Episode 110: LionGlass - Episode Artwork
Technology

Episode 110: LionGlass

In Episode 110 of the Materialism Podcast, hosts Andrew Falkowski and Jared explore the innovative field of LionGlass, a new type of glass developed to reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions i...

Episode 110: LionGlass
Episode 110: LionGlass
Technology • 0:00 / 0:00

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 I would like to describe a field in which little has been done, but in which an enormous
spk_0 amount can be done.
spk_0 This field is not quite the same as the others, and that it will tell us little of fundamental
spk_0 physics, but it will tell us much about the strange phenomena that occurred just below
spk_0 our perception.
spk_0 In contrast to the natural philosophers of the past, the scientists of this field delve
spk_0 into the recesses of nature and show how she works in her hiding places.
spk_0 Their quest is to understand and create the imperceptible.
spk_0 After all, there is plenty of room at the bottom.
spk_0 Hey everybody, welcome to the materialism podcast and exploration of the past, present, and
spk_0 future of material science and engineering.
spk_0 My name is Andrew Falkowski and I'm joined by Jared.
spk_0 Jared has a going.
spk_0 It's going good.
spk_0 You know, summer semester's over now, and I reveled in my two weeks off before getting
spk_0 right back into it.
spk_0 How's the new semester going?
spk_0 I don't actually really know yet because one of the professors is taking the first week
spk_0 off because he's having issues getting the classes recorded.
spk_0 And since I'm remote, I can't see anything if they can't get recorded.
spk_0 He's very nice and he's like working with us on this so I don't blame him at all, but
spk_0 I guess he's having some technological issues.
spk_0 So we're not really sure where the class is going to be like just yet.
spk_0 That's a bummer.
spk_0 Hopefully he can resolve that quickly.
spk_0 I'm not sure.
spk_0 He's probably running out of time.
spk_0 No, he got it.
spk_0 He did get it sorted by now, I think, but I have yet to watch the first class just yet.
spk_0 But I'm excited.
spk_0 It's a space structure class.
spk_0 I've always wanted to do a space structure.
spk_0 It's one I'm very interested in that aspect of it because I think it's obviously a little
spk_0 different than making structures on earth.
spk_0 So I'm excited for that.
spk_0 What about you?
spk_0 What do you been up to?
spk_0 Well, semester started here too.
spk_0 Been dealing with the usual start of the semester things.
spk_0 It's a lot of weird grad school things.
spk_0 You're all done with classes though, right?
spk_0 I am.
spk_0 I just have to take the seminar.
spk_0 Yeah, and then besides that, I've been using baking as a creative outlet.
spk_0 I'm into making Biscotti.
spk_0 I remember we got dinner recently and you were talking that you had made a Biscotti
spk_0 and it wasn't good, but you said it wasn't there yet.
spk_0 I...
spk_0 That is an unspeakable batch.
spk_0 That was batch one.
spk_0 It was terrible.
spk_0 I completely screwed it up and...
spk_0 I was trying to be nice.
spk_0 Not my fault.
spk_0 I was trying to be nice, but yeah.
spk_0 Did say you did bad.
spk_0 The recipe left out a crucial step and that just caused it to...
spk_0 It was a disaster.
spk_0 I have gotten a lot better since and I've really been able to apply some material science
spk_0 knowledge to it too.
spk_0 Well, it is cooking if not material science.
spk_0 Have that episode about chocolate as material science, if you think about it.
spk_0 That was a long time ago.
spk_0 Oh, you know, also speaking of creative outlets, I've been on the 3D printing grind.
spk_0 Which has been a lot of fun.
spk_0 Oh, yeah.
spk_0 Got a resin printer.
spk_0 I think the resin printer and it's messy.
spk_0 It's really, really disgustingly messy.
spk_0 It's like, you're going out of the goo and you got a washer and you got to put it in
spk_0 that LED curing oven thing.
spk_0 The worst part is I had the tank explode, basically.
spk_0 There's a hole that ripped in the bottom and it spilled out and it sort of seals itself
spk_0 back up, obviously, because the light was still flashing.
spk_0 It was still going.
spk_0 So it was like hardening, but enough spilled out.
spk_0 It spilled all in it.
spk_0 So I actually had to take the resin printer completely apart like every part out and
spk_0 do that fun.
