Lifestyle
Catching Up With Tony Hathaway
In this bonus episode of 'Catching Up With Tony Hathaway,' host Josh Dean reconnects with Tony to discuss his recent struggles and triumphs, including a hopeful job offer from Boeing that ul...
Catching Up With Tony Hathaway
Lifestyle •
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Interactive Transcript
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Hey there hook listeners, I'm your host Josh Dean and it's hard to believe it's been
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more than three years since I brought you the story of Tony Hathaway and his son Connor.
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Hook is one of those projects that will always stick with me, and the relationship I formed
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with Tony over three plus years continues to this day.
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Tony and I don't talk nearly as often as we used to, but we still stay in touch.
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In late last year he reached out to me with some incredible news.
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It looked like he was about to be hired back by Boeing.
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A hire that would bring his story full circle, and in my opinion anyway, create the kind
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of feel good PR story that Boeing could absolutely use right about now.
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Unfortunately, the job fell through, and it nearly broke Tony.
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Nearly.
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But he hung on as he always seems to do, and I was moved enough by this latest chapter
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to want to share it with you.
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So I asked Tony if he was up for recording a bonus episode of this show.
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He was unsurprisingly happy to do it, and I'm happy to share that conversation with you
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now here.
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This is and will probably continue to be a developing story.
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So for more updates on Tony's life and about other shows I've worked on, please subscribe
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to my company CampSides free newsletter and become a member of our community at joincampside.com.
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And now on to my conversation with Tony Hathaway, recorded this fall.
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Tony had just endured another bout of homelessness, which he told me about.
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But he was fortunately back in a solid situation, staying with a generous friend for a time while
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he got healthy and tried to find work.
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Tony was also still looking after his grandson in namesake, Anthony.
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Most days at the apartment, Connor and his ex were living in together.
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That's where Tony called me from, one day in late October.
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Well the interview here I'm doing from my son's apartment in Linwood, which is actually
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just down the street from where we were living when you guys came out following my release
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from incarceration.
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It's been rough.
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I mean the first four years I was living with my son Connor and my grandson Anthony and
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you know we had an apartment and we struggled but we had a place you know.
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We had a place and we got by and we made it work.
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But as you know I was released right before the COVID shutdowns.
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So it was tough trying to follow through on my plans to start a business or get back to work.
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And you know we struggled financially and eventually near the end of 2023 it just well what
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happened was the landlords raised our rent 25%.
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So our rent went up $500 a month and it really just put us in a position that we couldn't afford
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anymore without me having a job.
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And at the same time I had just applied at Boeing.
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They had a job posting for a Galley engineer which was the same job I had been doing for
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almost 22 years prior to my early departure.
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And so I applied.
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I interviewed in December of 2023 had a great interview and was feeling very confident.
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Man I was I was excited as can be you know I thought shit after four years of sitting
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around and struggling to find a job and believe me I've been trying.
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I applied at many companies and I couldn't even get an interview up until that point with
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one exception and had a good interview with Boeing.
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This for a job Tony had applied for in the fall of 2023.
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It wasn't the first time he had applied for work at his old employer but it was the first time
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Boeing actually called him back and not just for any old engineering job.
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This was to be a Galley systems engineer the exact group he'd worked in before the wheels fell
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off his life. Tony went in for an interview and as he tells it nailed it.
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And then I received a phone call following the holiday break that Boeing takes over over
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Christmas and New Year's from the one of the managers that I had interviewed with and
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I was actually grocery shopping at Fred Meyer when I got the call and she was calling to give me
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a heads up once at Anthony I just wanted to give you a heads up we're going to be extending you
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a formal offer it might be a week or two before before it shows up but I'm sure you've been
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anxious Leo waiting a response from us so she had done that basically as a courtesy and
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you know instead that they were excited to have me join the team and with my 20 plus years of
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experience that they were looking forward to bringing me on board and of course I was doing back flips
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down the bread aisle at Fred Meyer I was so excited. I remember I heard from you.
