Cricket Collective - Was Chris Woakes Underrated; Australia's Ashes Auditions & How Can We Fix The West Indies?!

Interactive Transcript

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spk_0 You'll listening to Following On with me, Neil Manthorpe,

spk_0 along with former England fastballer Steve Harmason for the usual jam pack show.

spk_0 We'll start this week with the news that broke just after last week.

spk_0 So, we've finished with Chris Rokes retiring from International Cricket

spk_0 and we'll also reflect on the lion squad name for the tour of Australia later this winter.

spk_0 As the Sheffield Sheel gets underway in Australia,

spk_0 we'll be joined by former Australian fastballer Jason Gillesby

spk_0 to discuss some of the players who could put themselves forward for an ashes call-up

spk_0 and we'll look at how the country has braced less than 50 days out from the start of the ashes.

spk_0 We'll look back at a thumping opening win for England at the Women's World Cup

spk_0 whilst Michelle St Patrick Hewitt will discuss if yet another rescue proposal

spk_0 will help West Indies get back to their best again after being walloped by India

spk_0 in the first test in Armored have had.

spk_0 Plus, of course, we'll bring you the final word and other news items

spk_0 so plenty to come over the next hour.

spk_0 This is Following On.

spk_0 Harmie, I read an excellent article and I'd love to give credit to our fellow's broadcasters

spk_0 and writers in the cricket meeting. I can't remember who wrote it,

spk_0 but it was a very good article suggesting there was an extremely plausible argument

spk_0 to suggest that England would have won neither of their world cups

spk_0 without the contribution of Chris Wokes.

spk_0 We'll talk about his test career and other attributes,

spk_0 but I mean, he was a very, very fine cricketer.

spk_0 I don't think anybody disputes that, but maybe was he given the credit he deserved?

spk_0 Possibly wasn't given the credit he deserved because I think a few contributing factors

spk_0 I think his personality was about the team and it wasn't about him.

spk_0 I mean, his personality in a very, very good way and positive way.

spk_0 I think the way he had to under the radar behind Broadnanderson,

spk_0 I think that was a big factor because Chris Wokes' career lasted a hell of a long time,

spk_0 but El Numbus, he didn't really clear a massive amount if you know where,

spk_0 you know, for the lifespan of his international career,

spk_0 you're going, I think he played, I think his numbers was a little bit more than mine

spk_0 in one day of cricket, a little bit less than mine in test cricket,

spk_0 and my career was about seven and a half years.

spk_0 Now, he's lasted nearly 12 years and more.

spk_0 So I think because he was there for such a long time,

spk_0 he probably doesn't get the credit he deserved because he was in the shadow of Broadnanderson,

spk_0 that article was right and I did read it.

spk_0 I'm sure somebody in the cricket art think, is that a cricket art ESPN?

spk_0 But it was a very, very good article and it was,

spk_0 the points were, you know, very, very valid,

spk_0 two or three innings, and bowling and batting that he produced in them big tournaments,

spk_0 setting them up to go and win, you know, the final.

spk_0 It wasn't in the final, it was in the latter parts of the tournament.

spk_0 It's an interesting one, I'm Chris, because I just wonder if there was more to it.

spk_0 Rob Key was dismissive when he was in his press conference.

spk_0 And I wonder if there was a conversation between Key and Wokes before the oval test match

spk_0 and possibly, did he say, you know, this is the,

spk_0 this is probably going to be the last one if you want to make a decision.

spk_0 And there was no decision needed to be made.

spk_0 But on the surface, it doesn't look,

spk_0 it didn't sit right with me, the way it ended,

spk_0 but we don't know what's happened, you know, behind the scenes.

spk_0 I probably still would have had him in Australia.

spk_0 England are looking for a bowling coach,

spk_0 what they did, Anderson, because they have done that with Wokes and took Wokes as a bowling coach.

spk_0 And if he's there, you know, and someone happens to Stokes and you know,

spk_0 he still fit these, you know, back into the tour, you might,

spk_0 you might have needed him, but it looks as old as Cook,

spk_0 all ties with him. And he has finished when it comes to,

spk_0 to the England cricket team, but does he slip under the radar?

spk_0 Yes, 100% he slips into the radar.

spk_0 His numbers are, are very, very good.

spk_0 And it was, you know, he was influential in England's big, big victories in the recent patch.

spk_0 192 test wickets, well over 3000 test runs with that wonderful hundred at lords.

spk_0 We were never forget that and 750s as well.

spk_0 But it was also the number of times he made 30 in a crucial,

spk_0 crucial six-wicket partnership winning in trouble.

spk_0 He was, he was, he was the reliable character that England wanted.

spk_0 He was, he was arguably too nice of a person and too reliable,

spk_0 too reliable of a character. He wasn't the sort of left field,

spk_0 all single and all, Downsson fast-puller that you have got everybody off their seats.

spk_0 But, you know, when you needed to go to 70, went to seven.

spk_0 You know, we, we, number eight, and got some runs.

spk_0 He was always Mr. Reliable with the ball.

spk_0 But the numbers you mentioned there, 190, 190 wickets in 60 test matches.

spk_0 Like you said before, you know, Mike, Mike,

spk_0 career lasted seven and a bit years.

spk_0 Chris Voxes was 14 years, he made his debut in 2011.

spk_0 He finished in 2015.

spk_0 So, yeah, 2025, sorry.

spk_0 It shows that over the course of the time,

spk_0 he wasn't thought of the England's, you know, number one first pick.

spk_0 And that was largely down to the fact that England had brought Madison.

spk_0 Well, I'm sure that he won't be far from the game.

spk_0 I'd, has he mentioned how long he'll carry on playing for Warwick? Sure.

spk_0 I don't know. I think it may be fitness to him.

spk_0 But he did say a couple of years ago, didn't he?

spk_0 And again, this summer that he wouldn't be playing into his 40s like Jimmy.

spk_0 I think he'd be a brilliant coach.

spk_0 Yeah, be a very good coach.

spk_0 And that's why I thought possibly in New York's intrigue that England

spk_0 haven't got a bowling coach.

spk_0 New York, Neil Colleen's going with the Lions.

spk_0 We're going to be there anyway.

spk_0 You're going to have Freddie out there.

spk_0 So, you've got Swany and Jeet and Patel from the Spin Department.

spk_0 Remember the Lions.

spk_0 It's a small England tour part, he which is 16,

spk_0 but there's Lions out there.

spk_0 And, you know, there's plenty of young lads to work with.

spk_0 I just wondered if Chris Wolkes might have gone with England tour

spk_0 with as a mentor to the Lions, a bowling coach towards the first, you know,

spk_0 the senior side in that dressing room.

spk_0 Because that's what a lot of people talked about Chris Wolkes.

spk_0 He was a, he was a great man in the dressing room to have a good sound and border.

spk_0 Big brother to everybody with no Tim Saudi going to Australia as bowling coach England.

spk_0 Need a coach and there's not many names jumping out in front of me.

spk_0 No England names really.

spk_0 You know, they're not going to take some like down and go off.

spk_0 And you know, because they're not really looking for like don't really look like coach whites.

spk_0 Morning more because not going to go from India.

spk_0 His name is being mentioned.

spk_0 The likes of Dale Stan.

spk_0 The ones somebody that's Australian experience.

spk_0 You know, just Troy cool. He's name come into it.

spk_0 All these characters did a fit with the McCullum Stokes.

spk_0 And staff know why not Chris Wolkes.

spk_0 He's a good guy to have around and he knows the bowlers inside out.

