EP 531 What Happens When Your Product Actually Changes Lives?

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Welcome to the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast, where we dive into inspiring stories,

spk_0 thrilling adventures, and expert insights from leaders and legends across the Outdoor

spk_0 Adventure community. Whether you're an avid hiker, passionate camper, or adventure traveler,

spk_0 each episode brings you up close and personal with guests who've lived it, explored it,

spk_0 and made it their mission to share their experiences with you.

spk_0 Let's get after it.

spk_0 Welcome back everyone. Today I'm joined by John Salzinger. John's been on the show a few times,

spk_0 and today we're excited to talk about what he's been up to and the new venture in lighting.

spk_0 Welcome back to the show, John.

spk_0 Great to be back, Rick. Good to see you.

spk_0 Yeah, good to see you. Good to talk with you again. I haven't seen you in person in quite a while.

spk_0 I don't do shows much anymore, so...

spk_0 So many people here? Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah, I consider that lucky. Yeah.

spk_0 So let's start with the beginning, way back in the beginning.

spk_0 What sparked that idea for the B Corp you founded and what problem were you most determined to solve?

spk_0 Yeah, so for purpose, for profit, for good, we wanted to ensure that we could create a CPG

spk_0 company that was able to serve all people with the products that we made.

spk_0 So 25 patents in solar lanterns, flashlights, chargers that are portable,

spk_0 environmentally friendly, and had a bit of a wow factor. Those will be made were actually inflatable.

spk_0 Yeah, they were pretty... I remember that first show when you guys came out, they were like

spk_0 almost a talk of the show and they're like, wow, did you see those things over there? Man,

spk_0 they're cool. I still using the day actually.

spk_0 Well, thank you. Yeah, they did last. So, all the way single-use plastics.

spk_0 But just sort of a tool for humans all over the world to be able to uplift themselves.

spk_0 We wanted it to be simple, clean, but also powerful.

spk_0 And at the time, and we were talking about 13 years ago, 14 years ago, we launched.

spk_0 We did the company into an exit, but it was 5 million lives impacted,

spk_0 4 million tons of CO2-averted, 700 NGO relationships. We were in 90-week countries. Everyone

spk_0 from Walmart in retail to REI in retail was important because that for purpose, we were,

spk_0 for profit. So, we had margins that were dealable in retail and that enabled us to reduce the

spk_0 margins to get those lights and power banks to people that needed them at localized pricing. So,

spk_0 we reduced for all of our impact sales. And we had NGOs procuring, but we also had corporations

spk_0 procuring for NGOs, and VIK, and talent. And it really proved out the efficacy of the units,

spk_0 right? And when we were in the outdoor industry, yeah, your light's going to work in Yosemite.

spk_0 Or you can't even wear it as you backyard exactly, right?

spk_0 Yeah. And so, heartwarming stories, tons of beautiful relationships, just a very exciting journey,

spk_0 and the ability to do, not make a choice between profit and purpose, right? To make engine

spk_0 work for purpose was really exciting. It still be a capitalist company.

spk_0 What was the moment in those early days when you realized that this could truly scale world one?

spk_0 I think it was pretty early. I think our first NGO might have been saved the children,

spk_0 our first retail, our was Amazon, and we started, and our first trade show was CES.

spk_0 And it was like 10 deep and 10 wide, 100 people in front of me for like three days. I had no voice

spk_0 that didn't make that. But people were coming up because everything else that CES at the time,

spk_0 you know, it was really interesting, innovative, electronic tech. Yeah.

spk_0 Didn't have the four good purpose element. That really attracted people and realized right away,

spk_0 and then speaking of buyers at retail, we caught the beginning of that swell, which has now turned

spk_0 into a wave, right? People wanting to vote with their purchases. You have two things you can buy,

spk_0 and one is a company that's doing great. It makes you feel better. You're still competing.

spk_0 This is a environment. Why not? Why not better the planet while you're purchasing something for

spk_0 yourself? That's what we offered. And so pretty early on, we had a phenomenal response to the launches.