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Yeah a week later I got the formal offer it was for $115,000 a year which you know that's
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definitely less than I would have been making had I not gotten caught up in this addiction and made
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some bad choices that landed me in prison but hey 115 grand was 115 grand more than I'd been
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making for the previous four years so I immediately accepted the offer and then from there it went
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into the background check phase. I mean we've been in somewhat regular touch but often quite a
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few months go by but I remember you reached out to tell me that you got the job offer because
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you were understandably incredibly excited I think I even remember saying when we were making
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the show that in my mind the best ending of the story is if you go back to Boeing right it comes
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full circle. Well yeah of course and I thought I had this locked in. I'm thinking they definitely
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know about my background we talked about most of it during the interview but did you also I
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remember asking you if you if it came up during your interview didn't you volunteer some of it?
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So what happened during the interview and it was so the interview was about an hour long and it was
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with two managers so towards the end of the interview one of them had raised the point that hey
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there appears to be a gap here in your employment you worked at Boeing up until 2011 and then there's
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this six year gap of course that's when I was incarcerated. He had asked about that night
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start going into the story you know I talked about you know I kind of went back to when I first got
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hired on had a high school and how excited I was to have this opportunity and how quickly I had
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progressed and been promoted from basically a technical designer up to an engineer position
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with no college degree and then I talked about how I had injured my back and then I was prescribed
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oxy cotton by my doctor and then had a couple back surgeries so yeah I talked about how it became a
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problem I absolutely knew that I was addicted and I talked about that and I made some some really bad
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decisions I started getting into that and they cut me off at that point they're like okay hey that's
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enough and I was you know me Josh I'm like I'm an emotional guy so when I talk about some of this
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stuff I struggled to keep my emotions in check so I think they could sense that you know we were getting
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into some pretty deep stuff for me anyways so they cut me off at that point and and that was it
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ended the interview and then I got that phone called a week or so later when I was shopping at
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Fred Meyer and she told me she said we decided the minute we got off the interview that we were
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going to make in offer and I felt like they were testing me out when they had asked me that question
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anyways just to see if I would be honest and forthcoming about everything and of course I wasn't going
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to hide anything I knew they were going to do a criminal background check and I suspected they
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would have already known all these things anyways it seems impossible that they wouldn't have done
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that I mean who in 2020 any time the last 15 years doesn't Google someone that they're thinking
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about hiring but regardless like you were honest with them and yes absolutely you didn't make it
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to the bank robberies in the conversation your assumption was they knew about it probably they know
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right they know yeah absolutely and I have no doubt about it then I go into this background check
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process and this goes on for several months January February and into the beginning of March
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when you told me about it it was almost like oh this is more of a formality that's what I thought
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yeah because one of the first things they did was and actually I had traveled over to Idaho to
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visit my daughter and my grandkids I was over there and I'm getting hit up every day sometimes
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two three times a day asking questions asking for information and one of the things they wanted
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right up front was for me to do the drug test and it has to be done within 48 hours of when they
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requested and so I'm like hey I'm in Idaho visiting my family and they said that's no problem we
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have a place there you can go and sure enough they had a place it was like four blocks from where
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my daughter lived it was literally right down the street so I called and it was like a walk-in
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clinic I went in did the drug test and of course I passed I mean I've been clean for over 10 years now
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so I was not worried about that at all and so you know I'm yeah I'm feeling great I'm like this is
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all they're just asking questions about my business I mean I always had it in the back of my mind
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that this could go south but I was confident I felt like I had this and I told you I told my kids
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I'm telling everybody I got I'm going back Boeing's giving me a second chance and it's for the same
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pretty much the same job I had before and I was yeah I was man I couldn't have been more excited and
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unfortunately that was that was short lived I got that little letter on the 25th of March
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I'll never forget that where they said that the offer has been rescinded and rescinded because they
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have found not discrepancies they just found felonies under here record right correct yeah there were
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no discrepancies had nothing to do with that so apparently I think from what I understand the process
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so you have the managers that did the interview and that said yes we want to bring this guy on board
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and then once that's all done then higher right does the background check and then they submit a
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report to Boeing and if there's anything on there like a red flag like someone let's say
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Rob 30 banks and has all these felony convictions in my case then it gets elevated to like a special
