Ep 1250 | Did Israel Kill Charlie Kirk? Investigation vs. Innuendo

Interactive Transcript

spk_0 Lots of claims are being made about Charlie Kirk's murder, including that Israel was somehow

spk_0 involved and that the government has the wrong guy.

spk_0 We are going to explore those claims today as well as discuss how Christians should discern

spk_0 what is true and what is not.

spk_0 And surprise, surprise.

spk_0 I've got a hot take about Taylor Swift at the end of this episode.

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spk_0 Hey guys, welcome to relatable.

spk_0 Happy Monday.

spk_0 Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far that you had a wonderful weekend.

spk_0 Guess what week it is?

spk_0 It is a very special week in relatable world.

spk_0 It is the week of share the arrows.

spk_0 Share the arrows is this Saturday, October 11th.

spk_0 Y'all, I am so excited.

spk_0 I know I've been talking about it for a long time, but we've been planning on it longer

spk_0 than we've been talking about it.

spk_0 And I am just so prayerful, so expectant, so humbled and grateful going into this week

spk_0 right now.

spk_0 We have about 6,500 women from six different countries and 48 states all arriving in

spk_0 Dallas, Texas to hear biblical teaching, to worship together, to be challenged, to be

spk_0 encouraged.

spk_0 I sent a text out to all of the speakers this week and I said, look, we want every woman

spk_0 to walk out of there with zero fear of man with a clear understanding of how to apply

spk_0 the word of God into the sphere of life that they occupy right now in this moment.

spk_0 How to take risks for the gospel that will look different than the risks I take, different

spk_0 than the risks that Charlie Kirk took.

spk_0 And yet we are all called to be bold for the truth and I want you to feel just completely

spk_0 strengthened and equipped in a golden after you leave share the arrows.

spk_0 We still do have tickets left.

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spk_0 have to worry about burdening you or the grandparents or anyone else that it's totally fine, that

spk_0 this is a day for her to go and to be taught and to be refreshed and rejuvenated biblically.

spk_0 It's really important for her to be able to do that.

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spk_0 So whatever you can do to make sure that she knows that everything is taken care of financially

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spk_0 I really think if she wants to go, she will appreciate that so much.

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spk_0 Use that code Ali 20.

spk_0 And those of you who are already signed up, I cannot wait to see you on Saturday.

spk_0 And those of you who can't make it this year, please make sure to just pray for it.

spk_0 Pray against the schemes of Satan.

spk_0 Pray for safety, of course.

spk_0 Pray that God would be glorified most of all.

spk_0 Pray for each of our speakers.

spk_0 Pray for everyone traveling in.

spk_0 Just pray for us.

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spk_0 And again, that he would just be honored and glorified.

spk_0 We've got our share of the arrows awarded the end of it that I'm so excited about.

spk_0 There's just so much I could go on and on.

spk_0 We'll talk more about it next week after it actually happens.

spk_0 All right, let's get into this much awaited topic.

spk_0 And it's tough.

spk_0 It's tough to talk about all of this for so many different reasons.

spk_0 When it comes to Charlie Kirk's assassination, this just happened.

spk_0 It's very fresh.

spk_0 And it's a human tragedy.

spk_0 It's a personal tragedy to many of us.

spk_0 And as much as we feel it's a personal tragedy, it is a thousand times infinitely

spk_0 deeper ever wound for Erica, for their kids, for the many people who worked with Charlie on a daily

spk_0 basis, just the void that has been left in their lives is huge.

spk_0 But in a way, it is affected so many people that never even met him.

spk_0 I talk to people every day, every week that still haven't been able to process Charlie's

spk_0 death with someone that they know.

spk_0 And I realize sometimes I'm the first person that they meet that actually knew Charlie.

spk_0 And so the emotions are just still so high.

spk_0 So in the midst of that, we are also talking about what actually happened to Charlie Kirk.

spk_0 And there are many theories surrounding it.

spk_0 And some of them I would call conspiracy theories.

spk_0 Some of it is legitimate investigation.

spk_0 Some of it is healthy question asking.

spk_0 And I will talk about how I think as Christians we distinguish between all of those things.

spk_0 And I do think it's okay to seek the truth about an investigation, about a crime like this,

spk_0 a tragedy like this at the same time that you're mourning a person.

spk_0 But I do think we have to be careful how we do it.

spk_0 And so we've spent so much time doing everything we can to honor Charlie

spk_0 and to in our very small way compared to him carry that torch.

spk_0 But I do want to get into some fact versus fiction and just some questions I have about the theory

spk_0 circulating about who was actually involved in Charlie's murder.

spk_0 There are so many claims being made.

spk_0 I do not have time to go through all of the claims today.

spk_0 I don't even have time to go through the claims that we are going through.

spk_0 Like I don't have time to hit every single point on those and debunk every point.

spk_0 So I'm going to do the best that I possibly can to go through two claims.

spk_0 And claim one is that Israel was somehow involved in Charlie's death.

spk_0 And claim two is that the Tyler Robinson evidence has been manufactured.

spk_0 And I don't have all the answers.

spk_0 You don't have all of the answers on all of it.

spk_0 But I think there are some really important questions that we need to ask that actually get

spk_0 us closer to the truth.

spk_0 Okay, let's start with claim one that Israel is involved.

spk_0 And then I'm going to go through the sub claims that I've seen.

spk_0 So under this category.

spk_0 So sub claim one is that Charlie was frustrated about Israel's

spk_0 handling of the Palestinian conflict.

spk_0 I rate this seems to be true.

spk_0 I do think that this sub claim one under the claim that Israel is involved in this murder.

spk_0 I do think this sub claim seems to be true.

spk_0 Charlie went on Patrick David's podcast shortly after October 7th, 2023.