spk_0 Yeah, it was pretty amazing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What were some of the biggest hurdles you faced,

spk_0 scaling, that kind of global impact. You hit the positive that you ground so popularity,

spk_0 or people recognize the opportunity early, early. Yeah. And in that stage, most businesses don't

spk_0 have the manufacturing side all. They're just kind of like small production runs and things like

spk_0 that. That must have been challenging. Yeah. I mean, we were a startup and we hit every challenge

spk_0 possible. We got a lot of hands in the pot. We had a lot of investors, small investors,

spk_0 angel investors that were phenomenal and appreciated. And then we went to venture and then private

spk_0 equity. There was a lot of people involved. I mean, the company was never over 25 people. So the

spk_0 impact we did for that many people was enormous. Incredible.

spk_0 The burden was pretty tough because you have all these people. And a lot of two

spk_0 our investors credit, a lot of our investors were impact investors. So they were happy with the

spk_0 shareholder reports being focused on impact. But it's still a lot of responsibility, right?

spk_0 So we went through, I think the biggest hurdles for us were sort of environmental,

spk_0 no pun intended. So chip shortage is logistics issues, COVID. And then knockoffs and other brands

spk_0 and sort of that worst form of flattery where someone looks at your idea because we created

spk_0 the solar portable factory. And people would just tweak one thing. And it became a race to the bottom.

spk_0 And a lot of people started to make portable solar lights. A little different than ours,

spk_0 a little cheaper. And for me, that wasn't what it was about. It was about creating a wow factor

spk_0 that people would use to uplift themselves and create value. And so that race to the bottom hurt

spk_0 us, right? Because a lot of consumers as much as they want to buy good products from good companies,

spk_0 also don't want to spend more than they have to. And unfortunately,

spk_0 there's not a lot of control and advertising. And so people could say, I'm a million lumens,

spk_0 five cents for the light or something. And there's not a lot of control anymore. So that sort of

spk_0 thing, because there's so many different areas to sell, it's hard to patrol that. And so those were

spk_0 those were some of the challenges we had. On top of that, there's some large companies out there,

spk_0 right? That also decided to jump into our space really. Again, it's flattering, but hard to

spk_0 compete with their budgets. They had huge pockets. I will add though, the people we work with,

spk_0 our investors, our partners, our buyers, our NGO folks, our consumers, it takes a village.

spk_0 They're the ones that made us get where we could in terms of impact. And it was a collective effort

spk_0 to do what we did. And how did you build that trust and collaboration? That's a wide scale.

spk_0 I mean, your team is just, you guys are just great people. I mean, working with you and talking

spk_0 with you guys that I as I did a trade chosen things, you just really get this sense that, hey,

spk_0 these are these are good guys, you know, and support these guys. What else did you do?

spk_0 Well, I think people who could, on the team, at least, were at the company because of the impact.

spk_0 I think it was 80% of the people we surveyed said they were there because of the impact,

spk_0 whether 20% or not, they're clear, which is totally reasonable. Right. But we, we were able to,

spk_0 we had good customer service. You know, when you're small, you can sort of engage.

spk_0 So, I mean, we responded to every inquiry and we got letters back. I mean, honestly,

spk_0 we're at the end of the day. I think it all goes back to innovation and product. And when you have

spk_0 something that solves a problem for people, it makes life easier, helps them, makes them feel safe.

spk_0 It sort of sells itself. Yeah. And so I think that was, and the innovation around the product,

spk_0 the new category creation, just created growth. You know, it's very hard to compete if you're

spk_0 creating like a new player, a deck of playing cards or something. Yeah, and that category,

spk_0 specifically too, because there's so many gadgets and wizards, wizards and cool things.

spk_0 That's right. Yeah. So this was a useful, yeah,

spk_0 connection for people, I think, and they were able to use it for camping, but they could have

spk_0 also used it, you know, when those are again coming. Right. Right. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah.

