Ex-Google Director Reveals the Future of Search: AI Overviews, Zero-Click, and What’s Coming Next

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Welcome to Local SEO Tactics.

spk_0 Very excited today.

spk_0 It's probably one of our biggest guests we've ever had.

spk_0 This is a huge get.

spk_0 We're here today with Brad Weatherall.

spk_0 He is an ex-Google director and currently has two agencies.

spk_0 We're going to be talking today about AI.

spk_0 We're going to be talking about my favorite topic, GBPs.

spk_0 And so again, Brad is the owner of S-Quar Digital and GBP expert.

spk_0 So let's welcome Brad and Brad.

spk_0 Let's hear what you have to say about AI in the future.

spk_0 Yeah, thanks, mind.

spk_0 It's a pleasure to be here.

spk_0 Appreciate you having me.

spk_0 I know that's a pretty broad intro there.

spk_0 Let's hear what you have to say about AI.

spk_0 It's a big intro.

spk_0 And I think maybe the first thing to say about that is AI is changing our lives.

spk_0 In many ways, in the context of local marketing and in the context of how we do search optimization,

spk_0 it's really revolutionizing the strategies that we use because there was a presentation

spk_0 at Google I.O. in May earlier this year where a whole bunch of senior leaders at Google

spk_0 got up on stage.

spk_0 Sundar was there and there was the VP of Search whose name is Elizabeth Reed.

spk_0 I actually worked with Liz directly when I was at Google because she actually used to

spk_0 work on the Google Business Profile and the Reserve with Google products.

spk_0 And so I worked with her quite well.

spk_0 And she was up on stage and she was talking about the future of search.

spk_0 And she used a lot of these kind of like pretty far-reaching statements in terms of what

spk_0 the future of search is going to look like.

spk_0 And I think the biggest thing that I took away from that was when she got up on stage and said

spk_0 that Google is moving beyond information to intelligence.

spk_0 And there was really startling a little bit for me and for many people that have worked

spk_0 at Google.

spk_0 And as you mentioned, I was on a former Google.

spk_0 I ran the Google Business Profile for over a decade as the Director of Operations.

spk_0 And for any Google that you speak to, they will be able to tell you Google's mission statement.

spk_0 And that is to organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful.

spk_0 It's kind of a mouthful.

spk_0 But every Google will be able to tell you that.

spk_0 It's a statement that kind of drill into you to organize the world's information.

spk_0 And what's interesting about Liz getting up on stage and saying those words about going

spk_0 from beyond information to intelligence is that it somewhat changes Google's mission statement.

spk_0 And so it's no longer like Google's thinking about it no longer from the perspective of

spk_0 organising the world's information and making it accessible.

spk_0 It is now moving into a world where it is creating that information and providing that information directly.

spk_0 It's moving away from this concept of 10 blue links, like the original Google, where we're going to find the information for you

spk_0 and we're going to point you in that right direction.

spk_0 It's no longer a search engine.

spk_0 It's now an answer engine.

spk_0 It's providing answers.

spk_0 It's providing information directly.

spk_0 And this is really the impact that AI has had on this industry is really now around like Google's ability to pull this information from various sources of the internet and then create something new out of it and represent that as a direct answer to your question.

spk_0 And I think like informational intent queries was the first thing that AI was going to be able to influence most heavily.

spk_0 And I think the statistic that I recently saw was that like 88% of informational intent queries, you know, so like we're asking a question, trigger that AIO give you directly in search.

spk_0 And what's staggering about that is that whenever the AIO overview is triggered and represented on search, the click through rate of all organic search results drops by 70%.

spk_0 Right. So like it's just it's it's staggering on the impact that providing this information directly is having on traditional search engine optimization and and the number of clicks that people are getting to their websites.

spk_0 And it's really kind of like creating this phenomenon of zero click searches where you know now I think the latest I saw is up to 60% of global Google queries resulted no one clicking on anything.

