Ep 237: The AI Field Guide: A Playbook for Nonprofit Success with Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Contee

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 So I often say that nonprofit leaders who are in the business of changing the world

spk_0 have this tendency to be change resistant. Maybe it's a need for something in their lives to remain

spk_0 steady. Maybe it's risk of Earth's boards. Those are two hypotheses you can add your own.

spk_0 But AI presents exponential change. It feels really big, really turbulent, and complex.

spk_0 But make no mistake. It is and will continue to be a game changer. And its ability to process massive

spk_0 amounts of data in real time and its capacity to transform that data into decision-making,

spk_0 predictions, and insights of scale. For me, the game changer is in freeing nonprofit staff up

spk_0 to become more visible and vocal champions for their cause. We need them to be that

spk_0 through the building of deep relationships that are essential to create a large, engaged,

spk_0 fully invested ecosystem of investors. But where to start? I'm going to suggest that you start

spk_0 with a purchase of a new book that is a little bit of a one-stop shop. Editors and guests today,

spk_0 Darian Rodriguez-Hamen and Cheryl Conti sought out the best in the brightest, offering insights

spk_0 and practical advice from different and diverse perspectives. If you've ever said,

spk_0 I just really need to know so much more about AI and I'm not sure where to turn.

spk_0 Well, I have your answer. Today we'll chat with the editors who will help you imagine what is

spk_0 possible. And in a world feeling more than just a little bit dark, that feels like a pretty great

spk_0 exercise. Welcome to nonprofits or messy with Joan Gary and Experts. This podcast is your go-to

spk_0 space for insights, advice, and inspiration designed to help nonprofit leaders overcome challenges

spk_0 and drive impact. Whether you're navigating small beginnings or leading a larger organization,

spk_0 we're here to support you every step of the way. Together with Joan and a diverse group of expert

spk_0 guests, we tackle the big questions nonprofit leaders face and offer actionable advice to fuel your

spk_0 leadership journey. A special thank you to Donor Perfect for sponsoring this episode and supporting

spk_0 nonprofits that we love. Now let's jump in!

spk_0 Darian is an accomplished author, fundraising, and philanthropy consultant. He is the best-selling

spk_0 author of nonprofit management 101, which is sitting on my bookshelf and ought to be sitting on

spk_0 yours. He is the former executive director of the Craigslist Foundation and a sought-after

spk_0 keynote speaker at social impact events around the world. He can be reached directly via his website

spk_0 helpingpeoplehelp.com. Cheryl Conti is a pioneering technology entrepreneur and digital transformation

spk_0 expert. She is the best-selling author of Mechanical Bowl, How You Can Achieve Startup Success.

spk_0 She is a trailblazing startup founder and a trusted advisor on digital,

spk_0 innovation, and social impact. She inspires audiences globally as a leading voice on

spk_0 inclusive entrepreneurship and social enterprise. You can find her at AI, the number four N-P-A-I

spk_0 for nonprofits.org. First of all, welcome to you both. Thank you for bringing this all together

spk_0 in a single volume to read, to reference, and to help leaders maximize living as you wrote

spk_0 on the jagged frontier of this technology. Welcome, Cheryl. Welcome, Darian. Thanks for having us.

spk_0 Thank you so much. So there are lots of different books out there on AI, right? I mean,

spk_0 if I Google it, if I go to Amazon, I see quite a number of them. Why did you dedicate your efforts

spk_0 to write another one? Tell me about the origin story of the book and of your collaboration.

spk_0 And maybe I actually would start with Darian here and then have Cheryl Chiamin.

spk_0 Yeah, sure. You know, I think, especially at the time when Cheryl and I decided to write this

spk_0 book, there had been a couple books out there from Beth Cantor and Aflo Bruse, both of whom contributed

spk_0 to this project. But they all came out before Chatsy BT in November of 2023. And so they were

spk_0 largely more focused on some of the philosophical issues. You know, are the robots coming to take

spk_0 our job? How do we remain human centered in an AI driven world? And what we saw was that after

spk_0 the release of Chatsy BT 3.5, there was a sea change and people just sort of recognized like,

spk_0 okay, this isn't up for debate anymore. This is coming. It's here. And, you know, we need to

spk_0 start thinking about how can we responsibly use AI as a tool to support our work with fundraising,

spk_0 with marketing, with programs, and with back office. And that tactical practical tips and tools

spk_0 book hadn't been written yet. And so we were really excited to work on that. I think since then,

spk_0 Nathan Sheppell wrote a book, who's also part of our book project. And that's kind of coming from

spk_0 more one voice, whereas we interviewed 57 different people, as you mentioned, and really talked to

spk_0 all the different experts to get lots of different perspectives on the tactical and practical side of

spk_0 AI adoption. Awesome. Cheryl, what might you add there? You know, I was at the Nonprofit Management

spk_0 Institute at Stanford University. I'd gotten an invitation and I'd saw that Darian was speaking.

spk_0 I was like, oh, it'll be really fun to catch up with Darian post COVID. You know, we did have

spk_0 that chance. And he mentioned, hey, you know, I'm going to be, you know, writing this book. I had

spk_0 probably mentioned Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica in the sentence before he said this.

spk_0 He's like, hey, do you want to work on this book? AI for nonprofits with me, nerd, super nerd.

