Technology
Episode 105: What SEO Projects Would We Do with Unlimited Budget
In Episode 105 of 'SEOs, Dad, and Otherwise,' Paul Warren and Ryan Klein explore the imaginative world of SEO projects that could be pursued with unlimited time and budget. They discuss test...
Episode 105: What SEO Projects Would We Do with Unlimited Budget
Technology •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hi, I'm Paul Warren.
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And I'm Ryan Klein. This is another episode of SEOs, Dad, and otherwise.
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Ryan, how you doing on this beautiful Friday morning?
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I'm sick because I ate so much candy. There's so much leftover because the
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trick of treaters didn't come out and the droves I expected. Yeah, I got a
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time off the over too. We didn't, you know, my son, one and a half first Halloween
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where you can walk, you know, last time we just pushed him. Doesn't quite get the
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concept, you know, he's very much like, hey, stranger danger when we go up to the
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front door and he's like, uh, who is this person? I just quite understand how to
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take the candy or that it is candy. Well, we ended up, you know, giving all the
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candy that we did get away to just like a random kid walking down the street
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that we passed. We're like, hey, jackpot buddy, you know, here's like 10 houses
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worth when he look, he's like, he's like, I hate this crap. Airheads are disgusting.
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Well, no way, man, airheads are a solid one. Yeah, I go for all the chocolate
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be stuff. I got a bunch of Snickers minis. I don't know, I think that kids might
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like peanuts nowadays. I don't know. You should just get the black and orange
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candy that doesn't have a label on it, you know, it's the one that everyone hates
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because I miss that. I like the ones where you just grab a handful of
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candy corn and just sort of write the bottom of your your pillow. Yeah, it's
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just like a bowl of candy corn or like the candy pumpkins and you just, uh, just
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take it and you're sweaty little pong. Throw it in your bag. Do you ever have
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like a memory from a long time ago of going up to a house and then having a
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bowl of pennies and then grabbing a, like, a fistful pennies? I do not remember
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anyone giving away pennies. I remember the pennies. You'd have to at least give
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away quarters now or it can be, couldn't be pennies. No, yeah, the quarters
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had to get expensive real quick. We may be nickels. You could do nickels. Yeah,
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nickels is a nice in between. I think, I think that we could keep that in mind
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for next year. Yeah, yeah, the kids are gonna love that house. Yeah, it's
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or some dyes. Here this guy's got nickels. Yay. Well, we got an interesting
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podcast topic today. I'm going to just upon one for us and it's sort of, if
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we have unlimited resources, or really unlimited time, this is the main
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resource and then just sort of undergoing unlimited money, what are the
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SEO projects that we would do personally? Like, well, what, you know, basically
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your wish list, everyone, everything's granted. What do you do in SEO wise? Yeah, I
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like this topic because this is what people, I guess, were I'm doing
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fantasize about it, right? So I'm like, fantasizing about what would be like if I
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had a free time in general. And I found myself just like a week ago being like,
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man, if I just had a few more hours, I would do at x, y, and z, and like, man, I
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can't believe I'm actually fantasizing about this kind of thing. And I feel like
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back in the day, when I say back in the day, maybe eight years ago, we had way
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more time to just like hop on g chat and be like, hey, we're gonna test out these
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DNN PBNs. I'm gonna, you know, nuke this website. I'm gonna try this for this
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website. And maybe it's just fun for us to just secure and think about this
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future or this alternate reality where we can actually do some of these things.
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Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, we work, we work at the same place, both
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very busy. So we don't have time for those those things that we used to do. But I
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guess I'll kick us off. So if I had unlimited time and I would just test
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everything that is black at to the fullest extent to see if it works.
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That's a that's a great start. Yeah, like whatever if any level of spam
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still worked, I want to know, just like how you could do it and how you would
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automate it and like what tools you would just do that. It would be like the
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maximum amount of spamming. I think you stole mine. You guys saw a conversation
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of people and we've been doing this for a long time. And it's the people
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so thrilled. I'm like, well, you don't want to get a manual action. You don't
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want these bad links because you can get in trouble. And it's like, am I doing
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something wrong? Because I've never gotten a manual penalty in my entire life.
