Bilbo Shaggins

Interactive Transcript

Speaker A You are listening to the Adult Empire Podcast with your host, Nicole Chappelle and their special guest, Bilbo Shaggins. British star Bilbo Shaggins has undertaken a life journey as epic as the one experienced by the JRR Tolkien character who inspired his name. He joins the Adult Empire Podcast to discuss addiction, his entry into the porn industry, bdsm, content creation, the gender pay gap, memorable fan interactions, and more. Be sure to check out the Adult Empire Clips database. Our massive content catalog includes over 1 million uncut scenes and clips from all the top studios, genres and stars. Visit adultempire.com clips to browse today. Remember to subscribe and rate wherever you listen to podcasts. And now your host, Nicole.

Speaker B So, Bilbo, thank you so, so much for joining us today. I'm super excited to talk with you because when we were sitting down to do the written interview, I had the privilege of researching and I was just in awe by. First of all, I found your YouTube channel. Yes. So I got captivated in all of that, like just traveling and everything. That's something that I want to do more as I get older. So I was just completely stuck with that. But also your X account and then some of the movies and your independent content. But one thing that stood out to me was your positivity. I absolutely, absolutely love that. And I don't think our industry gets enough credit for all of the positive and, like you said, emotionally mature people that are in it. So I was like, we have to get him on for a podcast if he's able, because I feel like, like people don't come to our site to really read. You know what I mean? It's awesome when they do. But I know that this podcast will do great just because of your story and everything like that. So let's start at the beginning. You talked about growing up in Cornwall. Am I pronouncing.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B Yes. And the juxtaposition there between, like, the beautiful, beautiful scenery and the advent that you get to go on, but, like the poverty and. And you said lawlessness there. Tell me a little bit more about that juxtaposition and how that's shaped you.

Speaker C So. So Cornwall, for anyone doesn't know, Cornwall, is the poorest county in all of Europe. It's. It's the very bottom of England. It's the very bottom little counties. It's middle of nowhere. And with that comes. Comes two things. A, it comes the most spectacular landscapes, amazing beaches, beautiful valleys. It's just the most spectacular, spectacular landscapes to be in the Downside of it, on the other hand, is it's incred. And because it's got a lot of beaches and ports, it's also one of the biggest drug imports in the uk. So you have a lot of drugs coming through Cornwall to reach the rest of the country. And obviously with that comes quite a lot of. Quite a lot of kind of rough people and, and a lot of easy, easy influences to fall prey to, especially when you're. You're kind of young and there isn't anything else to do except for being out in nature. And don't get me wrong, being out in nature is fantastic. It's. It's a massive part of my identity as an adult and it certainly was growing up as well. But I think once you reach the teenage years and you've got a choice between going to the beach every day or doing other stuff, you tend to. You tend to get caught with the other stuff. And unfortunately, I was somebody who felt quite heavily victim to that lifestyle for much of my. My teenage and kind of young adult years. But it was at the same time, it's. It's an interesting one because as much as there is this really dark underbelly to it is still the most spectacular place. And like, going back there brings back all kinds of memories, both positive and negative.

Speaker B Right. I can imagine. And so you, you said, like, I know that you had to overcome addiction, so it started young.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah, so I, I. Oh, God, yeah. I think I was probably started first year or second year of college. So, yeah, probably like 16, 17 when. When stuff started. Yeah, about 17 when I started kind of getting really heavily into that kind of stuff. And with. With Cornwall being what it's like. It was, it was. You get addicted to the lifestyle as much you do substances because there is no one. Is anybody down there? Everyone is. It was. It all seems so small scale. And so I think once you get into that kind of lifestyles, I quite quickly started selling drugs as a teenager and you feel like you have an identity. It gives you. It gives you an identity to latch onto in a place that is otherwise quite deprived of any individuality in that sense. So, yeah, I got involved with all of it quite young and kind of just spiraled very quickly. I know it's quite fast. I have a very addictive personality, which has upsides and downsides, but.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C Yeah, so, yes, fell into it quite, quite early on. I had a couple of years of being pretty. Yeah. Not particularly nice person and definitely, definitely very engrossed in that lifestyle and everything that entails and then. Yeah, got clean just before my 19th I got clean and then relapsed and then got clean finally on the 5th of November, 2016.

Speaker B Nice. Congratulations.

Speaker C Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker B Like almost 10 years.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's wild. It's crazy how fast it comes by.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker C Yeah. We've been nine years in November and it's, it's nuts. Yeah. It blows my mind how, how long it's been and how much has changed in that time.

Speaker B Do you do anything to celebrate your. That anniversary?

Speaker C Kind of. Kind of? It depends. So when I first got clean, every, every year around that time, I would, my insomnia would get really bad. And I'm not somebody who, who really has any kind of. Well, there's probably a few, but I don't have that many long term effects of, of those years. But around that time, for whatever reason, I think my body just must remember because the relapse was quite a traumatic experience. I end up crashing my car is a whole, whole other story, but man. Yeah, yeah. But the. So around about that time of year I usually, my sleep pattern gets a bit broken and I'm usually just a little bit, a little bit emotionally, emotionally tender I'd say. And so usually I'll just try to surround myself with, with good people. But it's ended up being, I think three years running, I've ended up being booked for like a really big scene or a really big thing on, on the day of the anniversary, which has been quite nice. It's meant I'm just kind of working for it.

Speaker B Yeah, that's cool. What sparked you, you stopping? Like what, what was that, that, that bottom? I guess.

Speaker C So initially it was. I got back from a festival in the summer of 2016 and I was, I realized I had a whole load of, of kind of mental issues that I was aware of previously. I was, I was hearing stuff, I was hallucinating and it was all stuff that was like came out of nowhere. And I, I think getting back from that festival I had a kind of moment of clarity where I looked in the mirror and I was like, I've not seen myself sober in two years. I've. I've gotten up and I've, I've taken pills or sniff. Sniff stuff or whatever it was every morning for two years before I've even got out of bed. It's like it was. The morning cup of coffee was replaced with, with a smorgasbord of substances. And so I kind of had this moment of going, oh well, I'LL go, I'll go a day or try. I'll try a day and just see, see what it feels like. And very quickly realized that I had some like pretty hefty damage. Yeah. So I had a couple, couple weeks of just like the most horrific withdrawal symptoms of my life. And thank God it only lasted a couple of weeks, but it was just, it was hell. And I think once I, I'd kind of got to the end of those, those, those initial two weeks. There's a couple points in those two weeks where I was like, if this is my life now, I'm ending it. Like I can't live like this. It was, it was impossible. Like the hallucinations and the auditory hallucinations, like I was hear helicopters all around me and stuff. And I remember being at a beach, dropping some friends off to a beach party at like 8pm it's gorgeous, sun out, middle of summer, like 25 degrees, 30 degrees, which in the UK is hot. And I remember dropping my friends off and just walking up the sand dune back to my car in the middle of the sun and ending up in the fetal position, just hearing these, these helicopters all around me and just like shaking uncontrollably, having this full blown like panic attack and like that. That kind of was a wake up call for me to go, well, okay, this is really messed me up. I need to, I should probably stick with, with being clean.

Speaker B Yeah. Which I did.

Speaker C I managed to go cold turkey for about two months before the relapse. And then obviously the relapse was resulted me having a pretty, pretty nasty car crash. And, and yeah, after that I was like, it's, it's. I'm not gonna get another chance basically.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C That was my, my wake up calls go, look, you try getting clean. You slipped up once, which is fine, Slipping up is always fine. But, but I slipped up and it almost cost me everything. And so that for me was the kind of, the, the nail in the coffin of I even need to commit to sor. Need to accept the fact that it's not going to be a very long life.

Speaker B And that's a, that's a hard realization truth to come to like at 19, 20 years old. But thank God that you did.

Speaker C Yeah, I'm so glad that I did because it's again, like life turned around so fast. I got back into education within, well within like a month I was back into education. I got myself out of Cornwall, went to uni, got obviously got into the adult industry. And it's like life, it completely skyrocketed at such. Such a kind of profound speed at that point, and I've just never looked back. Yeah, it's been fantastic.

Speaker B Nice. And I love your story of how you got into the industry because it's something that we hear so often. It's like, well, I was going through a breakup and yours is crazy because I can't believe that they texted you, man.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah. Literally it's like two year for your relationship. And she'd gone off to uni as well, a different university. And I've got gone this night out. It's my first time seeing a cousin of mine in like a decade. So we went for a little, little night out and I literally get through the doors of the venue. We had a bit of a free drink beforehand, get through the doors of the venue, and I get a text breaking up with me, and I was like, oh, oh, shit. I don't want to be in a club right now.

Speaker B Yeah, that's the last place you want to be. Like, I don't feel like having fun anymore. It's not a happy time.

Speaker C Yeah. And it came completely out of nowhere. So I literally, I left the venue and it was about. I think it was about a five or six mile walk back to my house, and I didn't really know the way at all. My. My phone, like, 5%. And I was like, I'm just gonna pick a direction and I'm just gonna walk and hopefully I find something that I recognize and I can follow that path back to where I live. And on that walk, I was just kind of reflecting and I was thinking, like, well, all of my. All of my. My sexually active life, the people that I've played with, the people I've dated, have kind of. They've always been very complimentary of. To put it politely. And so I kind of thought, well, if there's ever a chance, if there's ever a time just to kind of go, maybe I can make a career out of this. It's now I've got no responsibility, I've got no ties. But it. Let's send the applications and see what happens.

Speaker B Right. And you said within 24 hours you got a. You got an audition.

Speaker C Yeah. Yeah. Blew my mind because, like, again, I was. I was a nobody. I had like 700 followers on Instagram. I had no history of modeling. I. Yeah, nothing. I know. No real social media presence, no experience in the industry whatsoever. Like, for all intents and purposes, they should have not taken my application seriously at all. Like, they should have taken one look at and gone. I was like, well, not 20 years old maybe. I don't know. I was young. But I was just like, yeah, for whatever reason, they obviously saw something. I went up and auditions and yeah, rest is history.