spk_0 Is that fun as a mechanical engineer?
spk_0 Oh, yeah.
spk_0 It was fun.
spk_0 I actually really enjoyed it, but the thing was, if I was doing it for fun to learn about
spk_0 it, it would have been awesome.
spk_0 Doing it because it was essentially completely bricked was not as fun.
spk_0 And then I ended up having to like replace a part or two because they were just so disgusting
spk_0 that no amount of cleaning was getting the resin residue off of it.
spk_0 And then my LCD screen, the resin had cooked so thoroughly that when I tried to get it
spk_0 off, check this out.
spk_0 This is crazy.
spk_0 The polarization filter for the LCD screen came off with the resin.
spk_0 And so my screen was fundamentally useless.
spk_0 And so I had to get a new screen.
spk_0 It was an expensive lesson in keeping things clean and also I don't even know what caused
spk_0 the resin or this puncture in my resin tank.
spk_0 That's unfortunate.
spk_0 It sounds like it's up and running again.
spk_0 We had one of those, a couple of them when I was in industry and they were, they were
spk_0 awesome.
spk_0 The resolution that you can get like, and the quality is just much better compared to
spk_0 like an extruder printer.
spk_0 You can make some pretty nice prototype parts.
spk_0 It's night and day when it was working and now that's working again, it was just so
spk_0 incredibly fun.
spk_0 It was just that small down period where admittedly probably my fault, I'm sure I did something
spk_0 wrong, but whatever it is, I fixed everything.
spk_0 I got a little sort down where I was like, they said miserable, but it's really fun.
spk_0 And you know what I ended up having to do to make sure to keep it safe is I got a good
spk_0 glass screen protector for my LCD.
spk_0 That was a nice hard glass.
spk_0 What a great transition, Jared.
spk_0 That's what we're talking about today.
spk_0 Oh really?
spk_0 Indeed, glass is a ubiquitous material.
spk_0 It's all over.
spk_0 In fact, there's several glass items in the room with us right now, but making all this
spk_0 isn't cheap.
spk_0 Glass is made of silica, which has a pretty high melting point and that has a pretty big
spk_0 impact, right?
spk_0 In order to heat glass up to the point where it can melt and be processed and formed
spk_0 into all these different form factors that we have all around us, it takes quite a
spk_0 bit of energy.
spk_0 Not to mention that a lot of the precursors to making common glasses like soda line glass
spk_0 or silica glass are bonded to carbon.
spk_0 And in the process of making that glass undergo a calcining process where that carbon is
spk_0 burned off and forms CO2, the US Environmental Protection Agency estimates that black glass,
spk_0 which is the common glass that's being used for windows and such, is a direct carbon footprint
spk_0 of about 0.5 tons of CO2 per ton of glass manufactured.
spk_0 But a full life cycle analysis found that window glass used in residential building is
spk_0 the equivalent global warming contribution of about 2.1, 2.2 kilograms of CO2 per kilogram
spk_0 produced.
spk_0 Yeah, actually, it's funny.
spk_0 I saw an article that was talking about how people think about building.
spk_0 You think about how much CO2 is produced in steel or concrete or things like that, but
spk_0 glass is something that kind of flies under the radar for a lot of people when it comes
spk_0 to its actual impact on our environment.
spk_0 Yeah, and the split is a little interesting.
spk_0 So about 60 to 80% of that carbon footprint is just from the energy needed to melt it
spk_0 alone while the remaining 20 to 40% is emitted from the decomposition of those precursor
spk_0 materials.
spk_0 Hang.
spk_0 So there's clearly some room for improvement here.
spk_0 Yeah, and so this is where lying glass steps in.
spk_0 This is from John Marrow's group at Penn State University, and they wanted to address
spk_0 this problem by trying to lower that melting point and make a glass that was potentially
spk_0 commercially viable while also cutting emissions group both a reduction in energy and a reduction
spk_0 in the amount of carbon-acious products that have to be used.
spk_0 And recently in July or so, an article came out giving us a little more details about
spk_0 what lying glass is made of and what its properties are.
spk_0 And so we wanted to dive in that.
spk_0 And in the course of that, we discovered some really interesting glass chemistry.
spk_0 And so in this episode, we're going to be walking through some unique aspects of glass
spk_0 chemistry and what makes lying glass so special.
