Flight 152 - Stay Off Ladders

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 The views, comments, stories, and opinions shared within this podcast are our own,

spk_0 or those of our guests. And I know we represent the views of the companies,

spk_0 associations, or organizations that any of us may work for or represent.

spk_0 All stories, events, and tales shared within this episode may or may not have happened

spk_0 in the manner which they were told. They may or may not have even happened at all.

spk_0 The details have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty alike.

spk_0 This is Squawk Ident.

spk_0 You're listening to Squawk Ident, an aviation podcast that explores the many pathways

spk_0 to an aviation profession. The challenge is that a professional aviator can expect

spk_0 in today's marketplace and we share many stories along the way.

spk_0 I'm your host, aviatortoni, a professional airline pilot currently flying for a U.S.

spk_0 Legacy airline with over 20 years on the flight line. Welcome aboard flight 152 of the Squawk

spk_0 Ident. podcast recorded on the 3rd of September 2025 from the aviator sound studios from somewhere

spk_0 in Bounton Hills, Arizona. On today's flight, Rob, Roger, Terry, Alex, Kyle and I will discuss

spk_0 aeromedical losses, special issues, schedule differences between Part 121, 35, and 91,

spk_0 and we also discuss LTDs and other issues that can come up with a medical certificate.

spk_0 We catch up now that we have the band back together. So stick with us as we discuss all this and more

spk_0 on this the 150 second episode of the Squawk Ident podcast.

spk_0 Joining me today is an exceptional aviator and co-host.

spk_0 This is a professional CFI that will line the MI flight inspector.

spk_0 Former Embryer 145 airline pilot, King Air Inspector, Falcon 900eZ in 2000,

spk_0 Gulf Stream 650 commander, and currently, the operates of Gulf Stream 888.

spk_0 For a Fortune 500 company in the USA, he joins us after a mild month of flying,

spk_0 with two children home sick from school joining us from somewhere in San Diego, California.

spk_0 Please help me welcoming to the show Captain Roger.

spk_0 Roger, how you doing?

spk_0 I'm doing all right.

spk_0 I feel pretty good that I'm like the first one off the bench on the intro, so what's that say about

spk_0 the rescue, you guys? I don't know. Is this a seniority based thing? I'm talking to you.

spk_0 I'm talking to you. I don't know about this. I was like, wait, that's me.

spk_0 I need to be ready to talk here.

spk_0 Well, you know, the HR department sets all these things up and lately, there's been some emails

spk_0 going around about professionalism and complacency, and so they wanted me to make sure I highlighted

spk_0 you first. So it's odd. Everywhere I go, that happens. I don't know why. I think it's,

spk_0 it can't be me.

spk_0 Now, in grade school, you were usually the last one to be called on because your last name is

spk_0 kind of towards the end of the alphabet. So it's kind of weird. And I had the opposite effect.

spk_0 My last name was always kind of towards the front. So I was like, oh, damn it.

spk_0 Yeah, I was always at the very back all the way through that for sure.

spk_0 Yeah. Well, this is a seniority based industry, sir. So let's just keep it at that.

spk_0 How have you been? I've been all right. You know, like it's said, like you said,

spk_0 I had a very mild August. The reason for that was actually because I had been so busy before.

spk_0 I did just in June, in July, I did do a new type rating for the new airplane that we're actually

spk_0 getting imminently. And because we had our company had everyone going through for that,

spk_0 it just so it happened that when everyone else was in training, it was really busy. And so,

spk_0 you know, those of us that were left are picking up the slack, I guess, for lack of other terms.

spk_0 And then when we were in training, the flying dropped off a little bit. And so it was a little skewed

spk_0 in terms of days away from home and flight time. Like I didn't really necessarily mind,

spk_0 but they'd kind of said, you know what, you've done your time. We're going to give you a little

spk_0 bit of a break. So I only worked, I think, three days. They were all day trips, domestic. So

spk_0 that was actually kind of a little weird. I was home a lot. You know, a family wanted to know

spk_0 when I was leaving again. You know, these are the first world problems, my friend. First world

spk_0 problems. Yeah. When are you going back to work? Not. You have five jobs. When are you coming up?

spk_0 I'm working next week. Well, how long do you make on? Oh, it's just one day. I'll be home.

spk_0 I'll be home by the time you go to bed. And then actually Friday this week is my first multi-day trip.

spk_0 So I got a week long trip over to Europe on Friday. But that's the first time I'll be leaving

spk_0 that I'll be leaving on a multi-day trip in over a month. Yeah. Which is extremely odd.

spk_0 Now it's exciting because you and I have been going back and forth a little bit about,

spk_0 you know, what the company's been doing. Your company's been doing to prepare for this new

spk_0 Gulf Stream 8. And how there's only one simulator in the US currently up and running for that is

spk_0 the latest and greatest Gulf Stream aircraft. The technology on there I can only assume is

spk_0 leaps and bounds above what we do here on the airline side of things. What can you tell me about

spk_0 the new airplane? Is there anything that really stands out as a wow factor?

spk_0 I mean, there's a couple things, I guess. One thing that's kind of interesting and then I'll give you

spk_0 the, I guess the wow factor. It's almost all touch screen. You know, the technology, yes, it

spk_0 sleeps on bounds ahead of what you guys are primarily using. The technology's not really new, though.

spk_0 I mean, anytime you have technology on an airplane in order to get it certified, by the time they put

spk_0 the technology in an airplane and get it certified, the technology's two decades, two decades

spk_0 old already. But it is a little bit different with the touch screen. And so that was a majority of the

spk_0 for us. A majority of the training, the plane is almost the same as the 650. It's just the avionics

spk_0 package that was different. So that's kind of cool. The checklist is kind of automatic. You guys

spk_0 actually in the airbus have that to to some degree as well. But the the wow factor is and that

spk_0 will be kind of a, I won't say it's a game changer, but it's going to definitely enhance

spk_0 our flexibility and capabilities is that our airplanes are based out of an airport to say 5,000

spk_0 foot strip. And despite only having 5,000 feet this plane can still take off in less than 5,000 feet

spk_0 and make it to Western Europe on stop. Wow. Which I didn't actually believe. As I believe that when

spk_0 I see it and then sure enough, I got the numbers and I ran them. London is no problem. And Paris,

spk_0 this is Paris is actually will usually be doable. Depending on the winds and summer, if they're not

spk_0 amazing, that even on on our 4,900 foot strip, we're going to do Western Europe nonstop.

spk_0 That's almost unheard of in my opinion. It's funny to hear you say that because we might be able to

spk_0 to get to it here in the future. I'm trying to pull it up now. But you know, the airliners, when

spk_0 they're doing these trans cons and they have to have an alternate, there's something that's called

spk_0 weight restricted. And a lot of times we are weight restricted, especially when we have multiple

spk_0 destination alternates. And you know, you take off at 200,000 pounds in an Airbus A321,

spk_0 an X model or Neo. And you know, you have the power. Sometimes you're doing what's called a

spk_0 max improve flaps three APU running the packs kind of thing engine bleeds off so that the the core

spk_0 of the engine that thrust that that's coming out of the engine is at maximum capacity. Sometimes

spk_0 you take it off and you're and you're just barely climbing out and you're like, wow, this is like

spk_0 flying Osses the 172 today and not to mention if it's hot. So now you have, I mean, jet engines

spk_0 aren't really affected too much about the heat. But when you're dealing with 113 degree temperatures,

spk_0 as we saw here months ago, I think we set a record last month at 118 degrees that we registered

spk_0 Phoenix Sky Harbor. So with a corporate operation or a Gulfstream eight or even a smaller jet aircraft,

spk_0 you only have so many people on board. You're not really dealing with a bunch of cargo. Really,

spk_0 it's the fuel that's the limiting factor, right? So you're if you have a transatlantic destination,

spk_0 it's how much fuel can you carry. And I think the fuel to aircraft size ratio is pretty impressive.

spk_0 Compared to the airlines where we're carrying an abundant amount of fuel,

spk_0 it's a pretty impressive ratio. Your guys are on Gulfstream, for example, to eight. You guys carry a

spk_0 lot of fuel. What's the max fuel that they can carry? We do carry a lot of gas. We can carry about

spk_0 48,000 pounds of fuel. So equivalent to 48,000. That's equivalent to an Airbus A321 in X.

spk_0 So I couldn't tell you what the what the Airbus numbers are. Obviously,

spk_0 but yeah, it's it's a lot of gas.

spk_0 You know, 800 go, they say if you wanted to pull a back 80, I think it's 8500 nautical miles,

spk_0 they're they are specifically made to stay in the air a really long time. And that takes a lot of

spk_0 fuel. I think that you and you and I were talking about it in terms of fuel burn on the air,

spk_0 some of the Airbus family. When we burn almost as much fuel as the Airbus,

spk_0 depending on you guys have, you know, 20 different engines, but

spk_0 and very independent on the 19 to 20 to 21 and the XLRs and all that fun stuff. But I mean,

spk_0 we those things burn a lot of gas. We carry a lot of gas. You know, our our BOW somewhere around

spk_0 155,000 pounds are are fuel loads 48,000 pounds. And so yeah, it's it's definitely fuel. Not so much

spk_0 the passengers, not so much the baggage. Just how much gas can you get on there? Yeah, just pulling

spk_0 it up. I just did a flight to Anchorage the other day. And that was 48,000 pounds of gas for

spk_0 a 2,666 nautical miles. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a lot of that's a lot of juice guys carrying around.

spk_0 And you're burning it because you're flying it 45,000 feet, whatever it is. But speaking of it,

spk_0 we just heard from Rob. Let's introduce Rob joining us today is super baby intern squawked in

spk_0 podcast GoHose. He is a former international professional racquetball champion. Remember the 9G club

spk_0 at AMP and avionics tech and RC aircraft commander, both skipper commercial drone operator and

spk_0 currently nervous captain for legacy airlines. The name we use here on the shows and alias to our

spk_0 employer, a US mainline carrier joining us from his home studio in the lone starter state of Dallas,

spk_0 Texas. Help us in welcoming our very own captain Rob the Rob. Hey, I'm good. It's good to be back.

spk_0 It's been quite a while since I've sat down and shadowed with you fine fellas. So meager to get

spk_0 going. Yeah. And you you've been pretty busy. You had some things come up lately that we're

spk_0 going to talk about here later in the show that yeah. And you know, you and I have been going

spk_0 back and forth talking about your experience with that. I found it very interesting and alarming.

spk_0 By the way, I did go and get my vision test just last week. And I had the I had the the op the

spk_0 scan done and everything's looking good. So good. But it's scared me. You know what you went through.

spk_0 Yeah. As a little teaser to our listeners here to all five of them. You know, Rob,

spk_0 Rob kind of went through some things and happy that he's willing to share that with us all. So

spk_0 maybe it'll help somebody out there listening to the podverse that maybe they can

spk_0 know what can't I can't believe I just said that as terrible. Maybe it'll help them somebody out

spk_0 on the flight line. Prevent some something more serious that could have been prevented if it was caught

spk_0 a little earlier and could have been way more serious if it wasn't caught at all. So yeah, that's

spk_0 the key. Yeah. So so Rob, what what have you been up to other than what we're going to talk about

spk_0 later? Well, personally, just been you know, it was happy to be back to work. That's the number one

spk_0 thing. Kids are off to college again. Got a sophomore in a junior in college right now. So

spk_0 um, thankfully with my little medical scare, um, created a lot of times to be able to help my kids

spk_0 get, uh, you know, comfortably off to college with no time restrictions on work or anything like

spk_0 that. So that was kind of nice. So we're empty nesters again. So that's a that's always a fun time

spk_0 of year for us, but um, we keep really busy with our schedules, um, me and my wife and we still go

spk_0 and travel and see the kids as they play, uh, numerous volleyball tournaments around the around the

spk_0 area. So yeah, um, that's kind of kind of on our, uh, on a radar right now for the next couple

spk_0 months. We've got a couple, a couple tournaments coming up starting this next weekend. So

spk_0 uh, that's kind of been the immediate thing. Um, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, we'll talk about the,

spk_0 the medical condition I had whenever we're ready to do that. You know, and I, and I, I realized that

spk_0 I should probably add a couple more things to your intro because we always talk about how you were

spk_0 a professional racquetball champion and, you know, your daughters are very athletic. They're in the

spk_0 club volleyball and now the collegiate volleyball. But yeah, your whole family is pickleball fanatics.

spk_0 Yeah, we love pickleball. You're all pickleball. So like, have you won anything? Have you,

spk_0 has like, what's the? So not really. I haven't played any tournaments in like 10 years.

spk_0 Just our schedules are so, you know, how they are. I'm really junior. So I can't get the time off,

spk_0 um, for the weekends because usually that's when I go to work. Um, and, you know,

spk_0 I've played professional racquetball tournaments for 30 plus years. And, um, I really enjoyed doing

spk_0 that, but, you know, now I just like playing for fun. I have that little, I don't know if it's a

spk_0 good or bad thing, but that, that, that, that, you know, internal drive that if I'm going to be

spk_0 competitive, I got to be able to do it, you know, give it everything. And that includes on the

spk_0 backside of the court, you know, where you're training and eating right and, you know,

spk_0 do getting, you know, playing it, practicing and all that. So if I can't do that, then I might as

spk_0 well just have fun, you know, playing. So if I screw, screw up, which I do quite a bit, you know,

spk_0 it's not such a big deal because, well, hey, I'm just a recreational player, you know. Yeah. So,

spk_0 yeah, but yeah, I just, it's, there's so many people that play the sport as you guys probably

spk_0 heard. And it's so much fun, very, very social. Yeah. So I just love playing. I mean, we, we have

spk_0 numerous courts in our area here. We have some indoor outdoor courts. So bad weather,

spk_0 inclement weather, or just don't want to be outside. We go inside and play and it's a lot of fun.

spk_0 It's a lot of fun. So, you know, that, it's interesting. And the reason I mentioned is because I live now

spk_0 just a block away from a boys and girls club and it's a joint with a big public recreational park.

spk_0 And they have almost every court you can imagine. They have concrete table tennis.

spk_0 Yeah. Set up. So all you got to do is bring your paddles and ball and a little net that you can

spk_0 stretch across. And then they have, yeah, they have pickle ball courts, illuminating. And most

spk_0 because it's the weather here, it's the play at night early in the morning or late at night,

spk_0 they're playing. And there's just no room on the court. There's all kinds of people all ages.

spk_0 Yeah. They're tennis courts, but they're usually pretty empty. Sorry, Roger. Yeah. I guess people are

spk_0 how it is. And I'm not, it's not cool to play tennis anymore. You know, they have basketball courts

spk_0 and everything. And it's the same thing. You know, there's a couple of people throwing some,

spk_0 throwing the ball around, shooting some hoops, but that's about it. But yeah, so I bought some

spk_0 paddles for my wife and I, some nice ones. And so I need lessons because there's so many rules.

spk_0 Like, what's the refrigerator? What's this? What is this? Well, I'm going to try to trade into a good

spk_0 feet, Phoenix overnight, long overnight. And once I find one, I'll try to hook up with you and

spk_0 we'll go out there and we'll have to do it, you know, regardless of the day or night because, you

spk_0 know, I just got to get it in whenever you can. But right, if it's in the middle of the day, we're

spk_0 just going to have to hydrate and do, you know, that's better time to go. It's always on the court

spk_0 in the middle of the day. Right. Yeah. Like give it a month to be fine. Yeah, that's a good time to

spk_0 just get your feet wet in the game. But you definitely want to just start planning with people

spk_0 because then that's when you get plugged into the little, you know, pickleball communities that

spk_0 they have and you kind of see where you match up and figure out your way with, you know,

spk_0 finding a little click of people to, you know, become a regular with because that's that's where it's

spk_0 at. Yeah. I see. Like now, two legacy air pilots collapse due to heat exhaustion playing pickleball

spk_0 Phoenix. At least it wasn't on a layover. Well, it would have been for Rob. Yeah. Hey, just stay

spk_0 off the ladders. That's that's the main thing. That's why pilots stay off ladders higher somebody to

spk_0 go. Yeah. Well, speaking of Alex, thanks for joining in here. Joining us today is an outstanding

spk_0 aviator and squawk at Incoho. He's a former US Navy Reserve chief information assistant technician

spk_0 that has certified flight instructor in November 175, captain for San Piper Regional, the alias

spk_0 to one of legacy airlines is wholly owned regional airlines joining us where he is stuck

spk_0 in a thick of sleepless nights, dirty diapers and adorably cute babies. Yeah, the photos keep him

spk_0 coming. I love him. From his home studio somewhere in Lubbock, Texas, please help me in welcoming

spk_0 to the show captain Alex D Alex. Actually, it's been it's been a blessing. She just turned a month

spk_0 yesterday and it's been it's been an incredible ride so far. Super easy baby, fuzziness isn't really

spk_0 that bad, dirty diaper gloves, not there yet. Like we're doing good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, enjoy it while you

spk_0 can. There's going to be quite some reading. I'm going to suggest to you over the years how to deal

spk_0 with strong willed children. I have a feeling if she's anything like you and your lady then yeah,

spk_0 she's going to be a handful and which is absolutely like you said, a blessing and congratulations.