spk_0 Is there a personal story that stands out for you if someone whose life was changed by receiving one

spk_0 of those solar lights that's just kind of changed their world? There's probably a bunch of them. Yeah,

spk_0 some of those over there. There's a plan. But I like the fact we worked with a guy named

spk_0 Tickiel Jackson at Project I Am. He was a CNN hero. And when he was growing up, we told his parents,

spk_0 and this was domestic in the US, you know, why, why don't we help people that are homeless that we

spk_0 see on the street all the time? He grew up in the South side of Chicago. Great organization,

spk_0 very independent, but you should look him up because a really inspirational guy. Oh,

spk_0 chicken. I'm not just a little kid anymore. But you know, it's our, and he was so little, I don't know,

spk_0 he was 10. Oh, really? Wow.

spk_0 A little, a little. And he gave out like tens of thousands of blessing bags, including our light.

spk_0 But the idea that this could address or not address, but help those who were homeless.

spk_0 And that he was such an authentic localized partner. You know, those stories were really amazing.

spk_0 I thought. Yeah. I think he was able to take our light and inspire tons of people. It wasn't always

spk_0 the light itself. It was what is a light enabled to happen. So,

spk_0 story, internationally, Jamie Bechtel of a new course. She was an ex-quentin global initiative.

spk_0 And then she she worked in her new organization in Tanzania, Kenya, and handed out the lights.

spk_0 And got really close to the elders. It was sort of a entrepreneurship program for one,

spk_0 for the women in the communities. And she got so close with the elders that it broke up

spk_0 these two warring factions. They were both getting lights. And then they all of a sudden,

spk_0 they were doing business together. And you know, all those colonialized lines that were drawn.

spk_0 We broke through that too. So there's so many stories. You know, there's letters that came from

spk_0 elderly people that were stuck. And they said the light penned it, you know, wrote a letter and said

spk_0 the light saved their life. But I mean, it's just on and on kids that cried because, you know,

spk_0 they were able to read and write at home without harvesting. I mean, the list goes on.

spk_0 I can imagine. I can imagine. But every one of those is a person, right? So when we say

spk_0 we have a lot of people in lives, I mean, it's you can't even really, you can't really get

spk_0 you hit around them. That's a big number. Yeah. You just can't get you hit around it.

spk_0 Every one of those numbers is a story, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's all right. Of everyone on our team

spk_0 and what we were able to do. Yeah. That's very cool. And your company earned a B Corp score of 140.5,

spk_0 which I don't know much about that, but it's pretty remarkable. What practices or values

spk_0 most contributed to hitting home at that level? Yeah. So not my words, they called us a pioneer.

spk_0 I know there was also Ben and Jerry's and Patagonia before us, but they were the best.

spk_0 But I took that as a real big compliment. Yeah. It was the integrated model. So a consumer could buy

spk_0 something and they were doing good right away. They were helping us localize pricing for

spk_0 people that needed it. And I think the way we told our stories and the way we shared. So

spk_0 here's a way to sort of think about it. A person buys a light, $50, a light goes to someone for $10.

spk_0 And that NGO now gets to talk about that. Then we talk about that on social. And now that NGO gets more

spk_0 folks that are aware of what they're doing. And they take our audience and maybe they're donating

spk_0 to the NGO. And it just becomes this beautiful cycle between mom, prophet and the private sector.

spk_0 And I think that model was revolutionary. And I think that model was primarily why we hit the

spk_0 scores we did. And it went up every year. I mean, by the end of it, we're remote, right? So,

spk_0 there was no carbon. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. We get in our office. And anything we saved money

spk_0 on transportation for the team, better life for the team, better lifestyle. Anything we could do,

spk_0 a lot of amicus briefs on environment, you know, we were a small company, but like I say,

spk_0 we had a big impact. So there was a lot of different things that we stood up for. And we felt

spk_0 were necessary from the private sector, which is needed today. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of entrepreneurs

spk_0 struggle with balancing that profit and purpose. What advice do you give for anybody trying to

spk_0 build those mission driven businesses and drive financially? It's tough. Yes. Or not, right?

spk_0 If you're actually solving a problem, well, true. Right. And you can solve a problem for all people.