spk_0 I think he'd be a good mentor for the young other England bowlers that the unclean will have.

spk_0 I'm going completely off script here, but.

spk_0 I heard of whisper about Dale stain.

spk_0 So a couple of days ago I bumped into him buying dog food in our local supermarket.

spk_0 And I asked him and he said that's news to me.

spk_0 Yeah, I said would you be interested.

spk_0 And then he just smiled and said yes.

spk_0 So that maybe want to keep an eye on anyway look with it.

spk_0 We should hear from Chris Wolkes himself just before we say goodbye officially from England Colors.

spk_0 What's your experience?

spk_0 I suppose it is a little bit of one of those moments where it's a little bit sad.

spk_0 And I suppose overwhelming decision, but.

spk_0 I kind of had those sort of thoughts creeping into the head.

spk_0 And I suppose with the shoulder injury that I picked up at the back end of the.

spk_0 The series against India in the summer.

spk_0 I kind of may have just forced my hand a little bit.

spk_0 And you know, when I wasn't picked for the for the Ashes tour.

spk_0 Unfortunately, you know, on fitness grounds, it kind of made sense for me to.

spk_0 Move on and let the next generation take over.

spk_0 I suppose Wolkes, you've had an outstanding career.

spk_0 I mean, a legend of the game.

spk_0 X cricket players speak so highly of you as you know, a teammate as a person and as a player.

spk_0 So I wanted to go back and.

spk_0 If you could go back and relive one moment of your career.

spk_0 What would it be?

spk_0 Very tough question.

spk_0 Yeah, it's hard.

spk_0 It's hard, mate.

spk_0 Very fortunate to have had, you know, a long career with England.

spk_0 And you know, some people don't don't get lucky enough as much as I have.

spk_0 So I feel very fortunate and to have spent great memories both on on and off the field.

spk_0 But I think that 2019 win, mate.

spk_0 Well cut win at home.

spk_0 It lords.

spk_0 But it wasn't just a date itself.

spk_0 I mean, it was a dramatic day and the game was was a bit of a crazy one as we all know.

spk_0 But I think the journey that we've been on from 2015 all the way through to 2019 is a team.

spk_0 To turn it around from where we were to be, you know, the best team in the world.

spk_0 And then to take the opportunity at lords, you know, and win a World Cup final at home was amazing to spend that with that group of lads and that team.

spk_0 Well, actually, I'll tell you right now, mate.

spk_0 It's one of the most incredible pieces of sport I've ever watched my life.

spk_0 And you'll be aware of the fact I started watching the Portugal outside right in the matches was unwatched.

spk_0 I think it was Nadal Feather.

spk_0 The given is one of the best tennis finals ever.

spk_0 But I could not take my Zofat daily.

spk_0 Stokeshie diving at the bar at the final over.

spk_0 Even the New Zealand boys catching it on the boundary, not I was with my football.

spk_0 Everything made it was unbelievable.

spk_0 It was written in the stars, Ali, I think that day, mate.

spk_0 There's many moments during that game where it got we'd lost to be honest.

spk_0 And then those those moments happened, as you said, Trent Bolt stepping on the rope when, you know, one of the best builders in the game as well to do that.

spk_0 And then, you know, obviously the situation was stokey where it hit Stokeshie and it hits the bat and goes before like that will never be seen again.

spk_0 For all that to happen in a well cut final was just remarkable.

spk_0 Can't wait for you.

spk_0 They actually coming up me and obviously have this appointment.

spk_0 You mentioned that just with a non inclusion in squad you to injury, but just tell us how do you see it going?

spk_0 How difficult was it going to be for the boys out there?

spk_0 Yeah, it'll always always be difficult going down under mate.

spk_0 You know, it's never never easy going there in those conditions.

spk_0 They're so strong there, but it feels like we've got a great opportunity.

spk_0 More so than, you know, that I've seen in the last 15 years, we've got a great opportunity to go there and do something special.

spk_0 It feels weird sitting on the other side of the fence now.

spk_0 I mean, actually stand here and with confidence say we're going to win.

spk_0 So, yeah, I genuinely think we've got a great chance.

spk_0 And I think we will.

spk_0 It feels like the team's building in the right direction.

spk_0 And we haven't quite got over the line in the last few years in the big series, but I feel like this one could be the time.

spk_0 What has it been like that rivalry with Australia?

spk_0 Because when you speak to all the ex-cricket players, they say some of the things that get said, you can't repeat and the rivalry so intense with them.

spk_0 To be honest mate, similar to what we saw at Beth Page with the golf the other week.

spk_0 It's that sort of atmosphere.

spk_0 You know what I mean? It's very intense and the Aussies do anything to get under your skin.

spk_0 You know, you've got the media and the skin trying to trip you up at any opportunity.

spk_0 And obviously coming up against a world class team every time you go there as well, which is difficult.

spk_0 But the rivalry is fierce. I think it's probably more so off the field than it is on the field sometimes.

spk_0 But it just adds to it, doesn't it?

spk_0 Of course.

spk_0 In the entertainment business and the ashes is always entertaining mate.

spk_0 What about your TV story?

spk_0 What I'm doing when I'm not back and that's slinging against the idea.

spk_0 What were you thinking about me?

spk_0 I was hoping not to face the ball, I'll eat it really well.

spk_0 I won't lie.

spk_0 Yeah, it was one of those moments.

spk_0 Bits are real really. Still looking back at it.

spk_0 It was a bit of a pinch yourself moment.

spk_0 I didn't really think I was ever going to, I thought we were going to walk the game.

spk_0 And then we managed to mess it up unfortunately.

spk_0 But walking down, mate, it was a bit strange.

spk_0 Obviously walking out there with one arm is never ideal.

spk_0 But you got a job to do for the team.

spk_0 And unfortunately we didn't go over the line, I suppose.

spk_0 That's the most annoying thing of it all.

spk_0 But it was never a doubt in my mind that I was going to get out there if needed.

spk_0 And it had been interesting if it was about to face a ball, mate.

spk_0 That's for sure.

spk_0 It's still very soon, Wokey.

spk_0 But I'll go ask you what's next for you because you've got so much experience to offer as a coach.

spk_0 You speak very well to be upon it as well because

spk_0 Addy can tell you and I can tell you another sportsman when you retire.

spk_0 It can be quite dark, mate.

spk_0 You can be waking up on a Monday morning.

spk_0 You're like, oh, I've got no schedule.

spk_0 So prepare yourself for that as well, mate.

spk_0 And what do you feel is next few?

spk_0 I mean, I feel, I mean, I've seen it's quite early doors, mate.

spk_0 But I feel, I feel content with the decision.

spk_0 It feels right.

spk_0 But at the same time, I actually still want to play for a couple of years.

spk_0 If I can, the body is good.

spk_0 Other than the shoulder at the minute.

spk_0 And I'd like to play a bit of County Creek, if you want to show me a bit back there.

spk_0 And then we'll see, mate, hopefully some doors open up regarding the media stuff.

spk_0 I've been doing a little bit over the summer and the last couple of years.

spk_0 And then I'm currently doing my level three coaching badge as well.

spk_0 So a few opportunities, mate.

spk_0 But just try to make sure to stay fit and play for a couple of more years.

spk_0 Roy Key style pundit or...

spk_0 I'm not sure if I've got that first baller, mate.

spk_0 Well, we'll see.

spk_0 Maybe you're...

spk_0 No, I'm thinking the words, mate.

spk_0 You know the brummy on the radio.

spk_0 Please.