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Boeing security review it's like an independent review that's done by Boeing security so they had sent
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me a thing saying basically I had 48 hours to fill out this questionnaire and explain the circumstances
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and that's when I'd you know you would offer to write me a letter of recommendation and that was
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fantastic Tony's referring here to a letter I wrote on his behalf when I heard about the job
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being rescinded to try and help change Boeing's mind I'll link to that letter in the show notes
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I thought for sure that letter you wrote if that doesn't get me over the finished line there's
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nothing there's nothing I can say but yeah it didn't work out man they they rescinded the offer
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and man I've been fighting ever since I'm still going around with them to understand what happened
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I'd work through the engineering union spia the engineering union asking for their help
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what I was trying to do is get my hands on the policy I know they have a written policy on
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hiring of convicted felons but they don't post it it's not published on their website so I'd
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gone through to the union and I had to keep pressing them for three months and they finally got a
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response from Boeing HR that basically it was like two sentences that said Anthony Hathaway was given
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an opportunity and unfortunately due to his criminal background check the offer was rescinded
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he is eligible to reapply in five years five years and so then a couple weeks ago I filed an ethics
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complaint through the Boeing website and I got a call back like the next day from a gallon HR
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she was super nice and took the time to listen to my story and I explained to her what my frustrations
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were and that I was trying to understand what is Boeing's policy how many years is it is it from
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the time of conviction is it from the time the crime was committed is it from the time you released
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from prison is it five years seven years ten years what is it and so we went back and forth for
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a few days and she finally came back and said she had confirmed that it's ten years from the date
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of conviction or release from prison whichever is later obviously you can't go to prison until you're
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convicted so basically you're telling me it's ten years from my release from prison and I'll tell
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you I just found out yesterday it was in an email response I got where it specifically says my
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new eligibility date is December 23rd 2029 which is exactly ten years from the date I was released
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from incarceration at least for a class A violent felony their policy must be ten years
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and so that begs the question why did you make me an offer in the first place well I was going
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to ask that I think the hiring managers would know that but also it also begs the question of what
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the purpose of prison and rehabilitation is if you get out and then you have to wait another ten
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like what is what happens in the ten years between your release from prison and when your
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eligibility will be hired that changes you as an individual is that like how much time it takes to
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prove that you're not still a violent criminal there has to be some amount of time right that it
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makes sense to me that yeah you're not going to roll out of prison in two weeks later get hired
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on it Boeing they're going to want to see some time where you've been in the community and that you
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proven you're not going to reoffend that obviously you can pass the drug test if addiction was
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something that you had struggled with which was certainly the case for me but yeah I don't know
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a couple few years three years five years but ten years ten years by that time I'm 60 years old
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so I'm frustrated man what pisses me off is that no company is required to hire a convicted
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felon right so if you are a company that does believe in second chances and you do hire convicted
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felons then you should be required to publish your policy up front so that when someone like
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myself goes to apply and I had applied for a probably at least a half a dozen different jobs at
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Boeing all the time not realizing I had zero chance of ever getting hired for any of them so that
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doesn't make sense that's so I'm still I'm not done with this man I'm still I actually this
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morning I wrote a email to a local congresswoman here in Washington state her name is Mary Foss I had
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met her at a job fair that Connor and I went to here in Snohomish County it was specifically set
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up for people with criminal records right and so there were a lot of local companies there and
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she was the guest speaker and I kind of been keeping an eye on her waiting for a chance to
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step in and maybe have a word with her on the side and finally I got a chance to talk to her and I
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I introduced myself and I asked her I said where's Boeing at I said I'm surprised that Boeing's not
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here I mean I know they hire felons it is a local company that gets huge tax subsidies from the state
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of Washington you would think they would have the biggest booth here and they're not there at all
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representing and I was surprised and obviously disappointed at that she gave me a few minutes to
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give her the short version of what I'd gone through and that my offer had been rescinded and that I
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was really frustrated by the whole thing so I wrote her a long email this morning and explained to
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her everything that I have now confirmed that it's 10 years and that you know I'm hoping that she
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would give me an opportunity to meet with her to talk about possibly you know proposing some
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legislation to require companies to disclose this upfront so that people that are coming out of prison
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looking to get their life back on track have a fair shot at getting a job and aren't wasting your time
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I wasted four months on that four months I quit looking for other jobs because I thought I had