spk_0 And I said, yes, you know, obviously, you know, I saw I see AI as a great opportunity for

spk_0 organizations and their leaders to go to the next level, you know, of what you can do. I mean,

spk_0 AI, it's like having a super smart intern, right? You know, there's almost nothing they can't do.

spk_0 You know, they can work 24 seven. They don't need a coffee break, but they need supervision.

spk_0 You need to have that human in the loop, right? And so, you know, we see the entire book

spk_0 as you nonprofit leader executive director, you know, CEO, board member, you know, you are that

spk_0 human in the loop. And you know, in this book isn't meant to be read as a, you know, cover to cover.

spk_0 It's really meant to be a field guide, right? Like a playbook. And you scan, scan, right?

spk_0 Scan the table of contents, you know, zero in on the, you know, what are the tasks that are,

spk_0 my team are struggling with that are repetitive, they're time consuming, they're expensive,

spk_0 they're tedious, you know, how do we use AI and bring that into our workflow such that we can

spk_0 remove all of those things and bring back, as Darian said, you know, the human connection and the

spk_0 human in the loop. So I love the idea of a field guide. And honestly, when I heard that Darian

spk_0 book was on pre, when the book was on pre order, I went to Amazon and looked at the table of

spk_0 contents. And I thought, wow, this covers such a diversity of issues that nonprofit leaders face.

spk_0 And you can, you know, just like Matt, honestly, just like your first book, Darian, and I could

spk_0 pitch that one because I think I have a chapter in it, but as you can pick and choose, it's,

spk_0 it's, it's there for the particular topic you need. So I'm, I'm totally about that. And

spk_0 show, what would you say is, so you know, you could have picked 50 authors, you could have picked

spk_0 60 authors like, you know, there's so many people out there that have so much thoughtful insight

spk_0 to add here. Do you see any kind of a thread that pulls the work of the writers all together?

spk_0 Absolutely. And of course, there are so many people, you know, the book is already gigantic. So

spk_0 if you, you know, if you get it physically, it's big. You know, so we had to narrow in, but yes,

spk_0 there are a lot of amazing voices. But I think the thread, the ties all of these voices together

spk_0 is that AI isn't just about technology. Ultimately, it's about people. And, you know, every contributor

spk_0 in our book, every expert, you know, whether they're talking about strategy or fundraising or,

spk_0 you know, legal affairs or ethics, they all center back to the concept that AI should free us

spk_0 to do more of what matters most to us. You know, most of us are in this, right, to advance society,

spk_0 to make the world a better place or at least a slightly less terrible place. You're in this to serve

spk_0 your community, you're in this to serve your community, right? You want to build trust with those,

spk_0 you know, who you're trying to benefit, you know, that's what AI should free us to do more of.

spk_0 And that's the heartbeat of this book and every chapter and every contributor feels that same way.

spk_0 And if I can jump in real quick, because I think there's, there's, uh,

spk_0 and by the way, would show them how, show them how big this book is, would you?

spk_0 That's our, that's our, that's our baby. Yeah, so the side, it's, that's small, but that's because it's

spk_0 chock full of resources and really helpful tactics. And I think, you know, Cheryl really talked

spk_0 about some of the strategic and the philosophical throughputs that are in basically every part of the

spk_0 book on the tactical side, what's really interesting is that there was also a kind of a common

spk_0 denominator. And whether you're looking to deploy AI for fundraising or, uh, you know, to evaluate

spk_0 and enhance your programs or whatever the use case may be. And that's sort of all the different

spk_0 chapters in the book. Almost every single chapter spoke to the need on a tactical level to actually

spk_0 write down some kind of policy or just take a moment to reflect on your goals, reflect on the,

spk_0 the guardrails that are necessary, reflect on the, the data that needs to stay secure.

spk_0 And put down some thoughts on paper about what is acceptable and what's not and why. And that

spk_0 iterative and dynamic process is really at the heart of responsible AI adoption. It's taking the

spk_0 time to invite intentionality into the process, just like we do with our board meetings, when those

spk_0 go really well, it's because we take the time to structure an agenda and make the best use of

spk_0 everyone's time and AI has that same ability. Well, I think there are a lot of nonprofit leaders

spk_0 that would like to see board meetings go really well. Would like to see their organization

spk_0 be one in which people are doing the work that is the best and highest use of them, right?

spk_0 And I think that's part of what I see as the promise of in the work of nonprofits.

spk_0 Darien, when you and I spoke, we talked about some themes and some trends. And you talked,

spk_0 you used some cowboy metaphors. The Wild West, I think came up. Can you talk a little bit more

spk_0 about that? Yeah, I mean, I think the reality is, you know, people are a bit freaked out. We've had

spk_0 a lifetime, Sharon, I aren't the only nerds out there. Like we've all seen the terminator. We've

spk_0 all seen a lot of these dystopian future. No, I have not seen the terminator. All right, well,

spk_0 maybe we have an all. I'm a different kind of nerd. I am a different kind of nerd. And we can,

spk_0 that maybe that's a topic for another podcast. We can do that in another podcast,

spk_0 no problem. But yeah, what I would say is that, you know, we have had this, this vision of a

spk_0 dystopic future, you know, fed to us for the last several decades now. And it's at the core is sort

spk_0 of technology gone awry. And that is a legitimate concern. And that's why we need these guardrails.

