European Accessibility Act: What It Means and Why It Matters

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Hi and welcome to the hearsay podcast. You're a guide to understanding digital accessibility.

spk_0 We connect the dots between accessibility policy, practice and progress so you can build a digital world

spk_0 that works for everyone. This is hearsay.

spk_0 Hi everyone. Welcome to the hearsay podcast. I'm Matthew Freeman, Director of EU Sales at AudioI.

spk_0 Today we're going to be talking about something that's just around the corner. It's the European

spk_0 Accessibility Act. If you work in the EU or you have customers that are based in the EU,

spk_0 then this is something you need to get on the radar. Let's start with basics. What is EAA?

spk_0 The EAA is a pretty large piece of legislation designed to make sure that all digital products and

spk_0 services provide accessible content and experiences to users with disabilities across the European

spk_0 Union. I think websites, applications, e-ticketing, banking services, ultimately the goal is to provide

spk_0 equal access to all users, but particularly those with disabilities. Now the big question,

spk_0 who needs to comply with the new regulation? We'll break it down further during the show because

spk_0 it's not just EU companies that have to comply. If your business is selling goods or services

spk_0 digitally into the EU, then the chances are that this will apply to you. Here's the biggest

spk_0 thing to be aware of. The deadline is just around the corner. On the day of recording this,

spk_0 we are 39 days away from the deadline, which is the June 28, 2025. After that, organisations that

spk_0 don't meet the requirements could face a variety of penalties, depending on how each EU member state

spk_0 is likely to enforce the new regulation. Ultimately, if you've been putting off improving

spk_0 digital accessibility, this is your wake-up call today. What we're going to do is defer the

spk_0 InstaEAA, what you need to be doing right now to avoid scrambling at the last minute. To help

spk_0 me do that, I've brought on someone who's a bit of a legend in the space, Susanna LeRen. Susanna

spk_0 is the managing director and chair of the FUNCFoundation, who served as the expert to the European

spk_0 Commission and member states during the creation of the web accessibility directive. She currently

spk_0 advises organisations on the EAA and its implications and is irrepresentative in the IAP,

spk_0 so the International Association of Accessibility Professionals. Welcome to Susanna. I'm over the

spk_0 moon to have you here. Thanks for having me and don't mention too much that I'm a dinosaur in this

spk_0 and I'm trying to stay up to date. Fantastic. Well, look, I think to kick things off, it would be

spk_0 really good if we could just give a little bit of background you've been to heavily involved in

spk_0 terms of influencing the European Accessibility Act. I'd love to just learn a little bit more in

spk_0 terms of your involvement and what that's looked like. There's a lot of people involved in getting

spk_0 legislation in place, so I don't want to put myself in too much of a kind of limelight here,

spk_0 but I have been working with the Commission and the Parliament for many years, both in the

spk_0 previous legislation, the web accessibility directive and also now with the Accessibility Act.

spk_0 And I'm kind of wearing a couple of different hats since I'm doing research on

spk_0 user-centric design and I'm also heavily involved in standards and the European standards under

spk_0 the mandate for this legislation and also the current one and I've been in the standard

spk_0 decision field also for more than 20 years. So, and also supporting from the policy perspective,

spk_0 both at the European level and also in the member states. So, if anything goes wrong, it's usually

spk_0 my fault, but if anything goes well, then there's usually somebody else taking that.

spk_0 That's a huge amount of experience, right? It's really nice to have you here. I think the listeners

spk_0 will really learn a lot in terms of to leverage that experience, but hopefully to talk a little bit

spk_0 more in terms of to leverage that to go and make some sort of decisions in terms of how they can

spk_0 make better and more accessible experiences. So, I think I'd really like to love to learn a little

spk_0 bit more from from your perspective, right? You know, why should businesses, both inside and

spk_0 outside the EA, sorry, the European region be, start to be paying attention to the new

spk_0 European Accessibility Act? Well, it's a very ambitious legislation in that it doesn't only cover

spk_0 companies that are headquartered in the EU, but actually anyone in kind of the whole value chain

spk_0 manufacturers, distributors, importers and service providers. So, anyone that is doing business in

spk_0 the EU and who are selling the number of certain products and services in scope will be covered by