Speaker B Now. It takes much more than like big dick energy and a good stroke game to be a porn star. So I'm curious, what did people see or say? Like, like, is it like. I know that, okay, because you definitely have the big dick energy, no doubt about that. But like, was it the look? Was it the muscles, the tats, like the personality? What was it that people were like, you need to do this on camera?

Speaker C So I had a bit of a. I had a weird ethos with, with, with work. When I first got into it, I think prior to, prior to getting into the industry, it might have just been the confidence and the experience. I was an incredibly promiscuous teenager. Like, before I'd even got to uni, I'd slept with like 200 people or something stupid like that. And so, like, by the time I got to got into doing, doing actual porn, I think my, my ethos was. Was so count contrary to the conventional because again, I, I had no idea how the industry worked. I didn't realize you were supposed to angle positions. I didn't realize I didn't know anything. And so my headspace going into it was the same as I personal life, which is, I'm just going to give this person or these people the best possible experience. I'm going to blow their mind because I feel like that's going to transfer better to camera, right? So. And obviously when I first started doing it, the producers hated me. Like the amount of times I got screamed at by, by people on set for like not turning out to the camera or not all the little things that all little tropes. As a seasoned performer, I'm like, well, obviously you need to do that stuff. But at the time I was like, it. I'm just gonna blow their mind. And that will look good. And so I, I did. I did that for the first couple of months and got ridiculed for it constantly. And then the video, I guess, and suddenly I was the producer's best friend. So, yeah, it must, it must have worked. It must have worked. But yeah, it was a lot of being shouted at and then being very confused when they were like, suddenly, oh, yeah, keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker B Right? So now it started to work. Once you make them the money, they're like, no, you're great. It's perfect.

Speaker C Exactly, exactly. It Turns out all they need is the paycheck to come in.

Speaker B Right. So you didn't like when you went in for your. For that audition, you didn't prepare or any like you, you. I mean, I guess it's kind of hard to prepare for something. You don't know what it's going to be like. You don't have a script in front of you or anything. It was just. It was just your natural confidence.

Speaker C Yeah, I'd spent like, I spent like a month or so because between the audition getting booked and made me going for it, I spent about a month kind of researching the what I thought the questions would be and kind of what I thought that how I thought it would go. And I kind of like I've prepped. I prepped all the answers to the questions I thought would be coming in my head. Mine is the obvious one, which is what's just what's the stage name you have in mind? But yeah, beside that, I didn't have a clue. Like in my head I was just kind of like, what turn up and do my best, I guess. And yeah, it was a really bizarre, bizarre situation. Although the one thing that did help to be fair, in the month or so between, between my audition getting booked, me actually going for it, I matched with a girl on a dating app who had said in her bio that she was in the adult industry. She was as a content creator. But at this point, like, content wasn't really. OnlyFans was, I think, just beginning to get popular. Maybe it was. I hadn't ever heard of any of it at this point, but I'm actually on a dating app and she was obviously on there just to promot. So I'd reached out really politely and just kind of gone, look, I completely understand you wanted to promote your work. I'm not a customer. Please feel free to unmatch me or block me or whatever. I don't want to waste your time. But like I'm trying to get into this industry. I've got an addition booked. Like, any advice would be super cool. Like any kind of like advice would be super useful. And she ended up coming and staying with me for like two weeks. We just filmed loads of OnlyFans content. And again with that, it was very much. It's very amateur stuff. It was. It was like the most amateur sex tapes filmed on the mobile. It was like as low grade as it gets. But I think it was getting her her kind of input of her going, oh, actually, yeah, you're good at this was enough for Me to kind of go, oh, okay, maybe. Maybe I got something to it.

Speaker B Nice. So what kind of questions were you thinking that they were going to be asking? Because I don't know, what's an interview for Porn. For like a porn shoot, right?

Speaker C Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. It was all sorts. A lot about my kind of. My history. What. My. Just my. A lot of the kind of boundary checklist stuff, obviously important stuff there. A lot about my history. Kind of what led to me getting to that point, what my kind of opinions on certain elements of the industry were. What my standpoint was, was towards kind of like how it might affect my personal, how it might affect my family life, like whether there'd be kind of lasting impact on that. And to be honest, a lot of it was. Was more around safeguarding, I'd say, than anything else, which was quite nice.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker C Which is ironic because the studio, I won't name them, but the studio ended up being pretty shit. So all of you safeguarding questions. And then like three months in, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna leave a studio.

Speaker B That's crazy. And so you told them Bilbo Shaggins as a joke.

Speaker C Oh, yeah.

Speaker B And it start.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah. Like when the producer or the. The interviewer was like, do you have a stage name in mind? Now? I'm not a tall guy. I'm not a tall guy at all and I'm a massive nerd. And so, like, as a. As a complete joke, I was like, billboard Shaggins. And he writes it down. As he's writing it down, I'm frantically, like, fucking stopped. I'm trying to snatch the pen out his hands. Like, don't write that down. It's a joke. The producer was like, I love it. And yeah, stuck with it. And almost a decade later, I'm still Bilbo.

Speaker B Yeah, I love it too. Like, you look like Bilbo Shaggins. I love. Totally fits. So then, what was. When you were creating the content with the. The girl who helped you out in the beginning, what was she tagging you as?

Speaker C Like, I think at that point you didn't even have to tag. That was back in the days of only. Yeah, yeah. This is like. This is back early. Early days of. Of like, it's. You have to tag or anything. You just post whatever.

Speaker B Right. Damn, I didn't even think about that.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah. Early days, they didn't have any of any of the kind of parameters or precautions in place. Now it's literally just upload whatever you want.

Speaker B And so now from that first Time auditioning with that studio. And up until now, like, how have you grown as a performer?

Speaker C Oh, God, loads, loads. I think I've invested a lot of my time. I think mostly the actual performance element itself. Obviously, I've just learned the tricks of a trade to make stuff look better for camera, but while still maintaining my e force of I want to get the other person a good time, like my, my. I always. I will always try to make sure that the other person has the best possible experience. Because again, I still stand by the fact that great sex transfer back to camera. I just have to apply the angle turning and all the little tricks and stuff alongside it. Right. From, like, a physical aspect, I've just kind of learned the tropes of how to perform in mainstream and how to perform kind of for the camera to capture it best. But in terms of, like, mindset and stuff, I've spent the last. Oh, God, six, seven, eight years just learning as much as I can, educating myself as much as I can about psychology, about consent, about boundaries, just getting as clued in as humanly possible. Because I feel like it's our responsibility, especially. I mean, it's our responsibility as sexually active adults in general to. To know that stuff in and out, but especially if you're sexually adult, a sexually active adult whose entire online presence is to influence other people around the element of sex.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C Although it's not necessarily our job to be educators, I feel a certain level of responsibility there.

Speaker B I agree. I think anybody that in the public, like a public figure or in the limelight or anyone that has a following, it is your responsibility. It kind of just becomes your responsibility. It's like it comes along with the celebrity. Right. Like with all of the good. You gotta give a little bit back. And the way that you give that back, I noticed, like, through your positivity and you mentioned the psychology and I wanted to ask, like, how does that play a role in sex work and how you approach it? Because that's really, really interesting, the psychology. Knowing how another person wants to be treated. Just knowing how when you walk on set, if it's someone you've never interacted with before, how do you start that conversation to build that chemistry up?

Speaker C Absolutely, absolutely. So from the psychology elements, psychology was one of the things I majored in at uni. So I went off, I studied the kind of the psychology of human sexuality and our ability to. To kind of communicate that stuff and explore that stuff in a safe way. And so it's. It's so integral, especially with the kind of Porn that I do with the kind of dom slab dynamic and the BDSM element, it's so integral to be able to understand a person's kind of comfortability. And I think this, again, this applies to all sex in general, but especially working as a dom or being, being the dominate in a scene or in a session, sometimes you have to be aware of when your play partner or when your, your colleague is reaching their limit before they do. Because a lot of the time people will want to, they won't ne know where their limit is. And it has to be kind of my job or our job as, as the, the, the, the top or the dominant in that, in that session or in that scene to be able to go, oh, actually I can see you're beginning to, you're beginning to show signs that you're reaching your limit. Or I'm going to take a step back here or I'm going to go a little easier. Just to make sure that even though you might feel like you're, you're comfortable to carry on, I can see it's having a physical effect or I can see it's having an emotional effect. And so I'm going to put in steps to make sure I can mitigate that and make it as positive as possible. But it's applicable to all elements of sex, right?

Speaker B And that's really, really interesting because you, like, as an outsider, you think that that stuff is just all written down, right? That's on your sheet list of do's and don'ts. But someone can have a do and then you get into it and you notice, like, like you said, like, okay, the body is not responding the way I think you thought it might or something like that. And so in those moments or instances, it's up to you, like you said, to kind of take the reins and like, okay, maybe we'll change position or maybe you need a water break or. You know what I mean? Something like that, that'. Because I don't think that's the side of it that as viewers and fans we get to see because it just, you know what I mean? It just looks like you're having a great time just fucking straight through. You know, we don't get to see the conversations, we don't get to see the breaks, the cuts and all of that type of stuff. So I'm always really, really interested in that. And a lot of porn stars have studied psychology, so I know that there's like, there's a common ground there. There's a theme there that like, so now, with you saying that, it kind of shed a little bit more light on it for me.

Speaker C Absolutely. I mean, interestingly enough, one of the things I did over the last couple of years was I worked with the nhs, which anyone that's not UK based is. National Health Service is basically all of. All of the hospitals, doctors, GPs, everything within the health sector is all done by the nhs. I recently worked with NHS to create promotional content to be played in every school and youth center in the country. Talking about the differences between porn and reality. Because again, there's, as a viewer, you just see the final product. You don't see the hours of consent forms or the hours of boundary checklists that go into the scene beforehand. You don't see the aftercare parameters or precautions we put in place. You don't see, you don't see any of that stuff. And so a lot of times people see. And again, like, porn is never, it should never be an education tool unless it's specifically made for that purpose. Paul is a fantasy. Porn is a fantasy, it's a fiction, it's a movie. But for people that don't have proper, adequate sexual education, which I think, think in the west, certainly in the uk, we don't have adequate sexual education.