spk_0 And that was Chris Woke speaking to Ali McHost and Gabby Agbon Lahore on Talksport Breakfast.

spk_0 And you're listening to Following On with me, Neil Manthor,

spk_0 alongside former England fastballer, Steve Hamason.

spk_0 And a reminder that you can now watch the show on YouTube if you're not doing that already.

spk_0 Just head over to the Talksport cricket YouTube channel and subscribe.

spk_0 And I'm delighted to say, as I said at the top of the show,

spk_0 we're joined live by an old friend, Jason Gilless, be the great former Australian fastballer,

spk_0 who has spent the day commentating on the South Australia Victoria game.

spk_0 We'll come back to that in a minute, Dizzy.

spk_0 But yeah, the start of the Sheffield Shield campaign.

spk_0 It's always an exciting time, isn't it?

spk_0 It's not as the real stuff kicks off just 50 days to go until the ashes.

spk_0 Has anybody made a big move towards putting their hand up for a platt?

spk_0 Well, let's start with Marnus.

spk_0 So we made 160.

spk_0 Yeah, good eye manners and good eye, harmy.

spk_0 Yeah, Marnus, I think Queensland playing Tasmania up in Brisbane and got 160.

spk_0 So that's a good start for him going along.

spk_0 There's a lot of discussions in Australian cricket about who's going to open the batting.

spk_0 Leading into the ashes and George Bailey, the team and the selectors,

spk_0 and Andrew MacDonald, the coach, have both stated that Sheffield Shield formed early parts of the season.

spk_0 I think there's four rounds of Sheffield Shields, so there's plenty of time for many candidates to stake their place.

spk_0 And Dizzy, will there be any sort of left-field picks from the Sheffield stuff?

spk_0 Because it's a minute and you've done a lot of sort of county cricket and MacColumn and Stokes

spk_0 have got so much disregard for county cricket, it's ridiculous.

spk_0 Where George Bailey's going, right, where are you doing Sheffield cricket?

spk_0 It matters. So somebody's going to get it right, somebody's going to get it wrong.

spk_0 But is there somebody from the sort of left field because it looks in this early part that quite a lot of senior players,

spk_0 a lot of experience players, like the Hansken-Renshaw and people like that, of back ups and runs?

spk_0 Yeah, you mentioned Matt Renshaw. He's also School of Tourmans, Pete Hansken, the game here,

spk_0 Selfish Driver's Victoria.

spk_0 Young Henry Hunt, who opens the batting for South Australia, played very well in the first innings for 126 against Scott Bowle

spk_0 and Fergus O'Neill to form Bowle as in the Sheffield Shield.

spk_0 So there's been a few. There's a few more senior players that have been around a while,

spk_0 the likes of Marcus Harris, the likes of Cameron Bancroft, Sam Whitman.

spk_0 You'd think by now, it's been four years and maybe six in the case of Cameron Bancroft or longer,

spk_0 that they haven't been given opportunity. So you just sense that maybe their time has passed and by,

spk_0 that the names that are going around, obviously it was been Kawajia.

spk_0 It looks like he's a lock to open the batting.

spk_0 Marnus's name has been bandied around. Sam Constance is the incumbent, the young fella from New South Wales, 20-year-old batter,

spk_0 Jake Weatherold, who scored a lot of runs for Tasmania last season's Sheffield Shield.

spk_0 Now Tasmania, Bell River, who was known as a tough place to bat these days,

spk_0 very green-seeming surfaces that are tough to bat on, low scores.

spk_0 And he scored over 900 runs last year at average north of 50.

spk_0 So he backed it up. He got 67 in the first innings for Tasmania against Queensland.

spk_0 So there's a few players going around scoring runs.

spk_0 Will the Australian selectors go a bit like what England do? England basically pick players on attributes, really.

spk_0 On what they think could succeed in certain conditions and certain environments.

spk_0 And there's no real regard. There's no rating as you will of County cricket.

spk_0 So I don't think that's quite the case in Australia.

spk_0 The Australian selectors will pick who they think best suited to face.

spk_0 This England attack that the England selectors have picked for this tour.

spk_0 So it'll be interesting to see which way they go, Harmy.

spk_0 Yeah, they pick tall bowlers and first scoring batsmen.

spk_0 So if you bowl and you're not six foot, you've got no chance.

spk_0 And if you strike rates under 80.

spk_0 Back to Australia, the other talking points are the all-rounder bowwebster missed the first round.

spk_0 I see Cameron green padded four and is just returning to bowling.

spk_0 So that's obviously a good sign.

spk_0 Mitch Marsh categorically ruled himself out of an Ashes place.

spk_0 So that's the all-rounder situation as I understand it.

spk_0 What's situation with Pat Cummins?

spk_0 I mean, he's obviously not playing, but is there any updates on his condition?

spk_0 Yeah, I haven't heard anything this week, man.

spk_0 It's about Pat Cummins. He's got hotspots and he's back.

spk_0 I think they're taking an overly cautious approach with the Australian captain.

spk_0 And I think that's a good plan.

spk_0 He doesn't play a lot of domestic cricket anyway.

spk_0 So to give you an idea of how many shoe, Chef Yudjouk gave Pat Cummins as played in his career.

spk_0 32 years of age. He's played nine Chef Yudjouk games.

spk_0 So he basically just plays cricket for Australia.

spk_0 And I think one or two of the various leagues, T20 leagues around the world.

spk_0 So he basically, his focus is on playing for Australia.

spk_0 I don't think you'll play any cricket before.

spk_0 If he's going to play that first Ashes test, I don't think you'll play any cricket.

spk_0 I think he'll back himself to get enough bowling in in center wicket scenarios.

spk_0 Practice these sort of things without having to actually play a first class game.

spk_0 So I suspect he'll play a fairly prominent role.

spk_0 Whether he plays all five test matches is yet to be seen.

spk_0 But I'm, I'm quietly optimistic that he'll have a prominent role in this Australian summer.

spk_0 Lizzie, we've got bowlers like that.

spk_0 We've got obviously Mark Wooden and Joffa Archer to name to that who are not only exciting,

spk_0 but bowlers who don't play a lot of sort of longer format cricket because of their bodies.

spk_0 I mean, when you're talking about the batters, you're talking about sort of runs and Chef Yudjouk.

spk_0 You're talking about the cricket you mentioned, whether role and and consters has had a little bit of international cricket.

spk_0 What sort of characteristics do you want from your batters?

spk_0 If, for instance, Mark Wood plays two test matches, Joffa Archer plays four test matches.

spk_0 This is a different, you need a different skill sets when you're calling up against extreme pace, especially on your Australian wickets.

spk_0 Yeah, most of it lean and Australian batters have been brought up on, on Australian surfaces.

spk_0 So, they're used to that. It will be, I will be very interested to see the type of surfaces that are produced here,

spk_0 because we know England like to play and they prepare surfaces in the UK that is very batter friendly.

spk_0 They look to score and score quickly.

spk_0 England are a very attacking team with the bat in hand, but they're actually a very defensive team with the ball in hand.

spk_0 We see that with the way they bowl, the fields that are set, fields are spread.

spk_0 Stokesy as a captain can get quite impatient if things aren't happening.

spk_0 He likes to change things up a lot. He likes to go to bounce the plans, set very defensive fields, even sets relatively defensive fields for spinners.

spk_0 I suspect that the selections that England have made and having showed Bashir, who's not even the front line spinner at Somerset,

spk_0 as a leading spinner and the only front line spinner in this tour party with Will Jackson, Joe Roo, as a backup suggests to me that England are a little bit concerned about their batting, particularly their top-order batting.