spk_0 Right. And it's it's it's it's wild how you know Google is now pivoting from this concept of you know finding information and then making it universally accessible and useful right and linking out to these third parties to now being that answer engine and just providing the information in line.

spk_0 So it's it's a really crazy time to be in the digital marketing space. You know, I know AI is revolutionizing every different part of aspects of our lives in various ways.

spk_0 You know, search is no exception to that. And it's it's certainly something that you have to stay on the edge of in order to make sure that you don't get left behind.

spk_0 Yeah, I was listening to a podcast from Neil Patel and he said Google I mean he's long on Google I mean invest while this is an investment advice right but they've had their best quarter ever.

spk_0 And so you know in one sense it's all changing but obviously Google's Google's at the you know forefront of all of it and and we have to adjust right it's our job as marketers to adjust.

spk_0 Yeah, it's it's it's wild you know and I think the it's you know I still have a ton of Google stock right so I like it's great to see that I've got to the stock go up that that works for me.

spk_0 But it's it's just I think the the investment in and the leaning in into this innovation and into the world of AI is really what is the driving force of that confidence that people have in the in the world of AI.

spk_0 And the technology right and then Google leading away and you know I I was still at Google when the chat GPT really blew up right like an open AI really kind of like put themselves on the map and you know it wasn't a huge surprise to Google was has already been they've been working on AI type technology for years you know maybe even decades.

spk_0 But like it kind of created this mainstream now of like okay people understand it people can use it and it really did create a big shake up internally with the acceleration of the investment required to allow consumers and businesses to leverage this technology and so now it's rare to have a conversation inside the walls of Google that don't revolve around some type of AI investment.

spk_0 So it's it's definitely a driving force that's that I think is actually creating a lot of momentum and you know I think Google always has prided itself on leading investments in certain industries and not kind of like becoming stagnant and and being resistant to change.

spk_0 And I don't think AI is any exception of that. What's what's interesting I think about what we're seeing in the search industry is that there's a lot of experimentation going on.

spk_0 And I don't know if people see it unless you're looking for it. But like you know there's the in in the speech that Liz Reid gave at IO she talked about how AI mode right like that new version of search the conversational.

spk_0 Generative search experience is is a is a proving ground right it's it's a way for them to test out new capabilities and see what works and and for capabilities that work well they will move that into the core search experience as Liz referred to it.

spk_0 And so I think that's kind of where if you want to get a preview of what's to come in in the course search experience in traditional search go check out the AI mode because I think that there's a lot of experimentation happening in that space and the Google relies a lot on consumer feedback and consumer usage in order to inform its decision making so look where AI and search is going I don't know if anyone tell you what I'm doing.

spk_0 And so as you they do know they're probably lying to you because I don't actually think Google knows where they're going. It's it's a lot of trial and error you know and and you know it's it's putting out a hypothesis proving that I hypothesis and then leaning into it.

spk_0 And so so there's a lot of experimentation happening right now and and yeah it's it's crazy to watch it because it's moving so fast.

spk_0 Yeah I mean it's like 1996 you know as it relates to the internet right you know it you know it has all this potential people are throwing money at it but you know where it ends up going or you know two different things.

spk_0 And yeah I mean it costs them had some good points and and you know it sounds because he's he's doing his research or whatever but it sounds like you know Google Gemini is is a different LLM or what have you in terms of or anything.

spk_0 AI engine where where it's pulling a lot of it's trying to pull a lot of its information from more of a vetted human source right where some of the most the others are really pulling it you know when you think about the world's biggest database it's Google right I mean really it right and or to some extent whatever's on Amazon servers but you know we can't get at that right.

spk_0 But you know everybody can get at Google's you know everything Google has sort of speak.

spk_0 It's wild to see the the size of the information pool growing with with AI and and how things are adapting and you know I think that I saw this one statistic where you know between q1 of 2023 q1 of 2024.

spk_0 The size of AI generated content on the internet grew 2,800% right and it's it's just like the size of the internet is just growing at an astronomical rate and you know Google is doing its best to try index all of this data and and so it's it's kind of not surprising that like Google will we'll see that trend will watch the exponential growth of data.