spk_0 So we were very happy for you. Keep the keep the photos coming because they grow so fast and it's

spk_0 in the blink of an eye and and you're fortunate that you're actually home that your company, your

spk_0 airline, allows you to have the paternity leave. You know, it's unpaid. I use vacation for

spk_0 about the September and so you're paid. Well, for the month of September. Okay. Well, how many

spk_0 months do you need to fix it? Sorry. I'm taking two months off. So August was paid September is on

spk_0 paid. September's on paid. So it's your choice to stay for another month by using some to believe,

spk_0 right? Yeah. And I'm going to go back at the beginning of October, which actually I need to email

spk_0 the CPO office. Yeah. And Rachel, is she going to stay out for how long? She's going to stay out

spk_0 for as long as she can. Yeah. She wants to be home and you know, be here and you know, try to work

spk_0 part-time if you can. But she's, she's definitely going to soak up the time being home and try to

spk_0 try to milk it for a year. Well, she's recovered then she's back fully. Okay. Well, now's the time to

spk_0 have another. So get to it. Get cracking. Alex's eyes get real big. What? Well, good. Well, we're

spk_0 sweating for a Terry Terry had some technical issues with his PC based computer system. We're

spk_0 giving him some some crap for that because he's a he's a gamer. And but hopefully he'll join us

spk_0 here. But you know what? Let's get started when he joins us. We'll interrupt this broadcast.

spk_0 You know, it's been it's been a interesting month and a half since our last show. A lot has been

spk_0 going on with all of us. And with the schedules out there, there's been kind of light in the news

spk_0 in terms of airlines. There's a lot of little minor things that have been hidden. But you know,

spk_0 the world is going through a lot of other newsworthy events that has kind of kept the aviation

spk_0 industry out of the limelight, which is good. I just had a conversation with my first officer who

spk_0 actually my last F.O. on this last trip is also from Lubbock area. And he said he didn't know

spk_0 you Alex, but you'll probably see him commuting to Dallas. I think he goes through Dallas to

spk_0 the Phoenix. But the the aviation industry, there's been a few things going on. Spirit airlines

spk_0 is having a hard time with their bankruptcy reorganization. And there's been a few incidents

spk_0 that have happened that have been pretty minor. Oh, I love it. And but we might be able to get to

spk_0 those here in a minute right after we catch up with some of the the other topics that haven't

spk_0 going on with us personally. I personally have been dealing with trying to get a house settled

spk_0 and the other day my wife goes, Hey, I got a surprise for you. We got to get up early. And I'm like,

spk_0 okay, surprise. She's like, Yeah, yeah, just we're going to put on your workout gear. We're

spk_0 going to have that figure. We're going to go for a morning run. Maybe she signed us up for like a

spk_0 5k or something. She wanted it to be a surprise. And she takes me into the industrial area of town.

spk_0 And I'm like, and I start and put two and two together. I'm like industrial area of town.

spk_0 Not much going on down here. Did you sign us up for CrossFit?

spk_0 Yes, she did. So I spent a week in a pool of tears, sweat and blood. CrossFit is not for the

spk_0 week at heart. Now, I was a gym rat for quite some time. For many years, I've decided to kind of

spk_0 get a little healthier and lift heavy weights. And I had a gym partner who was absolutely adamantly

spk_0 against CrossFit. Those guys, they're always injured because they're doing unnatural movements.

spk_0 And it's all gimmick and culty and all this. I've heard every negative CrossFit

spk_0 disparaging comment about it. So when she said, I signed us up for CrossFit. I went,

spk_0 okay, you know what? I'll try it. I'm not going to knock it until I try it. If I try it and then

spk_0 okay, I was there for a week. And you know what? I got to give props to those Crossfiters, man.

spk_0 They are absolutely not easy. It's just basically military style, physical training,

spk_0 and Olympic deadlifts, Olympic, you know, snap lifts and kinds of stuff. So, you know,

spk_0 we're there at the first seven days. It's the trial. And man, I can't believe how intense that

spk_0 workout is. And you have basically a personal trainer. Now, this is not, they don't believe in the

spk_0 whole yelling in your face. Come on, lift out. Now, no, they don't, that's faux pas in CrossFit.

spk_0 And CrossFit, it's more positive. Yeah, you can do it. Come on.

spk_0 So it was a nice, it was a nice experience. And yes, I believe we are now committed for at least

spk_0 six to eight months of Crossfitting in the morning. Their classes start one at the first

spk_0 ones at 5.30 in the morning and the second ones at 6.30 because it's just as too hot in the afternoon,

spk_0 at least at this time of year. So, and then they have two more classes in the evening. So I'll be

spk_0 doing that for the foreseeable future. I'll keep you all updated on how this pilot reacts to

spk_0 doing that kind of physical activity. But I tell you what, I was complaining a lot that I just felt

spk_0 like I didn't have my mobility. I didn't have like stretching and stuff was difficult. And I was

spk_0 like, I can't even touch my toes. I can't even bend over and touch my toes. Because we're sitting

spk_0 all day as a pilot, whether you're airline corporate, no matter what you are, you think that it's not

spk_0 like an office job. You think that it's like a, you're walking around the airports and you go for

spk_0 a run on the layovers and that can't, that's all true. But do the math on how many hours a day and

spk_0 their airline pilot sits, right? And by the tenants, they're up and about. They're walking, they're

spk_0 pushing carts, you know, they're pushing that at 150 pound cart uphill because you know, we're climbing

spk_0 out. They get a little bit of a workout. But pilots, we're sitting there and then we all notice,

spk_0 especially after 50. I'm not going to name names, but after 50, you start to see a little bit of

spk_0 belly and you're like, where did this come from? My eating and I'm still working. I'm still running.

spk_0 And it's because we're sitting in what happens is your glutes don't get us, they lose their muscle

spk_0 mass plus you lose muscle mass after you age of after 40. You start losing that. And you can take

spk_0 supplements and things, but it's just not the same. And your, I guess the front of your, the front

spk_0 of your hips, your hip, your hip tendons and ligaments and all that stuff, they're not used to being

spk_0 stretched out. So your pelvis actually shifts forward. And by doing so, you start to get a little

spk_0 bit of a gut because you're not standing up straight. And even when you're standing up, your

spk_0 pelvis is forward and your diaphragm starts to feel a little bit difficult to tire shoes, you're

spk_0 running out of breath. You know, if you feel this, I don't, I feel it. I mean, we're all there.

spk_0 And now after 50, I just, I have to try different things. I have to do something. So here's

spk_0 surprise. You're in CrossFit. So I'll give you guys regular reports on how that's going.

spk_0 If it's a good choice, in my opinion, for pilots to do something like that, I think as long as you

spk_0 keep moving your golden, the minute you stop moving and you just show up to your job,

spk_0 look your roll of board around, you know, things start to go downhill and you don't want to lose

spk_0 a medical because let's face it, you can be the best pilot in the world. And there are going to

spk_0 be factors with your health, with your environment, with your career that may put a wrench in the system.

spk_0 And this hit poem pretty, you know, pretty hard when I got a phone call the other day, Rob said,

spk_0 I, yeah, guys, I lost my medical. I went, oh, what happened, Rob?

spk_0 Tell it, walk us through it. Like, was it, you were feeling great? Everything's down. And how did

spk_0 you, how did this all transpire? Yeah, this, this kind of came out of left field for me.

spk_0 So since I could ever remember, I've always needed to work classes. It's been what, high school,

spk_0 middle school. So I go in for, I mean, I'm used to going in for routine eye exams to, you know,

spk_0 have the health of my eyes checked out and get new prescriptions for, you know, eventually get new

spk_0 lenses on whatever glasses that I had. So this was the case back in July. I had a,

spk_0 routine eye exam. And, you know, they always ask sometimes, you know, at least my doctors,

spk_0 a little bit of, is that, okay, you want to get your eyes dilated today? I'm like, no, I'm good. Let's

spk_0 after the optimal map test, I'm setting the, the chair and the doctor comes in and the doctor's a

spk_0 female. And she goes, Hey, Rob, do you, do you ever see any floaters or any, uh, fashers or

spk_0 anything like that? I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? I said, because in my world,

spk_0 the floaters, when you like, try to flare and land the airplane and you don't touch down and you end

spk_0 up going halfway down to runway. And then a flashers when the flight attendants really, really happy

spk_0 and she shows you her, you know, hoo ha ha. So after the ending of coming to talk to you. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah,

spk_0 that was it. So, right, yeah, I'm never happy that that was just something to make it funny.

spk_0 But so, so I told her, no, I've never seen anything like that. I don't even know what that is.

spk_0 And so she's like, yeah, um, looks like you have a couple of very small holes in your retina.

spk_0 And, um, and that's in both eyes. And then, and, and your left eye actually have a tear.

spk_0 And I'm like, okay, she's like, well, that's not good because that could eventually lead to a

spk_0 retinal detachment. And which leads to partial or total blindness in that eyeball.

spk_0 And so I was like, whoa, well, that's not good. And she's like, yeah, she's like, unfortunately,

spk_0 this is a disqualifying medical condition for pilots. And then that's when, you know, I kind of had

spk_0 you know, small panic attack in the Optometrist office and I'm like, what?

spk_0 Yeah. So she recommended I go see a retinal specialist and to have a second opinion and,

spk_0 you know, an actual specialist look at my eyeballs. And, um, she said that, uh, you know,

spk_0 that I do not go shouldn't work because if I did and something happened while you were flying,

spk_0 then, you know, that that would be a bad situation. So, you know, obviously I agreed with her,

spk_0 but I was, you know, immediately had a panic attack. I was like, oh, man, you know,

spk_0 our whole career is predicated on the health of our bodies. And up into this point, you know,

spk_0 I mean, even now I still have it 2015 vision, obviously corrected. So, you know, that was,

spk_0 that was a little bit of a shocker for me. So immediately, when I left the doctor's office,

spk_0 I called our union rep, medical reps and I talked to them. And, um, the medical rep from our union

spk_0 recommended I go see this particular retina specialist, which just so happened to be the same

spk_0 exact specialist that my Optometrist recommended. So, felt pretty good that, you know, that seems to

spk_0 be the person to go see the doctor to go see the, so made an appointment with that doctor. And,

spk_0 uh, sat in his chair and sure enough, same thing. Yep, you got a couple of holes in your left eye,

spk_0 a couple of holes in your right eye. He's like, they're really tiny. Um, and you do have a small

spk_0 tear in the left eye. And all of this can be treated with a laser surgery. And I was like, okay,

spk_0 cool. You know, what's the recovery time from that? And he's like, it's actually pretty quick. I

spk_0 and everything. Um, you'll be pretty much able to do, um, your normal things of the next day.

spk_0 Um, but we're going to have to have for as far as going back to work, you'll have a recovery

spk_0 time of anywhere from two weeks to a month. And I was like, wow, okay. So I'm, I'm like, okay,

spk_0 let's get on the schedule and, uh, let's do it. So, um, the following week sat down, so they did,

spk_0 one, one eye one day and then another eye a few days later. So we decided to do the, uh,

spk_0 the eye with the most, they needed the most work, which was my left eye. Uh, we did that eye first.

spk_0 And it's, it's kind of a, if you, though, might be going to the details, but it's kind of a,

spk_0 another, uh, workup of like anxiety because, you know, you get your eyeballs dilated so that they

spk_0 look into your eyes and everything like that. And then they put some numbing cream, um, in your eyeball.

spk_0 It's like, it's, it's, it's really an eyedrop, but it's like a cream. It's a little thicker than a,

spk_0 a liquid. Anyways, they put that in your eye and your eye really goes numb, uh, and they just did it

spk_0 on the left eye because that's the one that was going to be operated on. And, uh, so you can just

spk_0 over, you know, 20, the next 20, 30 minutes, you can just feel your eyeball get really, really

spk_0 like lazy, you know, like you're, you're, you're, you're just, you can see because, uh, you can see,

spk_0 but everything's foggy because your eyes are dilated. But you know, like you, you just, you can feel

spk_0 your eyeball. You know, it's there, but you don't feel anything like if you had an eye lash in your eye,

spk_0 you wouldn't even know it's there. That kind of thing, you know, I feel that way after a night of

spk_0 drinking room too. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, so then he, he calls you into his operating room, which

spk_0 is literally just another, uh, you know, small room with that little machine with like a, uh,

spk_0 kind of like a frame, you just sit your chin and your forehead in and, um, he takes out this little

spk_0 lens that looks kind of looks like a little, uh, 35, or not even a 35 millimeter. Let's say a

spk_0 little tiny camera lens that you would detach and put it on a small camera. And so on one side of it

spk_0 is the, is the, uh, viewpoint for him to look into your eyeball. And then on the other side of that

spk_0 lens is like a little contact lens that he literally just sticks right onto your eyeball.

spk_0 So your eyeball is numb. So you don't, you feel the pressure, but you don't feel the contact lens

spk_0 or the apparatus physically touching your eyeball. So he puts that thing right on your eyeball,

spk_0 and you lean into the machine. And he's like, okay, look at my left ear. And, uh, you kind of look

spk_0 over there. And, you know, he kind of wiggles the thing around a little bit. And he's like, okay,

spk_0 first of all, you know, you're going to have the urge to blink and say, go ahead and just blink

spk_0 freely. This little contact lens thing is can prevent your eyelid from shutting. So it's no big deal

spk_0 there. He's like, the big thing is, is you're going to have this natural tendency to pull back

spk_0 whenever, whenever the laser hits a nerve. He's like, you're going to, you're going to see the laser,

spk_0 you're going to hear the laser, but you won't feel the laser until it hits a nerve. And when it hits

spk_0 the nerve, that's when you'll go, that's when you'll have the, you know, the jerk knee jerk reaction,

spk_0 he's like, now, as far as the comfort level, you're probably going to start off at the comfort

spk_0 level of like three or four, you know, 10 B in the worst, but three or four because naturally,

spk_0 you have something in your eyeball and it's numb and you're in an operating room and everything

spk_0 like that. He's like, but you're going to kind of, you'll start to relax once you see how it feels

spk_0 and everything like that. But as far as like pain, you're really going to be at a zero because you're

spk_0 not going to feel anything until I hit the nerve, when I hit the nerve, it's going to go from zero

spk_0 and it's going to spike up to about an eight. And then as quickly as it spikes, it's going to go

spk_0 back down to a zero. And so that's when you're going to like pull back and he's like, you got it,

spk_0 try to resist the urge to do that. He said that if you can't, you know, withstand that, you know,

spk_0 instant spike in pain, then we'll have to do, you know, further up your your your eye numbingness

spk_0 by sticking a needle in your eyeball and numbing it even further with that and that that creates a

spk_0 whole other world of problems with, you know, recovery time being extended and stuff like that.

spk_0 So I'm like determined, okay, no needles, you know, let's just get by with this. And so

spk_0 he and then so the other funny thing is like you ever read, you know, see like a laser pointer for,

spk_0 you know, presentations and stuff like that and you lead to read the little disclaimer on there

spk_0 that says, yeah, hey, you know, do not stare into the laser. Well, that's exactly what you're looking at

spk_0 when you go into this chair. So you you sit there and you put your chin in the in the in the brace

spk_0 there and the forehead up against the brace and he's got his lens in there and he's got his little

spk_0 computer on the side so you can see exactly the section of of the retina that he needs to laser.

spk_0 And when he's lasering your retina, all he's really doing for lack of a better term is he's

spk_0 tacking your retina back to the eye wall. Okay, it's like a welder. Just like a just like a welder

spk_0 with you. So he's just trying to, you know, basically spot weld around the hole so that that hole

spk_0 doesn't separate from the retina. So, you know, one hole probably, I don't know, I'm guessing,

spk_0 but one hole probably has, you know, six or seven little tags around it. And the tear probably has

spk_0 a little more because of the length, depending on the size of it. So sitting in the in the chair

spk_0 and laser starts going and you hear this and you see this super, super, bright green laser go

spk_0 into your eyeball. And at first, I was just like, whoa, this is crazy because when that thing lights

spk_0 up your eyeball, it felt like I could see all the veins in the back of my eye. I mean, it was like

spk_0 a trip at first. I was just like, holy moly, that's crazy. Until he hit the nerve. Oh,

spk_0 that he hit the nerve. But I was just like, there it is. So the pain felt like a really,

spk_0 really strong headache, like a migraine is headache. Yeah. So that's what the pain felt like,

spk_0 but like I said, and like he said, it spikes. So it's like zero, zero, zero, bang. There it is. And

spk_0 it's gone. So you're just kind of like, you know, then you're like, okay, that's what it feels like,

spk_0 all right, you're good, you're good, you're good. Then he hits it again. Oh, shoot. There it is again.

spk_0 And then a couple of times he's like you, you, you, you, and you're like, ah, ah, ah. So,

spk_0 so he hits it a few times. And but the cool thing was that the, the longest, the, the left eye,

spk_0 which is required the most work only took about three minutes to do it. Oh, wow. So from the time I

spk_0 sat in the chair and he started the laser and to the time he was done, it was three minutes.

