Ep. 434: Demystifying Interior Design with Gordon Dunning

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Welcome to How to Decorate from Baller Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and

spk_0 triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home.

spk_0 I'm Caroline, I'm on the marketing team, and I'm Taren and I'm a product designer.

spk_0 I'm Liz, I head of the Creative Team.

spk_0 Where are your hosts?

spk_0 Join the expert team at Baller Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers,

spk_0 stylists, and other talents in the design world.

spk_0 Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.

spk_0 We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us at podcasts at Baller Design

spk_0 and Startnet.

spk_0 Now on with the show.

spk_0 Yay!

spk_0 We have two of our favorites, bag.

spk_0 Kate Dunning and Latham Gordon.

spk_0 Gordon Dunning.

spk_0 This is your turn.

spk_0 You all have been on the show several times.

spk_0 TV show design school with QVC.

spk_0 You are interior designers here in Atlanta.

spk_0 You've been in House Beautiful.

spk_0 Atlanta Homes and Lifestyle Atlanta Magazine.

spk_0 You were the next wave designers for House Beautiful.

spk_0 You've had many accolades.

spk_0 We're also friends and we love having you here and we're excited because we're going

spk_0 to talk about working with an interior designer.

spk_0 What does that process look like?

spk_0 What should you expect from an interior designer and that partnership?

spk_0 What is the timeline?

spk_0 We're going to get into all the nitty gritty and you all are going to walk us through

spk_0 it.

spk_0 I know we're going to have lots of giggles because you all are hilarious.

spk_0 Welcome back.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 It's been a life long dream of mine to be funny.

spk_0 We'll see if I can come to play with it there one day.

spk_0 I'm not yet achieved.

spk_0 But they feel so much for having us.

spk_0 We're so excited about this because I feel like we say in our studio all the time there

spk_0 are no dumb questions.

spk_0 Being able to help anybody out there who's entertaining, getting designer feel more comfortable

spk_0 in that process, I think helps everyone.

spk_0 So, I think he feels like such an intimidating thing.

spk_0 It's such an industry shrouded in mystery.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 I'm looking behind the curtain today.

spk_0 I don't know that it's intentional but because so many designers work differently there's

spk_0 not a right answer.

spk_0 And so then it feels like it doesn't make sense to like it's not a uniform process.

spk_0 And therefore it feels secretive and that's why it's very annoying.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 I can imagine we have our process that we have the same thing every day but yeah it's

spk_0 I would imagine it's very irritating to shop for designer because it's not Apple's

spk_0 apples.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So we'll talk about that.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's a whole discussion.

spk_0 So let's talk about the pregame.

spk_0 What are some things that we need to do before we start thinking about a designer that we

spk_0 want to work with?

spk_0 I think the most accessible thing is well first think about what are you're going to be

spk_0 your priorities, whether that is timeline, aesthetic, price point, you name it.

spk_0 Just be thinking about those as you dive into Instagram, dive on the websites, use any

spk_0 of your resources that are local.

spk_0 If you're in the southeast looking at who's coming to Atlanta decorative art center and

spk_0 speaking or any other book signing events in the area and that can happen in any area

spk_0 of the country that you're in.

spk_0 But finding out who's coming in and going and watching folks speak, hearing what they

spk_0 have to say on their panels, going down deep dive rabbit holes on Instagram.

spk_0 And listen to their podcasts episode.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think you have clients that have had a lot of folks think that the first thing to do

spk_0 is to Pinterest and know what your vision is and know what your aesthetic is.

spk_0 That's actually the part we got now.

spk_0 We got that.

spk_0 And there's so many talented designers in Atlanta, if we're talking about Atlanta, but everywhere.

spk_0 There's so many.

spk_0 How the personality, the vibe and process are really where it starts to define whether

spk_0 you're going to have a good process or a good design experience, experience.

spk_0 So thinking about how you work with other professionals in your life, when do you feel

spk_0 heard by your doctor, when do you feel heard by your child's teacher?

spk_0 How, how of those relationships gone well and defining that and being like, if somebody,

spk_0 if I could get an update every week or I prefer it when we get to have phone calls or people

spk_0 who validate me or who listen or talking pictures or have lots of meetings.

spk_0 What types of action items would you like in that process that feel good to you?

spk_0 Because there's the aesthetic side, but there's the experience side.

spk_0 And sometimes those come together and sometimes you've got to work to find that.

spk_0 Do you feel more comfortable with an hourly structure or a fee structure?

spk_0 So the financial piece of it is really important.

spk_0 Do you have a really long time?

spk_0 Like did the folks that you seem to gravitate towards aesthetically?

spk_0 Do they also have a process that looks like the work for you?

spk_0 And I think coming and figuring out how those two can come together.

spk_0 And you may not know all those until you start picking up the fun.

spk_0 And get really cozy and comfortable with the fact that you're going to have to talk

spk_0 about money and you're going to have to talk about timeline.

spk_0 So define your budget that doesn't have to be like 13,126 dollars.

spk_0 But you know, what would you be comfortable spending now versus over a period of time?

spk_0 And just just talk about it.

spk_0 So I think that's what you do before.

spk_0 Well, and I think to, you know, considering all of that,

spk_0 it is, I think everyone's hope on both sides of that relationship.

spk_0 That it's a long-term relationship.

spk_0 Whether that is that you're going to renovate a historic home and do every piece of furniture

spk_0 in it still, hopefully that relationship is so good that five years from now when you have

spk_0 another baby or you buy a second home or whatever it is that you call those same people back.

spk_0 It is a very personal relationship.

spk_0 So really thinking through those things and taking your time on the front end

spk_0 and not rushing in will make a huge difference in your experience.

spk_0 So I'll say with that, especially if you are building or renovating,

spk_0 you need to be finding, if you're going to work with a interior designer,

spk_0 you need to be finding a designer at the same time you're doing an architecture builder.

spk_0 We're often thought of later in the process and there's so much to design alongside

spk_0 the architect and the builder.

spk_0 And when processes are rushed, they're not as good.

spk_0 Well, and I think to, you know, each one of those parties, the builder and architect and designer

spk_0 are approaching a job at a very different perspective in all our valid and important.

spk_0 But it stinks when we get into a project and if a wall had been, excuse me, six inches one other way,

spk_0 you could have gotten that sofa you really wanted.

spk_0 And if we had all been working in tandem, then that could have happened.

spk_0 And that's our lens that we look through things from is from the inside out and

spk_0 having a full team as soon as you can makes a big difference.

spk_0 Yeah, I like that you pointed out that thinking about relationships with like your doctor or

spk_0 a teacher or somebody else because it's a really communication heavy relationship.

spk_0 And I think people don't realize that.

spk_0 But you are also in the customer service business.

spk_0 Oh yeah, thank you.

spk_0 That is communicating, working through problems.

spk_0 That is a lot of what your role is.

spk_0 Obviously you have a creative vision, but you got to execute the creative vision.

spk_0 And so there's a lot of the good.

spk_0 Yeah, and you got to mean it's specifically with us.

spk_0 And it's my understanding that most designers as well, we enjoy working with people.

spk_0 So I know we'll talk about misconceptions later, but I think a lot of people have the

spk_0 movie idea of a designer who comes in.

spk_0 It's like, this must go.

spk_0 I have this vision and this is what's going to happen.

spk_0 And I don't think that's what most of us enjoy doing.

spk_0 We want to get to know you and your life and your family and how you live and then punch that out into an interior.

spk_0 So that communication is so incredibly important.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And you can ask for what you really want and voice challenges if you don't feel comfortable with the

spk_0 person.

spk_0

spk_0 You know, I think we've all been in like think about a haircut or like someone's a terrible haircut.

spk_0 And you're like, yes, it's great.

spk_0 I love it.

spk_0 Yay.

spk_0 And you're a perfect example of your hair.

spk_0 If that's what you're trying to do.

spk_0 That is the perfect example.

spk_0 You need to find somebody who you would feel comfortable saying I don't like it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Now, we have a process where you are hopefully not saying that on install day.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 That's a long time to say it.

spk_0 That's before your hair gets cut.

spk_0

spk_0 Before it's gone.

spk_0 But that is so important that you can have the difficult and the fun conversations.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So what does the interview process look like when you're interviewing a client and they're

spk_0 interviewing you?

spk_0 Oh, man.

spk_0 I feel like, yes, this is a great question.

spk_0 I think it's really important.

spk_0 And we say this to a lot of clients.

spk_0 It is important to interview multiple folks.

spk_0 And it's totally understandable.

spk_0 We all understand that you're probably doing that.

spk_0 And so to be transparent about that is very comfortable.

spk_0 And my mother is working through a project now and she was interviewing two different

spk_0 cabinetry folks.

spk_0 And she's not going to work with one.

spk_0 And she's like, I feel so bad.

spk_0 And I was like, we're used to this game.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It's okay.

spk_0 We know we're not going to be the best fit for everyone based on a whole rubric of things

spk_0 that could be or could not be the right fit.

spk_0 So the interview process in our world and everybody's process is different, of course.

spk_0 But I think most people have a client procurement phase, a design phase, an execution phase.

spk_0 And so during the client procurement in our world, there's typically an initial email and or phone call.

spk_0 Depending on the scope of the project and the personality of the person,

spk_0 you know, that phone call can be really critical because

spk_0 people have a lot of questions.

spk_0 And hearing the tone of our voice helps a lot.

spk_0 You know, emails are often pretty cold.

spk_0 So initial email to get your intel is usually how it starts.

spk_0 And then there's usually a call for personality gauge.

spk_0 And then we go out.

spk_0 And so if we know the scopes right, personalities are matching up and all that,

spk_0 then we go out to the home.

spk_0 And that's always so much fun.

spk_0 Just seeing the space, seeing the folks in the space, really getting to start

spk_0 diving into who they are and what their hopes and dreams are.

spk_0 In addition to what the applies to interior response.

spk_0 And that's kind of our initial phase.

spk_0 Then we sort of move into what we, the proposing phase,

spk_0 when we, you know, go and send them their proposal and all that,

spk_0 then you give them a rose, right?

spk_0 Yes, yes, you give them a rose.

spk_0 And there's like, in terms of, yeah, it's a whole

spk_0 universe dance.

spk_0 That's my job.

spk_0 Yes, then I'm on the side.

spk_0 You can do your eighth grade cheerleading dance really well.

spk_0 I do.

spk_0 Sometimes Kate gets to that.

spk_0 That's fun.

spk_0 It's all just so dance is my favorite dance.

spk_0 But we do that all in good fun.

spk_0 So I think, um, with the interview process,

spk_0 we very much are interviewing the client just like they are interviewing us.

spk_0 But I think that they should be coming again with what your scope is.

spk_0 And what asking money questions in that initial phone call is really important,

spk_0 engaging that personality.