spk_0 So I live in New York. You don't have to just solve a problem for people on a park avenue.

spk_0 So for me, it's about how wide is your problem solving? Right. That doesn't matter if it's a product

spk_0 or technology, but yeah. And how accessible is it? And so that does two things. One, it gives you

spk_0 a bigger market, gives you a higher chance of success. And two, it's going to be more impactful because

spk_0 you'll reach a more diverse audience and diversity in terms of economics. Right. Everything. I mean,

spk_0 age economics. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. He named location. Yeah. People define themselves as,

spk_0 but you reach more human beings. Right. Regardless of where they are, what circumstance, etc.

spk_0 And it's a great equalizer. So I would say it starts with the innovation.

spk_0 Right. It starts with the problem and then the innovation. And if you can be honest with that,

spk_0 it's not hard these days with globalization and the internet to figure out how to get that

spk_0 solution to people. Now the pricing can be challenging, right? So we did what we did at the time

spk_0 was we relied on developed world markets to serve underserved communities, localized prices.

spk_0 But there's other ways to do it. You can also do it in terms of scale. As you scale, you widen

spk_0 the breadth where you're going, the depth. And you can then offer lower prices. Now, you might

spk_0 have to take some hits on margin, but that to me is localizing pricing. That's just making your

spk_0 product affordable. It's just like selling in Japan versus Korea versus Germany. They're all going

spk_0 to be potentially different prices. Yeah. And even within country, sometimes that S3 are within

spk_0 read different retailers, some demand different prices. And so if you can figure that out, then you

spk_0 should be able to figure out a grander scale model. Yeah. Yeah. Hey friends, quick break here.

spk_0 If you're a destination marketing leader in your region is packed with amazing outdoor adventures,

spk_0 I want to hear from you. Let's get you on the outdoor adventure lifestyle podcast to share those

spk_0 stories with our audience. Hit me up at Rick at RickSays.com and I'll send you all the deeds.

spk_0 Let's inspire more folks to explore the wild side of your destination. But now let's get back to the show.

spk_0 So then you trend this into another chapter that business was acquired and you've entered

spk_0 this new chapter. What excites you most about this next stage? You're getting to do it all over again.

spk_0 Yeah. So I think I either got or failed an MBA in my front go around. And now it's a chance to

spk_0 take all those trips over the same branch or different branches and learnings and put them to work.

spk_0 I know what not to do. I know what to do. I know how to keep things really simple. But I also know that

spk_0 some of the mistakes I made were based on lack of capital, etc. And so what I wanted to do this time

spk_0 was number one, self-fund. I didn't want to add pressure. So, you know, loans, self-funding versus,

spk_0 you know, looking for investment. I think when you look for investment, it's a reasonable vehicle

spk_0 depending on the business and the return rate or return. But at some point, you know, it's not your

spk_0 business. I sell 100% of my business here. It's not my business. I sell 50% of my business. It's half

spk_0 my business. And that's not an ego thing. That just means can I make the decisions that I think

spk_0 is right for the business? Control or do my investors or to my board, etc. So very really make

spk_0 things simple as an example using a creative that's in a basement in Ukraine. That's a decision I

spk_0 wanted to do. That's what we did. And that's it. And so like, you know, you have the ability to make

spk_0 decisions that are meaningful. But this new company is taking the idea of the new category and

spk_0 creating something that's higher value, not necessarily higher cost. So I came up with a metric

spk_0 on creating new product and it was cost perlumin. So I'm still doing solar, I'm still doing

spk_0 that. I was unable to based on the efficiencies that my investors wanted. And so now I'm capitalized

spk_0 in a way that feels comfortable to innovation. And what I've created now is a much more beautiful,

spk_0 substantial, durable, aesthetically pleasing light and charger. This light and charger is now

spk_0 made out of an eco-friendly material. This charger is 10,000 milliamps. There's nothing like it

spk_0 before going on the market. It's still portable. Now it's not inflatable because of COVID and all

spk_0 sorts of other stuff that can happen, right? But it is expandable and collapsible. So we kept that.