spk_0 So in the internet growing and then they're going to do something about it right so so what did they do you know in you know in in in March of 2024 they they changed the algorithm they did a they did a core update to search and they de indexed a whole bunch of what they consider to be AI generated span.

spk_0 And and it was an interesting take because like a lot of businesses would would watch their their web traffic and it was cruising along going up looking great and then as soon as March of 2024 hit it tank.

spk_0 And you know everyone's like what what happened will Google change the rules right they they change and they said all right well all this content that has been has been created it all looks really similar because it's probably all being generated off of of LLMS whether you know whether it be chat GPT or Gemini or complexity or any of these other ones.

spk_0 And it's like it all it's all the same all it's the same so like it's there's nothing unique about it and so Google just de indexed it all just a rid of it and so it's it's interesting because you know I understand the appeal that the the appeal is that it's never been easier to create content for your website or for your services you just go to chat GPT plug in a couple of prompts and give me a thousand words on this and there you go you just got a thousand words plug and play.

spk_0 So unfortunately that that phenomenon didn't last very long you know because it's it's not helpful you know it's not unique Google knows it's not helpful and then it's not unique and so it's it's it's de indexing anything that it feels is just kind of like generated content that isn't unique in the and as rewarding unique perspectives right like you know where you know it turns out we can't do without you know it's not a good thing.

spk_0 It's not a good thing to do humans after all right like because that's the that's the unique perspective that's the the value the interesting ideas and you know like a potential a potential take on a topic.

spk_0 It's hard to get AI to generate that that's where the human human intuition and intelligence really comes into play.

spk_0 And so that's kind of where you know you you you may extract from what I said you know like oh we can't use AI to generate any content for our website anymore because Google de index it right and I'm actually not saying that you know I still use AI to generate a lot of content for the websites that the my agency produces you just can't do it blindly right you you have to inject a unique perspective and unique value.

spk_0 And and so you know when you're when you're working with AI to create content for you you have to work with it right it's it's not a you don't drop in a prompt and then call it a day right like you you drop in a prompt and then you work with it for 30 to 40 minutes I like this I don't like that here is my perspective on this change it right and right from this so you constantly work with it to make it unique and then all the sudden Google's like all right I don't I don't mind that it was written.

spk_0 By AI if if it's answering a question and providing value and and it also it's been hard for Google to really like with with with the growth of the of the internet and all all these websites now producing you know hundreds of pages of of of content and perspectives it's hard for Google to know like if I'm going to go out to the internet and try and answer a question that someone just put in as a prompt in search who do I listen to.

spk_0 Right like there's now you know an exponential growth of data on a particular topic and so who is the authority and so you know you came up with this this concept the acronym of each right like the experience.

spk_0 Like expertise I can't reveal on experience expertise the trust and was yeah authoritativeness man I should have had that sucked into memory I don't know maybe it's too late in the day but yeah experience expertise.

spk_0 So yeah so so when we talk about like we break those down you know like how do we generate authoritativeness how do we show our experience and our expertise how do we build our trustworthiness and and those are kind of like the key influencing factors in having Google make reference of your data versus everyone else's right.

spk_0 It's like you know what why should I trust this Brad weather all block like what how do I know that he is the guy that I should listen to and so it uses this concept of this neural network to kind of pull information about like well what do I know about like who wrote this piece of information and what do I know about that guy and so like oh Brad weather all wrote it I can now say oh Brad was the former director of the Google business profile for 10 years he's now the COO of a swi digital you know

spk_0 he leads the the GBP expert organization is like oh this guy probably knows what he's talking about right and so he builds that authoritativeness and trustworthiness and all of a sudden you may see information that I write now show up in AI in the AI overview because Google has more confidence that it's coming from an authoritative source.