spk_0 this directive. And it doesn't really matter if you are from the US or someone else,

spk_0 someone else, if you are doing business in the EU, then this may apply to you. So, therefore,

spk_0 I think it's important that people pay attention. And you said it is a regulation that's not entirely

spk_0 true. It's a directive. We have different kinds of legislation at EU level and a regulation is

spk_0 like GDPR. That is a one size fits all. So, it's the same in every member state, a directive, which is

spk_0 both the Web Accessibility Directive and the European Accessibility Act called an Act, but it is

spk_0 a directive just to make things more easy for people. But that means that we have common

spk_0 laws, common requirements at EU level, but then it needs to be transposed into the member states.

spk_0 So, that means that there are some differences in how the enforcement is made and also how the

spk_0 penalties are provided in the member states. So, it's a little bit more tricky than a regulation.

spk_0 OK. And I'd love to dig into that a little bit further. So, who does the directive apply to in

spk_0 terms of the 28th of June? And what's that going to look like in terms of between the 28th and June

spk_0 and 2030? What changes are going to be? So, I think that on the 29th of June, we will all wake up

spk_0 and everything will be accessible, but maybe that's not happening. But so, there is a long list of

spk_0 products and services that are in scope. So, computers, smartphones, ebooks, e readers,

spk_0 self-service terminals that are connected to some of the services. We have the banking consumer banking

spk_0 and e-commerce. So, a lot of things, but everything that is connected to consumers. So, it's not

spk_0 business to business, but business to consumer. That is important to remember. All of these

spk_0 and also TV broadcast and on-demand TV are covered. So, anyone providing products and services

spk_0 within those specific sectors are covered by this. And then again, it doesn't matter if you are,

spk_0 I mean, if you are the economic operator, so no matter if you are producing it, developing it,

spk_0 designing it or just providing it to the market, then you are still covered by this legislation.

spk_0 And there is a lot of discussions around the grace periods, but really the vast majority

spk_0 of economic operators are covered from June, from this June. It's only if you have a service contract

spk_0 with the consumer that you have agreed before the 28th of June, then of course, you can deliver

spk_0 that service after the law entered into place. But I don't know how many consumers have

spk_0 agreements or contracts with their service providers for five years, but there's a possibility to

spk_0 continue to deliver on that service contract for five years. And also, if the service is using

spk_0 a product, so for example, a streaming service that is using a TV set-top box or something similar,

spk_0 so a product that is used to deliver the service, then as long as the service is compliant, then the

spk_0 product provided it was legal before this law entered into force, then you may continue to use

spk_0 that product for another five years, so until 2030. Those are very specific cases, and then there

spk_0 is an option for the member states if they would like to offer the opportunity for self-service

spk_0 terminals to be used until the end of their economic life, so not to throw them out when there's

spk_0 still well-working. So if they were legal before the 28th of June, they can still be on the market

spk_0 for up to 20 years as long as they are working. And there is also a grace period for emergency

spk_0 communication, also an opt-in or opt-out for member states that they can offer a grace period until

spk_0 2022, for the emergency services. So that is actually calling what is 1-1-2 in Europe, so 9-1-1 in the US,

spk_0 those kind of emergency calls also need to be accessible, but because this has,

spk_0 we've had some problems with implementing a real-time text and those things, so there is

spk_0 a possibility to have a grace period there as well over two years. But I mean these are very,

spk_0 very specific cases, all the consumer banking, all the e-books, all the e-commerce, all the computers,

spk_0 and all of that, they all need to comply on the 28th of June this year.

spk_0 And thank you so much for sharing that. I think that's really insightful, and I think a lot of

spk_0 stakeholders will find that really, really useful. I think I was keen to get your perspective and

spk_0 dig a little bit into especially around e-commerce businesses. All businesses are going to be

spk_0 ultimately covered from the enterprise through to mid-market SMBs. But obviously these businesses

spk_0 have a lot of different levels of resource and different levels of knowledge internally. Do you

spk_0 have any advice for businesses on the smaller side of things or how they should approach

spk_0 you compared to larger enterprises where they have third-party agencies, big development resources?

