Lifestyle
Carla Hall on celebrating Juneteenth!
In this episode of Food People, host Jamilah Robinson sits down with chef Carla Hall to explore the significance of Juneteenth and how food plays a vital role in celebrating this important holiday. Th...
Carla Hall on celebrating Juneteenth!
Lifestyle •
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Speaker A
Foreign.
Speaker B
I'm Jamilah Robinson, editor in chief of Bon Appetit and Epicurious. And this is Food People.
Speaker A
On Food People, we talk about how.
Speaker B
Food and drink shape our society. And this week, we're celebrating Juneteenth with chef Carla Hall. Now, you know Carla hall from cooking on TV shows like the Chew and Top Chef, but in this conversation, we get a chance to go deep on how she celebrates Juneteenth with her friends and family. Juneteenth marks the emancipation of enslaved people in the US this is a conversation originally prepared for our sister podcast dinner SOS but it's so good, we're bringing.
Speaker A
It over to Food People. So this week on Food People, we're.
Speaker B
Talking about Juneteenth and how food connects communities with the lovely Carla Hall. Enjoy the conversation.
Speaker A
Welcome to the studio, Carla.
Speaker C
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm already loving the topic of this conversation.
Speaker A
Well, you know, you and I both love to throw a party. We love celebrations. We love celebration food. How did you start celebrating Juneteenth?
Speaker C
You know, it's interesting. I don't know if I celebrated it as much as, like, Easter growing up or 4th of July or some of these other holidays. However, as somebody who lived with someone from Texas and always hearing about it, we started living together 20 years ago. And so I felt like I knew the date, but it wasn't necessarily my holiday. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker A
I started celebrating Juneteenth. I was an intern in Minnesota. I knew the date, but I didn't know that it was called Juneteenth. But I knew a lot about the history of what happened in Galveston, Texas, and that this was basically the last stop on emancipation. But it took me going to Minnesota and seeing people who were from Texas having a big Juneteenth party. It's like, oh, a party for emancipation. Oh, I very into that. And it changed how I thought about emancipation by going to this party in Minnesota. What was it like for you to hear about Juneteenth from somebody from Texas?
Speaker C
Well, what I'm loving about what you're saying is you were with someone from Texas who was in Minnesota. I was with someone from Texas who was in D.C. so really, it was these people from Texas who exported the idea of celebrating this holiday. So when I think about how food moves, how culture moves, it takes someone from the place, goes out, like, tentacles all over the country. But it took somebody from Texas. My friend Greta, who is from Houston, Texas, she would always go back for Juneteenth because the celebrations were big, and, you know, it was about family and bringing people together and more like a statewide family reunion.
Speaker A
Oh, I love that.
Speaker C
Because I think when you think about Juneteenth, we are celebrating, but when it happened, people were looking for their family members.
Speaker A
Absolutely.
Speaker C
You know, so in order to celebrate is bringing people back. So I think in other countries, I guess you can look at Haiti, you can look at Brazil, you can look at the afro Caribbean, Zimbabwe, like all of these places who have found their independence and especially who have found their independence more recently and what that looks like as we think globally and we think about some of these celebrations. So I think it is about people coming together. Yes, there's a parade. It's generally in our community. Church is involved being grateful and thankful. So starting with praising being here and making it through the struggle, I think, yes, it's all about food, of course, but what is the mental celebration that should and does happen?
Speaker A
A lot of thought around Juneteenth is changing. I remember a few years ago, there were a few people who said in Texas, who were saying, I don't know if I feel comfortable with juneteenth becoming a national holiday and becoming this thing that everyone was going to celebrate. And I remember hearing some people say that, oh, this feels like such a Texas holiday. What do you think about the expansion of Juneteenth becoming a national holiday?
Speaker C
I mean, I think Texans have been celebrating it in a microcosm for so long that they feel like it is theirs, and they don't want to see it expand. But the idea has to expand if we as a people are gonna move it forward, it's important for all black people to know it. And going outside of that, all people in our country to know it. Just as an intention of how we live in this country and how we want other people to be and treat people who feel like they're not liberated. So I think it's absolutely necessary that it's national.
Speaker A
Yeah, I think it's essential as well. Let's dig into the food a little bit. Well, one of the things that I had been thinking a lot about with Juneteenth, especially as a leader in food media, is how do we move past just the food? For a lot of people, Juneteenth is a new holiday. And so we have new books about juneteenth. There are a lot of stories about, here's what's on your juneteenth menu. Here's the history of our red drinks. Here's why we are looking at watermelon, here's why we are eating certain kinds of food. But even with the food, I wanted to be sure that we were thinking about what you just said, the gratitude, the liberation, why we're eating these foods and how do we move past just the menu. But to start to expand the reverence for the holiday and thinking about what are these cultural markers of gratitude and history that we can also incorporate with the food?