spk_0 That vibe and that.

spk_0 I think people hire us.

spk_0 Often because of vibe and process.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That we fit their vibe.

spk_0 We're getting everybody's company.

spk_0 We're going to silly.

spk_0 There's two of us.

spk_0 I mean, I don't know.

spk_0 There's lots of other partnerships, but we are like,

spk_0 signing these twins.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 All the time.

spk_0 And we're a lot.

spk_0 We're a lot.

spk_0 It's so funny.

spk_0 One of our favorite builders to work with.

spk_0 We drove by, we often work on any historic renovations that they're working on,

spk_0 because that's one of our passions.

spk_0 We drove by one one day and we saw their sign out in the yard and we weren't on that project.

spk_0 And we're like, hey, why don't you put those on the,

spk_0 let us know that one.

spk_0 It's just like you would have terrified them.

spk_0 So much and they are so calm and we're like,

spk_0 yeah, hurt.

spk_0 That's so good.

spk_0 So I mean, anybody with any sort of confidence will understand that as you're interviewing,

spk_0 the vibe is so important and that person doesn't really match up.

spk_0 And how you would want to be treated by your hairdresser.

spk_0 Such a good comparison.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Absolutely.

spk_0 Call back and be like, I have a raccoon strip on the back of my head that I just found you don't need to be excited.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 But I mean, it should be a conversation.

spk_0 It should be open.

spk_0 There are no stupid questions.

spk_0 I just, and come with a list.

spk_0 I mean, we have clients come with a full list sometimes.

spk_0 Sometimes they'll just hold that in their head magically.

spk_0 I don't know how they live their lives that way, but more power to them.

spk_0 But I mean, just an open dialogue is really important.

spk_0 And what your priorities are.

spk_0 And don't be afraid to say what your priorities are because we can't do our job well if we don't

spk_0 know all the details of your goals.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 You can also just show up and say, I don't know what to do.

spk_0 What are some questions they should ask you on the first?

spk_0 How do you process work?

spk_0 How do you charge?

spk_0 I hate this question because it's work, but it's totally legit and they should ask it.

spk_0 This is the scope of my project.

spk_0 This is the type of stuff that I like.

spk_0 What can I expect to spend if they have no idea of budget?

spk_0 Because I mean, it is again shrouded in mystery.

spk_0 And it's not like you buy a whole house of furniture every year.

spk_0 You probably, if you did it 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago, or you've never done it,

spk_0 prices have changed, things have changed.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 And it adds up quick.

spk_0 Like you're probably thinking about the furniture,

spk_0 you're banisterially thinking about the wall coverings, the lampshades,

spk_0 pillows and the rods and all those things are also all those sorts of things.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 And what we call cell phone fees, the receiving storage and delivery.

spk_0 Just getting it there.

spk_0 Project management.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 All that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think that's stuff.

spk_0 So we will, we will talk people's ear off on the phone and give them as much information

spk_0 as they are willing to take.

spk_0 And like there are almost points in an initial call where I will stop and be like,

spk_0 do you want me tomorrow to walk to you?

spk_0 Do you just read this and just send it to you?

spk_0 No, no, no, no, no, no, whatever.

spk_0 I'll write your process.

spk_0 I'm good.

spk_0 Please leave me alone.

spk_0 I've already learned out there or figured out that you're crazy.

spk_0 So bye.

spk_0 So I think those those questions are really good.

spk_0 And also pricing is often, I will say our response is often a range.

spk_0 Because we don't know you well enough yet to know,

spk_0 are you going to really value antiques in your room?

spk_0 Are you going to, there are a lot of different tiers of pricing that can all

spk_0 of the beautiful and all be a successful design in terms of function and aesthetic.

spk_0 But we don't know you quite well enough to know what your priorities are.

spk_0 So if someone has a dollar amount in their head of like, okay, I'm comfortable spending X amount.

spk_0 I know that you want them to tell you that, but should they be a, should they be afraid that

spk_0 you're going to like, bulk at that or think, oh, that's too much too little.

spk_0 Like, is that well, I think I would be nervous that somebody would judge that,

spk_0 whether it's a low budget or I think on the other side of people give a bigger budget

spk_0 that they're like, they'll just work towards that budget and I could have gotten it for less.

spk_0 Yeah. So that's a very valid fear for sure.

spk_0 So if I were in their position, I would probably give a range just like we are.

spk_0 Okay, I'm willing to spend this to this. I don't really know what I'm looking at.

spk_0 And maybe that's too little and working with it. I mean, it can, a living room can be anywhere

spk_0 between, I don't know, 40 and 300,000 people. I mean, it can be crazy town.

spk_0 I mean, it can gild your walls if you want us to.

spk_0 But no one has that thing is that folks often think that I don't want diamond encrested,

spk_0 I don't want a diamond encrested lamp. Well, still an unlike or brass nice one is $1200. Do you want

spk_0 to spend that? Yeah. Like, we're not going to do diamond encrested and it's still going to be

spk_0 expensive. Yeah. And so should they be worried? No. But I understand that as a human,

spk_0 right? That's uncomfortable. But you've got to get comfortable doing it because what is going to

spk_0 be worse is you've gone through the design process. You've paid for that design process,

spk_0 which is already thousands. And then it can't happen at the end. So we typically, I mean,

spk_0 we explain that during our process, along and along where we have these money conversations,

spk_0 really, we, you know, when people are like, I don't really know or there is no budget. And

spk_0 I'm like, yes, there is everybody's got a top. Yeah. Let's just see what it comes out to be.

spk_0 These are the types of things people say to totally get it. Completely understand. But we can't

spk_0 respect a number that we don't know. Right. And that may mean that we go it's too low. That's not

spk_0 enough. Yeah. And that's a risk that you have to take so that we can respect it. And we've

spk_0 had that conversation with potential clients before. And so it's not enough. And then they come

spk_0 back six months later. And they're like, all right, I've had bonus season. I'm ready to go.

spk_0 Yeah. And so or three years later. Yeah, that too. That too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, whenever it is

spk_0 because we can make a lot of things work well on a lot of different budgets, but there are some

spk_0 budgets that don't make sense necessarily to work with a designer. Right. And it's not that that's a

spk_0 poo poo budget. It's not that that is something to sneeze at or laugh at. It's just

spk_0 sometimes it doesn't make sense. It's not for you to pay for design expertise to. Yeah, exactly.

spk_0 Yeah. If you have a $20,000 budget and it's going to take already, I don't know.

spk_0 But then it just depends on the scope. Yeah. In design fees. Yeah. You know, we've got

spk_0 so fun chairs. And it's not going to feel like you spend a lot of money. So for those things,

spk_0 the internet isn't breadable. You've got blocks. You've got online,

spk_0 design resources. I mean, you know, just because a designer is above your budget,

spk_0 does not mean that's anything to sneeze at. All of my friends are teachers. That's a great

spk_0 time to listen to podcast or go into a store and talk about our store. Yeah.

spk_0 Yes. They have retail stores out there. What do you do with design services? I mean, there are

spk_0 so many resources. Yeah. And it is a different experience. Yeah.

spk_0 But again, yeah, definitely nothing to point your nose up at. Yeah. What are some questions

spk_0 that you will ask them that they should be prepared to answer other than that we've

spk_0 obviously covered the budget. We've got your bills that you're like, you know, we're going to ask

spk_0 you this, be prepared. Or if a designer doesn't ask them, that should be a concern like a friend

spk_0 like. I don't know that there's any hard and fast ones. It goes down to that to that personality

spk_0 matchup. So watch to see if your values are aligning. Because what we are going to ask you a lot

spk_0 is about your story. Where did you meet your significant other? What's it mean? Why did you name

spk_0 your kids? What you named them? What are your, did you love your parents' house to talk to us

spk_0 about that? We are really into story and people walking in and saying, this looks like your house,

spk_0 but it functions and it's beautiful. So clearly, Gordon Dunning did it. So that's really important

spk_0 to us. If that's important to you, then it makes sense. If you are our type of client and the

spk_0 designers that you're interviewing aren't asking you those types of questions, then that's a red

spk_0 flag. But if you're somebody who's a Wampam, thank you, man, let's just get it done. I just want

spk_0 nothing to you. So that's why it's kind of a hard question. Yeah, yes. But I think any designer is

spk_0 going to come in and talk to you about how you're going to use this space and what your goals are

spk_0 for this space. Like, why are you debris doing your whole home? You're kitchen, you're whatever it is.

spk_0 And so talk through, I mean, obviously you'll be redoing it for aesthetic reasons. But hey,

spk_0 is this fall in a part? We've had another kid. We just bought this house and we're coming from

spk_0 a totally different perspective. And we just had neighbors move in that are best friends from

spk_0 childhood and my parents live across the town. And we need to be able to have them all at the

spk_0 dinner table, you know, whatever it is. And so knowing what your reasoning is for doing that

spk_0 is helping us be able to prioritize. Yeah. Yeah. What's the pain point? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. What makes you want to part with your dollars for this?

spk_0 Pain point, I think, is a great one because I do think sometimes we know it's not working. We

spk_0 don't necessarily know why. And you could probably help them figure that out. Yeah. And as they can say,

spk_0 like, you know, storage is my challenge. And it's not working. Or like, I bought this couch. It's

spk_0 uncomfortable or whatever it is. Like, it probably gets you a little bit more. And if one were to

spk_0 soul search and joke, can't come up with bullet points saying, there's just something wrong with

spk_0 swimming on the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. It's horrible. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 And we hold you. We do a lot of psychology in our work. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

spk_0 One that you should come prepared for is how you and your partner are going to handle this.

spk_0 Yes. I get there. Yeah. And we've worked with all kinds of families in all kinds of

spk_0 different ways and all been successful. And we've had some that maybe had hiccups because

spk_0 they didn't think that through on the front end. And someone had a way in that we didn't

spk_0 reach. Where in a line. Is that what you mean? Right. Yes. Okay. And that's okay. I mean,

spk_0 we can help with that. There are some things because it's a marriage discussion that you can have

spk_0 when we're not here. You know, if someone's like, Oh, no, I want a man cave and she's like, I

spk_0 want to show you room or whatever with this extra space that doesn't don't need to figure that out

spk_0 on your own time. But most priorities of why you're doing it and why you're investing in it.

spk_0 I think that needs to be figured out and shared. Right. Yeah. You both need to value it. And who

spk_0 all has an opinion. And what that opinion is on. And therefore those people need to show up.