spk_0 So you know that that that's a very simplified view of how to influence AI but the premise and what what businesses are constantly trying to do is they want to be in that in that top section of search right because you know AI is taking up the top of the search the search results page right that's like the very first thing you see on Serp you know like 88% of the time on informational queries and anywhere from like

spk_0 40 to 70% of the time for local intent queries you know like the AI overview shows up first and so you know you want to be in that and how do you get there it's by tuning a lot of this information you know like your website data your content

spk_0 how other people are talking about you you know like whether that be reviews on your Google business profile media mentions through other publications

spk_0 you know there's all these different strategies and you know we've really been pushing the limits with with the GBP experts and a squad digital and really trying to see what is the most effective strategy for getting people in the AI overview

spk_0 and it really does come down to that authoritativeness and trustworthiness and that voice of brand. So there's quite a lot to unpack there you know I think that I could go off in a variety of different directions

spk_0 so please guide me as to like what you think your audience is going to be most interested in here.

spk_0 Well and we're going to you know we're going to go into a part two here so everybody needs to stick around with that because we're really going to dig into that I mean we're going to cover some stuff here in this episode but you know at the end of the day

spk_0 it's about isn't really about human validation and edification in terms of you know in your situation one can kind of there you know there's connections to all of these

spk_0 things that you've done right and and we just have to mindful of that and so you know getting into those tactics of some of those things you know we'll probably dig deeper into part two if that's okay

spk_0 and one of the things I want to kind of cover in our remaining time here for the next 10 minutes is kind of just the bigger if people can get a bigger understanding possibly again we're just speculating where AI is heading

spk_0 you know what the theory is is Gemini is a is a is a more of a what's the term I want to use more of a filtered AI in that all the others are pulling from effectively pulling from Google

spk_0 and the problem with that is is Google is contaminated with you guessed it AI in a sense that now that all AI is is wrong but a lot of it has some hallucination or you know evolution

spk_0 let's just call evolution right so this these last two years it's been great but it's it's kind of been a little bit tainted to some degree is is the theory in that Google is trying to do Gemini in a way that is

spk_0 super curated and validated does that theory kind of ring true with you or do you have any thoughts on that yeah I do yeah it's it's certainly true but as of a point in time you know I think that

spk_0 things keep evolving you know and I think that if you think of the the early stages of Gemini and the before I into the world of creating a large language model you know I think that there was a lot of rapid learning and experimentation happening in that space

spk_0 and you know it reminds me actually of kind of an interesting story you know where you know I was I was at Google leading the GVP team and the one of the the products managers who was working on what now was referred to as the AI overview at the time it was the search generative experience or SGE is what we called it internally

spk_0 they they came with they they scheduled a meeting with me and they they wanted to ask you know like for for this for this AI overview products that we were that they were building

spk_0 they wanted to ask what the businesses reaction would be to to that product you know because that was kind of my role at Google right was to represent businesses on Google that that's really the premise of what the Google business profile is is your business profile on Google

spk_0 and and so she asked me you know like what what are they how are they going to react how are they going to react to this and and I told her I'm like what they're going to ask for three things they're going to say number one how do I get in the AI overview

spk_0 number two how do I get out of the AI overview if they don't want to be there and three how do I change the information that it says about me right like it's the information is wrong I want to fix it

spk_0 and she's like you know Brad they're not going to be able to do any of those things and it's it's it's wild because that's that's just the nature of AI right like it's like we're going to feed AI a whole bunch of data and it makes up its mind on on what is relevant and so I think that's

spk_0 you know getting back to your question in the early days of AI it was pulling in a lot of information it hadn't really thought through this concept of the you know expertise experience

spk_0 authority and trustworthiness type model and it was like it didn't really know what data to extract from and even the model itself was was in its infancy in the fact that it was more prone to hallucination I think that today we're on you know like a

spk_0 Gemini version 2.5 you know I think the AI mode and the AI overview run on a version of that like maybe a proprietary version that has more controls around it so so that implies that if you were to go to Gemini and run a query you're not going to get the exact same thing as if you go to the search experience even though it's running on the same underlying LLN model