spk_0 We have a patent. It has some really interesting tech on the inside of it. Also much more difficult

spk_0 to replicate or knock off the gray and black market. And even the tooling is just incredibly expensive

spk_0 to it. So it's very good. So we are starting with NGOs and then launching for the outdoor community.

spk_0 We already have NGOs buy an in huge global NGOs. And that's how you prove the efficacy of a product.

spk_0 You get to the harshest environments right after a natural disaster or war torn areas.

spk_0 And then you go to the outdoor community. That's how I think of it now. Then you go to REI.

spk_0 This is such a nice unit. It can be sold at somewhere like West Elm. This is really different.

spk_0 And the price point is $0.8 a lumens. We're up to 1,000 lumens. And a full planal flashlight is on.

spk_0 So that's not one LED. This is a really good flood light.

spk_0 And the highest run rate for the lantern alone is really 20 days. It's 120 hours.

spk_0 6 hours an evening. So you imagine charging something and then something hits. You got 20 days of

spk_0 light. That's amazing. And also communication for your phone. Right? This is so much. Even in the US.

spk_0 You're on a roof. Man, your phone better not die.

spk_0 And you also need to contact someone. But when the helicopter comes, you might need a light within SOS on it.

spk_0 Yeah. This is everything. But I promise you the light is aesthetically pleasing.

spk_0 It's porch patio pool, travel, camp, RV, tiny home. You name it. Like, you know, it's clamping. It's all of it.

spk_0 It's picnics. It's it's everything that we wanted. That's that's what you guys have always had. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 It's USB-C, right? So it fits it up now. It's it's also more intuitive.

spk_0 There's one button on the flashlight side. There's one button on the lantern side.

spk_0 There's one port for charging and charge out. But you could charge up to two iPhones on it.

spk_0 I mean, this thing wants to. It's not heavy.

spk_0 It, as I said, it's waterproof, you know, so for me, this is this is an opportunity to now choose to work with the people I want to work with.

spk_0 Good people who really care about impact.

spk_0 Across the board. And sometimes to say no to certain opportunities, right?

spk_0 Yeah. We keep it simple. And so everyone who I'm going to work with is a good person cares about impact.

spk_0 cares about the outdoors, outdoor community.

spk_0 I think we've talked about that a bit offline. Maybe the outdoor industry has lost some of that.

spk_0 Yeah. As the companies get bigger and bigger. You know, this is this is about being one with the environment.

spk_0 It's not about, you know, cutting down trees and setting up like a horrible safari.

spk_0 Well, and we've talked to us the further along we get and go the more urgent that's becoming.

spk_0 Absolutely. You know, I'm it changes real. Yeah.

spk_0 Keeps affecting the entire world and it's not just affecting the environment.

spk_0 It's affecting the human condition. And it's about resources.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, we're the only species. You know, I think the funny thing I like to say is New York lantern flies showed up a couple years ago.

spk_0 And everyone and this is bipartisan was like, you got to kill them.

spk_0 They're they're killing all the trees.

spk_0 Well, what are we doing? I mean, we're the species, right?

spk_0 I mean, we decide that we should kill lantern flies. So I think it's urgent for companies in the private sector to stand up

spk_0 to innovate and to create solutions for what is a really

spk_0 disastrous environmental situation right now.

spk_0 Yeah, it's pretty challenging. It's urgent for the next generations.

spk_0 I mean, the planet will survive.

spk_0 It goes out and it's a lot of other species. But yeah, it's urgent.

spk_0 Yeah, it's hurt.

spk_0 Yeah, it's a plant. Well, you know, once all of us are gone and all the species are gone, it'll go through

spk_0 it's morphine and adjusting and pretty soon it'll be the planet.

spk_0 We used to know that there won't be anybody on it. You know, I mean, maybe that could restart.

spk_0 It could do. Read the whole thing. We have no idea. But

spk_0 Yeah, do we want to work in concert or do we want to be a virus that gets fixed?

spk_0 That's the question. Exactly. Exactly.