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And I like, I really want one. Never ever gotten one in my entire life.
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I've gotten like your site's been hacked and it looks like it's, you know,
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untrustworthy anymore. I've gotten a couple of those. But I've never gotten
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like you like the actual, you know, you log into search console. It's like, you
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got a penalty. That like, so I would do for sure unlimited time resources.
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Get the manual penalty. So what I would do to start, obviously, just I'd
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purchase, well, I haven't limited money. I'd purchase like a really expensive
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to me that's for sale. Like a former company with like one word like like
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palms.com or pennies.com for like a million dollars that has like still legit
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traffic. And I would start nuking it with a lot of links. Yeah. So you would just
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try and get a manual penalty, but at the highest level that you could do it.
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Like for the most authoritative thing, try and get a penalty. Yeah. I'd want it
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to be considered a legitimate website for it to also be matched by a legitimate
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penalty. So I'd start with like a lot of packages, I guess like your typical
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back at oral or you know, whatever warrior form kind of stuff and just buy all
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them, even the ones that have like really bad ratings. And then I guess I'd
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have to do that incrementally, but I'd have to start with like phase one.
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Yeah. So you just keep ramping it up and up and up and up until you were like, I
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got the penalty. This is what it took. It's a kid. Well, I have to imagine where the
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threshold I sincerely feel like where that would be. And I feel like I would have
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to solicit for like porn and gambling kind of links. I don't know. Maybe not how it
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works. I guess I'm just knowing what the threshold is. I think that would be what I want
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to know. Yeah. It's like what that. So that's what I want to know is like what what can
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you still do? What like what? What's the threshold for black cat stuff? But that's it.
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I just want to know. Yeah. It says it reminds me and then now how
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we just passed yesterday about watching like this show or commercial where there's a group
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of teenagers and they're running away from some like masked, you know, killer in the woods
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and the slasher kind of thing and one person trips and then they're like, oh no, going
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with that. I mean, then the guys like looks like the slasher, but then it just keeps going.
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And then you find out later that the slasher keeps on ignoring this person and they're
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like, why are you trying to kill me? Like that's like me with the websites. Yeah. Like
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what's wrong with me? Why don't you want to get me? Yeah. I've often, you know, whenever
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I talk to anyone, so maybe this is bad advice for me. I'm just like, cool. This isn't really
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due manual penalties anymore. But maybe it's just because I've never had one in 15 years.
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Right. Like I've never I don't even know anyone that's gotten one in 15 years. Like personally,
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I don't even. So it's if it's a manual penalty, I guess that's kind of says it all. So I mean,
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I mean, other people get manual penalties because it's a manual like not a person named a manual
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that works at Google, but like someone that is manually checking the authoritative websites
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and looking at the backlink portfolio. It sounds like, yeah, I'm assuming it is a manual spam
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penalty that like you've been reported or they've discovered something that I guess you'd have to
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be so baller at something for them to even look at you. Right? Like dogs, not geese?
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Yeah. Like you got a doggy snuggies. Like you got to be like number one for that and then redirect
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your domain. Yeah. So like that kind of thing. So yeah, I guess that's what I would do is just
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try and improve all of the BS that comes from Google wrong. You know, like all of their like best
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practices and stuff and like just test out like how stupid a lot of it is and how inaccurate a lot of
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it is and just produce case study after case study after case study premium. Well, that works for me.
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I mean, so let's say we get pennies.com and it's a million dollars and it's like the age is like
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50 or 60. It's a legitimate website. It's been around for like 20 years and just doing like the
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lore of some kind of thing where it's like, oh, content. It's got to be X, Y and Z and just like
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unlimited resource unlimited extremely high. I mean, pay to play with links and then you could
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just prove like all day. Hey, this page offers zero value to ranks number one for illegitimate keyword.