spk_0 Yes. We actually don't think we've heard about that. Yeah. Because I can imagine like if someone is

spk_0 the one showing up to the meetings and they're giving you okay. But then like, well, what about

spk_0 the other person? Are they happy? Right. Yeah. Behind the scenes saying, you know what? I didn't want

spk_0 that. Yeah. But they weren't there. Right. Right. Exactly. We actually have not had that problem

spk_0 in a really, really long time. And I think it's because we talk about it a lot. So stereotypically,

spk_0 we usually meet with the wife and the husband is comes later. Obviously, it's not what always

spk_0 happens. But there's, you know, there's a design enthusiast and one who was not. And so that we will say,

spk_0 like if he has an opinion, he needs to come to our love hate meeting. He needs to come to the very

spk_0 first design meeting. Say he loves and hates stuff. And then, and then he can be used to me and go on.

spk_0 Yeah. So we need to be aligned on if he is going to have veto power, he needs to be doing it during

spk_0 the process. Yeah. And he could be she could be your mama. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's

spk_0 she. Yeah. It's a business mama. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you're going to show it to her in the end.

spk_0 And you're going to go on or your best friend or whoever it is, who is going to completely take

spk_0 the wind out of your sales. They need to be a part of the process. Yeah. But we do talk. That

spk_0 hasn't actually happened in a very long time. Okay. This actually brings up a great question

spk_0 because what if like, I think we all love the design board. I'm sure you all prepared design

spk_0 boards and that kind of thing for your clients. So, um, and it's normal, I think, to want to have a

spk_0 second opinion. How do you feel about people sharing those design boards with people that aren't

spk_0 in the process? Go for it. Probably have no idea what any of those little swatches mean. Like,

spk_0 yeah, that I feel like could be tricky. It's kind of, um, we're, we're very encouraging of

spk_0 gathering opinions as often as you would choose at the beginning of the process. Once we start

spk_0 getting down to those final designs, if you are going to get disappointed and pivot based on

spk_0 Mama's opinion, who hasn't been a part of any of this after final design, just know you're going

spk_0 to pay for it. Yeah. Really. If you, if you go outside, we are fee based. Right. So we have a package

spk_0 that goes with a dollar amount and that's, that's bespoke to each, but it's a very specific process

spk_0 and very specific deliverables. And you're amazing. Your fee, I'm assuming. Correct me if I'm wrong.

spk_0 Of the number of hours that you expect to spend designing it. So it's, it's an hourly structure

spk_0 like a lawyer or, yeah, we do. And it ours goes with the process and the hours and that's how we come

spk_0 up with it. But if we have an extra phone call or whatever, you're not billed for it. Yeah.

spk_0 But yeah, if it comes, if we're down to the very end of the process and you're sharing it and

spk_0 things are changing, then the process is going to get jacked and we're going to have to charge

spk_0 a different additionally for that. But also, you're going to be sad. Yeah. Because that's when it's

spk_0 going to start going off the rails. Yeah. So share. We have a client portal. It's all available

spk_0 online all the time. Share it with your friends. But just do it the same way you would do if

spk_0 there's something going on with your kid at school. Do you want to be shared? Whose opinions do you

spk_0 really want? Yeah. Or your baking name. And as much as you would share your baby name. Yes. That is

spk_0 a great way. And think like my willing to pay the extra to listen to this person's opinion.

spk_0 Yes. Yeah. You don't mean like tell my best friend and they don't like this blue curtain

spk_0 fabric. Like, am I willing to pay to extra for that? Or do I not really give a shit?

spk_0 Yeah. Right. Because it's not a fabric is your baby. Yeah.

spk_0 It's something that you can show as you want. It's all pretty and done. It's not.

spk_0 Isn't this beautiful? Or do you have the confidence to share with your best friend? Your best friend,

spk_0 I hate it and say, okay, that's cool. Thanks for telling me, but I'm going to keep it.

spk_0 Yeah. Also, I love the trend. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 And because you love you.

spk_0 Five new friends. You should love you. Yeah. We're both less. And she, I mean, you can name

spk_0 your child, Margot coffee table. I'm looking at it and they should go, that is so you.

spk_0 But some people have that like friendship where you're like, I, this is not for me. I wouldn't

spk_0 pick this, but you do it. Yeah. For you not for me. My sister's one of those for sure.

spk_0 But you don't have to take their feedback. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

spk_0 Precisely. I think you summed that up. Well, I gave your confident enough to share it and just

spk_0 get move on about your business. Then great. And or are you going to pay for it? Yeah.

spk_0 To share with you or your whoever. Yeah. But we're not going to guard it. That's your

spk_0 post to problems. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You choose. You choose. You can be faster.

spk_0 Because those people are asking like, does it call, could it cause problems? Yeah.

spk_0 Which yeah. Yeah. It doesn't typically for us though. I know why.

spk_0 No, I think people usually solicit on the front end and get any opinions. But I mean,

spk_0 we from the gig goes to someone's got opinion. Yeah. And he come put their booty in a chair.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Or be just. Yeah. Well, it is really easy to be the, um, oh my gosh. What do we call it?

spk_0 My name is gallery. Oh, yeah. Oh, they don't mean that. Yeah. If you're willing to show up and put

spk_0 in the hours to like be involved in the process, then yeah. Yeah. Just just. Yeah.

spk_0 Like the video. Yeah. I want to know more about this love it. hate it. Meeting.

spk_0 I know. Yes. That's. It's the best part of our process. Um, I'll give you a quick rundown on our

spk_0 process first. So we're fee based. And so it's a nice little package. And I honestly, this has

spk_0 been our process from the beginning. That we have, you know, our procurement process, which is an

spk_0 initial consultation. We propose they pay money and say, yes, or say yes with their money. However,

spk_0 you want to put that to men. Our first design meeting is love hate. And then we have two additional

spk_0 meetings that really get us to that final design. And then their deliverables are there. Um,

spk_0 and their meetings or phases, depending on how big the process is. There's several meetings in

spk_0 love hate. Yeah. Just depending like if, yeah, that can vary. Um, yeah. So a phase is probably a

spk_0 better way to term it. But um, that love hate one is the first one. And so that's when we're really

spk_0 getting to know clients. And that's when we call it love hate. Most people might call it ideation.

spk_0 But we call it love hate because we work with a lot of nice people. And we need them to say ugly

spk_0 things about tile, fabric layouts, whatever it is. Because say it now, because once we get here,

spk_0 you got to pay extra to say no. Yeah. Or say that's ugly. And so let's, let's start here. And

spk_0 it also, I think establishes a trust with their clients. Um, so that they feel comfortable telling

spk_0 us, I hate my haircut. Can you fix it? Yes. Yeah. I think that's really important. And it is

spk_0 stuff. So when they come to that meeting, so we, we describe our, like, way that I'm saying,

spk_0 our process, we do it like a funnel. So in the beginning, we're learning all this stuff about

spk_0 you. We're measuring it. And there's a questionnaire. So we know stuff about you already. We've

spk_0 interviewed all that sort of stuff. Now we've pulled all these things for you specifically. We've designed

spk_0 several different layouts. I mean, this applies to every type of project. Um, construction,

spk_0 renovation, decorating, whether it's just one room or a whole house. Um, so we'll throw sketches

spk_0 and floor plans and tiles and fabric and everything all over the table. You have this created for you,

spk_0 ginormous set of options options. And caffeine is offered. This means caffeine is all.

spk_0 Oh, there you go. And stuff like that. And all they have to do is feel their feelings out

spk_0 and it's hysterical. It's so funny to see how different people do it because they sit down at first

spk_0 and they're like, okay, well, like you hate that. You know, I hate maybe for somebody else,

spk_0 we're not designing their room. Do you? You hate it? So they can say anything between love,

spk_0 hate, not for me, be as personicity as they were. Some people like rub the fabrics on their faces.

spk_0 Um, and then it's that is important. Everything is it's just like we're able to take a nap on that.

spk_0 So I want to know if it's really not inevitable. Yes, yeah, it's critical. So everybody who

spk_0 has an opinion needs to be there, which is, you know, to say a small group of people. Um, but then

spk_0 everything is on their portal after it too. So they have Emily give them a homework date. So we'll say,

spk_0 okay, love it was really at the end of that meeting, we're like, love it was very overwhelming.

spk_0 You okay? You know, me, all right? This is all on your portal. Yeah. Go home, discuss, sit in the

spk_0 room, talk about it, think about stuff and give us your final thoughts in a week. And then we go

spk_0 to the next phase where it's more of a peak behind the curtain. So we've taken all that feedback.

spk_0 Everything we learned to love eight, which is so much stuff. Did you learn a lot? Because they get in

spk_0 it, you know, they're like, lilac really hate it. And this is why. And then we get into grandma

spk_0 and mom and stuff. I mean, we get into all kinds of things. And the things that people have

spk_0 peeps about are hysterical. Things that you've just never thought about in human behavior.

spk_0 You know, whether it's like a Chester drawers, if it has a nice little handle that goes

spk_0 when closes, oh, hate that. No, some people love that. Some people hate that. What, you know,

spk_0 what it's a double vessel sink or a single vessel sink. I mean, that is a house divided doll.

spk_0 I mean, it is drama in there. I mean, it's so funny. The things that they've never

spk_0 thought of before or that have bothered them for their whole lives. Yeah. And it's different

spk_0 with every client. And so we always have a good time. One of those people. I feel like you need

spk_0 a hidden camera. Oh my god. I know. I would love to. I mean, I truly would love to do that.

spk_0 We should add some clients if we can do that because it would be so funny. It really is

spk_0 probably our most fun meeting. And we really start to get into budget then because we find out what's

spk_0 important because there are things where they're like, I have always wanted this. And then we get to

spk_0 the lamp page and they're like, um, okay. Yeah. All right. We're not going to create them.

spk_0 A dimmer switch. That's one of those things. We're like, oh, it is satisfying. It is so good.

spk_0 Dimmers are very polarizing. Oh, really? Yeah. I know. We didn't know. I thought everybody

spk_0 wanted to do different things. We have one client and he went and took them all out of her house.

spk_0 Not, I mean, this was pre us going in. So it wasn't that we put them in and she took them out.

spk_0 But she just wanted to it. The lights are on. The lights are on.

spk_0 Obviously, she don't have any options. Yeah. I know. Maybe she don't want that.

spk_0 I know. And we gave options. Okay. What she want? And you're house beautiful.

spk_0 It is. It is. It makes her happy. And that's the most important thing. You know, it's great.

spk_0 There was a reason that we were talking about love. I don't remember what I mean. She wanted

spk_0 to do more about the stuff. Yeah. So we did a good job. Yeah. Okay. How long does that meeting take?

spk_0 Like a couple hours. Okay. A couple hours. And if it's, I mean, if it's a bigger project,

spk_0 again, it goes into phases. Yeah. But we should not to ever have a meeting that's over three.

spk_0 Two is ideal. Yeah. Two is ideal. That's even we are lights. Oh my gosh. You know, that's just being on.