Speaker C
Well, I think food is a starting place. So why watermelon? Right. And celebrating. This was the first time that you had the commerce of formerly enslaved people growing watermelons to basically make their own money. So that is a point and a reason to celebrate. So what can you do? What commerce? How can you build something of yours that will take you to the next level? Also, I think we need to reclaim the watermelon because there has been something, because when you had all of these people making money and understanding that independence and their emancipation and their liberation, and then you have another group who is looking at these people make something of themselves and creating these tropes that really sort of denigrated. And so people still hold that. They hold that before they hold the truth of why watermelon was important.
Speaker A
Absolutely.
Speaker C
So I think it's really digging into that and letting go of something that was put upon you and reclaiming the thing that was.
Speaker A
Absolutely. The truth of that is that that was a financial liberation. And I think it's important to, as we think about Juneteenth, why we eat certain foods, of being able to incorporate that history onto those plates. That leads me to a big question about who gets to go to Juneteenth. A few years ago now, I throw a pretty big Juneteenth. Of course, she I love a party.
Speaker C
Because you love a party and I love to go to your party.
Speaker A
I love a party and I invite everybody I know. And I have friends, of course, from all kinds of backgrounds and a couple of my friends who are not black, some of my white friends, some of my Asian friends were so happy to be invited to Juneteenth because they weren't sure if they could go. So how do you think non black people should celebrate or commemorate Juneteenth?
Speaker C
Well, I think if any group isn't free, no one is free. So it's just like I've been to a seder and I'm not Jewish. So I think by people being curious about a holiday and understanding and learning it, that's why the fact that it's a national holiday opens the door for everyone. To understand why it is important. It's also important for us to understand as a country why and how this happened.
Speaker A
Yes.
Speaker C
You know, so I think it is reflecting. Well, one, it's like being invited to the cookout. So are you going to be invited to the cookout at somebody of one of your black friends homes? Do you know black people? I think you can start there.
Speaker A
That's right.
Speaker C
Do you know black people? Would you be invited to their home? Because I think this is when you can reflect. Like, oh, my gosh, there's not a single person who would invite me to their house. Okay, we'll start there. Get to know some other people. And that goes both ways.
Speaker A
Absolutely.
Speaker C
So if you're black and you have a party, what other people can you pull in to understand what your history is and why you're celebrating?
Speaker A
And so, as we are reclaiming these holidays and opening up our relationships and our humanity, I think it ends up becoming even more important for people to explore that history and culture and not be afraid to have a conversation about why we should be celebrating Emancipation Day. Emancipation is for everyone. But now that we have Juneteenth, it allows us to really think about the pillars and our values of society.
Speaker C
Oh, 100%. And so knowing that I was gonna have this conversation with you, I was just thinking about Juneteenth, just period. And I was asking friends, did you celebrate Juneteenth? Well, no. When did you start celebrating? And, you know, I think that it was even. A lot of black people don't know about Juneteenth outside of Texas. You know, they may not know, but I thought about the Emancipation Day of. In Washington, D.C. where I live. So April 16, 1862, eight months before the Emancipation Proclamation. And then you have Juneteenth. So you're thinking, we don't celebrate the Emancipation Proclamation because everyone wasn't free.
Speaker A
Exactly.
Speaker C
And then we go to Juneteenth, like the significance of that day, which I think if it's not all, it's no one.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker C
You know, I've heard also some people say that it should be celebrated from Juneteenth to July 4th, because you're celebrating this whole period of independence.
Speaker A
Oh, I would enjoy that.
Speaker C
Right. So it's a period. So instead of like Black History Month, it's like your independence period.
Speaker A
That I think is so interesting. And sometimes I think that I would love for Juneteenth to be called something like Jubilee. And so. And I think about Tony Tipton Martin's book Jubilee, that is all about celebrations and Celebration food. And I have goosebumps right now, because to look at an entire period from Juneteenth to July 4th as a Jubilee period, this period of celebration, jubilee, excitement, parades, sharing, inviting. You invite me to your home, you throw a party, you eat some delicious food, you share, you learn together. Food is culture, food is humanity. If we can continue to connect the people to the culture, to those experiences, when we think about a Passover Seder, these are liberation foods that people are eating. And so these liberation foods that we eat during Juneteenth, that is helping to reconnect that culture and that humanity. And I think it brings us closer, oh, 100%.
Speaker C
And I think as a culture, if we can remember and understand why this date is important, we heal, we learn to heal, and we're bringing family back together. So the date you think about, everyone was looking for their family members. So where are your family members? Where is your chosen family? Because I think as a group of people, we are connectors. We are all about the relationship. That is why we're in this body. We bring the relationships, we bring the connections. We. It's like the whole thing inviting to the cookout is a feel. It's a thing. It's not literally being invited to the cookout, but it's being invited. Where I see you, I see you.