spk_0 And Charlie asked some questions about how this attack could have happened.

spk_0 If Israel is really as secure and intelligent as we know they are.

spk_0 And then he also made a comment about Israel potentially committing an ethnic cleansing in Gaza.

spk_0 Here's someone.

spk_0 Bebe and the Israeli hard right government has a mandate.

spk_0 I gotta be careful the way I say this to they're going to try to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

spk_0 I mean that's and I don't use that term lightly.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 They're talking about basically removing 2.5 million people from there.

spk_0 Okay.

spk_0 Okay, so this is not exactly the unconditionally positive portrayal of Israel that you see

spk_0 from some conservatives.

spk_0 Like he had some what people would perceive as harsh words for the Israeli government at the time.

spk_0 Even though Charlie has a history of being extremely pro-Israel, a visiting Israel,

spk_0 he has partnered with Prager University for a long time and really no one ever questioned

spk_0 which side Charlie Kirk was on when it came to the Israel Palestinian conflict or even the

spk_0 Judaism Islam conflict.

spk_0 He has been a very outspoken critic of Islamic extremism for a very long time and yet he had

spk_0 some critical words.

spk_0 Then there's subclaim too.

spk_0 Under this category, Charlie was feeling pressure from pro-Israel activists and potentially pro-Israel

spk_0 donors.

spk_0 He made some comments that made people believe this on August 6, 2025 on Megan Kelly's show.

spk_0 Here's not too.

spk_0 The behavior by a lot, both privately and publicly, are pushing people like you and me away.

spk_0 Not like we're going to be pro-Hamas.

spk_0 Yeah.

spk_0 Treating me is so repulsive.

spk_0 I have text messages, Megan calling me an anti-Semite.

spk_0 I am learning Diplocular Hebrew and writing a book on the Shabbat.

spk_0 I honor the Shabbat, literally the Jewish Sabbath.

spk_0 I visit Israel and fight for it.

spk_0 There's another article out in the Times of Israel today.

spk_0 I could read it on air.

spk_0 I was just reading before I got on.

spk_0 Charlie, what are you doing?

spk_0 Like, why are you?

spk_0 What am I doing?

spk_0 I'm sorry.

spk_0 Like let's just take a step back here.

spk_0 Like I'm an American citizen.

spk_0 So he goes on to say he's an American citizen.

spk_0 He's going to put the priorities of America first

spk_0 in where he sees Israel's interest and America's interest

spk_0 contradicting like he is going to be on the side of America.

spk_0 And he was, I believe, getting more and more vocal about that over time.

spk_0 We've got subclaim three.

spk_0 One of the donors, some people are claiming, was Bill Ackman,

spk_0 who was allegedly very angry at Charlie Soffanine's support of Israel.

spk_0 And the accusation goes, he basically blackmailed him

spk_0 or threatened him to change his position.

spk_0 Ackman made an ex post on September 15th responding to these accusations.

spk_0 It was a very long response.

spk_0 But he said, for the record, at no time have I ever threatened Charlie Kirk,

spk_0 turning point or anyone associated with him,

spk_0 I've never blackmailed anyone let alone Charlie.

spk_0 I've never offered Charlie a turning point,

spk_0 any money and an attempt to influence Charlie's opinion on anything.

spk_0 In fact, my interactions with Charlie Kirk

spk_0 have been extremely cordial, albeit limited.

spk_0 Regretfully so as I was very impressed by him and his work.

spk_0 And I will sadly never see him again.

spk_0 So this accusation is referencing a summit or a meeting that actually did occur.

spk_0 I know that it occurred.

spk_0 A lot of people have said that it occurred

spk_0 on at the Hamptons with some conservative influencers.

spk_0 I was not there.

spk_0 I was not invited to a part of that at all.

spk_0 But I know people who were there.

spk_0 And Bill Ackman really was there.

spk_0 Charlie Kirk really was there.

spk_0 And I'm sure there were maybe conversations about Israel

spk_0 because I know Charlie was interested in hosting debates

spk_0 among these conservative commentators on Israel

spk_0 and the Palestinian conflict and how that is being handled.

spk_0 Ackman connected with Charlie via DM back in May,

spk_0 leading to a Zoom call on June 11th,

spk_0 where Kirk expressed concerns about young conservatives,

spk_0 whining support for Israel.

spk_0 Then Ackman posted his private WhatsApp text

spk_0 between him and Kirk to demonstrate their friendly interaction.

spk_0 It looks like Bill Ackman said, how are you?

spk_0 Charlie said I'm doing great.

spk_0 Really enjoyed our time together last week.

spk_0 So this is later.

spk_0 This is actually referencing the Hamptons summit

spk_0 that happened in August.

spk_0 And then Charlie said, thank you again for doing that,

spk_0 speaking about hosting that summit.

spk_0 And then Bill Ackman said, it was great, great to get to know you better.

spk_0 We should do dinner sometime with the ladies.

spk_0 Charlie said that would be awesome.

spk_0 Thank you.

spk_0 I will, etc.

spk_0 Okay, so they're talking about getting together

spk_0 at a certain point.

spk_0 And then Seth Dylan, CEO of the Babylon B,

spk_0 who was there in the Hamptons.

spk_0 He was also accused alongside of Ackman of pressuring Charlie

spk_0 in an intervention to get him to change his stance on Israel.

spk_0 And then Seth Dylan on X in a statement said,

spk_0 I did not organize or participate in any intervention with Charlie.

spk_0 He said that there he had no coercion, no threats

spk_0 that he didn't pressure him in any way

spk_0 and that he didn't notice any kind of anger going on here.