spk_0 They'll be concerned that if they don't get off to decent starts, they'll expose Joe Roo, Harry, Brook and Ben Stokes to the relatively new ball in Australian conditions.

spk_0 I think that they are going to bat deep as deep as they can and look to maintain this positive attitude with the bat, but it will be very interesting to see if that tactic can come off in Australia.

spk_0 Does he just pivot quickly to T20 cricket? Another thumping series went in New Zealand for the Chapel Adley trophy.

spk_0 Australia haven't lost a series since they won the last T20 World Cup, and that's only six months away now.

spk_0 They're looking very good. They seem to have, you can't perfect that format, but they certainly seem to have nailed it for the last 18 months.

spk_0 I think they've got quite a settled lineup, particularly with the bat, with their balls that obviously Pat Cummins has played a lot.

spk_0 Josh Hayes would have played a bit to be fair, but Mitchell Stark has played much other.

spk_0 So it likes a Vsavia Bartlett, Ben Dorschis, Spencer Johnson, before he got injured.

spk_0 It played a few games. Sean Abbott has been playing Nathan Ellis.

spk_0 I think they've really settled, Adam Zampa, one of the better white balls spinners going around.

spk_0 I think Australia quite settled. Tim Davids has been given a bit more responsibility, being moved up to four, but we saw Mitch Mars.

spk_0 I think he played one of the T20 innings for the ages the other night, when Australia were chasing 157 to win.

spk_0 In a spot of bother, and he finished unbeaten on 102, I think 103 scored the majority of the rounds.

spk_0 He was playing on a different surface manners. He was absolutely outstanding.

spk_0 He's leading this team very well. He's a very popular leader, Mitch Marsch.

spk_0 And I think they're in a very good headspace Australia going into these next six months and into a T20 World Cup.

spk_0 Is it good to hear you on the commentary, doing much commentary for the ashes?

spk_0 And here you've got an early wake-up call for the morning.

spk_0 First of all, yeah, I'll be on the ABC radio this summer for the first three test matches, Hamie.

spk_0 So they'll be heard on the BBC. So really looking forward to that.

spk_0 But yeah, I'd date one of this Sheffield tube games when it's out the Australian Victoria.

spk_0 It was about five to six in the morning. I was downstairs having some toast and having some water.

spk_0 I hear the doorbell ring. So I think it's pretty strange for a Saturday morning.

spk_0 The doorbells ring. I'm not normally up at that time, but I was getting ready and having something to eat.

spk_0 So I went to my front door and I looked through the people.

spk_0 And there was this character where dressed in only a cricket helmet, a jock strap, and holding a cricket bat.

spk_0 And he's going, dizzy, dizzy, yeah, I want to meet you.

spk_0 And I'm just having a look at him and he's clearly had a night out.

spk_0 There's no question of that. And he said, I lost a bet.

spk_0 And I said, I can see that, mate.

spk_0 And he's proceeded to tell me I lost a bet on how I said, mate, good, but I'm not opening my door.

spk_0 I'm sorry, mate. You are holding a cricket bat.

spk_0 So he was fine. He looked a bit tired, a little bit worse for wear.

spk_0 And also he was incredibly apologetic.

spk_0 I think he was actually pretty embarrassed, to be honest.

spk_0 And he said, dizzy, I'm sorry, sorry, I said sorry about three or four times.

spk_0 I said, it's okay mate. No dramas. Hope you have a good day.

spk_0 And that was it. It was just one of those bizarre experiences that happened from time to time.

spk_0 I was a little bit concerned from a safety of my saia.

spk_0 So I'm random person just knocking on your door at six a.m. on a Saturday morning.

spk_0 But I went back inside and my wife had woken up and she yelled from the top of the stairs.

spk_0 Who was that? And I explained what it was and she just burst out laughing.

spk_0 She thought it was hilarious. So yeah, but anyway, a funny story and told it on comms on that day.

spk_0 And yeah, it kind of went viral and yeah, it was quite funny in the end.

spk_0 It wasn't honest. Was it 18? So yeah, do some funny things.

spk_0 We're just picking back.

spk_0 No, it's really wasn't honest. He was up in Brisbane, getting ready for the show.

spk_0 Game up there. It's Tessie, but yeah, look, it was a funny experience.

spk_0 You look back now a couple of days later and it's quite funny.

spk_0 But at the time it was a, yeah, bizarre. It's probably the word to describe it, honey.

spk_0 Just finally, if you put your hat on where Australia's teams can be,

spk_0 I could probably name England's team now. We probably do get Bethel,

spk_0 Root, Brook, Stokes, Smith. And then I think England might be foreseemers in person.

spk_0 I think they might go with Woods fit. Look, I always would arch a cast in Atkinson.

spk_0 I think that will be England's 11. Have you got a steer on where you think Australia's 11 will be?

spk_0 Look, it's still a little bit up in the air. And I think as the selectors have said, honey,

spk_0 they want to see shoot form. If Sam pulses gets a score in the next couple of Shiffield shoot games,

spk_0 I think he's a chance that they've invested some time and effort,

spk_0 time and energy into Sam Consistence and young player.

spk_0 I think we've got to remember as well, we've got to manage our expectations as a cricket fraternity.

spk_0 This kid is doing all his learning and about first class cricket in the international arena.

spk_0 So, you know, it's a big stepping stone. The advantage is he's got a cool calm head at the other end in Ausman, Coagia.

spk_0 So unless he absolutely stinks it up in Schill cricket, I expect him to be at the top of the order.

spk_0 If he doesn't, then I'd say Jake Weatherall, the Tasmania notary public loan signing, we'll get around.

spk_0 As for number three, Cameron Greens been batting three, but I think now that he's back bowling,

spk_0 I suspect he'll drop down to six, which would mean no room for Bow Webster,

spk_0 which is he would be unfortunate to miss out, but I think if he's not in the, as a fourth Seema,

spk_0 he then has to be judged as a batter alone.

spk_0 And I don't think he quite makes a team as a batter alone in the top six.

spk_0 So I would have Cameron Green at six. I'd bring Manus back in at number three,

spk_0 and then you had Steve Smith at four and Travis head at five.

spk_0 Then you'd have Carrier seven, and then the big four star Cummins Hazelwooden Lion

spk_0 with if Pat Cummins is not fit, then Scott Bowle comes in.

spk_0 Does he have been commentating all day? I'm sure there's something cold with the head on it waiting for you.

spk_0 No, I'm actually managed. I'm actually going to, I haven't had done any fitness work.

spk_0 I had a walk yesterday, but I haven't run for a couple of days.

spk_0 I'm actually going to jump on the treadmill and punch out a little half an hour run.

spk_0 So I'm going to be active. It's about a proche 730 PM here.

spk_0 But I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm committing to a run before I have dinner.

spk_0 So yeah, it has been a long day, but I want to get that in.

spk_0 Good thanks, there's a, we'll chat to you before the ashes starts. That's for sure.

spk_0 No problem at all. Good to chat, boys.

spk_0 The one and only Jason Gillespion. What a great man he is.

spk_0 You're listening to following on with me, Neil Manthorpe along with former England fastballer,

spk_0 Steve Harminson. Next up in part three, we'll discuss if there is a need for two tier test cricket,

spk_0 that old chestnut after the West Indies innings defeat in India.

spk_0 And we'll discuss the latest changes in cricket West Indies.