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this locked in and then I get fucked over I mean basically is how I feel to be honest with you
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I feel like they really just screwed me over and I ended up homeless I'm not blaming them for that
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but that's the reality this was a thing I'd learned only recently that earlier this year
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things got so bleak for Tony that he'd become homeless he was living in a car again
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but at least this time he wasn't using drugs or committing crimes I was living in a car for nine
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months and part because I just haven't been able to find a job I can't pay rent I can't
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do anything really without having any source income and I shares hell don't want to go back to
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what I was doing before it's not gonna happen he means by the way robbing bags if that's not clear
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I'm never gonna do that again I promise my kids I would never make those decisions and end up
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back in prison so we're not doing that well can you talk a little bit about how hard it is
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to find work as a felon as someone who's got a fairly extensive criminal record is it just that
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nobody calls you back you don't get the interview like what's the process what's it like out there
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it's just it's hell it's terrible I mean for me I can only speak for myself
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and I can tell you Josh I have applied for I don't know at least a couple dozen jobs and I have
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all of them I've only gotten two callbacks okay one was from Boeing and we just talked about how that
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went and the other one this is how desperate I was I applied for a job to be a night stalker at the
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local Fred Meyer grocery store right stocking shelves at night when the stores close no customers
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just stocking shelves and I did get a callback on that and I got an interview and then the next day
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I get a phone call saying they've decided to pass on me because I was overqualified for the job
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I'm thinking I'm overqualified to put cans of soup on a flippin shelf pretty much everybody's
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overqualified to do that I would think and it was basically like a minimum wage level job for
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this area but I would have taken it because I need to do something to help out my son and my daughter
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have been helping they're not making a ton of money but they've done what they can to help me out
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and keep me afloat and it's yeah it's been it's just been terrible and then the worst of it is like
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after the Boeing think falls through and you can't afford the place anymore and Connor moves in
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with his son and his ex so they find a place and you just have nowhere to go
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my primary concern when I came to the realization that we can't stay in that apartment after four
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years you know it just we can't afford it anymore they raised the rent $500 a month that would
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that was like our gas money man literally gas money and food and so if we pay that for rent we
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now can't afford he can't even get gas to drive to work anymore just there was no way we couldn't
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make it work so what happened initially was Connor and Anthony my grandson were able to move in with
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his mom and her husband they obviously opened their door and said they could come and stay there
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until they figure something else out and at that point I was homeless I was living in the car
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and then eventually Hannah who was my grandson's mother and Connor finally got the parenting plan done
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you might remember and hooked that this was a major issue for Connor sorting out care and custody
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of Anthony with his ex who he was then not on good terms with and so they've got past that and
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she was in a similar situation where she had her own apartment and was having Anthony every other week
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and you know it was tough for her to get by because rent is so damn expensive around here so
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it just came down to why don't we just get a place together we can make it work and we'll just
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co-parent and they're not in a relationship together they're just simply co-parenting and it's
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man it's I'm so proud of them it's amazing how well they're doing and I'm here every day you know I
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come and take care of Anthony in the morning and see him off to school because they're both at work
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and I spend a lot of time around here it's a small place though if they had a bigger place I
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could probably stay here but it's just it's not a big place but for them it's working and yeah
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so I yeah man I was living in a car for nine months it was fucking awful sleeping in the driver's seat
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what were you doing not really because I can't sleep I can't really sleep very good you know I can
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take little naps and I definitely at night time can't sleep because you're man it's Josh things
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have gotten I know it's been a while since you've been out here but the crime around here is
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insane there's no way I could sleep at night because I'm too worried someone's gonna roll up on me
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and try to car jack me or something you know so what are you doing I'm just listening to podcast
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watching shows and just nothing doing nothing man sitting in the freaking car it was terrible
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I'd every now and then Connor would get paid and then I could get a motel room for a night so I
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could shower and actually lay in a bed and get some sleep but all the while I started developing
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all kinds of health problems from my living situation my legs were swelling really bad like my
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lower legs and my ankles and my feet from sitting all the time right because I could never lay down
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the the car is so small even if I wanted to lay out it's not even possible to get your feet up
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that's where when we went down to Twin Falls Idaho to visit my daughter and my grandkids and
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her family during the 4th of July break and I ended up in the emergency room as soon as I got
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there just from the travel the flight down there my feet were so swollen I could barely even