spk_0 And you said you're eager to collaborate with like-minded people. What kinds of ideas or projects

spk_0 are you hoping to explore with others?

spk_0 Thanks. So a lot of CSR and cause marketing, a lot of work with large companies,

spk_0 Fortune 500 companies that maybe...

spk_0 CSR explain what's the CSR for those of my know?

spk_0 Yeah, corporate social responsibility.

spk_0 A lot of organizations have reports at the end of the year.

spk_0 But there's a sort of CSR slash cause marketing area that I really like and enjoy.

spk_0 And that's where you get a company to do good.

spk_0 But it really helps their loyalty or their attrition rates or their profit.

spk_0 So if a company sells a product and then they also give, let's say, a delight and surprise gift

spk_0 with that product, what makes people feel safe? Let's say it's an insurance company.

spk_0 You buy the insurance, you get a light.

spk_0 Well, that's exciting. Now that consumer is like, oh, progressive, we'll call it,

spk_0 you know, oh, they're a good company.

spk_0 Not only do they have my back economically, but there's a physical connection where I have a light

spk_0 in case something happens. By the way, progressive can put their name on it, right?

spk_0 Of course.

spk_0 Really where the cause marketing comes in, because if a hurricane hits and there's pictures from a big

spk_0 NGO or a media station and progressive's light is there, I mean, that does wonders for progressive

spk_0 bottom line, top line. But in this case, like, you know, it's about working with, you know,

spk_0 those in CSR and cause marketing that want to create impact, not just CSR report.

spk_0 And then it's about working with the right organizations, even though light kind of hits everywhere.

spk_0 Light is really agnostic, right?

spk_0 But you want to find the right NGOs whose programming will benefit most from light and power.

spk_0 And then how? Is it, you know, is it marine life? Is it on a land?

spk_0 Is it refugees in migration to make it safer?

spk_0 Geek camps.

spk_0 You know, is it disaster response?

spk_0 You know, and you want to make sure what you're doing makes sense for those organizations.

spk_0 And once again, it goes all the way back to what we talked about in the beginning.

spk_0 You want to solve problems?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We can solve a problem for a big corporation.

spk_0 We can solve a problem for a big NGO.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 We're doing what we've learned that works.

spk_0 And a large group of people.

spk_0 It's a large and so there you go.

spk_0 That's a big opportunity.

spk_0 There's so many companies and so many NGOs.

spk_0 And especially with the cuts in the nonprofit sector,

spk_0 you got to sharpen your pricing.

spk_0 And so for us, we have very low margins for NGOs very low.

spk_0 And that's we decided we go straight to source and very good, very good pricing,

spk_0 very good terms.

spk_0 And then pass on those savings, not say, oh, I'm going to make a gazillion on every

spk_0 not going to need that.

spk_0

spk_0 So if at retail were eight cents,

spk_0 friend's geo is an impact for three and a half cents a lumine.

spk_0 There's nothing close to it on the market.

spk_0 Nothing globally.

spk_0 And so yeah, it's just about making a difference.

spk_0 And it takes a village.

spk_0 I know it's cliche to say because I'm in the sort of happiness space.

spk_0 But you know, that's why I'm here with you, right?

spk_0 You open, get the word out.

spk_0 It's havenlantern.com.

spk_0 We're launching in October.

spk_0 You know, learn about us.

spk_0 See what we're all about.

spk_0 Again, it takes a village.

spk_0 So it's consumers to it's everyone share the share the word.

spk_0 And now let's, you know, brighten the world.

spk_0 Sorry.

spk_0 I love it.

spk_0 That's awesome.

spk_0 And look at the big picture.

spk_0 What role do you see small innovative companies like Haven and the previous company

spk_0 playing in solving the climate crisis?

spk_0 So I think it's more and more challenging to have a small company.

spk_0 But I do think working alongside larger companies, if you can, if you can build something

spk_0 that a larger company would take an interest in, you can do really well.

spk_0 I think ensuring so there's a lot of tech coming out now every day.