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spk_0 You're listening to following on with me, Neil Manthorpe along with Simon,

spk_0 former England fastballer, Steve Harminson.

spk_0 And if you have missed any of the show, you know what to do.

spk_0 You can catch up, download the podcast from the following on feed available as always via the free talks board app or wherever else you get your podcast.

spk_0 Right, let's look at England's start to the World Cup campaign, Harmi.

spk_0 It was, they were awesome.

spk_0 I mean, South Africa's captain, Laura Wolfart said it's just one of those days, but England were awesome.

spk_0 Lindsay Smith was magnificent with the new ball.

spk_0 She's been doing that job at domestic level for years and doing it brilliantly.

spk_0 It's damage. She's a little bit quicker than the conventional spinner.

spk_0 And she sort of gets drift, doesn't she?

spk_0 And I mean, she was actually swinging, little in swingers with the arm ball, absolutely brilliant.

spk_0 Anyway, South Africa were built out for 69 Amy Jones with 40 and Tammy Vomont, 21, not to run off inside 15 overs.

spk_0 It was embarrassing.

spk_0 I watched most of the game and it was South Africa were humiliated, but it wasn't just there ineptitude.

spk_0 England, as I said, were very good.

spk_0 I watched them, I watched England ball.

spk_0 Sorry, Tammy, I didn't see you back.

spk_0 I don't tell me Kim on the show last week, but I didn't see, I didn't see you back.

spk_0 But I mean, there were ruthless.

spk_0 It was a great performance, a freshener for the feeling was brilliant as well.

spk_0 I don't know when you talk about when your team's on top and it's easy.

spk_0 It's when your team's not on top to keep the energy and buzz around in the field in sort of hot conditions.

spk_0 Well, like you say, Lindsay Smith, the World's issue was a pick the baller, 37.

spk_0 But it was a wish you went about her job.

spk_0 And I think whenever England started well in a tournament, whether it's men or women,

spk_0 there's a huge buzz around and there's also a huge watch around the rest of the tournament's dress moons

spk_0 because England, Australia and India, if they start to start a tournament with a big,

spk_0 crushing defeat and a big win and all of a sudden it's like people are now concerned about you

spk_0 rather than concerned about their own game.

spk_0 And I think that's what Charlotte Edwards and that's given Broncos done in this first game.

spk_0 You know, they ran straight over the top of South Africa and made sure that when they come to the next game,

spk_0 they run rates high, they've just balled the team out for less than 70, knocked it off quickly.

spk_0 And most importantly, they're bowlers.

spk_0 They're slow bowlers in these conditions are on top, top form to the South of England and ball really well as well.

spk_0 So, you know, it was a professional performance.

spk_0 It was a ruthless performance.

spk_0 It was a performance not just on numbers that you sort of you see from the bowling figures point of view.

spk_0 I thought it was a great team performance, especially in the field because that's the only bit I've seen.

spk_0 I didn't see the back bit, but you know, very, very good start.

spk_0 Set a market down.

spk_0 Have dressing rooms talking about England now and ride that wave and get on, you know, especially in an tournament in a tournament situation.

spk_0 OK, let's see here from Lindsey Smith.

spk_0 She was warning against complacency.

spk_0 I must say there isn't much time to to oversell a baritone or be complacent or any other emotions in this schedule because there's only like three days between games.

spk_0 Anyway, this was Lindsey Smith as he said four overs, three for seven.

spk_0 First games always a tough one.

spk_0 We didn't expect it to be that strong for us, but we knew how dangerous South Africa were and the depth that they have in their buying.

spk_0 So I think the way that we carried on and kept putting pressure on them is something that we can be really proud of as a group.

spk_0 Obviously we saw Bangladesh won their first game as well.

spk_0 So it's not something we want to look too far into.

spk_0 Obviously we're delighted with the win today and started off really well.

spk_0 I think like I said, every baller came on and made an impact in their plans they had and the execution skills were really high today.

spk_0 So for us, it's a real confidence booster.

spk_0 And obviously we spoke about getting off on the right foot here and putting in a really good performance for the first game and taking that momentum in.

spk_0 But we're not going to get too carried away or look too far ahead.

spk_0 I think Bangladesh next game is another tough challenge and something that we'll reflect on and plan towards over the next few days.

spk_0 That's England left on spinner at Lindsey Smith who opened the bowling against South Africa and was pretty much unplayable.

spk_0 Let's talk about some other stories, Harmi, that may have caught your attention or your eye.

spk_0 Andy Flowers has been appointed the new head coach of London spirit.

spk_0 Justin Langa was only there at lords for one season.

spk_0 Flower was talking about because he of course was with the Trent Rockets, one the hundred with the Trent Rockets.

spk_0 But he was talking about being particularly pleased to be teaming up again with Moe Bobbott.

spk_0 Yes, I mean, London spirit. I've got to do something kind of they've got the richest owners.

spk_0 They've got lords, cricket ground to play at in the pit of a shambles of a team.

spk_0 So that's nothing against Justin Langa.

spk_0 You come in, you know, one tournament and ruthless nature of the hundred.

spk_0 You know, there's a good man there in in Langer and as a great man there in in Andy flower from a coaching point of view.

spk_0 And put this way, if Trent, they've London spirit finished bottom next year, then there's a problem with London spirit because you've got the best.

spk_0 It's simple as that. I mean, you eat a cereal winner wherever he's gone, whether he's a player.

spk_0 And he's been a coach who's been a real real cereal winner.

spk_0 And now he's going to go to London spirit to have had serious problems with their franchise of getting them in a position to win.

spk_0 Not just matches, but it'd be a real force in this tournament.

spk_0 So I mean, it's a brilliant move. Unfortunately for Trent Rockets, lords, we've got a good man there and I'm sure he'll turn them around because if he doesn't, then there's some serious problems at London spirit of Andy flower can't do it.

spk_0 Yeah, and just a reminder, my Bobbott was England's high performance manager or a variation on that title.

spk_0 Anyway, they teamed up at Royal Challenges, Bangalore and won the IPL as well.

spk_0 So I honestly think Andy flowers can have to get an extension to his trophy cabinet in South Africa.

spk_0 We'll now only play three T20s in the entire South African summer that we're going to play five against the West Indies, but the T20 World Cup's been moved forward a couple of days.

spk_0 So now the entire content of South Africa's international men's summer will be three T20s.

spk_0 That makes me too angry. I'm not even going to ask you for a comment on that. Zimbabwe and Namibia qualified.

spk_0 You notice that? Qualified actually as T20 World Cup. So congratulations to them.

spk_0 I wanted to actually ask you, Harmie, about Virakali and Rohit Sharma, who've been told by Chief Selection Chief Selector, Ajit Lagarca, that they must play domestic 50 over Chris.

spk_0 Now, the last time Virakali played domestic international cricket in India was 2013, 50 over cricket.

spk_0 Rohit Sharma hasn't played since 2018. And Ajit Lagarca has said, and Virakali lives in London.

spk_0 So it's not going to be particularly convenient unless you've got a private jet he might have.

spk_0 Anyway, he said you want to play. They're going to be 38 and 40 respectively by the time the 27, 20, 27, 50 over World Cup comes around.

spk_0 So he said, you've got to play domestic cricket and you've got to keep scoring runs.

spk_0 Basically brackets, you might be Virakali and Rohit Sharma, but you can't take anything for granted.

spk_0 Do you see a messy end forming?

spk_0 Yeah, unfortunately, I might, I think there might be a messy end for Ajit there.

spk_0 I think if anybody's going to win here, I think it's going to be there's former captains rather than the former all-rounder.

spk_0 But it all depends on if a garter's saying this just to sort of fuel the fire of Koli and Sharma, then you know fair enough, you put your cards on the table and say what comes.