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keep my shoes on and I ended up in the ER and they ended up keeping me overnight because I
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developed a blood clot in my leg I was terrified I didn't know if I was going to make it out of
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their alive I don't think the doctors thought I was going to get out of there I mean I was in
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bad shape so is that that's better now yeah actually yesterday I just went in and had a
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ultrasound done on both of my legs as a follow-up and they said that the blood clot is gone so my
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body is basically absorbed which is a good thing and I'm on medication blood thinners and stuff to
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help mitigate that and I've been in other things man my back is just a mess way worse than it was
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I fucked my knee up and I had actually tomorrow I go in for an MRI a second MRI on my knee because I've
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been having problems with my knee something with my MCL and I have a stress fracture in my left knee
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so it's just a lot of medical stuff man and I think a lot of it can be attributed to me to spend
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a nine months in a car but you're not you're off state-off opioid throw that pain you're not
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oh yeah 100% 10 years but over 10 years yeah none nothing I don't take no pain medicine
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I be profan no what so you're just in pain all the time pretty much yeah
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but you know I've I mean I've developed a pretty high tolerance for pain my back has always been
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messed up since I've had those two surgeries and I just I don't take pain medicine I can't do it
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because I just know it's gonna it'll be a problem for me I know that for sure speaking of that
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I'm sure people are wondering how's Connor doing? Connor's doing great he's doing amazing he's working hard
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working full-time plus over time pretty much every week and the living situation is he's in
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is good it's all positive I'm happy like I said to see that him and Hannah are getting along and
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being able to co-parent like they should be which is great I think ultimately I'm hoping we can
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all get back together because I want to live with them maybe not forever but at least for the time
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being it was nice just having all of us together and even if Hannah was involved we would just have
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to get a bigger place you know maybe once I get back to work and I can I can contribute financially
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we could all get a place and ultimately if it's up to me I want to move to Idaho I'd love for us
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all to be able to get over to Idaho you can't work for Boeing in Idaho I can't work for Boeing anyways
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for another five years apparently so I mean I don't know that feels like another thing that could
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be changed 10 years feels excessive like I think that's another thing a politician could potentially
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help with you're right it doesn't make any sense to just give people the benefit of the
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doubt and hire them right away out of prison and maybe even a year is too soon but five years
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feels like Plenty yeah I think so I want to talk to an attorney as well because I just I feel like
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there's got to be some some about this just doesn't feel right to me what I went through and the
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emotional distress I guess or whatever that I've gone through with this is I didn't deal with this
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good Josh I did not take this well yeah I mean I'm sure well I knew I'm happy you're when you got
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the offer and then and then I found out when I fell through but then we didn't I didn't hear much
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like I just found out like a month ago about the homelessness I didn't know yeah I keep it to myself
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but it was man I was struggling bad and it uh it just doesn't make sense I just can't get my arms
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around it it's like why would you make me a you sent me a letter you made me an offer you knew
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about my criminal history and then when it got to the security review thing this is the other
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thing that just really surprises me that at no point through the process was I given an opportunity
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to go in and sit down with these people that are making these decisions face to face everything's
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done over emails and phone calls and you know what I mean I felt like had I been given a chance to
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go sit down sit at the table with the people that are making this decision that I would at least
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have a chance to sell myself you know and show them look I'm just a regular guy I've already worked
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here for 20 plus years you can pull my employment records I always every single year was rated
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at the top I did well I did really good and so I just don't you can't just judge me on
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some bad decisions I made over one year versus 20 plus years of having an outstanding work history
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but I don't control these things it is what it is I guess in some sense but I'm still not giving up
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I'm gonna keep fighting this because I feel like if nothing else if I could be part of getting
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some legislation passed that requires companies to disclose this upfront I think it would it help a
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lot of people coming out behind me because it's it is tough to get a job especially for someone
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my age like Conor's a lot younger when he got out of prison he was still in his 20s and he could go
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do construction work and that I can't do that kind of stuff anymore I'm not fit for it I just with
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my back problems and I don't have the strength or the endurance that I used to to do that kind of
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physical labor so it really limits what my options are that's what most guys get coming out of prison
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they're gonna go find a job frame in houses or roof and or plumbing or whatever you know that type of
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because those companies will hire felons you know but yeah not for me I just I can't do it
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well you should in theory do the thing that you're qualified to do I mean you have 20 years of
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experience doing something highly specialized so you would think provided an employer could be
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reasonably confident that you aren't gonna relapse or aren't gonna commit crimes then what they