spk_0 Charlie's producer, Andrew Colvette,

spk_0 you were probably already familiar with Andrew,

spk_0 but if you watched my co-hosting of Charlie's show,

spk_0 then you saw him there who is kind of taking the lead right now

spk_0 on Charlie's podcast.

spk_0 He issued a response after consulting turning point staff

spk_0 who attended this August 4th through 5th retreat in the Hamptons.

spk_0 Andrew said, I have been asked about the Bill Ackman event more than a few times now.

spk_0 So I asked our staff who were traveling with Charlie at that time

spk_0 to find out what's true.

spk_0 His team was with him 100% of the time when he wasn't in his hotel room.

spk_0 Here's what they told me, quote,

spk_0 Bill never yelled at Charlie, never pressed him on BB,

spk_0 never gave him a list of Charlie's offenses against Israel.

spk_0 There was concern raised about having Tucker

spk_0 at student action summit and Charlie's reply was, honestly, people

spk_0 telling me not to have Tucker, makes me want to have Tucker,

spk_0 and I'm going to lock him in for Amfest 2.

spk_0 All right, so those are the claims that are being made.

spk_0 Now whether or not you want to believe those claims,

spk_0 maybe you don't believe Bill Ackman, maybe you don't believe Andrew Colvette,

spk_0 maybe you don't believe Seth Dylan,

spk_0 and that is your prerogative to decide who you want to believe.

spk_0 But I am telling you the response to the accusation

spk_0 that the pressure on Charlie reached some kind of fever pitch in the Hamptons

spk_0 and that somehow this point to Israel being a part of Charlie's assassination.

spk_0 All right, we've got another sub claim on this category.

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spk_0 Subclaim for Benjamin Netanyahu,

spk_0 lied about Charlie's letter.

spk_0 On September 11th, Benjamin Netanyahu read excerpts of a letter he had received from Charlie

spk_0 Kirkland's Report of Israel and an appearance on Fox News's Faulkner Focus.

spk_0 So here's BB Netanyahu, Sub 3.

spk_0 One of my greatest joys as a Christian is advocating for Israel

spk_0 informing alliances to defend Judeo-Christian civilization.

spk_0 A few weeks before the tragedy yesterday, I called him and I spoke to him and I said,

spk_0 please come to Israel, I invited him to Israel.

spk_0 And sadly, that visit will not take place.

spk_0 But he was a defender of our common Judeo-Christian civilization.

spk_0 He was unbelievably excited to walk at the footsteps of Jesus here.

spk_0 Okay, so after he said that, Candace Owens said that BB Netanyahu is lying about that letter.

spk_0 And since the letter has come out, which we're going to read a little bit,

spk_0 a lot of people have said that Candace was lying saying that BB Netanyahu was lying.

spk_0 And I'm not sure, I don't think that's totally true that she was lying about that.

spk_0 I think that it is true that there were parts of that letter that BB Netanyahu didn't read.

spk_0 But at the same time, I don't know that him not reading the critical parts of Charlie's

spk_0 letter was a malicious omission. It probably just wasn't appropriate on Fox News right after Charlie

spk_0 had died to read all of Charlie's criticism of Israel's messaging. So yes, it is true.

spk_0 What Candace said that the entirety of the letter was not just praising Israel unconditionally.

spk_0 But BB Netanyahu is also right that Charlie wrote that and that Charlie was a supporter of Israel

spk_0 in general and the Judeo-Christian alliance in general. So both are telling the truth there.

spk_0 There is more to this letter though that I do think is important to know.

spk_0 And we can't go through the whole thing because it was a very long letter. It was originally

spk_0 released in its fullness by the New York Post. And Charlie is basically expressing deep affection

spk_0 for Israel in the beginning as a Christian advocate. He says it's been one of his greatest joys.

spk_0 Exactly what we heard BB Netanyahu say here. And then he goes on to say as Muhammadism spreads

spk_0 into Western societies, it's critical that Jews and Christians stay united in the effort to

spk_0 contain a rollback radical islamin-churia law. I regret to report that anti-Israel and

spk_0 anti-Semitic trends are at record levels on social media. These negative sentiments then flow

spk_0 downstream into college campuses and even seep into the conservative Naga community. But then he

spk_0 goes on to tell BB Netanyahu this is mostly Y'all's fault. He's like Y'all's messaging efforts

spk_0 aren't good. Y'all need a new PR strategy and what you are doing to communicate the virtue of

spk_0 Y'all's fight against Hamas. It shouldn't rely on American influencers. And it seemed to me that

spk_0 Charlie was frustrated that he was always having to try to figure out a way to defend everything

spk_0 Israel was doing and that Israel wasn't doing their part in helping American media and American

spk_0 conservatives like get the truth out there. And so this was a very nuanced, a very layered

spk_0 letter to BB Netanyahu that I think showed genuinely who Charlie was and how he really felt.

spk_0 I don't think there's any question that he was very pro-Israel that he really believed in

spk_0 a Judeo-Christian alliance and that he cared about the Holy Land and that he wanted Israel to

spk_0 succeed against Hamas and that he saw Islamism as a huge threat to Western civilization and that

spk_0 he didn't buy into conspiracy theories about Judaism taking over different parts of power in the

spk_0 United States and undermining America. He didn't believe in that from what I can see. I don't

spk_0 have any secret conversations or secret information about Charlie to tell you one way or the other.

spk_0 But it seems obvious to me from what he said publicly and what he said here to Benjamin.