spk_0 So I was really relieved that that's, you know, how long it took. Yeah. And so, yeah. Next thing,

spk_0 you know, he pulls off the lens, you know, it's like, you know, comes off your eyeball and you're like,

spk_0 whoa, I can't see. I actually, I could see, but all the colors are all jacked up because you've

spk_0 been staring at a super high intensity bright green laser. And he's like, yeah, you'll get your

spk_0 vision back here in about five minutes. And you'll just be walking out of here with fuzzy eyes

spk_0 because of dilation. And I'm like, oh, darn it. I don't get a patch or anything like that. I can't

spk_0 be a pirate for a day or anything. He's like, no, you're good, man. Unless you want one, I'm like,

spk_0 no, I'm good. No, I want to take it. That's awesome. Hey, that'll be a pirate. That's it. So,

spk_0 anyway, yeah, literally walked out of there at like two o'clock in the afternoon. And by like

spk_0 five or six o'clock in the evening after a short nap, five or six o'clock in the evening, I woke up and

spk_0 yeah, still a little blurry because of the dilation. Sure. But yeah, I was seeing just

spk_0 this is just the same as it was I was when I walked in the door. Yeah. The following week went in

spk_0 and did the right eye. Yeah. And that that only took about a minute. He was in there. He was like,

spk_0 that that that that for about a minute's worth of work. Hit the, hit the nerve once or twice.

spk_0 No big deal. And then all right, you're good. You're done. So two weeks later went in for follow-up.

spk_0 And he checked the health of my eye and he's like, yep, looks good. Everything's great. The

spk_0 the laser attacks are holding. I'm going to sign you off with no restrictions. You're free to go

spk_0 back to work. Nice. Okay. And then so that's, you know, the optometrist signs you off. Great.

spk_0 What hoops did you have to jump through with the FAA? So the the hoops you have to jump through

spk_0 is literally a paperwork hoop. So the doctor has to submit all of well, when I say submit, he has

spk_0 to document all of the findings of the pre-workup, the actual surgery and then the follow-up. And then

spk_0 there's all these like, you know, medical terms that they have to use. And then all these values

spk_0 they have to put in with thickness of the red wall of the size of the the tears. And then

spk_0 not only that, you have to supply and you have to retreat from the offices. All of the,

spk_0 they call it the office notes. So normally from a from a patient point of view, you know, we kind of

spk_0 get the we get we get like a summary of the office notes from a patient point of view. But for

spk_0 the FAA, they need the actual doctors notes. So you have to actually have them go do like the,

spk_0 you know, second level of internal office notes kind of thing. So you have to submit that.

spk_0 And the fun, the great thing was is that this doctor's office works with a lot of aviators to begin

spk_0 with. So the the administrative people knew exactly what they needed. And they when I hand it up,

spk_0 there's actually an FAA form. I think it's called it's an 8500. The FAA form 8500. As soon as I

spk_0 showed them that form, they knew exactly what to do with it. Exactly. What information needed to

spk_0 be provided and everything. Yeah, it wasn't our first rodeo. Exactly. So the cool thing was,

spk_0 is once I had in that literally that took to gather all that information literally took five minutes.

spk_0 So once I got all that information, the second hurdle I had to clear

spk_0 besides from the surgery was to follow up eye exams. And now you have to get another eye exam

spk_0 to make sure that hey, you still have vision in your eyeballs and you know,

spk_0 what's 2020. Sure. And then also the field of vision view. So that's part of the require. And so the

spk_0 we're gaining your medical back. So I had to go into there and do a you know, the little

spk_0 see the little squiggly dots around your field of vision, stare at the center and then

spk_0 you know, hit the little Atari clicker whenever whenever you see the little squiggly line. And

spk_0 that was honestly that was actually became the next the next kind of anxiety.

spk_0 The point of the whole process because I wasn't sure with the laser, you know, if that would actually

spk_0 you know, kind of lower my field of vision. And so I was like, man, this is this can be an issue.

spk_0 And during the actual exam, the computer for the machine actually suffered an internal fault.

spk_0 Oh, so while we were actually in the middle of the eye exam, the machines like, you know,

spk_0 you know, and then it's like it had some kind of like an oral message come up. Hey, you know, lateral

spk_0 eye or lateral sensory fault, you know, I was like, oh shoot, did I just fail this thing? You know,

spk_0 so she's like, oh no, we got to do it again, but you know, kind of sucks because now you have to

spk_0 stare into that thing for another, you know, five more minutes. And that becomes actually pretty

spk_0 fatiguing. Yeah, you're just trying to focus on that that all that stuff. Yeah. So anyway,

spk_0 try to make this long story as detailed and short as possible. Pass the field of vision test,

spk_0 that optometrist actually had to give another, you know, doctors, comments and everything about

spk_0 everything that she saw. And then so once I got all that taken care of and all the documentation,

spk_0 I scanned it all into the computer, sent it off to our union's medical department for review.

spk_0 And so this is the part of getting the medical back. So our union's medical advisors took a look

spk_0 at making sure all the eyes were dotted, teased across. And then they forwarded all that information

spk_0 over to my AME, where I went ahead and made an appointment with the AME, went in at the appointment

spk_0 time and the exam for the AME was a standard AME exam, just like I've done every single time.

spk_0 When I sat down with the AME to discuss the procedure that I had done, you know, he asked me,

spk_0 so, you know, hey, what happened and all that. So I explained pretty much everything that we just

spk_0 heard about. And he's like, okay, yep, I'll have to send this in. And,

spk_0 Oklahoma City, we submitted it all electronically. And he's like, fortunately, eyeball stuff is pretty

spk_0 quick, especially for stuff like this. I should hear from him this evening. And I'm like, what?

spk_0 This evening. And he's like, yeah, this stuff is, you know, all this stuff gets handled electronically

spk_0 now. So it's pretty quick. So I should know this evening. But since we're going to, it'll probably be

spk_0 after hours, I probably won't be able to get to it till tomorrow sometime in the mid-morning

spk_0 afternoon. And you should have your medical in hand by the next day. And I was like, is this

spk_0 all considered a special issuance? He's like, it is. It is. So you'll actually get your medical.

spk_0 If it's approved, you'll get your medical in hand. So you can continue to go back to work and

spk_0 do all that fun stuff. And then later on, and you're going to get a letter in the F from the FAA

spk_0 describing the actual limitations or the requirements for, you know, for a follow on medicals,

spk_0 which is probably going to be just another eye exam here in the next year or so, or before your

spk_0 next medical to see if there's any changes to my eyeball's health or stabilize and anything like

spk_0 that. So sure. Now you're explaining this special issuance. And I had questions about it before.

spk_0 And you were able to explain it to me. And let me just kind of recap that. So if you have a

spk_0 regular medical, you get a first-class medical for part 121 operator. Now after six months over the

spk_0 age of, I think what is it, 40 something? Yeah, after 40. After 40. It gets downgraded from a first

spk_0 class to a second class. Now if you're a first officer, you don't need to go back to get another

spk_0 FAA medical because you're not required to have a first class to be a first officer. So you

spk_0 can get your medical once a year over the age of 40. And then there's some other aspects to it.

spk_0 We're not really, that's not the whole point of the conversation is that when you need an AKG and

spk_0 when you don't know what age, but so there are other things, but they're all normal medicals.

spk_0 When you get a special issuance as you describe it to me. So after the six months goes by,

spk_0 as a captain now, normally you would go in and get another FAA medical. And if for whatever reason,

spk_0 let's say you were on a leave of absence, what do you need it for? Or if you're in a first officer,

spk_0 what do you need it for? Just let it go to the second class with a special issuance that doesn't

spk_0 happen, right? Right. Yes. Mine has a limitation on it right now that says not valid

spk_0 basically for another year. So after a year, it's not valid for first or second class anything. So

spk_0 that's basically the limitation of mine. And then which that wasn't there before.

spk_0 Right. So now it just, it doesn't downgrade. It just says, okay, it's no longer a first class

spk_0 medical done. No longer a medical period. Period doesn't go to second class or third class.

spk_0 So it doesn't downgrade. Usually it's first class downgrade to second and third class, right?

spk_0 Right. Right. Yeah. Speaking of, you know, while we were talking, thank you so much Rob for

spk_0 going through all of that. And it was a lot of detail and it's kind of a lot to take in. But

spk_0 it's very important for the listeners out there for aviators or aspiring aviators, especially those

spk_0 that are working on their ratings. And maybe they only have a second class or first class right

spk_0 now or a third class. And they intend to get a first class. Most pilot farms or flight schools

spk_0 require you to get a first class medical prior to enrolling because if there is an issue,

spk_0 you don't want to spend all that money on your training. And then find out, oh, you actually

spk_0 took a medication when you were 12 years old that disqualifies you. You know, there's so many

spk_0 things that could disqualify you. So they always encourage you to go and get a first class. And then

spk_0 you don't have to keep it up if you're in training. Obviously, you let it downgrade a second and

spk_0 third class, depending on what certificates you hold and what kind of flying you're doing. Yeah.

spk_0 But it's something that I've never, I mean, I have heard of people that have had issues, you know,

spk_0 heart issues, cholesterol issues, diabetes issues. But I've never had bigger stuff too, like

spk_0 cancers and stuff like that too. Exactly. You know, we've had that on the show. Absolutely.

spk_0 So it was really interesting because you're a healthy guy. You're playing rack-a-ball all the time.

spk_0 You've got, you're out there, you're, you know, you're not, it's not like you're sitting on the

spk_0 sofa, you know, eating, drinking beer all day long. You healthy opposite. You don't even drink. So

spk_0 I get an annual exam every year with blood workups and everything and all my numbers are

spk_0 right in the middle and maybe some of the cholesterol is a little bit higher than it should be. But,

spk_0 you know, the only real thing I suffer from is just being a little bit overweight because

spk_0 while I'm old and it's slowing down on a lot of things and it's just I'm a, I'm Hispanic.

spk_0 I'm Puerto Rican. So we get it in the butt in the gut. So I still like my rice and beans and

spk_0 stuff like that. But now you're right. But you know, it also on a side note about all this stuff,

spk_0 what was really important to me, which I would think, you know, all the listeners and all the

spk_0 fellow 121 operators out there, I would highly recommend just be real, real cognizant of your sick

spk_0 time. You know, you use it when you need it because in my particular case, I don't, I don't use

spk_0 I think I had about 140 hours of sick time in my bank. And it's August, right? It's July and August.

spk_0 And that sick event needed about 100 hours of sick time to take out of my, and now we have short

spk_0 term and long term disability and all that stuff too. But, you know, honestly, you know, there's

spk_0 some situations where, you know, that stuff would be really good to have and really good to use.

spk_0 But I didn't, you know, want it to want to burn all my stuff for something that was, you know,

spk_0 easily recoverable from and safer for something when I really need it, you know, say that sick time

spk_0 for when I really need it. Yeah. So, yeah, just, yeah, I have a copilot, a good friend of ours. We all

spk_0 know him. He actually around the same time went out on a medical condition. Yeah. And luckily,

spk_0 for him, his wasn't a disqualifying medical condition. He was just basically just sick for the

spk_0 condition that he had. And he didn't have any sick time. I mean, he burns a sick time like it's

spk_0 it, you know, oh, yeah, once a month, I just don't feel like going to work today, you know, so that's

spk_0 right. Mount Bern out. Yep. So he burns out a sick time. So next thing you know, he has a condition

spk_0 where he's not going to be able to go back to work for literally a month and a half because of his

spk_0 condition. And immediately he had to apply for the extended sick bank, which is something that our

spk_0 company thankfully offers for situations like this. Yeah. Now extended sick bank. And then he was

spk_0 dittling, dabbling, whether he'd have to go on short-term, long-term disability, which,

spk_0 you know, thankful, it's thankfully it's there. But, you know, not everybody has the

spk_0 leisure to or, you know, the flexibility or the financial, you know, time to actually go on

spk_0 something like that because, you know, I'm still recovering from legal financially,

spk_0 you know, what I'm talking about. And so I'm trying to do as much as I can, you know, in the

spk_0 years that I have remaining to, and I'm going to be fine. Don't get me wrong. I'm not, I just want

spk_0 to capitalize on on my health and my good, you know, good fortune with the, with the kind of money

spk_0 that we're making here flying. And, you know, a month off is a month off and that's what I have

spk_0 vacation for. I don't want to have to use it for sick time. Yeah. No, it's good advice. Thank you for

spk_0 sharing that because a lot of, and it doesn't matter what carrier you work for out here at a little

spk_0 time. It's like, well, man, it's for the company. And when you retire, you don't get to bring it

spk_0 with you. Some carriers bring like half the value and some other carriers give you pay out and

spk_0 some other carriers do this and that. But, yeah. But while you were giving us all this great

spk_0 information, we were joined finally by another fantastic co-host. He got his PC system working and

spk_0 what was that? A fox that was superimposed on your, on your face there. What was that? Things are

spk_0 called. Yeah, Avatar. I don't know. Avatar. Yeah. Was that the issue?

spk_0 Among some. No, there's a lot of other issues with, with my computer. So, you mentioned that

spk_0 you're a gamer. Is that what you use when you're gaming? Yes, sir. But it doesn't have all these

spk_0 issues. So, there's, you know, definitely. But let's get this intro out of the way. Shall we

spk_0 joining us also today is a probabier and squalker then co-host. He is a retired US Army Colonel and

spk_0 former Black Hawk battalion commander. His journey has led him to operate Apache's Black Hawk C-12's,

spk_0 UC-35's, and has had masters degrees, or has masters degrees in management and strategic studies.

spk_0 He is a former member here, 145 Boeing 737 Pilot. Currently a 7576 Pilot for Trans Global. The name

spk_0 we use here on the show is an alias to his employer, a US mainline carrier. Joining us from his

spk_0 home studio in Northern Virginia, where he's, he's enjoying some days off while the kids are back

spk_0 in school. Help me in welcoming our very own Terry S. Terry, how you doing?

spk_0 Better now that everything's working. It's, yeah, so long story short version is my computer died.

spk_0 Last week, I had the, it didn't die, but I had a bad core in the processor. And so I had to get a

spk_0 new CPU, a new motherboard, and rebuild everything. And after I rebuilt everything, you know,

spk_0 there's all the required configuration and all that stuff. So, I obviously rebuilt it after

spk_0 the last time we did a podcast. So, nothing was set up for that. And I had to go back in and

spk_0 reconfigure everything. Yeah. Well, you have pretty advanced gaming room there with your setup

spk_0 and your cameras and your, and so, yeah, I can understand how one little setting could kind of

spk_0 cause multiple issues. So, I do appreciate you working diligently to join us today. So, thank you

spk_0 for that. What have you been up to in this month and a half since the last podcast?

spk_0 Let's see, I was pretty busy flying last month. So, I've been on reserve. I'm right at the point

spk_0 where I could probably, I know I could have a line, but I bid for my days off. You know, I need

spk_0 particular days off because the life is at work or, you know, we've got some sort of event. So,

spk_0 I bid for days off. And if that means I'm on reserve, then I'm on reserve. So, as you guys know,

spk_0 summertime is busy. So, flew pretty much every reserve block over the last two months. I'm on

spk_0 reserve again this month. I got a short call tomorrow. So, I expect that I'll go out sometime. I'm

spk_0 on for six days. So, I'm sure I'll get a phone call sometime in the next six days to go fly. But,

spk_0 yeah, that's pretty much it. You know, just between flying and then trying to enjoy the last bits of

spk_0 summer before the kids went back to school about two weeks ago. And now they're back in school. So,

spk_0 things have kind of started to settle back into routine. Well, you know, I'm glad to hear that

spk_0 you're getting settled and you're out there on the line. It's funny. It's funny. The little

spk_0 things, the little comments that you make when you describe how things are over on your side and

spk_0 your operation. And they just like little things that kind of hurt me a little bit. Like they call

spk_0 you. You're on reserve. They call you to get to tell we got rid of that because we're using

spk_0 cognitive AI. So, we now we have this app called ECS or electronic communication system. And even

spk_0 our flight attendants over it at the legacy half of the snow. So, you're on your own call,

spk_0 you're on reserve, whether that's your call long call, doesn't matter. No one's going to call you.

spk_0 There's no phone calls. Like, you get reassigned in the middle of a trip. Really? There's nothing

spk_0 that you have an app. And that app will it'll go ding on your tablet. And if you don't have it on

spk_0 your phone, well, are you staring at your tablet? Oh, no, it's in my kit bag. 99% of time. So,

spk_0 I put it on my phone. But on the phone, it's not as responsible. It's not reliable. So, you're

spk_0 constantly going, well, let me check. Okay. No, 30 minutes or let me check. Okay. Now, they have a

spk_0 thing that the union has our union over at legacy. They have an excellent robo call feature. So,

spk_0 sometimes before the the ECS app gives you the notification that you've been assigned a trip,

spk_0 the robo call will call you and say, this is a robo call calling for, you know, captain and so on.

spk_0 So, you have a trip starting it. So, then you go, oh, let me check ECS. So, that's my saving grace

spk_0 for the anxiety of being on call. And now, you said you have short call tomorrow. If you're on

spk_0 call for a month on reserve, is it all the whole month your long call or the whole month your

spk_0 short call or is it could it be anything? So, we have we have different types of reserve lines.