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I love to do that. I would love to know that. I think what I if I had unlimited money,
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because we didn't get that far yet. Money. Yeah. I would probably just rebuild some of my favorite
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websites that don't exist anymore. Right. Or they got bought out and are ruined. You know, like
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like a how we remember Buzzfeed. Right. Oh, you rebuild it and it's like,
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lorridays. Yeah, you just make it how it was before. When everyone liked it and then you just
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keep it at that and you don't care if it makes a profit. Well, what I would do is I'd relaunch ebombs
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world. And I mean, I know and make sure to build browsers that are forced to enable like a flash
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and like, yeah, bring flashback completely flash websites. Yeah. Yeah. Make it mandatory.
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Like browsers that re-knowload flash. I'd rebuild geocities. That's a good one too. Ashi
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Yves would be get more traffic. Yeah. Okay. I buy my own old search engine. I think dogpile
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might be available for cheap moving by for, you know, like $10,000 or something. Same. I think
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we're getting we're getting out of hand here. Yeah. I guess this is what we intended.
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I guess now we're just reminiscing about the old internet when it was like better and fun. And
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you had to go on the internet like an actual browser and not your phone. So things are very
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different now. But yeah, I would definitely do that. I think I would test like a lot of content
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stuff to like just really know like where's the cutoff for AI of where it sucks. I'd probably buy
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someone's domain that has been hit by the helpful content update and see if it's even possible to
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get it rankings back like from any other thing, you know, like just build non-stop links to it
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and like see if that like fixes it. I mean a lot of link building. We reinvent the link farms,
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I suppose. Yeah, like Pete, how how effective are pvn still? Are they really? I don't know. Not as much.
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Are they? I guess that's just sweeping generalization. But yeah, if I just have to like answer that
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very briefly, I'd just say not as much. Or do you just need more? Maybe that's it. You're just not
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doing enough pvn. Yeah, I mean, we don't have like a super extensive pvn like we did back in the day,
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but eventually maybe we'll get back to the glory days of having like a hundred and 120. I mean,
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if we're talking about it's a lot more fun to talk about unlimited money and resources than time
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because talking about limited times just depressing because it's not going to ever happen again. But
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just domain squatting is just so awesome to you. Yeah, I hate that. I also just want to do it to
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I just want to do it to people too at the same time because it's been done to me and then I just
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want to be like, yeah, now you know, you know, you know, how it feels. I think maybe I'd revisit some
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of our old business ideas and then actually like put more time into them again because I thought
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some were pretty good. We just didn't have the time to fill them. I thought the one that got the
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little closer to other ones was the DUI aid was like pretty good because we were actually having
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conversations with people. Oh, when we were finding unclaimed business listings. Yeah, and we like,
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you can claim it and then we'll manage it and then we'll just get like leads from it and then
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people seem to be about it but they didn't have time. They're like, ah, it sounds a good idea,
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but I don't really care that much. I think that the Velvet one,
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so to our listeners, we'll fill you in on a couple of these ideas because we're really
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just a matter of the thing. I was thinking that you were about to say Belvita. Belvita?
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Like the little stack bars. We made a, the Velvet is a, I believe it was a drug that there was a
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recall on or there was like a class action. I'll see you around. I don't remember what it did.
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Was it a weight loss or something? It may have been like pre-economic ones. Well, we did
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truvada since right in the belt belt. Yeah, or whatever. It was B-L-B-E-L-V-I-Q from what I
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remember if you want to search that and see what it was all about. Yeah, so we built,
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we bought like Velvet lawsuit or something. We bought a bunch of these drugs that have like these
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large mass torts, right? Like lawsuits, these class action lawsuits and we built a location page
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for every like major city in America and it was like Velvet Glossywood in Orlando, Florida.
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Velvet Glossywood in Miami, Florida for a lot of it, but we built them all at the same time.
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We rolled out like what, 30 or 40,000 pages in like 10,000. Yeah, and you know what, they ranked.