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should be doing is taking advantage of the years of training that you already had right whether
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that's Boeing or another company yeah right in engineering right it's just sort of like it's 20 years
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of course yeah I mean I feel like I have a lot to add and even Boeing obviously they have a lot of
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suppliers that are in this area and I've applied it a couple of no response I feel like what happens
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is everybody is part of their vetting process one of the first things they're gonna do is Google
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my name and if you Google my name the first thing that pops up is a picture of a dude with a mask on
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rob in a bank not the best first impression that is not a good first impression and I don't know
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how to fix that I don't think I can fix it's gonna be there forever and if I can't get past that
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and even get to an interview then I'm left to basically Josh I think this is what I'm gonna do
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is I'm gonna start my own business that's what I have to do because then I'm in control of it
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and I've done it before obviously with the coffee business if you didn't listen to the
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podcast or have forgotten Tony started a very successful drive up coffee key ask during this time
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at Boeing I had that for 20 years plus so it's just a matter I got to come up with the month I
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can't start a business from nothing so I'm hoping something comes through here in the near future
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so I got a little something to work with and I can start a small business and maybe it's something
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Connor and I do together I mean I don't know how to fix the first impression part like if someone's
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only going to go as deep as one Google search but in your case I guess it's unreasonable to
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expect someone to listen to a nine part podcast but they could read the story or it's not like you've
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hidden from any of it and in fact quite the opposite of pretty publicly well not pretty publicly
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extremely publicly owned it and apologized for the right parts like hurting people but not
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apologized for the behavior necessarily just like hey it happened and I wish it hadn't and I certainly
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I can't change it yeah I just what I can show is that I've been clean for over 10 years and I can
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show that I've been out of prison for over five years and I haven't had as much as a park and
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ticket I feel like I've proven myself I was homeless for nine months I didn't rob any banks
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don't think don't think it didn't cross my mind because it did but you know what I didn't do it
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and I never even came close but there were times when I was struggling so hard I was like
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honestly Josh I reached this point where I felt like
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man I would rather be in prison than live in like I'm living right now
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that's how bad shit was getting for me it I thought you know at least in prison I can shower every day
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I got a place to sleep as uncomfortable as it might be but you know the one thing I don't get
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is I don't get to see my kids and I don't get to see my grandkids and so for me that was that
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that was it I just I couldn't take the chance and I don't want to live that way anyways I don't
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want to be committing crimes I want to work that's what I've done for 99% of my life I just want to
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work like everybody else does and get a paycheck and be able to take care of my family well yeah if
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you can get through what you've gotten through in the past year let alone the three years before
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that without relapsing or committing a crime it's pretty good evidence that it's behind me
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yeah for sure so I'll keep pressing forward I'm on optimist and it's difficult
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as things have been I really feel like things are gonna turn around I'm gonna get that break I don't
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know what it's gonna be but I feel like I just keep as long as I keep making the right decisions
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eventually the right opportunity is gonna come along and when it does I will absolutely be
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seizing it I guess you gotta get healthy first like what's your plan while you work the
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Boeing angle are you gonna try and get healthy and look for a new job what's the idea right now I'm
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focused on my health I do have a place to live right now thank god finally a nice place at that
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I've been lucky bit a good friend of mine stepped up and is helping me out yeah I'm gonna focus
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on my health all right man well we'll we'll check in again soon I'm glad you have a bed a shower
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again how long can you stay in your current situation through the winter at least she said I'm
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welcome to stay there at least until basically she wants to see me get back on my feet so I feel
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like it'll be enough you know if I can get through the end of the year the other thing when you're
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living in a car and struggling like that man it's hard to make any progress at all they're
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plan anything or whatnot I'm in a better place now better situation so I can
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get focused on the things I need to be getting done and things will work out we're gonna get there
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I believe it not giving up so that attitude's got a new long way yeah it's as tough as it can be
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at times I'm lucky man I got my kids are just awesome and I have a good support system so a lot of
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people rooting for me and helping me stay positive about things and I'm grateful for that
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book does an Apple original podcast produced by Campside Media thanks to Tony Hathaway for
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continuing to be the open book he's always been with me and the world for more on Tony's story
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and further updates please become a free member of my company campsites community at joincampside.com
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special thanks to ewin light from you in for the production and mix on this bonus episode
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and to apple tv plus for letting me share it here in the hope feed I'm Josh Dean thanks for listening