Speaker B Same here.

Speaker C Yeah, it's useless. And so a lot of young people, myself included, we, we turn up. Sex education for me was, this is how you put a condom on. Here's a video of somebody giving birth. STIs are bad, go have fun. And it's like, I've learned nothing from that. And so, like, for me, it's so important to go, okay, kids, myself included, are going to turn to porn as a, as an education tool because there's nothing else. I need to make it my prerogative to make sure that there's a resource that tells them but ain't real, right? Like, you don't go to, don't watch the Fast and Furious to learn how to drive. Like, it's, it's exactly, it's just not, it's not the way to do it. It's a fantasy. And so I did this whole big project where we're just discussing all of the stuff that goes into it behind the scenes, all the fakery, the fact that, like, none of, none of the, the, the storylines are ever real. It's all, it's all manufactured, it's all artificial. And there's so many parameters, at least for any studio that's worth its salt. There's so many parameters in place to make sure that everybody on set is comfortable and happy at all times. And it's like, well, if you're going to be exploring this stuff in your personal life, at least have the same precautions in place. Like, you've got to.

Speaker B Yes. And I think it's so important to stress the conversation part of it. Like, we don't get to see you guys. We know that the pizza guy didn't just show up with his dick in a box and is banging this hot chick. Right? Like, we all know that that's probably not going to happen in our. In our life. And that's really. We don't want it to, but we want that fantasy. Right. But we don't want get to see that. The conversations. And I think that's so important to real life because you need to sit down and talk with the person before you decide to get in bed with them. Even if it's like, listen, we aren't trying to get married. We're not trying to have a family together or anything like that. We just want to bang. But you got to know what each other like and what you don't like, you know what I mean? And get on the same page. And I think that's something that porn does even though we don't get to see it as the viewer, as the fan. I know from working in the industry that is something that porn does better than anyplace else. And I think that's why it actually creates more of a safe space sexually. Besides just all the STD testings and everything. You guys have real conversations where it's like, all right, we got to get down to the nitty gritty. Do you like this? Do you like this position? Can I put your leg back up here? Like, I know it's a lot of. A lot of women who have told me that they had a lot of stars who have told me that, like, I gotta talk to a guy about his balls. Like, I like ball stuff, but he might not like balls. They could be really sensitive. Maybe he doesn't want me back there. Maybe he doesn't want me under there. And it's like, those are conversations that we need to be having in real life.

Speaker C Absolutely. Absolutely. And also just the inclusion of stuff like. Like safe words and aftercare. Like, whenever I bring it up in conversations, like, I. I do one of. One of the workshops I also teach. I do. I've got a lot of weird jobs. One of the other jobs I do is I teach workshops on psychology of sex at universities and at seminars and all kinds of stuff. But the most Popular talk I do is ironically called the Talk. And it's all about commun. But again, the biggest thing I kind of have to stress to people is even if you're not. Fuck it. Even if you're not doing anything kinky or anything, anything BDSM related, it's so important to have safe words and aftercare in place because sex is unpredictable. Okay. Well, we never know if something's going to be triggering, if something is going to bring up kind of suppressed trauma. We never know even if you've been with your partner for 10, 15, 20 years, there might be something there that they're not even aware of that can be triggered like that. And we can't predict if that's going to happen, happen. So it's always better to be prepared for it just in case it does. And so I always say to people, like, even if you are, even if you guys have discussed that you're not going to have sex, you're just having a little fumble and a little whatever, still have those parameters in place because you never know. You never know if something's going to be triggering in the moment. You never know if something's going to be too much. It might be overwhelming, it might just. They might just not be having a good day. And I want to make sure that the person I'm with knows that they can go, oh, pull the plug. I need a bit of support.

Speaker B Yes, that's fine.

Speaker C And they know that they can do that and be safe. They know they can do that and not be judged. And they know they can do that without feeling guilty or embarrassed. I think it's so important to have that kind of in place regardless of what you're doing.

Speaker B That's so awesome. How did you get into the education of it all? Like, did porn kind of push you in that direction?

Speaker C Kind of, yeah. So when I was at uni, my dissertation, my first dissertation was around, around sex work, funnily enough, which took a lot to get approval for. So I had to go the bps, the British Psychological Society, to get ethical approval for it to be published in the journal. Which was. Yeah, when I first went there, I was told by my, my kind of my tutor, like, don't, don't mention that you're in the industry because, like the moment you do, they'll, they cut you off and they won't give you approval. But I, I just thought it, I'm gonna go in there and be my authentic self and if they don't like it, they don't like it. But I got approval and eventually that. That ended up doing pretty well, that studied it. And so I kind of just moved from that. I then moved into. I got approached by somebody that I was at uni with who was a. Like a lecturer assistant who'd asked whether I'd be interested in coming back to my uni as a alumni to. To kind of teach a workshop. And then it carried on and became regular workshops and seminars and then covert hit and I moved it all online. So I have another YouTube channel, Sex Work Psychology, that's all about the psychology element stuff. And then, yeah, it's kind of escalated from there.

Speaker B That's so badass. Do you find that people, like, really open up to you? Are people comfortable with you after they find out that I'm speaking from experience? This is not just written down in a textbook.

Speaker C Oh, God, yeah. It can be. It's. It can be a real blessing. It's lovely being given that kind of level of trust. But it can come at some weird times. Being at pre Drinks for a festival about two years ago with a bunch of people from. From Cornwall that come up to where I live now in Brist for this festival, and there was this. This random dude who I'd never met before, and. And his partner. And within like 30 seconds of us chatting again, we're at pre drinks for a festival. Within about 30 seconds I was chatting. He's taken me to one side and he's like, sobbing about his. About the fact that he suffers from an erectile dysfunction. And obviously I sat there with him for about two hours and we had this really deep conversation. I offered him as much support and help as I could, but afterwards I was like, huh, this happens a lot. Like, you just get caught off guard. And it's lovely that people feel safe and feel comfortable enough to share that stuff with me. And it's always. It always an honor. I always feel privileged that people feel like they can trust me with that. But it's also quite jarring when you're like, bro, it's like 1pm we're off to. Off to Drum and Bass festival. I've just met you. Like, all you've spoken about is your penis for two hours. This is tough. So it can be. It can be a bit of a funny one, but I do love it. It's always humbling to know that people feel comfortable around you, especially strangers.

Speaker B Yeah. And that's awesome because I think it also shows that you are making an impact, a positive impact, because at least they're getting to. To like, dude, dude probably wanted to talk to somebody for years, you know what I mean? But he just couldn't find anybody or felt embarrassed or something like that. So you know that your work is actually making an impact and you get to see it, which is really cool.

Speaker C It's so rewarding. Honestly, it's, it's beautiful. It's. It's my favorite part about any of, any of my jobs across the board is, is the work I do as a, as a, as a dom. Because that is so psychology related, psychology heavy and seeing the effects that I've, I've had on people that the lasting kind of life altering changes that people have made is. It's the most rewarding thing in the world. And I've always said this. If I was ever in a position where I could feasibly do it for free, I would wholeheartedly, I'd happily do it for free. And it helps that it pays bloody well. I like the money, but again like I, I trade the money in the heartbeat if I could because it's, it's the, the knowing that I've had a lasting positive effect on somebody and then you've given somebody the ability to explore and experience their sexual identity. A part of themselves. It's so fundamental to the human experience. Yeah, amazing. I, I wouldn't trade that for the world.

Speaker B That's so awesome. And just from talking to you so far for like what, 30 minutes, you feel so relatable and just down to earth like it feel I can understand why somebody probably just pops up on you while you're walking to get coffee or going to a festival. Like I need to talk to you about some sex stuff real quick. Like I get it because you just seem so personable, so relatable and so honest and positive and non gentle judgy, which I think the world needs more of. Especially when it comes to sex.

Speaker C Oh absolutely, absolutely. I think we've, with regards to sex, it's like we, we almost, we shove anything shameful, anything negative. We seem to shove it all down the same garbage shoe and it all ends up in the same place. And unfortunately, living again, especially in the uk, we're so kind of, we're so taught that sex is not something to speak about. It's so taboo here. It's so. And again it is getting better. But it's, there's such an underlying sense of, of kind of like disgust and repulsion around the subject that I it that also gets shoved down the same garbage chute and they all end up in the same Place that no one ever talked about. And so none of it ever gets unraveled, right? It's all interconnected, and it's like if we just start to pick it apart and we actually address it in.

Speaker B In.

Speaker C In. In kind of compartmentalized sections, we can work through it very easily. It's. It takes so little sometimes to make really big differences in people's lives. They just have to be able to look at it and go, okay, I know. I don't need to be ashamed about that. I need to actually address the it, right? All the difference.

Speaker B It's wild, right? And you mentioned a little while ago when you were teaching and then Covid hit, so everything had to go online. But one of the things that the pandemic definitely did was, like, boost. I feel like everyone became like social media marketers, right? Like, everybody has a brand now. Everybody has some form of their own content, even if you work with major studios. And I think that was something that. That was positive for the industry. It also gave a lot more people a platform. And I was just curious because the way you talk about the way you've seen the growth since that has. Since OnlyFans and everything, like, that has really just taken off, and people are more independent, I think, a little more comfortable setting boundaries, a little more comfortable having some of these conversations because we were in the house for two, three years just having sex and talking about it, right? There wasn't really much else to do. So that growth right there. I love the way that you. That you talked about it in the written interview because you say, like, a lot of things took too long. It did take too long, but because I feel like, because everybody was kind of doing this independent thing, the studios had to kind of come back and say, okay, wait a minute, what do we do to make you guys feel a little bit more comfortable? And you've talked about some of those changes that you've seen.