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A lot of them ranked for a bit for a while. Yeah, I don't. For the first, I think for like three
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months, they all ranked pretty well. Like with the original, it was number one. I always love
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when you do it and then they index even though the methodology of actually rolling out the pages
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and then indexing instructional website isn't particularly great, but it kind of just works anyway.
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Yeah, I think if we had done that and then we combined like link building behind it and stuff,
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it would have had authority. Yeah, but we like, they were new domains obviously, so it didn't work.
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But the concept is not any different than what other companies that we know do as a,
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that's what they do for their clients, right? Yeah. So, you know, I think we're just a little bit ahead
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of our time with that one. Well, I mean, that's a great experience. Sorry, experiment in itself,
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because these websites had no age and no authority, right? They're like a zero. And so we roll out
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40,000 pages and then like 80 or 90% with index, but then drop off significantly after a few months.
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So I would do an experiment where I do the same thing, but like a DA 10 and a DA 20, 30, 40, 50,
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and then actually compare like the index rates based on the authority. That would be really cool.
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Just the test out index. I mean, I already kind of know the higher your DA is, the faster you're
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going to get indexed, it's going to stay indexed longer. But once you want it to be quantified,
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once you want to have like, I want to know the probabilities and stuff. I want to know what the
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number is, right? What's the, what do you need to get metric wise? So it definitely did that.
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So I got us back on track. All right. So these are the experiments that we're talking about as
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doing, being able to experiment with indexation, correlative with authority. It's actually,
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to me, fascinating and not the easiest thing to do. Yeah. I think I'd like to put to rest the
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site speed, like issue, like web core vitals, like once and for all. And just be like, this is,
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you don't need to worry that much about it. Like if you're this level metric, which is usually
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probably pretty low, like if you're in the 50s, you're probably fine. Right? Like you don't need to
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spend like this crazy amount of time, like on end. This is a thing that's going on.
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Mobile or desktop or you don't even care about. I mean, I think on desktop, it matters way less.
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I think I'm mobile, it probably matters more for like mobile rankings and stuff. But I still
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think the range of what is acceptable isn't what you think. Like it's not the green, right? Like
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it's probably like, it's still in the red and you're probably okay. And it's like just not as big
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as a ranking factor as like people. So you do, do you believe in diminishing returns? So I don't
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know if I would jump with you. If you're like, oh, it's a 20, it's all good. It's like,
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that doesn't sound good, right? But like 50, I guess is like take it or leave it. But if you're like
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80 and I have done comparisons, we're doing audits like gap analysis. Like well, we have similar
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content and we're similar on on page technical and authority. So maybe a differentiator is like
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for web vitals and we'll look at the competition and they're always like lower than we are. And so
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it's just like the ranking higher. It happens all the time. So I don't, I don't get better at shape
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about yeah, totally not completely. Yeah, I think just from my own experience with again,
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they're very authoritative sites, but they had a lot of technical issues because they're very
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large. And they always had terrible, terrible like site speed, like whatever, right? Like yeah,
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haven't you ran that for like legitimate websites and you're like, oh, bestbuy.com got like a 40,
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like it. Don't you know for like mega brands? And then it's like they have craft corral vitals.
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And it's like I can't fix this even if I want to because of what the requirements to do it and
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the requirements for it to run as a business or like against each other, you know, like you've
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got to have like JavaScript and stuff on there. Like there's a lot of really important stuff.