spk_0 It's quite a tangible difference, so I'm just curious from your perspective how you think about

spk_0 that given the different sizes. Yeah, I think it's a good point and according to I don't have

spk_0 scientific proof of this, but I think the larger organizations are already quite well prepared

spk_0 because they usually have a compliance officer or a whole legal team so they have known about

spk_0 this for a long time. And we really see small and medium-sized companies and the smaller ones

spk_0 waking up to something that they have never heard about before. So it's definitely more challenging

spk_0 for them, I would say. So I think not panicking is a good thing and starting to see what you can do

spk_0 for free. If you don't have the resources, there's a lot of resources out there, especially if you're

spk_0 English speaking. So from W3C and also the standards, European standards are also free of charge,

spk_0 and you can also join the International Association of Accessibility Professionals to get the

spk_0 membership, to have a community to ask, and of course, involve users in everything you do. So I

spk_0 think there's a lot of things you can do to raise awareness and kind of try to raise your

spk_0 competence internally and just starting somewhere, I think it's important because you will not be able

spk_0 to fix everything if you are new to this. So try to make a list of things you need to do and don't

spk_0 bring in my years is that many companies they do an audit or a test and then they do training and

spk_0 then they go, okay, bang, we did accessibility and now we're fine and now next year we will do

spk_0 gender issues or we can do something else. And that's not really how it works. I think all

spk_0 organizations who succeed with accessibility is kind of internalizing it, building it into

spk_0 their procedures or workflow. So I think that is an important thing, but that's easier said than

spk_0 if you're new to it and a small organization, of course. So I would say get a friend, get out there,

spk_0 get into LinkedIn or Slack or places where people share knowledge and try to meet with other people

spk_0 like mine did. There's a lot of good information out there. So I think it's not necessary to buy

spk_0 super expensive consultancy work from day one at least. And then I need to say that micro

spk_0 enterprises that provide services they are exempt from the legislation. Fantastic. Fantastic.

spk_0 I say to to everyone I speak about accessibility, accessibility is a journey, it's not a destination

spk_0 right. It's all about shifting left and really trying to embed accessibility from the ground up.

spk_0 So I think that's really interesting. So again, I'd love to get your sort of perspective in terms of

spk_0 for those organizations that don't comply, what is the potential risk? What does that look like?

spk_0 And how is that going to vary, I guess, between the different member states?

spk_0 It varies a lot. So the enforcement is made at national level and that means that in every member

spk_0 state, one up to 10 or maybe even more competent authorities are selected by the member state to do

spk_0 the market surveillance. And that is usually pointed out in sectors. So if there is this

spk_0 financial surveillance authority already looking into banking and financial institutes, they will

spk_0 probably also do the surveillance or consumer banking for the EAA. And if you have a telecoms

spk_0 regulator, they will probably get the responsibility for the telecom part. So that is done in most of

spk_0 the member states in some of the smaller ones. They have instead appointed the same agency as

spk_0 is doing the monitoring for the web accessibility directive or they have appointed one or maybe

spk_0 only two, one for products and one for services. But in most countries, there are a handful of

spk_0 regulators that is going to do surveillance. And they are going to do proactive surveillance,

spk_0 really doing monitoring and then also reacting to complaints. So and there are a wide range of

spk_0 penalties and that it works different in all different countries. This is where a directive is

spk_0 good for the member state because they can write a law that is following their traditions and

spk_0 their history and it fits into their legal framework, which is positive for an accessibility

spk_0 expert that needs to remember everything and all different members states, this big or a big

spk_0 company that sells to all the members states, this becomes, oh my god, do I need really need to know

spk_0 all of this? But of course, it's coordinated. It's not like you need to be in contact with 27

spk_0 different regulators or 57 or something. That's not the case. If you are claiming this proportionate

spk_0 burden or fundamental alteration, you're supposed to let the competent authorities know on beforehand

spk_0 and also keep the documentation. So if they ask for it, you have to have the assessment ready for

spk_0 them to look into. But I would say instead of looking at how much can we, what's the penalty in

spk_0 Spain compared to Germany? Maybe interesting, but I mean try not to be caught instead. I think

spk_0 that is better. And I would really recommend to be proactive and ask the regulator because

spk_0 this may, to US people, this may sound like a joke, but they are there to help. The goal is not to

spk_0 find and get people into jail and all of that. That is not the intention. The intention is for

spk_0 the competent authority to support the economic operators to become accessible if they are not

spk_0 accessible at this point. And they are not going to just put a fine on you from the first day.