spk_0 Hey, yes, yes, it's all it's if you have LinkedIn, you're getting in and in.

spk_0 It's pretty overwhelming.

spk_0

spk_0 It's overwhelming.

spk_0 With tech in digital, a lot of people come out with a product.

spk_0 And then two years later, they work on their monetization strategy.

spk_0 I've always thought that, you know, you got to pay for your lemons to make lemonade.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 And then you got to pay for more lemons to make more lemonade.

spk_0 So you got to have a little bit of funding to start.

spk_0 And then you have to have margins that are healthy enough where you've thought through your

spk_0 business.

spk_0 That's the most important thing.

spk_0 And the smaller you are, actually, the easier it is.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And you have a ton of cap X and a ton of employees and ton overhead is really hard.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But when you're starting out, I would say start slow, start small work with people you trust,

spk_0 who trust you and who's have to share the vision that you have.

spk_0 But I don't I don't I wouldn't dissuade anyone from starting a small business right now.

spk_0 I think it's a good time to do it, especially with the job market being difficult.

spk_0 And sometimes if you want to do something right, you got to do it yourself.

spk_0 That's right.

spk_0 If you have a vision and you're passionate, you know, you think about people will tell you

spk_0 you can't do it.

spk_0 Well, Michael Jordan made a career out of that.

spk_0 And then Kobe Bryant made a career out of the Michael Jordan idea.

spk_0 So I mean, you got to, if you're passionate and work hard and you'll be fun.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I believe that.

spk_0 No, I believe it too.

spk_0 I believe I think it's don't let anybody tell you you can't, you know, just go try it and

spk_0 Hey, that's motivation.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 Yeah, that's true.

spk_0 That's true.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So how do you speak in a motivation?

spk_0 How do you personally stay motivated and optimistic when the challenges around us are just,

spk_0 you know, sustainability and access to clean energy?

spk_0 Sometimes you can just look at the world and shake your head and it's a little overwhelming.

spk_0 Can be.

spk_0 Yeah, I'm not solving all the world's problems.

spk_0 And you have to have some faith in, in others coming around and figuring it out and doing well.

spk_0 In my, in my little lane, the truth is, I'm not always optimistic and happy.

spk_0 And there's a lot of people out there that say stay positive and I agree.

spk_0 But I would add, you know, you have to try every day to stay positive.

spk_0 And that's where I'm at.

spk_0 I'm trying really hard.

spk_0 actively to stay positive in the face of any adversity that comes my way, whether it's macro

spk_0 or in my own life.

spk_0 I don't think there's a secret sauce to it.

spk_0 I think there's, there's just the idea that if you can focus on doing one thing,

spk_0 solving one problem and that will enable positivity.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 For me, any, any forms little wins throughout the day are really exciting.

spk_0 And I'm keeping going.

spk_0 And, and I'll also add that doing anything that's impactful will make you feel better.

spk_0 It just makes you feel better.

spk_0 Not everyone donates for the tax write off, right?

spk_0 Some people say, because they make some feel good.

spk_0 Yeah, exactly.

spk_0 And that's why you buy someone a present.

spk_0 Yeah, that makes you feel good.

spk_0 Yeah, it's the same thing.

spk_0 So I think just the action of doing good can potentially help your mental state.

spk_0 That's good.

spk_0 I think it takes some tenacity too in these this day and age two.

spk_0 You have to realize that it's not all going to be peaches and cream.

spk_0 And we're all, we all go through hard stuff and you just pick yourself up, get back out,

spk_0 put your helmet on and go after it again, you know?

spk_0 That's a great point.

spk_0 So you're not alone.

spk_0 Everyone's dealing with the same stuff.

spk_0 And it doesn't matter who they are, who they think they are.

spk_0 You know, we all got to live the same life.

spk_0 That's right.

spk_0 And everyone has similar stresses.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And everyone feels the world's stress is too.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 No matter who you are and what your ideology is,

spk_0 if you focus on the argument versus solution, you're going to be miserable.

spk_0 If you focus on pollution, you're probably going to be okay.