spk_0 I think Koli's got a little bit of skin in the game, you know runs in the bank and I think he's reputation.

spk_0 Sharma not as much. You know, Sharma's a little bit older. He's not being as influential in 50 over cricket as what Virak has.

spk_0 If Virak turns around and says, all right, you got the 50 over World Cup without me and lead not to it.

spk_0 And let's see when you chase in 350 in 50 overs to win a game against Australia or England or whatever.

spk_0 And you haven't got that block of averages 90 and winning games at number four.

spk_0 But see what you're teaming at. I reckon our reckon a private jet will be put on from London.

spk_0 It's not winning things like that. So there could be a messy ending that way.

spk_0 It could also be words that have been sort of misunderstood in translation.

spk_0 He might have just said, look, I want them to play it because they're not playing. That's the problem.

spk_0 They're not going to be playing the not playing test cricket, not 20 20 cricket.

spk_0 They're only going to play the IPL and if 50 over cricket is at the back end of the end, not with the IPL is.

spk_0 We could do the plan a couple of domestic games. That possibly be the way it's been put across by a garter.

spk_0 And it's been blown out of proportion. But what you got to remember is these guys, they haven't played since 2013 and 2018 respectively because they've been playing nonstop India.

spk_0 And you know, I mean, the amount of cricket they're playing, you look at Virat's career numbers compared to somebody like Chris Wilkes's career numbers, who we were, we were debating in the first section.

spk_0 Their career's lifespan was probably a similar of a similar distance.

spk_0 I think Virat, Madiz Divuane, of around about 2008, 2009, he played in 400 international, you know, 100 not test matches where we play more test matches than them.

spk_0 So the reason why the Hamlet player since then is because they've been constantly on the road with India.

spk_0 So like I said before, if a garter is looking for a fight, yeah, he might get one and he's not going to win unfortunately.

spk_0 This is not going to distance. We're not looking for three judge goals here. I mean, this could be a heavy knockout in the first round, especially if he got, if he tries to go in without, especially Virat in the start losing or the start.

spk_0 This, they're not as in your face as what spiky is what when Virat's playing. There's an identity with that one decide in Virat's heavily, you know, East Front Centre of that identity.

spk_0 If I said Virat Curly was the best 50 over batsman of all time, I assume you wouldn't tackle me to the ground.

spk_0 No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I didn't, I mean, I did say a real, I'll send you the details and you try and do it compared to that.

spk_0 I got asked to pick 25, 25 greatest curriculars in order from the last 25 years.

spk_0 Oh, and it was, I mean, one in McGraw one even on it. So I don't know how, how that, how somebody's misprinted on something's come off.

spk_0 It was for for Crickin for when I put Virat Colgate number one over such in Tendulco because now that, that would have raised a lot of eyebrows because, but I thought his career and what he had to do in his career was, I thought the way the game changed over the course of this last 10 years.

spk_0 But Virat had to have to deal a hell of a lot more off the field stuff that would affect him on the field.

spk_0 I think for me in the last 20, 30 years, the greatest cricket that's played the game.

spk_0 You have texturing one out there because he come along with it before I think is Virat Colgate.

spk_0 You're listening to following on with me Neil Manthorpe alongside former number one, Boulder in the world, Steve Harnerson.

spk_0 Right. Let's talk about the West Indies with Michelle Sampatric here at Host of the Brilliant Caribbean Cricket Podcast.

spk_0 Shocking, well, I don't know if they're shocking, was anybody shocked?

spk_0 Very strong indie and teen thrashed the West Indies in the first test in Armada Bed by an innings and 140 runs inside three days, Mash.

spk_0 Just before we come to you actually, let's just remind ourselves what Captain Rostin Chase said about the issues back in the Caribbean and how he hopes that they can improve in the future.

spk_0 Yes, there is obviously a struggle in the Caribbean for finances.

spk_0 So whatever help we can get if they're planning to get the help, I hope that we do get it so that we could strengthen the infrastructure for the cricket.

spk_0 I think the systems in the Caribbean are a bit poor in terms of training facilities and stuff, but I'm not using that as an excuse or something to hide behind for poor performances that we've been putting out lately.

spk_0 I still think the one assist is on the players to find somewhere to turn up runs and cricket and stuff.

spk_0 If I said no, I wouldn't be a true West Indie. Obviously, we don't right now, but there have been times where we've been up and other teams have been down and they've risen.

spk_0 So I would never say that a resurrection is not possible for us, but we're going to have to take some small steps and try to find our real backup, you ladder.

spk_0 That was Rostin Chase. He says they're in a difficult period. I mean, we're just never in the test where they're in.

spk_0 They're not the only team to have been thrashed in Armada Bay. But you just get the sense that the cricket world is so desperate for the West Indies to become more consistent or more competitive.

spk_0 First of all, your initial thoughts on that tour before we come on to yet another rescue package that has been proposed.

spk_0 Yeah, I think first and foremost, the result, as you said at the top, nothing about that result was a surprise.

spk_0 I think if you, me or Harmy had to predict what was going to happen in that test match before it started, it would have gone exactly how we predicted.

spk_0 And the worst thing is in some quarters, myself probably included because of the 27 or LL versus Australia, there's even an argument to say that this is an improvement given what happened a couple of months ago.

spk_0 And weirdly, actually, this defeat, they actually lost by more in 2018 against India.

spk_0 So that's a very scant kind of reward to look at there. But I think it more so. All of that just more so speaks to something that I've said on the show many times before.

spk_0 There has to be a second tier of test cricket is going to continue. And if we're going to have all of this conversation about trying to protect test cricket, then there has to be a second tier of cricket for nations that for every reason are now at stage where they cannot compete on anything approaching any kind of regular basis against the top side.

spk_0 So in the short, so it's certainly in the short to midterm. I think the ICC have to make a move on that front and find a way to fund a second tier of test cricket.

spk_0 Yeah, I'm not big fan of the second tier of test cricket. I look at and the West Indies is obviously the prime example. It's the system in test cricket is broken.

spk_0 I think who do you blame here for my West Indies point of view? You can't blame the players that are playing there because they're the ones that have decided they're not going to go off to your money and go down the franchise.

spk_0 We represent West Indies. I think you've got to give them a huge amount of credit. But if you go down the sort of the two tier system, like Manas said many times one, you'll never get out of tier two into tier one.

spk_0 So that's that for me is one one aspect of it in the other aspect of it are the West Indie. Are you looking at a two tier system to try and provide better cricket outcome for your West Indie side or you're just sort of happy with masking the problem that we're not fixing the real fundamental problem is we don't we can't get people to represent the West Indies in the 20s 50 over and red ball cricket.

spk_0 And that seems to be the problem that I don't think these legends that have come out of the woodwork and saying this is what the West Indies cricket need to do. Then they're not bringing up any solutions. So what are the solutions to try and help that rather than say, oh, well, take easy without the two tier test cricket.

spk_0 So I'm going to I'm going to try and approach that from two different angles here. So I think the first thing is my only desire for a second tier of cricket is to help the team and to help the players.

spk_0 I think I put something out the other day and I don't know if you're both going to be shocked at this or agree, but I genuinely believe that the West Indies are no better than islands in bad way.

spk_0 And that sounds like I'm being disrespectful to to islands in bad way or maybe even the West Indies by genuinely believe that's our level maybe throwing Bangladesh and Pakistan because Pakistan are in free pool right now, right.