spk_0 But the reality is, I think in large part, because it's so foreign, because people don't understand it,

spk_0 and they have some fears. For the most part, what we're seeing across the nonprofit sector is

spk_0 the vast majority of organizations have their heads in the sand around AI adoption. And they have

spk_0 not really taken an organizational stance or strategy where they've really taken the time to

spk_0 reflect on, you know, what do we want to use this tool for? What are the redundant processes that

spk_0 we could streamline or automate? How can we expand our effectiveness and serve different audiences

spk_0 that speak different languages? Whatever it might be, how do we enhance board development internally,

spk_0 all those different use cases? And instead of putting thought into that, everybody's just basically

spk_0 saying, oh, maybe this thing will go away or blow over, we're busy. We don't really have time to

spk_0 think about this. And the reality is, you know, if you do want to get serious, it's not that complicated.

spk_0 It is as simple as taking some time to write a policy and a strategy on paper, ideally, especially

spk_0 if you're dealing with sensitive data to create a custom large language model or GPT. So you've got

spk_0 a little playpan, a sandbox within which you can play and you know that the data is secure.

spk_0 You know, most people don't realize if they put some donor data into a chat GPT prompt,

spk_0 that is becoming part of the training data for the next generation. And we can't have that if we're

spk_0 dealing with HIPAA records or donor records or whatever sensitive data it may be, it has to stay

spk_0 secure. And that's not that complicated. But that's what happens if you don't have a policy and

spk_0 you're not thoughtful about this stuff. I might have been at that same, if not the following year,

spk_0 Stanford Conference. And Beth Cantor was doing a workshop. I've known her for years. It was the

spk_0 first time we ever actually met IRL. It was fabulous. And I think about folks like Beth Cantor

spk_0 and Amy Sample Ward. And I wonder, Cheryl, if you could talk a little bit to maybe their

spk_0 contributions in this book. And what I've really learned from Beth is about the ethics of AI.

spk_0 And sort of what, how you peel all the layers of that onion. So I'd love to hear what you learned

spk_0 in working with all these different people about the ethics of AI. Because that's a whole

spk_0 follow-axe. We really put a lot of focus on that in AI for nonprofits because in talking to

spk_0 nonprofit leaders, philanthropic executives, etc. We heard a lot about that, right? That that was

spk_0 a big concern. Beth Cantor is an old friend of both Darien's and mine. We were thrilled that she

spk_0 agreed. She's been a leader, obviously, as Darien mentioned in this in the field of the smart

spk_0 nonprofit. How do you start to think about AI adoption? And in our book, Beth really zeroes in on,

spk_0 AI has to balance opportunity with care, right? So it can save time. Sure, that's great. But not

spk_0 at the cost of privacy or bias. We should expect and do better than that. And then Amy Sample Ward,

spk_0 of N10, she's amazing. Her team is great. I've always been a huge fan and supporter of that

spk_0 organization along with Darien. Amy's chapter really pushes us to ask, well, who benefits

spk_0 from AI? And who gets left out? And at the end of the day, nonprofits are in that trust business.

spk_0 That's a big part of your brand, of your promise, your contract, if you will, if I can reference

spk_0 through so and be all fancy like that. Yeah, you want people to, yeah, you want to trust people

spk_0 need to trust and have that, you know, that contract with that nonprofit that we're supporting you

spk_0 either with our name, putting it on a petition. You know, we're showing up in person at a protest,

spk_0 right? We are giving you our money. You know, so ethical AI is not optional for nonprofits.

spk_0 It's how we protect and treasure that trust while embracing innovation, you know, with your donors

spk_0 and supporters. Darien, anything you want to add to that? I just want to plug in 10 for the

spk_0 contract we signed with them because they came on board as our fiscal sponsor for the AI for

spk_0 nonprofits, digital learning, her hub that you mentioned before at AI4MP.org, as well as the

spk_0 national learning lab series. We're doing about a dozen different conferences in major cities all

spk_0 around the US and that's all happening under intense nonprofit banner. Fantastic. You know,

spk_0 it's, it's interesting. This whole idea of intentionality and actually stopping and saying,

spk_0 what do I need to know to traverse these turbulent shark infested waters that now seem to have

spk_0 pirates in them? It's anathema to nonprofit leaders to stop, right? And I feel like if you're

spk_0 listening to this podcast right now, you've stopped, right? You've stopped. And I just want to say

spk_0 thank you for that. And, but I want you to see this as an appetizer, right? I want you to see

spk_0 it as an appetizer and say, wow, that's interesting. I could buy that book and even if I only read

spk_0 Amy Sample Awards piece, the, the Hebrew word would be, dyaneu, that would be enough, right? But

spk_0 this is the best in the brightest, the cream of the crop who have been assembled for you, right? And

spk_0 I really been thinking a lot about this lately that there is such a huge posse of people like

spk_0 you, Darian, and Cheryl Beth, and Amy Sample Award and Alisa Fine, and the 50 plus other people that

spk_0 have contributed to this book. Why have they done that? They've done that because they actually

spk_0 really give a shit about making sure that you as listeners are successful, that you don't burn out,