spk_0 To BB Netanyahu. So a lot of people are also saying I've seen out there that oh this was it,

spk_0 this letter wasn't really from Charlie which I don't really understand. I see that from the right

spk_0 it seems. Some people saying this was written by AI. This is chat GPT. This is not Charlie. This is

spk_0 not how Charlie sounds. Why would Charlie send this letter and then I see people on the left saying

spk_0 oh he was so arrogant. Why would he send a letter like that? Well you both are wrong. Number one

spk_0 this sounds exactly like Charlie. This sounds like Charlie. This sounds like how he writes. This

spk_0 sound or how he wrote. This sounds like how he talked. This seems true to the things that he was

spk_0 saying publicly at the time. And so okay. Number two, I saw some people say this is chat GPT and

spk_0 Israel put it out there. Why would Israel put out a letter like this? This makes them look horrible.

spk_0 Why would Israel want to publish a letter that makes them look so bad because he had so much

spk_0 criticism for Israel. So that doesn't make any sense. And then on the other side people saying

spk_0 well this was so arrogant. It must not be real because Charlie would never think he had this much

spk_0 influence. He had this much influence. He had this much influence. Like Israel relies on American

spk_0 conservatives to be their publicist basically in a lot of ways in the West. And Charlie was one of the

spk_0 leading pro-Israel voices and very influential in the Trump administration. So yes he had that much

spk_0 influence on BB Natanyahu. And so I think that the letter is completely real. I don't think that we

spk_0 have any reason to doubt its validity. And then we also have sub claim five which honestly we're

spk_0 not even going to get totally in two because I'm still trying to figure out like what is the claim

spk_0 here? The claim is that turning point is losing money. And I think that the assumption is that it

spk_0 had something to do with Israel. And maybe we'll have to come back and we'll have to really like

spk_0 get into what the truth is about this and the allegation that they were losing money mysteriously

spk_0 and that Charlie wanted to lead some kind of like doge effort to make sure that they weren't losing

spk_0 money in some kind of you know nefarious way in the Tyler Boyer who is the COO of turning point

spk_0 action. He said that they're not losing money that it's not true. This is a standard audit.

spk_0 And so yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of back and forth there and I don't have any insider

spk_0 information to offer you on that one. But all of these points are supposed to come together and

spk_0 we're supposed to at least be squinting our eyes at Israel and saying okay if all of these things

spk_0 are true or at least partially true somewhat true then maybe Israel is involved. And here are some

spk_0 things that I think we need to think about before taking this leap and some questions that I

spk_0 think we need to ask not only when it comes to this claim but really when it comes to any claim.

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spk_0 okay here's how conspiracy theories work okay because conspiracy theories are different than

spk_0 critical thinking and question asking and the innuendo is different than investigation and

spk_0 implication is different than investigation and I'm not even pointing fingers right now. I've

spk_0 seen a lot of different Instagram posts a lot of different X-Posts from a lot of different people

spk_0 some that are asking good questions and some that are just spinning up suspicion.

spk_0 And again those two things aren't the same so this is what you need to look for when it comes to

spk_0 any claim. If it's a claim that I make, if it's a claim that someone else makes especially when

spk_0 someone is creating a series out of multiple claims okay. So this is how conspiracy theories work.

spk_0 One you exploit distrust or gaps of information. So in this case we don't trust the government.

spk_0 That's true. We have good reason not to trust the government. There have been things that the

spk_0 government has said that are kind of sketchy like text exchange that the government claimed was

spk_0 between the shooter and the partner. A lot of people said that it seemed fake although I think that

spk_0 there are some questions about that to exploit pre-existing suspicions or resentment. So in this

spk_0 case the people claiming that Israel was involved in this already didn't like Israel. So that to

spk_0 me is a little suspicious. It would be a lot more credible to me if the people pursuing this theory

spk_0 didn't already blame Israel for other things. If they were blaming Germany for this I'd be like,

spk_0 oh that's interesting because I don't see any vested interests in accusing this particular

spk_0 country or if people who like never criticized Israel in the past were like, yeah I really think

spk_0 Israel is a part of this and that might be a little bit more intriguing but it just seems a little

spk_0 bit too on the nose and coincidental that Israel would be involved in a crime and it's being found

spk_0 out by people who are already super critical of Israel. Another characteristic is giving partial

spk_0 truths. So like there are some truths that are in this claim as we already validated. Netanyahu

spk_0 didn't say everything was in that letter. Charlie did exchange words with Bill Ackman. Charlie

spk_0 was concerned with Israel's direction so all of these things are true. But then there's also this

spk_0 aspect giving full truths but making it seem like they're tied together with a secret sauce of

spk_0 special knowledge without ever actually providing the receipts and the evidence to prove those

spk_0 connections. So this happened, this exists and these two things are connected because we should be

spk_0 asking how? Why? So we should be asking what do those two things have in common? How are those two

spk_0 things connected? What do those two things have to do with each other and what do they have to do with

spk_0 Charlie's murder? I need to be told specifically. I need to be told directly. I need to be told

spk_0 explicitly because if we're making claims about who is involved in Charlie's murder like I need

spk_0 the tangible evidence of those connections. It's not enough to just tell me that some things happened

spk_0 and some things exist. Also, as I said, Inuendo is not investigation so if someone knows something,

spk_0 if they have insider information, then they need to release it to the public. I don't want to drip

spk_0 campaign. I don't want multiple, you know, like a thread on this. I just, I want to know if we all

spk_0 are seeking the truth and I want to know the truth too, then I want to know upfront. I don't want

spk_0 like these. Oh, well, you know, this person said this but I know for a fact that that's not true.