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Well, you just have to run your own server. Yeah, okay. And you have to be certified in server
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administration. Of course, every SEO does that. That makes perfect. Every SEO even knows how to
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upload the website. So yeah, everything that goes into that. But I so that's what I would want to
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know is like if you're at a certain DA, I don't think it even matters at all. I don't even like
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I don't know the Google cares. They're not going to rank. It's like if you're a major news outlet,
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do you think they're not going to show those news like articles that are breaking the same web
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idols? Yeah, because the core web idols, do you imagine that you dropped up? You're like, where
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where'd my website go? It's like, you didn't pass the core. I don't know what the web core
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idols looks like for Reddit, but I can't imagine it's very good. Well, because like the user
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experience is also trash. And so I don't think they can set that to the level. But you know, it's not
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trash. Evidently, the stock price. Oh, I got it. So this side conversation, I invested heavily in
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Reddit before the last earnings report. And I think it's still early to get in on the stock
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because you invest in options or you just went along on stocks. I just went along on stock. Yeah,
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I think it's so that's the thing is people that aren't FCOs don't realize the benefit that
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Reddit has right now, which is a massive amount of traffic from Google. And it's not going to,
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they've already announced that it's going to, they're going to expand that. Right? So like every
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earnings quarter, they're going to have higher and higher revenue numbers coming in from it.
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I'm going to get I'm going to get call options. Thanks for that. I just exited my gold position.
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So now I have to look for something else. Oh, okay.
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Yeah, but that's and that's investing quarter at SCOs dead and other lies.
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Yeah. So hey, if you're listening out there, it's a good, you know, this is the very rare times that
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SCOs helped me out financially. Yeah, the time when I was some rush went public and then like
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they traded sideways forever. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So any, what else do you got for a,
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well, if I'm limited money, I would actually not experiment SCO. I just put into Reddit.
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That's what we've learned right now. Well, if I'm limited money, I wouldn't need more money.
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As far as experimentation, I mean, what were some of the things that we used to do more manually
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that would be nice to have done at scale? I mean, we were doing a lot of backlink analysis,
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putting together like just, you know, databases of different places for different purposes,
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but that's not really experimentation. That's more like research. Yeah. So what I'd want to know
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is this is a question that we got from Reddit the last time we did one of those episodes and
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it was someone who's who's like, I hacked. And they're like, what can I do to fix the SCO?
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And we were, our advice was to just start over. Yeah. Because I've never seen it. So I would like to know
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that like, is there anything you can do to save a website that's like lost all its rankings from being hacked?
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I mean, what would you do? If you had a lot of resources, then obviously you could just ditch it
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and kind of start again. But yeah, so that's what I'm saying. You can't start again. You have to
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use the same domain. Can you pour enough money and resources in it that it fixes it?
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Yeah. I'm sure at some point you could just like reimagine the website.
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Yeah. But what is that? So how much does it cost for that to happen?
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What's the price point where you'd have to spend to fix this?
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I think we already know it's way more than what it's worth just starting over.
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I mean, you'd have to revamp absolutely everything and you'd have to like,
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almost changed the intent of the website, I feel like. So when cool sees it, it's like,
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oh, this is just like a different website that just has the same make-you-re-all.
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Yeah. Maybe. Let's say you keep it all the same content that was on there before.
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Is there anything that's that's I don't know. That's what I'd like to know.
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Well, you know, it's been a, you know, a couple million dollars on a nice PR campaign.
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You could take kind of bounty on the hacker to come back and then reverse it.
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You know? Yeah. So commit murder?
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Yeah. You'd have to get like, a man that you have to get like,
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private investigators to find the hacker to like undo all the hand he did.
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I wasn't expecting to go down this road, but what we're doing from a, I love it. So I mean,
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oh, I mean, this is what we're talking about. It's a limited time. I guess I would have to track him down.
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Yeah, you just track him down. Yeah. So I just become an assassin. I get my skill level up.
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You mean the first time I got the OSS and yeah, yeah, I make him redo it.
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Okay. Yeah. So what's another burning question that you've always wanted to know?
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Oh, I, one thing I've always wanted to do is just be able to discover some of the metrics that
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don't always exist that are always like in these tools. So I'm a big, so big Michael Lewis fan.