spk_0 that you spend your time doing the right things that fuel you, fuel the impact of your work,

spk_0 build sustainability for your organization, and keep your job satisfaction high and retain you

spk_0 as great leaders. That's what this work is all about. And there are, I just, sometimes it's just

spk_0 worth stopping and remembering how many people are on your team with you. So I put my little

spk_0 soapbox away. So we've talked about it. AI for nonprofits, edited by Darian and Cheryl, easily

spk_0 found on Amazon or wherever you find your great nonprofit books. It's a compendium, a field guide,

spk_0 terrific writing, terrific experts, and if I can steal a phrase that I don't use often, a big beautiful

spk_0 book. Now, imagine I'm a very busy nonprofit leader, okay? How would the two of you suggest I use

spk_0 this book to its best advantage? So when I wrote my book, I'm not plugging my book, but I pictured a

spk_0 brand new executive director picking it up and saying, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need to get

spk_0 the lay of the land for this new gig. And I wrote it because I wrote the book I wish someone had

spk_0 handed to me. Give us some thoughts about how a leader, a board, a staff could use your asset

spk_0 to begin to syndicate the power of AI into their organization in a way that is feels

spk_0 relatively reasonable is not too heavy a lift. Darian, what you go first?

spk_0 Yeah, I mean, I think Joan, you're speaking directly to like my formula because this book is

spk_0 just like the last two books in terms of the format where I, you know, we interviewed, in this case,

spk_0 57 experts across all these different topics. And we created a consistent framework and chapter

spk_0 structure to really unearth and highlight the most salient and actionable tips. So, you know,

spk_0 the term you kept using is field guide. And that's exactly what it's intended to be. It's an

spk_0 owners manual. And just like the last books covered all aspects of nonprofit management and nonprofit

spk_0 fundraising, this one covers all aspects of AI for nonprofits. And the idea is, you know, certainly

spk_0 you could read it, cover to cover. And there is a logical progression. But to Cheryl's point

spk_0 earlier, it really is, you know, a reference manual. And so if you're looking to deploy AI powered

spk_0 fundraising and start to put it to work with your grant writing efforts or with your major donor

spk_0 cultivation efforts, there's chapters for that. If you're creating content to support marketing and

spk_0 social media and you want to use AI tools to analyze your social media presence and optimize it,

spk_0 there's chapters for that. And so, you know, the reality is you can read any of these chapters in

spk_0 about 20 or 30 minutes, just like the other books, each of which is backed by a resource review

spk_0 where you can dive deeper if you want to go, you know, more into that topic. And then there's a

spk_0 whole resource guide at the end with about 200 resources. And so, you know, the premise, I think,

spk_0 to your question about how to really digest this, if an organization wanted to sort of, you know,

spk_0 tackle the whole elephant is, I think it's in bite-sized pieces to your point. We're all super busy.

spk_0 And one of the things that came up in multiple chapters is the importance of creating a culture

spk_0 of innovation within a nonprofits. And so, that could look like a weekly or even just a monthly

spk_0 meeting where one person leads a discussion on one chapter and they spend 20 or 30 minutes reading

spk_0 it. And we can have a discussion with our peers about, hey, let's talk about CRM. Let's talk about

spk_0 AI-driven fundraising. Let's talk about how to use this with our board. Here's some ideas that

spk_0 were shared in the chapter. Here's some thoughts that I have. What do you all think? And then,

spk_0 ideally, we put a couple thoughts on paper and we go from there, right? So, it's all about helping

spk_0 get people started with, you know, a critical but minimal amount of effort so that they can show up

spk_0 and then decide where to go from there and just get the journey started, which is so critical to

spk_0 every use case that's outlined in there. I want to hear from Cheryl, but I also just want to say it's

spk_0 sort of an ironic that a book that has how many pages, Darian? I think it's about 600.

spk_0 600? Yeah. Yeah. So, 600 book page book can be used in Bite-sized pieces. I love that. Cheryl,

spk_0 the question goes to you as well. Sort of how does a leader or a board or a staff begin to use

spk_0 use this book to get the conversation started and moving? Anything you'd add to what Darian said?

spk_0 Sure. Look, AI adoption doesn't have to be overwhelming. We're actually in a moment right now

spk_0 of plateau, in part because there's a concept called compute, right? We're almost at the edge

spk_0 of what super computers, how fast they can go, how many we have. So, this is actually a great time

spk_0 to take a breath and sort of get the lay of the land. And you want to start with your mission,

spk_0 not the tech. Who are you and what's important to you? And look, be start small, get those quick

spk_0 wins. Use AI to support people, not replace them. We know that that's a big fear among teams.

spk_0 One of our chapters actually is called selling AI upstream and downstream in your organization.

spk_0 And at first, it was just upstream. We thought that like social media, middle people in the middle

spk_0 or team members might have trouble selling it internally. And instead, we heard from many

spk_0 nonprofit leaders who said, oh no, I'm down. I'm ready to rock. It's my team. That is really

spk_0 worried because they don't want to lose their jobs. A lot of team members also talk about ethics

spk_0 and environmental concerns. Of course, you want an AI policy that puts guardrails around ethics

spk_0 and data. But in terms of if you have some ethical issues with some of the companies that are leaders,

spk_0 there are lots of mission driven startups from our community like posterchild.ai or change agent

spk_0 AI, which are both startups that I am a senior advisor that are really focused on providing

spk_0 services and tech specifically for nonprofits like yours and share your same values and have built

spk_0 those values into their tools. And then on the environmental side, look, California, you know,

spk_0 where Darian and I live is now the largest economy in the world that is mostly clean energy. It's

spk_0 actually two thirds of our energy comes from clean sources. The Netherlands is now at 50%.