spk_0 Tell me how you know for a fact. I want to know how do you know for a fact and like what is the

spk_0 truth? Gosh, I really want to know what is the truth. So here are my specific questions when it

spk_0 comes to this Israel claim. Why would Israel, whose existence is largely dependent upon the support

spk_0 of the US, take out one of the most vocal supporters of Israel and Judaism? Why would they target

spk_0 a confidant of one of the most pro-Israel presidents of all time? Would Israel really risk the further

spk_0 alienation of the American right? Literally some of its only lasting supporters in the world

spk_0 by taking out one of our biggest heroes. And would they do it in a way that internet

spk_0 sleuths can figure out? Because it's either Israel is very stupid or they're extremely cunning

spk_0 and conniving, but I don't understand how they can be both. And I've gone back and forth with some

spk_0 people in my DMs about this one person said, oh, well, look at this, look at how much Israel lobbies

spk_0 in our government. Like look at how much they're trying to influence the media. Look at how many times

spk_0 they're, you know, meeting with commentators, how they were talking to Charlie Kirk and trying to

spk_0 influence what he thinks. Okay, but even if that's true and even if you have a problem with that,

spk_0 what does that have to do with this? Because do you know how many countries and how many

spk_0 corporations do that? Like do you know how many of these entities are trying to influence

spk_0 American media? China, Russia are two of the main ones, Iran, another one? And you know, Charlie

spk_0 was a big critic of Islam, much bigger critic of Islam than he was of Israel. Charlie was a big

spk_0 critic of China. Charlie was a confidant of the president who has been very harsh on Russia.

spk_0 Tell me why there aren't a bunch of theories about those countries involvement in Charlie's murder.

spk_0 Like again, ask why it goes back to Israel. Charlie was critical of a lot of things and a lot of

spk_0 people and a lot of countries and a lot of different ideologies. Like why is it his criticism of one

spk_0 part of what a particular government is doing in the Middle East? Why does that have to be the thing

spk_0 that probably led to his murder? It just doesn't make sense to me. It's not adding up to me.

spk_0 Claim to the government is manufacturing the evidence against the current suspect. There's

spk_0 someone named Rob O'Neal. He's a man who killed Osama bin Laden. Thank you, Lord, for that. But he

spk_0 believes that the lone gunman theory is inaccurate. He believes that there was that this guy had help.

spk_0 Subclaim one. So O'Neal initially calls 170 yard shot with a 30 odd six rifle easy for a sniper

spk_0 or hunter. But later questions why an untrained 22 year old would take a neck shot. Same. You don't

spk_0 take a neck shot because you missed. He implies the precision hitting Kirk's neck is suspicious for

spk_0 an amateur suggesting possible training or an alternative explanation. He says that the shot

spk_0 distance is within range for a hunting rifle with a scope, his sniper experience where O'Neal

spk_0 suggests a neck shot are accidental, not intentional for non professionals. Okay, so he just

spk_0 doesn't think it adds up there. But here's our fact check. It is possible. I wouldn't even I wouldn't

spk_0 even go so far as to say plausible. I think that's even like a little bit too much. It's possible,

spk_0 but not conclusive. A 30 odd six rifle with a modern scope as the one that was recovered can

spk_0 accurately hit a target at about 142 yards. While challenging for an untrained shooter, the suspect

spk_0 did have experience. We know that he trained with his father growing up. There are a lot of pictures

spk_0 with guns. In fact, Wall Street Journal has this picture of the suspect with a very large gun.

spk_0 And so it is totally possible. It's also possible that he was aiming for the head and that he

spk_0 jerked the gun and that he actually missed that he didn't actually mean to hit him and the neck.

spk_0 And if he had practiced this, if he had done a lot of target practicing, which it does seem like

spk_0 that was something that was very much a part of his upbringing, it seems that it's totally possible.

spk_0 And so he just doesn't think it seems like Robynale just doesn't think that this guy could have

spk_0 done it on his own and that this was something that was maybe a little bit more professional.

spk_0 Subclaimed two people are saying that the wound appearance of Charlie and the shirt movement just

spk_0 doesn't fit with this guy being on a roof 175 yards away. So O'Neill disputes that the official

spk_0 narrative that the visible wound was an entry wound. He disputes that claiming it looks like an

spk_0 exit wound based on his own combat experience. He said an entry wound doesn't look like that.

spk_0 He says video footage showing the neck wound and shirt movement just don't line up.

spk_0 He disputes the assertion that Kirk wasn't wearing body armor. He said bullets don't deflect that way.

spk_0 But we do know from Andrew Colvin that he was not wearing body armor that day.

spk_0 And Andrew Colvin said on September 20th in an ex post he said that he wanted to

spk_0 address some of the discussion about the lack of an exit wound. He said I just spoke with

spk_0 the surgeon who worked on Charlie in the hospital. He said the bullet absolutely should have gone

spk_0 through which is very normal for a high powered high velocity round. I've seen wounds from

spk_0 this caliber many times and they always just go through everything. This would have taken a

spk_0 moose or two down in elk, etc. But it didn't go through Charlie's body. Stop it. It was an absolute

spk_0 miracle that someone else didn't get killed. His bone was so healthy and the density was so

spk_0 impressive that he's like the man of steel. I should it should have gone through and through. It

spk_0 likely would have killed those standing behind him too. In the end the corner did find the bullet

spk_0 just beneath the skin. So even in death Charlie managed to save the lives of those around him.

spk_0 Remarkable miraculous. Now some people just aren't buying that but I don't have a reason not to buy

spk_0 that. I don't have I don't have any reason to doubt. Of course Andrew Colvin. I totally believe him

spk_0 but then also what he's saying that the corner said and that the surgeon said. And of course I

spk_0 believe it's possible for God to do anything. And he's saying it's miraculous and miraculous means

spk_0 that it goes beyond reason or even like the laws of physics. And so I have no reason to believe

spk_0 that this is untrue and that there was some other kind of wound there. And also like we've talked

spk_0 to people who are actually there like Frank Turek. He saw the wound. He saw what happened. He was there.