spk_0 There's always a solution no matter how hard it seems.

spk_0 And with words.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So finally, what's one piece of advice you can give to outdoor

spk_0 adventures, entrepreneurs, business leaders, or anyone listening that wants to make their work

spk_0 more impactful?

spk_0 I think, I think I wouldn't have one piece of advice.

spk_0 I think I think perseverance, I think passion, resilience, maybe finding, you know, a partner,

spk_0 couple partners that share your vision because doing things completely alone is very hard.

spk_0 And like, yeah.

spk_0 So, you know, being on this podcast with UREK is helpful to me,

spk_0 probably helpful to you.

spk_0 Yeah, it's helpful to me too.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 I think figuring out who's your, who's got your back, who's your ally, who shares your vision,

spk_0 who do you trust?

spk_0 Especially in business.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Everything's hunky-dory when people are in the ideation stage.

spk_0 And everyone's saying, oh, we're going to do the...

spk_0 Not energy, not creativity.

spk_0 Yeah, you're right.

spk_0 Second, the first problem comes could be a challenge.

spk_0 Second, the money comes in.

spk_0 Could be a challenge.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So, you really want people that you trust and you talk to the scenarios in your share vision.

spk_0 But to me, that's maybe that is one thing.

spk_0 Maybe you want to work with people that

spk_0 have your back and you have theirs.

spk_0 Chemistry.

spk_0 Yeah, good team is, in my career, has been a really solid anchor, you know,

spk_0 because you can always go back to that, whether it's the core part of the bigger group or just

spk_0 a tight group, if you have that core team, that's a solid way to bounce out to this.

spk_0 I mean, I'll add one thing real quick, because you're the outdoor podcast, right?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, if you're going to make products for the outdoors,

spk_0 make them environmentally, you know, make sure your products blend, you know,

spk_0 environmentally with the area that you're serving.

spk_0 It's just, otherwise, you're not.

spk_0 You shouldn't be in the outdoor industry.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 What's the go back to the roots?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Not just to be a B-Corp and get a high score.

spk_0 Like, what's the purpose of camping if you're ruining the campsite and no one else can go there

spk_0 next time?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We're killing off species.

spk_0 So, yeah.

spk_0 That applies to all outdoor activities.

spk_0 Hunting, fixing, camping, everything.

spk_0 You got to be sustainable in your approach.

spk_0 100%.

spk_0 Yep.

spk_0

spk_0 Not just a word.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 As we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to say to folks as we finish?

spk_0 No.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 You know, I'd like to thank you.

spk_0 Thank people for listening.

spk_0 I'll mention, I'll plug it again, because, you know, it takes a lot of folks to get a movement

spk_0 going, but Haven lantern.com.

spk_0 It's a refuge.

spk_0 It's a place of safety.

spk_0 The light.

spk_0 Great name.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We're trying to really make people feel safe

spk_0 and give people the tool to make their lives better, no matter who they are,

spk_0 where they are under any circumstance.

spk_0 Cool.

spk_0 Well, we'll link to that in the show notes.

spk_0 For sure.

spk_0 And so, we can find it.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 Well, thanks again, John.

spk_0 It's been great.

spk_0 I'd like to look forward to talking with you.

spk_0 I look forward to seeing you.

spk_0 I haven't seen you in a while.

spk_0 So, Will.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Be a true or something.

spk_0 We got to have our own physical connection.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 That's right.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 Well, we'll talk.

spk_0 We'll talk again soon.

spk_0 All right.

spk_0 Thank you, Rick.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 Thank you for joining us on another episode of the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast.

spk_0 Be sure to visit our website, ricksaize.com.

spk_0 We'll find show notes and links to everything we talked about and more.

spk_0 And while you're at it, if you found value in this show,

spk_0 give us a rating on Apple Podcast.

spk_0 Or spread the word and tell a friend.

spk_0 That would really help us out too.

spk_0 Be sure to tune in every week and thanks again for listening to the Outdoor Adventure Lifestyle Podcast.

EP 531 What Happens When Your Product Actually Changes Lives?

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