Speaker C Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah, definitely. Within studios and stuff. I think. I think stuff that again, like, should. Should just be the most. Most kind of fundamental, basic stuff ever. Like. Like boundary checklists and having a talent coordinator on set or having safe places, but the real bread and butter of, like, the most basic sexual interactions. I mean, they were. They were fairly common in studios before, but not as common as. As I'd have liked. And there was a lot of studios that I worked for where they were still kind of. They were absent, and I had to be the one to go, oh, wait, no, we're not starting filming yet. Actually, we're going to sit down and talk about the scene first. Wow. Because like I know the producer has the, the my co stars bounty ch. I know they've got my boundary checklist but the producer is not the one filming with her.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C I have, I need to know what they're into. Like it's all very good, you know, but that's irrelevant. You're not the one that's, that's it. Like I need to know this stuff and I need to be, be kind of intimately aware of, of this person's, this person's boundaries and where this person's kind of their psyche is with us. And so yeah, it was, it was good to see that, that kind of push since, since COVID at least it does seem like things have escalated positively in that sense. And I think think, although I do think it has been a bit of a double dead sword because with it you, you do have, you have a lot more exposure. I think Covid and the, the kind of influx and the, the saturation of the market post post covered with a lot of people kind of finding content creation platforms to, to grow on. And I mean I think with that big boom where all of a sudden everyone was like well I've got no time but I've got a phone and I've got, I've got Internet. So you have this big boom in performers and I think it's, it's got a real positive element to it which is fresh blood is always good and, and publicity is usually good as long as it's positive. Bring attention to the industry humanizes us. So there's all of these positives, there are some negatives which is that there's a lot of people that I think have joined the industry post Covid who perhaps weren't in it for the right reasons. And I think we are slowly those people are getting weeded out because people are oh, you're, you're here just because you want a shag or you're here just because you want this. But it is a shame. I have definitely noticed an influx of perhaps not so positive people post Covid but it does seem like the industry does a pretty good job of catching these people out and making sure that they don't do too much damage whilst they're around. So it has been double edged sword but I have 5 confidence that the industry will sort it out properly.

Speaker B Yeah, they see. I feel like we seem as an industry, we seem to grow and evolve slowly, way slower than I would like but at the same time progress. Like you Said progress still has to be acknowledged and rewarded. You know what I mean? And it's kind of like it goes into, I feel like this whole positivity thing that you have going on where it's like, okay, well, let's still point out out the good and then let's influence. Let's keep that good, let's push that forward. Like you said, I do think there are a lot of people that are getting weeded out or like, I know I've heard people who are on the OnlyFans and for maybe some of the wrong reasons or some shady reasons, they're not even getting a chance with studios. You know what I mean? People aren't really looking to collab with them because it's kind of hard to hide that when your job is to, like, put yourself out there on camera. I think people start to realize that, like you said, it's slow, but they are getting weeded out. And I think it helps keep our industry, like, kind of on a little.

Speaker C Yeah. Oh, for sure. I think as well, we're also interconnected one another. Both. Both the content side and the mainstream stuff. Everyone's so interconnected, it doesn't take long for a bad actor to get kind of called out and for that to spread quite fast. So there is the upside of it, which is that if somebody does act out, it's unfortunate that they have to act out first for them to get kind of called out for it. But if the vibe's awful, if somebody picks up on somebody being a bit dodgy, usually it doesn't take too long for that person to kind of get called out for that behavior, which is always a positive thing.

Speaker B Right. Right now when it comes to the mainstream versus the independent, because I know you, you do a lot of independent content creation, especially your dumb stuff. We got to get into that too. But I was impressed with. I think we talked, we spoke about it in the written interview. Uncaged Digital Playgrounds. Yes.

Speaker C Yeah.

Speaker B Yes, yes. And like you mentioned that it was cool to kind of be in the limelight. How that relationship with Digital Playground start, though. I know you've done work with them.

Speaker C Yeah, I. Funny enough, I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it, but I've just come back offset with. With them for another movie, which I'm. I'm. I'm in quite heavily. I'm very, very excited for.

Speaker B Nice.

Speaker C Yeah. I don't know how much I'm allowed to share about it, so I'll do my best to not get myself into much trouble there. But it was, yeah, fantastic stuff. But with. With Digital Playground, so I worked with. With a couple years ago I'd worked with Becky Mill, Rebecca Goodwin, who's a very popular UK performer, Big on. Very big on Tick Tock and stuff. We started working together quite heavily and her kind of business partner is Dick Bush, who was a former producer and cameraman for Brazzers and Digital Playground. And so I started shooting quite a lot with Becky and with Dick as the producer and I think last January before last. So just over a year ago ago he's actually recommended me to Brazzes and to Danny D as a potential good kind of male. Male performer. And so literally January last year. So just over a year ago I get a call, we'll get a message through from. From Danny and from. From Brazzers offering me some work with them. And it just kind of escalated. So I started shooting with Brazzes and then from Brazil it went on to Digital Playgrounds and I think because they're all so connected because they share. Yeah, there's is very quickly escalated to the point now where, yeah, it's wild. I think I had my. My first Digital Playground movie was probably about a year ago to the date and I was just on set as an extra for it for that initial one. And I remember being on set and looking around at all of the stuff going on and I love the acting side, I love the movie side. I used to do a bit of work as a stuntman. I like being on set. Yeah, yeah, I've done it again. I've done a lot of weird jobs over the years, but I. I've always loved the cinema element. I've always loved the acting side of stuff. And so there I was like on what felt like being on the proper movie set again, except the sex scenes were real and I was like two of my favorite jobs I've done to mesh together. And I remember being on set and again, I was only an extra in that first one, but looking around and being like, I want to. I want to be doing this. This is the part of the industry I want to work up to. Within two months I was on Uncaged and then yeah, several projects since then.

Speaker B Nice. That's awesome. So when it comes to the independent versus some of the mainstream or work that you do with studios, what are some of the differences there?

Speaker C Oh, loads, loads, yeah. So the, the content side of stuff is a lot more intimate. So the content side of stuff. I've always said when it comes to the actual the actual act, the actual porn itself, the sex part, I much prefer content because it is, it's. It's more of a form of, of your own self expression. I've always viewed sex as kind of one of the rawest forms or at least has potential to be one of the worst forms of self expression. You can, can express yourself in a medium of physicality the same way somebody might express themselves from music or through, for artwork, for art. It's expression of self. And I think with content, because you are your own producer, you cameraman, you write the scenes, you have a lot more liberty to kind of make it intimate, to make it personal, to create that chemistry and to capture like real, real chemistry on camera. And so that, that part of content I much prefer. But then the. When it comes down to the mainstream, I love, I love the acting, I love the story, I love the build up, I love the cinema. It's. It feel. I don't know, it feels so kind of exciting for me. I just, I love it. And so there's a real, there's real benefits to both, I think. When I'm on set, I love the filming process, is, is definitely my favorite. And then it gets to the porn part and I'm like, oh, I prefer the content part of porn, but I still love it on set. It's still great on. Yeah, there's, there's really. They each have their own benefits, I'd say.

Speaker B Yeah. I loved reading what you wrote about, like, how you enjoy new sets because as a person who works, works in the industry, you know, like kind of the sex becomes a little bit secondary. Like you look for like little hidden things in the, in the set or on screen. Like, I love some of the studios, like yourself and Elegant angel, because, dude, they just make like it's visually sexy before anybody even walks in. Like, the lighting, the costumes, just the flow of everything is visually stunning. So when I was reading it, I was, yes, somebody else gets it. Like, somebody's like me. It's just about being on the set. And I love how you described. You'll just take a minute, find a corner, sit down and like, figure out, okay, how's this room gonna work in this scene? Or how do I fit in? Like, take me a little bit more through that process.

Speaker C Yeah, so I always just try to kind of immerse myself in whatever the scene is. We used Uncaged as an example with it being a fairly recent one and one that I can talk about me. But with on case, I, I do a lot of martial Arts. I. I do Brazilian Jiu jitsu, and I do mma, and I used to compete in Muay Thai. And so I was back on set, I was like, oh, I'm back. Back in the training gym. I'm back doing the. The stuff I. I love. And so it was very much a case of just kind of immersing myself in. In. In that environment again, immerse myself in that character. How do I, When I. When I step into a new MMA gym, how do I react when I'm in a new location? I've not trained that before. How do I interact with the people that. Where, okay, well, my character knows these people. How do I interact with people that I've trained with before? How do I interact with people that I. I look up to in the gym? How do I look? How do I interact with people that I respect in the gym? And so I kind of just have to immerse myself in the set and go, okay, well, this is. This is where I train. This is the cage that I train in. These are the bags that I hit. And trying to make it feel as natural and comfortable as possible because, like, Obviously it's a minus 4 degree studio in the middle of November, and it's. It's freezing and it's not particularly comfortable at that point. And I don't want to be walking around in a pair of Muay Thai shorts and then gloves. Yeah, like, shivering, like. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, well, I need to put myself in a position where I'm not in minus 4 degree England. I'm in my everyday MMA gym that I train that every day. And so you just have to immerse yourself in that character. And I think it was quite easy with that film in particular, because it was so familiar to me because I'm. I'm used to being in the. In the ring or in a cage or with great stuff. I'm quite used to. And so it was a lot easier with that set. But there's definitely been a couple in the past where I'm like, oh, hell, what am I doing? How am I here?

Speaker B Is there any role that, like, would scare you? Like, any role that you wouldn't want to play, or do you think you would just attack any, Like, I'm gonna just try it.

Speaker C Oh, yeah, you wrote me into a character. I'll give it a go. I'm always.

Speaker B Yeah, that's awesome. Have you thought about writing, like, your. Maybe your own showcase or, like, this script writing at all?

Speaker C So I, Funny enough about Five years ago. Maybe four or five. No, but just, just before COVID Yeah, probably about five years ago. I ran very short, very shortly, ran a production studio called Judas Productions here in Bristol. And so I wrote and produced all the scenes for that. We had about 15, 20 scenes that we, we wrote and produced. And then unfortunately, me and the business partner went separate ways. But whilst we were doing that, yeah, I absolutely loved it. Yeah, it was a great, great fun.

Speaker B That's pretty badass. I feel like there's nothing you haven't done.

Speaker C Yeah, it's. I've crammed a lot in, in the short period of time I've kind of speed ran life.

Speaker B That's so awesome, though. And then you get to share it with all of us, like teaching us and showing us. That's so badass, man.