spk_0 But I genuinely believe I believe that's our level and when that's your level what like they used to there's a line of argument that some people have that you can't get better if you don't expose yourself against the best.

spk_0 But after what certainly in the whole of the 21st century, I don't remember West Indies ever playing well in India in the 21st century. Yes, there was the shock when the gather last year, but that wasn't anomaly compared to what's happened in most of the 21st century, right.

spk_0 When West Indies go to England, they okay, there's been a couple two ones, but outside of the one test victories, there's where we're defeated inside two and a half days, right.

spk_0 So when we go to South Africa is similarly there's links upon links in South Africa. So I don't and we're about to go to New Zealand. It doesn't get easier.

spk_0 New Zealand at the end of the year. So when I look at those games against the kind of good test nations, I don't see any level of consistent improvement that suggests that we're learning.

spk_0 And then when you throw in your point, harm you about the fact obviously that West Indies suffer more than most when it comes to T20 cricket taking away some of our players before they can even learn to play red ball cricket.

spk_0 I think there's just a line of argument that says let's try and learn to win and to learn to win you have to play teams that in and around you. That's one argument.

spk_0 The second way of looking at it is to say that there is loads of the there are sorry loads of deficiencies off the pitch.

spk_0 There are nothing to do necessarily with the players that mean that the players are hamstrung by the system that they're in they can't get better because the system limits their ability to get better whether that a Russian chase talk about infrastructure.

spk_0 Right in the Caribbean this has been there's been an issue now for going on 25 years if not more. So there's an infrastructure issue.

spk_0 There's a huge funding issue. We've just had the big press conference last week by Chris West Indies where they basically admitted that they're broke and there is no we've just shortened our first class season.

spk_0 We've got rid of two teams and said we can't they've literally admitted they can't afford to fund a bigger first class system.

spk_0 They've admitted that the money's just not there they've admitted believe or not that they've had to send Brian Lauren Vibricchard out to India to basically go meet Indian philanthropists to see if they can find anyone that wants to invest in West Indies cricket where broke.

spk_0 So if we're broke and we're saying that there's a financial issue in terms of fixing these off the pitch issues for the cricketers.

spk_0 How can we improve in in that regard as well. So I don't want to say there's no light at the end of the tunnel but it's very bleak and when you add on the defeats on top of it it's hard.

spk_0 It's hard to let you see a stuck in a negative loop because the players can't aren't getting better.

spk_0 The defeats are getting worse and there's nothing that we can do about it at the same time and you can't get funded if the team's not any good but there's no money to make the team any good.

spk_0 So you're stuck in this you're just stuck in this loop not going anywhere.

spk_0 Masham it's a candlelight rather than a spotlight but I just wanted to ask you about the sort of parochial thinking and closed-mindedness that there has been around West Indie and cricket for a while.

spk_0 One of the most enlightening podcasts that you did on the Caribbean cricket podcast was about the West Indie and diaspora around the world and the descendants of West Indie and who are playing cricket at a very high level.

spk_0 Could they be encouraged back and there were administrators who said no, no, you have to be born and bred in the Caribbean or at least born in the Caribbean.

spk_0 That kind of closed-minded thinking that doesn't exist with the football team as you pointed out.

spk_0 That's just one example of you know we were very frustrated when you were saying like open your minds.

spk_0 We need to think out of the box and you have to be born in the Caribbean you have to play domestic cricket.

spk_0 All of those kind of rules which are passe they're long gone. Are there other examples that I don't want to get you wound up here.

spk_0 I'm the one is sounding frustrated now.

spk_0 Yeah so interestingly enough so again in that press conference 10 days ago they announced that they now have their talent scout manager who is they didn't give any details.

spk_0 I probably need to go and find out some more to the story but they admitted for the first time in public that they have reached out to some players in the diaspora to see their interest in representing the West Indies.

spk_0 And I'm going to to my own I'm going to blow my own horn here. I reckon they wouldn't have done that if I hadn't said anything.

spk_0 So because it was raising a couple of press conferences a few months ago and they said that they weren't going down that line so obviously something has changed so maybe they're starting to realize you can't just keep doing the same thing again and again and again and expecting the results.

spk_0 I'm going to miraculously change now I'm going to suggest something as well that they could do to look outside the box which they haven't said yet.

spk_0 And I'm intrigued to see what you and Harmy say here. They've made it clear that they want to try and get funding from elsewhere in the world to help West Indies cricket as well as trying to engage corporate Caribbean.

spk_0 It seems that the Saudis are very interested in getting involved in cricket.

spk_0 I've now openly saying that West Indies should try to reach out to Saudi involvement in West Indies cricket.

spk_0 And that man if the Saudis want to get involved in there's no better project to get involved in the West Indies cricket. That's all I'm going to say. That's where they should cast their attention.

spk_0 Well, Mash, I support Newcastle United. I'm 14 years of Mike Ashley. The Saudis came in and I tell you what you want to see the party that the Newcastle fans had.

spk_0 Yes, we've got to be realistic. The Saudis come with the huge match group.

spk_0 Many of the human rights element and all that the stuff that goes with what is Saudi Arabia and the but I mean 20,000 Jody standouts in James's park when Mike Ashley went in the Saudis went they just wanted their football team fixed.

spk_0 And that that might not be a popular view. I probably want the popular view and I stand by that when somebody wants to throw Chris is a map me because I was at St James's park yesterday again working on talk sport for the not and follow scheme and there's 52,000 people who are completely different mindset to where there were four years ago when Saudi's hadn't come into Newcastle United.

spk_0 If there is money like that to come in and the West Indies is a project of historical value, then look money into the game produces better cricket better cricket produces more interest more interest produces a vibrant section of the world, which has been lost for 30 years.

spk_0 So I wouldn't be adverse against Saudi Arabia coming into it. You look at documentaries were back to him and things like that and what they're doing with boxing and everything they're coming in eventually so why not in that part of the world.

spk_0 So but the will undoubtedly you will have the people who who are opposed to Saudi coming in so it won't be easy. I know that first and from we're supporting Newcastle United, but I look at where we were three years ago, three and a half years ago under my custody to where we are now.

spk_0 The actual vibrancy of the football club is ridiculous and I understand and armed with the other side of it, but at the end of the day we can't control that side of it.

spk_0 We can't control what's going on inside to every area. So on that side, I wouldn't have a problem with them when he coming into cricket because I think the met cricket better especially to come into that part of the world which is dying.

spk_0 I think as you say it's coming in regardless. So when it comes to the West Indies or not, it's coming into the game. So it's how the game then decides to react once that movie does come in.

spk_0 One thing they do need to do cricket West Indies, however, mash is get you on the board.

spk_0 I've been waiting for my invite. I'm miles away. It hasn't turned up yet, but maybe it's because I wouldn't be able to hold my tongue.

spk_0 It's certain situations. But to be fair, it's interesting that you say that because Carlos Braffway has just he stood for election in the Barbados cricket association and has just been he won.

spk_0 I got the most votes and is now a director in the Barbados cricket association. And when I spoke to Carlos Braffway about it and said what convinced you to stand for it, you said we need more players from my generation that understand where cricket is at right now and how that he's because Carlos's point was with no, with no disrespect to those have gone before cricket from the 80s is no longer cricket now.

spk_0 And so Carlos's I could stand on the sidelines and I could do commentary and I could talk about the the wills and the walls or I can go and get involved and bring the game up to date with the challenges we face now.

spk_0 And his experiences have have navigated that as a player. So if not me, certainly players from that region, we could do with them getting involved and again without being disrespectful, not always thinking that the answer lies with let us go to our legends.