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I was familiar with Michael Lewis. He wrote a plan side and money ball. So money ball. It's about
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fellow named Billy Bean, who was the general manager for the Oakland A's back in the day. And he was like,
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how can I find certain metrics to find, you know, the diamond rough kind of baseball players I can
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pay like nothing, but actually develop them to the point where they're viable baseball players. So
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developed a set set of baseball specific statistics called saber metrics. And I think that there's
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a version that for SEO that's not like always DA or for endomains or traffic, what there's like
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these little metrics that might at all the time in the world, I would have my Ryan Klein SEO metrics
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that I follow specifically because they're out there. Yeah. So you would create a tool that could
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find the micro metrics. So the deals, the real bargain SEOs. Like, well, for like the websites,
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oh, not necessarily, but like, yeah, for like different kinds of links and different kinds of websites,
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perhaps, but I'm talking about like these little like, I don't know, nuanced things,
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where if you take like A, B, and C that a website's doing, that's actually its own metric that you
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should be looking at that you don't. So it's like, let's say, for example, there's a metric where it's
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like stuffing the keywords, alt text and images plus like the line height of text plus the load speed
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of image like these like these little like micro things, right? That went up to actually a viable
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metric that when you look at it across multiple websites, actually, correlates. That would be wild,
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but that would be awesome. I believe that that exists. So like, yeah, you'd be able to compete with
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much larger budget sites and much more authoritative sites if you just hit like this parlay of like
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SEO tactics. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Right path there. It's like these, if they're not like
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hacks, they're just like, there's always maybe these nuanced things. It's not like keyword
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stuff. And so you know, like, Google's just like keyword something. Wow, they're really in keywords.
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It's like, you do a CTA this exact point, yeah, and then it gets this many clicks as a conversion
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rate overall for the traffic. And it looks like that's it. You're speaking my language. It's the ultimate
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the ultimate SEO hack that's based on because the algorithm and all these things are fallible. So
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it's not like a hack, but there's probably like this bizarre weight of certain things that get overlooked
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that if you were to execute properly on them, you would be able to see how it correlates
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to the across multiple websites. Yeah, let's do it. That's on limited time. That's the
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crunch of that. That would be really cool. Yeah, you'd have to like, I don't even know where you
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would get all the data. You have unlimited time. You would be able to figure it out. And they're like,
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wow, how do all your websites like ranked number one? Because I can't tell like what the
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whole you're doing differently. It's like, oh, why I got like the alpha beta gamma, like flow, right?
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I like it. Yeah, you know, I like it. I like it. Yeah, I guess if I had unlimited time, I would just
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just like actually learn how like the new analytics works like G4. Oh, yeah, that would be nice,
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right? Yeah, that would probably be good use of my time. It's just really like that. I'm
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into it. Just learning. Just get a certification. Just learn it. Yeah. I mean, you can have the
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certification. Still not really know it. So, yeah. Yeah, I guess I would, you know, if I was learning
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things or wanting to be more proficient at anything particular, yeah, maybe I'd learn a little
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revisit PHP, see if I could do some wacky stuff. I used to know more when I was doing, you know,
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those kinds of object oriented programming back in the day, but those days were long gone.
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Because again, there's no time to do stuff. Yeah, except for this one. Now we just remember
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this about it. Yeah, well, we could. Yeah. All right. Well, I think we did a good,
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a good job covering this topic. Yeah, I was listening. Whatever way we could. Yeah.
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It was just, yeah, just word salad camera from us about what we do on video. So, yeah, if you're
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maybe you got something from it, maybe not at all. But if you have something that you don't
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work on like that, just let us know. Yeah, hit us up with an email and tell us about it at
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SEOs.net, notalyzeagemo.com. You know, we love listening. We love listening. We love hearing
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from all of our listeners. Hey, maybe you can be on. We're looking for guests for next year.
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Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want to talk to you. We're going to, we're going to take this show on
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the road. We're not going to take it on the road. But we're going to definitely take some,
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some pretty cool guests, I think, and the coming year of 2025. So,
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so with that, thanks all the listeners. Please be sure to like, share, and subscribe anywhere that
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you listen to the podcast. And with that, I'm Paul Warren and I'm Ryan Klein. This has been
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another episode of SEOs, dead and otherwise later. Bye.