spk_0 Haven't got many decisions to be made in that amount of time. People can really exhausted. And

spk_0 yeah. Then they started just saying whatever. And if you get to the whatever, then you need another

spk_0 meeting. Yeah. Yeah. So three hours max typically too. But do you I take a yell like hearing the

spk_0 why behind. Oh yeah. Like that is so important for your rest. Absolutely. So important. Yeah.

spk_0 That's so so important. It's also really fun to watch. Like partners talk about it. They're like,

spk_0 you I do. I do. And it's really interesting to see them do that. But the why is that's the most

spk_0 important thing. Yeah. Because I said options and I'm mad at myself for saying it because it's not

spk_0 options on the table because there's way too many things on the table to actually happen in your

spk_0 house. Because we're going to pull more things. So if we if they pull out something, we also have

spk_0 a magic wand pile that happens during the love. Hey, I really like how this feels. But I'd like it

spk_0 in a different color. So if we could take a magic wand and change one thing about challenge.

spk_0 But interesting. So we learn the why then we are empowered to be able to make the why happen.

spk_0 I feel that this is turning into a card game. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. We also. Yeah. Especially if we're doing construction, we're like, you can throw

spk_0 the marble samples at us. I should be usually say Marcy and it's not very nice to Marcy.

spk_0 They don't ever do it. So that's good. But it is nice because I mean in that sometimes you've

spk_0 gone through their Pinterest boards. You've had all these conversations. You've read their

spk_0 questionnaire and still when you get in there, they're like, I actually hate that color. What I

spk_0 was talking about in this image was this one thing. Yeah. And you know, you try to find the

spk_0 consistencies and sometimes still until you're standing there talking in pictures and words together,

spk_0 it's not evident. And so that magic wand pile is what helps redirect us if need be towards that

spk_0 semi-final goal. And usually at least there's a big chunk that was in the direction. But sometimes

spk_0 the surprise weirdos that we throw on the edge as a just in case they really did like that funky

spk_0 thing or that thing we really think would be cool in their house. Sometimes then we pivot that way.

spk_0 And I think to all that also helps bring to the top, there's lots of different types of clients.

spk_0 Some want a lot more guidance, some want a lot more partnership and involvement. And that really

spk_0 comes to light in there too. And we try to I mean within our process, we try to identify about

spk_0 folks and cater to that as much as we can. Yeah. I want to add the end pile. We have an end pile.

spk_0 Oh, and an end or a leaf pile is what we call it because there are middle names that just,

spk_0 you know, they're just friends with everybody, you know. They're the people.

spk_0 You know, it can be Catherine and yeah, yeah, yeah, we're like that. You know, that just works.

spk_0 She's not the room starter, but she's good. Yeah. You know, that's an pile. Yeah. So it's something

spk_0 they don't maybe don't love or hate, but it's just like it there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's

spk_0 neutral. And you gotta have something like that. I think that works. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's about

spk_0 a restaurant. Yeah. Something to blend it. And it compliments it. You know, your name is

spk_0 Catherine. And Bailey, you've had that. But boop boop. Yep. Yeah.

spk_0 Thanks. We appreciate a good graduation name.

spk_0 Okay. How it does the process, it sounds like the process, like the funnel that you mentioned

spk_0 is the same regardless of scope. But is there anything about it that changes with scope? Like,

spk_0 is that time line? But like, yeah, time line's a big one. I mean, you know, if we're doing

spk_0 construction and furnishings, and that can be renovation or new construction and all that,

spk_0 then that will take a longer timeline. And sometimes we will run those as nearly parallel

spk_0 processes. Processes. I'm not sure. I just assesses different processes.

spk_0 But we'll run them almost parallel. So we'll start on construction. And once we get about two-thirds

spk_0 of the way through, we'll start furnishings so that we're kind of considering those things together,

spk_0 but no one gets totally exhausted. So sometimes we'll do all that, but just spread it out a little

spk_0 bit. Or it's a really large home. We'll need more meetings about similar things. So timeline does

spk_0 make a big difference. Trying to think what other ways it'll pivot. The deliverables change.

spk_0 Yes. Obviously. If we were doing a construction project, then there's construction document.

spk_0 Yeah. And there's election schedule. That was actually going to be my next question. Like, if

spk_0 they expect you to be meeting with the tile installer to make sure that that's installed properly,

spk_0 what level does that involve, I guess? So we, in the design phase, at the end of the design phase,

spk_0 there's a set of deliverables. And I assume most people work this way. They do construction.

spk_0 You'll have a set of construction documents and a selection sheet in your design boards.

spk_0 So you're providing the documents one like, this is what the tile? Where the tile goes, where the

spk_0 regionally architects will have gotten into that. But usually we do the coloring it into that

spk_0 extent. We call it coloring it. All coloring it. So we provide all of that stuff. And in the best

spk_0 situations, we do walkthroughs during construction along with them. As many as they want. We have what

spk_0 we recommend for sure is that we do a framing, a electrical and a mill work walkthrough.

spk_0 So that we can say where the lights which is go and things like that, because things always

spk_0 changed during construction. And where there is your advocate and just to make sure they were all

spk_0 now standing in the room. And it looked good and planned to put this light here.

spk_0 I don't know, gradient. So and so, Dodd and she left you a light and we switched it. And this

spk_0 looks better here, whatever. Yeah. And sometimes too, I mean inches or inches and sometimes a wall

spk_0 went in and it's six inches off. And you go through framing walkthrough and you go, okay, well,

spk_0 all right, that happened. What's the sacrifice to move it back? And we're going to have to

spk_0 wiggle that window. And so we can stand there and help problems all that. So you're not left,

spk_0 you're all on your own. Yeah. During that. Because, you know, we don't only be there as much as you

spk_0 want us to be, but there's some things that we really think we should be there for to help your

spk_0 life be better. Yeah. Yeah. And because you have the, like, you know, what the vision was, what the,

spk_0 what it's supposed to look like. And like, there are minutia to some of these questions that maybe

spk_0 the contractor's asking them. And they're like, I don't know. But that is a huge thing to know

spk_0 when you are building is that you should incan and earn power to call your designer when you have

spk_0 that stuff. You can look at your builder and say, please call the designer and ask them a question.

spk_0 What should happen? And what we say to our clients all the time is designer builder architect,

spk_0 your design team should figure out the after there's been a weird pivot. Some things happened.

spk_0 Then we should all figure it out and then present the options to you. You shouldn't have to do

spk_0 this. What you're paying for. Right. And it's going to be better. Let's be honest. Yeah. You do

spk_0 whatever you do during for a living. We got this. Yeah. And if all three are aligned, it's absolute

spk_0 magic. In most of the time it is. Yeah. Most of the time it is. I mean, one of our favorites. I mean,

spk_0 we do those three walkthroughs. And then they'll just call us on emergencies. And sometimes it's,

spk_0 and it's emergency. Yeah. No one's dying. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

spk_0 and honestly to occasionally, I mean, occasionally, I mean, we usually have really strong teams.

spk_0 But occasionally you have a turkey on the team and turkey. Yeah. You know, it's just going to be

spk_0 the nice or a pieca or pieca pieca is often it. And that individual doesn't want to do, which you

spk_0 want them to do. Then we can be your advocate. And you know, they didn't want to take those historic

spk_0 doors and figure out how to make them work in the house. But that's what that's what we specified.

spk_0 That's because that's what you wanted. And we'll stand there and look them dead. And you can be

spk_0 there. And do it too. Yeah. You're going to do it. And they can to be good pop. And you can be back up.

spk_0 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And was that one? Yeah. Something out. I am, I'm usually really nice. But

spk_0 when someone's shouldn't have been doing it, it's just a cross. Yeah. We just do it. Just

spk_0 easier to be someone else's pit bull. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously you talked about them.

spk_0 Construction takes time and you see it happening along and along. If it is a room just of decorative

spk_0 elements that are not stuck to your house, then those things usually all happen in one day or one

spk_0 couple of days. That's pretty fun. That's very thing. And so install or the design process. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're coming in and doing like the grand

spk_0 or ZLHGTV style. Yeah. Except we're not there. We sweep ourselves up back. We're

spk_0 meaning. Oh, I just come home. Yeah. I believe. I'm not only good things. A nice note. See.

spk_0 Do you don't want to see the reaction? No. No. Because what if they need a minute? Because we have

spk_0 had clients come home before. This is everything they want and hoped and dreamed for. And they walk

spk_0 in on install day and they're like, Oh, this is this is a big change in my life. Yeah. And it takes

spk_0 them 24 hours to be enthusiastic. You shouldn't have to worry about our feelings if that's where you are.

spk_0 My kids. I got stuff going on.

spk_0 That's actually not why we've done this obviously. Wait before that. But that was, um, it's really,

spk_0 it's a we want you to go and like sit and celebrate it with your family and be like, Oh,

spk_0 this is what you know, we have to it's for. I mean, we have a great relationship with all of our

spk_0 clients, but that we're not who it's for. It's for you. And so you should get to come home with

spk_0 your kids and whatever we were. Oh my gosh. This was so great. We were home recently in clients'

spk_0 kids came home before they did. And we were designing an area that was really kind of their space.

spk_0 And it was a real treat. That was that was actually really cute. It was an accident that we were

spk_0 still there. But um, not accident, but they can't. Oh my gosh. They were so precious.

spk_0 It's the sort of exciting space. Um, and we turned this kind of little found

spk_0 Eve into a little tea room for them. Well, actually, it wasn't supposed to be a tea room.

spk_0 It just turned into that on install day. Um, there's a little arbonal for that beautiful wallpaper

spk_0 in the vault of the Eve. It's so stinking cute. So it's kind of this color like it's lovely

spk_0 little blush. When the girls are wet like seven and four or something like that. Um,

spk_0 and they came running in and they saw that we had put in little accessory, um, tea set there.

spk_0 And they were like, yeah, it was and they went on that a few little hours for the hours weren't

spk_0 exactly right. They gave us a tea set and it was so cute. It was close. And they just found

spk_0 every little detail so exciting. It was so easily walked in and be like, this isn't my favorite color.

spk_0 Yeah. That's mom-a-picked it. So they loved it last week. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

spk_0 They absolutely adored it. That was so cute. So every now and then and we did we had one client

spk_0 who very much insisted that we be there. And if the in if that is what they do, you know, really,

spk_0 really wanted the, I mean, I guess we can make that happen. But that was where she

spk_0 cried. That was where the she cried. We cried. It was great. So I mean, occasionally, but

spk_0 yeah, and for some of the time we're out. Yeah. Morgan, we we send an email. We send the

spk_0 we out email when we're after install day and it's like, you're allowed to come back to your own

spk_0 home now. Yeah. And we are not there. There, there is some free to drink. Yeah. Come on home.