Speaker C Oh, God. My, my thought is it with, with life in general is kind of just say yes to everything because either A, it's gonna go well, in which case fantastic. B, it will go badly, in which case it'd be a funny story to tell, or C, or go really badly, in which case it'll be a funny story to tell about you. And either way, it's gonna be a laugh. Either way.

Speaker B Like, I love those. Those are like the three bullet points of life. That's all you need right there. So.

Speaker C Yeah, I love it.

Speaker B Yeah, we got it. We have to talk about your dawn work, man. Oh, my God. It's so, like, I personally am a fan of bdsm and it's so intense, yet sensual, if that makes sense at all. And, and, and I feel like it's because, like, you, you, you spoke on earlier how, when it, when you get to do that content, it's a lot more intimate. It's kind of more personal because it's just you and that person and that and all of the chemistry that goes into it. But how did you get into the BDSM lifestyle? Like, was that something that was always. Oh, yeah, okay.

Speaker C Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I, I, yeah, no, from my first. Oh, God. So I, I started exploring sex when I was 14, I think. So I've been sex active since I was, since I was pretty young. And. But I, I started exploring even BDSM at that time. My, my, my relationship with, with sex and my relationship with, with BDSM were completely parallel. I started exploring that stuff from the first time I started having sex basically. And so I, I, and, But I didn't it right. I did my best to educate myself and everything. I had like a sex facts app on My phone from like as, as young as I could have a phone with apps on it. I was probably like 10. Like, so I just researched the. Out of everything because MySpace was like, like, this is something people like. I want to be good at it. How do I get good at it? Well, I'll just educate myself. And so even though I was very, very young, I was pretty clued in for the most part as I, yeah, started exploring BDSM from, from day one. And it kind of as my, my sexual identity develops, my kind of. My relationship with. With kink also developed with it.

Speaker B So what are some of the challenges that you, that you faced or that you face when shooting BDSM versus like a regular gonzo or, or regular like street, just sex. What are some of the differences there and some of the challenges involved with that?

Speaker C So it really depends. With content creation, it's difficult just because the platforms have such a tight grip on what content they do and don't allow. There's so many kind of regulations and restrictions in place, a lot of which absolutely make sense. A lot of which also really don't make sense. Right. And so it's always kind of tiptoeing around that to try to find a way of being able to capture what I want to capture in a way that isn't going to get my account deleted. So that's, that's a pretty big step with the content side of stuff. But we've, we've regards to the mainstream or even with regards to kind of BDSM and kink dynamics in, in general, there's just a lot more, a lot more depth to it. I have to kind of be able to sit with the person a little bit more and really delve into why it is that they're into the stuff they're into. Because it's all very well to say I want you to do X, Y and Z, but a lot of the times that it might not necessarily always be for a positive reason. You know, somebody might be using it as, as a form of self harm or using it as a kind of a self, self deprecating form of causing himself some kind of discomfort. And it's like you need to be able to work out, okay, you're actually really into this because you're really into this, or you're into this because it's a coping mechanism or maybe you're into this for the wrong reasons and I need to avoid doing certain things. And so there's so much more that you just kind of have to take into account when it comes down to the kink stuff that is prevalent with regular sex, but not to the same degree and certainly not with the same kind of element of risk, do you.

Speaker B Find, like, when you're going through all of that and you're kind of putting on the psychology cap and like, let's talk before we get into this. Do you find that like co stars and that they are honest and truthful and get down deep on that level with you Quite often?

Speaker C Yeah. For the most part, or usually. I'll never pry without. Obviously I tend. I try to be as respectful as I can. I'll never pry without it being the right place to do so. And I know where, I know where to draw that line and where not to. Not to encroach on people. I never want to feel like I'm impeding on people's personal kind of personality stuff, but often if I'm. I'm quite perceptive with it. I've been doing it kind of long enough to be quite perceptive around stuff. And so if I feel like maybe there's something there, I'll see if I can tiptoe around the conversation to make them feel comfortable enough to share whatever it is they're comfortable sharing. But if they're not comfortable divulging stuff, obviously I won't push because at the end of the day, the last thing I want is for somebody to go, oh, this makes me uncomfortable, comfortable and me to push and push and push and make it even more uncomfortable. Just go, look, here's a safe space face. If you want to talk about it. Absolutely.

Speaker B I'll.

Speaker C I'll sit and I'll listen and I'll respond in whatever capacity you want me to. You want advice, you want support, you want whatever cool. You want silence cool. Whatever. Like I'll sit and I'll be there in whatever capacity is. Is right for you. But also, if you don't want to go into it, that's fine. That's absolutely fine. It's whatever you're comfortable with.

Speaker B Yeah. Do you have a favorite kink?

Speaker C Oh, I'm gonna give you a really cop out answer.

Speaker B I'm gonna give you a answer.

Speaker C So for me personally, it very much comes down to the person I'm with. With. For me, I. My sexual gratification doesn't necessarily come from any one particular act. It comes from the fact that somebody feels so spade. So safe in the space that I've created that they feel safe and comfortable enough being in such a state of vulnerability. So for me, it's less about the act itself and more about creating that atmosphere and creating that safe space. So it's like for, for example, if I'm with somebody who really fucking loves knife play. Well, use knife play as an example, but really fucking loves knife play play. I will really love doing livelihood with that person. But if I'm with somebody who isn't that into it, cool. I'm not into it at all. Because the idea of doing it with you if you're not into it repulses me. Because my list of kinks, it's about. There's about three kinks that missed me. I feel like I've been hit by everything else. I've managed to dodge a couple but basically everything else hit me square on. And so when it comes down to the things that I'm into, I love everything equally. It's all just the context and the personal and waving. What their preferences are.

Speaker B You sound like the ultimate pleaser. Like I'm here to, to. And I know a lot of times like the guys kind of get a bad rep. It's like you guys are just dick for hires. You know what I mean? Like your picture isn't really taken on the COVID and stuff like that. It's just. Everybody just wants to see your package and your body. You know what I mean? And it's kind of, it's interesting because it flips kind of with society. I feel like that does with women a little bit or kind of flips that on its head. But you seem to kind of like fit. Not fit that mold. But like I love that you're all about pleasing whatever you're into. If I'm into, like I'm into it because you're into it. That's what's going to create the, the great scene. You know what I mean?

Speaker C Absolutely. Again, like relating back to the kind of self expression element. Like if you, if we use it as personified dance instead of sex. So if, can you go, okay, if I'm. If I do salsa and somebody does tango, we might not dance together amazingly. So I'll learn a bit of tango in order to dance better. And we can, we'll meet in the middle and find the place where, where we, we sync up. But if I'm trying to dance one kind of dance and you're dancing a completely different dance over there, we're gonna look like together. Like more importantly, we'll be stepping on each other's toes constantly. We'll be tripping up. It won't be elegant, it won't be Enjoyable. So it's like, yeah, no, I'm, I'm into, I'm into most things. And so it's quite easy for me to go, oh, you're into that too? Amazing. We'll do that. Awesome.

Speaker B Nice. And, dude, we've all seen those scenes where it's like, you guys are out of rhythm. Like, did you even talk before this? Like, did she know she was gonna have to do cowgirl for 20 minutes? Like, stuff like that? And we've all seen that, so that's, it's pretty awesome. And I really, really love that you're all about the education. Like, what, I'm gonna try to learn something because so many people, People just go out and like, my education will be doing it right. It'll be the experience. Like, but you can't, I don't know, let's take anal, for example. You can't just go do anal that first time without reading anything. Like, there's preparation even for the guys too. I don't think that guy, especially just regular, the regular audience, viewers, I don't think they realize how much prep you have to do to do something like anal or, or something like a threesome. You know what I mean? Especially like having your bodies in shape and having a certain look that's appealing to both sexes. Because the men want to see something that is, they want to see the muscles and everything like that too. Of course the women want to, but it's so much prep that the guys go through. And I feel like it's kind of just looked over, just skipped over like, you just stick your dick in this. No, there's lot of learn learning behind it. And I love that you put that first. That's awesome.

Speaker C Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Like, I, I, it took me.

Speaker B Being.

Speaker C At uni a couple of times, studying various things, multiple qualifications, a decade of that point of, of practicing BDSM and, and five or six years of, of, of doing it professionally. Before, I was like, okay, I'm actually professional now. I can, I can gone. I've earned that twice. 11. The ability to, to, to be an expert in the field. And in all honesty, I was probably pretty good expertise probably year prior, years prior to that anyway. But it took getting to a certain point for me to go, okay, now I feel like I've earned, I've earned my stripes. I've earned the ability to go, you can trust me and I can educate people on this. And I think so. So many people, you're totally right. They just jump straight into it. And, and, and for lack Of a better term, kind of just try raw dogging things without ever necessarily, in many cases literally try raw dogging things about any of the parameters in place. And it's like some of the questions I get asked by people, friends, people I meet in the street, even like Q&As after, after doing workshops and seminars and stuff, some of the questions I get asked are just mind blowing. Like I had a girl come up to me fairly recently for about six months ago after a workshop I taught and start kind of mentioning stuff about her relationship. And we're tiptoeing around the subject for a while and eventually I managed to get her to kind of, of really discuss what it was she'd come over to me to discuss and, and she was, she was coming to me because she basically had a really bad kind of bacterial reaction whenever her and her boyfriend did anything. Like a really bad bacterial reaction whenever they did anything to the point where she, she would like develop UTIs. She had BV. She'd get UTIs every time they'd have sex. If anyone into her having a, a bladder infection but a kidney infection. And so it was like, it got really bad and we were sat discussing and eventually I, I managed to figure out that before they played he'd always do butt stuff with her first and then would go from one hole to the other and would double dip. And it's just something as simple as that. That for, for anyone that's been in the industry or, or without sound like an asshole. Anyone that puts two and two together goes well, one of those. Unless you've really fucking really, really really really prepped, one of those has a lot of bacteria in it that really fucking shouldn't be in the other one.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C And it's like it took about half an hour of us discussing for me to go, ah, yeah, maybe don't double dip or go the other way. Start with the first hole, go to the second because that one's going to be a lot harder to. Yeah. So it ends up just being like it's such an easy fix. But again it's just, it's stuff that we take for granted. Being well in the industry or even just being sexually active and aware and being people that are kind of knowledge or truth seekers to any capacity. We're aware of that stuff. But a lot of people just don't. They neglect it so much and it's mind blowing because it seems super basic.