spk_0 I bid traditional reserve, which for us is you are long call unless they call you to convert you

spk_0 to short call. Okay. So, yeah. So, I know that they put it on my schedule. So, they have a certain

spk_0 time period where they have to put it on my schedule. They don't have they don't technically have

spk_0 to call me today until after midnight because I'm off today. So, you know, if they call me today,

spk_0 they're, I'm not obligated to answer or respond in any way. You know, the thing I'm required to do

spk_0 is check my schedule and acknowledge the assignment sometime before midnight. If I don't do it by

spk_0 midnight, then they call me at midnight. I say, you know, first officer, you have a, yeah,

spk_0 short call tomorrow starting at 1300 and yeah, we'll mark you down as acknowledged. So,

spk_0 that's that's pretty much the way it works for your first day. Now, subsequent days they'll

spk_0 call and we, like I said, we also have different types of reserve lines. We have a, we have a straight

spk_0 long call line. So, it's great for commuters because they will always be on long call unless

spk_0 they volunteer for short call. Okay. And then we have, we have a couple others like a,

spk_0 we have a voluntary, it's called an early check. So, they can't assign me anything before 1300

spk_0 on my first day back. But if I have a voluntary early check line and they can assign me something

spk_0 earlier. Okay. So early early calling your first day, basically. Yeah, basically. Yeah.

spk_0 But we don't get any of those. For some reason, that's, it's like base seat or I'm sorry,

spk_0 base and fleet dependent. And we don't have any in my base on my fleet. So, yeah, it's mostly a

spk_0 narrow body thing. But we have, there's one other type of line. I think it's a voluntary short call

spk_0 line, which, you know, you can bid and you can be short calls all month. Oh, yeah, we have one more.

spk_0 It's compressed line. So our compressed lines you can do, you can have all your days of work

spk_0 grouped together. Okay. So like you'll, you'll be on for whatever, 18 days. And then, you know,

spk_0 every 168 hours, I guess, I think that's what it is. They have to give you a 30 hour break or whatever it

spk_0 is. Right. And they'll build that in as the month goes along. But, you know, otherwise, you get your,

spk_0 your 18 days knocked out and you're done. And then you're done. So they either front, front,

spk_0 front load or back load your months. So if you're a commuter, especially from say Europe,

spk_0 there's a flying with a guy recently, he said, yeah, I commute from Italy.

spk_0 But he's new, New York based. So I mean, there's the daily multiple, multiple shots daily to get

spk_0 as a computer from, from wherever he's commuting from Milan or Rome, Fumichino or wherever he's

spk_0 coming from into JFK. However, you know, it's, it's interesting to see like how they,

spk_0 like how do you do that? Like you go back and forth like every week. And I'm like, no, no, no,

spk_0 they go, I have a place here and stay with a brother or cousin or something. And it's like, I do like

spk_0 18 days on and then I go back and I'm off for two weeks. And then I bid the same thing next month.

spk_0 So yeah, it's interesting. You can, as a pilot, you can live around the world practically.

spk_0 And then make the schedule work and not be a part, be a full-time employee, just make it work for you.

spk_0 So, so thank you for sharing that. That's, it's interesting. You say that? No, we, we went to this ECS

spk_0 thing and it takes a little bit getting used to, it's actually not that bad because now you don't

spk_0 have to deal with phone calls and stuff. And on there, you, you confirm. So if you're in your window,

spk_0 then you don't have to confirm because you're in the window and they're, they expect you to acknowledge

spk_0 just by the fact that you receive this message and they can see everything, right? Um, and then

spk_0 if you're outside the window like it, I was complaining about this a couple shows ago that yeah,

spk_0 on reserve tomorrow, they can't technically assign me anything until midnight and yet here they

spk_0 assign me something today on my day off and I'm not required to confirm anything till midnight. And

spk_0 if I don't, then they'll probably send me another message at midnight to say, Hey, you can confirm

spk_0 you're going to be there. Um, they can't assign us anything on the first day until after, I'm on

spk_0 call until after 10 a.m. on the first day, so you get, yeah, 10 a.m. So you have like 10 hours

spk_0 opportunity or whatever it is or 12 hours. Right. Um, so whatever it is, I'm not quite sure

spk_0 I'll top my head, but um, yeah, they can't give you anything early on long call, but you can

spk_0 voluntarily confirm outside of your window when you're at rest and by voluntarily confirming

spk_0 they're like, okay, we're not going to bother you anymore. Um, yesterday actually, yesterday,

spk_0 day before, um, I was supposed to do a three-legged or on the third day and at a three hour sit in

spk_0 Dallas and then I was supposed to do a, I think it was a Omaha turn, but there was weather in Omaha.

spk_0 So that turned canceled. So before we left Orlando to go to Dallas on that first leg, uh,

spk_0 I, my tablet actually was sitting right there in the cradle in the cockpit and go,

spk_0 thing, you know, your fights cancel, like, what flex cancel? What? So look at it and my go, my Omaha

spk_0 turn just canceled. The F.O. goes, great. Um, then the, then the F.O.'s tablet goes, thing, you're

spk_0 reassigned. So the F.O. had to go to another turn. Um, I got to go to the hotel and the F.W.

spk_0 And I was actually there for 20 hours, 20 hours. I slept like the whole time. I haven't had more

spk_0 than a 12 hour layover in months. I've been complaining about it. I'm like, geez, they're for digging,

spk_0 I'm circadian, when I'm out the window. And I got 20 hours. So I, I think I slept four hours,

spk_0 went to the gym, had lunched and slept for another two hours and then got up my F.O. landed and I

spk_0 like, let's go to dinner and buy a beer or something. So we went downstairs and had a meal and

spk_0 and then got the sleep, you know, again, it's not cut up. But yeah, it's, uh, this whole way they

spk_0 notify you and stuff. Well, the whole point of this was, so I go to the hotel because it says,

spk_0 you know, your fights canceled, it shows you at rest now, you go into the hotel. So I go to the

spk_0 same hotel, it was a short hotel. It was the one they were at high at the F.W. I take my first nap,

spk_0 three hours and I wake up and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go to the gym, you know,

spk_0 get, get, get 30 minute workout in. So I'm just waking up and my phone starts to ring and it's,

spk_0 it's the dreaded, I'm like, what? I'm half awake. I'm like, why are they calling me? I'm

spk_0 it, but are they trying to reassign me? What's going on? So I looked at it and I almost answered it.

spk_0 Big no, no, don't answer. So I let it go to voicemail. They didn't leave a message. So I check my

spk_0 ECS and I'm like, what are they trying to do to me? You know, check the app. Nothing. They were

spk_0 just notifying me that my flight canceled. They interrupted my rest, but I didn't answer it,

spk_0 and even if I did, I would have had, I was, you know, 15 hours before my show the next day. So it

spk_0 would have been fine. But, but still it's like, yeah, it's like clown shows sometimes. Now, now

spk_0 speaking of Roger patiently waiting, Roger, your constant reminder to us here in this group

spk_0 that the airlines produce pilots that are very spoiled primadanas because of what we go through.

spk_0 Now, there's truth to that. I'm not going to deny that. We are spoiled. But you two are

spk_0 once an airline guy. Come on. What similarities are there between flying corporate being gone,

spk_0 having to do your own flight planning, weather planning? I mean, do you still look at us and go,

spk_0 or is it just different? What are the similarities? Yeah, like what do you guys complain about?

spk_0 You know, this is schedules and this is down. This is left. And this is right. That's it.

spk_0 And that might be about where it stops. It's odd. It's the same job.

spk_0 It's the same job that it's core. Yeah. But the way that we get there is it's very, very different.

spk_0 Like what the things that happen, you know, in the two hours prior to your flight and in a 24 hours

spk_0 prior to your flight is very different. What happens in two hours prior to our flight and the 24 hours prior

spk_0 to our flights? Yes, I was an airline pilot. And yes, I was for lack of better terms,

spk_0 I was just like you. I think it's I think the unions produce airline pilots the way that they are.

spk_0 Everything is turned into an airline management because it's a two way street. And

spk_0 and they create they make everything so adversarial like it's a zero sum game. If I gain something,

spk_0 then the other side has to lose something. And so we're always in that adversarial relationship.

spk_0 And at this core, I do understand that. We don't have the union aspect. We don't have

spk_0 seniority. And without the seniority that that takes a lot of the pilot the pilot part out of it.

spk_0 You know, I was just talking to our scheduler a couple weeks ago after one of my trips.

spk_0 I mean, she's got spreadsheets. And even I told you about my August, like I had nothing to do with my

spk_0 seniority. She's got spreadsheets for how many days you've been away from base, how many

spk_0 overnight, how many trips you've been PIC, how many you've been SIC, what countries you've gone to

spk_0 to try and make everything as even and equitable because the seniority does not exist. The trips that

spk_0 I get assigned have nothing to do with my seniority. We have guys to get, I mean, there is a little bit

spk_0 of a quote unquote seniority, but that's really just that's really just company longevity.

spk_0 That from a pay standpoint, but there's only three levels. And almost everybody is at one level.

spk_0 Almost and then the rest are at another level. And then we do have one guy that's that's one

spk_0 lower, but he'll probably move up pretty quickly. But there's no seniority. And so when you're not trying

spk_0 to step on each other and you're not like your schedule has nothing to do with where you are in

spk_0 seniority, we don't bid. We don't do anything. We have a completely independent scheduling

spk_0 person department that does the scheduling and it's done from an equitable standpoint.

spk_0 And then we all and then I could like I'm the youngest guy here. One of the flight attendants was

spk_0 laughing other day because I had a three person crew. I'm the youngest person and I was the

spk_0 most senior because we've now hired four guys after, you know, since I got hired, so I was the

spk_0 most senior. And it's like, well, what does that mean? I could not mean anything. It's just who

spk_0 happens to be assigned the PIC on the trip? I was PIC on that trip on PIC on the next one. And then

spk_0 I'm on the SIC on the one after that. So that's where I think a lot of it comes from. And like I

spk_0 say, the similarities, yeah, then we got up, down, left, right. But past that, it's very different.

spk_0 Yeah. Well, it sucks for one sucks for all. Sounds like what you're telling me. So like,

spk_0 when times are good, times are good for everybody on the roster. But when times are like busy and

spk_0 like everybody's flying equally because of the quality of the schedule, the way she has the

spk_0 spreadsheet. So you can't complain because it's also, it's more sometimes you're, sometimes they

spk_0 have the easy trip. And sometimes they have a hard trip. And I'll use my next trip. As an

spk_0 example of this, I have the easy portion of the trip. It's all one airplane. The airplane we're

spk_0 going to fly from San Diego and we're flying to Milan. That's so I'm flying.

spk_0 The San Diego to Milan portion. And then I'm going to airline the next day from Milan to Munich.

spk_0 Excuse me. And I'm going to sit in Munich for four nights. Because when we take it to Milan,

spk_0 there's another crew that's airlining out tonight. They're airlining to Milan because then they're

spk_0 going to do Milan to Rome, Rome to Milan, Milan to Berlin, Berlin to Rome, Rome to Munich, I think.

spk_0 And that's in the span of four days. That's not fair. I'm glad I'm not, I'm tired. I'm not doing

spk_0 that. I have nothing to do with that. And I, and I'm, and I got, I mean, I'll just say I got,

spk_0 it's I got lucky. But sometimes I've been the interior where I was in India and I did five

spk_0 interior legs and four interior India legs in five days, which culminated in a red eye flight

spk_0 from Udelie to London. It was a 10 plus hour flight and then the crew, we handed it off to the

spk_0 crew and they had a shorter flight from London back to San Diego, despite having just sat around

spk_0 for a week. So your operation is like going all the time. It's not like, it's not like some smaller

spk_0 operators are part 135s where, you know, you'll fly out, you might be due two or three destinations

spk_0 for a corporate job. And then you spend the night and you might be there for four or five days.

spk_0 Like your previous employer, you'd be sending me videos from destinations on resort beaches. And

spk_0 you're like, yeah, we got the car, we got the credit card, we're going to have the difference

spk_0 between a private owner who's primarily doing more vacations and a corporation. Like we

spk_0 fly for meetings, these guys boom, boom, boom, hit the meetings and when they're done with the

spk_0 mean is they come home. Yeah, every minute is going to be the and you're sitting around at

spk_0 be the for a week and then you're going to go to a rubah. Yeah. And then for two weeks and then

spk_0 you're going to, you know, wherever. And so that's different on the part 91 side as well.

spk_0 Well, now that you've both, which one do you enjoy more do you think?

spk_0 Yeah, I like everything else. There's pros, there's pros and there's cons. You know, it's

spk_0 definitely the trips doing the corporate corporation. They're harder. They're harder physically.

spk_0 You guys were talking about you guys being tired. I laugh at your circadian rhythm like

spk_0 our circadian rhythms. I did. You fly within what three time zones, you can't even figure out

spk_0 three time zones, but I digress. But time we starting tomorrow. Eastern time. Eastern standard time.

spk_0 Now we're going to Zulu. We're going to go to Zulu. That's it. I just got to do the math.

spk_0 And so you're flying outside this time zones, I think, right? Yeah, I do six time zones.

spk_0 So I do want to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I think. Whoa. That's how I was in Anchorage. Yeah.

spk_0 That's right. And so, you know, we fly a lot of red eye flights. There are sometimes we're

spk_0 going to we fly. We'll fly for 13 hours. We're on the ground for 18 hours. We'll turn around and

spk_0 we'll fly 13 hours back. So in the span of that time, we flew for 26 hours. We're on the ground for 18.

spk_0 That's hard. There are times. Yes, where I've done that, you know, we were in Indian. We did five or

spk_0 six legs in the span of five days. Yeah. Like it was brutal. Like multiple flights on on a couple

spk_0 of the days. And you get back and you're just completely wiped out from that. But it's not boring.

spk_0 It's not boring, but then you're home versus if you're if you're going to do more of the

spk_0 vacation stuff, you go and you you get to wherever you're going, we'll just you get went to

spk_0 Mallorca. And okay, well, that was great. And now we're going to sit here in the hotel for 10 days.

spk_0 It sounds awesome for a lot of people that are listening. But okay, now we're going to fly from

spk_0 Mallorca and we're going to go to Auckland. Okay, so we just flew for 18 hours.

spk_0 Now, you're going to see who's planning this, who's doing the planning and the fuel scoring and the

spk_0 weather. Who's doing that? Well, if you have a plane that can fly from Mallorca to New Zealand,

spk_0 you have people for that too. I'm just using this as a generic example. Now you flown for two days,

spk_0 you've flown for whatever 25 hours, you haven't been home in two weeks and you've what have you done?

spk_0 Sit around on a beach and then sat around in a hotel on Auckland, which do you want to do?

spk_0 It sounds really awesome and it kind of is at the beginning. But once you start doing that year,

spk_0 after year after year, I haven't really necessarily done it for that long.

spk_0 But it does your the time away from home is much longer and you're really not doing anything

spk_0 for days and weeks on it. So it's a pick again, like a lot of things that's a pick your poison.

spk_0 Whereas what I do right now, when we go, typically we go and even even for the longer trips,

spk_0 we're gone maybe five days and then we're home and we have a week off.

spk_0 And so there's a much less downtime, there's much less boredom for lack of better terms.

spk_0 But you don't acclimate to whatever time zone you're in. Yeah, it's funny because I hear from

spk_0 people around like Robin R. seniority that we've grown up with in the past 20 years,

spk_0 different carriers and like, hey, what's up? How are you doing? You see each other at the airport or

spk_0 you're you know, you're swapping aircraft and you know, you're see a guy you haven't seen in 12

spk_0 years, but you remember each other because you were in new higher class together, whatever.

spk_0 And so you're like, hey, aren't you going to go to the heavy? Like, don't you want to do that?

spk_0 And you know, and Terry is doing the wide body flying. And Roger, you are doing wide body

spk_0 flot. That's that is exactly what you're doing. You're just doing it with a little bit more

spk_0 rigor, a little bit more intensity than say a airline wide body crew because an airline wide

spk_0 body crew. Sure, the do that time zone difference, those long, long flights with relief, but it's

spk_0 so regulated that like everything's done for you. And you don't have that luxury as much. You're

spk_0 doing more. You're expected to kind of go into places you've never been before and you're gone.

spk_0 You don't have that time to recuperate like airline pilots do like every. Yeah, it's kind of

spk_0 it's kind of a hybrid. We do the wide body flying, but then we back it right back up to

spk_0 narrow body flying because the plane can do both. You can fly that long haul flight.

spk_0 Right. Well, don't quote wide body and then you know, do that San Diego to Milan. And then

spk_0 nine hours later, it's doing Milan to Rome. Right. In the exact same plane. Right.

spk_0 I'll be it we're doing a different crew because of the shorter turnaround. But if it's the next day,

spk_0 that same crew is going to fly that 40 minute flight and it's going to take another into

spk_0 into Europe flight for another 40 minutes. So it's kind of a hybrid because the plane does both.

spk_0 And I could see how that keeps it more entertaining work, citing and also how that could

spk_0 after a while. I mean, I can't anything after a while. It tends to get monotonous and you have

spk_0 to be careful because then that's when complacency starts to rear its ugly head. Now,

spk_0 I wanted to talk to Alex a little bit about his experience right before he went out on

spk_0 Milan on maternity leave. He actually had some exciting experiences in the upgrade. Now,

spk_0 for those listeners out there that have been listening to the show and listen to us discuss

spk_0 what to expect out there on the flight line at this level. All right. At the top of the pyramid.