spk_0 Yeah. Oh my gosh. That is crazy. I didn't expect for you all to leave before they come

spk_0 but yeah, I mean, you know, our like experience, but that is seeing like any sheet TV show. So

spk_0 you assume that they're there. I like want to see that. But that does like for you.

spk_0 After you don't really do like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it would be pressure on them to

spk_0 be performative about how it looks. Yeah. And like their reaction to it. Yeah. Yeah. I get that.

spk_0 None of us are good at that anymore since the internet. Yeah. Being performers in person.

spk_0 We do okay. We do okay. Why it happened if you get to install day and they don't like it.

spk_0 Like is that ever happened? It's not loving that because it's weird. But like how would one

spk_0 handle that situation in this type of that? That is a crummy situation. We have had elements

spk_0 not been liked. Not the whole thing. Thank God. I think that's everyone's worst nightmare.

spk_0 Mm-hmm. The client obviously. But that's true because we have learned to love you and the whole

spk_0 process and all that sort of stuff. Also financially, that's not that angry. So that shouldn't

spk_0 happen because we've less than the whole time. We've measured things. That's been it.

spk_0 Uh, during COVID, we did some virtual outsourcing of measuring and there was one time something

spk_0 that like really didn't fit. Yep. That was bad day. But that was a holiday. So we, we yeah. And

spk_0 that's it. Most designers have a clause that's like you buy it. It's yours. But in that case,

spk_0 when it just straight up didn't fit. We do a debt. We don't just take up with us. Yeah. And then

spk_0 we're going to not hire that measuring team ever. Yeah. Yeah. We do. Yeah. We do try that's like

spk_0 with love, hate, and and peak behind the curtain that we talk about the red flags of something.

spk_0 Like if something is really weird, like it's just, there's a lamp that we love that we call

spk_0 the disease lamp or something super brightly colored or marble people sometimes are not sure

spk_0 about marble and how it how it functions. We try to go for the know on it so that we talk about

spk_0 how bad it could be for your life. Like nothing is weird. It's not weird ass lamp. It's really big.

spk_0 Are you sure? Um, so we don't we don't try to weasel anybody into anything. Yeah.

spk_0 To a piece hour equals because that just doesn't then we would. Right. You're not trying to talk

spk_0 to something. Yeah. Because then if they, yeah, if we took that risk, then we end up,

spk_0 then we end up having that awful conversation of it doesn't work. That subjective. So who's fault?

spk_0 Is it? Yeah. Um, do that's awful. I don't think that in most cases, there are so many options

spk_0 that you can find someone something that they're going to like. Yeah. This is the only lamp

spk_0 that would work here. So even if you don't like it, like we're using it, I mean, there's

spk_0 going to be something else. It's just that you'd rather do that. Yeah. Exactly. Um, so that's

spk_0 only happened to us a few times where somebody hasn't like a particular element of it.

spk_0 And we actually feel like it's not wrong. I think maybe yeah, maybe two other times max.

spk_0 And then it's just a super awful and comfortable question. Um, conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 And it's kind of case by case. Why? Once you leave, you send that we out email.

spk_0 What happens after that? Are there any situations in which like someone comes back to you or

spk_0 something it's saying they call you or like what is sort of the like after with those relationships

spk_0 are just as strong after that. So um, there is, we've got to finalize your invoice. So we're still

spk_0 different. You're in moist with all that sort of stuff, which hopefully isn't ever a surprise because

spk_0 we send updates every week about that. So this is usually just if, you know, like right now,

spk_0 prices going up for various reasons. Um, so that's happening. And then if you know a snag happens,

spk_0 I'm trying to think recently some automatic draperies, the one of the motors in it malfunctioned.

spk_0 Um, so those relationships should be just a strong she emailed us that this happened and we took

spk_0 care of it. And it's I think it's been fixed tomorrow. So those that should just that's part of it.

spk_0 Yeah. Um, and we're so sensational for that. And we're still, you know, like, I feel like it's

spk_0 an open door. I mean, we're still chatting with you. We're still friends. You can call us anytime.

spk_0 There's a photo shoot. Yeah. There's a photo shoot. Yeah. We love those. Yeah. Are those in the

spk_0 contract? Like is that something that someone should know going in like this is going to happen at

spk_0 the end? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Does anyone ever have issues with it? No. Typically, I mean,

spk_0 now if we are pitching it to a magazine, we always ask the client, you know, if someone wants to

spk_0 to publish it, for example, we talk to the client and say, do you want your name in this? Do you

spk_0 want your gender in this? Do you want any part of you involved in this? And some people want their

spk_0 names. They're totally comfortable with that. Some people are fine with just a portrait of them in it.

spk_0 Yeah. I mean, various publications want various stories. Right. Yeah. Like someone who

spk_0 used the homeowner element and others. Yeah. Right. So that's totally up to them. Yeah.

spk_0 That's totally up to them. Because we've had work published with portraits and we've had work

spk_0 published where no one even knows what their name was. Right. So, you know, we try to be respectful

spk_0 of it. This is their home, you know, but also it's our profession. So trying to find the perfect

spk_0 way where that is successful for everybody. Yeah. At what point does that happen? The photography

spk_0 of the scene would be awesome if it happened like a week after the install. That's too

spk_0 to be a dream. But that hasn't happened. It happens all over the place. Sometimes a year later,

spk_0 it just depends on what other stuff we have going on. Yeah. And whatever stuff they have going on.

spk_0 Like, I mean, sometimes we'll get through a project and let's say it was a three-room project,

spk_0 but we know in six months they're doing three more. So then that gets kind of pushed and pushed

spk_0 until we know we can go and shoot all day. Sometimes it makes sense if it's a kitchen to get in

spk_0 there and shoot it for a half day or something. So you can submit it to competitions or whatever.

spk_0 But for the most part, you know, we try to do it as close to install day as we can. Just so

spk_0 nobody's feeling like they're tipped-towing around their own house. Right. But for the most part,

spk_0 it's within six months, let's say. That's the goal. Have you ever gone into a house that you went to

spk_0 photograph like a year or six months later? And you're like, oh, they moved that there.

spk_0 I don't think we have a sad face. Sometimes there's a surprise face. You're like, hey,

spk_0 there's chairs up here. There must have worked on there for them. It's funny.

spk_0 Or somebody snatched it. I feel like a child took a chair once.

spk_0 No, no, no, in that way.

spk_0 That's good. I think coming from a designer, I like to move stuff around all the time.

spk_0 Yeah. How could they even control themselves to move things around? But no, not really.

spk_0 Yeah. Sometimes it's exactly how to do it. Yeah, that's amazing. I don't know who's

spk_0 around. Like exactly the box on the book on the it's right. Like they have to move the accessories.

spk_0 Yeah. That's shocking to me. And it's clean. I know. But there is a certain comfort in like,

spk_0 oh, this is how Kate and Latham thought that this box looked best. And I'm just they thought

spk_0 red tulips looked great in this way. So I'm going to just keep on. Yeah.

spk_0 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is funny. I mean, there are some that you

spk_0 walked into like years later. And this is exactly how we loved it. But what's cool is that it

spk_0 always has a some layer, not always, if there's kids and dogs, which they're often is there is

spk_0 a hair. And it's cool to see that they are actually able to live their life in space the way

spk_0 that they plant. And that's really, really fun. That's a special thing. Well, not an museum way,

spk_0 but in like a, I loved it. They did it right. Like I can just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we

spk_0 we put a bunch of stuff out. So it definitely doesn't look like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 Okay. What about you mentioned before sometimes they've done like three

spk_0 rooms and you know three rooms are coming. Talk to us about that a little bit because you,

spk_0 you know, I know that there are probably some designers who only do a whole house projects or

spk_0 some that do room by room. What does that look like? Yeah. I think a lot of firms have a minimum

spk_0 and we do to a certain degree. But I think I mean, we're in this for well, we're in this because

spk_0 it's a business. So we're making money here. But we're in this for relationships too. And you know,

spk_0 if it is a great fit and it's going to be a smaller project than maybe someone else's.

spk_0 But we know we're going to be together for a really long time and we really like each other

spk_0 and work well together. Then that's just as good as a one-wambam,

spk_0 whopper project, you know, because it's the same. It's just over time. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_0 I think a lot of that's a great question to ask when people are interviewing. Like what is,

spk_0 how do you define your minimum? I think is a good question. And what is your minimum? Is it,

spk_0 is it dollar related? Is it, is it square footage related? Do you only do do how do whole houses?

spk_0 And a ton of designers only do that. And I think ours is a little bit more objective in case by case.

spk_0 What I really don't like doing is picking is all we need is a chair in our living room,

spk_0 a light in our daughter's room, a runner and a pink color in that like wow, we don't just pick

spk_0 things. Right. And I don't think any designers are capable of just picking things. We look at a space,

spk_0 whether it's a house, a room, whatever, as a full composition and a lifestyle. So just like

spk_0 picking a chair, right. That makes a whole lot more sense to go to a resell store and talk to

spk_0 somebody about this is my situation. Can you help me find the proper chair or some, some designers do

spk_0 those, I don't know if you'll do this like the expert or something. Yeah. It's like a hourly consultation.

spk_0 Yes. Yes. Yeah. And we do that. We're on intro and we'll do that as well. And and that's been great.

spk_0 We've had a couple of folks on there would just have like three or four problems and they got

spk_0 30 minutes. And like, okay. And we'll get on there and their drapes are hanging there and

spk_0 like, do you, is this right? How should I him these? What's the height? You know, we can solve some

spk_0 problems like that. But if someone is coming to us as a full service design, we want to give them

spk_0 a full service design. And there's, there's all the same work involved in the picking because we have,

spk_0 because that the way that we approach stuff, this might be specific to us. I don't know. Is

spk_0 it we want to know who you are? Right. And how you work. So we still want to measure the space.

spk_0 We still want to do the questionnaire. So there's all that work upfront to just pick a chair.

spk_0 It's not worth it for the squeeze. I mean, there's yeah, you don't not the squeeze, whatever.

spk_0 It's a really expensive chair. It's a really expensive chair. Wouldn't buy a chair like that. Yeah.

spk_0 I just see. Yeah. I'm just going somewhere to come in and buy a chair. Yeah. But they might. Yeah.

spk_0 So, okay. And then what if we've worked together, we did three rooms and now move on to the other

spk_0 three rooms. Does that process look totally different? Because you've already done love hate. You

spk_0 kind of love hate specific. Oh, okay. It's specific. It's really specific. It's room specific. Okay.

spk_0 And human specific. So we've done layout for only the scope we did before. Right. So, um, so we'll do

spk_0 love hate again, but love hate usually goes faster. Yeah. Yeah. Because we do already know a lot

spk_0 more about you. There's a lot less to hate on the table. Yeah. When we're around to. Yeah. There's

spk_0 a lot less to do since this and those who she is. We have kind of, so we met them when they were

spk_0 doing their new build when Gordon Dunning was quite young. Um, and we picked all this,

spk_0 they picked. I shouldn't have said that. We helped them specify all the things for their help.

spk_0 And then we did their common spaces, their kitchen, their living room. That sort of stuff. Then

spk_0 we did their kids nurseries. Now we're doing their office. So we, those folks, we do do one room at

spk_0 time, but that's a man's fabulous.

spk_0

spk_0 But who lost his teeth and meetings are so quick.

spk_0 Like, she'll sit down and go, blue, huh?

spk_0 Why would?