spk_0 I will say that the first thing that caught me about lying glass was that it was called
spk_0 lying glass.
spk_0 I thought maybe it was a joke on gorilla glass at first.
spk_0 I didn't realize that it's the Penn State Penn State's with the lines.
spk_0 The NETS line.
spk_0
spk_0 You know, kind of an embarrassing confession.
spk_0 I don't know what it is about Penn State's logo, but it looks like a shark to me.
spk_0 I don't know.
spk_0 Yeah, I don't, I messed up as something.
spk_0 When I look at it like in a one-second glance, I don't see the line.
spk_0 I don't think that I see that staring at this logo, but I could understand how it could
spk_0 maybe look like the water swirling around in a shark fin is coming out.
spk_0 I think I do see that.
spk_0 I think that their logo is maybe abstract enough for that.
spk_0 Well, it kind of looks like they're updating it.
spk_0 They have one that the line is much clearer.
spk_0 I do see on, I was on the sustainability page.
spk_0 Obviously, I do research for this and I have it open and I can see.
spk_0 Yeah.
spk_0 Yeah, okay.
spk_0 So that's that one.
spk_0 I know.
spk_0 That's what I have.
spk_0 That's what I said.
spk_0 It's just a little too abstract.
spk_0 I can see it actually now that I'm really taking it in.
spk_0 I see the line.
spk_0 See, that's why I said, but if you look at it, it looks like a shark circling in the water.
spk_0 Oh, that's not even how I see it.
spk_0 Oh, interesting.
spk_0 Okay.
spk_0 Well, clearly, you need to look this logo up and give us your thoughts on it.
spk_0 Now, this isn't the first time we've talked about glass on this podcast.
spk_0 You can go back to episode 107 where we sat down with some people from shot to talk about
spk_0 the interesting glass work that they're doing and even further because glass extends beyond
spk_0 just oxides to metals.
spk_0 We, episode 99, we had one on bulk metallic glasses for how you can get metals to behave
spk_0 in glassy ways.
spk_0 But we want to take some time to review some of the basics of glass and expand what we'd
spk_0 covered in these previous episodes.
spk_0 As you may know, if you cool the material fast enough, you can prevent the crystalline
spk_0 ordering of the atoms in the solid, effectively freezing them in an amorphous state similar
spk_0 to a liquid structure.
spk_0 Turns out the rate at which you cool them also affects the degree to which they can locally
spk_0 order and that can change things like the density and the refractive index.
spk_0 If you looked at glass on an atomic scale, you're looking at basically a random network
spk_0 of oxygens that are going to be bonded to different ions, basically chains.
spk_0 Glass compositions are often viewed in terms of network formers, ions that are going to
spk_0 form that network and then network modifiers.
spk_0 These are ions that are going to disrupt that network and change its properties.
spk_0 But it's often a little more complicated than that.
spk_0 A traditional classification system actually has three categories that are based on an
spk_0 ion's field strength divided by its ionic radius.
spk_0 Network formers have a very high field strength.
spk_0 These are going to be things like the ions of silicon, boron, phosphorus, and arsenic
spk_0 bonded to oxygen.
spk_0 Now the network formers are just one small part of this.
spk_0 In some cases, maybe to enhance the processing to maybe lower the melting point or to change
spk_0 its optical properties, we want to change this network.
spk_0 And this is where network modifiers come in.
spk_0 They have a really low field strength and they're things like sodium, potassium, calcium
spk_0 and barium.
spk_0 Network modifiers disrupt this network through the creation of non-bonding oxygens.
spk_0 So when NA2O is added, the O2- will break that OSiO linkage, creating these non-bonding
spk_0 oxygen sites that have like a 1-charge and then they're balanced by a sodium, for example.
spk_0 The more that you add, the shorter these continuous chains get, allowing them to slide
spk_0 past one another, and that's how you could reduce the melting temperature.
spk_0 So could you theoretically make a glass using only network formers?
spk_0 Yes, but you might not want to do that because it'll hurt your process ability.
spk_0 Silicon oxide has a melting temperature of 2,000 degrees Celsius.
spk_0 That's really hot and it would take a lot to actually get up to.
spk_0 Sure.