spk_0 So, you know, the good news is that the cost and the power of clean energy is rapidly going,

spk_0 the cost is going down rapidly. The power is going up and accelerating. So, you know, I think that

spk_0 problem is the problem that's going to fix itself in the next few years. So, you know, again, just

spk_0 to finish, you know, I would say, look, you know, AI should create space for us to do the work

spk_0 that only human beings can do. Right? Everything else can be done with AI. So, how do you lead this

spk_0 adoption process with urgency, right? You need to get there using AI is not an option.

spk_0 So, how do you get there ethically with empathy and with creativity? Love all of this. And so,

spk_0 I am so down on this idea of a culture of innovation. And, you know, I thought we had it during the

spk_0 pandemic, what challenging times make possible. And I fear, and I've seen too many examples of

spk_0 us not being able to hang on to it in the way that I had hoped that far too many, I think far too

spk_0 many risk adverse boards pushed people, pushed organizations back to, you know, business as usual,

spk_0 which was not great, you know, not not not everything it was cracked up to be to begin with, right?

spk_0 Piloting, innovation, trying things, building proof of concept, all of these things, which, you know,

spk_0 I kind of learned in the private sector when I was doing startup work there, it works.

spk_0 It really, really works. So, we're going to take a quick break. But when we come back,

spk_0 what I love about this book is, I think, to Darian's point, the practical nature of this, the

spk_0 actionable things that this book points you in the direction of doing. I love what you said

spk_0 Darian about how to use a chapter. I was immediately thinking about like development committees

spk_0 on boards that generally don't have a clear charge. And they ask all kinds of questions. What are we

spk_0 doing about this and what are we doing about that? And instead of being thought partners, they see

spk_0 themselves as overlords, right? But what if you sent them a chapter from this book and it became,

spk_0 what should we altogether be doing as it relates to fundraising so that there's buy-in, more than

spk_0 buy-in, but also a sense that you could get your board to become champions for this as well. So,

spk_0 when we come back, I really want you all to focus on these critical guidelines that you

spk_0 established for AI adoption. And I think it's an excellent place to sort of put a nice bow on our

spk_0 conversation for today. So stay with us and we'll be right back. You don't want to miss the end of

spk_0 this because you're going to want to take notes and you're totally going to want to buy this book.

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spk_0 Slash podcast. We are here talking about a new book called AI for non-profits. It is a

spk_0 compendium, a field guide, an edited big fat book of 57 remarkable people who have come together.

spk_0 There it is. Darian has his book and it is what the moment calls for. As Darian said earlier in

spk_0 the conversation, other books have been written and they were written before, chat GPT. So there was a

spk_0 gap and nothing is better than a book that fills a clear gap and this is what Darian and Cheryl have

spk_0 done here. So I loved your list of critical guidelines for AI adoption and I wonder Cheryl,

spk_0 if you wanted to share some of those. I think there's 10 like a David Letterman thing but

spk_0 not everybody who listens will even get that. I get that. But anyway, why don't you take us through

spk_0 some of these critical guidelines so that people are really understanding what they have to think

spk_0 about and do as they are really beginning to adopt this. Absolutely and yes, dating ourselves.

spk_0 Although Letterman had that Netflix show for those of younger people, you may have seen him on the

spk_0 Netflix. Thanks for saving my behind there. Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome, ma'am.

spk_0 So I've got top five, right? Just because we know you, nonprofit leader, are hella busy. So

spk_0 mission first, tech second, don't just adopt AI because it's the new shiny flashy thing.

spk_0 Adopt it because there are aspects of it that you can use that directly advance your mission.

spk_0 So asking yourself, how will this help us take things off our plate that we hate doing?

spk_0 That are not the fun part. And how can we use these tools to help us serve more people,

spk_0 help us raise more funds or help us deliver programs more effectively? Number two, start small

spk_0 and win big. Begin with just some quick, some low risk experiments. An example might be using AI

spk_0 to a draft emails that go out every day or every week. Use AI to help you with the first draft

spk_0 of your grant applications, et cetera. You know, in these early wins will help your team build

spk_0 confidence and create some momentum and it won't drain your budget. A lot of that kind of thing

spk_0 is actually you can use, you know, free or low cost tools. Number three, people over platforms.

spk_0 People are very freaked out about AI potentially losing your job, but we haven't necessarily seen

spk_0 a lot of people lose their jobs just yet for AI because really, AI is at its best when it

spk_0 augments your team and doesn't replace them. Your team's wisdom, values and lived experiences

spk_0 are irreplaceable. So starting to frame within, you know, yourself and with your team, you know,

spk_0 AI as an assistant, that frees up your team to focus on strategy and human connection. Number four,

spk_0 guard rails matter. You know, starting, you know, your team, they're already using AI. I can

spk_0 promise you that at least half your team is already quietly using AI to make their jobs easier

spk_0 and they're waiting for leadership from you. They're waiting for leadership from, you know,

spk_0 their senior team, they're waiting for leadership from their board to know what is and isn't okay.