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 You know, it's just exactly what we're going to do.

spk_0 It's very easy.

spk_0 So her thoughts are not two hours.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Except for catching it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 He's ever catching up.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Sometimes there's personality 30 minutes so we need the film to that too.

spk_0 What if the project is someone that like has a lot of good stuff that they like?

spk_0 Maybe not this question.

spk_0 But they are like buying a new house and they're like, okay, I had all this stuff.

spk_0 I have a whole house.

spk_0 It was fully furnished, totally done.

spk_0 But like now my space is totally different.

spk_0 I don't know what to do.

spk_0 I love puzzle solving.

spk_0 That's a common exception that designers are like, get rid of it all.

spk_0 I'll only work with you if you're doing all new furniture.

spk_0 There are probably some of those designers, though.

spk_0 Of course, though.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We are just not on that list.

spk_0 That's a great question.

spk_0 Ask people.

spk_0 But we will absolutely use your existing stuff and your mom is existing stuff and do whatever

spk_0 because that is what tells the story and makes it function and gives it life and death

spk_0 and all that sort of stuff.

spk_0 So part of our measuring, we send in the As well guys and they'll measure everything and

spk_0 we go through and measure and take pictures of things we could possibly use.

spk_0 Whether that's recover or just use it as it is and that's anything from everything.

spk_0 I mean, anything.

spk_0 An existing light fixture, we often come in and think what can we keep, what we'll give

spk_0 it life and death and story.

spk_0 Could you environment?

spk_0

spk_0 Because I think, you know, I mean, if your grandma's piece is not the most beautiful thing

spk_0 in the world, but it means something to you, that matters.

spk_0 And then they're anxious.

spk_0 They're like, this is really not worth keeping.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 But if they are in love with it, it makes their soul happy than it is and we don't get to

spk_0 define that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We'll just put other things around it.

spk_0 We can just put other things around it.

spk_0 It's not usually something.

spk_0 Or something.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It's not usually something to use.

spk_0 It's not something to use.

spk_0 It's something to use.

spk_0 Sometimes they're like that too.

spk_0 They're like, I need to keep this for sentimental value.

spk_0 I know it's not my favorite thing, but it's great.

spk_0 It'll go as the, you know, guest room beds on table then.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 They'll help us prioritize that too.

spk_0 And if it really matters to them and they think it's beautiful and we don't do that

spk_0 matter, we're going to put it in.

spk_0 You ever had to tell them you hate something?

spk_0 Mm-hmm.

spk_0 I don't think we've ever said that.

spk_0 That really bothers me.

spk_0 We have told them it doesn't work.

spk_0 Well, we have said like it doesn't work.

spk_0 That's typically scale related.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But yeah, it's not usually like you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, I'm just being you are asking them to be upfront with you about what they hate.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So I wasn't sure if it ever goes that way.

spk_0 Is where you're like, I have to be honest about something that.

spk_0 If it doesn't work.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like this, I mean, your grandma, Mastofa is so precious, but you have a huge living room.

spk_0 It looks like a dollhouse sofa.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So let's put it at the end of your bed.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Or something.

spk_0 Or let's recover it.

spk_0 Or something like that.

spk_0 But saying like this is dated.

spk_0 If it makes their heart full, then it's on dated for them.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Like that kind of thing.

spk_0 The thing that I think just appoints a lot of people and I totally get it.

spk_0 Is it if you have a lot of furniture, they think the design fees are going to cost less.

spk_0 But we are.

spk_0 I mean, if they come with existing furniture, got it.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Like, yeah.

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 So you put sure less furniture to the furniture and the decorative elements, all that

spk_0 stuff cost less because you need less.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 But we're still designing the same amount of thing, the same amount of stuff, whether

spk_0 you, whether it's for free, the table is free or not.

spk_0 We still got to measure it.

spk_0 We still got to lay it out in the room.

spk_0 We still got to see how it all works.

spk_0 So your design fees would be pretty much consistent.

spk_0 But the purchasing of the new pieces might be less.

spk_0 Well, it should be.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Because you already have a table.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 There's a thousand, four thousand dollars.

spk_0 I don't know what your table.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Well, I guess I'm thinking like, well, if you're recovering it and you're adding wallpaper

spk_0 and you're, you know, that also can add up to.

spk_0 So it's something.

spk_0

spk_0 But the tip for tat, if you've already got something, it won't cost less.

spk_0 But the design fee is still the same.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Because we're still looking at that as a, as a whole.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I think stinks.

spk_0 I acknowledge that that stinks.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But, but if you think about it this way, like how rewarding to now feel like, okay.

spk_0 Yes, maybe it's still cost a lot, but I got to incorporate this thing that I've been

spk_0 trying to incorporate.

spk_0 We've probably spent money buying things to go with it that didn't work.

spk_0 And I've wasted some things or bought some things that are wrong.

spk_0 And now I finally could write like someone getting right.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So at least there's a lot of people's existing things.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That gets, that gets really exciting.

spk_0 And I think some people get really nervous about it.

spk_0 They're like, I have this, but I don't know if you're going to like it.

spk_0 What about moving houses though?

spk_0 Because I imagine that is that can be challenging.

spk_0 Like what if the houses are actually totally different or a very different scale?

spk_0 Like they used to be in a historic home and now it's a great big new build.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's hard.

spk_0 That's a hard game.

spk_0 And that's what I give you for.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But I will say, I mean, and sometimes that you got to get the right artwork to help make

spk_0 it, you know, and position it in a proper way around the sofa so that it makes that

spk_0 sofa feel grander when, you know.

spk_0 So we play that game a lot.

spk_0 Um, but it is sometimes things have to go somewhere else and then that stinks and that

spk_0 happens.

spk_0 But I mean, that's something like somewhere really got an upgrade in your house.

spk_0 It's just that you're also going to have to upgrade.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I feel like a conversation that happens a lot in situations like that.

spk_0 But can we keep our existing stuff sectional?

spk_0 I don't really like there's nothing wrong with it.

spk_0 Here are the cons.

spk_0 You could fit more people in here and it could function better with this layout.

spk_0 But we understand that that sectional is free.

spk_0 They already own it and your kids are young and maybe it doesn't matter because you'll

spk_0 beat that up and you'll do this later.

spk_0 Or so we just make an educated, help them make an educated choice for it.

spk_0 So yeah, I mean, you can keep it.

spk_0 It's your life.

spk_0 Do you want to keep it?

spk_0 What there ever be a situation in which you'd be like, okay, we're going to design it.

spk_0 And then like the way we think it should work, you keep that sofa for three years when

spk_0 your kids are no longer playing with crayons, you call us and then we'll know, but we'll

spk_0 already know exactly like what fabric.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 Yes, that's right.

spk_0

spk_0 That happens a bit.

spk_0 So you'll do that.

spk_0 Oh, yes, for sure.

spk_0 Yeah, that makes sense.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, just sometimes the life phase for whatever reason is such that the new dining chairs

spk_0 don't procure new dining chairs.

spk_0 And we'll either put an inexpensive fabric on the seat or if one already comes with the

spk_0 slip seat, like with a natural linen or something on it, or just leave it like that.

spk_0 Let your kids bash it up.

spk_0 We'll do the fabulous velvet in a few years.

spk_0

spk_0 And they're like, you and I were talking earlier, like a couple years or like, I got 10.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 10 years I'll get another new fabric thing and it'll stay.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Around for longer.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 You mentioned art.

spk_0 What about shopping for art?

spk_0 Because I do feel like some designers approach things differently where like they don't necessarily

spk_0 shop for art for their clients.

spk_0 And then some do.

spk_0 So what does that look like?

spk_0 It's kind of client lead.

spk_0 I mean, we, we talk a lot about priorities, obviously, throughout the process, but some

spk_0 clients are like, I don't really know about art.

spk_0 And some it's important to some is so important to that they actually do want to make

spk_0 the selection.

spk_0 So in that case, and they do want it, they want to invest on it, but they want some guidance.

spk_0 And so we'll send them to some of our favorite galleries that we believe are consistent with

spk_0 their aesthetic, give them a few artists to follow and look at and interview.

spk_0 And then there are other ones that are like, here's my budget, fix it.

spk_0 And so in that case, then we'll actually select these specific pieces or commission the

spk_0 artist through us to create the pieces.

spk_0 But we're as involved as the client will allow us to be.

spk_0 I mean, we'd happily select everything in someone's house.

spk_0 And that people don't always want that.

spk_0 Sometimes we give them shopping rules.

spk_0 And you know, they're going on a big special trip sometime this year.

spk_0 I'm like, okay, well, when you go there, here's the size you need.

spk_0 Here are a couple different subject matters that might work.

spk_0 And then, hey, if you pick up something else, you know, maybe in about this size, that'd

spk_0 be great.

spk_0 And so then they'll get to come home with something that has their story and their

spk_0 experience.

spk_0 Sometimes they've been somewhere, didn't get anything.

spk_0 And then we go on deep dives and a number of different whether they're artists to

spk_0 commission something new or antique, serventage and pull things from all kinds of websites

spk_0 and local dealers and find them something that we're like, yeah, you can tell people this

spk_0 came from Paris.

spk_0 Yeah, it did.

spk_0 Not when you were there, but that's fine.

spk_0 No one needs to know.

spk_0 It's still part of your story.

spk_0 You know, it's really trying to keep a story.

spk_0 And that sort of stuff comes out and love hate usually because we will have pages of

spk_0 art that we are.

spk_0 Latham hates this word, but I don't know a better word for it.

spk_0 It was all decor.

spk_0 You know, so it would be, you know, maybe if they're really passionate about travel and

spk_0 if it's been a lot of time in India, we'll pull some like drugs that can hang on the wall

spk_0 or something like that.

spk_0 So there's not just like him just talked about.

spk_0 Yeah, like him up.

spk_0 Pull things for them to love and hate on and that that's what starts that conversation.

spk_0 And they're it's important to them and want to spend a lot of money on it or not.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And I mean, because of the work we're in, we have a lot of friends that are artists and we

spk_0 love to support them in any way we can.

spk_0 And when it's the right fit and there's a wide range of styles in there too.

spk_0 And so we love the opportunity to get to work with them and support them when clients

spk_0 let us lead that, but also, you know, to support our clients on whatever their artistic

spk_0 collection journey is.