spk_0 Adding things like sodium or calcium, which are often added to, I mean, so to line
spk_0 glass, for example, a common composition is a silicate with sodium oxide and calcium
spk_0 oxide, lowers that melting temperature down to something like 1,500 Celsius.
spk_0 Still pretty hot, but certainly a lot better.
spk_0 So that's kind of the motivation for why you would add those.
spk_0 The last category are intermediates.
spk_0 These are the chameleons of the glass chemistry world because they can both be a network
spk_0 former and a network modifier depending on the composition of the glass and their local
spk_0 environment.
spk_0 Take aluminum, for example, it wants to typically take on a 3-plus charge.
spk_0 So it can be a network former if it's tetrahedrially coordinated and it can be a network modifier
spk_0 if it's octahedral-accoordinated.
spk_0 And this comes down to the glass composition.
spk_0 So if there's sufficient charge, balance to allow for ALO4- to be present, then this
spk_0 will act as a network former, otherwise it's going to create non-bridgeing oxygens.
spk_0 What makes these really interesting is that it can actually be both simultaneously in
spk_0 different localized regions of the glass.
spk_0 It's also worth noting that the bond strengths will determine the strengthening effect of these
spk_0 network formers as well as the chemical durability of the glass.
spk_0 Aluminum oxide is a much stronger bond strength than zirconium oxide versus iron oxide versus
spk_0 calcium oxide.
spk_0 So these additions also contribute to those macroscopic properties.
spk_0 And chemical durability, for those who don't know, is a materials ability to resist chemical,
spk_0 physical changes, decomposition, things like that when it's exposed to external agents.
spk_0 And this is really important, especially for glass.
spk_0 Because if you think about it, you're constantly likely, if you keep clean, constantly spraying
spk_0 chemicals and water and things on these glass.
spk_0 And so if you have something that negatively interacts with that, you're damaging the glass.
spk_0 So you want to have a high chemical durability so that your glass isn't falling apart after
spk_0 a few years of water and chemicals hitting it.
spk_0 Yeah, I feel like I've seen glasses where it looks like it's been etched away a little
spk_0 bit.
spk_0 And like, harsher chemicals can do that if it's a cheaper glass or maybe it doesn't have
spk_0 that chemical durability.
spk_0 Or maybe they're just using the wrong kind of glass cleaner.
spk_0 Well, I mean, this is why glasses that are used for lab equipment are very different than
spk_0 what's used on windows because it's a much harsher environment that they're dealing with.
spk_0 Now, this whole distinction between network former network modifier and intermediate is
spk_0 traditionally how it's been viewed.
spk_0 But it's considerably more complicated.
spk_0 And these days, there's more of a continuum rather than discrete understanding.
spk_0 This is due to coordination flexibility, composition dependence, processing effects,
spk_0 and even competing interactions between different intermediates.
spk_0 So it's a much more dynamic system than is being presented.
spk_0 But hopefully this is a helpful overview.
spk_0 Before we get into lying glass specifically, it's just worth mentioning the compositions
spk_0 of some common ones like soda lime glass, which is what a lot of black glasses made of,
spk_0 or what windows are largely made of.
spk_0 This is typically going to be made from silica sodium carbonate and calcium carbonate.
spk_0 The carbon is going to get burned off in the process.
spk_0 But you can see that in doing this, we're adding sodium and calcium to try to lower that
spk_0 melting point.
spk_0 And it's around 1500 c versus pure silica is about 2000 c.
spk_0 Or a silicate glass is very similar, except that odds are boron oxide to change the thermal
spk_0 expansion coefficient.
spk_0 These have been silicate based glasses.
spk_0 But the lying glass from John Mara's group does something different in attempt to really
spk_0 bring down that melting temperature.
spk_0 It's a phosphate based class.
spk_0 And people have been aware of phosphate glasses before, right?
spk_0 This isn't like a new invention.
spk_0 Yeah, they're not necessarily brand new.
spk_0 They've been understood and known.
spk_0 But typically their chemical durability and their strength and other properties haven't
spk_0 really been up to par.
spk_0 Right now there's a lot of research on them for nuclear waste containment, but not
spk_0 so much in terms of replacing things like windows.
spk_0 If you look in the literature, you can find plenty of articles about zasp glasses, which
spk_0 are what is zinc, aluminum, silica, phosphate glasses, which is technically the family
spk_0 that this falls under.