spk_0 You want this out of the shadows. So being able to establish ethical guidelines early,

spk_0 you know, whether you're protecting data, reducing bias, you know, and being transparent,

spk_0 you know, and fair and ethical with your community, you know, whether it's internally or your

spk_0 external stakeholders. Non-profits must remain trusted institutions and you don't want to risk

spk_0 that trust by moving too fast and breaking things to quote someone that, you know, people,

spk_0 look it up. You can look it up. Number five, build for, yeah, you know what I'm going to build for

spk_0 the future, not just today. AI, of course, is evolving very quickly and will continue to do so.

spk_0 We'll probably going to see some spurts, as I mentioned right now. We're in a, just a little bit

spk_0 of a plateau moment that will change probably, you know, within the next year or two. So, you know,

spk_0 you want to choose tools that are flexible, you know, you want to invest in your, in training your

spk_0 staff and upskilling them continuously and cultivate a culture of innovation and curiosity.

spk_0 And that way your organization, you know, is poised to be ready for the opportunities of tomorrow,

spk_0 not just, you know, the annoying tasks of today. So, you know, I think there's a lot of

spk_0 opportunity out there and I hope that people will be, will be brave, but also responsible, right?

spk_0 You know, this right now is the time to take the bull by the horns. But Darian, what would you add?

spk_0 Yeah. I mean, I think just kind of connecting the dots on some of the things you said and you

spk_0 you touched on this at one point when you talked about bringing AI out of the shadows. And I think

spk_0 that's really at the core of what is so critical right now is for organizations to recognize that

spk_0 they have a role to play. This isn't just an individual pastime where people on your team

spk_0 are using the tool and figuring it out for themselves because they are. It is incumbent upon us as

spk_0 mission-led organizations where, you know, we are stewarding the public's trust that we need to

spk_0 take a responsible approach here and that means inviting intentionality. That means being strategic.

spk_0 And to Cheryl's point, that doesn't mean, you know, making a ginormous commitment and investing

spk_0 millions of dollars in our entire staff for years on end. That means just starting small. That

spk_0 back to the example that Joan had talked about previously with, you know, board members asking

spk_0 what this might look like, you can ask AI. You can say, you know, what should our committee be doing?

spk_0 Give me a possible draft charter for our development committee, for our technical, our new technical

spk_0 governance committee that we're starting. What should our mandate be? Give me one piece of paper

spk_0 with a mission statement and some bullet points and see what you get. And I think from my point of

spk_0 view, the two things that I've seen turn that light bulb on for the most people are number one,

spk_0 not being afraid to speak directly to the fears and the concerns because I think what I see all

spk_0 too often in the ad for good community is we only talk about the positive stuff. And there's a lot

spk_0 of it, but we leave people behind when we don't directly address their concerns around data security

spk_0 or the robots taking jobs or whatever it might be, the environmental impacts. And so we do need to

spk_0 hold space for those those concerns and address them effectively, which is actually not that hard.

spk_0 But at the same time, people need to see the tools, right? One of the authors took our 600 page book

spk_0 fed it to the robots and in five minutes created an NPR quality podcast of the of the entire book

spk_0 in a nutshell. And the quality of these AI driven outputs is getting so much higher that it is

spk_0 really eye opening when you can see some of these outputs, some of these images, some of these

spk_0 videos. And so, you know, and in the case of what I was just talking about with that board example,

spk_0 what does it look like to get a draft of a charter for a committee, which is a best practice I've

spk_0 been talking about for 20 years. And now we've got that, you know, high powered intern like Cheryl

spk_0 mentioned that we can say, you know, give me what I want. And within 10 seconds get a pretty good

spk_0 starting point. And that really seems to open people's eyes to the possibilities. And it directly

spk_0 supports this co intelligence idea of how do we work in partnership with this new tool and allow

spk_0 it to free up the people to do the things that only people can do. Right. And it's a it's really a

spk_0 both-and isn't it? I my wife has joined a fundraising committee for Lambda Legal, which is a LGBT

spk_0 legal advocacy organization. And she had was writing an email to secure a meeting with some people

spk_0 we felt she felt were as warm leads, right. And there's no question AI could have written that email.

spk_0 She didn't have to ask me, I just happened to be an expert in the house, right. But she could have,

spk_0 what she couldn't do, what AI couldn't do was read between the lines and interpret what the

spk_0 donors were saying when they responded, right. So that if that donor responded that perspective

spk_0 donor responded and said, we're going to make a gift we're about to open a donor advised fund,

spk_0 right. And I said to Eileen, if they're opening a donor advised fund, you're probably not thinking

spk_0 about asking them for a large enough gift, right. So there's a there's a nuance and a humanity

spk_0 that comes around interpreting that actually led Eileen to a very successful first time ask

spk_0 because of the combination of, you know, I could have spit out or my bot in the leadership lab could

spk_0 have spit out. Here's an example of an of an email to secure a meeting. But when you get the

spk_0 thing back, what do you do with it? And that's actually if I could spend more time thinking about the