spk_0 you know but I think that it's come a long way and you know there was some some people on my team that ended up working for for the original version of Gemini was called BAD I don't know if you remember that name but but the original Gemini was bad and so they were working on that and they were basically just tuning it was was really the best way to explain it is that they were they were getting reports in on like where these with these answers helpful or not and they were

spk_0 really just trying to tune the model to to help eliminate hallucinations and make it more valuable and I think what's what's crazy about the product as it exists today is that it's just ever evolving and it's just going to get better and better and better and it's like the amount of hallucinations is going to reduce the amount of data that it can trust will increase which is actually why for businesses out there

spk_0 now is the time to be investing in AI right like it now is the time to make sure like go into AI mode and do a query on your own business and see what it says about you right because like you want to make sure that it has as much information about your business as possible to actually help you know like tune the way that it represents your business you know like going back to that conversation I had with the PM you know and they said how do I change the information that it says

spk_0 about me it's like they're not going to be able to do that well there is a way to do it but it's not like going into the back end database and changing the what it says it's about changing the environment and what the world knows about you and that then influences what I like says about you so it's a lot harder you know as as market is you know like we used to be able to get away with doing like a little bit of this and a little bit of that nowadays we have to do everything right because it's because it's all all getting

spk_0 sucked in together and all being referenced as as one thing in order for AI to make a decision and to come up with a perspective on who you are and what your brand is so it's um you know that's a long long answer to a to a simple question but you know I believe that the that what you said is correct um but I think it's just ever evolving and I think it's a lot better today than it was a year ago and it'll be a lot better this time next year than it is today

spk_0 so it's just a matter of the mindset of a marathon right this isn't a sprint and but it's in but it's also a situation where you've got to feed the machine something right and and I think you know this is

spk_0 you know it and that's what you feed it and and as business owners we're all we're all busy right it's like oh hey what are we gonna feed AI today right you know we don't have time to spit on you know figured you know I I had this conversation with my SEO director earlier this week and it's like so we're not really building websites for people anymore we're building them for AI right we're building them for machines

spk_0 and I like I don't know if I would go that far right because we are still building I think we're building it for both right like but I think that you would be remiss if you don't start thinking about it from the perspective that you are also building your website for machines right it's not just for people anymore it's for like how do you create content that the machines will find interesting it's easy for them to interpret and understand so that you know if if Google continues this trend

spk_0 and of providing answers instead of results search results you want to make sure that you're in those answers and that you're feeding those answers and so there is a lot of truth to that you know I don't think we're quiet at the point where users don't visit websites I think they do and I think you still need to design websites for people but you also have to design websites for machines and I think that's a big pivot that people are starting to make

spk_0 yeah and I would I would throw out that you know we were designing websites for people right but we are also were designing for Google to to optimize it for for us you obviously and now now we have AI to throw in there right and now we're you know we've got to do all three we somehow got a

spk_0 fear out of way to do that and and that break and that break the system right and and they're all different right which which is crazy right like I mean if you were designing for Google search index then you design around key words you

spk_0 design around links you do back linking right like there's all these strategies for designing around influencing the search index that's not the same as as designing for AI right like

spk_0 designing for AI it's more about brand mentions it's more about answering questions it's showing expertise that there's different angles that you have to have to think about and write from the

spk_0 perspective of in order to influence these different channels so you know and I'm not saying that optimizing for traditional search indexes is not

spk_0 important because it still is it's still very important you have to do both you can't just do one or the other you know and that's just that's like I said it earlier in the

spk_0 in the interview here where it's like it's an interesting time to be in digital marketing right and I I'll double down on that because it's it's tough right it's hard and but also really

spk_0 exciting for the geeks of the world right so because I'm like I know down on it all the time yeah I tell the stuff to my wife and she just like walks away

spk_0 if you found this episode valuable don't forget to like this video subscribe to our channel and hit the

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Ex-Google Director Reveals the Future of Search: AI Overviews, Zero-Click, and What’s Coming Next

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