spk_0 They are definitely going to first approach you. Let you know what the problem is. Give you a

spk_0 reasonable time frame to fix it and so on and so forth. And I think the only people who, or the

spk_0 only organizations who need to be kind of scared of the penalties are the ones that do not care or do not

spk_0 listen because it's also in the act that the economic operators, they must work together with

spk_0 collaborate with the regulators. So that is expected from you. If they ask you of something or if

spk_0 they want to make contact, then you are supposed to talk to them. And if you do that, I think you can

spk_0 walk away in a nice way. And of course you need to do some work, but it's only if you kind of

spk_0 don't want to hear this. That is when this is going to get really kind of bloody, I think.

spk_0 I think that's it. I think that's some really good advice, right? Especially about reaching out to

spk_0 the operators. And ultimately, you know, this is about progress. It's about making digital experiences

spk_0 content and code accessible and the web equal. So I think that's really good. I think, you know,

spk_0 given your sort of vast background in the space. And you know, again, from sort of speaking to

spk_0 sort of various customers or companies that are looking to get accessible. One thing that really

spk_0 comes up is, is really around how do we become accessible, right? You know, a lot of people are

spk_0 aware of of WCAG or the web content accessibility guidelines as a concept, but obviously EAA doesn't

spk_0 enforce WCAG, so the references, the pause of concepts. So I think, you know, again, for someone

spk_0 like myself, or it would be really good to really understand actually what are the key differences?

spk_0 And actually how companies can leverage that to approach, it complies within the European

spk_0 accessibility. How many hours do I have to wear? So what we are currently doing in the standard

spk_0 decision groups that are mandated by the Commission to create standards that support organizations

spk_0 is to update three existing European standards and create three new ones. So there will be six

spk_0 standards within the mandate. And then the EPUB standard is outside of that for E-books. And we're

spk_0 also updating a technical report. So there are standards on hardware, on software, on packaging,

spk_0 on understandable information, on the self-service terminals, on the emergency. I mean, all these

spk_0 things that it's so much more than web, I'm amazed that so many people from outside of the U

spk_0 think that the European Accessibility Act has to do with websites. I mean, it's also included,

spk_0 but it's really, if you are selling the products or service in scope, then you have a long list of

spk_0 things that you need to comply to. And having an accessible website is one of them. It's not even

spk_0 the primary thing. So you need to really look outside a WCAG. WCAG is fine, and we will also reference

spk_0 WCAG 2.2, by the way, when the E-N31549 is updated, that is already decided. So you can be absolutely

spk_0 sure that WCAG 2.2 is kind of the web part of what you're doing. But already now, the European

spk_0 standard for ICT accessibility covers 60 more requirements than is referenced in WCAG for websites and

spk_0 apps. So even for your digital environments or digital services, WCAG will not be enough. It will

spk_0 be substantial and good and important, but you will need to go beyond that. So you really need to

spk_0 start looking into the European standards if you want to comply. That said, the standards are

spk_0 voluntary. So in the EU, this is an important difference towards the US. So in the law, we say,

spk_0 who is covered and what is covered, and in the European Accessibility Act, there is an

spk_0 annex. One, where all the requirements are listed. So those are the requirements that you actually

spk_0 need to comply with. You can comply in any way you like. The easier way is of course to use the

spk_0 standards for what is called presumed conformance. That means that the standards are harmonized and

spk_0 published in the European official journal of the European Union. And that means that if you follow

spk_0 those standards, then you can presume that you are compliant. That is easy. But if you would like to

spk_0 comply with the requirements in another way, you're welcome to do so. That is the way that the

spk_0 commission is doing two things. One thing is that the standards keep moving, they keep evolving,

spk_0 and that's why we can be at 2.2, while part of the US legislation is pointing to 2.0 still.