Speaker B It does. Right. When you said that, I'm like, how did you not know that? You go from One to two. You don't go from two to one. Like you go the other way around. But I guess if you've never, if you've never. If no one's ever sat down and told you that because the porn doesn't look that way. Right? It looks like, it looks like you're just going like we don't see the cuts, we don't see the breaks, we don't see the wipe downs. We don't see any of that messed up. Also, nobody likes to talk about enemas for some reason. Like Angel. Like nobody wants to talk about that. Like you got to clean that baby. Like you gotta clean up out there if something's going in there and then gonna be coming out. I mean, because what if he went from your ass to your mouth?

Speaker C Exactly. And even, even with all of the parameters in place, even with douching and enemies and all of a. Still happens, it's just. You can't, you can't, you can't avoid it forever. It's gonna happen. Happen at some point. It's just that. It's just, it's, it's a gamble. So the fact that people don't. They think they can, they can get away with it. And don't get me wrong, I've. I have met a few of the. The mystical creatures that can do anal undouched. And this will be squeaky cleaning. Spotless. They. They do exist. They exist out there. But it's a one in a million. And if it happens once, it doesn't mean it's going to happen again.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C And even then, just because it looks clean doesn't mean I'll put it back in the other place. Like it's just. It seems like common sense to me.

Speaker B It does. It really does. But I get how it wouldn't be like I wouldn't have known if I didn't work in the industry. I probably never even would think about it. Yeah.

Speaker C Yeah. It's mind blowing.

Speaker B Yeah. It's just something that you would just do. All right, let's try a tonight. Like that's, that's kind of what you would do. I might. I feel like the basic person probably looks up like how bad does it hurt? You know what I mean?

Speaker C Yeah, yeah. And it's. There's so much more that goes into it. And again like these. I remember chatting to a former, former out in Prague about five or six years ago. Who had she shot with. With? I'm guessing you know who dread is.

Speaker B Yes, yes.

Speaker C Shot with dreads fairly recently. And she mentioned that her, her build up for shooting with dread was two months of anal prep, of going up gauges of toys. And I'm like, you've prepped for two months before a scene that's going to take two hours. And then you've got people in, in just like in the public that are like, oh yeah, mate, just put it in, it's fine. It's like spitting enthusiasm and it's like, I respect, I respect the enthusiasm but like, good luck.

Speaker B Right, Good luck. What's the craziest prep that you think you've ever had to do?

Speaker C Oh, God. Oh, good question. Good question. Not a lot. As a dude, to be fair. I tend to be. Oh, no, I did have a, I had a weird one at the start of my career. This is tying back into that, that first company I worked for being a bit shit. I had a scene where they wanted me full body shave. They wanted everything shaved, waxed, everything. I'm not a hairy dudes. Like, I'm really not a hairy dude at all. I've fairly light body hair and it's all very fair. Anyway, so like, I'm not a hairy guy, but they wanted me fully like from eyebrows basically down, completely waxed and shaved. And so I did all of that, prepped all of that. Cool, whatever, fantastic. Do the scene. And then literally two days later they go, we've booked you for an El Nasserl scene next week. Make sure you don't shave anything. And I'm like, you've just waxed me. What do you mean?

Speaker B Great.

Speaker C Like, well, so I obviously didn't, couldn't go to that second scene. But I think as a guy, well, I've got the privilege of not having anyone there as much prep as, as, as the girls in the industry do. And I've got a lot, I've got so much respect for the girls in the industry for the amount of stuff that they, they do have to put into the scene behind it. Like, often I get asked like, do I, do I feel regretful about the, the kind of, the gender pay gap within porn and the fact that guys by, by and large less than most of the women do do. No, I don't feel bad about that at all. I turn up on a day and I film, I go get tested two weeks prior, within two weeks and, and I, I meditate the morning off to make sure I'm in the right headspace and I turn up and I perform and then I go home and I get paid. It's a day's work, right? She's prepped for two months. Like take the paycheck you've had, right?

Speaker B Oh my God. Yeah, I mean, I guess dread anally. Yeah, you probably need to do two months worth of prep.

Speaker C Yeah, no, no, I, I, yeah, I, I look at, I look at, I look at appendages in that, in this industry like that and I go, yep, no, take the extra pay. You know, I'm fine with it. I'm chill. I, I, I can walk straight after I shoot. I'm, I'm cool with you being paid more. It's fine. Like I'm not mad about it, right.

Speaker B If I don't need an ice bath or to soak or something. My muscles are so sore. Like, yeah, you take that extra 1500. You got it.

Speaker C Yeah, I'm not mad, I'm not mad.

Speaker B That's cool. That's, that's interesting too because I was going to get into that we, the, the pay wage and the, we kind of did I guess a little bit how the guys are thought of as like dick for hires or whatever like that. But it's cool that you have that perspective and the preparation that the women go like you. Yes, they are.

Speaker C And the lasting damage as well. Like you are putting, not always, but you're, you're putting your body through stuff that is, it's not naturally used to the toys that a lot of, a lot of people are using that are popular or even just some of the dicks in this industry are just ridiculous. So it's like in the nicest possible way. Like my recovery time, if I, if I've been filming like a lunatic, I'll have a bit of friction burn and I'll have a cold shower and some aloe vera gel down there and I'm right as rain after a couple of days. I don't have to deal with, with, with orifices getting torn. I don't have to deal with internal bleeding if something goes wrong. I have to deal with the pregnancy risk. It's like my, my, my day on set starts and finishes on the same day. Like it's, it's the whole different career. Like it's a whole different industry.

Speaker B Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I never really thought that deep into it, but that is, and it's the long lasting effects. Like yes, you can have anal sex but like for some of these like anal queens out here, it's like you're having it two, three times a week. Geek. Yeah, you know what I mean? With like some really, like, like you said, some really large Guys, dude, some guys, I'm like, you had to be a porn star because nobody in there, nobody's letting you stick that thing anywhere near them. That is too long. Way too like too big, too girthy, too long. Like no, you had to be a porn star.

Speaker C 100 and even like, even like the, the damage control post industry, like if I wanted to leave the industry tomorrow, with the exception of the, the content that's out there and the, the cycle of psychological effects of whatever that might be physically, if I left the industry tomorrow, there isn't a hair on my body that wouldn't recover from how it was prior to the industry. Nothing, not a single fiber of my being physically will have been affected by it. I will move on as if it never happened. But again, like if you're shooting, especially if you're, you're shooting loads and loads of anal content or you're shooting with really big people, there's going to be, there's going to be some kind of long term effect there. Even if you can, you can minimize it massively, you can, you can mitigate it, but there's always going to be the risk of there being some kind of long term damage. There's always going to be a risk of that. And so that extra pay, it's, it's an insurance policy for your body going forward. Because there might be things not always, of course. I'm sure the vast majority of people retire and they're fine, but there's always going to be a risk of there being lasting damage there or there being something there that is, is going to be altered from how it was before. Sure. Cool. You've been paid substantially more as a way of making sure that then that's, that's slightly, slightly easier to deal with. I'm okay with that pay gap by all means because again, if I leave tomorrow, I've left tomorrow and I don't have to deal with any kind of physical consequences. But yeah, there's so many more kind of things to be aware of as a woman in this industry.

Speaker B Yes, that is definitely. So I feel like you could write a dissertation or book just on that alone. All right, so I definitely, before I let you go, because I know I've already taken up just about an hour, hour of your time. Thank you again. Gotta talk about the traveling because I never wanted to travel before. Like when I was younger, I think the most I wanted to do was visit like every football stadium. Okay, yeah, that was about it. But now that I'm getting older, dude, I want to, like, see the world. And I feel like a lot of stars say, like, yeah, that that's one of the most amazing perks of the job. Like, I get to travel different countries and have sex with, like, different. Like, they. I've had certain people say, like, sex can vary from country to country. You know what I mean? Like, it's a little different maybe in Prague than it is in Italy. Than it is. Like, I had one star tell me that in Italy, like, black women, they love you. Like, we're almost fetishized because of, like, the curves and the skin complexion is like. So it's really fucking easy to get laid in Italy, whereas it might not be the same way in other places. But I know. I know that you love to travel, and so I just wanted your perspective on that. Like, the sex and travel and how that seems to work brilliantly together to an outsider like me.

Speaker C Oh, God, yeah. Oh, no. So for within the industry, again, one of my favorite things about the job is the fact that I do get to get paid to travel. And it's like, oh, it's fantastic. Waking up in any. Any country knowing that your flight's been paid for is just the best fucking feeling in the world. It's great. I love it. But then the travel for me is super, super, super important. But usually when I go traveling, I just take a hammock and I just sleep rough. And so I've done a lot of the world with just a hammock and no money and no, genuinely, I'm at my happiest in life. And. And I. I'll happily say that on record, I'm at my happiest life on a foreign mountain in a hammock with no money, no plans, no signal, nothing. Just. Just waking up with a beautiful view and good company and. And just knowing that, like, no matter what happens, the world. World War 3 could start and I wouldn't have a clue. I would just be sat on this mountain and. Yeah, I wouldn't have a clue. I love that. Is where. When I'm at my most peaceful. And so whenever I get the opportunity to travel, whether it be for work or whether it be in my personal life. Absolutely. Make the most of it. As much as I can.

Speaker B Dude, it sounds like right there, you might have your showcase. Like your. Your. Your. Your outline for your showcase. Just a guy in a hammock traveling and, like, having sex on mountain with beautiful sceneries and, like, that. I'd watch it.

Speaker C I was gonna say, believe me, hammock sex is not picturesque. Having Sex is, like, the least coordinated, most fumbly thing imaginable. Oh, God. I've fallen out of hammocks over, like, like, 30, 40 foot drops into the sea before because I've got a little bit too enthusiastic of my frosting and forgotten the fact I was dangling over the sea.

