a little bit unfairly yes it was a little bit unsatisfying but

spk_0 like it's not not a bad episode you know it's not a terrible episode it's just like yeah the pacing

spk_0 we've already covered it you know but so uh it's kind of a thing where I was shocked at how negative

spk_0 the reaction was to to the opposite um but it remains to be seen whether it's all going to make

spk_0 sense in the end right like I think it's possible we'll get to the end and like you said we'll look

spk_0 back and this will just be a little bump in the road this will be like hey we'll we'll look back we

spk_0 like remember when people were complaining about the season two finale what a weird time that was

spk_0 because now seeing the complete whole work it all makes sense uh-huh so I wonder in relation to

spk_0 that and I'm sure this is a topic that you will discuss on decoding TV at some point like it

spk_0 reminds it makes me think of stranger things right now like the fact that like there has been

spk_0 this like insane amount of time passing to the season and granted like a whole pandemic happened

spk_0 the writer strike happened like the sag strikes like valid reasons for that delay but yeah like I

spk_0 feel similarly in that there's this thing happening with modern TV production where we get these

spk_0 really long waits between seasons of shows that really put a damper on the fandom and the excitement

spk_0 and like the conversation culture around them and I think that that's a shame and I would rather

spk_0 have fewer TV shows more frequently than what we currently have which is this like day-lose of TV

spk_0 some of which is great and we only get to talk about every like two to three years

spk_0 indeed indeed okay I think that's going to do it for us this season uh that is it thank you so

spk_0 much for listening a huge thanks to Jesse Earl and Kim Renford for joining us uh on a casking

spk_0 for this season at television check out decoding TV for year round coverage of what's happening in

spk_0 the world of television and if you've made it to the end we're closing with a little bonus uh this is

spk_0 a little uh audio clip so I sent Kim a little gift and I recorded her reaction to it so what you're

spk_0 going to hear is me sending her this gift uh I texted it to her and then she played it on her phone

spk_0 and then we we reacted to it a little bit afterwards so um enjoy this thanks for making it to the end of

spk_0 the episode thanks to Kim and Jesse again and uh we'll see you when we see you Kim you recently had a

spk_0 baby uh-huh and you also agreed to do a cast of King's podcast with me and you've really crushed it

spk_0 with the notes and with all your insights so I got you a little something to say thank you for all

spk_0 your work this year oh my god greetings Kim my name is Sidiou Ferell the first sort of bravo

spk_0 son Arya Stark's dancing master and I am here because a raven was sent to me all the way to bravo

spk_0 as you can see rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated do you Kim this raven was sent by David

spk_0 Chen from a cast of King's and this is simply to celebrate you I know that you are one of the

spk_0 biggest Game of Thrones fans in the world and you also worked with David on his podcast uh on A

spk_0 Podcast and uh he just wanted to let you know that you are awesome talented smart and he just

spk_0 wanted to thank you for all your hard work so uh I hope that makes me smile too so I'd have to

spk_0 listen to this uh podcast maybe send me a link or something on my social media um Kim be well sir

spk_0 well done for being an awesome person all this left is to remind you that there is only one god

spk_0 and his name is death and there is only one thing we say to the god of death not today today Kim

spk_0 David it's a pleasure to do this for you take care and be well oh thank you so much

spk_0 you're welcome uh thank you milto's uh what a lovely surprise yes you're the best I love that he

spk_0 was like converted to a listener during the campaign I gotta check this out yes he's like oh this

spk_0 sounds pretty cool I gotta check this out these two people are awesome we gotta we gotta go listen

spk_0 uh thank you this has been it's been so nice to be back for for season two and yeah thank you

spk_0 oh you're welcome my heart is very full

House of the Dragon Season 2 Post-Mortem (Feat. Your Questions/Comments)

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