spk_0 And it doesn't matter how you cut it, whether you're flying a G8 around the country into India and

spk_0 Milan or if you're flying a 7576 over the pond or if you're doing the narrow body stuff.

spk_0 And as Rob said, six different time zones, you know, one day you're in Alaska, the next day you're

spk_0 in L.A. and the third day you're in New York and you're coming back and they expect you to be like

spk_0 just go, go, go. And we complain about it because maybe our wheels are a little squeakier.

spk_0 And I'm proud to have that hard. I can squeak you. You'll get a crease, right?

spk_0 But, you know, but we all experience these challenges a little differently. Now, Alex to follow his

spk_0 journey, which we have done since he was first on the show, we followed him from brand new higher

spk_0 at a regional airline, drinking from the fire hose, what to expect in training, how, you know,

spk_0 going through his ATPCTP. And we've been very proud of Alex that he's moved on to now PIC of a

spk_0 turbine, Embryer 175. And he was getting the pay before he was doing the duty because of the

spk_0 fantastic contract that they have over at Santa Piper. But finally, it was his time. It was his

spk_0 time to upgrade and you went through your training, which was qualified upgrade kind of style

spk_0 training. You're already been on the airplane. You saw everything that needed to be seen. You

spk_0 already knew the operation. And you talked to us a little bit about that when that time came. But

spk_0 the presentation fed ride. Now, fed rides a little bit different than a check ride. But check

spk_0 ride is within the company to get you types are defecated. They do that in the simulator. Once your

spk_0 types are defecated for that aircraft, they get you out on the line for your initial operating

spk_0 experience or IOE. That's what we say in the industry. So you went through your IOE to check

spk_0 airman takes you up. They basically kind of make sure that you're doing everything the way you're

spk_0 supposed to be doing it. A lot of things, real world things, you can't really train in a simulator.

spk_0 So that's what's it there to kind of iron those things out. And then when they say, okay,

spk_0 you're ready. You've done your IOE experience. It's time for a fed ride. Now, that's where the FAA or

spk_0 an FAA authorized check airman will sit in the jump seat and observe. Now, these are not pass or

spk_0 fail events. These are, okay, I observed this person. They're not only observing you as the

spk_0 qualified upgrade candidate. They're also observing the program. The check airman that gave you

spk_0 their blessing or their signature or their sign off. They're observing, okay, does this captain

spk_0 have good judgment? Is this captain going to be safe? Going to follow us a piece? And as long as

spk_0 you don't bust an FAA are during your fed ride, you get the blessing. And the only reason I know

spk_0 this is because one, all of us that have been sitting in the left seat have gone through it,

spk_0 at least once. And two, I was honored to be selected to be an FAC or an FAA authorized check

spk_0 airman when I was at San Piper for my last few years. So I was the guy that sat in the jump seat

spk_0 and observed. And I never really saw anything major. And you had that experience. Now,

spk_0 that experience as Rob was talking about the stress and anxiety dealing with the unknown of a

spk_0 medical that I got out of the hope I passed, you know, going through this, jumping through these

spk_0 hoops. And I just don't want there to be any hangups because it's my career on the line. You had

spk_0 to go through a fed ride, which is very similar in the stress levels and anxiety because you know,

spk_0 you know your stuff, you operate all the time. But now you have a fed sitting there with their clip

spk_0 board or whatever in their Hawaiian shirt. And they were just here to help. And they're here to

spk_0 observe you. Now, how did your experience go? Well, so I had an FAC sit on on my fed ride. I

spk_0 didn't have an actual fed. So I had at least that blessing that, you know, the nerves weren't as bad

spk_0 as it being an actual fed, but still a fed nonetheless, they're fed by designation.

spk_0 My, I just finished my force sequence of IOE and it was literally a Austin turn to end my sequence.

spk_0 And I had to fly down to Austin and the, the FAC was going to observe me. And then another

spk_0 captain on upgrade was going to fly the leg back. And I was going to dead head in the back on the

spk_0 way back. So typical protocol, I think that's the way that Sam Piper does it. I'm not sure how,

spk_0 you know, obviously, legacy airlines and or trans global does it. But that's the way that we do it

spk_0 just to be efficient with it. You can get two for the price of one, basically. So I just treated

spk_0 it like it was normal flight, you know, the guy wasn't there. So I had, you know, my normal flight with the,

spk_0 why am I blanking on what they're called? Why I checked, Aaron? Yes, thank you. Which actually,

spk_0 that has now changed because it is now a line check pilot. Airman to disqualifies women from being in

spk_0 the line check. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I thought number one, I heard that legacy was very good

spk_0 about not regressing to that. And they were going to go back to what the FAA is going to do is

spk_0 now reprint the FAR and remove all that stuff. Now notice is terror. Men, airmen are doing that.

spk_0 And Piper is not doing that. They they've made it now. You're a LCP, a line check pilot.

spk_0 Same here. Yeah, LCPs, okay. Show title. I can expect that from from Transglobal.

spk_0 Definitely, back that from Transglobal, but not the lazy now.

spk_0 Now Transglobal has always been a leader in not DEI, but just like being inclusive and,

spk_0 and you know, so yeah, I would expect that from from Transglobal.

spk_0 government money.

spk_0 Anyways, I got my line check airman in the right seat with me. And we just hop in and, you know,

spk_0 do our business like we normally do get to Austin. And if anybody's flown the DFW to Austin,

spk_0 they slam dunk you and they it's such a short ILS going in there. The final approach fix is like

spk_0 three or four miles from the, oh yeah, it's it's close. It's not like down, and they set you up,

spk_0 you know, on a 15 mile, you know, final coming in and, you know, report netty inbound to tower,

spk_0 you know, nothing like that. It's like it's close. So the first, you know, first time going in there

spk_0 as a captain, I know that they slammed on us. We talked about it, you know, we briefed it.

spk_0 And so came in and just I was all over the place and sloppy and I'll admit it on a visual

spk_0 approach going in there. And we got to the final approach fix and I wasn't, final approach fix

spk_0 basically coincides with 1000 feet, wasn't stable, went around. Good job.

spk_0 Came back around. They sequenced me back in on that go around. I, we had briefed, you know,

spk_0 setting the misdeproach altitude as the misdeproach altitude per the approach chart,

spk_0 but because it was under visual conditions, you know, they told me to climb to like in 2000 versus

spk_0 2500 versus what the chart says. What they told me to climb to 2000 as we're busting through like 22,

spk_0 2300. Yeah. All right, descending back to 2000. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. Now like,

spk_0 actually, you're fine. Just climb back up to 25, whatever it was. And so we came back around

spk_0 and they re sequenced us back in, but they sequenced us back in behind a purple box mover

spk_0 who needed to land the full length of the runway in Austin. And I don't know if Tony,

spk_0 you've been in Austin. I know Rob probably has. But you know how they have the two taxiways that

spk_0 are basically like really close to each other. Every airplane can make it on one of those except

spk_0 for, you know, heavies that take up the full length of the runway because that's it. Either get the

spk_0 entrance, one of those two taxiways or the full end. There's no, you know, high speeds on both

spk_0 sets of runways on one eight left and one eight right. So you have really no option if you miss one of

spk_0 those, you know, exits other than taking it down to the end. And that's what FedEx did is they took

spk_0 it all the way down to the end, which ended up working in my favor because I was a little bit behind

spk_0 the airplane, not bad. I was within stable criteria, just a little bit off. And there's just some

spk_0 things and they're like, Hey, go around ATC called the go around that time. Okay. So I'm like, okay,

spk_0 let's sequence me back in. And the approach mode wasn't working the way I wanted to. So I disconnected

spk_0 an hand flute down. And that's where I was kind of like the little bit of out of it. And it just got,

spk_0 I was behind it because I was playing catch up with the approach modes on the guidance panel.

spk_0 And on the third one, I said, you know what? They're advertising visuals.

spk_0 Fuck it. Take out the ILS, throw in the GPS approach. I know this one better. I'm just going to hit one

spk_0 button and it'll sequence everything and came in, flew it down to like 200 feet, just connected the

spk_0 autopilot landed. So what I'm hearing you say is you're used to threaten error management model or

spk_0 TEM to use superior judgment. Because you saw that the first one was a meoculpa. Okay. The second one,

spk_0 you could have easily, sounds like you could have easily recovered, but it was a ATC and because

spk_0 the combination of both it was me and ATC. If I could do a little fast, a little whatever. Yeah.

spk_0 So, you know, sometimes low is low of automation, right? That's what they teach us.

spk_0 If it's not working out, it's like you said, it's visual. Well, the lowest level of automation,

spk_0 in your case, you know what? Give me an R&A because the R&A is just a little bit more forgiving,

spk_0 a little bit more guidance, follow those command bars all the way down and boom. And you know what?

spk_0 You passed. Why? Well, so here's the here's the issue with that. We get down and we're doing our

spk_0 debrief and my checkerman was fantastic. He's like, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know,

spk_0 you did the go around. I'm gonna cause all that good, you know, blah, blah. I'm the FAC's like, what?

spk_0 What did you bust the limitation or a federal ABA or shun regulation? Oh, what he was saying is I

spk_0 technically because it was visual, I busted the altitude, but we didn't brief it that way. We

spk_0 briefed it on the ILS and they were advertising the ILS. So I planned for the ILS, but when they cleared

spk_0 me, they cleared me for visual, not an ILS.

spk_0 I have a hard time with that one because you know, yes, you want to like sit there and analyze

spk_0 like what guidance were you using, but if it's a visual approach, you can back it up with whatever

spk_0 you want. Right. They cleared you for the ILS? No. So when they advertised it on the AITIS, the AITIS

spk_0 was an ILS. Oh, they advertise the ILS and you brief the ILS. They cleared you the visual because

spk_0 you had it in sight. So you used different guidance than what was advertised. Well, that's what they

spk_0 have done. That's what I know. But it's not like they were advertising a GPS or an R&F and you

spk_0 decided to use an ILS because that would have been bad because you don't even know if the beam

spk_0 is correct, if it was maybe an op, maybe there's no room you missed. Okay. But to go from an ILS

spk_0 and say, hey, well, what are the satellites out of whack? I mean, this is GPS.

spk_0 Well, and so that's where the FAC had a little bit of issue with it because he's like, well,

spk_0 in technicality because you know, the visual approach is supposed to go to pattern altitude.

spk_0 Where ever is pattern altitude? Or the last assigned altitude, which is the altitude that you

spk_0 were assigned when you were cleared for the approach, which was 2500 feet, which is also the angle.

spk_0 Yeah. And you know, this is actually a debate and thank you for bringing it up and Rob also as

spk_0 well, because this is a debate and I'm curious to see how trans global does it as well and maybe even

spk_0 over on the private side with Roger. But so over at legacy, they train us when visual approaches are

spk_0 in use during the day, you are recommended to back it up with something, anything. ILS,

spk_0 Arnav, whatever is authorized, we can back it up with whatever we want. That's appropriate for

spk_0 that runway. We are not allowed to fly below glide path, even on a visual. So you maintain your

spk_0 last assigned altitude until you intercept either a safe altitude charted or you mean the same

spk_0 that altitude until glide to loop intercept and then boom, when you set missed approach altitude,

spk_0 RSOPs say you use the charted missed approach altitude or last assigned. Most of the time, a charted

spk_0 we're backing it up with an ILS. So we put on whatever the ILS altitude is coming in a DFW,

spk_0 for example, 3000 feet, right? Now, if you have ever done a go around and DFW, which I'm sure we

spk_0 all have had at least once, they usually give you 25 under feet. Okay, why? Now, some air traffic

spk_0 controllers don't like this. They're like stick to the far aim, stick to the regulation. If it's a

spk_0 visual approach, jet traffic is 1500 feet, AGL, that's what it should be, right? So, okay, now you want

spk_0 me to do public math again. So our company says, no, no, just last assigned or charted

spk_0 Mr. Proche procedure. NFATC modifies that. Fine. If they say go missed, you go missed on the charted

spk_0 missed approach. Now, if you're on a clear to visual, what's the charted missed approach? They're

spk_0 always going to tell you runway heading and altitude, always requirement. So they're going to tell

spk_0 you what they want. That's what it was was we did the go around and we're going around and they're

spk_0 like, okay, well, as we started to climb up, you know, they didn't hit us with a heading or

spk_0 altitude. We were starting to fly the published and then they hit us with the heading and altitude

spk_0 out because they realized that they didn't give it to you. So technically, if you want to be

spk_0 technical for the FAC, not that I would ever argue with anybody on the flight deck during any

spk_0 kind of evaluation, but I'd say, well, you know, then he then if you say, well, they were required

spk_0 to give us a heading altitude and on a go around on a visual approach, they didn't do that. So I

spk_0 would ask the FAC of who is going to a sap that controller for not doing his job either. Exactly.

spk_0 I was not getting in the middle of it because my check airman because it's everybody safety is

spk_0 everybody's responsibility. My check airman and him were starting to

spk_0 you just step back good. I just went cool. You guys got it like figured out like and then finally

spk_0 they were like, okay, that's when you got to do the step the step brother movie thing, you know,

spk_0 when they asked for permission to do extra activities, you go, so does that mean I passed?

spk_0 So they went back and forth and they, you know, yeah, they wanted to have a little debate,

spk_0 you know, battle the mind. But you know what, you worked out for you, right? So you did it.

spk_0 And how many hours do you have on the line right now? How's it? How's the PIC?

spk_0 About a hundred ish somewhere in there. So you're what do you call it? Your

spk_0 consolidation? Did you have to do that? No, because it's not your free. I don't have one.

spk_0 I'll pay. I have to get my 300 hours to remove my restrictions.

spk_0 300 hours. Oh, you're you're you're you have a 300 hour

spk_0 percentage captain captain. Okay. Now I can do I can't do cat two approaches,

spk_0 but I can do cat one approaches at a half mile and a hundred feet or something like that.

spk_0 To any non precision and then with the the ILS, like I can do it down to minimums as long

spk_0 as it's coupled with the autopilot all the way down to minimums. So, but after 300, that's when

spk_0 my restrictions remove and I'm good. And so like some listeners mouth there might be going,

spk_0 what's a restricted captain? Does that mean you're not, you know, so no, every every part 121 carrier

spk_0 and I don't know, maybe part 135 or 91 has it too. I don't know. But every part 121 carrier,

spk_0 it's actually the CFR 14 or 121.652 indicates that a restricted captain is a captain with or at

spk_0 least a legacy a pilot with less than 100 hours PIC time and company aircraft type calculation of

spk_0 PIC hours for restricted captains is subject to the following conditions. The requirement is 100

spk_0 hours of PIC and company aircraft of that type cannot include operating experience or ILE.

spk_0 If the captain has at least 100 hours total PIC time and other company aircraft types and the

spk_0 requirement of 100 hours PIC may be reduced to not exceed 50% of the substituting one landing

spk_0 or one hour PIC time in the aircraft type. And there's limitations associated with it as Alex

spk_0 was indicating in Rob as well. Cap two, cat three approaches, restricted captain cannot

spk_0 conduct a cat two unless using an FAA exemption 5549. Now we're getting into the weeds with

spk_0 this legal ease. But an exemption and FAA exemption works only in the United States where the FAA

spk_0 governs airspace. So you if you're going into Canada unless a particular important Canada has

spk_0 a exemption to that exemption you can't use the restricted captain legal ease with the exemption

spk_0 to do less than say cat one approach. So now you have to go well I'm a restricted captain there's

spk_0 weather in Canada or whether in Mexico I have higher minimums because you have to add like you said

spk_0 half mile and so many a hundred feet. So then you know if it's in the US you can go we

spk_0 yeah but there's an exemption here that I can use and just got to make sure that all the ducks

spk_0 were in a row you know never thought I'd be a lawyer until I became a pilot and realized I have

spk_0 to protect my certificate by knowing this stuff and it's all legal ease and written in a way where

spk_0 you read it and you're like what what I just read. So yeah it's it's all in there in your company's

spk_0 op specs and it's the same over I'm assuming a trans global with the restricted captain rules

spk_0 pretty much the same thing a hundred hours right Terry. I'm pretty sure it's a hundred hours

spk_0 but I don't I don't know that right off the top of my head but I think it's a hundred hours

spk_0 and Alex you're saying in 300 hours over at Sam Piper yeah so they got a little bit more

spk_0 than Sam Piper. Roger is there anything like that at all when it comes to flying corporate?

spk_0 Not really I mean you have to also remember that in Alex's case at least when you're talking

spk_0 about 300 hours that exceeds the annual amount of flying for a lot of corporate departments.