spk_0 So in their paper that they put out in July, they present a composition of some glass that's
spk_0 from this larger lying glass family of glasses that they're describing.
spk_0 So let's go through the three categories for the composition of glass then.
spk_0 What are the network formers?
spk_0 Right, so the main one that I mentioned is phosphorus pentoxide.
spk_0 It's a dominant network former.
spk_0 They also have a little bit of silica in there too.
spk_0 And phosphorus pentoxide is very interesting because it takes on a plus five large state.
spk_0 So for its tetrahedra, it actually has a non-bridgeing double bonded oxygen.
spk_0 And then three bridging oxygens.
spk_0 And then depending on the number of modifiers that are present, you can reduce the number
spk_0 of bridging oxygens that are there.
spk_0 These tend to be weaker bonds compared to silica.
spk_0 And so the melting point is definitely lower as a result of this.
spk_0 And it is worth noting when you say man, you really do mean man, it's 40% and the silica
spk_0 on oxide is only 15.7% so it takes up a much larger portion than anything else.
spk_0 So what about the modifiers?
spk_0 Yeah, this tends to have very traditional ones in terms of sodium and calcium.
spk_0 There's also some magnesium oxide thrown in there.
spk_0 I'm not exactly sure.
spk_0 That's an intermediate that can play a number of different roles.
spk_0 But it's likely there to improve the processing window would be my guess.
spk_0 I think where it really gets interesting is in the intermediates.
spk_0 It has two.
spk_0 First, it has alumina that's being added.
spk_0 This is probably being added to mostly strengthen the network and try to probably increase
spk_0 the melting temperature a little bit and improve the chemical durability and strength
spk_0 of the overall glass.
spk_0 Looking at the amount of modifiers that are present, it's potentially shifting alumina
spk_0 into a network former state.
spk_0 The other big one that's being added at 18% is zinc oxide.
spk_0 And zinc oxide is very interesting because it can form a tetrahedra, pentahedra, or octahedra
spk_0 simultaneously.
spk_0 So it can play a lot of different roles.
spk_0 But what's really interesting is there's a study they reference in the paper where under
spk_0 pressure zinc can change its coordination environment, transitioning through basically
spk_0 depolymerization and then repolymerization as a function of the applied pressure.
spk_0 And what this flexibility does that allows glass to accommodate mechanical stress or
spk_0 pressure that's applied to it through like a reversible structural reorganization rather
spk_0 than fracture.
spk_0 Basically, it's an energy absorption mechanism.
spk_0 I was going to say that is huge for glass because obviously glass is famous for it.
spk_0 It's very brittle.
spk_0 Yeah, it's being brittle and cracking.
spk_0 So being able to actually absorb some amount of pressure before that happens is a big deal.
spk_0 Exactly.
spk_0 And, you know, looking at through this composition on that, by no means a glass expert,
spk_0 but especially when you look at it within the literature, a lot of the explanations and
spk_0 the additions to try to improve the performance of phosphate glasses, which were known for
spk_0 being rather poor, make a lot of sense.
spk_0 Okay, so now even idea of the composition and they added a lot of things into it, but
spk_0 the big target that they were going for is lowering the melting point and the forming
spk_0 temperatures.
spk_0 And this is a huge deal.
spk_0 The line glass actually melts at about 1100 degrees Celsius, whereas sodium lime silicate
spk_0 melts at about 1500 degrees Celsius.
spk_0 So it's a big difference.
spk_0 And the reason this matters so much, excluding anything to do with the properties is just
spk_0 the fact that you're saving a lot of energy and in doing so, you're also cutting carbon
spk_0 emissions.
spk_0 I think it's very funny.
spk_0 They kind of focus on the carbon emissions side, but I was like, also, if you think about
spk_0 it, you're saving a lot of money because every time you don't use energy, that's a lower
spk_0 energy bill.
spk_0 And then also your furnaces don't have to be as good.
spk_0 They don't have to get as hot.
spk_0 They don't get as much thermal stress on them like across the board.
spk_0 I don't know how expensive it is to get the components, but at least on the heating
spk_0 side, you do save some money.
spk_0 Yeah, potentially a huge win if it can be scaled up.