spk_0 But we have one client who, um, her kids for their birthday, I mean, from infancy, what

spk_0 they get for their birthday every year is a piece of original artwork.

spk_0 So we only procured like two pieces of artwork for her house, everything else.

spk_0 She was just like, here you go.

spk_0 And we had another client who had an art closet.

spk_0 It was the most magical thing I've ever been in my life.

spk_0 And just open the door and there was just beautiful original artwork just stacked in

spk_0 her closet as if she were a gallery because she was like, I've just been waiting to do

spk_0 this, but I knew I love her.

spk_0 She was like, I don't want to put holes in them all.

spk_0 I want to put them in the wrong place.

spk_0 I know what I like artistically, but I don't know how to incorporate it.

spk_0 And so there was just like dozens of pieces of artwork in there.

spk_0 Oh, it was so exciting.

spk_0 I can't decide if I love that or hate that it's been in a closet though.

spk_0 That's what I'm not here for a long time.

spk_0

spk_0 I was like, and got her through the COVID.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 She was just like, I'm buying this and supporting this artist and doing this.

spk_0 And then she's like, no, this cause of full stuff.

spk_0 And I was like, I got a higher designer.

spk_0 Yeah, yeah.

spk_0 No, no.

spk_0 We were just waiting in the wings.

spk_0 It was on deck.

spk_0 I think yeah, yeah.

spk_0 All's ready.

spk_0 That's right.

spk_0 That was, that was a really fun.

spk_0 When we do have clients that love art, and often introduces us to new artists, which is cool.

spk_0 Do you ever have a situation where you're finishing a room and the art or there is blank space

spk_0 on the wall like it?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And it gives us heartbreak.

spk_0 And often we will bring something on approval that day on install day.

spk_0 Just to, okay.

spk_0 Me like, it could look like this though.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It looked like that.

spk_0 And here's the Christ thing.

spk_0 Yeah, just, just no.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And it could support the artist.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 What about leaving room in your budget for finishing touches?

spk_0 Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0 There's always an accessory budget in the invoice when they get their click.

spk_0 Um, it looks like a dollar mill.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 So when they go around,

spk_0 it's like, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It's going to be a dollar mill.

spk_0 And we have taken notes during the design process and in their questionnaire

spk_0 about things that tell their story.

spk_0

spk_0 Like little, little weird things.

spk_0 We love little weird things that we can do.

spk_0 Like objects, sit about.

spk_0 Like what do we talk about?

spk_0 Yes, but usually like,

spk_0 like,

spk_0 like, little stories that they tell.

spk_0 And then we like, tuck that back about some story.

spk_0 The only one I could think about is a very internal that turns into like,

spk_0 yes, turtle shells in the wall or something.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 Like, yes.

spk_0 Yes, exactly.

spk_0 And so we try to remember that sort of stuff.

spk_0 What was the thing that was scarlet?

spk_0 What was the scarlet one?

spk_0 I don't remember.

spk_0 I don't know,

spk_0 but sometimes just really quirky weird things will come out and love eight and

spk_0 like print off a weird photo and put that in the frame.

spk_0 That way for a cure to put out.

spk_0

spk_0 There's, um,

spk_0 there's one client who was really into wrestling.

spk_0 Um, like professional wrestling.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 And, um, they don't feel like they're kind of person at all,

spk_0 but they are very, very into art.

spk_0 And so we, I think you and I were in Paris and we picked up.

spk_0 We were beginning a lot of sketches and there was this

spk_0 riddle weird, um,

spk_0 line drawing of what you think of when you think of a wrestler.

spk_0 And I'm sure that there was a name for this type of rest of ones.

spk_0 You think not?

spk_0 It was a sync with, but then he had like a, like a mask on and

spk_0 the way that it was just a line sketch that we got in Paris.

spk_0 So it was so much like, but it was the most elegant drawing one could have

spk_0 a wrestler.

spk_0

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 In a real pretty frame and put it on their bookshelf and it stayed.

spk_0 And so there's like little winks.

spk_0 Oh, that was on.

spk_0 Lafayette was there.

spk_0 You got that.

spk_0 Lafayette was their dog.

spk_0 Um, and so we framed a portrait of Lafayette in there.

spk_0 Um, even though they are not traditional, it was really small, like a cute

spk_0 little,

spk_0 just a foil painting.

spk_0 No, it's fine.

spk_0 So like stuff like that.

spk_0 And we, so once they've paid for all their stuff,

spk_0 and we've started ordering, we lay, and we've held on to this in our,

spk_0 with our team, like, lay them, I get to do accessories.

spk_0 So we do all, well, you know, we'll go to scots.

spk_0 We'll go to, I mean, we'll, wherever the, the world does our or start and find

spk_0 weird little things.

spk_0 The thing that stinks or doesn't, depending on who you are in this situation,

spk_0 is that accessories are all returnable because they just show up on install day,

spk_0 you've never seen a lot of proof in the form.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 So they get to shop in their own house.

spk_0 Um, so it's a risk that we take.

spk_0 Um, but it makes sense because of the way that we procure them,

spk_0 we're usually like randomly somewhere and grabbing them.

spk_0 And they don't make sense a lot of times out of context.

spk_0 You have to see them on that set of books or whatever to be the one off thing

spk_0 or the perfect box on the coffee table or what have you.

spk_0 And you know, we, when we send the final invoice, then all those are

spk_0 items that itemized out.

spk_0 And so they can sit there and go, is that box worth that to me?

spk_0 Maybe because I'm so lucky.

spk_0 I'm one of the busier.

spk_0 Sometimes she likes herself like a real expensive ton of box.

spk_0 I do.

spk_0 I love.

spk_0 She loves a rich business of box.

spk_0 So much.

spk_0 And some people are telling me it'll be like $200 for like this big.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But it's so pretty.

spk_0 It's so pretty.

spk_0 Um, so okay.

spk_0 Sorry.

spk_0 The accessories budget is not built in on the front end.

spk_0 It is a layer that will be in the room, but you haven't paid for it yet.

spk_0 And then they're going to do pay a portion of it.

spk_0 So okay.

spk_0 And the way I don't, I hope it's okay to say.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So our, um, at the end of the design process, they, and let's just talk decorative.

spk_0 Because that's what we're talking about.

spk_0 Um, you get a full itemized invoice with a real hospital thing,

spk_0 including a line that says accessories and you pay 80% of that.

spk_0 And then the 20% is on the back end.

spk_0 And that 20% could morph based on having the accessories you keep or price goes up or down.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 She's got, should be real close to that 20.

spk_0 Um, so that's our budget when we're shopping.

spk_0 So they, they have approved, hey, it's going to be X number of dollars worth of extra stuff in this room.

spk_0 If the accessories budget, like a percentage of the room, like how does one,

spk_0 because I feel like that would be something that it's right.

spk_0 It'd be a hard pill to swallow for people.

spk_0 Oh, yeah.

spk_0 So I think it is.

spk_0 I always think it's going to be, but I think hopefully they've looked at our work and that's how they figured out that it's okay.

spk_0 But people usually don't.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 No, that's okay.

spk_0 That's how it finishes.

spk_0 Um, and we determine them by, it's, I mean, it's really case by case.

spk_0 We'll be like, okay, surfaces.

spk_0 How many surfaces are there?

spk_0 Is this room covered in bookshelves?

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Um, and everybody reads other candle now.

spk_0 So that's harder.

spk_0 Um, and how much do they care?

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Some people are put around people and some people aren't.

spk_0 Um, some people have a whole library full of books and don't need extra coffee table books on their coffee tables.

spk_0 Some people aren't closing.

spk_0 I, we don't like kindle and that's all I got.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But I have three different sets of bookcases in the home.

spk_0 And we, and we just guess.

spk_0 And we're like, yeah, I probably need a parking lot box.

spk_0 That's going to be something.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 I'm going to be a little bit higher than someone who's like, whatever, as long as they've only been to London and Paris.

spk_0 It's a lot easier because there's a lot of London and Paris.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 But we do have to tell their story and those things too.

spk_0 So like, well, if someone's recently been to Japan, we'll make sure that the coffee table book that we're putting there.

spk_0 If we're buying it is Japanese textiles or whatever.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And so we try to source based on what their questionnaire says, what we know about them through the process, etc.

spk_0 That's a great like, um,

spk_0 little tip that we've for someone not hiring an interior designer like great gift.

spk_0 Like, oh, just went on a big trip.

spk_0 Like, I'm going to buy you a coffee table book for that.

spk_0 I'm totally going to do that for my parents.

spk_0 I just can't buy them anything.

spk_0 They don't want anything.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Maybe I can buy them.

spk_0 You know what I mean?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Books are just in my hog parents are on.

spk_0 I know.

spk_0 But that's where to wrap on mothers.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Yes, it is.

spk_0 I get it.

spk_0 But it like a try something you know, something that like a book related to somewhere they went.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's really, really, really fun.

spk_0 Accessory shopping is a lot of fun.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And a lot of times people are like, yeah, thanks a lot.

spk_0 It's great.

spk_0 And we don't have to move the thing.

spk_0 And then if we could come and take the photos right after that.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's great.

spk_0 Are there any other places within the process that you should figure out?

spk_0 Like, we might be spending a little bit more.

spk_0 I just feel like I've watched enough of those like home renovation shows.

spk_0 To know that like you go in with a budget of X and whatever that is, it's going to be 15% more like an oops budget.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 An oops budget.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Like should should we factor in an oops budget?

spk_0 I think I think on renovation, for sure.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 For sure, definitely for all kinds of different things.

spk_0 What about a tariff budget?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I know.

spk_0 And that's what I want to nail down.

spk_0 It is really hard to nail down.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We have a conference call on this.

spk_0 Like about every month right now for one of the organizations we're in and it's kind of like lead.

spk_0 Oh no.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 That's a call.

spk_0 That's a great talk.

spk_0 I think we told you last month, that's now irrelevant.

spk_0 We have so many vendors who are eating some of it.

spk_0 And they're like eating some of it and then doing it later.

spk_0 So in a project.

spk_0 So right now, I don't know what's there.

spk_0 But right now, you don't need a tariff budget as a rule because people are

spk_0 honoring the fee that you paid.

spk_0 Whatever you paid will be honored.

spk_0 But if you drag, you mean the designer or the vendor?

spk_0 Like if you have quoted to your client, this table is going to be $500.

spk_0 Then the vendor is honoring it.

spk_0 So we don't have to.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Which is and that that just tends to be the trend right now.

spk_0 I do have implemented now, you know, but that will be our next white, not on our past swipes.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And it's, I think we think through the contingency budget and decorative projects.

spk_0 Where so we kind of take on that fear of somebody's like, I got $4 and we're like,

spk_0 it's going to be more like $6.