spk_0 250 hours is a lot yeah or as a it's about the number you're looking at on an annual basis and a

spk_0 lot of places we fly more but 250 is like kind of oh okay so that's that's one point but then the

spk_0 other thing is we also most 91 operators and I shooting category two or category three approaches

spk_0 we have kind of something different now we have EDS yeah you're forward infrared vision yeah yeah

spk_0 and then so we can so we can use that that can take us down if we have EDS lights which is basically

spk_0 infrared lighting that we can see in the HUD we can use that and we can go down to

spk_0 100 feet with that but that's as low as we can go we don't do any the 50 feet category two or

spk_0 the 0-0 category three so that's also another difference but no other than that we don't have anything

spk_0 FAA related yeah yeah well you know that there's so much that you have to know and it's amazing I

spk_0 I went to a dinner in San Francisco I went to go visit my mom and my sister and and nieces and

spk_0 nephews and things and so we went up there and spent a couple days up there and I called up a

spk_0 friend from high school now on high school or when I was in high school in the Bay Area there and

spk_0 there was another Italian family that was in the school so our parents were friends they became

spk_0 friends we got to know each other and my dad owned an auto repair shop so I was turning

spk_0 a wrench for him as a kid and doing work orders and washing cars and you know cleaning up the shop

spk_0 and putting tools away things like that the other Italian family they owned a restaurant and

spk_0 they came from a long line of restaurant tiers and restaurant to however you say that you know

spk_0 that it chefs and and at one point my friend Angelo who was a year ahead of me said to me hey you

spk_0 want to come work at the restaurant on weekends we need help we just can't we can't find people to help

spk_0 I was like yeah I'll come help out you know I'll pay you you know I'll pay you a little bit

spk_0 under the table you just bus boy kind of stuff and you know I'm like yeah sure I'll help you

spk_0 out until you can find someone so I did that for a while and I'll never forget it was a very very

spk_0 positive memory in in my life to have that experience with another Italian family and and so

spk_0 you know graduate high school you move on you go to college you go to come and pilot whatever

spk_0 I never lost a connection with Angelo and his sister Julia and Jerry as well or older brother

spk_0 and so on social media we always stay in touch well the kids all opened up restaurants and other

spk_0 businesses and stuff so whenever I'm in the Bay Area I try to go to Angelo's restaurant he has

spk_0 a fantastic place in Berkeley and I call them up I said hey I know it's short notice I'm in town

spk_0 are you open tonight or tomorrow I'd like to bring my family or for dinner and he says no

spk_0 we're not open we're closed for a private event but you know what hey you're in town you come

spk_0 over up put you in the back room don't worry about it you're not gonna have to deal with the other

spk_0 room you know just I'll take care of you it's okay so he says to me hey just do me a favor you

spk_0 don't have to worry about the menu the meal nothing I'll take care of it then I don't even have

spk_0 a cashier today don't worry about it he goes but I want you to talk to my son he's wants to go to

spk_0 Emory Roodle and am I okay like absolutely so he's there you know busing and being a waiter and

spk_0 all that stuff and so I pulled him aside after he had a moment we probably talked for like an hour

spk_0 hour and a half about what his expectations were about getting into aviation he was like

spk_0 big in the simulators and things like that and so he and I had this wonderful conversation I

spk_0 asked a lot of questions and we talked about the both the podcasts and where he can get some

spk_0 information on what to expect but but primarily like how to get started what mistakes do most

spk_0 people make in the aviation industry especially when you're looking at flight schools and dealing with

spk_0 flight instructors and how some of them are there just to build time they don't give a crap about

spk_0 the fact that they're an instructor and they're supposed to be using the principles of learning and

spk_0 and you know has a bit of attitude awareness and all this stuff and you know how to save money

spk_0 especially when you're going to a flight farm and so a very positive experience wonderful

spk_0 wonderful individual angel if you're out there angel or junior definitely give me a call let me

spk_0 know how things are going out I'm gonna check up with him because he was just getting ready to

spk_0 to kind of dive into it full time so they're out there young people interested motivated wanting

spk_0 to be airline pilots unfortunately most have no idea what they're getting themselves into like

spk_0 what most of us did right but it's still to this day I still will hand on a Bible swear that this

spk_0 is a fantastic career yes I had I didn't mean interrupt but I was gonna say just to kind of add

spk_0 on to that I had in a moment the other day you know after the first trip back after getting cleared

spk_0 to fly that was kind of what you're talking about I sat I was doing something I don't know if it

spk_0 just got off the phone talking to my daughter about you know college and you know what her kind of a

spk_0 forecast her next move is going to be after college for education and stuff like that but I

spk_0 sat there and I thought about it it just hit me and it was that I am where my younger self

spk_0 wished I was back then you know I don't know if I said that right but you know when you're learning

spk_0 how to fly and you're like oh I can't wait to get to that point well here we are this is where I am

spk_0 so anyway I don't know I didn't mean to interrupt and no please that's derail your

spk_0 a cut's why I have comment but that's what that's why I have you guys on to interrupt me please yeah

spk_0 um so yeah you know it's amazing and and there's a reason I I volunteer with the cadet programs and

spk_0 I tried to mentor as many people as I can some of them actually I start mentoring

spk_0 make it and end up on podcast and captains at airlines and so I guess I'm doing something

spk_0 right and I and I just enjoy speaking with young people talking about their future

spk_0 I'm mentoring three female avi future aviators too that they're these are classmates of my

spk_0 my daughters and they're all pursuing aviation careers and I think you know it's kind of like

spk_0 what you're going on right now you know or even you know that kind of moment that I just had where

spk_0 it's like you know one day I'm going to get to this point and here I am and you know these

spk_0 girls are are all working towards that that uh that position right now and it's kind of cool to

spk_0 watch them you know start it with the dream and then start taking the lessons and you know every now

spk_0 and then they'll call and talk ockin you know hey where are you at oh I'm working on my instrument

spk_0 rating I'm like oh all right cool you know approaching the departure control yeah where do you

spk_0 find those frequencies and I'm like oh yeah on this approach chart you're like yeah there you go

spk_0 you're doing good so it's kind of awesome to hear all that stuff going on in their lives and

spk_0 anyway yeah no to have the younger generation so interested I love it when when they come

spk_0 into the flight deck and say hey can we come in and take like and I don't know if you guys do

spk_0 anything um no the companies some some companies give you little wings to hand out and I know legacy

spk_0 that they're really terrible about it there there's always a stash somewhere in some break room but

spk_0 they got the little needles in the back and it's kind of like I'm really going to give a little kid

spk_0 this pin with a new one I always tell the parents hey you know be careful with this you know but um

spk_0 I had an F.O. that had remember those balsa wood uh airplanes that you would just you slide the

spk_0 wing into the thing and you put it like a penny in front you throw it so he yeah had a a crap ton

spk_0 of these things in his kitback yeah and every time somebody came up to take a picture you know I

spk_0 I as I always get up and I say here comes sitting the captain seat and let's let's get mom and dad

spk_0 take a pifoto and like hey what's your name you know and do you like gladiator movies and I'm

spk_0 kidding but uh so uh so I have uh I always have this like little interaction and then my F.O.

spk_0 reaches in and he grabs one of these a couple see you got yeah you guys got to wait a minute hold on a

spk_0 second what let's I'm gonna get to that in a second but uh so he gave out these these little things

spk_0 so I went on he goes yeah it's good on Amazon and like a hundred pack for like whatever you know

spk_0 it's just you're making up you know so that's what I did I went in I didn't get the balsa

spk_0 with ones I got like some smaller ones that start my styrofoam ones yes and so now I have

spk_0 have a stack of these things and like always keep ten in my kit bag and and when I remember I've been

spk_0 doing I'm gonna do that I've been I've been tearing off the uh just getting a new clearance you know

spk_0 you print it out because there's I don't have anything so I'm like hey here's the here's today's

spk_0 flight plan and clearance here I'll sign it for you F.O. sign it for you to give them the flight

spk_0 plan you know they walk around going I can't even read it but that's cool that's cool yeah it's good

spk_0 yeah you know uh the company used to give the junior aviators these little logbooks and occasionally

spk_0 you still see them around and and they come up oh we have some special guests captain can you

spk_0 sign the logbook and they and you open it up and it says you know legacy airlines little logbooks

spk_0 in there and then you put in the flight number and how many miles and and the date and the aircraft

spk_0 and then you and the F.O. would sign it and then you say how are you giving back to the kids and

spk_0 they have these logbooks and they log every flight and uh one time I even had an adult give me one

spk_0 of those and go to these count for flight time why I get like uh yeah no um but um I missed those now

spk_0 a lot of people have been asking do you guys have the trading cards yeah do you have the trading card

spk_0 Delta airlines has trading cards that they give the pilots and like if you're on a seven five

spk_0 seven six they have the trading cards and they give them out legacy will not do it I've I've

spk_0 talked to the chief pilot literally a week ago I'm like hey are we ever gonna get these trading

spk_0 cards I get I'm sick and tired of people asking for a I'd love to give them something and I was

spk_0 assured that it'll never ever happen at legacy airlines now Terry just held up something for trans

spk_0 trans global now is this a trans global sponsor thing

spk_0 yeah these are um manufactured, procured whatever by the company and uh usually like I usually carry

spk_0 I don't know five or six of each variety uh so I got one for the seven five one for the seven six

spk_0 it's kind of hard it's trying to blur it with my background but um front sides got picture of the

spk_0 airplane back sides got stats on the airplane you know how how uh max takeoff weight how much fuel

spk_0 max altitude etc so yeah trading card now when we've had them yeah we've had them for a while

spk_0 we just had an older version that that looked I mean pretty cheap honestly and then they just

spk_0 started doing these maybe about take year or two ago they started making the new ones so okay

spk_0 now I have you seen the delta ones yeah yeah those things yeah they're nice holographic and

spk_0 you were a descend thank thank you Alex Alex just found on Etsy somebody is uh producing these

spk_0 for legacy airlines yeah check south this is awesome I'm ordering some today yeah this is amazing

spk_0 thanks Alex I really think that whoever whoever is taking the time to produce these I hope they're

spk_0 good quality because I would love to be able to hand these out but the problem is is it

spk_0 in the pack that you get you only get like you get 2501 and I don't know obviously with the three

spk_0 I'm reading it now a set of 70 American Airlines Airbus set of trading cards you get A321 A320

spk_0 A319 coded front and back create to allow created to allow each card to be given away and personalize

spk_0 great for flight crews employees and collectors each card it's 2.5 by 3.5

spk_0 inches and its size as trading card collector card series printed in the USA

spk_0 I just ordered two sets so I know that someone in one of my group chats said that they ordered

spk_0 the 170 175 cards and it sparked me to send it to you guys because I sent it to Tony personally the 175 one

spk_0 and I was like oh wait let me see if they've got anything else and sure enough they've got a bunch

spk_0 of different ones from legacy airlines and their whole trading card set basically so if you guys move

spk_0 up and move on to like the triple or the 7-8 or you know 7-3 go readgrass or whatever they have them all

spk_0 yeah no this is this is fan

spk_0 fantastic um and you know whoever whoever is producing this and putting it on Etsy and thank you

spk_0 obviously a legacy airline pilot that uh wants to do this um it is little things like these

spk_0 that airlines do that make a huge difference with their customers now is it going to keep a customer

spk_0 and motivate them to buy on your carrier next time maybe maybe not you know is it

spk_0 definitely not an expense where you're going to see an immediate calculated return

spk_0 no you're not but it's the little things like this like you know how many how many times

spk_0 Rob have you had somebody come in the flight deck and say hey you guys do you have a trading cards?

spk_0 oh it's it's quite a bit I mean it's almost embarrassing that you know every single time that

spk_0 somebody asked that I don't have anything that I'm like hey me I should put something in my back

spk_0 you know it's the wings you I feel the same way you know it you're given this really sharp thing

spk_0 that we kid and it's not a safe thing to do but then and also you know reaching into your bag to

spk_0 grab what out you know I've gotten fricked myself a couple times just grabbing one you know and

spk_0 and then they're kind of you know plastic and all that and they're and then they cheap

spk_0 pilot don't have them all the time so that's another thing and then the the logbooks would have been

spk_0 great to have too but yeah this is awesome I don't know why the company doesn't get on board with

spk_0 that it's just kind of a it's kind of a it's just a small thing that that is such a great you know way

spk_0 of you know kind of just elevating the experience of you know our younger passengers and

spk_0 well nobody want the company doesn't want to take take you know take that into consideration oh it's

spk_0 not just younger passengers most of the people coming up and asking for trading cards or I mean

spk_0 never had mechanics hit me up as I'm doing my walk around is there a do you guys have any of the

spk_0 trading cards I'm like I got them up it up in the in the flight deck you if you want to come back up

spk_0 with me I'll I'll get you one oh no no no no no but you know yeah everybody wants them we I went to

spk_0 the chief pilots office uh got this was probably a year or so ago if not more and I went hey do

spk_0 you guys have any kid twinks because I liked it I like it's like you guys I like to keep them on me

spk_0 for kids that come up in the cockpit or I see kids in the terminal I actually calm down uh this

spk_0 dad cuz I saw him he had um two with him and two with his wife over kind of somewhere else

spk_0 and the two with him were rambunctious and I grabbed out of my kit bag I was getting food and then

spk_0 then I grabbed out of my kit bag I was like hey like do you do you mind for a second then he's like no

spk_0 no no so I pulled out two wings and I got down to their level I handed it to him I'm like hey

spk_0 I'm gonna give you guys these wings but in order to wear these wings and wear them proud you have to

spk_0 be respectful you have to listen to your dad you have to you know stand in line you have to you know

spk_0 do all the things and you know the kids took them and like instantly like you know straightened up

spk_0 and we're like okay cool we'll we're pilots now you know what I mean so like um I like to keep

spk_0 them on me for those reasons uh but the chief pilots office said that they're no longer producing

spk_0 them while they're producing them they're just no longer ordering them due to budget cuts right and

spk_0 sandpiper we spent a lot of money on a lot of uh direct entry captains that didn't pan out

spk_0 it made a lot of the pilot group really upset because they spent a lot of money

spk_0 for people who weren't working there or who are no longer working there $100,000 plus bonuses

spk_0 and now they're uh you know budget cuts we can't pick up OT we can't get wings we can't do x, y, and z

spk_0 so yeah that's uh that's another story that I don't want to get into

spk_0 yeah and oh my god gentlemen this is amazing we have joining us today someone who hasn't been on

spk_0 the show for probably a year maybe I don't know ladies and gentlemen say hello to Kyle Kyle how

spk_0 long has it been that's been a little while just been uh busy it's been kind of a crazy year and

spk_0 uh had a how to few extra minutes today and wanted to pop in and check in on you guys yeah thank

spk_0 you for doing it let me give you a proper introduction joining us today is an exceptional avian

spk_0 scocketing co-host he is an OSU pistol peat loving grad and ASL linguist at crater and director

spk_0 of aviation business information board on facebook if you're not already on that page following that

spk_0 group you need to it's a cadet pilot mentor new dad again right and a dfw air bus pilot you still

spk_0 what seat are you in still are you still in the right seat come yeah still in the right seat

spk_0 and live in the dream a good quality life I totally get it from his podcast studio where he's enjoying

spk_0 so well this is old this is like from long time ago extra time at home but uh following us uh

spk_0 and joining us from roon oak texas please help me in welcoming to our own Kyle j Kyle

spk_0 doing good congratulations on all the new improvements

spk_0 yep you you as well with uh uh the wedding and uh thank you grads to you Alex and

spk_0 rob kids are off to college and uh sir yeah just been

spk_0 life yeah yeah no joke no joke no on today's show uh Kyle I know uh you're so gracious to uh to join us

spk_0 here we're kind of twans of tail end of this show but we're so happy to have you just to catch you

spk_0 up uh today we talked about rob's medical uh rob kind of uh had an issue with uh just a typical

spk_0 eye exam an ian uh annual exam and they found uh issues with his retinas and he had to lose his

spk_0 medical in order to go get surgery done and he talked about the process of coming back in your medical

spk_0 back and how that process went we also spoke um with uh Terry about schedules and how that works over

spk_0 at trans global um and um how some of those schedules though it's a different operation with

spk_0 Roger uh over at uh a corporate job but the schedules there they're different but they're just

spk_0 as challenging and then uh we also spoke with Alex about his fed ride that he had recently

spk_0 uh over at sandpiper and how that experience went when the checkerman and the FAC were kind of

spk_0 looking at each other kind of having a little debate now which is the intercourse so did I pass

spk_0 so so it's been a great show we've been going now about two hours um but i i want to catch up with

spk_0 you if we could um i see you got the plane back there that from the very first show that we had

spk_0 you on years ago uh still miss it you do yeah yeah do you see it does it operate around uh central

spk_0 Texas there uh no it um it went out to california actually bakersfield california okay uh to one of

spk_0 the uh universities out there i think they're still flying it for the garysonese foundation but uh

spk_0 um i tried actually i actually tried looking it up the other day and the tail numbers blocked

spk_0 oh so yeah i don't know right i know that's tough

spk_0 yeah hard sell drug running could be now with all those names of those fallen soldiers that are

spk_0 beautifully depicted on there but no so so what have you been up to now you you've

spk_0 popping out some kids there and still flying the line yep all kind of kind of i have flown about

spk_0 160 hours for this year so um so we had Connor in February and uh the end of last year before we

spk_0 had Connor i had a bunch of uh sinus issues uh flew maybe 40 hours credit it 40 hours in

spk_0 December got sick twice and uh went through the ranger with uh APA medical uh and uh went to

spk_0 ut south western to get allergy tested and uh did the testing and there wasn't enough spots to

spk_0 weren't the uh the allergy shot so i had to go do a CT scan and uh ended up having a deviated septum

spk_0 and enlarged turbulence um which were part of the nasal cavity so um they were thinking that with

spk_0 the enlarged turbulence um the reason i kept getting sick uh recurng sick and so um sent me to an

spk_0 t doctor now granted when i say what back to back here it's usually three to four weeks out nothing's