Speaker B I could. I just imagine, like, just the hammock just spinning while you're in it. You know what I mean?

Speaker C Oh, 100. It spins. Sometimes it spins and you come back up and one of you is missing. Sometimes it's all out.

Speaker B That's awesome, though. I love that you tried. Well, maybe the hammock will just be in the background.

Speaker C Yeah, well, we'll keep that as a bit of a set piece we can do in the hammock.

Speaker B Yeah, I like it. I like it. What's. What would you say, like, do you have a favorite country that you've been to or someplace that you're like, I got to go back there every year here?

Speaker C Good question. Oh, it depends what for, to be honest. I mean, to be honest, to be fair, I've recently got back from Turkey for the first time, and that was just phenomenal landscapes, amazing wildlife. Like, I. I'm. I'm a massive. I'm a massive animal fan. I love animals. If I wasn't in this industry or whenever, Whenever I eventually do retire, all of my money's gonna go into probably conservation or having land. I just. I'm such a big softy when it comes down to nature. But, yeah, Turkey was fantastic. We just saw. Within the. The few days we were there, we. We saw wild balls. We got tortoises out the street. We saw pine martens. And I grew up in the uk. We have no wildlife here. We've got foxes. I like squirrels, and that's it. There's, like, nothing. Nothing big here at all. So, like, seeing that stuff just in. In the wild out there was just phenomenal. Yeah, I loved it so much.

Speaker B That's so cool. I'm a huge animal lover, too. When I saw that, you were like, hopefully, I'm gonna be having lots of land with. With animals. I went to my girlfriend because I'm trying to convince her to let me, like, let me get as many animals as I possibly can. So right now I have a dog and we have a cat, but, like, dude, I see myself with, like, ducks and chickens, horses and stuff. I think ducks are like, I'm. I'm a huge duck fan right now. They're just the cutest little shits. I love the way they. They walk. They look pigeon toed almost and like when they go super fast and everything. So I could definitely relate to that. And then the simplicity of it, of it all, like that's so awesome.

Speaker C Oh for sure. I feel like it's, it's having something so kind of just as grounding and, and yeah. And simple. It's such a blessing and I think being, being able to, to look after something but where there is unconditional love but also it's a symbiotic relationship. I know that this thing, it's, it's. I provide for it in the sense that I can, I can make sure that its life is amazing. And in return it, it. Whatever emotions it feels towards me, it does so unconditionally. And that's a really nice. There's no, there's no agenda there, there's no, it's nothing. It's. It's whatever it's feeling so it's on its sleeve and it's just. I know. I love that I've got a real, A real passion for. Yeah. Just looking after things and, and yeah. Raising animals was definitely my, my eventual end goal is. Yeah. Buy a nice plot of land and just have a whole menagerie.

Speaker B Nice. That'll be awesome. And I definitely understand what you're saying too because it's like whenever I leave, I can leave the house for two hours and when I come back, my dog, it's like he hasn't seen me in two years and it's the most awesome feeling. It's that unconditional love. He can't. Like he's still, he's only two so he's still kind of in those puppy phases. Like energy out the ass, man. But like he's a red nosed pitbull, so not a small dog. But he'll just jump right up into my arms like, like a baby. Or like don't let me sit down. Like he's laying on me right now. If I'm sitting, he's like, oh, obviously you're a pillow now. You know what I mean?

Speaker C So.

Speaker B And it's just with that unconditional love and that excitement every single time I walk out and come back in, I'm like, yes, that is what it's all about. I want to feel that forever. Like he's never upset with me. I love it.

Speaker C Absolutely. I love it also. It's just so nice. It's so. I think it's so nice to feel kind of self sufficient. I'd like to have chickens I can get eggs from. I'D like to have a cow I get milk from. I just. Yeah, it'd be really nice just to kind of go. Actually, the government buy my food at Tesco, so they've put the price up 30 times this month.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C You know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna chill and have my own stuff, make my own food, have my own land, just attach more of it. And as much as my life is, is centered around being online and having an online presence, I do love that element that is a big part of my identity. It's also really nice to have a little place just to run away to where you can shut all the world out and just go, cool. I'm gonna sit here with my dogs and my chickens and whatever around the animals and just. Yeah, just, just imagine that I'm. I'm wherever I am in the world now.

Speaker B When you, when you imagine yourself there or when you do these things, like, let's say you get to go anywhere in the world and you get to take like the most peaceful place you want, however you envision it. Right. And there's three necessities. What are your three necessities that you gotta have with you?

Speaker C Oh, good question. Okay, so hammock not included. Hammock number one.

Speaker B Hammock's already there. Hammock is definitely already there.

Speaker C Okay, headphones for music. So I, I've always got music playing. I listen to every genre imaginable. It's another massive cop out answer. But I love music. I think as long as it inspires emotion, it's good, good music. So definitely something to listen to. Probably. So. Oh, God. Hard question. Music.

Speaker B My.

Speaker C Probably my camera or my drone. Just because I like to capture where I am. I like to. To be able to look back at it and go, this is, this is what it was I was experiencing. And then probably, oh, hard question. Good company. Good company.

Speaker B Nice.

Speaker C Yeah, yeah, nice.

Speaker B Those are three great answers.

Speaker C Yeah, no, definitely, Definitely a good company. I think I can be. I can be happy just about anyway in good company.

Speaker B Yeah. What's. What's one thing that you think all or that you want all of your fans to know about you?

Speaker C The. Oh, good question. Tough question. Okay, yeah, just, I. I am and will always be my complete, unadulterated self. And. But if. Yeah, if. If you enjoy my content, if you enjoy the way I am online, please feel free to come say hi if you see me, because I'm the exact same in person. Obviously don't apply that to all sex workers. Please do not approach sex Workers in the street, unless they've specifically told you they're okay with it. This is not. I don't want people to quote me on that, but if you see me in person, like, feel free to come say hi. I'm absolutely myself. I. I'll always do my best to just be my most authentic, organic self. If people hate that, so be it. I'd much rather be hated for being me than be liked for not being me.

Speaker B Right. There you go. I love it. I love it. Do you have, like, a favorite fan interaction moment? Oh, God.

Speaker C Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've got a very awkward one, but I think to this day, probably my favorite, just because it was. It was painfully uncomfortable, so I'd feel good. Few years ago now, I'd matched with a girl on Tinder, and she was back, staying, staying at her family house from uni, but she was like, my folks are out. I'm back from uni. Like, let's. Let's hang out. And so I went round classic Netflix and chill kind of day. It was, it was just. It was a hookup. Like, I'm there, we're chatting with chilling, and then her parents come home abruptly, and her parents go, oh, do you want some food? And I was like, I'm a poor uni student at this point. I was like, yeah, cool. I'll have a free meal. I'll never say no to that. And so I'm kind of just chilling. It's a little bit awkward. And I just bought my, My last car. I just bought it at the time. And the, the dad goes, oh, we've got a. We've got a nice car out there. Do you mind if we go have a look at it? So me being, like, all cocky about my new vehicle, I'm like, yeah, of course. Go look at my new car. So we go outside and he looks at me and he's. He goes, my wife doesn't know that I watch porn. She'd kill. It gets so much worse. I promise, you get so much worse. Because she'd kill me if she found out. I recognize you from. And he quoted a company. Do I say, okay, I'll say, this could be from. From Pascal's company, which is a particularly rough, particularly rough company. And he's like, I watched your content on there. Like, I've seen you. I know what you do. Obviously, I, I. It's a bit uncomfortable that you're obviously rounded to see my daughter, but it's fine. It's cool. Just please don't bring it up. In there because my wife doesn't know, but I watch it and she'd go ballistic if she found out. Me, cool, fine, whatever. Absolutely fine. I respect that. Get back inside. About five minutes later, the mom goes, do you mind coming give me a hand cutting some onions? You see where she going? You can see. Couldn't make it up. Like, yep. So I go in there, I'm cutting onions, kind of awkward silence. And she looks around and goes, listen, my husband doesn't know that I watch porn. And I'm there like. And there, like almost verbatim. Recognized me from the same company, which means they're into the same. They'd probably have great sex if it just communicated. I felt like just banging their heads together. And so, like, I'm there, like, cool, okay, I won't mention it. And so we're sitting there, we're eating food, and the dad goes, so, what do you do for a living, mate? And I go, I'm a personal trainer. Which it was true. I did also work as a PT at the time. So I'm a personal trainer. And both, Both the parents look at me like, yeah, you got this. Yeah, good one. I remember leaving and when I was. When I was on the way out, the girl who I'd go around to meet, I'd gone, that was great. Neither of my parents knew. I looked her in the eyes and I went, listen, I'd made both your parents come before I made you come today. Like, this is not okay.

Speaker B That's straight out of a movie.

Speaker C Literally, like, the whole time I was just there. Like, I wish I had a witness for this. I wish I like, so they're like, do I record this situation? Like, no one's gonna believe me. It was so. I know the funniest part was it definitely helped contribute to the. The age old question of whether kinks are hereditary. All I'm saying is she's definitely, definitely into the same as their parents.

Speaker B And, you know, they're not talking about it.

Speaker C No, no, no. Never. Like. Well, I remember the sitting at the table and like, looking at these two, these two, like 40, 50 year old people and just being like, you guys. You guys would have great sex if you just spoke like the conversation, for Christ's sake.

Speaker B Oh, my God. That's crazy.

Speaker C Yeah, it was painful. Painful to witness. It's painful though. It is.

Speaker B It is. I would almost feel like it's my duty to tell you guys that you're both like. Because you can't be mad now, right?

Speaker C Yeah. Yeah. I was so to be Fair. I was so tempted to have like a mouthful of roast potatoes just like you both. Watch my porn. Bye.

Speaker B Oh, man. Dude. Now I really want to know what happened. Like, did they ever talk about or did they.

Speaker C I can't imagine they've spoken about it at all.

Speaker B Wasted opportunities.

Speaker C I know they're probably having piss poor missionary over, lights off as we speak.

Speaker B It makes me wonder how many, like, how many couples are going through that right now.