spk_0 And I've talked to him and many of you have seen what he has said publicly and describing exactly

spk_0 what happened. And I trust him. I trust Frank Frank Turek who has described the wound and what was

spk_0 going on in the car and how they were trying to stop the bleeding and all of that. And there's a

spk_0 reason why Charlie died so immediately. There's another claim here about the security failures that

spk_0 people just aren't buying. And we'll get into that in a second. Let me go ahead and tell you about

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spk_0 Okay, so this is sub claim three security failures rooftop oversight. O'Neill questioned why

spk_0 the rooftops weren't secured, especially after what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania with Trump.

spk_0 So here is our fact check on that. So Charlie security team as turning point has said over and

spk_0 over again, as I have experienced because I've spoken at so many turning point events over the years,

spk_0 they are top notch. I've been to a lot of events with different levels of security. And I could tell

spk_0 you not every organization and not every event has the kind of security that the turning point does.

spk_0 Every time I was at a turning point event, I would have one or two security guards with me at all

spk_0 times from the moment I left my hotel room to on stage to walking around no matter what until I got

spk_0 into my car and I got on my way to the airport. I was covered by security guard, not every organization does

spk_0 that. They are like no nonsense guys. And again, I've seen all different levels and they were always

spk_0 my favorite because I just knew that I was cared for. They weren't going to mess around and you could

spk_0 tell that they were always assessing every threat. And man, that was times a hundred for Charlie,

spk_0 which was their principal, the guy that they loved, the guy that they knew if they were doing that for

spk_0 me a random person. I'm telling you, they were on top of security for Charlie. Now what happened in

spk_0 this case according to Tyler Boyer, who again is the head of turning point action has been with

spk_0 turning point from the beginning is that it was not a failure of turning point security who did

spk_0 everything that they possibly could to secure it. They had their own drone program. And actually

spk_0 the city where this happened had their own drone program. But unfortunately, the drone was the drone

spk_0 idea, I should say the drone proposal was shot down by the campus, not literally shot down, but they

spk_0 said no, you can't use drones. Tyler Boyer said on X, we have our own drone program shot down

spk_0 by campus police or in police has a state of the art program. The question I have is why the campus

spk_0 police didn't use it. According to ABC News, Utah Valley University's outdoor courtyard where

spk_0 Kirk showed up on September 10th to debate students was surrounded by several tall buildings leaving

spk_0 Kirk vulnerable. That was made all the more potent because campus police didn't fly a drone to

spk_0 monitor rooftops or coordinate with local law enforcement to secure the event. It deployed only

spk_0 six officers from a force that was already small for a campus size. There were no bag checks or

spk_0 nettles detectors. So obviously like there are a lot of things. A lot of steps that could have been

spk_0 taken. They could have said no, no outside events after Butler, Pennsylvania. They could have said no,

spk_0 you're not allowing anyone into this area until they go through now the detector. The drone probably

spk_0 could have saved Charlie Kirk's life. There was a lot going on here, but Charlie had been in the

spk_0 lion's den in a lot of different places. He had been in much more progressive and dangerous places

spk_0 than this. So I don't know, maybe some security, the local police, campus police, whatever, maybe they

spk_0 just didn't think that it was that it was that big of a threat. They said that they didn't see

spk_0 any credible threats. Obviously they were wrong about that. And that is part of why we are where we are

spk_0 today. I don't find this to be suspicious. Human beings are fallible. They make mistakes. They do

spk_0 wrong things. Maybe there were nefarious motives. I don't know. Behind the police forces there

spk_0 who didn't allow or the campus police that didn't allow them to have the drone program. I don't

spk_0 know, but I don't think this is all part of some secret grand scheme. That means that the suspect

spk_0 isn't really the suspect again. I'm just not seeing the connection there. And then we also have

spk_0 this claim that there's been a sketchy handling of the crime scene. There's this video going around

spk_0 where it looks like the college UVU is tearing up the crime scene. So it's six.

spk_0 Okay, so you can see that they're kind of like painting it. They look like they're maybe laying

spk_0 Kant. Now it looks like they're just painting it. And so some people are saying, oh my goodness,

spk_0 they're messing up this crime scene. They're trying to cover something up. But the truth is,

spk_0 you can see in this picture right here, we've got this full screen. The scene of the crime was

spk_0 roped off while the authorities were investigating it. This picture is from September 11th that you're

spk_0 seeing the day after the murder. And so they probably got everything that they needed. And they

spk_0 probably told the campus, hey, you can't do anything. You can't reconstruct anything here until we

spk_0 do what we need to do. And so I have no reason to believe that they were covering up any evidence

spk_0 or that there was anything nefarious going on there. I mean, at this point, it's been a while

spk_0 since Charlie was murdered. And I assume that federal authorities have gotten everything that

spk_0 they needed because remember the gun and where the guy was actually on the roof. That was not where

spk_0 they are reconstructing. I'm sure already got everything they needed from where Charlie was actually

spk_0 shot. And then there's another claim here. And this is our last claim for this segment that

spk_0 there was overly convenient evidence left by the suspect. There was a note left under the

spk_0 suspect's keyboard photographed by his romantic partners. And I had the opportunity to take out

spk_0 Charlie Kirk. And I'm going to take it. The text exchanged with his partner post shooting where

spk_0 Robinson allegedly confessed that he had enough of Kirk's hatred. And that he had been playing

spk_0 the attack over over a week. He also used some words like vehicle, which people claimed, okay,

spk_0 no, no, you know, 20-year-old talks like this. This is just too weird. This is clearly the feds

spk_0 creating these texts. I don't know in order to make you think that this is the suspect. And I

spk_0 read the text and I did think they were super awkward. I thought they were two on the nose. I didn't

spk_0 think that it sounded like a 20-something would text something like this. And that the like

spk_0 trans person on the other side was so innocent and so like, oh my goodness, what do you, I thought it

spk_0 was, I did think it was weird. But then I thought I saw a video going around and actually I'll play it.