spk_0 The other thing is they mention in their article, the ability to source a number of the
spk_0 intermediates and the modifiers in non-carbonatious forms.
spk_0 So rather than using sodium carbonator, calcium carbonate, they can actually get them bonded
spk_0 to a phosphate and add things together through there.
spk_0 I'm not sure what the cost difference is.
spk_0 It's always really hard to determine with these because economies of scale with the existing
spk_0 glass industry kind of obfuscate the true cost of things relative to one another, but
spk_0 that could also potentially lower carbon emissions through the precursors.
spk_0 Yeah, obviously that's so important because normally when it gets heated up, they create
spk_0 the CO2 and then also you're saving in the energy, which is CO2.
spk_0 So it does appear to be more environmentally friendly.
spk_0 But melting points, not everything in terms of glass.
spk_0 A lot of people are interested in the formability and the relaxation as it cools down.
spk_0 This is typically going to be looked at in terms of its glass transition temperature.
spk_0 It has a glass transition temperature of about 444 degrees C versus the 570C for soda line glass.
spk_0 So another reduction there.
spk_0 And it has this fragility index of about 36.
spk_0 Fragility is such a strange term for this.
spk_0 Yeah, basically it measures how sharply the viscosity increases as temperature drops towards
spk_0 your glass transition temperature.
spk_0 And it's about 36, which is similar.
spk_0 And basically what this means is that line glass relaxes structurally at a similar rate
spk_0 as soda line glass, but at a lower temperature.
spk_0 Yeah, which is obviously good for people who want to work forming glass or things like that,
spk_0 because it means that they're still getting a similar behavior for glass forming,
spk_0 but at a much lower temperature.
spk_0 What about hardness?
spk_0 So line glass does have a lower indentation hardness than typical glass,
spk_0 which means it probably will scratch easier and it may not be as hard.
spk_0
spk_0 Yeah, and a lot of that's due to those just weaker phosphate bonds.
spk_0 But I guess that's it's sort of a question of use case.
spk_0 You know, if you're not worried about things scratching or hitting it,
spk_0 then it may be worth the savings and energy and also in emissions.
spk_0 Yeah, but remember, we mentioned that it has that zinc oxide.
spk_0 It has a lot of it in there.
spk_0 And zinc has that great ability to change its polymerization and its coordination environment
spk_0 as like an energy dissipation mechanism.
spk_0 And this actually helps it because line glass has like 10 times the crack resistance compared
spk_0 to soda line glass.
spk_0 Even at one kilogram force load, they don't reach like 50% crack initiation.
spk_0 If you look in their paper, they have like their like indentations where they show like they're
spk_0 putting this pyramid indenture into it.
spk_0 And for the soda line glass, you see cracks that are propagating off of it.
spk_0 Yeah, but for the line glass, they don't see any.
spk_0 And in fact, they like they took their indenture to its maximum level and they they weren't able
spk_0 to get a consistent crack formation.
spk_0 So that's interesting.
spk_0 So it almost means that this glass, while it may get a little more banged up,
spk_0 it won't crack or break in the same way.
spk_0 So maybe you'll have a few more scratches and dense in your glass,
spk_0 but you won't have actual cracks ruining the entire glass.
spk_0 The next property is the coefficient of thermal expansion.
spk_0 And obviously, this is kind of an important one if you think about the fact that
spk_0 glasses often used in places that get heat, for example, your windows.
spk_0 So you need to have at least similar, if not better, thermal expansion.
spk_0 Because the last thing you want is your glass swelling up on you because obviously it's meant
spk_0 to sit in these spots that hold the glass pain in.
spk_0 So if it expands, it's not great.
spk_0 And actually, the coefficient of thermal expansion for line glass is lower than soda line
spk_0 when you're below 270 degrees Celsius, which is fine because I don't think there's a lot of
spk_0 use cases for glass above 270 degrees Celsius, unless I guess may be for oven glass.
spk_0 So I don't think it's a huge issue.
spk_0 Okay, but elephant in the room for me is, is it transparent?
spk_0 You know, if this is going to replace windows, yeah, obviously,
spk_0 it needs to be effectively.
spk_0 And it turns out that it is effectively very similar in the visible light range to soda line glass.
spk_0 There's some slight difference, but I don't think human perception could tell.