spk_0 humanity of that response and then how to really think about what kind of conversation I want to

spk_0 have with that donor prospect, like that's game changing for me because I can spend my time doing

spk_0 the thing that is most important. And actually, I would take it to an even higher level because

spk_0 everything you just talked about is actually it's right about to be possible. Like we are, I would

spk_0 have sort of a concierge level service that says, hey, Joan or Eileen, here are the five donors

spk_0 you need to follow up with this week. Here's a prewritten email for each that has an ask amounted,

spk_0 it asks about their wife, you know, and their their kids, it ties in their personal connection and

spk_0 it focuses on the programs they want. All of the stuff that, you know, a junior to mid level,

spk_0 to even senior level fundraisers might put together, that's all going to be on a solar platter for

spk_0 you. And so the things that you're going to add that only people can do is number one to your point,

spk_0 sprinkling that voice and that nuance and connecting the dots on top. But number two is the

spk_0 FaceTime is, you know, taking this email, using it to secure a meeting and then sitting down with

spk_0 that donor, looking them in the eye, building that strong partnership and talking to them with a

spk_0 level of passion that no robot can about the work, about the need, about the impact that they

spk_0 can make possible. And using all of that intel, just like I can provide you with a dossier before

spk_0 a board meeting or before a donor pitch, the robots can do that, but only you can build those

spk_0 relationships. Yep. And boy, if we get to a point where I didn't hear from people I was coaching,

spk_0 I'm just not sure why my development director is always at their desk behind their computer.

spk_0 Right? Why is that true? And how can AI make something different possible? I think it's very clear.

spk_0 I want to just give you both sort of a final thoughts or pieces of advice. And if one of you could,

spk_0 you know, go back to what I said at the very beginning. So yes, we have staff that is using AI.

spk_0 What does it take to be a good champion at the leadership level for change in this regard?

spk_0 Because I think that's quite essential. So final thoughts. And if one of you wants to grab that

spk_0 question, I think it would be really useful for our listeners who largely are leading nonprofits to

spk_0 say, okay, how should I be leading this change? Sure. Look, you know, AI isn't here to run our

spk_0 nonprofits for us. It's here to free us up to do more of what your nonprofit does best, which is

spk_0 putting the human back in humanity, right? And leaving behind all the repetitive time-consuming,

spk_0 tedious, yucky work that you don't want to do so that you can connect more human to human. And,

spk_0 you know, we wrote AI for nonprofits because we want every leader to feel confident and future ready.

spk_0 And this is a moment in which nonprofit leaders, you know, board members, you know, philanthropists,

spk_0 this is a moment when you can help shape the very tools and techniques that become standard.

spk_0 This is all a very fluid and dynamic, you know, innovation cycle. So, you know, by getting involved now,

spk_0 you can actually help steer how this rolls out going forward and be a part of making this beneficial

spk_0 as beneficial as possible for human beings. Darian, you get the last word here. Yeah, I would say,

spk_0 you know, when you hear the term GPT, never mind what it actually stands for, think of a general

spk_0 purpose technology. This is something like fire or electricity or the internet can and should be

spk_0 deployed to help with almost anything. It not only unlocks efficiencies, it expands effectiveness

spk_0 and impact and we are by definition in the nonprofit sector mission led organizations. And so,

spk_0 I would argue you are being irresponsible if you're not looking at how to responsibly leverage this

spk_0 tool and that does not need to be daunting. It doesn't take a huge commitment. It just needs a

spk_0 little bit of strategy and intentionality and to bring it out of the shadows and have conversations

spk_0 and encourage people to play around with the tools and innovate and experiment and learn and share

spk_0 those lessons with one another so that as a community, as a team, we can come together and ask the

spk_0 most important question, which is how can this new tool better enable us to advance our mission?

spk_0 And that's why we're all here. You know, this is not the first time or the last time we have been on

spk_0 a new technology rodeo, right? Like, I used to type, now I'm really going to date myself. I used to

spk_0 make money in college by typing other people's papers on an IBM's Selectric. You know, actually,

spk_0 at that time it was very valuable to me. My first job out of college, I had a guy went on vacation

spk_0 and he seemed to have a very important job and he had this big spreadsheet and it was essentially

spk_0 what would become an Excel spreadsheet. And the boss would come in and say, could you change it

spk_0 to 25 cents, a cable subscriber, and this many subscribers, and that guy would take out as a racer,

spk_0 right? This is an MBA, right? And Mike went on to do great things when Excel hit the market. Mike

spk_0 Sullivan was so ready to do something really important. I got to raise because I knew how to use

spk_0 Excel. So it was like a win-win. But like, I think about all of these things that we now could never

spk_0 do without. And that's what's going to happen. But leadership in this space and reminding people

spk_0 that, right, that this is not, this is about people and not about technology. I think is going to

spk_0 make all the difference. So now that I've completely, completely dated myself, Cheryl wants the last word.