spk_0 So standards are slow, but legislation is even slower. So that is why we have that in two

spk_0 in two different paths. And the other thing is that we open up for innovation. So if you don't find

spk_0 a good way of solving this in the standard, because technology evolves, obviously, then you can

spk_0 do it in another way. As long as you maximize the foreseeable use, you provide information with more

spk_0 than one sensory channel and all of those kind of key issues in the accessibility act, then you can

spk_0 do it in another way. Because who knows what happens in a week, somebody has invented something super

spk_0 cool with AI that none of us knows. And the standardization people cannot foresee everything that

spk_0 is happening in the next couple of years, obviously. So we are kind of standardizing the current

spk_0 situation, and that is why the EU is also keen on fostering innovation in a way that we open up for

spk_0 for other ways of solving this. And I think that is, sometimes it's making businesses crazy,

spk_0 but I think it's generally a good thing. And it's also based on the fact that this legislation

spk_0 is an inner market legislation. The reason this directive actually entered into force in 2019

spk_0 was that it was moved from kind of the social inclusion parts of the policy production and into

spk_0 the inner market. So this legislation has entered into force because the EU wants to make sure that we can

spk_0 sell accessibility solutions across the market and beat the Americans. That's not written anywhere,

spk_0 but that's always the reason for this. But really, it is an inner market directive. And that is,

spk_0 that I think is important. So it's not the idea is not to make life problematic for companies,

spk_0 but rather to open up a bigger market and make sure that we share the solutions to end users with

spk_0 disabilities across all member states. And hopefully also then the prices will lower. Of course,

spk_0 that's the kind of the trickle down effect, hopefully, longer along the road.

spk_0 Amazing. I think that's a really interesting point around innovation and obviously,

spk_0 the way the AI is moving and the way the technology is moving, I think it's brilliant that actually

spk_0 the ability to move alongside that and still be able to be compliant as technology develops.

spk_0 So I think that's really interesting. And one thing I was really curious, I guess a little bit

spk_0 around that point to get a broader perspective on and again, sometimes we see I think in in the market

spk_0 that the companies are approaching accessibility is more of a one-off project. They want to be

spk_0 compliant with the deadline. Obviously, we know accessibility is, it's a journey. It's a journey

spk_0 you get them thinking around that sort of core point. And I guess what are the broader benefits

spk_0 of long-term for companies and accessibility? Well, hopefully, having harmonized standards and

spk_0 the same laws and requirements all over you will hopefully benefit organizations. And I think

spk_0 as long as the requirements are clear and everyone knows what to do, then I think that benefits,

spk_0 that's the idea of standards, at least to also benefit industry. And now at this particular point,

spk_0 I think EU is leading the way. And in a couple of years, it could be Asia or the US again. I mean,

spk_0 the US have been leading for many years, now a little bit behind. So I think and that's, and I like

spk_0 that because we are kind of helping each other and one is in the lead and the other follows and

spk_0 that way we keep evolving. So I think there are benefits, obviously, I mean, what we always say

spk_0 that being accessible means that you have your design in order. It's a trustworthy, you get more

spk_0 clients and all of that. If you are not just interested in not being sued, then it's also the

spk_0 positive things. But I really find the key of this legislation very beautiful. I think there is a

spk_0 very nice way of putting it. And that is what is repeated several times in the act is to maximize

spk_0 the foreseeable use. And I think if I was a developer or a producer or a product or service, I

spk_0 would for sure I would like to maximize the foreseeable use. Of course, I want everyone to be able

spk_0 to use my products. And with the aging population, we have everywhere, but especially in Europe,

spk_0 which really see that in order to make sure that products and services can be used for as many

spk_0 as possible. I mean accessibility and good UX are really and kind of simplicity, understandability,

spk_0 ease of use, all of that. That is extremely important. Otherwise, we exclude not only people with

spk_0 disabilities, but a lot of users. And we see that really, I think on the rise, people who we didn't

spk_0 see as being part of the kind of the vulnerable groups a couple of years ago, they are now completely

spk_0 overwhelmed by the technology because there's too many pin codes and too many passwords and too

spk_0 many updates all the time. And people really struggle to use the technology that should be there

spk_0 to help us. And I think accessibility is just kind of the engine that everything evolves around.