Speaker A
It is being invited.
Speaker C
Yes.
Speaker A
And if you're invited, if you're invited, you're at the cookout.
Speaker C
Yes.
Speaker A
What are you cooking at Juneteenth now? Do you cook all of the traditional. And I'm doing air quotes for everybody who's listening. The traditional foods. But what do you cook now?
Speaker C
I don't do those parties. I get invited to your party. I know what. I want to be invited to the party. But let's say if I am doing a cookout, I am pretty traditional. I want to have the barbecue and the red sauce with little tanginess. Because being from Tennessee, I was talking to my friend Greta from Texas, and she said, they always make ice cream. And I said, that makes sense. I would want to make ice cream. Because you think about the father of ice cream, Augustus Jackson. So bringing all of these things having significance, I would do something with watermelon in several different ways, because, again, having the privilege of building a business and showing my prosperity, I am going to have watermelon. Right. I am going to have some kind of a fried chicken. Because the significance of being able to have the oil and the yardbird and to be able to show how far I've come just with my Own like the hot chicken from where I'm from in Nashville, I am going to have that. And then of course, all of the other vegetables and things like that. Those are the things that I want to have. I want to show also a good potato salad, you know, with sweet potatoes and Yukon gold potatoes. But all of these things showing, not only the potato salad, because this is what we would have with fried chicken and barbecue, but because I want to show how we have changed in terms of soul food every day and celebration. So I'm going to throw some everyday dishes for the celebration because I also want to teach people our food is more than just this.
Speaker A
Absolutely. I think that's so true. Of course, I grew up in Detroit, and so my relationship with emancipation and freedom is very different from people who grew up in the south or grew up with family who are coming from the South. So my dishes are a little different.
Speaker C
So tell me, tell me what yours are.
Speaker A
I cook whatever I want. Okay.
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker C
You don't feel like you're boxed?
Speaker A
In My last Juneteenth party, I did a Baltimore crab boil. I got a sea of Baltimore crab with the old bay seasonings. But I also incorporated things that I just like. I made a wheat waffle and I also made some salads. I did make ice cream. Ice cream is something I think is very, very important to black culture. And I think ice cream is one of those dishes that I think is important not only for celebration. And of course it's delicious. But I think that's an evolution of the ways that I want to bring people together and wanting to have. You know, my red drink is one of my favorite recipes, which is a hibiscus and vanilla and agua fresca, which you can find@epicurious.com it's one of my favorite non alcoholics. But wanting to have things that are delicious that I just want to share. But it's more important for me to be able to express the reason for the holiday and bring people together in this period of curiosity, exploration and reverence for this very American holiday, this very important moment in our culture. How do you see the day evolving? How do you want to see this day evolve?
Speaker C
I think the first thing, and we touched on it, I want the day to be a period because it's a national holiday. It will become commercial. But right now we get to dictate what that commercialization looks like. And I'm hoping that it is more about family time, commerce, independent thinking and authenticity.
Speaker A
Oh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Well, I'm hoping for the same. I'm hoping that people will, if they don't get invited to my Juneteenth cookout, they will start a cookout of their own and invite their friends for their own liberation with their own emancipation and go through this period. I'm hoping that we will have a long period. I will be the first one to throw a party. So exciting to have you here with us. Carla Hall, TV host of Chasing Flavor, author, chef, and my dear friend. Thank you for being here.
Speaker C
Thank you so much.
Speaker A
Happy Juneteenth, everybody.
Speaker C
Happy Juneteenth.
Speaker B
You can find the Juneteenth recipe mentioned on today's episode on the Epicurious app, brought to you by Conde Nast. Just search Epicurious in the App Store and download today. If you enjoyed this episode, please give.
Speaker A
Us a rating and review on your.
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Podcast app of choice and hit that follow button so you never miss an episode.
Speaker A
Thanks for listening to food people.
Speaker B
I'm your host, Jameela Robinson. Our producer is Emily Elias. Our associate producer is Abby Leaf. We had production help from Peyton Hayes. Jake Loomis is our studio engineer and also mixed this episode. Jordan Bell is our executive producer. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast head of Global Audio. We'll be back soon with more food people. See you then.
Speaker D
Hi, this is David Remnick, editor of the New Yorker. This fall, join us in celebrating the 100th anniversary of the New Yorker at the New Yorker Festival, returning October 24 through 26. We'll be joined by Salman Rushdie, Sarah Jessica Parker, George Saunders, Zadie Smith, Rasheed Johnson, Keanu Reeves and many others. Tickets are on sale now and we'll be announcing more events soon. You can learn more@newyorker.com festival. That's the newyorker.com festival.
Speaker A
From PRX.