spk_0 you know the next week when you when we talk about a doctor's appointment um went to the e and t doctor

spk_0 ut southwest and uh they did a scoped type thing and said yeah we uh we recommend surgery

spk_0 it's like okay so uh got the surgery scheduled with them and it was about three months

spk_0 out and then all of a sudden they wanted a sleep study test before the surgery um at this point I

spk_0 had three doctors told me i needed the sinus surgery so told them i was like gonna do the sleep

spk_0 study test because i'm sleeping fine um especially with the newborn kiddo at this point um and uh we

spk_0 actually found a um e and t doctor and uh north Dallas outside of the ut southwest that uh

spk_0 it's actually a general aviation pilot he has a Columbia 400 and uh talked to him about everything

spk_0 and i was able to get in a surgery earlier with him okay um went to surgery i had a uh sinus infection

spk_0 another sinus infection and then host surgery i've had four sinus infections oh wow since then so um

spk_0 let's see about a month and a half ago i felt maybe about a month ago i felt okay to go back to

spk_0 flying because i was out of currency at that point um got uh did my takeoff of landing sims and uh

spk_0 went and did a cabo xen Lucas turn the next week and it had issues clearing my ugers and my sinus

spk_0 stuff and so i went back on the cyclist went back to the doctor um got another round of antibiotics

spk_0 and uh and then um had two since i'm out on the cyclist um i had to get permission from American to

spk_0 non-rev to do a test flight because the doctor said after the antibiotics up give it about a week

spk_0 and then go do a a you know roundtrip somewhere see if you can get on the airplane so

spk_0 did that it wasn't as bad as it was about three three and a half weeks ago but i was still having some

spk_0 issues so at this point um it's like i'm gonna have to go out on ltd oh yeah um and i'm sure i don't

spk_0 know you guys talked to rob earlier but um so how our contract works now is if you clear sick

spk_0 and you go flying airplane that doesn't include simulator training if you go flying airplane

spk_0 it resets your clock uh back to 60 days so the the ESB time everything that worked the way it was

spk_0 supposed to work work beautifully um and so essentially since i cleared to go do the turn um i'm back

spk_0 on the uh the 68 clock and essentially i'll get a a month's unpaid um which since i'm going out on

spk_0 ltd y'all they'll pay out the rest of this year's vacation and next year's vacation so it's not

spk_0 gonna be uh too much of a the mess out but uh yeah but yeah so just trying to figure out things trying

spk_0 to get better uh my younger sister had the same procedure done probably about three years ago now

spk_0 and she uh after her recently she said that it took her about a year a little year to kind of

spk_0 feel a hundred percent again okay so i'm uh just kind of sitting in limbo i guess the worst case about

spk_0 this is you know it's all the what-ifs and um you know it's i think it's more of a mental game at the

spk_0 end of the day of uh don't know when you're coming back everybody's different you know we have all

spk_0 these tests that they can do but at the end of the day the airplane is the the final test and the

spk_0 final say and uh when i found out uh after the cabo turn that half the way to get another 60 days

spk_0 um kind of uh made a few phone calls to express my concerns going forward um because uh there's

spk_0 no one's in it was to come back um yeah that's kind of been the most frustrating thing out of

spk_0 everything as uh was that point i got some bad information from a third party that deals with

spk_0 the that said otherwise so um but anyway so i guess uh wait on that and then in the meantime i have

spk_0 some foot issues that i'm gonna get addressed while i'm out so i come back hopefully everything is uh

spk_0 by not coming out yep and uh combat when i can come back

spk_0 when i can be ready for an ultra man what nose and lungs and feet all done he'd be ready to go

spk_0 yeah exactly yeah yep well you know it's it's it just goes to prove like how we started this show

spk_0 today is that it doesn't matter how you feel how healthy you are how you know kind of shape

spk_0 you're in you had never know in this industry when something can just pop up out of nowhere

spk_0 and ground you and your your aeromedical is really the most important thing to protect like

spk_0 sometimes you you know you do something stupid bonehead out on the line and maybe you're out on

spk_0 administrative leave until they there's an investigation and okay you know where human beings

spk_0 it happens and that stuff usually you can recuperate from pretty quickly unless it's in like an

spk_0 intentional noncompliance you're just like you don't have the right mindset to be at the controls

spk_0 at this level of the game but that's very very very rare that you know most of the time when people

spk_0 go out it's because of the loss of medical and it's it doesn't matter how healthy you are like how

spk_0 many marathons you run a year that none of that matters something will always be something to ground

spk_0 you and they look at kevin elmore we've had him on the show like four or five times now kevin's

spk_0 a dear friend you know he had two bouts of cancer that ground at him now thank god he's back on

spk_0 the line he's like he's a wide body captain now and really having a great time in life I've got to

spk_0 have him on the show but like he's a case in point where we talked about years ago on this show

spk_0 that you never know don't burn all your sick rob was saying it at the beginning don't burn all

spk_0 your sick keep it in the bank don't be one of these guys who go well I'm cold and sick for a couple

spk_0 weeks of it and cold and sick because then when you need it and you need it most it's not there

spk_0 and you know where are you about burning that sick after you turn 64 okay let's talk about that

spk_0 it's just be sick for a you know go get your knee surgery that you wanted to have done but um

spk_0 but yes and Kyle thank you for sharing that with us um you know I we kind of have talked back and

spk_0 forth a little bit especially online about what you're going through but I had no idea it was that

spk_0 severe that you had to grow back and forth now what I'm curious of and maybe this will help some

spk_0 listening around there what were some of the symptoms that caused you like you said you got sick and

spk_0 you know you had to your blockages and and whatnot sinus issues what were some of the issues that

spk_0 were kind of like red flags for you so I don't want to blame it on COVID but I feel like after

spk_0 getting the COVID vaccine uh my sicknesses were more recurring and they lasted longer so um

spk_0 I don't know if that's just getting older I'm not my 20s anymore no you're very valid in that

spk_0 in that line of reasoning because I can I can tell you and after off-air you and I will have a

spk_0 conversation um my wife uh she does a lot of holistic um practices and and my doctor now is her

spk_0 doctor and she's a she's an MD but a holistic MD and there are treatments you can do

spk_0 for pilots post vaccination that will help minimize some of the effects that the vaccine itself

spk_0 has become an issue with pilots a lot of it to do with inner ear a lot of it to do with lungs

spk_0 so we'll we'll talk afterwards but um yeah I don't uh don't don't be apologetic to try to blame

spk_0 it on that vaccine or or even COVID itself but the vaccine now the FAA uh came out with a report

spk_0 it has not been published it will not go into the media but it's in there it's in their website

spk_0 indicating that pilots that receive the vaccine have a a very high uh potential for early death

spk_0 and it has something to do with circadian rhythms it has something to do with constant elevation

spk_0 oxygen levels in the blood because of elevation and up and down all day long and airplanes

spk_0 it's yeah cabin pressures that's that way that um and to take it all seriously and a lot of

spk_0 western medicine doctors don't really know what to look for they'll prescribe you a medication

spk_0 to mask the symptom that you are feeling they're not gonna get to the cause the causation or rebuild

spk_0 your body to detoxify it from things like mercury and as a pilot I take an iodine tablet every day

spk_0 something I didn't do until about a year ago I take I buy the iodine tablet pop that in there

spk_0 in the morning with all my other supplements that in pills that I take why because we are exposed

spk_0 to radiation more than the flying public that flies maybe two or three times a year we fly

spk_0 two or three legs a day three times four times a week so we are we need to take supplements

spk_0 that and preferably good quality supplements that we're not just peeing out right so they're

spk_0 definitely I can see how the the COVID treatment the vaccine has caused many pilots especially

spk_0 to come up with these symptoms in medical disqualifier so I'm really sorry that you're having to go

spk_0 through this but so you said that that the symptoms were inner ear block not being able to clear

spk_0 that yeah it was just it was regular cold and flu type symptoms and just kept recurring and since

spk_0 the COVID era the frequency of them kept coming and I've always been I've always known to have

spk_0 at least two allergy sign whatever you want to call it infections here with the sinus stuff with

spk_0 allergy stuff and they got to a point where well maybe we need to go maybe I need to go see somebody

spk_0 see what's going on and maybe could have caught it a little sooner but you know you you just try

spk_0 to keep going until you can't and unfortunately I got to point the end of last year of December 24

spk_0 when was at the house for 27 days for the month out sick on the couch and having to breathe out of

spk_0 a breath of breathalyzer type things so you know at that point it's like we need to go figure out

spk_0 what the deal is and once again get get to the the root of the problem and fix the problem because

spk_0 at a point those medications those antibiotics and all that stuff will stop working

spk_0 if you take a bunch of them all the time so that's kind of what I'm at right now so let's

spk_0 let's figure it out let's fix things as they come and go from there yeah I'd rather do it now and

spk_0 then later later in life where you got 25 years left right 31 31 years left well for now because I

spk_0 know that we have this another show 67 67's coming now I add on the table it's on the table

spk_0 will be 75 by the time Alex and I retire Jesus nothing

spk_0 push that auto-pilot button for me sir now Roger I know you got to get going here pretty soon but as

spk_0 our as our resident you know kind of medical knowledge guy okay I don't want to call you an expert

spk_0 but you know you know it's just Mr. former pre-med now dealing under talking about these medical

spk_0 things as we wrap the show here today we might might get a chance to talk about a couple articles but

spk_0 what are your thoughts on this I know that you you've been a opponent for Western medicine and

spk_0 you know staying healthy being athletic and COVID vaccine good stuff are you still thinking that

spk_0 are you still going down that road and what advice do you have for us all not to talk to your doctor

spk_0 that talk to your doctor talk to your medical professional and it's like you know I know that's a

spk_0 canned answer right there that is a canned answer legal department hey legal department that's not

spk_0 he that's not even just legal you know a lot of this stuff is something that you should be talking to

spk_0 your hopefully trusted doctor about there is no one size that's all for anybody yes admittedly

spk_0 I think you guys are simplifying some things and just and COVID has become a scapegoat for a lot of

spk_0 things the vaccine has become a scapegoat for a lot of things the vaccine is not perfect nothing is

spk_0 perfect Western medicine is not perfect holistic medicine is not perfect there is nothing that is

spk_0 perfect and so it's something that you know I think that everybody needs to you know try and make

spk_0 educated decisions for themselves with them and their doctor and that's I mean I feel like I'm

spk_0 just going down kendoor's box here because yeah a whole other show educated decisions

spk_0 educated decisions these days are not educated people think they are but they're not

spk_0 well they get their news on to talk so hey new well and unfortunately news is not even news anymore

spk_0 I mean news is generated for proper for financial purposes I mean it's whatever's going to make them

spk_0 the most money and what is going to get shocking all and it's not news it's not educational it's

spk_0 not helping anybody anymore but that's as far as I'm going to go with that but it's like I say I mean

spk_0 nothing is perfect I am definitely not an expert and so it would be foolish and unfair

spk_0 for me to to hold myself out as one a lot of the information isn't really you know I'm

spk_0 interested I mean listening to Rob's story it's more because I'm interested in it and listening to

spk_0 Kyle's stories more because I'm interested in it I'm the guy that when my wife had had spinal

spk_0 surgery several years ago I was on YouTube finding and believe it or not somebody actually had a

spk_0 video up where I could watch the surgery was going to have because I'm interested in it not because

spk_0 I'm an expert but like I said you know my dad was a family practitioner and so there's a lot of

spk_0 stuff that I got from him nothing is perfect no and we and you're absolutely right we are all

spk_0 very unique individuals and we all everything is going to work differently for everybody and you

spk_0 just have to you have to use a some kind of you know educated and only that feeling to go with

spk_0 the right doctor to go with the right not only that but it's like what ends up being the right

spk_0 thing for one person ends up being the wrong thing for another person I mean you you've got

spk_0 you know being out in the sun well okay we need vitamin D you got to be out in the sun but for that

spk_0 fair that fair skin person that turns into melanoma and it kills them you know it's the exact

spk_0 same thing and yet it's healthy for one person and it is the cause of their death and another and

spk_0 it's something that's completely natural and just and this is very simplistic don't get me wrong

spk_0 just using sunlight perfect point yeah it what what's right for one person can turn out to be

spk_0 wrong for another and everything in moderation and you can't prevent any you can't prevent everything

spk_0 medicine Western medicine cannot prevent everything into some degree it can't prevent a lot of things

spk_0 but the same thing can be said for Eastern medicine I think that Western medicine does discount

spk_0 Eastern medicine a little more than it probably should but neither one is going to be the end all

spk_0 be all for anybody and I think that that's yeah I'd all have to say on that and thank you so much

spk_0 Roger that's I started to put you on the spot but you know as expected you hit the nail on the head

spk_0 thank you very much and and again we are not medical professionals do not take what we say is you know

spk_0 other than please don't our opinion okay I have to read this from legal

spk_0 squawk at it does not condone okay so you know none of the views stories and opinions shared

spk_0 within its pockets are those of our guests and annoying reflective views of our companies will work for

spk_0 or anyone we represent and also this is not a medical or legal advice in any way shape more so there you go

spk_0 Roger thank you so much for that and Alex just brought in a beautiful bundle of joy here on the

spk_0 screen here for those you listening I'm sorry you don't get to see it adorable oh my god goodness

spk_0 three three weeks now five month yesterday five five months one month one month I was here thank you

spk_0 so four weeks goes by fast yeah yeah oh my god well folks I want to wrap up the show here I know

spk_0 and Roger if you got to go just just bail out anytime but I wanted to talk about two things in the

spk_0 news a lot of us on the flight deck have been talking about spirit because after having this huge

spk_0 upturn in the industry for pilots for over the last few years basically if you had a license

spk_0 in a pulse in a medical you get a job anywhere you want it's starting to turn we we shows many shows

spk_0 ago last mid-mid last year we talked about has the music stopped and on our um professional

spk_0 response uh has been at peace out Roger

spk_0 well just say well Roger thanks for being here thank you guys have a good one fly safe thank you

spk_0 so um yeah so we've been watching oh tears are you out too oh no okay um so yeah so we've been

spk_0 watching in the in the news here on the flight day we've been talking about spirit because as we

spk_0 are coming down from the post pandemic uptick in aviation hiring we've start to see things level

spk_0 out I believe Terry it was you that a couple shows ago we were talking about this and you're saying

spk_0 no I don't think it's crashing I think it's just leveling out we're gonna start to see some

spk_0 consistency here with hiring practices and and I I do see that um over at sandpiper I know Alex

spk_0 as a former recruiter you're starting to see a little bit of leveling I don't think there's much

spk_0 hiring going on there are still classes going on but not much very small classes over at legacy

spk_0 airlines it's the same thing um but we're all very curious to see what happens with spirit because

spk_0 spirit is under a very unique circumstance where you know they were trying to merge with frontier

spk_0 that got kicked out and then Jeppe Lucis no we'll buy in and then what the FCC says nah it's not

spk_0 gonna work for us so okay fine and now they're kind of up in the air they they filed bankruptcy

spk_0 right off of the aviation business information board Kyle posted on September 1st a story

spk_0 this is after twice limiting job losses through furlough mitigation leave agreements crafted by

spk_0 alpha or a lpa airline pilots association spirit airline pilots are now bracing for an additional

spk_0 furlough on November 1st the pilots union confirmed management rejected a third FML deal leaving no

spk_0 protections in place for this upcoming round of furlough's spirit is now in bore in broiled in

spk_0 its second bankruptcy this year leaving many allegedly concerned about the potential for liquidation

spk_0 now there's some rumors going out and Kyle thank you for being here because this is perfect that

spk_0 you're here you with your group on Facebook you've been posting airline business articles for

spk_0 years now it's a fantastic group we've always pushed this group on the on the show because it's

spk_0 a plither of information in your industry I think every pilot should be informed if they just show

spk_0 up fly the line go home barbecue hang out with the kids and then show up when they're supposed to

spk_0 show up the next day sure they can make a career out of it but they're not going to be informed

spk_0 and maybe the decisions they make next whether to go to one base or another or maybe change career

spk_0 go to a different airline or whatever is going to be limited to the fact that they don't really have

spk_0 their hand on the pulse of the industry and that's what your page does so it's perfect that you're

spk_0 here today we're talking about hey maybe it's just the executives over at spirit that are driving

spk_0 down stock price and making it look bad because the last time they tried to merge the FCC said

spk_0 nah it's not going to work and now maybe if they drive it down to a liquidation that now the government

spk_0 or the FCC will come in and go okay we don't want all these people out of jobs and unemployment

spk_0 rates to go up maybe now we'll allow some kind of merger or acquisition to happen are you

spk_0 are you kind of seeing this too in that light yes and no what comes to mind with all this is I think

spk_0 they're they're trying to get another investor involved with it and I think we'll know here

spk_0 another six months or so if that actually happens or not but Frontiers already come out and

spk_0 said that they're not interested in merging they're actually going after their routes right now

spk_0 they just announced a few other routes out of their core hub cities so Frontiers not interested

spk_0 the jet blue thing I think there was a bunch of overlap on that to begin with and with that

spk_0 administration at that time that's the reason they got shut down but I think without with all

spk_0 this going on right now I think they're like you say they're trying to drive everything down

spk_0 to come up with another another investor type situation and see however it will get to a point