spk_0 And then there's a lot of UX and other things that needs to happen around this as well to support

spk_0 the users. But I think if you turn it around and don't think this is something, oh, we need to do

spk_0 this because it's a law, unless you can stand it on a technical, but really this is just making

spk_0 sense because we want more people to use the product. I think to me, that has always been a much

spk_0 more useful argument than there's a legal requirement and somebody's going to hit you. I've never

spk_0 until now I have never met somebody that jumps out of bed in the morning with a smile saying,

spk_0 oh, today I'm not going to break the law. That's just not the driver for people. So you need to find

spk_0 another driver. And I've always found that the positive driver much more efficient. But that's also

spk_0 why I do not do business in the US because things are completely different there. And I appreciate that.

spk_0 I think for me personally, accessible content, code, accessible experiences are great for everyone.

spk_0 I think you mentioned before in terms of the aging population and the impact it has across the

spk_0 board. I know when I go to restaurants sometimes and the menus are tiny, I'm sat there with the

spk_0 light shining on my iPhone. And I definitely take advantage these days of the ability to leverage

spk_0 some of these components. I think that's such a good point to highlight. So I think what I really

spk_0 love to understand is, I think from what are some of the challenges you've seen in terms of,

spk_0 you know, sort of being part of the sort of commission and sort of bringing it to this point?

spk_0 What are the biggest challenges you've seen in terms of across the sort of broader market?

spk_0 Lack of competence, I would say. There are not enough experts around. And I WAP tries to

spk_0 support that with training and certification. But I think an even bigger problem is that in the

spk_0 generic ICT companies, if you will, people who are not the experts, but who are delivering all the

spk_0 design and everything in ICT, the vast majority of them still get out of university with a degree in

spk_0 something web professional something, never heard of accessibility. So we have both on the supply side

spk_0 and the demand side, honestly, also, I mean, so the buyers also don't know how to do this and that,

spk_0 we just need to fix it and we haven't. And it breaks my heart every time we get new people who

spk_0 want to do internships or things like that. And they come directly out of university or other

spk_0 other education. And they just, you know, they've had maybe an hour or maybe a half a day about

spk_0 accessibility and they know nothing. And as long as we continue doing that, this will just not fly.

spk_0 So I think that is the biggest, the biggest issue we have, definitely. It is something is

spk_0 definitely happening with this legislation. We see new companies popping up in all the markets and

spk_0 a lot of people being certified, being trained and so on. So it's absolutely happening,

spk_0 but it's happening on the expert side. And that means that we will continue, first,

spk_0 develop things that are not accessible. And then we, the experts will come in and remediate,

spk_0 and that is such a kind of backwards way of doing things. Still in 2025, why can't we do it right

spk_0 from the beginning? And the law doesn't really make that happen. So what I would have liked to see

spk_0 was would be that like for websites, so the content management systems, that's where we should put

spk_0 the efforts or the web, the browsers. I mean, so much earlier on than when people start developing

spk_0 their websites and so on. So still think there's a lot to be done, but the lack of expertise is

spk_0 definitely the biggest challenge we have. Yeah, I think you're right. I think accessibility is,

spk_0 is it's like a lift, right? We want to embed accessibility from the ground off. It's the first

spk_0 thing that should go into design systems. It's, it's, yeah, totally totally agree. So, look, I think

spk_0 thanks so much for joining today, Susanna. It's been, it's been great, how many you want. It's been

spk_0 great. So leveraging some of your experience. I think it's going to be really vital. Some of the

spk_0 takeaways from today. So look, June 28 is just a few weeks away, but here's the good news. You still

spk_0 have chance to get your digital content into compliance and reduce the potential risk for fines,

spk_0 negative feedback from users or any potential penalties that are going to come with the new,

spk_0 the new regulations. And well, look, you have to be proactive about it. So if you're ready to get

spk_0 started, you can use our free web accessibility scanner in the episode link today, or you can

spk_0 get in touch with us directly via the website. So thank you very much for joining and we'll see you

spk_0 next time. Your say is produced by Mike Barton, SojournRink and Missed Jensen, edited by Alex

European Accessibility Act: What It Means and Why It Matters

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