spk_0 Well, I've got two hot tips for folks, right? So one is, you know, look, chat bots respond well

spk_0 when you are nice to them. Treat your chat bot like it's another colleague. Talk to it that way

spk_0 because all of the studies and research show that you'll actually get better outputs, believe it

spk_0 or not. And you'll find that your chat bot starts to mirror the way that you think, the way that you

spk_0 talk because it's really trying to vibe with you. Again, this is science. And then finally,

spk_0 there is a great website that everyone should check out. If you want to get a sense of how fast

spk_0 this is moving, what is the breadth of this? It's literally the website is there is an AI for that.

spk_0 .com. It's such a fun website to just toodle around in and to see like all of the different ways,

spk_0 you know, that people are are building, you know, little AI tools to help their productivity

spk_0 or have a little fun. Fantastic. The book, it is called AI for nonprofits,

spk_0 putting artificial intelligence to work for your cause. There it is,

spk_0 dedicated by my guest today, Darian Rodriguez, Hey, Minister of Conti. Talk just for one quick

spk_0 second, Darian, I'll let you lead on this. You are working and being not just to sell this book,

spk_0 but there's a mission in this for you as well, is to make sure that people have the tools they need

spk_0 to use this tool to its greatest and best advantage. You're doing some really cool things to really

spk_0 try to get the word out. Tell me about that and also just where can we find you the book? And let's

spk_0 say the focus isn't even on trying to get the book out. The focus is really on trying to build

spk_0 nonprofit and foundation capacity in the social sector. And so what that looks like is sort of a

spk_0 three-pronged approach, maybe four-pronged. One is the book and you already mentioned that and folks

spk_0 can pick it up on Amazon and everywhere else. It's already been a great sell at bestseller and

spk_0 we're really excited for, you know, the impact that that's making in the marketplace. But then we're

spk_0 building off of that and under intense fiscal sponsorship, we've launched AI, the number four,

spk_0 np.org, just like AI for nonprofits. And what we're lifting up there is two things. One is we're

spk_0 building a comprehensive clearinghouse for all things AI for good. So all the books, the newsletters,

spk_0 the websites, the conferences, the, you know, all those different resources will be under one roof.

spk_0 We're also launching a national event series, a series of learning labs. It'll be one-day conferences

spk_0 in major cities all over the US, possibly even internationally, over the next year. And we're

spk_0 going to be bringing these conferences to cities all over the country. You can find out more

spk_0 on the website at AI for np. And we're also inviting people to get involved if they want to volunteer,

spk_0 if they want to help flesh out this resource directory or serve on the host committee or speak at

spk_0 one of these events or join us as an attendee. All that can be found at the website. And you could

spk_0 also contact us directly. That would be the fourth leg of the stool is we're doing a lot of

spk_0 coaching and consulting in the Serena. So I'm pulling together teams all the time to work with

spk_0 foundations with nonprofits, with cohorts to provide special, you know, unique trainings and all kinds

spk_0 of bespoke support. And all of that happens under my consultancy at helpingpeoplehelp.com where

spk_0 folks can reach out. They can request a free coaching session. And I'm just happy to speak to people

spk_0 find out what their struggles and what their needs are and see how I can fulfill those,

spk_0 working with Cheryl, working with other folks and really just doing what we can to help nonprofits

spk_0 meet this moment. I think, you know, back to your earlier comment, you talked about how COVID really

spk_0 unleashed this huge burst and culture of innovation. And I think right now is difficult as times

spk_0 may be. And as, you know, unstable as things are with government funding and different things that

spk_0 directly affect a lot of nonprofits, we're also seeing a huge surge in innovation in flexibility

spk_0 and in resilience because that is what nonprofits do when the going gets tough is we find new ways

spk_0 to serve our community. And that's what AI represents. I am delighted to have had this conversation with you.

spk_0 Every time I have a guest on my podcast, I am reminded of what an incredible cohort of people

spk_0 are out there. Let me be the first to tell you, writing a book, you know, unless you're a gon girl

spk_0 or, you know, something like that, you know, that's, it's not a money-making adventure.

spk_0 It's a passion project. That's what my book was for me. It's what this book is for them.

spk_0 Have a look, find it, grab a chapter or two and start to think about what's that small thing I could do

spk_0 to test the waters, illustrate proof of concept, to stave off some objections and show myself to

spk_0 be a champion and evangelist for the future through AI. So, Darian and Cheryl, thank you so,

spk_0 so much for being here. Thanks for having us. And best of luck with all of your stuff. And remember,

spk_0 it's AI, the number four, np.org is where you're going to find so much. And I really loved

spk_0 Cheryl. What was the web, the fun website? I like fun. Yeah, there is an AI for that. Yeah,

spk_0 I'm gonna turn this recording off. I'm going there right now. Thank you both for all of you

spk_0 who are listening. Thank you for the intentionality it took to make time to listen. And now let's give

spk_0 it a go. Shall we? See you next time. Thank you for spending time with us today. We hope this

spk_0 conversation provides valuable insights as you navigate the messy but meaningful world of nonprofits.

spk_0 A special thanks to donor perfect, sponsoring this episode and for their dedication to empowering

spk_0 nonprofits like yours to do more good. For more resources to support your work, visit jonggary.com

spk_0 slash podcast. We think you'll find a lot of helpful things there. Most importantly,

spk_0 thank you for all you do to make the world a better place. One small or large step at a time.

spk_0 Talk to you all next time.

Ep 237: The AI Field Guide: A Playbook for Nonprofit Success with Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Contee

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