spk_0 And it's of this suspect calling a car a vehicle. And then I thought, you know what? He kind of

spk_0 talks like this. Here it is. And then it struck me. These two people may very well be on the

spk_0 autism spectrum. And they may talk awkwardly. Like they may be socially awkward. They may say things

spk_0 that you would think like a typical 20-something wouldn't say they may actually talk like that. But

spk_0 even if it is the thefts, like even if these texts are fake, I still think that this is the guy.

spk_0 I think that we have sufficient evidence, sufficient photographs, sufficient evidence of his

spk_0 discord and Reddit history to say, yeah, this guy, he didn't like Charlie Kirk. And he was a radical

spk_0 and he had been radicalized. And probably living with the so-called trans person was radicalizing.

spk_0 He had gun training. I don't see any reason to believe that this is not the person. He does look like

spk_0 the pictures that were released of the suspect that came down off the roof. I don't understand

spk_0 when people are claiming that he doesn't look like that. He does look like that. So until I see

spk_0 true evidence to the contrary, I just, sorry, I don't believe that it was anyone else.

spk_0 And I don't believe that the government is like covering up for Israel. Again, I just haven't

spk_0 seen evidence of that. All right, we got some questions to ask. We got some things to remember when

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spk_0 Here are some questions to ask. Whenever you're hearing anyone, my self included make claims and make

spk_0 a case for something. Okay, you got to ask these questions. What are the motivations of this person?

spk_0 What are the motivations behind their narrative? Consider why someone is promoting this particular

spk_0 line of thinking. Are they seeking truth? That's a good thing. Or do they have ulterior motives?

spk_0 Like trying to perpetuate continued resentment towards a person or towards an entity that they

spk_0 feel resentment toward or maybe for some people it's attention or power. Whatever it is, there's a lot

spk_0 of people, I especially see a lot of people making all kinds of posts on Instagram that clearly

spk_0 their theories can be poked through with just a little bit of critical thinking, but this has

spk_0 garnered a lot of engagement for them. So it's very difficult when someone, when something gets you

spk_0 a lot of engagement to stop on the basis of morality and ethics. It's very difficult. What evidence

spk_0 have they presented? This is the big one. This is the one that I want you to ask over and over

spk_0 again to me and every single person that you follow or listen to. What evidence has this person

spk_0 presented? Look for concrete, verifiable evidence. Are the claims backed up with data documents,

spk_0 first-hand accounts, or are they speculative? And not just for the claims they're presenting,

spk_0 but the connections between the claims that they're presenting. Are they just making a bunch of

spk_0 claims and then leaving it up to you to speculate and to bring all of those things together? See,

spk_0 that's the difference again in conspiracy theory and critical thinking. Do they cite credible

spk_0 sources? Evaluate whether the sources are reputable, transparent, authoritative, are they vague,

spk_0 are they constantly anonymous? Are they obviously biased? Is the narrative logically consistent? Does

spk_0 it rely on contradictory claims or leaps of faith? That's a good question. You've got to think

spk_0 really hard about these things. I think one of the biggest problems that we have is outsourcing

spk_0 our critical thinking to podcasters and influencers. I don't want you to do that. I don't want you to

spk_0 do that with me. I don't want you to do that with anyone. In fact, as much as I love helping people

spk_0 and giving words to their arguments and beliefs, sometimes I'll get messages like what should I

spk_0 think about this or what should I say to that? I'm like, you should know. You should know you should

spk_0 be able to ask questions. You should be able to think through what someone is saying. At least

spk_0 get to the point of being able to poke holes in their statement. Typically, it's about some claim

spk_0 that a professing liberal Christian is making that is so obviously untrue. I'll get a question

spk_0 from a strong believer. Well, gosh, this is compelling. What do you think about this? Honestly,

spk_0 I just want to say, you know, what do you think about it? You think before you ask me,

spk_0 and this is a good rule of thumb. Before you ask me, before you ask anyone, you think about it first.

spk_0 And you try to dig through it before you outsource your thinking to someone else.

spk_0 Does the narrative align with observable reality? So, test the claims against known facts. Do they

spk_0 require dismissing large amounts of evidence or common sense to be believable? Do you have to

spk_0 suspend what you know to be true in order to believe this person's connections to their

spk_0 presenting to you? What is the fruit of the narrative that they are presenting? Does believing

spk_0 or spreading this theory foster fear, paranoia, chaos, or does it promote better understanding

spk_0 and a better grasp of the truth, evaluate its spiritual and practical outcomes? And I also

spk_0 want to talk to you about nosticism. I think it's really important to know the context of

spk_0 these kinds of narratives and context around true conspiracies. Nosticism emphasizes secret elite

spk_0 knowledge that supposedly reveals like hidden truths about the world that could only be accessed

spk_0 in a special way. So, according to Liginear, nosticism was a prominent movement that grew up around

spk_0 the church in the second century. It also has a pre-Christian origin. It was a cocktail of Persian,

spk_0 Egyptian, Jewish, and Christian ideas with some Greek philosophy thrown in. The word nostic itself

spk_0 means knowing or having knowledge. Having knowledge is a significant part of nosticism to say

spk_0 you are nostic is to say, I know something you don't. I'm in on the secret. I've been enlightened.