spk_0 Like we need to ask ourselves a question are 2020 can 2025 problems be solved by thinking from the 1990s? I think it's harsh, but I think we do have to ask ourselves those questions.

spk_0 And that's a great great point you make and we'd be great if Carlos can do that. You just look at English cricket.

spk_0 I English cricket, I wasn't saying was cricket was in a bad place. When you look at the eyes that English cricket had on up until Rob Keke came in.

spk_0 And Rob Keke completely different set of eyes, completely different set of ideas of where he saw cricket.

spk_0 And that for me is cricket in this century rather than cricket in the old century. Yes, quite a few of us would like his team to rent it in every now and again. We can't have a perfect well.

spk_0 But the way Rob Keke looks at the game of cricket is not the same way as the old school time again, the way the stuffiness of the MCC was.

spk_0 Even to the point where some of us criticize some of the press conference he had a bias because he wanted me best minutes.

spk_0 But every time he speaks, he speaks with so much sense, so much clarity of where he thinks the game needs to go.

spk_0 And it's in this time, not in the time when the West Indies were greater when England won the ashes in 2011 and would it in 86 and all that.

spk_0 It's realism. And unfortunately, I don't think them sort of self-prev… self-prev… preservationed old men who look after themselves first and then the game.

spk_0 I think that's sometimes the problem. And I think Rob Keke for me has been a breath of fresh air into English cricket. He hasn't getting everything right.

spk_0 And that possibly is what Carlos Brathwirt and one or two others could bring to a region which is desperate need of possibly a bit of reason.

spk_0 I would just say, because Manus is with us, the only other thing I would add is that I do think West Indies could take a look at what South Africa and South Africa by no means perfect for Steve.

spk_0 But they take a look at South Africa and New Zealand in particular and say what a bridge to do to keep themselves relevant.

spk_0 Now obviously South Africa and New Zealand have a great production line, but so do the West Indies, right?

spk_0 It's not like we don't have youngsters coming through. But what have they managed to do to keep themselves relevant in a game which technically has gone past those two as well?

spk_0 But they're still able to get to World Finals and be competitive at the highest level.

spk_0 And I do, again, part of that thinking out of the box and involved meeting with their compatriots in South Africa and New Zealand and saying,

spk_0 how do we maintain the competitiveness, teach us what you did and take the best from the South African game and the Kiwi game,

spk_0 build up to the West Indian scenario.

spk_0 Manus, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you once again in less than ideal circumstances.

spk_0 But you know what, as I said, there's a candlelight at the end of the tunnel. It's still flickering. Thanks, mate.

spk_0 No problem. Thank you very much.

spk_0 That's always brilliant, Michelle St Patrick, Hugh. It host of the Caribbean cricket podcast and I have to say it's worth checking out.

spk_0 Obviously they've been doing some brilliant stuff recently.

spk_0 Harmi, onto the final word. And let's begin with the story that you will be much more familiar with than me.

spk_0 After 27 years at Durham, the men's academy director John Windows steps away from his role due to poor health.

spk_0 That's great service that tell us about John.

spk_0 I mean, the final word is not me like 10 seconds, 20 seconds, my case sometimes 30 seconds. Have you got half an hour?

spk_0 You mean you didn't mean you did a podcast, not podcast, we did a lunch fill.

spk_0 I talk about five influential cricketers and I mentioned Jeff Cook and I hold this old disman, John Windows in such a regard.

spk_0 There are people who in English cricket who have had legacies, whether it's England captains, pop players, top batters,

spk_0 but those people who have had legacies around the country who have not had their name in lights.

spk_0 They're the heroes of our game.

spk_0 John Windows is definitely one of them.

spk_0 A self-samombed brown and poor conning wood.

spk_0 Not the only three cricketers that Durham, England players, I played for England that John Windows didn't come to John Windows tutorship.

spk_0 John Windows been there for 27 years and not only, you know, in the last sort of 20 years, England have produced more players for it.

spk_0 Durham have produced more players for England than every other country, part from New Yorkshire and Surrey.

spk_0 And that's testament to a guy who takes these kids at 10, 11, 12 years old, molds them into what the club eat us is, understands what the challenges are for young, young cricketers who are trying to make a way for themselves in the game.

spk_0 And the game that they love and potentially has to break their hearts at 18, 19 and say, you're not good enough to put a cricket anymore.

spk_0 We have there isn't a spot for you.

spk_0 I go and try and find somewhere, somewhere else.

spk_0 And then you get the players that go on and have a good first class career.

spk_0 And then you have the players like Stokes, Carson, you know, Stoneman.

spk_0 I mean, I can keep going. I can keep going plunker onions the whole lot of come through young Windows.

spk_0 About 18 months ago, I think he became a little of health.

spk_0 And he still fought on to be Durham's Academy director because he loves doing what he does best, which is out there on the train and field.

spk_0 Molding young kids, being very, very harsh with them because each eyes and pushes them to be their very best version of themselves.

spk_0 And for me, it's sad that he's not even fully, but I think he is, he's staying on as a mentor.

spk_0 I've always said Durham County Career Club should name the ground after Jeff Cook.

spk_0 Well, if they do, then the entrance, the entrance where should be named after John Windows for what he's done.

spk_0 And like I said before, there are legacies of player of people who don't get their name in lights.

spk_0 Well, this is me trying to give John his name in lights because he won't, he won't thank me for it.

spk_0 I played with John for North England. He's a year older than me.

spk_0 I played with John for North England as a 11, 11 year old through to 16.

spk_0 He then played with Durham's second team. He then became Durham's Academy director when Jeff Cook took over his coach.

spk_0 And he's been there ever since and he's produced some unbelievable characters both on and off the field.

spk_0 Some fantastic players and he has been an absolute credit to the cricket club.

spk_0 And to see the news, what he's going through personally is heartbreaking.

spk_0 But as a character, as a person and what he's delivered, he is as good as any England cricket captain.

spk_0 Because of the players that he's produced, he's been, he's a one off and it's really, really, it's really sad to see him have to leave the club.

spk_0 I had a couple of other items, Tommy, but I don't think I'm relevant now.

spk_0 I think John Windows should be our final word this week.

spk_0 Absolutely, absolutely. And it is a lump in the throat and it's upsetting to see him leave.

spk_0 But I told you what, I spoke to him yesterday. I'd love to get him on.

spk_0 I might try and see if I can get him on next week, but I asked him, do you win a year as he sat back and you know, gone through in 27 years, the players have gone through.

spk_0 And he said, Stephen, because he always calls me Stephen, because we grew up together.

spk_0 The amount of messages I've gotten from people who have still got my number from 15, 20 years ago, who left the game as 18 as 19, sent a new message saying what a great time we had in this.

spk_0 So that and you're the, he said that was that's been overwhelming and that for me, tells you everything people from people that he said to tell that you're not going off to play cricket is a job is an 18 19 year old.

spk_0 It's still sending a message is here. Thanks for your time.

spk_0 You helped me so much when I was a kid growing up.

spk_0 I think that tells you everything about what these Academy directors and the characters they've got somebody to do it for 27 years and produce the place he had Magnificent.

spk_0 Got a lump in my throat now. You've been listening to following on with me Neil Manthorpe along with former England fastballer, Stephen Palmerston.

spk_0 We'll be back at the same time next week to build up to England's Whiteboard series in New Zealand.

spk_0 Every ball live and exclusive here on Talksport 2.

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Cricket Collective - Was Chris Woakes Underrated; Australia's Ashes Auditions & How Can We Fix The West Indies?!

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