spk_0 So.

spk_0 But we do try to talk about money a lot throughout the process.

spk_0 And it's really important that we're comfortable with it.

spk_0 You know, and I was raising, you know, a time and a place in a family where that was rude.

spk_0 It is not rude.

spk_0 It is very important.

spk_0 It's only one of the only ways we can do our job well.

spk_0 And so we have to be very comfortable talking about money so that they're very comfortable talking about money.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And so sometimes we get a semi final and they have expressed interest in some things that that is going to blow their budget.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And so we just try to be very educational about that in that moment and say, Hey, this is the table you want.

spk_0 We need to understand that if you do this, you are not going to be in budget.

spk_0 And typically.

spk_0 As long as you've managed expectations and there is some some contingency in their bank account, then it's fine.

spk_0 Sometimes they go, Nope, that's all the money I've got.

spk_0 Let's reassess.

spk_0 And that's fine.

spk_0 It's just being clear about it so that no one's disappointed once they get that final bill.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 It sucks.

spk_0 We don't like the person doing money.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 And communication is actually something we definitely wanted to talk about today is I think a lot of people

spk_0 worry about communicating with their designer, communicate like communicate as much as you want to.

spk_0 Don't text and don't DM.

spk_0 That's a big big thing for us.

spk_0 You will not text you and we will not DM you.

spk_0 Not if you DM and go, Oh my God.

spk_0 So cute.

spk_0 That's like yeah.

spk_0 I'm not.

spk_0 That's right.

spk_0 But if you DM me.

spk_0 So last night, I was thinking about the kitchen and this kitchen that you just posted, I really like to do it.

spk_0 I can't go.

spk_0 So two weeks down the road, I'll be like, I know they said something about a kitchen.

spk_0 Did I dream it?

spk_0 Where was it?

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I can't get in my email.

spk_0 That's the only reason why.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's it.

spk_0 It's, um, it's so we can find your information and care about you.

spk_0 We can do our job well if you're emailing us or calling us.

spk_0 You can email all you want.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And our professional life is people's personal lives.

spk_0 And so we get that.

spk_0 And so they're thinking about us at 10 o'clock at night for the love of God.

spk_0 I am not thinking about you at 10 o'clock at night as much as I love you.

spk_0 But that's probably your right.

spk_0 It's not true.

spk_0 I'm a man thinking about them.

spk_0 But I'm also finally not parenting and working and doing all the things.

spk_0 And so if I get a ping on my text message, it's just going to put me in the ground.

spk_0 But you can email it at 3 a.m.

spk_0 You can email it at it.

spk_0 And you will look at it and you can't.

spk_0 What if you look at it at 5?

spk_0 But that's, I mean, just because of my own choices, but you can, you can email it anytime

spk_0 you want to.

spk_0 I mean, I think this is true of all just modern communication.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Email anytime you want.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 When we go to conferences and we tell other designers there are many of them that text their clients.

spk_0 And that is the conversation that you need.

spk_0 And that's the way you need to communicate with your designer.

spk_0 We're just not fit.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, and I think that's part of it is communication style.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Which is back to choosing somebody who's like your doctor and stuff.

spk_0 Kind of a tech.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Do what I text my doctor.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And some people would.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'm just not one of those people.

spk_0 And Tim, I like, I think everyone knows probably their own communication style.

spk_0 But like if you're someone that does not work on their own, it doesn't use their own personal email.

spk_0 Then don't work with a designer that only uses email.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 You know, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 And that's, I mean, there's tons of people in the world to work with to find somebody who's

spk_0 that's going to fit.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That business stuff is really important.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Anything else people should know.

spk_0 I think the only one was the quick question thing that people often have.

spk_0 Oh, yeah.

spk_0 And like a revisions where folks will want to change something.

spk_0 And in their mind, which I totally, totally get, can we just change this, this one element?

spk_0 Or can you tell me if this light fixture works?

spk_0 Again, we, we'd look at a full composition.

spk_0 So it takes time for us to get in your house.

spk_0 We talk about a lot of houses.

spk_0 So I got to remember who you, I mean, I, I know you are.

spk_0 And I'm like, wait, did they like a drawer microwave or not?

spk_0 They either headed or love that.

spk_0 I can't remember.

spk_0 So we got to get in there.

spk_0 And then we got to make the decision.

spk_0 So it takes a little bit longer to answer what is, what themes like a quick question.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 There are many quick questions.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Really aren't because we're considering so many different elements.

spk_0 And that's why you want us there.

spk_0 But I can also understand that that's frustrating.

spk_0 Just be like, I'm just asking you if this one is here or here that I hang the

spk_0 light fixture or like, woo, but if you do that, then that impacts how big that

spk_0 piece of artwork can be.

spk_0 And that's all the way to the body there.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 And then that, you know, I mean, there's just so many different elements that we're

spk_0 considering because that's our job.

spk_0 And so it's never quick.

spk_0 And so I hate that, but it just isn't.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I mean, yeah, I'm not going to add to that.

spk_0 Okay, I did that.

spk_0 You did a great job.

spk_0 Oh, pretty.

spk_0 Oh, thank you.

spk_0 Thank you so much.

spk_0 You too.

spk_0 Anything else?

spk_0 I mean, no, I mean, you said misconceptions,

spk_0 quick questions and picking, right?

spk_0

spk_0 There was other misconception.

spk_0 There was covered it somewhere in there.

spk_0 We're not scary.

spk_0 Like what would be realized what way else should I?

spk_0 What layout would be good in here?

spk_0 Like what's it?

spk_0 Like what's a quick vision?

spk_0 Like what's your vision?

spk_0 But I think we talked about that when we were talking about like,

spk_0 like you're walking into a room and immediately knowing what you go in there.

spk_0 You have to wait.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 We got to know who you are.

spk_0

spk_0 For the story process.

spk_0 You are you.

spk_0 Yes, you're life.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Oh, and I will say they're, I'm not saying that there are no

spk_0 developmental designers on the road because they are.

spk_0 But another thing is when you are inviting us into your home,

spk_0 we get a lot of when we're first walking in someone's house, I'm sorry.

spk_0 It's such a mess.

spk_0 I did it.

spk_0 If your house was perfect, we would not have a job.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 We do not expect it to be impeccable when we walk in.

spk_0 We don't.

spk_0 We didn't.

spk_0 Exactly.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 So yeah, we're there to help.

spk_0 So hopefully it's a little off.

spk_0 Some way, otherwise we don't have a job to do and then we're not going to get paid by you.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 I'm saying, but I think knowing that, you know, we're coming in with

spk_0 problem solving eyes, not judgmental eyes.

spk_0 Right.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Hopefully, hopefully everybody's like, yeah, yeah.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 All right.

spk_0 I think we covered it all.

spk_0 I think we did.

spk_0 I know.

spk_0 I'm sure what we might, you know what?

spk_0 We might get some questions from some from some listeners.

spk_0 I'm tongue tied.

spk_0 In which case we'll have you back.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Yeah, I'd be too.

spk_0 Well, that's all anytime.

spk_0 Of course, always a tree.

spk_0 They're making this.

spk_0 Oh my gosh.

spk_0 This is so fun.

spk_0 Do you feel a little bad that we talked a lot about our process?

spk_0 So everybody's is different.

spk_0 I mean, everybody's process is different.

spk_0 And I think, you know, there are some central elements, but I hope it gives folks

spk_0 enough to be dangerous enough to have questions asked when we get to other firms too.

spk_0 All right.

spk_0 We'll tell everyone where they can find you.

spk_0 Follow you.

spk_0 See your work.

spk_0 Oh, yes.

spk_0 The probably the most fun place to follow us is on Instagram as we are a very visual

spk_0 business.

spk_0 And our handle is Gordon Dunning, G-O-R-D-O-N, and then running with the D is in

spk_0 dog.

spk_0 But just always, I'll we have to spell it to everybody.

spk_0 But just like you can tell them.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And then there's the world wide web.

spk_0 You could go there.

spk_0 W-W-W-W-D-D-G-O-T.

spk_0 Gordon Dunning.

spk_0 Duh-Duh-Duh-C-O-N.

spk_0 Yes.

spk_0 Where else?

spk_0 I don't know.

spk_0 And we have a newsletter you can sign up for on there.

spk_0 We only buggy about once a month until you go.

spk_0 That's not true.

spk_0 It's once a quarter.

spk_0 We try our best.

spk_0 We did take the summer off.

spk_0 So intentionally.

spk_0 But there's all kinds of happenings and book recommendations and podcasts

spk_0 recommendations on there for folks that can even.

spk_0 Sure.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 To live.

spk_0 That's next month.

spk_0 This is me, G-P-Key.

spk_0 Where else can you find the true?

spk_0 Oh, intro.

spk_0 Oh, yeah, we're on intro.

spk_0 Yep.

spk_0 What else?

spk_0 You could do it.

spk_0 They could do a consultation fee with you.

spk_0

spk_0 Absolutely.

spk_0 I'm sorry.

spk_0 But what do you call it?

spk_0 A consultation?

spk_0 I think it's called consultation.

spk_0

spk_0 Like a couple of hours that they had a few quick questions.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Absolutely.

spk_0 That's it.

spk_0 So don't have that.

spk_0 They would sit and be like, so here's the situation.

spk_0 Think of it as you're telling everyone the characters.

spk_0 So you have a new friend and you're like, listen, like my sister is a booty head

spk_0 and she drives me crazy.

spk_0 And the friend is like, well, what was she like growing up?

spk_0 Like you need to give the characters.

spk_0 Yeah, there's going to be some of my moms like this.

spk_0 And okay, now I totally get it.

spk_0 We need the characters.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 That's why I sent a good question.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 A good back story.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 And we, as we talk about often on the show, inches matter.

spk_0 So like, like you can't just say, this is how we're

spk_0 to hang it or whatever.

spk_0 Like sometimes things are tight and you got to, yeah, you matter a lot.

spk_0 Like, yes, inches and money, Matt, a bullet in a sentence.

spk_0 And a meter's two.

spk_0 We'll do metric.

spk_0 And it says, I mean, I like the person.

spk_0 I'm on phone.

spk_0 You know, you just do that.

spk_0 Oh my lord.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 That's our show.

spk_0 There you go.

spk_0 Anyone's centimeters.

spk_0 And that's our show.

spk_0 You can find all of the show notes on our blog.

spk_0 How to decorate.com slash podcast to send in a decorating dilemma.

spk_0 Email your questions to podcast at ballarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space.

spk_0 And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

spk_0 Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

spk_0 So you never miss an episode.

spk_0 And please leave us a review.

spk_0 We'd love to hear your feedback.

spk_0 Until next time, happy day.

Ep. 434: Demystifying Interior Design with Gordon Dunning

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