spk_0 I'm I've woken up. I'm spiritually on a higher level. And in order for you to access this special

spk_0 knowledge, you have to follow me and you have to enter into this secret door. I mean, this is we

spk_0 see this in the new age. We see this in the self-help, self-love movement. We see this. I would say

spk_0 in the hyper-crunchy world, we also see it in the progressive world that you just have to be

spk_0 woke the way I'm woke. And if you're woke, then I don't really have to tell you the evidence behind

spk_0 these connections because you just you'll just know it because I know it. And I'm going to infuse

spk_0 my secret knowledge into you. That's nosticism. That is pagan cultishness. Okay? And I want to remind you

spk_0 of this passage from Isaiah. That's really important for all of us to remember because the

spk_0 truest thing that is always going on is God's eternal plan of redemption, which is always going off

spk_0 without a hitch. God is never confused. He's never thrown off. He's never wondering what's going on.

spk_0 Full justice and truth will be done and will be revealed in the fullness of time. Does that mean we

spk_0 shouldn't seek truth and justice here today? Of course, we should. I think that's part of the

spk_0 reason we're here on earth, but we have to do it in a way that is logical that is reasonable and

spk_0 that goes more deeply into truth and evidence not away from it. Isaiah 8, 12 through 13, do not

spk_0 call conspiracy. All of this people call conspiracy and do not fear what they fear nor be it and dread,

spk_0 but the Lord of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear. Let him be your dread.

spk_0 So we should not have the same paranoia and the same fear and the same anxiety that the world does

spk_0 because we know who was ultimately in charge. We know where our hope comes from. So if you're going

spk_0 to seek truth and ask questions, seek truth and ask questions from that place, trusting in the

spk_0 sovereignty of God, trusting in his goodness, not from a place of personal control. Don't

spk_0 exchange the God of Scripture for the God of Self that leads to a very heavy burden of anxiety

spk_0 and always. All right, I've got a completely unrelated hard pill to swallow and it's about our

spk_0 girl Taylor Swift. In just one second, let me go ahead and tell you about our last sponsor and then

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spk_0 Okay, moms, your daughters should not be listening to Taylor Swift. They should not be. She is not

spk_0 a role model and it actually baffles me that there are Christian moms who will say, well, she's

spk_0 better than Chapel Room or she's better than bad bunny or she's better than I don't know

spk_0 Selena Gomez, whoever, y'all the bar is in hell. If that is our standard, the bar could not be

spk_0 lower. If we are deciding on the righteousness of our kids entertainment choices based on the

spk_0 most degenerate stuff out there, that is not how Christians should be thinking. We are to pursue

spk_0 what is excellent, what is good, what is praiseworthy and Taylor Swift's music at this point is none

spk_0 of those things. Okay, we're excited that she's getting married. I'm excited that she's getting

spk_0 married. We are excited that she has found a man that she can commit to and love. Yeah, we are

spk_0 excited that she is not celebrating being a homosexual like so many pop artists today. Yeah, okay,

spk_0 we can acknowledge all of those things. We can say that maybe she's not is depraved and

spk_0 disturbed as some of the pop artists out there. All right, we can acknowledge all of that.

spk_0 While also acknowledging that she is not pleasing, good, pure praiseworthy and excellent thoughts

spk_0 in our minds and in the minds of our very impressionable daughters. See, it is different.

spk_0 Teenagers listening to Taylor Swift today, then us listening to Taylor Swift when we were a teenager,

spk_0 when we were teenagers because Taylor Swift was a teenager when we were a teenager.

spk_0 She was crying on her guitar. We were crying on our guitar. She was happy, confused and lonely

spk_0 at the same time. We were happy, confused and lonely at the same time. She was 22. I was 20. Okay,

spk_0 so we were in the same life stage. She was talking about this, you know, silly superficial stuff. She

spk_0 was not talking about opening up her thighs to someone who is not a husband. Okay, and that is

spk_0 literally what she is singing about. There is zero reason for you to allow your daughter to be

spk_0 listening to or going to the concert of Taylor Swift. There is a first that came to mind when I was

spk_0 seeing some of the people share about her lyrics, song of Thelma 27. Do not stir up or awaken love

spk_0 until it pleases. The NIV says, do not arouse or awaken love until it's so desires.

spk_0 And I think it's so important to make sure to do everything that we can to keep our daughters,

spk_0 to keep our kids on the right track spiritually, mentally and emotionally. Like, I think about the

spk_0 mistake that I made when I was a teenager and reading smut, I mean, it wasn't nearly as bad as,

spk_0 you know, the stuff that you see today. It wasn't like explicit 50 shades of gray, but a lot of

spk_0 in you and a lot of like hot and heavy implication about what was going on behind closed doors.

spk_0 That kind of twilight stuff I should not have been reading as a 16, 17 year old alone in my room

spk_0 because it creates a new desire that cannot be fulfilled in a holy way. And purposely consuming

spk_0 content that creates any whether you're an adult, but especially as a teenager that creates in you,

spk_0 a desire, a longing that may be natural, but cannot be fulfilled in a way that is honoring to

spk_0 God is not good. And we as parents are called to steward our children. We can't control them.

spk_0 And I'm not saying we put them in a bubble, but we also don't say, here, honey, this thing that is

spk_0 degenerate and that is encouraging sexual impurity and immodesty and self service and self obsession

spk_0 and sexual promiscuity like, yeah, listen to this. Let's be entertained by the sins that Christ

spk_0 died for. That's not good Christianity. That's not good motherhood. That's my hard felt a swallow.

spk_0 We'll be back here on Wednesday talking about the comparison between George Floyd and Charlie

spk_0 Kirk. What really is margardum? Yes, I will be responding to that Jackie Hill Perry clip that a lot

spk_0 of you guys have sent me and that has been circulating, but we'll have a lot more to talk about on Wednesday as

spk_0 well. So we'll see you guys back here then.

Ep 1250 | Did Israel Kill Charlie Kirk? Investigation vs. Innuendo

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