spk_0 It's one of those things where if it's a negligible difference and you're getting other
spk_0 benefits, then there's no reason not to switch.
spk_0 Yeah, and I mean, this is to say, even though it has phosphates, which can have like a weird
spk_0 connectivity, it's sufficiently connected probably because of the silica and the alumina and maybe
spk_0 the zinc to reduce scattering and maintain that high transparency. The other thing that's
spk_0 really important is finding behavior. What is finding?
spk_0 Just during processing, you can get air bubbles and other sorts of gases that are stuck in it.
spk_0 And so finding is just the process of heating it up just enough so that the viscosity lowers so
spk_0 that bubbles can escape. Okay. And it has a lower finding temperature, meaning that you can do
spk_0 this process at a much lower temperature compared to soda line glass as well.
spk_0 And it's really just because of the lower viscosity for the same temperature range.
spk_0 Yeah. So in a way, there's also a little energy savings in the production of it then too.
spk_0 Not just that else. It stands beyond just the melting, but in the finding as well.
spk_0 I mean, across the board, it obviously it's early. It really does seem like there are a lot of
spk_0 benefits. There are a few drawbacks and things to figure out. And you make a great point about
spk_0 the economy of scale, like we have built the massive industry for years around one specific type of
spk_0 glass and even recycling and other things like that are going to be a new challenge. And they're
spk_0 going to be different than how things are done. But it does seem like it could be a promising
spk_0 type of glass, at least for specific applications for sure.
spk_0 Yeah. Actually from John Marrow himself, we had reached out. He had said,
spk_0 beyond its practical use as a low carbon alternative to traditional soda line silicate glass.
spk_0 His hope was that line glass could capture the public's imagination about what's
spk_0 possible within material science and engineering, especially within the field of glass.
spk_0 And in researching for this episode, I learned a lot more about what could be done with glass.
spk_0 It's more than just silicates. And that there's a lot of really interesting chemistry and
spk_0 physics going on there. And if this became possible much later than the discovery of phosphate
spk_0 classes, what other treasures are awaiting in the chemical world of glasses?
spk_0 You know what a big thought I was having to do is, and this is silly, but for people who want to
spk_0 do like glass farming as a hobby, theoretically, this would create a lower barrier of entry.
spk_0 If the burnus and things don't need to go as hot and things like that, because it means that you
spk_0 could get gear that isn't as expensive. Yeah, possibly. Yeah, I know.
spk_0 The thing is, yeah, possibly all of a sudden, your crack resistance is lower. There's a
spk_0 transfer light weighting potentially reducing the amount and the thickness that you need.
spk_0 Yeah. Well, this has just been a really exciting episode. I feel like we both learned a lot.
spk_0 And I hope, just as John Marrow said, that this inspires more people to consider glass
spk_0 and what's possible within it.
spk_0 If you've been listening to the last couple episodes, you may already be familiar with the
spk_0 American Ceramic Society's Bulletin, but did you know that you can ask so right for the Bulletin?
spk_0 Each Bulletin issue offers exclusive content written by industry experts,
spk_0 thought leaders, and in-depth discussion of market trends and technical insights and extensive
spk_0 coverage of the latest innovations in the ceramic and glass material science space.
spk_0 In writing for acers, you'll work directly with their editor who will help your research and
spk_0 expertise shine, putting your best foot forward. And thank you to the American Ceramic Society for
spk_0 sponsoring this episode. If you are an expert in a glass or ceramic space, consider writing an
spk_0 article for their Bulletin. The Machiazum podcast is also sponsored by materials today.
spk_0 Visit materialscaday.com to stay up to date on the latest happenings in the material science
spk_0 field and read some fantastic articles that they have published. You can also head over to
spk_0 elseavir.com to find out more about their journals, books, conferences, and related programs.
spk_0 As always, thank you for listening to this episode of the materials and podcast. If you have
spk_0 questions or feedback, please send us emails at materials and dot podcast at gmail.com.
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spk_0 We'd like to give a shout out to Alpha Bonn and Colobite for making music for this podcast.
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spk_0 Catch you next time.
spk_0 This is Silke Coffey, the makers of tools, the captors of lightning, the architect, the engineer,
spk_0 the musician, our all beneficiaries of the materials of this world, and are bound only by their
spk_0 imaginations in manipulating those materials.