Speaker C Hell no. Oh, loads, loads, loads, loads. Oh, tons. Yeah, yeah. Like with. With the dumb work I do, I. I interact with so many people who are incredibly, incredibly sexually interested. People who just. They just don't have any outlet to explore it with because there is that embarrassment there or there's that uncomfortability there. And it's crazy of people who are like super, super kinky and quite often really educated and aware, but they just lack the communication skills. Yeah. To be able to actually sit and have a conversation.

Speaker B Yeah.

Speaker C The only person holding you back is you. You could be doing so well.

Speaker B Right. Right. You could be having the most amazing sex of your life.

Speaker C Literally. It's like the only, only thing, the only step you need to take, the only thing in the way of you having the best sex life of your dreams is a fucking conversation. Talk, Sit and talk. It's mind blowing.

Speaker B Yeah. If any. If you take away anything, take that away from this conversation. Have a conversation. Just talk about. You'd be surprised how many other people are like into spanking too, or want to try some whips and chains or even like tickling. You'd be surprised how many people get turned on by like tickling in. In certain areas. You know what I mean? I watched one of your recent. I think it was tickling tees.

Speaker C Yeah.

Speaker B Yeah, I saw that. And I was like, this is what I'm like, more people are into this. They just don't know. Like, how do you. I guess you feel embarrassed going up and telling someone. Like, I like to be tickled a little bit, but I'm like, why? Why would that be embarrassing? Like, let's try it.

Speaker C Oh, God. I've had some. I've had some wild, wild confessions for things that people are into. And it's fantastic. I love it. Like, I'll share a funny one. The most interesting one I've ever had was somebody approached me on Instagram and was like, I've got a real kink for the idea of my feet being chopped off and eaten. Like, where's that come from? And like, just, just the psychology of trying to work out like where that came from from was, was mind blowing. Like where do you even start with something like that?

Speaker B Right?

Speaker C It's. Yeah, it's crazy. And I, I think I managed to work it out. I think between us we managed to work it out but it took a lot, it took a lot to, to try to figure it out. And I love that mental puzzle of going, here's the pieces. How do they slot together? Because there's an image there. You know, when the puzzle, there's always an image there. There might be a few pieces missing, but there is an image and you can, you can put those pieces together in the right order. Order on the note of like people like coming out with crazy stuff. I remember I was at, do you know Boomtown festival, is a huge festival in the uk. It's one of our biggest ones. But I was at the festival doing, doing workshops and one of the workshops I did was, was the talk, the one that I mentioned earlier. And so I'm at this, this big festival tent. There's about maybe 60. So maybe like 90 odd people. Yeah, probably 60 or 90 people. All complete strangers, all festival goers sitting there. And part of the workshop was that I, I essentially said to people, people like, obviously having those discussions with your partner might be intimidating, it might be intense, but you're in a, a field with120,000 people. The person sat next to you you are never going to see again. So I got the group to separate into groups of strangers and to sit and go through all their kinks and their boundary checklist with strangers and just over. It became a part of their vocabulary. So it became a script that they were used to saying. And at the end of it I was like, well obviously you've just sat and discussed your deepest darkest fantasies with a stranger. Change. It should be easier with your partner. But the, the funniest part of that workshop was I went around and I sat with each group just to listen to kind of what people were saying. And one of the groups I went over to was like, it was, it was a couple of, couple of like kind of generic festival looking people and then this, this like really kind of very stereotypical kind of chavy road man, very hood, like tracksuit bottoms, hood up like very. And I was like chatting like this and like although a very lads lads kind of guy and I when he first came in and I was like, oh, I reckon he's here to heckle as my first response. And shame on me for judging a book by its cover. Absolutely. I'LL take accountability for that. But my first response was he's, he's wearing a balaclava, like he's here to heckle, right? And so I go around the group and I go over to the group where he is near this point, he's taking his head down, his balaclava off, but he's still like a little dressed up. And still I, I thought he wouldn't take it necessarily as seriously as it did. And we'll go around the group, ask some color people people what, what was, what was the kind of revelations. And it gets to him. And in real time, I see this guy comes to terms with the fact that he's a cuck. And I watch it happen in real. Literally like we're watching this through sitting there. He's like, well, I don't really know what I'm into. Like, although I'm pretty, pretty normal, to be honest. I'm pretty. I mean, I just kind of like, I wouldn't mind the idea of my girlfriend getting in front of me actually. And I'm just there like, wow, there we go. This is, this is it. This is breaking. Yeah, like this, this dude. I would have never expected it. And again, that's on me for. That's, that's my own issue for judging a book by its cover. But I'm sure he probably didn't expect. He certainly didn't expect when he woke up that morning in the field, but he'd be sat in some tent with like 90 strangers telling him that he wants, he wants to watch his girlfriend get in front of him. And it was just, it was mind blowing.

Speaker B That's crazy. I really like that, that technique, that strategy though, because like you said, if you can say it to strengthen strangers, you, you like the, the mindset. Ideally it would be like that you would. It should be a lot easier with your, with your partners, right? I guess maybe it's not because you. The fear of being judged by someone you actually care about, someone you don't want to see you in a weird way. Because I guess the worst fear is like, let's say that dude goes and tell his girlfriend and she's like, that's disgusting. Ew, that's gross. I would never know. We're breaking up now. Fuck you. I can't believe you would even say that to me. That's the fear, right? Well, with strangers, you don't really give a shit what they're going to say or think. Like you said, I'm never going to see you again, probably.

Speaker C Oh, for sure, for sure. And so, yeah, the rest of the workshops are centered around how do you then create a safe enough space with your partner where you remove personal attachment, you remove the ability to be offended or the ability to take something personally so that you just talk objectively, you talk about what you as an individual are into without allowing your own personal feelings to get involved with one another's kind of things. And so a lot of the workshop was around kind of how to then create that safe space to have that conversation with your partner. But you, you're totally right. It's, it's an interesting one. But it can be the fear of being judged by the person that most of us probably feel like is the last person that will judge us is so intense that we just avoid the conversation in general.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C They like, if we just have the chat, nine times out of 10, they're probably going to be on board.

Speaker B Right.

Speaker C I don't think I've ever had somebody go, oh, fuck it. Hell, Jesus. You're like, fuck me and be, be repulsed by it. I'm into some pretty extreme.

Speaker B That's true though. Like thinking, thinking back on it, it's like, how often does that worst fear come to life, right? Like, how often do you get that judgment? I feel like you're right nine times out of ten. Even if they're like, I don't know about that, but let's try it.

Speaker C Oh, for sure. I use, I use a. She's gonna hate me for saying this. I'll use. Use a personal example of my own relationship. My partner, partner had seen last year. She's gonna hate me for this. But she'd seen last year I'd done a, a Father Christmas, a Christmas themed live sex show, Daddy Kingsmas rather than Father Christmas. And so I'd done this, this live show and there's like photos up on my social media of me and this like Santa costume. And I remember her seeing it and go, oh, that's actually. Okay. Interesting. And then she instantly got a little bit withdrawn and was like, don't judge me. And I'm like, oh, no. Like older caregiver who brings you gifts and loves you unconditionally. Like, I get it. Like, yeah, I literally turned up our house dressed as fucking Santa abruptly. And yeah, she had a great time, but awesome. Yeah, yeah, it's the little things like that. Like, it's like, yeah, okay, it might not if you'd asked me, like, is dressing up as Santa a king of mine? Absolutely not. Of course it isn't. But if you're really into it. I'll get off on the fact that you're really into it. Like, I don't give a fuck. It's great. Great. I've even got somewhere down there with a big woolen beard. It's like, it's fantastic. I go all out. I don't care. Just because it's not my kink doesn't mean I won't enjoy doing it.

Speaker B Right. Because my cake is. Is watching you get, like, be pleased. That's mine. So. Yeah, exactly. That's so badass. I think the Santa story, that's the perfect place for us to end it.

Speaker C Yeah.

Speaker B Because otherwise, dude, we'll just keep going on. Like, I could have. I could talk to you. I feel like for the next three hours, man.

Speaker C Oh, there's so much more to talk about. To be fair. There's always. Well, there's always more.

Speaker B Well, that's good because that means we get that can do another podcast and I'll be on the lookout for when that digital playground. I don't know what movie it is, but I know that I'll know it. I feel like I'll know it when I see it.

Speaker C Absolutely. I'll put it this way. There are two. Two movie scripts that are. That I would feel are perfectly written for me. One of them was the MMA one uncaged, and this is the other. So if you'd approached me a year ago before I done either and gone, what's two movies that you would fucking love to work on? I'd have basically given you the script of these two films. And so.

Speaker B Okay.

Speaker C You'll definitely know when you see it. You'll definitely know when you see it.

Speaker B Yeah. Well, when it drops, maybe we'll do, like, we can have you back on and we can just do a podcast all about that movie.

Speaker C I'd love that. No, I really love that.

Speaker B Sweet. That's awesome. Well, thank you again for your time. I feel like I learned so much. I always feel like that when I'm out of, like, when I. When I get to talk to you guys, because just your perspective and the energy and is always great. But, like, with you, I feel like you're. You're a real educator. Like, I actually learned a whole lot of stuff today.

Speaker C I'm really glad. Well, I'm always, always happy to contribute in whatever sense I can.

Speaker B Yes. That's awesome. And when I finally do get to travel, I promise you I'm going to take a hammock and I'm going to sleep outside somewhere.

Speaker C Please do Please do.

Speaker B Well, I will. And I'll take a picture and send that shit to you. Like, look, I did it.

Speaker C Honestly, it's the most liberating feeling in the world. You'll love it.

Speaker B Yeah, I got it. I have to. I really want to. But thank you so much for your time today and, you know, talking to us and it's been amazing. I absolute, absolutely love, like, your personality is so dope. I know our fans are gonna love it.

Speaker C Thank you so much for having me. I look forward to hearing more.

Speaker A Thanks for listening to the Adult Empire podcast and thanks to Bilbo Shaggins. Don't forget to subscribe and rate. Follow us on social media. And of course, make sure to visit adultempire.com for all of your porn needs, including a full range of streaming videos, adult DVDs, sex toys, and more.

Bilbo Shaggins

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