spk_0 where would it be will it be worth saving is it going to be worth more to liquidate everything

spk_0 because sell everything off and make more money down the stretch don't know time will tell probably

spk_0 know here another six months or so what that what comes out of all this and in the meantime with

spk_0 spirit they do have a lot of pilots I know that are already jump that have been jumping ship to

spk_0 all the legacy carriers across the board so at the end of the day are they going to have crews to

spk_0 fly the fly these airplanes and two or the their aircraft deliveries and if you if you look back Tony

spk_0 the the airplanes at the spirit ordered were with the other engine option that had all sorts of

spk_0 issues with it and as many of you seen they've been parked at the of W they've been parked all over

spk_0 the United States they've been parting those out I do know they did go and they talked to air but

spk_0 they went and talked to airbus about changing out the engine configurations however it was too

spk_0 late at that point to change the engine option on it so that's what you're seeing they're getting

spk_0 a brand new airplane that they can't fly and now they're having to down size to make money which

spk_0 once airlines start doing that it's never a good sign but at the end of the day I think that

spk_0 we'll know here in six months or so if they get another heavy investor type to essentially

spk_0 save the airline yeah yeah so we'll see what happens yeah and I think that that is a part of the

spk_0 reason why a lot of the HR departments around the US anyway have been kind of slowly trickling

spk_0 down their recruitment because if spirit does fold in the near future these are airbus

spk_0 type rated pilots that are more than qualified and the first airline to jump on that will satisfy

spk_0 any future needs almost immediately and so you know you're gonna hire a charter military or

spk_0 regional guy that you have to now train them long-term training on a type certificate on airbus

spk_0 or you're gonna take somebody that's you know that their type certified already so all you gotta do

spk_0 is train them through your long-term program you know they're gonna ask or already they already have

spk_0 the type rating they don't need it they just need to be checkmarked for whoever hired them and

spk_0 so I think that has a lot to do with a little bit of the stagnation it might not be the

spk_0 holy reason but it is definitely is a factor um and I do think I do think too tonny without

spk_0 of that if they do fold it'll be interesting to see what other airlines fight for slot and gate

spk_0 space so like you said those pilots are gonna be on on the street looking for a job um these HR

spk_0 departments are probably gonna scoop them up because with the aircraft coming orders coming in

spk_0 with all the big three right now um they're gonna need people to fly fly those airplanes and fly

spk_0 those routes and uh if the routes get picked up for the everybody now you got an extra segment or two

spk_0 on a new airplane and um what is it we have I think it's six crews per airplane at least on

spk_0 the narrow body at our legacy carrier so that's that's a lot of a lot of pilots over that period

spk_0 time to pick up and uh fly those routes yeah at the same time it was very alarming last month

spk_0 I don't know if Terry if you if you read this or anybody told you but last month for the month of

spk_0 September every single base that had an Airbus F.O. was offered a zero time line at legacy and it kind

spk_0 of most people didn't even realize they they they they skimmed through that company email and they're

spk_0 that affect me. It affects you pay attention um why why are we heavy on F.O. a little heavy

spk_0 we're a little heavy because they're hiring practices numbers were a little different than what

spk_0 we actually the demand was but at every single state of the airline address they're talking about

spk_0 how the demand that's gonna be record setting this summer and this holiday season is gonna be the

spk_0 biggest holiday season and I don't know as a as a left-seater I'm flying the heck out of everything

spk_0 getting reassigned and you know I'd be 12 hour layovers this this generative AI used to optimize

spk_0 schedules has been fatiguing to say the least or at least difficult to keep up and I and last I think

spk_0 last podcast we talked about how my rule is first day home from a trip no power tools and it just

spk_0 you know stay off the ladder uh it's just because they were it's different it's different in the

spk_0 minute I got like I got a bone thrown to me a week ago I got to do a Maui it wasn't the 30 hour

spk_0 Maui but it was a 26 hour Maui and I was like oh my god this this is something I haven't done this

spk_0 since I was an F.O. this is this is nice I'm gonna go walk on the beach this is this is great I'm

spk_0 not exhausted I'm not gonna you know watch the back of my eyeballs for four hours while I sleep

spk_0 get ready to go to work again I'm like so so yeah I think uh there's gonna be a lot of change

spk_0 coming early 2026 yeah so I I wouldn't uh I wouldn't worry that the industry is is slowing down

spk_0 I mean yeah it has slowed down a little bit over the last year or so but look at the retirements

spk_0 right I sent you guys something this morning from Delta and I just did you know real quick math

spk_0 don't do it in public but you know over the next 10 years they're averaging 500 retirements here

spk_0 transglobales averaging over 500 probably closer to 600 retirements per year over the next 10 years

spk_0 I don't know what you guys are doing a legacy but I would imagine it's probably somewhere in the

spk_0 same neighborhood right so that's over the next 10 years 5,000 pilots per each of the three big

spk_0 legacies right so so you've got that you've got all of the growth that's planned you know

spk_0 all three of the the legacies have airplanes on order four growth purposes right

spk_0 transglobal has stated it's pretty public now 500 more new hires by the end of this year

spk_0 2500 next year it's it's gonna continue right spirit has 3,000

spk_0 3,200 pilots from what I was able to pull up okay 3,200 pilots they're gonna

spk_0 go whatever way they can go right I'm sure transglobal will pick up a bunch of them I'm sure they

spk_0 will go to other airlines as well but that's gonna get absorbed pretty quickly right if spirit were

spk_0 to ultimately beat their demise those 3,200 pilots are gonna get spread out pretty quickly and then

spk_0 then what you know we're still hiring everybody's still hiring for growth right I know Delta announced

spk_0 something like 1100 pilots being hired next year something like that so so the hiring is going to

spk_0 continue and that's going to snowball and the region also start hiring again and you know

spk_0 so I wouldn't I wouldn't go crying the sky is falling anytime soon right it's not I

spk_0 I feel mostly the same about what both you guys said except that I think Tony and I have been

spk_0 in the industry for quite a while now and we realize that the airline is a cycle the industry is a

spk_0 cycle and the last downturn was what COVID right yeah well and there's always it's always like a 5-10

spk_0 year cycle and I understand about all the retirements and I get all that and I totally believe that

spk_0 to you and I think hopefully we'll never have the issue but I think that's it's it's it's history

spk_0 is proven there's a cycle and there's something's gonna happen we don't know what it is

spk_0 I think that big is no when it's gonna happen I think that the biggest potential the biggest

spk_0 potential is not if spirit meets its demise it's not like what may happen in retirements or you know

spk_0 mergers and who knows what else is gonna happen I think the biggest potential for stagnation in

spk_0 hiring practices in the United States probably in the next five years will be if as we mentioned

spk_0 earlier just as a tease if I add a passes the age 67 retirement age that is going to now every

spk_0 airline in the industry is going to have to follow suit and rewrite employee contracts for pilots

spk_0 yeah everyone's union contract has to be rewritten and it's not just a staple that you put in there

spk_0 we're talking thousands of pages of legalese that needs to be refined now the question is well

spk_0 are those age 67 pilots able to fly internationally to everywhere I like I like that word you said

spk_0 staple just staple them back to the bottom yeah yeah because that that works out really great every time

spk_0 yeah send them send them now to uh sandpiper that'll be good well that was that that was one of the

spk_0 biggest hurdles here in the US with the big beautiful bill that was passed and so the FAA and ATC

spk_0 they all got their budget marks but the age 67 got thrown out because of that one major contributing

spk_0 factors to that was well you got to rewrite every contract what you can do and then they can't

spk_0 fly internationally well these guys are most of these 64 and a half people are wide body

spk_0 cappons what do you do now we're gonna pay you wide body paid to fly domestic narrow body it's

spk_0 a how would you do that I will tell you exactly what's gonna happen so if 67 gets passed all these

spk_0 pilots 63 64 they're gonna find something medically wrong with them they're gonna go out on LTD

spk_0 until they retire until they're 67 because what is it now for social security with the Medicaid

spk_0 Medicare whatever it is with the government uh this uh insurance stuff they're gonna they're

spk_0 just gonna ride it out and it's gonna be a retirement job at 50% of what they make and uh like

spk_0 you said most of them are wide body cappons making over 500,000 years so that's 250 grand to sit

spk_0 at home and not have to come to work and deal with anything that's exactly what's gonna happen

spk_0 and still get your 401k uh country everything travel beddies everything yep yep so and that's

spk_0 why it's not gonna work the the uh the uh after effect of that uh LTD premiums go up right so so now

spk_0 we're all paying more money for our LTD premiums and yeah and so now these guys I mean they

spk_0 they already do it right they already do it they go out at about age 63 they go out on LTD they'll

spk_0 find something wrong and there are guys there are guys who have legitimate issues right I have no

spk_0 no qualms about that but there are guys who find things right and they've built up their sick banks

spk_0 and and uh we kind of talked about this earlier but at least at trans global you don't get paid out

spk_0 for your sick time right so it's use it or lose it so about 63 you know you get sick you go out uh

spk_0 that turns into extended sick bank that turns into LTD and now we're gonna we're gonna push that

spk_0 out even longer I mean the premiums are gonna go through the roof and it's only gonna hurt

spk_0 the guys who are still around who are still paying those premiums so yeah anyway if you

spk_0 didn't know my stance on it now you do yeah no there's no there's always a bigger picture in consequences

spk_0 and repercussions so you know it's funny I I uh I was talking to um someone recently and they

spk_0 said you know most people the problem it's not a generational thing you know you hear people say

spk_0 or a channel for gen X Gen Z Gen whatever you know what it's every 13 years you're gonna label

spk_0 some group of people you're gonna find whatever it's not that at all it's because of

spk_0 how our society has developed with technology social media online interaction the falseness of what

spk_0 we call now media the 5M it's no longer news everything we talked about today in one way shape

spk_0 it's created a society of young people and a lot of older people I mean I can attest to some people

spk_0 even in my family it's like they have no inter dialogue and the person I was flying with

spk_0 there like you know 80 percent of people in the world don't have an inter dialogue

spk_0 you know what he's talking about and I'm like no like they just they believe anything and everything

spk_0 they don't stop and go wait a minute who's holding the camera on this video like oh my god that guy

spk_0 just walked in on his wife cheating on him and they oh like oh my god this is like I knew

spk_0 believe this who was holding the fucking camera it's fake it's all for clicks and we are suckers we

spk_0 are sheep we're like man going off the cliff here with reality even the news on TV they're going

spk_0 oh look here I show this video and and some of the podcasts that I listen to they break those

spk_0 falseness of the media and I listen to no agenda you know that's the godfather of podcasting is

spk_0 is Adam Curry from you know yeah from MTV you know I listen to no agenda twice a week

spk_0 and it takes up a lot of time but I'm sitting there when I'm driving I'm listening to it when I'm

spk_0 by myself and I could get just a listen to these conversations and they go this is what this is

spk_0 what NBC or this is what CBS played okay and they show like a 10 second audio clip and they go

spk_0 this is the actual clip and they they play the whole five minute clip and you're like holy crap

spk_0 they completely manipulated the whole thing and then my favorite is I recently saw something and

spk_0 it's glad I'm here Putin was being interviewed by a fox anchor and he says you know if if these

spk_0 things are false whatever when saying about you with the America saying about you with this saying

spk_0 why don't you like come out and say no that's not true and and he goes you're kidding right

spk_0 America owns the propaganda media machine not just in the US but around the world all over Europe

spk_0 that stuff is all propagandized by the CIA in America and you stop and think about it and you're like

spk_0 yeah there's a lot of influence every time we do something next thing you know

spk_0 boom Germany's doing something boom France is doing something it's like well wait a minute

spk_0 do you have the same problems well they're just doing what America's doing and so

spk_0 you bring it all down to a comment I don't mean to go off on a tangent but bring it all down to

spk_0 to an aviation podcast and what are you who you're gonna believe what are you gonna listen to

spk_0 you some video that you saw on the internet or some captain you flew it through got his news from

spk_0 some source and I have an internal dialogue do the work what's the source where you come in from

spk_0 who was holding the camera on that video what was it really and the most pilots don't have that

spk_0 issue because we're we're problem solvers we're mission oriented we want to get the mission done

spk_0 and we we do our best because we're trained continuously and most of us naturally have it

spk_0 is that we want to think outside the box we want to we want to solve the problem sometimes we do

spk_0 so much to solve the problem that we're doing other people's jobs how many times have I said on

spk_0 this podcast one ping one ping only for those that don't understand what that is is look it's not my

spk_0 job to call the rampers out I called the ramp one we landed and they said the gates open calls at

spk_0 the top of the ramp okay tell you to see the gates open we're going to spot one three four all right we

spk_0 go to spot one three four we call the ramp ramps is you're clear to the gate from spot one three four

spk_0 to you taxi in and you stop at the gate and right before the gate you look up and the rampers are

spk_0 walking away and you're like what's going on and the F.O. wants to pick up the hand mic right away and

spk_0 call ramp and go hey we need rampers and I always say no please don't do that we could pay by the

spk_0 minute don't do that make sure make sure your suit is a feedback that's the list is go holiday yeah

spk_0 and let's just go home day in obviously but no yeah and we have this in your right Kyle problem is

spk_0 like hotel how many people complain about hotels and I always ask the same thing did you send a hotel

spk_0 debrief well no like so you and about 200 other pilots flight attendants that complained about

spk_0 this hotel it's dirty it's whatever how does the company know are they mine readers you got to

spk_0 send a debrief oh well I I posted it oh oh you posted on social media you think oh okay

spk_0 and even if you tell it straight to a manager's face it goes nowhere paper trail paper trail

spk_0 paper trail documented yep as to be documented yep yep hey you know uh you know a safety a

spk_0 service report is what they call it over I don't know what they call it for it the transglowable but

spk_0 we used to call it pipeline over it yeah that's why they still call it over it

spk_0 higher sandpiper pipeline yeah pipeline used to be at sandpiper they chill it debrief deep deep

spk_0 highly debrief yeah we call it service report what do they call it transglowable

spk_0 like send an email to the report to the cheap pilot about something tears like I know I don't

spk_0 are f-saps but f-saps that's flight related you know where you bitch up line right yeah

spk_0 tears are wide body guy he doesn't have to worry about all that perfect for them all I care about

spk_0 is that true yeah what time is my break in yeah what time do I have to wake you up in the other

spk_0 legacy your line their line it's perfect all it's yeah so submit your reports folks submit your

spk_0 reports because they're not you know come on we're not mine readers but hey we've gone very long

spk_0 today and it's because we had everybody on do you realize that everybody everybody hey we've

spk_0 got the band back together we got the band back together brother hell yeah so folks out there

spk_0 thank you so much for listening to the Squawk Ident podcast giving us the support hopefully we

spk_0 raised some kind of you know discussion with you out on the pipeline and we really hope to get

spk_0 more feedback from you know I know hey we got almost three hours today I might even do a part one

spk_0 part two on this one because yeah it's all good stuff all good stuff all good stuff but I just

spk_0 want to wrap up the show here before we do guys anything you want to shout out to congrats

spk_0 to Alex with his new baby that's the big one right there definitely and congratulations also

spk_0 that to Kyle for his second yes and Kyle that's right yeah and and just a shout out to my friend

spk_0 Angelos restaurant Agro Dolce I believe is it's in Berkeley California it's a fantastic Italian

spk_0 eatery Agro Dolce is one of my favorite places get good so they're an Italian food the whole

spk_0 family is in the industry and they're just fantastic people a good luck to Angela Jr. for your

spk_0 discovery fight hopefully you've taken it I'd love to hear from you and get some pictures on that

spk_0 and if you're out there just listening to these knuckleheads talk about work work work

spk_0 contract I just want to say thank you to all of you out there as well thank you to Rob Terry

spk_0 Alex Roger and Kyle for joining me today we've got the band back together it's amazing

spk_0 please help us by sharing this podcast online and with your friends be sure to subscribe and

spk_0 follow us a squat guide and podcast on whatever podcast platform you're listening on we also

spk_0 love receiving listening feedback as I mentioned you can send us an email or even some audio feedback

spk_0 I'd play it no problem just send it to our website that's aviatortony.com that's alpha victor the

spk_0 number eight Romeo tango oscarnaval reyanky.com there you're going to find audio archives photos from

spk_0 the flight line guest book photo tab and other squat-ident pilot shops and the settlement of

spk_0 stuff you can buy there I don't really see anything from that so if you do it's just for fun

spk_0 and you can also contribute financially to our program right there on our homepage uh

spk_0 facebook youtube instagram users you can find us under the squat-ident podcast search and I just

spk_0 again want to say thank you to all of you for taking the time to listen to these grateful aviators

spk_0 keep the dirty site down out there be safe and take care of each other bye y'all see you

spk_0 see you bye

spk_0 please send somebody here we can't get out of here

spk_0 do you know anything about planes

spk_0 I flew out of the water a long time ago I wouldn't know anything about it

spk_0 can you fly this airplane and land it

spk_0 clear it's clearance graduate graduate what's our vector victor

spk_0 these eat the best

spk_0 we'll make you better

spk_0 you can tell me I'm a dog

spk_0 oh I mean I'm just not sure

spk_0

spk_0 and you fly this plane up Landon. It's an entirely different kind of flying.

spk_0 Do you know what you think about planes?

Flight 152 - Stay Off Ladders

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